Always Right Match Committee Round 22 v GWS Giants at Marvel on Saturday

[Scraggers]

Welcome to the Always Right Match Committee Thread. The Match Committee threads has been named after long time WOOF member Always Right who tragically passed away in March 2018.

If you were on the Western Bulldogs match committee what changes would you make after our Round 21 match against Fremantle for our Round 22 match against GWS at Marvel on Saturday arvo.

For those new to these threads, please give a brief explanation for your changes ... this would add a lot of value to the discussion.

[GVGjr]

Bump

[jeemak]

In - accountability and honest effort
Out - excuses and platitudes

I just want an honest effort for the next two games. That's all I want any game.

[DOG GOD]

In- footballers who are prepared to do whatever it takes to play a TEAM game.
Out- too many to mention.

[Dry Rot]

Should Schache replace Bruce?

[Grantysghost]

Should Schache replace Bruce?

Yes, but it won't happen.

[G-Mo77]

I thought Bruce did ok in the 2nd half. Seemed a lot more dangerous

[GVGjr]

Should Schache replace Bruce?

Surely you jest? :)

Should but very unlikely.

[G-Mo77]

Can we get Lobb in next week. His kicking was a thing of beauty!

[jeemak]

Bruce still has his timing issues but he has actually improved week on week which is what should happen when you're coming back from an ACL.

This season is cooked unless both Richmond and St Kilda lose this week and continue to do so (which is an iffy prospect). I think we just do what we can to get as much footy into him as possible and give him something to build upon over the preseason.

[Mantis]

We need to change up our wing positions.. Williams & McNeil were both woeful. Surely Hunter & McLean take their spots.

Playing Bruce goes against any credible selection integrity we have.. he is a loved character within the team, but he is miles off contributing in any meaningful way at present and his position within the team can’t be maintained.

[GVGjr]

I'm a big believer of picking your best team with form being the major decision make but there is always room for a role based player.

I think there might be Hunter and McLean coming in and if by some miracle Gardner is good to go but that's probably about it.

Not sure of the outs just yet but Cordy is in the mix and maybe Keath but

If

Dunkley and B.Smith haven't committed?

Then

Do they make way for McLean and Hunter?

Just trying to add a smile to Jee's dial

[azabob]

I'm a big believer of picking your best team with form being the major decision make but there is always room for a role based player.

I think there might be Hunter and McLean coming in and if by some miracle Gardner is good to go but that's probably about it.

Not sure of the outs just yet but Cordy is in the mix and maybe Keath but

If

Dunkley and B.Smith haven't committed?

Then

Do they make way for McLean and Hunter?

Just trying to add a smile to Jee's dial

Dunkley is committed on field.

I’m not exactly sure where Smith is at. He got his 30 touches but something just seems off.

[ReLoad]

Out:Bevo
In: Clarkson

Footy is a ruthless game, we need to show some. On paper parts of our list are generational and something to behold.right now it’s genuinely being wasted.

[GVGjr]

Dunkley is committed on field.

I’m not exactly sure where Smith is at. He got his 30 touches but something just seems off.

You should know it's tongue in cheek stuff and his last 2 weeks have been strong performances. I rate Dunks.
The question should be more around if we put the games into the likes of Cleary if the boys aren't making the right noises about being with us next year.

[Grantysghost]

You should know it's tongue in cheek and his last 2 weeks have been strong performances. I rate Dunks.
The question should be more around if we put the games into the likes of Cleary if the boys aren't making the right noises about being with us next year.

Do you think the mix in the midfield is right G?

Dunkley, Bont, Libba. Macrae are all very one paced.

We get burned when the opposition mids get the smallest break and it seems the seas just part.

Maybe it's our setup but I can't imagine we haven't worked on that.

Smith is the one probably who adds that but he's been off, and Treloar is keeping Duryea out of a spot because Charlie Cameron burned us in one game.

[GVGjr]

Do you think the mix in the midfield is right G?

Dunkley, Bont, Libba. Macrae are all very one paced.

We get burned when the opposition mids get the smallest break and it seems the seas just part.

Maybe it's our setup but I can't imagine we haven't worked on that.

Smith is the one probably who adds that but he's been off, and Treloar is keeping Duryea out of a spot because Charlie Cameron burned us in one game.

The quality is there perhaps just not the defensive mindset when it's required. I think Treloar belongs in the midfield because like Smith he is a POD when compared to Libba, Macrae, Bontempelli and Dunks.

[jeemak]

Out:Bevo
In: Clarkson

Footy is a ruthless game, we need to show some. On paper parts of our list are generational and something to behold.right now it’s genuinely being wasted.

We have structural/ personnel deficiencies but should replace the coach instead of improving the structural/ personnel deficiencies?

[jeemak]

Do you think the mix in the midfield is right G?

Dunkley, Bont, Libba. Macrae are all very one paced.

We get burned when the opposition mids get the smallest break and it seems the seas just part.

Maybe it's our setup but I can't imagine we haven't worked on that.

Smith is the one probably who adds that but he's been off, and Treloar is keeping Duryea out of a spot because Charlie Cameron burned us in one game.

Really? Doc is at a stage of his career where he needs a run to get back into it, and his form wasn't great when he was playing.

When he's ready to go he'll be playing.

[Grantysghost]

Really? Doc is at a stage of his career where he needs a run to get back into it, and his form wasn't great when he was playing.

When he's ready to go he'll be playing.

He's had two weeks in the twos?

[jeemak]

He's had two weeks in the twos?

Then he might be ready to go......

[Happy Days]

In: Hunter, Duryea, Schache

Out: Bruce, Williams, Garcia

This is, without any doubt, Schache's absolute last chance to make it as an AFL player.

[GVGjr]

He's had two weeks in the twos?

Went off today after a strong performance in the first half. Same with Khamis.

[jeemak]

In: Hunter, Duryea, Schache

Out: Bruce, Williams, Garcia

This is, without any doubt, Schache's absolute last chance to make it as an AFL player.

Bruce was better tonight and hit the scoreboard a couple of times. I reckon he's going to stay in much to the chagrin of many.

Schache won't get rewarded for a dominant game against poor opposition, much to the chagrin of many.

[Mantis]

Bruce was better tonight and hit the scoreboard a couple of times. I reckon he's going to stay in much to the chagrin of many.

Schache won't get rewarded for a dominant game against poor opposition, much to the chagrin of many.

So Bruce goes from scores of 1/10 from his 1st 3 games back to a 2/10 and it’s better? Well I guess it is hey.

He can’t separate from his opponent and his field kicking was extremely poor… but he wasn’t alone there.

[Grantysghost]

Bruce was better tonight and hit the scoreboard a couple of times. I reckon he's going to stay in much to the chagrin of many.

Schache won't get rewarded for a dominant game against poor opposition, much to the chagrin of many.

Urgh you’re probably right and he looked marginally better but he’s definitely lost a bit aerially.

Struggles to get height. Whether that’s timing or the knee no idea.

[ReLoad]

We have structural/ personnel deficiencies but should replace the coach instead of improving the structural/ personnel deficiencies?

I think that’s exactly what someone like clarko will do, fresh ideas, and a different way of operating. (Which includes personnel)

[Grantysghost]

I think that’s exactly what someone like clarko will do, fresh ideas, and a different way of operating. (Which includes personnel)
To me the question is do we have an average unbalanced list with an amazing coach that pushes them above their capability, or an average coach holding back a super list.

if I really think about it, I can only conclude the former.

We have some generational talent, but the fringe is murky and our defence is held together with gaffer tape! I’m even starting to doubt our mids.

I can’t entertain moving on Bevo.

[jeemak]

I think that’s exactly what someone like clarko will do, fresh ideas, and a different way of operating. (Which includes personnel)

Fair enough.

Noting however, if we bring in Clarko he'll bring his own team en masse and it will mean it's two years in a row with massive coaching upheaval. So with that in mind we need to be prepared for a massive shake up that could result in a step backwards.

[jeemak]

To me the question is do we have an average unbalanced list with an amazing coach that pushes them above their capability, or an average coach holding back a super list.

if I really think about it, I can only conclude the former.

We have some generational talent, but the fringe is murky and our defence is held together with gaffer tape! I’m even starting to doubt our mids.

I can’t entertain moving on Bevo.

It's hard because we don't know what we don't know, and you can never get a handle on whether our midfield is so good and well coached that they carry the rest of the list, or good but just coached reasonably and sometimes carrying the rest of the team.

There is no doubt we have structural issues that hold us back in both key defenders and genuinely talented and hard mid-sized role players across the ground.

[ReLoad]

To me the question is do we have an average unbalanced list with an amazing coach that pushes them above their capability, or an average coach holding back a super list.

if I really think about it, I can only conclude the former.

We have some generational talent, but the fringe is murky and our defence is held together with gaffer tape! I’m even starting to doubt our mids.

I can’t entertain moving on Bevo.

Your logic in the questions you’re asking is very sound. The issue is the coach is the person who has chosen that path of fringe players. Playing certain players more often than not had been mind boggling and outright stubborn in the face of form etc.

It’s certainly not 100% on the hands of Bevo, but it’s bloody close.

I love Bevo for what he’s done and the quality human being he is, but he will be the first to admit embracing change is a great enabler in unlocking potential.

[ReLoad]

Fair enough.

Noting however, if we bring in Clarko he'll bring his own team en masse and it will mean it's two years in a row with massive coaching upheaval. So with that in mind we need to be prepared for a massive shake up that could result in a step backwards.

Yes it most certainly could, but the opposite could happen too. Look at Voss and McRae.

[jeemak]

Yes it most certainly could, but the opposite could happen too. Look at Voss and McRae.

Let's just see how things go in September before we start using Carlton and Collingwood as examples of what we should do.

We made a GF last year under ridiculous pressure, and were leading it half way into the third. Our year this year has been shit, but there's genuine reasons for that and for mine it's not quite time to throw the baby out with the bath water just yet.

But if you think calling on a Messiah coach rather than sticking with a Messiah coach is the right thing to do I don't think I will change your mind.

[MrMahatma]

Out: Webb: I don’t care about the stats cause they’re all quant. Our centre square is a joke. Our clearances are quick dump kicks over the shoulder while the oppo get them out the front to hit up leads. We’ve lost so much momentum in matches again and again by giving up cheap goals from centre clearance. I doubt we’re sacking English, Bont, Libba and Macrae so Webb needs to go.
Also out: Bruce. Love his passion for the team etc but even he knows he doesn’t deserve to be out there at the moment. It’s embarrassing for all concerned.
McNeil: Not sure what he offers and him, West, Garcia, Cody = 1 too many low possession small fwds.

In: Schache. If Bruce had the touches he had when in seniors, Bevo would prob give him the B&F.
Mclean: Always has a crack. Versatile and skilled player.

[MrMahatma]

To me the question is do we have an average unbalanced list with an amazing coach that pushes them above their capability, or an average coach holding back a super list.

if I really think about it, I can only conclude the former.

We have some generational talent, but the fringe is murky and our defence is held together with gaffer tape! I’m even starting to doubt our mids.

I can’t entertain moving on Bevo.

So who is accountable for the state of the list?

[jeemak]

Out: Webb: I don’t care about the stats cause they’re all quant. Our centre square is a joke. Our clearances are quick dump kicks over the shoulder while the oppo get them out the front to hit up leads. We’ve lost so much momentum in matches again and again by giving up cheap goals from centre clearance. I doubt we’re sacking English, Bont, Libba and Macrae so Webb needs to go.
Also out: Bruce. Love his passion for the team etc but even he knows he doesn’t deserve to be out there at the moment. It’s embarrassing for all concerned.
McNeil: Not sure what he offers and him, West, Garcia, Cody = 1 too many low possession small fwds.

In: Schache. If Bruce had the touches he had when in seniors, Bevo would prob give him the B&F.
Mclean: Always has a crack. Versatile and skilled player.

Interesting call on Webb. Came in late and picked up a midfield that is exhibiting the exact same traits it has over time. It might just be that he knows what he is talking about, like the last guy, but our midfield does and doesn't do what it should when it does and doesn't want to like it always has.

[jeemak]

So who is accountable for the state of the list?

Chris Grant, ultimately.

He's the head of footy and needs to make sure the coaching and list management teams are aligned.

[MrMahatma]

Interesting call on Webb. Came in late and picked up a midfield that is exhibiting the exact same traits it has over time. It might just be that he knows what he is talking about, like the last guy, but our midfield does and doesn't do what it should when it does and doesn't want to like it always has.

Or maybe it’s his job to get them to do what they need to?

Or maybe we sack Bont, Macrae, Libba and English?

Cause next season will 100% end in disappointment if nothing drastic changes.

[MrMahatma]

Chris Grant, ultimately.

He's the head of footy and needs to make sure the coaching and list management teams are aligned.

Are they aligned? And if not, what should Grant do about it? Could he employ someone whose role it is to manage the list?

[bornadog]

Are they aligned? And if not, what should Grant do about it? Could he employ someone whose role it is to manage the list?

Sam Power is list manager and doing a very good job.

[Grantysghost]

So who is accountable for the state of the list?

Grant, Power, Milesi ultimately. I expect Bevo has a say.

[MrMahatma]

Sam Power is list manager and doing a very good job.

How is it determined he’s doing a good job?

(I obviously know Power is list manager, I’m just curious as to why every time problems with our list are brought up, Power is pretty much the last guy mentioned as having accountability).

[G-Mo77]

Pack it up now. Just rest the guys with niggles, bring in some who will play bigger roles in 2023 and others to build up trade value. What a disastrous season.

[GVGjr]

Did Bevo go as close as he could in endorsing Schache for a recall? If so at who's expense?

[Grantysghost]

Did Bevo go as close as he could in endorsing Schache for a recall? If so at who's expense?

I thought so.

Bruce.

[GVGjr]

Pack it up now. Just rest the guys with niggles, bring in some who will play bigger roles in 2023 and others to build up trade value. What a disastrous season.

Hardly worth doing that in my opinion. If there is one or two we've wanted to have another look at then now is the time but we need to finish the season strongly for a few reasons.

[bornadog]

There are not many that can come in and plug holes.

I think Hunter and McClean will come in, and maybe even JJ. Not sure Gardner's issue will be resolved, but I would drop Keath for Gardner.

Out: McNeil, Garcia

Not much else will change.

[westbulldog]

Out Cordy Bruce Williams, Vandermeer
In Cleary, Sweet, Khamis, McLean

[azabob]

Did Bevo go as close as he could in endorsing Schache for a recall? If so at who's expense?

Funnily enough I heard that and thought, yeah Schache isn’t playing against GWS.

[bornadog]

Funnily enough I heard that and thought, yeah Schache isn’t playing against GWS.

Let's face it Coburg are rubbish, so not much competition.

[G-Mo77]

Hardly worth doing that in my opinion. If there is one or two we've wanted to have another look at then now is the time but we need to finish the season strongly for a few reasons.

For me personally, I only really care about a win against that Orange Team next week. I doubt I'll even watch the final round. By the looks of some of our players last night, they've checked out as well

[Bullies]

Urgh you’re probably right and he looked marginally better but he’s definitely lost a bit aerially.

Struggles to get height. Whether that’s timing or the knee no idea. He could be a loose man on the forward line and he would still struggle. He looks so far of it. People looking for positives from his goal. He should have been playing 2's until he is ready and confident.

[Bullies]

Chris Grant, ultimately.

He's the head of footy and needs to make sure the coaching and list management teams are aligned.We need someone like a David Noble who is the best in the business and accountable for the Football Dept.

[Bulldog4life]

Funnily enough I heard that and thought, yeah Schache isn’t playing against GWS.

Ditto. Mentioned something about Coburg being not much chop.

[chef]

Schache has had a fork stuck in him, he won't play for us again.

[hujsh]

Schache has had a fork stuck in him, he won't play for us again.

Strange when his last omission was due to covid and he didn't seem to have a typical Schache bad game.

[westbulldog]

What are the odds given our form against Freo, but....IF we beat GWS (at Marvel) AND Hawthorn (in our Tasmania graveyard), IF St Kilda lose at least 1 to Brisbane and Sydney (both at Marvel) (our % is currently 6.8 better than StKilda) and IF Carlton lose to both Melbourne and Collingwood (both at the G)(their % is currently 1.7 above ours), then we MIGHT make the 8. But would we just be making up the numbers ?

[DOG GOD]

What are the odds given our form against Freo, but....IF we beat GWS (at Marvel) AND Hawthorn (in our Tasmania graveyard), IF St Kilda lose at least 1 to Brisbane and Sydney (both at Marvel) (our % is currently 6.8 better than StKilda) and IF Carlton lose to both Melbourne and Collingwood (both at the G)(their % is currently 1.7 above ours), then we MIGHT make the 8. But would we just be making up the numbers ?

Well, we don’t deserve to make the 8, and we would certainly be making up the numbers.
I did a quick ladder predictor, and if we did make it we would possibly play either Melb, or Bris (Gabba) in the elimination.

[bornadog]

Well, we don’t deserve to make the 8, and we would certainly be making up the numbers.
I did a quick ladder predictor, and if we did make it we would possibly play either Melb, or Bris (Gabba) in the elimination.

Why wouldn't we deserve it? You win the required games and you are in?

[DOG GOD]

Why wouldn't we deserve it? You win the required games and you are in?

I understand what you’re saying, but imo we don’t deserve it. We have struggled against the rest of the 8 other than the odd game. So, we might deserve our spot based on the games won, but we would be making up the numbers. Our system is broken.

[Grantysghost]

Well, we don’t deserve to make the 8, and we would certainly be making up the numbers.
I did a quick ladder predictor, and if we did make it we would possibly play either Melb, or Bris (Gabba) in the elimination.

The Lions are our bunnies DG !

On current form, we will struggle to win the last two games.

[Danjul]

Let's face it Coburg are rubbish, so not much competition.
Let’s face it, Bruce’s five possessions in two weeks were memorable (for all the wrong reasons), and the way he followed it up by being a liability against Geelong will haunt us for years.

But getting his only goal for the season so far, in his first fourth game for the year, was a thing of beauty. He must be locked in for the next 10 years. No one else can generate those emotions.

It will also give time for him to polish his ruck work.

[hujsh]

Why wouldn't we deserve it? You win the required games and you are in?

We've not played consistently good football all year. More weeks than not it's been the GF on repeat with lapses in concentration/effort/discipline leading us to give up our lead or give the opposition a big lead. We've just been poor too consistently to expect a sudden change for finals. It'd be more 2019 than 2021

[GVGjr]

Why wouldn't we deserve it? You win the required games and you are in?

I guess some years there are 2 or 3 teams with genuine finals claims and are playing good football at the business end of the season.
Despite our encouraging win against Melbourne we have since fallen short against 2 good teams. At best we could limp into the finals.
We would have to be very impressive in the last 2 weeks to consider ourselves as deserved finalists.

[MrMahatma]

I guess some years there are 3 or 4 teams with genuine finals claims and are playing good football at the business end of the season.
Despite our encouraging win against Melbourne we have since fallen short against 2 good teams. At best we could limp into the finals.
We would have to be very impressive in the last 2 weeks to consider ourselves as deserved finalists.

Whoever out of us, Saints, Blues make it, won’t make week 2. I’d rather we do make it for experience sake. Not sure falling into finals and getting pumped in week 1 papers over any cracks.

[GVGjr]

Whoever out of us, Saints, Blues make it, won’t make week 2. I’d rather we do make it for experience sake. Not sure falling into finals and getting pumped in week 1 papers over any cracks.

Playing a game in the finals isn't a bad experience for the players so while it's an still an outside chance it might be a small salvage from the season. I'd also hope that it's not regarded as an acceptable or successful season if we were to limp into the finals and go out in week one.

[Happy Days]

I personally would prefer to make finals but I might be watching the games wrong again.

[GVGjr]

I personally would prefer to make finals but I might be watching the games wrong again.

Definitely would be a preference to make the finals.

[jeemak]

I personally would prefer to make finals but I might be watching the games wrong again.

I want to make a disappointing season better by making it worse and missing the finals.

[Scorlibo]

There is one scenario which could salvage the season. We make finals and finish 8th, while Melbourne splits their last two to finish 5th. We exorcise our 2021 Demons to knock them out in an Elimination Final. That would be something to hang our hats on.

[bornadog]

I understand what you’re saying, but imo we don’t deserve it. We have struggled against the rest of the 8 other than the odd game. So, we might deserve our spot based on the games won, but we would be making up the numbers. Our system is broken.


We've not played consistently good football all year. More weeks than not it's been the GF on repeat with lapses in concentration/effort/discipline leading us to give up our lead or give the opposition a big lead. We've just been poor too consistently to expect a sudden change for finals. It'd be more 2019 than 2021


I guess some years there are 2 or 3 teams with genuine finals claims and are playing good football at the business end of the season.
Despite our encouraging win against Melbourne we have since fallen short against 2 good teams. At best we could limp into the finals.
We would have to be very impressive in the last 2 weeks to consider ourselves as deserved finalists.

You make the 8 by being the team with enough wins to make it - so you deserve it.

Whether you are good enough to go the next step is another matter all together.

[soupman]

100% should be hoping we make finals. I mean to do so would mean two good wins in our last two games, a team like Carlton capitulating and the hand wringing that would bring, then a final that we supporters can go to with our team in form knowing that for some reason when this team actually wants to it can beat virtually anybody (not Geelong obviously).

I mean all of that sounds much more fun than not making the finals for silly "maybe it'll force them into the change of approach we've needed to do for years and definitely won't do in this scenario anyway" reasons.

[hujsh]

Make no mistake we should still be doing everything we can to make finals. I'm just not expecting anything from us if we do.

[bornadog]

100% should be hoping we make finals. I mean to do so would mean two good wins in our last two games, a team like Carlton capitulating and the hand wringing that would bring, then a final that we supporters can go to with our team in form knowing that for some reason when this team actually wants to it can beat virtually anybody (not Geelong obviously).

I mean all of that sounds much more fun than not making the finals for silly "maybe it'll force them into the change of approach we've needed to do for years and definitely won't do in this scenario anyway" reasons.

Would be nice to also deny Carlton a place in the finals.

[Grantysghost]

You make the 8 by being the team with enough wins to make it - so you deserve it.

Whether you are good enough to go the next step is another matter all together.

I never get the idea someone deserved something in a sporting sense. It's a competition you earn it or you don't.

With the draw the way it's setup you could argue we deserve it having played a draw devised for second spot.

[bornadog]

I never get the idea someone deserved something in a sporting sense. It's a competition you earn it or you don't.

With the draw the way it's setup you could argue we deserve it having played a draw devised for second spot.

You are getting my point ie the definition of deserve - which I don't like either in a sporting sense.

[chef]

Strange when his last omission was due to covid and he didn't seem to have a typical Schache bad game.

Agree, but I think bevo picking a cooked Bruce in front of him says it all.

[MrMahatma]

Agree, but I think bevo picking a cooked Bruce in front of him says it all.

Reckon Schache could go somewhere else and get a few more years? Roos? GC? GWS? Heck... I reckon he'd look OK in Freo's fwd line.

[chef]

Reckon Schache could go somewhere else and get a few more years? Roos? GC? GWS? Heck... I reckon he'd look OK in Freo's fwd line.

As Young is showing at the Blues I'm sure he could eek out a bit more of a career elsewhere

[Mantis]

Reckon Schache could go somewhere else and get a few more years? Roos? GC? GWS? Heck... I reckon he'd look OK in Freo's fwd line.

It depends what your KPI's are for Josh's role, but I could see him easily kicking 35-40 goals in a full season.

[josie]

So can I and it galls me. Why didn’t we nurture him after his very good performance against Alir Alir in PF last year?

[Mantis]

So can I and it galls me. Why didn’t we nurture him after his very good performance against Alir Alir in PF last year?

Because Bevo doesn't back-in players who lack a hard edge.

He can put up with lots of other poor traits, like not being able to kick or run... but he doesn't tolerate players with a flaky intensity.

[bornadog]

Because Bevo doesn't back-in players who lack a hard edge.

He can put up with lots of other poor traits, like not being able to kick or run... but he doesn't tolerate players with a flaky intensity.

and therein lies the problem with Schache. We have commented a number of times on this forum about his intensity and nothing has changed as he has matured.

If he is willing to stay and be second fiddle, then I would keep him just in case of injuries.

[josie]

I think Schache has shown improved intensity. When rucking in vfl and if I recall at afl with few games he has played this year I thought his 2nd efforts at ground level pretty good. He needs to show more on top of that. Hoping he is recalled and shows he really wants to succeed. I still think the MC have been harsh considering shocking skills of some of the players being given games for quite a few seasons now.

[Bulldog4life]

Would be nice to also deny Carlton a place in the finals.

Good possibility we play Freo if we make it over in WA.

[Danjul]

Agree, but I think bevo picking a cooked Bruce in front of him says it all.
In 2018 and 2019 Schache had something like 40 goals in 25 games. He seemed to be struggling to get selected even then. Only goal less in a few. Big contribution when the team was struggling.

Then Bruce came in with a reputation (justified) and Schache was banished. The fact that Bruce contributed next to nothing in 2020 and was bordering on incompetent at times should have shown Schache that it was time to go. I don’t know why he stayed.

[The Doctor]

My team

B: Daniel, Gardner, Duryea
HB: Richards, Darcy, Dale
C: McLean, Libba, Bedendo
HF: Dunkley, Jamarra, West
F: English, Naughton, Weightman
R: Martin, Bont, Smith
INT: Treloar, Macrae, Garcia, Khamis

EMG: Schache, Cordy, McNeil, Cleary

[GVGjr]

Doc, Khamis misses a week with concussion, Not sure if Duryea is right either.

[azabob]

Doc, Khamis misses a week with concussion, Not sure if Duryea is right either.

Gardner no certainty to play either.

[bornadog]

Toby Greene out for rest of season

[Axe Man]

Toby Greene out for rest of season

How sad. At least he can't kick another 7 against us this time.

[GVGjr]

Toby Greene out for rest of season

That works out OK for us. It was Greene not their taller forwards that dominated last time we played them.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Fate.

[Mofra]

Urgh you’re probably right and he looked marginally better but he’s definitely lost a bit aerially.

Struggles to get height. Whether that’s timing or the knee no idea.
A player struggling to adjust back into the game? Not unexpected. I actually don't think Bruce will get back to anywhere near his best,
We're about to give Jones 3 years...

[Grantysghost]

A player struggling to adjust back into the game? Not unexpected. I actually don't think Bruce will get back to anywhere near his best,
We're about to give Jones 3 years...

Yikes. I can't believe its not 1 with a trigger for 2.

Surely we are in the stronger negotiating position.

[Mantis]

A player struggling to adjust back into the game? Not unexpected. I actually don't think Bruce will get back to anywhere near his best,
We're about to give Jones 3 years...

The circumstances are a little different though.

[Grantysghost]

Schache, Hunter, Martin and McComb have to be in the mix.

I would like to see :

IN : Hunter, Schache, McLean, Gardner (if fit)
OUT : Williams, Bruce, West, Darcy

Hunter is a massive upgrade over Williams atm.
Bruce can't jump just play him in twos until next season. Schache forward/ruck.
McLean has been ready for a few weeks and I think West is tapering off probably just the rigours of senior footy.
Gardner is a no brainer.

JJ maybe as sub if fit.

[Scraggers]

Schache, Hunter, Martin and McComb have to be in the mix.

I would like to see :
I t
IN : Hunter, Schache, McLean, Gardner (if fit)
OUT : Williams, Bruce, West, Darcy

Hunter is a massive upgrade over Williams atm.
Bruce can't jump just play him in twos until next season. Schache forward/ruck.
McLean has been ready for a few weeks and I think West is tapering off probably just the rigours of senior footy.
Gardner is a no brainer.

JJ maybe as sub if fit.

Whilst I don't disagree with you, I like West's toughness in and around the contest. I wouldn't be unhappy if he played out the season.

[Jeanette54]

Whilst I don't disagree with you, I like West's toughness in and around the contest. I wouldn't be unhappy if he played out the season.

I totally agree, West should be a walk up start for this season. I love his toughness, particularly against GWS.

[azabob]

ROUND 22 TEAM
Western Bulldogs v GWS Giants
Saturday 13 August, 1.45pm AEST
Marvel Stadium

B: Ed Richards, Ryan Gardner, Zaine Cordy
HB: Caleb Daniel, Sam Darcy, Bailey Dale
C: Jack Macrae, Tom Liberatore, Bailey Smith
HF: Rhylee West, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, Josh Dunkley
F: Cody Weightman, Aaron Naughton, Laith Vandermeer
R: Tim English, Marcus Bontempelli, Adam Treloar
Int: Lachie Hunter, Stefan Martin, Lachlan McNeil, Bailey Williams
Emer: Josh Schache, Riley Garcia, Roarke Smith, Alex Keath

In: Stefan Martin, Ryan Gardner, Lachie Hunter
Out: Josh Bruce (managed), Alex Keath (omitted), Riley Garcia (omitted), Toby McLean (medi-sub)

[azabob]

Oh boy. Martin ahead of Schache

[bornadog]

Oh boy. Martin ahead of Schache
Goodbye Schache nice knowing you

[Grantysghost]

Keath again wow he might be baked.

So Martin is forward second ruck. My word. I mean he was playing very well so no problem with it.

Schache can't do much more though.

Bruce out will make many happy. See it does happen xD

[whythelongface]

I suppose Martin deserves a farewell game in front of a home crowd

[azabob]

Goodbye Schache nice knowing you

McLean also under pressure to keep his spot on the list by the looks of it.

[GVGjr]

Oh boy. Martin ahead of Schache

While I don't quite get Martin coming in it is at least off the back of a very good performance.
Schache performance was obviously devalued considering the quality of the opposition.

[GVGjr]

Keath again wow he might be baked.

So Martin is forward second ruck. My word. I mean he was playing very well so no problem with it.

Schache can't do much more though.

Bruce out will make many happy. See it does happen xD

Managed not omitted. It hasn't happened yet.

[Axe Man]

Good to see Pruess out so he can't maim anyone.

Surely Tim is going to have to suck it up and play a significant amount of game time forward.

[1eyedog]

Surely Martin rucks and English forward? Steph has very hard hands.

[ReLoad]

I’m perplexed, just plain perplexed….

Our match committee is way, way, out there!

[azabob]

While I don't quite get Martin coming in it is at least off the back of a very good performance.
Schache performance was obviously devalued considering the quality of the opposition.

Not sure; both performances were against the same opposition.

[Mofra]

Managed not omitted. It hasn't happened yet.
Yeah, I wasn't dumped it's a "trial separation"
Stef over Sweet and Schache is an eye opener.

[azabob]

I’m perplexed, just plain perplexed….

Our match committee is way, way, out there!

How many people needed to make a committee?

[Scraggers]

I am hoping that Martin announces his retirement in the next 48 hours and this will be his last game. I am perplexed (like most) that he gets a game ahead of Schache :confused:

[GVGjr]

Yeah, I wasn't dumped it's a "trial separation"
Stef over Sweet and Schache is an eye opener.

Getting Bruce ready for the finals.

Whilst selection integrity has been a challenge for us this year if we have really put a line through Schache for next season I guess it's fair enough.

[Grantysghost]

Managed not omitted. It hasn't happened yet.

Managed is the nice way of saying "you weren't ready".

[Happy Days]

It admittedly pops the eye but Martin was great in the VFL. I would’ve picked Schache too but it’s not a disaster or anything. It might have been to combat Preuss in the ruck who’s not playing, so we might even see a late change there.

Assuming we play as named though - surely means more of Tim forward right?

[Grantysghost]

Good to see Pruess out so he can't maim anyone.

Surely Tim is going to have to suck it up and play a significant amount of game time forward.

Hmm, I can't see them doing this at this point of the season?

Seriously if they only think Tim in the guts is an issue against whatever the hell GWS throw in there after the season is pretty much cooked, I'd be really bloody surprised.

[bornadog]

It admittedly pops the eye but Martin was great in the VFL. I would’ve picked Schache too but it’s not a disaster or anything. It might have been to combat Preuss in the ruck who’s not playing, so we might even see a late change there.

Assuming we play as named though - surely means more of Tim forward right?

Martin has had two very good games in the VFL.

[ratsmac]

So Schache must have to kick 10 to get back in!

Stef Martin in is a real head scratcher. Surely it was to play on Pruess as Happy Days suggests and nothing more because he has looked cooked at the top level all year. He even looked cooked in the practice matches where his body should be fit and fresh.

I'm happy to see Hunter and McLean back in. Hunter can be frustrating but he is our most natural wingman we have. McLean is a good pressure player which is something we have lacked of late.

[Axe Man]

Hmm, I can't see them doing this at this point of the season?

Seriously if they only think Tim in the guts is an issue against whatever the hell GWS throw in there after the season is pretty much cooked, I'd be really bloody surprised.

The alternative is Stef playing mostly forward, relieving English in the ruck. Surely that isn't the plan?

The Stef ruck with English forward model did work early last year when Martin was fit. Not what I was expecting but with Bruce not improving fast enough I don't hate the idea of giving it a go.

[Axe Man]

I'm happy to see Hunter and McLean back in. Hunter can be frustrating but he is our most natural wingman we have. McLean is a good pressure player which is something we have lacked of late.

McLean is out of the 26 altogether.

[G-Mo77]

McLean is out of the 26 altogether.

He was terrible last week. Didn't even get a touch.

[G-Mo77]

Not sure how this in going to work. Martin really can't so much outsidenof playing ruck so I guess Tim plays more as a forward and Stef gets the lionshare in the middle. Wonder if it'll happen that way

[azabob]

Garcia dropped also disappointing.

[Grantysghost]

Garcia dropped also disappointing.

Wonder how close Williams was? He was very ordinary last week.

[josie]

Wonder how close Williams was? He was very ordinary last week.

I thought Cordy was shocking too - always 5 to 10m behind the forward he was on. Always a bullgod but just don’t think he should be in best 22. I know Coburg are struggling but cannot understand why Schache does not get a call up. If he ends up playing well at another club I’ll be an unhappy supporter.

[josie]

Preuss out is a plus. Who will ruck for GWS?

[Grantysghost]

I thought Cordy was shocking too - always 5 to 10m behind the forward he was on. Always a bullgod but just don’t think he should be in best 22. I know Coburg are struggling but cannot understand why Schache does not get a call up. If he ends up playing well at another club I’ll be an unhappy supporter.

It appears he's come to the end of the road with us.

[azabob]

I thought Cordy was shocking too - always 5 to 10m behind the forward he was on. Always a bullgod but just don’t think he should be in best 22. I know Coburg are struggling but cannot understand why Schache does not get a call up. If he ends up playing well at another club I’ll be an unhappy supporter.

I think you are being harsh on Cordy. Fremantle basically waltzed through the our players. A lot of room was also left open for Lobb to lead into.

[ratsmac]

McLean is out of the 26 altogether.

My bad, for some reason I thought I saw him as an in

[GVGjr]

Hmm, I can't see them doing this at this point of the season?

Seriously if they only think Tim in the guts is an issue against whatever the hell GWS throw in there after the season is pretty much cooked, I'd be really bloody surprised.

Alternate view but it's exactly what I expect them to do.

"Tim we still have a chance to play in the finals and we need to freshen you up before that. Steph will played 60% of the game in the ruck and we need to find out if he has the run in him in case you miss a final"

[kruder]

Will we finally see Tim play more forward?

Where to next with Keath? Has he played his last game at the Kennel?

I'm glad hunter is back even if you are going to trade him no point playing him in the VFL. He is definitely best 22.

[GVGjr]

Will we finally see Tim play more forward?

Where to next with Keath? Has he played his last game at the Kennel?

I'm glad hunter is back even if you are going to trade him no point playing him in the VFL. He is definitely best 22.

It's interesting that of all the discussion with the ins and outs Hunter's inclusion isn't making a stronger headline.

[bornadog]

Garcia dropped also disappointing.

It was either Garcia, West or McNeil. I think we needed someone on the wing, so Hunter comes in

[Scorlibo]

It admittedly pops the eye but Martin was great in the VFL. I would’ve picked Schache too but it’s not a disaster or anything. It might have been to combat Preuss in the ruck who’s not playing, so we might even see a late change there.

Assuming we play as named though - surely means more of Tim forward right?

Agreed most likely to combat GWS's two genuine rucks in Preuss and Briggs, personally I was expecting Martin to come in because neither Bruce nor Schache was going to cut it against those two giant Giants. Preuss out makes the late change (Martin for Schache) a real possibility.

Awesome to see Lachie Hunter back in the side. Of all the diagnoses passed around the forum these last couple of weeks, there hasn't been much chat about our wings, and it's a position where we've struggled for much of the year - in no small part because we're missing our club champion wingman.

Would prefer to have seen McNeil, West or even Williams omitted ahead of Garcia, but doubt it will be the difference between winning and losing.

Thought Keath played a touch better than Cordy against Fremantle. The MC must think Cordy has a better match up, perhaps Hogan.

[Grantysghost]

It's interesting that of all the discussion with the ins and outs Hunter's inclusion isn't making a stronger headline.

I have to say G I was pretty confident he would be back this week after watching the twos. He had that intensity back I'm used to seeing from him.

I'm more surprised it appears Garcia made way for him, thought Williams would be the likely move. Not sure what that means in terms of positioning?

I'll be very interested to see how we lineup on the wings, I thought Garcia played mainly forward. (80 percent possession in forward half)

[MrMahatma]

Playing 2 rucks. I’m happy with that. Not sure how it plays out but expecting English to be more fwd.
Go get ‘em Stef!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The MC decisions continue to stagger me.

- Hunter in. So.... Why didn't he play last week? Figured maybe his cards were stamped, but to then come in this week? Weird. We've rathered the likes of Williams, McNeil and McComb in recent times on the wing. All 3 are not a scratch on Lachie, even when the latter isn't or hasn't been at his best. Really odd.

- McNeil played OK from a pressure perspective vs Melbourne. Then gets dropped. Doesn't play a game, then gets picked vs Fremantle. So, that's basically the MC admitting a mistake. Meanwhile, McLean goes from the medi sub to... Nothing? I'm not sure I understand the logic. We have a wave of under performing players, I'm quite surprised McLean still finds himself on the outer. He might not be the same player after the knees so I wonder if he could be a delisting, but then again....why medi sub to oblivion?

- Schache must be done. Still, he was in OK form prior to COVID and hasn't had a look in since despite seemingly good form. Kicks 7, and yes it is against sub standard opposition, but we've played an underwhelming Bruce and now we pick a retiring Martin?

- Martin. This might be the most baffling of all. Why would you bother at this point? I genuinely don't care how good his form has been. He's 40, he's done, he isn't the future, he isn't the now, we aren't playing finals (we don't deserve to), we've refused to play two rucks the whole season..... WHY would you select him in a game Tim is playing in? If I am Sweet, I'm putting in a trade request and going on holiday tomorrow. Regardless of what you think of Sweet, how can we pick Martin with ANY logic? If I see him playing forward for one minute I'll turn the TV off.

- This has to add credibility to the rumours of Keath retiring. It's been a massive fall from grace, as big as I have ever seen in less than 12 months.

[hujsh]

The MC decisions continue to stagger me.

- Hunter in. So.... Why didn't he play last week? Figured maybe his cards were stamped, but to then come in this week? Weird. We've rathered the likes of Williams, McNeil and McComb in recent times on the wing. All 3 are not a scratch on Lachie, even when the latter isn't or hasn't been at his best. Really odd.

- McNeil played OK from a pressure perspective vs Melbourne. Then gets dropped. Doesn't play a game, then gets picked vs Fremantle. So, that's basically the MC admitting a mistake. Meanwhile, McLean goes from the medi sub to... Nothing? I'm not sure I understand the logic. We have a wave of under performing players, I'm quite surprised McLean still finds himself on the outer. He might not be the same player after the knees so I wonder if he could be a delisting, but then again....why medi sub to oblivion?

- Schache must be done. Still, he was in OK form prior to COVID and hasn't had a look in since despite seemingly good form. Kicks 7, and yes it is against sub standard opposition, but we've played an underwhelming Bruce and now we pick a retiring Martin?

- Martin. This might be the most baffling of all. Why would you bother at this point? I genuinely don't care how good his form has been. He's 40, he's done, he isn't the future, he isn't the now, we aren't playing finals (we don't deserve to), we've refused to play two rucks the whole season..... WHY would you select him in a game Tim is playing in? If I am Sweet, I'm putting in a trade request and going on holiday tomorrow. Regardless of what you think of Sweet, how can we pick Martin with ANY logic? If I see him playing forward for one minute I'll turn the TV off.

- This has to add credibility to the rumours of Keath retiring. It's been a massive fall from grace, as big as I have ever seen in less than 12 months.

I don't think that one is that puzzling. Unless someone else was to be dropped (would have to be McNeil I guess) he didn't get any game time to press for selection.

[azabob]

It was either Garcia, West or McNeil. I think we needed someone on the wing, so Hunter comes in

So should either McNeil or Williams be dropped who were playing on the wing?

Hang on, VDM is now ahead of Garcia?

[bornadog]

So should either McNeil or Williams be dropped who were playing on the wing?

Hang on, VDM is now ahead of Garcia?

I prefer Garcia to VDM at this stage

[Grantysghost]

So should either McNeil or Williams be dropped who were playing on the wing?

Hang on, VDM is now ahead of Garcia?

First time in recorded history (the last month since I've been looking) that someone has had more than 20 pressure acts and been dropped. (Garcia 21)

Wouldn't happen to Libba. Some pressure acts are clearly more valuable than others.

BAD?

[azabob]

I prefer Garcia to VDM at this stage

I think most people do bar a few on the MC.

VDM staying in has been lost in the Martin/Hunter/Keath discussions.

[Happy Days]

I don’t really have a problem with Garcia being dropped. His disposal was pretty brutal last weekend which is a lot to overcome when you only get it 13 times. Plus based on the emergencies he will almost certainly be the sub.

[Bullies]

I think most people do bar a few on the MC.

VDM staying in has been lost in the Martin/Hunter/Keath discussions. Agree with VDM. Have no idea what he offers.

[Axe Man]

I guess one reason for VDM remaining is you don't bring a guy back from a really long break out of the team to instantly drop him unless he is awful or not doing what he's instructed to do.

They may also be trying to look after Garcia a little bit after 5 games in a row given his injury history.

[GVGjr]

I guess one reason for VDM remaining is you don't bring a guy back from a really long break out of the team to instantly drop him unless he is awful or not doing what he's instructed to do.

They may also be trying to look after Garcia a little bit after 5 games in a row given his injury history.

Good point. I think we can all see some value in Garcia but it's not like he has really made the spot in the seniors his own.

[Axe Man]

Beveridge: We had to bring Stef in (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1195323/beveridge-we-had-to-bring-stef-in?fbclid=IwAR2dZOeXS1rAlc3cIIuh2FWdDMIqCb5It0g8eWjLDdwQICoQ 3Rl6RBmja84)

Senior coach Luke Beveridge says the inclusion of Stef Martin this weekend will allow his side to trial a dual-ruck attack.

Martin has not played at senior level since round eight, dealing with some injury concerns before biding his time with Footscray in recent weeks.

But Beveridge said based on recent form, the 35-year-old could not be overlooked for selection.

“Stef’s had a really tough year health-wise and injury-wise. It’s only over the last month that he’s really gotten on top of things,” Beveridge told media on Friday morning.

“In his last couple of games for Footscray, he’s moved like a 25-year-old. It’s the Stefan Martin that we’ve seen be really influential at AFL level, albeit at state-league level.

“(Based) off form, we really had to bring him in. it gives us an opportunity to play two rucks in a really 50-50 way.

“Obviously Jordon Sweet has come into the team at different times when Tim has come out and Stef has been unavailable – and Jordon has done a pretty good job with that – but Stef is in some pretty good form so comes in feeling pretty confident that he’s going to have an impact.”

In addition to Martin’s recall, Lachie Hunter and Ryan Gardner also return to face GWS.

Making way are Riley Garcia and Alex Keath, while Josh Bruce has been managed.

“Lachie has had a muddled year – he’s had some challenges away from the Club, and over the last period of time has played some pretty solid footy for Footscray.” Beveridge said.

“He comes into the team to play an important role.

“Brucey hasn’t necessarily found the rhythm in his game that he has in the past – as you can imagine, playing full games in succession after such a long period out of the game, you pull up a little bit ginger and sore at times.

“With Footscray having the bye this week, we thought it was a good opportunity to play the two rucks and give Brucey a spell and freshen him up a bit in the mind and in the body.”

The Bulldogs will host the Giants at Marvel Stadium from 1.45pm AEST tomorrow afternoon.

[EasternWest]

Calling it. Martin injury sub before quarter time.

[bornadog]

Beveridge: We had to bring Stef in (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1195323/beveridge-we-had-to-bring-stef-in?fbclid=IwAR2dZOeXS1rAlc3cIIuh2FWdDMIqCb5It0g8eWjLDdwQICoQ 3Rl6RBmja84)


“(Based) off form, we really had to bring him in. it gives us an opportunity to play two rucks in a really 50-50 way..

Will this happen?

[Axe Man]

Will this happen?

Get the stopwatch out BAD.

[bornadog]

Get the stopwatch out BAD.

I will be checking every stat :D

[MrMahatma]

Martin BOG. A return of the 3 headed monster up front (Naughty, JUH, English) and a 15 goal win.

[GVGjr]

Calling it. Martin injury sub before quarter time.

I really hope you are wrong. Giving Tim a bit of a lighter work load before playing the Hawks might have been in the decision making.

[Grantysghost]

I will be checking every stat :D

Every stat?

[bornadog]

Every stat?

Except pressure acts :D

[Grantysghost]

Except pressure acts :D

https://media.giphy.com/media/12gTXYTS09oST6/giphy.gif

[Axe Man]

Every stat?

The only numbers BAD is interested in is height, weight and age.

[bornadog]

The only numbers BAD is interested in is height, weight and age.

and not looking good :D

[The Doctor]

R: Martin

Channelling Mike Williamson

"I tipped this!"

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

You begin to wonder what the long time future of both Sweet and Schache are at the Club. Without Bruce you would have thought that Schache would have been his replacement.
Selecting Martin at this late stage given the decision to play English as our sole ruck man for most of the season is puzzling.

[Bulldog4life]

You begin to wonder what the long time future of both Sweet and Schache are at the Club. Without Bruce you would have thought that Schache would have been his replacement.
Selecting Martin at this late stage given the decision to play English as our sole ruck man for most of the season is puzzling.

Schache's contract expires at end of this year. Shaky ground. Sweet appears safe as he is contracted to the end of 2023.

[MrMahatma]

Schache's contract expires at end of this year. Shaky ground. Sweet appears safe as he is contracted to the end of 2023.

I like Schache but we shouldn’t recontract him cause he doesn’t get games.