Three things you've learned. Round four 2022 v Richmond

[Twodogs]

And away you go. Round four, three things.

[GVGjr]

Bump

[The Bulldogs Bite]

1. Our midfield is overrated and needs to be broken up. I don't care about stats, they can't defend. They work one way and they can't spread. Happy to trade Dunkley, Libba is done. Time to get some fresh faces by way of draft or trade.

2. If English leaves we're in a world of pain after the time we've put into him.

3. I think Bevo might be done. Tactically he's always been suspect, but now I question if he can motivate the players. In terms of weaknesses that we've had for a long period of time, none have improved. Ultimately I think it has to fall on him. I've loved him, I've probably despised his decision making and stubbornness at times, obviously I'd love to be wrong... But I just think he looks out of ideas and at the end.

[EasternWest]

1. I knew Carey was a massive narcissist, I never knew he was a "whatever you say Dr Lanzer just mess my shit up" kind of narcissist.

2. We're a bit crap and on paper we shouldn't be. I can't really figure it out.

3. O'Brien did ok. I wasn't really expecting that.

[Bullies]

1. The mail might be right that some players are waiting to see who will coach before signing on. Something is not right.

2. We will regret not taking a first and second round pick for Dunkley.

3. They need to throw whatever they can at English.

[macca]

1. Our players look tired. Its a tired game style to win by kicking points . High energy type of game style with poor skill execution : fumbles , dropped marks, no one is playing on instinct . Back to basics . Learn to kick and play on instincts, bring back some fun to the game . I am afraid we have lost the season to our dreadful kicking and it’s an issue that has been neglected for years . Forget everything else
2. Teams have worked us out . Let the doggies win the ball fwd . Nullify Naughton , our smalls have zero impact and ball pressure , goal on the rebound. I am afraid Bevo has been worked out and we need some fresh ideas

3. If we lose English it’s back to the no key fwd years . I saw Lions last night having. Fort , Mcstay , Harris and Adams who just kept marking all night

I don’t see marks like that from any of our backs or key big men tonight . not having Bruce , Hannan and even Cordy has really left us short and not enough marking power. I’m kinda really afraid now we going to have some lean games this year

4. Darcy Fort and Chol was available last year , I wonder how hard we went for them ? We need KPD backman and ruck to support English . time to play the whole list and see who really can play . Sorry but I don’t see anything in Butler, Vanders, Wallis and those who are not playing tonight : Schache , … time to move these guys on . I love Wallis loyalty and endeavour .

[GVGjr]

1) I learned that the gaps in the list that many of us highlighted in the off season are valid.
2) We need some 1 v 1 type players in out back line and midfield.
3) A tough week ahead for our MC.

[Ghost Dog]

1. Our players look tired. Its a tired game style to win by kicking points . High energy type of game style with poor skill execution : fumbles , dropped marks, no one is playing on instinct . Back to basics . Learn to kick and play on instincts, bring back some fun to the game . Forget everything else
2. Teams have worked us out . Let the doggies win the ball fwd . Nullify Naughton , our smalls have zero impact and ball pressure , goal on the rebound. I am afraid Bevo has been worked out and we need some fresh ideas

3. If we lose English it’s back to the no key fwd years . I saw Lions last night having. Fort , Mcstay , Harris and Adams who just kept marking all night

I don’t see marks like that from any of our backs or key big men tonight . not having Bruce , Hannan and even Cordy has really left us short and not enough marking power. I’m kinda really afraid now we going to have some lean games this year

4. Darcy Fort and Chol was available last year , I wonder how hard we went for them ? We need KPD backman and ruck to support English . time to play the whole list and see who really can play . Sorry but I don’t see anything in Butler, Vanders, Wallis and those who are not playing tonight : Schache , … time to move these guys on . I love Wallis loyalty and endeavour .

Yeah I listened to the radio commentary. They said we looked not to be moving around, applying much pressure. Lacklustre.

[Ghost Dog]

1. Our midfield is overrated and needs to be broken up. I don't care about stats, they can't defend. They work one way and they can't spread. Happy to trade Dunkley, Libba is done. Time to get some fresh faces by way of draft or trade.

2. If English leaves we're in a world of pain after the time we've put into him.

3. I think Bevo might be done. Tactically he's always been suspect, but now I question if he can motivate the players. In terms of weaknesses that we've had for a long period of time, none have improved. Ultimately I think it has to fall on him. I've loved him, I've probably despised his decision making and stubbornness at times, obviously I'd love to be wrong... But I just think he looks out of ideas and at the end.

Bit harsh? By the boot we let Bevo down tonight. Honestly those set shots. These are professional footballers.
But each time we have an easy shot, I expect us to miss.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Bit harsh? By the boot we let Bevo down tonight. Honestly those set shots. These are professional footballers.
But each time we have an easy shot, I expect us to miss.

I think it's just one part of a bigger equation. The set shots are poor, but I really think we have even bigger problems than that.

[westbulldog]

1.The MC got it horribly wrong with the forward line - Scott. McNeill, Weightman and Ugle-Hagan had just 23 possessions and 2 points between them.
2. The club does not rate goalkicking accuracy at all, since 3/4 time in the Carlton game we have scored 18-43 so nothing to see here.
3. English can't carry the ruck for 23 rounds (forget the finals) and the refusal of Bevo and the MC to see that is hard to fathom.

[macca]

1.The MC got it horribly wrong with the forward line - Scott. McNeill, Weightman and Ugle-Hagan had just 23 possessions and 2 points between them.
2. The club does not rate goalkicking accuracy at all, since 3/4 time in the Carlton game we have scored 18-43 so nothing to see here.
3. English can't carry the ruck for 23 rounds (forget the finals) and the refusal of Bevo and the MC to see that is hard to fathom.

I would hate for him to become like Josh Fraser who was a phenomenal talent early on in his career . The pies just did not rate rucks and they wore him out . They even let go of Witts!
I would hate for see him end up at freo when they are starting their premiership window

[whythelongface]

1. The mail might be right that some players are waiting to see who will coach before signing on. Something is not right.

2. We will regret not taking a first and second round pick for Dunkley.

3. They need to throw whatever they can at English.

What mail? Where is this from?

[whythelongface]

1. We are in a major slump. Sure we beat the Swans and we could have won tonight with momentum but the lack of scoreboard pressure is telling. We hardly have any natural goal kickers in the team - Weightman is probably it. The lack of confidence in front of goal is diabolical. I’m they practice kicking for goal - maybe they need a psychologist.

2. O’Brien showed something. Not significant but at least a positive.

3. The pressure last week was great. This week it was poor. How can a team fluctuate so much in such a short timeframe ?

[bornadog]

What mail? Where is this from?

Very puzzling.

[MrMahatma]

1. If you can’t kick goals from in front, 35 out, you’re not a legit professionally footballer. I’m looking at you Josh Dunkley and Anthony Scott.
2. Man up and try a different routine if you ALWAYS miss set shots to the same spots. I’m looking at your Aaron Naughton. Be a professional.
3. The team surely must be pissed off at each other. We should be 3-1 not 1-3 and it’s all down to unprofessionalism in front of goal.

[The bulldog tragician]

1. I didn’t think our club would ask our blue chip player and captain to ruck but we did and something about it infuriates me.

2. The least effective players on the ground were our forwards with the exception of Naughton who was at least getting a look at goals. Marra and Weightman must find ways to be involved even if it’s not their night. The rest of them are not natural forwards.

3. Can a season be over in April? I hope that isn’t something I learnt the answer to.

[macca]

1. I didn’t think our club would ask our blue chip player and captain to ruck but we did and something about it infuriates me.

2. The least effective players on the ground were our forwards with the exception of Naughton who was at least getting a look at goals. Marra and Weightman must find ways to be involved even if it’s not their night. The rest of them are not natural forwards.

3. Can a season be over in April? I hope that isn’t something I learnt the answer to.

Carlton would never ask Cripps to ruck. Their supporters would be baying for their coach and board to be sacked.

[AshMac]

1. Always hurts a bit more when there’s hype at in the preseason
2. Some of these re-signings could be tough
3. Its only round 4. I never judge teams too harshly until round 7/8 but damn we’ve been served up some drivel these early few weeks

[Grantysghost]

1. Always hurts a bit more when there’s hype at in the preseason
2. Some of these re-signings could be tough
3. Its only round 4. I never judge teams too harshly until round 7/8 but damn we’ve been served up some drivel these early few weeks
If history is any guide we need to win 14 from 18 to make top 4.

[GVGjr]

1. Always hurts a bit more when there’s hype at in the preseason
2. Some of these re-signings could be tough
3. Its only round 4. I never judge teams too harshly until round 7/8 but damn we’ve been served up some drivel these early few weeks

I agree, it's way too early to be writing us off but it's a shame we aren't performing to our abilities.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

3. Its only round 4. I never judge teams too harshly until round 7/8 but damn we’ve been served up some drivel these early few weeks

I know what you are saying but I'd argue it's not just round 4 at this point.

We have lost 8 of our last 13 games. A record of 5-8 is a pattern.

The worst thing a club can do is not recognise where they (the list) are at. We are nowhere near contending - we thought otherwise, but we thought wrong.

[GVGjr]

I know what you are saying but I'd argue it's not just round 4 at this point.

We have lost 8 of our last 13 games. A record of 5-8 is a pattern.

The worst thing a club can do is not recognise where they (the list) are at. We are nowhere near contending - we thought otherwise, but we thought wrong.

I don't think it's an issue with our talent identification it's really about the balance of the playing list.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I don't think it's an issue with our talent identification it's really about the balance of the playing list.

Agreed but the fact that many of us on here have been pointing to the list imbalances for a few years, and our actual list management team employed by the club haven't, is a concern.

There's no excuse.

[Grantysghost]

1. I’ve started thinking Naughton back may be the only way to preserve any hair I have remaining. Our defence is middling at best and if we are off on our team defence we don’t have the fallback of a Lever, May, Gardiner, Andrews etc.
Flags are won from defence. Let’s try him back and build around him for the next five years, the goals will come.

2. Of all the sides in the league our threshold for being off is the smallest. Feels like we are off 1-5 percent the “turnover” game plan dissolves.

3. Libba needs more midfield time, I have no idea why the plan this year was to take the best clearance player in the game away from the clearances !?

[bornadog]

1. I learnt but knew, the AFL do not have a clue how to preserve this once great game by constant rule changes. The stand rule is just plain stupid and of no use. All rules just change the game, not enhance it.

2. Small forwards are a real issue. VDM, Weightman, McNeil, Wallis, Scott contributed 1.3. With 57 inside 50s, they had their chances.

3. Further to point 2, our forward half is a rabble and needs to be sorted out. Is it the delivery?, Is it that lack of forward craft.
In the last 3 games we have kicked 49 behinds.

[GVGjr]

Agreed but the fact that many of us on here have been pointing to the list imbalances for a few years, and our actual list management team employed by the club haven't, is a concern.

There's no excuse.

I doubt the list management team is working without strong direction on the shape of the list from Bevo especially during the trade periods.
The recruiting team is doing a fine job.

[bornadog]

I doubt the list management team is working without strong direction on the shape of the list from Bevo especially during the trade periods.
The recruiting team is doing a fine job.

Well the recruiting and list management got us to a GF.

[Grantysghost]

Well the recruiting and list management got us to a GF.
Have the last two drafts hurt our depth ? Footscray didn’t lose a game last year.

[bornadog]

Have the last two drafts hurt our depth ? Footscray didn’t lose a game last year.

Last two drafts we got number one and number two picks. They will be future, but don't help depth now.

[GVGjr]

Well the recruiting and list management got us to a GF.

Where we have fallen away is not addressing our ruck and KP playing depth and improving our skills with set-shot conversion.

[Grantysghost]

Last two drafts we got number one and number two picks. They will be future, but don't help depth now.

Necessary evil isn’t it. Can’t not go for those two talents.

Bloody crows screwing us with Marra!

[MrMahatma]

Kick better and we’re 3-1 and this is a diff convo.

So annoying but the team legit only have themselves to blame. I mean, maybe they’ll start blaming each other.

[GVGjr]

Kick better and we’re 3-1 and this is a diff convo.

So annoying but the team legit only have themselves to blame. I mean, maybe they’ll start blaming each other.

The effort has been pretty good. We haven't had the execution skills or a good enough set-up.

[bornadog]

Kick better and we’re 3-1 and this is a diff convo.

So annoying but the team legit only have themselves to blame. I mean, maybe they’ll start blaming each other.

49 behinds in 3 games has killed us. We have been better all over the ground than the opposition but killed our chances with poor execution

[EasternWest]

Kick better and we’re 3-1 and this is a diff convo.

So annoying but the team legit only have themselves to blame. I mean, maybe they’ll start blaming each other.

But haven't we been saying this for years?

[bornadog]

Where we have fallen away is not addressing our ruck and KP playing depth and improving our skills with set-shot conversion.

Besides injuries, how much different are we to last year?

TOB is better than Lewis Young, JUH will be better than last year, Tim is playing better than last year, Mids are all firing - we had Dunkley and Treloar out for a large chunk last year, plus Darcy for the future. I think our list is in better shape, however, would have been good to get another ruckman for depth.

[Grantysghost]

But haven't we been saying this for years?

Yes, it's a skill like every other.

Basically if we'd played better we'd never lose. I get goal kicking is obvious but maybe it's also about getting shots from good spots, so that's an upstream issue as well.

[chef]

1. That GF loss is probably going to be terminal for this group.

2. Butler is such a nothing player, no stand out features. How the hell did he get drafted.

3. As much as he sucks at competing he just need to throw Shaq back in the side. I want to cry every time i see Bont in the ruck.

[kruder]

Was at the game last night and saw highlights this morning and it just confirmed the entries inside forward 50 were horrific.

Even when we had a step on our opponent, a fast break opportunity we still couldn't find a free target in a decent position.

Its more than just goal kicking. We currently have no players in the VFL that can help address our forward line woes.

[Grantysghost]

1. That GF loss is probably going to be terminal for this group.

2. Butler is such a nothing player, no stand out features. How the hell did he get drafted.

3. As much as he sucks at competing he just need to throw Shaq back in the side. I want to cry every time i see Bont in the ruck.

Re point 2.

Flawed strategies for 1000 please Alex.

Answer : Decorated AFL coach Luke Beveridge's patented recruitment policy.

*buzz*

What is the turnover game Alex.

The turnover game.

[comrade]

Re point 2.

Flawed strategies for 1000 please Alex.

Answer : Decorated AFL coach Luke Beveridge's patented recruitment policy.

*buzz*

What is the turnover game Alex.

The turnover game.

I think I get what you’re saying but how do you think Butler fits into Bevo’s ‘turnover game’ mantra? He kicks it ok? He defends turnovers well?

[Grantysghost]

I think I get what you’re saying but how do you think Butler fits into Bevo’s ‘turnover game’ mantra? He kicks it ok? He defends turnovers well?

It's that style of player that he loves.

He may not do what was on the box is the issue.

We need to get the flanker to kpp balance right; I'm struggling to see the value in Butler at this point. Reminds me of a Christian Howard from what I've seen so far.

To be fair nothing of note was drafted after him apart from Garcia.

[GVGjr]

Besides injuries, how much different are we to last year?

TOB is better than Lewis Young, JUH will be better than last year, Tim is playing better than last year, Mids are all firing - we had Dunkley and Treloar out for a large chunk last year, plus Darcy for the future. I think our list is in better shape, however, would have been good to get another ruckman for depth.

We are probably just a bit worse off than last year knowiong that we don't have McLean and more importantly Bruce for a large slice of the season.
I wouldn't have minded adding TOB on top of keeping Lewis Young and giving Young more of a chance in his more natural position. That would have given us some depth and options.
If we assume that the taller boys take a bit longer his best footy might still be in front of him. Carlton colleagues were pleased with him last week and I'll try and watch the game against GC later today.

Marra is coming off a very low base so it's not a decent comparison just yet.

[Sedat]

If history is any guide we need to win 14 from 18 to make top 4.
We've never made top 4 under Bevo.

[AshMac]

If history is any guide we need to win 14 from 18 to make top 4.

Honestly - I don’t expect us to make top 4. I did until our team for round 1 was listed Dan di just realised we’d struggle to kick goals. Turn out I was right - just for a different reason.

Honestly - I think it’ll click into gear shortly and we’re start playing better (less frustrating football) but the big delta for me is that other teams look to have gotten better

[Grantysghost]

We've never made top 4 under Bevo.

Very true, something he broadcast loudly he wanted to change pre season.

[bornadog]

2. Butler is such a nothing player, no stand out features. How the hell did he get drafted.



I think this comment and others about Butler is unfair to a 20 year old with 4 games under his belt.

[G-Mo77]

I think this comment and others about Butler is unfair to a 20 year old with 4 games under his belt.

Probably but when you haven't got it you haven't got it. I see first gamers come in and influence games at other clubs, even ones plucked with late picks. Ours don't seem prepared at the next level and look miles off. He's played 4 games in 2 years and there is a reason for that.

[bornadog]

Probably but when you haven't got it you haven't got it. I see first gamers come in and influence games at other clubs, even ones plucked with late picks. Ours don't seem prepared at the next level and look miles off. He's played 4 games in 2 years and there is a reason for that.

Bookmarked

I will still apply the 20 game rule (if he gets there :D :D )

[chef]

I think this comment and others about Butler is unfair to a 20 year old with 4 games under his belt.

Yeah and I just dont see it with him, he doesn't seem to have any stand out strengths. I haven't been impressed with him at VFL level too and was surprised he got promoted.

What do you like about his game eg what's he good at?

[soupman]

Last two drafts we got number one and number two picks. They will be future, but don't help depth now.

Late picks haven't really stopped us getting the types we need though.

Key defenders, small forwards and ruckman are all classic rookie picks. We could have addressed the lack of options in this area even while grabbing JUH and Darcy.

Instead we've grabbed a bunch of forward mids that are neither and a bunch of medium defenders

[GVGjr]

Bookmarked

I will still apply the 20 game rule (if he gets there :D :D )

Didn't you write off Cal Porter early in year 2? You were right but the '20 game rule' didn't seem to apply then

[bornadog]

Yeah and I just don't see it with him, he doesn't seem to have any stand out strengths. I haven't been impressed with him at VFL level too and was surprised he got promoted.

What do you like about his game eg what's he good at?

At 20 years old and 4 games, just think he deserves a bit more before deciding whether he will make it.

I like the way he can find the ball, and he is a good kick, just needs to learn not to panic and find the pace of the game.

[bornadog]

Didn't you write off Cal Porter early in year 2? You were right but the '20 game rule' didn't seem to apply then

That was astute thinking :D

I don't remember whether I wrote him off, but he never got a chance to get to 20 games.

[GVGjr]

That was astute thinking :D

I don't remember whether I wrote him off, but he never got a chance to get to 20 games.

I guess the point is G-Mo hasn't just made a sweeping comment and has detailed his reasons for his comments.
We all make premature comments when assessing players.

[G-Mo77]

All good. I'll be happy for it to be bookmarked and refered back to if I'm wrong. I hope all our picks make it to the top level. We're getting later picks due to our position finished and the F/S - JUH selections so there is likely to be more misses than hits on draft day.

[bornadog]

All good. I'll be happy for it to be bookmarked and refered back to if I'm wrong. I hope all our picks make it to the top level. We're getting later picks due to our position finished and the F/S - JUH selections so there is likely to be more misses than hits on draft day.

The bookmark bit was a joke. Should have used an emoji.

Hopefully he does come good - time will tell.

[bornadog]

No Bankers and Anchors this week?

[GVGjr]

No Bankers and Anchors this week?

I've bumped it up

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

1. Naughton wants to be the big dog up forward. I love his swagger and aerial confidence.....but ultimately if he can't improve his goalkicking by 10-15% then he's not going to be able to perform this key forward role long term, once Bruce is back.


There is nothing more deflating that seeing him take a massive mark in goalscoring range, only to repeatedly squander the ensuing shot(s) on goal. If he can't fix this, then he must move to defense once we have the personnel up forward. I'd much rather us use his unique talents to our advantage by having him at CHB.

That'll do for me.

[MrMahatma]

1. Naughton wants to be the big dog up forward. I love his swagger and aerial confidence.....but ultimately if he can't improve his goalkicking by 10-15% then he's not going to be able to perform this key forward role long term, once Bruce is back.


There is nothing more deflating that seeing him take a massive mark in goalscoring range, only to repeatedly squander the ensuing shot(s) on goal. If he can't fix this, then he must move to defense once we have the personnel up forward. I'd much rather us use his unique talents to our advantage by having him at CHB.

That'll do for me.

It's the worst! I get so pumped when he clutches one and then, within a millisecond, I'm thinking "he's gonna miss!". Which, I assume, he prob thinks a bit also given he misses so often.

He should be unstoppable. Soon teams will start letting him take marks. He can have all the ball he wants in certain areas of the 50 cause he'll miss. It'll turn into a real liability.

[macca]

It's the worst! I get so pumped when he clutches one and then, within a millisecond, I'm thinking "he's gonna miss!". Which, I assume, he prob thinks a bit also given he misses so often.

He should be unstoppable. Soon teams will start letting him take marks. He can have all the ball he wants in certain areas of the 50 cause he'll miss. It'll turn into a real liability.
Sadly I think teams have worked they out. Let Naughton mark , even. 30 out , 50% chance he misses ; so expect 1 point . Win possession of ball . Or kick to Naughton who does not mark and goal on the rebound

[Swoop]

Sadly I think teams have worked they out. Let Naughton mark , even. 30 out , 50% chance he misses ; so expect 1 point . Win possession of ball . Or kick to Naughton who does not mark and goal on the rebound

Do you really believe that opposition teams let Naughton mark the ball 30 metres from goal, on the 50% chance he misses?

[Bulldog4life]

Then Naughty goes and kicks a right foot goal from the boundary for not the first time either. He is a conundrum.