Unpopular opinion: Jason Horne-Francis is RIGHT to ask for a trade.

[mjp]

Horne-Francis is right to ask for a trade.

North are a rabble - the coach he (seemingly) couldn't get along with was sacked.
The recruiters who selected him are all gone...left the club in either disgrace or as losers of a power struggle with the coach (you know, the one who was sacked!)/
They couldn't win a game. This was pretty epic stuff and they set a record for consecutive 'big' defeats...it wasn't your average 'crappy season'...it was an epic-ly crappy season.
The CEO was sacked.
They are now in the middle of the racism stuff (his Step-Father is First Nations) and no doubt he feels strongly about the issue...and there are stories about North players from 2022 being involved at Hawthorn during the period in question who he undoubtedly has a relationship with...

Careers get ruined in 1-2 years. Ask some of the high draft picks who have watched their careers turn to smoke up at Gold Coast if they wished they had acted 'sooner' to get out...or just let their value fritter away to nothing and been unable to find a new home. Ask the players who got stuck at Melbourne during the tanking era the same question...it is not good.

If I was giving him advice, I would be telling him to get out if he can...unfortunately he is a number 1 pick and this is causing a storm, but did he really have another choice?

Nathan Buckley did essentially the same thing - he is a legend of Collingwood and no-one even remembers his year at the Bears. Ditto Tom Boyd for us.

[Topdog]

I'm all for his move, don't get all the drama with him leaving

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I honestly couldn't disagree more. If I get time I'll go into detail later, but regarding a few of your points;

- This just isn't comparable to Boyd when you look deeper. JHF has been PART of the problem for North. His attitude hasnt been anything other than pittiful. He didn't give this a chance from day one, he has LIED and manipulated the club by flying back home without the knowledge/consent of North and been completely unprofessional (hence the suspension). Boyd did none of this - he simply took advantage of an opportunity to get home. JHF has demanded it through his actions and now the request.

- Comparisons with Melbourne ans GC are premature. He's been there not even a full year to date. I don't think anyone would begrudge him if he was professional, busted his gut, and requested a trade next year because he didn't see his future at North. It happens. But he has shown no integrity whatsoever.

Players already have too much 'power', this is another push in that direction where a kid can come in, give a half assed effort, cause disruption, lie, and force a club to break the contract by trading him to ONE club of preference. It's garbage.

[Mofra]

I actually agree - it's a win/win for both parties.
North will get multiple picks for him, and perhaps a player. They've picked up a few mids in recent drafts too so really can target that KPF they desperately need to pair with Larkey.

Port get that 'lynchpin' mid they have been searching for with Boak in perhaps his last season

[Twodogs]

I think it's one of those deals we genuinely won't be able to judge for 3 or 4 years. Maybe one of the Adelaide clubs gives up 2 early first rounders for him and he either becomes or turns out a dud while one or both of the players North picks play 200 gameseach.

The one thing you can almost say for certain is that the way things are looking JHF is at the top of his trade worth for North right now.

[Mofra]

I honestly couldn't disagree more. If I get time I'll go into detail later, but regarding a few of your points;

- This just isn't comparable to Boyd when you look deeper. JHF has been PART of the problem for North. His attitude hasnt been anything other than pittiful. He didn't give this a chance from day one, he has LIED and manipulated the club by flying back home without the knowledge/consent of North and been completely unprofessional (hence the suspension). Boyd did none of this - he simply took advantage of an opportunity to get home. JHF has demanded it through his actions and now the request.

- Comparisons with Melbourne ans GC are premature. He's been there not even a full year to date. I don't think anyone would begrudge him if he was professional, busted his gut, and requested a trade next year because he didn't see his future at North. It happens. But he has shown no integrity whatsoever.

Players already have too much 'power', this is another push in that direction where a kid can come in, give a half assed effort, cause disruption, lie, and force a club to break the contract by trading him to ONE club of preference. It's garbage.
How much of the 'half arsed' effort talk is just talk though?

Given the side he was in and what he was asked to do, I doubt any kid could have performed as well as he did.
He missed one ice bath - fine. But to drop the kid (their 'hope') for their first game back in SA? There were plenty of worse performers than JHF this year for North - I think that was the beginning of the end.

[hujsh]

Hadn't seen that perpective before mjp.

It's interesting and something to keep in mind but I can't help but see HD's points as valid as well.

Asking for the trade is not necessarily bad but JHF has seemingly conducted himself in about as a bad a manner as possible leading up to the moment. Though supposedly he said he didn't plan on sticking around in Victoria so it's a risk the Roos took (one that given what we've seen this year wasn't likely to pay off and even moreso with the Clarkson issue thrown in).

I'm not super sympathetic to either side TBH

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think North can do well out of the trade but it's besides the point and not by design, rather by force.

[Swoop]

It's chicken and egg stuff isn't it? There were zero concerns overhis attitude and commitment at U18 level.

You can guarantee he wouldn't try and wouldn't be allowed to get away with what he did this year at Geelong under the leadership and within their culture.

Their lack of leadership and culture probably contributed to his poor attitude, and by all means his attitude didn't positively contribute to their culture.

At the end of the day, it could still be a win win for both clubs with both benefiting from a fresh start.

[hujsh]

I actually agree - it's a win/win for both parties.
North will get multiple picks for him, and perhaps a player. They've picked up a few mids in recent drafts too so really can target that KPF they desperately need to pair with Larkey.

Port get that 'lynchpin' mid they have been searching for with Boak in perhaps his last season

Would've been an even bigger win if they took Adelaide's offer last year. Though picks 4+5 do sound better than what they would have become after the F/S bids.

[Grantysghost]

Horne-Francis is right to ask for a trade.

North are a rabble - the coach he (seemingly) couldn't get along with was sacked.
The recruiters who selected him are all gone...left the club in either disgrace or as losers of a power struggle with the coach (you know, the one who was sacked!)/
They couldn't win a game. This was pretty epic stuff and they set a record for consecutive 'big' defeats...it wasn't your average 'crappy season'...it was an epic-ly crappy season.
The CEO was sacked.
They are now in the middle of the racism stuff (his Step-Father is First Nations) and no doubt he feels strongly about the issue...and there are stories about North players from 2022 being involved at Hawthorn during the period in question who he undoubtedly has a relationship with...

Careers get ruined in 1-2 years. Ask some of the high draft picks who have watched their careers turn to smoke up at Gold Coast if they wished they had acted 'sooner' to get out...or just let their value fritter away to nothing and been unable to find a new home. Ask the players who got stuck at Melbourne during the tanking era the same question...it is not good.

If I was giving him advice, I would be telling him to get out if he can...unfortunately he is a number 1 pick and this is causing a storm, but did he really have another choice?

Nathan Buckley did essentially the same thing - he is a legend of Collingwood and no-one even remembers his year at the Bears. Ditto Tom Boyd for us.

God North aren't the Bears or GWS this is a very non Melbourne take.

Really seems extreme to me.

North are struggling but they aren't that far away from our own club and we were there not that long ago 2003 ish and again in 2014.
Horne Francis seems like a kid that doesn't like to be away from home and that's fine, but to lay it at the feet of a club that has some amazing people on board seems the easiest of easy commentary.
Considering they have leaders like Cunnington, Goldstein, Mcdonald, Zeiball I doubt very much he's leaving because of culture.


He just doesn't want to stick it out and rebuild.


Still love you mjp ;) but now you're 3 hours behind.

[Topdog]

God North aren't the Bears or GWS this is a very non Melbourne take.
.

This kind of stuff is a very pro Melbourne take.

North this season were one of the worst performed sides in AFL history.

[Twodogs]

God North aren't the Bears or GWS this is a very non Melbourne take.

Really seems extreme to me.

North are struggling but they aren't that far away from our own club and we were there not that long ago 2003 ish and again in 2014.
Horne Francis seems like a kid that doesn't like to be away from home and that's fine, but to lay it at the feet of a club that has some amazing people on board seems the easiest of easy commentary.
Considering they have leaders like Cunnington, Goldstein, Mcdonald, Zeiball I doubt very much he's leaving because of culture.


He just doesn't want to stick it out and rebuild.


Still love you mjp ;) but now you're 3 hours behind.

We are miles ahead of North on almost any KPI you could name.

Maybe in distance we aren't that far apart but in terms of performance, outcome, culture, administration, talent and future we are way out in front.

[mjp]

- This just isn't comparable to Boyd when you look deeper. JHF has been PART of the problem for North. His attitude hasnt been anything other than pittiful. He didn't give this a chance from day one, he has LIED and manipulated the club by flying back home without the knowledge/consent of North and been completely unprofessional (hence the suspension). Boyd did none of this - he simply took advantage of an opportunity to get home. JHF has demanded it through his actions and now the request.


Couldn't disagree more. He's 18.

He needed leadership and nurturing. Apparently blaming an 18yo for his attitude rather than supporting him and leading him is the way to go...

A fish rots from the head, not the tail.

[EasternWest]

I'm fine with it, but it's easy to be that way when you've no dog in the fight.

[GVGjr]

Yes he is in his right to ask for a trade but you're laying this out like he is the only one who has been inconvenienced by the struggles North have endured. Everything you have detailed is the same for all of the playing group

The Buckley JHF comparison might be factually valid but just flat out wrong in my opinion as there is a clear contrast in they way they went about performing the start of their professional careers.
Buckley made his intentions 100% clear to Brisbane who backed themselves to change his mind. They didn't. Buckley was 100% professional in his 12 months at Brisbane and didn't refuse ice baths and he also didn't make an unauthorised trip back home.
JHF wanted to go number 1, it was important to him but he hasn't set a very high standard given his petulant behaviour.
He needs to serve apprenticeship and learn as much as he can.

North should hold him to his contract unless the get a fair return but probably won't and JHF will get what he wants.

[Mofra]

Would've been an even bigger win if they took Adelaide's offer last year. Though picks 4+5 do sound better than what they would have become after the F/S bids.
I think so, in hindsight.
In a regular year, without knowing what they know now, perhaps perhaps not - but it wasn't a regular year. Daicos was the consensus no1 pick and Darcy went at no 2 (pick 19 was part of the deal too which would have been handy) and there muted concerns over JHF's long term future in Melbourne.

Let's face it. If you're at the bottom of the table, hope is the only thing to sell your supporters. Your CEO has walked, your entire recruiting team, there's a massive question mark over your 'savior' coach and now the kid you pinned your hopes on is walking, only the third no 1 pick in history to do so. In hindsight they would have been far better off.

They're re-starting a rebuild and with all the focus on JHF, right now they're better to just rip the band-aid off now, grab Cadman and whatever else they can with their draft picks, and try and generate some excitement about the place.

[azabob]

We are miles ahead of North on almost any KPI you could name.

Maybe in distance we aren't that far apart but in terms of performance, outcome, culture, administration, talent and future we are way out in front.

What about in 2003 and 2014 which were the years GG was comparing.

[mjp]

Yes he is in his right to ask for a trade but you're laying this out like he is the only one who has been inconvenienced by the struggles North have endured. Everything you have detailed is the same for all of the playing group

The Buckley JHF comparison might be factually valid but just flat out wrong in my opinion as there is a clear contrast in they way they went about performing the start of their professional careers.
Buckley made his intentions 100% clear to Brisbane who backed themselves to change his mind. They didn't. Buckley was 100% professional in his 12 months at Brisbane and didn't refuse ice baths and he also didn't make an unauthorised trip back home.
JHF wanted to go number 1, it was important to him but he hasn't set a very high standard given his petulant behaviour.
He needs to serve apprenticeship and learn as much as he can.

North should hold him to his contract unless the get a fair return but probably won't and JHF will get what he wants.

Ice baths? Brisbane didn't even have ice baths! Are we really comparing what was required in the early 90's with 2022?

Was the trip 'unauthorised' - or did he just go without telling anyone. Did he know he was supposed too? Did he miss a meeting or was he late for work? Were Victorian based players from the country permitted to drive home and see their families without explanation?

North have managed this poorly. And now they are embroiled in a new round of 'messiness'. Get out of there is what I say.

[MrMahatma]

North flat out suck. And what’s the outlook? Really? It’s more sucking. Bad! And maybe no coach? Or another one… so, his 4th (although Clarko never started I guess) in a year? North could win the next 5 spoons and it’d not be a surprise.

I’d be outta there ASAP. Life’s too short. Make the move early. He’ll be known as a Port player. Good luck to him. (I reckon Port might suck pretty soon also but not North level).

[hujsh]

Ice baths? Brisbane didn't even have ice baths! Are we really comparing what was required in the early 90's with 2022?

Was the trip 'unauthorised' - or did he just go without telling anyone. Did he know he was supposed too? Did he miss a meeting or was he late for work? Were Victorian based players from the country permitted to drive home and see their families without explanation?

North have managed this poorly. And now they are embroiled in a new round of 'messiness'. Get out of there is what I say.

Yeah that part seemed funny. Are AFL players meant to get approval to leave the state if it doesn't impact training or other commitments? Does it impact their recovery in some way? Weirdly controlling if so

[Grantysghost]

This kind of stuff is a very pro Melbourne take.

North this season were one of the worst performed sides in AFL history.

Maybe !

My point was Norf are a club with a long proud catholic history and those teams were new.

Not sure their season ranks in the top 50 worst but it was bad I’ll give you that.

Some players don’t want to stick it out and expect instant success / popularity / instagram followers.

I think his attitude sucks and really feel for North. Right to ask for a trade is just insane when there’s guys like LDU there.

[Grantysghost]

What about in 2003 and 2014 which were the years GG was comparing.
Cooney is a great comparison.

We were far worse off than North who have no debt afaik.

We didn’t even have a sponsor we had to go cap in hand to Eddie and parade our jumper around like on the nose real estate to try and attract sponsors.

5 years later he wins a Brownlow. Dare say the easy option was to go home.

[Grantysghost]

Actually I’ve had a longer think about this.

Ive got a proposal.

Instead of the draft (pfft why reward mediocrity) we should just have a system where the most talented players are spared the indignity of ending up at a bottom club, and remove them from selection altogether.

The top 10 talent get to choose their own club and the draft starts at 11.

Everyone wins!

[jeemak]

It's actually OK to agree that he's probably been a bit of a shit, and that North weren't/ aren't managed well.

For all concerned it's best he gets out of there.

[hujsh]

I'd like to acknowledge mjp having the decency to post an actual unpopular (or at least uncommon/not widely shared) opinion. Too often unpopular opinion threads are something like "Jam is actually great on toast" so good on him for having the courage to back that trend/

[Grantysghost]

It's actually OK to agree that he's probably been a bit of a shit, and that North weren't/ aren't managed well.

For all concerned it's best he gets out of there.

https://www.nmfc.com.au/news/1031804/north-melbourne-announces-debt-free-status

Pick a side Jee!

[Grantysghost]

I'd like to acknowledge mjp having the decency to post an actual unpopular (or at least uncommon/not widely shared) opinion. Too often unpopular opinion threads are something like "Jam is actually great on toast" so good on him for having the courage to back that trend/

What flavour?

[Grantysghost]

I'd like to acknowledge mjp having the decency to post an actual unpopular (or at least uncommon/not widely shared) opinion. Too often unpopular opinion threads are something like "Jam is actually great on toast" so good on him for having the courage to back that trend/
Nothing like some good disruption, agree.

[jeemak]

https://www.nmfc.com.au/news/1031804/north-melbourne-announces-debt-free-status

Pick a side Jee!

From a footy department perspective, was what I meant.

[Topdog]

Cooney is a great comparison.

We were far worse off than North who have no debt afaik.

We didn’t even have a sponsor we had to go cap in hand to Eddie and parade our jumper around like on the nose real estate to try and attract sponsors.

5 years later he wins a Brownlow. Dare say the easy option was to go home.

Our debt was worse, in every other department we were no where near the rabble that North are right now.

Since 1945 this is a top 10 worst season on the field not to mention all the dramas off it.

If it were my son I'd be telling him to leave that terrible work environment when i know he has other options

[jeemak]

https://www.nmfc.com.au/news/1031804/north-melbourne-announces-debt-free-status

Pick a side Jee!


What flavour?

Picking a side/ flavour in this instance is like deciding between poo flavoured chocolate or chocolate flavoured poo.

[Grantysghost]

Our debt was worse, in every other department we were no where near the rabble that North are right now.

Since 1945 this is a top 10 worst season on the field not to mention all the dramas off it.

If it were my son I'd be telling him to leave that terrible work environment when i know he has other options

Fair enough, don’t agree we didn’t even have a sponsor but respect your opinion.

It’s not North it’s the player imo, they don’t turn over more players than any other team.

[Grantysghost]

Picking a side/ flavour in this instance is like deciding between poo flavoured chocolate or chocolate flavoured poo.
Clearly the second.

[jeemak]

Clearly the second.

Anyone who answers that quickly needs to take some time to assess themselves.

[soupman]

I'd like to acknowledge mjp having the decency to post an actual unpopular (or at least uncommon/not widely shared) opinion. Too often unpopular opinion threads are something like "Jam is actually great on toast" so good on him for having the courage to back that trend/

Jams never been the issue. Toast however is vastly overrated, it's just dry bread.

[Grantysghost]

Anyone who answers that quickly needs to take some time to assess themselves.
I watched Dahmer. I’m in a strange place right now.

[EasternWest]

Jams never been the issue. Toast however is vastly overrated, it's just dry bread.

Raw Toast likes this.

[jazzadogs]

Clearly the second.

You've said some cooked things on here. But 'clearly'????

[bulldogtragic]

There’s also an opportunity here.

Buckley wanted out and had a great career, no flags. The draft pick given, used on Chris Scott, got them 200+ games, played in four grand finals and won two flags.

Tom Boyd was a retaliatory strike for Griffen who walked out. Griffen didn’t win a flag, Tom Boyd did.

It presents an opportunity to North. Good players, pick 1 players, club captains and reigning best and fairest players leave. Often with an unsavoury taste. But these times are opportunities, it’s what you do with them. I’m not convinced North will make good with it, but two first rounders and a good player for someone not invested is a fair return.

The debate is interesting, with arguments on both sides. But me bring me, I look at the trade opportunity for North. If they can get a good player, nail some first rounders, bring in experienced players (ie Hunter) and even solid leaders who might be passed prime (ie Wallis) to rebuild standards and culture, then this could be the change in course they need. Just not the one they wanted.

Call it Shocktober. Lose your prized player, lose talent like Thomas (for Hunter - it’s a thing!), but bring in new blood and a new coach with a heap of good picks build the culture up and go for broke. We did it. Collingwood did it last/this year, not to same height. The just need to see the opportunity and seize it. Even by their standards, Carey/Stevens was a million times worse and they got back to finals footy through the 2000’s. It’s just this ‘business’.

[Grantysghost]

You've said some cooked things on here. But 'clearly'????
Haha, too good.

I think it’s a no brainer, if you’re entertaining the former then may god have mercy upon your souls!

[jazzadogs]

It sounds like the input of his stepfather and ex-Port player Fabian Francis can't be underestimated with JHF.

I think he has made the right decision for him in moving home, to a better organisation, who are more likely to have on-field success, with pros like Boak and Wines to learn off for a couple of years. Norf's captain is Ziebell for christ's sake, who's setting the standard over there?

Also I can't see the abbreviation JHF without thinking 'Jesus H F***' - can't explain it.

[GVGjr]

Ice baths? Brisbane didn't even have ice baths! Are we really comparing what was required in the early 90's with 2022?

Was the trip 'unauthorised' - or did he just go without telling anyone. Did he know he was supposed too? Did he miss a meeting or was he late for work? Were Victorian based players from the country permitted to drive home and see their families without explanation?

North have managed this poorly. And now they are embroiled in a new round of 'messiness'. Get out of there is what I say.

Your decision if you want to try and pick apart the examples (you linked the Buckley example to Horne Francis) but it doesn't change that Buckley was regarded as someone who came to work in a club that was struggling at the time and was highly professional whereas Horne-Francis has come up short in his visit to North. It's not like Brisbane was on the cutting edge when Buckley arrived but he made the most of it.

By all means cut the player some slack when the going gets a bit tough but giving them easy outs is why we have so many talented but unproven players trying to dictate where they want to play.

[boydogs]

There's two arguments being put forward here

One is that it is in JHF's best interests to ask for a trade

The other is that JHF hasn't earned the right to ask for a trade

They are both right

[Scraggers]

Horne-Francis is right to ask for a trade.

North are a rabble - the coach he (seemingly) couldn't get along with was sacked.
The recruiters who selected him are all gone...left the club in either disgrace or as losers of a power struggle with the coach (you know, the one who was sacked!)/
They couldn't win a game. This was pretty epic stuff and they set a record for consecutive 'big' defeats...it wasn't your average 'crappy season'...it was an epic-ly crappy season.
The CEO was sacked.
They are now in the middle of the racism stuff (his Step-Father is First Nations) and no doubt he feels strongly about the issue...and there are stories about North players from 2022 being involved at Hawthorn during the period in question who he undoubtedly has a relationship with...

Careers get ruined in 1-2 years. Ask some of the high draft picks who have watched their careers turn to smoke up at Gold Coast if they wished they had acted 'sooner' to get out...or just let their value fritter away to nothing and been unable to find a new home. Ask the players who got stuck at Melbourne during the tanking era the same question...it is not good.

If I was giving him advice, I would be telling him to get out if he can...unfortunately he is a number 1 pick and this is causing a storm, but did he really have another choice?

Nathan Buckley did essentially the same thing - he is a legend of Collingwood and no-one even remembers his year at the Bears. Ditto Tom Boyd for us.


Our debt was worse, in every other department we were no where near the rabble that North are right now.

Since 1945 this is a top 10 worst season on the field not to mention all the dramas off it.

If it were my son I'd be telling him to leave that terrible work environment when i know he has other options

This is a huge issue and one that cannot be dismissed lightly. There will be a number of First Nation players extremely resistant to playing under Clarkson/Fagan or at North/Brisbane/Hawthorn. I understand that he’s 18 and not been as professional as expected, but in his family situation I totally get his step-dad telling him to walk away now

[comrade]

Can’t agree with mjp on this one. The best young kids go to the worst clubs, that’s how the draft should work (except if you’re the Bulldogs where NGA and Father/Sons rain down from the sky). Yes, the club has to provide a good environment and outline a path forward towards future success, but the kid also needs to buckle in for the ride.

In this case, it’s clear he’s not up for the challenge. It’s a big red flag for his overall attitude and my guess is he’ll end up a middling type player who turns his toes up when it gets too hard.

[mjp]

In this case, it’s clear he’s not up for the challenge.

I just don't understand how anyone can say this.

He just won their best first year player award. He was far from terrible on field...and what exactly has he done wrong?

Missed a recovery session - was dropped, played VFL...it happens to LOT'S of players (though not with the same profile). He went home to Adelaide on a long weekend...missed no training and it isn't exactly clear whether he knew he needed to inform the club or otherwise...most interstate players are FLOWN HOME by their clubs in these situations - obviously North decided he wasn't worth doing that for?

North were an absolute rabble this year and the coach who kept yelling at him...well, he got sacked. Now the racism stuff which would be so close to his heart...

I don't get the negativity. If North had bid on Daicos (who Collingwood would have taken) then Darcy (who we would have taken) he would be the #3 pick and this would be half the story. Anyways...like I said, mine is a unpopular opinion here. If you want your high picks to stay, treat them well and support them. And make that double if they're from interstate.

[comrade]

I just don't understand how anyone can say this.

He just won their best first year player award. He was far from terrible on field...and what exactly has he done wrong?

I don't get the negativity. If North had bid on Daicos (who Collingwood would have taken) then Darcy (who we would have taken) he would be the #3 pick and this would be half the story. Anyways...like I said, mine is a unpopular opinion here. If you want your high picks to stay, treat them well and support them. And make that double if they're from interstate.

None of us know how well he was treated and supported by North. The rest of their draftees aren’t leaving en masse, in fact North have done pretty well to retain their younger players over the last few years given their on field results… and if he’s after a coach that doesn’t yell, well good luck to him.

The will he/won’t he go home stuff has been going on since day 1, if the Clarkson stuff is being used as a factor for his decision, it’s likely more out of convenience than a legitimate reason (now that will be an unpopular take).

North aren’t at fault. They should have done more due diligence and never picked him in the first place.

[Scorlibo]

His step-dad being a First Nations person is reason enough to want to leave. Can only imagine the anguish at having read that story, only to know that there was a real possibility that after an investigation you'd be coached by the person at the centre of the allegations. And in the meantime, you don't have a coach.

From the outside looking in, his on field behaviour this season looked bad. I'm thinking of the berating of a club legend in Todd Goldstein. Who knows though to what extent that was resolved internally, and he's only a kid after all.

From a North point of view, they'll be compensated reasonably well, it might be slightly unders but not a disaster by any means.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I just don't understand how anyone can say this.

He just won their best first year player award. He was far from terrible on field...and what exactly has he done wrong?

Missed a recovery session - was dropped, played VFL...it happens to LOT'S of players (though not with the same profile). He went home to Adelaide on a long weekend...missed no training and it isn't exactly clear whether he knew he needed to inform the club or otherwise...most interstate players are FLOWN HOME by their clubs in these situations - obviously North decided he wasn't worth doing that for?

North were an absolute rabble this year and the coach who kept yelling at him...well, he got sacked. Now the racism stuff which would be so close to his heart...

I don't get the negativity. If North had bid on Daicos (who Collingwood would have taken) then Darcy (who we would have taken) he would be the #3 pick and this would be half the story. Anyways...like I said, mine is a unpopular opinion here. If you want your high picks to stay, treat them well and support them. And make that double if they're from interstate.

I'm a little surprised at your take on the topic.

You're asking what has JHF done wrong - which, I think there's been 'enough' to see that there's multiple issues from very early on in the piece even WITHOUT knowing the full detail - but then assuming/blaming North without any real concrete evidence?

Could North have handled things better? Probably, but to solely blame them and use them as a convenient scapegoat to protect JHF is a cop out IMO.

[Grantysghost]

This is a great discussion.


MJP for the win.

The balance between a clubs responsibility to provide a nurturing and welcoming environment v a kid feeling uneasy about his place is fascinating to me.

It's a rare occurrence I guess that's why it's such a great and timely debate.

[comrade]

His step-dad being a First Nations person is reason enough to want to leave. Can only imagine the anguish at having read that story, only to know that there was a real possibility that after an investigation you'd be coached by the person at the centre of the allegations. And in the meantime, you don't have a coach.

From the outside looking in, his on field behaviour this season looked bad. I'm thinking of the berating of a club legend in Todd Goldstein. Who knows though to what extent that was resolved internally, and he's only a kid after all.

From a North point of view, they'll be compensated reasonably well, it might be slightly unders but not a disaster by any means.

There’s been multiple public examples of behaviour that hasn’t met the standard - the Goldstein thing, some really lacklustre defensive stuff that is more about attitude and care than ability, the VFL demotion etc. This is only the stuff we’ve been privy to, I can only assume there’s more examples that have been kept behind closed doors. And this was all before Clarkson was on the scene.

Yeah, he’s a kid. But kids still know the virtues of respect, work ethic, obligation and responsibility. North will be better off without a player like him who doesn’t want to be on the bus. Can you imagine Bont or Jacko pulling the pin in October of 2014? Not a chance, those kids were up for the challenge (or were given some good advice to stick fat from their parents/advisors).

Maybe being home at Port will uncover a new level of professionalism in him, but I have my doubts. The workplace isn’t always going to be easy and fun. Pro sport is a different level of pressure again. It’s the hard times and what it drags out of you that makes you better and stronger. JHF has taken the easy way, and I won’t be surprised if he finds out easy isn’t always best.

[Topdog]

Was JHF really the only player in the league this season to miss a recovery session?

[Scorlibo]

There’s been multiple public examples of behaviour that hasn’t met the standard - the Goldstein thing, some really lacklustre defensive stuff that is more about attitude and care than ability, the VFL demotion etc. This is only the stuff we’ve been privy to, I can only assume there’s more examples that have been kept behind closed doors. And this was all before Clarkson was on the scene.

Yeah, he’s a kid. But kids still know the virtues of respect, work ethic, obligation and responsibility. North will be better off without a player like him who doesn’t want to be on the bus. Can you imagine Bont or Jacko pulling the pin in October of 2014? Not a chance, those kids were up for the challenge (or were given some good advice to stick fat from their parents/advisors).

Maybe being home at Port will uncover a new level of professionalism in him, but I have my doubts. The workplace isn’t always going to be easy and fun. Pro sport is a different level of pressure again. It’s the hard times and what it drags out of you that makes you better and stronger. JHF has taken the easy way, and I won’t be surprised if he finds out easy isn’t always best.

From David Noble (via SEN):

Noble was steadfast that Horne-Francis embraced being the number one draft pick and never showed any disinterest during their time together at North.

“He did (embrace it), very much so,” he said further.

“He was one of the most determined and driven young men I’ve had the pleasure of working with."

If anything it seems like he was in too much of a hurry to succeed and in the frustration of not getting there showed a bit of disrespect towards his teammates and the club. Not great but there are much worse problems to have as an 18 yo.

[Mofra]

Was JHF really the only player in the league this season to miss a recovery session?
Did he actually miss a session, or (as North fans state) skip an ice bath?

[Topdog]

Did he actually miss a session, or (as North fans state) skip an ice bath?

Sounded like it was just an ice bath but honestly for me the final result is irrelevant as I can guarantee he wouldnt be the only player yet he is the only 1 we hear about.

[bornadog]

I have been reading all the replies and thinking about the OP.

Players entering the draft system must be prepared to play at a club that they may not want to, and that includes playing on the other side of the country. However, if they have been treated badly and put under undue duress etc, then they should have the right to ask for a trade. It is up to the club to sort things out and accept or not the request.

I don't knowing anything about what has happened at North with JHF, but as outlined by MJP, doesn't sound good.

[DOG GOD]

At the end of the day, he was shattered to go to north…just like Buckley at bears. Neither wanted to be there. JHF would’ve had no intention of being at North in 2023 when he was drafted.

[mjp]

Neither wanted to be there. JHF would’ve had no intention of being at North in 2023 when he was drafted.

Again - disagree. I think he went with the best of intentions. But the experience at North has not been as it was advertised. I think we are all underestimating the impact of the recruiting team who SELECTED HIM leaving will have had...the relationships with those guys would have been amongst his key relationships at NM.

North have been generationally bad this year. An 18yo has been made a scapegoat for some of it. Clarkson is caught up in a scandal and if you have relationships with First Nations people then, well, THEY are the ones you would believe here. He wants out. I would too.

[DOG GOD]

Again - disagree. I think he went with the best of intentions. But the experience at North has not been as it was advertised. I think we are all underestimating the impact of the recruiting team who SELECTED HIM leaving will have had...the relationships with those guys would have been amongst his key relationships at NM.

North have been generationally bad this year. An 18yo has been made a scapegoat for some of it. Clarkson is caught up in a scandal and if you have relationships with First Nations people then, well, THEY are the ones you would believe here. He wants out. I would too.

I agree, I’d want out of there too…100%
But realistically his attitude towards the year was poor…really poor in fact. No doubt when he was drafted, port and Adelaide would’ve all been in his ear…who knows what goes on behind closed doors. You make valid points MJP, absolutely, but I don’t think he wanted to be there.

[Swoop]

With regards to the ice bath, my understanding was that he hopped in and out almost immediately and right in front of the coaches.

As someone mentioned, the fish rots from the head and you can be certain he's not doing that in front of Selwood.

The question now becomes what is fair for him? Their current first rounders (pick 8), next year's first rounders plus Bonner? What would you demand?

[Twodogs]

Maybe being home at Port will uncover a new level of professionalism in him, but I have my doubts

I agree. It's one of the things I'd be wary about if I were Port.

[Dogs 24/7]

So Port have put forward 1st round selections this year and next and Riley Boner for Jason Horne Francis. North are getting ripped off but will reluctantly accept that.

[jazzadogs]

So Port have put forward 1st round selections this year and next and Riley Boner for Jason Horne Francis. North are getting ripped off but will reluctantly accept that.

I understand why (in contract, #1 pick, only been there a year, untapped potential) but it is ridiculous to me that's seen as being ripped off but the likely deal of 2x firsts for a proven player and 25 year old AA quality midfielder is seen as reasonable.

[Topdog]

I dont see how that is ripped off either but Bonner an AA quality mid?

[jazzadogs]

I dont see how that is ripped off either but Bonner an AA quality mid?

My comparison was JHF deal vs Dunkley deal.

I think Dunks should be worth more in a trade given his proven results, and if the JHF trade is a rip-off then so is the Dunkley trade.

[hujsh]

My comparison was JHF deal vs Dunkley deal.

I think Dunks should be worth more in a trade given his proven results, and if the JHF trade is a rip-off then so is the Dunkley trade.

Potential>output... unless they're an abstract potential like a draft pick.

[Topdog]

JHF was pick 1 last year of course he needs more than Dunkley. Can play for the next 12 years vs 5.