North Melbourne

[bornadog]

Sounds like change is brewing at North

From Sam Edmund:

North Melbourne have just been hit by a triple walkout in their recruiting department. I understand Mark Finnigan, Glenn Luff and Ben Birthisel all handed in their resignations today - frustrated at the club over its management.

Coach under pressure as well.

[EasternWest]

Coach under pressure as well.

Absolute poisoned chalice.

They'll probably change coaches a few times, then after three more years of top ten draft picks, the AFL will parachute James Hird in who totally coincidentally will make them an ok team and James Hird a darling again.

[bornadog]

They really made some huge mistakes with the mass delistings and the recruitment of Stevenson.

[bornadog]

More issues:


Jason Horne-Francis missed the R9 game v Port with hammy tightness after traveling to Adelaide without the club’s knowledge. The No.1 draft pick flew to SA after returning from Perth with the team & was spoken to by management upon his return.

[Hotdog60]

Watch this space I think Clarkson will end up there next year. Or are we about to see Tasmania get their long awaited AFL team.

[Grantysghost]

They really made some huge mistakes with the mass delistings and the recruitment of Stevenson.
Where’s the guy who did that now?

[HOSE B ROMERO]

Watch this space I think Clarkson will end up there next year. Or are we about to see Tasmania get their long awaited AFL team.

I think Clarkson has said he wants to go to a club in the premiership window.

[GVGjr]

Sounds like change is brewing at North

From Sam Edmund:


Coach under pressure as well.

Kane Cornes has been calling this out and you have to wonder why it's a complete walk out by 3 leading figures of their team.?

I hope our guys are locked away.

[GVGjr]

It's not a walk out with 2 of the 3 receiving other job offers over the last few weeks.

Luff announced his decision to leave today. Persuing other opportunities.

[MrMahatma]

I think Clarkson has said he wants to go to a club in the premiership window.

Why oh why has Goldie stayed there.

[jeemak]

They can afford to pay him ridiculous money.

[Mitcha]

Why oh why has Goldie stayed there.

Not quite old enough yet to fit in down at the Cattery.

[macca]

Would Goldy be worth pursuing ?

Any of their backmen or KPD worth considering ?

[FrediKanoute]

Would Goldy be worth pursuing ?

Any of their backmen or KPD worth considering ?

No - took old now. He is struggling and Xerri is their no.1 ruck.

[jeemak]

Plus if we want to retain English we need to play him as a ruck.

[Grantysghost]

Plus if we want to retain English we need to play him as a ruck.

is he bizarro dunks, and are you bizarro jeemak?

[Mofra]

Would Goldy be worth pursuing ?

Any of their backmen or KPD worth considering ?
We ask about Ben McKay every time he's OOC.

[Axe Man]

We ask about Ben McKay every time he's OOC.

Since Ben and Harry Mckay are actually the same person we should definitely pursue this trade.

[macca]

North Melbourne in turmoil, with Luff quitting . Can we start recruiting some of their decent players ?

Ask Horne-Francis if he wants to be playing in finals in his second year ?

[Axe Man]

North Melbourne in turmoil, with Luff quitting . Can we start recruiting some of their decent players ?

Ask Horne-Francis if he wants to be playing in finals in his second year ?

Would take a Tom Boyd type deal, where are we finding that sort of salary cap room?

[Bulldog Revolution]

They really made some huge mistakes with the mass delistings and the recruitment of Stevenson.

The Polec one might have been even worse

[Grantysghost]

The Polec one might have been even worse

The was insane. 700k a year?

[bornadog]

Noble has full backing of the Board.

Will be gone in weeks :D

[G-Mo77]

The Polec one might have been even worse

The thing is, they have to pay so much in salaries, I'm not sure how much they can bank year to year but it's not like they would have got near that, even with Polec's signature. Polec will be off the books and they will have cash to spend, lots of it, we'll see if they can land anyone of interest.

For Norf, I don't think it's as bad as it seems, they're certainly in a huge hole now but it's not like they can't pull themselves out either.

[jeemak]

Noble has full backing of the Board.

Will be gone in weeks :D

He'll be updating his CV tonight.

[bornadog]

Tom Lynch (ex Crow) has retired. North will have two picks in mid season draft

[GVGjr]

Tom Lynch (ex Crow) has retired. North will have two picks in mid season draft

Scotty Clayton will be keen to get into it.

[jeemak]

Tom Lynch (ex Crow) has retired. North will have two picks in mid season draft

Was it the year before last that we were wanting to grab him?

[bornadog]

Was it the year before last that we were wanting to grab him?

Only WOOFERS wanted him :D

[GVGjr]

North are real weak links at the moment. I wonder what can and should be done about it? I can't see them being relocated and looking at the body language of Horne-Francis early picks might not be the answer. It might take a long time before they become relevant. Even Clarkson said he would only consider a contending team and that doesn't seem likely.

[azabob]

What is the body language issues with JHF? I haven’t gone looking for it but if I was a North supporter I’d be pretty annoyed at the media taking cheap shots at an 18 year old in his first season. As dog fans we’ve gone through this with Tom Boyd and now we are going through it with JUH.

For mine north have been let down by their senior core group. Ziebal, McKay, Goldstein, Corr, Anderson, McDonald, Greenwood. They are just not up to it and it’s being left to the younger developing players.

[MrMahatma]

It's certainly a long way back. They almost need to treat it like a new club and get the mix of youth and experience right - stop the floggings, and also accept that this is going to take 5+ years to get right. I think they'll struggle to keep top end talent.

[GVGjr]

What is the body language issues with JHF? I haven’t gone looking for it but if I was a North supporter I’d be pretty annoyed at the media taking cheap shots at an 18 year old in his first season. As dog fans we’ve gone through this with Tom Boyd and now we are going through it with JUH.

For mine north have been let down by their senior core group. Ziebal, McKay, Goldstein, Corr, Anderson, McDonald, Greenwood. They are just not up to it and it’s being left to the younger developing players.

Their senior group have been poor no doubt. JHF just spectates at times and lacks intensity.

[Scraggers]

It's certainly a long way back. They almost need to treat it like a new club and get the mix of youth and experience right - stop the floggings, and also accept that this is going to take 5+ years to get right. I think they'll struggle to keep top end talent.

Even though they say the reason was money, this reeks of the Fitzroy demise and subsequent merger with Brisbane. The sceptic in me thinks this will be a method of moving North to Tasmania

[Bulldog4life]

What is the body language issues with JHF? I haven’t gone looking for it but if I was a North supporter I’d be pretty annoyed at the media taking cheap shots at an 18 year old in his first season. As dog fans we’ve gone through this with Tom Boyd and now we are going through it with JUH.

For mine north have been let down by their senior core group. Ziebal, McKay, Goldstein, Corr, Anderson, McDonald, Greenwood. They are just not up to it and it’s being left to the younger developing players.

It mainly centred on JHF walking away and showing no respect to Goldstein, a champion player for North, as he was trying to explain something to him. Also his 2nd and 3rd efforts were poor. Commentators calling it as it was. I noticed the same things. Plus strangely on Social media he liked a tweet that suggested he be traded to Adelaide. Unusual to say the least.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

David King has been strong on JHF. I respect him as an analyst, and if he's saying it's a real problem, I tend to agree.

This kid isn't endearing himself to North. While I am no fan of Norf, it would be brutal if he requested a trade but it's looking like they might be better off without the kid.

[GVGjr]

David King has been strong on JHF. I respect him as an analyst, and if he's saying it's a real problem, I tend to agree.

This kid isn't endearing himself to North. While I am no fan of Norf, it would be brutal if he requested a trade but it's looking like they might be better off without the kid.

He looked so impressive last year, a real lock for the #1 pick but it looks like he hasn't settled in. Both Adelaide and Port will be looking at ways to get him back into SA.
I believe Adelaide are very confident they have Jack Lukosius ready to return so it could be a lot harder for them to land JHF

Perhaps Butters and a couple of picks by Port might get the deal done.

[comrade]

He looked so impressive last year, a real lock for the #1 pick but it looks like he hasn't settled in. Both Adelaide and Port will be looking at ways to get him back into SA.
I believe Adelaide are very confident they have Jack Lukosius ready to return so it could be a lot harder for them to land JHF

Perhaps Butters and a couple of picks by Port might get the deal done.

I wouldn’t do that if I was Port’s list manager. Butters is a jet.

[Scraggers]

He looked so impressive last year, a real lock for the #1 pick but it looks like he hasn't settled in. Both Adelaide and Port will be looking at ways to get him back into SA.
I believe Adelaide are very confident they have Jack Lukosius ready to return so it could be a lot harder for them to land JHF

Perhaps Butters and a couple of picks by Port might get the deal done.

I can't see Butters agreeing to go to North. In fact I can't see many agreeing to go to North

[GVGjr]

I wouldn’t do that if I was Port’s list manager. Butters is a jet.

It's something that North need to consider and if Butters is happy over in SA then I'd imagine Port would be keen to keep him.

Horne-Francis is a great prospect and Port would need to come up with a player not just draft picks to get him.

[GVGjr]

I can't see Butters agreeing to go to North. In fact I can't see many agreeing to go to North

It's a hard sell no doubt, money might be the only thing that lures players there.

[jazzadogs]

Dunkley to North, we'll take Butters (childhood dogs fan wasn't he?) and Port can have JHF. Add in picks as needed to balance it out. List management is easy.

[jeemak]

I reckon Norf would be better off getting rid of the number one who doesn't want to be there as quickly as possible and orchestrating a trade that can bring in some maturity around the footy and in one or two other places now.

They're seriously *!*!*!*!ed at the moment, and some good players in the 23-27 year old bracket on good money will be better for them than keeping a kid who doesn't want to be there.

[jeemak]

And I wouldn't under normal circumstances suggest that, but, they're genuinely *!*!*!*!ed at the moment.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

And I wouldn't under normal circumstances suggest that, but, they're genuinely *!*!*!*!ed at the moment.

Yep, how the hell did they get themselves to this point!?

[Grantysghost]

Yep, how the hell did they get themselves to this point!?

Gremlins so deleted.

[comrade]

We kind of went through small patches of it during 2002-2004 and 2013-2014 when it felt like we were headed for some long term pain and obscurity but this is next level. This is early year expansion club shitness.

[Grantysghost]

Yep, how the hell did they get themselves to this point!?

Rhyce Shaw went the scorched earth policy.

They also have made some really dumb recruiting decisions : Polec, Stephenson, Will Philips before Logan Mcdonald (wtf).

When you see Mason Wood getting a game for the Saints you really have to question what is going on.

They delisted Pittard and Macmillan who were in their leadership group!

Marley Williams surely would still get a game for them too.

[Grantysghost]

We kind of went through small patches of it during 2002-2004 and 2013-2014 when it felt like we were headed for some long term pain and obscurity but this is next level. This is early year expansion club shitness.

Considering they're already playing down in Hobart... You'd have to wonder if the AFL are having that conversation.

I hope not personally but they really need to turn it around next year and be competitive.

Huge off season for their future.

[comrade]

Rhyce Shaw went the scorched earth policy.

They also have made some really dumb recruiting decisions : Polec, Stephenson, Will Philips before Logan Mcdonald (wtf).

When you see Mason Wood getting a game for the Saints you really have to question what is going on.

They delisted Pittard and Macmillan who were in their leadership group!

Marley Williams surely would still get a game for them too.

The names you’re mentioning are part of their long term issues: they haven’t had enough (any?) senior players (25+) leading the way over the last 5 years. They cut a lot of dead wood and were still left with a bunch of scrubs.

I mean, they let Shaun Atley play 200+ games of AFL footy! And have allowed certified bog average Jack Ziebell to captain them for years.

The list management has been a disaster.

[Grantysghost]

The names you’re mentioning are part of their long term issues: they haven’t had enough (any?) senior players (25+) leading the way over the last 5 years. They cut a lot of dead wood and were still left with a bunch of scrubs.

I mean, they let Shaun Atley play 200+ games of AFL footy! And have allowed certified bog average Jack Ziebell to captain them for years.

The list management has been a disaster.

Yep I reckon list management over everything else they've been clear 18th for the last 5-10 years and it's evident now by their performances.

They are a draft and develop side (no big name is going there - although Dusty was close I believe) so they need to make that their 1 wood.

They realised that I think but then cut waaaay too deep thinking they'd bounce back via youth and maybe some mid range trades along the way but they sucked the soul out of the joint.

[Happy Days]

I don’t think the current coaching group is blameless in this. They actually showed a bit of promise towards the end of last year and have gone drastically backwards. Tarryn Thomas has gone from one of the funnest players in the AFL to one of the saddest in the VFL. Larkey and Zurrhar are back to only trying when they feel like it. Stephenson broke his hip doing the milk crate challenge probably and now he looks scared of everything again. Will Phillips is becoming smaller with every passing day. JHF already hates everyone and everything. There appears to be nothing resembling standards or positive reinforcement for struggling players coming from anywhere.

Their list management has been truly horrendous too. Burning primo picks on guys like CCJ and Stephenson to play them in the twos. Clearing out 13 pieces of driftwood doesn’t really achieve anything if you only end up replacing them with guys like Bosenavulagi, Lachie Young and the already delisted Connor Menadue. And I really think they only passed on McDonald because they had no confidence in their ability to retain him, as they have no confidence in themselves as a club.

If they’re good again within a decade I’d be shocked.

[Happy Days]

Also don’t get me started on them selfishly hoarding Goldstein at the end of 2020 instead of doing the right thing and trading him to us for Young, who they must not have seen play before trading for him.

[GVGjr]

You have to wonder on the wisdom of having Clayton calling the shots on trades and recruitment.

They've got a decent and loyal membership base and I think they're debt free but they aren't well managed at all.

[Grantysghost]

I don’t think the current coaching group is blameless in this. They actually showed a bit of promise towards the end of last year and have gone drastically backwards. Tarryn Thomas has gone from one of the funnest players in the AFL to one of the saddest in the VFL. Larkey and Zurrhar are back to only trying when they feel like it. Stephenson broke his hip doing the milk crate challenge probably and now he looks scared of everything again. Will Phillips is becoming smaller with every passing day. JHF already hates everyone and everything. There appears to be nothing resembling standards or positive reinforcement for struggling players coming from anywhere.

Their list management has been truly horrendous too. Burning primo picks on guys like CCJ and Stephenson to play them in the twos. Clearing out 13 pieces of driftwood doesn’t really achieve anything if you only end up replacing them with guys like Bosenavulagi, Lachie Young and the already delisted Connor Menadue. And I really think they only passed on McDonald because they had no confidence in their ability to retain him, as they have no confidence in themselves as a club.

If they’re good again within a decade I’d be shocked.

And was Rhyce Shaw of sound mind when he cut 35 players?

[Grantysghost]

Also don’t get me started on them selfishly hoarding Goldstein at the end of 2020 instead of doing the right thing and trading him to us for Young, who they must not have seen play before trading for him.

https://media.giphy.com/media/VLe9cJCjYWXLy/giphy.gif

[Grantysghost]

You have to wonder on the wisdom of having Clayton calling the shots on trades and recruitment.

They've got a decent and loyal membership base and I think they're debt free but they aren't well managed at all.

Do you think there's a chance they'll be relocated? Or is that no longer a thing.

[GVGjr]

Do you think there's a chance they'll be relocated? Or is that no longer a thing.

They seem to be chips in on staying in Melbourne and it would be questionable if Tasmania would embrace them.
I think they stay in Melbourne but they are a long way off being relevant.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Rhyce Shaw went the scorched earth policy.

They also have made some really dumb recruiting decisions : Polec, Stephenson, Will Philips before Logan Mcdonald (wtf).

When you see Mason Wood getting a game for the Saints you really have to question what is going on.

They delisted Pittard and Macmillan who were in their leadership group!

Marley Williams surely would still get a game for them too.

Phillips looks like a really bad selection at this point. Is he even playing?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The names you’re mentioning are part of their long term issues: they haven’t had enough (any?) senior players (25+) leading the way over the last 5 years. They cut a lot of dead wood and were still left with a bunch of scrubs.

I mean, they let Shaun Atley play 200+ games of AFL footy! And have allowed certified bog average Jack Ziebell to captain them for years.

The list management has been a disaster.

Whilst true, even poor sides need some 'semi' capable players to keep them somewhat competitive / protect the kids.

Williams, Pittard, Wood etc. are all better than half their list.

I mean, they go out and recruit Lachie Young. Why? Just because you're young, it doesn't mean you'll become good.

Horrific list management.

[Grantysghost]

Phillips looks like a really bad selection at this point. Is he even playing?

Haven't seen him might be injured.

[GVGjr]

Phillips looks like a really bad selection at this point. Is he even playing?

He's been injured, while it was a reach to select him so early it should work out for them OK.

[GVGjr]

Whilst true, even poor sides need some 'semi' capable players to keep them somewhat competitive / protect the kids.

Williams, Pittard, Wood etc. are all better than half their list.

I mean, they go out and recruit Lachie Young. Why? Just because you're young, it doesn't mean you'll become good.

Horrific list management.

I sort of get why they went for younger players from other teams as they would be hoping the come on quicker than draftees especially with later picks. It hasn't worked for them but it might have been on the hope one or two of them become good footballers and even if they don't it hasn't cost them much.

Attracting bigger names has been the challenge for them.

[bornadog]

Question - Is David Noble any good?

He was an assistant at the Bulldogs for 5 years including taking the reserves to a premiership, but that was 20 years ago.

Coaching Record


Coaching and administrative careerFollowing his successful captain-coaching stint at Upwey-Tecoma, Noble began a coaching career in the TAC Cup, serving as assistant coach at the newly established Oakleigh Chargers, then senior coach at the NSW/ACT Rams. He then joined AFL club the Western Bulldogs for five years from 1998-2002, serving as an assistant coach over that time as well as the reserves coach in 1998 and 1999, winning one reserves premiership.[1]


In 2003, Noble moved to South Australia, and served as senior coach at Glenelg in the SANFL in 2003 and 2004, but did not take the club to finals. He then joined the AFL's Adelaide Crows and spent more than a decade at the club, serving as assistant coach (2005-10), list manager (2011-13) and head of football (2014-16). He was an integral part of the club’s eight finals campaigns over that ten year period.[1] In September 2016, he left Adelaide and moved to become the Brisbane Lions General Manager of Football, serving there for four years and overseeing the Lions' return to finals football.[2]


In 2021, after ten years in administrator, Noble returned to coaching and became the senior coach of North Melbourne.[3] Taking over a club which had finished second-last in 2020, Noble led the club to the wooden spoon in 2021.

[GVGjr]

Question - Is David Noble any good?

He was an assistant at the Bulldogs for 5 years including taking the reserves to a premiership, but that was 20 years ago.

Coaching Record

I don't think he is a good coach but it was an awful time to come to North Melbourne. The list is in awful shape.

[Grantysghost]

I don't think he is a good coach but it was an awful time to come to North Melbourne. The list is in awful shape.

Why haven't they given him the lemonade? Seriously there are a lot of good assistants waiting for their chance.

Would they want to go there is the question!

[azabob]

Phillips looks like a really bad selection at this point. Is he even playing?

He was diagnosed with glandular fever in March this year.

[Grantysghost]

He was diagnosed with glandular fever in March this year.

Complete bust ;)

You know who doesn't have glandular fever.

The fine human specimen that is Logan Mcdonald.

Philips always felt like a second round pick due to his size. Do they never learn?

[bornadog]

I don't think he is a good coach but it was an awful time to come to North Melbourne. The list is in awful shape.

I am not sure about his motivational methods. He has apologies to the players several times for the way he spoke to them.

I think North have some real issues here.

[jeemak]

Question - Is David Noble any good?

He was an assistant at the Bulldogs for 5 years including taking the reserves to a premiership, but that was 20 years ago.

Coaching Record

He wasn't that pleasant as a coach when he was at the Chargers in the mid-nineties. If he hasn't changed then I reckon he'd be difficult to get behind.

[bornadog]

He wasn't that pleasant as a coach when he was at the Chargers in the mid-nineties. If he hasn't changed then I reckon he'd be difficult to get behind.

As I mentioned above, he has had a to apologise to the players several times due to what he said to them, so I don't think he has changed.

[comrade]

Of course he’s crap. No one any good wants to drink from that poisoned chalice.

[Twodogs]

Yep, how the hell did they get themselves to this point!?


Does it go back to when Scott got rid of most of the experienced players on the list and in doing so virtually gave the players who were left an endorsement/reason to be rubbish and take a few thrashings the next season?

Once the idea spreads amongst a playing group that getting your arse handed to you on a plate week after week is OK it can be hard to change that mindset.

[GVGjr]

Does it go back to when Scott got rid of most of the experienced players on the list and in doing so virtually gave the players who were left an endorsement/reason to be rubbish and take a few thrashings the next season?

Once the idea spreads amongst a playing group that getting your arse handed to you on a plate week after week is OK it can be hard to change that mindset.

After they cleared the decks it meant a lot of average players got a pay bump. I suspect that hasn't worked for them either.

[Twodogs]

After they cleared the decks it meant a lot of average players got a pay bump. I suspect that hasn't worked for them either.

A couple of the players they got rid of in that sweep were genuine club legends too and from what you hear the communication around their departure wasn't very good. If a bloke like Boomer Harvey turns up to the footy club one day to be told virtually out of the blue something like "mate you're being delisted at the end of the season, anyway I've got something real important to do over there so I'll catch you later. If you want to discuss it I think the boot studder might have some time on his hands" then what message does that send to the rest of the group?

[macca]

After they cleared the decks it meant a lot of average players got a pay bump. I suspect that hasn't worked for them either.

They got rid of some of their senior players too early.
Petrie and Harvey come to mind . Petrie went to have 1 good year in 2017 with WC and might have helped with subsequent 2018 flag. They needed Harvey to help the core midfielders. Apart from Cunnington, I cannot name any mature mids who is a decent player.

Moving Higgins on was the correct move.

2021 delisting
Taylor Garner Dom Tyson Will Walker Connor Menadue Shaun Atley Trent Dumont Tom Campbell Charlie Ham

Traded in : Callum Coleman-Jones (Trade - Richmond) Hugh Greenwood (Free Agent - North Melbourne) Out Robbie Tarrant (Trade - Richmond)



2020: delisted: Jamie Macmillan, Majak Daw, Jasper Pittard, Ben Jacobs, Paul Ahern, Mason Wood, Sam Durdin, Marley Williams, Joel Crocker, Lachie Hosie and Tom Murphy

In: Lachie Young,Jaidyn Stephenson, Atu Bosenavulagi
Out: Shaun Higgins,Ben Brown

Jury still out on Phillips and Powell. But they don't have the senior players around them to protect their young bodies.

[azabob]

Axe Man, I'd be worried it appears macca is in training for head of list managment at WOOF HQ.

[mjp]

2021 delisting
Taylor Garner
Dom Tyson
Will Walker
Connor Menadue
Shaun Atley
Trent Dumont
Tom Campbell
Charlie Ham


Yep. Why wouldn't you?



Traded in : Callum Coleman-Jones (Trade - Richmond) Hugh Greenwood (Free Agent - North Melbourne) Out Robbie Tarrant (Trade - Richmond)

Look like reasonable selections. I wouldn't have bothered with Greenwood but understood the big mid thing and he had an OK year with GC in 2021.




2020: delisted:
Jamie Macmillan,
Majak Daw,
Jasper Pittard,
Ben Jacobs,
Paul Ahern,
Mason Wood,
Sam Durdin,
Marley Williams,
Joel Crocker,
Lachie Hosie
Tom Murphy

I guess Durdin is back now and Wood gets a game (in and out) with the 'aints but, again...why wouldn't you do that? I guess Ahern unlucky after a couple of knees but it isn't a charity.




In: Lachie Young,
Jaidyn Stephenson,
Atu Bosenavulagi

Out: Shaun Higgins,Ben Brown


The Brown one remains mystifying but aside from that? I liked Young when we had him, Stephenson has 'talent'...I don't think Bosenavulagi can kick so wouldn't have bothered but I think to get Stephenson they had to take him due to the Pies salary cap 'stuff' (Is that Adam Treloar's music??).

I get all the 'they cut too deep' messages but would they be ANY better off with half those players they cut? Is Jasper-Pittard the difference between 1 win and top 4? Phillips over McDonald remains crazy stuff but they were following their Money Ball based player selection model so, well, if you're going to do something like that then I guess you have to go 'all in'. Of course, the driving force behind that plan (Luff) has now himself left so I have zero idea where there plan is. And if you want to suggest that any model suggesting a small mid who hasn't played for 12-months and when he DID play was the 3rd or 4th wheel in a team that featured the #1 and #2 picks from 12-months earlier who were both also mids should be selected over a 195cm key forward playing vs men in the WAFL before his 18th birthday and winning the goal-kicking award is a flawed model then I am here to listen!

[GVGjr]

North Melbourne legend Wayne Carey says the club has no choice but to remove senior coach David Noble this year.

Carey, who captained the club to two premierships, said Geoff Walsh would not baulk the hard decisions which need to be made on the senior coaching position based on the team’s terrible results this season.

Hawthorn premiership mastermind Alastair Clarkson would be No.1 target on the replacement wishlist, but it remains unclear if the coaching legend has any interest in returning to Arden St.

But the changes could be more widespread as chief executive Ben Amarfio is also under pressure following the departure of three Roos’ recruiters mid-season.

The Kangaroos lost to Geelong by 112 points on Saturday night and managed only 12 inside 50s after quarter time in their biggest backwards step of the season.

The Roos have become the first team in AFL/VFL history to lose 11 straight games by more than 47 points.

It has prompted renewed calls to give North Melbourne a priority pick on top of recent high selections to welcome Jason Horne-Francis (pick one), Will Phillips (pick two) and Luke Davies-Uniacke (four) in recent years.

Carey said the Roos were paying the price for “some really poor decisions which have been made over a long period of time” and had hit “rock bottom”.

He said the club had to make a senior coaching change for 2023.

“He (Noble) won’t be there,” Carey said on Triple M.

“Results have dictated that. It is pretty plain for everyone to see.

“I think his messaging for me is starting to become confusing and if it is confusing for me listening then it is going to be confusing for the players.

“There is no way he can survive.”

St Kilda great Leigh Montagna agreed. “They need a circuit-breaker. A number of things need to change,” Montagna said.

Carey said respected footy administrator Walsh, who helped make changes at Carlton last year, was the right man to lead the review.

“Everything has got to be a winner from this point on and that is why – with this review with Geoff Walsh – they have got the right guy in there who will call a spade a shovel,” Carey said.

“He has to hit them straight between the eyes with whatever he finds.”

Former Fremantle and St Kilda coach Ross Lyon said the club must help support Noble in these tough times.

“I feel for David Noble here,” Lyon said.

“The argument is could they be doing much better? Everyone is looking for some green shoots.

“There just isn’t enough hope for the mess that is there and it hasn’t really recovered since the noise that was around the Brisbane game.

It is a tough business if you haven’t got the talent and he is going into a gunfight with a knife.

“I do feel for him a bit and if they have made the decision that he’s not going to be there they are better off going to him and say ‘Mate, this hasn’t worked, we are starting our hunt (for our replacement), what do you want to do with this?

“’We are worried about your health’ and we have seen it with Mark Neeld before. Don Pyke, Rhyce Shaw. It can get hot in the kitchen.”

[Mofra]

They got rid of some of their senior players too early.
Petrie and Harvey come to mind . Petrie went to have 1 good year in 2017 with WC and might have helped with subsequent 2018 flag. They needed Harvey to help the core midfielders. Apart from Cunnington, I cannot name any mature mids who is a decent player.

Moving Higgins on was the correct move.

2021 delisting
Taylor Garner Dom Tyson Will Walker Connor Menadue Shaun Atley Trent Dumont Tom Campbell Charlie Ham

Traded in : Callum Coleman-Jones (Trade - Richmond) Hugh Greenwood (Free Agent - North Melbourne) Out Robbie Tarrant (Trade - Richmond)



2020: delisted: Jamie Macmillan, Majak Daw, Jasper Pittard, Ben Jacobs, Paul Ahern, Mason Wood, Sam Durdin, Marley Williams, Joel Crocker, Lachie Hosie and Tom Murphy

In: Lachie Young,Jaidyn Stephenson, Atu Bosenavulagi
Out: Shaun Higgins,Ben Brown

Jury still out on Phillips and Powell. But they don't have the senior players around them to protect their young bodies.
Phillips over McDonald at pick 2 looked a howler at the time, and is only looking worse.

Most north fans I know say they should have kept Durdin and the rest of the delistings were spot on.

The club's in real trouble off-field. People forget their entire recruiting team walked out a few weeks ago, and their CEO Ben Armafio left a lot of people unhappy at Cricket Australia and it seems he's doing the same at North. I doubt their coach survives until the end of the season and there's every chance JHF walks out too, if not this year than next year.

[GVGjr]

Phillips over McDonald at pick 2 looked a howler at the time, and is only looking worse.

Most north fans I know say they should have kept Durdin and the rest of the delistings were spot on.

The club's in real trouble off-field. People forget their entire recruiting team walked out a few weeks ago, and their CEO Ben Armafio left a lot of people unhappy at Cricket Australia and it seems he's doing the same at North. I doubt their coach survives until the end of the season and there's every chance JHF walks out too, if not this year than next year.

I think they have to get a few priority picks over the next two years so that they can trade them for established players.
Mid of the 1st round seems to be about right.

Should there also be some genuine concerns if Clayton is going to manage their recruiting? His history over the last few years hasn't been impressive.

Despite their resilient membership base you would have to think even there most loyal supporters do not see any light at the end of the tunnel at the moment.
The AFL has to step in and restore some order as we can't have such a weal side in the competition.

[MrMahatma]

Are the guys who walked, the ones who drafted all the guys they then delisted?

I feel for Noble. What chance does he have? What chance does the next coach have? They're gonna suck for a few years yet and if they keep changing coaches then they'll lose player also.

I guess they can look at the Lions model and how they managed to right the ship under Fagan. Who was the other senior footy head there for a few years... oh yeah, Noble!

Lots of factors in all of this. I don't see how this year was going to be anything apart from rubbish for them, and unless they recuit 3-4 senior guys for a couple of years just to bring some stability/leadership/standards/competitiveness to the squad, next year is going to be painful also. And the next 2.

[GVGjr]

Are the guys who walked, the ones who drafted all the guys they then delisted?

I feel for Noble. What chance does he have? What chance does the next coach have? They're gonna suck for a few years yet and if they keep changing coaches then they'll lose player also.

I guess they can look at the Lions model and how they managed to right the ship under Fagan. Who was the other senior footy head there for a few years... oh yeah, Noble!

Lots of factors in all of this. I don't see how this year was going to be anything apart from rubbish for them, and unless they recuit 3-4 senior guys for a couple of years just to bring some stability/leadership/standards/competitiveness to the squad, next year is going to be painful also. And the next 2.

Nobel's not the problem but will very likely be one a few fall guys.
Regarding the recruiting, picking Phillips looks bad on paper but he was a solid selection that has been cut down by covid and glandular fever so hasn't had a chance to impress this year.

They got the cull wrong because I think they thought they would have a number of out of contract players heading their way because they could pay more and that didn't happen.

I know Clayton is an experienced recruiter and apparently a brilliant contract negotiator but the merits of having him calling the shots this year is questionable given I don't think he's been impressive for a while now.
Development of younger talented players might have been the issue for Gold Coast but the recruiting was often at best questionable.

It's imperative they get a priority pick this year and next that they can use for a trade with another club for an experienced player.

[jeemak]

They should turn JHF into two first rounders and on-trade them for some cattle, and trade down their first pick in the draft for two first rounders to pick junior talent.

It would be silly to give them priority picks, their issues are purely of their making and they need to fight their way out of their situation.

Players will go there if the money is right. And they should have plenty of that to throw around.

[hujsh]

They should turn JHF into two first rounders and on-trade them for some cattle, and trade down their first pick in the draft for two first rounders to pick junior talent.

It would be silly to give them priority picks, their issues are purely of their making and they need to fight their way out of their situation.

Players will go there if the money is right. And they should have plenty of that to throw around.

Melbourne set the precedent though

[GVGjr]

They should turn JHF into two first rounders and on-trade them for some cattle, and trade down their first pick in the draft for two first rounders to pick junior talent.

It would be silly to give them priority picks, their issues are purely of their making and they need to fight their way out of their situation.

Players will go there if the money is right. And they should have plenty of that to throw around.

I've tended to have the same opinion but they're as weak on field at the moment as Fitzroy was all those years ago.
For the teams that get to play North twice it's almost a guaranteed win and a percentage booster and I don't think that serves the competition well. A mid round one pick could be used to acquire a very good player from another club.
I don't disagree on JHF but I would wait it out if I were them. Neither Adelaide or Port are going to be be bottom next year and will need to cough up something good.
I'd be insisting on a combination of players like McHenry from Adelaide or Duursma from Port not just accepting draft picks.

[jeemak]

Melbourne set the precedent though

The AFL set the precedent and they're the best at ignoring precedents.

[jeemak]

I've tended to have the same opinion but they're as weak on field at the moment as Fitzroy was all those years ago.
For the teams that get to play North twice it's almost a guaranteed win and a percentage booster and I don't think that serves the competition well. A mid round one pick could be used to acquire a very good player from another club.
I don't disagree on JHF but I would wait it out if I were them. Neither Adelaide or Port are going to be be bottom next year and will need to cough up something good.
I'd be insisting on a combination of players like McHenry from Adelaide or Duursma from Port not just accepting draft picks.

But I don't think either Port or Adelaide are really in the position to be coughing up decent players either. Do they have anyone on their lists who are good and surplus to needs? So I'm wondering if they need to tap into future first rounds to get the currency for JHF.

And I'd be moving JHF on right away, rather than have him go for less next year. He doesn't want to be there, if he's healthy and injury free at the end of this year get rid of him.

[GVGjr]

Horne-Francis is better than either of those boys but North need players who are of the standard now rather than waiting for some draftees to develop. A couple of mid range picks in the first round isn't a reasonable compensation in my opinion.
If I were to lose a player of his quality I want ready made senior players as part of a package in return and they would need to have fantastic attitudes.

Horne-Francis teamed Laird and Keays would be a strong group for the Crows and if the rumors that Dunks is thinking about moving to SA then that becomes a brilliant midfield.

Same for Port, Wines JHF, Boak with cameo's from Butters and Rozee makes them more potent.

[Grantysghost]

Horne-Francis is better than either of those boys but North need players who are of the standard now rather than waiting for some draftees to develop. A couple of mid range picks in the first round isn't a reasonable compensation in my opinion.
If I were to lose a player of his quality I want ready made senior players as part of a package in return and they would need to have fantastic attitudes.

Horne-Francis teamed Laird and Keays would be a strong group for the Crows and if the rumors that Dunks is thinking about moving to SA then that becomes a brilliant midfield.

Same for Port, Wines JHF, Boak with cameo's from Butters and Rozee makes them more potent.

Why wouldn't Norf have just split their pick 1 last season if they were going to do that?
Seems like a lot of unnecessary *!*!*!*!ing around to me.

[GVGjr]

Why wouldn't Norf have just split their pick 1 last season if they were going to do that?
Seems like a lot of unnecessary *!*!*!*!ing around to me.

The offers weren't that great. They picked the right player, it's just not working for them at the moment.

[hujsh]

The AFL set the precedent and they're the best at ignoring precedents.

Can't argue there

[Grantysghost]

The offers weren't that great. They picked the right player, it's just not working for them at the moment.

I'd keep JHF.

Split this year's and get a couple of solid types. Surely there's a bunch of guys from the covid drafts that are late bloomers.

[Mitcha]

Nobel's not the problem but will very likely be one a few fall guys.
Regarding the recruiting, picking Phillips looks bad on paper but he was a solid selection that has been cut down by covid and glandular fever so hasn't had a chance to impress this year.

Sorry G, disagree on this one. They walked Ben Brown out the door and had the chance to upgrade with Logan McDonald but instead drafted a tiny mid in Phillips. 180cm midfielders are as out of date as the place kick, if you aren't a bull like Oliver, Petracca, Cripps, Steele, Bontempelli and the like you will get chewed up and spat out pretty quickly and makes it hard to justify such an early pick not that it was the kids fault where he was drafted. Pretty much sums up where Norf are when absolute spuds like Kayne Turner not only is staggeringly still on their list but plays every week and somehow is in their leadership group. Basket case club for the foreseeable future.

[1eyedog]

Sorry G, disagree on this one. They walked Ben Brown out the door and had the chance to upgrade with Logan McDonald but instead drafted a tiny mid in Phillips. 180cm midfielders are as out of date as the place kick, if you aren't a bull like Oliver, Petracca, Cripps, Steele, Bontempelli and the like you will get chewed up and spat out pretty quickly and makes it hard to justify such an early pick not that it was the kids fault where he was drafted. Pretty much sums up where Norf are when absolute spuds like Kayne Turner not only is staggeringly still on their list but plays every week and somehow is in their leadership group. Basket case club for the foreseeable future.

I think there's a place for the 6 foot 80kg hybrid wing-half back-midfielder as a role player. Premierships can be built around a few really good examples of these types. Just ask Richmond. There's only ever a handful of the Cripps /Bont type player every 10 years. You gotta fill the gaps around these players somehow!

On topic I really hope Norf hold onto Horne-Francis. Is a seriously good player they gotta hold onto him somehow.

[jeemak]

I think there's a place for the 6 foot 80kg hybrid wing-half back-midfielder as a role player. Premierships can be built around a few really good examples of these types. Just ask Richmond. There's only ever a handful of the Cripps /Bont type player every 10 years. You gotta fill the gaps around these players somehow!

On topic I really hope Norf hold onto Horne-Francis. Is a seriously good player they gotta hold onto him somehow.

Liked for the first paragraph, not the second.

[Mitcha]

I think there's a place for the 6 foot 80kg hybrid wing-half back-midfielder as a role player. Premierships can be built around a few really good examples of these types. Just ask Richmond. There's only ever a handful of the Cripps /Bont type player every 10 years. You gotta fill the gaps around these players
May be so 1 eye but you shouldn't be using pick three to get a role player!!!

[Grantysghost]

May be so 1 eye but you shouldn't be using pick three to get a role player!!!

It's a draft howler. They could've had the most athletic 200cm player the world has ever seen!

[GVGjr]

Sorry G, disagree on this one. They walked Ben Brown out the door and had the chance to upgrade with Logan McDonald but instead drafted a tiny mid in Phillips. 180cm midfielders are as out of date as the place kick, if you aren't a bull like Oliver, Petracca, Cripps, Steele, Bontempelli and the like you will get chewed up and spat out pretty quickly and makes it hard to justify such an early pick not that it was the kids fault where he was drafted. Pretty much sums up where Norf are when absolute spuds like Kayne Turner not only is staggeringly still on their list but plays every week and somehow is in their leadership group. Basket case club for the foreseeable future.

They've made a number of mistakes and McDonald was probably the best player in the draft but the way the media focuses on the Phillips selection is in reality just a small part of their challenges. Phillips is a good footballer and I think the media is splitting hairs about McDonald and Phillips but yes McDonald is the better prospect.

They will not get back into a reasonable position until the AFL bail them out and i don't think it's good enough to have them as weak as they currently are.

[mjp]

They walked Ben Brown out the door and had the chance to upgrade with Logan McDonald but instead drafted a tiny mid in Phillips. 180cm midfielders are as out of date as the place kick, if you aren't a bull like Oliver, Petracca, Cripps, Steele, Bontempelli and the like you will get chewed up and spat out pretty quickly and makes it hard to justify such an early pick not that it was the kids fault where he was drafted.


Sam Walsh says Hi. So does Shai Bolton. The list goes on. Good players are good players.

I don't totally disagree with what you are saying about Phillips but we are talking about the perfect storm from a draft perspective.

1/. North undergoing a bit of a Money Ball style draft transformation under Luff.
2/. No footy during the year due to COVID and scouts needing to rely on 2019 data (or 17yo form) for all Victorian draft prospects - around 65% of the draft every year.

Phillips had great numbers as a bottom ager...but it was really hard to measure him as he was in the same Chargers team as Rowell and Anderson...and Finn Macrae, and Reef McInnes...and Jamarra for that matter. So how do you judge him (Phillips)? And how do you NOT hone in on the numbers when they are the basis of your new "system"/"philosophy" and you don't have anything else. And, well, how do you compare what McDonald is doing as a key forward at senior level in Perth to what Phillips did 12-months ago as a bottom ager in Melbourne??

I am obviously prejudiced towards Logan and tired of the way players like him fall down the order whilst players from Vic Metro (esp) continue to be selected at the top of the draft (nothing will EVER beat Jack Watts over Nick Nat but to me this was close) but I do have some sympathy for North and their recruiting team in this instance.

[jeemak]

What was wrong about Jack Watts over Nic Nat?

Jack was white, tall, could kick a long goal and most importantly was from a good family, a good school and had a basketball background. He literally ticked all of the aspirational boxes you could want for a first selection.

Christ.

[Bulldog4life]

I think they have to get a few priority picks over the next two years so that they can trade them for established players.
Mid of the 1st round seems to be about right.

Should there also be some genuine concerns if Clayton is going to manage their recruiting? His history over the last few years hasn't been impressive.

Despite their resilient membership base you would have to think even there most loyal supporters do not see any light at the end of the tunnel at the moment.
The AFL has to step in and restore some order as we can't have such a weal side in the competition.

Disagree with this. If they do happen to scrounge one I would think end of the first round is more than fair to them and all other teams.

[Bulldog4life]

I've tended to have the same opinion but they're as weak on field at the moment as Fitzroy was all those years ago.
For the teams that get to play North twice it's almost a guaranteed win and a percentage booster and I don't think that serves the competition well. A mid round one pick could be used to acquire a very good player from another club.
I don't disagree on JHF but I would wait it out if I were them. Neither Adelaide or Port are going to be be bottom next year and will need to cough up something good.
I'd be insisting on a combination of players like McHenry from Adelaide or Duursma from Port not just accepting draft picks.

Agree they are but one difference. Fitzroy were broke North are not having paid off all their debts.

[Grantysghost]

Disagree with this. If they do happen to scrounge one I would think end of the first round is more than fair to them and all other teams.

Melbourne got 3 as their "not a priority pick" for Frawley ! Got a handy player in Brayshaw with it (Petracca 2 Brayshaw 3)

[Bulldog4life]

Melbourne got 3 as their "not a priority pick" for Frawley ! Got a handy player in Brayshaw with it (Petracca 2 Brayshaw 3)

It still wasn't fair to all the other teams.

[Grantysghost]

It still wasn't fair to all the other teams.

Totally agree - I was with you. The two picks for Scully also another conspicuous hand me out to the AFL's Melbourne side.

They got Hogan and Dom Barry so didn't really work out that well for them. We got Macrae for Ward so win.

[bornadog]

It still wasn't fair to all the other teams.

Cooney was a priority pick

[Bulldog4life]

Cooney was a priority pick

I didn't realize that or have forgotten. Don't know which.

[GVGjr]

I didn't realize that or have forgotten. Don't know which.

There was 3 PP that year. Cooney, Walker and Sylvia. Farren Ray was the 4th overall pick.

[hujsh]

Cooney was a priority pick


There was 3 PP that year. Cooney, Walker and Sylvia. Farren Ray was the 4th overall pick.

And it was also pretty transparent who would get a PP and how. I think if you had under a certain number of wins you qualified. Not just based on a gut feel.

[azabob]

Cooney was a priority pick

Old mate Griffen was a PP.

[MrMahatma]

Cooney was a priority pick

Technically, yes, but really it was Ray that we got cause we had the additional pick. If there were not PPs that year, we still get Cooney.

[Grantysghost]

Technically, yes, but really it was Ray that we got cause we had the additional pick. If there were not PPs that year, we still get Cooney.

Yes technically a priority but then technically Ray was #1 too of the "normal" picks.

[Grantysghost]

Old mate Griffen was a PP.

Yes we got Williams with our real pick 3 which was 6 after priority.

[Happy Days]

How did we not pick Buddy seriously.

[bornadog]

And it was also pretty transparent who would get a PP and how. I think if you had under a certain number of wins you qualified. Not just based on a gut feel.

Yes if you won less than 5 games you got a PP

[Bulldog Joe]

There was 3 PP that year. Cooney, Walker and Sylvia. Farren Ray was the 4th overall pick.

Correct

Without the priority pick we still would have selected Cooney. Farren Ray was the effect of having the PP.

Selection of Cooney as best player in the draft was clear cut and even correct in hindsight. It looks like it might even pay off further under father/son


Additionally the real PP in 2004 was Tom Williams. Griffen was our selection regardless of PP

[Bulldog4life]

Correct

Without the priority pick we still would have selected Cooney. Farren Ray was the effect of having the PP.

Selection of Cooney as best player in the draft was clear cut and even correct in hindsight. It looks like it might even pay off further under father/son


Additionally the real PP in 2004 was Tom Williams. Griffen was our selection regardless of PP

Come back Coons.

[Twodogs]

I'd keep JHF.

Split this year's and get a couple of solid types.

Me too. He's an outstanding talent who could be the best player in the comp. If they give him up then in 3 or 4 years we will be saying that North are in the position they will be then because they gave JHF up for some magic beans.

Unless he wants to come to us. Then I'd say clear him by all means.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

North Melbourne is beginning to look like the old Fitzroy and South Melbourne who were both resurrected in their emerging as the Brisbane Lions and the Sydney Swans to now be two powerful and successful Clubs.
The Kangaroos best option would appear to merge with a Tassie side which would avoid the bye by maintaining an 18 team competition.
Tasmanian football has been severely weakened ever since NM and Hawthorn were given access to Tasmania which severely weakened its local football which is now at a low ebb. The annual sponsorship by the Tasmanian Government of 20 million dollars to the two Victorian clubs is money not going to boost Tasmanian local football. A combined team could see 9 games played in both Tasmania and Victoria with a further 4 games Interstate. The AFL provided GWS with 80 million dollars in its first two years to establish it in NSW with generous priority picks resulting in 5 Finals appearances in its first 9 years.
The major drawback to a Tasmanian team entering the AFL is the selfish attitude of established Clubs protecting its own interests.
Alastair Clarkson having played with North Melbourne and the experience of Coaching Hawthorn in Tasmania would be a great fillip as its senior Coach with an attraction to maintain and increase major sponsorships which has seen North Melbourne now struggling in this important area of operation.

[GVGjr]

Spot on NBP. The only difference is that North are debt free with a decent membership base behind it. Fitzroy was struggling for members and managing their finances.

Regarding the local Tasmanian competition they need to get it up to 10 teams and the AFL would need to invest around 1.3M per year for a few seasons to strengthen the competition.

[azabob]

IF ...
Peter Hudson himself once kicked 150 goals in a season ...

THEN ...
the North Melbourne Football Club still needs another 32 this year from the remaining seven games to equal him. Just think about that.

[bornadog]

Reports that Noble gone

[Grantysghost]

Yep he's gone. Leigh Adams the vfl coach to take over.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/798399/noble-to-step-down-as-north-coach-after-14th-straight-defeat

[azabob]

Yep he's gone. Leigh Adams the vfl coach to take over.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/798399/noble-to-step-down-as-north-coach-after-14th-straight-defeat

Surely the North administration needs to be looked at?

Ben Amarfio surely has to also fall on his sword?

A few messes in both cricket and AFL now under his watch.

[GVGjr]

Surely the North administration needs to be looked at?

Ben Amarfio surely has to also fall on his sword?

A few messes in both cricket and AFL now under his watch.

We all know it's not just the coach but it all depends on how they measure success to see who stays or goes.
You would imagine Amarfio goes at the end of the season.
You have to wonder about Rawlings and McPherson.
Is Adams over Blakey an interesting selection?

[comrade]

Poor bugger never stood a chance.

[Mofra]

Poor bugger never stood a chance.
Bingo. Quality person too

[Grantysghost]

Bingo. Quality person too

And they just played their best game of the season!

Don't get it.

[comrade]

And they just played their best game of the season!

Don't get it.

Maybe the players knew an announcement was coming? He’d clearly lost the group a while ago, was just a matter time.

[Grantysghost]

Maybe the players knew an announcement was coming? He’d clearly lost the group a while ago, was just a matter time.

Shame they put in the required effort when the horse has bolted. Jeemak might be onto something.

It is a big part of the coaches job though to motivate the group collectively and individually.

[comrade]

Shame they put in the required effort when the horse has bolted. Jeemak might be onto something.

It is a big part of the coaches job though to motivate the group collectively and individually.

Tough ask to beat Richmond but don’t be surprised if they get that dead cat bounce this week.

[DOG GOD]

Noble seems the type that like discipline and order. He had a game style he wanted to deliver and wasn’t afraid to drop those not willing to put in the hard yards, particularly Thomas and Horne- Francis. Guys like Goldstein would love this, but any prima donnas within that club wouldn’t have and that would’ve been a bridge between coach and players , especially with a young group.

He was never going to be successful. I feel sorry for him.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Not surprising.

Not sure he handled the group all that well, even if the list itself is awful.

[GVGjr]

North are really pushing to get a priority pick and while I know a lot of this is of their own doing I think they're likely to get one.

[Grantysghost]

North are really pushing to get a priority pick and while I know a lot of this is of their own doing I think they're likely to get one.

Hopefully after the end of the first round.

They've had plenty of high picks lately.
2015 - Traded 15 for Jed Anderson (with some other's chucked in)
2016 - Simpkin (12)
2017 - LDU (4)
2018 - Tarryn Thomas (8)
2019 - They traded out pick 8 to Melbourne who traded it to Freo who picked Caleb Serong. They got Melbourne's future first (2020), pick 26 and 50.
2020 - Philips (3), Powell (13 from Melbourne)
2021 - JHF (1)

Would an extra pick really help??

[GVGjr]

Hopefully after the end of the first round.

They've had plenty of high picks lately.

FWIW, I think they'll get an earlier one. They need some help now.
They can trade the pick for a very good player.

[hujsh]

FWIW, I think they'll get an earlier one. They need some help now.
They can trade the pick for a very good player.

That was he logic for the picks given to GWS. I doubt they'll trade it

[GVGjr]

That was he logic for the picks given to GWS. I doubt they'll trade it

I think it will be a condition of the PP, extract the best player for the pick.

[Grantysghost]

FWIW, I think they'll get an earlier one. They need some help now.
They can trade the pick for a very good player.

They've done that in the past (well for picks actually) - check my post I added more context.

I guess if they can lever that into a decent player it makes sense. But they've had their fair share.

[The Doctor]

There is no way North Melbourne should be given any priority picks in the National Draft. Certainly not while their Administration is in such poor state.

This club's football dept has been poorly run since Ben Buckley took on the presidency in 2016. Prior to his appointment the NMFC had played finals in the 3 preceding years including two top 4 finishes. Under his reign they have failed to make the finals. Last year they won the wooden spoon, narrowly avoided the spoon by % the previous year and will finished bottom 2 this year which he is entitled to add to his resume despite handing over the reigns to Dr Sonja Hood.

Buckley, to his credit, did navigate the Roos out of debt. He is a known corporate schmoozer but under his leadership he has left the football department in a catastrophic state. There has been one bungle after another. Poor decisions regarding coaches, recruits, draft picks, list management generally have been a feature of Buckley's tenure. Senior football dept have walked out and so on.

They now are being led by Dr Hood who has been on the board for the past 3 years and she has to take some of the responsibility. They have had to call in former CEO Geoff Walsh to run a review of the football dept. What has current CEO Ben Armafio been doing? It seems to me Walsh was employed to do a hit job on Noble and the senior administration of the club are trying to lay the blame with him rather than take genuine accountability for the mess they are in. Influential North supporters have been calling for the heads of Hood and Amarfio. It's not a happy place.

Before the AFL start throwing around priority picks they should first insist that the club gets it's leadership in order right throughout. The best way for the club to improve it's ladder position is to make the right decisions in recruiting key personnel to run their football department (the board probably needs a shake up as well). Do they have the right people at the club now to make those decisions? That is highly questionable. So what good would throwing priority picks to them be? They would probably trade it to Essendon for Dyson Heppell in order to get some on field leadership, lol!

It's best to build from the ground up and work with what they have and make clever and innovative decisions regarding key personnel and their list. It can turn quickly like it did with us in 2014. Or a bit longer like it did with Melbourne when they, with AFL assistance, had to clear the duds running the club and appoint people who knew what they were doing. Then AFL might to take over the admin at North as I don't think anyone there knows how to tie up their shoelaces let alone run the club .

[Mofra]

I wouldn't be surprised to see them get a 2nd rounder and/or priority access to state league talent.
They have no 2nd or 3rd rounder this year as well having traded them last year. We have their third rounder currently.

[GVGjr]

I wouldn't be surprised to see them get a 2nd rounder and/or priority access to state league talent.
They have no 2nd or 3rd rounder this year as well having traded them last year. We have their third rounder currently.

That sounds fair enough but the competition can't sit on their hands and just waiting it out.
Not sure if Scott Clayton calling the shots for them is the right decision though.
I still favor a mid first rounder for them but under the proviso they have to trade it for an established player.

[GVGjr]

Interim coach Leigh Adams and 4 players (not yet named) have had positive Covid tests.
Essendon should have a field day with them

[MrMahatma]

Interim coach Leigh Adams and 4 players (not yet named) have had positive Covid tests.
Essendon should have a field day with them

Gee… 3rd string coach gets the gig?

I mean, I’m pretty glad it’s not Richmond or the Saints playing them this week.

[mjp]

Interim coach Leigh Adams and 4 players (not yet named) have had positive Covid tests.
Essendon should have a field day with them

I guess I'm curious as to why you think changes to the team will make them worse?

Essendon should have a field day with them regardless...as reluctant as I am to admit it, they are playing well right now. You can make all the jokes you like about that being because the pressure is off or whatever but the Bombers are dangerous right now and given they play Richmond in the last week I am glad that they are.

We really need Brisbane to take care of business with Richmond this week and hope either Essendon or Hawthorn (or BOTH) at least make it interesting...our run home remains very challenging.

[GVGjr]

I guess I'm curious as to why you think changes to the team will make them worse?

Essendon should have a field day with them regardless...as reluctant as I am to admit it, they are playing well right now. You can make all the jokes you like about that being because the pressure is off or whatever but the Bombers are dangerous right now and given they play Richmond in the last week I am glad that they are.

We really need Brisbane to take care of business with Richmond this week and hope either Essendon or Hawthorn (or BOTH) at least make it interesting...our run home remains very challenging.

Depends on the players concerned but the last thing I would think North need to lose is 4 players and the thinning of the coaching ranks a bit further.

Essendon have under performed to their ability and I can see the likes of Merrett racking up a swag of possessions. North might have some problems countering Peter Wright as well.

[Mantis]

Essendon have under performed to their ability and I can see the likes of Merrett racking up a swag of possessions. North might have some problems countering Peter Wright as well.

In the last 3 weeks Merrett has had 31, 36 & 38 touches so regardless of who he is playing he is being allowed to get lots of the ball.

[Bulldog4life]

In the last 3 weeks Merrett has had 31, 36 & 38 touches so regardless of who he is playing he is being allowed to get lots of the ball.

Heard him say earlier in the year he was playing a more defensive role. Now they have taken the shackles off him he was much happier.

[Grantysghost]

Depends on the players concerned but the last thing I would think North need to lose is 4 players and the thinning of the coaching ranks a bit further.

Essendon have under performed to their ability and I can see the likes of Merrett racking up a swag of possessions. North might have some problems countering Peter Wright as well.

I reckon they're about right. I picked them to be bottom 4-6. Really overachieved last season. They've look like they've let the handbrake off when the season is done and dusted which may be not a true indication of where they're at.

Only game I've been surprised with is the Swans one.

[Mantis]

Heard him say earlier in the year he was playing a more defensive role. Now they have taken the shackles off him he was much happier.

Merrett, defend?... He plays the game completely on his terms.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I reckon they're about right. I picked them to be bottom 4-6. Really overachieved last season. They've look like they've let the handbrake off when the season is done and dusted which may be not a true indication of where they're at.

Only game I've been surprised with is the Swans one.

I understand that thinking - I view the competition as being pretty even excluding the bottom 2 teams, and winning your close games makes all the difference as to whether you are in or out of the 8. I tend to think that early in the season for whatever reason the Dons were a little off the boil and didnt win any close games. They've got their game up and running and are more threatening now. They dont have an over abundance of talent but they are playing more cohesively and giving themselves a shot.

[Topdog]

I understand that thinking - I view the competition as being pretty even excluding the bottom 2 teams, and winning your close games makes all the difference as to whether you are in or out of the 8. I tend to think that early in the season for whatever reason the Dons were a little off the boil and didnt win any close games. They've got their game up and running and are more threatening now. They dont have an over abundance of talent but they are playing more cohesively and giving themselves a shot.

In the 1st 10 rounds of the season they were 1-1 for games under 2 goals.

[Happy Days]

Anyone else badly need a team to not choke/belt Collingwood so we never have to hear about their “situational training” again?

I’m pretty sure actually every team could move the ball from end to end in 10 seconds if the other team decides not to defend them at all.

[soupman]

Anyone else badly need a team to not choke/belt Collingwood so we never have to hear about their “situational training” again?

I’m pretty sure actually every team could move the ball from end to end in 10 seconds if the other team decides not to defend them at all.

And I imagine most teams planning would not involve the last play being a 2 on 1 mark where 90% of the work was from the opposition misreading the flight.

[Bulldog4life]

Merrett, defend?... He plays the game completely on his terms.

Not according to Zach. You can hear it in the first minute if interested. Said he was playing in back half.

https://www.essendonfc.com.au/video/1176714/icymi-merrett-on-afl-360-july-19

[Bulldog4life]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/north-melbourne-kangaroos/afl-news-2022-north-melbourne-bid-for-alastair-clarkson-eddie-mcguire-report-future-gws-giants-coaching-great-latest/news-story/7a391993a918672e6078a8a822c33bc0

Roos ‘a real chance’ of signing Clarko after launching ‘all in’ bid.

[SquirrelGrip]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/north-melbourne-kangaroos/afl-news-2022-north-melbourne-bid-for-alastair-clarkson-eddie-mcguire-report-future-gws-giants-coaching-great-latest/news-story/7a391993a918672e6078a8a822c33bc0

Roos ‘a real chance’ of signing Clarko after launching ‘all in’ bid.

The article refers to Clarko having already put "his team" together. Who would be his assistant/other field? Most seem to have moved onto greener pastures.

[GVGjr]

Damien Barrett is reporting that Clarkson will coach North.

[bornadog]

Damien Barrett is reporting that Clarkson will coach North.

Good for North to have an ex player who has coached 4 premierships to come in.

[kruder]

Essendon can rot lol

[Grantysghost]

Damien Barrett is reporting that Clarkson will coach North.

Where does that leave the Essendon board members who treated Rutten like dirt?

[comrade]

Where does that leave the Essendon board members who treated Rutten like dirt?

Hopefully in this extended purgatory we’ve all been enjoying since 2004.

[azabob]

where does that leave the essendon board members who treated rutten like dirt?


hopefully in this extended purgatory we’ve all been enjoying since 2004.

>>>enter james hird<<<

[azabob]

Damien Barrett is reporting that Clarkson will coach North.

Every other media organisation has now jumped on...

Surely they all couldn't be wrong... oh wait... Ben Rutten being sacked on Monday...

[bornadog]

Every other media organisation has now jumped on...

Surely they all couldn't be wrong... oh wait... Ben Rutten being sacked on Monday...

Done deal.


Clarkson will coach North. His manager James Henderson has confirmed the deal to the AFL Live app

5 year deal

[Grantysghost]

>>>enter james hird<<<

https://media.giphy.com/media/fLbs3EdhlpMkReL3fA/giphy.gif

[GVGjr]

Where does that leave the Essendon board members who treated Rutten like dirt?

I don't know if Rutten can coach or not from a tactical sense but it appears he has lost the players so from that sense the decision to move him on can be justified. I do give him full credit for working through the challenges of this week in the way he has.

Aza has made an interesting suggestion that with Clarkson out of the picture now does it open the door for a James Hird return?
How will that be received if true?

Well done for North, I'm not sure Clarkson is the answer but it's a feather in their cap to get the deal done.

[Grantysghost]

I don't know if Rutten can coach or not from a tactical sense but it appears he has lost the players so from that sense the decision to move him on can be justified. I do give him full credit for working through the challenges of this week in the way he has.

Aza has made an interesting suggestion that with Clarkson out of the picture now does it open the door for a James Hird return?
How will that be received if true?

Well done for North, I'm not sure Clarkson is the answer but it's a feather in their cap to get the deal done.

They beat the Lions and the Swans not that long ago I mean he must've lost them quick.

Their list isn't that flash, their depth is poor (vfl side has struggled for ages) not sure what the guy is expected to do.

Might be his own worst enemy over achieving last season.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Not a fan of Norf, but we can all agree that Clarkson going to Essendon would be BS celebration the media would slam down our throats all summer.

[EasternWest]

Not a fan of Norf, but we can all agree that Clarkson going to Essendon would be BS celebration the media would slam down our throats all summer.

Clarkson and Dodoro master team.

[SlimPickens]

I don't know if Rutten can coach or not from a tactical sense but it appears he has lost the players so from that sense the decision to move him on can be justified. I do give him full credit for working through the challenges of this week in the way he has.

Aza has made an interesting suggestion that with Clarkson out of the picture now does it open the door for a James Hird return?
How will that be received if true?

Well done for North, I'm not sure Clarkson is the answer but it's a feather in their cap to get the deal done.

The god complex is strong at Tullamarine. I have no doubt that Hird will be the next coach at Essington and my lord it will be hilarious.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Not a fan of Norf, but we can all agree that Clarkson going to Essendon would be BS celebration the media would slam down our throats all summer.

There was already a graphic of Clarkson in bombers colours holding up a premiership cup. Wish I was smart enough to find it

[Axe Man]

There was already a graphic of Clarkson in bombers colours holding up a premiership cup. Wish I was smart enough to find it

Wrong colours but they move quick!
https://i.postimg.cc/LsNG6J7x/north.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[macca]

Clarkson going to North speaks volumes of how bad it is at Essendon
At least Clarko would have some good relationships from his playing days and background politics ( which I assume he will take on to sort out their mess)

love it Essendon got overlooked by him … more years in the wildernesses for the bombers . Please bring back Hird

It be interesting from North List management. To see what happens with some of their players and how Clarkson team handles it

[Twodogs]

Not a fan of Norf, but we can all agree that Clarkson going to Essendon would be BS celebration the media would slam down our throats all summer.

Agree on both counts. Hate North but I'm glad we don't have to put up with the Essendon circle jerk until reality hits next season.

We just have to look forward to them winning the trade period and then we can get on with normality

[Dancin' Douggy]

Now we get the added pleasure of salty Essendon fans ringing in lamenting about not getting Clarkson. Yesterday they were gloating and taunting North supporters about Clarkson. Ooohhh sweet lord this is good.

[GVGjr]

Clarkson going to North speaks volumes of how bad it is at Essendon
At least Clarko would have some good relationships from his playing days and background politics ( which I assume he will take on to sort out their mess)

love it Essendon got overlooked by him … more years in the wildernesses for the bombers . Please bring back Hird

It be interesting from North List management. To see what happens with some of their players and how Clarkson team handles it

I think if Essendon had contacted him a week or two earlier you never know how this might have played out.

What will Clarkson and his team bring North Melbourne next season?
Would a 10% jump in membership number be achievable? That would get them well over 50K membership base.
I think they are also about to announce a new sponsor but will others come on board?

I wonder what this will do for North.

[macca]

What will Clarkson and his team bring North Melbourne next season?
Would a 10% jump in membership number be achievable? That would get them well over 50K membership base.
I think they are also about to announce a new sponsor but will others come on board?

I wonder what this will do for North.
Agree, first question I thought . If there are gaps in the playing list and players not ready to play his game style ( physically or just skill wise ) it be interesting to see how plays out .

Clarkson has the experienced though in cleaning out a playing list from his Hawk days . And not afraid to take on the board with the runs in achievements

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think if Essendon had contacted him a week or two earlier you never know how this might have played out.

What will Clarkson and his team bring North Melbourne next season?
Would a 10% jump in membership number be achievable? That would get them well over 50K membership base.
I think they are also about to announce a new sponsor but will others come on board?

I wonder what this will do for North.

For a start, he makes them relevant.

He's a great get for them. With time, he can properly put the pieces in place as he did twice for Hawthorn. I think his downfall was he tried to do a 'quick fix' at the Hawks with Mitchell/O'Meara/Wingard etc. but with a 5 year deal at North, he's got time.

More than anything, he will bring stability and leadership, which brings the club and its people closer together. That's half the battle.

[Mofra]

North fans hate Essendon so it's doubly sweet for them. Let them enjoy today, it's been a rough few years for them

[josie]

North fans hate Essendon so it's doubly sweet for them. Let them enjoy today, it's been a rough few years for them

I don’t mind North. I’ve found their fans humble and ok. A smaller vic club with working class roots, like us. Happy for them. Will be interesting to see how Clarko goes. Wonder if the romance of having payed for them (& possibly board members who played with him if that’s the case) may have contributed ever so slightly to his decision? Probably not, but not impossible.

[bornadog]

Good Old Tom Browne reporting

Clarkson has made his first big move at North, parting ways with the footy boss Daniel McPherson.

[azabob]

Good Old Tom Browne reporting

Clarkson has made his first big move at North, parting ways with the footy boss Daniel McPherson.

Wouldn't the footy boss be Clarkson boss?

[GVGjr]

Good Old Tom Browne reporting

Clarkson has made his first big move at North, parting ways with the footy boss Daniel McPherson.

I thought they said he doesn't start until Nov 1st which is part of the Hawthorn agreement.

[bornadog]

I thought they said he doesn't start until Nov 1st which is part of the Hawthorn agreement.

Also: Assistant coaches Heath Younie and Anthony Rocca have also left the club

[GVGjr]

There is a bit of speculation that Simon Dalrymple might be heading to North.
That would be a significant coup for them in a revitalized Footy department.

[Bulldog Revolution]

There is a bit of speculation that Simon Dalrymple might be heading to North.
That would be a significant coup for them in a revitalized Footy department.

Massive coup if true

Swans have picked very good kids with him in the team

[azabob]

There is a bit of speculation that Simon Dalrymple might be heading to North.
That would be a significant coup for them in a revitalized Footy department.

That is a huge get.

We've had a few off field staff get away.

[bornadog]

Wouldn't the footy boss be Clarkson boss?

You would think so, but maybe that was one of his conditions of joining

[GVGjr]

On Fox Sports (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/north-melbourne-kangaroos/afl-news-2022-north-melbourne-assistance-package-priority-pick-asking-for-extra-list-spots-rookies-draft-picks-kangaroos-problems/news-story/bb2ff621860ec73767c490be71a0079e)

North Melbourne has asked the AFL for a larger playing list as part of an assistance package that would also include priority draft picks, reports AFL Media.

The Kangaroos began meeting with the league to bid for help in July, days after they beat Richmond, and have since gone on to claim their second consecutive wooden spoon.

Previous reports have stated the Kangaroos are keen to land draft points over multiple seasons, meaning a number of lower picks, rather than a high selection such as Pick 1 (which was given to Gold Coast in 2019).

But they’re also keen to be given an increased rookie list, following in the footsteps of the Suns’ 2019 assistance package.

At that time Gold Coast was allowed to list up to 10 extra rookies, meaning extra chances at finding diamonds in the rough. Connor Budarick and Malcolm Rosas were among those added to their rookie list at that time.

North Melbourne is said to be seeking two extra spots on its list along with draft picks.

A decision is likely to be made in the week before the Grand Final giving them a couple of weeks to make calls ahead of the trade period.

The Kangaroos reportedly used the examples of Gold Coast in 2019, Carlton in 2018 and Brisbane in 2016 as a basis for their proposal.

The Suns’ 2019 assistance package included picks 1 and 20 in the 2019 draft, pick 11 in 2020 and pick 19 in 2021, plus pre-access to Academy prospects and an increased rookie list.

The Blues, off eight wins in two seasons and five years without finals footy, were allowed to pre-list two state league players.

The Lions were given pick 19 in the 2016 draft following 14 wins across three seasons.

North Melbourne has won six games with a draw over the last two seasons, plus three wins in the shortened 2020 campaign.

[Boots]

Geez some rules about priority picks and other assistance would be good. I can see the rationale for a larger rookie list but I’d also love to see a set of triggers and limits for it set down somewhere.

[GVGjr]

Geez some rules about priority picks and other assistance would be good. I can see the rationale for a larger rookie list but I’d also love to see a set of triggers and limits for it set down somewhere.

The AFL is probably reluctant to do it because it might also trigger tanking speculation.
The way North dismantled their side a few years back was a very risky move that obviously hasn't worked out for them and the AFL need to consider if having an noncompetitive side is acceptable.
They've got the number one pick and not much else this year to work with and while Clarkson will get them a couple of decent established players it may not be enough to make any inroads.

Perhaps an end of first round priority pick and two extra list spots will help them.
They may look to split pick one to given them some more trade and draft currency. They may also look to move on Horne-Francis

[hujsh]

I can see more value in the rookie list because it doesn't impact other clubs draft hands and if successful increases the overall tallent pool in the league.

TBH I think having a larger rookie list for every club would be valuable. Or maybe just larger playing lists. But you'd need to increase the soft cap so clubs have the capacity to actually handle the extra players I'd imagine.

[soupman]

I can see more value in the rookie list because it doesn't impact other clubs draft hands and if successful increases the overall tallent pool in the league.


Could be other benefits too. If they are seriously considering bringing in a Tassie team allowing every team to have another 4 rookies would be a good way to get 72 extra players into the system before they have to dilute the pool again.

[Grantysghost]

North CEO has resigned. Ben Amarfio.

[Mofra]

North CEO has resigned. Ben Amarfio.
Not popular among North fans.
Nor Cricket Australia a few years back either.

[Sedat]

Not popular among North fans.
Nor Cricket Australia a few years back either.
Not popular at Austereo before that as well.

[azabob]

Not popular among North fans.
Nor Cricket Australia a few years back either.

Lawyers for CA and Channel 7 like him.

He is the main reason why CA and Channel 7 are in court over the current TV rights.

[merantau]

His old man, Kimpo, was a top fighter in the 50s and 60s. He fought the Main Event on the first ever TV Ringside, August 8, 1966 and knocked out Arthur Thomas in Rd 1 with a crisp left hook.

http://www.sportenote.com/vedi_dettagli.asp?id=60867

[Twodogs]

His old man, Kimpo, was a top fighter in the 50s and 60s. He fought the Main Event on the first ever TV Ringside, August 8, 1966 and knocked out Arthur Thomas in Rd 1 with a crisp left hook.

http://www.sportenote.com/vedi_dettagli.asp?id=60867

I notice that one of his trainers wayJack Rennie. When I was at high school I was doing an assignment about Lionel Rose so I looked up Jack's phone number in the old White Pages and rang him up.

The person who answered the phone said he wasn't there at the time but took my number and said he'd give me a call if he got a chance. I remember thinking "oh yeah, sure thing" but that night the phone rang and Jack Rennie spent 45 minutes discussing Lionel Rose with me. Best assignment I ever did!

[Bulldog4life]

I notice that one of his trainers wayJack Rennie. When I was at high school I was doing an assignment about Lionel Rose so I looked up Jack's phone number in the old White Pages and rang him up.

The person who answered the phone said he wasn't there at the time but took my number and said he'd give me a call if he got a chance. I remember thinking "oh yeah, sure thing" but that night the phone rang and Jack Rennie spent 45 minutes discussing Lionel Rose with me. Best assignment I ever did!

Great dude to do an assignment on TD. I remember Lionel beating "Fighting Harada" to win the world championship.

[Jeanette54]

Great dude to do an assignment on TD. I remember Lionel beating "Fighting Harada" to win the world championship.

Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but didn't "Fammo" also fight and beat Harada.

[bornadog]

Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but didn't "Fammo" also fight and beat Harada.

Correct.

Lionel in 1968 - Bantam weight

Johnny in 1969 Feather weight

[Bulldog Joe]

Correct.

Lionel in 1968 - Bantam weight

Johnny in 1969 Feather weight

With both winning in Tokyo.

Fammo had an earlier title defence against Harada in Sydney and was awarded a points win by referee Willie Pep as the sole arbiter.

The home crowd booed the decision and made Fammo determined to give Harada another shot in Tokyo. He was also pretty determined to prove himself worthy and won by KO in round 14 (I think)

[Twodogs]

Great dude to do an assignment on TD. I remember Lionel beating "Fighting Harada" to win the world championship.

I couldn't believe it when my dad knocked on the door of my room and said "there's a bloke who reckons he's Jack Rennie on the phone wanting to speak to you"

My dad worked at the council with Barry Michael. One night many years ago at Docklands we were on the lift when Barry got in. He saw my dad and said "giddaye Norris. How are you mate? Geez it's good to see you" Dad's looked at him and given him the old "err, yeah! Giddaye ummmm, mate"

After we'd walked away I said "you don't know who that is do you?" Dad said "yeah. I worked with him at the council" "Yep. He's the featherweight World Champ too dad"

I told that story during dad's eulogy.

[Bulldog4life]

Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but didn't "Fammo" also fight and beat Harada.

Yes Jeanette been answered for you correctly.

[Bulldog4life]

Correct.

Lionel in 1968 - Bantam weight

Johnny in 1969 Feather weight

Strangely the 2 never fought each other despite pleas from the public and a promise of a big purse.

[Bulldog4life]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorn-s-contractual-warning-to-clarkson-20220914-p5bi48.html

Hawthorn’s contractual warning to Clarkson

Hawthorn have cautioned Alastair Clarkson about not violating his contractual obligations to the Hawks - under which he is still owed $450,000 - before the four-time premiership coach takes over as North Melbourne’s senior coach.

Sources familiar with the situation have confirmed that a Hawthorn official contacted Clarkson’s manager, James Henderson, to remind Clarkson that the agreement between the coach and the club barred him from poaching staff, players, or sponsors, in what was clearly a shot across the coach’s bow.

Clarkson is due to be paid about $450,000 - the second tranche of his $900,000 payout for his 2022 contract with Hawthorn - but the money is not to be paid until early or mid-November, after Clarkson has assumed his duties as North Melbourne coach.

Sources suggested that the phone call to Henderson - from Hawthorn’s head of legal, risk and integrity, ex-player Nick Holland - was prompted in-part by Clarkson wearing North Melbourne gear, with his new club’s major sponsor Mazda on the polo shirt, at the media conference announcing his appointment.

While it is plain to all within football that Clarkson is already influential in North’s football planning - having had his lieutenant and friend Todd Viney join the Kangaroos, and with the coach contacting a raft of players from other clubs - the severance agreement with Hawthorn has clauses that essentially prevent him from chasing Hawthorn staff, players and sponsors.

The Hawks, however, did not object to North Melbourne hiring ex-Hawthorn football official Cam Matthews in an upgraded role at North Melbourne, despite the obvious connection to Clarkson.

Clarkson also still has possession of a Nissan, a Hawks sponsor, as part of his employment conditions with Hawthorn. He is not due to start work at North Melbourne until November 1, a start date that was forced by his arrangement with Hawthorn, with the agreement with the Hawks in place until October 31.

The extent to which Hawthorn could enforce those contractual conditions on Clarkson, before he starts work at Arden Street, is debatable, given that North Melbourne could hire people - or recruit players - from Hawthorn in a way that is technically independent of Clarkson, even if he had relationships with those people.

Sources suggest that Hawthorn was acting, to some degree, to keep Clarkson away from their players and/or staff, knowing that he was still owed half of his payout, and that the driven coach has a track record of pursuing people he knows and rates highly, such as Viney.

Hawthorn owed Clarkson $900,000 as a result of the coach leaving the club with a year on his contract, with the parties agreeing to split the payout into two tranches, paid 12 months apart.

Sources said the AFL allowed Hawthorn to spread the payout into three lots of $300,000 - meaning that the Hawks will still be counting a third of Clarkson’s deal in the 2023 soft cap on football spending. The league permitted Hawthorn to spread the payout over three years, rather than one or two, in recognition that Clarkson signed a pre-pandemic contract, before the soft cap was crunched from $9.7m to (initially) $6.2m (it will be about $7m, not counting exemptions, in 2023).

The caution about Clarkson’s contractual obligations to the Hawks is arguably another instance of the fierce coach’s sometimes turbulent relationship with the club’s no less forceful president Jeff Kennett, who is stepping down from the presidency at the end of this year. Kennett strongly backed the coaching succession to Sam Mitchell, and then the fast-tracking of the handover when all parties decided it was problematic to have Clarkson coaching in 2022 with Mitchell in the wings and appointed for the long term.

[bornadog]

North’s draft assistance package (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/revealed-north-s-draft-assistance-package-20220919-p5bj92.html)
The AFL has granted North Melbourne future draft picks that must be traded for listed players as part of a special assistance package approved today.


The AFL has handed the Kangaroos a 2023 second and 2023 third round pick that must be traded to another club or clubs, for at least one player, under a draft assistance package aimed at making North Melbourne more competitive quickly.

The AFL also gave North the right to an additional two rookies on the list - a measure aimed at allowing the club to keep younger players while bringing in more mature talent.


Sources familiar with the AFL’s draft assistance for the Roos said the future picks had to be used in trades this year or they would cease to exist.
The league wanted to help North Melbourne without penalising rival clubs, and they did not want the Kangaroos to stockpile draft picks.


The assistance package can be used to help the Kangaroos complete deals for players they are recruiting during the trade period - such as Fremantle’s Griffin Logue, who intends to cross to Arden Street on a five-year deal.

[Happy Days]

So they have to trade the picks for players?

Can I interest you in All Australian Squad (level in 2019 according to Luke Beveridge) defender Hayden Crozier?

[hujsh]

North’s draft assistance package (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/revealed-north-s-draft-assistance-package-20220919-p5bj92.html)


The AFL has granted North Melbourne future draft picks that must be traded for listed players as part of a special assistance package approved today.


The AFL has handed the Kangaroos a 2023 second and 2023 third round pick that must be traded to another club or clubs, for at least one player, under a draft assistance package aimed at making North Melbourne more competitive quickly.

The AFL also gave North the right to an additional two rookies on the list - a measure aimed at allowing the club to keep younger players while bringing in more mature talent.


Sources familiar with the AFL’s draft assistance for the Roos said the future picks had to be used in trades this year or they would cease to exist.
The league wanted to help North Melbourne without penalising rival clubs, and they did not want the Kangaroos to stockpile draft picks.


The assistance package can be used to help the Kangaroos complete deals for players they are recruiting during the trade period - such as Fremantle’s Griffin Logue, who intends to cross to Arden Street on a five-year deal.

Worse crime than cheating

[GVGjr]

What should North be doing with the Clarkson situation? Do they need to have some contingencies in place?

[hujsh]

What should North be doing with the Clarkson situation? Do they need to have some contingencies in place?

Let's ask Dunks

[jazzadogs]

North’s draft assistance package (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/revealed-north-s-draft-assistance-package-20220919-p5bj92.html)
The AFL has granted North Melbourne future draft picks that must be traded for listed players as part of a special assistance package approved today.


The AFL has handed the Kangaroos a 2023 second and 2023 third round pick that must be traded to another club or clubs, for at least one player, under a draft assistance package aimed at making North Melbourne more competitive quickly.

The AFL also gave North the right to an additional two rookies on the list - a measure aimed at allowing the club to keep younger players while bringing in more mature talent.


Sources familiar with the AFL’s draft assistance for the Roos said the future picks had to be used in trades this year or they would cease to exist.
The league wanted to help North Melbourne without penalising rival clubs, and they did not want the Kangaroos to stockpile draft picks.


The assistance package can be used to help the Kangaroos complete deals for players they are recruiting during the trade period - such as Fremantle’s Griffin Logue, who intends to cross to Arden Street on a five-year deal.

Question re: draft assistance package. Would Brad Scott have been involved in this process, as part of his role at AFL? interesting if so, given he created the problems.

[mjp]

What should North be doing with the Clarkson situation? Do they need to have some contingencies in place?

You want to know what they should do?

Re-drive the coaching application process.

[Grantysghost]

You want to know what they should do?

Re-drive the coaching application process.

Get on the phone to Yze, I think the Bombers have made a mistake there. No coincidence Melbourne came good when he arrived IMO.

[Rocket Science]

Get on the phone to Yze, I think the Bombers have made a mistake there. No coincidence Melbourne came good when he arrived IMO.

They evidently weren't ready for the maddest dog.

https://i.ibb.co/pJRhCPx/Screen-Shot-2022-09-30-at-2-44-19-pm.png (https://ibb.co/86dYFB0)

[Grantysghost]

They evidently weren't ready for the maddest dog.

https://i.ibb.co/pJRhCPx/Screen-Shot-2022-09-30-at-2-44-19-pm.png (https://ibb.co/86dYFB0)

Oh dear

[macca]

Question re: draft assistance package. Would Brad Scott have been involved in this process, as part of his role at AFL? interesting if so, given he created the problems.

Jazza, I love your hint to political cynism there. Create the problem.. parachute in to provide the solution with an assistance package .

[Grantysghost]

Still want Thomas? Can't believe he's on 700k

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/north-melbourne-kangaroos/afl-news-2022-tarryn-thomas-police-investigation-intimidatory-behaviour-towards-exgirlfriend-online-north-melbourne-kangaroos/news-story/4a6902769aca680df47fc66da3f60bda

[GVGjr]

Still want Thomas? Can't believe he's on 700k

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/north-melbourne-kangaroos/afl-news-2022-tarryn-thomas-police-investigation-intimidatory-behaviour-towards-exgirlfriend-online-north-melbourne-kangaroos/news-story/4a6902769aca680df47fc66da3f60bda

It's a strange world in the AFL. Some can't handle it.

[hujsh]

Is it worse than what Dusty did way back when? The AFL is a forgiving industry if you have talent and can perform.

[Dogs 24/7]

Is it worse than what Dusty did way back when? The AFL is a forgiving industry if you have talent and can perform.

Very true. Rules are inconsistently applied because it all depends on how good you are.

[Bulldog4life]

Still want Thomas? Can't believe he's on 700k

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/north-melbourne-kangaroos/afl-news-2022-tarryn-thomas-police-investigation-intimidatory-behaviour-towards-exgirlfriend-online-north-melbourne-kangaroos/news-story/4a6902769aca680df47fc66da3f60bda

Young and dumb and too much money.

[Bulldog4life]

RATTEN TO REUNITE WITH CLARKSON IN NORTH MELBOURNE MOVE

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/24/ratten-to-reunite-with-clarkson-in-north-melbourne-move/

[hujsh]

RATTEN TO REUNITE WITH CLARKSON IN NORTH MELBOURNE MOVE

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/24/ratten-to-reunite-with-clarkson-in-north-melbourne-move/

Perfect. What could go wrong with Clarkson getting the old band back together?

[bornadog]

Perfect. What could go wrong with Clarkson getting the old band back together?

I wonder if they confiscated mobiles?

[GVGjr]

RATTEN TO REUNITE WITH CLARKSON IN NORTH MELBOURNE MOVE

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/24/ratten-to-reunite-with-clarkson-in-north-melbourne-move/

Part time role is interesting. I'm glad he has landed a role.

[Dancin' Douggy]

so has the whole treatment of indigenous players by Hawthorn just fizzled out? From the most jaw droppingly shocking expose to a meh.......... Clarkson is a legend......... Is that what happened? (I just got back from Overseas)

[hujsh]

so has the whole treatment of indigenous players by Hawthorn just fizzled out? From the most jaw droppingly shocking expose to a meh.......... Clarkson is a legend......... Is that what happened? (I just got back from Overseas)

Very surprising isn't it. Just waiting on the AFL report that won't have the witnesses from the initial report to conveniently fall to find any evidence of the allegations being true.

[GVGjr]

‘Clarko’s Cluster’ volume two? (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/01/31/clarkos-cluster-volume-two-early-indications-of-clarkons-roos-game-plan/)

https://images.ctfassets.net/u8w3l566ay8a/5DTqGd11dWJhoidx9KyFi2/2ca8d2b05353622a2636308419b73f0a/GettyImages-1458631856.jpg?w=980&h=520&fit=fill&f=faces

Is Alastair Clarkson set to initiate a new version of ‘Clarko’s Cluster’ at North Melbourne?

In his return to the coaching box after 12 months in the wilderness, it’d be silly to assume Clarkson isn’t assured of the way he wants the Kangaroos to play in 2023 and beyond.

The four-time premiership coach spent 2022 in a number of high-performance environments, including Ange Postecoglou’s Celtic, the Golden State Warriors and the Green Bay Packers.

In recent years we’ve also seen the ‘Weagles Web’, while ‘Pagan’s Paddock’ was amongst the first game plan to be coined with a flashy name.

As SEN’s Sam Edmund revealed to SEN Breakfast, early indications are Clarkson may have a new plan to break down the opposition’s defensive press.

‘Clarko’s Cluster’ was famously a Hawthorn defensive tactic to protect the middle of the ground, and while Edmund's indication is just that without the finer details, it could provide context to what fans will see in 2023.

“Alastair Clarkson at North Melbourne… what I’m hearing is the Kangaroos boys are working on a game plan called the ‘whirlpool’,” Edmund revealed.

“Now as best I can tell, it centres on how they bring the ball out of the back half of the ground. They’re confronted as they’re coming out (of defence), whether it be Aaron Hall or Tarryn Thomas or any of their runners, with the defensive grid of the other team.

“It’s an old-fashioned switching of the play, but switching of the play back and forth to unsettle the defensive grid, hence the whirlpool nature of the ball movement.

“It’s all around – and this would be simplifying it massively – how they come out of their back half at Melbourne.

“Maybe the ‘Whirlpool’ might be one to look out for.”

Clarkson comes to Ardern Street after 17 seasons as Hawthorn left him with the reputation as the greatest coach of the modern era.

In footage published by North Melbourne, the 54-year-old told players on his first day: “We’re searching for players that can play in an AFL premiership team.

“There’s a lot of blokes capable of playing league footy and there’s a lot of them that will get that opportunity – they can play, but can they play at the highest level on the last day in September and be part of a team that holds the silverware at the end of the day.”

New skipper Luke McDonald recently told SEN the Kangaroos were buying into what Clarkson was putting down.

“The energy that Clarko has brought in since he’s got here with his new acquisitions has just been unbelievable,” McDonald told SEN Breakfast.

“All of the boys and the whole club has really bought in.”

Ahead of the 2023 season, the Kangaroos appear the most settled off-field as they’ve been in years. Todd Viney came in with Clarkson as the club’s GM of footy, Sonja Hood has made her presence felt as president, while Jennifer Watt was appointed as CEO late last year.

The club claimed last year’s wooden spoon with two wins, yet optimism has increased following Clarkson’s appointment.

[Dry Rot]

‘Clarko’s Cluster’ volume two? (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/01/31/clarkos-cluster-volume-two-early-indications-of-clarkons-roos-game-plan/)


“Alastair Clarkson at North Melbourne… what I’m hearing is the Kangaroos boys are working on a game plan called the ‘whirlpool’,” Edmund revealed.

“Now as best I can tell, it centres on how they bring the ball out of the back half of the ground. They’re confronted as they’re coming out (of defence), whether it be Aaron Hall or Tarryn Thomas or any of their runners, with the defensive grid of the other team.

“It’s an old-fashioned switching of the play, but switching of the play back and forth to unsettle the defensive grid, hence the whirlpool nature of the ball movement.

“It’s all around – and this would be simplifying it massively – how they come out of their back half at Melbourne.



So this requires disciplined positioning and accurate disposal by a bottom 3 team.

What could possibly go wrong?

[Axe Man]

Multiple women have detailed allegations to the AFL of threats and harassment by Tarryn Thomas (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/multiple-women-have-detailed-allegations-to-the-afl-of-threats-and-harassment-by-tarryn-thomas/news-story/c12ad04b349b5b6c67d7de95acb5c1b1)

Multiple women have detailed allegations to the AFL of harassment and threatening and intimidating behaviour by North Melbourne star Tarryn Thomas.

At least one of the women has been provided with a psychologist by the league after being hospitalised as a result of an incident last year.

The AFL said the behaviour alleged to them was “family violence” and offered to facilitate meetings with detectives from a family violence investigation unit.

Thomas, 22, has faced no disciplinary action from the league or his club over his alleged conduct.

He was charged this month with threatening to distribute an intimate image following a three-month police investigation involving another woman.

Allegations against Thomas detailed to the AFL integrity unit include:

● Telling a woman he wanted to beat her and calling her names such as “a slut”.

● Throwing a lamp at a woman in a hotel room.

● Sending threatening text messages, declaring “your time is coming” and that he was “going to bash” a woman’s friend.

● A verbal and physical altercation at a Prahran nightclub.

The AFL integrity department informed one of the women last July that the behaviour alleged to them was “not acceptable”.

In a flurry of text messages, Thomas tells a woman: “You’re a f —king joke … keep talking sh-t … sh-t going to come around soon … your turn will come … sh-t is going to go down … I’m not a n---- to be f —ked with.”

Another woman claimed of Thomas in a text to friends last year: “I’m too scared … i know he’s gonna kill me”.

Another victim has detailed how Thomas sent intimate pictures he had taken of her to others.

Two of the women have expressed disappointment at the AFL’s handling of their complaints.

One victim told the Herald Sun: “It’s discouraging to see that the AFL and North Melbourne are aware how many women have (made allegations against Tarryn), yet it is still being overlooked.

“It feels as though Tarryn is untouchable and the women he has affected have been silenced, due to fear and power imbalance. The women affected have been offered counselling sessions by the AFL which just feels like an attempt to keep us at bay by making us feel like they care and are supporting us so we are less inclined to speak up.

“Tarryn is being treated like he has committed a white-collar crime but there is nothing white-collar about threatening, intimidating, abusing, assaulting and stalking multiple women. This makes me feel like he is untouchable and on a pedestal and I question whether this would be the same had it been a different player or team”.

The AFL reached out to several of the women on Monday after the Herald Sun put questions to the league about Thomas’ alleged conduct.

The move caused further distress to one victim who claimed: “The AFL just protect their own, they don’t care. I’m over it.

“Tarryn hasn’t had a ban or fine or taken a pay cut, hasn’t put out any public statements, hasn’t made any public or personal apologies, North Melbourne haven’t done any of that either. All they did was cover up for him all year last year while he played VFL because he was too busy partying, stalking girls, threatening us and going to court. They covered it all up.

“He’s psychologically traumatised me for the rest of my life. I’m in so much treatment to work through the damage he’s caused”.

An AFL spokesperson said on Tuesday: “Any allegation of threats of violence against women is unacceptable and is behaviour that the AFL takes extremely seriously. The AFL has worked with Victoria Police regarding North Melbourne player Tarryn Thomas and after receiving some new information put to us by the Herald Sun, the AFL reached out directly to those persons known to us.

“The AFL has offered and will continue to provide wellbeing support to any person who has come forward with an allegation.

“The AFL has investigated all formal complaints where appropriate and where there have been allegations of criminal behaviour have facilitated contact with Victoria Police who are the most appropriate body to investigate allegations of that nature.

“Tarryn Thomas is currently the subject of criminal charges over a reported incident and while that matter is yet to be finalised in court, the AFL will continue to work with NMFC and Victoria Police and will monitor the outcome of the police action.”

The Herald Sun is not suggesting the allegations against Thomas are true, only that they have been made.

North Melbourne declined to comment.

Thomas, drafted at pick eight in the 2018 AFL draft, is regarded as one of North’s most promising players.

[jazzadogs]

Career ending, season ending, or swept under the rug? Unbelievable that he has had no disciplinary action.

I am not suggesting the allegations against Thomas are true, only that they have been made.

[hujsh]

Career ending, season ending, or swept under the rug? Unbelievable that he has had no disciplinary action.

I am not suggesting the allegations against Thomas are true, only that they have been made.

They've already killed all claims at caring about anything aside from on field success with bringing Clarkson back. May as well go the whole hog.

[1eyedog]

Clarko will sort him out.

[bornadog]

Clarko will sort him out.

Take his mobile?

[Axe Man]

Clarko will sort him out.

Fagan is already on his way.

[EasternWest]

Crikey

[bornadog]

Crikey

It's worse. North have released a statement see here (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/02/01/north-melbourne-releases-statement-following-thomas-accusations/)

In summary:


North Melbourne president Dr Sonja Hood has released a statement regarding Tarryn Thomas.Thomas has been accused by multiple women of harassment, assault and threatening behaviour.
Hood said they take the allegations seriously and that Thomas co-operated with the AFL regarding the incidents.
However, they will not be taking any further action against the player at this stage.

[hujsh]

It's worse. North have released a statement see here (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/02/01/north-melbourne-releases-statement-following-thomas-accusations/)

In summary:

Well lets not jump the gun, it's only multiple women. Once it's a hoard we'll suspend him for 4 weeks.

[mjp]

You don't want them to support him in trying to make a change?

I'm not sure what we want here - we want the person to acknowledge their behaviour and rehabilitate it but at the same time we want to take the safety net out of the way whilst they do that?

Footy should be the least of his concerns right now but I would like to think his employer should work with him rather than simply cast him out. I have no idea about Taryn Thomas and his background but right now I think he needs help...as (of course) do any of the victims of his alleged behaviour.

[EasternWest]

You don't want them to support him in trying to make a change?

I'm not sure what we want here - we want the person to acknowledge their behaviour and rehabilitate it but at the same time we want to take the safety net out of the way whilst they do that?

Footy should be the least of his concerns right now but I would like to think his employer should work with him rather than simply cast him out. I have no idea about Taryn Thomas and his background but right now I think he needs help...as (of course) do any of the victims of his alleged behaviour.

You're absolutely right but this behaviour should have repercussions at his workspace as well - particularly one so in the public eye.

I'd rather they stand him down from all competition (intra club etc) but allow him to continue training. I dunno, it's a hard one but there needs to be a punishment/support balance there.

[GVGjr]

You don't want them to support him in trying to make a change?

I'm not sure what we want here - we want the person to acknowledge their behaviour and rehabilitate it but at the same time we want to take the safety net out of the way whilst they do that?

Footy should be the least of his concerns right now but I would like to think his employer should work with him rather than simply cast him out. I have no idea about Taryn Thomas and his background but right now I think he needs help...as (of course) do any of the victims of his alleged behaviour.

The support clubs can provide players is enormous and agree that he needs help and support at the moment. It's a terrible look but probably very complex.

[Mofra]

Career ending, season ending, or swept under the rug? Unbelievable that he has had no disciplinary action.

I am not suggesting the allegations against Thomas are true, only that they have been made.
https://www.bigfooty.com/2023/02/dr-sonja-hood-stands-with-tarryn-thomas-through-serious-dv-allegations/

An attempt at sweeping it under the rug.
That rug's getting pretty high so it may not work

[Sedat]

Tarryn Thomas' repeated pattern of (alleged) abusive and predatory behaviour and the miniscule media coverage it has received to date seems to be in sharp contrast to Jordan De Goey's filmed one-off and consentual (albeit tacky) behaviour in Bali last year and the massive outrage that received at the time. I'm not condoning De Goey by a long shot, but the hysteria from last year was over the top by the usual holier-than-thou pious media mouthpieces, the same ones who have not yet uttered a word about Thomas.

[hujsh]

You don't want them to support him in trying to make a change?

I'm not sure what we want here - we want the person to acknowledge their behaviour and rehabilitate it but at the same time we want to take the safety net out of the way whilst they do that?

Footy should be the least of his concerns right now but I would like to think his employer should work with him rather than simply cast him out. I have no idea about Taryn Thomas and his background but right now I think he needs help...as (of course) do any of the victims of his alleged behaviour.

I believe in rehabilitation. You still face consequences for your behaviour as part of that. I assume we both agree you can't just 'harass, assault and threaten' women, especially as a somewhat famous young man that much younger men will look up to in a society with a major domesic abuse problem, and literally do nothing aside from offer 'education'.

I'm not exactly advocating to throw the guy in jail here and he's getting off lighter that most people probably would if they were publicly accused of the same thing. I bet most of our employers wouldn't develop a "significant and multi-layered program which includes respectful relationships education, working with psychologists, mentoring, peer support and community outreach" for us.


I will admit my judgement me be a bit affected by my current view of North post the Clarkson accusations, but I don't think I'm being unfair even taking that into account.

[The bulldog tragician]

I believe in rehabilitation. You still face consequences for your behaviour as part of that. I assume we both agree you can't just 'harass, assault and threaten' women, especially as a somewhat famous young man that much younger men will look up to in a society with a major domesic abuse problem, and literally do nothing aside from offer 'education'.

I'm not exactly advocating to throw the guy in jail here and he's getting off lighter that most people probably would if they were publicly accused of the same thing. I bet most of our employers wouldn't develop a "significant and multi-layered program which includes respectful relationships education, working with psychologists, mentoring, peer support and community outreach" for us.


I will admit my judgement me be a bit affected by my current view of North post the Clarkson accusations, but I don't think I'm being unfair even taking that into account.
I get a bit jaded with the idea that in 2023 any person needs educating that things like this IF TRUE are unacceptable:

● Telling a woman he wanted to beat her and calling her names such as “a slut”.

● Throwing a lamp at a woman in a hotel room.

● Sending threatening text messages, declaring “your time is coming” and that he was “going to bash” a woman’s friend.

These aren’t exactly finely nuanced and delicate new developments in gender relations.

[hujsh]

I get a bit jaded with the idea that in 2023 any person needs educating that things like this IF TRUE are unacceptable:

● Telling a woman he wanted to beat her and calling her names such as “a slut”.

● Throwing a lamp at a woman in a hotel room.

● Sending threatening text messages, declaring “your time is coming” and that he was “going to bash” a woman’s friend.

These aren’t exactly finely nuanced and delicate new developments in gender relations.

I'll be honest I held back a bit for not knowing the details of the behavour, just what was in the statement. I'm guessing if you do those things there's some level of self delusion going on to convince yourself you're not a bad person. Being a semi-celebrity probably doesn't help either.