Brownlow 2021

[comrade]

Can Bont win it despite having a quiet finish to the year?

My tip is Oliver by a few votes.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Reckon Steele will win it. He’s gonna poll 3 votes in all their wins as no one else on their list will take votes from him like Bont/Oliver etc.

Ultimately our last 3 weeks will cost Bont.

[bulldogtragic]

He can. I also like Macrae. Under the umpires eyes, and racked up 30+ for most of the year, with the media highlighting his record streak.

Ollie Wines probably has the least vote takers off him. That might help.

[comrade]

Cav is one of our guys attending, has a knee brace on.

[bulldogtragic]

Cav is one of our guys attending, has a knee brace on.

Will he be ok for Saturday?

[comrade]

Imagine not streaming the Brownlow on 7plus.

[kruder]

Strange cant see the Brownlow on 7 plus? The GF going to be the same? better not be

[bornadog]

Strange cant see the Brownlow on 7 plus? The GF going to be the same? better not be

We had a whole discussion on it in another thread. Get ready.

read here (https://7plus.com.au/where-to-watch-the-afl-grand-final)

[comrade]

Strange cant see the Brownlow on 7 plus? The GF going to be the same? better not be

Brownlow isn't on 7plus, same as GF.

[kruder]

Brownlow isn't on 7plus, same as GF.

GF not on 7 plus? seriously? I have an android TV it said it was

[kruder]

We had a whole discussion on it in another thread. Get ready.

read here (https://7plus.com.au/where-to-watch-the-afl-grand-final)

I have an android tv though clearly says android tv works

[comrade]

GF not on 7 plus? seriously? I have an android TV it said it was

Oh, you might be alright then.

[bulldogtragic]

So Apple TV works fine BAD? For GF previous and the Brownlow tonight?

My apparent clear fix with an alleged permitted device ain’t working.

[comrade]

So Apple TV works fine BAD? For GF previous and the Brownlow tonight?

My apparent clear fix with an alleged permitted device ain’t working.

AFL is pig scum.

[bornadog]

So Apple TV works fine BAD? For GF previous and the Brownlow tonight?

My apparent clear fix with an alleged permitted device ain’t working.

I am watching on Foxtel free to air. Haven't checked AppleTV, but will now

Edit: Nah,

[Topdog]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/brownlow-medal-2021-ultimate-guide-start-time-when-is-the-brownlow-medal-when-does-the-brownlow-finish-how-to-watch-tv-history/news-story/24bb439dda968dce206c2237b8b73435

You can watch the TV broadcast on Channel 7 in Melbourne from 7pm (AEST), before the vote count begins at 7:30pm. It’s understood the event cannot be streamed.

[bornadog]

When you go back to some of these early matches, the mids were unstoppable.

Round 6 v GWS, Macrae 40 disposals, and no votes

[bulldogtragic]

I am watching on Foxtel free to air. Haven't checked AppleTV, but will now

Edit: Nah,

Thanks BAD. Apple TV meant to be fine as well… Ah well. Thanks again.

[comrade]

Bont going ok, still think Oliver takes it.

[divvydan]

Wines polling well ahead of his expectation so he's going to be difficult to beat.

[comrade]

How does Macrae not get a single vote for his 40 possession, 1 goal game vs GWS?

[GVGjr]

I hate the way this is being called. The extra pauses do nothing for the call.

[comrade]

Sam Walsh will go very close. Polling way ahead of his expected votes.

[Mantis]

How’s Dayne Zorko’s form carrying on like a dip shit?… how about not kicking the ball OOF twice in the last 4min to cost your team a finals win you numpty!

[kruder]

i reckon it will be Oliver, Bont's last 3 games always gonna hurt.

[bulldogtragic]

At this rate three players will not win, despite probably polling more than the winners in most years.

As an aside, did they ever find Jobe’s Brownlow?

[divvydan]

Sam Walsh will go very close. Polling way ahead of his expected votes.

Yeah, perhaps secret ingredient is to be the only good player in a mediocre but competitive team.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Wines literally has a square head.

[comrade]

These interludes are woeful. Just count the votes you clowns.

[Mantis]

Go the Bont!

[comrade]

Go the Bont!

Reckon he'll get pipped in the last round.

[Mantis]

Reckon he'll get pipped in the last round.

Needs to get 1 or 2 vs Essendon.

Would be stiff getting rolled getting 34 or 35… assuming he gets 3 vs GC & Melb.

[divvydan]

Yeah, he's going to need 35+ I think otherwise he probably gets run down.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If Wines wins so be it but I can't stand Oliver.

[bornadog]

i reckon it will be Oliver, Bont's last 3 games always gonna hurt.

Bont may get a couple of votes against Essendon with 34 disposals.

[The Pie Man]

How did Cody’s mark not at least make the top 3?

Conscious bias and that, but Christ it was EASY better than any of the nominees

[bornadog]

If Wines wins so be it but I can't stand Oliver.

Same

[merantau]

Bont is a class act. Always impressed after hearing him interviewed.

[GVGjr]

The votes will dry up for Bont over the last 3 sounds so will need to get another 4 or 5 over the next few rounds.
Hasn't Walsh been prolific?

[divvydan]

Bont needs to poll in at least one more game.

[comrade]

Wines will mow him down from here.

[Mantis]

Wines will mow him down from here.

Yep.. Wines by a couple it seems.

[comrade]

Yep.. Wines by a couple it seems.

He's a good player, but Wines as Brownlow medallist just highlights how silly it all is. Would still love Bont to win though!

[Mantis]

He's a good player, but Wines as Brownlow medallist just highlights how silly it all is. Would still love Bont to win though!

No chance now.. Port rely so heavily on Wines & Boak. When they both didn’t turn up in the 1st qtr in the PF they lost their chance.

[comrade]

All over.

[divvydan]

Yeah, just one game short for Bont in the end.

[angelopetraglia]

How can Wines get 36 votes? How?

[comrade]

How can Wines get 36 votes? How?

2 man midfield.

[Mantis]

He’s a good player, but not sure he’s a Brownlow medallist… but I guess he is now.

Oh, well… we have a bigger prize on Saturday to go and win.. not sure Bont will be losing sleep over this result.

[angelopetraglia]

Wines. Most ever Brownlow votes in a season.

[angelopetraglia]

33 votes would have won the Brownlow in every single year except three. 33 votes and lose. Stiff.

[angelopetraglia]

He’s a good player, but not sure he’s a Brownlow medallist… but I guess he is now.

Oh, well… we have a bigger prize on Saturday to go and win.. not sure Bont will be losing sleep over this result.

Most ever votes in a season good? Nope.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Add Wines to Priddis. Good players... Hardly world beaters.

Onto the bigger fish, Marcus.

[Mantis]

Most ever votes in a season good? Nope.

His team won 17 games and as we saw last Saturday the rest of the team are junk so when they win he plays a major role.

[angelopetraglia]

His team won 17 games and as we saw last Saturday the rest of the team are junk so when they win he plays a major role.

Dusty 2017 is the best season I have ever seen. Wines was no where near that. Not even close.

[divvydan]

Polled in 16/22 games. Part of that is the lack of depth of Port's midfield but also Wines just playing well game after game and the team winning. 3 votes with 40d and 10g is the same as 3 votes with 25d and 1g.

[Grantysghost]

Does any one actually take this award seriously?

How many votes did Keath and Bruce get?

[comrade]

Show them who the best really is on Saturday night, Bont.

[Eastdog]

We have bigger fish to fry.

[Testekill]

Ports midfield is pretty shallow with not much outside of Wines and Boak, doesn't shock me that they didn't have anyone taking votes off of Wines.

Will say that it's pretty ridiculous that Aliir didn't get a brownlow vote in round 22 when both coaches gave him 5 votes.

[bulldogtragic]

The other side of it is that Bonts isn’t tied up for 24 hours with media and the circus with that is well away from us. 33 votes is huge. But to paraphrase Corey McKernan, I’d rather win the premiership medal as part of a team than the Brownlow as an individual.

[Eastdog]

Didn’t watch it tonight. Looking forward to Saturday night now.

[jeemak]

Disappointed for Bont but I don't have any issues with the result.

Wines had a ripping year and is noticeable in a Port side that is a touch thin in the midfield.

[bornadog]

How did Selwood get a vote in the game against us? he was reported for two separate incidents. It is supposed to be best and FAIREST.

[angelopetraglia]

Players polling 30 votes in the Brownlow Medal
1978-1993: 0
1994-2008: 3
2009-2021: 14

[Grantysghost]

Did Libba run over someone at the AFL's dog?

[Ghost Dog]

Plenty have gotten that medal who never won a premiership. Not to worry Bont.

Congrats to Ollie Wines.
I remember reports of him being devastated to be picked by Port in the draft initially.
But he's embraced the challenge.

[Eastdog]

Congrats to Ollie Wines.

[hujsh]

How’s Dayne Zorko’s form carrying on like a dip shit?… how about not kicking the ball OOF twice in the last 4min to cost your team a finals win you numpty!

What was he doing?

[boydogs]

Great year from Bont. It's odd which players the umpires notice and which they don't, Bont got a lot more recognition than Libba & Macrae and Wines I'm not even sure is the best player at his club let alone in the league

[Twodogs]

Well done to Ollie Wines. I have no problem at all recognising him as a deserving winner of the Brownlow.

[whythelongface]

Great year from Bont. It's odd which players the umpires notice and which they don't, Bont get a lot more recognition than Libba & Macrae and Wines I'm not even sure is the best player at his club let alone in the league

I never understand how it is left to the umpires to vote for the best player. Aren’t they too busy officiating? How do they do their job properly when in the back of their mind they are thinking ‘who is playing well?’ They have enough pressure as is without worrying about having to determine the best three players. God I find it hard enough goal umpiring and voting for the best player in U10s!!! Imagine being a field umpire and doing this. I would rather have an independent panel be responsible for casting votes.

[boydogs]

I never understand how it is left to the umpires to vote for the best player. Aren’t they too busy officiating? How do they do their job properly when in the back of their mind they are thinking ‘who is playing well?’ They have enough pressure as is without worrying about having to determine the best three players. God I find it hard enough goal umpiring and voting for the best player in U10s!!! Imagine being a field umpire and doing this. I would rather have an independent panel be responsible for casting votes.

Yeah I prefer the coaches award, they're the one best positioned to assess who played their role and hurt the opposition, not guys looking for rule infringements

[Mantis]

What was he doing?

Just acting like a tool whenever Jarryd Lyons received votes… it’s any wonder Bris can’t stand up in big moments when their own field leaders act like petulant children.

[Grantysghost]

The voting is so lop sided now. Can't believe Macrae and Libba are podium chances for B&F in a GF team and get no love in the Brownlow.

Carlton is a great example.

Walsh 30.
McKay (Coleman medalist!) 8.

[bornadog]

The voting is so lop sided now. Can't believe Macrae and Libba are podium chances for B&F in a GF team and get no love in the Brownlow.

Carlton is a great example.

Walsh 30.
McKay (Coleman medalist!) 8.

It has become a midfielders medal.

[Grantysghost]

It has become a midfielders medal.

Do you think the AFL need to find a way to award other lines? I get there's the Coleman, not sure there's anything for best defender from the league.

I'd be ok with an awards night that has the best player for each area (mid, def, forward, ruck) and then use a system to determine the overall best player.

Something has to change it's hard to take it seriously, doubt it will ever happen though.

[Ozza]

A lot of sports/leagues around the world have a 'Best Defensive Player' award. That shouldn't be hard to bring in.

For all the media talk about it being a midfielders award - when is the last time a forward or defender got close to winning one of the media awards?

[Testekill]

It's honestly odd that there were a bunch of games where you'd see a player be judged BOG by the coaches and then they don't get a sniff in the votes. Libba in round 9 was a clear BOG but didn't get a vote, Willem Drew was best on in round 19 and didn't get a vote, Aliir was best on in round 22 and didn't get a vote.

[SquirrelGrip]

Players polling 30 votes in the Brownlow Medal
1978-1993: 0
1994-2008: 3
2009-2021: 14

I'm quite comfortable with the final result of this year's Brownlow. The top 3 Wines, Bontempelli and Oliver were the season's three best & most consistent players. Any one of them winning would have been a fair result. Of course, Bont winning would have been the most fair!!

But the change in how many players now poll 30 votes or more since 1994 is concerning. 1994 of course was the year that 3 umpires were introduced, so the votes were then done by committee. Groupthink surely has come into play in the "name" or "popular" players being awarded more votes.

What Is Groupthink?

Groupthink is a phenomenon that occurs when a group of individuals reaches a consensus without critical reasoning or evaluation of the consequences or alternatives. Groupthink is based on a common desire not to upset the balance of a group of people.

This desire creates a dynamic within a group whereby creativity and individuality tend to be stifled in order to avoid conflict.

[Grantysghost]

A lot of sports/leagues around the world have a 'Best Defensive Player' award. That shouldn't be hard to bring in.

For all the media talk about it being a midfielders award - when is the last time a forward or defender got close to winning one of the media awards?

I think the obsession with stats, fantasy football etc etc has really helped construct this idea that more is better.

Keath keeping a Dixon quiet for eg is probably in my eyes equal to 30+ touches for a mid.

4/5 goals from Bruce or Naughton is worth at least the same.

Not sure we can put the genie back in the bottle though and even I get sucked in when doing my votes even though I try not to.

[Murphy'sLore]

There is that stats argument, but then why doesn't Jack Macrae get more votes? I do agree that media buzz must play a part, albeit unconsciously.

[Ozza]

I think the obsession with stats, fantasy football etc etc has really helped construct this idea that more is better.

Keath keeping a Dixon quiet for eg is probably in my eyes equal to 30+ touches for a mid.

4/5 goals from Bruce or Naughton is worth at least the same.

Not sure we can put the genie back in the bottle though and even I get sucked in when doing my votes even though I try not to.

Agree on the Keath & Naughton/Bruce examples

When doing my votes, I think my starting point is my gut feel on the game and how it played out, and then I'll refer to stats to perhaps re-confirm this or maybe choose between players. As far as stats go, I am big on who had score involvements and who had clearances, as these are probably the most impactful stats outside of goals - and not that worried about total disposals.

[Grantysghost]

There is that stats argument, but then why doesn't Jack Macrae get more votes? I do agree that media buzz must play a part, albeit unconsciously.

He's such a quiet achiever isn't he, no frills no lairising just gets it done week after week. You'd think the umpires would be intelligent enough to notice him but clearly not.

[1eyedog]

Weird that Mitchell continually gets noticed but Macrae doesn't.

[SquirrelGrip]

Winner's Brownlow votes by year since 1924.*

https://i.postimg.cc/LX28zHWV/Brownlow-Medal.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

* Divided 1976/77 in 2 when both umpires votes were tallied.