Rating our list 2021: Josh Schache 13

[Hotdog60]

Hi All,

During the off season I thought I would start our list rating again. I won't included the new recruits as there is nothing to go on and I'll leave out desisted and retired players as there is no point.

Like last time I'll count down from the highest number to the lowest but I thought the poll rating this time will go on a different tack and get Woofers thoughts on how they rank from Elite to Below Average.

I hope current performance doesn't reflect on last years assessment.

[Hotdog60]

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Players/ChampIDImages/XLarge2022/993841.png?i10c=img.resize(scale_height:0.504)

Josh Schache joined the Western Bulldogs as part of a deadline deal in the 2017 NAB AFL Trade Period, after the Club sent picks 25 and 40 to the Brisbane Lions in exchange for the 20-year old key forward. A highly-touted junior, Schache joined the Bulldogs after 27 games and two seasons at the Lions after he was taken with pick number two at the 2015 NAB AFL Draft. The former Murray Bushranger has emerged as a solid defensive option for the coaching staff, playing predominately back over the past two seasons. Schache has inked a contract extension in November, 2019 to ensure he remains at VU Whitten Oval until at least the end of 2022.
LINK (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/players/883/josh-schache)

[1eyedog]

A lack of competitive spirit means he doesn't get the opportunities he needs to to build confidence. It's a vicous circle.

[Mantis]

He kicks the ball as well as anyone on our list, but as per 1ED he just doesn’t compete well enough to nail down a spot.

Below average based on his skill set.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

A lack of competitive spirit means he doesn't get the opportunities he needs to to build confidence. It's a vicous circle.

Yep. He's like an ex-girlfriend you want to love, but they just keep hurting you every time you give them a chance.

Unfortunately I don't think he earns another contract beyond his current one.

[bornadog]

Below average for me too. No intensity, looks too laid back.

[EasternWest]

He kicks the ball as well as anyone on our list, but as per 1ED he just doesn’t compete well enough to nail down a spot.

Below average based on his skill set.

Above average skillset, below average player for me.

[Danjul]

Above average skillset, below average player for me.

This is true. He is the poster boy for explaining why potential players should not consider the Dogs.

Nothing ‘seems’ to be done to develop a player’s natural talent. They either perform miraculously in unsuitable roles or fail totally.

Look at Roughead. Walked away and Collingwood supporters couldn’t their luck. Now Lipinski, a ranking (in the Age?) put him above every bulldog player after 2 games.

I am surprised Schache stayed but I assume nobody else would want to try him now.

He wasn’t our worst in game 1 (certainly wasn’t good) but he is reliably the first to get the chop.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

This is true. He is the poster boy for explaining why potential players should not consider the Dogs.

Nothing ‘seems’ to be done to develop a player’s natural talent. They either perform miraculously in unsuitable roles or fail totally.

Look at Roughead. Walked away and Collingwood supporters couldn’t their luck. Now Lipinski, a ranking (in the Age?) put him above every bulldog player after 2 games.

I am surprised Schache stayed but I assume nobody else would want to try him now.

He wasn’t our worst in game 1 (certainly wasn’t good) but he is reliably the first to get the chop.

Bolded is debatable, he was absolutely awful.

Schache has been given enough opportunity but has failed spectacularly at times. I think it's a cop out to blame his lack of performance on the coaches, it's pretty clear his weaknesses hold him back from even being influential at VFL level.

[Bullies]

This is true. He is the poster boy for explaining why potential players should not consider the Dogs.

Nothing ‘seems’ to be done to develop a player’s natural talent. They either perform miraculously in unsuitable roles or fail totally.

Look at Roughead. Walked away and Collingwood supporters couldn’t their luck. Now Lipinski, a ranking (in the Age?) put him above every bulldog player after 2 games.

I am surprised Schache stayed but I assume nobody else would want to try him now.

He wasn’t our worst in game 1 (certainly wasn’t good) but he is reliably the first to get the chop. Roughead was always a good defender but had a fallout with Bevo so was not left with much of a choice. Lipinski always had ability but lets wait until he starts playing the talented midfielders and the top teams. It is only Round 2. He no doubt will be a good player at Collingwood and he would with us but would he make a difference.

Schache I don't think will make it anywhere unfortunately. He just lacks that intensity at the highest level. He shows glimpses but more often than not just goes missing. Sides know they can go physical on him and he is shot.

[Danjul]

Bolded is debatable, he was absolutely awful.

Schache has been given enough opportunity but has failed spectacularly at times. I think it's a cop out to blame his lack of performance on the coaches, it's pretty clear his weaknesses hold him back from even being influential at VFL level.

I agree that Schache has failed. What I am saying is that I don’t believe his failure should have been as spectacular as it has been.

To illustrate.

In 2020 Bruce had plenty of games as bad as or worse than Schache’s first this year. His season was one of the worst I have ever seen. He was never dropped, but was rested for one game. He went on to be close to our most important player in 2021.

By contrast, if Schache had a good game he knew it didn’t count, and that was apparent from his early days. I’ve seen it with others too. It’s irrelevant I know, just part of the game.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I agree that Schache has failed. What I am saying is that I don’t believe his failure should have been as spectacular as it has been.

To illustrate.

In 2020 Bruce had plenty of games as bad as or worse than Schache’s first this year. His season was one of the worst I have ever seen. He was never dropped, but was rested for one game. He went on to be close to our most important player in 2021.

By contrast, if Schache had a good game he knew it didn’t count, and that was apparent from his early days. I’ve seen it with others too. It’s irrelevant I know, just part of the game.

I know what you are getting at, but an argument to that cause (rightly or wrongly) is that Bruce had proven he's an above average player in previous seasons. His 2020 season was poor, and I thought he should have been dropped, even if he was playing a different 'contesting' type of role.

On the other hand, Schache has had big question marks around his play since his Brisbane days and nothing he's ever done has challenged to rectify that. I thought he was good in the finals last year, but his pre-season form looked iffy and his R1 game was diabolical.

[Grantysghost]

I went below average.

For a number 2 pick after Weitering only he has really failed so far and it seems like a pretty decent recruitment blunder by the Lions.
A casualty of their recruitment of country kids who are apparently more resilient.

Having said that totally not his fault where he was recruited.

For his height he really doesn't have many attributes that will allow him to make it at the level unfortunately, and that coupled with an apparent lack of intensity doesn't bode well for his future.

I think his only role is down back as a second or third tall. Distributing well by foot and spoiling but even there I don't love his chances.
Maybe high half forward/ruck but he's just too slow to add anything defensively.

What he has got is an incredible kick on him, but sadly I don't think that's going to be enough.

I can see him playing at age 25+ in the VFL and not on an AFL list.

Just out of interest here are the players drafted after him in the first rd of note:

3. Callum Mills ( i get academy player and untouchable)
4. Clayton Oliver
5. Darcy Parish
7. Jacob Hopper
10. Harry McKay
12. Charlie Curnow
14. Eric Hipwood
16. Harrison Himmelberg
17. Tom Doedee.

[Danjul]

I know what you are getting at, but an argument to that cause (rightly or wrongly) is that Bruce had proven he's an above average player in previous seasons. His 2020 season was poor, and I thought he should have been dropped, even if he was playing a different 'contesting' type of role.

On the other hand, Schache has had big question marks around his play since his Brisbane days and nothing he's ever done has challenged to rectify that. I thought he was good in the finals last year, but his pre-season form looked iffy and his R1 game was diabolical.

I generally agree. Brisbane recruited Schache on potential and were disappointed. We knew what we were getting.

His first couple of games in 2019 were good, particularly the match winning performance against Hawthorn in game 2. Their backline couldn’t handle him and as well as kicking 4 goals he gave away others. That game was a highlight. Two poor games and he’s dropped for half the season.

When he came back he played very well in 10 games (except the one where he got concussion). In his last 5 he averaged a dozen possessions, 3 marks and 2 goals. Not one bad game. For the season he had 14(?) good Games for 2 bad ones.

Then the next season starts, obviously In the wilderness and a whipping boy. Replaced by someone who had 2 good games and was generally a liability. For me what hurts is the blatant double standard. Good luck to Bruce, I appreciate how he got his act together and the team into the finals.

[Danjul]

I went below average.

For a number 2 pick after Weitering only he has really failed so far and it seems like a pretty decent recruitment blunder by the Lions.
A casualty of their recruitment of country kids who are apparently more resilient.

Having said that totally not his fault where he was recruited.

For his height he really doesn't have many attributes that will allow him to make it at the level unfortunately, and that coupled with an apparent lack of intensity doesn't bode well for his future.

I think his only role is down back as a second or third tall. Distributing well by foot and spoiling but even there I don't love his chances.
Maybe high half forward/ruck but he's just too slow to add anything defensively.

What he has got is an incredible kick on him, but sadly I don't think that's going to be enough.

I can see him playing at age 25+ in the VFL and not on an AFL list.

Just out of interest here are the players drafted after him in the first rd of note:

3. Callum Mills ( i get academy player and untouchable)
4. Clayton Oliver
5. Darcy Parish
7. Jacob Hopper
10. Harry McKay
12. Charlie Curnow
14. Eric Hipwood
16. Harrison Himmelberg
17. Tom Doedee.

Strange day. Just met up with someone who is a Melbourne supporter. They said Oliver has been far more damaging since Williams has been working with him. So I looked at round 17 2019.

Schache, disposals 15. Goals 1.2 tackles 4 contested P 10
Oliver. Disposals 17 Goals 0.1 tackles 6 contested P 12

not much difference ( then).

Now we tremble at the sound of one name.

[Grantysghost]

Strange day. Just met up with someone who is a Melbourne supporter. They said Oliver has been far more damaging since Williams has been working with him. So I looked at round 17 2019.

Schache, disposals 15. Goals 1.2 tackles 4 contested P 10
Oliver. Disposals 17 Goals 0.1 tackles 6 contested P 12

not much difference ( then).

Now we tremble at the sound of one name.

Oliver is certainly an A grade player now.

Different type to the Shack attack so you'd expect Oliver to get more of it but gee wiz if the Lions had Oliver they'd be going ok!

Can make that case for many drafts it's a tough gig.