Adam Treloar to the Dogs revisted

[GVGjr]

I'm not in any way comparing the scenario that led to Adam Treloar's departure from the Pies and heading too us during the 2020 trade period with the announcement yesterday about the horrendous way Hawthorn mismanaged some of their indigenous players but I do want to explore how much say a club should have on their players.

Rather than acknowledge their concerns with Adam and then once it was confirmed that Kim and daughter were still making the move put something in place to support Adam and Kim in Buckleys own words "it was a "catalyst" for his departure from the club.

This is a copy from an ABC article (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/collingwood-nathan-buckley-magpies-concerns-about-adam-treloar/12887422) that still makes me steam with the way Buckley talks about making an assessment on how Adam Treloars partner Kim Ravaillion moving to QLD to play netball.

Collingwood coach Nathan Buckley says the Magpies were concerned about Adam Treloar's family situation and it was a "catalyst" for the AFL midfielder's departure from the club.
Key points:

Treloar's partner Kim Ravaillion is relocating to Queensland with their infant daughter to play Super Netball
Buckley said the Magpies were concerned how Treloar might be affected on a professional level
Treloar was contracted to the Magpies until the end of the 2025 AFL season

Treloar joined the Western Bulldogs last Thursday night as one of four players offloaded by the Magpies to other clubs on the final day of the AFL's trade period.

The Magpies floated Treloar as a trade option during the last off-season before he re-signed with the club until 2025.

The 27-year-old's partner, Kim Ravaillion, is about to leave Melbourne with their infant daughter and play Super Netball with the Queensland Firebirds next year.

Treloar wanted to remain at the Magpies, where he played 94 matches after arriving in 2016 from Greater Western Sydney.

Buckley said Collingwood officials wondered how being in a long-distance relationship would affect Treloar's wellbeing.

"There's no doubt that was a catalyst in some shape or form," Buckley told SEN radio.

Buckley said the Magpies had conversations with Treloar about his family situation.

"The possibility that he might have been considering going to Queensland and being with his family was part of the reasoning around having the initial discussion 12 months ago, and then again this year," he said.

"Let's be clear, it's not our jobs to live Adam's life. Adam and Kim and their family are entitled to live their lives as they see fit.

"But it is our responsibility to work out on a professional level how that might affect Adam's ability to do his job, which is to play football and contribute to the club.

"We are within our rights to have an assessment of that given our knowledge of Adam."
The Collingwood AFL coach walks alongside one of the Magpies players before a match in Perth.

Buckley said there was no way Treloar's split from Collingwood could have been done "without trauma or pain".

"I am old enough and mature enough to understand in high-pressure situations, in situations that involve the heart, that unpredicted outcomes can occur," Buckley said.

"This is brutal. This was always going to be a shock and always going to cause distress."

Treloar, speaking on Friday, said Buckley told him senior Magpies players no longer wanted him at the club.

"To be told there are some players who don't want you there when I know that the majority of players love and care for me," he said.

"They were adamant on moving me on so no matter how they were going to go about it, it was going to happen.

"It was a fight up until the end because that's where I wanted to be, at Collingwood.

"I guess anything was going to be said to move me on."

The Magpies also arranged trades for Jaidyn Stephenson, Atu Bosenavulagi (both North Melbourne) and Tom Phillips (Hawthorn) last Thursday.

In his two years with us Treloar has been very professional and from an outsider looking in it hasn't impacted his football with us. To have the Collingwood club move him on under the guise of 'some of the players no longer want you here' is a terrible message to send to a player without the data behind it but also confirming that Kim's move to QLD played a part in his departure from the club is appalling.

So what do you think of clubs making this sort of assessment on players in their personal life? Rather that try to support Adam in what they thought would be a challenging period they just shuffled him away.

How many players might be subjected to this sort of control?

[Grantysghost]

Not sure he still seems like a guy who is with us under duress.

He's been good, not 900k good.

Totally agree with the way he was discarded by the Pies and their reasoning being absolute rubbish.

I do have some concerns about his time with us though.

He's getting paid to be top 2 or 3 player on the list is barely top 10.
Body language at times is terrible especially his second efforts.
Bromance.
His outside of the club endorsements where he rarely mentions the team.

I get we aren't paying 900k, but he's probably the most over paid player in the game, conceding he's been a reasonable player for us.

[bulldogtragic]

I still think it was a disgusting attempt to deflect attention from their salary cap incompetence. That Collingwood era was very big on seeking to blame others to avoid owning their mismanagement.

[Grantysghost]

I still think it was a disgusting attempt to deflect attention from their salary cap incompetence. That Collingwood era was very big on seeking to blame others to avoid owning their mismanagement.

Agree. Not sure if we needed to help out though when we had a glut of mids.
Lipinski has been as good as Treloar and we discarded him for pick 40 something.

[Stevo]

I still think it was a disgusting attempt to deflect attention from their salary cap incompetence. That Collingwood era was very big on seeking to blame others to avoid owning their mismanagement.

The contempt Buckley had for Treloars position is surprising. I agree they have done little to support and used it as an opportunity to discard a problem. Effectively a deceitful salary cap dump.

[bulldogtragic]

Agree. Not sure if we needed to help out though when we had a glut of mids.
Lipinski has been as good as Treloar and we discarded him for pick 40 something.

The fly in that ointment is the MC wouldn’t select Lipinski nearly enough. So it’s a player they do select, for a player they wouldn’t. So by the MC logic, it’s perfect sense.

[Grantysghost]

The fly in that ointment is the MC wouldn’t select Lipinski nearly enough. So it’s a player they do select, for a player they wouldn’t. So by the MC logic, it’s perfect sense.

Yep spot on BT.

[MrMahatma]

Not sure he still seems like a guy who is with us under duress.

He's been good, not 900k good.

Totally agree with the way he was discarded by the Pies and their reasoning being absolute rubbish.

I do have some concerns about his time with us though.

He's getting paid to be top 2 or 3 player on the list is barely top 10.
Body language at times is terrible especially his second efforts.
Bromance.
His outside of the club endorsements where he rarely mentions the team.

I get we aren't paying 900k, but he's probably the most over paid player in the game, conceding he's been a reasonable player for us.

Can he be more a permanent centre bounce guy next year and show why he’s paid $900k?

[Grantysghost]

Can he be more a permanent centre bounce guy next year and show why he’s paid $900k?

We dropped a heap of weight off him, 10 kgs? Think he went from 90s to 80s.

Think the idea was to stop the soft tissue injuries which appears to have worked but we may have robbed him of his one wood.

Not sure the coaches have helped, playing him half back because Cameron destroyed us hardly seems like a plan.

[jeemak]

Agree. Not sure if we needed to help out though when we had a glut of mids.
Lipinski has been as good as Treloar and we discarded him for pick 40 something.

We didn't discard Lipinski, he discarded us.

Here are their stats for the year, with Treloar having to play a lot of footy out of position to help the team. Lipinski has been good, but I don't imagine he's as good without a back story perpetuated by silly comments like "we discarded him". Treloar got 20% more footy than an inside mid and averaged almost twice the goals per game when playing games throughout the year in defence.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid2=5&type=A&pid1=3791&pid2=6354&fid1=S&fid2=S

I appreciate you wish we had have kept Lipinski, so do I, but it hasn't anything to do with Adam Treloar and it has everything to do with us not being able to fit Lipinski in which ironically wouldn't have been a problem if we just had have traded Dunkley when I proposed it.

[GVGjr]

The part I wanted to focus on was the tactics Collingwood used to get rid of Treloar.
I've seen nothing to suggest that the living arrangements he has with his partner is impacting his football with us.

[jeemak]

The fly in that ointment is the MC wouldn’t select Lipinski nearly enough. So it’s a player they do select, for a player they wouldn’t. So by the MC logic, it’s perfect sense.

He's a different player than Lipinski. Better on the outside and better on the inside.

[Grantysghost]

We didn't discard Lipinski, he discarded us.

Here are their stats for the year, with Treloar having to play a lot of footy out of position to help the team. Lipinski has been good, but I don't imagine he's as good without a back story perpetuated by silly comments like "we discarded him". Treloar got 20% more footy than an inside mid and averaged almost twice the goals per game when playing games throughout the year in defence.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid2=5&type=A&pid1=3791&pid2=6354&fid1=S&fid2=S

I appreciate you wish we had have kept Lipinski, so do I, but it hasn't anything to do with Adam Treloar and it has everything to do with us not being able to fit Lipinski in which ironically wouldn't have been a problem if we just had have traded Dunkley when I proposed it.

I feel that's really commentary to suit your narrative.

Surely you agree his lack of opportunity was the reaosn he left.

It was a token offer imo.

[jeemak]

The part I wanted to focus on was the tactics Collingwood used to get rid of Treloar.
I've seen nothing to suggest that the living arrangements he has with his partner is impacting his football with us.

Was getting to that bit.

I agree with abovementioned comments about Buckley trying to gaslight everyone about the trade when in essence they just botched their salary cap and did something unethical to justify making amends for it.

[jeemak]

I feel that's really commentary to suit your narrative.

Surely you agree his lack of opportunity was the reaosn he left.

It was a token offer imo.

At least I tried to back my statements with some level of reasoning! :)

We valued others more in his preferred position and gave him opportunity to remain at the club and tried to play him in another position. How is that discarding him?

He wanted to play in a preferred position, and yes, left for that but again it's the emotive language and the fact he went to the Pies that lifts his profile.

[Grantysghost]

At least I tried to back my statements with some level of reasoning! :)

We valued others more in his preferred position and gave him opportunity to remain at the club and tried to play him in another position. How is that discarding him?

He wanted to play in a preferred position, and yes, left for that but again it's the emotive language and the fact he went to the Pies that lifts his profile.

Yep fair call Jee.

[jeemak]

Another thing I wonder is whether we'd be giving Lipinski a game if we didn't have Treloar.

In the one year they played together Lipinski played 11 games, Treloar played 17. Prior to that Lipinski counting back across the years leading up to that played 13, 14 and 17, meaning he was on a bit of a downward trajectory leading up to Treloar's recruitment anyway (I haven't looked at the reasons why he missed games in any of those years). Perhaps Bevo attempting to get him to play on a wing wasn't to do with needing to make an inside midfield spot available, but rather, an effort to see if he could play another role for us.

Anyway, GVGjnr will pull his skirt over his head if we keep derailing his thread, so that's enough on the topic.

[jazzadogs]

The part I wanted to focus on was the tactics Collingwood used to get rid of Treloar.
I've seen nothing to suggest that the living arrangements he has with his partner is impacting his football with us.

Why focus on that, when we could rehash the same arguments about Lipinski?!?

I think Collingwood treated Treloar appallingly, and can definitely see the parallels to Hawthorn although the severity is worlds apart. I don't think an employer ever has the right to exert so much control or influence over their employees private lives.

In Treloar's case, I feel like they could have encouraged him to speak with a mental health professional, consider how he would manage with his family interstate, and if he felt that he needed to move he would be supported by the club. But as noted, the whole purpose of their approach was just to get rid of 2/3 of his salary - and they didn't give a damn about his mental health.

[boydogs]

Is Treloar any chance to follow Dunkley? Concerns about Brisbane's trade capital aside, his partner went to QLD as well

[Grantysghost]

Is Treloar any chance to follow Dunkley? Concerns about Brisbane's trade capital aside, his partner went to QLD as well

Very interesting take.

Kind of makes some sense, maybe a GC trade.

[dog town]

I feel that's really commentary to suit your narrative.

Surely you agree his lack of opportunity was the reaosn he left.

It was a token offer imo. If that is the reason he left then I’m comfortable with that. A player with no position suited to the way we play unfortunately. Consistently not strong enough inside to play true midfield, despite his polish he lacks the leg speed to play forward (hurts team defence).

To me it looked like Collingwood started working out some of his limitations compared with others towards the end of the year. This is usually what happens with recruits, a quick spike before reverting to the player they already were. He registered below his season average for disposals in all of his last 8 games.

Pies may yet find a role for him but there was no clear role with us with or without Treloar in my view.

[Scorlibo]

The part I wanted to focus on was the tactics Collingwood used to get rid of Treloar.
I've seen nothing to suggest that the living arrangements he has with his partner is impacting his football with us.

Timely topic for discussion G.

In most other workplaces the catalyst that Buckley provided would fall under unfair dismissal. He’s making guesses that Treloar’s work performance would drop away, based on aspects of Treloar’s personal life that ought to be his alone to manage.

The Hawthorn situation is slightly different in that it seems at least with some players they saw a drop in performance and instead of simply addressing their concerns within the confines of the workplace they forcibly made dramatic changes to the players’ personal life.

Both instances there are boundaries that never should have been crossed. The AFLPA has a big role to play here in ensuring their members’ rights to a private personal life are upheld. No player should be a prisoner to the game.

[GVGjr]

Timely topic for discussion G.

In most other workplaces the catalyst that Buckley provided would fall under unfair dismissal. He’s making guesses that Treloar’s work performance would drop away, based on aspects of Treloar’s personal life that ought to be his alone to manage.

The Hawthorn situation is slightly different in that it seems at least with some players they saw a drop in performance and instead of simply addressing their concerns within the confines of the workplace they forcibly made dramatic changes to the players’ personal life.

Both instances there are boundaries that never should have been crossed. The AFLPA has a big role to play here in ensuring their members’ rights to a private personal life are upheld. No player should be a prisoner to the game.

What I find disappointing is the way the media never scrutinized Buckley or Collingwood like they should have. It's a huge decision to move a player out based on their view on his off field arrangements with a committed partner. It doesn't look like there was even an offer to support him although had he not been shuffled away I think they would have.
Treloar was not an erratic or immature youngster who was being reckless and there was no evidence to suggest that he and his partner couldn't manage the arrangement but based on a 'gut feel' he was tossed away from a club where he wanted to stay.
Saying that other players at Collingwood wanted him gone was a dagger to his heart.

I think they used his circumstances to help address their salary cap challenges and they should be called to explain it further.

[bulldogtragic]

He's a different player than Lipinski. Better on the outside and better on the inside.

With Dunkley going, I’d expect his output and impact increase next year. His best on ball is sublime.

[Mofra]

Interesting we keep seeing the 'Treloar is getting $900k' talk.

Treloar is on $600k for us and should have been on that with Collingwood too, but delayed payments for the good of the club. They guy sacrificed salary up front to try and help the team, and got kicked to the curb. The top up Colingwood salary is a delayed payment of salary owed, not his market value.

He was our best player in the GF and one of our best that finals series.

I think he's likely to spend the last year of his contract in rehab, but I'll happily wear that knowing it got us into a Grand Final for the 4th time since 1925. You have to be in it to win it, and over our journey we just haven't been in it enough.

Right now we have two mids with pace who can adequately attend CBs - Treloar and Baz. For all the 'dime a dozen' talks we get about mids at draft time, good ones who can accelerate just aren't as common as we give them credit for.

[Grantysghost]

He's getting 5 x 900 so I guess that's our biggest salary for a player ? I get we aren't paying it all. But that's his wage.
Other than Bont maybe Naughts that would be the highest

How much was the original contract with Pies must've been huge!

[GVGjr]

He's getting 5 x 900 so I guess that's our biggest salary for a player ? I get we aren't paying it all. But that's his wage.
Other than Bont maybe Naughts that would be the highest

How much was the original contract with Pies must've been huge!

It's only because he tried to do the right thing by Collingwood and pushed back the spread of money. They then didn't want to pay him.

This from 2019

The Herald Sun also reported Treloar had signed a four-year contract extension with the Magpies — a deal the club has opted not to publicise.

Treloar originally signed a six-year deal on around $650,000 per season when he was traded from the GWS Giants to Collingwood during the 2015 AFL exchange period.

[MrMahatma]

It's only because he tried to do the right thing by Collingwood and pushed back the spread of money. They then didn't want to pay him.

This from 2019

The Herald Sun also reported Treloar had signed a four-year contract extension with the Magpies — a deal the club has opted not to publicise.

Treloar originally signed a six-year deal on around $650,000 per season when he was traded from the GWS Giants to Collingwood during the 2015 AFL exchange period.

That's good. And that's inline with his value I reckon. TBH, in some ways he's a steal at that price given what some players around the comp get when they go play at Carlton.

[Grantysghost]

It's all a bit of a disaster isn't it.

Must've taken significantly lower salary (400?).

So in total he's getting 650k per season which is about right.

900 x 5 with us 4. 5 mill so in the 5 years with the pies he was paid 2 mill. About 400k per year however it was structured. That's pretty terrible.

Thanks.

[Dogs 24/7]

Clubs shouldnt be able to invade a players personal life like that and Buckley has no right to make that announcement in the public.
We are lucky to have Adz at the club but he was treated poorly by Collingwood.

[bornadog]

Is Treloar any chance to follow Dunkley? Concerns about Brisbane's trade capital aside, his partner went to QLD as well

Netball season is only 12 weeks , so really no big deal.

[F'scary]

The Hawthorn allegations are just that at the moment, let's see if there is anything of substance. But the Treloar situation is now verified and is an actual incident of deplorable player management practices (so it makes you wonder about the Hawthorn allegations!). Firstly, the Collingwood club mucking up on managing to the cap and then seeking to cover its tracks by concocting and actively promulgating stories to blame the selected player for the inevitable salary offload.

[Swoop]

Port Adelaide is a good example of the path I would like us to take. A few seasons ago they traded away Wingard and accumulated 3 picks in the top 20. They targeted Rozee, Butters and Duursma.

I believe with our current list, we have the ability to rejuvenate and energise our list with quality youth. Tallers take time but young mids have the ability to come in and contribute straight away. We don't need to replace Dunkley immediately, there are a number of wing / half forward types that can play on the outside while they develop.

You only need to see the impact of someone such as Weightman can have. Performance aside it's clear to see the energy and enthusiasm he adds that I think our list could really benefit from.

There's a lot of quality types within the teens that could meet that criteria.

[Mofra]

Port Adelaide is a good example of the path I would like us to take. A few seasons ago they traded away Wingard and accumulated 3 picks in the top 20. They targeted Rozee, Butters and Duursma.

I believe with our current list, we have the ability to rejuvenate and energise our list with quality youth. Tallers take time but young mids have the ability to come in and contribute straight away. We don't need to replace Dunkley immediately, there are a number of wing / half forward types that can play on the outside while they develop.

You only need to see the impact of someone such as Weightman can have. Performance aside it's clear to see the energy and enthusiasm he adds that I think our list could really benefit from.

There's a lot of quality types within the teens that could meet that criteria.
We're a chance if we manage to take two picks in the teens to draft this year, and another pick in the 20s.
Given we're taking Jones, potentially Lobb and perhaps even Tomlinson this year we should load up at the draft. Harsh but I would not be offering a new deal to Martin or Mitch Wallis, to free up list spots.

[jazzadogs]

We're a chance if we manage to take two picks in the teens to draft this year, and another pick in the 20s.
Given we're taking Jones, potentially Lobb and perhaps even Tomlinson this year we should load up at the draft. Harsh but I would not be offering a new deal to Martin or Mitch Wallis, to free up list spots.

I don't think it's harsh, I think it's realistic. Neither Wallis nor Martin should play at AFL level next year, so why waste a list spot on them.

[soupman]

I don't think it's harsh, I think it's realistic. Neither Wallis nor Martin should play at AFL level next year, so why waste a list spot on them.

100%.

Part of finding new talent is embracing the churn, and keeping blokes you don't intend to play ever is certainly not that.

[bornadog]

I don't think it's harsh, I think it's realistic. Neither Wallis nor Martin should play at AFL level next year, so why waste a list spot on them.

The club that does this well is Hawthorn.

[F'scary]

The club that does this well is Hawthorn.

...perhaps too well :eek: