Our ruck conundrum

[Mofra]

So... we didn't get a ruck at the trade table last year, leaving us with Stef, Sweet and English.

How does this play out this year? Given Sweet is still 'developing' and Stef could call half of Geelong's list "junior", it seems a lot will fall onto Timmy's shoulders again with perhaps Schache providing a chop-out.
How do we think that effects our chances this year?

Additionally, West Coast are apparently going hard to Timmy. He's a WA boy, his GF has bought a house in Perth, and we have a cap squeeze while West Coast are about to get a heap of cash freed up so can outbid us.

As it stands, the rucks (or ruck/forwards) OOC this year are:
Tim English (duh)
Jordan Roughead (included for shits and giggles)
Darcy Fort
Rhys Stanley
Levi Casboult
Ben McEvoy
Luke Jackson
Todd Goldstein
Tristan Xerri
Samson Ryan
Paddy Ryder
Rohan Marshall
Tom Campbell
Callum Sinclair
Peter Ladhams
Nic Nat

It's a pretty uninspiring list of veterans, part-timers and untouchables.
What happens if English leaves? Zerri is probably gettable but he's meh (a small upgrade on Sweet).

[GVGjr]

I raised this during the trade period. We thinned the ranks a bit when we lost Young who was the preferred back up for English when Martin wasn't available and then failed to look for a contingency to cover the ageing and injured Steph Martin even when we knew English was coming out of contract.

At the very least West Coast will ensure we pay up to keep English.

There are a couple of decent back-up options on Mofra's list

[Axe Man]

So... we didn't get a ruck at the trade table last year, leaving us with Stef, Sweet and English.

How does this play out this year? Given Sweet is still 'developing' and Stef could call half of Geelong's list "junior", it seems a lot will fall onto Timmy's shoulders again with perhaps Schache providing a chop-out.
How do we think that effects our chances this year?

Additionally, West Coast are apparently going hard to Timmy. He's a WA boy, his GF has bought a house in Perth, and we have a cap squeeze while West Coast are about to get a heap of cash freed up so can outbid us.

As it stands, the rucks (or ruck/forwards) OOC this year are:
Tim English (duh)
Jordan Roughead (included for shits and giggles)
Darcy Fort
Rhys Stanley
Levi Casboult
Ben McEvoy
Luke Jackson
Todd Goldstein
Tristan Xerri
Samson Ryan
Paddy Ryder
Rohan Marshall
Tom Campbell
Callum Sinclair
Peter Ladhams
Nic Nat

It's a pretty uninspiring list of veterans, part-timers and untouchables.
What happens if English leaves? Zerri is probably gettable but he's meh (a small upgrade on Sweet).

Ladhams was just traded to Sydney and apparently has a 4 year contract.

[Mofra]

Ladhams was just traded to Sydney and apparently has a 4 year contract.
Cheers. I took the list off footywire but should have remembered the Ladhams trade.

It's also worth noting even if we lose English we'd likely sign all of our other OOC players so might not have too much cash to play with.
We might go young and target Samson Ryan (noting Soldo re-signed and Nank is their captain) but he'd not really the 'plug and play' type we'd look at as a first preference.

[bornadog]

Sam Darcy may have to come into calculations for next year if Tim leaves. I can't see Tim leaving us, but who knows.

This year will be similar to last, with us relying on Tim and Steph. I just hope Sweet can show something, as it is going to be important if we can develop him.

We really need an injury free year for our rucks, otherwise it will be a big struggle.

[Mofra]

Sam Darcy may have to come into calculations for next year if Tim leaves. I can't see Tim leaving us, but who knows.

This year will be similar to last, with us relying on Tim and Steph. I just hope Sweet can show something, as it is going to be important if we can develop him.

We really need an injury free year for our rucks, otherwise it will be a big struggle.
Some watchers think Darcy's best developed as KPD, others as a KPF who can chop out in the ruck. Considering he lost most of last year to Covid & injury and this year may well be a developmental wipe-out with his stress fractures, if he's rucking next year it will because 10 other players are unavailable.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

So... we didn't get a ruck at the trade table last year, leaving us with Stef, Sweet and English.

How does this play out this year? Given Sweet is still 'developing' and Stef could call half of Geelong's list "junior", it seems a lot will fall onto Timmy's shoulders again with perhaps Schache providing a chop-out.
How do we think that effects our chances this year?

Additionally, West Coast are apparently going hard to Timmy. He's a WA boy, his GF has bought a house in Perth, and we have a cap squeeze while West Coast are about to get a heap of cash freed up so can outbid us.

As it stands, the rucks (or ruck/forwards) OOC this year are:
Tim English (duh)
Jordan Roughead (included for shits and giggles)
Darcy Fort
Rhys Stanley
Levi Casboult
Ben McEvoy
Luke Jackson
Todd Goldstein
Tristan Xerri
Samson Ryan
Paddy Ryder
Rohan Marshall
Tom Campbell
Callum Sinclair
Peter Ladhams
Nic Nat

It's a pretty uninspiring list of veterans, part-timers and untouchables.
What happens if English leaves? Zerri is probably gettable but he's meh (a small upgrade on Sweet).

It makes you appreciate how far Melbourne have advanced with both Gawn and Jackson now. A lot of pressure on Sweet to improve and probably we would be better placed if he was given more opportunities in 2021.

[Mofra]

It makes you appreciate how far Melbourne have advanced with both Gawn and Jackson now. A lot of pressure on Sweet to improve and probably we would be better placed if he was given more opportunities in 2021.
I wonder how much we actually rate Sweet given we had a one-year deal on the table until West Coast made a two-year offer.

He looked quite good at VFL level in the early part of last season, and faded badly as the year wore on (carrying a niggle?)

[Mantis]

It makes you appreciate how far Melbourne have advanced with both Gawn and Jackson now. A lot of pressure on Sweet to improve and probably we would be better placed if he was given more opportunities in 2021.

Did he actually deserve further opportunities? His form in his last few VFL games (when they were a thing) were disappointing to say the least.

[jeemak]

Did he actually deserve further opportunities? His form in his last few VFL games (when they were a thing) were disappointing to say the least.

Yeah, it seems we have issues with gifting players games when they don't deserve them and also not gifting players games when they don't deserve them.

Not sure Sweet is equipped with the talent/ potential to justify receiving games for games sake irrespective to how important he could be to us.

[bornadog]

Yeah, it seems we have issues with gifting players games when they don't deserve them and also not gifting players games when they don't deserve them.

Not sure Sweet is equipped with the talent/ potential to justify receiving games for games sake irrespective to how important he could be to us.

His last AFL game against Melbourne, he had 3 disposals

[soupman]

It was a weakness going into each of the last two years and barring English suddenly figuring it all out (which is a strategy of hope) we have a worse ruck set up than both those seasons.

It's an uninspiring OOC list, although both Lloyd Meek and Kieran Strachan had some promising gametime last year, are behind very good young rucks at their current clubs and should be gettable for medium money (although I assumed that going into last trade period and here we are with neither).

[Mofra]

It was a weakness going into each of the last two years and barring English suddenly figuring it all out (which is a strategy of hope) we have a worse ruck set up than both those seasons.

It's an uninspiring OOC list, although both Lloyd Meek and Kieran Strachan had some promising gametime last year, are behind very good young rucks at their current clubs and should be gettable for medium money (although I assumed that going into last trade period and here we are with neither).
Strachan re-signed late last year sadly. He was the guy I wanted us to target.

[Go_Dogs]

English remains key to our ruck solution and that hasn’t changed. He was tracking very well until his concussion and I think he’s primed for another career year. Is it going to be enough against the best, perhaps not, but he should start closing the gap a little more and we need to find ways to keep playing to his strengths.

Get forward, rack up possessions around the ground, more confidence in him down the line marking etc

[Axe Man]

John Ralph mentioned last night on Fox when summarising team selections and Soldo being dropped that we offered him an attractive deal last off season but he obviously chose to stay at Richmond. Not sure I was previously aware of that?

[bornadog]

John Ralph mentioned last night on Fox when summarising team selections and Soldo being dropped that we offered him an attractive deal last off season but he obviously chose to stay at Richmond. Not sure I was previously aware of that?

Just shows that the club have tried to attract another ruckman.

I think end of year we need to make a play for some rucks. We should be adding a rookie ruck, plus a mature 28 year plus ruck

[azabob]

John Ralph mentioned last night on Fox when summarising team selections and Soldo being dropped that we offered him an attractive deal last off season but he obviously chose to stay at Richmond. Not sure I was previously aware of that?

It came to light a week or two back. From memory CODE Sport wrote an article on it.

EDIT - The article is behind a paywall and was published on March 26th

[MrMahatma]

Is there a list spot for one in the mid-season draft? We should seriously consider adding a physically mature back-up, even if just for the balance of this year. Sounds like Martin is cooked if he's not getting a call up.

[Axe Man]

Is there a list spot for one in the mid-season draft? We should seriously consider adding a physically mature back-up, even if just for the balance of this year. Sounds like Martin is cooked if he's not getting a call up.

No list spot currently. There would need to be a long term injury or a retirement.

Martin has dealt with illness and then covid protocols I believe so we may still see him at some stage.

[Mantis]

No list spot currently. There would need to be a long term injury or a retirement.

Martin has dealt with illness and then covid protocols I believe so we may still see him at some stage.

If English plays as 1st ruck then how can we play Martin who is solely a 1st ruck too?

We need someone who can play ruck for 30% of the game and play forward/ back for 50%.

[Before I Die]

I suspect the plan for the last part of the season is Bruce.
I think the plan at the start of the season was Martin, who apparently trained a lot with the forwards pre-season. With his injury and form issues it became Cordy, and probably will be again next week.

I don't see the above options as terrible. Unfortunately we got down to Plan D, which was Hannan, and now Plan E which is... ?

I don't think many teams would have a Plan E.

When Keath gets back, an option could also be Gardner, if O'Brien can hold down a KPD spot while he is rucking.

[hujsh]

If English plays as 1st ruck then how can we play Martin who is solely a 1st ruck too?

We need someone who can play ruck for 30% of the game and play forward/ back for 50%.


So frustrating that Schache performed the way he did round 1 because there's a roll just there for him but instead we're looking for literally any other option.

[Mantis]

I suspect the plan for the last part of the season is Bruce.
I think the plan at the start of the season was Martin, who apparently trained a lot with the forwards pre-season. With his injury and form issues it became Cordy, and probably will be again next week.

I don't see the above options as terrible. Unfortunately we got down to Plan D, which was Hannan, and now Plan E which is... ?

I don't think many teams would have a Plan E.

When Keath gets back, an option could also be Gardner, if O'Brien can hold down a KPD spot while he is rucking.

Melbourne would be down to Plan M before Fritsch would be in the ruck which is where we've been with Hannan playing the role for us.

Martin has never been any good as a forward so not sure why that would be thought of for a 35yo.

We've got 20 different options for a HFF, but f-all for a 2nd ruck which is pretty crazy.

[Axe Man]

If English plays as 1st ruck then how can we play Martin who is solely a 1st ruck too?

We need someone who can play ruck for 30% of the game and play forward/ back for 50%.

Agree, just saying that there have been reasons why Stef hasn't been selected outside just form. I think English's form has probably surprised a little and they are re-thinking their pre-season strategy.

[Mofra]

Agree, just saying that there have been reasons why Stef hasn't been selected outside just form. I think English's form has probably surprised a little and they are re-thinking their pre-season strategy.
He was apparently 'in the frame' two games ago but was struck down with Covid.

[Before I Die]

Melbourne would be down to Plan M before Fritsch would be in the ruck which is where we've been with Hannan playing the role for us.

Martin has never been any good as a forward so not sure why that would be thought of for a 35yo.

We've got 20 different options for a HFF, but f-all for a 2nd ruck which is pretty crazy.

Yes, even crazier is the fact that, as hujsh stated above, on paper we have the perfect solution, A 201cm player picked at number 2 in the Draft as KPF. If only he had received his full three drops of 'essence of terror' at birth. Sorry, showing my age.

If Bruce and Darcy were fit, the problem may not exist.

I'm starting to think that out of necessity, Schache may come into the starting 22 and maybe Scott starts as the medi-sub.

[DOG GOD]

I’ve said before. This club will not look at a proper ruck division while Bevo is at the helm. He doesn’t rate them and he’s not going to change, so until he is replaced, we will have to put up with this farce.

[bornadog]

I’ve said before. This club will not look at a proper ruck division while Bevo is at the helm. He doesn’t rate them and he’s not going to change, so until he is replaced, we will have to put up with this farce.

DG, sorry mate but I cannot agree with this at all. Why would we chase Soldo, why would we trade for Stef? Stef wasn't first choice, but that is all we could do at the time.

Bevo is not looking for a ruckman that is just good at tap outs, his ideal is what Melbourne have. A ruckman like Gawn, who can win tap outs, take marks around the ground, be able to go up forward. English is working towards that. For a second ruck, a Jackson type would suit because he also can play a number of rolls on the ground as well as go into the ruck.

This is where the game is heading, but unfortunately, clubs aren't willing to wait awhile for young guys to mature and get them into these roles. We have been very patient with Tim and it is coming to fruition, but we haven't nailed the second ruck role.

Darcy is a possible in the future, Schache could work, but we know his deficiencies.

There is a role for ruckman, but long gone are the lumbering types who are great at tap outs, but useless for the rest of the game.

[Before I Die]

I’ve said before. This club will not look at a proper ruck division while Bevo is at the helm. He doesn’t rate them and he’s not going to change, so until he is replaced, we will have to put up with this farce.

I’ve been following the club for a long time and I’ve seen very strong Ruck divisions under a variety of coaches. But I’ve only seen two GFs and one premiership. Case closed.

[GVGjr]

I’ve said before. This club will not look at a proper ruck division while Bevo is at the helm. He doesn’t rate them and he’s not going to change, so until he is replaced, we will have to put up with this farce.

It's a bit confusing, English is a decent ruckman and has some ability as a forward. If Bruce was playing I think we would have Bevo's ideal set-up of a 80% game time ruckman being supported Bruce. I don't think that is sufficient but I think that would be his preference.

Martin being fit and English up forward while Bruce is recovering was probably plan B with Sweet as the back up in case we cop injuries or suspension.

We should have looked to add either a versatile forward to cover Bruce and/or a ruckman so that English could move forward and in the end we did neither. We even thinned the ranks a bit further when we lost Lewis Young who as we all know was preferred last year over Sweet.
Darcy is a project player and even injury free would have been very unlikely to have played much footy this year given his build and the lack of development over the last two year.

Hannan, Schache, Cordy and the likes of Bont, Dunks and Naughton might be used from time to time this year.

[DOG GOD]

DG, sorry mate but I cannot agree with this at all. Why would we chase Soldo, why would we trade for Stef? Stef wasn't first choice, but that is all we could do at the time.

Bevo is not looking for a ruckman that is just good at tap outs, his ideal is what Melbourne have. A ruckman like Gawn, who can win tap outs, take marks around the ground, be able to go up forward. English is working towards that. For a second ruck, a Jackson type would suit because he also can play a number of rolls on the ground as well as go into the ruck.

This is where the game is heading, but unfortunately, clubs aren't willing to wait awhile for young guys to mature and get them into these roles. We have been very patient with Tim and it is coming to fruition, but we haven't nailed the second ruck role.

Darcy is a possible in the future, Schache could work, but we know his deficiencies.

There is a role for ruckman, but long gone are the lumbering types who are great at tap outs, but useless for the rest of the game.

No worries Bornadog. Melb won the lottery with Jackson that’s for sure.
Soldo I don’t rate at all and would only be a slight upgrade on sweet.
Darcy is miles away and English is not a first ruck.
Martin was chosen as desperation and that has been shown to be the case.

The fact that Bevo etc would risk Bont, Naughton, Dunkley etc in ruck contests instead of playing Sweet is bewildering and nothing but stupidity. Ok, he hasn’t set the world on fire (sweet), but he can do just as well as English in the centre square, and English can be very damaging up forward, especially with Bruce down.
Schache doesn’t have the aggressive balls to play ruck.

So, even if we went after mediocre rucks in the preseason, does that mean that sweet and Martin were only given contracts because we literally had no choice in the matter?

[DOG GOD]

It's a bit confusing, English is a decent ruckman and has some ability as a forward. If Bruce was playing I think we would have Bevo's ideal set-up of a 80% game time ruckman being supported Bruce. I don't think that is sufficient but I think that would be his preference.

Martin being fit and English up forward while Bruce is recovering was probably plan B with Sweet as the back up in case we cop injuries or suspension.

We should have looked to add either a versatile forward to cover Bruce and/or a ruckman so that English could move forward and in the end we did neither. We even thinned the ranks a bit further when we lost Lewis Young who as we all know was preferred last year over Sweet.
Darcy is a project player and even injury free would have been very unlikely to have played much footy this year given his build and the lack of development over the last two year.

Hannan, Schache, Cordy and the likes of Bont, Dunks and Naughton might be used from time to time this year.

I still dont see English as the #1 ruck. Early last year with English, Bruce and Naughton fwd we looked to have the ideal setup. Martin in ruck.
When Bruce went down we should have thrown everything at a similar ilk, knowing Bruce was pretty much gone for the year. Halfway through last year it was obvious Martin was done. Sweet should’ve played when Martin went down, but didn’t.
I don’t know where this leaves us.

[MrMahatma]

Are we losing centre clearances? I guess that’s Bevo’s market for success? I kind of get his theory about hit outs, in general, compared to having another mid type around the stoppage. I guess the job of the makeshift ruck isn’t to win the hit out but to try and prevent a lost hit out being one to advantage of the opponents. Don’t even know where I’d look at for those stats to see if it’s even remotely working,

Are we judging based on optics (it does look stupid at times!) compared to output?

Apart from the GF and a few mins against ESS last year, have we been torched out of the guts much? Carlton got a few decent looks from centre bounce I think.

[G-Mo77]

Sweet did nothing wrong last season and was never welcomed back. We may as well give him a long string of games as 1st Ruck, English moves back to Fwd/Pinch Ruck and that is where we were most dangerous last season IMHO. Why we bandaged up Stef like a Mummy and brought him into 2022 I'll never know. There are many free hit rucks from the off season running around at AFL level now, any would have been a logical choice, none of them is negligent.

[Ghost Dog]

No worries Bornadog. Melb won the lottery with Jackson that’s for sure.
Soldo I don’t rate at all and would only be a slight upgrade on sweet.
Darcy is miles away and English is not a first ruck.
Martin was chosen as desperation and that has been shown to be the case.

The fact that Bevo etc would risk Bont, Naughton, Dunkley etc in ruck contests instead of playing Sweet is bewildering and nothing but stupidity. Ok, he hasn’t set the world on fire (sweet), but he can do just as well as English in the centre square, and English can be very damaging up forward, especially with Bruce down.
Schache doesn’t have the aggressive balls to play ruck.

So, even if we went after mediocre rucks in the preseason, does that mean that sweet and Martin were only given contracts because we literally had no choice in the matter?

Darcy is miles away because of injury, body weight or craft?
And what's the expected time taken for him to play a role?

To risk Bont in the ruck is pretty frightening, and Naughton.

[Danjul]

Are we losing centre clearances? I guess that’s Bevo’s market for success? I kind of get his theory about hit outs, in general, compared to having another mid type around the stoppage. I guess the job of the makeshift ruck isn’t to win the hit out but to try and prevent a lost hit out being one to advantage of the opponents. Don’t even know where I’d look at for those stats to see if it’s even remotely working,

Are we judging based on optics (it does look stupid at times!) compared to output?

Apart from the GF and a few mins against ESS last year, have we been torched out of the guts much? Carlton got a few decent looks from centre bounce I think.
In professional sports the only marker of success is winning. And continued winning.

Early Last year the club’s happiness register showed an historic high, and the team seemed to be on trajectory for an era of dominance. My memory of the time was most Woof comments were positive and welcomed the change to the 3 tall forwards and a tap ruck.

We lost against Richmond, I think Martin went off injured and we lost control of the middle. We lost against Melbourne when Sweet came up against the competition’s best ruckman. Only winning 10 of the first 12 games demanded a new strategy and I’m sure we’ll find a workable plan eventually.

[Ghost Dog]

In professional sports the only marker of success is winning. And continued winning.

Early Last year the club’s happiness register showed an historic high, and the team seemed to be on trajectory for an era of dominance. My memory of the time was most Woof comments were positive and welcomed the change to the 3 tall forwards and a tap ruck.

We lost against Richmond, I think Martin went off injured and we lost control of the middle. We lost against Melbourne when Sweet came up against the competition’s best ruckman. Only winning 10 of the first 12 games demanded a new strategy and I’m sure we’ll find a workable plan eventually.

Hi Danjul
Disagree to be honest. if this were true, Western Bulldogs would not really have much of a supporter base.
We haven't won a lot of finals. Yet the fanbase continues. Winning is a lot but it's not everything.

[Vred]

Sweet did nothing wrong last season and was never welcomed back. We may as well give him a long string of games as 1st Ruck, English moves back to Fwd/Pinch Ruck and that is where we were most dangerous last season IMHO. Why we bandaged up Stef like a Mummy and brought him into 2022 I'll never know. There are many free hit rucks from the off season running around at AFL level now, any would have been a logical choice, none of them is negligent.


We can't move English back to more FWD than ruck.
He had a cry/bitch/moan about it last season because he was spending more time forward than actually rucking to the point his manager has come out and said as much (he was unhappy and approached my other Melbourne clubs). English wants to be a number one ruck and currently has us over a barrel because he could chose to walk and we'd have no replacement.
Yet, he isn't a number one ruck, loses almost every contest his in, so what's the solution? Let him walk? I'm fine with that as long as we have a proper number one ruck lined up to take over.

We've needed two competent rucks on our list for as long as I can remember and yet here we are in 22' with well, one ? half of one? I don't know anymore.

[G-Mo77]

We can't move English back to more FWD than ruck.
He had a cry/bitch/moan about it last season because he was spending more time forward than actually rucking to the point his manager has come out and said as much (he was unhappy and approached my other Melbourne clubs). English wants to be a number one ruck and currently has us over a barrel because he could chose to walk and we'd have no replacement.
Yet, he isn't a number one ruck, loses almost every contest his in, so what's the solution? Let him walk? I'm fine with that as long as we have a proper number one ruck lined up to take over.

We've needed two competent rucks on our list for as long as I can remember and yet here we are in 22' with well, one ? half of one? I don't know anymore.

OK then if our plan is to play him #1 all season, which I'm fine with, why even bother with Martin who is a ruck and nothing else. Why resign him at all? There were many free hits in the off season and those rucks/bigs would have been wanting to come because of the opportunity. We passed on them all, all of them.

[GVGjr]

You raise a good point Vred
I'm more than OK with English as the first ruckman for us but he does need some support and the club needed to look adding more depth in the ruck position. The fact that English is also a decent forward should provide us with some options.

[bornadog]

English is working his way to being one of the best ruckman in the AFL. Ruck work is not just about tapping the ball to mids and then disappearing for the rest of the time? English's tap work has improved immensely this season, and last night had 21 taps to Nankervis' 26, however, 20 disposals, 8 marks to 12, and 3 he was the best of the two.

A second ruck is now our main issue.

[GVGjr]

English is working his way to being one of the best ruckman in the AFL. Ruck work is not just about tapping the ball to mids and then disappearing for the rest of the time? English's tap work has improved immensely this season, and last night had 21 taps to Nankervis' 26, however, 20 disposals, 8 marks to 12, and 3 he was the best of the two.

A second ruck is now our main issue.

I agree but it's the same issue we have had for a while and it isn't being addressed. Hannan, Bontempelli and Naughton aren't the answer.

[bornadog]

I agree but it's the same issue we have had for a while and it isn't being addressed. Hannan, Bontempelli and Naughton aren't the answer.

Forgetting should have, could have, who is your suggestion with the current list?

[westbulldog]

Now that Jordan Sweet is unfortunately unavailable due to concussion we will defer to Happy Days "Anyone who asks why Sweet isn’t playing isn’t a real head" who obviously has all the answers which we are not yet privvy to.

[SquirrelGrip]

Forgetting should have, could have, who is your suggestion with the current list?

I think the second ruck has to be Schache, just because our second ruck is only needed to ruck for maybe 10% of the game and at least he has versatility to do something else for the other 90%. None of the other options on our list (who are fit!) can do that.

[GVGjr]

Forgetting should have, could have, who is your suggestion with the current list?

The problem is the fact that it was being called out as a significant gap during trade periods over the last couple of years and not being addressed. The cupboard is bare but it's by design.

It concerns me when I hear Bevo saying we would normally have more KP players to pinch hit in the ruck when Tim needs a spell and he mentions Jumarra's not really ready. While I'm glad he acknowledges that but it came across like it could be an option.

He did acknowledge Martin was OK yesterday and might put his hand up this week.

[bornadog]

I think the second ruck has to be Schache, just because our second ruck is only needed to ruck for maybe 10% of the game and at least he has versatility to do something else for the other 90%. None of the other options on our list (who are fit!) can do that.

I tend to agree. I have been calling for sometime now that he should be practising his ruck craft. One of his best games v the Hawks a few years ago, he played second ruck and whilst in that role he kicked 3 goals.

However, does he play forward or back for the rest of the game? I would say back, but we need to configure the backline.

[GVGjr]

I think the second ruck has to be Schache, just because our second ruck is only needed to ruck for maybe 10% of the game and at least he has versatility to do something else for the other 90%. None of the other options on our list (who are fit!) can do that.

He's a viable but not a compelling option in that role. Bevo talked about not having options and at least Schache gives him that.

[Grantysghost]

The problem is the fact that it was being called out as a significant gap during trade periods over the last couple of years and not being addressed. The cupboard is bare but it's by design.

It concerns me when I hear Bevo saying we would normally have more KP players to pinch hit in the ruck when Tim needs a spell and he mentions Jumarra's not really ready. While I'm glad he acknowledges that but it came across like it could be an option.

He did acknowledge Martin was OK yesterday and might put his hand up this week.

I guess there’s no secret his style is versatility first and players learning all the facets of the game so they can be plugged in anywhere. Couple that with his recent propensity to use the term “turnover game” more often than Prince Andrew phones his lawyer then we can see pretty clearly his direction for the side.

He will never use two rucks, he loves flankers, and team defence is the defence. Real shame we couldn’t hang onto Marcus Adams.

[SquirrelGrip]

I tend to agree. I have been calling for sometime now that he should be practising his ruck craft. One of his best games v the Hawks a few years ago, he played second ruck and whilst in that role he kicked 3 goals.

However, does he play forward or back for the rest of the game? I would say back, but we need to configure the backline.

I think his role changes game by game for his 90%. It might be all of back, forward and wing. A true utility, not great in any one of those positions but at least helps with team balance.

[Hotdog60]

It may be way out in left field but could we use Buku as relief ruck I noticed in the VFL he played half a game forward and although didn't do anything like our seniors the delivery into the forward half wasn't that good so do you think they may be looking at this as an option?

[GVGjr]

It may be way out in left field but could we use Buku as relief ruck I noticed in the VFL he played half a game forward and although didn't do anything like our seniors the delivery into the forward half wasn't that good so do you think they may be looking at this as an option?

Buku was in the ruck a bit yesterday but he's not a 2nd ruckman.

[bornadog]

Buku was in the ruck a bit yesterday but he's not a 2nd ruckman.

He won his tap outs. Great leap.

[Hotdog60]

Buku was in the ruck a bit yesterday but he's not a 2nd ruckman.

Would he be better than using the Bont, Dunkley and Hannan?

Or another option to use Gardner as a forward ruck relief and send Schache back. We don't have a lot of options up our sleeve.

[GVGjr]

Would he be better than using the Bont, Dunkley and Hannan?

Or another option to use Gardner as a forward ruck relief and send Schache back. We don't have a lot of options up our sleeve.

Schache makes the most sense because he can play in a few roles.
I think we need to accept that he is laconic and will frustrate us from time to time.

Gards needs to stay in the back line in my opinion.

[josie]

Noticed Buku was tried forward a bit yesterday. He and Schache have reasonable disposal from backline. Wouldn’t mind both being selected. Buku can mark pretty well and deserves a promotion. We are way too short and our ability to mark down the line relies too much on English and Naughton. I’d rather see either or both ruck instead of Bont.

[Danjul]

Schache makes the most sense because he can play in a few roles.
I think we need to accept that he is laconic and will frustrate us from time to time.

Gards needs to stay in the back line in my opinion.

If Schache plays 20 games a season and has 5 really really really bad ones what does it mean? The current team is improved through some good games and improved team structure. But if he is only coming in for his usual short stint in a new role so he can fail then don’t bother.

[bornadog]

If Schache plays 20 games a season and has 5 really really really bad ones what does it mean? The current team is improved through some good games and improved team structure. But if he is only coming in for his usual short stint in a new role so he can fail then don’t bother.

He is being trialled as a backman in the VFL. He once said he has never played back, so he needs to learn. If he can hone his skills, and play well, he is just what we need in the backline at almost 200cm. Yesterday, I noticed he went for the spoil more, rather than trying to out mark his opponents, which is just what you need.