When do we write off finals?

[Go_Dogs]

History shows that we’re still a chance to make at it 2-4, from memory Sydney made it from 0-6 a few years back, while GWS made it from 0-3 last year.

Obviously a lot needs to change and go right for us to get back to winning games and clawing back the deficit we find ourselves in. But, when do you write the season off and say we can’t make finals? 2-5? 3-7? 4-10?

Bonus question: once we reach that point do we “play the kids” book players in for surgery and begin focussing in the trade and draft period as supports?

[Happy Days]

If we’re sub-500 at the bye.

[Go_Dogs]

If we’re sub-500 at the bye.

Don’t mind it - would be interesting to see the data of bye vs end of season finish and how many teams get there from that position.

[Boots]

I think the stats are less important than the psychology. We don't have track record of turning our bad mindset around - Sydney and GWS both do. We tend to get 'stuck' in bad frames of mind, and this one looks worse than 2017.

[1eyedog]

Trying to catch water at 2/5 in my opinion. We have to try to break even until English and Keath come back.

[Bulldog4life]

Trying to catch water at 2/5 in my opinion. We have to try to break even until English and Keath come back.

Yep if we lose to the Bummers I will be mightily pissed as well as the Woof Forum blowing up to smithereens.

[bornadog]

When it is mathematically impossible I will concede.

In regards to question 2, I would be slowly introducing kids throughout the year to give them a taste, as long as they have some form.

I would like to see, the following play at some stage:

* Bendedo (currently with broken hand)

* Arty Jones

* Cleary

* Parker

Don't know if Darcy can recover, and Raak needs to show a lot more.

I think Buku will play sooner rather than later.

[G-Mo77]

I've written off finals already. Lots of other teams have worked hard to improve, we rested and thought it would just come. I don't think our list is in very good shape, I don't think we're mentally strong enough and I really don't think we're good enough. I can't see our team flicking a switch and turning it on and can't see our coaches being able to change things around to get us out of the hole we're in.

[DOG GOD]

I've written off finals already. Lots of other teams have worked hard to improve, we rested and thought it would just come. I don't think our list is in very good shape, I don't think we're mentally strong enough and I really don't think we're good enough. I can't see our team flicking a switch and turning it on and can't see our coaches being able to change things around to get us out of the hole we're in.
Agree with this…2022 is a write off.

[Mantis]

I've written off finals already. Lots of other teams have worked hard to improve, we rested and thought it would just come. I don't think our list is in very good shape, I don't think we're mentally strong enough and I really don't think we're good enough. I can't see our team flicking a switch and turning it on and can't see our coaches being able to change things around to get us out of the hole we're in.


Agree with this…2022 is a write off.

I'm as pessimistic as they come with regard to our performances which have been ordinary to say the least, but there is no way at all that you can write off the season after just 6 games.

The injuries we have are to players who crucial to our teams performance and we simply don't have other players ready to go to play the role as effectively as the players they're replacing.

I'm still hopeful that we can get ourselves ahead of the ledger in terms of W/L by the time we hit the bye and if/when we have close to a full list to select from we can put our best foot forward.

[DOG GOD]

I'm as pessimistic as they come with regard to our performances which have been ordinary to say the least, but there is no way at all that you can write off the season after just 6 games.

The injuries we have are to players who crucial to our teams performance and we simply don't have other players ready to go to play the role as effectively as the players they're replacing.

I'm still hopeful that we can get ourselves ahead of the ledger in terms of W/L by the time we hit the bye and if/when we have close to a full list to select from we can put our best foot forward.

Well, the thing for me is that we just don’t have that many players playing to their potential. If MCComb is getting a game then the cupboard is bare. Yeah, we can talk about JJ, English, Bruce, Keath etc etc but what if we can’t win a game while they are out? We will get them back eventually, but that won’t be any good if we are 4-8 when it happens.

[Mantis]

Well, the thing for me is that we just don’t have that many players playing to their potential. If MCComb is getting a game then the cupboard is bare. Yeah, we can talk about JJ, English, Bruce, Keath etc etc but what if we can’t win a game while they are out? We will get them back eventually, but that won’t be any good if we are 4-8 when it happens.

We have like 10 players out injured/unavailable at present so if any of JJ, VDM, Garcia, Hunter or Wallis are able to be selected then McComb doesn't play.... but to be fair to McComb he was next in line.

Agree that we have lots of players down on form, maybe because they're carrying a niggle or down on confidence, but it's a fickle game so it can come back quickly.

[MrMahatma]

I'm as pessimistic as they come with regard to our performances which have been ordinary to say the least, but there is no way at all that you can write off the season after just 6 games.

The injuries we have are to players who crucial to our teams performance and we simply don't have other players ready to go to play the role as effectively as the players they're replacing.

I'm still hopeful that we can get ourselves ahead of the ledger in terms of W/L by the time we hit the bye and if/when we have close to a full list to select from we can put our best foot forward.

I agree with this, apart from being a pessimist. Broadly I’m an optimist, so maybe that means I won’t give up until we legit can’t make it, or maybe even 2 weeks after

[DOG GOD]

We have like 10 players out injured/unavailable at present so if any of JJ, VDM, Garcia, Hunter or Wallis are able to be selected then McComb doesn't play.... but to be fair to McComb he was next in line.

Agree that we have lots of players down on form, maybe because they're carrying a niggle or down on confidence, but it's a fickle game so it can come back quickly.

Well I truly hope you’re closer to the mark than me.

[Eastdog]

I’m not giving up hope just yet. Will see how we go over the next couple of weeks.

[azabob]

Agree with this…2022 is a write off.

DG this gives me comfort, if you were optimistic I’d be concerned!!

[GVGjr]

There is a swag of winnable games in front of us, by the end of May we will know what we are up aginst

[Eastdog]

There is a swag of winnable games in front of us, by the end of May we will know what we are up aginst

I’m with you on this GVGjr. Still a lot to play out before we pull the pin.

[Grantysghost]

There is a swag of winnable games in front of us, by the end of May we will know what we are up aginst

It's over GVG. Stop being logical.

[G-Mo77]

There is a swag of winnable games in front of us, by the end of May we will know what we are up aginst

The next 6 weeks we have the Bombers who I can't see us beating, I'm trying but I just can't see it, Port Adelaide over there, not a certainty, Magpies at the G, Gold Coast at Marvel, West Coast over there and Geelong.

2 - 4 IMO. We'll roll Gold Coast and maybe knock over the Eagles.

[Grantysghost]

The next 6 weeks we have the Bombers who I can't see us beating, I'm trying but I just can't see it, Port Adelaide over there, not a certainty, Magpies at the G, Gold Coast at Marvel, West Coast over there and Geelong.

2 - 4 IMO. We'll roll Gold Coast and maybe knock over the Eagles.

I'm the other way 4-2

West Coast, Essendon, suns and pies I think we will win.

Pies is a 50/50 so maybe 3-3

[G-Mo77]

I'm the other way 4-2

West Coast, Essendon, suns and pies I think we will win.

Pies is a 50/50 so maybe 3-3

If all else fails I want that Essendon one. That will pretty much put their supporters right on the edge of a cliff.

A Cody Weightman free in front of goal to seal the game would be perfect. That would put me in a good mod for the rest of the season.

[Grantysghost]

If all else fails I want that Essendon one. That will pretty much put their supporters right on the edge of a cliff.

A Cody Weightman free in front of goal to seal the game would be perfect. That would put me in a good mod for the rest of the season.

Oh that's just bliss.

I was at the pre season game at the shit hole I mean hangar and it was putrid what he was copping.

Same at the Crows game on the weekend was standing with some dons fans who were part of the group I was with (I hadn't met them before) and they were salty re cody.

Everytime he went near it id say surely that's a free to Weightman.

I could feel their blood pressure rising.

[bornadog]

The next 6 weeks we have the Bombers who I can't see us beating, I'm trying but I just can't see it, Port Adelaide over there, not a certainty, Magpies at the G, Gold Coast at Marvel, West Coast over there and Geelong.

2 - 4 IMO. We'll roll Gold Coast and maybe knock over the Eagles.

Pies will be at Marvel, not G

[hujsh]

Aside from finals I think top 4 and a realistic shot at a premiership are probably out of reach now. This list on paper should be good enough to compete so maybe it's a case of loading up and preparing what we have to for next year. Does that mean we play Mara so he gets chemistry with Naughton? Probably. Maybe Bont misses some games to freshen back up. At a certain point maybe we commit to Khamis as a forward/ruck and see how he goes.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

End of May.

I think we'll probably fall into the 8, but the question is... Do we want to? Call me devils advocate but I think we benefit more from an earlier swag of draft picks and resetting for next year.

We aren't challenging Melbourne or Brisbane, so I'm not in the business of making up numbers. The club can't say this of course, but I think we need to fix our issues before we reload. Making the 8 would be papering over some bloody big cracks.

[Testekill]

I'm as pessimistic as they come with regard to our performances which have been ordinary to say the least, but there is no way at all that you can write off the season after just 6 games.


I'll concede that we've had shocking injury luck but we're way behind the 8 ball now. It'll be extremely difficult if we even sniff finals, I'd rather drop down instead of being a 9-13 team.

[Grantysghost]

I'll concede that we've had shocking injury luck but we're way behind the 8 ball now. It'll be extremely difficult if we even sniff finals, I'd rather drop down instead of being a 9-13 team.

Is it luck though?

We always have a huge injury list. I'm not saying there's a problem with our fitness people, I'm just raising it as a discussion point.

Surely a review is the least we can do.

Clearly I realise there is an element of luck involved.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Just to add on, it's interesting that Bevo referenced a need to developing some of the younger talent which may not be ready at present. Pretty sure he mentioned Marra and McNeil.

I don't disagree with it, but at the start of the year the talk was we needed to make top 4 and contend. Now it's a bit of development. You need to continue shifting the goal posts throughout a year because it's never stagnant but maybe it's an insight into his thinking, that we aren't the top side we wanted to be, and development (i.e. Marra) will be our priority.

[Grantysghost]

Just to add on, it's interesting that Bevo referenced a need to developing some of the younger talent which may not be ready at present. Pretty sure he mentioned Marra and McNeil.

I don't disagree with it, but at the start of the year the talk was we needed to make top 4 and contend. Now it's a bit of development. You need to continue shifting the goal posts throughout a year because it's never stagnant but maybe it's an insight into his thinking, that we aren't the top side we wanted to be, and development (i.e. Marra) will be our priority.

He was very strong on it being the time for us to be a consistent success based side.

If he's changing that after 6 rounds then I'm unsure what the plan is.

The excuse for years was how young we were.
From season launch :

Luke Beveridge has challenged his players to become revolutionaries in the Western Bulldogs’ quest for sustained success to become the benchmark club in the AFL.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/beveridge-plots-revolutionary-road-for-bulldogs-20220228-p5a0fg.html

[whythelongface]

There is a swag of winnable games in front of us, by the end of May we will know what we are up aginst

Agree. There are some worrying signs but think we will start a number of games together soon. We will ride the momentum and make the 8. Probably not top 4 though.

[MrMahatma]

Just to add on, it's interesting that Bevo referenced a need to developing some of the younger talent which may not be ready at present. Pretty sure he mentioned Marra and McNeil.

I don't disagree with it, but at the start of the year the talk was we needed to make top 4 and contend. Now it's a bit of development. You need to continue shifting the goal posts throughout a year because it's never stagnant but maybe it's an insight into his thinking, that we aren't the top side we wanted to be, and development (i.e. Marra) will be our priority.

He said we need to stick with the youth we’re playing cause the guys at VFL level aren’t up to it. He wasn’t suggesting it’s a development year, just that our depth of actual talent is essentially exhausted and the young players in the AFL team are talented… but young.

[MrMahatma]

I'm the other way 4-2

West Coast, Essendon, suns and pies I think we will win.

Pies is a 50/50 so maybe 3-3

Bombers isn’t a great match up with no English or Keath. Draper and 2MP may have another day out. Parish is 50/50 to play by the looks and the midfield battle is going to be our only real chance to cause pain. Unless JUH has a breakout… which he could. Would be nice given Ess were into him last year.

[FrediKanoute]

I think this week's game is the marker. Mathematically we could still make the 8, but losing to a team who has won a single game all season on top of losing to Adelaide and playing awfully against the Tigers suggests otherwise.

We wont concede from here, but unless we get on a run of form and win the next 4 or 5 we wont play a meaningful role in the finals.

[Daughter of the West]

I've written off finals already. Lots of other teams have worked hard to improve, we rested and thought it would just come. I don't think our list is in very good shape, I don't think we're mentally strong enough and I really don't think we're good enough. I can't see our team flicking a switch and turning it on and can't see our coaches being able to change things around to get us out of the hole we're in.

I'm calling that we're done.

But in saying that, I am a well known pessimist, I am in the middle of a two week uni exam period, I had gastro last week, my 3 year old got COVID this week and we're now cancelling our long weekend holiday this weekend as a result. I'm probably not the person to ask!

[Danjul]

He said we need to stick with the youth we’re playing cause the guys at VFL level aren’t up to it. He wasn’t suggesting it’s a development year, just that our depth of actual talent is essentially exhausted and the young players in the AFL team are talented… but young.
I don’t see someone who can’t score at least a behind from 20 metres as talented. I saw Khamis kick a goal from 50 so he is talented.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I don’t see someone who can’t score at least a behind from 20 metres as talented. I saw Khamis kick a goal from 50 so he is talented.

Tongue in cheek I suspect, but I'm far from convinced on McNeil - he's been pretty poor so far this year.

[chef]

Finals are already a pipe dream for mine. Yeah we could still make it but I haven't seen anything this season to suggest we will. Something not right at our club atm.

[GVGjr]

I get that the warning signs are flashing and I might have more blind faith than foresight but I think we are just a couple of wins away from getting back on track. I like the next run of games for us.

[bornadog]

Something not right at our club atm.

You have said this a few times. Are you talking about the Admin, the footy department, or a specific area?

[soupman]

Finals definitely not out of the question, and with Beveridge we just have to make them to be a chance. I am as pissed off as anybody that again we are not going to be a top four side but more than any other side we are a chance to capture lightning again when it matters.

Next few games are huge, both in their importance and actual winnabality. As bad as we have been, we have arguably been the better side in 4 of our games with goalkicking letting us down, and last week's game was terrible but we only lost by a point.

Essendon, Port and West Coast are probably the 3 most dissapointing sides this year (aside from us), and our performances have been significantly better than all of theirs. Gold Coast too is very winnable, and Collingwood are going well but I wouldn't call them good. We could conceivably win all 5 of our next games, I don't see a reason we can't, but 3-4 wins would be sufficient to put us right back in the mix especially as by then we get some key players back.

[Bulldog4life]

There is a swag of winnable games in front of us, by the end of May we will know what we are up aginst

Yep agree G. We have proved we can get on a winning run and as our injured players start trickling back into our team we should be ok. Happy to win anyway we can why we wait for them to return.

[chef]

You have said this a few times. Are you talking about the Admin, the footy department, or a specific area?

Obviously all we can go one is what we see the players producing, we've gone from arguably the 2nd best team in the comp to someone who looks like missing the finals within 6 games. I get some just want to be positive but do you think all is rosy atm?

[bornadog]

Obviously all we can go one is what we see the players producing, we've gone from arguably the 2nd best team in the comp to someone who looks like missing the finals within 6 games. I get some just want to be positive but do you think all is rosy atm?

My Summary looking at positives

Melbourne - better than us at moment, however, we are only team to kick 8 in a row, then Bont injured and we looked poor
Carlton - 2.7 in last with 5 set shots from inside 40m lost by 12 points
Sydney - they have only lost 1 game to us.
Richmond - kicking 7.19 didn't help our chances
North - they aren't much chop but we thrashed them
Adelaide - 1 point game with key players out

Injuries to English, Keath, VDM, JJ, Hannan on top of Bruce and Mclean has stretched us.

Glass half full - yes I am :)

[josie]

I'm calling that we're done.

But in saying that, I am a well known pessimist, I am in the middle of a two week uni exam period, I had gastro last week, my 3 year old got COVID this week and we're now cancelling our long weekend holiday this weekend as a result. I'm probably not the person to ask!

Sheesh, that’s a bag full of s**tfull ness for sure, hang in there DoW.

I waiver b/w optimism & pessimism. Is that the very definition of realism?

One thing I can say, our club is still in a good position compared to decades gone by. I’m hoping in future years Darcy and Marra prove their worth and we are on the improve again. Bruce coming back fitter & stronger will put a spring in everyone’s step and the good form JJ showed later last season in front half will be great too. Go Dogs!!

[azabob]

Surely we still play finals?

Injuries have played a huge part in our predicament.

Coupled with underwhelming performances with majority of our topline players.

Form and attitude we can fix; I'm backing Beveridge and the team in to turn it around.

The big watch for me over the next few weeks; is what Beveridge says and what he doesn't say during his press conferences.

[Danjul]

My Summary looking at positives

Melbourne - better than us at moment, however, we are only team to kick 8 in a row, then Bont injured and we looked poor
Carlton - 2.7 in last with 5 set shots from inside 40m lost by 12 points
Sydney - they have only lost 1 game to us.
Richmond - kicking 7.19 didn't help our chances
North - they aren't much chop but we thrashed them
Adelaide - 1 point game with key players out

Injuries to English, Keath, VDM, JJ, Hannan on top of Bruce and Mclean has stretched us.

Glass half full - yes I am :)
I don’t see it as‘glass half full’ at all. The glass is cracked and needs to be replaced.

We have had a total of 73 goals kicked against us. An average of 12 a game so I think the backline is doing very well despite injuries. That’s match winning stuff.

Three of the four teams that have beaten us have percentages way below 100. So, generally speaking, they are not doing particularly well and only look good because they defeated us. So why did they defeat us?

Poorly performing forward line. Take out the North game and they have been terrible. Why? Total absence of tactics. Everyone heads into the left forward pocket and the midfielders with the ball try to bounce it off the roof. Naughton has to beat at least two defenders and often two teammates. That congestion causes injuries and reduces output.

So what does the new glass look like? A better game plan for the front half.

The game plan for the back half could be more attacking (less of the sideways and backwards stuff) but that’s not destroying the chances of finals at the moment.

[Mofra]

Post - Adelaide game it's line ball for me.
Lose this week and I'd put a line though our season.

"We have injuries" - well, we deliberately went thin in key parts of the ground and now it's hurting us. That's not bad luck, that's on our list management to not adequately prepare for contingencies such as this.
There's nothing to say that when Bruce, JJ, Keath and English do come back we don't have other injuries to contend with. West Coast won a flag with NicNat and Gaff out.

For anyone pointing to specifics, it's really "the vibe". We had it last year, we don't this year.

The players remaining in the side aren't the 'self-sacrifice' types every team needs, and the playing group now seem to be in self-preservation mode. Hannan is injured, ditto VDM, and Roarke dropped - and they are arguably the 3 guys who sacrifice their own games the most. That has an impact too.

[Go_Dogs]

For anyone pointing to specifics, it's really "the vibe". We had it last year, we don't this year.

The players remaining in the side aren't the 'self-sacrifice' types every team needs, and the playing group now seem to be in self-preservation mode. Hannan is injured, ditto VDM, and Roarke dropped - and they are arguably the 3 guys who sacrifice their own games the most. That has an impact too.

That’s a really great call. We’re light on for our “honest” players that do their role team first week in week out. Scott, McNeil, Libba, Gardner - we’ve got quite a few of them in our best 22 now but are missing those you mention more than I think we as supporters would be prepared to concede.

[Danjul]

Post - Adelaide game it's line ball for me.
Lose this week and I'd put a line though our season.

"We have injuries" - well, we deliberately went thin in key parts of the ground and now it's hurting us. That's not bad luck, that's on our list management to not adequately prepare for contingencies such as this.
There's nothing to say that when Bruce, JJ, Keath and English do come back we don't have other injuries to contend with. West Coast won a flag with NicNat and Gaff out.

For anyone pointing to specifics, it's really "the vibe". We had it last year, we don't this year.

The players remaining in the side aren't the 'self-sacrifice' types every team needs, and the playing group now seem to be in self-preservation mode. Hannan is injured, ditto VDM, and Roarke dropped - and they are arguably the 3 guys who sacrifice their own games the most. That has an impact too.
We won games last year when English was out (concussion I think) and we won the Preliminary Final without Keath. VDM , Hannan hasn’t been in good form. The finals will be accessible if we use the players we have sensibly.

[DOG GOD]

DG this gives me comfort, if you were optimistic I’d be concerned!!

I always had a feeling we would struggle this year, especially with the ruck set up, and more so if English and Keath were out for long periods. With the injuries and the fact we have a handful of players close to playing potential, I think it will be a massive struggle.

[Grantysghost]

We won games last year when English was out (concussion I think) and we won the Preliminary Final without Keath. VDM , Hannan hasn’t been in good form. The finals will be accessible if we use the players we have sensibly.

Finals aren't gone clearly. Top 4 is.

We know this group, a lot of talent but when things aren't going their way they tend to struggle.

If we lose this week then finals are probably at risk.

[Grantysghost]

I always had a feeling we would struggle this year, especially with the ruck set up, and more so if English and Keath were out for long periods. With the injuries and the fact we have a handful of players close to playing potential, I think it will be a massive struggle.

It's a tight competition. If you're off by 10 percent for whatever reason you're in strife.

[DOG GOD]

It's a tight competition. If you're off by 10 percent for whatever reason you're in strife.
That is true, but we just don’t seem to playing a team brand of football, and that’s a concern.

[SonofScray]

We’ve made it very hard from here.

I think finals are off the table if we lose this weekend. We’ve been poor, but also a bit stiff. I’ve been a harsh critic the past few years and none of what I am seeing feels new, just that the margins are swinging away from us at the moment. The problem is that we’ve given the league a real good look at the formula for rolling us. A big run home will need a shift in personnel and strategy.

[Sedat]

Let's not mince words. If we miss finals in 2022, it's a very poor indictment on the playing group and coaching staff, as well as list management. The level of talent is more than enough to be a top 8 team, irrespective of injury and personnel issues.

Under Bevo, we have basically followed the Clarkson Hawthorn blueprint - win a flag ahead of schedule in 2008, dip in 2009, build back up in 2010/2011 with a view to contending from 2012 to 2015. We similarly won ahead of schedule in 2016, dipped in 2017/2018 (one extra year dip but we were much younger than the Hawks at the corresponding stage), built back up in 2019/2020 with a view to contending from 2021 to 2024 (hopefully longer as we are younger than the 3-peat Hawks team). They aren't my words, they are straight from Bevo's mouth - after we lost the 2020 EF, he indicated how impatient he was for sustained success.

If we do not contend this year it is nothing less than a failure of list management, coaching, player development (or a combination of all 3). If we are honest with ourselves, we need to acknowledge this otherwise we will never address the root causes and swiftly change course. I'm still confident the club will rise to the challenge for the remainder of the season (and beyond), and don't yet subscribe to the self-defeatism of writing off this season after a bit of turbulence.

[Danjul]

We’ve made it very hard from here.

I think finals are off the table if we lose this weekend. We’ve been poor, but also a bit stiff. I’ve been a harsh critic the past few years and none of what I am seeing feels new, just that the margins are swinging away from us at the moment. The problem is that we’ve given the league a real good look at the formula for rolling us. A big run home will need a shift in personnel and strategy.

At the end of round 20 last year we were top of the ladder with both the highest points and percentage. This was achieved After defeating Melbourne who are widely acknowledged as the team of the millennium.

What has changed to put us in the present predicament? This conversation shouldn’t be happening. It is not the players.

What are the common threads in losing 7 of 9 home and away games? Which were absent in the three finals wins.

It is the change in how the players are used. We have gone away from specialist ruck and three tall targets with a return to the old ‘anyone can do anything’ philosophy. The root cause of the current malaise is the ruck at centre bounce.

Fix it. The midfielders will straighten up, the forwards will get their mojo back, the defenders will be under less pressure.

Oh, sorry. I forgot that as a club we don’t believe that ruck is relevant in the modern game.

Relevant to this game: Essendon got 6 goals 3 behinds from centre bounces to topple us from top spot last year. So what is plan B for this weekend? Cordy.

[bornadog]

The root cause of the current malaise is the ruck at centre bounce.

This is incorrect. We may lose tap outs but we are 4th in the AFL for centre clearances.

[Danjul]

This is incorrect. We may lose tap outs but we are 4th in the AFL for centre clearances.
But the clean tapouts the opposition gets cancel a lot of the benefits.

Look at the Essendon game. 9 clean clearances from centre to goal line for 39 points. (AFL website) I’m sure we lost that game by less than that. And we probably won the clearance stat.

It’s the quality of the clearances and a lot of ours are East-West. A specialist bounce ruckman gives North-South.

And they don’t need many to swing a game.

edit: I checked. We lost the hitouts 48:27 and the clearances 47:21 and we lost by 13. So we made up 26 points but it wasn’t enough to counter the ‘quality’ ruck clearances.

[Bullies]

I think Bevo wrote off the year after selection tonight.

Stop playing these "project" players he loves. For some reason he doesn't want to be proven wrong. R Smith/McComb are just no good. They take the spot of a youngster who we could be bringing through the system.

Vanders and Smith were dropped for poor form and then got injured but then come straight back in. Go figure.

[FrediKanoute]

Let's not mince words. If we miss finals in 2022, it's a very poor indictment on the playing group and coaching staff, as well as list management. The level of talent is more than enough to be a top 8 team, irrespective of injury and personnel issues.

Under Bevo, we have basically followed the Clarkson Hawthorn blueprint - win a flag ahead of schedule in 2008, dip in 2009, build back up in 2010/2011 with a view to contending from 2012 to 2015. We similarly won ahead of schedule in 2016, dipped in 2017/2018 (one extra year dip but we were much younger than the Hawks at the corresponding stage), built back up in 2019/2020 with a view to contending from 2021 to 2024 (hopefully longer as we are younger than the 3-peat Hawks team). They aren't my words, they are straight from Bevo's mouth - after we lost the 2020 EF, he indicated how impatient he was for sustained success.

If we do not contend this year it is nothing less than a failure of list management, coaching, player development (or a combination of all 3). If we are honest with ourselves, we need to acknowledge this otherwise we will never address the root causes and swiftly change course. I'm still confident the club will rise to the challenge for the remainder of the season (and beyond), and don't yet subscribe to the self-defeatism of writing off this season after a bit of turbulence.

Spot on - it would be awful to look back on this period and realised we had wasted the talents of the players we have, especially in an era where there hasn;t been a dominant team (i know the Tigers won 3 GF, but to be honest they were waiting for someone like us to challenge them!). I don't think its that the players haven't developed, I think its more that by chopping and changing positions no one settles into a role.

This week is a prime example - drop JUH - ok he has struggled and maybe a bit of confidence at VFL will help. Drop Schache - why - it leaves the team unbalanced and the guy went forward and snagged a coupleof goals last week. If we miss finals its because we created problems by over comlicating things.

[Sedat]

Stop playing these "project" players he loves. For some reason he doesn't want to be proven wrong. R Smith/McComb are just no good. They take the spot of a youngster who we could be bringing through the system.
Roarke cops a lot for someone who was effectively the 44th player selected on the list last year. He is selfless to a fault, adequately performs the role asked of him and has a team-first ethos, something always welcome. He is the least of our problems, and we won't be winning or losing on Sunday because of him.

Who is currently bashing the door down at Footscray to play the defensive wing role?

[FrediKanoute]

Roarke cops a lot for someone who was effectively the 44th player selected on the list last year. He is selfless to a fault, adequately performs the role asked of him and has a team-first ethos, something always welcome. He is the least of our problems, and we won't be winning or losing on Sunday because of him.

Who is currently bashing the door down at Footscray to play the defensive wing role?

I have less problems with Rourke coming in than say Vanders. I have a bigger problem with dropping Schache and JUH as that means structurally we have one marking forward in the F50. I do have an issue though with West being regularly overlooked and I think Khamis should have been rewarded (especially in light of the JUH/Schache) decisions.

Overall though how we have gotten ourselves to the point where we are picking such an unbalanced team is really beyond me. Pound for pound our list is 10 goals better than Essendon's, but they will win because they have picked a team that is overall much more balanced.,

[Happy Days]

Roarke cops a lot for someone who was effectively the 44th player selected on the list last year. He is selfless to a fault, adequately performs the role asked of him and has a team-first ethos, something always welcome. He is the least of our problems, and we won't be winning or losing on Sunday because of him.

Who is currently bashing the door down at Footscray to play the defensive wing role?

Roarke is completely fine. Agree with this 100%

[Happy Days]

Now hehe.

[whythelongface]

I am not sure we write off Finals just yet. It will be difficult given our draw, but if we get Bruce back it will make our structure so much better. Thus still a chance to win another 7 or 8 games - which should be enough. Mind you if we do make Finals think we will be making up numbers.

Really need to start planning for 2023 and beyond. Sad to say when this season had so much promise.

[GVGjr]

I am not sure we write off Finals just yet. It will be difficult given our draw, but if we get Bruce back it will make our structure so much better. Thus still a chance to win another 7 or 8 games - which should be enough. Mind you if we do make Finals think we will be making up numbers.

Really need to start planning for 2023 and beyond. Sad to say when this season had so much promise.

Way too early to be considering it but like you right at this moment I'm not convinced how we would perform any way.
Things can change quickly though.

[SonofScray]

Finals are gone. I had Geelong and a Sydney as the two to shake out of the tree and wins against them would have been gold. Think we’ve stuffed it.

[Rocco Jones]

Easier to give up hope sometimes and I don't blame anyone for doing that. Very tough to be a passionate fan of the Doggies this year. We are definitely 'some' chance now but yeah, it's been so frustrating.

[Bulldog Joe]

It has been a frustrating year.

Chris Scott clearly had Geelong better prepared for us. Bevo needs to lift his game.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Scaredy cats.
We give up on finals when we are on our last legs.

[1eyedog]

We're a 50/50 chance of playing finals but won't make a dent if we get there.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Does anyone think the hammering Melbourne gave us has effected us in any way?

I recall Port being spooked after Geelong smashed them in 07.

I wonder if we have any mental scars as a group?

[GVGjr]

Does anyone think the hammering Melbourne gave us has effected us in any way?

I recall Port being spooked after Geelong smashed them in 07.

I wonder if we have any mental scars as a group?

It's a fair call but in the industry the players are in they tend to get over things quickly.
It was really just a bad 40 minutes and it shouldn't have scared the players.

[G-Mo77]

Does anyone think the hammering Melbourne gave us has effected us in any way?

I recall Port being spooked after Geelong smashed them in 07.

I wonder if we have any mental scars as a group?

I talk about this with mates when talking footy. It's possible, much like Port. I think we left a sting in their backside as well.

[azabob]

Season is done.

Will finish with 11-12 wins and miss finals.

Should've been primed to win Friday night and didn't deliver when it mattered.

[MrMahatma]

It's not over, but it's not going to be easy to get there. Will need a few scalps and Brisbane, Freo, Sydney & Cats on their home decks. Hawks in Tas. Even GWS away. Lots of travel.

I guess if we make it, we'll be in good form so there's that.

Crazy that halfway through the season we're 50/50 of making the finals. What a disaster!

[boydogs]

We should be 8-6 and in the 8 after round 15, playing two sides out of the 8. Not out of it yet. Lot of injured players have come back since we were 3-5

[AshMac]

Does anyone think the hammering Melbourne gave us has effected us in any way?

I recall Port being spooked after Geelong smashed them in 07.

I wonder if we have any mental scars as a group?

I think it most definitely has had an impact. There was something up at the club toward the back half of last year. Those 3 final rounds of last H&A season were telling.

I think a couple of players that had stinkers in the GF are taking a long time to find form again