Everyone has a plan until...

[mjp]

I got home late from the game last night and then had to work this morning so have been a bit tardy looking at the site. I can literally feel the frustration in the posts and I guess being at the game I simply didn't feel that way. I wasn't frustrated at the players (or the plan)...I suppose I sort of went in to the game thinking Freo - who had won 3 more games than us this year AND were playing at home in front of a really loud crowd (for those who haven't experienced it, Optus is LOUD - it was engineered so the crowd noise stays 'IN') and our year has been all over the place.

I was (obviously) sitting in the 'Dogs section (notice there is NO PLURAL being used) and even that had more than a smattering of Freo supporters...at 3/4 time the couple next to me were wringing their hands and I said 'Hey - a goal up at 3/4 time? Before the game I would have taken that...let's stay positive' but it wasn't to be.

1/. We did a LOT right. We went into the game with a CLEAR PLAN. English and Cordy were team 'ruck' with Cordy helping down back. Darcy was team long target with Naughts and Marra the leading options. JJ was the highest small forward (along with Hunter) with Weightman next in line and VDM on clean-up duties around the Darcy contest. What else? Nothing much - Keith and Gardner rolled across opponents pretty regularly, no tags that I could identify.


2/. Our focus was clearly ball retention inside 50/repeat entries/weight of numbers. Early on we ALWAYS had an extra back - usually English (more on this in a minute) and the defenders had HELP. Our forward half was a dead set mad scramble from what I could tell (I was on the 50m line at the opposite end from where we kicked in q1) but Darcy was really holding his position deep and (I think) got two shots on goal. Naughton and Marra were looking dangerous without being dangerous which was attracting Pearce and Cox away from the defensive goal-square...Freo are a good defensive unit but early on Chapman and Young - both inexperienced players - seemed lost at times and both JJ and Hunter had some nice involvements. Walker had the clamps on Weightman and I was not enjoying that match-up for us, particularly as Cody seems unable to stop himself jumping at the ball giving Freo an extra on the ground basically EVERY TIME. Luckily, Cody was awarded a mark (which was not a mark) and that forced Walker to clamp even more tightly...

3/. Freo started to run. Their ability to forward handball out of contested situations - Acres was a monster here - was tremendous and our spare (still primarily English) was caught in between the play. This repeatedly happened and Freo started to kick, well, goals. Basically, once they starting kicking them they couldn't stop and got 7 in a row. One of Lobb's in particular was a very impressive kick (the wind was STRONG) and due to lack of supply our forwards crept higher and higher as a group...Freo maintained an extra which often seemed to be Chapman as we played an extra forward up at the stoppage.

I'm gonna stop here for a second. To me this was the game. Freo had a spare as a very agile running player and we had a ruckman. Our ruckman was pushing up and back - contest, drop back, woops, another stoppage, contest, drop back - whereas Freo had a player providing both aerial support and run. I get the criticism of English but he had an interesting challenge which I thought he tried hard to execute...unfortunately he needed to clunk some of those behind the ball marks he got his hands on but couldn't.

4/. Up forward, Naughts was killing himself to provide a target but whenever he was the 'kick-to' he had a crowd to deal with. Because of this, we lost our deep support - I have no idea what happened to Darcy but he has played like 2 games and, what can I tell you, dreamers pick kids in finals (sorry). By the way, Freo picked Amiss so what do I know. Marra did not look dangerous, Hunter looked fumbly and just seemed to lack 'focus' (hard to describe what I was seeing but everything he did seemed 'hard' whereas in the past watching him live he has oozed confidence and really displayed a one-touch ability)...Weightman was completely at sea vs Walker and continued to fly for everything...geez it is frustrating to watch at times. I would have loved to see him moved up on the wing for a bit to get into the flow of the game...

5/. All of a sudden, game on the line and Darcy is in the ruck? I didn't see that earlier...we needed to win stoppages and we have a kid in the centre square? I didn't love it I have to say. I just felt it really showed we had abandoned the plan from before the game and were trying to pluck a rabbit from a hat....I mean, good on Bevo for trying stuff and all that but it didn't give me confidence and I reckon had I mean a player like Dunkley or Naughton who live literally killed themselves with their effort, well, I wouldn't have loved it.

That's sort of it.

There's been lot's of talk on this site about the list and players not being up to it etc - I don't know. I think there is talent. Hunter clearly out of form, Bailey Williams looks uncertain and confused about what his role really is, Vanders is a player without a position at the moment and is trying to shoe-horn his game into what he has been told a small forward should look like...Darcy is a kid, JUH is a kid - and they were two of our 3 forward targets? Ultimately if we had Naughton and Tom Lynch we prob win by 10 goals....but if we had Tom Lynch then those kids don't play and they need to play to develop....there is no doubt we have some challenges. (p.s. Substitute the name 'Tom Lynch' for 'Rory Lobb' if you like and you will get what I mean).

[azabob]

Thanks mjp.

On being at the ground v on tv.

For my sanity always better watching at the ground as you can see what is going on outside of the tv screen.

In your mind any correlation between lasts nights game and the GF?

[mjp]

Thanks mjp.

On being at the ground v on tv.

For my sanity always better watching at the ground as you can see what is going on outside of the tv screen.

In your mind any correlation between lasts nights game and the GF?

Not really. Other than we were in front and got over-run.

[Go_Dogs]

Thanks mjp.

[angelopetraglia]

Thanks, a great perspective and important insights. You miss so much on TV and the actual TV product was terrible last night. Too many extreme close ups where you could not see what was happening. Zero perspective on the actual wider field.

[boydogs]

The title of the thread is everyone has a plan until. That's our issue, we have a plan A that beats everyone when it works but no plan B

[Twodogs]

The title of the thread is everyone has a plan until. That's our issue, we have a plan A that beats everyone when it works but no plan B

Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face (Mike Tyson) is the full quote. And we got punched in the face big time.

[jeemak]

Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face (Mike Tyson) is the full quote. And we got punched in the face big time.

Leading up to a fight that he lost.

It's a great quote, but what gets lost over time is the irony in its birth. Tyson didn't have a plan and completely ruined any good will and credibility he had when he said it by being a maggot in the ring and losing the fight after biting off his opponent's ear.

You may argue they were engaging in different sports at the time......but that's a stretch.

[Grantysghost]

A plan I would've liked to see is when your 41 points up with a handful of minutes to half time you suck the speed out of the game.
We lost it at the end of the second.
We just play manic footy without game awareness so often.

Bont marks across half back.

Gestures to slow down.

By the way whatever that anchor symbol meant for Freo it worked.

Anchor = win now.

[Mantis]

The title of the thread is everyone has a plan until. That's our issue, we have a plan A that beats everyone when it works but no plan B

What should our plan B look like?

[mjp]

The title of the thread is everyone has a plan until. That's our issue, we have a plan A that beats everyone when it works but no plan B

I have to admit, I battle with the 'plan b' concept.

It's hard enough to get the players to all be on the same page with one plan, let alone 2!

[Danjul]

I have to admit, I battle with the 'plan b' concept.

It's hard enough to get the players to all be on the same page with one plan, let alone 2!
To be honest I watched the first quarter thinking we had finally found a plan B.

Our players seemed to be playing closer attention to the opposition players and less concerned about zoning. The Freo players did not handle the situation well, constantly fumbling because of the attention.

Then we went back to the reliable plan A. Early sign of the change- Cordy in the centre bounce.

[mjp]

Then we went back to the reliable plan A. Early sign of the change- Cordy in the centre bounce.

I don't want to get into another ruck argument but Cordy was in @ CBD in the first q and Freo nearly went into half-time goal-less...when they started kicking them they didn't stop though.

I do agree with you on the 2nd ruck issue and the fact that Cordy isn't ideal. I agree. But on the weekend what (to me) signalled we had abandoned our plan was seeing Darcy in the ruck.

Darcy, Jamarra and Cody all had sub 10 possessions to be 3 of our lowest 4 (JJ was the other with 8 + 2 goals). Under 10 for Freo - a lockdown defender (Walker), Logue who seemed to be without a role and Amiss...another very young forward who prob shouldn't have been selected but I guess they don't trust Taberner to stay fit...he played for Peel tho and I bet will come in this week.

We can't win 'serious' games with Darcy, JUH and Weightman in the same forward line...they simply are not ready.

You can play 1. But you can't play 3.

Ryan, Chapman, Cox, Clark...they were the best players on the ground and they were all Freo defenders.

[GVGjr]

I have to admit, I battle with the 'plan b' concept.

It's hard enough to get the players to all be on the same page with one plan, let alone 2!

I talked to Plough once who said something along the lines of we go into games with a plan and there is a default one if needed but in most instances we will stick with the plan and shuffle a few players around if it isn't getting the results we wanted.

[Mofra]

Mike Tyson - Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

OP was a good read as I didn't get to see much of the game.

[Boots]

I have to admit, I battle with the 'plan b' concept.

It's hard enough to get the players to all be on the same page with one plan, let alone 2!

'Plan b' is one third drills/discipline, one third leaders' game sense, and one third communication. Which bit(s) is/are going wrong?

[Danjul]

I have to admit, I battle with the 'plan b' concept.

It's hard enough to get the players to all be on the same page with one plan, let alone 2!


I don't want to get into another ruck argument but Cordy was in @ CBD in the first q and Freo nearly went into half-time goal-less...when they started kicking them they didn't stop though.

I do agree with you on the 2nd ruck issue and the fact that Cordy isn't ideal. I agree. But on the weekend what (to me) signalled we had abandoned our plan was seeing Darcy in the ruck.

Darcy, Jamarra and Cody all had sub 10 possessions to be 3 of our lowest 4 (JJ was the other with 8 + 2 goals). Under 10 for Freo - a lockdown defender (Walker), Logue who seemed to be without a role and Amiss...another very young forward who prob shouldn't have been selected but I guess they don't trust Taberner to stay fit...he played for Peel tho and I bet will come in this week.

We can't win 'serious' games with Darcy, JUH and Weightman in the same forward line...they simply are not ready.

You can play 1. But you can't play 3.

Ryan, Chapman, Cox, Clark...they were the best players on the ground and they were all Freo defenders.

Can’t disagree with anything here.


I think the forward structure selected was a gamble. A feel good ploy Playing to the crowd. after the 9 minute mark of the second quarter we got 1 goal until Smith’s lone effort as the game was ending. That’s two and a half quarters. The forward line may as well not been there.

Most of the scoring came from midfielders. Vanda was an interesting choice because of his long absence and previous poor games. Needed some body strength to keep the ball in, not straight line speed. That’s why I was surprised that West didn’t get the nod. In his last 11 games he had more possessions than Weightman 9 times (5 more in the game when he was dropped) and against GWS it was his strength in the pack and ability to get the ball to others (William’s goal) that got the poorly performing team over the line. Without it no finals appearance, and all the positive spin that will come from it.

[Mantis]

I don't want to get into another ruck argument but Cordy was in @ CBD in the first q and Freo nearly went into half-time goal-less...when they started kicking them they didn't stop though.

I do agree with you on the 2nd ruck issue and the fact that Cordy isn't ideal. I agree. But on the weekend what (to me) signalled we had abandoned our plan was seeing Darcy in the ruck.

Darcy, Jamarra and Cody all had sub 10 possessions to be 3 of our lowest 4 (JJ was the other with 8 + 2 goals). Under 10 for Freo - a lockdown defender (Walker), Logue who seemed to be without a role and Amiss...another very young forward who prob shouldn't have been selected but I guess they don't trust Taberner to stay fit...he played for Peel tho and I bet will come in this week.

We can't win 'serious' games with Darcy, JUH and Weightman in the same forward line...they simply are not ready.

You can play 1. But you can't play 3.

Ryan, Chapman, Cox, Clark...they were the best players on the ground and they were all Freo defenders.

But we're pretty much forced to because we don't have any other mature options.... and adding in straight line runners like JJ & VDM does nothing to help scrap in the forward line as that's not there go.

It would've been handy to have the option to play more mature bodies like Hannan or Bruce up forward just for some strength, but they either weren't deserving or capable to play so you go with the kids and hope they don't get exposed and if they do (did) they learn from it.

[Twodogs]

I talked to Plough once who said something along the lines of we go into games with a plan and there is a default one if needed but in most instances we will stick with the plan and shuffle a few players around if it isn't getting the results we wanted.

I happen to know what Terry's plan B was. If the opposition kicked 3 goals on a row then everyone had a man at the next centre bounce.

[FrediKanoute]

Can’t disagree with anything here.


I think the forward structure selected was a gamble. A feel good ploy Playing to the crowd. after the 9 minute mark of the second quarter we got 1 goal until Smith’s lone effort as the game was ending. That’s two and a half quarters. The forward line may as well not been there.

Most of the scoring came from midfielders. Vanda was an interesting choice because of his long absence and previous poor games. Needed some body strength to keep the ball in, not straight line speed. That’s why I was surprised that West didn’t get the nod. In his last 11 games he had more possessions than Weightman 9 times (5 more in the game when he was dropped) and against GWS it was his strength in the pack and ability to get the ball to others (William’s goal) that got the poorly performing team over the line. Without it no finals appearance, and all the positive spin that will come from it.

I felt the same re VdM vs West. In finals the pressure is such that you need strong contested players. West is that. I'm not against VdM so much, but VdM circa 2020/21 not the 2022 version.

[FrediKanoute]

But we're pretty much forced to because we don't have any other mature options.... and adding in straight line runners like JJ & VDM does nothing to help scrap in the forward line as that's not there go.

It would've been handy to have the option to play more mature bodies like Hannan or Bruce up forward just for some strength, but they either weren't deserving or capable to play so you go with the kids and hope they don't get exposed and if they do (did) they learn from it.

So why not stick with Bruce? Why not play Schache? That's what frustrated me. We abandoned the plan/approach we had stuck with stubbbornly since Bruce came back in a high pressure final. Instead we rolled the dice.

The other point I would make is that Cody has not been the same since he dislocated his elbow.

[merantau]

Maybe we need a plan like this:

https://fb.watch/flsqRN4EEZ/

Thanks Herbatron.

[boydogs]

What should our plan B look like?

Maybe possession over territory for a bit. Switch play, short passes, uncontested marks. Play on from 70 and try and run and handball to a shot at goal, or short pass to 50 out, instead of kicking to 8 players in a pack 25m out and getting rebounded on. Less aggressive press to stop over the back goals, more spoils and stoppages and getting the ball out of bounds. Not trying to chain handball from the defensive goal line to a score, rush the behind and setup again

[KT31]

I got home late from the game last night and then had to work this morning so have been a bit tardy looking at the site. I can literally feel the frustration in the posts and I guess being at the game I simply didn't feel that way. I wasn't frustrated at the players (or the plan)...I suppose I sort of went in to the game thinking Freo - who had won 3 more games than us this year AND were playing at home in front of a really loud crowd (for those who haven't experienced it, Optus is LOUD - it was engineered so the crowd noise stays 'IN') and our year has been all over the place.

I was (obviously) sitting in the 'Dogs section (notice there is NO PLURAL being used) and even that had more than a smattering of Freo supporters...at 3/4 time the couple next to me were wringing their hands and I said 'Hey - a goal up at 3/4 time? Before the game I would have taken that...let's stay positive' but it wasn't to be.

1/. We did a LOT right. We went into the game with a CLEAR PLAN. English and Cordy were team 'ruck' with Cordy helping down back. Darcy was team long target with Naughts and Marra the leading options. JJ was the highest small forward (along with Hunter) with Weightman next in line and VDM on clean-up duties around the Darcy contest. What else? Nothing much - Keith and Gardner rolled across opponents pretty regularly, no tags that I could identify.


2/. Our focus was clearly ball retention inside 50/repeat entries/weight of numbers. Early on we ALWAYS had an extra back - usually English (more on this in a minute) and the defenders had HELP. Our forward half was a dead set mad scramble from what I could tell (I was on the 50m line at the opposite end from where we kicked in q1) but Darcy was really holding his position deep and (I think) got two shots on goal. Naughton and Marra were looking dangerous without being dangerous which was attracting Pearce and Cox away from the defensive goal-square...Freo are a good defensive unit but early on Chapman and Young - both inexperienced players - seemed lost at times and both JJ and Hunter had some nice involvements. Walker had the clamps on Weightman and I was not enjoying that match-up for us, particularly as Cody seems unable to stop himself jumping at the ball giving Freo an extra on the ground basically EVERY TIME. Luckily, Cody was awarded a mark (which was not a mark) and that forced Walker to clamp even more tightly...

3/. Freo started to run. Their ability to forward handball out of contested situations - Acres was a monster here - was tremendous and our spare (still primarily English) was caught in between the play. This repeatedly happened and Freo started to kick, well, goals. Basically, once they starting kicking them they couldn't stop and got 7 in a row. One of Lobb's in particular was a very impressive kick (the wind was STRONG) and due to lack of supply our forwards crept higher and higher as a group...Freo maintained an extra which often seemed to be Chapman as we played an extra forward up at the stoppage.

I'm gonna stop here for a second. To me this was the game. Freo had a spare as a very agile running player and we had a ruckman. Our ruckman was pushing up and back - contest, drop back, woops, another stoppage, contest, drop back - whereas Freo had a player providing both aerial support and run. I get the criticism of English but he had an interesting challenge which I thought he tried hard to execute...unfortunately he needed to clunk some of those behind the ball marks he got his hands on but couldn't.

4/. Up forward, Naughts was killing himself to provide a target but whenever he was the 'kick-to' he had a crowd to deal with. Because of this, we lost our deep support - I have no idea what happened to Darcy but he has played like 2 games and, what can I tell you, dreamers pick kids in finals (sorry). By the way, Freo picked Amiss so what do I know. Marra did not look dangerous, Hunter looked fumbly and just seemed to lack 'focus' (hard to describe what I was seeing but everything he did seemed 'hard' whereas in the past watching him live he has oozed confidence and really displayed a one-touch ability)...Weightman was completely at sea vs Walker and continued to fly for everything...geez it is frustrating to watch at times. I would have loved to see him moved up on the wing for a bit to get into the flow of the game...

5/. All of a sudden, game on the line and Darcy is in the ruck? I didn't see that earlier...we needed to win stoppages and we have a kid in the centre square? I didn't love it I have to say. I just felt it really showed we had abandoned the plan from before the game and were trying to pluck a rabbit from a hat....I mean, good on Bevo for trying stuff and all that but it didn't give me confidence and I reckon had I mean a player like Dunkley or Naughton who live literally killed themselves with their effort, well, I wouldn't have loved it.

That's sort of it.

There's been lot's of talk on this site about the list and players not being up to it etc - I don't know. I think there is talent. Hunter clearly out of form, Bailey Williams looks uncertain and confused about what his role really is, Vanders is a player without a position at the moment and is trying to shoe-horn his game into what he has been told a small forward should look like...Darcy is a kid, JUH is a kid - and they were two of our 3 forward targets? Ultimately if we had Naughton and Tom Lynch we prob win by 10 goals....but if we had Tom Lynch then those kids don't play and they need to play to develop....there is no doubt we have some challenges. (p.s. Substitute the name 'Tom Lynch' for 'Rory Lobb' if you like and you will get what I mean).

Great post mjp.