West Coast set to launch an ‘all-out’ trade assault for a star ruck ... and it has a ‘Plan B’

[bornadog]

Link (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/west-coast-eagles/afl-trade-news-rumours-whispers-2022-tim-english-west-coast-eagles-launch-all-out-assault-luke-jackson-contract/news-story/dbdc16b9da7aad944cc6f62a7cab8408)

https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/a7ae0cea1c11e5e4c07f68f0b2300687

West Coast has launched an “all-out” assault for one of the game’s hottest young rucks, according to the Herald Sun’s Jon Ralph, who also reports the club has a back-up plan in case its bid for Tim English falls through.

But four-time Power best and fairest winner Kane Cornes believes the Eagles “cannot responsibly” consider trading for Melbourne’s Luke Jackson given its list predicament.

The Eagles on Friday night slumped to 1-6 after copping a 109-point defeat at the hands of Richmond – the club’s fourth loss by over 55 points so far this season – prompting pundits and fans to look towards what the Eagles will do in the off-season.

Speaking on Fox Footy on Friday night — and expanding on his Herald Sun story — Ralph said the Eagles had strong interest in both 24-year-old English and 20-year-old Jackson, who are both out of contract at season’s end after being drafted out of Western Australia.

“The Eagles have launched an all-out assault on Western Bulldogs ruckman Tim English – and they have a Plan B as well,” Ralph reported on Fox Footy.

“They believe English is a successor to Nic Naitanui – he’s 32 next Wednesday, he’s out of contract. (But) my understanding is he’ll sign a one-year deal at the end of the season

“They (the Eagles) have gone to Melbourne to watch English, they think at times he’s going to say yes to them. Here’s the problem: He will meet his management stable next Monday. He’s happy, he’s playing pure ruck and doing it well

“I think the strong indication now after he postponed talks is he’ll stay at the Western Bulldogs. That would mean those talks will start soon.

“So what that happens then? They will put all their eggs in the Luke Jackson basket – the Melbourne third-year ruckman.

“They have the cap space if the deal is back-ended, they can offer all the opportunity he wants as early as 2024, he is extremely close to his family.

“He hasn’t made a decision to go, but he certainly hasn’t made a decision to stay either.

“Jackson would get massive money anyway, but how would he even get to West Coast? He’s not going to get there through the pre-season draft, but that could potentially be used as leverage – that’s a long way down the track.

“But he hasn’t made a decision, he’s in no hurry, he certainly has committed to staying yet.”

Essendon legend Matthew Lloyd last month declared Jackson, 20, could be the “hottest property” in the game by mid-season.

But Cornes said it would be irresponsible if West Coast offered Jackson a multimillion-dollar contract at, what now appears to be, the start of a rebuild.

“Do you (target) Luke Jackson now considering he’s not a free agent, he’s going to cost you … two top-10 picks (at least) … and he’s going to cost you $1 million a year for a player who isn’t playing like a $1 million dollars?” Cornes asked on SEN’s Crunch Time on Saturday.

“You cannot responsibly do that deal, I don’t think, if you’re West Coast if you’re rebuilding.

“I wouldn’t be doing (the) Luke Jackson (deal) — no way.”

Melbourne champion Garry Lyon said the Demons were “very confident” Jackson would stay – at least in the short-term.

“At some stage he may be going back to Western Australia,” Lyon told Fox Footy on Friday night. “But if you’re that young man now in this situation, playing behind Max Gawn who’ll be transitioning out over the next two years so Luke Jackson becomes the 60-40 (ruckman), a team in a window … my great hope is he would stay, maybe pinch one or two premierships.

“If he’s going to be offered the sort of money he’s being offered now, another two years down the track under Max in this very good footy side – if it’s about money, he’s only going to be offered more.”

[MrMahatma]

We need to keep Chilli.

Need to. End of.

[GVGjr]

We need to keep Chilli.

Need to. End of.

100% agree and with our lack of depth at the ruck position we are massively at risk and I suspect we will need to play overs to keep him.

[Grantysghost]

100% agree and with our lack of depth at the ruck position we are massively at risk and I suspect we will need to play overs to keep him.

There's what 2 good Rucks on big money.

You just need an average ruck.

If Tim wants to go and we leverage that for an average ruck and something else like a small forward perfect.

Use it wisely.

This is the way

[MrMahatma]

There's what 2 good Rucks on big money.

You just need an average ruck.

If Tim wants to go and we leverage that for an average ruck and something else like a small forward perfect.

Use it wisely.

This is the way

You prob need an “above average” ruck. Plus, that’s ok if other parts of the team are above average / elite.

If you’re saying that the best rucks don’t win flags, you’re right I guess cause Grundy, Natanui and Gawn have 1(?) between them.

That’s why list management is a tough gig and also, why, you need a strategy to match your style of play and not leave you exposed to 1 or 2 injuries.

[comrade]

There's what 2 good Rucks on big money.

You just need an average ruck.

If Tim wants to go and we leverage that for an average ruck and something else like a small forward perfect.

Use it wisely.

This is the way

This trade period could force us to re-balance the list in spite of ourselves. We are quite possibly losing English, Dunkley and maybe even Bazlenka.

My preference is to keep Timmy and Baz but if we do lose them, we simply MUST bring in 1 mature ready to go ruck (Pittonet/Flynn type level is ok), a viable 2nd ruck type, a first choice KPD and a best 18 forward with goal kicking credentials.

Losing Timmy would be a gut punch though.

[MrMahatma]

What makes you think we’ll lose Baz?

I reckon we’ll keep Tim and Baz, lose Dunks and prob a couple others seeking opportunities elsewhere (Wallis, West for eg)

[comrade]

What makes you think we’ll lose Baz?

I reckon we’ll keep Tim and Baz, lose Dunks and prob a couple others seeking opportunities elsewhere (Wallis, West for eg)

I think other clubs will offer him a lot more money and off field opportunities.

[Grantysghost]

You prob need an “above average” ruck. Plus, that’s ok if other parts of the team are above average / elite.

If you’re saying that the best rucks don’t win flags, you’re right I guess cause Grundy, Natanui and Gawn have 1(?) between them.

That’s why list management is a tough gig and also, why, you need a strategy to match your style of play and not leave you exposed to 1 or 2 injuries.

I meant a good solid ruck type. Tigers had Nankervis and he's no star.

[Happy Days]

Can’t lose him. As was proven last week he’s gotten so good that he’s actually the difference between winning and losing.

[comrade]

Can’t lose him. As was proven last week he’s gotten so good that he’s actually the difference between winning and losing.

Yeah, pretty much. He’s probably going to get even better over the next few years too.

[DOG GOD]

This trade period could force us to re-balance the list in spite of ourselves. We are quite possibly losing English, Dunkley and maybe even Bazlenka.

My preference is to keep Timmy and Baz but if we do lose them, we simply MUST bring in 1 mature ready to go ruck (Pittonet/Flynn type level is ok), a viable 2nd ruck type, a first choice KPD and a best 18 forward with goal kicking credentials.

Losing Timmy would be a gut punch though.

If we lost English, Baz and Dunks then we aren’t making finals for the next 5 years.

[mjp]

Perhaps West Coast really haven't learned anything from the Tim Kelly trade.

I guess we are about to find out.

[FrediKanoute]

I agree we need to keep the big Chilli, but I would trade him for 2 first round picks

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I agree we need to keep the big Chilli, but I would trade him for 2 first round picks

End of last year I was open to trading him. With the improvement we've seen now, not so much but you raise an interesting point.

What's the point at which we say yes? Top 3 pick? Two first round picks, one of which is in the top 10?

[Mofra]

This trade period could force us to re-balance the list in spite of ourselves. We are quite possibly losing English, Dunkley and maybe even Bazlenka.

My preference is to keep Timmy and Baz but if we do lose them, we simply MUST bring in 1 mature ready to go ruck (Pittonet/Flynn type level is ok), a viable 2nd ruck type, a first choice KPD and a best 18 forward with goal kicking credentials.

Losing Timmy would be a gut punch though.
I think we keep Baz and Dunkley, but lose a 'next tier' type to do it (Williams) and 1-2 players starved of opportunity (e.g. West).

[EasternWest]

I think we keep Baz and Dunkley, but lose a 'next tier' type to do it (Williams) and 1-2 players starved of opportunity (e.g. West).

I'm fine with that.

[Axe Man]

How do West Coast get the pick(s) to satisfy us if an English trade did eventuate?

Currently it looks like they will have pick 1 or 2, which teams traditionally are very hesitant to touch. They need a complete re-build, surely they would be nuts to trade away a top 2 pick?

Not sure they have a lot of capital to trade for the required pick(s) either? Maybe McGovern? Not sure Gaff is worth enough anymore? Kelly is young enough but has been mediocre at West Coast and I assume he doesn't want to leave WA.

Lastly, English is reportedly happy in Melbourne, would he really want to go to a team at the beginning of rebuild that looks many years away from contending again?

[mjp]

Lastly, English is reportedly happy in Melbourne, would he really want to go to a team at the beginning of rebuild that looks many years away from contending again?

He's not exactly from 'PERTH' either...

I get that he could drive down south to visit the fam but we're talking a 7 1/2 hour return trip...

[Grantysghost]

He's not exactly from 'PERTH' either...

I get that he could drive down south to visit the fam but we're talking a 7 1/2 hour return trip...

I heard him interviewed early doors too and he went to a boarding school so was away from family living alone for a good while as a youngster.
Think he recently just moved out from the house he Naughton and Lipinski shared.

[Axe Man]

He's not exactly from 'PERTH' either...

I get that he could drive down south to visit the fam but we're talking a 7 1/2 hour return trip...

Hamling wasn't from Perth and Harbrow wasn't from the Gold Coast either...

There doesn't seem to have been any rumblings that he is especially keen to get back to WA though, so you would think it would be more about the deal if he was to request a trade.

[josie]

I think we keep Baz and Dunkley, but lose a 'next tier' type to do it (Williams) and 1-2 players starved of opportunity (e.g. West).

Yeah-I reckon that’s what club would be planning for. Looks like Caleb will sign up again. I think we must sign Bailey Dale too. He is AA form again and one of the best if not the best long, clever kicks in the game.

X fingers we keep English.

[mjp]

Hamling wasn't from Perth and Harbrow wasn't from the Gold Coast either...


Hammer's Dad was in hospital in Perth...Joel is from Broome though (a 2 1/2 day DRIVE from Perth).

My point is that everyone seems to assume that people want to go "HOME" - but for so many players the city they are moving too is nowhere near "HOME"...it might make things a 'bit' easier but it's not like they can pop around to Mum's place for dinner after training once a week.

In the main, players move clubs because a new club offers to pay them more OR offers them more game time. And that's where the conversation ends.

[bornadog]

Hammer's Dad was in hospital in Perth...Joel is from Broome though (a 2 1/2 day DRIVE from Perth).

My point is that everyone seems to assume that people want to go "HOME" - but for so many players the city they are moving too is nowhere near "HOME"...it might make things a 'bit' easier but it's not like they can pop around to Mum's place for dinner after training once a week.

In the main, players move clubs because a new club offers to pay them more OR offers them more game time. And that's where the conversation ends.

Totally agree.

It was like when Harbrow moved to Brisbane, apparently closer to home - Cairns. However, Harbrow also has family in Mooroopna (near Shepperton Victoria)

[Axe Man]

Hammer's Dad was in hospital in Perth...Joel is from Broome though (a 2 1/2 day DRIVE from Perth).

My point is that everyone seems to assume that people want to go "HOME" - but for so many players the city they are moving too is nowhere near "HOME"...it might make things a 'bit' easier but it's not like they can pop around to Mum's place for dinner after training once a week.

In the main, players move clubs because a new club offers to pay them more OR offers them more game time. And that's where the conversation ends.

Yeah I'm familiar with Hamling's story, I was agreeing with you.

[bornadog]

Hopefully this is right


"My mail is that the Bulldogs are quietly confident he will remain at the kennel."

@StevoMedia
says Tim English is likely to resist offers to relocate to WA next season

[soupman]

I think we keep Baz and Dunkley, but lose a 'next tier' type to do it (Williams) and 1-2 players starved of opportunity (e.g. West).

West cannot be on much more than a draftee, and if he is thats very irresponsible list management, so no real saving there. Williams might be on an ok contract, but is be surprised if his contract covered the increase in Smith and Dunkleys wages, let alone English as well.

Of the fringe guys who we could save money to cut I'd imagine only Crozier, Schache (might be around $300k), Mclean (same as Schache), the aforementioned Williams and JJ (who i am unsure on) would be candidates. The rest of the list would be on very low wages or an important player on good wages.

Realistically we are going to need to cut someone of substance if we want to free up cash, there aren't really any easy outs.

[Ghost Dog]

JJ is on a pretty big contract IIRC. Would get some currency. Is he worth keeping?

[FrediKanoute]

If English wanted to go and we could manufacture a deal which say us getting 2 first round picks (happy if that is split over 2 years) then I would consider. It would be a big loss and we would be a poorer team net year for it, but snaring a couple of gun youngsters would start the build for our next tilt.

AS for the discussion re our list, I think any guy 25 y/o and over who is not regularly pushing for selection is in the gun for a trade/delisting. This is prime for a footballer and if they have been on a list for 7 or 8 years and still haven't nailed down a spot or have lost their spot in the team then you have to question why they are on the list or whether they should be on the list next year. For us that is guys like Crozier, Schache, JJ (depending on how he comes back), McLean (depending on how he comes back from his 2nd knee), Bruce (depending on how he comes back from his knee), Sweet, Martyn. There is a reasonable amount of coin there that could be pumped into the better players on the list and also make some room for younger guys.

[MrMahatma]

If English wanted to go and we could manufacture a deal which say us getting 2 first round picks (happy if that is split over 2 years) then I would consider. It would be a big loss and we would be a poorer team net year for it, but snaring a couple of gun youngsters would start the build for our next tilt.

AS for the discussion re our list, I think any guy 25 y/o and over who is not regularly pushing for selection is in the gun for a trade/delisting. This is prime for a footballer and if they have been on a list for 7 or 8 years and still haven't nailed down a spot or have lost their spot in the team then you have to question why they are on the list or whether they should be on the list next year. For us that is guys like Crozier, Schache, JJ (depending on how he comes back), McLean (depending on how he comes back from his 2nd knee), Bruce (depending on how he comes back from his knee), Sweet, Martyn. There is a reasonable amount of coin there that could be pumped into the better players on the list and also make some room for younger guys.

I’d be against trading any of our top, say, 10 players at all. We’re in the window and we need a strong ruck division or we just waste more of Bont, Macrae, Naughton, etc. Not the time to trade English out

[Bulldog4life]

I’d be against trading any of our top, say, 10 players at all. We’re in the window and we need a strong ruck division or we just waste more of Bont, Macrae, Naughton, etc. Not the time to trade English out

I agree totally on your post MrM. Best post in this thread.

[EasternWest]

Hopefully this is right

Can't see that being incorrect - mind you, given Stevo's recent career change flop I've lost a lot of faith in his sense of judgement and ability to read a room.

[azabob]

Can't see that being incorrect - mind you, given Stevo's recent career change flop I've lost a lot of faith in his sense of judgement and ability to read a room.

He actually is now out of politics - from memory it occurred when the opposition leader changed last year. He is now working at RSN as producer on their breakfast show.

BUT, your point still stands!!

[bornadog]

He actually is now out of politics - from memory it occurred when the opposition leader changed last year. He is now working at RSN as producer on their breakfast show.

BUT, your point still stands!!

Doesn't he also work for Sky?

[Axe Man]

Doesn't he also work for Sky?

According to his Linkedin he finished up at Sky in March when he started at RSN.

Channel 7 > Vic Liberals > Sky > RSN in under a year.

[Grantysghost]

Doesn't he also work for Sky?

That channel has literally, I can't emphasise that enough, brainwashed my octogenarian mother to a point you simply can not mention anything alterior to their Liberal ideology.

It's very sad. I almost put a parental lock on it haha.

This is a working class woman. Amazing.

/politics.

[bornadog]

According to his Linkedin he finished up at Sky in March when he started at RSN.

Channel 7 > Vic Liberals > Sky > RSN in under a year.

Thanks, has changed so many jobs in the past year. Should have stuck with Ch7

[bornadog]

That channel has literally, I can't emphasise that enough, brainwashed my octogenarian mother to a point you simply can not mention anything alterior to their Liberal ideology.

It's very sad. I almost put a parental lock on it haha.

This is a working class woman. Amazing.

/politics.

I refuse to watch that Foxnews, whoops I mean Sky News channel

[hujsh]

That channel has literally, I can't emphasise that enough, brainwashed my octogenarian mother to a point you simply can not mention anything alterior to their Liberal ideology.

It's very sad. I almost put a parental lock on it haha.

This is a working class woman. Amazing.

/politics.

Different spin on the meaning behind Parental but I like it

[Axe Man]

That channel has literally, I can't emphasise that enough, brainwashed my octogenarian mother to a point you simply can not mention anything alterior to their Liberal ideology.

It's very sad. I almost put a parental lock on it haha.

This is a working class woman. Amazing.

/politics.

On Tomorrow Tonight on the ABC last night the topic was cheating - they asked if sharing a Netflix login was cheating. Christopher Pyne was a guest and he joked that he had a Sky News subscription but nobody was interested in sharing it.

[Grantysghost]

I refuse to watch that Foxnews, whoops I mean Sky News channel

It's not my scene that's for sure. I don't care what side of politics people are from it doesn't necessarily define them, however from an "ability to brain wash" point of view they're next level.
She hates the ABC, you can't mention them. She hasn't watched them in 5 years.

Back on thread that Stevo tweet is very encouraging. It would be devastating to lose Tim just as he's coming good.

[Grantysghost]

On Tomorrow Tonight on the ABC last night the topic was cheating - they asked if sharing a Netflix login was cheating. Christopher Pyne was a guest and he joked that he had a Sky News subscription but nobody was interested in sharing it.

Gold.

[1eyedog]

Got to hold onto English at all costs like anyone other than Naughton, Weightman and Bont all costs. He's going to dominate football in two years and two first rounders are unders because they're unknown quantity. We know what we've got.

[jazzadogs]

On Tomorrow Tonight on the ABC last night the topic was cheating - they asked if sharing a Netflix login was cheating. Christopher Pyne was a guest and he joked that he had a Sky News subscription but nobody was interested in sharing it.

I was in the studio audience for the filming of that. Christopher Pyne is a weird guy.

[Axe Man]

I was in the studio audience for the filming of that. Christopher Pyne is a weird guy.

Nice. I liked how Charlie Pickering stopped buying an Essendon membership after the supplements scandal.

Pyne is very weird and I was surprised to learn he has a wife.

[Bulldog4life]

Nice. I liked how Charlie Pickering stopped buying an Essendon membership after the supplements scandal.

Pyne is very weird and I was surprised to learn he has a wife.

Female?

[jazzadogs]

Nice. I liked how Charlie Pickering stopped buying an Essendon membership after the supplements scandal.

Pyne is very weird and I was surprised to learn he has a wife.

I don't know if it was reflected in the cut that went to air, but he basically just talked non-stop for an hour. Spoke over other people, said bizarre things, contradicted himself constantly. They stopped filming and Pickering said "thanks for coming to the Christopher Pyne Variety Hour", and Pyne asked why they kept letting him say such crazy things. As I said, weird guy.

How did we get on to this? Christopher Pyne to West Coast for a 2nd rounder?

[bornadog]

Here is an interesting development:


EAGLES BLOCKED FROM TRADING TOP PICK

WEST Coast will be unable to trade its first-round pick at this year's draft under AFL rules unless it can pick up another top-end selection.


Under the AFL's future trading rules, clubs must use two first-round picks over a rolling four-year period as the League ensures clubs can't trade away all of their future selections.


The Eagles, who currently sit on the bottom of the ladder after a bleak start to the season, have used only one first-round pick in the past four years, which was Campbell Chesser with No.14 at last year's national draft. West Coast can only trade its first pick if it secures a second first-round selection. Clubs are able to apply for exemptions to trade out their picks if they haven't reached the two-in-four requirement.

They are the only club who would be blocked from trading their first-round selection this year, having swapped their future first-round selection (for the 2018 draft) with Gold Coast in 2017 and then in 2019 traded out their first-round picks for that season and 2020 to Geelong to recruit Tim Kelly.


The Eagles would, however, be able to trade out their future first-round pick (for 2023) this year if they hold their first-rounder for 2022.


West Coast currently has three picks inside the top-25 selections based on the indicative draft order, having secured an extra second-round pick tied to Port Adelaide in a draft-night deal with the Power last year.


The next lowest number of first-round picks used over the past four years is St Kilda and Hawthorn, who have both activated three picks. – Callum Twomey

[Mantis]

West Coast are in a pretty diabolical position with their list management… besides Oscar Allen and maybe Jeremy McGovern do they have anyone who would gain them a 1st round pick to get back in the trade game?

[Grantysghost]

West Coast are in a pretty diabolical position with their list management… besides Oscar Allen and maybe Jeremy McGovern do they have anyone who would gain them a 1st round pick to get back in the trade game?

Kelly?

[Axe Man]

West Coast are in a pretty diabolical position with their list management… besides Oscar Allen and maybe Jeremy McGovern do they have anyone who would gain them a 1st round pick to get back in the trade game?

I brought this up back on page 2.

[bornadog]

I brought this up back on page 2.

True, but I think Mantis is commenting on my post that WC aren't allowed to trade pick one, unless they get back into the game.

[EasternWest]

Kelly?

Not on current form.

[Grantysghost]

Not on current form.

Jeepers. Didn't they pay a fortune for him? I have not watched any of their games this season.

[GVGjr]

Kelly?

Is Kelly a genuine A Grade midfielder?
They really overpaid for him in my opinion.

[Grantysghost]

Is Kelly a genuine A Grade midfielder?
They really overpaid for him in my opinion.

Was just looking that up :

https://www.draftguru.com.au/trades/2019-tim-kelly

Very complex trade on index points equated to about pick 2 from the Eagles apparently.
Cats used part of that for Jeremy Cameron.

THE TIM KELLY TRADE
West Coast received: Tim Kelly, pick 52 (on-traded to Brisbane in pick swap), 2020 third-round pick (on-traded to Sydney in Tom Hickey deal and later consumed in matching for Errol Gulden)

Geelong received: Pick 14 (Cooper Stephens), pick 24 (on-traded to GC for Suns to draft Jeremy Sharp), pick 37 (on-traded to Adel in Josh Jenkins deal), 2020 first-round pick (used in Jeremy Cameron trade).

Essendon received: Pick 33 (pushed back to 38 at the draft for Nick Bryan), pick 57 (on-traded to Carlton in deal for Andrew Phillips).

West Coast lost: Picks 14, 24, 33, 2020 first-round pick

Geelong lost: Tim Kelly, Pick 57, 2020 third-round pick

Essendon lost: Pick 37, 52

[Twodogs]

Was just looking that up :

https://www.draftguru.com.au/trades/2019-tim-kelly

Very complex trade on index points equated to about pick 2 from the Eagles apparently.
Cats used part of that for Jeremy Cameron.

THE TIM KELLY TRADE
West Coast received: Tim Kelly, pick 52 (on-traded to Brisbane in pick swap), 2020 third-round pick (on-traded to Sydney in Tom Hickey deal and later consumed in matching for Errol Gulden)

Geelong received: Pick 14 (Cooper Stephens), pick 24 (on-traded to GC for Suns to draft Jeremy Sharp), pick 37 (on-traded to Adel in Josh Jenkins deal), 2020 first-round pick (used in Jeremy Cameron trade).

Essendon received: Pick 33 (pushed back to 38 at the draft for Nick Bryan), pick 57 (on-traded to Carlton in deal for Andrew Phillips).

West Coast lost: Picks 14, 24, 33, 2020 first-round pick

Geelong lost: Tim Kelly, Pick 57, 2020 third-round pick

Essendon lost: Pick 37, 52


Jeyzus!



Is Kelly a genuine A Grade midfielder?
They really overpaid for him in my opinion.

I can't remember where I heard it (which given it was only earlier this week is a bit of a worry) but someone on the radio made the point that Geelong's game plan suited Kelly much better than West Coast's and that West Coast had virtually pissed the draft picks they gave up and the money they are paying Kelly up against the wall.

[Twodogs]

Nice. I liked how Charlie Pickering stopped buying an Essendon membership after the supplements scandal.

Pyne is very weird and I was surprised to learn he has a wife.


I think the correct common noun to use in this case is beard