LOL Bulldogs

[Mantis]

Since we can laugh at others shouldn’t we have a laugh at ourselves?

That’s a combined 147pt turnaround in our last 2 finals.

The footy world is laughing at us… very interested to see how we come back from this.

[MrMahatma]

How about that forward line?

Haaaaa! So good. Imagine those fans alll excited about the win at 1/4 time! Losers!!

[SonofScray]

There is no coming back. We've tarnished our reputation and now have the choker tag. It'll turn into a Harambe sized monkey on the back of the club now, and drive us to another 60 plus year flag drought.

[Eastdog]

How about that forward line?

Haaaaa! So good. Imagine those fans alll excited about the win at 1/4 time! Losers!!

If there was just 1 quarter of footy not 4 we would do well but there is 4 quarters and we seem quite a bit to struggle to play 4 quarters.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Too soon.

After the GF I was shocked. After tonight, I'm livid.

[jeemak]

Both have reasons, both are fixable.

I love you all but I really wouldn't want many of you by my side in a crisis.*


*I get this is a bit of a lol thread.

[MrMahatma]

Both have reasons, both are fixable.

I love you all but I really wouldn't want many of you by my side in a crisis.*


*I get this is a bit of a lol thread.

Name the dogs players you want with you in a crisis?

[jeemak]

Name the dogs players you want with you in a crisis?

Jacko, Bont, Dunks, Smith, Libba, Treloar, JJ, Gardner, Keath (fit and outside of a five crazy minutes tonight), Cordy, Weightman, Daniel, Roarke.

It'll change as others mature, but it shows how far behind we are in terms of reliable players to carry us at the moment. that we think last year was anything other than a miracle is beyond me.

[MrMahatma]

Jacko, Bont, Dunks, Smith, Libba, Treloar, JJ, Gardner, Keath (fit and outside of a five crazy minutes tonight), Cordy, Weightman, Daniel, Roarke.

It'll change as others mature, but it shows how far behind we are in terms of reliable players to carry us at the moment. that we think last year was anything other than a miracle is beyond me.

Was there a crisis at any time in our elimination final?

[Dancin' Douggy]

I believe Bevo is underachieving with a talented list and I am just perpetually gobsmacked with player selection and trading. I seriously think this last loss is indefensible.

[whythelongface]

I get the frustration and that there are issues that need addressing but seriously I think we read into this way too much. Baying for Bevo’s head, reputations tarnished, never coming back from this - gotta love the drama. The problem at the moment is that we are a victim of our own success - we are now expecting a lot from a list that has flaws and is not ready. We are expecting a lot from a forward line that had a 22, 20 and 19 year old as the key targets - all players that have serious upside but are 3,4, 5 years from playing their best football. We are also lacking in certain areas which, we all know, need addressing.

Those baying for Bevo and suggesting he is gone. One simple question- whom takes over as coach? The talent pool is bare. Bare. I mean there is literally know one. What we have is a bloody good coach whom with a quality list will take us to the pinnacle (we know there are serious gaps that need addressing) and who (for all his stubbornness) is a good game day coach - no doubt he needs assistance but in reality he has taken a fairly average list (with some extreme levels of talent) to be very competitive. Building a dynasty takes time - 6, 7, 10 years even - perseverance and the opportunity to build a list with your key requirements is the key. You simply don’t get rid of a good coach if you have one.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I get the frustration and that there are issues that need addressing but seriously I think we read into this way too much. Baying for Bevo’s head, reputations tarnished, never coming back from this - gotta love the drama. The problem at the moment is that we are a victim of our own success - we are now expecting a lot from a list that has flaws and is not ready. We are expecting a lot from a forward line that had a 22, 20 and 19 year old as the key targets - all players that have serious upside but are 3,4, 5 years from playing their best football. We are also lacking in certain areas which, we all know, need addressing.

Those baying for Bevo and suggesting he is gone. One simple question- whom takes over as coach? The talent pool is bare. Bare. I mean there is literally know one. What we have is a bloody good coach whom with a quality list will take us to the pinnacle (we know there are serious gaps that need addressing) and who (for all his stubbornness) is a good game day coach - no doubt he needs assistance but in reality he has taken a fairly average list (with some extreme levels of talent) to be very competitive. Building a dynasty takes time - 6, 7, 10 years even - perseverance and the opportunity to build a list with your key requirements is the key. You simply don’t get rid of a good coach if you have one.

I take your point and agree in many respects.

I do think Bevo has been at the club long enough to get everything he feels he needs to succeed both on field and off field, so there's simply no excuse to be made for the last two finals capitulations and an awful 2022 season. He's been at the club 8 years!

This list is arguably at it's worst in that time. Our coaching group looks horrific compared to every other list - how the *!*!*!*! does Spangher go from an admin role to coaching the forwards of a team coming off a GF?

I'm of the belief we need a quick rebuild. This list is fragile, broken and structurally a mess. It's one pro was it's ability to grind, we did it once this whole year.

We are quickly going to waste another year, and the Bontempelli era, if we roll into 2023 with minimal changes. We need significant changes.

Bevo spoke about top 4 and sustained success at the beginning of the year. The only thing we've sustained is our status as the laughing stock of the footy world with our self destruction in big finals.

[merantau]

For those who want blood answer me this question. How many flags have John Longmire, Chris Scott and Ross Lyon won between them?

Flags are hard to win. We have a coach, the most successful coach in the Club's history and we must get behind him.

Next year is another opportunity. Work hard over the.off season, look to fill gaps, develop our youngsters and we are still in the mix.

[Mantis]

Those baying for Bevo and suggesting he is gone. One simple question- whom takes over as coach? The talent pool is bare. Bare. I mean there is literally know one. What we have is a bloody good coach whom with a quality list will take us to the pinnacle (we know there are serious gaps that need addressing) and who (for all his stubbornness) is a good game day coach - no doubt he needs assistance but in reality he has taken a fairly average list (with some extreme levels of talent) to be very competitive. Building a dynasty takes time - 6, 7, 10 years even - perseverance and the opportunity to build a list with your key requirements is the key. You simply don’t get rid of a good coach if you have one.

How do you know the cupboard is bare? Craig Macrae was an unproven coach at the beginning of the year and has taken Collingwood from 17th to 4th.

I agree that Bevo is a very good coach, but our ‘system’ & personnel didn’t get the job done this year and we need to work out why.

[1eyedog]

Both have reasons, both are fixable.

I love you all but I really wouldn't want many of you by my side in a crisis.*


*I get this is a bit of a lol thread.

100% you'd prolly rush in and get us all killed!

Lulz.

[EasternWest]

100% you'd prolly rush in and get us all killed!

Lulz.

Damn Leeeeeroy Jenkins.

[whythelongface]

How do you know the cupboard is bare? Craig Macrae was an unproven coach at the beginning of the year and has taken Collingwood from 17th to 4th.

I agree that Bevo is a very good coach, but our ‘system’ & personnel didn’t get the job done this year and we need to work out why.

Of course we need to work out why. That is a fact.

In regards to the coaching pool. You are right I don’t know but for every Macrae there is Bolton, or a Noble, or a Rutten. Give me what we have in this area, and try to resolve the matters first and foremost that need addressing, rather than changing for the sake of it.

[Sedat]

Since we can laugh at others shouldn’t we have a laugh at ourselves?

That’s a combined 147pt turnaround in our last 2 finals.

The footy world is laughing at us… very interested to see how we come back from this.
As a club we swept the GF capitulation under the carpet. Our best got us 19 points up with 37 mins to go in a GF, and our best got us 41 points up in a cut-throat final on the road yesterday. Unfortunately, our worst conceded 16 goals to 1 in the final 37 minutes of the GF and 11 goals to 2 last night. Opposition now smell blood with us and we have a significant challenge to rectify all of our game plan, our structure, our personnel and our psychological make-up. How do we harden our resolve when we next stare opposition challenges in the face in a final? Other clubs have been able to, can we? I remain positive that we have some of the tools at our disposal so that we can contend and do so for a stretch of years, but we have clear challenges that we now cannot hide from.

In the cold hard light of day, last night can help us get to another premiership tilt - we have nowhere to hide now and need to have a proper look under the hood, and fix what is currently broken and not working.

[Grantysghost]

As a club we swept the GF capitulation under the carpet. Our best got us 19 points up with 37 mins to go in a GF, and our best got us 41 points up in a cut-throat final on the road yesterday. Unfortunately our worst conceded 16 goals to 1 in the final 37 minutes of the GF and 11 goals to 2 last night. Opposition now smell blood with us and we have a significant challenge to rectify all of our game plan, our personnel and our psychological make-up. How do we harden our resolve when we next stare opposition challenges in the face in a final?

I'd argue this started prior to those two games mentioned.

GWS 2019 elimination final. Never recovered mentally.

[DOG GOD]

We all agree that things have to change. From on field personal, gameplan, asst coaches, team selection, recruiting etc etc.
But the biggest question remains. Does the Western Bulldogs football club have the balls to make the decisions required.?

[Sedat]

I'd argue this started prior to those two games mentioned.

GWS 2019 elimination final. Never recovered mentally.
2019 was an embarrassment but we weren't ready. 2020 was more of an indictment but even then we weren't yet in the window that our club put on the record. We have been in the window the last 2 years, and our best football is clearly of a premiership winning standard that not many clubs are capable of. Unfortunately our worst, as exposed in the last 2 finals, has undone all the gains of our best. There is nowhere to hide now - better to get to work 12 months late than not to do the work.

I expect us to do a forensic examination of everything this off-season, something we didn't do and should have done 12 months ago - game plan, personnel, structure, list, tactics, psychology/player well-being, coaching depth. I don't think we should go the nuclear option and destroy everything, because we do have the bones of a potential premiership contending team.

[GVGjr]

I get the frustration and that there are issues that need addressing but seriously I think we read into this way too much. Baying for Bevo’s head, reputations tarnished, never coming back from this - gotta love the drama. The problem at the moment is that we are a victim of our own success - we are now expecting a lot from a list that has flaws and is not ready. We are expecting a lot from a forward line that had a 22, 20 and 19 year old as the key targets - all players that have serious upside but are 3,4, 5 years from playing their best football. We are also lacking in certain areas which, we all know, need addressing.

Those baying for Bevo and suggesting he is gone. One simple question- whom takes over as coach? The talent pool is bare. Bare. I mean there is literally know one. What we have is a bloody good coach whom with a quality list will take us to the pinnacle (we know there are serious gaps that need addressing) and who (for all his stubbornness) is a good game day coach - no doubt he needs assistance but in reality he has taken a fairly average list (with some extreme levels of talent) to be very competitive. Building a dynasty takes time - 6, 7, 10 years even - perseverance and the opportunity to build a list with your key requirements is the key. You simply don’t get rid of a good coach if you have one.

I'm all for keep Bevo but he is going to need some more support. Given the coaches in the finals this year are all one team senior coaches it's not like getting a first time coach is a real problem for any club.

[GVGjr]

In the cold hard light of day, last night can help us get to another premiership tilt - we have nowhere to hide now and need to have a proper look under the hood, and fix what is currently broken and not working.

This is exactly how I see it, two losses from winning positions should mean we have to have a deeper look at our failings and puts some steps in place to address that. We cannot sweep this under the carpet and expect anything to change and it's not as simple as just getting a couple of needs based players.

[The bulldog tragician]

The loss last night and the GF had all those shadows of our many years of finals underperformance. I was waiting for those Roughead moments..in the EF and GF where one individual basically when the cages were rattling says “we’re not going to lose this on my watch.” Instead all the moments were of panic and poor choices. Freo held onto a two goal buffer for the last 10 minutes without us looking like we could possibly conjure up another major. It looked like a mountain. Were we mentally or physically shot? Either way, why?

The Collingwood-Geelong match gave me lots of questions. Time and again Geelong present for finals after they are written off. They could have been mentally scarred by embarrassing losses and straight set exits, they’re not. Guys whose finals performances are a long running joke turn it around. What are they doing we can’t?

Collingwood have had a staggering rise. If they were in our position last night, two goals down with 10 minutes to play, they would have fired another shot and played all the big moments so much better…even if they didn’t win. (They would have against Freo though). What are they doing that we can’t?

[anfo27]

The loss last night mirrored our season. When we get the game on our terms, we look good. When we don't have it on our terms, we make the opposition look great!

[bornadog]

The loss last night mirrored our season. When we get the game on our terms, we look good. When we don't have it on our terms, we make the opposition look great!

We have several players in our defence who panick with the ball and don't think over what the next play should be.

Whilst Richards has had a great year, he has presented many howlers in lost of games, especially trying to switch play and either getting caught or kicking to the opposition. Dale also gets caught a few times but is not as bad. Keath is almost cooked for me, I was so disappointed in his trying to do too much last night and turning over the ball.

As for VDM, I am still livid in his game last night. I actually prefer McNeil.

[Happy Days]

Man I gotta find something else to do with my time.

Take a look at the stats sheet. There’s a really clear line between our AFL standard guys and some tradies that we pick each week for some reason. It’s been going on forever and absolutely has to stop. Only guys who are good or might eventually be good from now on.

[Mofra]

I believe Bevo is underachieving with a talented list and I am just perpetually gobsmacked with player selection and trading. I seriously think this last loss is indefensible.
Talented list - maybe not as good as we think?

Our gameplan of "let Bont drag us over the line" barely accounts for one of our top-liners having a down patch in the game. With Libba out we seem to have too many accumulators, not enough 'grunt'

[Grantysghost]

Man I gotta find something else to do with my time.

Take a look at the stats sheet. There’s a really clear line between our AFL standard guys and some tradies that we pick each week for some reason. It’s been going on forever and absolutely has to stop. Only guys who are good or might eventually be good from now on.

Haha tradies! Where is Jack Redpath.

Needed that laugh thanks HD.

Weightman seems to get a free pass on here, was as bad as Vanders.

[whythelongface]

I'm all for keep Bevo but he is going to need some more support. Given the coaches in the finals this year are all one team senior coaches it's not like getting a first time coach is a real problem for any club.

It is not a problem getting a senior coach but getting a good coach is the hard bit. You need to get it right (plenty of failures in the recruitment of first time coaches). The examples you have mentioned, with the exception of Macrae and Longmuir, have all been coaching for awhile with varying levels of success. Scott and Longmire both inherited very good list. Hardwick, Goodwin, Fagan and Bevo took their lists to various levels of success (Bevo with a quick win) that have come over a period of time. Generally it is not something that happens over night. If we were to replace Bevo potentially it could lead to a positive change but it could also be a spectacular fail. Apart from Hardwick, Bevo has had as much success as all on that list (and with no where as near as much resources as the bigger clubs).

As you and others have rightly mentioned we need an overhaul in terms of assistants, resourcing and our playing list. I still think Bevo is the right man for the job.

[Mantis]

Man I gotta find something else to do with my time.

Take a look at the stats sheet. There’s a really clear line between our AFL standard guys and some tradies that we pick each week for some reason. It’s been going on forever and absolutely has to stop. Only guys who are good or might eventually be good from now on.

The evenness we had across the field in 2016 has long gone and we’re left with about 12-14 really good- great AFL players (but most in the same part of the ground) and then the rest are either bog average or not up to it…. Something needs to change with that.

Agree about the amount of time/ energy invested. I went as a neutral to the game on Friday night and it was so much more fun cheering on the Swans with my GF rather than losing my shit for most of last night. My youngest son is showing interest now so time to take a step back from being fully invested and take it for what it is.

[whythelongface]

The evenness we had across the field in 2016 has long gone and we’re left with about 12-14 really good- great AFL players (but most in the same part of the ground) and then the rest are either bog average or not up to it…. Something needs to change with that.

Agree about the amount of time/ energy invested. I went as a neutral to the game on Friday night and it was so much more fun cheering on the Swans with my GF rather than losing my shit for most of last night. My youngest son is showing interest now so time to take a step back from being fully invested and take it for what it is.


Good approach and advice. My son is fully invested and I just sit there all night going don’t worry it is only a game of football. Other more important things to worry about (though deep down I am fuming and ready to swear and throw things at the TV - but parenting 101 says ‘don’t let your football team get in the way of good parenting’).

[GVGjr]

Talented list - maybe not as good as we think?

Our gameplan of "let Bont drag us over the line" barely accounts for one of our top-liners having a down patch in the game. With Libba out we seem to have too many accumulators, not enough 'grunt'

A GF in 2021 after dominating a fair portion of the season would indicate it's a more than decent list. What we didn't do is address the obvious gaps in last years trade period in preparation for 2022 and just struggled far too often.

I agree we need some players with that grunt factor about them.

[EasternWest]

Man I gotta find something else to do with my time.

Take a look at the stats sheet. There’s a really clear line between our AFL standard guys and some tradies that we pick each week for some reason. It’s been going on forever and absolutely has to stop. Only guys who are good or might eventually be good from now on.

Would it make you feel a bit better if we discuss Will Brodie's hairline?

[Happy Days]

Would it make you feel a bit better if we discuss Will Brodie's hairline?

Falling back worse than the Dogs with a 7 goal lead.

[Flamethrower]

Missed the game - too busy celebrating 2 senior WRFL premierships after a great day at Yarraville Oval. GO SHARKS!!!!

Saw we lost by 2 goals after leading early - similar story to many finals I have seen over the years when the superior team starts nervously and finds themselves down 5 goals early, only to slowly claw their way back only to win a hard fought game.

We were far inferior to the other 7 teams that made the finals, and have finished where we belong. Out list is a shemozzle at the moment with a huge gulf between an elite group and a heap of players that are VFL standard at best.

Any LOL shouldn't be at the Ryan Gardners, Zaine Cordys, Mitch Hannans and Robbie McCombs etc, it should be at whomever in the football department that thinks this is a list that can compete with the absolute elite of the AFL.

[Bulldog4life]

Missed the game - too busy celebrating 2 senior WRFL premierships after a great day at Yarraville Oval. GO SHARKS!!!!

Saw we lost by 2 goals after leading early - similar story to many finals I have seen over the years when the superior team starts nervously and finds themselves down 5 goals early, only to slowly claw their way back only to win a hard fought game.

We were far inferior to the other 7 teams that made the finals, and have finished where we belong. Out list is a shemozzle at the moment with a huge gulf between an elite group and a heap of players that are VFL standard at best.

Any LOL shouldn't be at the Ryan Gardners, Zaine Cordys, Mitch Hannans and Robbie McCombs etc, it should be at whomever in the football department that thinks this is a list that can compete with the absolute elite of the AFL.

Hang on Ryan was terrific last night. A key member of our side now.

[EasternWest]

Missed the game - too busy celebrating 2 senior WRFL premierships after a great day at Yarraville Oval. GO SHARKS!!!!

Saw we lost by 2 goals after leading early - similar story to many finals I have seen over the years when the superior team starts nervously and finds themselves down 5 goals early, only to slowly claw their way back only to win a hard fought game.

We were far inferior to the other 7 teams that made the finals, and have finished where we belong. Out list is a shemozzle at the moment with a huge gulf between an elite group and a heap of players that are VFL standard at best.

Any LOL shouldn't be at the Ryan Gardners, Zaine Cordys, Mitch Hannans and Robbie McCombs etc, it should be at whomever in the football department that thinks this is a list that can compete with the absolute elite of the AFL.

Gardner was really solid last night. He's fine.

Congratulations on the wins.

[mjp]

1/. This really (really) should have been my thread to start. I'm disappointed in you Mantis.

Unfortunately it took me approximately 11000 hours to get the train home after the game last night and when I finally did arrive, well, no chance I was logging on. Then work this morning so...

2/. It really is pretty funny. Our last two finals have been at Optus. We had both games comfortably 'in hand' and appeared to be doing it 'on the bit'. But wait. Is that 'Luke Jackson/Sean Darcy's music I can hear off in the distance...'

Freo were awesome. And they quite literally COULD NOT MISS - 7 goals in a row they kicked to start their fightback...and with the exception of the Dunks "I am just going to snap this over my shoulder, watch out" statement goal we were unable to take any of the chances we created.

What can I say, LOL 'DOGs.

[Mantis]

1/. This really (really) should have been my thread to start. I'm disappointed in you Mantis.

Unfortunately it took me approximately 11000 hours to get the train home after the game last night and when I finally did arrive, well, no chance I was logging on. Then work this morning so...

2/. It really is pretty funny. Our last two finals have been at Optus. We had both games comfortably 'in hand' and appeared to be doing it 'on the bit'. But wait. Is that 'Luke Jackson/Sean Darcy's music I can hear off in the distance...'

Freo were awesome. And they quite literally COULD NOT MISS - 7 goals in a row they kicked to start their fightback...and with the exception of the Dunks "I am just going to snap this over my shoulder, watch out" statement goal we were unable to take any of the chances we created.

What can I say, LOL 'DOGs.

I’m sorry mate but I needed to say it out loud last night to help with the cleansing process.

Our ball use going forward was as predictable as it always is and we just give up easy goals…. Oh the joys!

[Grantysghost]

1/. This really (really) should have been my thread to start. I'm disappointed in you Mantis.

Unfortunately it took me approximately 11000 hours to get the train home after the game last night and when I finally did arrive, well, no chance I was logging on. Then work this morning so...

2/. It really is pretty funny. Our last two finals have been at Optus. We had both games comfortably 'in hand' and appeared to be doing it 'on the bit'. But wait. Is that 'Luke Jackson/Sean Darcy's music I can hear off in the distance...'

Freo were awesome. And they quite literally COULD NOT MISS - 7 goals in a row they kicked to start their fightback...and with the exception of the Dunks "I am just going to snap this over my shoulder, watch out" statement goal we were unable to take any of the chances we created.

What can I say, LOL 'DOGs.

I've been waiting all day for this, worth it.

Anything you could see at the game we wouldn't on the TV?

I felt our forwards were half a kick too deep when exiting the defensive area /dumping it.

But AFL on TV doesn't make it easy.

[jeemak]

I've been waiting all day for this, worth it.

Anything you could see at the game we wouldn't on the TV?

I felt our forwards were half a kick too deep when exiting the defensive area /dumping it.

But AFL on TV doesn't make it easy.

When all you get is barracking for a close game or upset, rather than any insightful comments about how sides are structuring.

[GVGjr]

Gardner was really solid last night. He's fine.


He's definitely made a lot of progress this season.

[Bulldog4life]

He's definitely made a lot of progress this season.

Takes a lot to go from a whipping boy to a recognize regular in our team. Just shows we shouldn't write players off early in their career.

[G-Mo77]

He's definitely made a lot of progress this season.

Still is a bloody awful kick. Opponents move away from him so he can get the ball in hand. I saw it several times last night

[The bulldog tragician]

Still is a bloody awful kick. Opponents move away from him so he can get the ball in hand. I saw it several times last night

He still has limitations, which are more apparent given the lack of quality around him.. it’s always his reflex to spoil, putting the ball back in a hotspot, and at least one goal I think came from him leaving his opponent to do so.

[EasternWest]

Still is a bloody awful kick. Opponents move away from him so he can get the ball in hand. I saw it several times last night

Disagree.

He'll never be Bailey Dale but he's considerably better than he was.

[Mantis]

Disagree.

He'll never be Bailey Dale but he's considerably better than he was.

He is more than ok when he has time & space, but it’s hand over eyes stuff when there’s pressure on him.

[EasternWest]

He is more than ok when he has time & space, but it’s hand over eyes stuff when there’s pressure on him.

Yep.

[soupman]

He is more than ok when he has time & space, but it’s hand over eyes stuff when there’s pressure on him.

Isn't that par for the course with virtually all key defenders, with the exception being the few at the top?

Liam Jones is gonna be interesting in this regard.

[Mantis]

Isn't that par for the course with virtually all key defenders, with the exception being the few at the top?

Liam Jones is gonna be interesting in this regard.

Fair point, but I do think Ryan's ability to at least 'get the ball out of trouble' is limited... The horrible up & under kick against Syd happened pretty much right in front of me and still gives me cold sweats.

[Bulldog4life]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/afl/article-11183271/Western-Bulldogs-stars-party-Mad-Monday-celebrations-teammate-Zaine-Cordy-carried-out.html

Western Bulldogs stars party into the night at wild Mad Monday celebrations after worse-for-wear Zaine Cordy had to be CARRIED to a taxi by his teammates in broad daylight.

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fb857COaIAgPWGy?format=jpg&name=medium

[EasternWest]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fb857COaIAgPWGy?format=jpg&name=medium

It hurts but I'll allow it.