Bailey Smith vs Sam Walsh - 2022 edition [Archive]

GVGjr

12-02-2022, 06:24 PM

Who is the best mid from the 2018 draft?

A couple of years after that draft, Walsh shaded Smith but what about now?

Smith had a cracker of a finals season last year, in contrast to Walsh. :)

How do you compare their 2021 seasons and how will they rate in 2022?

I've seen a few articles that 're-draft' the 2018 draft and Walsh is always the consensus pick.
Smith has been brilliant but taking away the bias I have to concede Walsh has been the pick of them.

I thought Jack Lukosius was the best of the players prior to the draft but he will need some more time to see where he really is.

Smith probably rates between 2 and 4 at the moment out of the 2018 draft.

The Underdog

12-02-2022, 07:23 PM

Yep, Smith has been an outstanding get for us at 7, but Walsh is a better player and barring injury, already looks an absolutely elite footballer with a very high ceiling.

Twodogs

12-02-2022, 07:39 PM

Walsh is a terrific footballer although Smith's skillset with his goalkicking ability and love of the big stage fits our team pretty well at the moment. If we were in the schoolyard and they were standing up against the wall and it was my pick I would have to think about my choice.

Dry Rot

12-02-2022, 08:13 PM

I thought Jack Lukosius was the best of the players prior to the draft but he will need some more time to see where he really is.

What's happening with Lukosius? He seems to have fallen off the radar.

Is his best position forward or back?

soupman

12-02-2022, 08:30 PM

What's happening with Lukosius? He seems to have fallen off the radar.

Is his best position forward or back?

Rakey tall which takes longer, and has been playing as a wing/distributor from half back due to his awesome kick. I believe the plan was for him to play key forward this year but with Ben King going down that has become both harder and more important for team prospects.

Honestly he has been really good, just off broadway compared to Walsh and Smith (and Rozee I guess) and hasn't been playing as impressive a spot as Ben King.

Is very different to say Rankine who's career is still trying to take off in a meaningful way.

soupman

12-02-2022, 08:35 PM

Grantysghost

12-02-2022, 09:11 PM

Walsh is awesome and genuinely could be top 5 players in the comp.

Without getting into the whole "Bailey Smith would be just as good if he was at Carlton" I wonder how much being at a club with clear air both in terms of having no star in his way and the club needing someone to stand up has accelerated his development.

From everything I have heard Walsh is super professional in every regard so I expect he would be a star here as well obviously, but how big a difference does playing at a club where the only competition you have for that role is an injured Cripps, a pudgy Zac Williams and Ed Curnow, vs being in a squad where to even get midfield time you have to beat out Bontempelli, Macrae and Treloar.

It's a good point I hadn't really considered. I guess you could argue it might help to have all those stars around from a teaching sense?

But certainly an interesting point. I thought in his second year Walsh was average and I was wondering what all the fuss was about.
Last season he was just a stand out in most Blues game I watched (handful).

GVGjr

12-02-2022, 09:22 PM

What's happening with Lukosius? He seems to have fallen off the radar.

Is his best position forward or back?

I think he will move forward with King injured but he is probably better suited to being a 3rd tall defender
He might also play in the midfield

Testekill

13-02-2022, 11:18 AM

Walsh is better but we've seen countless times that a young champion can only carry a team for so long until his body breaks down, hell his captain is one example.

chef

13-02-2022, 03:54 PM

Walsh is miles in front realistically. He's a top 5 player in the comp. And no shame on Bailey for that.

The Underdog

13-02-2022, 05:10 PM

Walsh is miles in front realistically. He's a top 5 player in the comp. And no shame on Bailey for that.

Yeah, this isn't a referendum on Bailey. He's been everything we could have asked for and more. Just because Walsh is unbelievable at this point, doesn't mean Smith hasn't been brilliant. The fact is, we were never getting the best player in the draft, but we sure as hell got the best player we could have at that pick (in my opinion)

ratsmac

13-02-2022, 05:15 PM

Walsh is miles in front realistically. He's a top 5 player in the comp. And no shame on Bailey for that.

I wouldn't say miles in front talent wise but maybe consistency. Walsh was so consistent last year whereas Smith struggled mid season but brought it when finals came around

GVGjr

13-02-2022, 05:47 PM

Yeah, this isn't a referendum on Bailey. He's been everything we could have asked for and more. Just because Walsh is unbelievable at this point, doesn't mean Smith hasn't been brilliant. The fact is, we were never getting the best player in the draft, but we sure as hell got the best player we could have at that pick (in my opinion)

If Smith ends up being regarded as the 2nd, 3rd of 4th best in that draft it's still very high praise.

I like the explosive and burst pace that Smith brings us. In a team that isn't overly quick that is his real point of difference.
If we can get him and Treloar firing this year we are going to be hard to match in the midfield.

The Underdog

13-02-2022, 06:10 PM

If Smith ends up being regarded as the 2nd, 3rd of 4th best in that draft it's still very high praise.

I like the explosive and burst pace that Smith brings us. In a team that isn't overly quick that is his real point of difference.
If we can get him and Treloar firing this year we are going to be hard to match in the midfield.

Yep. He brings an element to our midfield that we’re short of, so is possibly more valuable to us on that sense than Walsh would be.

mjp

13-02-2022, 07:34 PM

Yep, Smith has been an outstanding get for us at 7, but Walsh is a better player and barring injury, already looks an absolutely elite footballer with a very high ceiling.

When Walsh kicks two goals - one on his left and one on his right - in the last 5 minutes of a cut throat prelim final, well, when he does that I’ll maybe agree with you. Getting 35 possessions in games that don’t matter doesn’t impress me all that much. It might not be his fault (I grant you that) but we know one of them has the fight and skill to make a difference when it matters...the other one? We can only guess.

Go_Dogs

13-02-2022, 09:21 PM

When Walsh kicks two goals - one on his left and one on his right - in the last 5 minutes of a cut throat prelim final, well, when he does that I’ll maybe agree with you. Getting 35 possessions in games that don’t matter doesn’t impress me all that much. It might not be his fault (I grant you that) but we know one of them has the fight and skill to make a difference when it matters...the other one? We can only guess.

Yeah, not quite sure re gushing over Walsh. He’s a good player no doubt but there are better midfielders at most clubs and Smith has demonstrated he’s a big time big game player capable of kicking multiple goals.

jeemak

13-02-2022, 09:44 PM

When Walsh kicks two goals - one on his left and one on his right - in the last 5 minutes of a cut throat prelim final, well, when he does that I’ll maybe agree with you. Getting 35 possessions in games that don’t matter doesn’t impress me all that much. It might not be his fault (I grant you that) but we know one of them has the fight and skill to make a difference when it matters...the other one? We can only guess.

That's kind of where I was going with my post. They have had different opportunities throughout their careers, through no fault of their own and what we've seen is Walsh using his as well as he possibly could and Smith doing the same.

jeemak

13-02-2022, 09:45 PM

Yeah, not quite sure re gushing over Walsh. He’s a good player no doubt but there are better midfielders at most clubs and Smith has demonstrated he’s a big time big game player capable of kicking multiple goals.

I have very little doubt in my mind that Walsh could be a player who grabs an important final by the throat, dominate the middle and contribute on the scoreboard.

Grantysghost

13-02-2022, 10:00 PM

That's kind of where I was going with my post. They have had different opportunities throughout their careers, through no fault of their own and what we've seen is Walsh using his as well as he possibly could and Smith doing the same.

I guess that's an age old argument, exposure to finals etc the old Grant v Hird. Being in a good v bad side.

Grant doesn't get the same recognition because he didn't get the opportunity at the pointy end.

Maybe Walsh will never play in a GF or do what Bailey did so I'm not sure it's the best gauge of their comparative ability.

I get the argument for Bailey though, and comparing players is fun but sometimes it's ok to realise they're both bloody good! xD

Grantysghost

13-02-2022, 10:06 PM

Yeah, not quite sure re gushing over Walsh. He’s a good player no doubt but there are better midfielders at most clubs and Smith has demonstrated he’s a big time big game player capable of kicking multiple goals.

He came fourth in the Brownlow, won Carlton's B and F, was All Australian and 6th in the coaches award last season.

Kind of gushable for a third year player ;)

GVGjr

14-02-2022, 12:16 AM

Yeah, not quite sure re gushing over Walsh. He’s a good player no doubt but there are better midfielders at most clubs and Smith has demonstrated he’s a big time big game player capable of kicking multiple goals.

So we are prepared to throw aside Walsh's achievements because his team hasn't played finals?
4th in last season Brownlow was an incredible achievement.

chef

14-02-2022, 07:46 AM

He came fourth in the Brownlow, won Carlton's B and F, was All Australian and 6th in the coaches award last season.

Kind of gushable for a third year player ;)

Yeah the only player better than Walsh on our list imo is the Bont. He is a super footballer.

I remember a few on here wanted Smith dropped and traded during last season.

comrade

14-02-2022, 09:13 AM

Yeah the only player better than Walsh on our list imo is the Bont. He is a super footballer.

I remember a few on here wanted Smith dropped and traded during last season.

I’m still open to offers.

mjp

14-02-2022, 10:27 AM

I guess that's an age old argument, exposure to finals etc the old Grant v Hird. Being in a good v bad side.

Grant doesn't get the same recognition because he didn't get the opportunity at the pointy end.

Maybe Walsh will never play in a GF or do what Bailey did so I'm not sure it's the best gauge of their comparative ability.

I get the argument for Bailey though, and comparing players is fun but sometimes it's ok to realise they're both bloody good! xD

Well - Chris Grant DID play and play well in finals. Perhaps if 97 or 98 had gone the way we all hoped history would look upon him differently.

The thing about being 'good' in a bad side is that everyone is judging you on a totally different scale. If Walsh (and I like him so this is just an example) gets 35 and kicks 3 AND his opponent gets 28 and kicks 2...but Carlton lose by 6 goals, well, to everyone watching he is clear BOG (or at least BOG for Carlton). Players in winning teams are simply held to a higher standard and if the outcome is not 4-points then everyone comes for you.

We all used to get upset when Scott West was dismissed by opposition supporters as an 'accumulator who didn't hurt you' - we would point to his numbers as representative of 'how good' he was.

Reality? Everyone was right. West WAS a good player. And no doubt he chased stats (and we celebrated them) because if you aren't winning flags you have to prove you are a good player via other means.

Grantysghost

14-02-2022, 11:00 AM

Well - Chris Grant DID play and play well in finals. Perhaps if 97 or 98 had gone the way we all hoped history would look upon him differently.

The thing about being 'good' in a bad side is that everyone is judging you on a totally different scale. If Walsh (and I like him so this is just an example) gets 35 and kicks 3 AND his opponent gets 28 and kicks 2...but Carlton lose by 6 goals, well, to everyone watching he is clear BOG (or at least BOG for Carlton). Players in winning teams are simply held to a higher standard and if the outcome is not 4-points then everyone comes for you.

We all used to get upset when Scott West was dismissed by opposition supporters as an 'accumulator who didn't hurt you' - we would point to his numbers as representative of 'how good' he was.

Reality? Everyone was right. West WAS a good player. And no doubt he chased stats (and we celebrated them) because if you aren't winning flags you have to prove you are a good player via other means.

I always recall that last game of 96 - I believe it was the year of the dog third act where the Dons beat us by a kick? (Mercuri?) Hird has like 30 possessions, Grant 25 2 goals. Hird gets the 3 Brownlow votes, Grant 2 and he wins with Voss by 1.

Grant is criminally under rated historically.

jeemak

14-02-2022, 12:13 PM

I always recall that last game of 96 - I believe it was the year of the dog third act where the Dons beat us by a kick? (Mercuri?) Hird has like 30 possessions, Grant 25 2 goals. Hird gets the 3 Brownlow votes, Grant 2 and he wins with Voss by 1.

Grant is criminally under rated historically.

I think they played on each other at different times when Hird was resting forward as well.

GVGjr

14-02-2022, 12:23 PM

I’m still open to offers.

Comrade is hosting a new footy game show called "Lets make a deal" :)

It would have to be a great deal for me to pull the trigger on a trade.

Bulldog4life

14-02-2022, 02:53 PM

Comrade is hosting a new footy game show called "Lets make a deal" :)

It would have to be a great deal for me to pull the trigger on a trade.

No deal for me

Mofra

14-02-2022, 04:07 PM

Walsh is the better player BUT... Smith is the better player for us.
I dare say we value Smith's burst ability and finishing far more than we need another player who can go into the centre and get 35 touches.

In the same manner, Walsh is probably the best player from that draft right now but there are many teams who would take Max or Ben King ahead of him.

There is a subtle but important difference between 'best' player and 'most valuable' player and for each team that subtle difference changes based on their existing list.

EasternWest

14-02-2022, 05:17 PM

When Walsh kicks two goals - one on his left and one on his right - in the last 5 minutes of a cut throat prelim final, well, when he does that I’ll maybe agree with you. Getting 35 possessions in games that don’t matter doesn’t impress me all that much. It might not be his fault (I grant you that) but we know one of them has the fight and skill to make a difference when it matters...the other one? We can only guess.

This is the way I see it too. Walsh is a consistent gun, Smith is a jet.

Testekill

14-02-2022, 08:45 PM

Right on cue, Walsh is due to miss the first month with syndesmosis.

Grantysghost

14-02-2022, 09:07 PM

Right on cue, Walsh is due to miss the first month with syndesmosis.

Bailey's better, never misses a game! xD

mjp

14-02-2022, 09:30 PM

Right on cue, Walsh is due to miss the first month with syndesmosis.

Off topic but did I hear Ben King had re-injured his ACL as well?

chef

14-02-2022, 09:46 PM

Off topic but did I hear Ben King had re-injured his ACL as well?

Yep.

bornadog

14-02-2022, 11:23 PM

Off topic but did I hear Ben King had re-injured his ACL as well?

Yea he did, but still being offered a big contract to re-sign

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot

15-02-2022, 08:51 AM

Off topic but did I hear Ben King had re-injured his ACL as well?

Re-injured? I knew Max King had blown a knee before, but wasn't aware Ben had done one previously as well.

Bulldog4life

15-02-2022, 09:58 AM

Re-injured? I knew Max King had blown a knee before, but wasn't aware Ben had done one previously as well.

Think you're right YHF.

mjp

15-02-2022, 10:41 AM

Re-injured? I knew Max King had blown a knee before, but wasn't aware Ben had done one previously as well.

LOL - that'd be me mixing up the tall blokes who play for two teams I don't care about!

ratsmac

15-02-2022, 01:01 PM

We put the moz on Walsh! Can we do a Bont Petracca comparison next?

Axe Man

15-02-2022, 03:02 PM

Right on cue, Walsh is due to miss the first month with syndesmosis.

We have Carlton round 2 so Walsh's misfortune is our good luck.

Twodogs

15-02-2022, 07:16 PM

Off topic but did I hear Ben King had re-injured his ACL as well?

Out for the season and was already back in Melbourne for his op by yesterday.

Twodogs

15-02-2022, 07:20 PM

Comrade is hosting a new footy game show called "Lets make a deal" :)

It would have to be a great deal for me to pull the trigger on a trade.

Is there some way we can stop Jeemak posting any threads with the words "trade" and "Smith" in them? I don't think I could go through another Dunkley like trade period.

Unless the other club was offering 4 first rounders and their reigning B&F my answer is NO!