Operation Get Brodie Grundy

[bornadog]

* Freo have indicated they will not release Lobb from his contract. We need a plan B, and it ain't Sweet or Martin and what happens if English is injued?

* Collingwood are willing to let Grundy go due to salary cap.

Why not convince Grundy to come to the Dogs and work with making English a better player by sharing ruck duties.

We have a good culture, we are building the best facilities in the AFL and Grundy gets to play with Bont

Cost

Dunkley first round pick to Collingwood? Do we need more?

Salary

He is reported to be on a million - Collingwood pay say $300k, we pay Grundy the money we were going to pay Dunkley

Some woofers are already on board - can we make it happen?


McStay to Pies
Dunkley to Lions
Grundy to us

That’ll be whatever Sam Power’s annual salary is thank you.



2 x All Australian
2 x B&F


He's a gun.

Is this a pipe dream or can Sam make it happen?

How will we play them on field? I would like to see eventually 50/50, but start with 65 Grundy, 35 English

[MrMahatma]

I'm 1000000000000% on board. Even more to be honest.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I'm 1000000000000% on board. Even more to be honest.

I am 20000000000000000000% on board

[Sedat]

I'm of course 100% all chips in, provided Grundy passes a medical with flying colours.

I can't see it happening though. We are seemingly totally wedded to English as the big dog, and are looking at options to strengthen the 10% 2nd ruck load.

[Happy Days]

Yep this is definitely the move. Tim’s ruckwork let us down when it mattered the most yet again and we have to ensure it’s for the last time. He has all the tools and hopefully he can see that this will allow him to be the Swiss Army knife killer of a player that he has the potential to be.

Plus there’s no shot that a player like Grundy doesn’t make us significantly better.

We’ve got a resource (Dunkley) to get the deal done, it makes all the sense in the world, yet for whatever reason we want to cut our nose off. I am pleading with the club to pivot and make this happen.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm of course 100% all chips in, provided Grundy passes a medical with flying colours.

I can't see it happening though. We are seemingly totally wedded to English as the big dog, and are looking at options to strengthen the 10% 2nd ruck load.

Unfortunately spot on.

It's kind of ironic that we're searching to fill the second ruck spot, when we've got the PERFECT candidate for that role on our list, while one of the best rucks of the modern era is available at an attractive cost.....

[bornadog]

I'm of course 100% all chips in, provided Grundy passes a medical with flying colours.

I can't see it happening though. We are seemingly totally wedded to English as the big dog, and are looking at options to strengthen the 10% 2nd ruck load.


Unfortunately spot on.

It's kind of ironic that we're searching to fill the second ruck spot, when we've got the PERFECT candidate for that role on our list, while one of the best rucks of the modern era is available at an attractive cost.....

Let's talk positive, even though it may not eventuate.

How do we get the deal done?

* What picks would Collingwood want?

* How much of his $1 million would you pay?

* Would Grundy even want to come to us? I mean he would be second string at Melbourne with Gawn there. For me if Melbourne think they can make it work, then we should be able to by appeasing both Grundy and English.

[jeemak]

I was early on this bandwagon and if Tim wanted to crack the shits as the best second ruck in the competition he'd be the one cutting his nose off to spite his face, as his next contract will reflect his performance.

One can dream I guess....

[bornadog]

I was early on this bandwagon and if Tim wanted to crack the shits as the best second ruck in the competition he'd be the one cutting his nose off to spite his face, as his next contract will reflect his performance.

One can dream I guess....

I don't believe the Tim thing and cracking the shits - too bad I say to any player not listening to the coach.

Rocket told a good story about Lake. We were in Perth to play WCE and Lake said he wanted to play FF or he just wouldn't play. Rocket of course was angry and Lake refused to budge, so Rocket relented and said ok then.

They got on the ground and Lake was at FF. After about 5 min Rocket sends out the runner and moves Lake to FB :D

[Mofra]

I doubt we're in the hunt - I'd be all over Soldo if Richmond decide that (unlike last year) he's gettable.

[bornadog]

I doubt we're in the hunt - I'd be all over Soldo if Richmond decide that (unlike last year) he's gettable.

What pick for Soldo?

[hujsh]

I don't believe the Tim thing and cracking the shits - too bad I say to any player not listening to the coach.

Rocket told a good story about Lake. We were in Perth to play WCE and Lake said he wanted to play FF or he just wouldn't play. Rocket of course was angry and Lake refused to budge, so Rocket relented and said ok then.

They got on the ground and Lake was at FF. After about 5 min Rocket sends out the runner and moves Lake to FB :D

If I recall correctly it was that Brian was saying he was too injured/sore. So Rocket said something along the lines of 'that's too bad we were going to play you forward' and Brian was suddenly fit to play. Then the rest is as you say.

[azabob]

BAD what has prompted this change in thinking?

Less than 24 hours ago you said you wouldn't engage in anymore discussion that involved English not being a first ruck.

Now you have started a thread on Get Brody Grundy.

[bornadog]

BAD what has prompted this change in thinking?

Not a change of thinking at all. I acknowledge we need another ruckman on the list, someone that will make an impact


Less than 24 hours ago you said you wouldn't engage in anymore discussion that involved English not being a first ruck.

No I said I wouldn't engage in commenting or arguing with posters that bag English. Very tiresome to read the same over and over. However, I do respect everyone's opinion.


Now you have started a thread on Get Brody Grundy.

Lobb deal is looking like not happening? What is the alternative? Go for the best and see where it gets us.

[DOG GOD]

Is English holding MC to ransom so to speak ? If not, surely Bevo can see he is NOT a #1, so should be putting in processes to make him #2 and GET a #1.

It won’t happen so I’m not even going to dream about someone like Grundy.

[bornadog]

If I recall correctly it was that Brian was saying he was too injured/sore. So Rocket said something along the lines of 'that's too bad we were going to play you forward' and Brian was suddenly fit to play. Then the rest is as you say.

Yeah, I think you are right. cheers

[dog town]

English playing for our club depends on him being first ruck, whether that’s acceptable from a player or not is irrelevant to the discussion at this point. He will either go to another club to be first ruck as soon as he can or he stays with us and we move forward finding a different path to support him.

My view is we have 3-4 glaring holes in our team that have had more impact in 2022 than our ruck situation which makes getting Grundy an enormous risk. I would prefer we address other areas particularly if we can find some forward/ruck support that’s cheaper than Grundy. Using trade/draft capital on Grundy would limit our ability to address other issues and potentially cost us English anyway in a year or two.

[josie]

Having English and Grundy both playing would help us tremendously eg a tall down the line who can actually mark and provide a good target, ability to float back and help out (think Scotty Wynd) and go forward if we have an injury or if we send Naughts back to support an oppo run on.

If we can afford it and if our young players like Bedendo and Cleary and Khamis can blossom and give us a bit more leg speed to me it makes a lot of sense. If one of Grundy or English is bring monstered in the ruck they can swap, if English is ok in middle and Grundy better for throw ins around the ground that’s ok as both are agile big men who are pretty good at ground level….it gives us so much flexibility.

[bornadog]

Using trade/draft capital on Grundy would limit our ability to address other issues and potentially cost us English anyway in a year or two.

If we use the Dunkley trade picks, then it could work. Of course we need to plug other holes, but we can do that with our picks.

[dog town]

If we use the Dunkley trade picks, then it could work. Of course we need to plug other holes, but we can do that with our picks. We would be replacing English in a years time as well in my opinion.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We would be replacing English in a years time as well in my opinion.

Is that meant to be a deterrent? ;)

Most of us think English is a real talent, but it's not as first ruck. I can think of far worse scenarios than English leaving, to be brutally honest.

[jeemak]

We would be replacing English in a years time as well in my opinion.

There's no way of telling how long his contract is, it's just guess work, but I reckon we'd be able to keep him for two years and he would have to play well in order to land the big deal he'll want to be landing when the two years is done.

[azabob]

I was early on this bandwagon and if Tim wanted to crack the shits as the best second ruck in the competition he'd be the one cutting his nose off to spite his face, as his next contract will reflect his performance.

One can dream I guess....

Dare I say the first one to suggest it?

[Mofra]

English playing for our club depends on him being first ruck, whether that’s acceptable from a player or not is irrelevant to the discussion at this point. He will either go to another club to be first ruck as soon as he can or he stays with us and we move forward finding a different path to support him.
Do we actually know he'd sulk if he wasn't?

Hypothetically Lobb falls though and we end up with a ruck type that means English plays 60/40 or 50/50, he may actually get through a whole season... something he has yet to achieve.

[jeemak]

Dare I say the first one to suggest it?

Nope, I think I was an early adopter but fleshed out how it might work in conjunction with our need to offer opportunities to young talls coming through our system.

[dog town]

Is that meant to be a deterrent? ;)

Most of us think English is a real talent, but it's not as first ruck. I can think of far worse scenarios than English leaving, to be brutally honest. That’s ok then but that’s a different conversation and one the club clearly isn’t entertaining.

To be clear if I had my choice English as a forward and a new ruck would be great, I thought we missed English forward more than we missed having a gun ruck. I just don’t think it’s realistic given the stance from English to do both. It’s probably the reason we have gone the Lobb path.

[dog town]

Do we actually know he'd sulk if he wasn't?

Hypothetically Lobb falls though and we end up with a ruck type that means English plays 60/40 or 50/50, he may actually get through a whole season... something he has yet to achieve.
If you watch the press conferences every week Bevo always finds a way to give a nod towards what’s happening behind closed doors. I have a pretty well placed source that has confirmed this as well. Not so much that he would sulk but he would take the opportunity to find a club where he can be number 1 ruck.

In fairness to Tim he has often mentioned how important the rucking is to him as well.

[Grantysghost]

Do we actually know he'd sulk if he wasn't?

Hypothetically Lobb falls though and we end up with a ruck type that means English plays 60/40 or 50/50, he may actually get through a whole season... something he has yet to achieve.

Exactly, it's anecdotal and completely unconfirmed.

Yet it's taken as gospel.

Personally I can't believe it to be the case.

He seems like an incredibly reasonable human.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I’m conflicted here. 12 months ago I would have jumped at Grundy. Now 12 months on and two pre seasons I think Tim is ready to explode and be a real handful. With the addition of Darcy snd Bruce back from the ACL. I think we would be far better in looking for An elite crumbing forward. This would free up West to move into the Baz or Dunkley role. And we really need another Dale Morris type as this would free up Daniel to move to the wing. I recon this would suit us better as we have midfielders on every line. Daniel would tealy be a weapon delivering into the forward 50.

[jeemak]

Exactly, it's anecdotal and completely unconfirmed.

Yet it's taken as gospel.

Personally I can't believe it to be the case.

He seems like an incredibly reasonable human.

It's been put into writing post a comment from his management that Tim was concerned about not being first ruck, and Bevo has at least twice affirmed sternly in the media that Tim is considered our first ruck.

Of course nobody's saying it directly in plain language, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

[Grantysghost]

It's been put into writing post a comment from his management that Tim was concerned about not being first ruck, and Bevo has at least twice affirmed sternly in the media that Tim is considered our first ruck.

Of course nobody's saying it directly in plain language, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

Do you think it's true?

[dog town]

It's been put into writing post a comment from his management that Tim was concerned about not being first ruck, and Bevo has at least twice affirmed sternly in the media that Tim is considered our first ruck.

Of course nobody's saying it directly in plain language, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. I think in some ways the stance from English scuttled our season rightly or wrongly. I think most people can see his value as a forward but it is extremely clear that rucking English was considered a non negotiable. We spent the entire pre-season getting Sweet/Martin trained up as forwards, Martin lost weight for it even.

[jeemak]

I think in some ways the stance from English scuttled our season rightly or wrongly. I think most people can see his value as a forward but it is extremely clear that rucking English was considered a non negotiable. We spent the entire pre-season getting Sweet/Martin trained up as forwards, Martin lost weight for it even.

I don't understand why he doesn't like banging through sausage rolls and going easy on his body! It boggles the mind.

Being the best player in the competition in literally the hardest position to fill on a list should be something that's appealing to him. You have more impact as a forward that kicks goals and rucks competently, rather than being a ruck that's incompetent against the best and isn't impacting the scoreboard as regularly.

[dog town]

I don't understand why he doesn't like banging through sausage rolls and going easy on his body! It boggles the mind.

Being the best player in the competition in literally the hardest position to fill on a list should be something that's appealing to him. You have more impact as a forward that kicks goals and rucks competently, rather than being a ruck that's incompetent against the best and isn't impacting the scoreboard as regularly. I agree with this, he actually looked like he enjoyed not worrying about rucking early in 2021.

Take it to the bank that rucking is important to him though however irrational it seems. Not sure we can take a punt on him changing his mind and if we wanted to trade him out to use his value on an alternative we wouldn’t have resigned him.

[Rocket Science]

The mind hazily harks back to that brief golden age in the early throes of season '21 when our forward line seemed transformed and for a magical, fleeting moment nigh on unstoppable - and English was pivotal as a mobile 3rd tall target ... Because you can plonk your best key defender on a then in-form Bruce, and task another two or three with impeding Naughton's run and jump, but what've you got left to defend this bloke? It was lethal and beautiful.

If we can reprise that by anteing at the coalface with someone of Grundy's calibre and convince Tim of the collective benefits of more hang time forward, then sign me up please and thank you.

[bornadog]

The mind hazily harks back to that brief golden age in the early throes of season '21 when our forward line seemed transformed and for a magical, fleeting moment nigh on unstoppable - and English was pivotal as a mobile 3rd tall target ... Because you can plonk your best key defender on a then in-form Bruce, and task another two or three with impeding Naughton's run and jump, but what've you got left to defend this bloke? It was lethal and beautiful.

If we can reprise that by anteing at the coalface with someone of Grundy's calibre and convince Tim of the collective benefits of more hang time forward, then sign me up please and thank you.

I missed your posts RS - don't disappear again

[jeemak]

Yeah welcome back RS.

[EasternWest]

The mind hazily harks back to that brief golden age in the early throes of season '21 when our forward line seemed transformed and for a magical, fleeting moment nigh on unstoppable - and English was pivotal as a mobile 3rd tall target ... Because you can plonk your best key defender on a then in-form Bruce, and task another two or three with impeding Naughton's run and jump, but what've you got left to defend this bloke? It was lethal and beautiful.

If we can reprise that by anteing at the coalface with someone of Grundy's calibre and convince Tim of the collective benefits of more hang time forward, then sign me up please and thank you.

Rocket! My man.

[Vred]

I've been on the Get Grundy train since it was announced Collingwood would let him go.

Lets get it done Power.

[DOG GOD]

If Bevo thinks rucking English as #1 is in the best interest of the team, then nothing will change…unfortunately.

[Happy Days]

Bump. All the pieces are in place now except us actually coming to our senses and declaring an interest.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Bump. All the pieces are in place now except us actually coming to our senses and declaring an interest.

We live in hope.

[Topdog]

Bevo and the Dogs should do what is best for the Bulldogs.
If true that English demands to play as 1st ruck and Bevo and the MC dont think he is good enough for that we should entertain offers for him.

[MrMahatma]

Bevo and the Dogs should do what is best for the Bulldogs.
If true that English demands to play as 1st ruck and Bevo and the MC dont think he is good enough for that we should entertain offers for him.

There’s just no way known this is what happens. Do we really think English said “I’m #1 ruck or I’m gone”. And Bevo said “Well, you’re not good enough to be a #1 ruck but ok… I’ll play you there”.

There’s so much commentary on here that Bevo is stubborn and people say we need a senior assistant to challenge him. But people think a player is going to dictate terms if Bevo doesn’t think he’s up to it? Please…

Bevo and the MC rate Tim. I do too for that matter.

I do also 100% think we should chase Grundy though.

[Topdog]

There’s just no way known this is what happens. Do we really think English said “I’m #1 ruck or I’m gone”. And Bevo said “Well, you’re not good enough to be a #1 ruck but ok… I’ll play you there”.

There’s so much commentary on here that Bevo is stubborn and people say we need a senior assistant to challenge him. But people think a player is going to dictate terms if Bevo doesn’t think he’s up to it? Please…

Bevo and the MC rate Tim. I do too for that matter.

I do also 100% think we should chase Grundy though.

Yeah fully agree, I can't see how Bevo is suddenly dominated by English but literally no other player.

Was more just commentating on how the club should just do what we believe is best for the Bulldogs, not for any 1 player.

[bulldogtragic]

One year away from footy and nothing changes it seems. I’d throw everything at this. I’ve only watched the last 2.5 quarters of footy this year. So my last four quarters I’ve seen us down 150 points. My reading might be wrong missing 22.5 games, but winning the ruck might be a good thing every now and then. Maybe.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

One year away from footy and nothing changes it seems. I’d throw everything at this. I’ve only watched the last 2.5 quarters of footy this year. So my last four quarters I’ve seen us down 150 points. My reading might be wrong missing 22.5 games, but winning the ruck might be a good thing every now and then. Maybe.

Welcome back, mate.

Just in time too!

[bulldogtragic]

Welcome back, mate.

Just in time too!

This is an amazing opportunity. Dunkley is a jet. But if Power does this right, I might watch footy again next year.

[chef]

Isn't Grundy to Melbourne already being worked on by all parties?

[Happy Days]

One year away from footy and nothing changes it seems. I’d throw everything at this. I’ve only watched the last 2.5 quarters of footy this year. So my last four quarters I’ve seen us down 150 points. My reading might be wrong missing 22.5 games, but winning the ruck might be a good thing every now and then. Maybe.

Now this is the juice we needed.

[Happy Days]

Isn't Grundy to Melbourne already being worked on by all parties?

We were working on a premiership last year til Melbourne blew it up. So let’s blow it up for them.

I can’t believe that any player would honestly want to risk getting king hit at a steak dinner over coming and playing for us if there’s two offers on the table anyway.

[bulldogtragic]

Isn't Grundy to Melbourne already being worked on by all parties?

No idea. But we could offer a better trade to Collingwood. If English is prepared to be a better version of Lobb, it works.

My initial take is there’s two options:

Trade Dunkley and rebuild the list at the draft.

Trade Dunkley and get aggressive at the table.

Anything else is a commitment to St Kilda like mid level mediocrity. *!*!*!*! that.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

This is an amazing opportunity. Dunkley is a jet. But if Power does this right, I might watch footy again next year.

You mean. When Power does his job. He has done well so far. I’m sure things will go our way once again.

[bornadog]

Isn't Grundy to Melbourne already being worked on by all parties?

Does Grundy want to be second fiddle to Gawn?

[bulldogtragic]

You mean. When Power does his job. He has done well so far. I’m sure things will go our way once again.

He did well with Brisbane on the Adams trade. He extracted an extra future third rounder (they promised would not be added) that allowed us to secure Bruce & Keath without sacrificing the pick used on Weightman the next year. The pressure is again on them getting such a request. I think there’s a good opportunity here if the midfield unit can cover the loss of Dunkley. Sure I haven’t watched recent footy, but it seems to represent a huge opportunity on paper.

[azabob]

Honestly I'm not sure why Collingwood are looking to move Grundy on. He plays on the weekend and they win the game.

To tempt Collingwood we would need to offer to pick up his full salary. Would we be willing to do this?

Taking on his entire salary lessons what we'd need to give up draft pick wise.

[Topdog]

I'm OK to push for Grundy but I honestly felt like he was playing quite poorly before the long injury and had laughed at his contract compared to his output.

[Topdog]

He did well with Brisbane on the Adams trade. He extracted an extra future third rounder (they promised would not be added) that allowed us to secure Bruce & Keath without sacrificing the pick used on Weightman the next year. r.

Yep and Brisbane did really well on that too. They traded their future 1st for 2019 which ended up being pick 17 for pick 19, a future 2nd and a future 3rd. That future 2nd from Gold Coast ended up as pick 23 :D

[Bulldog4life]

One year away from footy and nothing changes it seems. I’d throw everything at this. I’ve only watched the last 2.5 quarters of footy this year. So my last four quarters I’ve seen us down 150 points. My reading might be wrong missing 22.5 games, but winning the ruck might be a good thing every now and then. Maybe.

Welcome back BT just when we need you. You're superman.

[chef]

Does Grundy want to be second fiddle to Gawn?

They'll both be on the ground at the same time, same as with Jackson.

I wish we were chasing Grundy, but hes off to Melbourne and we are chasing Lobb anyway.

[Hot_Doggies]

Chasing Grundy is crazy talk. Our window isn’t open and Grundy would cost picks and a heap of cash.

We need youth, at least five draftees every year for the next three years.

-Speed and skill in the midfield first priority.
-developing KPD x2
-live wire small forward.

[MrMahatma]

Chasing Grundy is crazy talk. Our window isn’t open and Grundy would cost picks and a heap of cash.

We need youth, at least five draftees every year for the next three years.

-Speed and skill in the midfield first priority.
-developing KPD x2
-live wire small forward.

I'm curious. What is it about the team that made the GF last year, and finals this year, makes you think our window isn't open?

[F'scary]

I'm curious. What is it about the team that made the GF last year, and finals this year, makes you think our window isn't open?

I'm cutting in on their answer, but I would say one word: trajectory.

[Axe Man]

I'm cutting in on their answer, but I would say one word: trajectory.

Melbourne had a shocker in 2019 and were average in 2020, turned out to be a blip. Collingwood had a down year last year and have bounced straight back up. Trajectories often aren't linear.

[Bulldog Joe]

Melbourne had a shocker in 2019 and were average in 2020, turned out to be a blip. Collingwood had a down year last year and have bounced straight back up. Trajectories often aren't linear.

I'd say trajectories are NEVER linear.

[Grantysghost]

Melbourne had a shocker in 2019 and were average in 2020, turned out to be a blip. Collingwood had a down year last year and have bounced straight back up. Trajectories often aren't linear.

Was it a blip?

They were good in a fake season for mine.

This year a real season again left wanting.

Remember they played that last game in 2021 at Geelong with 0 fans.

You can not seriously say it's a fair season.

[bornadog]

Was it a blip?

They were good in a fake season for mine.

This year a real season again left wanting.

Remember they played that last game in 2021 at Geelong with 0 fans.

You can not seriously say it's a fair season.

Melbourne should also be having a review on where things went wrong. One more final than us and bundled out as well.

[GVGjr]

Melbourne should also be having a review on where things went wrong. One more final than us and bundled out as well.

They had a good season though particularly early. They got going but fell away.

[Axe Man]

Was it a blip?

They were good in a fake season for mine.

This year a real season again left wanting.

Remember they played that last game in 2021 at Geelong with 0 fans.

You can not seriously say it's a fair season.

That pretty much misses my point entirely.

They made a prelim in 2018 and were awful the next year - that's a downward trajectory. They then improved a little in 2020 and were excellent in 2021, fake season or not.

All I'm saying is just because our performance this season fell away it doesn't mean it will continue to fall away in 2023. Doesn't mean it won't either, but teams rarely rise or fall in straight lines.

[Grantysghost]

That pretty much misses my point entirely.

They made a prelim in 2018 and were awful the next year - that's a downward trajectory. They then improved a little in 2020 and were excellent in 2021, fake season or not.

All I'm saying is just because our performance this season fell away it doesn't mean it will continue to fall away in 2023. Doesn't mean it won't either, but teams rarely rise or fall in straight lines.

Relax.

2017 how did they go?

You can pick and choose all you like I would say without Jackson who was one of the big drivers of success and taking into account their history you can predict their future.
Not sure what I'm missing. Maybe explain it like I'm not from the big city ;)

Our form has nothing to do with theirs and you need to at least show our history since 2015.

[F'scary]

That pretty much misses my point entirely.

They made a prelim in 2018 and were awful the next year - that's a downward trajectory. They then improved a little in 2020 and were excellent in 2021, fake season or not.

All I'm saying is just because our performance this season fell away it doesn't mean it will continue to fall away in 2023. Doesn't mean it won't either, but teams rarely rise or fall in straight lines.

We all hope you are correct.

[bornadog]

Come on down, Lobb too difficult to get

[GVGjr]

Come on down, Lobb too difficult to get
Sounding that way but it all depends what they need for Jackson

[bulldogtragic]

I still maintain (that while we won’t get his signature) we should be tabling an offer to Grundy. If we can run interference here, Melbourne would likely make the deal two firsts and Lobb. So they have to trade Lobb. Once Lobb is on the table, in the discussions, then we can get to where he goes to and for what.

Both look to be second rounders plus another later pick. I could live with either. But sitting around waiting for other clubs to make decisions while we are passive makes little sense. If we can disrupt things just enough, that we could endanger the Jackson trade (pursuing Grundy, necessitating Lobb to Dees), it makes sense for Freo to cut the bullshit get fair fair value for Lobb and get Jackson relatively smoothly.

I’m hoping we are far more active in the background than just waiting on Brisbane, being stonewalled by Freo and awaiting Hunter, Cordy and others desired destinations to see how we respond. There seems to be some gettable decent players out there, for which we will have picks and cash to deal. Now is the perfect time to be bold.

[azabob]

I still maintain (that while we won’t get his signature) we should be tabling an offer to Grundy. If we can run interference here, Melbourne would likely make the deal two firsts and Lobb. So they have to trade Lobb. Once Lobb is on the table, in the discussions, then we can get to where he goes to and for what.



This is all becoming too easy for Melbourne.

Grundy is also willing to take a reduced salary...

So to recap; Melbourne get Grundy for a top 25 pick, Collingwood to pick up some of his salary and now Grundy willing to take a pay cut.

FMD; Melbourne are savvy off field.

[GVGjr]

This is all becoming too easy for Melbourne.

Grundy is also willing to take a reduced salary...

So to recap; Melbourne get Grundy for a top 25 pick, Collingwood to pick up some of his salary and now Grundy willing to take a pay cut.

FMD; Melbourne are savvy off field.

They've done well. Time will tell if they can make the 2 premium ruckman option work.

[Vred]

They've done well. Time will tell if they can make the 2 premium ruckman option work.

With their forward line, doubt it.

[Grantysghost]

They've done well. Time will tell if they can make the 2 premium ruckman option work.

Grundy is a risk too has been injured for a long time.

I can't see why they are entertaining this to be honest.

When they brought in Pruess I thought they were crazy, now they've gone for an expensive version.

[Topdog]

Grundy is a big risk, he looked really really poor before his injury and it was a big injury too.

Its a risk worth taking for Melbourne though.

[MrMahatma]

Grundy is a big risk, he looked really really poor before his injury and it was a big injury too.

Its a risk worth taking for Melbourne though.

Risk worth taking for us too I reckon.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I find it hard to believe the whole league is just letting a 2 time all Australian ruckman walk to Melbourne, who won the flag last year, without at least asking the question.

[bulldogtragic]

Collingwood adamant Melbourne’s pick 27 isn’t enough, needs to be around 20. Melbourne say they’re unwilling to move.

Should we try to shake things up, since Collingwood must move him for cap reasons? Throw in a late offer and move Dunkley’s rejected wage into paying Grundy?

Say Pick 21 if we had in a pick swap with Brisbane, offering that? Or swap Pick 11 for Wood’s Pick 16? Or Brisbane’s future first?

It probably still gets done with Dees, but is it worth asking the question? It’s not a massive trade cost, would devastate Dees plans for 2023.

[Happy Days]

Yes we should. No we won’t. Because we just love finishing 7th.

[Grantysghost]

Yes we should. No we won’t. Because we just love finishing 7th.

I am beyond flabbergasted that we are entertaining giving Martin another season.

Can anyone make sense of that. Don't go for Grundy, keep Martin. It's the Bizarro world.

[jeemak]

Is Chris Bell in charge of list rehabilitation?

[Happy Days]

Is Chris Bell in charge of list rehabilitation?

Depends, do we like him?

[bulldogtragic]

I am beyond flabbergasted that we are entertaining giving Martin another season.

Can anyone make sense of that. Don't go for Grundy, keep Martin. It's the Bizarro world.

The added flexibility too.

With the bench going to 23 you can play two First Rucks, some clubs already preparing for it. So Tim is still happy, he’s still a FR.

Rucks: English, Grundy, (Lobb if needed), Sweet
Forwards: Naughton (50+ goals this year), Lobb (36 goals this year), Bruce (48 in 2021), Marra
Backs: Jones, Keath, Gardner, Darcy

We have the trade capital (which isn’t much), we have the salary cap space. Treloar fell over everywhere else too and found his way to us at the last minute...

Spiting Melbourne is enough for me.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I am beyond flabbergasted that we are entertaining giving Martin another season.

Can anyone make sense of that. Don't go for Grundy, keep Martin. It's the Bizarro world.

Same here. This off-season feels like a carbon copy of last year and I was beyond livid with that one. If we simply let Dunkley go, recruit Jones and maybe Lobb, I'll be extremely disappointed. Feels like we're treading water above a whirlpool. We should be gunning for a flag. Words cannot express how frustrated, shocked and disappointed I am with our list management.

[jeemak]

Depends, do we like him?

Dunno if we like him.....maybe I'm being to cryptic.

[MrMahatma]

Is Chris Bell in charge of list rehabilitation?

Taking a conservative approach?

[MrMahatma]

It’s madness we aren’t up in Grundy’s grill.

I don’t care what the pick numbers are, but if we could:
- In: Lobb, Grundy, Lions future 1st rd.
- out: Dunks, pick 21 (or whatever we get for this year from Lions) our 2nd this year (30?)
Still keep our first this year and next. And with Jones in… Surely that makes us a much better team next year?

[jeemak]

Taking a conservative approach?

You're obviously very clever and witty like me.

[hujsh]

I get the media has decided that a second ruck is the best way to use the 5 man bench but what exactly is the plan if a mid has to come off with concussion protocols? Is it really better to have a ruck sitting on the bench 50% of the game than to have a mid get less game time but be ready to preserve the rotations etc?

[bornadog]

Collingwood adamant Melbourne’s pick 27 isn’t enough, needs to be around 20. Melbourne say they’re unwilling to move.

Should we try to shake things up, since Collingwood must move him for cap reasons? Throw in a late offer and move Dunkley’s rejected wage into paying Grundy?

Say Pick 21 if we had in a pick swap with Brisbane, offering that? Or swap Pick 11 for Wood’s Pick 16? Or Brisbane’s future first?

It probably still gets done with Dees, but is it worth asking the question? It’s not a massive trade cost, would devastate Dees plans for 2023.

Go for it

[bulldogtragic]

I get the media has decided that a second ruck is the best way to use the 5 man bench but what exactly is the plan if a mid has to come off with concussion protocols? Is it really better to have a ruck sitting on the bench 50% of the game than to have a mid get less game time but be ready to preserve the rotations etc?

Depends if the club has gun midfielders playing out of position to fit them all in, in say a forward flank? That team would just move a tall forward, and a midfielder back into the guts.

But that’s a really good thread of its own. Interesting strategy philosophy.

[GVGjr]

I am beyond flabbergasted that we are entertaining giving Martin another season.

Can anyone make sense of that. Don't go for Grundy, keep Martin. It's the Bizarro world.

The warning signs were there at the end of 2021 and we didn't identify a replacement. 12 months later he is still on the list and we aren't being linked with any ruckman (Lobb is a forward who rucks) so is it a reflection on how we review the position or is it something else?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Same here. This off-season feels like a carbon copy of last year and I was beyond livid with that one. If we simply let Dunkley go, recruit Jones and maybe Lobb, I'll be extremely disappointed. Feels like we're treading water above a whirlpool. We should be gunning for a flag. Words cannot express how frustrated, shocked and disappointed I am with our list management.
Me too. Just bewildered and pissed off.

[1eyedog]

The warning signs were there at the end of 2021 and we didn't identify a replacement. 12 months later he is still on the list and we aren't being linked with any ruckman (Lobb is a forward who rucks) so is it a reflection on how we review the position or is it something else?

Tim is our ruckman and Lobb is our support. That is the start and end of it and nothing we have done over the past two seasons suggests otherwise.

All our eggs are in the Tim basket end of story and he'll probably absolutely crush it this year.

[Happy Days]

Tim is our ruckman and Lobb is our support. That is the start and end of it and nothing we have done over the past two seasons suggests otherwise.

All our eggs are in the Tim basket end of story and he'll probably absolutely crush it this year.

I’d love to agree with you but we have just been through year three of Tim getting punked out in the finals by superior ruckmen. How many times do we need to make the same mistake.

It feels a bit like one of those cricket selections where a bat that the selectors like keeps getting chances off a string of failures, so they can say they told you so once they make one score, the average will still be shocking. There’s a bit of sunk costs fallacy in Tim as it sits and I’m convinced that the number one ruck role isn’t getting the most out of him.

What I will continue say is that I rate Lobb as a ruckman and think he will help. But Grundy wouldn’t just help, he’d fix.

Whatever. I’m becoming a one note poster on this and we all know how annoying they are so I’ll give up and stop.

[bornadog]

Tim is our ruckman and Lobb is our support. That is the start and end of it and nothing we have done over the past two seasons suggests otherwise.

All our eggs are in the Tim basket end of story and he'll probably absolutely crush it this year.

Matty Lloyd clearly rates Tim higher than many on WOOF

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FevSiZTaAAIUaQR?format=jpg&name=medium

[lemmon]

Tim is a very good player with the potential to be an excellent one, but I also think he's just the kind of player that would be suited to having another ruckman (in the Grundy mould) alongside him.

My concern with how we've managed the ruck situation is the lack of forward planning. He's only contracted until the end of 2024 and I wouldn't be surprised at all if a move to WA is in his thinking.

Where are we left if Tim requests a trade at the end of next year?

The coaching staff don't seem to think Sweet is up to it yet we've put four years of development into him, Stef Martin is going into his third season as an emergency backup and there's nothing below either of those two.

Where's the next cab off the rank and why hasn't that been in our thinking?

[bornadog]

Where's the next cab off the rank and why hasn't that been in our thinking?

I think Darcy will end up in the ruck in the future but he is only 19 and has a way to go.

We really need to look at another mature ruckman, plus another development ruck

[Rocket Science]

Tim's an exceptional athlete and a fine footballer. He's also a below average ruckman which is problematic when you're a designated first ruck.

If memory serves in our post-GF pantsing mea culpas we were fairly vocal about our desire to strengthen our ruck stocks ahead of last year's trade period. Nek minnit we rolled out precisely the same personnel which shockingly, yielded similar results.

We've just doubled down on that by offering the donated organs of Stef Martin another year on the list.

Lobb helps, insofar as it's a step up from doing literally nothing, but those expecting a 30 year old career flake to repeat his season '22 goal and games played tallies may wanna brace themselves.

[Sedat]

Matty Lloyd clearly rates Tim higher than many on WOOF

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FevSiZTaAAIUaQR?format=jpg&name=medium
Lloyd's no 9 on the list completely destroyed his no 4 in the EF this year, and he is 12 months younger. English is the type to be overrated by scribes because of his ability to smash non-competitive hack rucks and also his ability to accumulate big possession numbers for a ruckman. He has great overall numbers, but unfortunately when the whips are cracking in big games/finals and against the better ruckmen, he has consistently been found well short of the mark.

[josie]

Gone to Dees for pick 27.

[Happy Days]

Cool. So we’re gonna pay more for Lobb who is older, worse and plays a position of lesser need.

This is gonna annoy me for ages.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Cool. So we’re gonna pay more for Lobb who is older, worse and plays a position of lesser need.

This is gonna annoy me for ages.
It's literally unbelievable. I'm so disillusioned with our trading............

Stef Martin was already too old when we first bought him in. He has had zero impact and is still on our books.

[josie]

It’s a puzzling one. Maybe we enquired and Grundy just wasn’t interested in us. Would be good to know if we at least asked. If Grundy comes good (overcomes injuries to somewhere like his pre-injury AA form), yeah no doubt it’s one we will discuss infinitum.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Cool. So we’re gonna pay more for Lobb who is older, worse and plays a position of lesser need.

This is gonna annoy me for ages.

It's mystifying. What's our short term plan? What's our long-term plan? Our strategy to list management is as mysterious as our weekly team selection.

[Mofra]

It's mystifying. What's our short term plan? What's our long-term plan? Our strategy to list management is as mysterious as our weekly team selection.
What mystery?

We've backed in English as a no 1 ruck for years now.

[MrMahatma]

F&&*** off

[bulldogsthru&thru]

What mystery?

We've backed in English as a no 1 ruck for years now.

Well....true. But what's our 2nd ruck and backup plan? Is it really Martin who was effectively dumped this season? Or is it Sweet who Bevo refuses to play?

What about our backline that was referred to by the coach as missing a few key players? Keath can't stay on the park and was dropped for a number of weeks. Now Cordy is gone and all we've done is bring in Jones?

I can't believe we're all going to have to sit through yet another season lamenting the same old issues whilst we piss another Bont season away. We will be so far behind the 8 ball once we finally decide enough is enough. We haven't even been drafting due to JUH and Darcy. I can see a lot of painful years in the future the way we're going.

[Mofra]

Well....true. But what's our 2nd ruck and backup plan? Is it really Martin who was effectively dumped this season? Or is it Sweet who Bevo refuses to play?

What about our backline that was referred to by the coach as missing a few key players? Keath can't stay on the park and was dropped for a number of weeks. Now Cordy is gone and all we've done is bring in Jones?

I can't believe we're all going to have to sit through yet another season lamenting the same old issues whilst we piss another Bont season away. We will be so far behind the 8 ball once we finally decide enough is enough. We haven't even been drafting due to JUH and Darcy. I can see a lot of painful years in the future the way we're going.
Right now, it's all-in on Lobb.
We aren't playing 2 rucks if the second ruck is only rucking for a few minutes per quarter. We cycled a few players through given Sweet isn't much use forward, Martin is cooked and Bruce was injured.

[bulldogtragic]

Traded for just pick 27…

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Right now, it's all-in on Lobb.
We aren't playing 2 rucks if the second ruck is only rucking for a few minutes per quarter. We cycled a few players through given Sweet isn't much use forward, Martin is cooked and Bruce was injured.

I'm less concerned with not going for Grundy than I am with our overall list balance. Lobb would be fine if it was the last piece if the puzzle. But it's not. Our defence is horrendous even with Jones, we have no natural forwards and our mids don't want to get their hands dirty and now we're losing one of the few who does. Given all the holes, we're better of keeping pick 21 and hitting the draft. If the list managers aren't trying to get talent into the club via trade then it's time for a rebuild.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Pick 21 for Lobb is WAY overs. I'd rather take it to the draft.

[bornadog]

Traded for just pick 27…

and huge salary

[bornadog]

Right now, it's all-in on Lobb.
We aren't playing 2 rucks if the second ruck is only rucking for a few minutes per quarter. We cycled a few players through given Sweet isn't much use forward, Martin is cooked and Bruce was injured.

Correct Moff and that is the reason we are chasing Lobb

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

and huge salary

For pick 27 you'd wanna hope Melbourne are eating most of his salary. But do we know if that is the case yet?

[Grantysghost]

For pick 27 you'd wanna hope Melbourne are eating most of his salary. But do we know if that is the case yet?

My understanding is he agreed to a paycut - but haven't seen that confirmed.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

For pick 27 you'd wanna hope Melbourne are eating most of his salary. But do we know if that is the case yet?

You'd have to think so otherwise that's insane from Collingwood. Unless there's more we don't know about Grundy.

[AshMac]

You'd have to think so otherwise that's insane from Collingwood. Unless there's more we don't know about Grundy.

Collingwood buddy in the equivalent of their (much shitter) version of WOOF is saying they’ve taken 700k of the 1m a year

If he took a 300k pay cut then surely there is something else behind the scenes

[hujsh]

Collingwood buddy in the equivalent of their (much shitter) version of WOOF is saying they’ve taken 700k of the 1m a year

If he took a 300k pay cut then surely there is something else behind the scenes

That is absolutely crazy. Is he completely spent and they're just buying pick 27 under the pretense of trading Grundy?

I understand that correctly that Collingwood is paying 70% of his contract?

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FewjvGSacAAozm_?format=jpg&name=large

[hujsh]

hahaha roflmao references are very funny

[DOG GOD]

Other teams continue to be proactive. Are we even on the phone?

[GVGjr]

Just confirmed, Brodie has changed his name and will now be known as Brodie GrunDee

[Grantysghost]

Other teams continue to be proactive. Are we even on the phone?

It's no coincidence the teams that do this well, are good on field atm.

[Grantysghost]

Just confirmed, Brodie has changed his name and will now be known as Brodie GrunDee

Brodee Grundee?

[bornadog]

This is kinda sad.

From Grundie

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Few0fA_VQAAj6Fq?format=jpg&name=medium

[F'scary]

Collingwood got a medical assessment of Grundy and then offloaded him.

[bornadog]

Collingwood got a medical assessment of Grundy and then offloaded him.

Is that fact or guess work?

[F'scary]

Is that fact or guess work?

It is another Kelvin Templeton.

[azabob]

Lloyd's no 9 on the list completely destroyed his no 4 in the EF this year, and he is 12 months younger. English is the type to be overrated by scribes because of his ability to smash non-competitive hack rucks and also his ability to accumulate big possession numbers for a ruckman. He has great overall numbers, but unfortunately when the whips are cracking in big games/finals and against the better ruckmen, he has consistently been found well short of the mark.

The list is also for the 2016 draft pool. Nothing more and nothing less.

If I didn't know better I would swear BAD works for the Daily Mail and is here for the click bait!

[azabob]

Collingwood still picking up some of Grundy salary.

[G-Mo77]

Was there really anyone here that honestly thought we might actually have a chance at him or are we just passing time?

[bornadog]

Was there really anyone here that honestly thought we might actually have a chance at him or are we just passing time?

Hoping Club might read it :D

[F'scary]

Was there really anyone here that honestly thought we might actually have a chance at him or are we just passing time?

I think we dodged a bullet. Knee injury, stress fractures of the foot, etc and the contract goes to 2027. 5 more years at $700k a year. Hello Stefan Martin mark II.

Collingwood has won a cash for clunkers trade.

[dog town]

I think we dodged a bullet. Knee injury, stress fractures of the foot, etc and the contract goes to 2027. 5 more years at $700k a year. Hello Stefan Martin mark II.

Collingwood has won a cash for clunkers trade. There is definitely some prospect that Grundy is cooked but I personally like the way he plays when fit. The bigger issue is that if we got Grundy we trash all the development we have put into English.

[bulldogtragic]

Grundy dropped this week.

Lobb dropped this week.

Did the clubs chase the wrong tall?

[GVGjr]

Grundy dropped this week.

Lobb dropped this week.

Did the clubs chase the wrong tall?

Lobb a forward who rucks and Grundy is a pure ruckman. We got what we were after and it hasn't really worked yet.
Melbourne rolled the dice and it hasn't quite panned out the way they wanted either.
Had we brought in Grundy we might have dropped him a lot earlier.

[jeemak]

They must be super frustrated/ annoyed with Lobb to have dropped him (given how long they stuck with Bruce, which says to me with Lobb there's some issues with attitude), but technically, he is who they wanted so they made the right call to execute their strategy.

Whether they got the strategy right......

[MrMahatma]

We got the exact Lobb that’s been running around for 10yrs.

Grundy looks to have fallen away.

[macca]

We got the exact Lobb that’s been running around for 10yrs.

Grundy looks to have fallen away.

Yep, it was contract year for him last year, so he played better than average, in a mid field that could get to him.

We kinda stuck with him now with a crap forward delivery and running patterns.

IF we get 40 goals from him a year, his earnt his money, anything less than we are burning ours .

Flynn was the better trade , we should have chased, ironically from GWS and could not get a game.

[hujsh]

Yep, it was contract year for him last year, so he played better than average, in a mid field that could get to him.

We kinda stuck with him now with a crap forward delivery and running patterns.

IF we get 40 goals from him a year, his earnt his money, anything less than we are burning ours .

Flynn was the better trade , we should have chased, ironically from GWS and could not get a game.

Nah wasn't a contract year but he did want a trade so he was playing for that

[MrMahatma]

Yep, it was contract year for him last year, so he played better than average, in a mid field that could get to him.

We kinda stuck with him now with a crap forward delivery and running patterns.

IF we get 40 goals from him a year, his earnt his money, anything less than we are burning ours .

Flynn was the better trade , we should have chased, ironically from GWS and could not get a game.

Ironically, we prob win if he plays tonight.

[anfo27]

Grundy dropped this week.

Lobb dropped this week.

Did the clubs chase the wrong tall?

Gawn BOG this week. Does this change the dees & Grundys thinking? English to the eagles, Lobb to Melbourne, Grundy to us. Better balance for all me thinks.

[bulldogtragic]

Gawn BOG this week. Does this change the dees & Grundys thinking? English to the eagles, Lobb to Melbourne, Grundy to us. Better balance for all me thinks.

Not sure I can think of two bigger name trades being traded the very next year. But I’m bored so I will play this out to see if specifics work:

English demands $1.1M with an Eagles offer and to be with his smoking hot GF in WA.
We say we won’t pay that.

Dees offer Picks 4, 15-18 & 22 and F1 - for - Pick 1 & F2
Dees take Harley Reid

WCE have 4, 15-18, 19, 22, 37 & 55

WCE trade Barass & 15-18, 37 & 55 - for English & 34

Dogs & Dees straight swap Lobb & Grundy (plus hand them back via WCE their 4th with us for Schache (pick 70) for getting 55 off WCE as it’s not needed by either club)

For:

Dogs: In: Grundy, Barass, Pick 15-18, 38 & 55 - for - English & 34, 70
WCE: In: English, 4, 22 & 34, F1 - for - Barass & Picks 1 & 38, F2
Dees: In: Lobb, Pick 1/Harley Reid & 70, F2 - for - Grundy & 4, 15-18, 22, F1

Dogs: Lose the AA ruckman we’ve developed and Lobb. Gain another first rounder ahead of a Croft bid. So three first rounders and Croft as a fourth first rounder when bid (current consensus pick 19 - end of first round). So four first rounders (Croft & Darcy covering Lobb longer term) & Barass (to replace Keath) and Grundy to replace English.
Dees: Upgrade their first rounder to Pick 1 for their Luke Jackson picks and minor downgrade next year. Get Lobb as a more genuine forward who can support Gawn
WCE: Land the AA ruckman and turn pick 1 into Pick 4, 22 and an upgrade from early second next year to a late first next year and second round upgrade from us this year. Still holding 4, 19, 22, 34 & F1 plus English.

On Barass I rate him about Pick 10. So adding 15-18 to me = 10 & 15-18 (less the upgrade we give them second round, but third rounder back for Draft Points) for English. Jackson trade is Picks 4, 13 & 22 (less some later picks back). So English here is valued about Jackson, but for Freo stinking it up this year and improving the future picks. So about right.


Is that about it? What you were after?

[anfo27]

Not sure I can think of two bigger name trades being traded the very next year. But I’m bored so I will play this out to see if specifics work:

English demands $1.1M with an Eagles offer and to be with his smoking hot GF in WA.
We say we won’t pay that.

Dees offer Picks 4, 15-18 & 22 and F1 - for - Pick 1 & F2
Dees take Harley Reid

WCE have 4, 15-18, 19, 22, 37 & 55

WCE trade Barass & 15-18, 37 & 55 - for English & 34

Dogs & Dees straight swap Lobb & Grundy (plus hand them back via WCE their 4th with us for Schache (pick 70) for getting 55 off WCE as it’s not needed by either club)

For:

Dogs: In: Grundy, Barass, Pick 15-18, 38 & 55 - for - English & 34, 70
WCE: In: English, 4, 22 & 34, F1 - for - Barass & Picks 1 & 38, F2
Dees: In: Lobb, Pick 1/Harley Reid & 70, F2 - for - Grundy & 4, 15-18, 22, F1

Dogs: Lose the AA ruckman we’ve developed and Lobb. Gain another first rounder ahead of a Croft bid. So three first rounders and Croft as a fourth first rounder when bid (current consensus pick 19 - end of first round). So four first rounders (Croft & Darcy covering Lobb longer term) & Barass (to replace Keath) and Grundy to replace English.
Dees: Upgrade their first rounder to Pick 1 for their Luke Jackson picks and minor downgrade next year. Get Lobb as a more genuine forward who can support Gawn
WCE: Land the AA ruckman and turn pick 1 into Pick 4, 22 and an upgrade from early second next year to a late first next year and second round upgrade from us this year. Still holding 4, 19, 22, 34 & F1 plus English.

On Barass I rate him about Pick 10. So adding 15-18 to me = 10 & 15-18 (less the upgrade we give them second round, but third rounder back for Draft Points) for English. Jackson trade is Picks 4, 13 & 22 (less some later picks back). So English here is valued about Jackson, but for Freo stinking it up this year and improving the future picks. So about right.


Is that about it? What you were after?

I think we look a better balanced team round 1 next year in this scenario.

[1eyedog]

Nah wasn't a contract year but he did want a trade so he was playing for that

Also pretty much played as the honcho forward all year. Very different here.

[1eyedog]

Not sure I can think of two bigger name trades being traded the very next year. But I’m bored so I will play this out to see if specifics work:

English demands $1.1M with an Eagles offer and to be with his smoking hot GF in WA.
We say we won’t pay that.

Dees offer Picks 4, 15-18 & 22 and F1 - for - Pick 1 & F2
Dees take Harley Reid

WCE have 4, 15-18, 19, 22, 37 & 55

WCE trade Barass & 15-18, 37 & 55 - for English & 34

Dogs & Dees straight swap Lobb & Grundy (plus hand them back via WCE their 4th with us for Schache (pick 70) for getting 55 off WCE as it’s not needed by either club)

For:

Dogs: In: Grundy, Barass, Pick 15-18, 38 & 55 - for - English & 34, 70
WCE: In: English, 4, 22 & 34, F1 - for - Barass & Picks 1 & 38, F2
Dees: In: Lobb, Pick 1/Harley Reid & 70, F2 - for - Grundy & 4, 15-18, 22, F1

Dogs: Lose the AA ruckman we’ve developed and Lobb. Gain another first rounder ahead of a Croft bid. So three first rounders and Croft as a fourth first rounder when bid (current consensus pick 19 - end of first round). So four first rounders (Croft & Darcy covering Lobb longer term) & Barass (to replace Keath) and Grundy to replace English.
Dees: Upgrade their first rounder to Pick 1 for their Luke Jackson picks and minor downgrade next year. Get Lobb as a more genuine forward who can support Gawn
WCE: Land the AA ruckman and turn pick 1 into Pick 4, 22 and an upgrade from early second next year to a late first next year and second round upgrade from us this year. Still holding 4, 19, 22, 34 & F1 plus English.

On Barass I rate him about Pick 10. So adding 15-18 to me = 10 & 15-18 (less the upgrade we give them second round, but third rounder back for Draft Points) for English. Jackson trade is Picks 4, 13 & 22 (less some later picks back). So English here is valued about Jackson, but for Freo stinking it up this year and improving the future picks. So about right.


Is that about it? What you were after?

Grundy is 29 and Barrass is 27 so if we're in the window, maybe, but are we?

Plus English is just getting better and better.

[anfo27]

Grundy is 29 and Barrass is 27 so if we're in the window, maybe, but are we?

Plus English is just getting better and better.

English not a centre bounce ruckman. Shouldn't pay a mill for a ruck that doesn't make our mids better.

[D Mitchell]

English not a centre bounce ruckman. Shouldn't pay a mill for a ruck that doesn't make our mids better.
Whilst stats don't corroborate, the irony is that English is probably a better forward but doesn't want to play forward and Lobb is a better tap ruckman but doesn't want to play ruck.

[bulldogtragic]

Grundy is 29 and Barrass is 27 so if we're in the window, maybe, but are we?

Plus English is just getting better and better.

This is for anfo. Who responded why they suggested it. I don’t think it’ll happen. But for conversation sake, we are stuck with Lobb. If that was Grundy it makes no huge difference to me too much. If we didn’t want to pay Tim the reported $1.1M a season, well we need someone to first ruck. We need a good KPD. This scenario has four first rounders coming to us (3 plus Croft matched at end of first round). That’s pretty much rebuild territory.

That said, I don’t see it happening. Unless Tim makes a monster demand. Then we need a first ruck and Melbourne might be willing to free up their salary cap. I think they’d love Fremantle Lobb. But if Tim asks for a reasonable dollar figure the club has gone so far down this path it can’t turn back and will lock him in long term. Whether that’s the best thing, well some say yes, and some like anfo think no. I guess we will find out soon enough.

[bornadog]

I started this thread but what I am going to say, is Grundy is cooked.

[Sedat]

I started this thread but what I am going to say, is Grundy is cooked.
I don't think he's cooked. He is simply a no 1 ruckman who needs 80-90% game time as the big dog. Melbourne is the last place he should have gone to (ditto Preuss who went to Melbourne 3-4 years ago and spent his entire time at the Dees enjoying the idyllic surrounds of Casey Fields).

Port Adelaide is the logical home for Grundy next year - they are in contention, Lycett is just about done, Teakle is ordinary and the young kid Dante is 2-3 years away minimum. And they already have the perfect no 2 ruckman/forward in Finlayson.

The horse bolted for us on Grundy 12 months ago, and it needed buy-in from English to change his role for the team.

[GVGjr]

I don't think he's cooked. He is simply a no 1 ruckman who needs 80-90% game time as the big dog. Melbourne is the last place he should have gone to (ditto Preuss who went to Melbourne 3-4 years ago and spent his entire time at the Dees enjoying the idyllic surrounds of Casey Fields).

Port Adelaide is the logical home for Grundy next year - they are in contention, Lycett is just about done, Teakle is ordinary and the young kid Dante is 2-3 years away minimum. And they already have the perfect no 2 ruckman/forward in Finlayson.

The horse bolted for us on Grundy 12 months ago, and it needed buy-in from English to change his role for the team.

Spot on, they rolled the dice with the set-up and it' hasn't quite worked for the reasons you've identified so they've made a change.

[Topdog]

English is 3rd in the league with 177 taps to advantage. Is he really the issue?

[bornadog]

English is 3rd in the league with 177 taps to advantage. Is he really the issue?

Amongst Ruckman

* Ranked 2nd for Disposals
* 3rd in Tackles
* Number one for Marks and 3rd in Cont. Marks
* 1 for inside 50s
* 4 in Contested Poss.

[Sedat]

English is 3rd in the league with 177 taps to advantage. Is he really the issue?
He's no doubt improved in his competitiveness/effectiveness at ruck stoppages this year, but he was coming from a low base. Is he totally there yet against the best ruckmen/teams? It's open to debate - in recent weeks he was very good against Geelong and very poor against Port. And has this improvement come from his own incremental growth or from better support from his no 2 (Lobb) compared to previous seasons?

English has never had a problem beating up on the clydesdales and the limited ruckmen (as he did again on the weekend against Sydney). But he simply can't dip to Port levels if we are to contend this season. He also needs better support from Lobb to significantly raise his game so that he can shoulder extra minutes to keep English fresh and damaging for longer in matches.

[Grantysghost]

English is 3rd in the league with 177 taps to advantage. Is he really the issue?

No he's not. AA ruckman what more can the guy do to get credit!

[hujsh]

I think it's also a bit of a myth he's the best 2nd ruck in the league. Aside from one game have we seen him perform that great as a forward? I think we like to extrapolate based on his around the ground mobility that he must be an amazing forward but I'm not sure he's actually that much better at it than say Max Gawn or Mason Cox.

[bornadog]

I think it's also a bit of a myth he's the best 2nd ruck in the league. Aside from one game have we seen him perform that great as a forward? I think we like to extrapolate based on his around the ground mobility that he must be an amazing forward but I'm not sure he's actually that much better at it than say Max Gawn or Mason Cox.

This ^^

When he was moved forward to rest a few years ago, he didn't kick many goals at all.

[azabob]

This ^^

When he was moved forward to rest a few years ago, he didn't kick many goals at all.

Like the team we trying to have English capture his form in the first four or five rounds of 2021 when Martin was a our first ruck and our forward line looked dangerous with Naughton, Bruce and English.

That time has now passed and we need to back English in.

I actually think playing Lobb doesn't help English or our team.

He is in the Gawn, Grundy mold and needs to ruck 90% of game time and really work his opponents over.

[Sedat]

This ^^

When he was moved forward to rest a few years ago, he didn't kick many goals at all.
Now with Naughts and Marra for the oppo to contend with, IMO English would be a massive headache drifting forward (especially late in games).

That's not all - he is an elite linkman through midfield and he is also terrific at chopping out the defence a kick behind play. Rucking close to 100% of the time has robbed him of these formidable strengths in other areas IMO.

[bornadog]

Now with Naughts and Marra for the oppo to contend with, IMO English would be a massive headache drifting forward (especially late in games).

That's not all - he is an elite linkman through midfield and he is also terrific at chopping out the defence a kick behind play. Rucking close to 100% of the time has robbed him of these formidable strengths in other areas IMO.

Agree -We need him more chopping out in Defence these days.

[bulldogtragic]

Plenty of media on Grundy at a new club next year, led by Dees mouthpiece Gary Lyon.

With the Dees paying $600,000 to $650,000 he will be harder to move. Tom Browne (I know) reckons there?s great contractual area around Grundy?s original top up from Collingwood as it?s between them and Dees. Not with the third club.

Assuming Collingwood continues to cover the $250,000 to $300,000, Dees might have to cover some. Or add another player to the trade who?s under contract and pay some of that. I reckon even if a few clubs want him, a future nothing pick is the cost. Going to be interesting where he lands for next year.

[azabob]

Plenty of media on Grundy at a new club next year, led by Dees mouthpiece Gary Lyon.

With the Dees paying $600,000 to $650,000 he will be harder to move. Tom Browne (I know) reckons there?s great contractual area around Grundy?s original top up from Collingwood as it?s between them and Dees. Not with the third club.

Assuming Collingwood continues to cover the $250,000 to $300,000, Dees might have to cover some. Or add another player to the trade who?s under contract and pay some of that. I reckon even if a few clubs want him, a future nothing pick is the cost. Going to be interesting where he lands for next year.

Would you believe that Tom is actually a qualified lawyer...

[bulldogtragic]

Would you believe that Tom is actually a qualified lawyer...

Not sure he’s a qualified human.

[1eyedog]

Plenty of media on Grundy at a new club next year, led by Dees mouthpiece Gary Lyon.

With the Dees paying $600,000 to $650,000 he will be harder to move. Tom Browne (I know) reckons there?s great contractual area around Grundy?s original top up from Collingwood as it?s between them and Dees. Not with the third club.

Assuming Collingwood continues to cover the $250,000 to $300,000, Dees might have to cover some. Or add another player to the trade who?s under contract and pay some of that. I reckon even if a few clubs want him, a future nothing pick is the cost. Going to be interesting where he lands for next year.

What a mess. Getting treated like a piece of shit. It's kind of his own fault though going to a club that has a dual AA ruckman.

Not sure why we'd be interested in Grundy may as well just play Sweet. Whoops...

[jeemak]

Would you believe that Tom is actually a qualified lawyer...

Oh no I didn't, and he seemed so nice initially........

[Hot_Doggies]

Getting Grundy would be a terrible move. Our premiership window currently is shut.

But if we can draft some quality kids to grow with JUH, Darcy , Naughton etc it will open quickly.

Sam Power and his team need to start thinking that if Bontompelli, Mccrae can hang until next window it’s a bonus. This is a massive off season for Power and the recruiting team. They could really set us up for long term success.

[hujsh]

Getting Grundy would be a terrible move. Our premiership window currently is shut.

But if we can draft some quality kids to grow with JUH, Darcy , Naughton etc it will open quickly.

Sam Power and his team need to start thinking that if Bontompelli, Mccrae can hang until next window it’s a bonus. This is a massive off season for Power and the recruiting team. They could really set us up for long term success.

It takes a long time for a ruck to be ready. Are you thinking we play Sweet if English leaves? If not Grundy as the interim/mentor is not a bad pickup depending on the salary/draft capital used.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Getting Grundy would be a terrible move. Our premiership window currently is shut.

But if we can draft some quality kids to grow with JUH, Darcy , Naughton etc it will open quickly.

Sam Power and his team need to start thinking that if Bontompelli, Mccrae can hang until next window it’s a bonus. This is a massive off season for Power and the recruiting team. They could really set us up for long term success.

It really is an interesting one.

I think we're quite a margin off contending too, which would make the decision to get Grundy another mistake, but to waste prime Bont years doesn't sit well with me either.

[anfo27]

This is for anfo. Who responded why they suggested it. I don?t think it?ll happen. But for conversation sake, we are stuck with Lobb. If that was Grundy it makes no huge difference to me too much. If we didn?t want to pay Tim the reported $1.1M a season, well we need someone to first ruck. We need a good KPD. This scenario has four first rounders coming to us (3 plus Croft matched at end of first round). That?s pretty much rebuild territory.

That said, I don?t see it happening. Unless Tim makes a monster demand. Then we need a first ruck and Melbourne might be willing to free up their salary cap. I think they?d love Fremantle Lobb. But if Tim asks for a reasonable dollar figure the club has gone so far down this path it can?t turn back and will lock him in long term. Whether that?s the best thing, well some say yes, and some like anfo think no. I guess we will find out soon enough.

Agree BT, I don't see it happening. I just say what I think based on what I see. Not knocking Timmy boy but his strength isn't in the centre bounce. When we last had a centre bounce presence we looked amazing. Our MC though thought they'd play him every week & over cooked Martin in the first half, instead of playing him sparingly knowing Martin was just about done.

If you're going to pay a ruck $1m a season I want this guy to put the ball where ever he wants in the centre bounce like a Gawn. Oliver & Petracca are made to look better simply due to the class ruckwork of Gawn. The Bont will arguably be the best dog ever & he doesn't get afforded anywhere near that service.

[anfo27]

Plenty of media on Grundy at a new club next year, led by Dees mouthpiece Gary Lyon.

With the Dees paying $600,000 to $650,000 he will be harder to move. Tom Browne (I know) reckons there?s great contractual area around Grundy?s original top up from Collingwood as it?s between them and Dees. Not with the third club.

Assuming Collingwood continues to cover the $250,000 to $300,000, Dees might have to cover some. Or add another player to the trade who?s under contract and pay some of that. I reckon even if a few clubs want him, a future nothing pick is the cost. Going to be interesting where he lands for next year.

If the cards fell right, we could do very well out of this. If Tim made it known he wanted to go home, Brodie wants to stay in Melbourne but not with the dees then things could get interesting.

[anfo27]

English is 3rd in the league with 177 taps to advantage. Is he really the issue?

I never said he was the issue. I personally think we would be a better balanced team with a ruckman who's 1 wood is ruckwork, considering our best player would benefit hugely from this.

I don't really care what the stats say. I know what I see & I don't think Tim is great in the centre. He's awesome around the ground though.

[westbulldog]

One scenario might be if English wants to go let him, get WCE No'1 pick +$$$, take Harley Reid and get Grundy.

[Rocket Science]

One wonders whether the noise around Reid's supposed reluctance to head west are routine psyops designed to motivate the Eagles to trade their draft selection.

[kruder]

Grundy is cooked its pretty simple.

[bornadog]

Grundy is cooked its pretty simple.

Yeah I said the same

[macca]

Hi risk with him , not sure the reward us really there. Maybe Melbourne are realizing it.
Collingwokd had Cox , who was half blind until they sorted out his funky sun googles. Second ruck and chop out. Darcy Cameron has come on and become first ruck

Gawn can ay forward all day and has great agility.

Not sure if Grundy and perform that fwd marking resting ruck

[bulldogtragic]

This. Let Tim go to WCE. Get pick 2, get Brodie cheaply.

[Testekill]

Anyone competent coach would back Sweet in as the replacement, he's offering much more around the grounds. Not clunking enough but his stoppage work is pretty strong now.

[bulldogtragic]

Anyone competent coach would back Sweet in as the replacement, he's offering much more around the grounds. Not clunking enough but his stoppage work is pretty strong now.

Sweet will quit the club. 100%.

[anfo27]

This. Let Tim go to WCE. Get pick 2, get Brodie cheaply.

If i'm in charge BT thats exactly what I'd do. Tim's the best follower in the game but we need a ruckman who will enhance Bont & libbas game. Like what we see with Petracca & Oliver getting silver spoon service.

[Hot_Doggies]

If i'm in charge BT thats exactly what I'd do. Tim's the best follower in the game but we need a ruckman who will enhance Bont & libbas game. Like what we see with Petracca & Oliver getting silver spoon service.

To enhance Libba’s game? He turns 32 next year.

We need to forget about those older players and recruit for 2025 onwards.

[Bullies]

Sweet will quit the club. 100%. And he will do well at another club. Had his apprenticeship. Enjoy watching his taps in the 2's the rest of his improvement will come the more he plays. And shows a bit of grunt as well which most of our players don't.

[Bullies]

To enhance Libba’s game? He turns 32 next year.

We need to forget about those older players and recruit for 2025 onwards. Agree. When they drop off at that age they drop off rather quickly. Not sure I'm looking forward to seeing Macrae over the coming years and he is contracted until 2027. I think the cliff has come early for him.

[josie]

Agree. When they drop off at that age they drop off rather quickly. Not sure I'm looking forward to seeing Macrae over the coming years and he is contracted until 2027. I think the cliff has come early for him.

Unforgivable to sign any player, even the Bont or Naughts, for that length of time. I think he’s been a great player for us but that is truly dumb of the club.

[anfo27]

To enhance Libba’s game? He turns 32 next year.

We need to forget about those older players and recruit for 2025 onwards.

Don't care about his age. He should be AA this year. You don't think adding a top shelf tap ruckman would help Libbas replacement as well?
Its about getting pieces in place to give the best player in the game a chance at getting another flag before his time is done. We need to give Bont a decent horse to ride to ride us to another flag. The last few years we've given him a pony & are expecting miracles.

[Hot_Doggies]

Don't care about his age. He should be AA this year. You don't think adding a top shelf tap ruckman would help Libbas replacement as well?
Its about getting pieces in place to give the best player in the game a chance at getting another flag before his time is done. We need to give Bont a decent horse to ride to ride us to another flag. The last few years we've given him a pony & are expecting miracles.

For Bont and Libba to have any chance of a flag we need speed and skill. We could win a flag with a part time ruck but in the modern game speed/skill is a non-negotiable.

[anfo27]

For Bont and Libba to have any chance of a flag we need speed and skill. We could win a flag with a part time ruck but in the modern game speed/skill is a non-negotiable.

No offence HD but honestly get your head out of the clouds. We don't need speed, we need a committed squad who BUYS in! Every single team looks slow when they lose. You get a squad next year who are committed to each other, the coach & the game style & anything is possible.

[Hot_Doggies]

No offence HD but honestly get your head out of the clouds. We don't need speed, we need a committed squad who BUYS in! Every single team looks slow when they lose. You get a squad next year who are committed to each other, the coach & the game style & anything is possible.

IMHO we were pretty committed against both Collingwood and Port this year.

We threw our best punch and came up short. We are crying out for midfield talent.

[anfo27]

IMHO we were pretty committed against both Collingwood and Port this year.

We threw our best punch and came up short. We are crying out for midfield talent.

Aren't you just proving my point? You can only point to 2 games out of 20 odd.

[Hot_Doggies]

Aren't you just proving my point? You can only point to 2 games out of 20 odd.

My point being, even when we are committed we aren’t up to it?

So it’s about the need to draft speed and skill?

[bulldogtragic]

Ralphy:

Dogs & Dees should trade Lobb & Grundy to each other.


Essentially, Lobb is more what Dees need. We have Naughts, JUH, Darcy and maybe Croft. Grundy & Tim resting forward is more dangerous for us.

[westdog54]

Ralphy:

Dogs & Dees should trade Lobb & Grundy to each other.


Essentially, Lobb is more what Dees need. We have Naughts, JUH, Darcy and maybe Croft. Grundy & Tim resting forward is more dangerous for us.

Are we going to have the same problem as Melbourne?

[bulldogtragic]

Are we going to have the same problem as Melbourne?

I guess/assume Ralphy thinks Grundy would be more our first ruck and Tim second ruck and forward. Something I don’t see Tim going for.

[bornadog]

Are we going to have the same problem as Melbourne?

Stupid idea plus Grundy is just about cooked.

[JanLorMill]

I guess/assume Ralphy thinks Grundy would be more our first ruck and Tim second ruck and forward. Something I don’t see Tim going for.
What if we are resigned to Tim leaving as a free agent?