List Management thread (For 2022)

[GVGjr]

Jon Ralph's view on us landing Lobb

Rory Lobb (Fremantle)

This has clearly been Lobb’s career-best year, kicking 30 goals in 17 games while also playing 24 per cent ruck time.

With Josh Bruce 30 and battling off a knee injury, Lobb is the perfect player for the Dogs to help Jamarra Ugle-Hagan secure a favourable match-up while helping Tim English.

It would shock if he didn’t get to Whitten Oval next year.

But he’s 30 in February. The Dogs will play hard ball, but should be happy to give up pick 27 given what is believed to be a four-year deal.

The Dockers could use that pick 27 to shuffle up the draft order with their first-round pick this year or next before handing it to Melbourne in a Jackson trade.

[GVGjr]

Jon Ralph's view on Josh Dunkley

Josh Dunkley (Western Bulldogs)

The number crunchers at Champion Data love Dunkley and believe he should be the No.1 target of the available mids as Port Adelaide flags strong interest.

It’s been another exceptional season averaging 24.9 possessions, four clearances and a total of 16 goals and 134 score assists.

He’s never going to be Darren Jarman but he’s going at a respectable 59 per cent kicking efficiency playing a 57-43 mid-forward split.

He’s exactly the kind of player the Power needs to stiffen their midfield and throw forward as Robbie Gray hits 34 and Connor Rozee and Zak Butters play more centre square time.

The Bulldogs wanted two first-rounders for him two years ago and given he’s only 25 it’s still the right price.

Put it this way – in Ken Hinkley’s last contracted season, would he be prepared to give up two early picks for a game-changing mid?

Carlton gave up pick 6 and future third-rounder for Adam Cerra, and Dunkley has a better resume than Cerra so far.

[soupman]

Twitter (link (https://twitter.com/mattturner1986/status/1553905112976080896)) reporting that PA are keen on Dunks.

I was OK with him leaving until a mate pointed out he's one of only two decent tacklers in our midfield.

I would like us to try to involve Willem Drew in a trade with them. Good inside mid, good tackler and has played a few good defensive roles.

We have shown that a midfeld of a graders doesn't necessarily get a grade results, so I'd like us to rejig it a bit and get b graders in there that can help it perform greater as a whole.

[GVGjr]

I would like us to try to involve Willem Drew in a trade with them. Good inside mid, good tackler and has played a few good defensive roles.

We have shown that a modifeld of a graders doesn't necessarily get a grade results, so I'd like us to rejig it a bit and get b graders in there that can help it perform greater as a whole.

Good suggestion. Xavier Duursma isn't getting a regular gig as well. I'd consider him if he wanted to head back to Melbourne.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I would like us to try to involve Willem Drew in a trade with them. Good inside mid, good tackler and has played a few good defensive roles.

We have shown that a modifeld of a graders doesn't necessarily get a grade results, so I'd like us to rejig it a bit and get b graders in there that can help it perform greater as a whole.

Interesting suggestion soupaman - he’s a very unlikeable opponent but we’d change our tune quickly if he changed jumpers

[Jeanette54]

I'll say it now, I don't want to lose Josh Dunkley. It would be a big mistake, whatever the compensation IMHO.

[The Doctor]

I'll say it now, I don't want to lose Josh Dunkley. It would be a big mistake, whatever the compensation IMHO.

I don't think there is any doubt the club wants to keep him. He has a contract offer from us. It's a question of whether he chooses to go for whatever reason. If he does decide to leave then we have to get the best value we can obviously, and I'm confident Sam Power will get a good result for us.

[azabob]

Jon Ralph's view on Josh Dunkley

Josh Dunkley (Western Bulldogs)

The number crunchers at Champion Data love Dunkley and believe he should be the No.1 target of the available mids as Port Adelaide flags strong interest.

It’s been another exceptional season averaging 24.9 possessions, four clearances and a total of 16 goals and 134 score assists.

He’s never going to be Darren Jarman but he’s going at a respectable 59 per cent kicking efficiency playing a 57-43 mid-forward split.

He’s exactly the kind of player the Power needs to stiffen their midfield and throw forward as Robbie Gray hits 34 and Connor Rozee and Zak Butters play more centre square time.

The Bulldogs wanted two first-rounders for him two years ago and given he’s only 25 it’s still the right price.

Put it this way – in Ken Hinkley’s last contracted season, would he be prepared to give up two early picks for a game-changing mid?

Carlton gave up pick 6 and future third-rounder for Adam Cerra, and Dunkley has a better resume than Cerra so far.

Mark Stevens said on RSN this morning that he is less confident this week than he was last week in the dogs retaining Dunkley.

The offer may have been less than Dunkley was expecting.

[azabob]

So... can anyone explain where we expect Liam Jones to play?

Is he going to be a lockdown defender or intercept player?

Are we assuming Keath, Gardner and Jones are all playing in the same side?

If Jones is signed I assume that is the end of the line for either Cordy or Schache? O'Brien survives as he is contracted.

[Grantysghost]

Mark Stevens said on RSN this morning that he is less confident this week than he was last week in the dogs retaining Dunkley.

The offer may have been less than Dunkley was expecting.

What a shame. Losing a 25 year old mid that will slot into Libba’s spot in two years is pretty sad.

I’m glad we aren’t going over the top with an offer also. Tricky situation.

Dunkley for Aliir ;)

[GVGjr]

Mark Stevens said on RSN this morning that he is less confident this week than he was last week in the dogs retaining Dunkley.

The offer may have been less than Dunkley was expecting.

That revelation turns up the volume a bit. Disappointing to hear to be honest.

If we can't get his signature then a trade with Port might need to be done. They currently have pick 7 which is a good starting point and if we could get a 3rd rounder as well that might be as good as it gets.

[GVGjr]

So... can anyone explain where we expect Liam Jones to play?

Is he going to be a lockdown defender or intercept player?

Are we assuming Keath, Gardner and Jones are all playing in the same side?

If Jones is signed I assume that is the end of the line for either Cordy or Schache? O'Brien survives as he is contracted.

I would suggest he will do a bit of both.
You would have to expect that all 3 would play each week albeit Keath might struggle with form and injuries

It could come down to keeping one of Cordy or Schache because I'm not sure we would release both.

[Vred]

Jon Ralph's view on Josh Dunkley

Josh Dunkley (Western Bulldogs)

The number crunchers at Champion Data love Dunkley and believe he should be the No.1 target of the available mids as Port Adelaide flags strong interest.

It’s been another exceptional season averaging 24.9 possessions, four clearances and a total of 16 goals and 134 score assists.

He’s never going to be Darren Jarman but he’s going at a respectable 59 per cent kicking efficiency playing a 57-43 mid-forward split.

He’s exactly the kind of player the Power needs to stiffen their midfield and throw forward as Robbie Gray hits 34 and Connor Rozee and Zak Butters play more centre square time.

The Bulldogs wanted two first-rounders for him two years ago and given he’s only 25 it’s still the right price.

Put it this way – in Ken Hinkley’s last contracted season, would he be prepared to give up two early picks for a game-changing mid?

Carlton gave up pick 6 and future third-rounder for Adam Cerra, and Dunkley has a better resume than Cerra so far.

The pundits on both the WB and Port boards on BF reckon Port have put a large, large offer infront of Dunks including incentives for midfield minutes, leadership positions, and big money.

I'd say, his pretty much goneski at this point if the ''insiders'' and media are all pointing to the same thing.

Hopefully we turn whatever we get for him into something that improves us instead of a VFL listed mid player...

[Rocco Jones]

So... can anyone explain where we expect Liam Jones to play?

Is he going to be a lockdown defender or intercept player?

Are we assuming Keath, Gardner and Jones are all playing in the same side?

If Jones is signed I assume that is the end of the line for either Cordy or Schache? O'Brien survives as he is contracted.

In 2021, Liam Jones was being out marked in 1:1s was the lowest percentage ever recorded by Champion Data.

I think Jones does a bit of both but ideally, that's what you want anyway.

The question to me is whether we play two or three KPDs and it might depend on our weekly opponent.

[mjp]

The Bulldogs wanted two first-rounders for him two years ago and given he’s only 25 it’s still the right price.

Put it this way – in Ken Hinkley’s last contracted season, would he be prepared to give up two early picks for a game-changing mid?


"Last time" he had 2-years to go on his contract. This time? 0.

If we think we are getting 2x 1st round picks, well, we should temper those thoughts.

All this stuff with Dunks over the past couple of years has been exhausting and - to be honest - totally the opposite of what I expected from him as a 17yo when loyalty and respect seemed to be the over-riding factors in where he wanted to play footy...

Something is definitely up.

[mjp]

In 2021, Liam Jones was being out marked in 1:1s was the lowest percentage ever recorded by Champion Data.


In 2021, we were desperate to get Alex Keath back into the team for a GF despite injury...that's a long time ago.

[Happy Days]

Dunkley really feels all about Dunkley. Moving to a clearly declining, not in Victoria Port Adelaide feels like it can only be bag related.

[Mofra]

The pundits on both the WB and Port boards on BF reckon Port have put a large, large offer infront of Dunks including incentives for midfield minutes, leadership positions, and big money.

I'd say, his pretty much goneski at this point if the ''insiders'' and media are all pointing to the same thing.

Hopefully we turn whatever we get for him into something that improves us instead of a VFL listed mid player...
I'm sure if a Vic club came close to that offer he'd walk.
He's OOC now so we don't have as strong a hand as the Essendon negotiations.

[Rocco Jones]

In 2021, we were desperate to get Alex Keath back into the team for a GF despite injury...that's a long time ago.

Yeah I hear that but I was replying to where he'd play. I am assuming he makes the 22.

[Grantysghost]

In 2021, Liam Jones was being out marked in 1:1s was the lowest percentage ever recorded by Champion Data.

I think Jones does a bit of both but ideally, that's what you want anyway.

The question to me is whether we play two or three KPDs and it might depend on our weekly opponent.


If I recall correctly Tom McDonald ripped him a new one. 5 goals in 3 quarters or the like.

[GVGjr]

"Last time" he had 2-years to go on his contract. This time? 0.

If we think we are getting 2x 1st round picks, well, we should temper those thoughts.

All this stuff with Dunks over the past couple of years has been exhausting and - to be honest - totally the opposite of what I expected from him as a 17yo when loyalty and respect seemed to be the over-riding factors in where he wanted to play footy...

Something is definitely up.

I think his fair value is somewhat linked to the Adam Cerra deal last year. I get they are very different players in what they've achieved but it might be the template for us.
A first and third round pick seems around the mark to me and we will have to make the most of it.

[Rocco Jones]

If I recall correctly Tom McDonald ripped him a new one. 5 goals in 3 quarters or the like.

Yeah the 1:1 stats can be misleading too. I am more quoting it rather than using it as definitive evidence.

Totally misread ball, get lost etc = not being in a 1:1.

[hujsh]

The pundits on both the WB and Port boards on BF reckon Port have put a large, large offer infront of Dunks including incentives for midfield minutes, leadership positions, and big money.

I'd say, his pretty much goneski at this point if the ''insiders'' and media are all pointing to the same thing.

Hopefully we turn whatever we get for him into something that improves us instead of a VFL listed mid player...

It kind of reads like you're suggesting we'll be drafting Lachie Sullivan with the pick we get from Port or something. Are you advocating for on-trading the pick for another midfielder to take his place rather than using the pick+picking up our usual Footscray mid?

[Grantysghost]

I think his fair value is somewhat linked to the Adam Cerra deal last year. I get they are very different players in what they've achieved but it might be the template for us.
A first and third round pick seems around the mark to me and we will have to make the most of it.

He's worth a top 15 pick at his age and ability. Maybe top 10.

How that packages up I don't know.

Not happy with this.

[Happy Days]

At least we have some protection from the PSD as I’m virtually certain Dunks would want nothing to do with North.

[1eyedog]

At least we have some protection from the PSD as I’m virtually certain Dunks would want nothing to do with North.

Would be freaking hilarious.

[Grantysghost]

At least we have some protection from the PSD as I’m virtually certain Dunks would want nothing to do with North.

No bromance/podcast material? Do any of them have netball wives? I think you need to redefine your paramaters HD !

He needs a diverse bromance next. Brand Dunkley will benefit.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Although it's a shame Dunkley looks likely to leave because he's a good player, at this point I'm kind of fed up with his narrative.

He isn't irreplaceable - horrendous kick and slow. He's limited.

I get it's not that simple because he's a ball winner, solid defensively, can take a mark and kick a goal ... but his type isn't the hardest to replace.

[chef]

I think Dunkleys worth sticks out a lot more when we play bad, he seems to be still having a crack.

I think he'll be a big loss to the club.

[josie]

Anyone a little worried we have not had Baz sign up yet? His firm has been down but it would be horrible to lose him, especially if we lose Dunkley.

[Mantis]

Although it's a shame Dunkley looks likely to leave because he's a good player, at this point I'm kind of fed up with his narrative.

He isn't irreplaceable - horrendous kick and slow. He's limited.

I get it's not that simple because he's a ball winner, solid defensively, can take a mark and kick a goal ... but his type isn't the hardest to replace.

If you lined the 2 of them up against a wall who would you take right now between Dunkley and Macrae?

[azabob]

I think Dunkleys worth sticks out a lot more when we play bad, he seems to be still having a crack.

I think he'll be a big loss to the club.

Tend to agree. This was again evident on Saturday night.

[azabob]

Anyone a little worried we have not had Baz sign up yet? His firm has been down but it would be horrible to lose him, especially if we lose Dunkley.

Can I be a broken record and put out there Smith to Sydney?

[Grantysghost]

Can I be a broken record and put out there Smith to Sydney?

If we lose Smith and Dunkley wind the joint up.

[bornadog]

Can I be a broken record and put out there Smith to Sydney?

Is this a rumour you heard to Sydney, or you speculating?

[azabob]

Is this a rumour you heard to Sydney, or you speculating?

Speculating big time.

Sydney would have a lot of marketing money to spend once Franklin retires and Bailey Smith would be the perfect marketing product.

[bornadog]

Speculating big time.

Sydney would have a lot of marketing money to spend once Franklin retires and Bailey Smith would be the perfect marketing product.

He said he is staying, and I believe him.

[Bulldog4life]

I think Dunkleys worth sticks out a lot more when we play bad, he seems to be still having a crack.

I think he'll be a big loss to the club.

Yep his goal kicking seems to have improved too.

[Boots]

I don't think we can afford to lose Dunkley or Smith.

If Dunks goes we lose defensive output in the middle. It's only really him, Bont and Libba who tackle in the middle and TBH it's only Libba who can be relied on to deliver that pressure around the ground.

If Smith goes we lose pace on the outside. We saw how flat-footed we were without him while he was suspended. Everyone else is burst run, not sustained run and carry.

If we lose either we will need to re-orient our game plan to something much more chip-and-mark oriented and we don't have the tools for that.

[mjp]

I don't think we can afford to lose Dunkley or Smith.

Well, if we do we wont be given a couple of season's grace to sort things out...

I don't want to lose either player but if they do both leave it isn't as if we can do much about it - putting our best 'fiscally responsible' offer on the table is all we can really do!

[soupman]

Dunkley leaving at least means we don't have to waste time talking about trying to placate him. Considering Hunter looks on the outer as well, we could be in a good position to reallocate money and rebalance our side.

For Dunkley I'd be pushing for Ports 1st, Willem Drew and we give back some pick to balance it out. They get peanut butter cups and shameless instagram plugs, we get a solid 23 year old mid who covers the ground well and is happy to sacrifice his game with 50 games under his belt.

Hunter would leave for stuff all, maybe a pick in the 30s. Frees up cap space though.

JJ would free up cap space also, although any offer we are planning for him would not be big anyway. Can't see any obvious suitors though so i imagine he'll stay. Crozier should also be looking around, but I imagine he'd be even less attractive than JJ for other clubs, and unfortunately is contracted.

If Smith does go (still cannot believe how little talk about him there has been, he would be a genuinely huge coup for anyone and bigger than the Cerra deal last year), then that would sting a lot. You'd have to hope we would push for two first rounders, and while it would be bad to lose him the currency we would have both in allocated salary (at least $600k) plus trade capital would be huge.

Based on the above we could have as many as 5 first rounders to play with (ours, our 2023 one, Ports, 2xSmith).

Lobb is basically locked in and I expect we will be able to do it for pick 20ish.

Jones is obviously locked in for free (if Carlton gets the FA thing though he would wash any "compensation" we got for JJ).

Should be aiming to pry a good key defender prospect out of a club with the extra dollars and first round picks. Unsure who to target (who would be gettable?).

Some candidates could be
-Sam Taylor. My first pick. Don't think he is overly gettable but no coach atm to convince him on the GWS project, and that club loves losing players.
-Noah Balta. Why not? Super talented, is probably pretty comfy but we should ask the question as he is ideal and seems to be playing this weird ineffective forward role.
-Paddy McCartin. Pretty sure he is a free agent, is much cheaper than the others and especially if the Swans are the club into Bailey Smith then maybe there isn't as much cash there as here.
-Brennan Cox. Really good mark for his size, kind of unsung which hopefully lowers the price, and has been a first choice key back there for a few years now so is clearly good.
-Ben McKay. North is a hard place to shine. I'm not sold on him but ticks most of the boxes apart from the whole "not actually sure if he's any good" one.
-Griffin Logue. Unsure on him, he's clearly talented but has hardly proven himself as an AFL key defender and is a touch short. He's a decent prospect but its more potential than realised atm.

[azabob]

Well, if we do we wont be given a couple of season's grace to sort things out...

I don't want to lose either player but if they do both leave it isn't as if we can do much about it - putting our best 'fiscally responsible' offer on the table is all we can really do!

Except if its for Liam Jones... Staggered we are offering three years to meet his financial terms.

[GVGjr]

Except if its for Liam Jones... Staggered we are offering three years to meet his financial terms.

We really don't know the contract for Jones, the 3rd year might be largely based on performance.
I agree that 2 years would have been ideal but 3 years might not be a huge stumbling block.

[Bulldog4life]

I'm going by what Bains recently said on radio. I think it has been posted somewhere here. Both Bazza and Dunks to stay in my very very humble opinion.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I'm going by what Bains recently said on radio. I think it has been posted somewhere here. Both Bazza and Dunks to stay in my very very humble opinion.

Thats my read of the situation - if something changes then we will find out - but I think we are in a good position to keep both

[Bulldog4life]

Thats my read of the situation - if something changes then we will find out - but I think we are in a good position to keep both

Adz would be heart broken. Dunks won't leave.

[GVGjr]

Based on the Stevo news we would have to put Dunkley in the less likely column, I'm impatient for a Smith decision but for some reason I don't quite see this as an issue for us. His name is not being linked to any other club at this stage.
Speculation that Hunter wants to move to Essendon I'm OK with because he has really dropped back this year and if his heart isn't in it then so be it. If it's coach over player stuff for this decision I'm sticking with Bevo in a big way.
He's contracted so we would get something decent for him and he would free up enough space to keep Dunks.

I'd also prefer to keep Williams but if he wants to head somewhere else, that's something I can reluctantly live with.

I've said before that if Dunkley does depart it should bring us a 1st and 3rd rounder which really tops up our draft picks for this year and gives us currency to bring in Lobb.
Hunter should net us a pick in the 3rd round and Essendon have pick #41. He might even get us a 2nd rounder if we throw in a late 3rd rounder. Once again that would help us strengthen our draft or trade options.
Williams would probably only net us a 3rd rounder or perhaps be part of a rare player for player trade.

Now if Smith isn't intending to stay with us it's rebuild time at the kennel. He's worth 2 x 1st rounders or at worst 1 x 1st rounder and 1 x 2nd rounder.

Jones addresses one of our shopping needs, Lobb the other but we could also look for other AFL experienced players.

Interesting next few weeks but I suspect Power and the team will find a way of keeping Dunks and getting the Smith signature.

[kruder]

Based on the Stevo news we would have to put Dunkley in the less likely column, I'm impatient for a Smith decision but for some reason I don't quite see this as an issue for us. His name is not being linked to any other club at this stage.
Speculation that Hunter wants to move to Essendon I'm OK with because he has really dropped back this year and if his heart isn't in it then so be it. If it's coach over player stuff for this decision I'm sticking with Bevo in a big way.
He's contracted so we would get something decent for him and he would free up enough space to keep Dunks.

I'd also prefer to keep Williams but if he wants to head somewhere else, that's something I can reluctantly live with.

I've said before that if Dunkley does depart it should bring us a 1st and 3rd rounder which really tops up our draft picks for this year and gives us currency to bring in Lobb.
Hunter should net us a pick in the 3rd round and Essendon have pick #41. He might even get us a 2nd rounder if we throw in a late 3rd rounder. Once again that would help us strengthen our draft or trade options.
Williams would probably only net us a 3rd rounder or perhaps be part of a rare player for player trade.

Now if Smith isn't intending to stay with us it's rebuild time at the kennel. He's worth 2 x 1st rounders or at worst 1 x 1st rounder and 1 x 2nd rounder.

Jones addresses one of our shopping needs, Lobb the other but we could also look for other AFL experienced players.

Interesting next few weeks but I suspect Power and the team will find a way of keeping Dunks and getting the Smith signature.

What Stevo news?

[Hotdog60]

If Dunks does go does it open up opportunities for either West or Garcia to move into the middle.
We may even see a better version of McComb (if possible) playing more natural roles.
A Mid I think we can cover I'm more concerned about our defence and I don't think Jones is the answer because who's not to say his best year are behind him and Carlton got the best of it.

[GVGjr]

What Stevo news?
Stevo thinks Dunks is less likely at the moment

[Grantysghost]

Stevo thinks Dunks is less likely at the moment

Dunks is gone.

Speaking of gone, don't forget to try our new baldness be gone hairspray. Just one spray takes the baldness away.

#promoted.

[MrMahatma]

Well, I reckon we need to get Lobb AND a good KPP or 2.

It’s going to cost us plasters or picks.

So, something has to give. I like (pretty much) all of our players, but we’re just gonna have to lose some cause we need to bring in some talent.

[Bulldog4life]

Dunks is gone.

Speaking of gone, don't forget to try our new baldness be gone hairspray. Just one spray takes the baldness away.

#promoted.
Means Libba has to play till he is 36.;)

[WBFC4FFC]

Means Libba has to play till he is 36.;)

West is ready made for the middle but Libba is another knee away from being done.

Must keep both Smith and Dunks. Right Age Bracket and great players. (Don't know why we signed-up Daniel before these two but then I am not privy to the contract details).

Having said this, if you get a massive return back for Dunks, then you seriously have to consider it, as it will help make the team better. But on paper, you keep these two and the rest of the uncontracted players are up for trade.

[EasternWest]

Can I be a broken record and put out there Smith to Sydney?

It's never stopped me.

Did I mention I don't mind players leaving for more money?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If you lined the 2 of them up against a wall who would you take right now between Dunkley and Macrae?

As a player, Dunkley.

Harder, bigger, versatile.

You know my thoughts on Jack. He's obviously a good player but I feel he's really bought in on this obsession with possession BS.

[boydogs]

Dunks has gone past Macrae IMO. Better ball winner, tackler, mark & kick for goal. Macrae is tough, runs all day, good link player and delivers well inside 50 but he's a bit slow

[mjp]

Well, I reckon we need to get Lobb AND a good KPP or 2.

It’s going to cost us plasters or picks.


I don't disagree MM but after using essentially all of our draft capital on JUH and Darcy surely we MUST DRAFT this year....

Where is our young depth? We have seen a snippet of Bedendo and a little more of Cleary but...what else ya got? Where are the up and coming mids, running defenders, developing high-half-forwards learning how to get up and back?

We have a unique opportunity at the moment to actually teach young players how to play - they will learn (a lot) off the likes of Macrae and Dunks and Treloar and Bont and....and...we have to take advantage of that.

[Bulldog4life]

West is ready made for the middle but Libba is another knee away from being done.

Must keep both Smith and Dunks. Right Age Bracket and great players. (Don't know why we signed-up Daniel before these two but then I am not privy to the contract details).

Having said this, if you get a massive return back for Dunks, then you seriously have to consider it, as it will help make the team better. But on paper, you keep these two and the rest of the uncontracted players are up for trade.

Agree 100%.

[azabob]

It's never stopped me.

Did I mention I don't mind players leaving for more money?

Sydney realestate is next level though.

[GVGjr]

I don't disagree MM but after using essentially all of our draft capital on JUH and Darcy surely we MUST DRAFT this year....

Where is our young depth? We have seen a snippet of Bedendo and a little more of Cleary but...what else ya got? Where are the up and coming mids, running defenders, developing high-half-forwards learning how to get up and back?

We have a unique opportunity at the moment to actually teach young players how to play - they will learn (a lot) off the likes of Macrae and Dunks and Treloar and Bont and....and...we have to take advantage of that.

Agree that we need to use some draft picks to keep the talented youngsters coming in. It appears Jones will be a bit of a freebie for us so if we can get a decent deal from Freo for Lobb we will probably make that bid.
There is speculation that Hunter and Williams might be looking to move so assuming we get something decent in return we could have a few picks this year and reinvesting in some younger talent.

[josie]

Anything known where Williams might want to go? Wonder what he is worth. His role on wing has rejuvenated him, especially his role in Melbourne game.

[Bulldog4life]

Agree that we need to use some draft picks to keep the talented youngsters coming in. It appears Jones will be a bit of a freebie for us so if we can get a decent deal from Freo for Lobb we will probably make that bid.
There is speculation that Hunter and Williams might be looking to move so assuming we get something decent in return we could have a few picks this year and reinvesting in some younger talent.

I must be out of the loop G. I haven't read this anywhere. Where did you get it from?

[GVGjr]

I must be out of the loop G. I haven't read this anywhere. Where did you get it from?

It's just speculation that has been floating around. The speculation is Hunter might be keen on a move to Essendon, not sure about Williams.

[1eyedog]

Agree that we need to use some draft picks to keep the talented youngsters coming in. It appears Jones will be a bit of a freebie for us so if we can get a decent deal from Freo for Lobb we will probably make that bid.
There is speculation that Hunter and Williams might be looking to move so assuming we get something decent in return we could have a few picks this year and reinvesting in some younger talent.

I mean we do, but how about a really good experienced CHB (not incl. Jones a free stop gap), a really, really good crumb forward (missed out on Stengle but who is good that may be prized out?). Love Rankine but he'll probably go home, but on a big money offer would he? Think if Hunter goes we need a replacement, that could be Macrae on a wing providing opportunities in the middle for Adz, Westy. Critical that we keep one of Dunks or Smith, preferably both but I feel Dunks is gone.

With the list we got, I'm ok with turning our back on the draft for a year or two and having a crack to buy a flag in the next 1-3 years. If we're going to do that though we need to buy a really good key defensive player in his mid-20s and a good opportunistic forward on the return we get from Hunter / Dunkley / Smith.

It's not draft at all costs for me from here.

[GVGjr]

I mean we do, but how about a really good experienced CHB (not incl. Jones a free stop gap), a really, really good crumb forward (missed out on Stengle but who is good that may be prized out?). Love Rankine but he'll probably go home, but on a big money offer would he? Think if Hunter goes we need a replacement, that could be Macrae on a wing providing opportunities in the middle for Adz, Westy. Critical that we keep one of Dunks or Smith, preferably both but I feel Dunks is gone.

With the list we got, I'm ok with turning our back on the draft for a year or two and having a crack to buy a flag in the next 1-3 years. If we're going to do that though we need to buy a really good key defensive player in his mid-20s and a good opportunistic forward on the return we get from Hunter / Dunkley / Smith.

It's not draft at all costs for me from here.

This is where an honest and accurate assessment of the playing list and the character of this group needs to factor into a decision to step back from the draft and have an all out crack at it. The club needs to make an informed decision and not just think that say adding Jones and Lobb will make as a genuine top 4 side if that really isn't the case.

If Jones is a freebie for us it sort of makes sense although a year out might really work against him.
If Freo is reasonable with their requirements to trade Lobb and Lobb isn't going to break the bank for us to bring him in then okay that makes some sense as well.
I'm seeing some gaps in the list though that I really think need to be balanced more by the draft table than 3 or 4 trade scenario's.

It will be interesting to see if the club could commit to an all out crack at the next 2 seasons or if they will take the safer option of a more balanced trade and draft strategy.

[The Doctor]

surely we MUST DRAFT this year....

Where is our young depth?

I'd like to pick this up and run with it as I agree. In fact I posted in another thread recently that we should even consider splitting our first round pick in order to add more young depth to our squad.

Since our premiership in 2016 there have been 6 trade/draft periods. The following has happened in terms of player acquisitions;

- Only 10 youngsters recruited in the top 40 of any of these drafts
- Only 3 youngsters in the last 3 drafts in the top 40
- 24 youngsters overall recruited of which 17 remain.


I'll break it down further

* Of the 10 youngsters recruited in the top 40 since 2016, 9 remain, they are an excellent batch;

English, Naughton, Richards, Smith, West, Vandermeer, Weightman, Ugle-Hagen, Darcy.

Lipinski traded in 2021.

That, on paper as some are still emerging, looks like a mighty future core if we can keep them together.
Only problem is. No specialist key defenders.

* Of the 24 youngsters recruited overall of which 17 remain, 9 are included above, the others are;

Khamis, Butler, Garcia, Bedendo, McNeill, Jones, Cleary, Raak

Lewis Young & Lachie Young were traded, Tweedie, Greene, Mullenger McHugh, Porter were delisted

Once again no key defenders.

* In summary in the last 6 trade draft periods we have remaining on our list

9 x high end draftees (picked inside top 40)
8 x draftees acquired later in the national or rookies drafts
No key defenders
Only 3 high end picks in last 3 drafts

It just goes to show the value of high level draft picks. Our selections have been on the money but overall it's a low number in my view. Our list strategy has come up short on key defenders. This is the draft where we must do it. We have probably over relied on trade acquisitions and recruiting mature agers from state leagues in this same period.

Our current crop of key defenders; Keath, Cordy, Gardner are fair players respectively but none were high end selections. Adding Jones might help short term but does nothing for the medium longer term.

Adding young key defenders to emerge while we have such quality high end key position players who are still young is essential for our future prosperity and the opportunity of sustained success.

I would like to add a genuine small/medium forward or two to our must get list as well! I won't go into that now as I have been on about it for about 4 years!

[EasternWest]

Sydney realestate is next level though.

Alright so just a Bondi apartment then.

[bornadog]

Good summary Doc? Where does Sweet fit in?

I agree we need to draft some Key Pos Defenders but we should also be recruiting some young ruckman - at least in the rookie draft.

[The Doctor]

Good summary Doc? Where does Sweet fit in?

I agree we need to draft some Key Pos Defenders but we should also be recruiting some young ruckman - at least in the rookie draft.

I included Sweet in the mature age state league players as he had played a couple of seasons on the SANFL prior to being rookie drafted. My Draftees were teenagers hence the inclusion of McNeill.

We can look deeper into the list and work out other areas of future need for sure. I put KP Defenders as a matter of priority.

[1eyedog]

I'd like to pick this up and run with it as I agree. In fact I posted in another thread recently that we should even consider splitting our first round pick in order to add more young depth to our squad.

Since our premiership in 2016 there have been 6 trade/draft periods. The following has happened in terms of player acquisitions;

- Only 10 youngsters recruited in the top 40 of any of these drafts
- Only 3 youngsters in the last 3 drafts in the top 40
- 24 youngsters overall recruited of which 17 remain.


I'll break it down further

* Of the 10 youngsters recruited in the top 40 since 2016, 9 remain, they are an excellent batch;

English, Naughton, Richards, Smith, West, Vandermeer, Weightman, Ugle-Hagen, Darcy.

Lipinski traded in 2021.

That, on paper as some are still emerging, looks like a mighty future core if we can keep them together.
Only problem is. No specialist key defenders.

* Of the 24 youngsters recruited overall of which 17 remain, 9 are included above, the others are;

Khamis, Butler, Garcia, Bedendo, McNeill, Jones, Cleary, Raak

Lewis Young & Lachie Young were traded, Tweedie, Greene, Mullenger McHugh, Porter were delisted

Once again no key defenders.

* In summary in the last 6 trade draft periods we have remaining on our list

9 x high end draftees (picked inside top 40)
8 x draftees acquired later in the national or rookies drafts
No key defenders
Only 3 high end picks in last 3 drafts

It just goes to show the value of high level draft picks. Our selections have been on the money but overall it's a low number in my view. Our list strategy has come up short on key defenders. This is the draft where we must do it. We have probably over relied on trade acquisitions and recruiting mature agers from state leagues in this same period.

Our current crop of key defenders; Keath, Cordy, Gardner are fair players respectively but none were high end selections. Adding Jones might help short term but does nothing for the medium longer term.

Adding young key defenders to emerge while we have such quality high end key position players who are still young is essential for our future prosperity and the opportunity of sustained success.

I would like to add a genuine small/medium forward or two to our must get list as well! I won't go into that now as I have been on about it for about 4 years!

This is a great assessment and overall summary of the success of our trading strategy across the last 5 years. I'm a bit different on it. By the time these new draftees are ready to play (3/4 years for KPP to impact you'd think?) Bont will be 30, Macrae 32, Treloar 33 and Daniel and Dale 30 with Keath, Libba and Bruce obviously long gone. Treloar will probably be gone as well. And who are the quality young KPP players you're referring to in our back half, or do you mean Naughton and Jamarra? Maybe Darcy as a CHB?

I'm really hoping to maximise Bont's Goldilocks zone as a 25-28 year old in particular by bringing quality players into our areas of need i.e. a quality mid-20s key defender and a quality mid-20s crumbing forward (as a guide). Happy to use our high draft picks to secure them. For me, given the quality of our list right now and the few glaring holes we have, the time to do this is now. The draft is too conservative for where we are with our list imo. I'm not talking about taking a Geelong-like trade strategy I want the club to go hard with decent coin and decent picks on very specific players who will play at the club at a high level for 5 years. Are these types available / gettable? Let's see but we'll need to give something great to get something great.

I'm not debating the value of high draft picks with an eye to the long term but I'd prefer to be aggressive now and sit in the bottom half of the ladder in 4/5 years if an aggressive trade strategy gets us another look or two at another Premiership in the next 1-4 years. There is also high value in Treloar-like trades as well and I'd prefer not to wait until Bont et al. are 30+ to determine whether our 2022 draft crop are going to be any good or not.

I guess I want the club to roll the dice and jag another one rather than worry about where we are on the ladder in 5 years when our stars light is fading. This is the best list I've ever seen.

For the record I am a 100% advocate for drafting and developing our own and am going out on a limb here.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Good posts by Doc and 1ED.

There's a chance we can do both - the whole chew gum and walk at the same time philosophy.

If we have a draft pick in the top 10 (most likely) we could split this for 2 picks, or simply draft the best possible kid along with acquiring Lobb/Jones and hopefully something else.

[bornadog]

Good posts by Doc and 1ED.

There's a chance we can do both - the whole chew gum and walk at the same time philosophy.

If we have a draft pick in the top 10 (most likely) we could split this for 2 picks, or simply draft the best possible kid along with acquiring Lobb/Jones and hopefully something else.

I don't know who is out there, but can we use our pick 1 to secure a 25/26 year old CHB? or grab a De Goey type who will kick goals.

[EasternWest]

I don't know who is out there, but can we use our pick 1 to secure a 25/26 year old CHB? or grab a De Goey type who will kick goals.

If we even consider de Goey I'm out.

[GVGjr]

Good posts by Doc and 1ED.

There's a chance we can do both - the whole chew gum and walk at the same time philosophy.

If we have a draft pick in the top 10 (most likely) we could split this for 2 picks, or simply draft the best possible kid along with acquiring Lobb/Jones and hopefully something else.

I tend to think we can do both but I'd really like to think through the option of splitting the first round pick.
Is potentially passing over a likely A grader for likely two B graders a good idea for us?
It could very well be but it's doesn't necessarily mean you resolve gaps in the list.

When we split the pick and passed over Curnow in 2015 and got Dunkley and Collins we didn't really maximise the extra pick. Had Sydney matched that pick I think we would have gone for Marcus Adams and Collins.

Are we more likely to get value out of a top 10 pick than two in the mid 20's?
Would we be better served trying to move up the draft order?

Our whole list strategy for us really depends on what is happening with Dunkley and potentially Smith and if there is any substance to the Hunter and Williams speculation that they might want to explore other clubs.

There is a bit to play out here but plenty of options to consider.

[hujsh]

Depending on the draft we could find someone able to play in a premiership side right away. Look at Selwood, Rioli, Rioli again. If we want a small forward or mid with our first pick it might be a better option than trading.

[Axe Man]

If we even consider de Goey I'm out.

Well BAD did say a De Goey type. Soooo, Jake Stringer? Toby Greene?

[bornadog]

Well BAD did say a De Goey type. Soooo, Jake Stringer? Toby Greene?

We need a good half forward flanker that kicks goals.

[Mofra]

We need a good half forward flanker that kicks goals.
Wingard...

[kruder]

Anyone find it humorous that we don't need a key forward? I can't remember ever thinking that before.

Hallelujah !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Axe Man]

We need a good half forward flanker that kicks goals.

Cody Weightman?

[Grantysghost]

Cody Weightman?

We need a small Pickett type don't we.

I reckon Bedendo might be a good half forward/wing.

[Bullies]

We need a small Pickett type don't we.

I reckon Bedendo might be a good half forward/wing. Give Arthur a bit of time and a full pre season. He can play the boy. He will be perfect for the Pickett type role.

[Grantysghost]

Give Arthur a bit of time and a full pre season. He can play the boy. He will be perfect for the Pickett type role.

Bullies - firstly, you need an avatar :)

Second, I reckon he's more the ideal wing prototype.

Think Jetta Swans from naughties.

Wing/half forward.

[EasternWest]

Well BAD did say a De Goey type. Soooo, Jake Stringer? Toby Greene?

I just don't want de Goey because then I'd have to talk footy with his boofhead Dad (who I actually don't mind at all, but he is a boofhead).

[soupman]

If we do end up losing Dunkley (and maybe Smith) is Blake Acres another worth looking at?

His name seems to come up as someone who might be squeezed out by Jackson. I'll admit I haven't really watched him a lot, but he is a big body (who St.Kilda often employed in the Dunkley backup ruck role), has played 115 games both forward and midfield, and seems to me to be a really solid second tier type player to support your guns.

If he is going cheaply I think he could be of interest, and at 26 is in his prime.

[Axe Man]

Yes to Acres if cheap. Not that I’ve seen much of him but from all reports was one of the best wingers going around early in the season before he got injured.

[bornadog]

Wingard...

underwhelming

[GVGjr]

If we do end up losing Dunkley (and maybe Smith) is Blake Acres another worth looking at?

His name seems to come up as someone who might be squeezed out by Jackson. I'll admit I haven't really watched him a lot, but he is a big body (who St.Kilda often employed in the Dunkley backup ruck role), has played 115 games both forward and midfield, and seems to me to be a really solid second tier type player to support your guns.

If he is going cheaply I think he could be of interest, and at 26 is in his prime.

If we were to lose Dunkley then I'd do a bit of a u-turn and chase draft picks more than player trades. Acres has had a good year and would provide a bit more than just depth player addition but is this something he can back up?

[1eyedog]

Wingard...

Should have went harder when he was in our sights. Maybe we did though and what he wanted we just couldn't provide? Would have been far more useful to us than Hawthorn.

[GVGjr]

Should have went harder when he was in our sights.

Match winning type player but I doubt we could have gone much harder. We probably wouldn't have been able to land Baz.

[kruder]

If we do end up losing Dunkley (and maybe Smith) is Blake Acres another worth looking at?

His name seems to come up as someone who might be squeezed out by Jackson. I'll admit I haven't really watched him a lot, but he is a big body (who St.Kilda often employed in the Dunkley backup ruck role), has played 115 games both forward and midfield, and seems to me to be a really solid second tier type player to support your guns.

If he is going cheaply I think he could be of interest, and at 26 is in his prime.

Soup if we lost both Dunkley and Smith I reckon the joint gets burned down before you get a chance to recruit anyone.

In all seriousness a royal commission at a minimum.

[boydogs]

When we split the pick and passed over Curnow in 2015 and got Dunkley and Collins we didn't really maximise the extra pick. Had Sydney matched that pick I think we would have gone for Marcus Adams and Collins

I thought the justification at the time was we wanted Collins at 11 anyway. Which probably explains why we have been scarred from drafting KPD's ever since

[GVGjr]

I thought the justification at the time was we wanted Collins at 11 anyway. Which probably explains why we have been scarred from drafting KPD's ever since

I remember reading the same. Only a few might know if it's true.

I think we might also have some challenges developing key position players and prefer to trade for players from other sides.

[1eyedog]

Is there any interest from Woofers for Willie Rioli? He's not signing the contract in front of him.

[1eyedog]

Should have went harder when he was in our sights. Maybe we did though and what he wanted we just couldn't provide? Would have been far more useful to us than Hawthorn.

Just saw what Hawthorn gave up for him a solid player (Burton) and a first rounder, no thanks.

[The Doctor]

I'd really like to think through the option of splitting the first round pick.
Is potentially passing over a likely A grader for likely two B graders a good idea for us?
It could very well be but it's doesn't necessarily mean you resolve gaps in the list.

When we split the pick and passed over Curnow in 2015 and got Dunkley and Collins we didn't really maximise the extra pick. Had Sydney matched that pick I think we would have gone for Marcus Adams and Collins.

Are we more likely to get value out of a top 10 pick than two in the mid 20's?



The idea of splitting the first round pick will depend upon the circumstances.

In 2015 when we traded pick 11 for picks 25 & 26 the circumstances were different. There was no live trading and we had Jason McCartney calling the shots. I hated that trade then and I still hate it now.

Currently, but with 3 rounds still to be played, our 1st round pick is at number 9. With live trading available and the real opportunity of impulse buying by desperate clubs we could possibly get a more favourable deal. You wouldn't do it otherwise would you? J-Mac was a pushover. Sam Power isn't and is a lot more shrewd at the negotiating table.

Here's a hypothetical.

Dogs plan is to pick a jet with their first pick and then bolster key defensive & ruck positions in this draft.

The Dogs plan A is they have a particular player in mind for their first pick. But he gets picked before its our turn. Plan B is anyone interested in buying our first pick? Who's interested? We will have sewn the seeds pre draft. There is certain to be offers by clubs looking to move up the order. Lets say West Coast chimes in with an offer of 20 & 25 because Hewitt is still available. Or Pies throw in 16 + 42 or future 2nd round because Jefferson is still available. We could just say 'sorry guys, we're using the pick unless you come up with something better".

Swans meanwhile are keen to get pick 9 because the gun they thought would be gone by now is still there. 15 & 17 are now on the table. Dogs keen to bolster their key position stocks believe potential targets Hayes, Weddle & Barnett could all still be available at those selections but none will be at our next pick at 27. Do we take the offer?

Live trading has changed the ball game. In the Bailey Smith draft GWS is said to have offered us picks 9 & 19 for pick 7. Dogs were keen as they were confident Smith would be there at 9. I remember this and was hoping it would happen. It didn't in the end as GWS dealt elsewhere. I can't vouch for the entire accuracy of this story but this is what can happen. Some of the live trading deals in it's short history have been unbelievable.

We only do it if it is to our 'certain' advantage.

[GVGjr]

Is there any interest from Woofers for Willie Rioli? He's not signing the contract in front of him.

Talented enough player but it would have to be regarded as a risky addition.
Who would he replace?

[Axe Man]

Just saw what Hawthorn gave up for him a solid player (Burton) and a first rounder, no thanks.

I'm not sure if it was ever determined conclusively if we were offering that years first pick (Smith), or the following years first pick (Weightman). Either way, in hindsight I think we were better off missing out on Wingard.

[GVGjr]

The idea of splitting the first round pick will depend upon the circumstances.

In 2015 when we traded pick 11 for picks 25 & 26 the circumstances were different. There was no live trading and we had Jason McCartney calling the shots. I hated that trade then and I still hate it now.

Currently, but with 3 rounds still to be played, our 1st round pick is at number 9. With live trading available and the real opportunity of impulse buying by desperate clubs we could possibly get a more favourable deal. You wouldn't do it otherwise would you? J-Mac was a pushover. Sam Power isn't and is a lot more shrewd at the negotiating table.

Here's a hypothetical.

Dogs plan is to pick a jet with their first pick and then bolster key defensive & ruck positions in this draft.

The Dogs plan A is they have a particular player in mind for their first pick. But he gets picked before its our turn. Plan B is anyone interested in buying our first pick? Who's interested? We will have sewn the seeds pre draft. There is certain to be offers by clubs looking to move up the order. Lets say West Coast chimes in with an offer of 20 & 25 because Hewitt is still available. Or Pies throw in 16 + 42 or future 2nd round because Jefferson is still available. We could just say 'sorry guys, we're using the pick unless you come up with something better".

Swans meanwhile are keen to get pick 9 because the gun they thought would be gone by now is still there. 15 & 17 are now on the table. Dogs keen to bolster their key position stocks believe potential targets Hayes, Weddle & Barnett could all still be available at those selections but none will be at our next pick at 27. Do we take the offer?

Live trading has changed the ball game. In the Bailey Smith draft GWS is said to have offered us picks 9 & 19 for pick 7. Dogs were keen as they were confident Smith would be there at 9. I remember this and was hoping it would happen. It didn't in the end as GWS dealt elsewhere. I can't vouch for the entire accuracy of this story but this is what can happen. Some of the live trading deals in it's short history have been unbelievable.

We only do it if it is to our 'certain' advantage.

Terrific post Doc, thanks for generating some thought starters.

I heard something similar regarding the super draft and GWS. That would have been an exciting deal and might have been hard to pass on and yes being able to swap picks on draft night could very well change the dynamics of a potential exchange of picks with another club.
In some aspects if a club is willing to pay another club 'overs' to move up the draft order it creates opportunities for a club to take advantage of it.

I think this is a very good draft and it's why I'm not that keen to trade away picks for players. If we have our heart set on Lobb then so be it but I still wouldn't over pay for him.
Quality and depth wise I rate this draft as a far better one than 12 months ago but it will start to thin out somewhere in the 2nd round and likely further again from pick 45 or so.

I'm not sure if we will we go into the draft process with a list ranking players 1 to 100 and check them off as they're selected or if we will target certain players and try and jump on them as early as we can.
It really depends on how we assess the strength of the playing list and if we are prepared to move off a typical best available approach. A wish list that has a degree of flexibility would be the way to go in my opinion.

Like most years we have a few needs. From my perspective it includes a key position defender, a defender who can defend players 1 v 1 and some midfield/forward type depth plus it would be hard to pass up on an emerging ruck man so whatever approach that strengthens that aim is worth considering.

With some questions marks on if Dunkley, Hunter and Williams will stick with us we could end up having a few picks to work with.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Am I right in thinking that changes to the NGA bidding process, making it harder to acquire NGA talent rated in the first two rounds of the draft, means that teams wont be trading as many picks for points at this years draft?

[Mantis]

Am I right in thinking that changes to the NGA bidding process, making it harder to acquire NGA talent rated in the first two rounds of the draft, means that teams wont be trading as many picks for points at this years draft?

Still need to do it for F/S picks which means that Bris will be on the hunt for points if Ashcroft wants to join that club.

[Danjul]

Terrific post Doc, thanks for generating some thought starters.


With some questions marks on if Dunkley, Hunter and Williams will stick with us we could end up having a few picks to work with.

Why would Williams want to leave a team that made the grand final last year? Is there anything that suggests that this might happen?

[soupman]

Why would Williams want to leave a team that made the grand final last year?

Kind of insignificant when that team (probably) misses finals the next year, and as he is a classic 10-15 best player if a good offer comes his way (and maybe a return to his home state of SA) it makes sense he would be open to it.

[GVGjr]

Why would Williams want to leave a team that made the grand final last year? Is there anything that suggests that this might happen?

Just some speculation that's been floating around. I wouldn't want to lose him.

[1eyedog]

Talented enough player but it would have to be regarded as a risky addition.
Who would he replace?

Whoever is playing our small defensive forward role. McNeil and JJ have been in this role at times this year so we would need to see a defensive mindset shift from that role to one that is more attacking. Not sure who goes to the opposition's gun HB if this happens though.

Bevo has been good with the Indigenous boys, actually the entire club has over the past 5 years.

[bornadog]

Whoever is playing our small defensive forward role. McNeil and JJ have been in this role at times this year so we would need to see a defensive mindset shift from that role to one that is more attacking. Not sure who goes to the opposition's gun HB if this happens though.

Bevo has been good with the Indigenous boys, actually the entire club has over the past 5 years.

I would take him.

[Happy Days]

Would love to get Willie Rioli. Don’t think that West Coast have gotten the most out of him and that he can be a far more dynamic player if he’s allowed further out from goal.

[azabob]

Would love to get Willie Rioli. Don’t think that West Coast have gotten the most out of him and that he can be a far more dynamic player if he’s allowed further out from goal.

Lets go for both Rioli and Ryan.

[jeemak]

Lets go for both Rioli and Ryan.

And Goldstein and McCartin.

[SquirrelGrip]

Lets go for both Rioli and Ryan.

So a forward line with Rioli, Ryan, Naughton, Marra and Weightman! Who would win Mark of the Year?


https://youtu.be/_V1rTCkluwk

[Axe Man]

Ladies and Gentleman, I give you Mr Matthew Rendell...

WHAT PORT SHOULD GIVE UP FOR DUNKLEY AND THE “BIG ISSUE” SURROUNDING FANTASIA
(https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/08/04/what-port-should-give-up-for-dunkley-and-the-big-issue-surrounding-fantasia/)
Port Adelaide remains linked with Western Bulldogs midfielder Josh Dunkley.

The out-of-contract 25-year-old is yet to re-commit to the Bulldogs who have reportedly offered him a long-term deal.

Dunkley is on the radar of the Power, but what would they have to give up to get him to Alberton?

Matt Rendell speculated about what would be a fair trade for the 112-game premiership Dog.

“Dunkley has been talked about a lot,” Rendell said on SEN SA’s The Run Home.

“I think Dunkley is a good pick if they can get him, but I wouldn’t be offering any more than a second-round (pick).

“They (the Dogs) wanted two first (rounders) off Essendon a couple of years ago.

“Dunkley is out of contract, so Port can walk him to the pre-season (draft) if they want. They won’t want to.”

There are plenty of clubs who are reportedly keen on Dunkley with Adelaide and Port as well as big Victorian clubs showing interest.

While Dunkley would provide plenty of midfield depth for Port, a position they need strengthening is in the area of the small forward.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Ladies and Gentleman, I give you Mr Matthew Rendell...



Its special work

[GVGjr]

Port currently don't have a 2nd round pick but a 2nd rounder could very well be their starting point.
Letting him walk into the pre-season draft when North have the first pick and Adelaide pick before them wouldn't be smart by Port.

[Happy Days]

“Port can walk him to the pre season draft” where they currently have what pick 8?

[The Doctor]

Since our premiership in 2016 there have been 6 trade/draft periods. The following has happened in terms of player acquisitions;

- Only 10 youngsters recruited in the top 40 of any of these drafts
- Only 3 youngsters in the last 3 drafts in the top 40


I'd like to add further to my post #818 supporting the need for more quality youth coming into the club this recruiting/trade period (and beyond). This post had a look at what we have done in terms of recruiting youngsters into our club since we won the premiership in 2016. The following post will look at the other end of the list, the older players and what lies ahead.


The Veterans

As it stands now, there would be 9 players if retained on our list beyond 2022 who would be 30+ next season;

Treloar, Wallis, Martin, Crozier, Duryea, Bruce, Liberatore, Johannisen, Keath

How many of these will be on the list next year? How many beyond 2023? The only certainty beyond then would be Treloar as he will have only completed 3 years of his 5 year contract.

According to reports we will be recruiting Lobb 30 and Liam Jones 32 on 3 year deals to add to our veteran category.

In 2021 when we made the Grand Final we had just 3 players in the team that were 30+. In 2016 we also had just 3 players who were 30+ in our premiership winning team.

Coming up behind them is the next layer of senior players who will be 29 next year;

Hunter, Hannan, Macrae, O’Brien

Macrae aside, will the others be be on the list beyond next year?

Our 2022 list is getting older. Most of our veterans are feeling the pinch or are in/out of the team. Does anyone think any of them could be a premiership player like Morris or Matty Boyd at the age of 34? It is most conceivable that the majority of the bolded players above will have retired or be moved on if not this year then almost certainly by the end of the 2023 season. Then we also have the likelihood of players not on this list being traded out and other younger players being delisted. So we are potentially looking at a major transition of the list in the next year or two.

The great thing about our list is the strength of our 'in their prime' or coming 'into their prime' players led by Bont, Dale, English, Dunkley, Smith, Daniel, Naughton etc who have many years ahead of them. It is important we retain the likes of Smith, Dunkley and West. Note that all these players were all drafted by the Bulldogs. Our premiership team had 19/22 Bulldog draftees in it & Tom Boyd was a 2nd year player when he joined us. It was a fairly young side.

We have some big decisions to make. The club, despite our wobbly season this year, is well in the premiership window. We have Lobb and Jones incoming as senior players to help with that challenge, but unless there is a super young player (like Boyd) that addresses a need we should be hitting the draft hard and bring in more quality youngsters to learn from the likes of Bont, Naughts and co while they are in their prime. It will give us a refresh and bring in some youthful exuberance. It can be catchy.

[The Doctor]

Ladies and Gentleman, I give you Mr Matthew Rendell...


Did someone leave the gate to the nursing home open again?

[Happy Days]

Seriously what is going on with Smith. It’s Round 21, he’s one of the most high profile players in the AFL and there is no noise anywhere about him.

[bornadog]

Did someone leave the gate to the nursing home open again?

Reading the article, he says nothing

[Axe Man]

Seriously what is going on with Smith. It’s Round 21, he’s one of the most high profile players in the AFL and there is no noise anywhere about him.

Not sure what the delay is but the lack of noise is comforting to me. No smoke, no fire hopefully. Not much gets past the footy media in these situations so if there was anything to worry about surely we would be hearing something?

[GVGjr]

Not sure what the delay is but the lack of noise is comforting to me. No smoke, no fire hopefully. Not much gets past the footy media in these situations so if there was anything to worry about surely we would be hearing something?

It's really surprising that no one is concerned about Smith and yet there is a fair level of acceptance that Dunkley is gone...and that we will probably get screwed in any deal.

[azabob]

Reading the article, he says nothing

It isn't an article.

It is a transcript from a radio segment...

[azabob]

It's really surprising that no one is concerned about Smith and yet there is a fair level of acceptance that Dunkley is gone...and that we will probably get screwed in any deal.

I guess my Sydney rantings don't count?

[bornadog]

It isn't an article.

It is a transcript from a radio segment...

An article from the radio

[GVGjr]

I guess my Sydney rantings don't count?

Of course it does, the fact that Franklin is going frees up some coin for them to have a crack at a deal.
I canvassed some people on Twitter yesterday though and based on the feedback the consensus is Dunkley is gone and we will likely be screwed but no one is concerned that Smith remains unsigned.

[Mantis]

Of course it does, the fact that Franklin is going frees up some coin for them to have a crack at a deal.
I canvassed some people on Twitter yesterday though and based on the feedback the consensus is Dunkley is gone and we will likely be screwed but no one is concerned that Smith remains unsigned.

Why is it expected that we will be screwed? I can't recall a trade in recent years where we haven't received an acceptable deal and have full faith that if Dunks decides to depart that our team will get fair trade value for him.

[The Doctor]

I canvassed some people on Twitter yesterday though and based on the feedback the consensus is Dunkley is gone and we will likely be screwed but no one is concerned that Smith remains unsigned.

Which people?

[hujsh]

Of course it does, the fact that Franklin is going frees up some coin for them to have a crack at a deal.
I canvassed some people on Twitter yesterday though and based on the feedback the consensus is Dunkley is gone and we will likely be screwed but no one is concerned that Smith remains unsigned.

Well there's your problem.

I'd expect we'll get a first round pick for Dunkley at least. We have some bargaining power but obviously not 2020 levels.

And hey if we get a first rounder (currently a top 10 pick for Port) for him that's not far away from Essendon's offer of one top ten pick in 2020.

Would be nice to get a little extra but a top ten pick to go with our existing first round pick, second rounder and North's third is a good batch for getting some real talent into the team.

[Happy Days]

Soup’s idea of their first and Drew is growing on me. At the very least we can pull an Essendon with Drew and pretend he’s better than Dunkley for the rest of their careers.

[GVGjr]

Why is it expected that we will be screwed? I can't recall a trade in recent years where we haven't received an acceptable deal and have full faith that if Dunks decides to depart that our team will get fair trade value for him.

I have no idea why some people see it that way, we probably won't get what we want for Dunks but will do better than the original offer.
I still think we have a good chance of him signing up again and if he does want to leave the Cerra deal last year is the starting point.

[azabob]

An article from the radio

TV on the radio?

[bornadog]

TV on the radio?

Now I am confused, but who cares

[azabob]

Now I am confused, but who cares

My point is that SEN will get guests on such as Matt Rendell and then SEN will publish a summary of what was said on radio on their website.

Unsure how it can be an article when all they are doing is rehash what was said on the radio.

[bornadog]

My point is that SEN will get guests on such as Matt Rendell and then SEN will publish a summary of what was said on radio on their website.

Unsure how it can be an article when all they are doing is rehash what was said on the radio.

If it is written down, no matter the source, it is still an article.

[MrMahatma]

If it is written down, no matter the source, it is still an article.

I think that's called a transcript.

[bornadog]

I think that's called a transcript.

Ok a transcript.

[EasternWest]

Seriously what is going on with Smith. It’s Round 21, he’s one of the most high profile players in the AFL and there is no noise anywhere about him.

That's what makes me think it's a done deal despite azabob and his Jeemak "trade Dunkley" vibe with Sydney.

There's no talk about him because he's declared himself off limits.

6 year big deal incoming.

[azabob]

That's what makes me think it's a done deal despite azabob and his Jeemak "trade Dunkley" vibe with Sydney.

There's no talk about him because he's declared himself off limits.

6 year big deal incoming.

I truly hope so..

[Grantysghost]

That's what makes me think it's a done deal despite azabob and his Jeemak "trade Dunkley" vibe with Sydney.

There's no talk about him because he's declared himself off limits.

6 year big deal incoming.

I have my spies enquiring about this.

I'm not as sure as you are EW.

[jeemak]

That's what makes me think it's a done deal despite azabob and his Jeemak "trade Dunkley" vibe with Sydney.

There's no talk about him because he's declared himself off limits.

6 year big deal incoming.

I'm wondering whether aza has the requisite conviction to really push ahead with this.

[EasternWest]

I'm wondering whether aza has the requisite conviction to really push ahead with this.

If there's one thing I know about aza, it's that he's like a dog with a bone and never lets up...no wait, that's BAD.

Aza could go any way. Maybe you should teach him what it takes.

[Grantysghost]

I'm wondering whether aza has the requisite conviction to really push ahead with this.

Have you got any tips Jee for when you're doubting yourself.

You've done so well to see it through :)

[azabob]

I'm wondering whether aza has the requisite conviction to really push ahead with this.

I’ll show you… I’ll show all of you…

[Grantysghost]

I’ll show you… I’ll show all of you…

https://media.giphy.com/media/yoJC2K6rCzwNY2EngA/giphy.gif

[GVGjr]

How many players do you think will be de-listing at the end of the season?

Who are the more likely de-listings and the possible ones?

To help, I found this obscure list of who is out of contract at the end of this season. Makes me wonder why we don't use it more.

Jason Johannisen: 2022
Toby McLean: 2022
Josh Dunkley: 2022
Rhylee West: 2022
Alex Keath: 2022 - Has apparently met a trigger for another season.
Josh Schache: 2022
Bailey Smith: 2022
Louis Butler: 2022
Riley Garcia: 2022
Zaine Cordy: 2022
Taylor Duryea: 2022
Mitch Wallis: 2022
Stefan Martin: 2022
Charlie Parker: 2022 (Rookie)
Robbie McComb: 2022 (Rookie)
Cody Raak: 2022 (Rookie)

[soupman]

I think the probable departures are: Wallis, Dunkley, Hunter, Martin, Butler

And the possible ones are: Smith, Crozier (contracted so unlikely), Cordy, Schache (think at least one of these will go if we get talls in), Duryea, McLean, Williams, JJ

Think we are gonna do the Will Hayes move with McComb. Go out of our way to put games into him, hoping he becomes AFL quality, give him the one year extension then immediately decide we have no interest in playing him anymore. Kind of what we've done with Roarke Smith, we finally decided we actually rated him and gave him a 2 year contract and then completely threw away our MC objective of trying to shoehorn him into the side at all times.

Also as an aside we are gonna have some amazing Guernsey numbers to hand out this year (and not many candidates to take them). The probables alone are 3, 5, 7, 8 and 18, and possibles add 6, 9, 12, 13, 15, 16, 34 and 39 into the mix. That's basically all our most prestigious numbers.

[azabob]

Other than 2 or 3 of the unsigned list would we even bat an eyelid if they were not at the club in 2023?

[GVGjr]

At a quick guess:

Butler, Cordy, Schache, Wallis and Martin are in the most doubt and perhaps 2 or 3 out of Johannisen, Dunkley, Hunter and Williams will be gone as well.
I also wonder about if Duryea plays on? Very good player but is struggling to play enough games.

What might happen to our rookies?
Parker has really struggled with injuries, McComb has played a lot but there has to be some doubts and Raak hasn't shown a great deal.
They probably all stay with just a slight doubt on Raak.

So to me it looks like 7 players might be moved meaning that we might bring in 3 players from other teams leaving 4 players from the draft.

[soupman]

What might happen to our rookies?
Parker has really struggled with injuries, McComb has played a lot but there has to be some doubts and Raak hasn't shown a great deal.
They probably all stay with just a slight doubt on Raak.


We are super un-ruthless with fringe types so McComb will get another contract you'd expect. Raak is cat B so "free" to keep on, and Parker has shown some good signs so seems unlikely to be cut.

[G-Mo77]

We've locked in Bailey Smith!!

https://i.ibb.co/YRfzXMP/FZnh-FK8ac-AAwjz-D.jpg

[GVGjr]

From David King (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/08/08/the-bulldogs-trade-link-king-doesnt-understand/)

The Western Bulldogs’ final hopes are now in the hands of fate following their loss to Fremantle on Saturday.

The Round 21 loss was a demoralising one for Dogs fans, as the Dockers kicked their way through Luke Beveridge’s set-up with ease.

The side’s defensive system across the ground broke down again. Since the bye, they’ve conceded 94+ points on six ocassions, the latest 17-point defeat coming after Fremantle kicked nine first-half goals.

The Dogs have been linked with two main targets in the upcoming trade period, one of which is former Carlton defender Liam Jones.

Jones is reported to have been enticed by a three-year deal from the Dogs and will likely sign with them when the trade period opens in October, a recruit King is supportive of.

“I understand (the play for) Jones, I 100 per cent understand because they need a key post defender that can play on a man and still beat that guy and intercept,” King said on SEN’s Whateley.

“They’re a hard combination to find, and when you find them, you hang onto them. So Jones is that man.

“I don’t know whether he’s too old or past his best or whatever but the product we saw at Carlton 18 months ago is that guy.”

But the dual-premiership Kangaroo was far less positive about the club’s links to Dockers tall Rory Lobb.

Lobb is under contract with Fremantle but will reportedly pursue a move away from the club again after almost joining GWS last year.

The Dogs have confirmed interest in Lobb. However, he’d join Aaron Naughton, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and Josh Bruce in an already top-heavy forward line.

Sam Darcy is also touted as a forward but debuted in defence for the Dogs on Saturday evening.

“(The play for) Lobb I don’t understand because I think they’ve got that player, they’ve got a few of that player,” King continued.

“What does that look like? Does Darcy go forward next year and replace Bruce and they go younger again? You can’t have Jones, (Alex) Keath and Darcy (in the backline), it’s too tall.”

Lobb kicked four goals for Fremantle on Saturday to be the best forward on the ground.

If they are to play in September, the Dogs will need wins against GWS and Hawthorn and rely on other results going in their favour.

However, just scraping into the finals won’t cover up a subpar season after playing in last year’s Grand Final.

“So I don’t know how it’s going to look next year, all I know is the way they set up this year, they don’t win the ball back in their midzone of the field, which means the pressure is on their back six constantly and they’re not good enough to handle that level of pressure,” King concluded.

“They’ve been awful as a one-on-one defence. You had to make a decision, you either cut the supply or support back. They’ve done neither, and that’s why they find themselves where they are on the AFL table.”

Carlton and Richmond need just one more win to sink the Dogs’ final hopes, while St Kilda requires two wins to feature in September given their inferior percentage.

[azabob]

From David King (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/08/08/the-bulldogs-trade-link-king-doesnt-understand/)


However, just scraping into the finals won’t cover up a subpar season after playing in last year’s Grand Final.

“So I don’t know how it’s going to look next year, all I know is the way they set up this year, they don’t win the ball back in their midzone of the field, which means the pressure is on their back six constantly and they’re not good enough to handle that level of pressure,” King concluded.

“They’ve been awful as a one-on-one defence. You had to make a decision, you either cut the supply or support back. They’ve done neither, and that’s why they find themselves where they are on the AFL table.”

[/I]

Thanks for posting this transcript.

In all seriousness if you haven't listened to the audio you should. He touches on a couple of other points around our system and strategy needs to change.

A few media heads (ex-players) were fairly scathing of our performance on the weekend.

[Bulldog4life]

Thanks for posting this transcript.

In all seriousness if you haven't listened to the audio you should. He touches on a couple of other points around our system and strategy needs to change.

A few media heads (ex-players) were fairly scathing of our performance on the weekend.

My wife's happy. No footy shows this week. Hooray.

[GVGjr]

Thanks for posting this transcript.

In all seriousness if you haven't listened to the audio you should. He touches on a couple of other points around our system and strategy needs to change.

A few media heads (ex-players) were fairly scathing of our performance on the weekend.

Agree, plenty of what King raises have been said on here over the last few days. If anyone wants to listen to what Aza referred to use the link and and fast forward to around the 33 minute mark where the discussions move towards the Dogs.

[kruder]

It was obvious to anyone at the ground that it was a complete system break down, there I no doubt about it. As I said on the day it felt like I was watching Essendon defensively and says it all IMO.


I agree with MJP, a plug and play option won't fix our issue( I still think its the most talented list we have ever had) but I still think attitude, collaboration and a united group can help make Bevo's job a little easier going forward.

A player like Keath for example, I know he might be following instructions but at some point in that game I'm going F##K the grid I'm just going to man up on that short lead it has been killing us all game.

Pendles on Friday night, instead of staying in grid formation, he knew they would come inside to Trak and he just took away that option. Thats bloody leadership, we need to see more of it from our group.

[FrediKanoute]

Thanks for posting this transcript.

In all seriousness if you haven't listened to the audio you should. He touches on a couple of other points around our system and strategy needs to change.

A few media heads (ex-players) were fairly scathing of our performance on the weekend.

Kingy makes some really good points. The Lobb situation is interesting. I wonder whether Bruce will call time or the match committee think Bruce will call time next year if his body doesn't come up. Having gone this year in one short in the forward line Lobb is an insurance policy that means someone will miss out.

Re the backline, I think Darcy will be great, but he is still young and there will be games where he is dropped or misses. If he plays 11 games next season that would be a good result, so the Jones/Keath/Gardiner/Cordy options remain. To me the interesting one is Tim O'Brien - you have to say he has been a bust this season.

[MrMahatma]

O’Brien has been a complete and utter bust. At least he was a FA and didn’t cost us anything in the trade. Another year in the magoos for him next year and that’d round off possibly our worst acquisition in a decade.

[Grantysghost]

O’Brien has been a complete and utter bust. At least he was a FA and didn’t cost us anything in the trade. Another year in the magoos for him next year and that’d round off possibly our worst acquisition in a decade.
Bevo must’ve seen something when he was at the Hawks.

Agree he played a couple of decent games but otherwise an abject failure.

[DOG GOD]

Re: O’Brien, he took 11+ marks against us in Launceston last year in his best game ever as an intercept marker. We jumped on the bandwagon and signed him up. Unfortunately he doesn’t get to play on our fwds every week.

[Happy Days]

O’Brien has been a complete and utter bust. At least he was a FA and didn’t cost us anything in the trade. Another year in the magoos for him next year and that’d round off possibly our worst acquisition in a decade.

Who could’ve seen that coming though (me I could have).

[GVGjr]

O’Brien has been a complete and utter bust. At least he was a FA and didn’t cost us anything in the trade. Another year in the magoos for him next year and that’d round off possibly our worst acquisition in a decade.

He got off to a slow start with an injury early and didn't really have a pre-season like he needed.
I think it was a speculative move about giving us some depth than a best 22 week after week scenario when we added him but he might be able to play some roles for us next season.

[Scorlibo]

He got off to a slow start with an injury early and didn't really have a pre-season like he needed.
I think it was a speculative move about giving us some depth than a best 22 week after week scenario when we added him but he might be able to play some roles for us next season.

Agree completely, O'Brien was recruited with the hope that he might excel down back, but mainly to provide depth. He's played 11 games and didn't look out of place. If we had better quality in our two first-choice key defenders then I'd guess we'd be viewing his acquisition in a much different light.

[azabob]

He got off to a slow start with an injury early and didn't really have a pre-season like he needed.
I think it was a speculative move about giving us some depth than a best 22 week after week scenario when we added him but he might be able to play some roles for us next season.


Agree completely, O'Brien was recruited with the hope that he might excel down back, but mainly to provide depth. He's played 11 games and didn't look out of place. If we had better quality in our two first-choice key defenders then I'd guess we'd be viewing his acquisition in a much different light.

Agree with this and by only offering him a two year deal suggests we don't see him as a first choice defender.

[GVGjr]

Based on Kings comments above does the recruitment of Lobb pose some challenges given we already have Naughton, Bruce, Ugle-Hagan and potentially Darcy? I'm assuming that Schache will be let go.

[mjp]

A few media heads (ex-players) were fairly scathing of our performance on the weekend.

Yeah, well.

We are a pretty easy target right now. The criticism of our defenders has reached plague proportions. Geelong, Freo and Melbourne are miles ahead of everyone on the Points Against ladder...I guess Sydney, Port and Carlton are in that next 'group'....after 20 games though if you are trying to tell me there is a massive difference between having 1690 points against and 1600 points against (it's 4.5 points a game in a comp with an uneven draw + throw in injuries, suspensions etc...

Do we need to defend 'better'? Well - we need to be able to grit our teeth and prevent opposition sides kicking 5 goals in a hurry - but outside of that we are clearly not as good as the best 3 but not a lot worse than those who come next.

[Scorlibo]

Based on Kings comments above does the recruitment of Lobb pose some challenges given we already have Naughton, Bruce, Ugle-Hagan and potentially Darcy? I'm assuming that Schache will be let go.

At his age I'm not a huge fan of the move unless it's for peanuts. If we end up relinquishing a first rounder or even early second rounder I'll be disappointed. Look at our strike rate with first and second rounders in the last five years - they all played on the weekend:

2021 - Darcy
2020 - Jamarra
2019 - Weightman
2018 - Baz, West, Vandermeer
2017 - Naughton, Richards

Admittedly Darcy and Jamarra fell into our lap at the very high end, but even so if you were to write down the names of the other six players and throw them into a hat, then offered to pick out a name versus taking Rory Lobb at age 30, it's an easy choice isn't it?

[soupman]

Based on Kings comments above does the recruitment of Lobb pose some challenges given we already have Naughton, Bruce, Ugle-Hagan and potentially Darcy? I'm assuming that Schache will be let go.

Challenges yes, but on form he's the best performed one of the lot including Naughton. Darcy I think plays back for the first few years, and this actually would take the pressure off trying to force him into the ruck forward role too early. Also his ability to play as the deep forward and still be a marking threat will mean there is less reliance on Naughton to kill himself every single forward entry. Based on Bruce's form I'd much rather we gamble on having too many tall forward options than Bruce being one of them.

[Mofra]

At his age I'm not a huge fan of the move unless it's for peanuts. If we end up relinquishing a first rounder or even early second rounder I'll be disappointed. Look at our strike rate with first and second rounders in the last five years - they all played on the weekend:

2021 - Darcy
2020 - Jamarra
2019 - Weightman
2018 - Baz, West, Vandermeer
2017 - Naughton, Richards

Admittedly Darcy and Jamarra fell into our lap at the very high end, but even so if you were to write down the names of the other six players and throw them into a hat, then offered to pick out a name versus taking Rory Lobb at age 30, it's an easy choice isn't it?
If Freo ask for a first rounder for Lobb we should walk away.
We held our nerve with Bruce & Keath, I doubt we suddenly lose it for a 30 year old Lobb who has asked to leave for the second year in a row.

[Grantysghost]

If Freo ask for a first rounder for Lobb we should walk away.
We held our nerve with Bruce & Keath, I doubt we suddenly lose it for a 30 year old Lobb who has asked to leave for the second year in a row.

This hole Lobb move has me nervous. He was great against us, not sure how he nailed those shots of a few steps however at his age I really don't want us to give away too much for him.

Why do we actually need him again? Any chance he plays back?

[GVGjr]

At his age I'm not a huge fan of the move unless it's for peanuts. If we end up relinquishing a first rounder or even early second rounder I'll be disappointed. Look at our strike rate with first and second rounders in the last five years - they all played on the weekend:

2021 - Darcy
2020 - Jamarra
2019 - Weightman
2018 - Baz, West, Vandermeer
2017 - Naughton, Richards

Admittedly Darcy and Jamarra fell into our lap at the very high end, but even so if you were to write down the names of the other six players and throw them into a hat, then offered to pick out a name versus taking Rory Lobb at age 30, it's an easy choice isn't it?

I really can't get a gauge on what we would need to give up for Lobb. He's had a very consistent year and ideally we would have grabbed him last year as a Bruce replacement. Coming to us next season given Bruce should have fully recovered by then and with the emergence of Ugle-Hagan the fit isn't quite as good for us looking forward.
He would make us better in the short term which is worth considering but I suspect we would need to be prepared to hold Marra and potentially Darcy back a bit next season and that could be problematic. As King pointed out we already have a tall forward line so unless we make the highly unlikely decision to move Naughton or Bruce back we have have 4 or 5 players looking at 3 positions.

Freo should be asking us for our 2nd rounder for Lobb and it depends on how badly they need to rid themselves of his salary to see if there is some flexibility in that. For the life on me I can't see why they wouldn't want to keep him and there must be some others players they can clear to manage their salary cap.

[bornadog]

Yeah, well.

We are a pretty easy target right now. The criticism of our defenders has reached plague proportions. Geelong, Freo and Melbourne are miles ahead of everyone on the Points Against ladder...I guess Sydney, Port and Carlton are in that next 'group'....after 20 games though if you are trying to tell me there is a massive difference between having 1690 points against and 1600 points against (it's 4.5 points a game in a comp with an uneven draw + throw in injuries, suspensions etc...

Do we need to defend 'better'? Well - we need to be able to grit our teeth and prevent opposition sides kicking 5 goals in a hurry - but outside of that we are clearly not as good as the best 3 but not a lot worse than those who come next.

We need to tighten up on turnovers which are killing us

[bornadog]

This hole Lobb move has me nervous. He was great against us, not sure how he nailed those shots of a few steps however at his age I really don't want us to give away too much for him.

Why do we actually need him again? Any chance he plays back?

We need a second ruck solution.

[Grantysghost]

We need a second ruck solution.

Logue was their second ruck on the weekend even when Taberner was fit.

I'm ok with him coming over but apart from this year I didn't rate him at all.

Right price I'm ok with it.

[bornadog]

Logue was their second ruck on the weekend even when Taberner was fit.

I'm ok with him coming over but apart from this year I didn't rate him at all.

Right price I'm ok with it.

I was all for him, but I am on the fence now, and like you must be at the right price.

North's 3rd rounder is just about a 2nd rounder :D

[azabob]

Yeah, well.

We are a pretty easy target right now. The criticism of our defenders has reached plague proportions. Geelong, Freo and Melbourne are miles ahead of everyone on the Points Against ladder...I guess Sydney, Port and Carlton are in that next 'group'....after 20 games though if you are trying to tell me there is a massive difference between having 1690 points against and 1600 points against (it's 4.5 points a game in a comp with an uneven draw + throw in injuries, suspensions etc...

Do we need to defend 'better'? Well - we need to be able to grit our teeth and prevent opposition sides kicking 5 goals in a hurry - but outside of that we are clearly not as good as the best 3 but not a lot worse than those who come next.

I'm not sure if you are potting the media as that is our natural reaction or agreeing with David King, Daniel Harford and Adam Ramanuskas that our defending for the whole group on the weekend was non existent and hasn't been great during 2022?

David King he has been critical of our on field fortunes for majority of the season and most media scribes have been very generous with our poor season to date, thinking we will come good when it matters.

We are coming off a grand final where our defensive system was pretty strong up until the last 40 minutes of the season.

I expected us to be the in the top 3 off ladder position and points against.

Surely the injuries argument is now dead in the water as we've had a pretty clean bill of health during the second half of the year and still haven't performed.

As you would say mjp surely we need to compare ourselves to the competitions best and not midtable teams.

[azabob]

Based on Kings comments above does the recruitment of Lobb pose some challenges given we already have Naughton, Bruce, Ugle-Hagan and potentially Darcy? I'm assuming that Schache will be let go.

Devils avocado time; as I'd prefer to play Schache ahead of Lobb.

But maybe Darcy spends next year as a defender and not forward / ruck and Bruce and Lobb fight out the 3rd key forward and ruck relief role.

I honestly expect Ugle-Hagan to hold his own as the 2nd key forward behind Naughton.

[azabob]

Challenges yes, but on form he's the best performed one of the lot including Naughton. Darcy I think plays back for the first few years, and this actually would take the pressure off trying to force him into the ruck forward role too early. Also his ability to play as the deep forward and still be a marking threat will mean there is less reliance on Naughton to kill himself every single forward entry. Based on Bruce's form I'd much rather we gamble on having too many tall forward options than Bruce being one of them.

My thoughts on Darcy as well and posted a similar reply to GVGjr before reading your post.

[bornadog]

I'm not sure if you are potting the media as that is our natural reaction or agreeing with David King, Daniel Harford and Adam Ramanuskas that our defending for the whole group defense on the weekend was non existent and hasn't been great during 2022?

David King he has been critical of our on field fortunes for majority of the season and most media scribes have been very generous with our poor season to date, thinking we will come good when it matters.

We are coming off a grand final where our defensive system was pretty strong up until the last 40 minutes of the season.

I expected us to be the in the top 3 off ladder position and points against.

Surely the injuries argument is now dead in the water as we've had a pretty clean bill of health during the second half of the year and still haven't performed.

As you would say mjp surely we need to compare ourselves to the competitions best and not midtable teams.

Trouble with David King is he doesn't have a solution. At one stage he suggested Naughton go back then a few weeks later suggested JUH should go back. All he is doing is outlining the problems we all discuss here on WOOF.

I have no time for these media scribes.

[Bulldog4life]

I really can't get a gauge on what we would need to give up for Lobb. He's had a very consistent year and ideally we would have grabbed him last year as a Bruce replacement. Coming to us next season given Bruce should have fully recovered by then and with the emergence of Ugle-Hagan the fit isn't quite as good for us looking forward.
He would make us better in the short term which is worth considering but I suspect we would need to be prepared to hold Marra and potentially Darcy back a bit next season and that could be problematic. As King pointed out we already have a tall forward line so unless we make the highly unlikely decision to move Naughton or Bruce back we have have 4 or 5 players looking at 3 positions.

Freo should be asking us for our 2nd rounder for Lobb and it depends on how badly they need to rid themselves of his salary to see if there is some flexibility in that. For the life on me I can't see why they wouldn't want to keep him and there must be some others players they can clear to manage their salary cap.

He seems to have completely lost his spring to go for marks. Do you think that will come back G?

[GVGjr]

Challenges yes, but on form he's the best performed one of the lot including Naughton. Darcy I think plays back for the first few years, and this actually would take the pressure off trying to force him into the ruck forward role too early. Also his ability to play as the deep forward and still be a marking threat will mean there is less reliance on Naughton to kill himself every single forward entry. Based on Bruce's form I'd much rather we gamble on having too many tall forward options than Bruce being one of them.

Darcy's mobility could get exposed in the back line until he matures. His light frame might mean we really have to manage who he is pitted against.

Jones (if he comes to us) and Gardner should get the main forwards and I suspect Keath will back them up unless he shows up in better form next year. This means Darcy is more or less looking after the 3rd tall forward. That's going to be an interesting puzzle for us to balance the match-ups.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Darcy's mobility could get exposed in the back line until he matures. His light frame might mean we really have to manage who he is pitted against.

Jones (if he comes to us) and Gardner should get the main forwards and I suspect Keath will back them up unless he shows up in better form next year. This means Darcy is more or less looking after the 3rd tall forward. That's going to be an interesting puzzle for us to balance the match-ups.

Where does that leave Khamis GVG?

As a third tall, I'd prefer Buku over Sam.

[GVGjr]

He seems to have completely lost his spring to go for marks. Do you think that will come back G?

It should but based on that we haven't looked like dropping him I'm not sure it matters.

[GVGjr]

Where does that leave Khamis GVG?

As a third tall, I'd prefer Buku over Sam.

Same here, Buku has made a bit of progress this year plus O'Brien might be a better defender if Jones comes back in good form.
You have to wonder how the back line might look if Keath comes back in something close to his 2021 form.

[Grantysghost]

He seems to have completely lost his spring to go for marks. Do you think that will come back G?

Absolutely he has. I watched him closely and he was taking off early and was on the way down when the ball was there.

Could just be timing but I think it's more than that currently.

Not easy to get that back quickly. Hopefully he can.

Freo released a nice bit of footage with Pearce mic'ed up during the toss and the game.

Bruce gave him a nice body check, but Pearce made up the ground.

[GVGjr]

Just reading on Twitter that Sam Edmund has apparently mentioned that things are looking positive with Dunkley staying at the Dogs.

[chef]

Just reading on Twitter that Sam Edmund has apparently mentioned that things are looking positive with Dunkley staying at the Dogs.

Yay. Just got to keep him as he'd be in our top 5 most important footballers.

[The Doctor]

Just reading on Twitter that Sam Edmund has apparently mentioned that things are looking positive with Dunkley staying at the Dogs.

Listening to Edmund on SEN suggests to me that nothing has really developed one way or the other.

[GVGjr]

Listening to Edmund on SEN suggests to me that nothing has really developed one way or the other.

Yes, it's roughly the same comment as the previous week. Still it's better than it heading in another direction.
I really wish we could get a clear indication one way or the other.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Typically no indication IS the indication.

I think he's gone.

[GVGjr]

Typically no indication IS the indication.

I think he's gone.

Given the way we like to drop feed good information the fact that Smith made the announcement yesterday we could be holding back as well but it's a fair observation you raised.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Pretty hard to argue with this logic. I for one am dead against chasing Lobb. I can see him quickly entering the 'Talls of Shame' file right along with Daniel Bandy, Kingsley Hunter, Adam Morgan, Andrew McDougall etc. I think he is totally over rated, AND he's not even the type we need AND I just dislike him.
At his age I'm not a huge fan of the move unless it's for peanuts. If we end up relinquishing a first rounder or even early second rounder I'll be disappointed. Look at our strike rate with first and second rounders in the last five years - they all played on the weekend:

2021 - Darcy
2020 - Jamarra
2019 - Weightman
2018 - Baz, West, Vandermeer
2017 - Naughton, Richards

Admittedly Darcy and Jamarra fell into our lap at the very high end, but even so if you were to write down the names of the other six players and throw them into a hat, then offered to pick out a name versus taking Rory Lobb at age 30, it's an easy choice isn't it?

[DOG GOD]

I just wish English would drop the ego and be that fwd/2nd ruck he’s more suited too.

[bornadog]

Listening to Edmund on SEN suggests to me that nothing has really developed one way or the other.

Edmund:


Dunkley’s contract expires this year and while the Dogs have presented him with a long-term offer, negotiations have progressed slowly.

The Dunkley camp hasn’t rejected the offer, but haven’t presented a counter-offer, either.


Dunkley is said to be happy and engaged at Whitten Oval, but while the Dogs expect him to stay it’s not moving quickly.

[bornadog]

I just wish English would drop the ego and be that fwd/2nd ruck he’s more suited too.

and who rucks?

[DOG GOD]

and who rucks?

We get a ruckman.

I think we could find a ruckman who is better in the centre than English, and English would be a hell of a lot better in our fwd line than Lobb.

The BEST our fwd line has looked over the years was at the beginning of last year…Naughton, English and Bruce.

Martin in the ruck…so if we could just find a ruckman who is as good as Martin in the centre.

The Jones/Lobb enquires just reeks desperation on our behalf.

[bornadog]

We get a ruckman.

I think we could find a ruckman who is better in the centre than English, and English would be a hell of a lot better in our fwd line than Lobb.

The BEST our fwd line has looked over the years was at the beginning of last year…Naughton, English and Bruce.

Martin in the ruck…so if we could just find a ruckman who is as good as Martin in the centre.

English's value is his around the ground work

[DOG GOD]

English's value is his around the ground work

Yep, I get that, but we have dysfunction fwd and back, and we need to sort out this first and foremost…

[jeemak]

So we don't want Lobb, but we also don't want a ruckman Bevo won't play (like Sweet).

Who's available that we might want then?

We all think Bruce is at least a small to maybe medium chance of being cooked post knee, but we don't really know. But we don't want insurance for him who Bevo will actually play alongside him or possibly in lieu of him because it might cost us a bit too much at the trade table even though it's a dreadfully difficult position on a list to fill.

What do we actually want?

If we don't get Lobb then we'll be stuck with the same circular argument about playing Sweet as main ruck and Tim forward that we've had around here over the past two years and that's not good for anyone's sanity. Recruiting Lobb will be a mercy mission for this place!

[Sedat]

So we don't want Lobb, but we also don't want a ruckman Bevo won't play (like Sweet).

Who's available that we might want then?

We all think Bruce is at least a small to maybe medium chance of being cooked post knee, but we don't really know. But we don't want insurance for him who Bevo will actually play alongside him or possibly in lieu of him because it might cost us a bit too much at the trade table even though it's a dreadfully difficult position on a list to fill.

What do we actually want?

If we don't get Lobb then we'll be stuck with the same circular argument about playing Sweet as main ruck and Tim forward that we've had around here over the past two years and that's not good for anyone's sanity. Recruiting Lobb will be a mercy mission for this place!
I'm on team Goldy, but that would require an honest conversation about English and his true worth for the betterment of the team. Likewise the see-ball get-ball mids need to have an honest conversation about changing their role to better assist the team.

[Grantysghost]

I'm on team Goldy, but that would require an honest conversation about English and his true worth for the betterment of the team. Likewise the see-ball get-ball mids need to have an honest conversation about changing their role to better assist the team.

I don't really get why Tim is so reluctant to take that forward ruck role.
Got me stuffed.

[jeemak]

I'm on team Goldy, but that would require an honest conversation about English and his true worth for the betterment of the team. Likewise the see-ball get-ball mids need to have an honest conversation about changing their role to better assist the team.

Well I'm already on record as saying getting Grundy is what I'd consider doing, and have that same conversation with English.

Don't get me started on the mids!

[Swoop]

It's probably not the reality but I imagine a Moneyball scenario between Power and Bevo ala Billy Beane and Art Howe. I feel like Power is saying, if you refuse to play two genuine ruckmen I'm going to go out and get a key position player that is a genuine ruckman and give you no other option.

[GVGjr]

So we don't want Lobb, but we also don't want a ruckman Bevo won't play (like Sweet).

Who's available that we might want then?

We all think Bruce is at least a small to maybe medium chance of being cooked post knee, but we don't really know. But we don't want insurance for him who Bevo will actually play alongside him or possibly in lieu of him because it might cost us a bit too much at the trade table even though it's a dreadfully difficult position on a list to fill.

What do we actually want?

If we don't get Lobb then we'll be stuck with the same circular argument about playing Sweet as main ruck and Tim forward that we've had around here over the past two years and that's not good for anyone's sanity. Recruiting Lobb will be a mercy mission for this place!



Sweet is a back-up to English but on occasions an option to play in tandem with English. He is a support player and Bevo will play him when needed. We still need to find another ruckman to replace Martin.

I think Lobb fits the need of what we might want in terms of being an effective forward and providing a good chop out option for English but the rise of Ugle-Hagan later this season after an underwhelming 2021 (for good reasons) and the emergence of Darcy if he was to be played forward could create some challenges.

Now if we are prepared to play Bruce more on merit, and history doesn't really support that, then that changes things and to me makes Lobb a bit more if an enticing option but I'm just not confident we would be prepared to drop Bruce particularly early next season.

To me we can't play all of Naughton, Lobb, Bruce and Ugle-Hagan up forward but I think Lobb has the potential to be our 2nd best tall forward next year. Lets assume he starts next season ahead of Marra, how confident are you that the number one key forward for Fremantle could be an effective number 3 tall forward for us? It may not be an easy adjustment.

When I read a top heavy list of 6 forwards that has Lobb on the bench I don't see that working.

For me it comes down to if we really think adding Lobb and Jones is going to make us a top 5 side next year. If so then I'm just about sold on it, if it isn't likely to result in that sort of lift I'm a lot more cautious.

Landing Lobb (or someone else) last year as a replacement for the long term injury to Bruce should have been our focus. With the emergence of Marra and the return of Bruce to me makes it a bit more complicated.

[jeemak]

I agree we need a replacement for Stef, and I hope we get one.

As for finding someone like Lobb to replace Bruce this year, it might be that you have to put a lot of work into landing players like that and be into them for a long time like it appears we have been with Lobb. It may have been a hard ask for us to get someone of his quality in given the fact Bruce did his knee with three weeks of the home and away season left.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I recon we need to chase hard and get a leader. I would love a Selwood, Viney, Ward to support Bont and drag the team forward when in need.

I think we can cover forward of the ball, midfield and a ruck

The two focus areas have you be a hard edged leader and a KPB folllwed closely by a tactical coach to support Bevo.

[Dry Rot]

We should be getting the second Freo ruck (Meek?) not Lobb

[Dry Rot]

a tactical coach to support Bevo.

There's an odd BF rumour that will be Leon Cameron.

[Grantysghost]

I recon we need to chase hard and get a leader. I would love a Selwood, Viney, Ward to support Bont and drag the team forward when in need.

I think we can cover forward of the ball, midfield and a ruck

The two focus areas have you be a hard edged leader and a KPB folllwed closely by a tactical coach to support Bevo.

Cal Ward back at the kennel. Now I’d like to see that.

[The Doctor]

Cal Ward back at the kennel. Now I’d like to see that.

So would I along with Peter Foster to our backline, Chris Grant and Lally Bamblett in our forward line and Liam Picken wherever he wants.

I'd like to see that

[FrediKanoute]

I really can't get a gauge on what we would need to give up for Lobb. He's had a very consistent year and ideally we would have grabbed him last year as a Bruce replacement. Coming to us next season given Bruce should have fully recovered by then and with the emergence of Ugle-Hagan the fit isn't quite as good for us looking forward.
He would make us better in the short term which is worth considering but I suspect we would need to be prepared to hold Marra and potentially Darcy back a bit next season and that could be problematic. As King pointed out we already have a tall forward line so unless we make the highly unlikely decision to move Naughton or Bruce back we have have 4 or 5 players looking at 3 positions.

Freo should be asking us for our 2nd rounder for Lobb and it depends on how badly they need to rid themselves of his salary to see if there is some flexibility in that. For the life on me I can't see why they wouldn't want to keep him and there must be some others players they can clear to manage their salary cap.

Agree. Lobb was the ideal recruit LAST year when we knew hat we would have a year without Bruce.

The only way I see us fitting him in the forward line if Bruce is fit is if Naughton goes back to CHB. I am generally against this, but if this has the effect of strengthening our back 6 and still allowing our forward line to function great!

[Grantysghost]

So would I along with Peter Foster to our backline, Chris Grant and Lally Bamblett in our forward line and Liam Picken wherever he wants.

I'd like to see that

So you’re telling me there’s a chance….

[Bumper Bulldogs]

There's an odd BF rumour that will be Leon Cameron.

I truly hope so

[jeemak]

Agree. Lobb was the ideal recruit LAST year when we knew hat we would have a year without Bruce.

The only way I see us fitting him in the forward line if Bruce is fit is if Naughton goes back to CHB. I am generally against this, but if this has the effect of strengthening our back 6 and still allowing our forward line to function great!

I guess we should have forced him to play for us then.

[GVGjr]

It's probably not the reality but I imagine a Moneyball scenario between Power and Bevo ala Billy Beane and Art Howe. I feel like Power is saying, if you refuse to play two genuine ruckmen I'm going to go out and get a key position player that is a genuine ruckman and give you no other option.

There might be something to that but you would hope the recruiting team have the authority to stick largely to the best available theme but what the coach wants would come into play.

[GVGjr]

I agree we need a replacement for Stef, and I hope we get one.

As for finding someone like Lobb to replace Bruce this year, it might be that you have to put a lot of work into landing players like that and be into them for a long time like it appears we have been with Lobb. It may have been a hard ask for us to get someone of his quality in given the fact Bruce did his knee with three weeks of the home and away season left.

What probably complicated things for us last year during the trade period was having so many out of contract players we had to get deals for this year and trying not to tie up money until those deals were done but I still think there were players that could have been targeted.

[jeemak]

What probably complicated things for us last year during the trade period was having so many out of contract players we had to get deals for this year and trying not to tie up money until those deals were done but I still think there were players that could have been targeted.

Sorry to sound like BAD, because he's one in a million and we love him and he can't be replaced or replicated, but how do we know we didn't try?

[GVGjr]

Sorry to sound like BAD, because he's one in a million and we love him and he can't be replaced or replicated, but how do we know we didn't try?

I don't think I said we didn't try but we weren't really linked with anyone. What we do know is Bruce was going to miss a large slice of the season and didn't bring in anyone to address it. 12 months later and for some Lobb or someone like him is now a must.

Is this a bit like midfielders being 2nd to the ball?

[jeemak]

I don't think I said we didn't try but we weren't really linked with anyone. What we do know is Bruce was going to miss a large slice of the season and didn't bring in anyone to address it. 12 months later and for some Lobb or someone like him is now a must.

Is this a bit like midfielders being 2nd to the ball?

It may have been that we thought that Josh Schache who had a promising finals series was going to take a step up in intensity and overall output over the last twelve months, it could be that we tried to land someone but couldn't because other clubs had already put the work in by that stage.

None of that changes the fact we need depth in all of ruck, forward and defence if this place is any sort of litmus test......or was any sort of litmus test until we started to do something about those things.

It's almost as if we get more satisfaction from looking back at our perceived failings and engaging in acts of self-flagellation around here than we do from being moderately proactive about fixing those problems.

[bornadog]

12 months later and for some Lobb or someone like him is now a must.

Chasing Lobb is for the second ruck role that we have been missing, not just forward craft.

[chef]

With another preseaon under his belt why can't Darcy be that 2nd ruck/forward?

[Bullies]

With another preseaon under his belt why can't Darcy be that 2nd ruck/forward? I think they believe the best for Darcy is the intercept defender role and to learn the craft down back as Naughton did in his early years. Much easier down back to get a read on the game and he can also play on the guy who plays up the ground so he is not accountable. You also don't want him getting smashed in the middle when he is not physically ready. He will cop it enough down back.

[Bulldog4life]

For me English first ruck/ forward Lobb 2nd ruck/ forward. Could be 70/30 or 60/40 rucking. Is this too simple?

[GVGjr]

For me English first ruck/ forward Lobb 2nd ruck/ forward. Could be 70/30 or 60/40 rucking. Is this too simple?

I think it would be more likely 80/20 or 70/30 but it works. By being able to spell English a bit more it could help him right through the season.

[Grantysghost]

With another preseaon under his belt why can't Darcy be that 2nd ruck/forward?

He's improved so quickly, and come back after his injury so far advanced on what we'd expected I think they maybe asking themselves this exact question.

Certainly can't blame the list management team for looking when Darcy hadn't played at all. But now we've seen him...

Nice problem to have.

[Grantysghost]

I think it would be more likely 80/20 or 70/30 but it works. By being able to spell English a bit more it could help him right through the season.

80/20 is what we do now with Bruce/Schache/insert name here.

[Bulldog4life]

I think it would be more likely 80/20 or 70/30 but it works. By being able to spell English a bit more it could help him right through the season.

I said 60/40 to appease the woofers who want English second ruck.

[GVGjr]

80/20 is what we do now with Bruce/Schache/insert name here.

I think so. Lobb might allow a bit more flexibility as well.

[Bulldog4life]

I think so. Lobb might allow a bit more flexibility as well.

We want a decent second ruck. Bruce and Schache are not it. Lobb is.

[chef]

I think they believe the best for Darcy is the intercept defender role and to learn the craft down back as Naughton did in his early years. Much easier down back to get a read on the game and he can also play on the guy who plays up the ground so he is not accountable. You also don't want him getting smashed in the middle when he is not physically ready. He will cop it enough down back.

Naughton was a gun junior defender and showed that in his first year for, you could argue we'd be a better side with him down back still. He was only thrown forward as a late preseason hail mary and we are lucky I guess it stuck. Not really comparable to me.

Darcy is a great mark and he looks made for that 2nd ruck role/forward role(just likje his dad when he first started). I'd hate for us to bring in a pretty average footballer to steal his best spot for a few seasons.

[GVGjr]

Naughton was a gun junior defender and showed that in his first year for, you could argue we'd be a better side with him down back still. He was only thrown forward as a late preseason hail mary and we are lucky I guess it stuck. Not really comparable to me.

Darcy is a great mark and he looks made for that 2nd ruck role/forward role(just likje his dad when he first started). I'd hate for us to bring in a pretty average footballer to steal his best spot for a few seasons.

Wasn't Naughton an absolute gift for us? Drafted as a defender and adapted to a key forward role when we needed him to.

Darcy should be a success in whatever position he settles down in and while I think that should be in the forward line in the next 2 seasons and then in a forward/ruckman role as you have suggested it could also easily be as a key defender.
My only concerns as a defender is his quickness but that is something they can work on.

[chef]

Wasn't Naughton an absolute gift for us? Drafted as a defender and adapted to a key forward role when we needed him to.

Darcy should be a success in whatever position he settles down in and while I think that should be in the forward line in the next 2 seasons and then in a forward/ruckman role as you have suggested it could also easily be as a key defender.
My only concerns as a defender is his quickness but that is something they can work on.

Haha yeah Naughton is the same dilemma as Chris Grant , which end do we play him as he'll kill it at either.

I too worry about Darcys leg speed, but also his field kicking. Its not great so when he turns it over its in really dangerous positions.

[GVGjr]

Haha yeah Naughton is the same dilemma as Chris Grant , which end do we play him as he'll kill it at either.

I too worry about Darcys leg speed, but also his field kicking. Its not great so when he turns it over its in really dangerous positions.

Darcy will make it and his field kicking will improve. Like with most taller youngsters we are just going to have to be patient with him.

[hujsh]

Lobb isn't a bad ruck and one upside to having him in the team is if English is having a stinker (as he is want to do from time to time) he and Lobb can switch roles and we'd still have a competent ruck and a competent forward.

[Grantysghost]

Naughton was a gun junior defender and showed that in his first year for, you could argue we'd be a better side with him down back still. He was only thrown forward as a late preseason hail mary and we are lucky I guess it stuck. Not really comparable to me.

Darcy is a great mark and he looks made for that 2nd ruck role/forward role(just likje his dad when he first started). I'd hate for us to bring in a pretty average footballer to steal his best spot for a few seasons.

https://media.giphy.com/media/14cilFdQzr8hG0/giphy.gif

[Axe Man]

We have seen how long it has taken Tim English to develop into physically capable ruck/forward from a tall, skinny kid.

I know Darcy is a "Unicorn", but I think it really is asking too much of him to compete physically as a either a KPF or ruck for at least the next year, probably 2.

I think back is probably the easier role for Sam for the time being.

[GVGjr]

Lobb isn't a bad ruck and one upside to having him in the team is if English is having a stinker (as he is want to do from time to time) he and Lobb can switch roles and we'd still have a competent and a competent forward.

It certainly would provide some options particularly if there was an injury to English somewhere during the game.

[GVGjr]

We have seen how long it has taken Tim English to develop into physically capable ruck/forward from a tall, skinny kid.

I know Darcy is a "Unicorn", but I think it really is asking too much of him to compete physically as a either a KPF or ruck for at least the next year, probably 2.

I think back is probably the easier role for Sam for the time being.

Good suggestion. It will mostly likely be a while before he could genuinely compete a true KPP from the opposition. If we get Jones in he is less likely to have to be pitted against an opposition key forward.
He will be developing player for us over the next 2 seasons.

[Grantysghost]

Good suggestion. It will mostly likely be a while before he could genuinely compete a true KPP from the opposition. If we get Jones in he is less likely to have to be pitted against an opposition key forward.
He will be developing player for us over the next 2 seasons.

Marra is in his second year, it's not like Sam will be the big dog he will have big bodies around him.

I guess where you see the list is probably how you would use Sam.

If we think we are right in the window, which looks likely then it makes sense to load up on experienced players.

Personally I'm not so sure that we are.

[DOG GOD]

I still think we need Jones and ANOTHER quality KPD.
I have no faith in Keath getting anywhere near his 2021 imput
And realistically, how many games would we expect Darcy to play ? I think we will have to be cautious in the teams he plays against.

We can’t be relying on Cordy and O’Brien next year if we are being serious.

This is why I’m on the Barrass bandwagon. We need this defence transformed, and a KPD who can play on the big boys is essential.

[GVGjr]

I still think we need Jones and ANOTHER quality KPD.
I have no faith in Keath getting anywhere near his 2021 imput
And realistically, how many games would we expect Darcy to play ? I think we will have to be cautious in the teams he plays against.

We can’t be relying on Cordy and O’Brien next year if we are being serious.

This is why I’m on the Barrass bandwagon. We need this defence transformed, and a KPD who can play on the big boys is essential.

I've read a few articles about Barrass and he doesn't appear to be making any noise about leaving. In fact he's been mentioning some leadership ambitions at the club.
Have you located anything that indicates he is looking to leave?

He's a terrific player I just wonder if he is really a chance to leave.

[Axe Man]

Marra is in his second year, it's not like Sam will be the big dog he will have big bodies around him.

Marra is a completely different player who is able to play more like a medium forward than a true KPF at this stage due to his agility. Darcy isn't likely to be sharking ground balls and snapping goals over his shoulder.

Also if Marra and Sam are both playing forward they will probably only have 1 other big body in there at any given time.

I can't think of too many players physically similar to Darcy that have been able to be successful as a ruck or KPF so early in their development.

[hujsh]

I've read a few articles about Barrass and he doesn't appear to be making any noise about leaving. In fact he's been mentioning some leadership ambitions at the club.
Have you located anything that indicates he is looking to leave?

He's a terrific player I just wonder if he is really a chance to leave.

We have a certain chalice that might help meet those ambitions. Sure some of the people who drank of it had some... stomach issues lets say, but he'll be fine I'm sure.

[DOG GOD]

I've read a few articles about Barrass and he doesn't appear to be making any noise about leaving. In fact he's been mentioning some leadership ambitions at the club.
Have you located anything that indicates he is looking to leave?

He's a terrific player I just wonder if he is really a chance to leave.

Not really. The only thing I’ve been reading is that our recruiters have been in his ear as well as his management. How true that is, no idea. I just hope we are doing our due diligence and getting out there. It’s obvious we need QUALITY defensive players, and I hope we leave no stone unturned in our search. If we just settle for a 30 year old Jones, I’d be disappointed.

[bornadog]

With another preseaon under his belt why can't Darcy be that 2nd ruck/forward?

Relying on a 19 year old - is that ok?

[GVGjr]

Relying on a 19 year old - is that ok?

Can you imagine someone like Preuss wanting to line him up?

[bornadog]

Can you imagine someone like Preuss wanting to line him up?

We need to make sure he develops slowly slowly as his body is still growing. Put on 5cm this year alone and he turns 19 next week, so in theory could still grow.

[Happy Days]

Can you imagine someone like Preuss wanting to line him up?

Preuss would probably fall over and concuss himself on his own knee.

[hujsh]

Not really. The only thing I’ve been reading is that our recruiters have been in his ear as well as his management. How true that is, no idea. I just hope we are doing our due diligence and getting out there. It’s obvious we need QUALITY defensive players, and I hope we leave no stone unturned in our search. If we just settle for a 30 year old Jones, I’d be disappointed.

For sure. If Melbourne could attract Lever and May when they were still shithouse it's not an impossible task to point at our previous performances, point at the void that is our defence, then hold up a picture of Brian Lake with his third premiership cup. Someone should hopefully find that notion appealing.

[chef]

Relying on a 19 year old - is that ok?

Yeah I'd be happy to develop him next season around the firsts. He's too good to be playing VFL already IMO. And it's more than likely Bruce would be 2nd rucking anyway.

[Mofra]

We get a ruckman.

I think we could find a ruckman who is better in the centre than English, and English would be a hell of a lot better in our fwd line than Lobb.

The BEST our fwd line has looked over the years was at the beginning of last year…Naughton, English and Bruce.

Martin in the ruck…so if we could just find a ruckman who is as good as Martin in the centre.

The Jones/Lobb enquires just reeks desperation on our behalf.
Kieran Strauhan from the Crows, easily. More mobile than ROB, arguably the best ruck going around who isn't getting senior SFL time
I suspect we're going to stick by English as the no 1 man, Bevo loves his work around the ground