List Management thread (For 2022)

[Bumper Bulldogs]

JJ contract offer from GC for 3 years. Sounds like he’s off

I’m really ok with that. He hasn’t been the same footballer since the start of the contract that he demanded. We are playing him forward and he wants to play back.

Wish him good luck if he goes. Win win for both parties IMO

[Go_Dogs]

I’m really ok with that. He hasn’t been the same footballer since the start of the contract that he demanded. We are playing him forward and he wants to play back.

Wish him good luck if he goes. Win win for both parties IMO

I think all of that is fair enough.

When he’s not been injured, he’s done well up forward for us the past couple of seasons. We will miss his leg speed…

[angelopetraglia]

JJ contract offer from GC for 3 years. Sounds like he’s off

He turns 30 in November. He only managed nine games this season.

But prior to that he played:

21 - 25 games
20 - 17 games
19 - 20 games
18 - 22 games
17 - 21 games
16 - 17 games
15 - 20 games

So he has been incredibly durable over the journey. But calf injuries post 30 are a concern, especially for explosive players like JJ. His output in regards to possessions has been far lower in the last three years as he has played that forward role.

However, in saying all that he has one asset that is rare in our team. He has raw pace and that is a great asset in our game and something that you can't teach. You don't learn to run fast. You are either fast or you are not.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's the perfect time/age to offload JJ.

The compensation will be interesting. I'd guess a second round?

[GVGjr]

It's the perfect time/age to offload JJ.

The compensation will be interesting. I'd guess a second round?

I suspect on it's own it would be an end of 2nd round compensation but does that get compromised if we bring in Jones as a FA?

[josie]

I think all of that is fair enough.

When he’s not been injured, he’s done well up forward for us the past couple of seasons. We will miss his leg speed…

JJ is also usually footy smart and has good disposal. We will miss him but the offer does sound like a win win.

[Vred]

Dunkley to meet with Port this week as of Channel 7

[FrediKanoute]

It appears he's thinking is 2 or 3 steps ahead of him getting the ball and as a result he doesn't execute as well as he should.
You can see the MC probably loves is enthusiasm but he is just too error prone at the moment. Maybe he is being played out of position but he needs to become a consistent performer at Footscray before we consider him for a senior spot next season.

He's not someone you bring into the team on the back of a small number of games.

[G-Mo77]

Dunkley to meet with Port this week as of Channel 7

I think he's gone. Bevo, in his press conference made a quote along the lines of we need to get used to players moving from club to club and looking out for whats best for themselves. Made me think Dunkley, JJ are definitely gone. If Dunkley was staying I think he would have signed by now. I mean he tried to break his contract and move to the Bombres of all places. He's not staying.

[Grantysghost]

I think he's gone. Bevo, in his press conference made a quote along the lines of we need to get used to players moving from club to club and looking out for whats best for themselves. Made me think Dunkley, JJ are definitely gone. If Dunkley was staying I think he would have signed by now. I mean he tried to break his contract and move to the Bombres of all places. He's not staying.

What a massive loss. They've got nothing we want either.


https://youtu.be/-BiJKq7ynms

[GVGjr]

What a massive loss. They've got nothing we want either.

Player for player trades are rare now, it's essentially draft picks when you move a player to another club. Port currently has pick 8 and not much else and getting them to part with that may not be easy but they'll pick up something for Amon.

I don't like they way this has been drawn out and that's on Dunkley and his manager.

[Grantysghost]

Player for player trades are rare now, it's essentially draft picks when you move a player to another club. Port currently has pick 8 and not much else and getting them to part with that may not be easy but they'll pick up something for Amon.

I don't like they way this has been drawn out and that's on Dunkley and his manager.

Are they still annoyed we blocked his Essendon move?

[Mantis]

Player for player trades are rare now, it's essentially draft picks when you move a player to another club. Port currently has pick 8 and not much else and getting them to part with that may not be easy but they'll pick up something for Amon.

I don't like they way this has been drawn out and that's on Dunkley and his manager.

But what if Dunkley made the decision to leave some time back, but in the current environment can’t announce it whilst he’s still playing?

[Grantysghost]

But what if Dunkley made the decision to leave some time back, but in the current environment can’t announce it whilst he’s still playing?

That's possible.

My concern is the why.

He had concerns about professionalism. Did we do anything to rectify this? If he's still going I'm worried we haven't done enough.

It's a real mess.

The whole bromance was weird, almost like he lost all his mates and had to find a new one.

[GVGjr]

But what if Dunkley made the decision to leave some time back, but in the current environment can’t announce it whilst he’s still playing?

Do you think that is likely? It's been reported that we've been putting contracts in front of him and that he is engaged which are indications that he hasn't said to Sam Power and the team that it's more likely I'm leaving.

From a club's perspective is there much difference between "We've still got some work to do" to what we have been saying along the way? We could have easily said talks are on hold until the end of the season a few weeks back if the indication from Dunkley and his managers was that he really wanted to leave.

[GVGjr]

From the Hun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/afl-finals-fremantle-v-western-bulldogs-all-the-news-action-and-fallout-from-elimination-final/news-story/82796016f55346a6bc4f3a2cdfe9e2ec).

Port Adelaide would be prepared to offer a single first-round pick for out-of-contract Bulldogs star Josh Dunkley as the Power steps up their chase for the in-demand midfielder.

The Western Bulldogs crashed out of finals with another dramatic fadeout from 41 points up against Fremantle a year after their diabolical grand final collapse.

Coach Luke Beveridge said the club had failed to find consistency all year as it prepares for significant list changes in coming months.

Beveridge is out of contract at the end of next year and while he will be under some pressure, he has made finals in six of his eight seasons and is only the second Dogs coach after Terry Wallace to play in four consecutive finals series.

Fremantle ruckman Rory Lobb will join the Bulldogs and potentially allow Sam Darcy to play as a swingman while ex-Dogs and Carlton full-back Liam Jones will return to the club on a three-year deal.

The Dogs defenders kept Lobb, Jye Amiss and Griffin Logue to five combined goals but have not had a regular intercept presence for some years in a game based on turnovers.

Free agent Jason Johannisen is likely to secure a bigger deal elsewhere, with the Herald Sun reporting last week that Gold Coast is one suitor.

Premiership swingman Zaine Cordy played 14 games including the last five of the Dogs’ season in defence, but is an unrestricted free agent who could prove attractive to clubs looking for full-backs.

Dunkley had put off talks over a contract until the end of the season and now has at least three options in a year in which he is out of contract but not a free agent after only seven years’ service.

Given his contract talks have drifted after starting as far back as last year’s grand final, rival clubs believe there is a good chance he will move on for a fresh start.

Port Adelaide will attempt to escalate its chase for Dunkley this week. So far the Power has offered him a long-term deal of around $650,000, similar to the Dogs’ contract offer.

The Power believes it is ahead of Brisbane, where Dunkley’s sister lives, because his girlfriend Tippah Dwan plays for the Adelaide Thunderbirds and is contracted for the 2023 season.
Two years ago the Dogs asked Essendon for two first-round picks when Dunkley’s manager Liam Pickering made clear he wanted to move clubs.

Essendon baulked but now that he is out of contract the Power believes a single first-round pick is a fair price.

Their first-round pick comes in at No.8 but will push back one spot to nine when Brisbane matches an early bid for father-son Will Ashcroft.

Rhylee West, who has not yet come to terms on a new deal, was dropped for round 23 and did not win back his spot for the finals,

Josh Schache and Stef Martin are uncontracted, while Mitch Wallis says Dogs coach Luke Beveridge is open to him playing on next year under a one-year contract.

As the Western Bulldogs bow out of the 2022 premiership race, coach Luke Beveridge says it is difficult to say whether there was any trauma hanging over from last year’s Grand Final loss to Melbourne.

He does admit that there were frustrations throughout this season, with the internal belief that they could do better.

But as they try to regroup and are forced to turn their attention on 2023, before they can, they need to try to sure up some uncontracted players.

That starts with Josh Dunkley, who Beveridge says they are desperate to keep at Whitten Oval.

Dunkley was arguably the Dogs best in their disappointing Elimination Final loss to Fremantle in Perth on Saturday night.

He had 23 possessions, 15 of them contested and put on 14 tackles. He also had seven clearances.

Several clubs are reportedly having a big crack at the Dogs star, including Brisbane and Port Adelaide.

As the Western Bulldogs bow out of the 2022 premiership race, coach Luke Beveridge says it is difficult to say whether there was any trauma hanging over from last year’s Grand Final loss to Melbourne.

He does admit that there were frustrations throughout this season, with the internal belief that they could do better.

But as they try to regroup and are forced to turn their attention on 2023, before they can, they need to try to sure up some uncontracted players.

[Grantysghost]

Ha, I'm sure they'd take pick 9 for Wines right?

Man we are over a barrel

[GVGjr]

Ha, I'm sure they'd take pick 9 for Wines right?

Man we are over a barrel

Unfortunately it's the nature of the game now.
You often hear clubs say they will back their culture to turn a player around and for whatever reason after 2 years we still haven't been able to convince Dunkley that a very long term and competitive contract offer to keep him at the Kennel and to play alongside with his best mates is enough for him and he is still fielding offers from interstate clubs.
Is the player seeing things we aren't aware of or is he just trying to squeeze out every dollar he can? If it's the latter, we might be better off without him.

[azabob]

Do you think that is likely? It's been reported that we've been putting contracts in front of him and that he is engaged which are indications that he hasn't said to Sam Power and the team that it's more likely I'm leaving.

From a club's perspective is there much difference between "We've still got some work to do" to what we have been saying along the way? We could have easily said talks are on hold until the end of the season a few weeks back if the indication from Dunkley and his managers was that he really wanted to leave.

It really all is speculation isn't it?

I'm sure Power would've have been savvy enough to pick up if Dunkley's manager was delaying with no intent of ever signing. Maybe not; as Pickering's career is all about bluffing.

I'm not surprised Dunkley is leaving but I will be surprised by his choice of club if in fact he leaves to go to Port Adelaide.

[josie]

I’m picky about grammar-shouldn’t the Hun say “shore up” not sure up?

If West and Dunkley go I’ll be upset. Especially West. I’m tired of the whole Dunkley will he stay or go, I want it finished and if he goes I’d like to know why as well as receiving fair compensation.

[EasternWest]

I’m picky about grammar-shouldn’t the Hun say “shore up” not sure up?

That's not being picky that's a fair expectation.

But then again, it's the Herald Sun, so lower your expectations, then lower them again.

[Bullies]

It really all is speculation isn't it?

I'm sure Power would've have been savvy enough to pick up if Dunkley's manager was delaying with no intent of ever signing. Maybe not; as Pickering's career is all about bluffing.

I'm not surprised Dunkley is leaving but I will be surprised by his choice of club if in fact he leaves to go to Port Adelaide.
Pickering knows how to play the game. Dunks was never going to stay after we knocked back his first request. He obviously doesn't want to be there if ours and Ports offer are on par. We move on and hope pick 8 can get us something decent.

[Grantysghost]

Pickering knows how to play the game. Dunks was never going to stay after we knocked back his first request. He obviously doesn't want to be there if ours and Ports offer are on par. We move on and hope pick 8 can get us something decent.

Maybe we can package 9 and 12 for something higher. North might be interested.

[GVGjr]

Maybe we can package 9 and 12 for something higher. North might be interested.

Points wise that is around pick 1 (2880 points vs 3000) so North might bite at that but do we need another high end pick straight after Ugle-Hagan and Darcy?
If we were to land pick 8 for Dunkley and keep pick 11 after any player trades were completed (Lobb) I think we could be tempted to split one of those picks with the aim of getting 3 picks within the top 20.

[Grantysghost]

Points wise that is around pick 1 (2880 points vs 3000) so North might bite at that but do we need another high end pick straight after Ugle-Hagan and Darcy?
If we were to land pick 8 for Dunkley and keep pick 11 after any player trades were completed (Lobb) I think we could be tempted to split one of those picks with the aim of getting 3 picks within the top 20.

Depends on the draft I guess, you follow it more closely G is there a standout after Ashcroft that would suit?

[Hotdog60]

If Dunkley goes doesn't open up the offer for West who could play a similar role and I would think with better disposal.

[bornadog]

The whole bromance was weird, almost like he lost all his mates and had to find a new one.

Do you think it has gone too far to the exclusion of others?

[bornadog]

Points wise that is around pick 1 (2880 points vs 3000) so North might bite at that but do we need another high end pick straight after Ugle-Hagan and Darcy?
If we were to land pick 8 for Dunkley and keep pick 11 after any player trades were completed (Lobb) I think we could be tempted to split one of those picks with the aim of getting 3 picks within the top 20.

I think we need to bring in some young talent, and this would be a good way to do it

[Boots]

I don't think JJ is a huge loss tbh. He's gettign old, he's never really regained the pace he had at the heights of 2016, and his form has never been as good without it. Even if he was that good, I remember some horrible and costly turnovers in the game he won the Norm Smith in (still think it should have been Boyd's). Also after midfielders we have loads of HBFs, so there's not really any space for him is there?

Dunkley is 50-50 as a gain or loss for me. We will really struggle losing his tackles. Our guys just can't tackle (well, stick tackles at any rate), other than Libba and Bont. On the other hand, if he wants out he wants out.

I don't think anyone will cry over losing Cordy immediately. He's slow as molasses. However, I think we might miss him more than we expect once he's gone as he has a fair bit of 'mongrel', even if from time to time it flows over into hotheadedness. We lose some experience in the backline but he doesn't seem much of a leader. The main problem is our backline is a shambles.

Here's the problem - together they represent a significant collective loss. It's three more premiership players. It's a third of our defensive pressure and half of our pace. It's yet another experienced backman leaving a back line that is held together by duct tape as it is. Some how our list becomes even more unbalanced losing all of these guys.

But the biggest problem is, if we add being unable to tackle to being unable to run or mark, what are we going to do? Handball club was fine when we had some semblance of outside run but I haven't seen it in years. We don't overlap like Richmond or Sydney. We look slow and under-skilled. Given how much we've spent on the forward line - and how much we are robbing the backline and to a lesser extent the midfield to do it, if we can't get the forward line working, we're sunk.

I think we are going to have to have a lot more uncontested marking in our style next year:
- Our backline can't reliably cause turnover and our transitions form backline to front line aren't amazing.
- With the lack of effective tackling we constantly exhibit I'm not sure we have what we need any longer to reliably execute the forward press/repeat inside 50s game plan anymore and still make it back to defend them getting out the back.
- We already score from center bounces more than anyone else, with a decent forward line we will kick a lot of goals very quickly.
- With so many strong marking talls who all want to play forward, we should be practicing a forward structure and positioning that allows direct, efficient entries from stoppage.

If we can make this work, who cares about a leaky defence. On their good days nobody can beat our mids, even without Dunks. A goal puts us straight back in center stoppage - right where we want to be. That's keeping the game on our terms.

I know defence wins premierships, but what else do we do with this list after these outs?

[Mantis]

If Dunkley goes doesn't open up the offer for West who could play a similar role and I would think with better disposal.

West had been with us for what, 4-5 years and has never, ever either earned the right of simply smashed down the door to get a run in the midfield for an extended period… and maybe it’s because he had good players in front of him, but it’s surely on him to earn and then take the chance.

And West’s field kicking is as bad, if not worse than Dunks.

[mjp]

If Dunkley goes doesn't open up the offer for West who could play a similar role and I would think with better disposal.

I love the support for young West but geez...

Dunks has been our best player in big games on more than 1 occasion. He has PROVEN it. Expecting West to just slot in and deliver? I'm not sure about that. Are we serious about winning a premiership or not??

West to get more midfield time? That I understand...West to replace Dunkley?

[GVGjr]

Depends on the draft I guess, you follow it more closely G is there a standout after Ashcroft that would suit?

There is 3 or 4 players around the number 1 mark but I'm not sure losing Dunkley and an early pick for pick 1 is an easy sell for the club. Getting 2 early picks in the top 12 or 3 picks in the top 20 might be better for the list.

[mjp]

Depends on the draft I guess, you follow it more closely G is there a standout after Ashcroft that would suit?

Phillipou.

Make it happen.

[Hotdog60]

If were going to lose Dunkley I was throwing West an opportunity not saying his better but an opportunity to grab a spot.
If he is leaving because he feels his a mid rather than a forward a spot has opened up.

[Mantis]

I’m all in on allowing Dunks to move on.

We need a shake up and to bring in some more high end talent… preferably in the midfield. Sure our defence is shaky, but we need to defend better up the field and the current group can’t.

If Dunks moves on it will atleast allow Macrae to start on the ground which might help him from dragging his bottom lip along the ground…. Because he’s here for the next 5 years and we need him to play better than he did in the 2nd half of this year.

[GVGjr]

I love the support for young West but geez...

Dunks has been our best player in big games on more than 1 occasion. He has PROVEN it. Expecting West to just slot in and deliver? I'm not sure about that. Are we serious about winning a premiership or not??

West to get more midfield time? That I understand...West to replace Dunkley?

Agree that West is not a Dunkley replacement. He gives us another option but we would be missing a fair bit on match day.
Just providing opportunities for more of the fringe players isn't necessarily going to mean we can cover him.

[Grantysghost]

Do you think it has gone too far to the exclusion of others?

I don't know really, I'm no psychologist (my wife is explains a few things hey).
I guess if I put myself in his shoes, returning after 2020 was similar to starting again but with people you know.
Treloar comes in, similar boat and they form a bond.

It's probably like a couple of new players coming in almost

I cant speak to his other relationships but he was certainly close with Bont and that seems to have soured.

[GVGjr]

I’m all in on allowing Dunks to move on.

We need a shake up and to bring in some more high end talent… preferably in the midfield. Sure our defence is shaky, but we need to defend better up the field and the current group can’t.

If Dunks moves on it will atleast allow Macrae to start on the ground which might help him from dragging his bottom lip along the ground…. Because he’s here for the next 5 years and we need him to play better than he did in the 2nd half of this year.

Lets say this is how it plays out, Dunkley leaves and it gives us a significant salary cap space and we get Ports pick 8 as compensation.
How does that impact your thoughts on potentially bringing in Lobb and Jones?

To me if Dunks stays we can load up on a couple of experienced players and have another crack, if he is to leave should we clear the decks and focus more on bringing in players via the draft?

[GVGjr]

I don't know really, I'm no psychologist (my wife is explains a few things hey).
I guess if I put myself in his shoes, returning after 2020 was similar to starting again but with people you know.
Treloar comes in, similar boat and they form a bond.

It's probably like a couple of new players coming in almost

I cant speak to his other relationships but he was certainly close with Bont and that seems to have soured.

For whatever reasons I'm not so sure that is the case, they still seem to be close.

[Bullies]

If Dunkley goes doesn't open up the offer for West who could play a similar role and I would think with better disposal. We certainly need West to replace Libber anyway who may have one more year left. Good chance to get him in the mix now when Dunks goes.

[Mantis]

Lets say this is how it plays out, Dunkley leaves and it gives us a significant salary cap space and we get Ports pick 8 as compensation.
How does that impact your thoughts on potentially bringing in Lobb and Jones?

To me if Dunks stays we can load up on a couple of experienced players and have another crack, if he is to leave should we clear the decks and focus more on bringing in players via the draft?

I don’t think Dunks leaving impacts us all that much TBH.

If we bring in Jones for free then that’s a win and I think Cordy moves on.

I think we need one of Bruce or Lobb… not both. If we feel Bruce can get his body to spot he can play like he did in 2021 then we keep him, but otherwise we replace him with Lobb. We do not need both!

We need to be more ruthless with regard to list management… much more ruthless.

Our greatest improvement will come from a greater focus in defending the ground and a better system up forward… and maybe that comes with our young forwards playing more together.

[bornadog]

Phillipou.

Make it happen.

Another father son :) (not father-son eligible )

[Bullies]

Agree that West is not a Dunkley replacement. He gives us another option but we would be missing a fair bit on match day.
Just providing opportunities for more of the fringe players isn't necessarily going to mean we can cover him. Agree with those not rating West however he needs to be given the opportunity to see where he is at. He is not an athlete but a "footballer" much like Tom Mitchell/Sam Mitchell who are all smart footballers and quick with hands/foot and anticipation. We will never know if he is not given the chance and I would hate to see it at another club.

[bornadog]

Agree with those not rating West however he needs to be given the opportunity to see where he is at. He is not an athlete but a "footballer" much like Tom Mitchell/Sam Mitchell who are all smart footballers and quick with hands/foot and anticipation. We will never know if he is not given the chance and I would hate to see it at another club.

I think he has had ample opportunity to prove himself. If he was a top mid he would be regularly racking up 30 plus disposals at VFL level, but he doesn't.

He is still only 22, and must start showing something or he is out.

[Grantysghost]

For whatever reasons I'm not so sure that is the case, they still seem to be close.

They were super tight, travelled OS together, trained with NFL players in the US, visited Nike.

Now not.

[Mofra]

Phillipou.

Make it happen.
Bont mk2?

[soupman]

Agree with those not rating West however he needs to be given the opportunity to see where he is at. He is not an athlete but a "footballer" much like Tom Mitchell/Sam Mitchell who are all smart footballers and quick with hands/foot and anticipation. We will never know if he is not given the chance and I would hate to see it at another club.

The blokes played 25 games including 14 this year (13 in a row), and has been on the list since 2019. If that isn't being given a chance I don't know what is?

After years of being not a fan I was pleased with his first 6 or so games for us this year, but he did drop off and has still yet to establish himself as being an AFL player. He has some good attributes but at this stage could still go either way, and aside from some physical similiarities/limitations he has done nothing to truly be talked about with the Mitchells.

He may be one of the leading candidates to replace the type of role Dunkley/Libba play but from what we've seen expecting him to do so is about 80% hope and 20% reality.

[Scorlibo]

If Dunkley's gone I'd like to see us go to the draft with a good set of picks. We haven't brought in a genuine cohort for a while and there is not much on the open market to satisfy our positional deficits. There's also a bit of a cliff coming for our list, with a bunch of guys around the 30yo mark, and a bunch more crossing the threshold into their late-career.

Sounds like we are getting Lobb, I can only hope it's for a late-ish pick. We'll likely only get two good years out of him, in a position that's destined to be filled by a better player in Sam Darcy. On the plus side big Rory could give a few tips to Sam. There's a bit of a theme emerging actually, to bring in experienced players guiding the development of a young talent with similar makeup. Naughton - Bruce, English - Martin, Darcy - Lobb.

[GVGjr]

Phillipou.

Make it happen.

Similar type to Dunkley in size but probably someone who's uses the ball a bit better and could also score a few more goals throughout a season.

[angelopetraglia]

So much information swirling around Dunks. Not always, but when most players delay signing for this long they are planning to go. However, it ain't plain sailing for him as he is not a free agent. He is again going to be beholden on his target club getting a deal done, albeit they will have more leverage this time as he is not contracted for next year. However, that does mean he could end up anywhere if he goes into the draft.

I feel like I know him better this year after listening to his podcast (so hours of him speaking about a number of topics). A few things that spring to mind that might be relevant.

1) He does have a close bond with Treloar and he isn't going anywhere. I would actually be worried for Treloar's mental state if Dunks were to leave, especially if he goes intersate.

2) He is also super close with Crozier. People have spoken about the Dunks/Bont relationship and the travel they have done together and now don't appear as close. My read on it is that Crozier and Dunks were very tight and Bont was the third wheel. Crozier appears to want some security so may be on the move?

3) Dunks sees himself as a franchise player who has another decade of footy in him. He wants to maximize his career and longevity in the game. He has invested in his own recovery and body with a number of improvements at his house (gym, hot and cold pools etc.). I'm sure he loves the club, but a long contract, security and money to set himself up for life would be high on his agenda.

4) He is a MASSIVE fan of US sports. Why is this important? They change clubs much more frequently than AFL. The player is bigger than the club in many scenarios (LeBron, Brady etc.). This no doubt has an influence to Dunks generation who follow US sports and culture religiously. There is not the same loyalty or devotion to club and I think that has influenced Dunkley.

5) He is also close to his family and he loves the country life. He enjoys getting to his Dad's rural property and and being a lad on the land. That may influence him to potentially stay in Melbourne (I believe his father's property is in the Gippsland area)

I have no idea whether he is going to sign or stay, but just a few points that I believe will influence his decision.

[Happy Days]

Re the US sports stuff, it might be a little unfair but I really believe that Dunks thinks of himself as a big sports star and that making high profile moves between clubs is something that big sports stars do, and isn’t not a driving factor in all of this. It’s as much profile driven as it is an actual want to leave.

[angelopetraglia]

Re the US sports stuff, it might be a little unfair but I really believe that Dunks thinks of himself as a big sports star and that making high profile moves between clubs is something that big sports stars do, and isn’t not a driving factor in all of this. It’s as much profile driven as it is an actual want to leave.

Yes. Agree. That is definitely a factor in all of this. Even if his intention is to actually stay this time. It's like a smaller version of LeBron "The Decision".

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yes. Agree. That is definitely a factor in all of this. Even his intention is to actually stay this time. It's like a smaller version of LeBron "The Decision".

Amusingly I can hear Dunkley saying "I'll be taking my talent to Port Adelaide".

[angelopetraglia]

The champion players in the AFL have traditionally been loyal. They have strived to be one club players. But in recent times this has started to change a little with some high profile players moving clubs for various reasons. We have all been conditioned to accept this as part of the game. The expansion clubs have played a big role in this.

Some high profile players who have moved clubs with a lot of media and had success at their new club in recent times.

Judd
Ablett
Franklin
Dangerfield
Cameron
Lynch
May
Prestia
Treloar
Lever
Kelly
Boyd

Just to name a few.

What is also interesting is that in recent times the Premier has been assisted by these movements.

Melbourne = May, Lever, Brown, Hibberd, Langdon
Richmond = Lynch, Prestia, Houli, Caddy, Nakervis
Eagles = Jetta, Kennedy, Vardy
Bulldogs = Boyd (we actually relied on the least imports compared to other recent flags)
Hawks = Lake, Frawley, Hill, Gunston, Hale, McEvoy
Swans = Shaw, Richards, Kennedy

[G-Mo77]

I’m picky about grammar-shouldn’t the Hun say “shore up” not sure up?

If West and Dunkley go I’ll be upset. Especially West. I’m tired of the whole Dunkley will he stay or go, I want it finished and if he goes I’d like to know why as well as receiving fair compensation.

I'm in the same boat. Sick of all the saga with Dunkley, he's been a great servant but just go already, I'm sick of it.

West I'd be more upset to lose. Those bloodlines are deep, losing him would just severe some wonderful history. It's not like he wasn't good enough, we're choosing Country footballers in his place. I don't blame him if he wants to go.


Are they still annoyed we blocked his Essendon move?

Meh, I wouldn't think so but if so that's not our fault. He had 2 on the contract, we were under no obligation to break it.

[chef]

Geez Dunks is arguably our 2nd best player, going to leave a massive whole in our side playing and on field leadership wise.

[G-Mo77]

Geez Dunks is arguably our 2nd best player, going to leave a massive whole in our side playing and on field leadership wise.

Absolutely but he doesn't want to be here. Tried to break his contract already, now out of contract, unsigned going into the off-season. The writing is on the wall and in bold.

[chef]

Absolutely but he doesn't want to be here. Tried to break his contract already, now out of contract, unsigned going into the off-season. The writing is on the wall and in bold.

Makes you wonder why hes so desperate to leave.

[Mantis]

Makes you wonder why he's so desperate to leave.

I would think the 2 main factors would be lack of professionalism of some members of the playing group over the past 4-5 years and then $$/ brand opportunities as has been alluded to on here.

[G-Mo77]

Makes you wonder why hes so desperate to leave.

On the other side of the coin most other players out of contract have stayed on. So the initial thought from me was "What are we doing wrong?" Maybe we're not doing anything wrong, maybe it's the player? We'll never know? :confused:

[MrMahatma]

Geez Dunks is arguably our 2nd best player, going to leave a massive whole in our side playing and on field leadership wise.

Very good player and in his prime. I can’t see him staying but if he does, I’ll be happy. If he leaves, I’ll be hoping we go to the draft with a couple of top 12 picks. I think we can turn it into upside. Pick a KPD and mid in the first round this year and keep refreshing the list organically.

I’d love to manufacture a way to get a KPD in their prime also though.

[chef]

On the other side of the coin most other players out of contract have stayed on. So the initial thought from me was "What are we doing wrong?" Maybe we're not doing anything wrong, maybe it's the player? We'll never know? :confused:

Its kind of weird he from being Bonts best mate, preseason buddy and VC(?)to wanting out within a season.

[whythelongface]

On the other side of the coin most other players out of contract have stayed on. So the initial thought from me was "What are we doing wrong?" Maybe we're not doing anything wrong, maybe it's the player? We'll never know? :confused:

Maybe the lure of being in the top 2 mids is important so Port is a good fit (plus his GF being in Adelaide). It would be great if we can keep Dunks but at the end of the day if he wants to change then so be it. Just hurry and make your mind up. It is just so distracting and drawn out. The club is bigger than the individual and if we get good compensation for him leaving then I am ok with it.

[angelopetraglia]

Maybe the lure of being in the top 2 mids is important so Port is a good fit (plus his GF being in Adelaide). It would be great if we can keep Dunks but at the end of the day if he wants to change then so be it. Just hurry and make your mind up. It is just so distracting and drawn out. The club is bigger than the individual and if we get good compensation for him leaving then I am ok with it.

His GF is only in Adelaide as she is a professional netballer. She could end up anywhere season to season. She isn't from Adelaide. Before that she played in Brisbane (how he met her) and she was a bit of a nomad growing up (her dad had corporate gigs throughout SE Asia).

[whythelongface]

I would think the 2 main factors would be lack of professionalism of some members of the playing group over the past 4-5 years and then $$/ brand opportunities as has been alluded to on here.

Lack of professionalism is interesting. Every club has one or two players that probably don’t live up to the standards expected. I suppose the one in our court has an extremely high profile thus is played out in the media more. But gee if this is a reason then he will be in for a shock.

[whythelongface]

His GF is only in Adelaide as she is a professional netballer. She could end up anywhere season to season. She isn't from Adelaide. Before that she played in Brisbane (how he met her) and she was a bit of a nomad growing up (her dad had corporate gigs throughout SE Asia).

Thanks for clarifying but she is there at present and indications are she is staying put. Thus it must play some part in the decision making process

[Mantis]

Thanks for clarifying but she is there at present and indications are she is staying put. Thus it must play some part in the decision making process

I have no idea how easy it is for netballers to move from team to team, given only 7 on the court and very specialized positions but,

GF plays in Adel earning $50- $100k... average wage is $74k.
BF plays in Melb earning $600-$700k.

Is it that hard of a decision if the BF wants to stay in Melb?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

So what do we think we should do - and will do - this off season with the current list?

What I would do:

Trade:
- Dunkley (rather he stay but seems certain to go)
- Hunter (his fall from grace has been sad to see)
- JJ
- Crozier
- Cordy

Actively Shop:
- English
- Weightman
- Vandermeer
- Williams

Delist/Retire:
- Butler
- Martin

** Wallis a wait and see. May need him for 1 more year.

What I think we will do:

Trade:
- Dunkley
- JJ
- Hunter or Williams
- Crozier
- Schache

Delist/Retire:
- Butler
- Martin
- Parker

[angelopetraglia]

I have no idea how easy it is for netballers to move from team to team, given only 7 on the court and very specialized positions but,

GF plays in Adel earning $50- $100k... average wage is $74k.
BF plays in Melb earning $600-$700k.

Is it that hard of a decision if the BF wants to stay in Melb?

100%. It can't be the driving factor. Netball doesn't give any security either. When she was on his Podcast, she mentioned that they are only being offered one year contracts. She has played in Adelaide for one season.

[bornadog]

According to Jon Ralph


The Port trade offer for Dunkley. Dogs offer is around $650K. Not sure Port offer is much bigger than that despite reports. But if you haven’t signed after talks started 11 months ago you are surely a big chance to leave. West, JJ, Martin, Cordy also out

[MrMahatma]

So what do we think we should do - and will do - this off season with the current list?

What I would do:

Trade:
- Dunkley (rather he stay but seems certain to go)
- Hunter (his fall from grace has been sad to see)
- JJ
- Crozier
- Cordy

Actively Shop:
- English
- Weightman
- Vandermeer
- Williams

Delist/Retire:
- Butler
- Martin

** Wallis a wait and see. May need him for 1 more year.

What I think we will do:

Trade:
- Dunkley
- JJ
- Hunter or Williams
- Crozier
- Schache

Delist/Retire:
- Butler
- Martin
- Parker

Actively shop English (who we signed this season?) and Cody?

No way.

[bornadog]

Actively shop English (who we signed this season?) and Cody?

No way.

Yeah get rid of virtually the only ruckman on the list and the 21 year old who has kicked 36 goals. FMD

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Actively shop English (who we signed this season?) and Cody?

No way.

English is the worst first choice ruck in the league at actually rucking.

He was destroyed v Darcy and I'm tired of seeing Tim manhandled at throw ins. When he doesn't have a big impact around the ground, English is an absolute liability. How many times did Darcy dispose of English and either clear a complete path for his mids or just grab the ball himself? This isn't new and it happens all the time.

English is good for 2-3 'breakout' games against decent rucks a year. For the rest of the time, his ruck craft and ability to be a presence is putrid.

Two things. Either;

1) Make him the second ruck/forward that he ACTUALLY is, or;
2) Trade him for quality assets.

I'm not saying this is what WILL happen, this is only what *I* would do.

I'm not sure who brought it up on here, but someone mentioned getting Grundy in replace of English. I would be all for it.

On Cody, I just don't rate him. I posted it in another thread in more detail so I won't rehash it, but effectively he's a 1.5 goals a game player who offers nothing else. Goals are great, but what does he do to impact the contest/game from the other 119 minutes? He isn't an assist player, he can't mark (but tries), he can't tackle/apply pressure .... I get it's a harsh call and surprising to some, but his game is so critically flawed and the major issues he's had from day one are the exact same major issues he has now. Can he turn it around? Possibly, but at some stage you have to start believing what you're seeing.

IF we are playing 3 talls (Naughty, Marra, Bruce/Darcy/Lobb) I don't see a spot for a small who tries to play tall and offers the same defensive pressure as a tall.

For years I've read how English will be a great ruck once he matures, well, we're still waiting. I see no reason we won't be having the same conversation about Cody in 24 months time.

[Mofra]

Similar type to Dunkley in size but probably someone who's uses the ball a bit better and could also score a few more goals throughout a season.
I doubt he lasts until our current pick. Only chance is if Port trade their first for him and nobody jumps in first.

[Mofra]

According to Jon Ralph
Looks like we lose West and Dunks.
Garcia would want a good pre-season as that hard-nut HF scrapper

[Grantysghost]

According to Jon Ralph

Why would West leave after his breakout season?

Are these guys that precious that if they don't get picked they sook it up.

Bevo clearly rates him.

I get the VDM selection is probably the wrong one but to leave on the back of this season I'd be really surprised.

Unless we are low balling him and someone else has upped the ante.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Why would West leave after his breakout season?

Are these guys that precious that if they don't get picked they sook it up.

Bevo clearly rates him.

I get the VDM selection is probably the wrong one but to leave on the back of this season I'd be really surprised.

Unless we are low balling him and someone else has upped the ante.

I don't think it would surprise if he wanted out.

If a side came to him and said 'we see you in our best 22, playing every week, earning more money' why would he say no? At this point, the F/S romance would be gone for him. It's about his career.

[Mantis]

Why would West leave after his breakout season?

Are these guys that precious that if they don't get picked they sook it up.

Bevo clearly rates him.

I get the VDM selection is probably the wrong one but to leave on the back of this season I'd be really surprised.

Unless we are low balling him and someone else has upped the ante.

He (or his manager) might have had discussions with other clubs who have offered him some midfield minutes and he probably sees himself as a midfielder?

Pretty sure the only midfield minutes he saw with us was when we were getting flogged by Sydney and we had run out of ideas.

[Grantysghost]

I don't think it would surprise if he wanted out.

If a side came to him and said 'we see you in our best 22, playing every week, earning more money' why would he say no? At this point, the F/S romance would be gone for him. It's about his career.

He's got amazing vision, it can't be taught. I'd be really upset if we lost him.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He's got amazing vision, it can't be taught. I'd be really upset if we lost him.

I'm probably not as high on him as others, but I hope he stays.

We've lost good depth in recent times, and given we seem likely to lose Dunkley/JJ/Crozier/Martin/Schache and possibly a Hunter/Williams type, losing West would hurt.

[Bullies]

I'm probably not as high on him as others, but I hope he stays.

We've lost good depth in recent times, and given we seem likely to lose Dunkley/JJ/Crozier/Martin/Schache and possibly a Hunter/Williams type, losing West would hurt. We have put a lot of work into West. He does have great vision and a good read on the game. He will get better especially as a mid. Obviously with Dunks something is amiss if the contracts with both us and Port are on par and he wants out.

[FrediKanoute]

I think he has had ample opportunity to prove himself. If he was a top mid he would be regularly racking up 30 plus disposals at VFL level, but he doesn't.

He is still only 22, and must start showing something or he is out.

Just like Lipinski got plenty of opportunities......sorry but the midfield has been a closed shop for the last 4 or 5 seasons and made worse over the last 2 with Treloar coming in. To say West has had opportunities in the midfield is being very disingenuous. He has been asked to play a small defensive forward role and he nailed that this year. He has all the traits of an inside mid who can distribute to the outside, but we already have Libba and possible Dunk's in that role.

I think we missed a trick not giving West/Garcia a shot at more midfield time this season.

[bornadog]

Just like Lipinski got plenty of opportunities......sorry but the midfield has been a closed shop for the last 4 or 5 seasons and made worse over the last 2 with Treloar coming in. To say West has had opportunities in the midfield is being very disingenuous. He has been asked to play a small defensive forward role and he nailed that this year. He has all the traits of an inside mid who can distribute to the outside, but we already have Libba and possible Dunk's in that role.

I think we missed a trick not giving West/Garcia a shot at more midfield time this season.

Why hasn't he shown these inside mid attributes at VFL level? The VFL captain Sullivan and McComb are the ones showing VFL form, not always West.

This is my point in having opportunities to show his ability. Show me at VFL level and then I can try you in the seniors.

[DOG GOD]

If west is gone, maybe that was the reason he was dropped.
I’ll be livid if he goes, but wouldn’t hold it against him personally when guys like McNeil, Vanders and McComb have been picked ahead of him. Disgraceful.

[bornadog]

If west is gone, maybe that was the reason he was dropped.
I’ll be livid if he goes, but wouldn’t hold it against him personally when guys like McNeil, Vanders and McComb have been picked ahead of him. Disgraceful.

West was dropped because he played poorly for a few games. McComb hasn't been picked in the 22 for weeks now. McNeil was in and out. I agree VDM really shouldn't have played.

[Grantysghost]

West was dropped because he played poorly for a few games. McComb hasn't been picked in the 22 for weeks now. McNeil was in and out. I agree VDM really shouldn't have played.

Yes i don't think there's any conspiracy against West. He had a great month or so, really broke out.

Then he tapered off and looked tired. I would've made the same call, I actually wanted him rested a week prior to when he was dropped.

If he leaves I'd be more dissapointed in him to be honest.

Young fringe players are in and out of the team at most clubs.

[DOG GOD]

I'm probably not as high on him as others, but I hope he stays.

We've lost good depth in recent times, and given we seem likely to lose Dunkley/JJ/Crozier/Martin/Schache and possibly a Hunter/Williams type, losing West would hurt.

Losing Dunkley AND West will mean more games for McComb. Make of that what you will.

[GVGjr]

Looks like we lose West and Dunks.
Garcia would want a good pre-season as that hard-nut HF scrapper

Good source? I think we could lose one but would be disappointed if we lost both of them.

[Mantis]

Losing Dunkley AND West will mean more games for McComb. Make of that what you will.

No it doesn't... One would like to think that both Garcia & McLean play much more senior footy in 2023. Also think Scott is someone who is well ahead of McComb too.

[GVGjr]

I doubt he lasts until our current pick. Only chance is if Port trade their first for him and nobody jumps in first.

Adelaide will have to commit their 1st rounder for Rankine and if Port land Dunks you would imagine their first round is heading our way.

If pick 8 (moving to 9) isn't enough then so be it as there should be someone else sliding our way

[DOG GOD]

West was dropped because he played poorly for a few games. McComb hasn't been picked in the 22 for weeks now. McNeil was in and out. I agree VDM really shouldn't have played.

Getting dropped for playing poorly for a few games? Pity that doesn’t hold for other players as well.
When Weightman did his elbow he couldn’t lift his arm and had about 2 possessions for a few games…

[DOG GOD]

No it doesn't... One would like to think that both Garcia & McLean play much more senior footy in 2023. Also think Scott is someone who is well ahead of McComb too.

Well, all those you mentioned SHOULD be ahead of McComb, but who the hell would know with our MC

[Grantysghost]

Getting dropped for playing poorly for a few games? Pity that doesn’t hold for other players as well.
When Weightman did his elbow he couldn’t lift his arm and had about 2 possessions for a few games…

Weightman appears to be judged differently that's a fair observation.
He has also kicked 30 goals so it's kind of understandable.

I guess the mc dropped Bruce so it's not like they were playing favs.

I'd say if the season went much longer Weightman would be in the gun.

[kruder]

I know you can't keep them all and JJ is a role player these days but I must say I'm going to be sad if he is leaving. Football isn't for the romantics anymore that's for sure.

[G-Mo77]

West was dropped because he played poorly for a few games. McComb hasn't been picked in the 22 for weeks now. McNeil was in and out. I agree VDM really shouldn't have played.

Serious question but which games was he so poor he was put back not to be seen again. I really can't remember them.

[1eyedog]

The last three prior to being dropped were sub-par. He was barely touching it and running around like a headless chook.

[G-Mo77]

The last three prior to being dropped were sub-par. He was barely touching it and running around like a headless chook.

Looking statistically apart from the Freo game he wasn't too bad.

[Danjul]

The last three prior to being dropped were sub-par. He was barely touching it and running around like a headless chook.
In his last game he had 13 disposals, Vandermeer 9, Weightman 8.

He has done better but he did touch it. And some were important.

[soupman]

Fwiw seems Junior Rioli might be headed Ports way. If so thats bad news for us, as if Dunkley goes there as well it really limits what they can offer us. I assume they'll try and do the whole future second for Rioli which means we cant push for their future first.

Again I'll say we should already be in Willem Drews ear.

[FrediKanoute]

The last three prior to being dropped were sub-par. He was barely touching it and running around like a headless chook.

See, I disagree. He was below the level he had been producing, but he wasn't sub-par. He was still effective in what he was being tasked to do. The difference was that there were other players who shone during those week's. His role as a defensive forward is all about pressure and locking the ball into the forward line, with goals a bonus. I tihink his goals output was down, but his possession count was still at the same level.

Would be interested to see the level of assists/score involvemt's and pressure acts for those last 3 weeks vis a vis the weeek's he was flying.,

[1eyedog]

I concede when you extrapolate his performances prior to him being dropped across the performances of players like VDM, McComb and Weightman I concede he was still making a contribution. Sub-par was very harsh, but he did drop off markedly because he was looking really sharp.

[Danjul]

I concede when you extrapolate his performances prior to him being dropped across the performances of players like VDM, McComb and Weightman I concede he was still making a contribution. Sub-par was very harsh, but he did drop off markedly because he was looking really sharp.
Agree. He did drop away but his early games give optimism. His strength in a pack is quite remarkable.

[jazzadogs]

Hopper is on the market, with Geelong and Richmond leading the race. He would be a good replacement for Dunkley? Assume their offers for Hopper will exceed what we are offering Dunks though.

[Mofra]

Hopper is on the market, with Geelong and Richmond leading the race. He would be a good replacement for Dunkley? Assume their offers for Hopper will exceed what we are offering Dunks though.
Almost certainly going to Geelong. I doubt we can offer the midfield minutes he wants.

We simply have to ask for players as part of a trade. Brisbane - Payne, Port - Bergman

[Bullies]

I know you can't keep them all and JJ is a role player these days but I must say I'm going to be sad if he is leaving. Football isn't for the romantics anymore that's for sure. He will also be playing of half back which is his best position. Good get for the Suns.

[Sedat]

Almost certainly going to Geelong. I doubt we can offer the midfield minutes he wants.

We simply have to ask for players as part of a trade. Brisbane - Payne, Port - Bergman
I rate Bergman but he's not exactly the type of player that we are in short supply of.

If we lose Dunkley (and I'm hopeful we don't), we need to add in another ready-made pure mid. I dont mind Soupaman's suggestion of Willem Drew. He's obviously a downgrade on Dunkley but he stiffens our inside midfield capabilities and has a natural defensive mindset, providing much needed balance in our mid rotations.

[Hot_Doggies]

I rate Bergman but he's not exactly the type of player that we are in short supply of.

If we lose Dunkley (and I'm hopeful we don't), we need to add in another ready-made pure mid. I dont mind Soupaman's suggestion of Willem Drew. He's obviously a downgrade on Dunkley but he stiffens our inside midfield capabilities and has a natural defensive mindset, providing much needed balance in our mid rotations.

If we chase someone like Bergman or even Lobb we cannot afford to downgrade our 2x first round picks (~8 & 12).

Our next premiership will come from Naughton, Darcy, JUH, Bailey Smith, English, Weightman and future first round picks.

Bont , Mccrae , Treloar and Libba if still around will be a cherry on top.

Personally I would prefer if we took 2 steps back and hit the draft hard in the next 2-3 years, rather than going down the Lobb path.

[GVGjr]

If we chase someone like Bergman or even Lobb we cannot afford to downgrade our 2x first round picks (~8 & 12).

Our next premiership will come from Naughton, Darcy, JUH, Bailey Smith, English, Weightman and future first round picks.

Bont , Mccrae , Treloar and Libba if still around will be a cherry on top.

Personally I would prefer if we took 2 steps back and hit the draft hard in the next 2-3 years, rather than going down the Lobb path.

This is why a review of our failings this season needs to happen. We need to determine if we go hard at the trade or revamp the side via the draft table.

[bornadog]

This is why a review of our failings this season needs to happen. We need to determine if we go hard at the trade or revamp the side via the draft table.

We don't need to take a step back, but we have to also think of the future as some of our better players start to come towards the end of their careers. Geelong have done it so well without slipping backwards.

[Mantis]

He will also be playing of half back which is his best position. Good get for the Suns.

He was good off HB pre-2018, but as soon as teams put physical pressure on him his form waned.

[Bullies]

He was good off HB pre-2018, but as soon as teams put physical pressure on him his form waned.
But they have a lot of other players to worry about these days before JJ. He wouldn't be considered a go to player anymore.

[Mofra]

I rate Bergman but he's not exactly the type of player that we are in short supply of.

If we lose Dunkley (and I'm hopeful we don't), we need to add in another ready-made pure mid. I dont mind Soupaman's suggestion of Willem Drew. He's obviously a downgrade on Dunkley but he stiffens our inside midfield capabilities and has a natural defensive mindset, providing much needed balance in our mid rotations.
I disagree - Bergman has all the tools to become and incredible marking wingman, a position we've rotated heavily this year.

Drew becomes another midfielder in a logjam of other mids. Might be a hard sell - "hey, want to play in that HF deadzone and watch other mids get opportunities you won't?"

[GVGjr]

We don't need to take a step back, but we have to also think of the future as some of our better players start to come towards the end of their careers. Geelong have done it so well without slipping backwards.

Is it worth bringing in Lobb and Jones if it isn't going to make us a top 5 side? It might just make us a better class of a mid table side.
We can't compare ourselves with Geelong who have been excellent at getting top line players to take a bit less in their contracts for the overall benefit of playing on a contending club. I don't think we have seen that from our own elite players let alone help us attract top line players from other sides.

Lobb fits our needs no doubt and Jones is virtually a freebie but if we lose Dunkley will we be a stronger side than we were this season?

[Sedat]

This is why a review of our failings this season needs to happen. We need to determine if we go hard at the trade or revamp the side via the draft table.
The club has stated on the public record that we are in the window and have been for 2 years. Clearly that makes our season a significant failure, and we need to review much more than whether or not to bring in a couple of experienced players in positions of need or take a step back and regenerate through the draft (no reason why we can't do both without having to take a step back). Why did we limp into finals and then blow a 7 goal lead when we are 'contending'? There are a myriad of reasons way beyond a couple of positional needs.

Of far more importance is to determine whether or not the game style and structure needs tweaking or a requires complete overhaul - there is no scenario whatsoever whereby a 27 goal to 3 run in our last 2 finals is acceptable. Further, we absolutely need to review our fitness/conditioning staff - there have been too many soft tissue and recurring injuries for this to be swept under the carpet. We also clearly need to review the overall footy dept and what additional support is required for the senior coach. We need to review the support and wellness areas for our players and whether or not this is resourced enough or requires more investment.

I sincerely hope our off-season is not simply "get Jones and Lobb and we will contend again". That would be deeply insulting to Bulldog fans, and would also prove that we have not learned a single thing from the unmitigated disaster that was the last 40 mins of the 2021 GF. Failure is feedback, and we need to learn the lessons of failure so we set about on a path of sustained improvement.

[GVGjr]

I disagree - Bergman has all the tools to become and incredible marking wingman, a position we've rotated heavily this year.

Drew becomes another midfielder in a logjam of other mids. Might be a hard sell - "hey, want to play in that HF deadzone and watch other mids get opportunities you won't?"

Bergman would be a nice fit for us and I'd certainly consider Duursma if he could be tempted and we couldn't get Ports first rounder off them.

[GVGjr]

The club has stated on the public record that we are in the window and have been for 2 years. Clearly that makes our season a significant failure, and we need to review much more than whether or not to bring in a couple of experienced players in positions of need or take a step back and regenrate through the draft (no reason why we can't do both without having to take a step back). Why did we limp into finals and then blow a 7 goal lead when we are 'contending'? There are a myriad of reasons way beyond a couple of positional needs.

Of far more importance is to determine whether or not the game style and structure needs tweaking or a requires complete overhaul - there is no scenario whatsoever whereby a 27 goal to 3 run in our last 2 finals is acceptable. Further, we absolutely need to review our fitness/conditioning staff - there have been too many soft tissue and recurring injuries for this to be swept under the carpet. We also clearly need to review the overall footy dept and what additional support is required for the senior coach. We need to review the support and wellness areas for our players and whether or not this is resourced enough or requires more investment.

I sincerely hope our off-season is not simply "get Jones and Lobb and we will contend again". That would be deeply insulting to Bulldog fans, and would also prove that we have not learned a single thing from the unmitigated disaster that was the last 40 mins of the 2021 GF. Failure is feedback, and we need to learn the lessons of failure so we set about on a path of sustained improvement.

Thanks Sedat, I'm not saying we need to step back but knowing where we really are could change or shape our approach.
Yes the club has said we are in a window and I suspect they really believed that and I think we have a strong playing list but Bevo's recent comments and our faltering performances this season might now be the catalyst for a rethink.

It really all hinges on Dunkley staying or going from my perspective. If he stays lets top up with some needs based talent and have a genuine crack at it but if he goes I'd rather invest a bit more in the draft and look for players like Jones who will cost us nothing or some low key trades and back our development of our younger guys for a season.

[azabob]

Bergman would be a nice fit for us and I'd certainly consider Duursma if he could be tempted and we couldn't get Ports first rounder off them.

Can Duursma at least leave the bow and arrow in SA if he comes to the club?

[jazzadogs]

Almost certainly going to Geelong. I doubt we can offer the midfield minutes he wants.

We simply have to ask for players as part of a trade. Brisbane - Payne, Port - Bergman

I thought he was on his way to the Cats too, but reported he met with Richmond yesterday so not a done deal yet. We could consider throwing our hat in that ring.

Dunks is an elite talent - there is no reason that we shouldn't target other elite talent like Butters to come back the other way.

[Axe Man]

Any interest in Ratugolea as a KPD?

FRINGE CAT ‘ONE TO WATCH’

Geelong utility Esava Ratugolea is “one to watch” this trade period, according to SEN, despite being contracted to the Cats for another season.

Ratugolea has struggled to break into the Cats’ best 22 during their dominant 2022 campaign. He played the first three games of the season before losing his spot and only regaining it in Round 23 as Geelong rested an array of players.

The 24-year-old impressed as a defender against West Coast in Round 23 but then wasn’t selected for Saturday night’s qualifying final against Collingwood. He’s also been used as a key forward and ruckman in the past by the Cats.

Ratugolea attracted interest from the Giants when the Cats were attempting to strike a deal for superstar forward Jeremy Cameron in late 2020.

Speaking on SEN’s Crunch Time on the weekend, senior reporter Sam Edmund said Ratugolea was “one to watch in terms of testing the waters” this off-season.

“He’s a chance of making it as a defender elsewhere I reckon … a switch back to an athletic interceptor, he’s showed what he might be able to do at that part of the ground,” Edmund told Crunch Time.

“GWS came calling when Jeremy Cameron was traded and the Cats famously said get stuffed, I wonder now whether enough water has gone under the bridge where Esava will be looking just to play football, to be honest, he’s been frozen out at Geelong with the depth they’ve got there.”

Ratugolea has played 59 games for Geelong since being taken with Pick 43 in the 2016 draft.

Link (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/department-of-trade/afl-trade-news-rumours-whispers-2022-darcy-tucker-north-melbourne-jack-riewoldt-richmond-contract-offer-esava-ratugolea-gws-giants/news-story/65b40204092c7baa301dff6394f754db?recommendedCount=0)

[azabob]

Ratugolea certainly has height and size so in theory he would be a good target.

No idea if he can defend though. Surely that is up for debate.

What position did he play under age footy?

[GVGjr]

Ratugolea certainly has height and size so in theory he would be a good target.

No idea if he can defend though. Surely that is up for debate.

What position did he play under age footy?

Forward and a bit of ruck from memory.
Kicked a couple of bags of goals in his junior footy days

[Grantysghost]

When I've seen him on TV he's looked pretty good.

Worth a look I think.

[bornadog]

Forward and a bit of ruck from memory.
Kicked a couple of bags of goals in his junior footy days

We need a big backman. Jones for free, plus a young tall to develop into a future Jones

[azabob]

We need a big backman. Jones for free, plus a young tall to develop into a future Jones

Is 198cm and 108kg acceptable? Not sure on his ability thought!

[Mofra]

Ratugolea certainly has height and size so in theory he would be a good target.

No idea if he can defend though. Surely that is up for debate.

What position did he play under age footy?
Cats fans think he just doesn't have the tank to play FT ruck.
Can he play in defence the way we want him to? Gardner is an aerobic beast for his size and Zaine was no slouch.

[Mantis]

We need a big backman. Jones for free, plus a young tall to develop into a future Jones

So next year we should have:

Jones - 199cm
Gardner - 197cm
Keath - 197cm

Is that not enough ready-mades?

[bornadog]

So next year we should have:

Jones - 199cm
Gardner - 197cm
Keath - 197cm

Is that not enough ready-mades?

Is Keath cooked? I don't have any faith in him. Jones is short term. We have to have a developing backman

[Mofra]

So next year we should have:

Jones - 199cm
Gardner - 197cm
Keath - 197cm

Is that not enough ready-mades?
Maybe he wants a good one - and there are huge question marks over all three.

Gardner isn't a no 1 - he's and honest battler
Jones hasn't played for 18 months and relies on athleticism to be competitive
Keath looks cooked

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I've long laughed at Esava's interpretation of a forward, but he's actually been OK in the ruck at times. Never seen him play down back, but he has the size and athletic traits to do it.

These are the types of players/moves we should be looking at.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Thinking about our current structure, how would we feel about Daniel and Dale both moving up the ground?

Both have had, at times, spectacular results as HBs but I'm of the opinion that their skill set would be better suited in fixing our huge mid/forward connection issues.

Dale struggled with a tag a few times this season, and while that's not reason alone to suddenly change him from where he became the player he is, I wonder if he can go to another level by being moved up the ground now that he knows he's one of the better players running around? When he gets the ball forward of center, he's so dangerous. Problem is that doesn't happen nearly enough.

Daniel's a versatile type, but I think as a defender he's been found out. In a better system it would still be fine, but I'd like to see him go back to the 2016 role where he had stints in the midfield and even across half forward. Get the ball in his hands in dangerous positions.

The connection between our mids/forwards is awful, and whilst on raw numbers we pump the ball forward, the quality of entries has long been a big issue for this group. I know moving them up the ground means we need to find replacements down back, but I think we can do it with a combination of what's already on the list (i.e. Cleary? Vandermeer? Williams?) and trade/draft.

[Mofra]

Thinking about our current structure, how would we feel about Daniel and Dale both moving up the ground?

Both have had, at times, spectacular results as HBs but I'm of the opinion that their skill set would be better suited in fixing our huge mid/forward connection issues.

Dale struggled with a tag a few times this season, and while that's not reason alone to suddenly change him from where he became the player he is, I wonder if he can go to another level by being moved up the ground now that he knows he's one of the better players running around? When he gets the ball forward of center, he's so dangerous. Problem is that doesn't happen nearly enough.

Daniel's a versatile type, but I think as a defender he's been found out. In a better system it would still be fine, but I'd like to see him go back to the 2016 role where he had stints in the midfield and even across half forward. Get the ball in his hands in dangerous positions.

The connection between our mids/forwards is awful, and whilst on raw numbers we pump the ball forward, the quality of entries has long been a big issue for this group. I know moving them up the ground means we need to find replacements down back, but I think we can do it with a combination of what's already on the list (i.e. Cleary? Vandermeer? Williams?) and trade/draft.
Keep Dale back, but we really need Daniel delivering that last kick into the F50.
Whether that's a change of position or change of role, I don't know.

[DOG GOD]

Keep Dale back, but we really need Daniel delivering that last kick into the F50.
Whether that's a change of position or change of role, I don't know.

Agree, need Dale’s kicking in defence. I like Daniel as a half fwd who can kick it well inside the F50. We just need players like Gunston, Jamie Elliott types who are great on the lead and can utilise Daniel’s skills.

[bornadog]

Keep Dale back, but we really need Daniel delivering that last kick into the F50.
Whether that's a change of position or change of role, I don't know.

Could we be looking at VDM to replace Daniel in the backline. He started off as a HBF, and we could use his pace in the backline?

[Mofra]

Could we be looking at VDM to replace Daniel in the backline. He started off as a HBF, and we could use his pace in the backline?
I love his endeavour, but I am not sold. It's worth trialling over the pre-season - IIRC he was drafted as a HB rebounder

[DOG GOD]

Could we be looking at VDM to replace Daniel in the backline. He started off as a HBF, and we could use his pace in the backline?

Not for mine Bornadog. He’d turn the ball over in the centre allowing opposition easy access back into their f50.

[G-Mo77]

Could we be looking at VDM to replace Daniel in the backline. He started off as a HBF, and we could use his pace in the backline?

VFL maybe. I personally don't want to see him again at AFL level.

[GVGjr]

Could we be looking at VDM to replace Daniel in the backline. He started off as a HBF, and we could use his pace in the backline?

From what I have seen he's a rusher and not composed enough. That might change though if trained the right way.

[F'scary]

Thinking about our current structure, how would we feel about Daniel and Dale both moving up the ground?

Both have had, at times, spectacular results as HBs but I'm of the opinion that their skill set would be better suited in fixing our huge mid/forward connection issues.

Dale struggled with a tag a few times this season, and while that's not reason alone to suddenly change him from where he became the player he is, I wonder if he can go to another level by being moved up the ground now that he knows he's one of the better players running around? When he gets the ball forward of center, he's so dangerous. Problem is that doesn't happen nearly enough.

Daniel's a versatile type, but I think as a defender he's been found out. In a better system it would still be fine, but I'd like to see him go back to the 2016 role where he had stints in the midfield and even across half forward. Get the ball in his hands in dangerous positions.

The connection between our mids/forwards is awful, and whilst on raw numbers we pump the ball forward, the quality of entries has long been a big issue for this group. I know moving them up the ground means we need to find replacements down back, but I think we can do it with a combination of what's already on the list (i.e. Cleary? Vandermeer? Williams?) and trade/draft.

I like your ideas with Daniel and Dale. If we can permanently backfill them in defence each week with two out of Cleary, Khamis, Williams, there would be the added benefit of not having to select low possession, absolute ball butchers like McComb, McNeil, Van Der Meer, and Roarke every week.

[DOG GOD]

.
@pafc
Port’s pursuit of Western Bulldogs gun Josh Dunkley has been given a boost with the 25-year-old star revealing that life outside of footy will play a major role in his decision. Details in 7NEWS Adelaide at 6pm

[Grantysghost]

.
@pafc
Port’s pursuit of Western Bulldogs gun Josh Dunkley has been given a boost with the 25-year-old star revealing that life outside of footy will play a major role in his decision. Details in 7NEWS Adelaide at 6pm

Please Dunks just shut up until you've gone.

[josie]

It’s all becoming a bit of a sideshow. I think Dunks has been good for us and I’m also comfortable if he leaves as I think Power is a good negotiator. Our playing list needs a revamp. Worried the only names we are linked to are 30yo+ or a small forward delisted from crows with question marks over them. Hope Power surprises us, he tends to keep information tight. I think we need another sound mature player like Duryea.

[Dry Rot]

I have heard that Dunks is definitely off to SA.

He is replacing Maggie Beer in the reboot of the cooking show The Chef and the Cook in his spare time.

[MrMahatma]

Please Dunks just shut up until you've gone.

Did he actually say that to a reporter or is that a second hand quote? I’d be surprised if it’s a direct quote from a direct question about his playing future.

[Grantysghost]

Did he actually say that to a reporter or is that a second hand quote? I’d be surprised if it’s a direct quote from a direct question about his playing future.

I'm going with it never the less as it made me feel better to be mad at him.

[jeemak]

He was good off HB pre-2018, but as soon as teams put physical pressure on him his form waned.

He came 7th in the Sutton in 2018 and 4th in 2019.

Too much is made of the few games in which he was tagged without support from his team mates.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I have literally had a gut full of brand 'dunks'. just piss off. Anyone would think he was like Peter Hudson getting a helicopter back to play for Hawthorn. Like he's some once in a generation freak talent. (and Hudson was). Just so disruptive and disrespectful to the fabric of the team. Top 10 pick for him is good enough to lance the boil. I sense narcissism circling. Yes he has had a great year and is often the grunt and commitment we need but is he just a highly motivated mercenary? Is he really only thinking about his own brand and career and profile? I think he possibly is.

[FrediKanoute]

Please Dunks just shut up until you've gone.

I agree. Just go. Stop making this a circus. Its not all about you, its about the team.....you now that bunch of guys you run around with.

[whythelongface]

Yep agree with all of the above. Just let us know and stop stringing the supporters along. Yes you will be missed as a player but we will be duly compensated with a top 10 pick that forms part our three peat premiership between 2024 to 2026.

[kruder]

Would we expect the new broadcast deal to impact the salary cap at all? It interesting when it comes to a potential long ended deal like Dunkley is rumoured to be after.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I have literally had a gut full of brand 'dunks'. just piss off. Anyone would think he was like Peter Hudson getting a helicopter back to play for Hawthorn. Like he's some once in a generation freak talent. (and Hudson was). Just so disruptive and disrespectful to the fabric of the team. Top 10 pick for him is good enough to lance the boil. I sense narcissism circling. Yes he has had a great year and is often the grunt and commitment we need but is he just a highly motivated mercenary? Is he really only thinking about his own brand and career and profile? I think he possibly is.

Well articulated.

I wonder if his non-commitment has bothered any of the players. Ordinarily I think players are understanding of these situations, but given this is the second time and it's really dragged out into a circus, it might have ticked off a few.

I think Dunks likely has an inflated opinion of himself and probably enjoys the attention around it. The longer it goes, despite his absolute quality on field, I almost want him to go.

[Grantysghost]

This is the Dunkley door stop

https://twitter.com/7NewsAdelaide/status/1567081538684321794?t=k9Ez8RLbrQdgi8PfinLK-Q&s=19


If feels more likely watching that he's going. Feels very similar to the comments he made end of 2020.

[bornadog]

This is the Dunkley door stop

https://twitter.com/7NewsAdelaide/status/1567081538684321794?t=k9Ez8RLbrQdgi8PfinLK-Q&s=19


If feels more likely watching that he's going. Feels very similar to the comments he made end of 2020.

His GF may not get a contract next year with Thunderbirds - that would be funny

Also heard he had his player review today.

[Grantysghost]

His GF may not get a contract next year with Thunderbirds - that would be funny

Also heard he had his player review today.

I wonder if Trengove had any thing to do with PA recommendations I believe they were close and JT is pretty sour on us and fond of them.

[GVGjr]

I wonder if Trengove had any thing to do with PA recommendations I believe they were close and JT is pretty sour on us and fond of them.

Hard to speculate on outside influences but Dunks appears to be genuinely torn on his decision to stay or go.
His best mates are at the club, his partner is in SA and he will either deal with a long distance relationship with his partner by sticking with us or join her over there. Not an easy decision.

He's probably got until the end of the week to confirm his intentions and at least we can be happy that the club has done it's best to keep him here.

[Bulldog4life]

His GF may not get a contract next year with Thunderbirds - that would be funny

Also heard he had his player review today.

Exactly. The net ballers move all over the shop. She'll probably end up playing for the Vixens in Melbourne. Hilarious.

[G-Mo77]

This is the Dunkley door stop

https://twitter.com/7NewsAdelaide/status/1567081538684321794?t=k9Ez8RLbrQdgi8PfinLK-Q&s=19


If feels more likely watching that he's going. Feels very similar to the comments he made end of 2020.

He's gone, he would have signed by now, didn't want to be here in 2020 either, in hindsight maybe we should have sent him to the scum. All I can say at least he turned up to work for the last 2 years and and not mailed it in each week. I'm not upset, I'm actually looking forward to him going, I'm sick of this side show.

[Vred]

+1 to sick of the Dunkley circus, his had his review, now put up and sign or make your intentions known, this stringing-it-out crap is getting old.

[MrMahatma]

He said “in the next couple of days” so I presume it’ll all be resolved this week. That’s fine isn’t it? A week after the last match we play in a season?

I mean, I agree he looks gone but is it really a circus? We played a match 4 days ago.

[mjp]

He said “in the next couple of days” so I presume it’ll all be resolved this week. That’s fine isn’t it? A week after the last match we play in a season?

I mean, I agree he looks gone but is it really a circus? We played a match 4 days ago.

I'm 100% with this.

As for his team-mates - they will be 100% on board with him trying to get the best deal he can.

[GVGjr]

I'm 100% with this.

As for his team-mates - they will be 100% on board with him trying to get the best deal he can.

Players just aren't as invested as the supporters are if their team mates stay or go during these contract negotiations.
I'm sure most would prefer Dunkley stays but they won't carry a grudge if he leaves.

[EasternWest]

I'm sure most would prefer Dunkley stays but they won't carry a grudge if he leaves.

That's reserved for this board :).

[GVGjr]

He said “in the next couple of days” so I presume it’ll all be resolved this week. That’s fine isn’t it? A week after the last match we play in a season?

I mean, I agree he looks gone but is it really a circus? We played a match 4 days ago.

If he confirms his intentions by the end of the week I think that is reasonable. On face value it looks like he is going through the motions before announcing his departure. He was never going to announce his decision 2 or 3 weeks before the finals but his mad Monday and his end of season review are done so after a visit to SA he will have a day or two to consider things.

[G-Mo77]

He said “in the next couple of days” so I presume it’ll all be resolved this week. That’s fine isn’t it? A week after the last match we play in a season?

I mean, I agree he looks gone but is it really a circus? We played a match 4 days ago.

In terms of this season no but he did the same bullshit in 2020 and created all this. There has been speculation ever since which he and his manager/family created. It is a circus. I can't wait to see the back of him.

[Topdog]

The AFL hasnt matured enough yet for a player to announce they are going to another club mid season yet.

I kinda get the circus comments but it isnt really Dunks' fault.

[G-Mo77]

The AFL hasnt matured enough yet for a player to announce they are going to another club mid season yet.

I kinda get the circus comments but it isnt really Dunks' fault.

You'd need the AFL to introduce mid season trading which I want no part of. I follow the NBA and as soon as a player doesn't get their way they put their bottom lip out and request a trade. It's starting to creep into our game which I find concerning.

[Bullies]

The AFL hasnt matured enough yet for a player to announce they are going to another club mid season yet.

I kinda get the circus comments but it isnt really Dunks' fault. He is the one who has been shopping himself around over the past couple of years. And what for an extra $50k per year which is not much when you are talking $600 - $700k salaries per year. If the coin means that much then go for it.

[chef]

He said “in the next couple of days” so I presume it’ll all be resolved this week. That’s fine isn’t it? A week after the last match we play in a season?

I mean, I agree he looks gone but is it really a circus? We played a match 4 days ago.

Agree. Hopefully we can respect his decision either way and not sink the boots in if he chooses to leave.

[Grantysghost]

Hard to speculate on outside influences but Dunks appears to be genuinely torn on his decision to stay or go.
His best mates are at the club, his partner is in SA and he will either deal with a long distance relationship with his partner by sticking with us or join her over there. Not an easy decision.

He's probably got until the end of the week to confirm his intentions and at least we can be happy that the club has done it's best to keep him here.

It's not hard to speculate GVG its easy. Also fun.

I've noticed none of JTs posts have included his better half since he left Barooga.

Not speculating, noticing ;)

[Grantysghost]

Agree. Hopefully we can respect his decision either way and not sink the boots in if he chooses to leave.

As long as we are adequately compensated. If he walks to the PSD then it will be hard to respect that.

I agree with the sentiment it's his right to choose and get the best deal for himself.

Hard not to comment when door stopped except you can say I'll talk about it after I've made a decision.

[Topdog]

You'd need the AFL to introduce mid season trading which I want no part of. I follow the NBA and as soon as a player doesn't get their way they put their bottom lip out and request a trade. It's starting to creep into our game which I find concerning.

No they wouldnt need to do that. Just have players sign contracts with new clubs whenever they like,
Rugby League does it and from the outside looking in it seems to work OK.

[Grantysghost]

I'm 100% with this.

As for his team-mates - they will be 100% on board with him trying to get the best deal he can.

What about his new team-mates if he's getting more cash then them :)

[Topdog]

What about his new team-mates if he's getting more cash then them :)

didnt seem to impact Treloar who seems very popular.

[Sedat]

I will be dirty if he leaves but I respect 100% that he has given his absolute all while wearing our jumper., particularly in the last 2 years after his trade request.

He is a high quality footballer whose game style suits the intensity of finals football. I really hope he stays.

[GVGjr]

As long as we are adequately compensated. If he walks to the PSD then it will be hard to respect that.

I agree with the sentiment it's his right to choose and get the best deal for himself.

Hard not to comment when door stopped except you can say I'll talk about it after I've made a decision.

This is where a good person and a good player manager would insist that the club that chases him hard needs to back it up with a reasonable trade to compensate the club that helped make him into a quality player.
It's reported that Dunkley's been very engaged at the club and his comments yesterday were appreciative of what the Dogs have done for him over the last 7 years so lets hope if he does decide on Port that both he and his manager make it clear that a good deal needs to be struck.

[Mantis]

I will be dirty if he leaves but I respect 100% that he has given his absolute all while wearing our jumper., particularly in the last 2 years after his trade request.

He is a high quality footballer whose game style suits the intensity of finals football. I really hope he stays.

And yet his 2021 final series was underwhelming... maybe it was the role he was playing, but he didn't really make an impact in any game and was pretty awful in the GF.

He was good the other night, but the scrappy conditions suited him more than any other player in our team.

[Sedat]

And yet his 2021 final series was underwhelming... maybe it was the role he was playing, but he didn't really make an impact in any game and was pretty awful in the GF.

He was good the other night, but the scrappy conditions suited him more than any other player in our team.
I'm not as bullish about our midfield depth as others on here. Libba has been a jet but could fall off a cliff, Macrae is a fantastic accumulator but doesn't always hurt with his possessions, Bont is amazing but has been banged up and needs more support, Treloar has lost a yard which takes away from one of his breakaway speed assets, Smith is an inside/outside beast but his disposal is not always reliable. Our depth has questions marks - McLean (injury prone), Garcia (unproven and also injury-prone) and West (not yet proven at this level). The rest are not at the level (McComb, etc..)

Given a clear role as our inside mid/contest winner, Dunks could easily become our leader taking over the mantle from Libba, and I would back him in to embrace the added responsibity of being 'the man'. It would give Bont and Macrae especially the support they desperately need. If we lose Dunks, I worry that Bont will get bashed up even more like Cripps was at Carlton before he got the additional midfield support this year.

[The Doctor]

Back to list Management.

A couple of issues with the list that I'd like to raise.

1. Oversupply of smalls

By my count we have 17 players on the list that I would classify as a small (under 6ft in the old). Which is just shy of 40% of the overall list of 44. That is a lot.

The only certain starting 18 among them at the end of 2022 were Libba, Weightman, Treloar & Daniel.

The declining forces include; Hunter, JJ, Duryea

Fringe/Reserve players are; West, McLean, Butler, Vandermeer, McComb, Scott, McNeil, Jones, Smith, Garcia.

The group clearly lacks diversity. Too many hybrid midfielders. Not enough specialisation. Weightman is the only genuine small forward. Duryea the only specialist small defender etc. The hybrid midfielders are often shoe-horned into these positions but the evidence is clear. They are not good enough in these roles. Who would disagree that we could drop a couple of hybrids and replace them with specialist smalls? Or, going deeper, drop another couple of hybrids and replace them with a ruck or key defender?

None of this takes into account such things as speed, endurance, foot skills, ball handling, grunt, tackling etc which the squad as a whole needs to be better at.


2. Experienced & Middle Agers Not in Best 18

We have a large group of players who are not certain best 18 players despite being very experienced or in their peak years. Players who should or could be in their peak years but for some reason are not;

Wallis, Hunter, Crozier, Cordy, Shache, Duryea, McLean, O’brien, Vandermeer, McComb, Scott, Hannan, Williams, R.Smith, Johannisen, Keath.

We could probably add Butler, Parker,

Even Gardner wasn't selected early in the season and was dropped for the GF.

It's a high number. If we are having a footy dept review I'd like to know if the reviewers would look at these list anomalies & raise them as issues and what has caused them.

By my way of thinking if you appear on both lists your position on the list should be in the spotlight. Earlier in this thread I posted about Veterans. If you are on all 3 you probably done unless there is a compelling reason. For example, injury prone Duryea probably stays on the list as he doesn't really have an understudy on the list. This further highlights the problems with the smalls I alluded to in point 1.

[Grantysghost]

And yet his 2021 final series was underwhelming... maybe it was the role he was playing, but he didn't really make an impact in any game and was pretty awful in the GF.

He was good the other night, but the scrappy conditions suited him more than any other player in our team.

He was coming off that pretty nasty shoulder, not sure he got back to his 2021 pre-injury best last year.

[Axe Man]

I recall someone linking us to Blues small forward Josh Honey on here - well we can cross him off as he has re-signed with Carlton for another year.

[Bulldog4life]

It comes as the Herald Sun reported fringe key-position Dog Josh Schache was “desperate” to play on at another club if the Bulldogs delisted him in the coming weeks.

Schache, who was taken by Brisbane with Pick 2 in the 2015 draft before being traded to the Western Bulldogs two years later, has managed just 18 AFL games from his past three seasons.

The 25-year-old has played primarily as a forward in Luke Beveridge’s team when given the opportunity, but has also pinch-hit in the ruck and had stints as a key defender.

But with Rory Lobb set to join the Dogs, as well as the emergence of key-position players Sam Darcy and Jamarra Ugle-Hagan in recent weeks alongside Aaron Naughton and Tim English, Schache could be forced out.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/department-of-trade/afl-trade-news-rumours-whispers-2022-josh-dunkley-port-adelaide-contract-girlfriend-josh-schache-future-kyle-hartigan-st-kilda/news-story/689326607b1733e70cbadc4f00c8899c

[bornadog]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/department-of-trade/afl-trade-news-rumours-whispers-2022-josh-dunkley-port-adelaide-contract-girlfriend-josh-schache-future-kyle-hartigan-st-kilda/news-story/689326607b1733e70cbadc4f00c8899c

In that article, Dunkley says:


Dunkley insisted his call wouldn’t be financially driven, but said the potential of living closer to Dwan was a significant factor.


“They (the Bulldogs) have given a lot to me over the past seven years and I’ve loved every minute of it,” Dunkley told reporters.


“It’s more just trying to think about my future and my life and things like that, so a few big decisions to make over the next few days.


“Family’s always been important to me and Tippah’s obviously living in Adelaide, so we’ll have to weigh up those decisions over the next few days, as I mentioned.”

I call Bullshit

[G-Mo77]

No they wouldnt need to do that. Just have players sign contracts with new clubs whenever they like,
Rugby League does it and from the outside looking in it seems to work OK.

I don't follow many sports mate. LOL

[The Underdog]

Club have offered Zaine a 2 year contract according to AFL.com. Must be impressed with his Mad Monday work.

[GVGjr]

Club have offered Zaine a 2 year contract according to AFL.com. Must be impressed with his Mad Monday work.

It sort of makes sense to keep him as a depth player but assuming we land Jones having Keath, Gardner, Cordy, O'Brien, Khamis and Darcy available as tall defenders probably nixes any thoughts of Naughton playing back.
It probably also means Schache won't get an offer.

I doubt it would be a substantial deal offered to Cordy but it's not likely to be that much interest in him from other clubs either.

[G-Mo77]

I agree keeping him for depth is fine but would we be better off scouting state leagues to find a mature aged depth player?

[GVGjr]

I agree keeping him for depth is fine but would we be better off scouting state leagues to find a mature aged depth player?

Last year there were a couple kicking around coming off good state league performances. The ones grabbing the most headlines were Sam Skinner and Charlie Dean and both suffered with injury challenges. I'm sure there are some out there this year but to me I'd rather keep what I know for depth (I'm not convinced we need Cordy) for the short term and then draft in some good young talent for the future.

[Mantis]

It sort of makes sense to keep him as a depth player but assuming we land Jones having Keath, Gardner, Cordy, O'Brien, Khamis and Darcy available as tall defenders probably nixes any thoughts of Naughton playing back.
It probably also means Schache won't get an offer.

I doubt it would be a substantial deal offered to Cordy but it's not likely to be that much interest in him from other clubs either.

So why should there be interest from us?

He clearly isn't a capable defender against forwards of any ability and if we keep him for depth we will use him & he will let us down.

Time to clear the decks of players who can't take us forward.

[azabob]

So why should there be interest from us?

He clearly isn't a capable defender against forwards of any ability and if we keep him for depth we will use him & he will let us down.

Time to clear the decks of players who can't take us forward.

This a thousand times.

[GVGjr]

So why should there be interest from us?

He clearly isn't a capable defender against forwards of any ability and if we keep him for depth we will use him & he will let us down.

Time to clear the decks of players who can't take us forward.

I wouldn't be keeping him on and letting a vastly better talent in Schache leave but if we have made the offer there isn't much that can be done. I'd like to know the reasons for the decision.

[Mofra]

It sort of makes sense to keep him as a depth player but assuming we land Jones having Keath, Gardner, Cordy, O'Brien, Khamis and Darcy available as tall defenders probably nixes any thoughts of Naughton playing back.
It probably also means Schache won't get an offer.

I doubt it would be a substantial deal offered to Cordy but it's not likely to be that much interest in him from other clubs either.
Reports yesterday suggested Schache hasn't got an offer yet.
I suspect he goes somewhere for a token pick trade.

[GVGjr]

Reports yesterday suggested Schache hasn't got an offer yet.
I suspect he goes somewhere for a token pick trade.

I guess it's the challenge laconic types face. He has a lot more talent than Cordy but Cordy's more gritty approach is more appealing to Bevo and Power.

[Mantis]

I wouldn't be keeping him on and letting a vastly better talent in Schache leave but if we have made the offer there isn't much that can be done. I'd like to know the reasons for the decision.

Bevo clearly rates him given the opportunities he's been given ahead of more naturally gifted players... sure he tries, but is extremely limited from a physical standpoint.

This is the list mgt. decision I'm watching most closely to determine my level of support going forward.

[Bulldog4life]

Club have offered Zaine a 2 year contract according to AFL.com. Must be impressed with his Mad Monday work.

He was BOG there without a doubt.

[bornadog]

Bevo clearly rates him given the opportunities he's been given ahead of more naturally gifted players... sure he tries, but is extremely limited from a physical standpoint.

This is the list mgt. decision I'm watching most closely to determine my level of support going forward.
one decision will stop your support?

[EasternWest]

He was BOG there without a doubt.

Breakfast On Ground? Certainly looked that way.

[Mantis]

one decision will stop your support?

It's a cumulative affect... in the Bevo era we have been extremely reluctant to turn over the list with any sense of ruthlessness and it leaves us in a position where we're a middling team with an unbalanced list.

I get Bevo forms strong relationships with players, but from where I sit he refuses to move on players when he should and I'm extremely frustrated by that.... but I get where I sit on the pecking order.

[Grantysghost]

Lloyd Meek?

Is he a Nank type we could use? Appears he might be on the way out of Freo.

Genuine question, I've seen very little and I know some have mentioned his name here previously.

[Bulldog4life]

Breakfast On Ground? Certainly looked that way.

Yes I should have written Best on GROUND.

[Grantysghost]

Yes I should have written Best on GROUND.

Barfed on ground.

[azabob]

Lloyd Meek?

Is he a Nank type we could use? Appears he might be on the way out of Freo.

Genuine question, I've seen very little and I know some have mentioned his name here previously.

GG, Nank is a number 1 ruck. Meek he is also a number one ruck.

He should be on our radar but is not as we have put our eggs in the English basket.

[Grantysghost]

GG, Nank is a number 1 ruck. Meek he is also a number one ruck.

He should be on our radar but is not as we have put our eggs in the English basket.

Serenity NOW!

[Bulldog Joe]

It sort of makes sense to keep him as a depth player but assuming we land Jones having Keath, Gardner, Cordy, O'Brien, Khamis and Darcy available as tall defenders probably nixes any thoughts of Naughton playing back.
It probably also means Schache won't get an offer.

I doubt it would be a substantial deal offered to Cordy but it's not likely to be that much interest in him from other clubs either.

Surely any offer to Zaine is simply base wage plus match payments.

I would prefer we were making at least that offer to Schache ahead of Zaine.

However, since Bevo is so reluctant to play Schache it would be a waste of resources to keep him on the list.

[mjp]

However, since Bevo is so reluctant to play Schache it would be a waste of resources to keep him on the list.

100%.

Shouldn't be offered a contract.

[MrMahatma]

It's a cumulative affect... in the Bevo era we have been extremely reluctant to turn over the list with any sense of ruthlessness and it leaves us in a position where we're a middling team with an unbalanced list.

I get Bevo forms strong relationships with players, but from where I sit he refuses to move on players when he should and I'm extremely frustrated by that.... but I get where I sit on the pecking order.

So is Sam Power the list manager, or just manages the salary cap to keep the guys Bevo tells him to?

[GVGjr]

So is Sam Power the list manager, or just manages the salary cap to keep the guys Bevo tells him to?

I think Bevo has a fair bit of sway on who stays or goes and premiership coach or not I'm not convinced that is necessarily a good thing. Power would know when to dig in. I mentioned a couple of weeks back I listened to a podcast where Simon Dalrymple shared that one of his reasons for leaving the Dogs was because of being over ruled on a recruiting decision so it's safe to assume that Bevo got his way on that.

A real juggling act and there will be times that strong wills clash.

The coaches talking too him and letting him know what to work on is a critical part in keeping players.

[Danjul]

I think Bevo has a fair bit of sway on who stays or goes and premiership coach or not I'm not convinced that is necessarily a good thing. Power would know when to dig in. I mentioned a couple of weeks back I listened to a podcast where Simon Dalrymple shared that one of his reasons for leaving the Dogs was because of being over ruled on a recruiting decision so it's safe to assume that Bevo got his way on that.

A real juggling act and there will be times that strong wills clash.

The coaches talking too him and letting him know what to work on is a critical part in keeping players.
Who was responsible for the group that played in 2015 and 2016. As a supporter they were the players that I had the most faith in.

And some of them seem to be holding the current group together.

[Vred]

I think Bevo has a fair bit of sway on who stays or goes and premiership coach or not I'm not convinced that is necessarily a good thing. Power would know when to dig in. I mentioned a couple of weeks back I listened to a podcast where Simon Dalrymple shared that one of his reasons for leaving the Dogs was because of being over ruled on a recruiting decision so it's safe to assume that Bevo got his way on that.

A real juggling act and there will be times that strong wills clash.

The coaches talking too him and letting him know what to work on is a critical part in keeping players.

That recruitment was Billy Gowers, Bevo wanted him, Simon didn't, that was the straw that broke the camels back for Dal' and the reason he left.

[bornadog]

It's a cumulative affect... in the Bevo era we have been extremely reluctant to turn over the list with any sense of ruthlessness and it leaves us in a position where we're a middling team with an unbalanced list.

I get Bevo forms strong relationships with players, but from where I sit he refuses to move on players when he should and I'm extremely frustrated by that.... but I get where I sit on the pecking order.

List of Delistings retirements under Bevo



2015 x 8 players
2016 x 7 players
2017 x 9 players


Ayce Cordy (del)
Jed Adcock (ret)
Matthew Boyd (ret)


Sam Darley (del)
Luke Goetz (del)
Travis Cloke (ret)


Matthew Fuller (del)
Joel Hamling (trd)
Stewart Crameri (del)


Brett Goodes (del)
Nathan Hrovat (trd)
Declan Hamilton (del)


Jarrad Grant (del)
Josh Prudden (del)
Robert Murphy (ret)


Jordan Kelly (del)
Koby Stevens (trd)
Josh Prudden (del)


Daniel Pearce (del)
Will Minson (del)
Roarke Smith (del)


Michael Talia (trd)

Jake Stringer (trd)


2018 x 10
2019 x 5
Tristan Tweedie (del)


Marcus Adams (trd)
Tom Boyd (ret)
2020 x 12


Shane Biggs (ret)
Dale Morris (ret)
Ben Cavarra (del)*


Tom Campbell (del)
Liam Picken (ret)
Tory Dickson (ret)


Kieran Collins (del)
Fletcher Roberts (del)
Billy Gowers (del)


Luke Dahlhaus (FA)
Lukas Webb (del)
Fergus Greene (del)


Mitch Honeychurch (del)

Will Hayes (del)*


Nathan Mullenger-McHugh (del)

Sam Lloyd (ret)


Jack Redpath (ret)

Brad Lynch (del)


Jordan Roughead (trd)

Callum Porter (del)


Clay Smith (ret)

Roarke Smith (del)*




Matt Suckling (del)




Jackson Trengove (del)


2021 x 6

Lachie Young (trd)


Ben Cavarra (del)




Will Hayes (del)




Lin Jong (ret)




Patrick Lipinski (trd)




Easton Wood (ret)




Lewis Young (trd)





That is a huge turnover of players

[Grantysghost]

That recruitment was Billy Gowers, Bevo wanted him, Simon didn't, that was the straw that broke the camels back for Dal' and the reason he left.

Leading goal kicker Billy Gowers! Bevo 1 Simon 0

[bornadog]

That recruitment was Billy Gowers, Bevo wanted him, Simon didn't, that was the straw that broke the camels back for Dal' and the reason he left.

That is what I call sooking

[Mantis]

That is a huge turnover of players

Did you do a deep dive into the details or just throw me the data?

Some double ups and lots of rookie listed players in there, but my count its only about 12-14 players delisted (not retired) in the last 5 years which isn't enough.

[GVGjr]

Who was responsible for the group that played in 2015 and 2016. As a supporter they were the players that I had the most faith in.

And some of them seem to be holding the current group together.

Dal and McCartney.

[GVGjr]

That recruitment was Billy Gowers, Bevo wanted him, Simon didn't, that was the straw that broke the camels back for Dal' and the reason he left.

I think there was one more as well that tipped Dal over but Gowers was apparently a Bevo call.

[bornadog]

Did you do a deep dive into the details or just throw me the data?

Some double ups and lots of rookie listed players in there, but my count its only about 12-14 players delisted (not retired) in the last 5 years which isn't enough.

Source is AFL site, and you have to include rookies.

It is not as easy as you point out. You have to have the draft picks to replace those that have both retired and delisted. As you know the last two years it has been difficult due to using up points. Before that in 2020, 10 players were delisted, one traded one retired.

In 2017/2018 we lost a lot of experience and had to replace players and so ended up fielding the youngest team in the AFL every week.

I am not saying it is perfect, and maybe some players on the list too long, but you have to look at the reasons behind the decisions.

Who should we have cut earlier?

[Mantis]

Source is AFL site, and you have to include rookies.

It is not as easy as you point out. You have to have the draft picks to replace those that have both retired and delisted. As you know the last two years it has been difficult due to using up points. Before that in 2020, 10 players were delisted, one traded one retired.

In 2017/2018 we lost a lot of experience and had to replace players and so ended up fielding the youngest team in the AFL every week.

I am not saying it is perfect, and maybe some players on the list too long, but you have to look at the reasons behind the decisions.

Who should we have cut earlier?

Of course you include rookies, but when you're saying our numbers look great because we've delisted the likes of Luke Goetz and Tristian Tweedie, well I think the message gets lost.

Where would you like me to start with regard to who we've kept for too long??... it's a long list! An easy one is Hayes & Cavarra who were re-rookied when it was obvious that they weren't up to it or wouldn't be used, especially when our list was filled with similar types.

Anyway I watch on with keen interest to how the list is re-shaped before season 2023.

[bornadog]

Of course you include rookies, but when you're saying our numbers look great because we've delisted the likes of Luke Goetz and Tristian Tweedie, well I think the message gets lost.

Where would you like me to start with regard to who we've kept for too long??... it's a long list! An easy one is Hayes & Cavarra who were re-rookied when it was obvious that they weren't up to it or wouldn't be used, especially when our list was filled with similar types.

Anyway I watch on with keen interest to how the list is re-shaped before season 2023.

I didn't say the numbers look great, I said there has been a huge turnover, but not perfect, and difficult to change when you don't have the low draft picks.

Perhaps we should have given up Dunkley in 2020 or someone similar and used those picks to get better players in to fill needs.

I personally don't like picking up the Cavarra's, Hayes, McComb's and Hannan's all ex Footscray players, but I can see why they were with the lack of draft picks.

[DOG GOD]

List of Delistings retirements under Bevo



2015 x 8 players
2016 x 7 players
2017 x 9 players


Ayce Cordy (del)
Jed Adcock (ret)
Matthew Boyd (ret)


Sam Darley (del)
Luke Goetz (del)
Travis Cloke (ret)


Matthew Fuller (del)
Joel Hamling (trd)
Stewart Crameri (del)


Brett Goodes (del)
Nathan Hrovat (trd)
Declan Hamilton (del)


Jarrad Grant (del)
Josh Prudden (del)
Robert Murphy (ret)


Jordan Kelly (del)
Koby Stevens (trd)
Josh Prudden (del)


Daniel Pearce (del)
Will Minson (del)
Roarke Smith (del)


Michael Talia (trd)

Jake Stringer (trd)


2018 x 10
2019 x 5
Tristan Tweedie (del)


Marcus Adams (trd)
Tom Boyd (ret)
2020 x 12


Shane Biggs (ret)
Dale Morris (ret)
Ben Cavarra (del)*


Tom Campbell (del)
Liam Picken (ret)
Tory Dickson (ret)


Kieran Collins (del)
Fletcher Roberts (del)
Billy Gowers (del)


Luke Dahlhaus (FA)
Lukas Webb (del)
Fergus Greene (del)


Mitch Honeychurch (del)

Will Hayes (del)*


Nathan Mullenger-McHugh (del)

Sam Lloyd (ret)


Jack Redpath (ret)

Brad Lynch (del)


Jordan Roughead (trd)

Callum Porter (del)


Clay Smith (ret)

Roarke Smith (del)*




Matt Suckling (del)




Jackson Trengove (del)


2021 x 6

Lachie Young (trd)


Ben Cavarra (del)




Will Hayes (del)




Lin Jong (ret)




Patrick Lipinski (trd)




Easton Wood (ret)




Lewis Young (trd)





That is a huge turnover of players


Geez some average names amongst that lot.

[Bulldog Joe]

Geez some average names amongst that lot.

Don't the average players belong on the delisted/trade page.

The problem is how long it took some to find it and that some had to find it multiple times before actually moving on.

[mjp]

I have to admit that I am frustrated by the SELECTION of players who don't seem to have AFL attributes (to me this list includes Porter, Hayes, Honeychurch) etc BUT I am equally frustrated by the calls to 'quickly delist them'.

If you select a player I think the burden is on the club to prove the recruiter RIGHT, not dismiss them as 'not up to it'. We want list turnover but when Young and Lipinski - who weren't getting games - were traded as a supporter group we were generally anti those players being traded...

I don't know what I am saying here really but I do think we judge the low-end draft picks and rookie selections FAR too harshly...that's why they were at the end of the draft/undrafted...they are going to have deficiencies and are going to take time. The only way they can improve is to actually play. The denigration of Gardner in previous seasons and McComb this year has not been good...they are trying their best and it isn't THEIR fault...everyone will say they aren't criticising the player, rather the selection etc but it is in essence the same thing.

At the same time we give some players a LOT of rope - often far beyond what their actual performances warrant. I often think you are better off being the player who has minimal involvements but does 'something' nice vs the one who consistently puts themselves in the line of fire but makes some errors in the eyes of most supporters..To them I would ask the following question: "Isn't not getting in position to get the ball an error as well?"

As fans we really do penalise mistakes of action FAR more seriously than mistakes of INACTION...most coaches will be the reverse as those errors of inaction are usually directly related to poor game understanding or poor effort...and lead directly to breakdowns in attacking chains and defensive hand-overs...

To be fair to Hayes who I listed as a player without clear AFL attributes, the kid can run and has a clearly defined strength - match day work rate...is that enough? Well, probably not but if you are coaching I can certainly see why you might want to find out exactly WHAT that might turn into?

[bornadog]

I have to admit that I am frustrated by the SELECTION of players who don't seem to have AFL attributes (to me this list includes Porter, Hayes, Honeychurch) etc BUT I am equally frustrated by the calls to 'quickly delist them'.

If you select a player I think the burden is on the club to prove the recruiter RIGHT, not dismiss them as 'not up to it'. We want list turnover but when Young and Lipinski - who weren't getting games - were traded as a supporter group we were generally anti those players being traded...

I don't know what I am saying here really but I do think we judge the low-end draft picks and rookie selections FAR too harshly...that's why they were at the end of the draft/undrafted...they are going to have deficiencies and are going to take time. The only way they can improve is to actually play. The denigration of Gardner in previous seasons and McComb this year has not been good...they are trying their best and it isn't THEIR fault...everyone will say they aren't criticising the player, rather the selection etc but it is in essence the same thing.

At the same time we give some players a LOT of rope - often far beyond what their actual performances warrant. I often think you are better off being the player who has minimal involvements but does 'something' nice vs the one who consistently puts themselves in the line of fire but makes some errors in the eyes of most supporters..To them I would ask the following question: "Isn't not getting in position to get the ball an error as well?"

As fans we really do penalise mistakes of action FAR more seriously than mistakes of INACTION...most coaches will be the reverse as those errors of inaction are usually directly related to poor game understanding or poor effort...and lead directly to breakdowns in attacking chains and defensive hand-overs...

To be fair to Hayes who I listed as a player without clear AFL attributes, the kid can run and has a clearly defined strength - match day work rate...is that enough? Well, probably not but if you are coaching I can certainly see why you might want to find out exactly WHAT that might turn into?

Great post as usual MJP.

Of course there are many other factors that effect performance of a player - personal issues, playing against men when they were so good against juniors eg Tom Boyd a big strong kid smashing players 17, 18 but then finding it harder against senior players and many other reasons which you know about.

I think List management is such a hard gig especially if your team finishes top 8 as you don't get access to the best.

Us supporters in hindsight are such experts, but that is the fun of it.

[Grantysghost]

Great post MJP. Not every player is going to be "up to it" in supporters eyes. I think these are the guys who need the most support.

My running gag with Pressure Acts is my way of trying to say there are other aspects of a players game that they can be judged by.

My man McNeil for eg. He excited me in a bloody intra club and I've liked him ever since!

It's great to see kids come through who try their guts out to make it.

McComb is another, I certainly have been harsh on him at times (because I liked Lippa and well...), but hes played a handful of games and has earned his spot on a list. That's pretty commendable character traits there.

Gardner I've never understood the hate, and Billy Gowers was basically lynched at some points by supporters.

Another guy who worked his arse off for a second chance and ended up being the clubs leading goal kicker in a season. I reckon that's a rare achievement.

If they've had their fair crack like Billy did and they don't make the cut at the end of the year, fair enough. I like to support them as much as possible whilst they are here.

Maybe give them a couple of years before the knives come out !

[azabob]

If Dunkley is going to the Lions they will struggle to offer draft picks with their father sons coming in.

Obviously the players we'd look at but have no chance of getting are Rayner, Answeth or Starcevich.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-brisbane-lions

If in fact it is Brisbane it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Grantysghost]

If Dunkley is going to the Lions they will struggle to offer draft picks with their father sons coming in.

Obviously the players we'd look at but have no chance of getting are Rayner, Answeth or Starcevich.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-brisbane-lions

If in fact it is Brisbane it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Rayner only chance is he wants to come home. From Caroline Springs/Hillside area. Wasn't a dogs man but don't think that really matters much *cough* Bonnie Toogood.

[GVGjr]

If Dunkley is going to the Lions they will struggle to offer draft picks with their father sons coming in.

Obviously the players we'd look at but have no chance of getting are Rayner, Answeth or Starcevich.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-brisbane-lions

If in fact it is Brisbane it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Dunkley to Brisbane would be problematic for us. Very hard to get much from them perhaps a 1st rounder for next year.

[The Doctor]

Dunkley to Brisbane would be problematic for us. Very hard to get much from them perhaps a 1st rounder for next year.

Future first rounder would seem the likely scenario. Hopefully some extras.

I can see the appeal of this to the Dogs. Next year we have a lot of bottom half of the list players coming out of contract. It is shaping up as a good draft at this early stage according to recruiters. So banking a few picks next year may be valuable.

[Bulldog4life]

Future first rounder would seem the likely scenario. Hopefully some extras.

I can see the appeal of this to the Dogs. Next year we have a lot of bottom half of the list players coming out of contract. It is shaping up as a good draft at this early stage according to recruiters. So banking a few picks next year may be valuable.

Future first rounder might be 14 to 18, who knows. Pick 8 with Port this year is more jucier.

[Mofra]

I wouldn't be keeping him on and letting a vastly better talent in Schache leave but if we have made the offer there isn't much that can be done. I'd like to know the reasons for the decision.
Unpopular take, but Cordy has shown more as a KPD at AFL level than Schache has.

[Mofra]

Future first rounder would seem the likely scenario. Hopefully some extras.

I can see the appeal of this to the Dogs. Next year we have a lot of bottom half of the list players coming out of contract. It is shaping up as a good draft at this early stage according to recruiters. So banking a few picks next year may be valuable.
Jordan Croft might jump into first round calculations though (FS).
IF Dunks chooses Brisbane we have to push hard for picks & a player.

[Mofra]

If Dunkley is going to the Lions they will struggle to offer draft picks with their father sons coming in.

Obviously the players we'd look at but have no chance of getting are Rayner, Answeth or Starcevich.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-brisbane-lions

If in fact it is Brisbane it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I expect we'll ask about Payne (again), get rejected (again), and try for someone like Kai Lohnmann as a natural forward.

I've got a vague hunch Geelong might ask about Dunkley now they have (unexpectedly) missed out on Hopper.

[Mantis]

Unpopular take, but Cordy has shown more as a KPD at AFL level than Schache has.

I don’t think it’s an unpopular take at all… I would think with training and 5+ years of AFL footy playing as a defender (like Cordy has had) Schache would be much better in the role than Cordy, but he’s largely untried and therefore unproven.

[bornadog]

I expect we'll ask about Payne (again), get rejected (again), and try for someone like Kai Lohnmann as a natural forward.

I've got a vague hunch Geelong might ask about Dunkley now they have (unexpectedly) missed out on Hopper.

Dunks will be hanging out for all offers and assessing from there so, Geelong will not be out of the question.

[Bullies]

Dunks will be hanging out for all offers and assessing from there so, Geelong will not be out of the question. What crap then from Dunks that he is torn between going and staying. If he goes to Geelong he aint going to get a better deal than what we have offered. He obviously wants out.

[bornadog]

What crap then from Dunks that he is torn between going and staying. If he goes to Geelong he aint going to get a better deal than what we have offered. He obviously wants out.

It is crap in my opinion. If he wanted to stay then he would have signed by now.

[Testekill]

I can't help but feel like Brisbane's future first rounder is not very valuable. It's going to end up being probably in that 13-20 range and that's a bad proposition to give to someone that would be strengthening their weakest line on the field. You take a future pick from a team that you're reasonably sure will be on a downward slide.

[GVGjr]

I can't help but feel like Brisbane's future first rounder is not very valuable. It's going to end up being probably in that 13-20 range and that's a bad proposition to give to someone that would be strengthening their weakest line on the field. You take a future pick from a team that you're reasonably sure will be on a downward slide.

I agree, with the father son selections this year will be there focus and losing Dunkley now for future picks doesn't really appeal to me.

If we are looking for some addition currency, as Doc rightfully suggests, for 2023 then it should come with a swap for JJ compensation pick or a Hunter/Crozier trade.

[hujsh]

I agree, with the father son selections this year that will be there focus and losing Dunkley now for future picks doesn't really appeal to me.

If we are looking for some addition currency, as Doc rightfully suggests, for 2023 then it should come with a swap for JJ compensation pick or a Hunter/Crozier trade.

I'm not sure pick 72 will do that much for us unfortunately

[Happy Days]

If we take Brisbane’s future first without more for Dunks then Sam Power should lose his job.

[Grantysghost]

If we take Brisbane’s future first without more for Dunks then Sam Power should lose his job.

Rather let him walk.

[jeemak]

If we take Brisbane’s future first without more for Dunks then Sam Power should lose his job.

It'd be Bevo's fault.

[GVGjr]

It'd be Bevo's fault.

OK, I will bite. Why Bevo?

[hujsh]

It'd be Bevo's fault.

I think I'll blame Ryan Gardner.

I don't know how but I can figure out the details later

[Axe Man]

I think I'll blame Ryan Gardner.

I don't know how but I can figure out the details later

Ryan Gardner being wrongly identified as Josh Dunkley helping poor old Cordy up on Mad Monday will be the straw that breaks the camels back for brand Dunks.

[jeemak]

OK, I will bite. Why Bevo?

It's tongue in cheek, but I sometimes get the impression anything that's great that happens with our list is perceived as being all down to Sam Power and his genius, while anything that's bad that happens is due to Bevo being Bevo.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's tongue in cheek, but I sometimes get the impression anything that's great that happens with our list is perceived as being all down to Sam Power and his genius, while anything that's bad that happens is due to Bevo being Bevo.

Conversely there's a lot on here who try to deflect any criticism of Luke.

Truth is likely in the middle, but at the elite level, the head coach typically gets what he wants. The rest of them (list managers included) are hardly going to overrule them (i.e. Dalrymple and Beveridge scenario, Clarkson and Hawks - and already Norf).

[EasternWest]

Ryan Gardner being wrongly identified as Josh Dunkley helping poor old Cordy up on Mad Monday will be the straw that breaks the camels back for brand Dunks.

What about poor old Gards? He's come so far, yet he's still our equivalent of Ann from Arrested Development.

[Rocco Jones]

What about poor old Gards? He's come so far, yet he's still our equivalent of Ann from Arrested Development.

*Egg.

[EasternWest]

*Egg.

Her?

[hujsh]

Yeah bring Egg to the B&F too

Edit: I made Gardeggner
1135

[Mantis]

If we take Brisbane’s future first without more for Dunks then Sam Power should lose his job.

Based on his previous dealings at the trade table I have absolute confidence Sam won't allow the club to be bent over.

[Mofra]

I'd be looking at Tom Phillips as a DFA/rookie list spot (subject to medical, considering his year this year).
Had a very good 2018 (played in a GF side, 4th for total kick in the competition) and 2019, and a decent 2021. Delisted by Hawks. Can run, elite outside runner so covers ground well.