It’s Time: Save Josh Schache

[bulldogtragic]

I’m redirecting all my powers into this until it’s done.

Right now we need four list changes. They’re already as good as done: Dunkley, Cordy, Hunter & Martin.

One or two more come from Wallis, Butler & Josh. I rank the delisting order:

Next Butler
Next Wally
Then Schache (unlikely we need 7 changes)

1. Coverage for Cordy leaving
2. Coverage if Jones body needs game management
3. Coverage for Keath’s hammies
4. Coverage for Bruce’s knee
5. With his aerobic ability, consider him on the wing as he’s second to Hunter for aerobic ability
6. If the bench goes to 5. Consider him pinch hitting for all tall roles
7. Don’t rush Darcy in if Schache is performing well enough
8. Let Lade work with him for a year
9. He’s got a point of difference to Wally and Butler and offers the list more

He’s 25. He’s experienced. He’s got great qualities and is the age to put it together. He loves the club. He is at worst good depth and cheap insurance. He’s not in favour it seems, but maybe new assistants have new perspectives.

It’s time: Save Josh Schache.

By order of BT.

[Scraggers]

I’m in; where do I sign?

[bulldogtragic]

I’m in; where do I sign?

You just.

I shall call you, number 2.

[Scraggers]

You just.

I shall call you, number 2.

There is great power with number 2s. And with powerful number 2s come great responsibility. One can not simply snap a number 2, one must slide a number 2 into position.

[EasternWest]

You just.

I shall call you, number 2.

It's not the first time Scraggers has been called a number 2.

[bulldogtragic]

It's not the first time Scraggers has been called a number 2.

For posting, you’re conscripted as Number 3. Welcome aboard. Collect your uniform, hit the bed now, and it’s drill at 0500 hours.

[bornadog]

We all want Schache to make it and he looked very good in his last two games in the VFL, but he just doesn't seem to have it when he gets to AFL level.

We talk about not cutting deep enough and yet we as supporters also don't want to lose players.

Unless we delist somemore players like Crozier, then he may be gone.

[bulldogtragic]

We all want Schache to make it and he looked very good in his last two games in the VFL, but he just doesn't seem to have it when he gets to AFL level.

We talk about not cutting deep enough and yet we as supporters also don't want to lose players.

Unless we delist somemore players like Crozier, then he may be gone.

Done Crozier is gone. Welcome aboard Number 4.

[GVGjr]

I'm in for this suggestion BT. He was very impressive at Footscray and should have been given a chance.
If we don't get Lobb we need to keep Schache.

[MrMahatma]

Schache as defensive cover is behind:

-Gardiner
-Keath
-Jones
-Buku
-O’Brien
-Darcy (prob)

I believe he’ll only get a gig if at least 3, maybe 4 of those guys are injured.

There’s no saving him. All the best Josh.

[bulldogtragic]

Learning to compete: The redemption of Josh Schache
Jake Niall

September 19, 2021 — 5.30am

Josh Schache knew what he lacked. He understood the essential element that was missing from his make-up as an AFL footballer.

Competitiveness.

Joash Schache has established himself as a key member of the Bulldogs’ line-up.

In this finals series, just the basic of “being competitive” or “making it a scrap as much as you can” has been Schache’s simple ambition, and also the instruction of his coach Luke Beveridge. Finals, Schache said, “is all contest”.

“As long as I do that, I guess that hasn’t been one of my stronger suits, like obviously in previous years, I haven’t been as competitive as what I need to be,” Schache admitted.

And so he’s competed, as directed. Forced the ball to ground. Fought for ground balls. “I’ve worked on that a hell of a lot,” he said of his competitiveness.

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To compete became his main focus. “Pretty much. Just my mindset within a game and being competitive, not just for parts of a game, but for the whole game and being more consistent with the way I do it,” Schache said.

And, then, having met those basic KPIs, he’s found the footy on the lead - as he did in a memorable performance, when the Dogs obliterated Port Adelaide.

Schache took on Port’s All-Australian key defender and interceptor Aliir Aliir, who was red-hot against Geelong in the previous final. Schache, as footage from behind the goals demonstrated, played at the back of Aliir’s shoulder, as if the Bulldog forward was a defender.

He described the Aliir assignment thus: “Putting those defensive actions into place a little bit. I just really wanted to be as competitive as I could and bring the ball to ground as much as I could ... if I couldn’t mark it.”

Beveridge’s instructions were nothing fancy: “Just being really competitive and nullifying his [Aliir’s] impact ... just being competitive and not letting him take intercepts. I was excited, yeah, by the opportunity to give it a crack.”

But Schache not only negated Aliir, he did mark the footy, quite frequently and so has become, during this finals campaign - one he mightn’t have been part of, if not for teammate Josh Bruce’s misfortune - a classic redemption story.

Schache’s role, from his testimony and what we have seen, is essentially to occupy an opposition gun defender, such as Aliir, and then hit the scoreboard if possible; if he occupies a gun defender, this also makes it easier for the mega-talented aerialist Aaron Naughton to take flight and for ruckman/forward “big Timmy” English when stationed forward.

Schache’s story has been likened to that of Tom Boyd, the 2016 premiership hero, in that he was a tall forward recruit, drafted early (pick No.2 in 2016) by a northern team (Brisbane Lions), who has flowered in a finals series.

Schache’s success, however, has been less spectacular than Boyd’s in 2016 (when he might have won the Norm Smith Medal), and has been predicated on playing his role for the team - a mantra that he repeats, over and again.

At 24, Schache says he has matured and is better able to apply himself and to cope with the rigours of AFL than he did as a teenager lumbered with great expectations, the Lions having traded him to the Bulldogs after his second season up north.

“This year, in a way, I feel I’ve matured a lot this year, coming from the hub. I feel like I was playing good footy even though I wasn’t playing in the AFL side,” said Schache, adding that he “stuck with myself and believed in myself and [knew] that once opportunity come, I’d take it.”

If Schache’s turnaround has been visible in the finals, in which he’s started as a somewhat defensive tall forward, he reckons he learned from a stint in defence late in the season, when he played a little down back in the VFL, over two weeks, and then was promoted up to play that role in round 19 against grand final opponents, the Demons.

He had never played once in defence until that quarter against North and then a half against the Swans in the VFL. Suddenly, he was playing that position against the Dees.

“It was something different and something that sort of excited me as well and sort of gave me a kick and something to look forward to coming into the club each day to learn something new,” Schache said.

Schache agreed that his time in defence had helped him play defensively in attack.

“It gives you another look on what defenders don’t like, being in defence you can see what makes it hard for a defender when a forward is playing a particular way. I guess vice-versa as well.”

One would expect, given the threat posed to the Dogs by this season’s All-Australian tall backs Steven May and Jake Lever, that Schache would find himself playing a similar role in the grand final to his Aliir assignment.

“Obviously I wouldn’t be surprised if there would be a similar role ... playing next to ‘Naughty’ and big Timmy down there as well. They’re bloody good players and can mark the ball well.”

Play your role. Compete. Bring it to ground. These are the lexicon of the role player, rather than the superstar. Schache says he always had the aerobic fitness and had to work on his speed.

Schache’s finals flourish, thus, is about meeting modest goals. Yet it’s also clear he relishes that he’s not being asked to boot four or five and be the difference.

Maturity has helped him to cope better with the scrutiny that accompanies a top two pick and young key forward.

Had the external pressures been a downer? “Yeah, I guess it’s hard not to early on, when you don’t have those coping mechanisms in place and when you don’t know how to control it to the best of your ability, it can be pretty tough.”

He wondered, at stages, if he would make it as a long-term AFL player. “I guess you always have those thoughts that come to you, to your head every - I guess you wouldn’t be human if you didn’t have them ... I feel like I’ve matured in a way, I knew I had that belief.

“I was a high pick for a reason.”


……………

Don’t cut and run. At worst he’s the best cheap insurance on the market. At best he keeps working on his game and improving In perhaps a new role.

[josie]

I really hope we keep Schache. And that Bevo plays him.

[jazzadogs]

In a perfect world, we don't have to waste any draft capital on Lobb and the dogs go wacky for Schache instead - the 2023 AA 2nd ruck/forward!!!


But we don't live in a perfect world.

Regardless, I'm in!! He should still be on our list next year regardless of other trade targets (which appear to be none).

[Bulldog Joe]

We all want Schache to make it and he looked very good in his last two games in the VFL, but he just doesn't seem to have it when he gets to AFL level.

We talk about not cutting deep enough and yet we as supporters also don't want to lose players.

Unless we delist somemore players like Crozier, then he may be gone.

Schache was more than good in the last couple at VFL level level.

He performed well at AFL level more than once, but lost his spot at the first excuse.

I want to save him but that needs a whole change of attitude from the match committee or it is simply wasting our time as well as keeping Josh in a semi permanent state of limbo.

[josie]

Agree with you Bulldog Joe.

Josh also lost his spot late in season after covid protocols too, then couldn’t get back in the side despite stellar vfl form (albeit against struggling sides). I watch the vfl and think his ruck work and 2/3 rd efforts improved heaps throughout the year,including some decent stints in the ruck. I also felt he was never given long enough to settle into backline after doing well in prelim last year. IMO different rules for Josh compared to others.

[EasternWest]

This is Danjul's moment.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

This is Danjul's moment.

I was going to post, but forget it - over to you Danjul.

[hujsh]

I was going to say something but decided against it since I was told off last time.

If anything could summon him from his absence it is this.

[chef]

Liam Jones to show him how redemption is done.

[azabob]

I’m redirecting all my powers into this until it’s done.

Right now we need four list changes. They’re already as good as done: Dunkley, Cordy, Hunter & Martin.

One or two more come from Wallis, Butler & Josh. I rank the delisting order:

Next Butler
Next Wally
Then Schache (unlikely we need 7 changes)

1. Coverage for Cordy leaving
2. Coverage if Jones body needs game management
3. Coverage for Keath’s hammies
4. Coverage for Bruce’s knee
5. With his aerobic ability, consider him on the wing as he’s second to Hunter for aerobic ability
6. If the bench goes to 5. Consider him pinch hitting for all tall roles
7. Don’t rush Darcy in if Schache is performing well enough
8. Let Lade work with him for a year
9. He’s got a point of difference to Wally and Butler and offers the list more

He’s 25. He’s experienced. He’s got great qualities and is the age to put it together. He loves the club. He is at worst good depth and cheap insurance. He’s not in favour it seems, but maybe new assistants have new perspectives.

It’s time: Save Josh Schache.

By order of BT.

To make it, it has to be as an intercepting CHB. He seemed to have a period of six weeks were this look a real option. But unfortunately for Josh we've seen this story before and for whatever reason he just can't pull it together for longer blocks.

There is not a spot up forward for him. I shudder to think if a ruckman is on top of English; what they will do to Schache. Mind you they are both are aerobic animals who can run all day and pinch hit in the ruck - Rhys Stanley and Mark Blicvas style? Obviously not the same ability or physicality but hey, baby steps.

[AshMac]

If it’s keep for peanuts or delist then keep him. Seems to be serviceable for 2-3 games a year. Has absolutely zero competitiveness and until he learns how to stick a tackle and win 1 on 1’s I don’t see the match committee changing their tune

[bulldogtragic]

Dear Chris Grant,

I have sent you all my pocket money, my only 20 cents (I know, real wages and pocket money isn't keeping with inflation but that's not my fault). Josh is my favourite player. Please don't make him leave to Port Adelaide and run a McDonald's franchise. I'm giving you all my pocket money so you stay loyal to the players who love the club as much as you, like Josh does too, and as much as me, little bulldogtragic, does. Please don't make Josh go. Tell that Sam Power to sign Josh this morning. I don't mind if you split the 20c with Sam to make it happen. Please be loyal again Mr Grant and make us all happy.

Little bulldogtragic.

[Grantysghost]

Give him a crack as a Richo type winger when Hunter leaves.

[Jasper]

He played some solid games as a defensive focused forward and we know his goal kicking is accurate. We should give him another season.

[Danjul]

We all want Schache to make it and he looked very good in his last two games in the VFL, but he just doesn't seem to have it when he gets to AFL level.

We talk about not cutting deep enough and yet we as supporters also don't want to lose players.

Unless we delist somemore players like Crozier, then he may be gone.

Schache looked ok in all his afl games after the first this year. He was the most adaptable forward/back we put on the field. But he couldn’t compete for selection, especially after someone noticed Bruce was breathing. And when Bruce had those 2 and 3 possession games we knew he was back and Schache wouldn’t be. After Bruce’s 5 possession game (massive AFL level performance) the club mindset was obvious.

[Danjul]

This is Danjul's moment.
Taken

[whythelongface]

Schache looked ok in all his afl games after the first this year. He was the most adaptable forward/back we put on the field. But he couldn’t compete for selection, especially after someone noticed Bruce was breathing. And when Bruce had those 2 and 3 possession games we knew he was back and Schache wouldn’t be. After Bruce’s 5 possession game (massive AFL level performance) the club mindset was obvious.

With respect I keep hearing it is everyone else’s fault for Schache not getting a game. There are obvious reasons that he is on the fringe. He needs to improve and show consistency in those areas and then he will cement a spot. This rests with Schache and Schache alone.

[Danjul]

With respect I keep hearing it is everyone else’s fault for Schache not getting a game. There are obvious reasons that he is on the fringe. He needs to improve and show consistency in those areas and then he will cement a spot. This rests with Schache and Schache alone.
In his time with the dogs Schache has had a few bad games. But he has been consistently good.

For example, let’s look at his disastrous 2022 season.

His last 5 games saw him playing ruck, forward and back.
His possession count: 8 10 12 12 12. Goals 5.
Reasonable and consistent.

What is the selection committee’s standard for selection?

Bruce’s 5 games: 2 3 5 9 11. Goals. 1

Schache averaged 11 possessions and a goal

but we preferred Bruce with 6 possessions and 0.2 goals.

As previous posts have shown, over the years Schache has had some fantastic AFL games for the dogs. But he has no future with them. I hope he can find a new home and get out of the doghouse.

[Axe Man]

Taken

Right. Who said Danjul's name 3 times?

[Bulldog Joe]

With respect I keep hearing it is everyone else’s fault for Schache not getting a game. There are obvious reasons that he is on the fringe. He needs to improve and show consistency in those areas and then he will cement a spot. This rests with Schache and Schache alone.

I can't agree with this.

Schache performed solidly when given an opportunity except for game 1 and the Brisbane game.

His last game was against Sydney when we were horrid, but Josh was at least OK.

He missed the next game due to Covid and never returned. Josh Bruce then played without providing anything that matched Schache's output.

[EasternWest]

Right. Who said Danjul's name 3 times?

Me. I like what Danjul has to say.

Might get him to knock us up a much needed contract thread.

[Axe Man]

Me. I like what Danjul has to say.

Might get him to knock us up a much needed contract thread.

Just announced: 10 year contracts for Schache and Sweet!

[GVGjr]

Just announced: 10 year contracts for Schache and Sweet!

You haven't heard that Lewis Young wants back as well? :)

[Scorlibo]

With Lobb looking unlikely and Cordy leaving I think there's actually a good chance of Schache getting another crack at it in 2023. He might be competing with Bruce for the forward/ruck role.

Despite the last couple of years being disappointing for him, not playing many games at the top level, from what I've seen in the VFL he's probably playing the best footy of his career. My sense is that if he weren't on an AFL list right now, he'd be touted as a possible mature age recruit, and must have been desperately close to playing in our Elimination Final.

Having said that, he's clearly not in our future plans. Naughton, JUH and Darcy are the triple threat that could see us through the next 10 years. So do we persist in the hope that he can play a role in 2023, only to move him on afterwards? I'd say yes but wouldn't be surprised or annoyed if it went the other way.

[F'scary]

In his time with the dogs Schache has had a few bad games. But he has been consistently good.

For example, let’s look at his disastrous 2022 season.

His last 5 games saw him playing ruck, forward and back.
His possession count: 8 10 12 12 12. Goals 5.
Reasonable and consistent.

What is the selection committee’s standard for selection?

Bruce’s 5 games: 2 3 5 9 11. Goals. 1

Schache averaged 11 possessions and a goal

but we preferred Bruce with 6 possessions and 0.2 goals.

As previous posts have shown, over the years Schache has had some fantastic AFL games for the dogs. But he has no future with them. I hope he can find a new home and get out of the doghouse.

I all for axing both of them, unfortunately, Bruce has one more year on his contract, so we will have to satisfy ourselves with waving goodbye to the softest big man in the comp since Ayce Cordy.

[bulldogtragic]

Would be ironic that we fail to land a ruckman (Grundy, Meek etc), if we fail to land Lobb, as well as Cordy exiting after knocking back our contract, and then another club gives a contract to Josh and we are trying to convince him to stay because our best laid plans...?

Do the deal Sam, a one year extension. Lock it in today.

[Axe Man]

Would be ironic that we fail to land a ruckman (Grundy, Meek etc), if we fail to land Lobb, as well as Cordy exiting after knocking back our contract, and then another club gives a contract to Josh and we are trying to convince him to stay because our best laid plans...?

Do the deal Sam, a one year extension. Lock it in today.

Why on earth would we lock him in before trade period is over? That would be serious mismanagement. I'm not against re-signing him but lets see how everything plays out first.

[bulldogtragic]

Why on earth would we lock him in before trade period is over? That would be serious mismanagement. I'm not against re-signing him but lets see how everything plays out first.

Don't agree with 'mismanagement'. I see the need to turnover 6 spots. Being Dunkley, Hunter, Cordy, Martin, Wallis & Butler.

If you see it from my vantage, I don't see the risk to us. The risk from this vantage is weighted to him leaving. Right now it's a one year deal on limited cash. I'd lock that down now.

The subtle hint to Freo is that we are working beyond their nonsense on Lobb. We aren't making our entire list management strategy around needing Freo to demand, expect and/or receive, a king's ransom for Lobb, if they do decide to trade.

[Jasper]

I can't agree with this.

Schache performed solidly when given an opportunity except for game 1 and the Brisbane game.

His last game was against Sydney when we were horrid, but Josh was at least OK.

He missed the next game due to Covid and never returned. Josh Bruce then played without providing anything that matched Schache's output.

The Covid miss unfortunately timed with the unsuccessful return of Bruce into the seniors and that was the reason why he was at Footscray where he performed as well as could be expected. Beveridge appears to rate effort more than skill and talent but we will have a team of plodders with good intentions if we keep following that.

[Axe Man]

Don't agree with 'mismanagement'. I see the need to turnover 6 spots. Being Dunkley, Hunter, Cordy, Martin, Wallis & Butler.

If you see it from my vantage, I don't see the risk to us. The risk from this vantage is weighted to him leaving. Right now it's a one year deal on limited cash. I'd lock that down now.

The subtle hint to Freo is that we are working beyond their nonsense on Lobb. We aren't making our entire list management strategy around needing Freo to demand, expect and/or receive, a king's ransom for Lobb, if they do decide to trade.

What is the advantage in doing it now as opposed to waiting 1 week? Unless Schache was fielding other offers (and there is zero indication he is), there is only downside. Fringe players are often made to wait until after trade week when list spots are known. What if a last minute opportunity comes up but we are hamstrung by having rushed to sign Schache without any good reason?

[bulldogtragic]

What is the advantage in doing it now as opposed to waiting 1 week? Unless Schache was fielding other offers (and there is zero indication he is), there is only downside. Fringe players are often made to wait until after trade week when list spots are known. What if a last minute opportunity comes up but we are hamstrung by having rushed to sign Schache without any good reason?

Pay out Crozier.

[Axe Man]

Pay out Crozier.

Or wait 1 week and avoid knifing a guy who has likely done nothing wrong other than lose form. It's a dangerous message to send to prospective players and agents unless there is a good reason.

[bulldogtragic]

Or wait 1 week and avoid knifing a guy who has likely done nothing wrong other than lose form. It's a dangerous message to send to prospective players and agents unless there is a good reason.

How I meant to put peer group pressure on Sam Power to sign Josh up today, without peer group pressure?

[Topdog]

Bruce should have played a maximum of 2 games this season, that was a terrible selection.

[Swoop]

Please don't shoot me down but for Josh's sake, I hope he gets an opportunity elsewhere. I don't think we'll see his best in Bulldog colours.

If he played every game he could quite possibly end up a 40 goal forward. Unfortunately, Bevo and the match committee value other attributes as equal to, if not more important than goalkicking. This isn't my belief but as we've seen with the selection of Bruce this year, the ability to compete and impact the contest is valued at a premium. It is the same reason Josh has failed to earn consistent opportunities and why he is continually overlooked.

I am not saying this is right, but we're not going to see the best of Josh. I hope he lands at a club that believes in him and gives him a good run because he is definitely capable.

I would love for him to stay and prove the doubters wrong but I don't think we'll give him the opportunity.

[Go_Dogs]

Schache is the type of player who will have a couple of years where he significantly outperforms his “norm” between ages 27-31 and ends up being a difference maker for a team that’s nearly there into a contender. Id back him in.

[Danjul]

Schache is the type of player who will have a couple of years where he significantly outperforms his “norm” between ages 27-31 and ends up being a difference maker for a team that’s nearly there into a contender. Id back him in.
Long term thinking, hmm interesting. But you are only half correct.

We are desperate to get Lobb. I assume they are throwing everything possible into grabbing this match winning superstar. And for good reason. We all saw him kick 4 goals against us a few weeks ago. I was there.

But let’s go back a bit, to 2019/2020.

Lobb played 32 games as a forward. In the two years he kicked a total of 23 goals. A breakdown of the performance shows:

he was goalless in 15 and scored one goal in 12.

That’s correct, in 27 games he contributed 12 goals.

In round 19 (3 years ago) , against the Dogs he had 11 possessions and 1 goal. He seems to have his best games against us.

During those same two years Schache had 16 games, kicked 26 goals and was assigned to the scrap heap.


Three years ago Schache was better than Lobb. (1.6 goals per game versus 0.7) As a forward, Possibly twice as good.

We have to look to the future but there’s nothing Schache can do to be in it.

Going back to the game at Marvel a few weeks ago. Lobb was ok. He got 4 goals from 7 possessions. He wasn’t a superstar, the Dogs were crap.

[Prince Imperial]

Long term thinking, hmm interesting. But you are only half correct.

We are desperate to get Lobb. I assume they are throwing everything possible into grabbing this match winning superstar. And for good reason. We all saw him kick 4 goals against us a few weeks ago. I was there.

But let’s go back a bit, to 2019/2020.

Lobb played 32 games as a forward. In the two years he kicked a total of 23 goals. A breakdown of the performance shows:

he was goalless in 15 and scored one goal in 12.

That’s correct, in 27 games he contributed 12 goals.

In round 19 (3 years ago) , against the Dogs he had 11 possessions and 1 goal. He seems to have his best games against us.

During those same two years Schache had 16 games, kicked 26 goals and was assigned to the scrap heap.


Three years ago Schache was better than Lobb. (1.6 goals per game versus 0.7) As a forward, Possibly twice as good.

We have to look to the future but there’s nothing Schache can do to be in it.

Going back to the game at Marvel a few weeks ago. Lobb was ok. He got 4 goals from 7 possessions. He wasn’t a superstar, the Dogs were crap.

I'm not anti-Schache and not fussed if we don't get Rory but Lobb in those years was also doing a lot of ruck work. In 2019, he averaged 21 hit outs per match; Josh had 19 for the season!

[Danjul]

I'm not anti-Schache and not fussed if we don't get Rory but Lobb in those years was also doing a lot of ruck work. In 2019, he averaged 21 hit outs per match; Josh had 19 for the season!
True, I should have added that.