Liam Jones

[GVGjr]

Much like with Rory Lobb the media speculation is still very strong that we are committing to bring back Liam Jones

If he returns to somewhere near his 2021 form Jones will be a very productive key defender for us capable of playing that critical 1 v 1 key defender spot for us but he's also a capable zone defender.

Being out of football for 12 months given his age is not ideal though.

I'm interested to hear how keen you are to bring back Liam Jones?

[Sedat]

I am very keen. At his best he is a quality AFL standard key defender, both from a 1-on-1 and a rebound marking perspective. Key defence, especially rebound marking, is an obvious area of weakness on our list. Having said that, we need to walk and chew gum at the same time, so I expect us to continue to bring in quality youth at the draft to address future key defensive needs after Jones retires in 3 or so years time.

We are in the window and Jones will help us to contend if he is 100% fit. I back our club to have done the necessary due diligence on the medical side of things.

[G-Mo77]

My answer lies between he's a freebie to the 3 year concerns me. It's essentially a 2 year deal spread over 3 so financially it is quite low but it's still a list spot. I'm happy to get him, I think he'll help but that 3rd year? Hmmmm.

[GVGjr]

My answer lies between he's a freebie to the 3 year concerns me. It's essentially a 2 year deal spread over 3 so financially it is quite low but it's still a list spot. I'm happy to get him, I think he'll help but that 3rd year? Hmmmm.

You could probably move him to the rookie list for the 3rd year if it wasn't working or he was injured.
Not sure the list spot for one year is that much of a stumbling block.

[MrMahatma]

My answer lies between he's a freebie to the 3 year concerns me. It's essentially a 2 year deal spread over 3 so financially it is quite low but it's still a list spot. I'm happy to get him, I think he'll help but that 3rd year? Hmmmm.

I'm the same. I still think it's worth a shot. The cumulative effect of having him, TOB, Cordy, Keath all on the list... who, really, none of them are getting any better than they are already, and all are likely to find a cliff soon (If Keath hasn't alredy), makes for a fair few potential list cloggers next season.

I really hope it works out with Jones. I gotta say I didn't ever watch too much of him at Carlton cause they were always awful in that time, so outside of the media talking him up, I'm not sure if he's going to make a huge difference.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Costs nothing, won't command a big salary, fits a position of need - no brainer.

As per above, we need to still look to draft/trade in some younger KPDs.

[F'scary]

I would re-sign Zaine before hiring Jones.

[F'scary]

Even though Jones' immune system hasn't been compromised by inadequately tested gene therapies, I don't think this gives him enough of an edge to re-hire him.

[whythelongface]

I remember the days when he was our whipping boy. Geez times change. Good on him for persevering and Carlton recognising he had something to offer as a defender (was it Ratten?). If he still has that defensive quality that we saw the last couple of years at AFL level then yes happy to have him back. There will be question marks but worth the punt.

[bornadog]

2021 highlights - people have forgotten how good he was.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grl_8RMuk7k

[azabob]

2021 highlights - people have forgotten how good he was.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grl_8RMuk7k

We have but that was 2021.

12 months out of the game on the wrong side of 30...

[hujsh]

Even though Jones' immune system hasn't been compromised by inadequately tested gene therapies, I don't think this gives him enough of an edge to re-hire him.


But what if the Ivermectin gave him horse stamina? (I know it's not just a horse dewormer just having a joke)

[F'scary]

But what if the Ivermectin gave him horse stamina? (I know it's not just a horse dewormer just having a joke)

It's good enough for Melbourne Cup winners.

[F'scary]

I remember the days when he was our whipping boy. Geez times change. Good on him for persevering and Carlton recognising he had something to offer as a defender (was it Ratten?). If he still has that defensive quality that we saw the last couple of years at AFL level then yes happy to have him back. There will be question marks but worth the punt.

Isn't the Club also after a new assistant coach? What if Jones signed on, only to find out the Hair Dryer had been rehired too?

[EasternWest]

Even though Jones' immune system hasn't been compromised by inadequately tested gene therapies, I don't think this gives him enough of an edge to re-hire him.

How do I delete someone else's post?

[Mofra]

Liam's a lovely guy, lucky football came along or he'd be washing car windscreens for change on an intersection somewhere.
I am worried about how a guy at 32 years of age will go back in a system after 18 months out. Really worried.

[F'scary]

How do I delete someone else's post?

You hit the button labelled Cancel Culture :cool:

[hujsh]

You hit the button labelled Cancel Culture :cool:

Oh no...

[bornadog]

Liam's a lovely guy, lucky football came along or he'd be washing car windscreens for change on an intersection somewhere.
I am worried about how a guy at 32 years of age will go back in a system after 18 months out. Really worried.

At worse, he doesn't cost much, and works with young guys like Gardner/Buku to help their footy.

[EasternWest]

You hit the button labelled Cancel Culture :cool:

There's milions of places on the internet and even a wild ride of a thread here on WOOF where you can spout your cooked shit. Take it there.
As for cancel culture, it's merely a name given by a collective of people when their modus operandi was used against them.

Can you expand more on why you don't want to pick up Liam?

I'm not against getting him but so long out from the top level and being that he's getting older I think it's all cumulative.

[Sedat]

I'm not against getting him but so long out from the top level and being that he's getting older I think it's all cumulative.
To me this is a non-negotiable, and I trust that our medical team has done all the necessary due diligence on Jones from an injury/health perspective.

I'm less worried about him adapting back to the game as he was a very good reader of the play from D50 in any event. I think he makes us better and in an area of deficiency for us, which is all you can ask for a new recruit.

[Grantysghost]

There's milions of places on the internet and even a wild ride of a thread here on WOOF where you can spout your cooked shit. Take it there.
As for cancel culture, it's merely a name given by a collective of people when their modus operandi was used against them.

Can you expand more on why you don't want to pick up Liam?

I'm not against getting him but so long out from the top level and being that he's getting older I think it's all cumulative.

Does it reek of desperation?

I am worried about the amount of time he's been out.

The game has changes quite dramatically in that time too.

Plus hes old.

[azabob]

Liam's a lovely guy, lucky football came along or he'd be washing car windscreens for change on an intersection somewhere.
I am worried about how a guy at 32 years of age will go back in a system after 18 months out. Really worried.

This sums up my thoughts exactly.

[hujsh]

Does it reek of desperation?

I am worried about the amount of time he's been out.

The game has changes quite dramatically in that time too.

Plus hes old.

I'll admit it does feel a bit Jed Adcocky.

[EasternWest]

To me this is a non-negotiable, and I trust that our medical team has done all the necessary due diligence on Jones from an injury/health perspective.

I'm less worried about him adapting back to the game as he was a very good reader of the play from D50 in any event. I think he makes us better and in an area of deficiency for us, which is all you can ask for a new recruit.


Does it reek of desperation? .

Nah I don't see it like that. It's an identified hole in our system being plugged by a guy that's proven to be able to fill it.

Agree mostly with what Sedat has said above, and I take on your other concerns as legitimate issues that we'll only find out about when he's back out there (or his calves start tearing).

[Twodogs]

Hawthorn took on a seemingly washed up Brian Lake at a similar age to plug a gap because they thought they were close and needed a key defender to bridge the gap between being close and helping them getting them over the line

Brian not only won 3 flags but was a Norm Smith medal.

[Rocco Jones]

I follow the NBA and I find it so weird we can be declarative about a deal without having any idea of what we are paying him. I see three years as excessive but perhaps the total financial outlay is quiet low.

It’s impossible to really judge if it’s a good call for mine without any idea of cap space he is taking.

[F'scary]

There's milions of places on the internet and even a wild ride of a thread here on WOOF where you can spout your cooked shit. Take it there.
As for cancel culture, it's merely a name given by a collective of people when their modus operandi was used against them.

Can you expand more on why you don't want to pick up Liam?



I'm not against getting him but so long out from the top level and being that he's getting older I think it's all cumulative.

Mate, because we have the opportunity to get a Pureblood. :cool:

[EasternWest]

Mate, because we have the opportunity to get a Pureblood. :cool:

Ha ha, now that's funny.

But I can't work out which way you want to go. Your original comment implied you didn't want him but this one does.

[Bullies]

I've always said that unless you are elite the game catches up with you super quick once you hit 31/32. Concerning that he has had a year out of the game as well. If it hasn't cost anything then have a crack but i wouldn't be overly confident he will be the answer down back. I would be more bullish if it was only a 2 year deal.

[Go_Dogs]

I’m all for it. At worst, it’s a spot we don’t draft at the back end, at best he’s a capable defender who fills our #2 KPD spot with aplomb and gets us back in the top 4 mix.

[F'scary]

Ha ha, now that's funny.

But I can't work out which way you want to go. Your original comment implied you didn't want him but this one does.

Nah, we need to recruit younger players. We are starting to fall into the top-up trap. I know we got into the grand final last season but I feel we need to build a bit to get another tilt.

[1eyedog]

Will easily be our best key defender next season.

[bornadog]

Nah, we need to recruit younger players. We are starting to fall into the top-up trap. I know we got into the grand final last season but I feel we need to build a bit to get another tilt.

We do need some tall young developing backman, but in the meantime, as they develop Jones can add something to our defence.

[Grantysghost]

Nah, we need to recruit younger players. We are starting to fall into the top-up trap. I know we got into the grand final last season but I feel we need to build a bit to get another tilt.

Yes agree in part, I don't think we are immune to damage in this sense like other clubs and hopefully Grant and co are smart enough to put the right protections in place.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I’m fine with adding Jones - it’s a real credit to him how he turned his career into a success with Carlton

Provided he’s motivated to be in shape I can see him being good for us - he became a good intercept mark

[Axe Man]

Nah, we need to recruit younger players. We are starting to fall into the top-up trap. I know we got into the grand final last season but I feel we need to build a bit to get another tilt.

We have not topped up at any stage in our recent history so I'm not sure how we are falling into a top up trap? We have continued to draft young players, along with some older recruits given we are in finals contention. We haven't actually done anything yet this offseason so still too early to judge.

[Mofra]

We have not topped up at any stage in our recent history so I'm not sure how we are falling into a top up trap? We have continued to draft young players, along with some older recruits given we are in finals contention. We haven't actually done anything yet this offseason so still too early to judge.
Keath & Bruce & Crozier & Martin & Hannan & Schache...

[bornadog]

Keath & Bruce & Crozier & Martin & Hannan & Schache...

Over how many years? Adding a player here and there, plus young players is smart.

[Axe Man]

Keath & Bruce & Crozier & Martin & Hannan & Schache...

Every club unless they are in full rebuild mode recruits established players. To me topping up is tipping the balance that way at the expense of going to the draft. We have continued to go to the draft (and through good fortune have brought in some top end talent recently). I clearly acknowledged we had brought in some older players as well so not sure what point you are trying to make anyway?

[Mofra]

Every club unless they are in full rebuild mode recruits established players. To me topping up is tipping the balance that way at the expense of going to the draft. We have continued to go to the draft (and through good fortune have brought in some top end talent recently). I clearly acknowledged we had brought in some older players as well so not sure what point you are trying to make anyway?
I was just noting a few players we've added during the years while still holding onto first rounders.
Had no idea you'd be so defensive.

[Mofra]

Over how many years? Adding a player here and there, plus young players is smart.
Exactly. We can add players and still hit the draft. I don't think we're anywhere near a Hawthorn style 'delay the inevitable' trade strategy, especially given the absolute free kicks we've been handed the last two years (Marra and Darcy) and possibly next year if reports on Jordan Croft are accurate.

[GVGjr]

Exactly. We can add players and still hit the draft. I don't think we're anywhere near a Hawthorn style 'delay the inevitable' trade strategy, especially given the absolute free kicks we've been handed the last two years (Marra and Darcy) and possibly next year if reports on Jordan Croft are accurate.

We've been pretty balanced along the journey and have just about always maintained 1st round picks will bringing in experienced players from over clubs from time to time. Over the last couple of years given our NGA and father son picks we have focused a bit more on players from the state leagues with mixed results in adding some experienced types.
Mixed results from that effort but that would be expected.

[Mofra]

We've been pretty balanced along the journey and have just about always maintained 1st round picks will bringing in experienced players from over clubs from time to time. Over the last couple of years given our NGA and father son picks we have focused a bit more on players from the state leagues with mixed results in adding some experienced types.
Mixed results from that effort but that would be expected.
I don't mind giving some state leaguers a chance - McNeill played SANFL and I still think he'll develop nicely. The Big O will lead Brisbane's ruck division this weekend after being plucked from the VFL.
I do wish we'd target 'needs' a little more with late speculative picks but that's a topic for a different thread.

[Axe Man]

I was just noting a few players we've added during the years while still holding onto first rounders.
Had no idea you'd be so defensive.

Sorry but the way you just listed players came across as you refuting my point rather than adding to it.

[mjp]

Every club unless they are in full rebuild mode recruits established players. To me topping up is tipping the balance that way at the expense of going to the draft. We have continued to go to the draft (and through good fortune have brought in some top end talent recently). I clearly acknowledged we had brought in some older players as well so not sure what point you are trying to make anyway?

We actually haven't been to the draft lately.

We have used all of our draft capital on 2x players and have a big hole in our list. We HAVE added quite a number of older players in recent times...

Yes, all clubs do it but I think problems occur when your OLDEST players are not automatic selections in the team. For us, we have a growing list of older players who are not guaranteed a game and I don't think that is representative of a healthy list.

I don't know Collingwood's list that well but if your ageing players are Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Elliot, I suspect that is a good position to be in...Our ageing players are Martin, Bruce, Crozier and O'Brien none of whom were first choice selections in the recent elimination final. That's bad. I just don't see recruiting a 30+ Jones straight out of footy in QLD and 18-months out of the AFL as anything other than a stop gap plan...

[bornadog]

"We have used all of our draft capital on 2x players"

Not really MJP

Last three Drafts

2019
Ryan Gardner
Cody Weightman
Louis Butler
Riley Garcia


2020
Jamarra Ugle-Hagan A
Dominic Bedendo
Lachlan McNeil


2021
Sam Darcy
Arthur Jones
Luke Cleary

Will Be 30 plus at start of 2023

Martin, Stefan
Duryea, Taylor
Keath, Alex
Liberatore, Thomas
Bruce, Josh
Wallis, Mitchell
Johannisen, Jason

Agree we have holes in list

[mjp]

"We have used all of our draft capital on 2x players"

Not really MJP.

Agree we have holes in list

Last 3x drafts we have picked Weightman, Ugle-Haden and Darcy and taken some fliers late in the draft.

You MUST make 3x changes each year so...

[bornadog]

Last 3x drafts we have picked Weightman, Ugle-Haden and Darcy and taken some fliers late in the draft.

You MUST make 3x changes each year so...

I think McNeil, Cleary and Garcia will be ok and Bedendo has shown something as well.

Anyway, I know what you are saying, but I think it was worth getting the Number 1 and two draft picks.

[Mofra]

I don't know Collingwood's list that well but if your ageing players are Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Elliot, I suspect that is a good position to be in...Our ageing players are Martin, Bruce, Crozier and O'Brien none of whom were first choice selections in the recent elimination final. That's bad. I just don't see recruiting a 30+ Jones straight out of footy in QLD and 18-months out of the AFL as anything other than a stop gap plan...
Fair cap difference between Collingwood's trio and our guys, of whom one is coming off an ACL and the other is more 'break glass' than required player. O'Brien has been a bust and Crozier declined rapidly after playing good football for us.

I suspect we'll be making more than 3 list changes this year - with retirements, delistings and trades we'll probably have our biggest turnover for some time.

[Axe Man]

We actually haven't been to the draft lately.

We have used all of our draft capital on 2x players and have a big hole in our list. We HAVE added quite a number of older players in recent times...

Yes, all clubs do it but I think problems occur when your OLDEST players are not automatic selections in the team. For us, we have a growing list of older players who are not guaranteed a game and I don't think that is representative of a healthy list.

I don't know Collingwood's list that well but if your ageing players are Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Elliot, I suspect that is a good position to be in...Our ageing players are Martin, Bruce, Crozier and O'Brien none of whom were first choice selections in the recent elimination final. That's bad. I just don't see recruiting a 30+ Jones straight out of footy in QLD and 18-months out of the AFL as anything other than a stop gap plan...

Your first 2 sentences are contradictory. We haven't been to the draft but we used all our draft capital on 2 players (which I acknowledged). I also mentioned we have added mature players. :confused:

As I said I don't classify our recent approach as topping up. We have done a little bit of both, brought in some mature players whilst still taking first round draft picks. Unless we were going to skip JUH or Darcy I'm not sure we could have done too much differently.

[Mofra]

As I said I don't classify our recent approach as topping up. We have done a little bit of both, brought in some mature players whilst still taking first round draft picks. Unless we were going to skip JUH or Darcy I'm not sure we could have done too much differently.
Marra was such a gift the AFL changed the rules to stop it happening again.
Darcy was responsible for 99% of our collective excitement late in the season.
Yes we have holes in the list but we should be celebrating the fact we brought a pick and a pick 2 into the club while we played in a GF one year, then made finals the next.

[Axe Man]

Liam Jones statement (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1221761/?fbclid=IwAR2imdX03cYJIqrPDKW80Y46DrtqwDtkTF-R0hqUb1F1p3yafwtgE70JQPo)

Liam Jones has nominated the Western Bulldogs as his preferred playing destination for the 2023 season.

After sitting out the 2022 AFL season, Jones was classified by the League as an Unrestricted Free Agent, allowing him to automatically move to the Club of his choice.

The Bulldogs will work with Jones and his management to facilitate a move within the trade and free agency period.

Jones made his debut for the Bulldogs in 2010, playing 66 games in the red, white and blue before moving to Carlton, where he played a further 95 games over seven seasons.

[GVGjr]

I hope Jones is prepared to put a lot of hard work in now to get ready for a big season.
He would have a lot of ground to make up.

[Bulldog4life]

Liam Jones statement (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1221761/?fbclid=IwAR2imdX03cYJIqrPDKW80Y46DrtqwDtkTF-R0hqUb1F1p3yafwtgE70JQPo)

Liam Jones has nominated the Western Bulldogs as his preferred playing destination for the 2023 season.

After sitting out the 2022 AFL season, Jones was classified by the League as an Unrestricted Free Agent, allowing him to automatically move to the Club of his choice.

The Bulldogs will work with Jones and his management to facilitate a move within the trade and free agency period.

Jones made his debut for the Bulldogs in 2010, playing 66 games in the red, white and blue before moving to Carlton, where he played a further 95 games over seven seasons.

34 games for father/son. Go Liam.

[Bulldog4life]

I hope Jones is prepared to put a lot of hard work in now to get ready for a big season.
He would have a lot of ground to make up.

He has started already. Waved his club up North goodbye a month or so back.

[GVGjr]

He has started already. Waved his club up North goodbye a month or so back.

Was that to make sure he didn't get injured or to start working with a personal trainer to get ready for a preseason?

[Grantysghost]

Have we ever had a player leave and return?

[Axe Man]

Have we ever had a player leave and return?

Monty comes to mind immediately. Tony Campbell returned but didn't play elsewhere in his absence. I'm sure there are others.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Have we ever had a player leave and return?

Robbie McGhie comes to mind, but only just. He came back briefly coming into the Royce Hart era.

[Grantysghost]

Monty comes to mind immediately. Tony Campbell returned but didn't play elsewhere in his absence. I'm sure there are others.

You guys have incredible memories!

[GVGjr]

Have we ever had a player leave and return?

There was a few from memory I'll have a bit of a check

Monty as Axe mentioned

Brad Hardie tried to return
Richard Osborne left us for the US and returned. Wheeler though it cost him his job.

[mjp]

Yes we have holes in the list but we should be celebrating the fact we brought a pick and a pick 2 into the club while we played in a GF one year, then made finals the next.

I have no issue with the selection of Jamarra and Darcy - it was good fortune of the highest order.

But for everyone proposing we trade away picks THIS YEAR, we really haven't drafted 'much' lately. We haven't and I just dont see how anyone can argue we have. In a 'normal year', we would have pick 13, pick 31 etc.

Last year we had 2, 43 and 61.
In 2020 it was 1 and 55.

We have selected talls - who take longer. And then been forced to take chances on late picks. For everyone saying 'Bedendo will be fine' etc, well, I hope he is. How many pick 55's make it though?

We haven't been to the draft much lately. We haven't. We need to get in some high end mids and running defenders. We DO. If we give up draft capital to get Lobb when we already have Naughton, Bruce, Jamarra and potentially Darcy as tall forwards, well, that's DUMB. We all talk about throwing around 2nd and 3rd round picks...well, that's more than we've had lately so hang onto them.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I have no issue with the selection of Jamarra and Darcy - it was good fortune of the highest order.

But for everyone proposing we trade away picks THIS YEAR, we really haven't drafted 'much' lately. We haven't and I just dont see how anyone can argue we have. In a 'normal year', we would have pick 13, pick 31 etc.

Last year we had 2, 43 and 61.
In 2020 it was 1 and 55.

We have selected talls - who take longer. And then been forced to take chances on late picks. For everyone saying 'Bedendo will be fine' etc, well, I hope he is. How many pick 55's make it though?

We haven't been to the draft much lately. We haven't. We need to get in some high end mids and running defenders. We DO. If we give up draft capital to get Lobb when we already have Naughton, Bruce, Jamarra and potentially Darcy as tall forwards, well, that's DUMB. We all talk about throwing around 2nd and 3rd round picks...well, that's more than we've had lately so hang onto them.

I agree with this post with extreme prejudice.

[GVGjr]

I have no issue with the selection of Jamarra and Darcy - it was good fortune of the highest order.

But for everyone proposing we trade away picks THIS YEAR, we really haven't drafted 'much' lately. We haven't and I just dont see how anyone can argue we have. In a 'normal year', we would have pick 13, pick 31 etc.

Last year we had 2, 43 and 61.
In 2020 it was 1 and 55.

We have selected talls - who take longer. And then been forced to take chances on late picks. For everyone saying 'Bedendo will be fine' etc, well, I hope he is. How many pick 55's make it though?

We haven't been to the draft much lately. We haven't. We need to get in some high end mids and running defenders. We DO. If we give up draft capital to get Lobb when we already have Naughton, Bruce, Jamarra and potentially Darcy as tall forwards, well, that's DUMB. We all talk about throwing around 2nd and 3rd round picks...well, that's more than we've had lately so hang onto them.

We needed Lobb more this year than we really do next year.
12 months back we knew Bruce was going to miss most of 2022, Ugle-Hagan wasn't showing much and Darcy missed a lot of the season with an injury which would delay his start of the 2022 season.
We also had the exciting Naughton and Schache who was having trouble putting in the form required.

Heading into 2023 we have seen some really good signs from Ugle-Hagan, Naughton kicked 50 goals, Darcy showed some talent and Bruce should return OK.
I get that we've committed to Lobb and he will upgrade that forward ruck position for us which we need but we can't over pay for him with a high draft pick.

Our needs are a mid, a key defender and a mid sized defender who can defend 1 v 1 but still be creative.
Later in the draft it's a ruckman and maybe another key defender.

[FrediKanoute]

We needed Lobb more this year than we really do next year.
12 months back we knew Bruce was going to miss most of 2022, Ugle-Hagan wasn't showing much and Darcy missed a lot of the season with an injury which would delay his start of the 2022 season.
We also had the exciting Naughton and Schache who was having trouble putting in the form required.

Heading into 2023 we have seen some really good signs from Ugle-Hagan, Naughton kicked 50 goals, Darcy showed some talent and Bruce should return OK.
I get that we've committed to Lobb and he will upgrade that forward ruck position for us which we need but we can't over pay for him with a high draft pick.

Our needs are a mid, a key defender and a mid sized defender who can defend 1 v 1 but still be creative.
Later in the draft it's a ruckman and maybe another key defender.

Agree with what you have said. I think we also need a crumbing small forward - love Cody, but he plays tall.

[soupman]

We haven't been to the draft much lately. We haven't. We need to get in some high end mids and running defenders. We DO. If we give up draft capital to get Lobb when we already have Naughton, Bruce, Jamarra and potentially Darcy as tall forwards, well, that's DUMB. We all talk about throwing around 2nd and 3rd round picks...well, that's more than we've had lately so hang onto them.

Agree with most of your post.

I am pro-Lobb though. Ruck forwards are super hard to find good ones of, especially ones who are genuinely good forwards. Lobb seems like he'll come to us for a reasonable contract and what I imagine is a second round pick. Agree missing out on using a pick 31 yet again is less than ideal but Lobb is worth the risk imo.

We are good enough to still compete with the top teams, Lobb helps fix a weakness (we lack any forwards with hurt factor once Naughton is shut down and in the majority of weeks where Weightman isn't firing), he gives us a viable backup/change up option in the ruck which we have been desperate for for years and takes the pressure off both JUH and Darcy having to immediately be impactful AFL players. I think those who say Darcy is good to go for this role are optimistic (dreamers?) and having one very promising key forward in the side in JUH is enough atm.

As for the second rounder, I definitely get the need to get talent onto the list but either we are trying to win or trying to "refresh". Jones and Lobb as recruits would indicate the former, and if we aren't splashing about our first rounders I think it's reasonable.

Besides, I think half our issue isn't the quality of player we are putting on the list but the type. We keep adding more and more undersized flankers with those late picks. I'm not saying these guys are easy to find with late picks, but we need a bunch of small forwards, key defenders, rucks and general defender types and they are all reasonably gettable with late/rookie picks. If we change the type of player we target, instead of going for roles we are already stacked in or for players with fairly low ceilings I think we give our list a much better shot at it.

[mjp]

Besides, I think half our issue isn't the quality of player we are putting on the list but the type.

I get the Lobb argument and you have made your case well...I think everyone knows I don't think Darcy is ready and wouldn't have selected him in the final...having 3x babes up in the forward line was never going to work when the pressure came...

With the section i have highlighted though, I think it is the opposite. If the players were 'BETTER' then there is no problem with them being small, flanker types. Hell, Liam Baker is a small, flanker type and I think we'd find a spot for him...the problem is that the players are either not ready 'YET' or never will be.

And this goes back to my point re the draft. Caleb Daniel 'fell' to pick 46 because of his size. Those picks 3rd round and on...they ALL have fleas. They are too small, too slow, too outside, too one dimensional etc. You kind of have to pick your poison. I don't know how to say it but it is as if we select the same player over and over again...how are Butler, McNeil and Scott different from one another?? I guess Scott is a bit 'tougher' but...I mean, what unique AFL ready skill do they show? None of them can really 'nail' a spot because they just aren't quite ready 'YET'. Will they get there? Who knows...everyone is on their own development journey!

If we pick earlier, we have a better chance of finding a player who can come in and impact. Compare Darcy to Arthur Jones. One pick 2 - misses 6 months, but makes an immediate impact. Jones in the 40's...MILES off it. MILES!! Again - can Jones make it? Of course...but it's not going to be in 2023!

Earlier picks - particularly mid sizers and smalls - can come in and help. They cost NOTHING.

[bornadog]

I get the Lobb argument and you have made your case well...I think everyone knows I don't think Darcy is ready and wouldn't have selected him in the final...having 3x babes up in the forward line was never going to work when the pressure came...

With the section i have highlighted though, I think it is the opposite. If the players were 'BETTER' then there is no problem with them being small, flanker types. Hell, Liam Baker is a small, flanker type and I think we'd find a spot for him...the problem is that the players are either not ready 'YET' or never will be.

And this goes back to my point re the draft. Caleb Daniel 'fell' to pick 46 because of his size. Those picks 3rd round and on...they ALL have fleas. They are too small, too slow, too outside, too one dimensional etc. You kind of have to pick your poison. I don't know how to say it but it is as if we select the same player over and over again...how are Butler, McNeil and Scott different from one another?? I guess Scott is a bit 'tougher' but...I mean, what unique AFL ready skill do they show? None of them can really 'nail' a spot because they just aren't quite ready 'YET'. Will they get there? Who knows...everyone is on their own development journey!

If we pick earlier, we have a better chance of finding a player who can come in and impact. Compare Darcy to Arthur Jones. One pick 2 - misses 6 months, but makes an immediate impact. Jones in the 40's...MILES off it. MILES!! Again - can Jones make it? Of course...but it's not going to be in 2023!

Earlier picks - particularly mid sizers and smalls - can come in and help. They cost NOTHING.

We will have some early picks for Dunkley and we should use them wisely. JJ should also give us some picks (not sure what).

[soupman]

JJ should also give us some picks (not sure what).

Since Jones counts as a free agent I think he'd gonna offset any "compensation" we get from JJ.

[bornadog]

Since Jones counts as a free agent I think he'd gonna offset any "compensation" we get from JJ.

Oh ok, I am not sure how it works

[soupman]

With the section i have highlighted though, I think it is the opposite. If the players were 'BETTER' then there is no problem with them being small, flanker types. Hell, Liam Baker is a small, flanker type and I think we'd find a spot for him...the problem is that the players are either not ready 'YET' or never will be.

And this goes back to my point re the draft. Caleb Daniel 'fell' to pick 46 because of his size. Those picks 3rd round and on...they ALL have fleas. They are too small, too slow, too outside, too one dimensional etc. You kind of have to pick your poison. I don't know how to say it but it is as if we select the same player over and over again...how are Butler, McNeil and Scott different from one another?? I guess Scott is a bit 'tougher' but...I mean, what unique AFL ready skill do they show? None of them can really 'nail' a spot because they just aren't quite ready 'YET'. Will they get there? Who knows...everyone is on their own development journey!

If we pick earlier, we have a better chance of finding a player who can come in and impact. Compare Darcy to Arthur Jones. One pick 2 - misses 6 months, but makes an immediate impact. Jones in the 40's...MILES off it. MILES!! Again - can Jones make it? Of course...but it's not going to be in 2023!

Earlier picks - particularly mid sizers and smalls - can come in and help. They cost NOTHING.

Agree.

Still think the types comes down to it though, we go for safe bets generally which are low reward good VFL types without elite AFL traits (ie. mostly undersized mids therefore flankers). I haven't done the analysis but to me it feels like with Dalrymple we tended to go with guys that had a/some AFL attributes but with major question marks over other parts of their game, post-Dal to me it seems like we have gone for guys with fewer weaknesses but fewer strengths.

Butler, McNeill and Scott are good examples in that they were all pretty close to the level required when drafted, but haven't really shown they can move beyond that level aside from looking more comfortable at AFL level. All three are just as likely to be picked in our best 22 now as they were when they first started with us.

I agree the better prospects are the higher picks but we aren't helping ourselves by looking for complete 6/10 guys with our many later picks instead of trying guys in positions of need that could be 3/10 or 8/10.

[Mofra]

Agree.

Still think the types comes down to it though, we go for safe bets generally which are low reward good VFL types without elite AFL traits (ie. mostly undersized mids therefore flankers). I haven't done the analysis but to me it feels like with Dalrymple we tended to go with guys that had a/some AFL attributes but with major question marks over other parts of their game, post-Dal to me it seems like we have gone for guys with fewer weaknesses but fewer strengths.

Butler, McNeill and Scott are good examples in that they were all pretty close to the level required when drafted, but haven't really shown they can move beyond that level aside from looking more comfortable at AFL level. All three are just as likely to be picked in our best 22 now as they were when they first started with us.

I agree the better prospects are the higher picks but we aren't helping ourselves by looking for complete 6/10 guys with our many later picks instead of trying guys in positions of need that could be 3/10 or 8/10.
I was just having a similar discussion on another, unnamed football based forum.
We lack a genuine small crumbing pressure forward... the type you don't really need a high draft pick to find, just looking at WA team lists:
Willie Rioli was pick 56, Zac Langdon pick 56, Liam Ryan a pick 26 but was drafted mature age, Isah Winder pick 57, Walters a pick 53, Frederick pick 61

We keep adding similar 'safe' types yet we could add a real 'something;' to the side by taking a chance with a late pick on the exact player we need. 50/50 to make it, but isn't that the case with late picks anyway? I really didn't think we take list needs into account enough with late picks, let alone rookie /PSD picks.

[hujsh]

Since Jones counts as a free agent I think he'd gonna offset any "compensation" we get from JJ.

Kinda BS if someone out of the game joining us on what must not be a high wage means any player we lost (lets say Bont) brings in no compensation. I wonder if the AFL will do that or just give Carlton a one off late pick to satisfy them?

Makes me very reluctant to bring Jones in if it means losing a decent pick (we need some IMO)

[Mofra]

Since Jones counts as a free agent I think he'd gonna offset any "compensation" we get from JJ.
I think JJ stays now Gold Coast have lured Ben Long there.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I think JJ stays now Gold Coast have lured Ben Long there.

That’s something I hadn’t considered Mofra

I figured they wanted both but you might be right

[bornadog]

I think JJ stays now Gold Coast have lured Ben Long there.

Didn't they want JJ for the backline?

[GVGjr]

Didn't they want JJ for the backline?

Ben has been playing there and I think that GC want a tough player in their back line.

[bornadog]

Ben has been playing there and I think that GC want a tough player in their back line.

I thought he was a forward

[hujsh]

I thought he was a forward

At footscray sure. Has been in defence for ages

[Mofra]

Didn't they want JJ for the backline?
Yes, but Ben Long seems to have jumped the queue.
They get 2-3 best 22 players back for 2024 off HB as well (Weller among them, and perhaps Swallow)

[Axe Man]

Yes, but Ben Long seems to have jumped the queue.
They get 2-3 best 22 players back for 2024 off HB as well (Weller among them, and perhaps Swallow)

Johannisen is firming to stay a Bulldog

Saint Ben Long’s decision to request a trade to Gold Coast on a four-year deal means 2016 Norm Smith medallist Jason Johannisen is firming to stay a Bulldog.

Johannisen, who turns 30 in November, was among the Suns’ options to replace injured half-back trio Lachie Weller, Wil Powell and Connor Budarick, who are all recovering from ACL tears.

He was keen for a three-year deal at Gold Coast but is no longer a priority for the Suns since Long’s commitment fills that defensive need.

The Dogs are understood to have presented Johannisen with a two-year offer that may now be his best option as negotiations continue.

Link (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/trade-hq/afl-trade-news-tanner-bruhn-to-cost-geelong-firstround-pick-latest-whispers/news-story/4ed6d397d062126cd5d72272f93b3ed9)

[MrMahatma]

Johannisen is firming to stay a Bulldog

Saint Ben Long’s decision to request a trade to Gold Coast on a four-year deal means 2016 Norm Smith medallist Jason Johannisen is firming to stay a Bulldog.

Johannisen, who turns 30 in November, was among the Suns’ options to replace injured half-back trio Lachie Weller, Wil Powell and Connor Budarick, who are all recovering from ACL tears.

He was keen for a three-year deal at Gold Coast but is no longer a priority for the Suns since Long’s commitment fills that defensive need.

The Dogs are understood to have presented Johannisen with a two-year offer that may now be his best option as negotiations continue.

Link (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/trade-hq/afl-trade-news-tanner-bruhn-to-cost-geelong-firstround-pick-latest-whispers/news-story/4ed6d397d062126cd5d72272f93b3ed9)

I'm happy with that.

Also, a bit of "forced" change wouldn't be horrible!

[kruder]

Yep I'm keen to keep JJ on the list.

[1eyedog]

He'll probably get a better deal elsewhere and I'd hope he takes it so we can secure a pick and replenish through the draft. JJ is cooked imo.

[F'scary]

Ben has been playing there and I think that GC want a tough player in their back line.

and they will get one with cement hands. Long needs a footy with a handle attached.

[Bulldog4life]

Looking forward to seeing Liam back with us.

[bulldogtragic]

Kind of less fun with Liam again, and Caleb ‘Premiership’ Daniel too.

I remember he thought dogs fans were ‘mean’ when he quit. I hope everyone is nicer now, with maturity and perspective through COVID.

[bulldogtragic]

What’s the sense? Liam back at the club officially this Friday?

[GVGjr]

What’s the sense? Liam back at the club officially this Friday?

It will happen later in window won't it? So that it doesn't impact any other deals.

[bulldogtragic]

It will happen later in window won't it? So that it doesn't impact any other deals.

Free agency opens Friday. Why would it wait? Is there an issue with list spots or salary?



“Liam Jones has nominated the Western Bulldogs as his preferred playing destination for the 2023 season.

After sitting out the 2022 AFL season, Jones was classified by the League as an Unrestricted Free Agent, allowing him to automatically move to the Club of his choice.

The Bulldogs will work with Jones and his management to facilitate a move within the trade and free agency period.”

[Jasper]

What is a realistic expectation for Jones next season? Can he get back close to his 2021 efforts?

[DOG GOD]

What is a realistic expectation for Jones next season? Can he get back close to his 2021 efforts?
Realistically he should play 22 games baring injury. Otherwise why get him.

[Swoop]

He has the ability to play on the opposition's best forward. His one on one numbers are elite which will help our backline immensely, especially with the way we defend the ground. I think we've been wanting to play 3 talls back but haven't had the mix right. Jones frees up Keath and Gardner, or whoever else we choose in that role to play on lesser players and have a greater influence.

If Jones allows Keath to recapture his 2021 form, than we'll be have a very formidable backline.

[GVGjr]

He has the ability to play on the opposition's best forward. His one on one numbers are elite which will help our backline immensely, especially with the way we defend the ground. I think we've been wanting to play 3 talls back but haven't had the mix right. Jones frees up Keath and Gardner, or whoever else we choose in that role to play on lesser players and have a greater influence.

If Jones allows Keath to recapture his 2021 form, than we'll be have a very formidable backline.

It could very well be a terrific pairing for us and have them supported by Gards.