Grant - The Champion Tag?

[LostDoggy]

I was listening to SEN this morning debating if someone should be classed as a champion.

For what it's worth I think that is a vastly over used expression.

When looking back on the career of Chris Grant I would be interested to know if our loyal Bulldog supporters here really class him as a champion footballer?

I don't think we can doubt that he is a champion person and they fact that he has been fantastic for the club but I suppose when I talk to friends of other clubs there is mixed feelings about the Chris Grant = Champion tag.

On a scale of 1 to 5 with 5 being allocated for the true champions of the game where does Chris Grant really rate?

You can use .5 ratings as well if you like.

Billy

[Go_Dogs]

Did you read the Chris Grant piece Rocket did for the AFL.com site last year, when Granty played his record breaking game? Eade summed it up perfectly. He said something along the lines of, the mark of a champion is the ability to not only play when injured, but to play courageously, and that Chris has done that time and time again, whilst suffering numerous disappointments and serious injuries. He could have easily won 2 Brownlow medals. He's a champion as much as Robert Harvey, or James Hird, or any of those blokes are.

[Twodogs]

If he'd had the brownlow(s) and the premiership he so richly deserved we wouldnt be having this conversation.

[Sockeye Salmon]

If he'd had the brownlow(s) and the premiership he so richly deserved we wouldnt be having this conversation.

I can't believe someone thought there was a need to raise the question.

Billy, I suspect you are just trying to get a bit of traffic happening on this website (which is good), but if you were serious about asking it you should have spent the last 17 years watching him rather than reading the Herald-Sun.

[Topdog]

I'd easily call him a champion. Honestly if it weren't for Carey than Grant would have been the most talked about player of the 90's There were times where Grant would just control game, after game, after game. Be it in attack or in defense. His ability to be in the top 3 in the league in 2 positions at the same time shouldn't go unrecognised.

[Sockeye Salmon]

If Grant had taken Port's money he would probably be a 3-time premiership captain and given that Port would have had the luxury of playing Tredrea at CHF, would probably be recognised as the greatest CHB of our generation.

[bornadog]

He could have easily won 2 Brownlow medals.

Yes we know what happened in 1997 but as well 1996, there is arguement to say he could have tied for the brownlow if we had have won the last game if the year. You may remember we lost by less than a goal to Essendon, Hird got three votes and Grant 2. Grant ran second in the brownlow by one vote.

Champion is an understatement when it comes to Grant.

[Go_Dogs]

Yes we know what happened in 1997 but as well 1996, there is arguement to say he could have tied for the brownlow if we had have won the last game if the year. You may remember we lost by less than a goal to Essendon, Hird got three votes and Grant 2. Grant ran second in the brownlow by one vote.

To James Hird, who pinched the 3 in the last round! :mad:

[bulldogtragic]

Billy the problem is with your opening line. Listening to the midinformed rumour peddling hacks on SEN is what kills brain cells. :) Chris Grant is not only a club champion, but a sporting champion of any code by any standard.

[BulldogBelle]

He is definitely a champion, he might not have a Premiership Medal to hang around his neck or perhaps that Brownlow Medal that was so unjustly removed from him. His worth, courageousness, skill and his determination is something that will never be forgotten especially when we start to reminisce his career after he hangs up the boots. As for rating Chris Grant - a 5 no doubt in my mind.

These "tags" that the media put on players really annoys me at times - l seem to remember a similar thing mentioned about Doug Hawkins because he never played in a Premiership side and because he hadn't won a Brownlow.

[Sockeye Salmon]

To James Hird, who pinched the 3 in the last round! :mad:

Steve Kretiuk tried to pass to Craig Ellis at CHB instead of going long, along the boundary. There was only 17 seconds left.

The pass went over Horse's head and Mark Mercuri run onto it and goaled from about 40 out. They won by 3 points.

One of the umpires came out last year and said they would have given Grant 3 votes had the Dogs won.

In effect, whether James Hird or Chris Grant won the Brownlow was decided on a single piece of play that neither were involved in.

[mjp]

Not to take away from the romantic nature of your post SS, but it is pretty hard to point at one passage of play as 'the reason' for a result in any game, let alone a 3-pointer.

It is like saying Westy could have won in 2005 (for example) if we had won a couple more games - in 1996 Grant was just unlucky.

In 1997, he was stabbed by Ian Collins, who is a snake. I remain convinced that the current state of the Carlton Footy club is a direct result of his despicable actions to cite Grant for striking that year. It is the only time I can really remember an administrator so aggressively targetting an individual player and having them rubbed out for something that the umpires did not believe to be reportable.

Is he a champion of the game? Well, he is a champion of the Footscray Footy Club, and to be honest that is more than enough for me. To say that I dont care how other teams supporters regard our players is an understatement.

[bresker]

Is he a champion of the game? Well, he is a champion of the Footscray Footy Club, and to be honest that is more than enough for me. To say that I dont care how other teams supporters regard our players is an understatement.

Me too, If he played for Adelaide or Collingwood or had a big mouth like Buckley we'd never hear the end of him. But he's an unfashionably modest man & plays for a less fashonable side.

Watching the old time 'scray supporters dab their eyes when he ran through the banner for his 330th game said it all for me.

[alwaysadog]

Not to take away from the romantic nature of your post SS, but it is pretty hard to point at one passage of play as 'the reason' for a result in any game, let alone a 3-pointer.

It is like saying Westy could have won in 2005 (for example) if we had won a couple more games - in 1996 Grant was just unlucky.

In 1997, he was stabbed by Ian Collins, who is a snake. I remain convinced that the current state of the Carlton Footy club is a direct result of his despicable actions to cite Grant for striking that year. It is the only time I can really remember an administrator so aggressively targetting an individual player and having them rubbed out for something that the umpires did not believe to be reportable.

Is he a champion of the game? Well, he is a champion of the Footscray Footy Club, and to be honest that is more than enough for me. To say that I dont care how other teams supporters regard our players is an understatement.

I take your initial point but when a game goes down to the wire then yes certain sequences or certain individuals directly affect the result in ways that make the the previous 100 minutes seem insignificant. Take Chris' last minute goal against the Bombers in 2000, it broke their spirits.

The current state of Carlton is in manyways a direct result of Collo but it is his ineptitude. He was very good at slagging off at us and he still never admits to a mistake but he left Carlton in a parlous state and deserted before he could be called to account. He runs the Phone Dome like a second rate doss house. The simple fact is that he gives others grief when they hit hard times but he's never experienced them himself and he couldn't manage a kindergarten.

[bornadog]

.

The current state of Carlton is in manyways a direct result of Collo but it is his ineptitude. He was very good at slagging off at us and he still never admits to a mistake but he left Carlton in a parlous state and deserted before he could be called to account. He runs the Phone Dome like a second rate doss house. The simple fact is that he gives others grief when they hit hard times but he's never experienced them himself and he couldn't manage a kindergarten.

Yes Carlton are in a State, and you know what, I am enjoying the club going through the turmoil. Over the years I worked with a lot of Carlton supporters and they were really arrogant bas....ds. I agree with your assessment of Collo as well, I hate him with a passion, not only for what he did to Chris but just his smart aleck smugness and yes your right he couldn't manage a kindergarten in a month of sundays.

[Hard Ball Get]

Out and out champion of the game.
There would be only a small group of players (Carey, Mattews, Ablett etc) that I think are clearly above him as a footballer. Tough and coragous, strong, versitile, longevity. Grant pretty much has it all.

If Carey et al. is a 5 then I would have Grant at about 4.7 - 4.8

[alwaysadog]

Champions aren't just made on their football, though tell me what Chris hasn't done for our cause at the highest level. Champions are also champion people. Sutton was, Whitten was, Hawkins was and Grant is. Though in a totally different way to the others, and they're a divergent lot already.

Chris never sort the limelight off the field. If that's part of being a champion then I'll be glad not to call him one. If genuinely decent human beings who perform at the highest level over more than a decade and a half can't be called champions then who can?

Oh, silly me, you obviously have to play for a "big" club to be a champion, no one else has ever had the right to have one.

[LostDoggy]

He is a champion.

What gives me the shits, is how The Footy Show & certain radio stations throw around the name. Especially when they introduce people onto a panel, take Nathan Brown for example.

Every time he is introduced by James Brayshaw, it's "the champion from the Richmond Football club" what has he done to deserve that?

Chris Grant is far & wide a champion in my eyes, even if other supporters and media people don't see it.

[LostDoggy]

I can't believe someone thought there was a need to raise the question.

Billy, I suspect you are just trying to get a bit of traffic happening on this website (which is good), but if you were serious about asking it you should have spent the last 17 years watching him rather than reading the Herald-Sun.

Agree. He is a champion Full Stop!
End of Discussion.

[azabob]

He is a champion.

What gives me the shits, is how The Footy Show & certain radio stations throw around the name. Especially when they introduce people onto a panel, take Nathan Brown for example.

Every time he is introduced by James Brayshaw, it's "the champion from the Richmond Football club" what has he done to deserve that?
Chris Grant is far & wide a champion in my eyes, even if other supporters and media people don't see it.

What I dont understand is why people get upset at what certain radio stations, or footy shows or papers say. Of course brayshaw is going to say Brown is a champion. Brayshaw / Lyon / Newman need to pump up the tyres of their overated, over hyped show. That is why they also find it necessary to degrade women and the contribution they make to society and football.

[The Coon Dog]

In the eyes of Bulldogs supporters he is a champion, both on & off the field.

[Before I Die]

I
When looking back on the career of Chris Grant I would be interested to know if our loyal Bulldog supporters here really class him as a champion footballer?


I can't believe you are asking the question. If you asked was he a superstar, or was he one of the all time greatest players, there may justification for a discussion, though I would say yes to both. But is he a champion? Absolutely, and anyone who disagrees is either ignorant, stupid or both, or has a personal defintion of champion which is at odds with anything you would find in a dictionary. I would love to know what criteria would be used to exclude him, other than, not enough TV exposure, didn't hang with the right social crowd, didn't play for a high profile team.

[Scraggers]

I agree the tag of champion is thrown around to easily to those who haven't earned it ...

When it comes to Chris Grant, it should be shouted from the roof tops ... Champion man, Champion footballer

[LostDoggy]

Can't think of anyone more deserving of the tag.

Single-handedly carried the team on many an occassion, and an exquisite ambassador for the game. Severely underrated by the larger football fraternity -- always very disappointed when he doesn't make the 'top 50 of all time' lists when guys like Jakovich or Cousins or Buckley (!) do simply because of a higher media profile. If we had made the '97 GF he would have gotten the recognition he so richly deserved on the widest stage possible.

I await the day (which will surely come) when Chris is retrospectively awarded the Brownlow. Him being the only top vote-getter to miss out is an anomaly that grows more anomalous every passing year, and Ian Collins's despicability becomes clearer and clearer (finally becoming obvious to the AFL hierarchy and wider public), it is surely only a matter of time before someone decent comes along to over-rule the results of a weasel's personal vendetta. Would be a very special moment when it happens.

--

ps. WOOF may be able to keep the pressure up on headquarters. If Nick Maxwell can get off a 4-week suspension by bringing in a QC, Chris Grant should be proudly displaying his Brownlow in his pool room.

[LostDoggy]

If he'd had the brownlow(s) and the premiership he so richly deserved we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Poetry.

Close thread.

[Axe Man]

I await the day (which will surely come) when Chris is retrospectively awarded the Brownlow. Him being the only top vote-getter to miss out is an anomaly that grows more anomalous every passing year, and Ian Collins's despicability becomes clearer and clearer (finally becoming obvious to the AFL hierarchy and wider public), it is surely only a matter of time before someone decent comes along to over-rule the results of a weasel's personal vendetta. Would be a very special moment when it happens.

--

ps. WOOF may be able to keep the pressure up on headquarters. If Nick Maxwell can get off a 4-week suspension by bringing in a QC, Chris Grant should be proudly displaying his Brownlow in his pool room.


Corey McKernan says hi

[Scraggers]

Corey McKernan says hi

You beat me to it !! ;)

[mighty_west]

Champion of the game
Legend of the club

The BEST player running around in the red white & blue i have seen [since the late 70's].

[Sockeye Salmon]

Corey McKernan says hi

You know the stupid thing about this?

Because Grant polled more votes than Harvey, neither he nor McKernan can ever be given a retrospective medal.

To do so would be to take Harvey's back, and they will never do that.

Had Grant tied with Harvey, rather than beaten him, it would have been easy for the AFL just to change the rule, give Grant and McKernan their medals - like they did with Alan Hopkins, Noel Teasdale, Graham Arther et al - and that would be the end of it.

[LostDoggy]

You know the stupid thing about this?

Because Grant polled more votes than Harvey, neither he nor McKernan can ever be given a retrospective medal.

To do so would be to take Harvey's back, and they will never do that.

Had Grant tied with Harvey, rather than beaten him, it would have been easy for the AFL just to change the rule, give Grant and McKernan their medals - like they did with Alan Hopkins, Noel Teasdale, Graham Arther et al - and that would be the end of it.

Graham Arthur?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Graham Arthur?

I've got the wrong bloke, haven't I?

Col Austen, perhaps?

[Scraggers]

I've got the wrong bloke, haven't I?

Col Austen, perhaps?

Col Austen was from 1949 ...
there was also Harry Collier (Collingwood 1930), Bill Hutchinson (Essendon 1952), Verdun Howell (St Kilda 1952), and Allan Hopkins (Footscray 1930) & Noel Teasdale (South Melbourne 1965) who you've already mentioned

[Sedat]

If he'd had the brownlow(s) and the premiership he so richly deserved we wouldnt be having this conversation.
Ian Collins and a missed Paul Hudson shepard put paid to both dreams

[hujsh]

I can't believe someone thought there was a need to raise the question.


There's always one.

Especially on SEN

[bornadog]

What I dont understand is why people get upset at what certain radio stations, or footy shows or papers say. Of course brayshaw is going to say Brown is a champion. Brayshaw / Lyon / Newman need to pump up the tyres of their overated, over hyped show. That is why they also find it necessary to degrade women and the contribution they make to society and football.

couldn't agree more.

[The Underdog]

In the eyes of Bulldogs supporters he is a champion, both on & off the field.

We know what he did and what he meant to the club. What anyone else thinks is irrelevant.

[LostDoggy]

Silly thread really.....Champion player, champion bloke!! I reckon near on 100% of doggies fans would agree. Never saw Teddy so to me he ranks up there with Hawkins, everyone else is a level below IMO.

[LostDoggy]

Corey McKernan says hi

Ah, but you see, Corey DESERVED his suspension. So he's technically not a 'top vote-getter to miss out'. He was ineligible.

In my mind, Chris was and is eligible. He wasn't suspended by any law or official of the game, apart from a NON-MATCH administrator with a vendetta. No one even knew Collins as an administrator had a say in reporting people until that point in time, and it hasn't happened since (and wouldn't happen - convention prevents it), and there is ample evidence that the match review panel of the day was leaned on heavily by Collins, which is prejudice in the extreme thus invalidating their ruling -- in law it would be known as a false or non-binding precedent. It's not a real case -- trumped up charges, personal agendas, non-objective ruling etc. etc.. in real case law one would easily be able to go back, review the case and overturn the charges.

Thus, the top vote-getter. The ONLY top vote-getter. Who didn't get his Brownlow.

HIS Brownlow.

[The Pie Man]

Ah, but you see, Corey DESERVED his suspension. So he's technically not a 'top vote-getter to miss out'. He was ineligible.

In my mind, Chris was and is eligible. He wasn't suspended by any law or official of the game, apart from a NON-MATCH administrator with a vendetta. No one even knew Collins as an administrator had a say in reporting people until that point in time, and it hasn't happened since (and wouldn't happen - convention prevents it), and there is ample evidence that the match review panel of the day was leaned on heavily by Collins, which is prejudice in the extreme thus invalidating their ruling -- in law it would be known as a false or non-binding precedent. It's not a real case -- trumped up charges, personal agendas, non-objective ruling etc. etc.. in real case law one would easily be able to go back, review the case and overturn the charges.

Thus, the top vote-getter. The ONLY top vote-getter. Who didn't get his Brownlow.

HIS Brownlow.

What was his issue? Surely it wasn't personal - they surely wouldn'tve known eachother well and he's such a likeable bloke. Has he had an issue with us forever? Was it that we were playing and winning home games in his backyard at the time?

The injustice still stings, and along with the Stadium deals, he maintains that smug expression. Would you brake if you saw him crossing the street? (a line from the Simpsons in case anyone thinks that's too harsh - of course I would, but I'd slow down and give him a fearful spray)