What if the ruck problem isn't a problem (ABC news story)

[Boots]

Not explicitly about the Bulldogs but food for thought:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-23/how-port-adelaide-could-change-the-game-by-going-ruckless/101173828

Of particular interest:

Going ruckless seems to work best in a few situations. It seems to work well as a surprise tactic, especially in wetter conditions. This surprise factor can also help a makeshift ruck after an in-game injury.

Ruckless sides seem to have a real mobility advantage against slower primary rucks, and where they have ample other tall targets around the ground.
The best tap rucks present the biggest challenge to the strategy, as do the most mobile traditional rucks.

[GVGjr]

Not explicitly about the Bulldogs but food for thought:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-23/how-port-adelaide-could-change-the-game-by-going-ruckless/101173828

Of particular interest:

I want a decent 2nd string ruck man that stops the need to have Naughton, Hannan and Bontempelli competing in ruck contests

[Grantysghost]

I want a decent 2nd string ruck man that stops the need to have Naughton, Hannan and Bontempelli competing in ruck contests

Even if the basketball boundary rules come in?

[comrade]

The article fails to even touch on the structural issues when taking forwards out of the F50 to fulfil makeshift ruck minutes and the flow on effect that has to their ability to score and retain the ball. Footy isn’t compartmentalised, a change or swap of personnel in one part of the ground has an impact elsewhere.

I think they’re on the money with the surprise factor being a key to any non-traditional set ups and why the article doesn’t really reflect the issues we have with our list and selection issues. We have doubled down on playing non-rucks and going uber small so good teams can prepare and set up accordingly.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I want a decent 2nd string ruck man that stops the need to have Naughton, Hannan and Bontempelli competing in ruck contests

You would want Sweet to play a blinder tomorrow to convince like other good teams that two ruck men are essential, when English returns next week. Little point in playing a make shift second ruck man.

[Danjul]

You would want Sweet to play a blinder tomorrow to convince like other good teams that two ruck men are essential, when English returns next week. Little point in playing a make shift second ruck man.
My impression is that Sweet is not in tune with the style of play that the team is using. When we have the ball on the back line he looks for space in the corridor, effectively taking himself out of the play because the ball usually goes wide near the boundary. Unless he develops wider tracking patterns the ball carriers will not see/ignore him. I’ll be watching that.

[Mutz]

My impression is that Sweet is not in tune with the style of play that the team is using. When we have the ball on the back line he looks for space in the corridor, effectively taking himself out of the play because the ball usually goes wide near the boundary. Unless he develops wider tracking patterns the ball carriers will not see/ignore him. I’ll be watching that.
Agreed. Sweet definitely needs coaching to work out his positioning during general play. I think his tap ruck work is great but he wasn't so effective tonight against the Hawks. Then again, he seemed to learn and did a few big thumps when we were on top after Q1. The challenge now is that Schache had a decent game as second ruck and may keep that spot when Timmy returns.

[bornadog]

Agreed. Sweet definitely needs coaching to work out his positioning during general play. I think his tap ruck work is great but he wasn't so effective tonight against the Hawks. Then again, he seemed to learn and did a few big thumps when we were on top after Q1. The challenge now is that Schache had a decent game as second ruck and may keep that spot when Timmy returns.

Sweet had 7 disposals tonight and no marks

[Danjul]

Agreed. Sweet definitely needs coaching to work out his positioning during general play. I think his tap ruck work is great but he wasn't so effective tonight against the Hawks. Then again, he seemed to learn and did a few big thumps when we were on top after Q1. The challenge now is that Schache had a decent game as second ruck and may keep that spot when Timmy returns.
according to the AFL stats Schache had 3 hitouts. His time in the centre bounce didn’t work out in our favour..

[GVGjr]

according to the AFL stats Schache had 3 hitouts. His time in the centre bounce didn’t work out in our favour..

He competed well though Danjul. There was a part in the last quarter where he wrestled with multiple efforts for the ball that was in dispute. I would have liked him to have a few more hit outs but I was very happy with his effort and intent.

[Mofra]

Sweet had 7 disposals tonight and no marks
He was terrible in the first half.
Hard to step up from VFL and be the main guy but the idea he is some sort of effective ruck just needs to be put to bed.
Hit-outs mean very little in the modern game

[jeemak]

He was really ordinary in the first half but I thought he tried and worked into the game.

There's such a long way to go with him.

[hujsh]

Agree that he was well beaten early. Better second half like most of the team

[SonofScray]

Sweet was awful in the first Q.

Thought he started to compete a lot of better as the game wore on, and by the end of the game, without seeing his stats felt comfortable enough to say to my dad and brother that I thought he had a good game.

For me, it’s a bit like when you blood a full back. They are going to get bags kicked on them. Our best ever defender in Lake got touched up a few times early on. Sweet is going through the same development arc, which if we put more time into him earlier, we might have pushed through by now.

Either way, happy with his appetite for the contest and work ethic. The rest will come.

[jeemak]

These are the types of games where I'm happy for him to be given experience because he's the obvious choice as a first ruck, given Martin is seemingly/ demonstrably gone.

I can't see him developing sufficient skills to be ruck/ forward when English is right to go.

[comrade]

It matters less about who is rucking and more about what happens when the number #1 is resting. If you have enough height forward, even if you take one away to fulfil some ruck minutes, you’re left with enough support for your primary forward to create more leading lanes, more one on ones and more open space for your smalls to work in when the ball gets brought down. Bonus points for when those talls are actually decent.

The fact we stuck with just Cordy and then Khamis (when it was clear Cordy gave us nothing) to play beside Naughton as the sole forward/back up ruck when we had Marra and Schache both rotting away at Footscray is a black mark on the coaching group and will probably cost us a finals spot.

With additional genuine tall talent forward, is it any wonder we’ve scored more the last two weeks? That Naughton has had more opportunities? Or Cody got the wrong match up last week? Or West has had more space to play with?

Structure matters.

[SquirrelGrip]

according to the AFL stats Schache had 3 hitouts. His time in the centre bounce didn’t work out in our favour..

I completely disagree. The turnaround in the second quarter was when Schache was on the ball. Up until that point, Sweet was the biggest liability on the ground. Schack made second efforts and was harder at the contest. Getting back on top in the middle won us the game.

Fortunately in the second half Sweet showed more and made a positive contribution, heck he even kicked a goal!

A lot of posts on WOOF remind of the quote “Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination”.

[Bulldog4life]

He competed well though Danjul. There was a part in the last quarter where he wrestled with multiple efforts for the ball that was in dispute. I would have liked him to have a few more hit outs but I was very happy with his effort and intent.

Plus Schache's around the ground work is superior than Sweets.

[Grantysghost]

For what it's worth Bevo made a note of saying Sweet and Schache stabilised us in the ruck in the second qtr during his brief to members.

[Mofra]

For what it's worth Bevo made a note of saying Sweet and Schache stabilised us in the ruck in the second qtr during his brief to members.
Sweet had a mare in the first quarter. I still have doubts about him but to his credit he did get better as the game wore on.

As for Schache, if you're getting 2 goals out of your second ruck and he brings the ball to ground in the F50 a few times and giving your first ruck a chop out, you can't ask much more of him (or anyone). Based on the last two weeks Khamis and Cordy are not getting near the second ruck spot for a while.

[EasternWest]

Sweet had a mare in the first quarter. I still have doubts about him but to his credit he did get better as the game wore on.

As for Schache, if you're getting 2 goals out of your second ruck and he brings the ball to ground in the F50 a few times and giving your first ruck a chop out, you can't ask much more of him (or anyone). Based on the last two weeks Khamis and Cordy are not getting near the second ruck spot for a while.

Agree with this.

Schache has to play every week. Until he has another of those games when I say "Schache can't play again" again.

[jeemak]

It matters less about who is rucking and more about what happens when the number #1 is resting. If you have enough height forward, even if you take one away to fulfil some ruck minutes, you’re left with enough support for your primary forward to create more leading lanes, more one on ones and more open space for your smalls to work in when the ball gets brought down. Bonus points for when those talls are actually decent.

The fact we stuck with just Cordy and then Khamis (when it was clear Cordy gave us nothing) to play beside Naughton as the sole forward/back up ruck when we had Marra and Schache both rotting away at Footscray is a black mark on the coaching group and will probably cost us a finals spot.

With additional genuine tall talent forward, is it any wonder we’ve scored more the last two weeks? That Naughton has had more opportunities? Or Cody got the wrong match up last week? Or West has had more space to play with?

Structure matters.

I guess the challenge is getting the balance between your forward line's ability to attack/ score versus its ability to defend right. Over the last two weeks we've kicked great scores but have also given away too many points and going taller might have something to do with that.

The game against the Pies we clearly got the balance right, kicked 99pts to 51pts and had Sweet, Cordy and Khamis in the side.

The sample either way isn't big enough to really know. However, it's a massive test over the coming weeks to see if the revised structure works both ways (offencively/ defencively) and we can limit scoring.

The slow start bullshit needs to stop, and the whole team needs to tighten if we are to limit scoring and win because I don't think we'll score as easily ourselves (but will be pleasantly surprised if we do). Like everything with us, it'll start and finish with our midfielders and whether they decide to be "on" from the word go.

[jeemak]

Sweet had a mare in the first quarter. I still have doubts about him but to his credit he did get better as the game wore on.

As for Schache, if you're getting 2 goals out of your second ruck and he brings the ball to ground in the F50 a few times and giving your first ruck a chop out, you can't ask much more of him (or anyone). Based on the last two weeks Khamis and Cordy are not getting near the second ruck spot for a while.

People had their doubts about his ability to play that role (and by people I mean Aza), and the jury is still out on whether he can improve his ability to impact the ruck. But like you said, if you're getting two goals a game from him then he should be playing.