List Management thread (For 2022)

[EasternWest]

Yeah bring Egg to the B&F too

Edit: I made Gardeggner
1135

This should definitely be your new profile pic.

Eggit: I note it actually is your new profile pic.

I gotta say: him?

[azabob]

I'd be looking at Tom Phillips as a DFA/rookie list spot (subject to medical, considering his year this year).
Had a very good 2018 (played in a GF side, 4th for total kick in the competition) and 2019, and a decent 2021. Delisted by Hawks. Can run, elite outside runner so covers ground well.

You've been a fan for a while; you were keen on him when it became apparent he was on the move from Collingwood.

Why couldn't he get a regular gig at the Hawks? What is holding him back?

[azabob]

This should definitely be your new profile pic.

Eggit: I note it actually is your new profile pic.

I gotta say: him?

Speaking of new profile pics I must say I am seeing a strong resemblance between myself and my new profile pic..

[Grantysghost]

This should definitely be your new profile pic.

Eggit: I note it actually is your new profile pic.

I gotta say: him?

Isn't Andrew Wills the flying egg?

[EasternWest]

Speaking of new profile pics I must say I am seeing a strong resemblance between myself and my new profile pic..

Is it the guns? I bet it's the guns

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'd be looking at Tom Phillips as a DFA/rookie list spot (subject to medical, considering his year this year).
Had a very good 2018 (played in a GF side, 4th for total kick in the competition) and 2019, and a decent 2021. Delisted by Hawks. Can run, elite outside runner so covers ground well.

I'd rather keep Hunter - Phillips' hurt factor is poor, he isn't quick or strong overhead and it's debatable if he still has that running power.

[macca]

I'd be looking at Tom Phillips as a DFA/rookie list spot (subject to medical, considering his year this year).
Had a very good 2018 (played in a GF side, 4th for total kick in the competition) and 2019, and a decent 2021. Delisted by Hawks. Can run, elite outside runner so covers ground well.

What happened to him? He was a serious good player in that GF. His got a tank, looked like he could mark and not bad kick. We really need to find an Ed Langdon type player

Is Blake ACres worth looking at?

[Rocco Jones]

Her?

Love it.

[GVGjr]

What happened to him? He was a serious good player in that GF. His got a tank, looked like he could mark and not bad kick. We really need to find an Ed Langdon type player

Is Blake ACres worth looking at?

Probably but if it's Jones, Lobb and Rowe coming in that probably is close to the extent of what we would do.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Future first rounder might be 14 to 18, who knows. Pick 8 with Port this year is more jucier.

Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

[westbulldog]

Aside from the Dunkley situation if all we do is recruit Jones, Lobb and Rowe and gift further contracts to a host of average only players including Cordy and McComb I look forward to us finishing 10th in 2023.

[josie]

Aside from the Dunkley situation if all we do is recruit Jones, Lobb and Rowe and gift further contracts to a host of average only players including Cordy and McComb I look forward to us finishing 10th in 2023.

Especially if the sub par play significant number of games. I’m waiting to see what magic Power and also our chief recruiter can weave. Plus what coach assistants we bring in. Go Dogs.

[Sedat]

So Melbourne have the best tap ruckman in the game, and rightly or wrongly they are aggressively chasing possibly the 2nd best tap ruckman in the game. They won a flag 12 months ago, not 6 years ago.

Richmond, rightly or wrongly, are aggressively chasing midfield bulls to bolster an area of clear deficiency. They have won 3 flags since we won ours.

I hope we are similarly doing everything possible to aggressively improve our list balance and depth quality while we have a core group of elite talent.

[hujsh]

Aside from the Dunkley situation if all we do is recruit Jones, Lobb and Rowe and gift further contracts to a host of average only players including Cordy and McComb I look forward to us finishing 10th in 2023.

I think it's misguided to think the only way the team can improve is through trading. Yes it's the most immediate way to add talent to the list but we've seen plenty of circumstances where that hasn't helped (Essendon, for a long time Carlton, Hawks post 2016) and plenty of examples where teams have improved despite trading out players or having senior figures retire. I think of Port's campaign after drafting the likes of Rozee and Butters instead of trading like they had been doing (Motlop, Watts etc)

Sometimes the talent is there and there are just other changes that need to happen in the background that are less obvious to us.I'd love to see us bring in an A grade or B+ key defender but we should still be expecting a better standard from this group of players next year even if we don't manage that IMO.

[Bullies]

After watching Lobbe tonight surely we have seen enough of him over the years to see he is no good.

[Grantysghost]

After watching Lobbe tonight surely we have seen enough of him over the years to see he is no good.

Do you Bullies, in the year of our lord 2022 here by proclaim Rory Arthur Grimsby Lobb the fairer to be shizen hausen?

[Hot_Doggies]

Watching tonight the thing we need is SPEED!

All over the ground we need more speed and athleticism.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Do you Bullies, in the year of our lord 2022 here by proclaim Rory Arthur Grimsby Lobb the fairer to be shizen hausen?

We fail to play Sweet and Schache and yet are happy to recruit the likes of Lobb and Liam Jones, who has been playing in a 3rd grade competition in Queensland.Go figure.

[Grantysghost]

We fail to play Sweet and Schache and yet are happy to recruit the likes of Lobb and Liam Jones, who has been playing in a 3rd grade competition in Queensland.Go figure.

If Schache goes and Jones comes in you would have to ask questions.

Lobb I'm warming to

[macca]

If Schache goes and Jones comes in you would have to ask questions.

Lobb I'm warming to

I am not sold on Lobb being answer to our forward or Ruck options. Why can't Schache become that 2nd forward mobile ruck ,just play him in one position instead of 3?

We are clearly missing hard edge and discipline in the backline, which Wood and Dureya provide plenty of

We need a forward line coach who can instruct the mids and forward line to run to spaces and stop bombing in long. IF they cannot get the ball for mark then bring it to ground and make the smalls crumb.

We need to improve our small forwards or get one who is electric like a Cameron/Rioli type player.

I am sick and tired of seeing teams just wait for us to go forward and we predictably long bomb, which they end up goaling on the rebound.

We also need to review the high intensity game and see how we can run out the matches. Its either through lack of fitness, or control the tempo of the game.

Sydney beat Melbourne because they could control the tempo and were smart in lowering their eyes and kicking into space for their forwards to mark.

[jeemak]

I am not sold on Lobb being answer to our forward or Ruck options. Why can't Schache become that 2nd forward mobile ruck ? Can we just play him in one position instead of 3?

We are clearly missing hard edge and discipline in the backline, which Wood and Dureya provide plenty of

We need a forward line coach who can instruct the mids and forward line to run to spaces and stop bombing in long. IF they cannot get the ball for mark then bring it to ground and make the smalls crumb.

We need to improve our small forwards or get one who is electric like a Cameron/Rioli type player.

I am sick and tired of seeing teams just wait for us to go forward and we predictably long bomb, which they end up goaling on the rebound.

We also need to review the high intensity game and see how we can run out the matches. Its either through lack of fitness, or control the tempo of the game.

Sydney beat Melbourne because they could control the tempo and were smart in lowering their eyes and kicking into space for their forwards to mark.

Every team plays a high intensity game, and if they don't they get found out just like Melbourne did at times in the home and away series last year and just like they did in the same and finals this year when the whips were cracking and they didn't play with high enough intensity, or if their structure broke down.

The truth is, you need to play a manic style of game, but you also need structure. You can't have it either way, you need both.

If we have to play a high intensity game it's because we don't have intercept relief, or it's because we don't lock it in our forward line to take pressure off the defencive structure.

I expect our midfield and forward connection will improve drastically this coming season. We have a full preseason to get it right and unlike others I don't believe who we have put into the roles at the death are incompetent and a bit of preparation time will go a long way.

My concern is our defencive structure from forward to back, and the cattle we have on the intercept being able to take some pressure off us. Time will tell if we can recruit/ adapt.

[Go_Dogs]

Watching tonight the thing we need is SPEED!

All over the ground we need more speed and athleticism.

Momentum, taking the game on, keeping the ball moving forward out the stoppage, setting up the ground to hold it in and prevent the fast turnover, lowering the eyes - a lot of simple things that we’ve done well in patches are the things that seemingly win the big games (I’m simplifying of course, but I’m not a footy intellect).

Collingwood have a lot of forwards who just know how to impact the scoreboard. Genuine forwards. It makes a big difference.

[DOG GOD]

Collingwood have a lot of forwards who just know how to impact the scoreboard. Genuine forwards. It makes a big difference. This is the big thing for mine. Genuine fwds. They know how to play, they know where to lead. They know how to create space, and they work for each other. Oh to have an Elliott or Mihocek in our fwd 50. This would makes a huge difference. Actual fwds who know their craft instead of what we have going on.

[whythelongface]

This is the big thing for mine. Genuine fwds. They know how to play, they know where to lead. They know how to create space, and they work for each other. Oh to have an Elliott or Mihocek in our fwd 50. This would makes a huge difference. Actual fwds who know their craft instead of what we have going on.

They are genuinely good at their craft. Same with Hoskin-Elliott.However we are comparing a forward line that has loads of experience and are between 29 and 31 years old including Cox, Elliott, Mihochek and Hoskin-Elliott compared to our forward line that in the final were 19, 20, 21 and 22. I don’t think we should be too harsh on our forward line. There is plenty of upside and with the right coaching they will be top of their game in 2 to 3 years and prove very difficult to handle. If we do add in another genuine forward then we have makings of an extremely good forward line.

[MrMahatma]

They are genuinely good at their craft. Same with Hoskin-Elliott.However we are comparing a forward line that has loads of experience and are between 29 and 31 years old including Cox, Elliott, Mihochek and Hoskin-Elliott compared to our forward line that in the final were 19, 20, 21 and 22. I don’t think we should be too harsh on our forward line. There is plenty of upside and with the right coaching they will be top of their game in 2 to 3 years and prove very difficult to handle. If we do add in another genuine forward then we have makings of an extremely good forward line.

I agree. And they need to play together a lot.

So where would Lobb fit?

[DOG GOD]

They are genuinely good at their craft. Same with Hoskin-Elliott.However we are comparing a forward line that has loads of experience and are between 29 and 31 years old including Cox, Elliott, Mihochek and Hoskin-Elliott compared to our forward line that in the final were 19, 20, 21 and 22. I don’t think we should be too harsh on our forward line. There is plenty of upside and with the right coaching they will be top of their game in 2 to 3 years and prove very difficult to handle. If we do add in another genuine forward then we have makings of an extremely good forward line.

Very true, and the fwd coach needs to be someone who 100% understands what it takes…someone like Josh Kennedy would’ve been ideal.

[bornadog]

Well this is where we stand:

Jason Johannisen: 2022
Josh Dunkley: 2022
Rhylee West: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2019-08-15/west-resigns-for-two-more?fbclid=IwAR10ihTVX91PaUuu1oXgonP5bmJd_YVX8fjHJLMlBf_n9c L5IGBMhGd8HbA)
Alex Keath: 2022
Josh Schache: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/209163/schaches-new-deal)
Louis Butler: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/980010/?fbclid=IwAR3b9E0HiTTGSLfquL6WDzHVGasYKYDwDNYR0mtoPHBFdWxCuW-9PQxOoB0)
Zaine Cordy: 2022 (https://www.afl.com.au/news/663027/tigers-free-agent-set-for-new-deal-premiership-dog-hits-trigger)
Taylor Duryea: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1003352/duryea-locked-in-for-2022?fbclid=IwAR20dBmLo9PH-bWohtMA02Qem7sAyLAqUUYDiIfxV_QHWbKZEVpGU2q3vLQ)
Mitch Wallis: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1025191/wallis-commits-to-the-kennel)
Stefan Martin: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1028726/martin-to-play-on-in-2022)
Charlie Parker: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1034063/2021-afl-rookie-draft-pick-17-charlie-parker) (Rookie)

Could the lot go?

[hujsh]

Well this is where we stand:

Jason Johannisen: 2022
Josh Dunkley: 2022
Rhylee West: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2019-08-15/west-resigns-for-two-more?fbclid=IwAR10ihTVX91PaUuu1oXgonP5bmJd_YVX8fjHJLMlBf_n9c L5IGBMhGd8HbA)
Alex Keath: 2022
Josh Schache: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/209163/schaches-new-deal)
Louis Butler: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/980010/?fbclid=IwAR3b9E0HiTTGSLfquL6WDzHVGasYKYDwDNYR0mtoPHBFdWxCuW-9PQxOoB0)
Zaine Cordy: 2022 (https://www.afl.com.au/news/663027/tigers-free-agent-set-for-new-deal-premiership-dog-hits-trigger)
Taylor Duryea: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1003352/duryea-locked-in-for-2022?fbclid=IwAR20dBmLo9PH-bWohtMA02Qem7sAyLAqUUYDiIfxV_QHWbKZEVpGU2q3vLQ)
Mitch Wallis: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1025191/wallis-commits-to-the-kennel)
Stefan Martin: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1028726/martin-to-play-on-in-2022)
Charlie Parker: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1034063/2021-afl-rookie-draft-pick-17-charlie-parker) (Rookie)

Could the lot go?

I'd like to hold onto West. Could understand allowing the rest to leave without much of a fight for one reason or another (well we should fight for good payment for Dunks but you get what I mean)

[Mofra]

Well this is where we stand:

Jason Johannisen: 2022
Josh Dunkley: 2022
Rhylee West: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2019-08-15/west-resigns-for-two-more?fbclid=IwAR10ihTVX91PaUuu1oXgonP5bmJd_YVX8fjHJLMlBf_n9c L5IGBMhGd8HbA)
Alex Keath: 2022
Josh Schache: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/209163/schaches-new-deal)
Louis Butler: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/980010/?fbclid=IwAR3b9E0HiTTGSLfquL6WDzHVGasYKYDwDNYR0mtoPHBFdWxCuW-9PQxOoB0)
Zaine Cordy: 2022 (https://www.afl.com.au/news/663027/tigers-free-agent-set-for-new-deal-premiership-dog-hits-trigger)
Taylor Duryea: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1003352/duryea-locked-in-for-2022?fbclid=IwAR20dBmLo9PH-bWohtMA02Qem7sAyLAqUUYDiIfxV_QHWbKZEVpGU2q3vLQ)
Mitch Wallis: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1025191/wallis-commits-to-the-kennel)
Stefan Martin: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1028726/martin-to-play-on-in-2022)
Charlie Parker: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1034063/2021-afl-rookie-draft-pick-17-charlie-parker) (Rookie)

Could the lot go?
By rumour, we have a 2 year deal in front of Cordy and Duryea has triggered a 1 year extension.
Feasibly, we could lose all of the rest although I'd expect Parker gets another 1 year rookie deal.

[1eyedog]

Heard Mitch will get a one year deal.

[bornadog]

By rumour, we have a 2 year deal in front of Cordy and Duryea has triggered a 1 year extension.
Feasibly, we could lose all of the rest although I'd expect Parker gets another 1 year rookie deal.

Pretty sure Keath also triggered a one year deal

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Well this is where we stand:

Jason Johannisen: 2022
Josh Dunkley: 2022
Rhylee West: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2019-08-15/west-resigns-for-two-more?fbclid=IwAR10ihTVX91PaUuu1oXgonP5bmJd_YVX8fjHJLMlBf_n9c L5IGBMhGd8HbA)
Alex Keath: 2022
Josh Schache: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/209163/schaches-new-deal)
Louis Butler: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/980010/?fbclid=IwAR3b9E0HiTTGSLfquL6WDzHVGasYKYDwDNYR0mtoPHBFdWxCuW-9PQxOoB0)
Zaine Cordy: 2022 (https://www.afl.com.au/news/663027/tigers-free-agent-set-for-new-deal-premiership-dog-hits-trigger)
Taylor Duryea: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1003352/duryea-locked-in-for-2022?fbclid=IwAR20dBmLo9PH-bWohtMA02Qem7sAyLAqUUYDiIfxV_QHWbKZEVpGU2q3vLQ)
Mitch Wallis: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1025191/wallis-commits-to-the-kennel)
Stefan Martin: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1028726/martin-to-play-on-in-2022)
Charlie Parker: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1034063/2021-afl-rookie-draft-pick-17-charlie-parker) (Rookie)

Could the lot go?

They won't all go, but this highlights part of the list issue. We have quite a bit of culling that needs to be done, which should have been done earlier.

From the above list, Dunkley is a very good player/Duryea a good player and that's about it.

I hope we re-sign Doc, I'd prefer to keep West - the rest can go. However, every side needs senior depth so I suspect Keath/Wallis/Cordy stay.

[GVGjr]

Well this is where we stand:

Jason Johannisen: 2022
Josh Dunkley: 2022
Rhylee West: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2019-08-15/west-resigns-for-two-more?fbclid=IwAR10ihTVX91PaUuu1oXgonP5bmJd_YVX8fjHJLMlBf_n9c L5IGBMhGd8HbA)
Alex Keath: 2022
Josh Schache: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/209163/schaches-new-deal)
Louis Butler: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/980010/?fbclid=IwAR3b9E0HiTTGSLfquL6WDzHVGasYKYDwDNYR0mtoPHBFdWxCuW-9PQxOoB0)
Zaine Cordy: 2022 (https://www.afl.com.au/news/663027/tigers-free-agent-set-for-new-deal-premiership-dog-hits-trigger)
Taylor Duryea: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1003352/duryea-locked-in-for-2022?fbclid=IwAR20dBmLo9PH-bWohtMA02Qem7sAyLAqUUYDiIfxV_QHWbKZEVpGU2q3vLQ)
Mitch Wallis: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1025191/wallis-commits-to-the-kennel)
Stefan Martin: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1028726/martin-to-play-on-in-2022)
Charlie Parker: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1034063/2021-afl-rookie-draft-pick-17-charlie-parker) (Rookie)

Could the lot go?

We could probably add that Crozier could be shopped around as well.

[bornadog]

We could probably add that Crozier could be shopped around as well.

I was looking at the contracts still not signed off.

Yeah Crozier may request a trade, maybe even Hunter. Who else might?

[DOG GOD]

I was looking at the contracts still not signed off.

Yeah Crozier may request a trade, maybe even Hunter. Who else might?

Williams and West maybe ?

[azabob]

They won't all go, but this highlights part of the list issue. We have quite a bit of culling that needs to be done, which should have been done earlier.

.

You think that list is bad.

Don't dare look at 2023...

Josh Bruce: 2023
Hayden Crozier: 2023
Bailey Williams: 2023
Laitham Vandermeer: 2023
Lachlan McNeil: 2023 (Rookie)
Ryan Gardner: 2023
Tom Liberatore: 2023
Cody Weightman: 2023
Anthony Scott: 2023 (Rookie)
Ed Richards: 2023
Tim O'Brien: 2023
Jordon Sweet: 2023 (Rookie)
Roarke Smith: 2023 (Rookie)
Sam Darcy: 2023
Arthur Jones: 2023
Luke Cleary: 2023
Mitch Hannan: 2023
Dominic Bedendo: 2023
Buku Khamis: 2023 (Rookie)
Robbie McComb: 2023 (Rookie)
Cody Raak: 2023 (Rookie)
Toby McLean: 2023

[DOG GOD]

You think that list is bad.

Don't dare look at 2023...

Josh Bruce: 2023
Hayden Crozier: 2023
Bailey Williams: 2023
Laitham Vandermeer: 2023
Lachlan McNeil: 2023 (Rookie)
Ryan Gardner: 2023
Tom Liberatore: 2023
Cody Weightman: 2023
Anthony Scott: 2023 (Rookie)
Ed Richards: 2023
Tim O'Brien: 2023
Jordon Sweet: 2023 (Rookie)
Roarke Smith: 2023 (Rookie)
Sam Darcy: 2023
Arthur Jones: 2023
Luke Cleary: 2023
Mitch Hannan: 2023
Dominic Bedendo: 2023
Buku Khamis: 2023 (Rookie)
Robbie McComb: 2023 (Rookie)
Cody Raak: 2023 (Rookie)
Toby McLean: 2023

Wow…just wow…

[The Bulldogs Bite]

You think that list is bad.

Don't dare look at 2023...

Josh Bruce: 2023 If he has a good year, might get 1 more.
Hayden Crozier: 2023 Gone, if not already.
Bailey Williams: 2023 Good enough to be in the AFL system, be it with us or elsewhere.
Laitham Vandermeer: 2023 Crossroads, even if he is a Bevo favourite.
Lachlan McNeil: 2023 (Rookie) I don't see a future.
Ryan Gardner: 2023 Certain to stay.
Tom Liberatore: 2023 Body withstanding, obviously stays.
Cody Weightman: 2023 Stays.
Anthony Scott: 2023 (Rookie) Good enough to be on a list. Stay.
Ed Richards: 2023 Stay.
Tim O'Brien: 2023 Go, unless he has a good year.
Jordon Sweet: 2023 (Rookie) Go, if not sooner.
Roarke Smith: 2023 (Rookie) 50/50 - I would keep him.
Sam Darcy: 2023 Stay.
Arthur Jones: 2023 Might want to show a bit more.
Luke Cleary: 2023 Stay.
Mitch Hannan: 2023 Go, unless he has a good year.
Dominic Bedendo: 2023 Crossroads. Needs a good year.
Buku Khamis: 2023 (Rookie) Needs to keep improving, but I hope he stays.
Robbie McComb: 2023 (Rookie) Go.
Cody Raak: 2023 (Rookie) Go.
Toby McLean: 2023 Body willing, stay.

That's pretty horrific.

[Dancin' Douggy]

You think that list is bad.

Don't dare look at 2023...

Josh Bruce: 2023
Hayden Crozier: 2023
Bailey Williams: 2023
Laitham Vandermeer: 2023
Lachlan McNeil: 2023 (Rookie)
Ryan Gardner: 2023
Tom Liberatore: 2023
Cody Weightman: 2023
Anthony Scott: 2023 (Rookie)
Ed Richards: 2023
Tim O'Brien: 2023
Jordon Sweet: 2023 (Rookie)
Roarke Smith: 2023 (Rookie)
Sam Darcy: 2023
Arthur Jones: 2023
Luke Cleary: 2023
Mitch Hannan: 2023
Dominic Bedendo: 2023
Buku Khamis: 2023 (Rookie)
Robbie McComb: 2023 (Rookie)
Cody Raak: 2023 (Rookie)
Toby McLean: 2023
Oh My lord.

[mjp]

That's pretty horrific.

Wouldn't most clubs be in the same boat?

If the majority of your contracts are 1, 2 or 3 years, then you are going to have anywhere around 20 players ooc each year.

Weightman is on the list and is a key signature.
Richards is a key name.
Darcy likewise.

Aside from that, the most important name would be Liber who is 30+ or Williams who seemed to be marking time this season....

I'm not sure there should be too much hand wringing??

[hujsh]

Wouldn't most clubs be in the same boat?

If the majority of your contracts are 1, 2 or 3 years, then you are going to have anywhere around 20 players ooc each year.

Weightman is on the list and is a key signature.
Richards is a key name.
Darcy likewise.

Aside from that, the most important name would be Liber who is 30+ or Williams who seemed to be marking time this season....

I'm not sure there should be too much hand wringing??

I think the point is less how many players are OOC and more how many players on that list are probably not AFL standard (due to not being able to turn the list over the last few years and bring in more talent etc)

[FrediKanoute]

ason Johannisen: 2022 - Thanks but time to move on
Josh Dunkley: 2022 - will do what suits him best. WOuld like to keep but up to him
Rhylee West: 2022 - keep - will be a loss especially with Dunks going and an aging Libba
Alex Keath: 2022 - keep - one more year, but prepared to let him go
Josh Schache: 2022 - just hasn't nailed down a spot. Let go
Louis Butler: 2022 - let go
Zaine Cordy: 2022 - keep - even as depth its a position we struggle with
Taylor Duryea: 2022 - keep
Mitch Wallis: 2022 - keep for sentimental and leadership reasons, but would support him going for more game time
Stefan Martin: 2022 - Thanks....time to move into a coaching role
Charlie Parker: 2022 (Rookie) - Let go

[FrediKanoute]

Josh Bruce: 2023 - keep dependent on how he performs in 2023
Hayden Crozier: 2023 - let go if not traded in 2022
Bailey Williams: 2023 - keep, but would be open to offers
Laitham Vandermeer: 2023 - keep (though if he plays another final like the one he played no)
Lachlan McNeil: 2023 (Rookie) - keep
Ryan Gardner: 2023 - keep
Tom Liberatore: 2023 - keep - 1 year deals
Cody Weightman: 2023 - keep
Anthony Scott: 2023 (Rookie) - keep
Ed Richards: 2023 - keep
Tim O'Brien: 2023 - same boat as Bruce and Keath - will have to earn another year
Jordon Sweet: 2023 (Rookie) - if we don't get another ruck then keep
Roarke Smith: 2023 (Rookie) - keep
Sam Darcy: 2023 - keep
Arthur Jones: 2023 - keep
Luke Cleary: 2023 - keep (could replace Williams)
Mitch Hannan: 2023 - let go
Dominic Bedendo: 2023 - keep - but he would want to be pressing for more games in 2023
Buku Khamis: 2023 (Rookie) - keep - I actually think he was really good this year
Robbie McComb: 2023 (Rookie) - not sure what they see in him
Cody Raak: 2023 (Rookie) - let go unless he shows something
Toby McLean: 2023 - keep but again would want a good/strong 2023

[GVGjr]

Wouldn't most clubs be in the same boat?

If the majority of your contracts are 1, 2 or 3 years, then you are going to have anywhere around 20 players ooc each year.

Weightman is on the list and is a key signature.
Richards is a key name.
Darcy likewise.

Aside from that, the most important name would be Liber who is 30+ or Williams who seemed to be marking time this season....

I'm not sure there should be too much hand wringing??

With the majority of contracts being 2 to 3 years you would imagine every year you would suspect that 33% + of the playing list is coming OOC as it just the nature of contracted players.

This list isn't that daunting when you look closely at the names.
The fact that we got so many of our better players signed to decent deals this year indicates we might be tracking OK.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Wouldn't most clubs be in the same boat?

If the majority of your contracts are 1, 2 or 3 years, then you are going to have anywhere around 20 players ooc each year.

Weightman is on the list and is a key signature.
Richards is a key name.
Darcy likewise.

Aside from that, the most important name would be Liber who is 30+ or Williams who seemed to be marking time this season....

I'm not sure there should be too much hand wringing??

It's not the amount of names OOC, the number would be similar most years for most clubs, my horrific comment is more in line with the quality of our list.

I really think we're paying for not cutting deeper a few years ago.

[Swoop]

Am I the only one who feels our list isn't as bad as is being made out?

Yes we underachieved. Yes we have decencies like all clubs but we also have the ability to rebound quickly with the right appointments.

Emotion aside, losing Dunkley allows us to find a better balanced midfield and provides us with currency to address other areas.

The jury is out on both Lobb and Jones but both address needs within our side.

MJP I'd be keen to read your thoughts on Liam Henry. Does he address another need on our list? Is his upside worth pursuing?

[Topdog]

I don't think that 23 list is bad at all.

9 of them are 1st 22

[bornadog]

I don't think that 23 list is bad at all.

9 of them are 1st 22

Also 7 rookies on there

[mjp]

MJP I'd be keen to read your thoughts on Liam Henry. Does he address another need on our list? Is his upside worth pursuing?

I don't think he has any great attributes.

I was surprised he was selected so high in the draft. I have not been surprised at his inability to get a game.

Whenever I see Liam play I feel like I must be missing something but - as an example, a player like Tyrone Thorne who also plays for Peel in the WAFL has more AFL type skills that Henry does...

Have you seen stuff I haven't? I am often wrong!

[jazzadogs]

I don't think he has any great attributes.

I was surprised he was selected so high in the draft. I have not been surprised at his inability to get a game.

Whenever I see Liam play I feel like I must be missing something but - as an example, a player like Tyrone Thorne who also plays for Peel in the WAFL has more AFL type skills that Henry does...

Have you seen stuff I haven't? I am often wrong!

He is definitely a player who sounds more exciting than he is - first round pick, indigenous small forward with silky skills and pace to burn!!! - but the reality is a small skinny quick guy who doesn't get the ball. Even James Rowe has at least shown an ability to kick goals at AFL level.

[Axe Man]

I don't think he has any great attributes.

I was surprised he was selected so high in the draft. I have not been surprised at his inability to get a game.

Whenever I see Liam play I feel like I must be missing something but - as an example, a player like Tyrone Thorne who also plays for Peel in the WAFL has more AFL type skills that Henry does...

Have you seen stuff I haven't? I am often wrong!

Paul Haselby's thoughts on Liam Henry:

‘They can have him’: Savage call on trade-linked Docker who great says ‘doesn’t work hard enough’ (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/fremantle-dockers/afl-news-2022-liam-henry-future-at-fremantle-dockers-paul-hasleby-comments-says-rival-clubs-can-have-him-trade-news-rumours-whispers-latest/news-story/ab982223c5353cba3375a7a19c35dbef)

Fremantle great Paul Hasleby has delivered a scathing assessment of Dockers forward Liam Henry amid his link to a move away from the club, declaring potential suitors “can have him.”

Herald Sun reporter Jon Ralph revealed on Fox Footy that Henry could join the looming exodus at Fremantle, with the likes of Rory Lobb, Blake Acres and Griffin Logue expected to depart as the Dockers look to make room for Demons gun Luke Jackson.

Henry, who was taken by the club with Pick 9 in the 2019 AFL draft, has struggled to cement a place in Justin Longmuir’s team including playing seven games this season.

And with rival clubs circling the 21-year old as he explores his options, Hasleby has urged the Dockers to explore a trade for the youngster.

“They (rival cubs) can have him,” the 208-gamer said on SEN WA’s The Run Home.

“If there’s a club out there that wants Liam Henry, they can come and get him, because I watched him closely play for Peel Thunder on the weekend and he just doesn’t work hard enough.

“Longmuir won’t tolerate that, he wants blokes that play their role, play their position, and just give absolutely everything.

“The last five minutes of that game, and if he was injured, I’m sorry. But what I saw, he turned the ball over twice and there were times you just needed to screw your guts up, get front and centre, tackle, chase — he did none of that.

“He was a high draft pick and academy player to the Fremantle Dockers, and often when you trade them out, sometimes we look at that value.

“So if there is a club that wants to give up a pick 20, 25, 30 for Liam Henry, I reckon Fremantle should seriously look at that offer and move on. Because I just don’t think he’s going to have the work rate to make it happen at that football club.”

Henry was moved from his customary small forward role onto a wing this season as Fremantle trialled different options after Acres was struck down with injury, but the speedster struggled to make an impact.

He was one of 14 Dockers to feature in Peel Thunder’s elimination final win over South Fremantle on the weekend, registering nine disposals.

The 27-gamer is contracted for next season.

[Mofra]

He is definitely a player who sounds more exciting than he is - first round pick, indigenous small forward with silky skills and pace to burn!!! - but the reality is a small skinny quick guy who doesn't get the ball. Even James Rowe has at least shown an ability to kick goals at AFL level.
WAFL watchers have said his second efforts aren't up to AFL level for a small forward (based on late season form this year, not sure about earlier games).
Buyer beware

[jazzadogs]

WAFL watchers have said his second efforts aren't up to AFL level for a small forward (based on late season form this year, not sure about earlier games).
Buyer beware

I was going to mention his lack of pressure, but didn't want to get called out by the pressure act gurus.

[bornadog]

I was going to mention his lack of pressure, but didn't want to get called out by the pressure act gurus.

GG is pleased

[Happy Days]

He also seems a bit nightlightish from what I’ve seen.

[Boots]

Crossposting this from the 'review' thread because it's a really interesting take:



List management
List management needs a change in approach. Elevating 26 & 27-year-old VFL listed players to the AFL list has not worked. The VFL players must be at AFL level, (e.g., Marlion Pickett at the Tigers), or what is the point! There should not be the requirement to give them 30 or 40 games to develop. This has come at the expense of giving our younger players experience and game continuity, e.g., Khamis, West, Bedendo, Sweet and Butler etc.
Bringing in struggling mature age players from other clubs has been at the expense of trading out 23-year old’s that were not given the same opportunities. Two of the players traded out have blossomed at their respective new clubs. It is no surprise they commented in interviews that continuity of games and the coaches showing confidence in them has allowed them to be in the best players most weeks for their new clubs.
This brings us to the upcoming trade talk. Whilst Jones is likely to be a good asset down back, its baffling we would give a 32-year-old a 3-year contract, if this is true as speculated. What is the logic bringing Lobb? He is a 30-year-old forward / ruck looking at his 3rd club who has been a very inconsistent player throughout his career. We should not be blinded by his 4 goals against the dogs in Round 21. They were the result of uncontested lead up marks under no pressure. Tall forwards are not lacking at the dogs. We have had a young ruckman on our list for 4-years, he has been given very few opportunities at senior level. Let us not see him go the way of Lipinski and Young to shine at another club.
We need to reflect on the past to move forward to improve. Many of our 2016 premiership list; Bontempelli, JJ, Caleb Daniel, McLean, Boyd, Roberts, Stringer, McCrae, Hamling, and Clay Smith were recruited by Simon Dalrymple. Sydney is now benefiting from his experience and knowledge with a youth-based recruitment strategy. The Swans are a genuine premiership chance in 2022.
Giving his success recruiting young players to help teams get to the pointy end of the season, it calls into question the current strategy of recruiting mature age VFL players and AFL discards from other clubs.
Except for Jamara and Sam Darcy, we have placed an emphasis on recruiting small to mid-sized players, failed to target intercept marking defenders and continue to recruit speculative older players as short-term fixes.
It is time for a change in recruiting strategy.

...


Game plan
The current game plan is not working. It is based on restricting the ball from getting into the oppositions forward line and getting players back to support our backline. We are one of the lowest ranked teams for defending one on ones in our backline and highest scored against from turnovers. The current game plan places little emphasis on putting pressure on the ball carrier, and we continue to peel off outside 5 when standing the mark.
One of the key issues in the back-half is we continue to zone off our immediate player regardless of the game scenario. As we saw in the GF last year, a zone is useless at a centre bounce when it comes straight out the front of the square. A zone also does not work if the opposition move the ball quickly out of their defence and our mids or half forwards cannot get back to zone into the space. When our deep backs are guarding space on an opposition break and, there is no pressure on the ball carrier, the opposition forwards get uncontested opportunities.
The other issue with our back half is it appears our deep backs are instructed to fold back to guard the goal square or, space in an arc in front of the goal square, rather than go with the leading player. As we saw in the Freo games in Round 21 and the Elimination Final, Fremantle had uncontested marks resulting in goals as result of no pressure on the ball carrier or defensive pressure on the forward leading.
Whilst the Pies took the outside 5 approach on Saturday night, (surprising our backline analyst), several mids and half forwards got back quickly to guard space and whilst others put immense pressure on the ball carrier in open play. The Swans take a more man on man approach. What is widely acknowledged is that defence wins finals and there are various iterations how to successfully defend, ours isn’t one of them.
Regardless of the iterations it involves, pressure on the ball carrier and receiver in some form and having an exceptionally good intercept mark down back is a requirement for success: e.g., the McCartin brothers at the Swans, Darcy Moore and Jeremy Howe who combined for 21 intercepts against Freo, Tom Stewart at Geelong, May and Lever at the Dees.
The dogs game plan relies on spoiling creating 50/50 scenarios at best with small to medium sized players required to win the ball and run it out of our backline. This is at the expense of marking and controlling the ball. Our strategy is always going to put our defence under pressure. This game plan has also influenced our list management with an over emphasis on recruiting small to mid-sized players.
Let’s look at the game plan that worked for us in 2016, improve on it (see team structure and selection below), learn from the teams that have won the premiership since and those that are contesting the premiership this year.
Team structure / selection and players played out of position
When Luke came onboard, he was the beneficiary of Brendan McCartney placing importance on winning the contested ball, defence first and the sound recruiting by Simon Dalrymple.
Whilst we acknowledge the reasons behind Brendan’s departure, we have difficulty understanding the drastic change in team plan and structure that served as so well in 2016, the basics remain the same.
Our team structure for the GF in 2016 was based on 2 ruckman - forwards, Jordan Roughhead and Tom Boyd, notwithstanding the 3rd man up rule was still applicable. Our defence was based around 3 talls, Joel Hamling, Fletcher Roberts, and Dale Morris. They were supported by an intercept mark in Easton Wood, running backs JJ, Biggs and hard nut and defensive organiser Matty Boyd. Joel Hamling was traded back to Freo for family reasons, Roberts, Mathew Boyd and Roughhead were relegated to playing most of the 2017 season in the VFL. Our team structure has not looked anything like that since.
There is also a concern with players put in roles that does not match their skill set. JJ won a Norm Smith medal paying at halfback but has played as a wingman and half- forward since 2018 with only the occasional success.
Libba, the best clearance player in the competition in 2021 / 2022 spent the first 3-games on a half forward flank in 2022! Ed Richards made his mark in his first season playing of the halfback line. Like JJ he was moved to a wing and half forward with little impact. It is no surprise Ed’s breakout season this year is after he was moved back to the position, he played the majority of his junior footy.
Some of the past players had concerns with the recruitment of Mitch Hannan and elevation of Anthony Scott and others to the AFL list at the expense of young developing players. That said, it was unreasonable to expect Mitch and Anthony to be thrown into the half-backline, positions they have rarely played before and expect them to have an impact.
Some players are position specialists and that is where they provide the most benefit to the team. The philosophy of every player being able to play multiple positions does not always apply.
The Premiers since 2016, have a common theme. The team is built around the spine, a dominant ruckman supported by a 2nd tall with ruck craft, one or two intercept marks and defensive pressure.
We love seeing the Dogs playing finals and we want more, as all supporters do. What we do not want is wasting a season as we have done this year due to poor recruiting, poor game plan, lack of an effective defensive system and the lack of game continuity for the young and emerging players.
This can be a quick and simple fix, it just takes a change of philosophy from our coaches in the game plan, bring in one or two experienced assistant coaches that will challenge the status quo, replicate one or more aspects of the defensive systems of the teams playing off in the preliminary finals and, give our younger players greater game continuity. If this is done, we are of the belief we can push for a top four spot and go deep into the finals next year.

Will make comments in a second post in a bit.

[bornadog]

Well this is where we stand:

Jason Johannisen: 2022
Josh Dunkley: 2022
Rhylee West: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2019-08-15/west-resigns-for-two-more?fbclid=IwAR10ihTVX91PaUuu1oXgonP5bmJd_YVX8fjHJLMlBf_n9c L5IGBMhGd8HbA)
Alex Keath: 2022
Josh Schache: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/209163/schaches-new-deal)
Louis Butler: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/980010/?fbclid=IwAR3b9E0HiTTGSLfquL6WDzHVGasYKYDwDNYR0mtoPHBFdWxCuW-9PQxOoB0)
Zaine Cordy: 2022 (https://www.afl.com.au/news/663027/tigers-free-agent-set-for-new-deal-premiership-dog-hits-trigger)
Taylor Duryea: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1003352/duryea-locked-in-for-2022?fbclid=IwAR20dBmLo9PH-bWohtMA02Qem7sAyLAqUUYDiIfxV_QHWbKZEVpGU2q3vLQ)
Mitch Wallis: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1025191/wallis-commits-to-the-kennel)
Stefan Martin: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1028726/martin-to-play-on-in-2022)
Charlie Parker: 2022 (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1034063/2021-afl-rookie-draft-pick-17-charlie-parker) (Rookie)

Could the lot go?

We can take West off the list - just signed two years more.

[GVGjr]

We can take West off the list - just signed two years more.

Good decision by West.

[Mofra]

Really happy with West. WCE were going hard for him, glad he re-signed

[EasternWest]

Really happy with West. WCE were going hard for him, glad he re-signed

But think of the missed headline opportunities?

West leaves West for the West. It writes itself.

Although now I suppose we've got West declines West for the West.

[azabob]

But think of the missed headline opportunities?

West leaves West for the West. It writes itself.

Although now I suppose we've got West declines West for the West.

What about "Go West young West"

[EasternWest]

What about "Go West young West"

Not bad. Needs more West.

[hujsh]

Not bad. Needs more West.

No West for West: "I'm staying West" said West in the West

[josie]

The West that young West rejects, so he can stay just a little west. I’ll show myself out the door.

[azabob]

Not bad. Needs more West.

This coming from the guy who is more East than West.

[bornadog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdRttdwD4as

[DOG GOD]

Very happy to hear of West staying.

[EasternWest]

This coming from the guy who is more East than West.

Touche

[Testekill]

West was someone that had serious flaws in his game last year which I thought would potentially cause him to wash out, he worked on those flaws in the VFL this year and was able to crack the team. I do think he needs to find the balance between selfless and selfish, there were a few times this season where he was probably in the best position to take a shot but passed it off.

[DOG GOD]

West was someone that had serious flaws in his game last year which I thought would potentially cause him to wash out, he worked on those flaws in the VFL this year and was able to crack the team. I do think he needs to find the balance between selfless and selfish, there were a few times this season where he was probably in the best position to take a shot but passed it off.

I agree, and on another note, there was more than one occasion when he was burnt by the mids, where he was all by himself in the fwd 50, and ignored. Hopefully next year that doesn’t happen too often.

[chef]

Great news about Westie, hopefully he can help fill the hole Dunkley will leave in our mid field.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Well I for one am very happy to keep Westie on the list. Showed some tenacity and genuine attack on the ball. Clean strong hands in the air and on the ground, and a burning desire to be competitive. Seemed pretty reliable in front of goals as well. Plus I want to keep that pedigree in our stables. If #branddunks leaves there's an opening he just may fill. My prediction is he'll fill it damn well.

[whythelongface]

Wrong thread

[FrediKanoute]

Well I for one am very happy to keep Westie on the list. Showed some tenacity and genuine attack on the ball. Clean strong hands in the air and on the ground, and a burning desire to be competitive. Seemed pretty reliable in front of goals as well. Plus I want to keep that pedigree in our stables. If #branddunks leaves there's an opening he just may fill. My prediction is he'll fill it damn well.

I agree DD. I think he and Garcia are primed for the inside mid role that Dunks was going to take from Libba at some point. Dunks going means we need another 18 months of LIbba magic in the middle before their tank and bodies are at a level to really compete and extract and distribute.

[GVGjr]

With Dunkley confirming his destination request lets look at how we get this deal done and the implications of what it might mean.

I'd be asking for their first round pick this year and next year and would be willing to consider giving back our 2nd rounder for this year.

Brisbane first rounder this year is worth 1,112 points, if you assume (it's a risk) that they finish around the same spot next year that's 2,224 points.
Our 2nd round pick this year (#29) is worth is worth 653 points but that will get pushed back a bit with bids but might need to be offered to get the deal done.
That would give us a net gain of 1,571 points for Dunkley or about pick 8 overall.
We might even be able to use the 2023 Brisbane pick to trade back into the 2022 draft.

For Brisbane, losing McStay to Collingwood should net them 2 of Collingwoods 3rd round picks with a value of around 730 points.
That would give them pick 29, 33, 42 , 44 and 47 and a net value of points of 2,684. They'll need to find more though with 2 father sons to cover and the very likely scenario that Ashcroft goes #1.

[bornadog]

With Dunkley confirming his destination request lets look at how we get this deal done and the implications of what it might mean.

I'd be asking for their first round pick this year and next year and would be willing to consider giving back our 2nd rounder for this year.

Brisbane first rounder this year is worth 1,112 points, if you assume (it's a risk) that they finish around the same spot next year that's 2,224 points.
Our 2nd round pick this year (#29) is worth is worth 653 points but that will get pushed back a bit with bids but might need to be offered to get the deal done.
That would give us a net gain of 1,571 points for Dunkley or about pick 8 overall.
We might even be able to use the 2023 Brisbane pick to trade back into the 2022 draft.

For Brisbane, losing McStay to Collingwood should net them 2 of Collingwoods 3rd round picks with a value of around 730 points.
That would give them pick 29, 33, 42 , 44 and 47 and a net value of points of 2,684. They'll need to find more though with 2 father sons to cover and the very likely scenario that Ashcroft goes #1.

Brisbane may also lose Gardiner, so that should give them something to work with.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

With Dunkley confirming his destination request lets look at how we get this deal done and the implications of what it might mean.

I'd be asking for their first round pick this year and next year and would be willing to consider giving back our 2nd rounder for this year.

I'm not sure I like that deal.

Pick 16ish this year and an upgrade on a second rounder is below what I'd be hoping we target. We're giving up a proven, quality, prime mid for essentially a speculative pick and a speculative pick upgrade.

I know in terms of 'points' it might equate to pick 8, but unless it's pick 8, it's not pick 8.

I think we need to go to Brisbane with 2 possible options, if they can't meet it, I'd prefer to send him to the PSD rather than make a competitor so much better for so little cost. If we want a top 10 pick for Dunkley, let's be unforgiving in our demand.

1) Top 10 pick
or
2) First round pick + a player

[Happy Days]

Letting Dunkley walk to the PSD seems petty, but not allowing Brisbane to become better might be legitimately our best asset grab for next season.

Need North to do us a favour and flag an interest.

[GVGjr]

I'm not sure I like that deal.

Pick 16ish this year and an upgrade on a second rounder is below what I'd be hoping we target. We're giving up a proven, quality, prime mid for essentially a speculative pick and a speculative pick upgrade.

I know in terms of 'points' it might equate to pick 8, but unless it's pick 8, it's not pick 8.

I think we need to go to Brisbane with 2 possible options, if they can't meet it, I'd prefer to send him to the PSD rather than make a competitor so much better for so little cost. If we want a top 10 pick for Dunkley, let's be unforgiving in our demand.

1) Top 10 pick
or
2) First round pick + a player

But we've been talking about splitting a pick as well. that's essentially what we have to do now.
We could even use next years to pick to trade with GC to get back into this year.

I'm not so sure I get the PSD option as losing him for nothing gains us what?

[hujsh]

Letting Dunkley walk to the PSD seems petty, but not allowing Brisbane to become better might be legitimately our best asset grab for next season.

Need North to do us a favour and flag an interest.

Does it even need to be North? There are nine teams between us and North in the PSD. Couldn't we just draft him before Brisbane if need be?

[Happy Days]

Does it even need to be North? There are nine teams between us and North in the PSD. Couldn't we just draft him before Brisbane if need be?

Yeah it needs to be North. Would be terminal for the Dunkley brand. You guys can go be mature about his exit over there, I want blood.

[SonofScray]

But we've been talking about splitting a pick as well. that's essentially what we have to do now.
We could even use next years to pick to trade with GC to get back into this year.

I'm not so sure I get the PSD option as losing him for nothing gains us what?
I suppose it stop a likely opponent in a final next year from having an extra 25 disposals, and two goals.

If this was US sport, something the likes of Dunks would be all for, we wouldn’t deal within the division.

[hujsh]

But we've been talking about splitting a pick as well. that's essentially what we have to do now.
We could even use next years to pick to trade with GC to get back into this year.

I'm not so sure I get the PSD option as losing him for nothing gains us what?

It's kind of like Prisoners game nuclear tactics stuff. An important part of the power play between nuclear powers is showing how willing you are to press the button. Sure if you press that button everyone loses but also the other guys don't win.

In this case we lose Dunkley but also Brisbane lose Dunkley. It's a scenario we'd both want to avoid but if we're willing to do it then our bargaining position is stronger. The ball is also then in Dunkley's court on if he wants to go literally anywhere from North to West Coast or if he'd rather just stay here. Being out of contract of course limits our negotiating power but because Brisbane did so well this year we're not in a spot to get completely bent over. Think GWS trading Cameron or Geelong trading Kelly rather than Carlton trading for Martin

[hujsh]

Yeah it needs to be North. Would be terminal for the Dunkley brand. You guys can go be mature about his exit over there, I want blood.

Haha okay you want carnage of Brand Dunks first and foremost. I missed that aspect but respect it.

[GVGjr]

This on AFL.com

The Bulldogs asked for two first-round picks from Essendon in 2020 when Dunkley wanted to move there two years ago, and the demand is expected to be the same given the midfielder's rise as a player this season. He polled the most votes of any Bulldog in Sunday night's Brownlow Medal and is a strong chance to take out the club's best and fairest.

Ashcroft is the standout player in this year's draft pool and it would be a surprise if the Lions didn't need to match a bid at No.1, while fellow father-son prospect Jaspa Fletcher could also attract a top-20 bid.

ANALYSIS Why the Lions are primed to contend again

The Lions could try to use future selections to land Dunkley or be prepared to go into a significant draft points deficit, which would push back their first pick next year. They could also use their top pick in this year's draft in a deal for Dunkley and then use a future first-round pick to trade in multiple second-round picks this year to land more points to pay for the father-son duo.

[Topdog]

We should be expecting 2 1sts for Dunks.
I'd be ok with sending something small back.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

But we've been talking about splitting a pick as well. that's essentially what we have to do now.
We could even use next years to pick to trade with GC to get back into this year.

I'm not so sure I get the PSD option as losing him for nothing gains us what?

You have to stick to what you believe is fair value. If you don't, in a VERY small industry, what you are basically saying is we'll take whatever is offered. Why would anyone accept less than fair value for a sought after commodity?

If Brisbane turned around and said, "sorry, we can only offer you our first pick next year - we are committed to our F/S prospects this year" should we take it because the alterative is nothing?

We need to set the price for Dunkley, as any seller should, and be prepared to stick to it.

The bar shouldn't be lowered just because he nominated Brisbane and their situation is more difficult than a Port Adelaide. That's on Dunkley for nominating them and Brisbane for going after him.

[bornadog]

You would think Brisbane have it all worked out otherwise they wouldn't put an offer on the table.

[Topdog]

Brisbane arent stupid, they would know they cant expect to get Ashcroft and Dunkley without giving up anything.

[bornadog]

Suggestion on Twitter which sounds reasonable

* Brisbane receive: Josh Dunkley + pick 37 (653 points) + pick 65 (90 points)


* Bulldogs receive: pick 15 + 2023 1st round pick + 2023 second round pick

[1eyedog]

Does it even need to be North? There are nine teams between us and North in the PSD. Couldn't we just draft him before Brisbane if need be?

This would be the most crazy ass pick of all time.

[MrMahatma]

Suggestion on Twitter which sounds reasonable

* Brisbane receive: Josh Dunkley + pick 37 (653 points) + pick 65 (90 points)


* Bulldogs receive: pick 15 + 2023 1st round pick + 2023 second round pick

I get it... but also, 2 or 3, or whatever OK players are not as good as one excellent one. So, shouldn't we be expecting at least something GOOD - IE: A top 10 pick, as part of any package? 2 late firsts and a second, where we're also giving them back our 3rd round and change, doesn't make sense to me.

Do we need points next year for anyone?

[Grantysghost]

Suggestion on Twitter which sounds reasonable

* Brisbane receive: Josh Dunkley + pick 37 (653 points) + pick 65 (90 points)


* Bulldogs receive: pick 15 + 2023 1st round pick + 2023 second round pick

Can the Lions match a pick one (2400) with out their first rounder? Be difficult.

I know we had to move on 14 (Treloar trade?) to get JUH.

[GVGjr]

Suggestion on Twitter which sounds reasonable

* Brisbane receive: Josh Dunkley + pick 37 (653 points) + pick 65 (90 points)


* Bulldogs receive: pick 15 + 2023 1st round pick + 2023 second round pick

Pick 37 (the North Pick) is worth 483 points, 653 points is our 2nd rounder.

It's close to what I suggested.

[Grantysghost]

Pick 37 (the North Pick) is worth 483 points, 653 points is our 2nd rounder.

It's close to what I suggested.

Where would you put Dunkley in a basic trade G? I would say now, has to be 5-10.

If we use 5 for eg they need to stump up something in draft points around the 1900 mark.

Their first 15 (1112) and a future first at a guess around the same would be fine by me with something coming back from us.

I just don't know how they do it with Ashcroft in the mix.

Are they going to have to trade someone of value out?

[azabob]

Suggestion on Twitter which sounds reasonable

* Brisbane receive: Josh Dunkley + pick 37 (653 points) + pick 65 (90 points)


* Bulldogs receive: pick 15 + 2023 1st round pick + 2023 second round pick


Pick 37 (the North Pick) is worth 483 points, 653 points is our 2nd rounder.

It's close to what I suggested.

This is way over my head, but if Brisbane go into a draft points deficit which pushes back their 2023 draft position and we accept this proposal doesn't this result in our draft position going back also?

Surely accepting any future draft picks from Brisbane is a huge risk as the whole Ashcroft and Fletcher father son scenerio's are unknown until draft night.

For mine; we need to ensure any trades with Brisbane are not linked to any future picks.

[GVGjr]

Where would you put Dunkley in a basic trade G? I would say now, has to be 5-10.

If we use 5 for eg they need to stump up something in draft points around the 1900 mark.

Their first 15 (1112) and a future first at a guess around the same would be fine by me with something coming back from us.

I just don't know how they do it with Ashcroft in the mix.

Are they going to have to trade someone of value out?

Dunkley is a top 10 pick but Brisbane don't currently have a lot to work with but that will change.
They are trading out McStay who Collingwood can help them with a couple of picks in the 3rd round and the points will exceed 700.
That would mean McStay is a mid 2nd rounder in terms of points which seems about right.

Brisbane could also look to trade a player back to us. Mofra has suggested Ballarat boy Lohmann who was an early 2nd rounder last year. A natural half forward might have some appeal. Mof also suggested that we have been interested in Payne who is a key defender.
If a needs based player is somewhat interested in heading to us it could be worth considering.

By the way it's Ashcroft and Fletcher they need to cover. I'd love to use Brisbane's first round pick this year to bid on Fletcher so that they pay full value but I couldn't see that happening. :)

[Rocco Jones]

This is way over my head, but if Brisbane go into a draft points deficit which pushes back their 2023 draft position and we accept this proposal doesn't this result in our draft position going back also?

Surely accepting any future draft picks from Brisbane is a huge risk as the whole Ashcroft and Fletcher father son scenerio's are unknown until draft night.

For mine; we need to ensure any trades with Brisbane are not linked to any future picks.

Future picks don't work that way. If they are traded to us, they become ours like any other pick.

[bornadog]

I get it... but also, 2 or 3, or whatever OK players are not as good as one excellent one. So, shouldn't we be expecting at least something GOOD - IE: A top 10 pick, as part of any package? 2 late firsts and a second, where we're also giving them back our 3rd round and change, doesn't make sense to me.

Do we need points next year for anyone?

How do Brisbane get a top 10 pick?

[hujsh]

How do Brisbane get a top 10 pick?

They trade Cameron to...someone...(it's us)

[Bulldog Joe]

Dunkley is a top 10 pick but Brisbane don't currently have a lot to work with but that will change.
They are trading out McStay who Collingwood can help them with a couple of picks in the 3rd round and the points will exceed 700.
That would mean McStay is a mid 2nd rounder in terms of points which seems about right.

Brisbane could also look to trade a player back to us. Mofra has suggested Ballarat boy Lohmann who was an early 2nd rounder last year. A natural half forward might have some appeal. Mof also suggested that we have been interested in Payne who is a key defender.
If a needs based player is somewhat interested in heading to us it could be worth considering.

By the way it's Ashcroft and Fletcher they need to cover. I'd love to use Brisbane's first round pick this year to bid on Fletcher so that they pay full value but I couldn't see that happening. :)

Isn't McStay a free agent. Collingwood don't give up any picks and Brisbane get whatever is determined fair (?) compensation.

Personally I think we should be asking for a player.

Starcevich as a defender would be on my shopping list, but would also ask about Berry.

A best 22 player plus their first pick is my starting point.

[Axe Man]

Isn't McStay a free agent. Collingwood don't give up any picks and Brisbane get whatever is determined fair (?) compensation.

Yep, the thought seems to be that McStay will get them a second round pick (currently 34) as compensation.

[Axe Man]

Future picks don't work that way. If they are traded to us, they become ours like any other pick.

They are still tied to the ladder position of the original team though. But I believe you are correct in that they wouldn't move due to a Brisbane points deficit as they are no longer their picks.

[Rocco Jones]

They are still tied to the ladder position of the original team though. But I believe you are correct in that they wouldn't move due to a Brisbane points deficit as they are no longer their picks.

Yep. That’s right.

[Grantysghost]

Yep. That’s right.

So if the Lions have a remarkable fall like the Demons of 2019 we get a top 5 pick if we get their future first.

The rooting thread is going to be in over drive!

[Testekill]

Is anyone a little concerned that Martin hasn't announced his retirement yet? Surely we don't try and take him into next season right?

[azabob]

Isn't McStay a free agent. Collingwood don't give up any picks and Brisbane get whatever is determined fair (?) compensation.

Personally I think we should be asking for a player.

Starcevich as a defender would be on my shopping list, but would also ask about Berry.

A best 22 player plus their first pick is my starting point.

Starcevich, Answerth or Robertson were on my list last week.

Realistically Starcevich, Berry and Bailey would be off limits.

[Grantysghost]

Is anyone a little concerned that Martin hasn't announced his retirement yet? Surely we don't try and take him into next season right?

I am now!

[Axe Man]

Is anyone a little concerned that Martin hasn't announced his retirement yet? Surely we don't try and take him into next season right?

We haven't announced any list changes yet so I'm not really concerned. If they announce some delistings and don't mention Stef then start to panic. ;)

[Topdog]

Brisbane gave up pick 6 and 19 to get Neale. I'd be looking for something similar.

[bornadog]

We haven't announced any list changes yet so I'm not really concerned. If they announce some delistings and don't mention Stef then start to panic. ;)

Surely Martin should have said that is it.

[Mofra]

Starcevich, Answerth or Robertson were on my list last week.

Realistically Starcevich, Berry and Bailey would be off limits.
Brissie fans seem to think Answerth is gettable, and being pushed out.
How lockdown can he play? Duryea won't be around forever...

[Boots]

Brisbane gave up pick 6 and 19 to get Neale. I'd be looking for something similar.

Neale had already won the brownlow though hadn't he? Dunks is pretty good but he's not that good.

What, realistically, are our chances of getting a decent defender out of all this? I feel like if we don't next season is probably going to go as badly as this one.

[MrMahatma]

Neale had already won the brownlow though hadn't he? Dunks is pretty good but he's not that good.

What, realistically, are our chances of getting a decent defender out of all this? I feel like if we don't next season is probably going to go as badly as this one.

Nah, Neale won it at Brisbane.

[bornadog]

Nah, Neale won it at Brisbane.

Correct. Traded in 2019 and won the 2020 Brownlow

[Topdog]

Correct. Traded in 2019 and won the 2020 Brownlow

Yep had 11 votes for Freo in the year he was traded. Think Neale was 25 when he was traded, so very similar age.

I'm not saying Dunkley is as good, they are different players in any case but yeah lets push hard.

[Bullies]

Yep had 11 votes for Freo in the year he was traded. Think Neale was 25 when he was traded, so very similar age.

I'm not saying Dunkley is as good, they are different players in any case but yeah lets push hard. Brisbane don't have much to offer so i can see us being screwed over here through not fault of ours. Take it or leave it will be the likely scenario unfortunately. Worst case he walks to North for nothing.

[Topdog]

Brisbane don't have much to offer so i can see us being screwed over here through not fault of ours. Take it or leave it will be the likely scenario unfortunately. Worst case he walks to North for nothing.

They also didnt have pick 6 or 19 when the trade period started for Neale.

Started that year with 5, 24, 43 and 62. By the end of it they had picked up Lincoln McCarthy, Neale and Marcus Adams but lost Beams and Sam Mayes. Then selected 5 players in the draft before pick 55!

They have 42 players and 6 draft picks at the moment. Lots of time for them to make moves.

[Bulldog4life]

Is anyone a little concerned that Martin hasn't announced his retirement yet? Surely we don't try and take him into next season right?

Ruck coach?

[Bulldog4life]

Brisbane gave up pick 6 and 19 to get Neale. I'd be looking for something similar.

God Gold Coast gave up pick 2 for Weller. We have to make this hard for them. Like losing a player they don't want to lose for example.

[Grantysghost]

God Gold Coast gave up pick 2 for Weller. We have to make this hard for them. Like losing a player they don't want to lose for example.

Problem is the player has to agree, so even if the Lions say hey Charlie Cameron you're going to the Dogs as part of the Dunkley trade he just says no and that's that.

[Bulldog4life]

Problem is the player has to agree, so even if the Lions say hey Charlie Cameron you're going to the Dogs as part of the Dunkley trade he just says no and that's that.

Why do you always make sense GG? Well most of the time....

[Grantysghost]

Why do you always make sense GG? Well most of the time....

There was this one time.....

[Axe Man]

Talk that Tomlinson and Weideman could be on the move from Melbourne. Tomlinson has fallen behind Petty as the third tall backman but I don't think he's the right fit for us at 29 and 194cm.

Could Weideman become a KPD, because he doesn't appear to be an AFL level KPF. There was a rumour we had identified a forward we thought could become a backman, could it be Weideman? At 25 years old and 197cm it's a good fit, whether he is any good is the query.

[1eyedog]

Talk that Tomlinson and Weideman could be on the move from Melbourne. Tomlinson has fallen behind Petty as the third tall backman but I don't think he's the right fit for us at 29 and 194cm.

Could Weideman become a KPD, because he doesn't appear to be an AFL level KPF. There was a rumour we had identified a forward we thought could become a backman, could it be Weideman? At 25 years old and 197cm it's a good fit, whether he is any good is the query.

To me Weideman is Ryan Gardner and I'm actually ok with Gardner now. Glad we missed on Tomlinson three years ago the best thing he did for Melbourne was get injured. Cruel but true.

[azabob]

Talk that Tomlinson and Weideman could be on the move from Melbourne. Tomlinson has fallen behind Petty as the third tall backman but I don't think he's the right fit for us at 29 and 194cm.

Could Weideman become a KPD, because he doesn't appear to be an AFL level KPF. There was a rumour we had identified a forward we thought could become a backman, could it be Weideman? At 25 years old and 197cm it's a good fit, whether he is any good is the query.

If I continue to pull on the Weideman thread there was talk Melbourne enquired after Naughton... obviously we shut that down...

[Mofra]

Stef Martin to sign a 1 year extension according to Mark Stevens
I like Stef but I'm not sure I like this

[Rocco Jones]

Stef Martin to sign a 1 year extension according to Mark Stevens
I like Stef but I'm not sure I like this

Wow. The guy was cooked two years ago. We love our good blokes like nothing else.

[bulldogtragic]

Stef Martin to sign a 1 year extension according to Mark Stevens
I like Stef but I'm not sure I like this

WRFL or AFEL?

That ends ruck trading speculation.

[Grantysghost]

Stef Martin to sign a 1 year extension according to Mark Stevens
I like Stef but I'm not sure I like this

Why!? Oh dear me. Is this Bevo's boys club at work again?

Breaking: We cross live to Skinner Reserve to get a comment from Stef.

https://media.giphy.com/media/5xqKWd6761tkY/giphy.gif

[Happy Days]

That’s ridiculous. Stef seems like a great guy and I would be happy for him to begin as a coach with us but he was finished in 2021.

But yeah let’s not look at Grundy.

[Topdog]

I hope Stevo is very wrong on this one.

[GVGjr]

Stef Martin to sign a 1 year extension according to Mark Stevens
I like Stef but I'm not sure I like this

It doesn't really surprise me. Is it a sign that we need a contingency in case the Lobb deal can't get done?

[Topdog]

It doesn't really surprise me. Is it a sign that we need a contingency in case the Lobb deal can't get done?

But what happens if the Lobb deal gets done? He is cooked and Sweet has passed him.

[GVGjr]

But what happens if the Lobb deal gets done? He is cooked and Sweet has passed him.

Lobb is a forward ruckman ie to provide an upgraded chop out when English is off the ground. Lobb should never have been considered as a replacement for Martin.

[Vred]

Stef on another year? Your joking right? No chance.

We have Grundy, Lobb, Meek all looking to float clubs and we re-sign the animated corpse of Stef Martin?

God, I do question our club sometimes.

[azabob]

If we retain Martin clearly we do not value list spots.

[G-Mo77]

Surely you can't be serious?

[Topdog]

Lobb is a forward ruckman ie to provide an upgraded chop out when English is off the ground. Lobb should never have been considered as a replacement for Martin.

Disagree, Martin is our 3rd choice ruck. If we are down to 3rd choice and need those 4 games any replacement will be sufficient.

[bulldogtragic]

Too much of anything is no good. Loyalty is important, but surely there’s a limit.

[G-Mo77]

Stef on another year? Your joking right? No chance.

We have Grundy, Lobb, Meek all looking to float clubs and we re-sign the animated corpse of Stef Martin?

God, I do question our club sometimes.

Animated corpse? I'm pissing myself laughing over that one

[Mofra]

Stef on another year? Your joking right? No chance.

We have Grundy, Lobb, Meek all looking to float clubs and we re-sign the animated corpse of Stef Martin?

God, I do question our club sometimes.
Melbourne will take Grundy and at $600k Meek is a very expensive VFL ruckman (because we've locked in English as our no 1, no doubt in the MC mind)

[Axe Man]

But what happens if the Lobb deal gets done? He is cooked and Sweet has passed him.

Not that I think we should retain Stef but it was apparent late in the season that Sweet still hasn't passed a decrepit Martin.

[chef]

Haha how dumb are we. Martin is past cooked he's frigging charcoal.

[F'scary]

I don't want to hear that he is a ruck whisperer and we play better when he is in the team. No more Martin! :mad:

[jazzadogs]

Too much of anything is no good. Loyalty is important, but surely there’s a limit.

Thought this might be a tipping point for you. Certainly shows me that we are taking an attitude of 'dont need to change much' to list management.

[EasternWest]

Stef Martin to sign a 1 year extension according to Mark Stevens
I like Stef but I'm not sure I like this

Can't and won't believe this.

I mean, I don't blame Stef (girls girls get that cash, if it's 9 to 5 or shakin' that ass) but this is straight up mismanagement if true.

[Grantysghost]

Can't and won't believe this.

I mean, I don't blame Stef (girls girls get that cash, if it's 9 to 5 or shakin' that ass) but this is straight up mismanagement if true.

Is it an acceptance the Lobb deal is tote in wasser die?

The mitigation was a Martin extension for min chips.

[Rocco Jones]

I don’t think Lobb and Stef are directly competing for a spot.

[Grantysghost]

I don’t think Lobb and Stef are directly competing for a spot.

No, but maybe a ruck depth thing.

I'm buggered if I can come up with a valid reason.

[DOG GOD]

If this is true, Ive heard it all now

[G-Mo77]

I don’t think Lobb and Stef are directly competing for a spot.

Neither do I. Should Lobb join us his position will be Fwd/Ruck, if English gets injured we'll look to Sweet and Martin, hopefully in that order.

[DOG GOD]

Neither do I. Should Lobb join us his position will be Fwd/Ruck, if English gets injured we'll look to Sweet and Martin, hopefully in that order.

If English gets injured, we are literally screwed.

[Axe Man]

If English gets injured, we are literally screwed.

To quote Inigo Montoya, I do not think it means what you think it means.

[GVGjr]

If English gets injured, we are literally screwed.

It was basically the same last year and this year and while it's early days it could be the same for next season.

[DOG GOD]

It was basically the same last year and this year and while it's early days it could be the same for next season.

And if we go into a 3rd year with this same set up then it’s a farce.

[GVGjr]

And if we go into a 3rd year with this same set up then it’s a farce.

I know this is a view not shared by many but I think it's a reflection of how the coach views rucks within his game plans.

[1eyedog]

If English gets injured, we are literally screwed.

If English doesn't get injured we're still screwed.

[1eyedog]

I know this is a view not shared by many but I think it's a reflection of how the coach views rucks within his game plans.

I reckon that's a view shared by many.

[MrMahatma]

I know this is a view not shared by many but I think it's a reflection of how the coach views rucks within his game plans.

Nothing to do with the list manager? All Bevo?

[GVGjr]

Nothing to do with the list manager? All Bevo?

I think it's on Bevo, we have topped up with various state league midfield type players rather that take on a longer term ruck project to follow through with Sweet. If Bevo said to Power get me a ruckman I think we've had the capacity over the last few seasons to do that.

[Bulldog4life]

Stef Martin to sign a 1 year extension according to Mark Stevens
I like Stef but I'm not sure I like this

Are you SERIOUS...Not a fan of this decision especially when we are after Lobb too.

[dog town]

I think it's on Bevo, we have topped up with various state league midfield type players rather that take on a longer term ruck project to follow through with Sweet. If Bevo said to Power get me a ruckman I think we've had the capacity over the last few seasons to do that.

I think rightly or wrongly he wants the second ruck to be able to play forward otherwise it compromises the team. We have that in English obviously but we committed to playing him as first ruck, this is why we are targeting Lobb in my view for a best of both worlds scenario (in their view).

Personal view is unless they are elite I don’t want a giant statue sitting in the ruck position. Elite rucks are hard to find or develop, elite ruck/forwards arguably harder so it’s either develop a ruck/forward, trade for a ruck forward or trade for an elite ruck and pray English isn’t gone this time next year. People asking for a tall guy for the sake of it are not considering impacts on other aspects of the game.

Do agree this is a Bevo choice for better or worse. Not sure he has much choice with English at this point given what we know. Key is getting some help in that doesn’t leave us playing one short after the bounce, Grundy fits that but then we have a disgruntled English. No easy fix on this and the club has multiple things to consider not just the best 22 on paper.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If Martin signs anything other than retirement papers, this club is in a much worse position of delusion than I actually thought.

[bornadog]

Grundy fits that but then we have a disgruntled English. No easy fix on this and the club has multiple things to consider not just the best 22 on paper.

I heard Goodwin talk this morning and he thinks he can easily make it work with Gawn and Grundy, so we should be able to do the same.

[bornadog]

If Martin signs anything other than retirement papers, this club is in a much worse position of delusion than I actually thought.

Totally agree, but let's not get stressed till we see what happens.

What would you do if we tried really hard to get another ruck in and we just couldn't. Do you keep Martin as insurance, or just go with English and Sweet.

[DOG GOD]

Totally agree, but let's not get stressed till we see what happens.

What would you do if we tried really hard to get another ruck in and we just couldn't. Do you keep Martin as insurance, or just go with English and Sweet.

There is literally no excuse..if we are even contemplating wasting a list spot on Martin, then we might as well waste it on a ruckman from the VFL etc. so there is no reason we cannot get a ruckman from some lower league instead of signing on Martin.

[hujsh]

There is literally no excuse..if we are even contemplating wasting a list spot on Martin, then we might as well waste it on a ruckman from the VFL etc. so there is no reason we cannot get a ruckman from some lower league instead of signing on Martin.

I'm kind of thinking the same. Sweet should surely either be good enough to be the backup or should be gone. That'd mean there's room for one more developing ruck.

It's not like Martin is a better forward or anything (they're both pretty bad there)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Totally agree, but let's not get stressed till we see what happens.

What would you do if we tried really hard to get another ruck in and we just couldn't. Do you keep Martin as insurance, or just go with English and Sweet.

I'd rather take a punt on a state league ruck, a ruck not getting a game at another club, or a player in another position of need and keep Schache for ruck insurance.

Basically ANYTHING other than keeping Martin on the list.

[Mofra]

Totally agree, but let's not get stressed till we see what happens.

What would you do if we tried really hard to get another ruck in and we just couldn't. Do you keep Martin as insurance, or just go with English and Sweet.
We sign either Ballendon or Crossley from the VFL who need work, but both have shown more forward craft that Sweet so they're actually a chance of playing occasionally.

[bornadog]

We sign either Ballendon or Crossley from the VFL who need work, but both have shown more forward craft that Sweet so they're actually a chance of playing occasionally.

Well hard to understand why Martin isn't retired, or we are waiting to get someone first

[G-Mo77]

There is literally no excuse..if we are even contemplating wasting a list spot on Martin, then we might as well waste it on a ruckman from the VFL etc. so there is no reason we cannot get a ruckman from some lower league instead of signing on Martin.

This. If it's insurance get insurance from a state league player or another cast off, I'm not sure how it helps? Only thing I can come up with is a coaching role which is not counted on the coaching cap?

[Rocco Jones]

Thing with Stef, when we use him as the break glass for emergency option, he hasn't offered us much at all. It's baffling unless we see him as such a great assistant, but even then, hire him as one.

[azabob]

This. If it's insurance get insurance from a state league player or another cast off, I'm not sure how it helps? Only thing I can come up with is a coaching role which is not counted on the coaching cap?

Screw that. List spots are a valuable commodity. Find another way if we want to keep him on the books.

[F'scary]

If Martin is given a new contract, I think this club needs a new name. Something like:

(Footscray Football Club T/A)

Western BBQ

[dog town]

I heard Goodwin talk this morning and he thinks he can easily make it work with Gawn and Grundy, so we should be able to do the same. Remains to be seen if they can make it work but that’s two elite rucks one of who can play forward. We only have one component of that at this point.

[G-Mo77]

Screw that. List spots are a valuable commodity. Find another way if we want to keep him on the books.

Agree but it's all I can come up with. I'm scratching my head thinking why?

[Happy Days]

Nearly every move we’ve made (including those we haven’t made) short of drafting Sam Darcy in the last two years has been infuriating.

[bornadog]

nearly every move we’ve made (including those we haven’t made) short of drafting sam darcy in the last two years has been infuriating.

juh.........

[Happy Days]

juh.........

I meant after 2020. That off season was a banger. Where’d the guy who made that all happen go?

But man, losing Lipinski for nothing, making no moves at all in the face obvious weaknesses last year, McComb, not really having any decent draftees because all the picks were eaten by Darcy (not bad but not fun either), chasing flotsam players to fill alleged gaps on our list while we lose Dunkley for under market value, and seemingly being wholly allergic to any available player that could help in a real and immediate way.

It’s all so uninspiring and dispiriting. Can we do something that might actually make us, you know, better? These little swings are only serving to slowly let air out of our balloon.

[Grantysghost]

Lipinski still burns me.

Especially now Dunkley is gone.

[whythelongface]

Nearly every move we’ve made (including those we haven’t made) short of drafting Sam Darcy in the last two years has been infuriating.

Didn’t we pick up JUH and Treloar in 2020 which is in the last two years? Sure there obvious failures last year in our trading last year where we didn’t pick up any required positional players but prior to that our drafting has been spot on. Let’s see what this year brings.

[The bulldog tragician]

What is happening with the “review” - is it an urban myth - as surely these conversations about keeping Martin ( if true???) point to a continuation of a list management strategy that is at least questionable. Why would we offer Martin a deal at this point?

[Doc26]

If there is any truth to the re-signing of Stef it helps to provide clarity why Dunks is so keen to get out of the place.

[Grantysghost]

What is happening with the “review” - is it an urban myth - as surely these conversations about keeping Martin ( if true???) point to a continuation of a list management strategy that is at least questionable. Why would we offer Martin a deal at this point?

Bevo asked everyone if they still liked him and they said yes so I think it's done.

[FrediKanoute]

Lipinski still burns me.

Especially now Dunkley is gone.

You should be. We gave game time to Dunks over Lippa. We developed Dunks over Lippa. Sure we made an assessment that Dunks would project to be abetter player than Lippa, and he is currently, but gee, what we all woudln't give to have Lippa ready to step into his shoes.....

[Vred]

Tomlinson spotted at Dogs HQ today.

[Vred]

Sam Power and team spotted on Gold Coast meeting with GC and player managers.

[GVGjr]

Tomlinson spotted at Dogs HQ today.

Is there a link to this one Vred? By the way, where is our HQ at the moment?

[bornadog]

Tomlinson spotted at Dogs HQ today.

Tomlinson - no thanks

[azabob]

Tomlinson spotted at Dogs HQ today.


Sam Power and team spotted on Gold Coast meeting with GC and player managers.

So who exactly did Tomlinson meet with if our list management team was in the gold coast? Maybe a medical?

Appears Gold Coast are going to take advantage of dumping salary during the trade period.

[1eyedog]

If Dunks wants to get to Queensland, well the Gold Coast is in Queensland.

[Bulldog4life]

Sam Power and team spotted on Gold Coast meeting with GC and player managers.

Maybe convincing them to get into the Dunkley trade too.

[Bulldog4life]

If Dunks wants to get to Queensland, well the Gold Coast is in Queensland.

I've been on about this for a while.

[Vred]

So who exactly did Tomlinson meet with if our list management team was in the gold coast? Maybe a medical?

Appears Gold Coast are going to take advantage of dumping salary during the trade period.

Was a medical as reported by the media today.

According to both Dogs and Suns insiders on BigFooty, Sam Colins is the player we might be trying to pry out of Gold Coast to help with their salary dump.

[josie]

So Woofers - is Sam Collins good? I think he is late 20’s in age. If we land him do we also try for Tomlinson too, or is it one or the other?

[bornadog]

I donot know what role Tomlinson would play?

[bulldogtragic]

Was a medical as reported by the media today.

According to both Dogs and Suns insiders on BigFooty, Sam Colins is the player we might be trying to pry out of Gold Coast to help with their salary dump.

Granted I haven’t seen him in 18 months. But if still playing to the level he was. Hell yes.

Liam Jones & Collins can shot down and are great marks. Keath goes back to intercepting like his near AA season before we got him.

I’d have to start watching footy again.

[Testekill]

So Woofers - is Sam Collins good? I think he is late 20’s in age. If we land him do we also try for Tomlinson too, or is it one or the other?

Collins is a pretty good shutdown defender, a touch slow but if we fix up our pressure up the ground then he'd be really good in our defence.

[The bulldog tragician]

Collins is a pretty good shutdown defender, a touch slow but if we fix up our pressure up the ground then he'd be really good in our defence.
Was he the guy who comprehensively shut down Naughton (albeit with some questionable tactics)?

[jazzadogs]

Was he the guy who comprehensively shut down Naughton (albeit with some questionable tactics)?

Yes - he's a good 1v1 defender (unsure if supported by stats). I think he would be helpful for our system.

[GVGjr]

Was he the guy who comprehensively shut down Naughton (albeit with some questionable tactics)?

In the 2nd half after getting torched early on.
He has his limitations but he's a competitor.

[Happy Days]

Collins bragging about his “complete defensive performance” on Naughton after a loss makes me kinda think he’s a wanker but he’s a big upgrade on our current stocks. He’s maybe a little slow but excels one on one.

[whythelongface]

Surprised to read Collins is only 194cm. He plays taller and seems a capable one on one defender. An upgrade from Cordy. If we can land him and Jones it gives us options down back. Not world beaters but players that can do a job.

Keen to see us land some leg speed for our midfield. That is critical.

[Bullies]

Tomlinson - no thanks Agree. He was putrid this year playing mostly in the 2's after a year out with the knee. We don't need another list clogger.

[Mofra]

Collins bragging about his “complete defensive performance” on Naughton after a loss makes me kinda think he’s a wanker but he’s a big upgrade on our current stocks. He’s maybe a little slow but excels one on one.
If I beat Naughton in anything football related I'd be bragging too.
I prefer players confident enough to speak their mind.

[bornadog]

Agree. He was putrid this year playing mostly in the 2's after a year out with the knee. We don't need another list clogger.

Backline
Tomlinson 193cm
Collins 194cm
Cordy 195cm
Tim O'Brien 192cm

Midfield
The Bont 193cm


See something wrong here?

I am sorry, but we need a young tall CHB. We are we looking at these blokes all 28 plus years old, plus we are bringing in Jones who is 31 years old.

[Happy Days]

Also piss off we’re looking at Tomlinson. He’a so bad!

[Jasper]

Collins bragging about his “complete defensive performance” on Naughton after a loss makes me kinda think he’s a wanker but he’s a big upgrade on our current stocks. He’s maybe a little slow but excels one on one.

You really can both praise and ridicule a player in one statement.

[Jasper]

Backline
Tomlinson 193cm
Collins 194cm
Cordy 195cm
Tim O'Brien 192cm

Midfield
The Bont 193cm


See something wrong here?

I am sorry, but we need a young tall CHB. We are we looking at these blokes all 28 plus years old, plus we are bringing in Jones who is 31 years old.

So Bont to CHB?

[Jasper]

So Woofers - is Sam Collins good? I think he is late 20’s in age. If we land him do we also try for Tomlinson too, or is it one or the other?

Its hard to speculate but in a roundabout way he's not as good as Keath was in 2021 but probably offers more than Keath did this year.
With Jones coming in he should be a lower priority for us but I wouldn't rule it out.

[DOG GOD]

Would ..Collins, Jones and Tomlinson be better than Keath (2022 version), Cordy and Gardner ?
That’s the question

[hujsh]

Would ..Collins, Jones and Tomlinson be better than Keath (2022 version), Cordy and Gardner ?
That’s the question

As defenders? I'd probably back Collins to be better than what we have. Jones is a real toss up. Tominson sounds like people only rate him if it's moving back into that wing role.

[GVGjr]

Would ..Collins, Jones and Tomlinson be better than Keath (2022 version), Cordy and Gardner ?
That’s the question

I'd still hopeful that Keath isn't finished yet so adding Jones should be enough but a competitive player like Collins would be an added bonus.
Not that interested in Tomlinson especially if we are keeping Cordy. I believe Cordy hasn't agreed with us yet and one club has sounded him out. Perhaps all we are doing is ensuring we have options.

[dog town]

Tomlinson did far better at Melbourne than I thought he would before injury but we don’t need him. I would say we have done a medical in case other options fall through.

Collins is an improvement on what we have but is a one on one specialist like Jones. We need to be careful with our balance back there if we are investing resources into it.

[kruder]

Hopefully we are thinking system too, adding all these talls won't do much we if stand like witches hats in a web without putting pressure on the ball carrier.

I'm surprised we haven't heard anything more about the assistant coaches yet....

[azabob]

Hopefully we are thinking system too, adding all these talls won't do much we if stand like witches hats in a web without putting pressure on the ball carrier.

I'm surprised we haven't heard anything more about the assistant coaches yet....

Good call Kruder. Maple left and that’s it.

Maybe we’ve managed to get one of the swans or cats assistant coaches?

[Vred]

According to SEN we’ve asked about Jack Madgen from Collingwood

[GVGjr]

According to SEN we’ve asked about Jack Madgen from Collingwood

He did a shoulder against us this year. He's another older player. Do we think we are lacking experience?

[hujsh]

According to SEN we’ve asked about Jack Madgen from Collingwood

First. Thanks for sharing.

Second. Who is that and why would we want him? a 29 year old who isn't a best 22 player, doesn't seem to get a lot of the ball and is an awkward height (192cm) doesn't seem that appealing on paper.

[Happy Days]

I am once again begging us to ask about someone good.

[hujsh]

I am once again begging us to ask about someone good.
https://i.imgflip.com/6ueksd.jpg

[Dry Rot]

If I beat Naughton in anything football related I'd be bragging too.


My mullet is now longer than Naughton's.

And Smith's too.

[Swoop]

Collins is a good player and would be a great addition to our side but he's their vice captain, hasn't been mentioned at all through any media outlets, and they have no obvious replacements for letting their best defender go.

Collins seems unrealistic but happy to be proven wrong.

Is it worth buying Pick 7 and Bowes? If we combine that with compensation from Dunkley we would go into the draft with a very strong hand.

[Testekill]

He did a shoulder against us this year. He's another older player. Do we think we are lacking experience?

Even then he has played 50 games so it's not like he's a seasoned vet that would provide a cool head. Just another medicore tall that we've been connected to, just like the old days.

[EasternWest]

If I beat Naughton in anything football related I'd be bragging too.

I'd literally have it in my email signature.


Collins is a good player and would be a great addition to our side but he's their vice captain, hasn't been mentioned at all through any media outlets, and they have no obvious replacements for letting their best defender go.

Collins seems unrealistic but happy to be proven wrong.

Wasn't Steven May also?

[Dry Rot]

Getting Jones and trying for Collins (and maybe Tomlinson) is a massive of confidence in our existing tall/tallish defenders.

[chef]

Getting Jones and trying for Collins (and maybe Tomlinson) is a massive of confidence in our existing tall/tallish defenders.

Well it is our achilles heal as ours are a bit trash.

We need at least 2 new ones.

[Dry Rot]

Well it is our achilles heal as ours are a bit trash.

We need at least 2 new GOOD ones.

Corrected for accuracy.

[bornadog]

According to SEN we’ve asked about Jack Madgen from Collingwood

He will be 30 in April and is 192cm.

Why are we looking at all these 28 plus short arses who are hasbeens.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Is Collins contracted?

I'm a fan. Limited, but would be our best key defender and would pair well with Jones.

I have zero faith in Keath and if it were up to me, Cordy would be on the bus back to Ocean Grove.

Magden ... No.

I suppose we're at least being proactive and clearly we aren't done by just adding Jones.

[DOG GOD]

Has Bowes selected Geel as his preferred club ?

[GVGjr]

Has Bowes selected Geel as his preferred club ?

It's not clear that he has nominated any club but 4 clubs have apparently expressed an interest in getting that deal done.

[bulldogtragic]

Jon Ralph:

Suns are seen to be "well over the salary cap" and don't want too many high end picks as third and fourth year salaries for them will be around $450,000 a season. Also Bowes wants to play midfield, so that pretty much rules us out I guess?



Sam Collins might be gettable after all.

[GVGjr]

Jon Ralph:

Suns are seen to be "well over the salary cap" and don't want too many high end picks as third and fourth year salaries for them will be around $450,000 a season. Also Bowes wants to play midfield, so that pretty much rules us out I guess?



Sam Collins might be gettable after all.

It doesn't sound like we are interested in getting Bowes but a role on a wing could have been in play.

Collins could be a very solid addition for us.

[westbulldog]

It seems none of our recruiting thus far is about getting "top shelf". We look like getting Jones, Lobb (nowhere near value for money for what he brings imo), Rowe (who can't get a contract with Adelaide) and have extended McComb's contract (?) (not AFL standard). I hope that JJ, Cordy and Crozier all leave as they have offered very little in 2022. I also hope not to hear news that we are offering anything like long term contracts to the likes of Hannan, Martin, Bruce and Vandermeer (whose only contribution in 2022 was a 2nd in the GF sprint yesterday). Collins however would be a good addition imo.

[Mofra]

It seems none of our recruiting thus far is about getting "top shelf". We look like getting Jones, Lobb (nowhere near value for money for what he brings imo), Rowe (who can't get a contract with Adelaide) and have extended McComb's contract (?) (not AFL standard). I hope that JJ, Cordy and Crozier all leave as they have offered very little in 2022. I also hope not to hear news that we are offering anything like long term contracts to the likes of Hannan, Martin, Bruce and Vandermeer (whose only contribution in 2022 was a 2nd in the GF sprint yesterday). Collins however would be a good addition imo.
So - is that actually a bad thing?

Fact is we're not a destination club - so taking 2 x first rounders (and I hope, a 2nd rounder) to draft is great for us.
Swans best player yesterday - Chad Warner - was a 2nd rounder.

Take those picks to draft, take a punt on a small forward with a late pick, rookie a ruck - I'd be very satisfied with our list management work this year.

[GVGjr]

So - is that actually a bad thing?

Fact is we're not a destination club - so taking 2 x first rounders (and I hope, a 2nd rounder) to draft is great for us.
Swans best player yesterday - Chad Warner - was a 2nd rounder.

Take those picks to draft, take a punt on a small forward with a late pick, rookie a ruck - I'd be very satisfied with our list management work this year.

I'm of the same opinion that we need to hit the draft hard this year and try to address some of our needs. It's a strong draft and we could bring in some excellent prospects.

[Bulldog4life]

I'd still hopeful that Keath isn't finished yet so adding Jones should be enough but a competitive player like Collins would be an added bonus.
Not that interested in Tomlinson especially if we are keeping Cordy. I believe Cordy hasn't agreed with us yet and one club has sounded him out. Perhaps all we are doing is ensuring we have options.

Still getting rid of his hangover.

[Bulldog4life]

According to SEN we’ve asked about Jack Madgen from Collingwood

No no no.

[GVGjr]

No no no.

I really don't understand the names we are being linked to. Hopefully it's just speculation by the media

[DOG GOD]

I really don't understand the names we are being linked to. Hopefully it's just speculation by the media

It better be…I don’t want other clubs scraps.

[GVGjr]

It better be…I don’t want other clubs scraps.

I'm not worried about adding someone who isn't being played regularly at another club because sometimes you need to do that from a depth perspective but I doubt if some of the names being mention are an upgrade on Cordy and that isn't great.

Jones, Keath, Gardner, Cordy, O'Brien and Khamis should be sufficient in terms of depth and the challenge for us is to see if we can find upgraded versions of say Cordy.

[Bulldog4life]

I really don't understand the names we are being linked to. Hopefully it's just speculation by the media

Yes I have seen Magden a lot of times play and always wondered how he got a game.A downgrade on Cordy. This time of the year as everyone knows is a lot of guesswork by journalists and on other forums.

[Grantysghost]

I really don't understand the names we are being linked to. Hopefully it's just speculation by the media

It's a little concerning.

The one guy it seems we put all of our resources into was rejected and we've got this plan B?

I won't worry just yet.

[Jasper]

Collins is a good player and would be a great addition to our side but he's their vice captain, hasn't been mentioned at all through any media outlets, and they have no obvious replacements for letting their best defender go.

Collins seems unrealistic but happy to be proven wrong.

Is it worth buying Pick 7 and Bowes? If we combine that with compensation from Dunkley we would go into the draft with a very strong hand.

If we did land someone like Collins then we wouldn't need Cordy.
Collins, Jones, Gardner, Keath and TOB would be more than enough and we would still have Buku and Darcy.
Suns must be in a mess if they need to fire sale Bowes along with a top 10 pick plus consider moving on Collins.
I can't see us having the room for Bowes as a player let alone his bloated contract.

[DOG GOD]

I'm not worried about adding someone who isn't being played regularly at another club because sometimes you need to do that from a depth perspective but I doubt if some of the names being mention are an upgrade on Cordy and that isn't great.

Jones, Keath, Gardner, Cordy, O'Brien and Khamis should be sufficient in terms of depth and the challenge for us is to see if we can find upgraded versions of say Cordy.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we got Collins then Keath might be tapped on the shoulder.
We have enough depth all round, so I don’t see the point of bringing in players unless they are best 26 on our list.

[Swoop]

Did Keath have a bad season or is he cooked?

He fell off a cliff this year but I wonder whether his preseason was compromised and he was chasing form and fitness all year. Can he recapture his 2021 form with the recruitment of Jones?

[GVGjr]

Did Keath have a bad season or is he cooked?

He fell off a cliff this year but I wonder whether his preseason was compromised and he was chasing form and fitness all year. Can he recapture his 2021 form with the recruitment of Jones?

You would hope the club is very aware of whatever challenges he faced this year and if we need to replace him now or if he is likely to bounce back next season.
Could he announce his retirement or could he still be a solid player for us? I'm confident the club will know if they need to plan to cover him next season or not.

[DOG GOD]

Watching him, he looked like a player that knew he was nearing the end. I might be wrong, but geez he looked slow, mainly poor, slow decision making and could hardly get off the ground later in the season.