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azabob
12-09-2021, 12:02 PM
Back in 2017 I moved into a new place which does not have a TV Antenna and to get one installed is $2K plus.

In 2017, 2018 and 2019 I limped through with a "rabbit ears version" and it didn't matter too much as I could actually go to the games.

During 2020 I put my hand in my pocket and subscribed to Kayo which has seen me sorted, until now...

My understanding is Kayo does not have the rights to stream the Grand Final and channel 7 will not stream it on their app.

Do I have to pray my make shift antenna works or I am doomed to a radio call only?

Over to you brains trust...

Happy Days
12-09-2021, 12:05 PM
If you’re still having issues game day I’ll find a link (obviously on how to get better reception) and DM it to you.

bulldogtragic
12-09-2021, 12:08 PM
Shit really? I’m out beyond FTA TV. So only Kayo was my option.

Does Foxtel carry it at all? Separate to Kayo?

azabob
12-09-2021, 12:09 PM
Shit really? I’m out beyond FTA TV. So only Kayo was my option.

Does Foxtel carry it at all? Separate to Kayo?

I honestly don't know, but I don't think so.

It is all to do with the stupid rights agreement.

bulldogtragic
12-09-2021, 12:13 PM
I honestly don't know, but I don't think so.

It is all to do with the stupid rights agreement.

No they don’t. 7 or 7+ is it.

DOG GOD
12-09-2021, 12:13 PM
Fox footy definitely don’t show the game. They have a pre game segment and then come back after the game for analysis
Hope you get something sorted Azabob

azabob
12-09-2021, 12:19 PM
No they don’t. 7 or 7+ is it.

You being in NSW may get you 7+ but don't rely on the option.

bulldogtragic
12-09-2021, 12:46 PM
You being in NSW may get you 7+ but don't rely on the option.

Foxtel apologised for the last few seasons of GoT and sent me a Foxtel Now box. I just plugged it in and it’s streaming all Ch7. Hopefully it covers the GF.

hujsh
12-09-2021, 12:48 PM
I've never set up the FTA TV in my appartment so hopefully it works. Will need a long cable though cause the TV is on the other side of the room. Looks like I'm forking out $25 to Officeworks or whatever for a cable.

hujsh
12-09-2021, 12:50 PM
Foxtel apologised for the last few seasons of GoT and sent me a Foxtel Now box. I just plugged it in and it’s streaming all Ch7. Hopefully it covers the GF.

I think it does but you might (depending on your deal) have worse quality picture than 7HD.

That said it's been quite some time since I used Foxtel

bulldogsthru&thru
12-09-2021, 12:54 PM
Will it be streamed on 7s website? Surely there has to be options for those without FTA.

soupman
12-09-2021, 12:57 PM
We stream everything here so it better be watchable through their app. It isn't like we can go to the pub to watch it.

bulldogsthru&thru
12-09-2021, 12:59 PM
Apparently it will be on 7plus. Where did you hear it won’t azabob?

I need to lock in my backup option in case of any power outage!

bulldogtragic
12-09-2021, 01:00 PM
I think it does but you might (depending on your deal) have worse quality picture than 7HD.

That said it's been quite some time since I used Foxtel

I think it’s just a roku unit with their name on it. I can watch all their channels at the moment l.

MrMahatma
12-09-2021, 01:05 PM
I’d be shocked if it’s not on their app. Channel 9 def put the league (I’m thinking Origin here) on their app. Kayo don’t show Origin so similar situation. They make you sign up… get your data etc. It’s a massive benefit for them as a business to actually show it on the app…

hujsh
12-09-2021, 01:23 PM
According to Lifehacker.com it will be on 7plus so if that's not official confirmation I don't know what is

azabob
12-09-2021, 01:45 PM
Apparently it will be on 7plus. Where did you hear it won’t azabob?

I need to lock in my backup option in case of any power outage!

I tried to watch some finals last year through 7+ app and also the post game last night through 7+ app and could not.

Doc26
12-09-2021, 01:54 PM
I did watch the prelim last night in HD via Foxtel but from the comments above and from what I’ve read online they don’t have the rights for the GF.

bulldogsthru&thru
12-09-2021, 02:02 PM
I tried to watch some finals last year through 7+ app and also the post game last night through 7+ app and could not.

Hmmm did it give a reason or it just wasn’t on? Where are you based?

angelopetraglia
12-09-2021, 02:05 PM
Last year instructions from Channel 7. It said you could stream it last year.

https://7plus.com.au/where-to-watch-the-afl-grand-final

bulldogsthru&thru
12-09-2021, 02:07 PM
I found this interesting tidbit

AFL Grand Final live stream
“As AFL streaming rights belong to Foxtel and Kayo, there are only a limited number of devices available to stream the AFL Grand Final live with Network Seven’s 7Plus. If you have a Telstra TV, Samsung Tizen (2016 or later), Fetch TV, Apple TV, Playstation 4 or Android TV, you will be able to stream the AFL Final live. If you use an alternative device, you will only be able to stream the AFL Grand Final on demand with Foxtel and Kayo after the final whistle. Find out how to stream AFL Grand Final replays with Foxtel and Kayo below.“

https://www.comparetv.com.au/news/how-to-watch-afl-grand-final-2021/

bulldogsthru&thru
12-09-2021, 02:08 PM
Ok sweet what I posted matches what ap posted. That might be your issue azabob.

bornadog
12-09-2021, 02:09 PM
Apple TV 4k, best streaming device if anyone is looking at purchasing one.

bulldogsthru&thru
12-09-2021, 02:14 PM
So I’m pretty much stuffed if there’s a blackout. Can’t even go to someone else’s place.

azabob
12-09-2021, 04:44 PM
So I’m pretty much stuffed if there’s a blackout. Can’t even go to someone else’s place.

It looks like the set top box / streaming options are the only way to go via the 7plus app.

bornadog
12-09-2021, 05:01 PM
It looks like the set top box / streaming options are the only way to go via the 7plus app.

What about off your phone and cast to TV?

bulldogsthru&thru
12-09-2021, 05:11 PM
What about off your phone and cast to TV?

Apparently you can’t stream the game on your phone. Can only do it on certain devices.

soupman
13-09-2021, 12:16 PM
So I can't chrome cast it? We haven't used non streamed tv in years, this is bullshit.

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 12:18 PM
So I can't chrome cast it? We haven't used non streamed tv in years, this is bullshit.

What did you do last year for the grand final?

soupman
13-09-2021, 12:20 PM
What did you do last year for the grand final?

Went to a mates place. Not really an option atm.

Topdog
13-09-2021, 12:30 PM
I dont think they will limit it to certain devices, it would actually be quite a bit of work to limit it in such a fashion and from what I have seen from 7 they are not big of lots of work.

Having said that I'm screwed if they do limit it.

bornadog
13-09-2021, 12:32 PM
So I can't chrome cast it? We haven't used non streamed tv in years, this is bullshit.

I have sent 7Plus a support query to see if they will have casting this year.

BornInDroopSt'54
13-09-2021, 12:43 PM
So I’m pretty much stuffed if there’s a blackout. Can’t even go to someone else’s place.
Follow it live on WOOF!
In 2016 my neighbour offered me 3 entries to GF.
It was a kind of charity set up by security.
The deal was wait till first siren, the security guy opens gate and you run in and blend.
Happens every year.
Declined because I had to worry about my two adult sons.
Watched it on TV instead.

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 01:01 PM
I dont think they will limit it to certain devices, it would actually be quite a bit of work to limit it in such a fashion and from what I have seen from 7 they are not big of lots of work.

Having said that I'm screwed if they do limit it.

Reading the links provided on the previous page, this is indeed what they’re doing. I think the restrictions are there because of kayos/Foxtel rights to streaming. It’s stupidly stupid.

Sedat
13-09-2021, 01:03 PM
Follow it live on WOOF!
WOOF match day threads are 1,000 times more entertaining and informative than the utterly garbage ch 7 coverage.

azabob
13-09-2021, 01:47 PM
WOOF match day threads are 1,000 times more entertaining and informative than the utterly garbage ch 7 coverage.

I agree, but we need someone to provide a timeline of events or at least when the quarter starts, half way point, when the quarter ends etc.

kruder
13-09-2021, 01:48 PM
So feel wise 7+ app on your Android TV should work?

hujsh
13-09-2021, 01:59 PM
So I can't chrome cast it? We haven't used non streamed tv in years, this is bullshit.

Welcome to Australia and Channel 7, the home of our greatest sport presented in glorious 720p

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 02:05 PM
So feel wise 7+ app on your Android TV should work?

It sounds like you can stream if you do it from one of these devices:

Telstra TV,
Samsung Tizen (2016 or later),
Fetch TV,
Apple TV,
Playstation 4 or
Android TV

bornadog
13-09-2021, 02:56 PM
Welcome to Australia and Channel 7, the home of our greatest sport presented in glorious 720p

It's a bloody joke isn't it. 4K has been around for awhile now and they are stuck in the dark ages.

bornadog
13-09-2021, 03:13 PM
We stream everything here so it better be watchable through their app. It isn't like we can go to the pub to watch it.

I got a response:

Hi Michael,
Thank you for contacting 7plus support.
Unfortunately we don't have rights for AFL Grand Final streaming rights on all of the devices.
You will not be able to live stream this content on a mobile device.
We are sorry for the inconvenience.
Regards,
7 Digital Support Team

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 03:13 PM
Imagine the outrage if Melbourne has some freak storm grand final night. There’s no way to watch the game without a tv. It’s nuts.

I hope everyone can watch it. But make sure you have a backup plan in case of an outage.

Rocco Jones
13-09-2021, 03:17 PM
I got a response:

Hi Michael,
Thank you for contacting 7plus support.
Unfortunately we don't have rights for AFL Grand Final streaming rights on all of the devices.
You will not be able to live stream this content on a mobile device.
We are sorry for the inconvenience.
Regards,
7 Digital Support Team

Thanks for your work BAD. Are you aware if we can stream it off a smart TV?

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 03:19 PM
Thanks for your work BAD. Are you aware if we can stream it off a smart TV?

If it’s Samsung or android then yes you should. As long as it’s fairly recent.

Rocco Jones
13-09-2021, 03:27 PM
If it’s Samsung or android then yes you should. As long as it’s fairly recent.

So if I can download the app (which I can), I’m good to go?

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 03:30 PM
So if I can download the app (which I can), I’m good to go?

What tv do you have?

I haven’t ever watched a match this way so can’t say with certainty but going off what I’ve read, a post 2016 Samsung or android tv should work with the 7+ app.

bornadog
13-09-2021, 03:31 PM
So if I can download the app (which I can), I’m good to go?

Yes you should be able to.

Check here (https://7plus.com.au/where-to-watch-the-afl-grand-final)


On what devices can I watch the AFL Grand Final?

You can watch the AFL Grand Final on the following devices:


Telstra TV
Samsung Tizen (2016 and later)
Fetch TV
Apple TV
PlayStation 4
Android TV



*Android TV refers to the TV/Set Top Box version of the Android Operating System, which is available on select Smart TV's and devices such as the nVidia Shield and Foxtel Now Box. For more information on Android TV

Rocco Jones
13-09-2021, 03:33 PM
Thanks heaps guys.

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 03:34 PM
Yes you should be able to.

Check here (https://7plus.com.au/where-to-watch-the-afl-grand-final)

I believe Sony TVs have android tv so should work. But it will depend on the model.

Topdog
13-09-2021, 03:42 PM
Chromecast with Google TV should work but who knows with 7+ liking old technology so much.
Technically does Android TV even exist anymore?
Available on PS4 but not PS5?

soupman
13-09-2021, 03:48 PM
Yes you should be able to.

Check here (https://7plus.com.au/where-to-watch-the-afl-grand-final)

That appears to be the 2020 info

bornadog
13-09-2021, 03:48 PM
That appears to be the 2020 info

Yes, still the same, especially devices you can stream on.

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 03:49 PM
Chromecast with Google TV should work but who knows with 7+ liking old technology so much.
Technically does Android TV even exist anymore?
Available on PS4 but not PS5?

I wouldn’t count on using chromecast. But who knows, it’s way more complicated than it needs to be.

A lot of smart tvs use android tv as their software for streaming. Sony is one and I think hisense is another.

bornadog
13-09-2021, 03:51 PM
Chromecast with Google TV should work but who knows with 7+ liking old technology so much.
Technically does Android TV even exist anymore?
Available on PS4 but not PS5?

From 7Plus

Can I Chromecast or AirPlay the AFL Grand Final?


No, the 7plus coverage of the 2020 AFL Grand Final is not available for Chromecast or AirPlay.

Also applies to 2021 according to email back to me.

soupman
13-09-2021, 03:57 PM
I've set up the & app on my PS4 which should work, really hoping that whatever can't broadcast it cuts out at least 15 minutes prior to the GF to at least give us room to scramble if what I think works doesn't.

soupman
13-09-2021, 04:00 PM
Ps4 should work

Just terrified if it doesn't I'm stuffed. And it isn't even a day Grand Final so I can't do my ultimate fall back which is "Wait till it's over and watch it on delay with a complete media blackout" unless I'm prepared to wait till 10.30.

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 04:10 PM
Yeah ps4 should work but I understand your hesitancy. No way to test it. But if you’re getting a live feed right now, I’d expect that to continue given they’ve stated ps4 is a valid way to go. Just unbelievable in this day and age, in a lockdown where we can’t go to pubs or other people’s houses, some might have no way to watch a grand final without forking out for new tech.

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 04:17 PM
You’d just think common sense prevails here. Ok channel 7 don’t have streaming rights because Foxtel have it. But Foxtel don’t have rights to stream the grand final live. So all viewers are left in this dark hole. Surely either can step in to make it more widely available. Doesn’t the AFEL want more viewers?? Especially in a lockdown??

bornadog
13-09-2021, 04:22 PM
You’d just think common sense prevails here. Ok channel 7 don’t have streaming rights because Foxtel have it. But Foxtel don’t have rights to stream the grand final live. So all viewers are left in this dark hole. Surely either can step in to make it more widely available. Doesn’t the AFEL want more viewers?? Especially in a lockdown??

Does Telstra have rights on mobile Devices? May have to pay for the day? I will check it out.

EDIT

All I found was this:

https://www.watchafl.com.au/

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 04:24 PM
Does Telstra have rights on mobile Devices? May have to pay for the day? I will check it out.

I’m not sure what happened with Telstra because last year and this year they just funneled all their customers to kayo.

MrMahatma
13-09-2021, 04:35 PM
So let me get this straight:
- Kayo have streaming rights, but not for live GF so you can’t watch it on Kayo
- Ch7 have GF live rights, but not mobile device streaming - so no using mobiles to watch or to cast onto a TV.
- You can watch on free to air TV or via 7plus app on a smart TV using the devices listed previously.h

Telstra TV,
Samsung Tizen (2016 or later),
Fetch TV,
Apple TV,
Playstation 4 or
Android TV

Is that summary correct?

hujsh
13-09-2021, 04:43 PM
Can't even find the bloody app on my PS4.

hujsh
13-09-2021, 04:43 PM
So let me get this straight:
- Kayo have streaming rights, but not for live GF so you can’t watch it on Kayo
- Ch7 have GF live rights, but not mobile device streaming - so no using mobiles to watch or to cast onto a TV.
- You can watch on free to air TV or via 7plus app on a smart TV using the devices listed previously.h

Telstra TV,
Samsung Tizen (2016 or later),
Fetch TV,
Apple TV,
Playstation 4 or
Android TV

Is that summary correct?


That's the stupid situation we find ourselves in

azabob
13-09-2021, 04:59 PM
So let me get this straight:
- Kayo have streaming rights, but not for live GF so you can’t watch it on Kayo
- Ch7 have GF live rights, but not mobile device streaming - so no using mobiles to watch or to cast onto a TV.
- You can watch on free to air TV or via 7plus app on a smart TV using the devices listed previously.h

Telstra TV,
Samsung Tizen (2016 or later),
Fetch TV,
Apple TV,
Playstation 4 or
Android TV

Is that summary correct?

We think so...

comrade
13-09-2021, 05:08 PM
We don't even have a *!*!*!*!ing TV in our house!

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 05:08 PM
So let me get this straight:
- Kayo have streaming rights, but not for live GF so you can’t watch it on Kayo
- Ch7 have GF live rights, but not mobile device streaming - so no using mobiles to watch or to cast onto a TV.
- You can watch on free to air TV or via 7plus app on a smart TV using the devices listed previously.h

Telstra TV,
Samsung Tizen (2016 or later),
Fetch TV,
Apple TV,
Playstation 4 or
Android TV

Is that summary correct?

Based on articles and BADs info from 7, this is essentially it. Moronic really.

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 05:09 PM
We don't even have a *!*!*!*!ing TV in our house!

What are you watching games on?

comrade
13-09-2021, 05:11 PM
What are you watching games on?

Kayo on my laptop.

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 05:11 PM
5 pages on a bulldogs supporter forum to figure out how to watch the biggest event in our sporting calendar and it still isn’t clear. It’s bloody horrendous from the AFL.

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 05:12 PM
Kayo on my laptop.

Did you watch at a mates/pub last year for the grand final?

comrade
13-09-2021, 05:12 PM
Did you watch at a mates/pub last year for the grand final?

Watched at the old man's, makes it tougher with restrictions this year but obviously nothing is going to stop me.

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 05:17 PM
Watched at the old man's, makes it tougher with restrictions this year but obviously nothing is going to stop me.

Yeah without a tv, it seems you’re out of luck otherwise.

bulldogtragic
13-09-2021, 05:40 PM
So in a 1 in 100 pandemic, they can use common sense to push the MCG deal out. But can’t use common sense to adjust broadcasting deal with respect to streaming.

I think I’ve worked it out for me, or I hope so, but if you live a long way from a tower as I do, I just can’t get anything like a decent signal even with strong antenna boosters. So I rely on Kayo & Foxtel. That there’s not a commercial deal to be had here just *!*!*!*!s over some rural/regional people and others that don’t fit neatly into the nice little box Ch7 & AFEL have decided on. But whatever, so people don’t watch the GF and the corporate overlords see that as a victory...

bulldogsthru&thru
13-09-2021, 05:51 PM
So in a 1 in 100 pandemic, they can use common sense to push the MCG deal out. But can’t use common sense to adjust broadcasting deal with respect to streaming.

I think I’ve worked it out for me, or I hope so, but if you live a long way from a tower as I do, I just can’t get anything like a decent signal even with strong antenna boosters. So I rely on Kayo & Foxtel. That there’s not a commercial deal to be had here just *!*!*!*!s over some rural/regional people and others that don’t fit neatly into the nice little box Ch7 & AFEL have decided on. But whatever, so people don’t watch the GF and the corporate overlords see that as a victory...

Ah the corporate overlords. The same ones who whinge about having a public holiday for a sports event? Ok if you compare it to other countries it does seem a little silly, but it’s a day off ffs!! I’ll take it!

GVGjr
13-09-2021, 05:59 PM
We don't even have a *!*!*!*!ing TV in our house!

One day soon I'm going to ask you how this happened :)

jeemak
13-09-2021, 06:10 PM
I just splashed out on a new TV and sound bar today, was able to get a very good deal via a friend. If thinking of doing the same be mindful of delivery timings, because they could be a bit cooked in certain areas.

The preference would be to splash out on travel to Perth etc. etc. but if I'm going to be home then so be it. I was due anyway, the TV I have has a black faded spot the size of a water polo ball about a third up and slightly to the left and that just won't do for a grand final.

I can send it up to Ballarat if you need Comrade.

MrMahatma
13-09-2021, 06:38 PM
I just splashed out on a new TV and sound bar today, was able to get a very good deal via a friend. If thinking of doing the same be mindful of delivery timings, because they could be a bit cooked in certain areas.

The preference would be to splash out on travel to Perth etc. etc. but if I'm going to be home then so be it. I was due anyway, the TV I have has a black faded spot the size of a water polo ball about a third up and slightly to the left and that just won't do for a grand final.

I can send it up to Ballarat if you need Comrade.

I bought a projector and Apple TV last year and watch all the night games on the deck with that set up. I’ll be having a medium sized gathering with friends (sorry… not meaning to rub it in…) and am stoked it’s a night GF cause the projector is unwatchable in the daytime.

bornadog
13-09-2021, 07:51 PM
I wonder if you can watch 7Plus GF on a web browser. I know you can watch other 7Plus shows on a browser

jeemak
13-09-2021, 07:53 PM
I wonder if you can watch 7Plus GF on a web browser. I know you can watch other 7Plu shows on a browser

You would be able to with a VPN?

WatchAFL via a VPN would work, will cost about $130.00 for the pleasure though....plus the cost of the VPN.

bornadog
13-09-2021, 09:54 PM
You would be able to with a VPN?

WatchAFL via a VPN would work, will cost about $130.00 for the pleasure though....plus the cost of the VPN.

I have an Apple tv4k which I would highly recommend to you. The new version came out this year, but I will stick with the 2017 version. I do run Geoblocking if I want to watch some overseas apps like HBO, or USA Netflix etc.

hujsh
13-09-2021, 11:18 PM
I've decided the 7 Plus app on the PS4 isn't good looking enough so I'm buying a 10 meter tv antenna cable instead.

Best of all is I can continue to use it to watch all those quality channel 7 shows that we all love...

jeemak
13-09-2021, 11:26 PM
I have an Apple tv4k which I would highly recommend to you. The new version came out this year, but I will stick with the 2017 version. I do run Geoblocking if I want to watch some overseas apps like HBO, or USA Netflix etc.

I went with this:

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/sony-x90j-65-bravia-xr-full-array-led-4k-google-tv-2021

I'm more of a music guy....which you may have picked up on so buying TVs isn't really my thing (I do have a Sony Bravia 62 inch that's about nine years old and has a dark spot on it, but I picked that up on the cheap about seven years ago). I'm just sad at the realisation my LSR JBL monitors and 12 inch sub that I would love to get cranking isn't viable for the small space in which I'm residing for the foreseeable future.

For the sound bar I went with:

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/jbl-bar-9-1-channel-soundbar-system-with-surround-speakers

The heart belongs to JBL........this stuff will last me for ten years hopefully as it's a shit tonne to fork out even though I got a good deal via a mate.

angelopetraglia
13-09-2021, 11:46 PM
I went with this:

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/sony-x90j-65-bravia-xr-full-array-led-4k-google-tv-2021

I'm more of a music guy....which you may have picked up on so buying TVs isn't really my thing (I do have a Sony Bravia 62 inch that's about nine years old and has a dark spot on it, but I picked that up on the cheap about seven years ago). I'm just sad at the realisation my LSR JBL monitors and 12 inch sub that I would love to get cranking isn't viable for the small space in which I'm residing for the foreseeable future.

For the sound bar I went with:

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/jbl-bar-9-1-channel-soundbar-system-with-surround-speakers

The heart belongs to JBL........this stuff will last me for ten years hopefully as it's a shit tonne to fork out even though I got a good deal via a mate.

I have the same TV and it’s super impressive. It will more than do the job. Android interface is great and the full array dimming makes a big difference to the black levels when compared to standard LED. Hopefully you enjoy it as much as I do.

jeemak
14-09-2021, 12:01 AM
I have the same TV and it’s super impressive. It will more than do the job. Android interface is great and the full array dimming makes a big difference to the black levels when compared to standard LED. Hopefully you enjoy it as much as I do.

Yeah my gear head mates really rate it as an outstanding piece. Thanks dude, hopefully you're right!

Doc26
14-09-2021, 12:03 AM
The Nvidia Shield box I find is excellent, with a ton of apps and add ons to utilise beyond the GF. Of course the 7 App is available with the Shield to watch the GF as a back up if my antenna is taken out by a wayward albatross.

jeemak
14-09-2021, 02:00 AM
The Nvidia Shield box I find is excellent, with a ton of apps and add ons to utilise beyond the GF. Of course the 7 App is available with the Shield to watch the GF as a back up if my antenna is taken out by a wayward albatross.

Scallywag......!

We need more of Doc26.

Bulldog4life
18-09-2021, 04:18 PM
Telstra tv comes free to all Big Pond/telstra subscribers....

hujsh
18-09-2021, 05:09 PM
Telstra tv comes free to all Big Pond/telstra subscribers....


I have a standing policy to avoid all Telstra products to the best of my ability.