Decisions, decisions

[bulldogtragic]

So help me out. What’s the attitude this list management season?

Hypothetically Brisbane offer up this and next years first.
Hypothetically Freo don’t trade Lobb.
Jones comes at No draft pick cost
Hypothetically the salary cap has maybe $1.2-$1.5M newly available

So…

2022: 2 x Firsts, plus other picks of value
2023: 2 x Firsts, plus second, third and fourth

Then…

Refresh the list meaningfully at the top end of the draft towards, seeing a window opening in say 2-3 seasons, and just tinker with existing salary structures

Or

Trade aggressively, use the picks and cash to get ready made talent (addressing key needs) with the view such trades make the best 22 next year capable of contending

Or

Tread water, and try to do both at lesser levels.



Just reading some threads, depending on if you think the window is open, will flow to the attitude. It seems there’s decent debate for going in either direction from what I’ve read from posters here. Interested to hear both sides.

[Topdog]

We made the GF last year and I honestly think we are close.

We won games this year and made the finals despite largely being really poor, having no defensive structure and having mini collapses in nearly every game.

Tweaks are needed but we have the list to have a crack in 23 and 24 so lets be bold.

[Mofra]

Keep our two 2022 first rounders and take them to draft.

If we miss out on Lobb and Soldo isn't going anywhere, we'd have to ask about Flynn from GWS.
2nd ruck with some forward craft. GWS are looking at Meek for $600k and with Briggs & Preuss there one of them is surely gettable.

If we really want an intercept marking 3rd defender, Tomlinson from Melbourne? Has played wing in the past too so Bevo would love him.

[Happy Days]

Agree that we’re close but this is looking like another off season where we aren’t going to be honest with ourselves. Last year it was plain to see that we needed help defensively and in the ruck, and we sat on our hands. We have the same issues this year and instead of looking at pieces that can help we’re looking at a forward who can ruck.

We’re addressing the problems we’d like to think we have instead of the ones we actually do.

[GVGjr]

2022 - With Dunkley gone and Lobb unlikely I would invest in the draft because it's a strong one. I'd also restructure contracts so that we free up space for the following year and beyond. Low end deal like Jones and maybe Melican would be the focus
I'd also look at getting our coaching structures right.

2023 - With cap space available go hard at a bringing in two quality players. We could also benefit from a couple of father sons arriving.

Plenty of options but the club does have a history of losing a big name player and going all in on bringing in a bigger one.

[F'scary]

Past few seasons indicates we are not that far off winning another flag. 2023 is also the last year of Bevo's current contract... Given that perhaps we go for broke next year by trading picks for ready made players this year, then if it is a bust, new coach and rebuild?

Question is what ready made, needs based players can we get if we trade pick 15, Dunk compo, 29 & 37?

First priority would be a ruck like Grundy or Lobb - but not both. (If Freo get Jackson, I think they will be open to a trade). Then I would look at serious upgrading of the positions that have been covered all season by players like Van Der Meer (10 games in 2022), Hannan (7 games), Roarke (10), McNeil (16) and McComb (15).

[bornadog]

I think we need to address our gaps with the Dunkley picks we get back and use our normal picks for drafting.

Pretty sure MJP was talking about the number of almost and past 30 year olds on the list which is a worry. If we are not careful, this will come back to bite us in the future.

If we are to trade, I would like to see more mid 20s players come in, not 30 year olds.

[1eyedog]

So help me out. What’s the attitude this list management season?

Hypothetically Brisbane offer up this and next years first.
Hypothetically Freo don’t trade Lobb.
Jones comes at No draft pick cost
Hypothetically the salary cap has maybe $1.2-$1.5M newly available

So…

2022: 2 x Firsts, plus other picks of value
2023: 2 x Firsts, plus second, third and fourth

Then…

Refresh the list meaningfully at the top end of the draft towards, seeing a window opening in say 2-3 seasons, and just tinker with existing salary structures

Or

Trade aggressively, use the picks and cash to get ready made talent (addressing key needs) with the view such trades make the best 22 next year capable of contending

Or

Tread water, and try to do both at lesser levels.



Just reading some threads, depending on if you think the window is open, will flow to the attitude. It seems there’s decent debate for going in either direction from what I’ve read from posters here. Interested to hear both sides.

A question. If we do accept a future first from Brisbane for Dunkley and that happens early are we able to trade this during this trade period if something tasty pops up?

[hujsh]

I think we need to address our gaps with the Dunkley picks we get back and use our normal picks for drafting.

Pretty sure MJP was talking about the number of almost and past 30 year olds on the list which is a worry. If we are not careful, this will come back to bite us in the future.

If we are to trade, I would like to see more mid 20s players come in, not 30 year olds.

I was thinking the same thing with regards to hopefully having a mix of drafing and trading.

As for the last part of your post I agree it's always preferable to try and bring in a player with some prime years left. The question though is who we can get. Those players are out there. Pickups like Biggs. Who are they now though?

[DOG GOD]

If we are to get players from other teams they HAVE to be best 22. We have enough depth if required.
A 2nd ruck is a must and I’m almost at the point that I don’t give 2 hoots who it is, just get one.
2 quality defenders are a must as well.

[bulldogtragic]

A question. If we do accept a future first from Brisbane for Dunkley and that happens early are we able to trade this during this trade period if something tasty pops up?

Let’s say we get their 22 & 23 first, with a pick of ours (say 29 going back for a player, and draft point upgrades for them, to give them a chunk of points back), we are then lawful custodians of four tradable first rounders at that point (across the 22&23 drafts). Plus a big chunk of salary, even more so if Lobb stays.

[1eyedog]

Let’s say we get their 22 & 23 first, with a pick of ours (say 29 going back for a player, and draft point upgrades for them, to give them a chunk of points back), we are then lawful custodians of four tradable first rounders at that point (across the 22&23 drafts). Plus a big chunk of salary, even more so if Lobb stays.

That would be a strong position and something I can definitely live with.

I wonder whether we have a duck we haven't heard about lined up this trade period.

[dog town]

I don’t think our list is anywhere near as strong as the majority of our supporters think. If we can get 4 first round picks in the next 2 years and free up space for a free agent assault that would be my preference. I also think this is the least likely way we will go, supporters are impatient which means the club will go for experienced players.

[GVGjr]

I don’t think our list is anywhere near as strong as the majority of our supporters think. If we can get 4 first round picks in the next 2 years and free up space for a free agent assault that would be my preference. I also think this is the least likely way we will go, supporters are impatient which means the club will go for experienced players.

I'm not so sure that our list isn't or wasn't strong DT. For the vast majority of 2021 we were really a very competitive team and close to being a dominate one. The GF finals sort of confirms it. What we didn't appear to do was address the gaps in the playing list and further develop the game plan and I think we paid a heavy price for that.

I do agree that we now need to invest a bit more heavily in the draft but I think a one year refresh is about all we would need.

[dog town]

I'm not so sure that our list isn't or wasn't strong DT. For the vast majority of 2021 we were really a very competitive team and close to being a dominate one. The GF finals sort of confirms it. What we didn't appear to do was address the gaps in the playing list and further develop the game plan and I think we paid a heavy price for that.

I do agree that we now need to invest a bit more heavily in the draft but I think a one year refresh is about all we would need.

The list has some strengths and the coaches were able to maximise those strengths in 2021 but it’s very hard work with some of our deficiencies and things move quickly in the AFL. In 2021 Bont and Macrae had top 5-10 in comp seasons, there were times during the year they were not in our top 5. That can swing back but it shows how fine a line we are treading.

We are all quick to point out 5-6 glaring deficiencies (happy to list them) in the list and lack of quality football department personnel supporting Bevo then scratch our heads/blame Bevo when we don’t win the premiership. Don’t get me wrong, all lists have areas that need work but ours has issues in every part of the ground. Some can be manipulated a bit, others will be more difficult.

We would need everything to go right and Bevo would need to have another year out of the box to have us contending in my view. Would be ecstatic to be proven incorrect but my thoughts are a little refresh will help us get there quicker.

I also think we have a misalignment with our young talls development versus needing to win games. We have to play Jamarra and Darcy next year but it’s crazy talk to expect them to stand up in finals in the short term. They will also expose us defensively for a little while yet as well.

[Bulldog Joe]

I am of the belief that our list is strong enough to contend.

We made the 21 GF and I don't see where the list has weakened. Dunkley was out injured for the majority of that year so his loss is not as big as we may feel.

I believe we need to add a good key back and Jones could be that. We also need to use the loss of Dunkley to add something we lack.

A pacy outside player of quality would not go astray.

What we really need for 2023 is a game plan that is suited to the list and allows us to maximise our scoring opportunities.

Read that as not everyone in the forward line flying for every high ball while keeping space for the forwards to work in.

What we also need is a team first ethic where ALL the players are prepared to defend as needed.

My conclusion is we need a big improvement from the coaches more than we new blood on the playing list.

[boydogs]

"Treading water" as it is described in the OP sounds bad, but I like the option of doing some trading and some drafting. The salary cap stops you going too all in anyway, you have to have some minimum wage kids on the list

[mjp]

My wishes are well known.

If we have HIGH picks in the draft (top 20) we need to take them and use them on running players - preferably ones who can come into the side and add leg speed at half-back/wing/high forward. We need some high end talent coming into the club - no criticism of Jones, Bedendo, Cleary etc but they were all 3rd round and lower selections over the last couple of years as we gave up our draft capital to take advantage of the rules in place allowing us to select Jamarra and Darcy.

We need to make a decision: Either agree to PLAY Sweet every week to support English or recruit someone who we WILL select.
We need to make a decision: Actively coach Weightman so that he stops flying vs Naughton OR recruit a crumbing forward who will stay on the deck. I actually have no opinion on whether this should be James Rowe or someone else but we need this sort of player.

Aside from that, let the review run it's course. I'm confident that the bones of a very good side are in place...sounds like there is some disunity in the playing group - work out what it is, fix it, move forward.

[GVGjr]

Thanks MJP, after losing Dunkley I'm right in the camp that we need one season of really investing in the draft to re-balance this list. Where we might differ is that we also need to balance this with both running players but also at least one key position defender but however that looks we have to take the best players.

What are your thoughts on potentially over paying for Bowes and trying to get that early pick off the Suns?

[mjp]

Thanks MJP, after losing Dunkley I'm right in the camp that we need one season of really investing in the draft to re-balance this list. Where we might differ is that we also need to balance this with both running players but also at least one key position defender but however that looks we have to take the best players.

What are your thoughts on potentially over paying for Bowes and trying to get that early pick off the Suns?

If we can get the early pick, we should 100% try to do it. BUT - if there is a free agency target we have already identified for 2024 we shouldn't compromise that to chase Bowes. (Meaning if over-paying Bowes puts us in a salary hole, dont do it).

[Mofra]

I'm big on taking two picks in the teens to draft, but I'd love one of those picks to be a genuine interceptor type.

Intercepts in the back half are gold in the modern 6-6-6 system and we just don't have that capability. O'Brien hasn't worked, we've lost Wood, Crozier's declined, Keath was playing KPD and his body is letting him down.... there's just nobody else.

[GVGjr]

I'm big on taking two picks in the teens to draft, but I'd love one of those picks to be a genuine interceptor type.

Intercepts in the back half are gold in the modern 6-6-6 system and we just don't have that capability. O'Brien hasn't worked, we've lost Wood, Crozier's declined, Keath was playing KPD and his body is letting him down.... there's just nobody else.

I get this logic and I want us to hit the draft hard. 4 picks inside 40 would give us plenty of chances but I guess it all hinges on us getting a trade through for Lobb or not.

[mjp]

Intercepts in the back half are gold in the modern 6-6-6 system and we just don't have that capability. O'Brien hasn't worked, we've lost Wood, Crozier's declined, Keath was playing KPD and his body is letting him down.... there's just nobody else.

See - I think it's Richards.

I just don't think you can find these players in the draft...to me, junior interceptors are AFL- draft busts in waiting...