Always Right Match Committee Round 19 V Melbourne At Marvel On Saturday Night

[Scraggers]

Welcome to the Always Right Match Committee Thread. The Match Committee threads has been named after long time WOOF member Always Right who tragically passed away in March 2018.

If you were on the Western Bulldogs match committee what changes would you make after our Round 18 match against St.Kilda for our Round 19 match against Melbourne at Marvel on Saturday Night.

For those new to these threads, please give a brief explanation for your changes ... this would add a lot of value to the discussion.

[GVGjr]

Bump

[GVGjr]

Do we stick with the two ruckman again? Stats might say no but it might have helped the midfielders.

[azabob]

Do we stick with the two ruckman again? Stats might say no but it might have helped the midfielders.

Yes. We should’ve stuck with Sweet last week. English has been poor two weeks running. Gawn will chew him up and spit him out next week.

[kruder]

Tempted to drop Cody, he needs to go back to basics has had a very ordinary year.

[MrMahatma]

In: Naughton
Out: McNeil

I also thought Hannan was average and used it poorly, but think we’ll stick with him. If not Schache could come in and play back.

[Mantis]

Tempted to drop Cody, he needs to go back to basics has had a very ordinary year.

I call bullshit on this comment.

[Mantis]

I can’t see how we play Sweet & Bruce next week… Bruce wasn’t even competitive and Sweet either plays as #1 ruck or not at all.

[azabob]

I can’t see how we play Sweet & Bruce next week… Bruce wasn’t even competitive and Sweet either plays as #1 ruck or not at all.

My concern is English hasn't been competitive the last two weeks.

[Mantis]

My concern is English hasn't been competitive the last two weeks.

He (English) was better in the ruck contests, but did very little around the ground…. Just don’t see what Sweet offers except being competitive in in the ruck. He was a liability when he played as a forward and wasn’t helped that Bruce was too.

[SonofScray]

Do we stick with the two ruckman again? Stats might say no but it might have helped the midfielders.

Surely.

What do the results show when we run with two ruckman? If I recall it was heavily skewed in favour of playing both, despite the coach’s continued reluctance to do it.

I don’t care what Sweet’s stats are, his inclusion seems to generate an elastic effect on the midfield’s effectiveness.

[westbulldog]

In Naughton Cleary or O'Brien McLean or Hunter
Out Bruce McNeill Hannan

[Bulldog4life]

My concern is English hasn't been competitive the last two weeks.

Tim is mentioned by Bevo in his presser for getting us going in the first. Won the hit outs. Competitive plus. Not sure what else he has to do. His around the ground wasn't up to his standard and his marking too. Rusty if anything. Before he was injured/ concussed earlier in the season Tim was touted as the best ruck going around. Bit too hard on him Aza.

[Swoop]

You don't feel like Hannan and Bruce are worth persisting with?

[SquirrelGrip]

In Naughton, Hunter
Out Sweet, McNeil

Would consider Schache in for Keath.

[azabob]

In Naughton, Hunter
Out Sweet, McNeil

Would consider Schache in for Keath.

Who is your 2nd ruck to give English a chop out?

[Happy Days]

I wouldn't be dropping Sweet. That was as dominant as we've been at clearances all year, no need to mess with that mix.

As much as I love the guy and his presence on the playing group if Bruce is only giving defenders that little to think about at the moment then May and Lever will have a field day on him. Don't know if we can afford to get run back into him in a game that's so important.

[Bulldog Joe]

Not sure why there are calls for Hannan out. Feel that he really contributed.
My changes
In Naughton, Schache, Hunter
Out Sweet, McNeill and Williams

[GVGjr]

This is what I think they'll do

In Schache, McLean/Hunter and Naughton
Out Sweet, McNeil and Garcia. All of these outs are unlucky.

[azabob]

It will be interesting to see what changes are made.

Naughton, Hunter and Schache should be available and potentially Scott.

When in form Naughton and Hunter are best 22, Scott and Schache on the cusp.

If Wilkie tore us a new one with his intercept marks what on earth will May do?

Do we play Bruce who really struggled or do we back him in? We surely can’t drop Marra after he hit the scoreboard?

Do we back Sweet to nullify Gawn in the ruck and get destroyed around the ground or do we have English get destroyed in the ruck and hopefully hurt Gawn around the ground? Interestingly Sweet had more pressure acts than English last night.

Playing two ruckman likely means we can’t play all Naughton, Bruce and Marra.

Can Scott or Hunter come back in and play a role on Brayshaw? Or do we back in Williams whose confidence levels are well down.

I think Khamis stays in ahead or Hannan but the question is who can pick up Fritsch? Does this bring Clearly into the selection frame?

[Bullies]

Tempted to drop Cody, he needs to go back to basics has had a very ordinary year. Seriously. No comment.

[Bullies]

Do we stick with the two ruckman again? Stats might say no but it might have helped the midfielders. Our clearences are so much cleaner when Sweet is in the ruck. He may not get a lot of it around the ground himself but the service he gives the mids is first class and makes up for it.

[GVGjr]

Tempted to drop Cody, he needs to go back to basics has had a very ordinary year.

He isn't playing well but I can't see him being dropped. He's kicked 2 bags of 5 this year and while I'd like to see him get a few more possessions each game he does a fair bit of defensive work as well. I think he's earning his spot.

[Bullies]

I wouldn't be dropping Sweet. That was as dominant as we've been at clearances all year, no need to mess with that mix.

As much as I love the guy and his presence on the playing group if Bruce is only giving defenders that little to think about at the moment then May and Lever will have a field day on him. Don't know if we can afford to get run back into him in a game that's so important. Agree with this. I said during the week I wouldn't pick Bruce as he appeared to be lumbering the week prior in the 2's. He kicked 4 but played on no one as the Saints had no defenders. He played like it last night. I think he'll be better next year with a full pre season.

[Hotdog60]

I'm all for the Sweet and English combo and I would instruct Sweet to blanket May and make sure he doesn't mark it when he is forward he's a big body and he doesn't need to mark it just make sure May doesn't.

[Grantysghost]

Tempted to drop Cody, he needs to go back to basics has had a very ordinary year.

He's still working super hard off the ball it's just not clicking possession wise.
West has almost become our best small forward.
I thought he was struggling with his elbow but he looked good last night.

Ordinary year is a misrepresentation I think but respect your view.

[DOG GOD]

Definitely the Sweet/English combo, especially as English is nowhere near his best (pre concussion).

I’ve got a feeling Hannan has been earmarked to take Fritsch (god help us)

No way Marra can be dropped.

What happens next week with selection, I’m not sure, but to be any chance in hell, our mids have to beat theirs and 2 rucks is our best chance.

[Bulldog4life]

I like Sweet in the ruck but unfortunately he has no idea at all of playing in the forward line. When Bont took that pack mark in the last Sweety was going up with one hand. I even prefer him around the ground than in the forward line and that's saying something. He's big enough to jag a mark or two but at this stage hasn't got a clue.

[Bullies]

I think Bruce needs to get his fitness and confidence up in the 2's. We can't afford to carry him in the next couple of weeks. Our kicking was ordinary last night which is why we need Scott of the wing. Hunter has been ordinary since his return so he can get some confidence in the 2's as well.

In : Naughton, Scott

Out : Bruce, McNeill

[kruder]

I call bullshit on this comment.

All good. I just have higher expectations of him he is an elite talent last year I thought he was sensational. He is better than just a good pressure forward at the moment he is no where near it.

Nothing wrong with a week in the VFL, it has worked for Macrae it can work for him.

I'm expecting Sweet to be dropped If Naughty is ready to return.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Who is your 2nd ruck to give English a chop out?

Sweet needs to play. We are a much better midfield with his centre hitouts to the likes of Libba Bont Macrae and now Bailey Smith.
It also allows English to provide support to Naughton as a key forward. Melbourne have two quality ruck men in Gawn and Jackson and this gives us our best opportunity for success.

[GVGjr]

I think Bruce needs to get his fitness and confidence up in the 2's. We can't afford to carry him in the next couple of weeks. Our kicking was ordinary last night which is why we need Scott of the wing. Hunter has been ordinary since his return so he can get some confidence in the 2's as well.

In : Naughton, Scott

Out : Bruce, McNeill

Bruce was very ordinary last night and looked a mile off it. Do you think he will be dropped even though Naughton is a logical replacement and Schache probably deserves to get his spot back?

Something isn't right with Keath who has been struggling for a few weeks now. Might be carrying an injury.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We didn't bring Bruce back to drop him after one week.

No chance he gets dropped, unless he's sore.

[GVGjr]

We didn't bring Bruce back to drop him after one week.

No chance he gets dropped, unless he's sore.

I agree but he was poor and a long way off it.

[jeemak]

He couldn't even kick a goal that didn't count!

I would be really surprised if he was dropped. He will hopefully have some confidence back after the run and will at least be able to provide a contest and help stretch Melbourne's defence next week providing Naughton comes back.

Schache unfortunately will only get a reprieve if we decide we want flexibility with our second ruck.

[boydogs]

41-21 clearances, I think we play 2 rucks again, if not it will be GF de ja vu

I thought Bruce competed well and brought West, Weightman and Jamarra into the game

Our worst player last night was Keath who looked sore, but we don’t have a great replacement for him. McNeil was really good, as was JJ

[Rocco Jones]

We didn't bring Bruce back to drop him after one week.

No chance he gets dropped, unless he's sore.

I get you and think you're probably right but Schache was out. I don't know if we knew Naughton was out at the time too.

[Rocco Jones]

41-21 clearances, I think we play 2 rucks again, if not it will be GF de ja vu


I am okay with Sweet but we went in with two rucks in that game.

[boydogs]

41-21 clearances, I think we play 2 rucks again, if not it will be GF de ja vu


I am okay with Sweet but we went in with two rucks in that game.

And we still got trounced. 2022 English has stepped up but isn’t at his best

[whythelongface]

41-21 clearances, I think we play 2 rucks again, if not it will be GF de ja vu

I thought Bruce competed well and brought West, Weightman and Jamarra into the game

Our worst player last night was Keath who looked sore, but we don’t have a great replacement for him. McNeil was really good, as was JJ

Glad I am not the only one that thought McNeill was good. I have seen others whom have suggested we shouldn’t put game time into him. Think he competes well is hard at it and can also tackle. Sure he lacks some finesse etc but think he adds value.

[jeemak]

I thought McNeil was a good finish at a goal opportunity and one major connection between wing and half forward from having a quality game.

[Grantysghost]

I thought McNeil was a good finish at a goal opportunity and one major connection between wing and half forward from having a quality game.

He was pretty good. I can see why Bevo plays him. If we look at how we play without the ball he fits perfectly. Unrelenting runner.

I'd make him captain coach.

[Grantysghost]

I agree but he was poor and a long way off it.

When interviewed he said he felt quite rusty but was running really strongly.

I think unfortunately for Josh Schache he may be the one who is left out now Bruce is back.

[GVGjr]

When interviewed he said he felt quite rusty but was running really strongly.

I think unfortunately for Josh Schache he may be the one who is left out now Bruce is back.

Does a rusty and underdone Josh Bruce put us in a better position to win against Melbourne and Geelong?
I hope so, but he was very poor last night.

[Before I Die]

Is there some kind of in joke going on with regard to Sweet? He contributed nothing and in some posts is being credited with the turn around in the team's form. Apparently we play better when he is in the side, regardless of how he plays?? That seems as credible as lucky socks, lucky jocks and lucky pre-game rituals.

2 kicks, 4 handballs, 1 mark 9 hit outs, not sure how many to advantage. Yep, sounds like the difference between winning and losing. I'm not saying he was our worst, but he was close. And yes, I watched the game. I'm happy to listen if someone can explain why my eyes and these stats are lying. But it needs to be more than "he makes us better". See lucky jocks reference above.

Having said all that, we do need someone to support English. If Schache is not ready this week, I would keep Sweet in until he is.

[GVGjr]

Is there some kind of in joke going on with regard to Sweet? He contributed nothing and in some posts is being credited with the turn around in the team's form. Apparently we play better when he is in the side, regardless of how he plays?? That seems as credible as lucky socks, lucky jocks and lucky pre-game rituals.

2 kicks, 4 handballs, 1 mark 9 hit outs, not sure how many to advantage. Yep, sounds like the difference between winning and losing. I'm not saying he was our worst, but he was close. And yes, I watched the game. I'm happy to listen if someone can explain why my eyes and these stats are lying. But it needs to be more than "he makes us better". See lucky jocks reference above.

Having said all that, we do need someone to support English. If Schache is not ready this week, I would keep Sweet in until he is.

One of the aspects in why the two ruck preference might be in play is that English hasn't looked himself in the last 2 weeks and Sweet does offer the best chop out we can find at the moment.

I think I would prefer Schache as well.

[Grantysghost]

Is there some kind of in joke going on with regard to Sweet? He contributed nothing and in some posts is being credited with the turn around in the team's form. Apparently we play better when he is in the side, regardless of how he plays?? That seems as credible as lucky socks, lucky jocks and lucky pre-game rituals.

2 kicks, 4 handballs, 1 mark 9 hit outs, not sure how many to advantage. Yep, sounds like the difference between winning and losing. I'm not saying he was our worst, but he was close. And yes, I watched the game. I'm happy to listen if someone can explain why my eyes and these stats are lying. But it needs to be more than "he makes us better". See lucky jocks reference above.

Having said all that, we do need someone to support English. If Schache is not ready this week, I would keep Sweet in until he is.

At the game I hardly noticed he was playing.

[Danjul]

At the game I hardly noticed he was playing.
I think he had 60% game time. Does that qualify as playing?

English: about 90% 8 possessions.

[Happy Days]

I should note that I don't think Sweet is good and I think Bruce when fit is very good, but our clearance work was exceptional last night and Sweet's support at least marginally contributed to it. English's ruck work was much better for it if nothing else (the less said about his everything else the better).

Ideally, no, ruck support alone should not guarantee you a spot but what are the other options?

If we pick Bruce and not Sweet then I won't lose sleep over it but we really need to win this week.

[DOG GOD]

English is not 100% mentally, so until he is, we need to play our BEST two RUCKMEN, and that’s English and Sweet.

[Bullies]

We didn't bring Bruce back to drop him after one week.

No chance he gets dropped, unless he's sore. I just think they will realise how far off it he is. He has looked ordinary in his 2's games in regards to movement. We can't afford to take him in against Melbourne and Geelong considering they have the best defences. You may be right but I think they rolled the dice this week with Bruce as the 2's had a bye.

[Danjul]

One of the aspects in why the two ruck preference might be in play is that English hasn't looked himself in the last 2 weeks and Sweet does offer the best chop out we can find at the moment.

I think I would prefer Schache as well.
Schache played well against Melbourne when we beat them last year. As a defender.

He has also played well as a forward.

He offers nothing offensive in the ruck.

[MrMahatma]

I just think they will realise how far off it he is. He has looked ordinary in his 2's games in regards to movement. We can't afford to take him in against Melbourne and Geelong considering they have the best defences. You may be right but I think they rolled the dice this week with Bruce as the 2's had a bye.

Reckon he looked like he did for pretty much all of 2020. Played every week didn’t he?

[bornadog]

I should note that I don't think Sweet is good and I think Bruce when fit is very good, but our clearance work was exceptional last night and Sweet's support at least marginally contributed to it. English's ruck work was much better for it if nothing else (the less said about his everything else the better).

Ideally, no, ruck support alone should not guarantee you a spot but what are the other options?

If we pick Bruce and not Sweet then I won't lose sleep over it but we really need to win this week.

We are the number one clearance team in the AFL, Sweet has played 6 games out of 18. He is not the difference.

I totally agree with Before I die. I didn't see the game, but they are typical Sweet numbers.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Does a rusty and underdone Josh Bruce put us in a better position to win against Melbourne and Geelong?
I hope so, but he was very poor last night.

Being an optimist I say it will take one clunk and a goal from Bruce and he will get confidence. Also he takes May. Also him saying his legs are good means he can push them more next game.

[bornadog]

Being an optimist I say it will take one clunk and a goal from Bruce and he will get confidence. Also he takes May.

Must keep him in as he will warrant attention from Melbourne. Maybe not at his best, but he will keep Melbourne guessing. Hopefully Naughton is right to go.

[Happy Days]

We are the number one clearance team in the AFL, Sweet has played 6 games out of 18. He is not the difference.

I totally agree with Before I die. I didn't see the game, but they are typical Sweet numbers.

Bruh...

[bornadog]

Bruh...



I know what you mean, but was 9 hitouts - the difference?

My comment is based on the season

[Happy Days]

I know what you mean, but was 9 hitouts - the difference?

My comment is based on the season

To me, it was clearly our best stoppage effort of the year, and the best our ruck work has looked in I can't even remember how long. Sweet himself didn't do a hell of a lot but at least didn't let the opposition off the hook by weakening the stoppage set up and allowed English to control the ruck when he was in there.

It's a very low bar and if this was Bruce after even a merely poor performance then it's a no brainer to keep him in. But we might as well have been one short yesterday with how little Bruce was involved. If you've kept any track of my posts (which is pocket watching cop behaviour but whatever) then you would know how I feel about both these guys, but we simply have to put the best 22 we can out there next week.

[Grantysghost]

Does a rusty and underdone Josh Bruce put us in a better position to win against Melbourne and Geelong?
I hope so, but he was very poor last night.

It's a good question. Probably not.

[azabob]

Does a rusty and underdone Josh Bruce put us in a better position to win against Melbourne and Geelong?
I hope so, but he was very poor last night.

Not against the two best interceptors in the game.

[GVGjr]

Schache played well against Melbourne when we beat them last year. As a defender.

He has also played well as a forward.

He offers nothing offensive in the ruck.

In the ruck aspect it's just the chop out.
I think he can still be a decent option for us but will likely get squeezed out with Ugle-Hagan performing well and Naughton back.

[jeemak]

Not against the two best interceptors in the game.

I'm confident a Bruce who is able to run but is not in form will do more to unsettle and overwork May and Lever than what a Schache or a resting/ rotating Sweet will.

If he pulls up well and without tightness (noting there's a lot more running done at the senior level) then he'll be better than he was off a five day break and should bring more energy to his role.

The timing and fluidity in his game will be a work in progress, but the effort and the intensity is unlikely to be and should be ready to go.

With Naughton back my specific instructions for Bruce would be to not even worry about winning the footy, and giving May and Lever the hardest time possible.

[Danjul]

Must keep him in as he will warrant attention from Melbourne. Maybe not at his best, but he will keep Melbourne guessing. Hopefully Naughton is right to go.
We destroyed Hawthorn because of Weightman’s one possession. And the fact that he kept them guessing.

And we destroyed the Saints because of Bruce’s three possessions. And the fact that he kept them guessing.

Now we have confirmed what wins games we should stick with it.

FFS!

[Danjul]

I'm confident a Bruce who is able to run but is not in form will do more to unsettle and overwork May and Lever than what a Schache or a resting/ rotating Sweet will.

If he pulls up well and without tightness (noting there's a lot more running done at the senior level) then he'll be better than he was off a five day break and should bring more energy to his role.

The timing and fluidity in his game will be a work in progress, but the effort and the intensity is unlikely to be and should be ready to go.

With Naughton back my specific instructions for Bruce would be to not even worry about winning the footy, and giving May and Lever the hardest time possible.

You are totally overlooking the fact that the last time we defeated Melbourne both Bruce and Schache played.

Bruce 12 possessions 4 contested … 1% 0
Schache 17 possessions 7 contested …. 1% 3

Schache was one of the major reasons we won.

Only interpretation is Schache is always crap. Bruce is always our saviour.

[jeemak]

The unwavering commitment to full ground defence coupled with St Kilda's poor first half execution (in part resulting from it) won us the game last night and these will be the major things that keep us in the respective contests the coming weeks.

To me the rest is by and large peripheral and if they all play their best Schache, Bruce and Sweet could have an impact any any scenario we choose to run with.

I just think the scenario in which we do what we can to bring the ball to ground and unsettle the intercept games over the next fortnight will be the most complementary to getting our full ground defence humming.

[Rocco Jones]

A hard one for sure (for better reasons than most of the year). I can get us going a few ways but I'd like to see:

Naughton for Bruce. I just think Juice is too underdone. I'd be okay with it if any other team than the Dees but they feast on immobile forwards.

Schache for Sweet. Danjul derby here having them compete for a spot. Whoever is paired with English has to play a mix of forward/ruck and I think Schache is better suited. Sweet and/or Juice forward really would be playing into Dees hands.

McNeil and Truck probably the next ones out if we want to bring in Hunter for some run (and he is ok to go), Scott and if Caleb is ready. Would be rough but maybe Garcia the third one if we want all three in.

I think/hope there's the opportunity to run the Dees off their feet a bit, or a bit more than usual, with them having a six day break coming off the Darwin trip.

[jeemak]

You are totally overlooking the fact that the last time we defeated Melbourne both Bruce and Schache played.

Bruce 12 possessions 4 contested … 1% 0
Schache 17 possessions 7 contested …. 1% 3

Schache was one of the major reasons we won.

Only interpretation is Schache is always crap. Bruce is always our saviour.

I want Schache in, and Sweet out.

And you're totally overlooking the fact Schache played as a defender last time we beat Melbourne while Bruce played forward and kicked two goals and was also one of the major reasons we won.

So just relax, and at least look a little bit deeper into your memory banks or the vast repositories of information available on the web before you give me that.

[Before I Die]

We are still in with a chance and need to be picking our team with the best chance of winning and also preparing our best 22 for potential, though unlikely, finals.

Our best 22 has Bruce at FF and relieving English in the ruck. I’d be working toward this but think Bruce needs a few games before he does any rucking. The great unknown this early in the week is how the Covid 3 recover and whether Caleb comes up.

If they are all fit, I’d bring in Naughton, Hunter, Caleb and Scott. I’d probably bring in Schache as well. That’s a lot of changes to a winning side but I think all five make us better. My outs would be McNeil, Garcia, Hannan, Williams and Sweet. That would be five very unlucky outs. I think Buku has to stay because he is our ‘most likely’ to fill the intercept marker role.

[Danjul]

I want Schache in, and Sweet out.

And you're totally overlooking the fact Schache played as a defender last time we beat Melbourne while Bruce played forward and kicked two goals and was also one of the major reasons we won.

So just relax, and at least look a little bit deeper into your memory banks or the vast repositories of information available on the web before you give me that.
I clearly said earlier that Schache played as a defender in that game.

But he has played on intercept defenders before, and recently.

thanks for the advice about the web. It took 3 micro seconds for this to appear.


Schache took on Port’s All-Australian key defender and interceptor Aliir Aliir, who was red-hot against Geelong in the previous final. Schache, as footage from behind the goals demonstrated, played at the back of Aliir’s shoulder, as if the Bulldog forward was a defender.

But Schache not only negated Aliir, he did mark the footy, quite frequently…..

But I did remember it anyway.

[jeemak]

I clearly said earlier that Schache played as a defender in that game.

But he has played on intercept defenders before, and recently.

thanks for the advice about the web. It took 3 micro seconds for this to appear.


Schache took on Port’s All-Australian key defender and interceptor Aliir Aliir, who was red-hot against Geelong in the previous final. Schache, as footage from behind the goals demonstrated, played at the back of Aliir’s shoulder, as if the Bulldog forward was a defender.

But Schache not only negated Aliir, he did mark the footy, quite frequently…..

But I did remember it anyway.

And you clearly ignored Bruce's two goals in your stats to stats comparison from the Melbourne game, and then put words into my mouth about why one is bad and one is good. You should just be apologising for relying on false equivalency when potting another poster's views.

If you had have said, you know what Jeemak, Schache also played the defencive forward role against Port and did it really well. I'd have said good point Danjul, that gives me something to think about.

So thinking about that, Schache possibly would play that role as well as Bruce but I want Bruce in the side to get him game time and I want Schache in the side instead of Sweet because he can give us some defencive cover if a hobbling Keath goes down - and to my mind gives us enough in the ruck.

[GVGjr]

The last time we played Melbourne Schache lined up on a wing didn't he? Lets hope that isn't repeated.

[whythelongface]

We destroyed Hawthorn because of Weightman’s one possession. And the fact that he kept them guessing.

And we destroyed the Saints because of Bruce’s three possessions. And the fact that he kept them guessing.

Now we have confirmed what wins games we should stick with it.

FFS!

And the Saints had 6 of their players with the most marks (yes the top 6). More contested possessions, more uncontested possessions, more kicks and disposals and less turnovers. Yet never looked in the game. Stats aren’t necessarily what wins you games. Sometimes players bring different traits to a game that is immeasurable. Bruce was providing guidance and direction to Marra (and others) - maybe this played a role in us winning the game.

[azabob]

The last time we played Melbourne Schache lined up on a wing didn't he? Lets hope that isn't repeated.

That is up there with Wood forward.

[GVGjr]

That is up there with Wood forward.

At least Wood trained with the forwards whereas didn't Schache train with the defenders in the pre-season?

[jeemak]

You know you can be asked to fulfill a specific role on game day without having spent an entire preseason training for it.

Bevo - Josh, we'd like to put you on a wing this week and have you sit back and help out our defencive structure, and then when we have it run forward and provide a down the line target....

Schache - But Bevo, I haven't trained for that, what if something goes wrong?

Bevo - You're right Josh, we'll just wait until preseason to train you up properly, certify you as trained, and for now just stick to what we know.....

[Danjul]

You know you can be asked to fulfill a specific role on game day without having spent an entire preseason training for it.

Bevo - Josh, we'd like to put you on a wing this week and have you sit back and help out our defencive structure, and then when we have it run forward and provide a down the line target....

Schache - But Bevo, I haven't trained for that, what if something goes wrong?

Bevo - You're right Josh, we'll just wait until preseason to train you up properly, certify you as trained, and for now just stick to what we know.....

Not sure what that means.

I am under the impression that people want an out of form (for understandable reasons) Bruce playing against Melbourne because he is, well, Bruce.

I’m simply pointing out that we have a player who has done what will probably be needed, in next week’s game. He can play forward and/or back. He has done both well, the internet says that. Could also be a disaster and won’t be risked is my guess.

How do we maximise our result?

[Grantysghost]

Not sure what that means.

I am under the impression that people want an out of form (for understandable reasons) Bruce playing against Melbourne because he is, well, Bruce.

I’m simply pointing out that we have a player who has done what will probably be needed, in next week’s game. He can play forward and/or back. He has done both well, the internet says that. Could also be a disaster and won’t be risked is my guess.

How do we maximise our result?

Danjul you and I need to join forces and go into bat for McNeil.

He's awesome right?

He's like Sweet and Schache but smaller and better!

14 possessions last night.

[Danjul]

And you clearly ignored Bruce's two goals in your stats to stats comparison from the Melbourne game, and then put words into my mouth about why one is bad and one is good. You should just be apologising for relying on false equivalency when potting another poster's views.

If you had have said, you know what Jeemak, Schache also played the defencive forward role against Port and did it really well. I'd have said good point Danjul, that gives me something to think about.

So thinking about that, Schache possibly would play that role as well as Bruce but I want Bruce in the side to get him game time and I want Schache in the side instead of Sweet because he can give us some defencive cover if a hobbling Keath goes down - and to my mind gives us enough in the ruck.
Sorry. I don’t want want Schache in the ruck. He has failed every time we have tried it. It detracts from his skill set. Melbourne have two good ruckmen and that section of the game has troubled us significantly recently.

But I agree with you about Keath. I thought he had a problem in the last 2 games so you are right to think ahead about possibilities there. It will be interesting to see how it all goes.

[Happy Days]

I really thought Keath was fine. Unlike all of you keyboard warriors I’ve actually had a bad corkie before and with that in mind I thought he did well enough playing through it. No real defensive lapses and even had a couple of important pack marks late (even if he did botch one by playing on).

[azabob]

I really thought Keath was fine. Unlike all of you keyboard warriors I’ve actually had a bad corkie before and with that in mind I thought he did well enough playing through it. No real defensive lapses and even had a couple of important pack marks late (even if he did botch one by playing on).

Corkie from the Yarraville nets?

[GVGjr]

I really thought Keath was fine. Unlike all of you keyboard warriors I’ve actually had a bad corkie before and with that in mind I thought he did well enough playing through it. No real defensive lapses and even had a couple of important pack marks late (even if he did botch one by playing on).

He was clearly hampered for a large part of the game but I think the point people are making with Keath is that he hasn't quite hit his 2021 form this year.

[Happy Days]

Corkie from the Yarraville nets?

Of course not. No one could lay a hand on me there.

[DOG GOD]

He was clearly hampered for a large part of the game but I think the point people are making with Keath is that he hasn't quite hit his 2021 form this year.

And I don’t think he ever will. He looks shot on confidence and I think 90% of that is due to his body. He even looks like he’s aged 5 years in the last 12 months. We really have to start thinking about a permanent replacement.

[SquirrelGrip]

Who is your 2nd ruck to give English a chop out?

Bruce, Buku, Hannan, Dunks

[SquirrelGrip]

English is not 100% mentally, so until he is, we need to play our BEST two RUCKMEN, and that’s English and Sweet.

What does this even mean?

[Bullies]

Reckon he looked like he did for pretty much all of 2020. Played every week didn’t he? He probably did but he had his touch as well which he doesn't have at the moment. As a marking forward he needs that and probably best he gets it in the 2's. Unfortunately we can't carry players with the position we are in to get them up to speed.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We're long odds to beat Melbourne. The one scenario we might is if Naughton and Bruce can create chaos by kicking a few and creating more. We simply won't get that from Schache. We never have. We are extremely unlikely to get it from Bruce but he's more likely than Schache.

The only way Schache should play is as a key defender to replace Keath, who is seriously battling. But even then that won't happen.

Sweet has a more compelling argument to play and it's not so much based off his own abilities as it is what the team (and Tim) needs. English rucking 1 out v Gawn and Jackson in his current form wouldn't be a risk I'd be taking.

[Danjul]

Danjul you and I need to join forces and go into bat for McNeil.

He's awesome right?

He's like Sweet and Schache but smaller and better!

14 possessions last night.

I think he has had more games than sweet and Schache combined in the last two seasons. So he must be good.

This year his talent has been easy to follow during games. In 6 of them we have been able to count his disposals on one hand - excellent for cold weather as we can keep the other in our pocket. When he got 1 possession in a full half of footy lately we didn’t need to use any hands.

But to look forward to a significant milestone- if McNeil and Sweet are selected this week Sweet will have been selected for exactly half of the number of games as his more influential teammate.

note: one part of this is not quite true, but it’s very close.

[Grantysghost]

I think he has had more games than sweet and Schache combined in the last two seasons. So he must be good.

This year his talent has been easy to follow during games. In 6 of them we have been able to count his disposals on one hand - excellent for cold weather as we can keep the other in our pocket. When he got 1 possession in a full half of footy lately we didn’t need to use any hands.

But to look forward to a significant milestone- if McNeil and Sweet are selected this week Sweet will have been selected for exactly half of the number of games as his more influential teammate.

note: one part of this is not quite true, but it’s very close.

How very dare you Danj ! :)

[DOG GOD]

What does this even mean?

Getting over concussion and not 100% switched on. Not getting in, dropping marks he’d usually take. Like he’s trying his best NOT to get another head knock.
It happened last year with him too.

[1eyedog]

I can’t see how we play Sweet & Bruce next week… Bruce wasn’t even competitive and Sweet either plays as #1 ruck or not at all.

You just play Bruce cause like, we need to and you just play Sweet because, have you watched English these past two weeks?

English is a rug on valium at the moment.

Astro and Hunter for McNeil and Weightman with JJ and West deep.

[boydogs]

Is there some kind of in joke going on with regard to Sweet? He contributed nothing and in some posts is being credited with the turn around in the team's form. Apparently we play better when he is in the side, regardless of how he plays?? That seems as credible as lucky socks, lucky jocks and lucky pre-game rituals.

2 kicks, 4 handballs, 1 mark 9 hit outs, not sure how many to advantage. Yep, sounds like the difference between winning and losing. I'm not saying he was our worst, but he was close. And yes, I watched the game. I'm happy to listen if someone can explain why my eyes and these stats are lying. But it needs to be more than "he makes us better". See lucky jocks reference above.

Having said all that, we do need someone to support English. If Schache is not ready this week, I would keep Sweet in until he is.

The hit outs and even hit outs to advantage stats don’t really measure what happens in the ruck. Competing, being predictable to your mids, blocking, tackling are critical.

9 hit outs isn’t much, but what percentage of ruck contests Sweet attended did we win the clearance for?

How many more ruck contests did he attend compared to our second rucks in other games to give English more of a break to compete harder in the ruck and up forward?

[EasternWest]

Of course not. No one could lay a hand on me there.

Wew lad.

[Hotdog60]

I think if Sweet can stop Gawn and Jackson from knocking the ball down Petracca and Oliver's throat its a win even if he doesn't win the tap. If we can neutralise the contest and let our mids do their work it will go a long way in our favour so how many hit outs don't worry so much as long as the other team doesn't get an advantage.

[hujsh]

I think if Sweet can stop Gawn and Jackson from knocking the ball down Petracca and Oliver's throat its a win even if he doesn't win the tap. If we can neutralise the contest and let our mids do their work it will go a long way in our favour so how many hit outs don't worry so much as long as the other team doesn't get an advantage.

Can he though? Honest question because while I understand the theory of Sweet as second ruck against most teams I wonder if Gawn is actually too good for it to apply?

[Hotdog60]

It may well be that Gawn or even Jackson will be too good but I can't see any of our other ruck option doing any better. Sweet is a big body and I have more faith in him holding his ground than the others.

[Danjul]

How very dare you Danj ! :)
The young bloke who took me into the medallion area so I could get a better view of the game commented a number of times about how well McNeil was playing.

I have to believe him because all the players still looked the same.

[bornadog]

We must tag Oliver out of the game

[GVGjr]

We must tag Oliver out of the game

He's missing this week with an injured thumb, maybe he won't recover in time.

[Happy Days]

Wew lad.

You’re going about it the right way to feel these hands my man

[Happy Days]

Pause

[jeemak]

Not sure what that means.

I am under the impression that people want an out of form (for understandable reasons) Bruce playing against Melbourne because he is, well, Bruce.

I’m simply pointing out that we have a player who has done what will probably be needed, in next week’s game. He can play forward and/or back. He has done both well, the internet says that. Could also be a disaster and won’t be risked is my guess.

How do we maximise our result?

I was replying to posts that suggested putting someone in a position that they haven't trained specifically for isn't a big deal.

It had nothing to do with any of your posts.

[jeemak]

Sorry. I don’t want want Schache in the ruck. He has failed every time we have tried it. It detracts from his skill set. Melbourne have two good ruckmen and that section of the game has troubled us significantly recently.

But I agree with you about Keath. I thought he had a problem in the last 2 games so you are right to think ahead about possibilities there. It will be interesting to see how it all goes.

It didn't fail when we beat them last year when he was playing defence and also pinch hitting in the ruck.

In that game Gawn had 56 hit outs and Jackson 9 (plus McDonald with two), both more than English at 14 and Shache at 4. However, we won, with Schache playing defence and Bruce playing forward and Lever only taking four marks and May taking one.

So what I am saying is, bring Schache in to play wherever we need him to, and let Bruce do whatever he can to curtail Lever and May and hopefully get onto the end of one or two.

[jeemak]

We should actually be excited right now. Our season is alive after the Norf vs. Richmond result, and if we're honest the Carlton loss.

[boydogs]

We should actually be excited right now. Our season is alive after the Norf vs. Richmond result, and if we're honest the Carlton loss.

5 teams (on 9 wins or 8 and one to play) fighting for 8th spot, still 2 games behind 7th, and we have the toughest draw

Probably have to beat 2/3 top 4 sides in the next 3 weeks to make it, if we do though no-one would want to be playing us

[jeemak]

5 teams (on 9 wins or 8 and one to play) fighting for 8th spot, still 2 games behind 7th, and we have the toughest draw

Probably have to beat 2/3 top 4 sides in the next 3 weeks to make it, if we do though no-one would want to be playing us

The manipulation of the fixture is pretty silly. It's for another thread, but I really hope we get to a one game against each side status - this year at home and next year away vibe.

[Scraggers]

Wow … what a read. There’s some angry little ants on this thread :)

But we are (finally) in a position where we have choices in selection and it’s great to be there at this time of the year. I still believe our chance at finals is in our hands. (We don’t have to rely on other team results … yet)

I think we have to play Marra, Bruce and Naughty together. May, Lever take Bruce and Naughty … who gets JUH? and West … and Weightman. You throw Bont forward as well and all of a sudden Melbourne have run out of backmen.

I also think Sweet plays as does Schache. I know this makes us super tall, but Schache gives us a bit more flexibility. I think he takes Treloar’s HBF position and Ads comes into the wing.

So my ins are Schache and Naughty. My outs are McNeil and Garcia (both very unlucky)

[bornadog]

We have to stop the Melbourne attack which starts from the backline through the wing.

[Bulldog4life]

One of the aspects in why the two ruck preference might be in play is that English hasn't looked himself in the last 2 weeks and Sweet does offer the best chop out we can find at the moment.

I think I would prefer Schache as well.

Me too.

[Bulldog4life]

I just think they will realise how far off it he is. He has looked ordinary in his 2's games in regards to movement. We can't afford to take him in against Melbourne and Geelong considering they have the best defences. You may be right but I think they rolled the dice this week with Bruce as the 2's had a bye.

Yep reckon he only got in because of Naughty being out and no VFL too.

[Bulldog4life]

And the Saints had 6 of their players with the most marks (yes the top 6). More contested possessions, more uncontested possessions, more kicks and disposals and less turnovers. Yet never looked in the game. Stats aren’t necessarily what wins you games. Sometimes players bring different traits to a game that is immeasurable. Bruce was providing guidance and direction to Marra (and others) - maybe this played a role in us winning the game.

Noticed this and Marra said it himself. Helped him for sure.

[westbulldog]

If Hunter comes back in please don't put him on Langdon who will run him ragged just like in last year's GF when Langdon was a matchwinner while Hunter ran up and down on the spot.

[MrMahatma]

If Hunter comes back in please don't put him on Langdon who will run him ragged just like in last year's GF when Langdon was a matchwinner while Hunter ran up and down on the spot.

As a fan of Lauchie and a non-fan of Scott, I’d be bringing Scott in this week, not Hunter.

Truck had been looking good on a wing mid-season but he’s fallen away the last couple. Still worth persisting with though.

[whythelongface]

Yep reckon he only got in because of Naughty being out and no VFL too.

Wasn’t Bruce selected as well as Naughts? Or perhaps they had an inkling that Naughts would be out. Either way this week a tough call to be made re Bruce. Part of me is keen to see him stay as he helps our structure but I also think he needs to continue his comeback in the VFL to work on his fitness and game. Either way tough call and one I gladly don’t need to make.

[Bulldog4life]

Wasn’t Bruce selected as well as Naughts? Or perhaps they had an inkling that Naughts would be out. Either way this week a tough call to be made re Bruce. Part of me is keen to see him stay as he helps our structure but I also think he needs to continue his comeback in the VFL to work on his fitness and game. Either way tough call and one I gladly don’t need to make.

Not sure about that. Possibly.

[MrMahatma]

Bevo said in one of his pressers, or maybe before the match, that we’d tried to play all 3 this week but Naughton being out prevented that. So I reckon all 3 play this week.

[Bulldog4life]

Bevo said in one of his pressers, or maybe before the match, that we’d tried to play all 3 this week but Naughton being out prevented that. So I reckon all 3 play this week.

Yes heard that too.

[kruder]

Bevo said in one of his pressers, or maybe before the match, that we’d tried to play all 3 this week but Naughton being out prevented that. So I reckon all 3 play this week.

Postgame it was, he was basically hinting that Sweet will be out. I'd be surprised if Schache comes in I'd suggest Keath would have to be out if so.

[kruder]

Treloar spoke about Daniel on crunch time and he said he is training really well and said either this week or next. Feel wise from his comments he let it out of the bag a little I think he is a chance this week.

[merantau]

It may well be that Gawn or even Jackson will be too good but I can't see any of our other ruck option doing any better. Sweet is a big body and I have more faith in him holding his ground than the others.
I can remember Tom Campbell playing a very good game on Gawn a few years back. Sweet haa size and doesn't mind a bit of bash and crash.

[comrade]

I can remember Tom Campbell playing a very good game on Gawn a few years back. Sweet haa size and doesn't mind a bit of bash and crash.

It’s antithesis to Bevo’s philosophy but for a specific role like ruck, if you can’t have an elite type like Gawn who can do it all, I am happy to eschew versatility and just select a physical, aggressive meat axe type to just blunt and nullify the opposition. Partner him up with that athletic, versatile type as the 2nd ruck/forward to work over the opposition pair. We have it completely wrong in my opinion but I guess that’s why they get paid the big bucks and I’m the one shouting at the tv.

[Rocco Jones]

Gawn seems to be really struggling at the moment returning from his ankle injury. I wonder if we can use that at all.

[Happy Days]

Gawn seems to be really struggling at the moment returning from his ankle injury. I wonder if we can use that at all.

My man why.

[Testekill]

I can remember Tom Campbell playing a very good game on Gawn a few years back. Sweet haa size and doesn't mind a bit of bash and crash.

Seriously just let Sweet run into Gawn and work him over while English gets to pick up the crumbs, opposition do it all the time to us by having a bash & crash ruck work over English.

[Scorlibo]

I'm also inclined to have Sweet play against Gawn-Jackson, but there are a couple of counter points: English played quite well in Round 1 as the sole ruckman, he won 8 clearances and we won the clearances overall 40-30. In the GF, English and Martin as a combination were well beaten by Gawn and Jackson, allowing Melbourne to waltz out the front of the centre clearances.

There's also the prospect of Naughton returning to a forward line already containing a developing Jamarra and rehabilitating Bruce. Can we really also afford to rest Sweet/English? We would be going in very tall in the forward line. If Sweet plays then I think Bruce must miss.

My main concern is that down back we don't really have match ups for Pickett and Fritsch. They had 11 scoring shots between them against Port. Possibly Scott could come in to play a role. Hannan has the athletic profile to match Fritsch (although was underwhelming defensively against the Saints). Our team defence will need to be on song to limit their opportunities.

[Grantysghost]

Bevo singled out English' performance in his press conference.
I'm doubtful Sweet will play if Naughton is right.

[Bulldog4life]

Bevo singled out English' performance in his press conference.
I'm doubtful Sweet will play if Naughton is right.

Yep mentioned Tim was responsible for getting the fast start against Saints.

[Happy Days]

English’s ruck work was awesome. It was just pretty much everything else that was off for him.

[azabob]

Bevo singled out English' performance in his press conference.
I'm doubtful Sweet will play if Naughton is right.

Do we believe everything Luke Beveridge tells the media?

Or could Bevo be foxing and trying to pump Timmy up after two games where he was just ok around the ground?

[Grantysghost]

Do we believe everything Luke Beveridge tells the media?

Or could Bevo be foxing and trying to pump Timmy up after two games where he was just ok around the ground?

It didn't feel that way but I wouldn't be surprised!

[bornadog]

Do we believe everything Luke Beveridge tells the media?

Or could Bevo be foxing and trying to pump Timmy up after two games where he was just ok around the ground?

Well what was was your opinion.? He had the most hitouts on the ground?

[G-Mo77]

Bevo won't play 2 rucks, even if Sweet went for 10 marks 50 hitouts he still would get dropped.

Not sure how we'll play this? Bruce will stay in and if Naughton comes back we're likely a little top heavy if we play Sweet. Ideally we'd give Bruce stints in the ruck but we can't do that at this stage of his recovery. It'll be interesting.... They better not do something stupid like play Buku as backup ruck, it's stupid enough it'll probably happen again.

[Bulldog4life]

If Sweet goes out will Schache come in? He can play back, forward/ 2nd ruck...although if Naughty in we would be too tall you would think in forward line. Maybe medi sub.

[Mantis]

Bevo won't play 2 rucks, even if Sweet went for 10 marks 50 hitouts he still would get dropped.

Not sure how we'll play this? Bruce will stay in and if Naughton comes back we're likely a little top heavy if we play Sweet. Ideally we'd give Bruce stints in the ruck but we can't do that at this stage of his recovery. It'll be interesting.... They better not do something stupid like play Buku as backup ruck, it's stupid enough it'll probably happen again.

Not sure how we could play Bruce again based on his performance against St.Kilda... I want to see him do well, but he really battled and to be any chance against Melb we just can't allow the intercept marks that we've given up the last 2 weeks.

[Bulldog4life]

Not sure how we could play Bruce again based on his performance against St.Kilda... I want to see him do well, but he really battled and to be any chance against Melb we just can't allow the intercept marks that we've given up the last 2 weeks.

Noticed he had trouble leaping and/or misreading his leaps going for marks.

[azabob]

Well what was was your opinion.? He had the most hitouts on the ground?

In my view English was disappointing against both the Swans and Saints.

He was outworked against the swans and may have won the hitouts against the saints but he only got 8 touches against Toth saints and 13 against the swans.

[Rocco Jones]

In: Schache, Naughts, Hunter, Scott
Out: Sweet, Bruce, Truck, McNeil

- If Hunter and Scott are okay and ready to run, I'd have them in
- Schache as R2/fwd. Gives us a bit of mobility. I get wanting to play Sweet too but really don't want him and Juice in same side whatever we go with
- Hard on Juice and I think the right call to go with him last week. Just the worst possible side for him to play against.

[Grantysghost]

In: Schache, Naughts, Hunter, Scott
Out: Sweet, Bruce, Truck, McNeil

- If Hunter and Scott are okay and ready to run, I'd have them in
- Schache as R2/fwd. Gives us a bit of mobility. I get wanting to play Sweet too but really don't want him and Juice in same side whatever we go with
- Hard on Juice and I think the right call to go with him last week. Just the worst possible side for him to play against.

I think Bruce stays Bevo was all about having all 3 of them down there to stretch opposition (Naughts, Bruce, Marra) so I'm thinking the template will out vote the match ups.

[Rocco Jones]

I think Bruce stays Bevo was all about having all 3 of them down there to stretch opposition (Naughts, Bruce, Marra) so I'm thinking the template will out vote the match ups.

Yeah, Schache can replace Bruce there as one of the three.

I prefer Sweet in the ruck and Juice up forward to Schache. My issue is having Bruce and Sweet in the same 22 against the Dees.

[Grantysghost]

Yeah, Schache can replace Bruce there as one of the three.

I prefer Sweet in the ruck and Juice up forward to Schache. My issue is having Bruce and Sweet in the same 22 against the Dees.

Like it.

I think I'd so the same.

[Hotdog60]

May be Bruce has general soreness this week :)

[Rocco Jones]

May be Bruce has general soreness this week :)

'Managed'.

I do not believe not playing him this week is admission that we made a mistake playing him last week (and even if so, compounding a mistake is stupid),

We had Schache out. The Saints KPD without Howard = VFL level. Dees feast on immobile forwards.

[Grantysghost]

'Managed'.

I do not believe not playing him this week is admission that we made a mistake playing him last week (and even if so, compounding a mistake is stupid),

We had Schache out. The Saints KPD without Howard = VFL level. Dees feast on immobile forwards.

He actually mentioned on the abc interview that it was a bit rushed.
I think it was a slip of the tongue because when pressed (I think by Ling) he went back into his media training kit bag.

I'll see if I can find the interview.

[boydogs]

He actually mentioned on the abc interview that it was a bit rushed.
I think it was a slip of the tongue because when pressed (I think by Ling) he went back into his media training kit bag.

I'll see if I can find the interview.

The news that he was making his return came out on like Tuesday so wouldn't appear to be related to a late covid diagnosis for Naughton or anything

[bornadog]

In my view English was disappointing against both the Swans and Saints.

He was outworked against the swans and may have won the hitouts against the saints but he only got 8 touches against Toth saints and 13 against the swans.

So different standards for Tim v Sweet

[jeemak]

English had some really bad moments outside of the ruck contests, but clearly performed well within them.

It's not strange that somebody would come back from concussion and not perform perfectly. But, I back him to round out his game from here and it's a massive positive he performed well against a pretty good combo in the actual ruck craft last week.

[jeemak]

So different standards for Tim v Sweet

Yes, they should be held to different standards due to their development overall.

Sweet is a developing first ruck, I'm sure trying his best and learning his craft. We all want the best for him, but with Tim playing his position is always going to be tenuous unless he can show consistent capabilities outside of the single act of rucking.

[G-Mo77]

Not sure how we could play Bruce again based on his performance against St.Kilda... I want to see him do well, but he really battled and to be any chance against Melb we just can't allow the intercept marks that we've given up the last 2 weeks.

Agree but I don't think they'll drop him Mantis.

[merantau]

Gawn seems to be really struggling at the moment returning from his ankle injury. I wonder if we can use that at all.

Ah, the old ankle tap! One of the oldest tricks in the book.

[azabob]

So different standards for Tim v Sweet

Not sure of your point?

I am purely judging English on his past performances and what his strengths are - disposals around the ground.

88% game time against the saints and only 8 touches is underwhelming.

I've edited this posted as English had 8 touches V the saints and 13 against the swans.

[Grantysghost]

Not sure of your point?

I am purely judging English on his past performances and what his strengths are - disposals around the ground.

88% game time against the saints and only 13 touches is underwhelming.

The Saints game plan might have had some effect. They played low and slow particularly out of defence.

Really poorly mind you the amount of times they turned it over with poor decisions or disposal was laughable.

Point is they weren't going high and long which would have been to Tim's advantage.

[Bulldog4life]

Not sure of your point?

I am purely judging English on his past performances and what his strengths are - disposals around the ground.

88% game time against the saints and only 13 touches is underwhelming.

If Sweety did this it would be a god send.

[azabob]

Not sure of your point?

I am purely judging English on his past performances and what his strengths are - disposals around the ground.

88% game time against the saints and only 13 touches is underwhelming.


The Saints game plan might have had some effect. They played low and slow particularly out of defence.

Really poorly mind you the amount of times they turned it over with poor decisions or disposal was laughable.

Point is they weren't going high and long which would have been to Tim's advantage.


If Sweety did this it would be a god send.

Actually English had 88% game time for only EIGHT touches and Sweet played 61% game time for six touches.

[Rocco Jones]

Ah, the old ankle tap! One of the oldest tricks in the book.

Hahaha.

I wasn't meaning we try to hurt Gawn directly but more use his impediment strategically.

[bornadog]

Actually English had 88% game time for only EIGHT touches and Sweet played 61% game time for six touches.

My point is when Sweet has 5 touches like a couple of weeks ago, you accepted that it was not just the touches and it was ok. I was stirring you a bit comparing him to Englishes low disposals.

Other than the past two weeks, English has been getting around 20 per game. I still maintain Sweet doesn't do enough around the ground, whether VFL or AFL. He has away to go and has only played 11 AFL games.

I think it is hard for the MC to work out who stays in and who is out amongst the talls up forward.

[jeemak]

My point is when Sweet has 5 touches like a couple of weeks ago, you accepted that it was not just the touches and it was ok. I was stirring you a bit comparing him to Englishes low disposals.

Other than the past two weeks, English has been getting around 20 per game. I still maintain Sweet doesn't do enough around the ground, whether VFL or AFL. He has away to go and has only played 11 AFL games.

I think it is hard for the MC to work out who stays in and who is out amongst the talls up forward.

Tim has to get both hit outs and touches to be of value while Sweet only needs to compete at ruck contests to be of value.

Don't overcomplicate it.

[bornadog]

Tim has to get both hit outs and touches to be of value while Sweet only needs to compete at ruck contests to be of value.

Don't overcomplicate it.

No worries Jee. :D

How may ruck contests in a game? 5% of game time? maybe 10%?

[MrMahatma]

Is it the disposals or the lower game time that's the issue? I mean, it hurts rotations. That said, does winning more clearances provide more rest for the team cause they aren't chasing so much? Maybe it's not about the stats, and more about the strategy? Two rucks to give us best chance to win clearances and protect defenders, as opposed to who wins the most hit outs.

I do think a decision like this can be over complicated. I'd go with the 2 rucks cause I think without it, no matter how well English does, the 2nd ruck will get torched and so there's about 7 mins per quarter that our mids are chasing harder and our defenders are more likely under the pump.

[bornadog]

Is it the disposals or the lower game time that's the issue? I mean, it hurts rotations. That said, does winning more clearances provide more rest for the team cause they aren't chasing so much? Maybe it's not about the stats, and more about the strategy? Two rucks to give us best chance to win clearances and protect defenders, as opposed to who wins the most hit outs.

I do think a decision like this can be over complicated. I'd go with the 2 rucks cause I think without it, no matter how well English does, the 2nd ruck will get torched and so there's about 7 mins per quarter that our mids are chasing harder and our defenders are more likely under the pump.

We are the number one clearance team, and while this is so, Rucks are not our number one issue.

However, the ruck needs a chop out as you said, for say 5 to 7 minutes a quarter, BUT, for the rest of the time, the second ruck has to be productive.

[MrMahatma]

We are the number one clearance team, and while this is so, Rucks are not our number one issue.

However, the ruck needs a chop out as you said, for say 5 to 7 minutes a quarter, BUT, for the rest of the time, the second ruck has to be productive.

Is it better to be non-competitive in the ruck and sneak forward and jag a goal, or be competitive in the ruck and help the team score an extra goal?

I reckon you either decide you do 2 rucks or you don’t. Weighing up players makes it messy cause there’s no player that is decent 2nd ruck and good elsewhere. They’re either poor second ruck and good/ok elsewhere (Schache) or decent 2nd ruck and poor elsewhere (Sweet).

Surely just cause we win lots of clearances doesn’t mean we can’t try and win more? We leak goals also, and no doubt part of that is from lost clearances. Certainly centre bounces.

[jeemak]

Is there a stat for scores from clearances that's readily available?

[bornadog]

Is there a stat for scores from clearances that's readily available?

Probably but not sure where to get it. We are ranked 1 in centre clearances

[azabob]

Probably but not sure where to get it. We are ranked 1 in centre clearances

Here are the top five clubs for clearances

1. Dogs
2. Crows
3. Lions
4. Suns
5. Power

Geelong are 7th and Melbourne are 10th

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2022&type=TT&sby=29&advv=Y

Don't really know what looking at clearances in isolation show other than the best two teams in it sit 7th and 10th.

[comrade]

Here are the top five clubs for clearances

1. Dogs
2. Crows
3. Lions
4. Suns
5. Power

Geelong are 7th and Melbourne are 10th

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2022&type=TT&sby=29&advv=Y

Don't really know what looking at clearances in isolation show other than the best two teams in it sit 7th and 10th.

It shows clearances mean very little and why our ranking has no reflection on the effectiveness of our ruck set up. I’d like to see the stat for goals generated via D50 turn over after losing the clearance. Geelong and Melbourne back their system to generate scores after forcing turnovers so losing a messy, high bomb clearance isn’t a problem for them, it’s actually a feature not a bug. They want dirty clearances inside their D50 so the likes of Lever, May, Stewart, De Konig etc can mop it up and sling shot them the other way. I wouldn’t be surprised if Geelong and Melbourne are both very high in this stat.

[mjp]

It shows clearances mean very little and why our ranking has no reflection on the effectiveness of our ruck set up.

Well - you can only score in three ways:

1/. Turnover
2/. Kick-in
3/. Clearance.

EVERY Team - EVERY SINGLE ONE - would score most from TO, next from Clearance and lastly from Kick-in. So clearances are meaningful. Melbourne running out the front of stoppage in the GF (and the prelim vs Geelong) was a big reason for a score.

NO TEAM sets up to lose a clearance. I think you are correct in saying that teams value a 'hard out' by the oppo as much as a 'hard out' win by themselves (but not as highly as a 'clean' clearance win!) but to suggest clearances don't matter is folly.

[Danjul]

Here are the top five clubs for clearances

1. Dogs
2. Crows
3. Lions
4. Suns
5. Power

Geelong are 7th and Melbourne are 10th

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2022&type=TT&sby=29&advv=Y

Don't really know what looking at clearances in isolation show other than the best two teams in it sit 7th and 10th.

Total clearances doesn’t correlate with ladder position as well as game clearances correlate with game result.

we have had 3 more clearances per game this year (on average) than Geelong. This blurs good outcomes with bad outcomes over a long period of time.

Recently, We all clearly saw that Geelong’s return from clearances depended upon who the opposing second ruck was. That was the circumstance that snuffed out our resurgence against them in the recent game . Those 5 or 6 clearances were the critical ones that boosted ladder position.

Same in the third quarter of the grand final, centre ruck clearances caused an unstoppable avalanche of goals in that game.

[jeemak]

What I would really like to see is the scores from clearances stat differential in the games where we have lost. The claim was made that having a second ruck who is a ruck would help curtail the opposition's ability to score from clearances.

So if there's that stat available it might actually help test the hypothesis rather than going around in circles.

[Before I Die]

Total clearances doesn’t correlate with ladder position as well as game clearances correlate with game result.

we have had 3 more clearances per game this year (on average) than Geelong. This blurs good outcomes with bad outcomes over a long period of time.

Recently, We all clearly saw that Geelong’s return from clearances depended upon who the opposing second ruck was. That was the circumstance that snuffed out our resurgence against them in the recent game . Those 5 or 6 clearances were the critical ones that boosted ladder position.

Same in the third quarter of the grand final, centre ruck clearances caused an unstoppable avalanche of goals in that game.

I didn’t see that clearly and no one, including you, have provided any data to support it. For someone who constantly quotes isolated statistics as meaningful in their own right, it is somewhat telling that you are now relying on anecdotal evidence.

The ruck contests matter, but they are not the reason we have only won 9 games. It has been due to a lack of defensive 50 turnovers and failing to defend forward 50 turnovers.

[Danjul]

I didn’t see that clearly and no one, including you, have provided any data to support it. For someone who constantly quotes isolated statistics as meaningful in their own right, it is somewhat telling that you are now relying on anecdotal evidence.

The ruck contests matter, but they are not the reason we have only won 9 games. It has been due to a lack of defensive 50 turnovers and failing to defend forward 50 turnovers.

OK.

Look at the Essendon game from last year, cost us the double chance (on both points and percentage).

Essendon won by about 20 points. The AFL website said 39 of them came from clearances.

So now you have Three examples that you have seen with your own eyes. So they are not anecdotal. You are a primary witness.

Ignore the facts if you wish.

[mjp]

Same in the third quarter of the grand final, centre ruck clearances caused an unstoppable avalanche of goals in that game.

I love so much of your work mate but 'centre ruck clearances'...what do you mean? If you mean Jackson dominating in the ruck caused us to allow Melbourne to march out of the front of stoppage then I am calling BS. There are 4x players in there not one.

If you are saying that Melbourne's CBD dominance - ruck advantage, ground ball supremacy and our either can't or wont (depending on your generousity) approach to team defending in a contest - caused the outcome, then...fine.

[Danjul]

I love so much of your work mate but 'centre ruck clearances'...what do you mean? If you mean Jackson dominating in the ruck caused us to allow Melbourne to march out of the front of stoppage then I am calling BS. There are 4x players in there not one.

If you are saying that Melbourne's CBD dominance - ruck advantage, ground ball supremacy and our either can't or wont (depending on your generousity) approach to team defending in a contest - caused the outcome, then...fine.


With respect to the grand final, l think the most important factor in our loss was how we got there. Three exhausting games on the road with difficult circumstances between games due to Covid. The players did a remarkable job simply to get there, they were not as rested as their opponents.

But in the third quarter we were ahead and in the space of 10 minutes had surrendered the lead. That change started in ruck contests. Whether the others could or couldn’t reverse the circumstances is secondary. Jackson made his reputation in those few minutes. After that period the dogs were spent and nobody was able to stop the the rout. The whole team did well to get there. The whole team lost due to bad luck ( pandemic). But the critical moments were when Melbourne got 3 goals in almost as many minutes.

( I can remember a Melbourne player running at full speed and Jackson putting the ball in his hands. No midfielder in the competition could have changed the consequences.)

[merantau]

Hahaha.

I wasn't meaning we try to hurt Gawn directly but more use his impediment strategically.

Yeah, I suspected that but the old Western Suburbs ethos runs deep in my veins. Remember Steve Kretiuk giving Matthew Lloyd's hand guard a road test? That was classic St Albans. Not cricket but very Douglas Jardine and Bodyline!

[Before I Die]

OK.

Look at the Essendon game from last year, cost us the double chance (on both points and percentage).

Essendon won by about 20 points. The AFL website said 39 of them came from clearances.

So now you have Three examples that you have seen with your own eyes. So they are not anecdotal. You are a primary witness.

Ignore the facts if you wish.

I think I'm tumbling down the rabbit hole, but here goes.

We lost by 13 points

We had 60 inside 50s to 39

We had 24 scoring shots to 22

We had 20 marks inside forward 50 to 13

Peter Wright kicked 7 goals straight

Essendon kicked 15 Goals 7 Behinds

Essendon Goal Accuracy 65.2%

Western Bulldogs Goal Accuracy 36.4%

Did we lose the Clearances that day? Yes!

Is that why we lost? It likely contributed, but we had 21 more inside 50s. The deciding factor on the day was their uncanny accuracy.

As an aside, Josh Bruce kicked 3 Goals 2 Behinds that day and did the relief rucking. If you think playing Sweet that day would have made a difference to the outcome then that's fine. Each to their own opinion. But if you think the stats from that game support your argument, then you are kidding yourself.

By the way, it's not a question of ignoring facts, it's a question of considering all the factors rather than just cherry picking individual numbers to support a preconceived position.

As an aside, I really hope Sweet makes it, but he is just a support act when needed at the moment.

I'll do my best to stay out of the Sweet debate moving forward.

[mjp]

( I can remember a Melbourne player running at full speed and Jackson putting the ball in his hands. No midfielder in the competition could have changed the consequences.)

Ummm. When the route is on you need to protect front of stoppage with structure.

Any AFL standard midfielder prepared to sacrifice their game could have held and stuck a tackle - or at the very least forced the Melbourne mids to track sideways.

Anyway - I'm exhausted talking about Q3 GF. Our structure was poor and our mindset was worse and, well, that's in the past. I still don't know what you mean by 'Centre Ruck Clearances' - I have just never heard that terminology before. What you have described from the GF is a hitout to advantage (HA) and their correlation to clearances won and scores from clearances is actually pretty tenuous...

BUT. I will say if the oppo isn't set up to counter positive work by a ruckman such as Natanui, Gawn (or, sic - Jackson!), well, it can be a disaster.

[Grantysghost]

I think I'm tumbling down the rabbit hole, but here goes.

We lost by 13 points

We had 60 inside 50s to 39

We had 24 scoring shots to 22

We had 20 marks inside forward 50 to 13

Peter Wright kicked 7 goals straight

Essendon kicked 15 Goals 7 Behinds

Essendon Goal Accuracy 65.2%

Western Bulldogs Goal Accuracy 36.4%

Did we lose the Clearances that day? Yes!

Is that why we lost? It likely contributed, but we had 21 more inside 50s. The deciding factor on the day was their uncanny accuracy.

As an aside, Josh Bruce kicked 3 Goals 2 Behinds that day and did the relief rucking. If you think playing Sweet that day would have made a difference to the outcome then that's fine. Each to their own opinion. But if you think the stats from that game support your argument, then you are kidding yourself.

By the way, it's not a question of ignoring facts, it's a question of considering all the factors rather than just cherry picking individual numbers to support a preconceived position.

As an aside, I really hope Sweet makes it, but he is just a support act when needed at the moment.

I'll do my best to stay out of the Sweet debate moving forward.

I remember in that game Essendon scored something insane from stoppages. Like 14 goals (don't quote me).

Edit : Found it

The Bombers won clearances 47-31, centre bounce clearances 18-12 and scored 70 points from stoppage chains to the Bulldogs 21 points from this source. 39 of the 70 points came from centre bounce chains.

[Danjul]

I think I'm tumbling down the rabbit hole, but here goes.

We lost by 13 points

We had 60 inside 50s to 39

We had 24 scoring shots to 22

We had 20 marks inside forward 50 to 13

Peter Wright kicked 7 goals straight

Essendon kicked 15 Goals 7 Behinds

Essendon Goal Accuracy 65.2%

Western Bulldogs Goal Accuracy 36.4%

Did we lose the Clearances that day? Yes!

Is that why we lost? It likely contributed, but we had 21 more inside 50s. The deciding factor on the day was their uncanny accuracy.

As an aside, Josh Bruce kicked 3 Goals 2 Behinds that day and did the relief rucking. If you think playing Sweet that day would have made a difference to the outcome then that's fine. Each to their own opinion. But if you think the stats from that game support your argument, then you are kidding yourself.

By the way, it's not a question of ignoring facts, it's a question of considering all the factors rather than just cherry picking individual numbers to support a preconceived position.

As an aside, I really hope Sweet makes it, but he is just a support act when needed at the moment.
He
I'll do my best to stay out of the Sweet debate moving forward.with that game I am referring to the link between ruck and scoring. The article on the afl site about the game said they scored 6:3=39 from ruck clearances. I had forgotten that the game was as close as you say. Accuracy was certainly another major factor. Wright got a goal with almost all of his possessions, I think some were outside the 50 m arc. And some of Essendon’s goals were easy following perfect exits from the centre.

Anyway, my original comment was saying that hitouts or whatever over the season aren’t a good indication of team success. You need to look at hitouts and clearances within a game. I still stand by that statement. Earlier in the season I coined the phrase “Cordy effect” when he went into the ruck the opposition seemed to get a few quick goals. Without examining every game in detail I can remember other cases where non- ruckmen had similar outcomes. Such as the Geelong game.

[Bulldog4life]

With respect to the grand final, l think the most important factor in our loss was how we got there. Three exhausting games on the road with difficult circumstances between games due to Covid. The players did a remarkable job simply to get there, they were not as rested as their opponents.

But in the third quarter we were ahead and in the space of 10 minutes had surrendered the lead. That change started in ruck contests. Whether the others could or couldn’t reverse the circumstances is secondary. Jackson made his reputation in those few minutes. After that period the dogs were spent and nobody was able to stop the the rout. The whole team did well to get there. The whole team lost due to bad luck ( pandemic). But the critical moments were when Melbourne got 3 goals in almost as many minutes.

( I can remember a Melbourne player running at full speed and Jackson putting the ball in his hands. No midfielder in the competition could have changed the consequences.)

Chris Scott said similar on Fox the other night. Blew my mind hearing him say it rather than a doggie supporter.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Here are the top five clubs for clearances

1. Dogs
2. Crows
3. Lions
4. Suns
5. Power

Geelong are 7th and Melbourne are 10th

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2022&type=TT&sby=29&advv=Y

Don't really know what looking at clearances in isolation show other than the best two teams in it sit 7th and 10th.

These stats would suggest an inadequate forward line, with an over reliance on Naughton.
The loss of Bruce has been costly given the number of forward combinations used this year

[Scorlibo]

Here are the top five clubs for clearances

1. Dogs
2. Crows
3. Lions
4. Suns
5. Power

Geelong are 7th and Melbourne are 10th

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2022&type=TT&sby=29&advv=Y

Don't really know what looking at clearances in isolation show other than the best two teams in it sit 7th and 10th.

FYI you can also access team differentials (eg. clearances won minus clearances lost) on Footywire:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2022&type=DA&sby=29&advv=Y

With the differentials, there's a fairly clear correlation with ladder position. Crows drop to 8th. Geelong are 5th and Melbourne are 7th. We're 1st by a mile.

[boydogs]

Good debate. The unfortunate thing is Sweet will probably be dropped for Naughton and we’ll be having the same debate again next week

[azabob]

ROUND 19 TEAM
Western Bulldogs v Melbourne
Saturday 23 July, 7.25pm AEST
Marvel Stadium

B: Ed Richards, Ryan Gardner, Buku Khamis
HB: Mitch Hannan, Alex Keath, Bailey Dale
C: Bailey Williams, Tom Liberatore, Jack Macrae
HF: Jason Johannisen, Josh Bruce, Bailey Smith
F: Josh Dunkley, Aaron Naughton, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan
R: Tim English, Marcus Bontempelli, Adam Treloar
Int: Rhylee West, Cody Weightman, Riley Garcia, Lachlan McNeil
Emer: Zaine Cordy, Robbie McComb, Laith Vandermeer, Jordon Sweet

In: Aaron Naughton
Out: Jordon Sweet (omitted), Luke Cleary (medi-sub)

[azabob]

No surprise with the one change.

No Hunter is interesting. Wonder if he will play vfl?

I’m not loving our emergencies and potential medi-sub

[BornInDroopSt'54]

No surprise with the one change.

No Hunter is interesting. Wonder if he will play vfl?

I’m not loving our emergencies and potential medi-sub
Surely. Coming off Covid.

[Grantysghost]

Tomlinson out again for Demons.

Thought he was reasonable last game might be a defensive option for us.

[Grantysghost]

No surprise with the one change.

No Hunter is interesting. Wonder if he will play vfl?

I’m not loving our emergencies and potential medi-sub

I told you 90 percent of the time we lose every time he plays.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Finally Bruce and Naughton together.
Let's feed them and our decoys, jumping on the chest.
Is there a stat for jumping chest marks , my fav because it means the delivery is good?

[Mantis]

No surprise with the one change.

No Hunter is interesting. Wonder if he will play vfl?

I’m not loving our emergencies and potential medi-sub

Who is the best out of a ''bad'' bunch?

Let's hope we don't get an in-game injury!

[Mantis]

Four small forwards named on the bench... plenty of flexibility there!

Who plays 2nd ruck?

[whythelongface]

Four small forwards named on the bench... plenty of flexibility there!

Who plays 2nd ruck?

JJ obviously

[azabob]

I told you 90 percent of the time we lose every time he plays.

Must have missed it as I don’t read 90% of your posts ;)

[azabob]

Who is the best out of a ''bad'' bunch?

Let's hope we don't get an in-game injury!

Dare I say VDM… most likely to be McComb.

[bornadog]

Four small forwards named on the bench... plenty of flexibility there!

Who plays 2nd ruck?

Guessing Buku, or Bruce

[kruder]

Our best team on paper so far this year? Time to beat a good side.

[Grantysghost]

Must have missed it as I don’t read 90% of your posts ;)

For thou art wise

[bornadog]

Good debate. The unfortunate thing is Sweet will probably be dropped for Naughton and we’ll be having the same debate again next week

Here we go :)

[kruder]

No surprise with the one change.

No Hunter is interesting. Wonder if he will play vfl?

I’m not loving our emergencies and potential medi-sub

Better emergencies than best 22:)!

[G-Mo77]

JJ obviously

Nonsense. We're going to wind back the clock and throw Mitch Hannan in there.

No surprises on changes. Happy to see Naughton back and with Bruce we should be a little more dangerous as he'll draw attention away from Naughton......hopefully. Im not looking forward to the 2nd ruck tomfoolery but think we've put our best side possible on the park.

I'll be making my long awaited return to Marvel (in different seats Grrr) so really looking forward to it.

[Before I Die]

Four small forwards named on the bench... plenty of flexibility there!

Who plays 2nd ruck?

At a guess, I’d say one or more of the following: Kamis, Hannan, Bruce, Dunkley, Bont, Naughton. Given Bruce is still building confidence in his body, I think we are likely to see all of them take at least one stoppage. Not great, but I think we’ve picked the best team. If we somehow make the finals, I expect Bruce to do all the ruck relief, though Naughton makes things happen when he competes in the ruck close to goal.

[Swoop]

Remember that we only picked one recognised ruckman last week. Sweet was only selected once Naughton was a H&S omission. Bevo has indicated he's reluctant to ruck Bruce returning from a knee injury so I've been pondering the options.

I thought Buku was the logical choice but they rarely have used him in the ruck at AFL level. Additionally, he didn't wear any of his usual protective padding that he has in the past. This indicated he wasn't the planned option. We haven't really seen the Dunkley or Bont ruck option for a long time now so I was wondering whether they were considering throwing Naughton in there for 5 minutes to free him up? Usually I can think my way through it and get pretty close to our weekly strategies based on selection, matchups and interviews but this week is a hard one to predict.

Who supports English in the ruck for 5-7 minutes a quarter?

[bornadog]

Remember that we only picked one recognised ruckman last week. Sweet was only selected once Naughton was a H&S omission. Bevo has indicated he's reluctant to ruck Bruce returning from a knee injury so I've been pondering the options.

I thought Buku was the logical choice but they rarely have used him in the ruck at AFL level. Additionally, he didn't wear any of his usual protective padding that he has in the past. This indicated he wasn't the planned option. We haven't really seen the Dunkley or Bont ruck option for a long time now so I was wondering whether they were considering throwing Naughton in there for 5 minutes to free him up? Usually I can think my way through it and get pretty close to our weekly strategies based on selection, matchups and interviews but this week is a hard one to predict.

Who supports English in the ruck for 5-7 minutes a quarter?

English?

[westbulldog]

Regarding the 2nd ruck, no worries, Bevo has confidently organized someone from the Auskick little league or Lilliput to give English his 5-7 minutes off per quarter. That we are against the best 2 ruck combination in the league who destroyed us in last years GF seems to mean sfa to Bevo, maybe he is a magician, we hope so. As an aside I would like to see Bruce do more than a 3 possession game (which attracted minimal criticism) when many ,in comparison, have Sweet on the chopping block every week no matter what he does. This game and the Richmond / Freo game will go a long way to defining our chances. Our best is good enough to beat anyone, we just have not done it for four quarters.

[Danjul]

Regarding the 2nd ruck, no worries, Bevo has confidently organized someone from the Auskick little league or Lilliput to give English his 5-7 minutes off per quarter. That we are against the best 2 ruck combination in the league who destroyed us in last years GF seems to mean sfa to Bevo, maybe he is a magician, we hope so. As an aside I would like to see Bruce do more than a 3 possession game (which attracted minimal criticism) when many ,in comparison, have Sweet on the chopping block every week no matter what he does. This game and the Richmond / Freo game will go a long way to defining our chances. Our best is good enough to beat anyone, we just have not done it for four quarters.
You are overlooking the fact that football is no longer about feet and balls. These are quaint historical concepts which mean nothing in the era of KPIs, decoys and other unfathomable concepts.

As an aside, happy games are when Bont kicks the ball a lot. And when Libba has lots of possessions.

The former had maximum kicks in games 9, 15, 18, and 10.

The latter had maximum possessions in games 16,18, 9, 15, 12. (+1 other early in the year)

Notice anything? Clue: games 9, 10, 11, 15, 16, 18.

[Mantis]

You are overlooking the fact that football is no longer about feet and balls. These are quaint historical concepts which mean nothing in the era of KPIs, decoys and other unfathomable concepts.

As an aside, happy games are when Bont kicks the ball a lot. And when Libba has lots of possessions.

The former had maximum kicks in games 9, 15, 18, and 10.

The latter had maximum possessions in games 16,18, 9, 15, 12. (+1 other early in the year)

Notice anything? Clue: games 9, 10, 11, 15, 16, 18.

Sorry, but that's just dribble... Bruce was clearly out-pointed last week with St.Kilda's key defenders taking over a dozen intercept marks... St.Kilda didn't make us pay with their poor ball use, but if we give the ball back to Melb it will be a different story.

And to your 2nd point I'm assuming we won those games?

[Axe Man]

Sorry, but that's just dribble... Bruce was clearly out-pointed last week with St.Kilda's key defenders taking over a dozen intercept marks... St.Kilda didn't make us pay with their poor ball use, but if we give the ball back to Melb it will be a different story.

And to your 2nd point I'm assuming we won those games?

You understood any of that? I'm busy searching for the Rosetta Stone to help decipher it.

[Bulldog4life]

You are overlooking the fact that football is no longer about feet and balls. These are quaint historical concepts which mean nothing in the era of KPIs, decoys and other unfathomable concepts.

As an aside, happy games are when Bont kicks the ball a lot. And when Libba has lots of possessions.

The former had maximum kicks in games 9, 15, 18, and 10.

The latter had maximum possessions in games 16,18, 9, 15, 12. (+1 other early in the year)

Notice anything? Clue: games 9, 10, 11, 15, 16, 18.

Personally I love your stats Danjul.

[jeemak]

Sorry, but that's just dribble... Bruce was clearly out-pointed last week with St.Kilda's key defenders taking over a dozen intercept marks... St.Kilda didn't make us pay with their poor ball use, but if we give the ball back to Melb it will be a different story.

And to your 2nd point I'm assuming we won those games?


You understood any of that? I'm busy searching for the Rosetta Stone to help decipher it.


You are overlooking the fact that football is no longer about feet and balls. These are quaint historical concepts which mean nothing in the era of KPIs, decoys and other unfathomable concepts.

As an aside, happy games are when Bont kicks the ball a lot. And when Libba has lots of possessions.

The former had maximum kicks in games 9, 15, 18, and 10.

The latter had maximum possessions in games 16,18, 9, 15, 12. (+1 other early in the year)

Notice anything? Clue: games 9, 10, 11, 15, 16, 18.

They're the games Sweet played.

I knew it before I checked but I checked anyway. I'm not getting involved.

[Grantysghost]

You are overlooking the fact that football is no longer about feet and balls. These are quaint historical concepts which mean nothing in the era of KPIs, decoys and other unfathomable concepts.

As an aside, happy games are when Bont kicks the ball a lot. And when Libba has lots of possessions.

The former had maximum kicks in games 9, 15, 18, and 10.

The latter had maximum possessions in games 16,18, 9, 15, 12. (+1 other early in the year)

Notice anything? Clue: games 9, 10, 11, 15, 16, 18.

If you listen to coaches talk they talk about all phases of the game.
They are when you've got it, they've got it, it's in dispute.

Theyre all equally important imo.

[azabob]

They're the games Sweet played.

I knew it before I checked but I checked anyway. I'm not getting involved.

You are involved! You can’t help yourself! I look forward to your 2.11am post on this very subject.

[mjp]

If you listen to coaches talk they talk about all phases of the game.
They are when you've got it, they've got it, it's in dispute.

Theyre all equally important imo.

Well, that's Alan Jeans famous 'philosophy' from Hawthorn in the early '80s.

If you read James Coventry's book 'Time and Space' (it is pretty awesome) he talks through concepts like the Jeans' philosophy and the changes in game-style over the years.

I think Sweet should have been selected but I ALSO think it's crazy to select English, Sweet, Naughton, Bruce and Jamarra.

One of them has to go. To me Bruce was the easy out and there is no way he should have been selected last week but he was and so now we are where we are...

[G-Mo77]

You'd know mjp. How hard is it for a coach/team selectors admit they made a mistake and go back on what they did. It's in regards to Bruce, he wasn't ready, will he be better for it? Maybe? I just knew he wouldn't be dropped because it would be admitting a mistake, I knew his spot in the side was as safe. Maybe I'm being too jaded on our selectors?

[boydogs]

They brought Hunter in and left him in the VFL this week

[Mantis]

I think Sweet should have been selected but I ALSO think it's crazy to select English, Sweet, Naughton, Bruce and Jamarra.

One of them has to go. To me Bruce was the easy out and there is no way he should have been selected last week but he was and so now we are where we are...

In the role they’re filling one of Bruce or Jamarra need to be also playing effective minutes as the 2nd ruck. If they can’t then one of them shouldn’t be playing and we play someone who can.

[Bulldog4life]

In the role they’re filling one of Bruce or Jamarra need to be also playing effective minutes as the 2nd ruck. If they can’t then one of them shouldn’t be playing and we play someone who can.

Like Schache? Hope you are not to bad either Mantis.

[Mofra]

What are the chances we see Hannan ruck?
Gardner?

Even - *gulp* - Dunkley?

I wonder why we're chasing Lobb for next year...

[Mantis]

Like Schache? Hope you are not to bad either Mantis.

Schache plays too nice to play in the ruck… just doesn’t have the hard physical edge to play the role effectively.

I’m doing ok, just a bit of fever & headaches at this stage… thanks for the kind thoughts.

[westbulldog]

You are overlooking the fact that football is no longer about feet and balls. These are quaint historical concepts which mean nothing in the era of KPIs, decoys and other unfathomable concepts.

As an aside, happy games are when Bont kicks the ball a lot. And when Libba has lots of possessions.

The former had maximum kicks in games 9, 15, 18, and 10.

The latter had maximum possessions in games 16,18, 9, 15, 12. (+1 other early in the year)

Notice anything? Clue: games 9, 10, 11, 15, 16, 18.

So if everyone in the team had 3 possessions you wouldn't drop anyone based on them doing something "unfathomable" or being a "decoy" :)

[Grantysghost]

What are the chances we see Hannan ruck?
Gardner?

Even - *gulp* - Dunkley?

I wonder why we're chasing Lobb for next year...

I was wondering if they'd use Schache being out to make the change and leave him out with Bruce back.

Didn't Bruce do the 2nd ruck stuff for a bit.

Probably be risky with his knee but he's my vote.

[Mantis]

I was wondering if they'd use Schache being out to make the change and leave him out with Bruce back.

Didn't Bruce do the 2nd ruck stuff for a bit.

Probably be risky with his knee but he's my vote.

Yep, Bruce was 2nd ruck last year for most parts… and given the make-up of the team Bruce needs to be taking a run in the ruck and if he can’t due to the knee, then he probably shouldn’t be playing at this stage.

[Danjul]

So if everyone in the team had 3 possessions you wouldn't drop anyone based on them doing something "unfathomable" or being a "decoy" :)
Personally I would make things simpler for the players.

Rule 1. Get the ball.
Rule 2. Then kick a goal or give it to someone who gives it to someone who gives it to someone who does.
Rule 3. Repeat 1 and 2 twelve times.

Otherwise go and learn how to do it in the vfl.

On this basis Bruce would not have had 8 games with 6 or less possessions for a total return 2 goals while being 1st player selected (in 2020).

But the world has moved on so I must do so too. I now believe that Bruce should always be selected because he is recognisable when the game is being played out 150 metres away. Most of the others are blurry.

And there’s always the possibility that he will get his 2021 form back.

[Bulldog4life]

Schache plays too nice to play in the ruck… just doesn’t have the hard physical edge to play the role effectively.

I’m doing ok, just a bit of fever & headaches at this stage… thanks for the kind thoughts.

I wonder if Schache will get a new contract?

[Mantis]

I wonder if Schache will get a new contract?

If we acquire players thru the trade period (Lobb and a KPD) then I would think Schache has no place and would be moved on… however I think he holds more value than Cordy as he has more tools to play a role so I would prefer he stays and Zaine departs… but maybe that’s just me.

[Grantysghost]

Personally I would make things simpler for the players.

Rule 1. Get the ball.
Rule 2. Then kick a goal or give it to someone who gives it to someone who gives it to someone who does.
Rule 3. Repeat 1 and 2 twelve times.

Otherwise go and learn how to do it in the vfl.

On this basis Bruce would not have had 8 games with 6 or less possessions for a total return 2 goals while being 1st player selected (in 2020).

But the world has moved on so I must do so too. I now believe that Bruce should always be selected because he is recognisable when the game is being played out 150 metres away. Most of the others are blurry.

And there’s always the possibility that he will get his 2021 form back.

How do you do step 1 if you don't have it?

That's equally important surely you see that? (and don't call me Shirley).

[Grantysghost]

I wonder if Schache will get a new contract?

I felt if he was dropped again he would be gone.

I get the feeling he's just not in our plans beyond this year.

[Bulldog4life]

How do you do step 1 if you don't have it?

That's equally important surely you see that? (and don't call me Shirley).

Except late on Saturday nights?

[Grantysghost]

Except late on Saturday nights?

Haha.

Airplane has so many quotable quotes !

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oKHWBujeYZcz0SaTm/giphy.gif

[Before I Die]

Personally I would make things simpler for the players.

Rule 1. Get the ball.
Rule 2. Then kick a goal or give it to someone who gives it to someone who gives it to someone who does.
Rule 3. Repeat 1 and 2 twelve times.

Otherwise go and learn how to do it in the vfl.

On this basis Bruce would not have had 8 games with 6 or less possessions for a total return 2 goals while being 1st player selected (in 2020).

But the world has moved on so I must do so too. I now believe that Bruce should always be selected because he is recognisable when the game is being played out 150 metres away. Most of the others are blurry.

And there’s always the possibility that he will get his 2021 form back.

You’re a hard man Danjul. Under those rules Sweet’s career would be over. He’s never achieved Step 1 at AFL level.

I’m hoping he can manage it today in the VFL and take a step towards being more than only a ‘break glass’ option.

[jeemak]

You’re a hard man Danjul. Under those rules Sweet’s career would be over. He’s never achieved Step 1 at AFL level.

I’m hoping he can manage it today in the VFL and take a step towards being more than only a ‘break glass’ option.

Sweet's excluded from this because he makes everyone around him invincible when he plays. But that's only Sweet, oh, and he also doesn't have to learn to do that at VFL level either. He just gets to play.

[Danjul]

You’re a hard man Danjul. Under those rules Sweet’s career would be over. He’s never achieved Step 1 at AFL level.

I’m hoping he can manage it today in the VFL and take a step towards being more than only a ‘break glass’ option.The thing I don’t understand about Sweet is why he isn’t improving. He was better last year.

He is a good kick, looks for teammates instead of doing it by himself. Nobody seems to be telling him to get the ball and kick it 50 metres. The others do it 15 times, usually turnovers, and they develop confidence.

Part of his problem is when he gets a game in the firsts he is not on the ground long enough to develop more skills - for example he is criticised as having no forward skills but have you seen him playing there long enough to develop any? It’s ruck and the bench.

[Scorlibo]

The thing I don’t understand about Sweet is why he isn’t improving. He was better last year.

He is a good kick, looks for teammates instead of doing it by himself. Nobody seems to be telling him to get the ball and kick it 50 metres. The others do it 15 times, usually turnovers, and they develop confidence.

Part of his problem is when he gets a game in the firsts he is not on the ground long enough to develop more skills - for example he is criticised as having no forward skills but have you seen him playing there long enough to develop any? It’s ruck and the bench.

Is he a good kick though? He's had some shockers in the AFL. Personally I prefer to see him handballing to a player running past, and get frustrated when no one does and he's forced to kick.

He does seem to have gone backwards this year. His VFL form was ordinary, didn't warrant a call up, but we ran out of options. I'd be looking to move him on if it weren't for Stef being on his way out.