Free Kick count?

[mjp]

So - it was 28 (us) and 19 (Lions).

There is a LOT of sooking going on by the Lions and their fans - but the most controversial decisions (imo) were:

1/. Bont goal being over-ruled. Clearly a wrong decision by those clowns at the ARC and another clear misuse of the system...it should be used for GOAL LINE REVIEWS, not trying to assess whether or not a fingernail touched the ball 40m from goal.

2/. The 'deliberate' now apparently insufficient intent decision vs Caleb. I actually don't mind them paying this but if this is 'deliberate', surely almost every kick that goes oob without being touched is pretty close to deliberate ('cos it was a skill error and any kick that misses a target is ALSO a skill error).

So - what's the truth? Were the Lions harshly penalised or was it a pretty fairly adjudicated game?

[jeemak]

There was the Dale holding the ball that wasn't paid which should have been, though there was also a Zorko too high on Caleb that stood out.

Plus there were a few times McInerny threw the ball, alongside Coleman doing the same.

I tend to notice those not paid to us, more so than those not paid to them. Dunno why!

[bulldogtragic]

There was the Dale holding the ball that wasn't paid which should have been, though there was also a Zorko too high on Caleb that stood out.

Plus there were a few times McInerny threw the ball, alongside Coleman doing the same.

I tend to notice those not paid to us, more so than those not paid to them. Dunno why!

There was a horrible non HTB on Coleman in the last too. One to start the game on him too.

But that’s footy. Sometimes you’re the windscreen, sometimes you’re the fly. I don’t think a differential of 9 is a big number. The ARC overturn was worth 6+ frees.

[comrade]

The ruck free at the end was technical and while probably there, regularly doesn't get paid so can understand it causing frustration. What I can't understand is the bleating that it cost the Lions the game.

It was given in the middle of the ground, not the goal square. Lions defenders still had an opportunity to set up and kill it or win it back and rebound to set up a win. They did neither and coughed up a point through some excellent contested work from our guys.

[Hotdog60]

Can't the football world just credit us for putting our noses over the ball first and are more likely to draw a free kick and also could it possibly be that our tackling technique when our tackles stick are of a high quality that also warrants paying the free kick.

Brisbane could have quite easily won that game if they kicked better in the dying stages so the football world needs to pull their heads in on us getting more free kicks than anyone else and may be look at the play in general.

I wonder how the umpiring division is feeling about them being accused of bias or not doing their job.

[bulldogtragic]

The ruck free at the end was technical and while probably there, regularly doesn't get paid so can understand it causing frustration. What I can't understand is the bleating that it cost the Lions the game.

It was given in the middle of the ground, not the goal square. Lions defenders still had an opportunity to set up and kill it or win it back and rebound to set up a win. They did neither and coughed up a point through some excellent contested work from our guys.

Same as Essendon last week. It’s easier to blame umpires for your failings rather than accept reality and take responsibility to improve next year. Some people just like to deflect their own teams responsibility for the loss, as you highlight in the last 90 seconds.

[Rocco Jones]

I don't get why AFL fans expect free kick count to be even. Like some sort of entitlement. I follow the NBA strongly and don't ever feel a 'why isn't the foul count even?'.

Contrary to that even, being able to draw a foul is recognised as a positive attribute in the NBA.

[Mofra]

Given the free kick count in round 23 and the timekeeper error in the brisbane game that robbed us of a top four spot I couldn't care less.

[comrade]

I don't get why AFL fans expect free kick count to be even. Like some sort of entitlement. I follow the NBA strongly and don't ever feel a 'why isn't the foul count even?'.

Contrary to that even, being able to draw a foul is recognised as a positive attribute in the NBA.

As well as being disciplined and staying out of foul trouble.

Same as the NFL, the ability to not give penalties and force sides to panic and give away penalties is actually lauded.

[dog town]

There is a pretty decent Twitter account operated by an umpire (supposedly) who goes through and rates each contentious decision as right or wrong. It’s called Has-the-umpire-made-a-bad-decision if anyone wants a look. Not much room for grey area or nuance in the way they are listed but pretty interesting. Lists them quarter by quarter, I would post but I can’t figure out how to put them up.

Wrong calls on the night were 7-7 from what I can see in the ratings. Interestingly the Essendon game has lots of missed ones for us that the account thought we should have got.

I find the inconsistency with the way umpires are judged frustrating. Generally ppl can’t decide if they want them to adjudicate to the rules or on “feel”. Kane Cornes on the footy show this morning is a prime example.

[Go_Dogs]

Like most games it was fairly adjudicated with a few each way that were paid when they shouldn’t have been, or were missed. Not too worried about it - we get to good spots and use good technique.

[Rocco Jones]

As well as being disciplined and staying out of foul trouble.

Same as the NFL, the ability to not give penalties and force sides to panic and give away penalties is actually lauded.

Yep, 100%.

[The Pie Man]

The Vandermeer HTB stunned me, zero prior.

Caleb was very lucky not to get pinged in the centre of the ground, as was Dale.

Thought the game overall was evenly adjudicated.

[EasternWest]

The ruck free at the end was technical and while probably there, regularly doesn't get paid so can understand it causing frustration.

I think this one was a cut and dry free kick. McInerney had eyes only for English and straight up blocked him. One of the clearest frees of the day.

[Rocco Jones]

There is a pretty decent Twitter account operated by an umpire (supposedly) who goes through and rates each contentious decision as right or wrong. It’s called Has-the-umpire-made-a-bad-decision if anyone wants a look. Not much room for grey area or nuance in the way they are listed but pretty interesting. Lists them quarter by quarter, I would post but I can’t figure out how to put them up.

Wrong calls on the night were 7-7 from what I can see in the ratings. Interestingly the Essendon game has lots of missed ones for us that the account thought we should have got.

I find the inconsistency with the way umpires are judged frustrating. Generally ppl can’t decide if they want them to adjudicate to the rules or on “feel”. Kane Cornes on the footy show this morning is a prime example.

Footy media just loves going the negative narrative. I'll go NBA example. Imagine Cody was a 20 yo NBA player hitting 40 points in a playoff. No way the narrative is all about officiating and them being a cheat. I think given the choice between celebrating greatness or something negative, AFL media will nearly always go with the latter.

[comrade]

I think this one was a cut and dry free kick. McInerney had eyes only for English and straight up blocked him. One of the clearest frees of the day.

It probably was but ruck infringements are a lottery and that one gets let go often. Says a bit about how English fought back in the second half that he spooked McInerney into panicking.

[dog town]

Footy media just loves going the negative narrative. I'll go NBA example. Imagine Cody was a 20 yo NBA player hitting 40 points in a playoff. No way the narrative is all about officiating and them being a cheat. I think given the choice between celebrating greatness or something negative, AFL media will nearly always go with the latter.
It’s actually exhausting watching them mould these narratives every week.

[jazzadogs]

It probably was but ruck infringements are a lottery and that one gets let go often. Says a bit about how English fought back in the second half that he spooked McInerney into panicking.

I think that is the one that doesn't get let go though - if one ruckman runs into the other and the ball bounces behind them without being touched, it is 95% paid as a free. Holding and grappling in the ruck are very inconsistent

[Mantis]

It probably was but ruck infringements are a lottery and that one gets let go often. Says a bit about how English fought back in the second half that he spooked McInerney into panicking.

You can’t cross the line to take the run from your opponent.. it’s a free every day of the week.

[bulldogtragic]

You can’t cross the line to take the run from your opponent.. it’s a free every day of the week.

I just watched it again minutes ago. That’s an obvious free that should be paid every day of week as you say. No grey in it whatsoever.

[MrMahatma]

There was a bit of a “free kick Hawthorn” thing on social back 7-8 years ago.

What do people remember now? 3 peat.

There was no late soft free for us in front of goal. We won the match. It was close and losing a big final like that sucks… but you know what? They lost. We won. That’s what will be in the history books.

Great match. Great win. End of.

[Happy Days]

Normies love to chat free kicks because it's the most obvious and apparent thing in a game, that requires no real thought or consideration, and utterly no intellectualising. It's the footy equivalent of talking about the weather.

[SonofScray]

Wieners attribution theory is a good model for considering the pissing and moaning around umpires. We all do it, to some degree but the unhinged narrative of conspiracy in our favour from 2015 onwards is partly humorous and partly infuriating.

Media can’t help but put the negative spin on things. The AFL dog whistled the malakas having a sook to appease the Sydney administration post 2016. I hope this disrespect is not lost on anyone and we can just roll on and rub the league’s faces in it all. I for one am going to be absolutely, unbearably, obnoxious if we can find 2 more wins this season.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I just watched it again minutes ago. That’s an obvious free that should be paid every day of week as you say. No grey in it whatsoever.

Yeah after getting loads of people I know commenting on their facebook pages today about how they were robbed.. Even got a message from an acquaintance who was also at the game at half time telling me 'umps keeping you guys in it' To which I told him to give his balls a tug. He replied again citing Lachie Neale getting pinged HTB as an example of shocking calls... I said what's more shocking is you don't seem to understand you can't drag a ball back in.'

I just finished watching the game again and really kept an eye on the calls, and I was more taken by the non calls and how critical some of the calls against us were. The deliberate out of bounds by Caleb, that could've cost us the game. There is no way that's insufficient intent. And don't get me started on the comical Goal Review system...

[bornadog]

There was a free kick to Brisbane in the first quarter against Gardner for high contact in a one on one dual. There was no high contact, but I can't blame the umpire either as I saw it in slomo, whereas in real time maybe it looked that way. Brisbane kicked that one, it just works both ways.

[westdog54]

Yeah after getting loads of people I know commenting on their facebook pages today about how they were robbed.. Even got a message from an acquaintance who was also at the game at half time telling me 'umps keeping you guys in it' To which I told him to give his balls a tug. He replied again citing Lachie Neale getting pinged HTB as an example of shocking calls... I said what's more shocking is you don't seem to understand you can't drag a ball back in.'

I just finished watching the game again and really kept an eye on the calls, and I was more taken by the non calls and how critical some of the calls against us were. The deliberate out of bounds by Caleb, that could've cost us the game. There is no way that's insufficient intent. And don't get me started on the comical Goal Review system...

That HTB against Neale was the easiest decision of the night. Dragged back in then didn't dispose of it.

[EasternWest]

It probably was but ruck infringements are a lottery and that one gets let go often. Says a bit about how English fought back in the second half that he spooked McInerney into panicking.

Don't disagree with the gist of what you're saying only that one Milton Dammers looked straight at Tim then blocked him. That's a lay down misere.

The one I thought was bullshit that went our way was when Milton was called for a throw. I never thought he had posession and the ball was just bobbing around.

[soupman]

Thought the umpiring was fine. There were a few errors, some our way, some against, but I didn't think they were overly influential.

The ones people seem to be angry about were the McInerney one at the end (which was clearly correct), the Bont mark over McInerney (which was fine), and the Keath reversal where he went to ground (didn't get a great look at it but looked reasonable). Love that the some of the media are arguing that free kicks that are there (like the first example) shouldn't be called late in games, I mean what???

Bizarrely their double up of deliberate into Clug getting done for holding the ball just before halftime (?) doesn't get mentioned.

Thought the Dale one had just enough grey area that I can understand the no free call, but probably should've been.

Daniel one was kind of bullshit, but I'm also kind of cool with it. I mean if you swing your foot at a mid air footy you are kind of signing up for the lottery anyway and deserve whatever you get.

Btw just to round off his year of truly shithouse takes Dave Hughes is mostly upset about Duryea not getting pinged for deliberate in the last 15 seconds. Stick to masked singer mate.

[merantau]

There was a free kick to Brisbane in the first quarter against Gardner for high contact in a one on one dual. There was no high contact, but I can't blame the umpire either as I saw it in slomo, whereas in real time maybe it looked that way. Brisbane kicked that one, it just works both ways.

That one stood out for me. The umpire called it "front on contact". Gardner made no contact with the front of Lincoln McCarthy. By the time contact was made McCarthy had turned his body so the contact was side on. Goal to Brisbane.

Also the mark paid to Bont. Ok, he wasn't the man in front but Schache was held with arms around his chest that prevented him from contesting- a clear free kick.

We won. End of story. If your aunt had whiskers, she'd be your uncle.

[azabob]

Btw just to round off his year of truly shithouse takes Dave Hughes is mostly upset about Duryea not getting pinged for deliberate in the last 15 seconds. Stick to masked singer mate.

You know what “Hughesy” GGF. This guy use to barrack for the dogs then changed teams to Carlton. How’s that working out for you?

[EasternWest]

You know what “Hughesy” GGF. This guy use to barrack for the dogs then changed teams to Carlton. How’s that working out for you?

Plus he's gone off the deep end socially. Totally forgotten that he was a less than working class rat and not a member of the Judd born to rule society.

Anyway sorry for derailment back on track.

We win, sucks to be them. Their tears are delicious.

[The Pie Man]

I was VERY nervous the Duryea masterpiece was going to be pinged, thankfully the umpire must’ve had a similar line of vision that the boundary line camera had, where it clearly shows Cameron knocking the ball onto Doc’s legs as he was sprinting.

Noticed Julian De Stoop called out Hughes on this take.

[merantau]

Plus he's gone off the deep end socially. Totally forgotten that he was a less than working class rat and not a member of the Judd born to rule society.

Anyway sorry for derailment back on track.

We win, sucks to be them. Their tears are delicious.

He is beneath contempt. What sort of adult changes football teams? That's so weak.

[bulldogtragic]

Plus he's gone off the deep end socially. Totally forgotten that he was a less than working class rat and not a member of the Judd born to rule society.

Anyway sorry for derailment back on track.

We win, sucks to be them. Their tears are delicious.

I went to a few of his early gigs and he was *!*!*!*!ing hilarious. Admittedly I pay less attention, but I haven’t heard anything remotely funny out of him in about two decades. Just another waste of breath and energy from him.

[bulldogtragic]

Zorko two OOF in the last 10 minutes, one last 10 seconds.

The umpires force him to do that?

[The bulldog tragician]

The officiating is being elevated as though it was the key determinant of the match. It’s not like the last gasp one in Geelong earlier this year, where a free missed in the last few seconds would certainly have altered the result. There is no obvious howler..I genuinely think the most contentious decision was overturning Bont’s goal.

This was a brilliant well-contested match with brave and committed efforts on both side, played at breakneck speed, swings of momentum, and lots of amazing moments. Most thought it was the match of the season yet somehow nitpicking about free kick “tallies” is becoming the narrative and I’m getting pretty angry!

[SonofScray]

It’s incredibly disrespectful to all parties.

[Go_Dogs]

Enough air time for this topic.

Brisbane players and fans, you were not good enough for long enough. Best of luck in 2022 (except for when you play us).

[FrediKanoute]

I think this one was a cut and dry free kick. McInerney had eyes only for English and straight up blocked him. One of the clearest frees of the day.

Agree. What was strange about it was that it was paid! Imagine how good Timmy's ruckwork would be if umpires paid this all the time!

[Ghost Dog]

Forget it. All this whingeing about free kicks and it was their home turf and if they were really the better team they would've won by five or six goals.

[Happy Days]

Discussing the standard of umpiring is a lot like "remember when":


https://youtu.be/j9kL3it5cFI

[Testekill]

The biggest differential is that we don't give away a lot of high tackles and play fairly clean; we tackle around the midsection instead of the chest and we don't play silly buggers trying to work opponents over.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Can't the football world just credit us for putting our noses over the ball first and are more likely to draw a free kick and also could it possibly be that our tackling technique when our tackles stick are of a high quality that also warrants paying the free kick.

Brisbane could have quite easily won that game if they kicked better in the dying stages so the football world needs to pull their heads in on us getting more free kicks than anyone else and may be look at the play in general.

I wonder how the umpiring division is feeling about them being accused of bias or not doing their job.

I suspect we spend time addressing how not to give frees and are good at it. Plus we play the ball and are first to it more often.
We have no dickheads and are disciplined. The frees come and we minimise free against.

[Twodogs]

Enough air time for this topic.

Brisbane players and fans, you were not good enough for long enough. Best of luck in 2022 (except for when you play us).

Or try to knock us out of a top four spot. I'd have to have something along the lines of, oh I don't know, maybe a TIMEKEEPING *!*!*!*!ING ERROR or something like that, help them out.

[jeemak]

I suspect we spend time addressing how not to give frees and are good at it. Plus we play the ball and are first to it more often.
We have no dickheads and are disciplined. The frees come and we minimise free against.

When Don Pyke and a few others sooked it up in 2016 Bevo got really terse and suggested there might be something in our training that is behind the differentials.

[Ghost Dog]

The biggest differential is that we don't give away a lot of high tackles and play fairly clean; we tackle around the midsection instead of the chest and we don't play silly buggers trying to work opponents over.

For sure and we broke a lot of tackles. Bailey Smith, Bailey Dale, Bont, all breaking through. Great core strength.

[Topdog]

There is no rule that the free kick tally needs to be close.
You get to the ball first, you play hard, you tackle clean and what do you know you earn free kicks.

[Raw Toast]

There is a pretty decent Twitter account operated by an umpire (supposedly) who goes through and rates each contentious decision as right or wrong. It’s called Has-the-umpire-made-a-bad-decision if anyone wants a look. Not much room for grey area or nuance in the way they are listed but pretty interesting. Lists them quarter by quarter, I would post but I can’t figure out how to put them up.

Wrong calls on the night were 7-7 from what I can see in the ratings. Interestingly the Essendon game has lots of missed ones for us that the account thought we should have got.

I find the inconsistency with the way umpires are judged frustrating. Generally ppl can’t decide if they want them to adjudicate to the rules or on “feel”. Kane Cornes on the footy show this morning is a prime example.

For those interested, the link to this account is here (https://twitter.com/hasumpstuffedup).

And I've put the free by free analysis from that account down below.

For what it's worth, I disagree on the Gardner free kick, and thought that the McCluggage holding the ball was fine at the end of the first half, while as a commenter to the twitter thread noted, we regularly get mark's paid like Bont's glorious take over the big O.

Nevertheless, that's all nit-picking. Clearly from an independent unbiased observer, the disputable calls in the game broke both ways, and were roughly equal. And I agree with MJP that arguably the biggest mistakes went against us.

1032
1033

[Happy Days]

VDM got driven to the ground in the back on the matchwinning point, just saying.

[Mantis]

VDM got driven to the ground in the back on the matchwinning point, just saying.

Given VDM's kicking I'm happy for the point to stand, but we would've been able to set the ground up better from a stop play situation.

[Ozza]

I really hate the narrative, predominently pushed by Kane Cornes, that the umpires need to let it go and not pay frees down the stretch. Thats completely ridiculous. He pointed particularly to the English free. That is a blocking free every day of the week and completely obvious. If a ruckman goes past the ball and doesn't touch the footy - it is a blocking free. It is black and white and paid every time that it happens. I've heard Razor talk about it multiple times when he's on Whateley. If you're going to go past the ball - you better hope you get the hit out because its otherwise a clear infringement.

The problem isn't the umpires - its the fans having a lack of understanding of the rules, or just being one-eyed. I thought we were penalised fairly harshly twice in the 3rd quarter without much or any prior and the lions probably missed out on a couple of tough calls in the last quarter - but the game was umpired well given it was a pretty frenetic contest.

[mjp]

He is beneath contempt. What sort of adult changes football teams? That's so weak.

I changed NBA teams when the 76'ers were tanking.

John from the Lystics podcast changed from Collingwood to Fremantle after deciding that Collingwood's 'behaviours' didn't match his personal values...

I think changing is OK (can't believe I am saying that) but I think there has to be a carefully thought out decision.

[comrade]

Blaming the umpires in a 1 point game when your team misses straightforward opportunities is just a defence mechanism to help you deal with the pain of defeat. Much easier to blame an outside force and direct your anger there then accept your side wasn't good enough when it counted.

[Happy Days]

Blaming the umpires in a 1 point game when your team misses straightforward opportunities is just a defence mechanism to help you deal with the pain of defeat. Much easier to blame an outside force and direct your anger there then accept your side wasn't good enough when it counted.

There it is. In the last 2 minutes Brisbane;

1. Gave away a completely horrible, unforced self-own free kick in a ruck contest

2. Failed to defend a ball geting out the back allowing a score (and being very fortunate to not give away an ITB free dead in front (okay maybe not dead in front but he's like a 80% chance to goal from there))

3. Lost a crucial one on one contest with their best and fastest player streaming into 50

4. Lost a stoppage situation allowing Caleb to clear and totally deliberately lace out Roarke - even if the kick was a fluke how did he of all players have that much space?

5. Punted the ball into the stands going inside 50 on the last possession chain of the game.

Remember the Cats game where we did everything wrong for 90 straight seconds and lost because of it? This was that but the good version of it.

[Vred]

Blaming the umpires in a 1 point game when your team misses straightforward opportunities is just a defence mechanism to help you deal with the pain of defeat. Much easier to blame an outside force and direct your anger there then accept your side wasn't good enough when it counted.


Couldn't agree more.

[Mantis]

There it is. In the last 2 minutes Brisbane;

1. Gave away a completely horrible, unforced self-own free kick in a ruck contest

2. Failed to defend a ball geting out the back allowing a score (and being very fortunate to not give away an ITB free dead in front (okay maybe not dead in front but he's like a 80% chance to goal from there))

3. Lost a crucial one on one contest with their best and fastest player streaming into 50

4. Lost a stoppage situation allowing Caleb to clear and totally deliberately lace out Roarke - even if the kick was a fluke how did he of all players have that much space?

5. Punted the ball into the stands going inside 50 on the last possession chain of the game.

Remember the Cats game where we did everything wrong for 90 straight seconds and lost because of it? This was that but the good version of it.

The 2 players who impacted the play for us (Smith & VDM) both had defenders goal side of them when the ball came inside 50 from English, but Smith worked harder than his opponent (Coleman) and VDM harder than Rich to influence the contest... it's the little things that you can control that matter in close games... not the umpires.

[Happy Days]

The 2 players who impacted the play for us (Smith & VDM) both had defenders goal side of them when the ball came inside 50 from English, but Smith worked harder than his opponent (Coleman) and VDM harder than Rich to influence the contest... it's the little things that you can control that matter in close games... not the umpires.

Someone working harder than Daniel Rich? No way!

[Boots]

Apologies if this has already been posted but here (https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/comments/pi939z/lions_vs_bulldogs_real_free_kick_count/) is a good short recount of the free kicks by a neutral reviewer from reddit. Good complement to the Twitter guy up-thread.

Summary:
1034

As I said in the game day thread, I thought the umpiring was abysmal throughout, really inconsistent and also insistent (ie there were way too many things being called). Inconsistency is bad for the viewers, but it's worse for the players. It's the real problem.

In general my feeling is that the Umps are part of the 'terrain' and need to be accounted for rather than complained about. Our guys seem to account for the umps better than any other team in the comp, and give very few frees away. I used to coach my students the same way when I was a fencing coach - if your ref won't call your attacks on preparation, you need to switch tactics and do something else - because they will never work. The answer to the whims of umpiring is capitalise on it by playing to the ump's bias. The best player - the one with more tactical depth and discipline - will succeed.

To put it another way, you wouldn't complain about the wind, you'd capitalise on it. Umpires are like the wind - capricious and unavoidable.

Saying your team lost because of the umpires is a sign of a tiny, feeble mind. This is the image I think of when I see anyone sooking about the umpires:

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpics.me.me%2Ffox11-stolen-pony-n-e-s-kttv-kttv-dt-los-an-8153178.png&f=1&nofb=1

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Haha. Pretty much the same result as the ‘16 grand final. i.e we should have had MORE free kicks given to us!

Just confirms the sour grapes amongst lions fans and bizarrely amongst neutrals and the media.

Better sweep this under the rug else people will have to admit we deserve and earn our success despite being up against even greater odds than their entitled teams.

[bornadog]

The whinging and whining about free kicks is up there with playgrounds shut in Victoria during lockdown - just unbelievable.

[Bulldog Joe]

Haha. Pretty much the same result as the ‘16 grand final. i.e we should have had MORE free kicks given to us!

Just confirms the sour grapes amongst lions fans and bizarrely amongst neutrals and the media.

Better sweep this under the rug else people will have to admit we deserve and earn our success despite being up against even greater odds than their entitled teams.

The alleged neutrals are mostly jealous of our ability to play to the interpretation when their's teams are unable to manage that skill/tactic.

The media lack any feel and just look for something to make a story.

The perception that frees should be awarded equally is simply lacking on understanding.

[Grantysghost]

It's an overall disdain for authority, I'm sure there's some father issues with most of them.... it's insane to think in a game where there are so many decisions made 1 or 2 can make a difference.

I know a very good psychologist quite well!

[hujsh]

I'll just say that maybe some on here should be a bit careful before claiming that all complaining about umping is just whinging. I'd wager attitudes were different in 1997.

[jeemak]

I'll just say that maybe some on here should be a bit careful before claiming that all complaining about umping is just whinging. I'd wager attitudes were different in 1997.

1997? I'm all about 2009 thanks.

[bornadog]

1997? I'm all about 2009 thanks.

Yeah that free to Riewoldt

[HOSE B ROMERO]

As my Grand pop used to say "The man in lemon/lime is always right".

[jeemak]

Apologies if this has already been posted but here (https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/comments/pi939z/lions_vs_bulldogs_real_free_kick_count/) is a good short recount of the free kicks by a neutral reviewer from reddit. Good complement to the Twitter guy up-thread.

Summary:
1034

As I said in the game day thread, I thought the umpiring was abysmal throughout, really inconsistent and also insistent (ie there were way too many things being called). Inconsistency is bad for the viewers, but it's worse for the players. It's the real problem.

In general my feeling is that the Umps are part of the 'terrain' and need to be accounted for rather than complained about. Our guys seem to account for the umps better than any other team in the comp, and give very few frees away. I used to coach my students the same way when I was a fencing coach - if your ref won't call your attacks on preparation, you need to switch tactics and do something else - because they will never work. The answer to the whims of umpiring is capitalise on it by playing to the ump's bias. The best player - the one with more tactical depth and discipline - will succeed.

To put it another way, you wouldn't complain about the wind, you'd capitalise on it. Umpires are like the wind - capricious and unavoidable.

Saying your team lost because of the umpires is a sign of a tiny, feeble mind. This is the image I think of when I see anyone sooking about the umpires:

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpics.me.me%2Ffox11-stolen-pony-n-e-s-kttv-kttv-dt-los-an-8153178.png&f=1&nofb=1

Hey Boots, do you have a link to that reddit post?

[Happy Days]

Hey Boots, do you have a link to that reddit post?

Click on the word “here”.

[jeemak]

Click on the word “here”.

Ha, thanks I didn't notice that or read it properly!!! Cheers.

[Twodogs]

Click on the word “here”.

How many other posters have been clicking on the 'here' above?

[Flamethrower]

It's all just confirmation bias now...any loss to the Bulldogs is now immediately blamed on the umpires and some fanciful AFL bias.

We could beat Port by 100 points on Saturday night, with the Power winning the free kick count 50-1, and all we would hear is how that 1 free kick the Dogs got won them the game.

[bulldogtragic]

It's all just confirmation bias now...any loss to the Bulldogs is now immediately blamed on the umpires and some fanciful AFL bias.

We could beat Port by 100 points on Saturday night, with the Power winning the free kick count 50-1, and all we would hear is how that 1 free kick the Dogs got won them the game.

I can live with that. More than fine.

[Cyberdoggie]

The ruck free at the end was technical and while probably there, regularly doesn't get paid so can understand it causing frustration. What I can't understand is the bleating that it cost the Lions the game.

It was given in the middle of the ground, not the goal square. Lions defenders still had an opportunity to set up and kill it or win it back and rebound to set up a win. They did neither and coughed up a point through some excellent contested work from our guys.

It gets paid when the offending players doesn't actually touch the ball. You can do it and if you get the tap they don't pay a free kick.

[Cyberdoggie]

We usually win the free kick count because we are first to the ball, we have some smalls that put themselves in a position to get those high free kicks (sometimes deliberately), and because the opposition are trying to put the pressure on our mids to cause turnover and prevent our style of football.

When we had a 3 game run of losses we were not doing as well in the free kicks because we weren't cracking in first and we were letting the opposition win the contested ball. Pretty simple.

[Raw Toast]

On a related side-note, it's ridiculous that umpiring hasn't been made a full-time job. As well as our hearts and souls, a huge amount of $ is at stake.

Giving umpires more time to prepare for all facets of the game (fitness, positioning, film work, analysis, team-work etc) would surely help bring some more accuracy and consistency to what is a very hard task.

[Twodogs]

On a related side-note, it's ridiculous that umpiring hasn't been made a full-time job. As well as our hearts and souls, a huge amount of $ is at stake.

Giving umpires more time to prepare for all facets of the game (fitness, positioning, film work, analysis, team-work etc) would surely help bring some more accuracy and consistency to what is a very hard task.

It's a very good point.

[NoseBleed]

On a related side-note, it's ridiculous that umpiring hasn't been made a full-time job. As well as our hearts and souls, a huge amount of $ is at stake.

Giving umpires more time to prepare for all facets of the game (fitness, positioning, film work, analysis, team-work etc) would surely help bring some more accuracy and consistency to what is a very hard task.

Reading this, I started wondering if any of them are full time, which led to me googling them, which led to this salty little find on Wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Meredith_(umpire)

Comedy gold.

[Ghost Dog]

Reading this, I started wondering if any of them are full time, which led to me googling them, which led to this salty little find on Wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Meredith_(umpire)

Comedy gold.
Very funny.
Swans, if you could only kick straight you’d be joining us the prelude to the big dance. Good kicking is good footy guys.