Where does our improvement come from in 2022?

[GVGjr]

You often hear that if aren't improving in the AFL then you are actually going backwards so with that in mind where does our improvement come from in 2022 so that we remain a top 4 team?

For this one I start looking at the back line options:

Backs
During the trade period we added Tim OBrien who probably helps our back line and provides us with a bit more height than our normal approach of playing two talls out of Keath, Gardner and Cordy and asking the likes of Wood, Williams or Crozier to play that 3rd tall defenders role. I think that could be a genuine benefit for us leaving us less exposed when opposition teams load up on taller forwards against us. O'Brien is athletic enough to play on the more mid sized opposition players as well. We also have Schache who could be used to cover any injuries to our taller backs. Khamis, Crozier and Butler round out the coverage for the mid sized defenders.

We lost Wood and Young from the back line options gaining OBrien.

The big question mark is:
We got a lot of drive from Duryea, Williams and Dale and as normal Daniel added a lot of poise to our back line.
With Richards probably also best suited to a role across half back could Daniel or Williams be a chance to move more into midfield duties in 2022?

I'd really appreciate the chance to hear where we might improve our back line results in 2022?

[Bulldog Joe]

I think we improve with the addition of O'Brien as he seems fit for purpose.

A big improvement could come from better availability with Gardner a key as an improver. I also think the development of Schache as an option who can go back improves us.

[GVGjr]

I think we improve with the addition of O'Brien as he seems fit for purpose.

A big improvement could come from better availability with Gardner a key as an improver. I also think the development of Schache as an option who can go back improves us.

Gardner can reach another level and I agree Schache provides us with some depth for the key position options.
O'Brien will be given an extended period to prove his worth.

What I like about our back line is that a number of the players are very good with their kicking skills and we have players capable of taking the game on. Gardner and O'Brien should help us out more when the ball is in the air.

[Twodogs]

I think that we are a better team with Richards' run and carry and McLean's smooth ball handling and disposal. O' Brien will add another player who can defend one on one and intercept which we have been a bit light on for the last couple of seasons. Marra will add some class up forward and I'm hoping that him and Schache can help cover the absence of Bruce who will be a big loss.

Darcy is the big unknown. Will he walk into the team and play some good footy straight away or will he take a season to work his way into senior footy?

[boydogs]

Sweet, Ugle-Hagan and O'Brien could make a big difference

[MrMahatma]

Naughton’s goal kicking.

[Mofra]

I'll admit I'm worried.

I don't know where our improvement comes from. TOB isn't exactly the name that changes an almost list into a premiership list, as canny as his DFA signing was.
Bruce is a big loss, not just the goals but the fact he took the no 1 defender.

The lack of elephant in the room - ruck. We seem to be backing Timmy in which is a very big question mark considering he was our no 2 late last year.
Sweet's played a handful of games at AFL level and his late VFL form was so poor we took a fringe KPD and threw him into the ruck ahead of him, I actually think his reputation here far surpasses anything he has produced or is likely to produce, and Stef is cooked from an on field perspective. We have zero depth there.

Our best bet for improvement is chaos forward of the centre. Most teams defend the high ball well, but with Bruce out all of the guys we rotate int he forwardline are actually very good at ground level - Naughton is better than any KPD on the ground, Cody, Garcia will play and he's a hard nut, Marra is seriously quick, McSteal will get games and is good for a goal + an assist a game just by reading opposition handballs, and Roarke Smith came from nowhere to play very good football at the end of the year. We're going to rotate some serious midfield talent there too - Treloar, Bailey Smith, Bont will rest forward.

You can plan for the high ball (and given Naughton is the best contested marking player in the game, teams will do it) but how do you plan against the chaotic bounce of an oval ball with an A grade midfield running onto it if you manage to scrap it out of the F50?

I don't think we have the personnel changes to improve, we have the potential exploitation of player attributes to bring some improvement. Then we hope like hell our ruck division holds up and we can find a no 2 KPD.

[GVGjr]

Mofra, thanks for the detailed response.

After our triumph in 2016 there was a fair belief that things would just click for us in 2017 and it never happened.
After our terrific season this year I'm just a bit concerned that we didn't chase at least one more experienced player as an insurance.
Can we reach the lofty heights again next year? We all hope so but the we need to get an idea of where that will happen for us.
We need to see growth in a number of the younger players now to maintain the momentum from this year into next.

[Mofra]

Mofra, thanks for the detailed response.

After our triumph in 2016 there was a fair belief that things would just click for us in 2017 and it never happened.
After our terrific season this year I'm just a bit concerned that we didn't chase at least one more experienced player as an insurance.
Can we reach the lofty heights again next year? We all hope so but the we need to get an idea of where that will happen for us.
We need to see growth in a number of the younger players now to maintain the momentum from this year into next.
Well, in terms of GF thumpings you have to go back to 83 to find a team that took the next step.
Yes we were 19 points up in the third, but we got smashed in the ruck, our mids were out of position, and we didn't add any further ruck support, so...

[Vred]

Our major improvement will come, off field, from thew new line coaches.
I pray to god that a coach who was under Mr. Defensive (Lyon) will teach out midfield exactly how to play defensively and stop complete pants-down ownage of clearances.

A new forward coach (maybe a little raw) will hopefully bring some new ideas to the forward line, and teach Naughton how to kick straight.

I can see JUH taking another step, Naughton, JUH and English as our three tall forward for the year until Bruce is back, Naughton to take the number one defender and that leaves JUH and English to do their thing.

Martin/Sweet will rotate games all year, I feel we'll be seeing alot of Sweet considering the club has given him a two year contract, do I think Sweet has the ability to be a better ruck than English with enough time put into him? Yes.

[comrade]

Unfortunately, we missed an opportunity to improve in 2022 by denying Marra and Sweet more playing time this season.

Our ruck situation is diabolical and will stop us from progressing.

[The bulldog tragician]

Unfortunately, we missed an opportunity to improve in 2022 by denying Marra and Sweet more playing time this season.

Our ruck situation is diabolical and will stop us from progressing.
That seems a bit harsh. If we played Marra and Sweet would we have even made the GF? In what they showed, the MC had evidence they weren’t quite ready. We had one hand on a premiership cup half way through the GF so must have been doing a LOT right.

Teams need to improve each year, that’s a given. Melbourne were a different side with continuity which allowed them to devise their extremely effective Lever-May setup.

Sometimes I feel we were so close to winning that match and other times when I think back on it maybe it was only a Herculean effort from Bont that kept us close. We had so few winners, and that’s on more than just our shaky ruck setup.

It’s been miserable and embarrassing seeing Melb fans gloat about the “toilet break minute” where they smashed us so comprehensively. I’d like to think motivation and pride will be an area of improvement for us, because those minutes could and should still be burning in our players minds.

[bornadog]

That seems a bit harsh. If we played Marra and Sweet would we have even made the GF? In what they showed, the MC had evidence they weren’t quite ready. We had one hand on a premiership cup half way through the GF so must have been doing a LOT right.

Teams need to improve each year, that’s a given. Melbourne were a different side with continuity which allowed them to devise their extremely effective Lever-May setup.

Sometimes I feel we were so close to winning that match and other times when I think back on it maybe it was only a Herculean effort from Bont that kept us close. We had so few winners, and that’s on more than just our shaky ruck setup.

It’s been miserable and embarrassing seeing Melb fans gloat about the “toilet break minute” where they smashed us so comprehensively. I’d like to think motivation and pride will be an area of improvement for us, because those minutes could and should still be burning in our players minds.

Good Post.

Mentally we hit the wall, after being locked in hotel rooms for 4 weeks and flying all over the countryside, Melbourne stepped up a notch and mentally it was the last straw. Make no mistake, it is all in the head.

Improvement for 2022 will come from the younger players having more experience - Marra, Weightman, VDM, Garcia, Gardner, Naughton and the addition of O'Brien. Tim with another year under his belt, hopefully a full season of Treloar, Dunks to help in the middle and a more settled backline.

This is not 2017 when we lost experienced GF players and then had to do a mini-rebuild for the following two years.

We have a great list and we will be top 4. We can't be anything less as it takes it's toll as we found out in 2021.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

If we have Melbourne's '21 injury run in '22 and they have ours.
All the improvement needed.

[The bulldog tragician]

Good Post.

Mentally we hit the wall, after being locked in hotel rooms for 4 weeks and flying all over the countryside, Melbourne stepped up a notch and mentally it was the last straw. Make no mistake, it is all in the head.

Improvement for 2022 will come from the younger players having more experience - Marra, Weightman, VDM, Garcia, Gardner, Naughton and the addition of O'Brien. Tim with another year under his belt, hopefully a full season of Treloar, Dunks to help in the middle and a more settled backline.

This is not 2017 when we lost experienced GF players and then had to do a mini-rebuild for the following two years.

We have a great list and we will be top 4. We can't be anything less as it takes it's toll as we found out in 2021.

Additionally, we were top two for almost all the year, stood up mentally in three finals that were each tough and challenging in their own ways.

I was interested (and anxious) about the stat of no side being beaten by so much, bouncing back the next year. While it worries me, I think last year was an extraordinary year and I don't think this was an 'ordinary' 70 point loss. The other blowout GFs if I remember rightly were inferior and overwhelmed sides that were never really in the hunt. I hope that's the case because the idea that, with a champion like Bont in our team and some fantastic young talent, we don't climb the mountain again is really painful.

[comrade]

That seems a bit harsh. If we played Marra and Sweet would we have even made the GF? In what they showed, the MC had evidence they weren’t quite ready. We had one hand on a premiership cup half way through the GF so must have been doing a LOT right.

We played Lewis Young as our ruckman in the last few H&A games and 2 finals. We still would have made the GF with Sweet playing those games, and even better he’d have more experience under his belt heading into 2022 rather than those minutes being pissed away on a bloke that a) isn’t even a ruckman and b) already had a foot out the door.

One of the more baffling MC decisions of the last 5 years.

[jeemak]

We played Lewis Young as our ruckman in the last few H&A games and 2 finals. We still would have made the GF with Sweet playing those games, and even better he’d have more experience under his belt heading into 2022 rather than those minutes being pissed away on a bloke that a) isn’t even a ruckman and b) already had a foot out the door.

One of the more baffling MC decisions of the last 5 years.

So says you. He could have completely shat the bed in all, one or many of those games and you'd be singing a different tune. He was crap in the VFL after he got dropped, why would he have been better and more complimentary to our prospects of winning a flag in 2021 by just having games gifted to him?

He wasn't played, we made a grand final but fell short, it happens. I don't look at the MC and think if they had have just played Jordan Sweet a bit more we'd have been so much better off, this year and next. I don't know how anyone could think that, if that actually is what you're thinking.

[jeemak]

A short answer to the OP, we get better with a bit more experience within the bracket of players 22-39 who carried a huge load this year, hopefully not having to play these players so much, and hopefully from a group of midfielders who may be held accountable for their opponents at stoppages under a new regime.

[jeemak]

So says you. He could have completely shat the bed in all, one or many of those games and you'd be singing a different tune. He was crap in the VFL after he got dropped, why would he have been better and more complimentary to our prospects of winning a flag in 2021 by just having games gifted to him?

He wasn't played, we made a grand final but fell short, it happens. I don't look at the MC and think if they had have just played Jordan Sweet a bit more we'd have been so much better off, this year and next. I don't know how anyone could think that, if that actually is what you're thinking.

Sorry Comrade, that's come off particularly harsh.

[bornadog]

Sorry Comrade, that's come off particularly harsh.

Young was very ordinary in both the finals he played.

[Mofra]

Young was very ordinary in both the finals he played.
He's not a ruckman at AFL level - and our cupboard was so bare we had to try and make him one.

It makes our failure to land a ruck at trade time even more damning.

[bornadog]

He's not a ruckman at AFL level - and our cupboard was so bare we had to try and make him one.

It makes our failure to land a ruck at trade time even more damning.

Agree, I only ever saw him as a backman.

[comrade]

Sorry Comrade, that's come off particularly harsh.

This thread is about improving in 2022.

My point wasn’t that playing Sweet would have improved us in 2021 (though Young was effectively such a non-factor in the ruck that Sweet at his worst wouldn’t have been any sort of downgrade imo).

My point is that playing him instead of Lewis Young would certainly have reaped more benefits for us next year (more AFL experience rather than rotting away in intra scratch matches), I don’t know how anyone could argue against that.

[comrade]

Young was very ordinary in both the finals he played.

He was a complete non-factor. A traffic cone would have had similar output.

[Mofra]

Agree, I only ever saw him as a backman.
Early on he actually played a couple of decent VFL games forward too - one particular game at Williamstown he moved and presented well at CHF and chopped out in the ruck.

He had talent and I wouldn't begrudge him playing a lot of AFL football. I don't think he had that real 'grit' you need to be a KPD though. Keath has it, Cordy has mongrel, and Gardner is a training animal who hates being beaten. Lewy just didn't seem to have quite the same 'hate' of getting beaten.

[westbulldog]

The GF memory of Langdon tearing us to shreds in the last 1/4 and a half with NO competition still haunts. We need speed on the flanks, Garcia, Vandermeer, Treloar, Smith, McNeil.

[Mofra]

The GF memory of Langdon tearing us to shreds in the last 1/4 and a half with NO competition still haunts. We need speed on the flanks, Garcia, Vandermeer, Treloar, Smith, McNeil.
It's not so much speed that is Langdon's go, but endurance. He'd be in the top handful of gut runners in the competition.
We have one player who could possibly run with him, Hunter.

[SquirrelGrip]

Improvement for 2022 will come from the younger players having more experience - Marra, Weightman, VDM, Garcia, Gardner, Naughton and the addition of O'Brien. Tim with another year under his belt, hopefully a full season of Treloar, Dunks to help in the middle and a more settled backline.

And don't forget Bazlenka. He went to an extra level in the finals. Imagine that level coupled with consistency across the season!

[bornadog]

And don't forget Bazlenka. He went to an extra level in the finals. Imagine that level coupled with consistency across the season!

Yes, of course. Just turned 21, so still very young.

[Mofra]

And don't forget Bazlenka. He went to an extra level in the finals. Imagine that level coupled with consistency across the season!
His role seemed to change late in the season which was a big help too?
Perhaps playing him in that high forward - up to the contest - gut run towards goal role will give us an edge during the season.

[The bulldog tragician]

I feel another area of improvement will come if we actually have a VFL competition underway. This will benefit all teams, but we were particularly disadvantaged because of our long injury list. The conversation about whether to play Sweet or Young, or Rhylee West for that matter, would be different if we knew how they were performing at that level, plus there’d be the opportunity for those guys to work on weaknesses or what the match committee asked of them. I don’t think Dunkley or Treloar hit their straps properly either and VFL hit outs would have helped in that cause too.

[Mofra]

I feel another area of improvement will come if we actually have a VFL competition underway. This will benefit all teams, but we were particularly disadvantaged because of our long injury list. The conversation about whether to play Sweet or Young, or Rhylee West for that matter, would be different if we knew how they were performing at that level, plus there’d be the opportunity for those guys to work on weaknesses or what the match committee asked of them. I don’t think Dunkley or Treloar hit their straps properly either and VFL hit outs would have helped in that cause too.
Yes that helps... us, and perhaps everyone else.

[GVGjr]

I feel another area of improvement will come if we actually have a VFL competition underway. This will benefit all teams, but we were particularly disadvantaged because of our long injury list. The conversation about whether to play Sweet or Young, or Rhylee West for that matter, would be different if we knew how they were performing at that level, plus there’d be the opportunity for those guys to work on weaknesses or what the match committee asked of them. I don’t think Dunkley or Treloar hit their straps properly either and VFL hit outs would have helped in that cause too.

We will get improvement from that and you would have to think that applies to most other teams that were prominent in the 8 last year. Port might be the exception

I'm hoping improvement comes from the exposure that the likes of McNeil and Scott had in the seniors and a break out year for Roarke Smith will all start to pay bigger dividends for us.

[Mofra]

We will get improvement from that and you would have to think that applies to most other teams that were prominent in the 8 last year. Port might be the exception

I'm hoping improvement comes from the exposure that the likes of McNeil and Scott had in the seniors and a break out year for Roarke Smith will all start to pay bigger dividends for us.
I'm not sure asking the 17th, 18th, 19th guys selected to be the driver of change and improvement is generally that successful.

If I'm going to pin hope on anyone in the 22 to improve us, there are two players that just have to lift:

1. Dunkley needs to get back to his pre-shoulder injury form. We lost him for a chunk of the year and with his form on return he was probably a bit lucky to keep his spot. His first month or so was sublime, and I expect Libba to be managed through this year. Dunkley has to step up. We know his best is simply outstanding, A-grade good.

2. English. Martin's cooked and Sweet is raw. Our entire list management strategy seems to be 'hope like hell Timmy breaks out' and as much as I think he's a better no 2 ruck, the club don't seem to see it that way.

Cody's interrupted pre-season means he may miss a few games early in the year just as he did in 2021, and Marra will be incredible for us but not in 2022 as he still develops. We had a few players have outstanding years that may not back it up as they had one out of the box (can Libba's body hold up, and can Bailey Dale back it up?)

[Ghost Dog]

I'm not sure asking the 17th, 18th, 19th guys selected to be the driver of change and improvement is generally that successful.

If I'm going to pin hope on anyone in the 22 to improve us, there are two players that just have to lift:

1. Dunkley needs to get back to his pre-shoulder injury form. We lost him for a chunk of the year and with his form on return he was probably a bit lucky to keep his spot. His first month or so was sublime, and I expect Libba to be managed through this year. Dunkley has to step up. We know his best is simply outstanding, A-grade good.

2. English. Martin's cooked and Sweet is raw. Our entire list management strategy seems to be 'hope like hell Timmy breaks out' and as much as I think he's a better no 2 ruck, the club don't seem to see it that way.

Cody's interrupted pre-season means he may miss a few games early in the year just as he did in 2021, and Marra will be incredible for us but not in 2022 as he still develops. We had a few players have outstanding years that may not back it up as they had one out of the box (can Libba's body hold up, and can Bailey Dale back it up?)

Bevo may move some interesting chairs around. Dale to the backline as an example.
Our 2016 premiership team had plenty of those types of moves.

[SonofScray]

Health and durability of the list. A small increase in this department, be it through luck or improved management goes a long way.

The ruck scenario. Either Sweet takes a huge leap, English finds that more consistent, competitive edge or Stef stays fitter for longer.

VDM in and progressing is really important from the perspective of physical, high octane pressure into our forward play. Need to start seeing that brand of footy emerge across more youngsters. Can’t just be Libba holding the rough and tumble side of the game on his shoulders. Laitham can really blaze a trail.

Quick adjustments to tactical changes from the opposition. Can’t have these wild swings in momentum. Cost us a flag.

[Mofra]

Bevo may move some interesting chairs around. Dale to the backline as an example.
Our 2016 premiership team had plenty of those types of moves.
Are there many moves left to make? Our backline is probably more settled now than it has been previously. Perhaps a Richards swap for Doc if Doc cops an injury.
Hunter rotating HF during the finals series was an interesting one. Roarke as a defensive wing might be seen a bit more this year.

[Ghost Dog]

You're a general in an army, outnumbered or outgunned. The only way is to make the most of what you have, one game at a time. Break even or win in each position across the ground.

We are winning in most areas. Ruck is a concern. Have to find a way.

[Mofra]

You're a general in an army, outnumbered or outgunned. The only way is to make the most of what you have, one game at a time. Break even or win in each position across the ground.

We are winning in most areas. Ruck is a concern. Have to find a way.
The history of the 'oblique order' finally overcoming the dominance of the phalanx (which was the military orthodoxy of the time) might be applicable here.

You need to be ahead of the curve in something.
In 2016 we jumped the comp with 'handball club' until the competition caught up.

After that Richmond dumped some talented blokes in the front half for pressure animals, loaded up the backline with a 7 or 8 man defence at times, and jumped the competition.

Hawks previously did it with sublime left-foot kicks.

Where is our advantage? The only real one I can see is a midfield that bats so deep we play 1-2 genuine talents at HF and push them up to the contest (a la Bailey Smith late in the year).

[bornadog]

The history of the 'oblique order' finally overcoming the dominance of the phalanx (which was the military orthodoxy of the time) might be applicable here.

You need to be ahead of the curve in something.
In 2016 we jumped the comp with 'handball club' until the competition caught up.

After that Richmond dumped some talented blokes in the front half for pressure animals, loaded up the backline with a 7 or 8 man defence at times, and jumped the competition.

Hawks previously did it with sublime left-foot kicks.

Where is our advantage? The only real one I can see is a midfield that bats so deep we play 1-2 genuine talents at HF and push them up to the contest (a la Bailey Smith late in the year).

Another advantage we have had is our marking power up forward - thanks to Naughton and Bruce. We have been number one for marks inside 50 with Naughton the king of contested marks.

With Bruce gone we need to make sure anything Naughton doesn't mark, the ball is scraped up by Cody, VDN, McSteel etc.

PS: Bevo has publicly stated, Richmond took our game plan and went one better.

[westbulldog]

It's not so much speed that is Langdon's go, but endurance. He'd be in the top handful of gut runners in the competition.
We have one player who could possibly run with him, Hunter.

Yes you are right about Langdon's gut running but he is also quick imo. My recollection of the GF was that Hunter was going up and down in the one spot while Melbourne tore us apart.

[Go_Dogs]

I’m really intrigued to see how our backline structures up. It’s going to have a different look, and losing the on-field leadership Wood provides is a big one in my book (albeit he wasn’t playing as well as he did in peak years of course).

B: Richards, Keath, Gardner
HB: Dale, O’Brien, Williams

Is probably how I’d go, with Duryea in the starting 22, along with Daniel, who can play through those spots.

If we can get the balance right between shutdown, intercept, field coverage and how we transition, this group has the tools and versatility to be impactful.

Schache the other one I’m really interested in. While his body work isn’t great, he reads the play well, can run all day, and he uses the ball very well for a big man. It would be great to see him given a role down back, but I wonder if he ends up more spare parts than a defined backline role? Bruce injury and likely need for a ~15% second ruck at stages may end up his go.

[GVGjr]

I’m really intrigued to see how our backline structures up. It’s going to have a different look, and losing the on-field leadership Wood provides is a big one in my book (albeit he wasn’t playing as well as he did in peak years of course).

B: Richards, Keath, Gardner
HB: Dale, O’Brien, Williams

Is probably how I’d go, with Duryea in the starting 22, along with Daniel, who can play through those spots.

If we can get the balance right between shutdown, intercept, field coverage and how we transition, this group has the tools and versatility to be impactful.

Schache the other one I’m really interested in. While his body work isn’t great, he reads the play well, can run all day, and he uses the ball very well for a big man. It would be great to see him given a role down back, but I wonder if he ends up more spare parts than a defined backline role? Bruce injury and likely need for a ~15% second ruck at stages may end up his go.

Same here GD, so many genuine options to play in our back 6 or 7 even 8.
How we use O'Brien is the real starting point.
If it's as a 3rd tall then we compromise a bit of run that has been a priority for us over a long time.
If it's more as a 2nd tall then I think if leaves us exposed as being undermanned which would require Williams to play tall again.

I like your back 6 but I don't think Richards plays there at the expense of Duryea or Daniel unless we are intending to move Daniel or even Williams into the midfield. Duryea is the best equipped at manning up against the better genuine opposition smaller forwards.
Cordy and Gardner have a bit to prove and will be fighting it out with O'Brien to fill two spots in partnering Keath.

From a depth perspective we have Crozier, Khamis and Butler around the mark.

[MrMahatma]

Same here GD, so many genuine options to play in our back 6 or 7 even 8.
How we use O'Brien is the real starting point.
If it's as a 3rd tall then we compromise a bit of run that has been a priority for us over a long time.
If it's more as a 2nd tall then I think if leaves us exposed as being undermanned which would require Williams to play tall again.

I like your back 6 but I don't think Richards plays there at the expense of Duryea or Daniel unless we are intending to move Daniel or even Williams into the midfield. Duryea is the best equipped at manning up against the better genuine opposition smaller forwards.
Cordy and Gardner have a bit to prove and will be fighting it out with O'Brien to fill two spots in partnering Keath.

From a depth perspective we have Crozier, Khamis and Butler around the mark.

I think we really need Gardi to come on. He has a lot of attributes and if he can stay on the park he’ll keep getting better. He was much better this season than last, so if he can continue the improvement trend he’ll be a lock 22.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

T
I’m really intrigued to see how our backline structures up. It’s going to have a different look, and losing the on-field leadership Wood provides is a big one in my book (albeit he wasn’t playing as well as he did in peak years of course).

B: Richards, Keath, Gardner
HB: Dale, O’Brien, Williams

Is probably how I’d go, with Duryea in the starting 22, along with Daniel, who can play through those spots.

If we can get the balance right between shutdown, intercept, field coverage and how we transition, this group has the tools and versatility to be impactful.

Schache the other one I’m really interested in. While his body work isn’t great, he reads the play well, can run all day, and he uses the ball very well for a big man. It would be great to see him given a role down back, but I wonder if he ends up more spare parts than a defined backline role? Bruce injury and likely need for a ~15% second ruck at stages may end up his go.
I agree with your thinking on defence. Would like to see Duryea Dunkley and Wallis played as forwards. Our attack was palpably weak in the GF. Also would like to see Daniel move into the midfield where his better disposal would lift our forward line. Wallis to play a tagging role to offset the dominance of Oliver. Prefer to see English as a key forward, with Sweet in the ruck. VDM to play given our lack of leg speed against Melbourne.

[soupman]

Would like to see Duryea Dunkley and Wallis played as forwards.
Very controversial take.

I'd argue Duryea is our most important defender after Keath. Good at all elements of the game (including locking down which most of our other medium guys are so so at) and I suspect is likely to be the one directing our defence now that Wood is gone.

Dunkley I think needs to play midfield, not forward. He is one of our few good mids that works the other way and adds steel there.

Wallis i am meh on, but if you add all those guys forward you are losing one or two of the small quick guys we seem to like which I think is a net loss.

[EasternWest]

Very controversial take.

I'd argue Duryea is our most important defender after Keath. Good at all elements of the game (including locking down which most of our other medium guys are so so at) and I suspect is likely to be the one directing our defence now that Wood is gone.

Dunkley I think needs to play midfield, not forward. He is one of our few good mids that works the other way and adds steel there.

Wallis i am meh on, but if you add all those guys forward you are losing one or two of the small quick guys we seem to like which I think is a net loss.

I'd eat the hat of every person on this board if Duryea went forward.

[MrMahatma]

I'd eat the hat of every person on this board if Duryea went forward.

Because it would make our team worse. As would playing Dunkley fwd.

I’m really hopeful that a new forward coach will have an impact. We have the talent.

[EasternWest]

Because it would make our team worse. As would playing Dunkley fwd.

I’m really hopeful that a new forward coach will have an impact. We have the talent.

Yeah I'm agreeing. No way Duryea goes forward.

[Mantis]

Same here GD, so many genuine options to play in our back 6 or 7 even 8.
How we use O'Brien is the real starting point.
If it's as a 3rd tall then we compromise a bit of run that has been a priority for us over a long time.
If it's more as a 2nd tall then I think if leaves us exposed as being undermanned which would require Williams to play tall again.

I like your back 6 but I don't think Richards plays there at the expense of Duryea or Daniel unless we are intending to move Daniel or even Williams into the midfield. Duryea is the best equipped at manning up against the better genuine opposition smaller forwards.
Cordy and Gardner have a bit to prove and will be fighting it out with O'Brien to fill two spots in partnering Keath.

From a depth perspective we have Crozier, Khamis and Butler around the mark.

If O'Brien replaces Wood from the back 6 do we lose much in the way of run?

[GVGjr]

If O'Brien replaces Wood from the back 6 do we lose much in the way of run?

Probably not but when in a like for like sense but when Wood wasn't playing, and he did miss plenty of football in the last 2 years, our preference was to stick with just 2 talls adding the extra ball carrier.

[Mofra]

Same here GD, so many genuine options to play in our back 6 or 7 even 8.
How we use O'Brien is the real starting point.
We're been pretty open about earmarking him in the 'intercept marking role' across HB which I think we can do.
We play a 7th rotating running defender on the bench too, so I'm guessing we'll look something like:

Duryea, Keath, Williams
Dale, Gardner, TOB

Bench: Richards

* I suspect Caleb is a 'utility bench' option who plays where ever we need him.

[Axe Man]

I'd eat the hat of every person on this board if Duryea went forward.

Oh please Bevo make the move!

https://i.postimg.cc/c40dtwPp/hats.jpg (https://postimg.cc/QV42R98m)

[EasternWest]

Oh please Bevo make the move!

https://i.postimg.cc/c40dtwPp/hats.jpg (https://postimg.cc/QV42R98m)

I'd need to see his woof certification status before confirming he's a member of this board.

Though in my mind's eye, when I think of twodogs that's who I see.

[dog town]

Same here GD, so many genuine options to play in our back 6 or 7 even 8.
How we use O'Brien is the real starting point.
If it's as a 3rd tall then we compromise a bit of run that has been a priority for us over a long time.
If it's more as a 2nd tall then I think if leaves us exposed as being undermanned which would require Williams to play tall again.

I like your back 6 but I don't think Richards plays there at the expense of Duryea or Daniel unless we are intending to move Daniel or even Williams into the midfield. Duryea is the best equipped at manning up against the better genuine opposition smaller forwards.
Cordy and Gardner have a bit to prove and will be fighting it out with O'Brien to fill two spots in partnering Keath.

From a depth perspective we have Crozier, Khamis and Butler around the mark. Schache is being planned as a defender for 2022. Can change obviously but at the moment they want him training as a back with a view to locking down a position there.

Mail is very reliable.

[jeemak]

Oh please Bevo make the move!

https://i.postimg.cc/c40dtwPp/hats.jpg (https://postimg.cc/QV42R98m)


I'd need to see his woof certification status before confirming he's a member of this board.

Though in my mind's eye, when I think of twodogs that's who I see.

No need, that's El Woofo himself!

[GVGjr]

Schache is being planned as a defender for 2022. Can change obviously but at the moment they want him training as a back with a view to locking down a position there.

Mail is very reliable.

Thanks DT, with Bruce out we must be 'chips' in with JUH and English as key forwards along with Naughton

[GVGjr]

Lets have a look at the forward line, with so many mids also playing forward

The first choice forwards, excluding the injured Bruce and McLean, will probably consists of Naughton, English, Ugle-Hagan, Hannan, Baz Smith, Weightman, Vandermeer and Johannisen with the likes of Schache, Wallis, Garcia, McNeil and West providing depth.
Dunkley and Bontempelli with the other mids will also spend a lot of game time in the forward line.

So plenty of options but where does the improvement come from? What will give us an edge?

[SonofScray]

Thanks DT, with Bruce out we must be 'chips' in with JUH and English as key forwards along with Naughton

I'm pretty comfortable with that. JUH I think showed that f he can get it, he has an impact and hit the scoreboard, even with a relatively small amount of opportunity. So long as we have some real grinders, meat and potatoes and pace at the fall of the ball, this combo feels right to me.

[jeemak]

Yeah I'm agreeing. No way Duryea goes forward.

MrMahatma must have thought that you really like hats.

[Go_Dogs]

Forward line improvement comes from Naughts kicking a bit straighter, Marra getting more game time, and English continuing to build his forward craft.

We need more speed in the front half still - JJ and Baz help, I wonder if Dom or someone else also finds a place?

Garcia and McNeil the other two I’m interested to see how high their ceiling is and how quickly they can get to it. Both added a bit at various stages but need to add a few more strings to become career players.

[jeemak]

I'm not particularly worried about our forward half. They can score if we give them the footy enough. There's no doubt we can be better if players capitlise on opportunities more, and some players get involved more thoroughly.

What I really hope to see is our defencive unit take a step up with some maturity/ experience into Gardner, Williams and Dale, and a different mindset and approach/ mix to our cookie cutter midfield who are all really good when it's going their way but not so great if it isn't.

[azabob]

I'm not particularly worried about our forward half. They can score if we give them the footy enough. There's no doubt we can be better if players capitlise on opportunities more, and some players get involved more thoroughly.

What I really hope to see is our defencive unit take a step up with some maturity/ experience into Gardner, Williams and Dale, and a different mindset and approach/ mix to our cookie cutter midfield who are all really good when it's going their way but not so great if it isn't.

I'm worried Dale will regress into old habits. He wasn't great in a couple of games against Melbourne and fluffed his lines a number of times especially early.

With the midfield I'm unsure how you change the mindset, especially if by all accounts we are not going to review the 3rd quarter onslaught in the GF.

It is really hard to be enthused with 2022 considering how we ended 2021 on such an embarrassing note - and we will continued to be reminded of it during 2022.

[EasternWest]

It is really hard to be enthused with 2022 considering how we ended 2021 on such an embarrassing note - and we will continued to be reminded of it during 2022.

Come on aza, this doesn't sound like you.

We had a solid to great year in trying circumstances, made a grand final (which ten years ago we would have sold our grandmothers just to achieve) and were a goal or two from running away with it.

Yeah from that point on we were summarily outplayed but I would hope the feeling of being so close and still so far would burn in our players.

I'm the opposite of you. I'm optimistic about this year.

[Bulldog Joe]

Come on aza, this doesn't sound like you.

We had a solid to great year in trying circumstances, made a grand final (which ten years ago we would have sold our grandmothers just to achieve) and were a goal or two from running away with it.

Yeah from that point on we were summarily outplayed but I would hope the feeling of being so close and still so far would burn in our players.

I'm the opposite of you. I'm optimistic about this year.

I am also optimistic. The one thing I am certain of is that the captain is always seeking to improve and I am sure there will be more than a few players following his example.

[bornadog]

Come on aza, this doesn't sound like you.

We had a solid to great year in trying circumstances, made a grand final (which ten years ago we would have sold our grandmothers just to achieve) and were a goal or two from running away with it.

Yeah from that point on we were summarily outplayed but I would hope the feeling of being so close and still so far would burn in our players.

I'm the opposite of you. I'm optimistic about this year.

Excellent stuff EW, I am with you all the way.

[jeemak]

Jesus Aza. We dug deep with a young group to make a grand final against pretty tough odds, and came up against an opponent that had more tickets, were more settled and played out of their skins on the day.

I reckon with some things going our way we have a bit to look forward to.

[Bulldog4life]

Just finished watching again the finals match against Brisbane. What a game. Great finish....well for us anyway.

[dukedog]

Well, in terms of GF thumpings you have to go back to 83 to find a team that took the next step.
Yes we were 19 points up in the third, but we got smashed in the ruck, our mids were out of position, and we didn't add any further ruck support, so...


2007 Grandfinal

Geelong / Port ?

[Mofra]

2007 Grandfinal

Geelong / Port ?
Port Adelaide missed the finals in 2008.
That's why you have to go back to 1983 - teams that get smashed in Grand Finals generally regress (badly) the following season.

[Bulldog4life]

Port Adelaide missed the finals in 2008.
That's why you have to go back to 1983 - teams that get smashed in Grand Finals generally regress (badly) the following season.

That's just another record the doggies can break.

[MrMahatma]

That's just another record the doggies can break.

Yeah... I mean, we only regress badly when we WIN GFs... getting pumped almost guarantees us this year's flag!

[Bulldog Joe]

Yeah... I mean, we only regress badly when we WIN GFs... getting pumped almost guarantees us this year's flag!

I wouldn't be looking to history as a guide for us. It is not pretty.

After previous GF loss it took another 55 years to get to another GF.

That is not history to repeat.

[Mofra]

I wouldn't be looking to history as a guide for us. It is not pretty.

After previous GF loss it took another 55 years to get to another GF.

That is not history to repeat.
If Bevo coaches us to a finals victory this season, that means he'll have coached 8 of 15 finals wins in our VFL/AFL history. I'm not sure any other coach (apart from expansion sides) can boast anything like that record.

I criticise some aspects of Bevo too but let's not forget he's the greatest coach in our history and will absolutely retire as an icon of the club. If any team can defy history, it's going to be one coached by Bevo.

[Prince Imperial]

If Bevo coaches us to a finals victory this season, that means he'll have coached 8 of 15 finals wins in our VFL/AFL history. I'm not sure any other coach (apart from expansion sides) can boast anything like that record.

We've actually won 21 finals, but yes it is still a big chunk.

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/coaches/bullldogs.html

[bornadog]

We've actually won 21 finals, but yes it is still a big chunk.

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/coaches/bullldogs.html

Thanks

I see Bevo has had us in 11 finals and won 7.

[Axe Man]

Thanks

I see Bevo has had us in 11 finals and won 7.

About to become our second longest serving (in games) coach after EJ too. Is still 68 games behind Ted but has coached 1 more win.

[bornadog]

About to become our second longest serving (in games) coach after EJ too. Is still 68 games behind Ted but has coached 1 more win.

Bevo - 57.05% winning record.

Poor EJ, went through a very bleak period.

[Axe Man]

57.05% winning record.

Only the fourth best, bloody hopeless. ;)

[AshMac]

Late to this thread and havent read all posts.

I reckon this year we’ll see an improvement in Roarke Smith. There was something about hum tail end of last year and im quietly confident he can continue. Gardner will continue getting better - Ryan Hargrave v2.

Unforts im not so optimistic about Tim English.

[Bulldog4life]

Late to this thread and havent read all posts.

I reckon this year we’ll see an improvement in Roarke Smith. There was something about hum tail end of last year and im quietly confident he can continue. Gardner will continue getting better - Ryan Hargrave v2.

Unforts im not so optimistic about Tim English.

I have the opposite view.

[Grantysghost]

I have the opposite view.

I thought he at least held his own v McInerney and Fort plus did some nice stuff around the ground.
Couple of good strong marks and was a link man in some forward thrusts.
Not bad signs for me.

Edit : Hitout stats weren't amazing (12) hopefully he can improve on that.

[comrade]

English was good last night, thought he was positioned well at throw ins and didn’t get outmuscled and allow the opposition ruck to just grab the ball out of the ruck.

Our forward line is a disaster, though.

[Go_Dogs]

English was good last night, thought he was positioned well at throw ins and didn’t get outmuscled and allow the opposition ruck to just grab the ball out of the ruck.

Our forward line is a disaster, though.

That we played Bont forward shows why the Cordy experiment is going to be one we (perhaps unfortunately) have to persist with throughout 2022. At least until we’re confident that a JUH/Hannan combo can get it done alongside Naughts.

I’m also going to put a few $ on Naughts to win the Coleman because he is looking incredible.

[comrade]

That we played Bont forward shows why the Cordy experiment is going to be one we (perhaps unfortunately) have to persist with throughout 2022. At least until we’re confident that a JUH/Hannan combo can get it done alongside Naughts.

I’m also going to put a few $ on Naughts to win the Coleman because he is looking incredible.

Even with his wonky kicking, if he stays fit Naughton should kick 60+ with the amount of supply he’ll be getting. There’ll be some monster games from him.

[jeemak]

I think we'll see Schache forward this year with Naughton, and the backline will revert to a mix of Keath, Cordy, O'Brien when fit, and Gardner.

When Stef is rucking we'll see Tim forward and Schache swing, which I'm fine with.

The forward line looks like it is in trouble, but it's also the forward line that got us to a Grand Final. It might take a few weeks to start humming along again, but I'm confident/ hopeful it will work itself out remembering we have a new coach in the mix.

[bornadog]

I thought he at least held his own v McInerney and Fort plus did some nice stuff around the ground.
Couple of good strong marks and was a link man in some forward thrusts.
Not bad signs for me.

Edit : Hitout stats weren't amazing (12) hopefully he can improve on that.

I thought more importantly he was good around the ground picking up 8 marks and 21 disposals

[Go_Dogs]

I think we'll see Schache forward this year with Naughton, and the backline will revert to a mix of Keath, Cordy, O'Brien when fit, and Gardner.

When Stef is rucking we'll see Tim forward and Schache swing, which I'm fine with.

The forward line looks like it is in trouble, but it's also the forward line that got us to a Grand Final. It might take a few weeks to start humming along again, but I'm confident/ hopeful it will work itself out remembering we have a new coach in the mix.

Agree - the pieces are there. We just need consistency from a few, and a few others to take steps. Our smalls and midfielders will be our point of difference. Cody, VDM, JJ can be a strong combo, maybe McComb too. Then add Bont, Smith, Treloar etc kicking goals. We have the firepower for sure - it’s just that JUH/Hannan/Cordy player alongside our resting ruck we need hitting.

Personally I’d like Schache to stay back. We need one more really good key defender and he’s got the potential to complement Keath, with Gardner / O’Brien able to play more third tall roles.

[jeemak]

Agree - the pieces are there. We just need consistency from a few, and a few others to take steps. Our smalls and midfielders will be our point of difference. Cody, VDM, JJ can be a strong combo, maybe McComb too. Then add Bont, Smith, Treloar etc kicking goals. We have the firepower for sure - it’s just that JUH/Hannan/Cordy player alongside our resting ruck we need hitting.

Personally I’d like Schache to stay back. We need one more really good key defender and he’s got the potential to complement Keath, with Gardner / O’Brien able to play more third tall roles.

I guess I'm thinking that we need to lend Naughton a hand and Schache has proven he can kick goals, albeit often with some serious lapses in competitiveness.

The point you make regarding another genuine tall being needed to help Keath, though I guess I'm hoping Gardner can continue his rate of improvement to take on that second KPD role leaving O'Brien and Cordy to play the third/ support roles.

[Bulldog4life]

We definitely need another key forward. Schache or O'Brien for mine.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I like the idea of Schache back, but the more I look at our structure, the more I'm convinced we need him forward.

We have a lot of forwards who like to jump - Naughton, Hannan, Weightman. We don't have many who crumb (JJ is improving) or lead (Bruce is a huge out). Schache proved in last year's finals series he can stick to a defensive minded role v the best intercept defenders, which is important in big games. We also know he can present an option on the lead.

With Keath, Gardner, O'Brien and Cordy I think that's enough defensive cover (albeit it is shaky).

[ratsmac]

We definitely need another key forward. Schache or O'Brien for mine.

Agreed but in the interim we need to have a better plan of bringing the ball in and forward craft. There were occasions the other night against Brisbane where Naughton was up against 3 defenders and we still popped it high to him hoping that he'll take the mark (even though he is more than capable). Lower the eyes and look for the spare.

I'm no coach but I see that our forward line congested most of the time. Obviously this is the defensive tactic used to limit our scoring and we do it as well. But why do we also congest our own forward line. If we push our numbers forward, naturally our opponents follow them in. If we don't press so high we give ourselves some space and we also wont be so susceptible to a counter attack and get scored over the back. If our backline was our strength yeah press a little higher, but its not. However, I reiterate that I'm no coach or tactician and these are novice opinions from my couch!

[GVGjr]

I like the idea of Schache back, but the more I look at our structure, the more I'm convinced we need him forward.

We have a lot of forwards who like to jump - Naughton, Hannan, Weightman. We don't have many who crumb (JJ is improving) or lead (Bruce is a huge out). Schache proved in last year's finals series he can stick to a defensive minded role v the best intercept defenders, which is important in big games. We also know he can present an option on the lead.

With Keath, Gardner, O'Brien and Cordy I think that's enough defensive cover (albeit it is shaky).

I think it's probably the best suggestion while we don't have Bruce but it all might hinge on O'Brien's availability.
In the first two games both Melbourne and Carlton have key forwards who can test us.

[Go_Dogs]

I like the idea of Schache back, but the more I look at our structure, the more I'm convinced we need him forward.

We have a lot of forwards who like to jump - Naughton, Hannan, Weightman. We don't have many who crumb (JJ is improving) or lead (Bruce is a huge out). Schache proved in last year's finals series he can stick to a defensive minded role v the best intercept defenders, which is important in big games. We also know he can present an option on the lead.

With Keath, Gardner, O'Brien and Cordy I think that's enough defensive cover (albeit it is shaky).

Schache could be a 100+ game defender for us though, not confident saying that about any of the others.

It’s a tough one because our forward structure looked one dimensional so far, however English is a natural on the lead and so is Cody, who despite his size plays more like a medium forward.

I’d rather sure up our back six and win with weight of numbers / midfielders kicking goals than ruin our best chance to develop a strong backline built on 2 key position players who can run, jump and kick.

[bornadog]

There were occasions the other night against Brisbane where Naughton was up against 3 defenders

One of my biggest criticism's of Naughton is he doesn't lead enough to get away from the defenders. Maybe the forward line is too congested to lead? I don't know, but he can't expect to take the big speccy every time. He needs to move around alot more.

[jeemak]

One of my biggest criticism's of Naughton is he doesn't lead enough to get away from the defenders. Maybe the forward line is too congested to lead? I don't know, but he can't expect to take the big speccy every time. He needs to move around alot more.

Interesting, the commentators on Friday were lauding his repeat leading.

I have barely seen him play forward live, so I don't really know what he does.

[GVGjr]

One of my biggest criticism's of Naughton is he doesn't lead enough to get away from the defenders. Maybe the forward line is too congested to lead? I don't know, but he can't expect to take the big speccy every time. He needs to move around alot more.

He spilled a couple of marks on the lead due to what appeared to be because he rushed the contest. He needs to lead more than just rely on his pack marking exciting as it is.

[bornadog]

Interesting, the commentators on Friday were lauding his repeat leading.

I have barely seen him play forward live, so I don't really know what he does.

I guess I am basing my observations on last year.

Bruce is a great lead, and maybe the plan last year was Bruce to lead, and Naughton stay deep. We need to figure this out for this year.

[mjp]

I like the idea of Schache back, but the more I look at our structure, the more I'm convinced we need him forward.


I don't think it is rocket science.

Naughton and Schache forward with (take your pick) from JUH, Hannan, Cordy or O'Brien for 3rd tall support.
Keath and Gardner back with (take your pick) from Cordy or O'Brien for defensive marking support.

With Bruce out this just seems so simple to me right now. With Cordy, he's an effort based player so I could care less if he plays forward or back. I think Martin forward is foolish but English is a nice forward wild-card. I *COULD* get behind English and Naughton forward with Schache and Keath back (Gardner in support) IF we think Martin or Sweet can play ruck for 'most' of the game. I personally don't but if they can, that works.

In that scenario, Martin/Sweet rest ON THE BENCH - NOT in the forward line.

On a positive note, JJ seems to be getting the hang of playing forward, Weightman is down there...Adding another couple of scrappers to the mix is probably not what I would like but - given the volume of entries we are getting, should be enough. Simply can't have anyone who lacks leg speed or cannot apply pressure.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

One of my biggest criticism's of Naughton is he doesn't lead enough to get away from the defenders. Maybe the forward line is too congested to lead? I don't know, but he can't expect to take the big speccy every time. He needs to move around alot more.

Naughton’s best football was played when Bruce was playing who became our best goal kicker.
We need English to become our second key forward before Bruce returns.

[jeemak]

I don't think it is rocket science.

Naughton and Schache forward with (take your pick) from JUH, Hannan, Cordy or O'Brien for 3rd tall support.
Keath and Gardner back with (take your pick) from Cordy or O'Brien for defensive marking support.

With Bruce out this just seems so simple to me right now. With Cordy, he's an effort based player so I could care less if he plays forward or back. I think Martin forward is foolish but English is a nice forward wild-card. I *COULD* get behind English and Naughton forward with Schache and Keath back (Gardner in support) IF we think Martin or Sweet can play ruck for 'most' of the game. I personally don't but if they can, that works.

In that scenario, Martin/Sweet rest ON THE BENCH - NOT in the forward line.

On a positive note, JJ seems to be getting the hang of playing forward, Weightman is down there...Adding another couple of scrappers to the mix is probably not what I would like but - given the volume of entries we are getting, should be enough. Simply can't have anyone who lacks leg speed or cannot apply pressure.

Yeah, what Jeemak said!

Well not quite, you did call out O'Brien and Cordy as being potential forward players and I don't think that should happen - but it might. The reason I don't think it should happen is because I think we are at a point in our development where we know what we are and need to start being as predictable and tight as we can. Sure, day by day, week by week circumstances present themselves and need to be adapted to but I think we know where everyone best fits now.

Bruce being out forces our hand a bit with Schache who is an unknown in defence, but a relative known as a forward. To me he is the most logical replacement for Bruce because he can cover a lot of ground and can get on the end of a few and finish well.

All feedback I've had from Hawks supporters is consistent in that they think O'Brien just needs to be played behind the footy. I agree Cordy is an effort player and that's why I like him ready to be put into the backline if a couple of others aren't doing what they should be doing. We know Cordy will try, and can tackle. He has his downsides but I think they're exaggerated around here, and we sometimes forget that AFL forwards are hard to defend and teams are good at getting the footy into their hands (if it wasn't that way no goals would be kicked).

Agree with your comments on JJ. He just needs to make sure he chases and chases game in and game out, not sporadically. I worry about VDM, but absolutely love Weightman who was really trying to do the right things Friday but was clearly behind in his preparation.

[azabob]

What makes posters thinks Schache can now play as a forward?

[GVGjr]

What makes posters thinks Schache can now play as a forward?

His form last season was OK. Playing a season as a defender might be good for his development but we do have a gap up forward at the moment.

[Mantis]

That we played Bont forward shows why the Cordy experiment is going to be one we (perhaps unfortunately) have to persist with throughout 2022. At least until we’re confident that a JUH/Hannan combo can get it done alongside Naughts.



What does Cordy offer as a forward? Besides giving a contest.

[soupman]

What does Cordy offer as a forward? Besides giving a contest.

He offers a scenario where he is not giving away frees in defence.

[comrade]

So have we worked out where the improvement is coming from?

[Mantis]

So have we worked out where the improvement is coming from?

Naughton will improve… hopefully no long term injuries to key midfielders which impeded us last year.

It’s a long season so I’m sure other players will stand up as we get going, but it does look like we’re going with the the ‘trusted’ players to start the season.

[westbulldog]

Imo our improvement will hopefully come from Ugle-Hagan and Sweet stepping up, it will not come persisting with Hannan and Cordy in the top 22. Gardner, who inexplicably sat out the 2021 GF, and O'Brien are better defenders than Cordy and, take your pick of Wallis, West, Bedendo, Scott or Garcia over Hannan.

[Mofra]

Imo our improvement will hopefully come from Ugle-Hagan and Sweet stepping up, it will not come persisting with Hannan and Cordy in the top 22. Gardner, who inexplicably sat out the 2021 GF, and O'Brien are better defenders than Cordy and, take your pick of Wallis, West, Bedendo, Scott or Garcia over Hannan.
Hannan is the best 'blocker' on our list and played pretty well in our first praccy game.
Is he going to be our no 1 whipping boy in2022?

[Mofra]

So have we worked out where the improvement is coming from?
English?
If he gets back to anything like the 'pre-Naughton knee' form that will help us.
I see real worrying signs with Stef.

[comrade]

English?
If he gets back to anything like the 'pre-Naughton knee' form that will help us.
I see real worrying signs with Stef.

I was impressed with Timmy’s game against Brisbane. I’m not convinced he’ll ever be physical enough to overcome the best rucks in the league but Round 1 will tell us a lot.

Stef is 100% cooked. Surely the coaches know it which makes you wonder about how far off Sweet actually is in their thinking.

[Grantysghost]

Hannan is the best 'blocker' on our list and played pretty well in our first praccy game.
Is he going to be our no 1 whipping boy in2022?

You're damn right he is. FWIW I like what he brings when he doesn't have the ball as you've alluded to and he tends to get on the end of a few so I'm ok with his unique role in the side.

[MrMahatma]

Hannan is the best 'blocker' on our list and played pretty well in our first praccy game.
Is he going to be our no 1 whipping boy in2022?

There's a poll in that!

Hannan, Cordy, Crozier... there were a few whipsters on display on Friday night!

[soupman]

I think if our forwardline can take another step thats where the big improvement can come from.

Going into last year Bruce was the only real proven effective forward.

Post 2021 Weightman has gone from unconvincing prospect to someone who has shown an ability to impact games. Hannan finally seemed to figure out his role by late season and will hopefully continue doing this (thought he was good against Essendon in this role). Naughton's goalkicking appears to have improved and should be aiming for a 60 goal season. English has shown he can be an effective member up forward. JJ after a whole year of being ineffective seems to have got his shit together.

If that group can consolidate and improve on 2021 then we will be much better positioned considering the sheer weight of inside 50s we generate.

[AshMac]

i prefer schache in the backline. He doesnt have what it takes to play forward and looks completely outmanned in one on one contests and lost when the ball is in dispute. O'Brien thows a spanner in as he is the second tall back. As a forward schache will play some good games against lesser teams and people will get excited but agains tthe good teams - and when it matters most in finals i just dont think he has what it takes.

[soupman]

I think he can get away with his lack of intensity and aggression most in the backline, which is to say he has proven he is not capable of overcoming those weaknesses in the ruck or forwardline and defence is all that's left.

Tbf to him he had a decent finals series forward but that is clearly the anomaly in his career.

[AshMac]

the lack of intensity I can handle but for a god damn no. 2 draft pick he has zero footy intelligence and just looks completely lost out there 60% of the time