WB Game Day V Hawthorn R22 2023 Sun 13/8, 1:10pm - UTAS Stadium

[Grantysghost]

Gee that looked high on Dale.

[bulldogtragic]

Nice way to finish the season…

[Mantis]

Got what we deserved… didn’t play for 45min and it cost us big time.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Sack Beveridge, trade Smith and Macrae.

Smith is bog average and worthless.

[JanLorMill]

Too little too late

[Grantysghost]

Good to see Taylor happy and hanging out with his old mates after the game.

[angelopetraglia]

Tell me umpires don’t impact the game? What a joke. Destroyed in the third quarter 12 frees to 1. All the big moments in the last quarter go against us.

[azabob]

English kicking in… can someone please explain

[JanLorMill]

No worries we will beat Geelong in Geelong

[Funke disco]

We can’t play for 10 minutes in the second half and expect a win

[kruder]

This group is mentally weak there is no doubt about it. Time for a change unfortunately.

[G-Mo77]

Yeah, let's joke around with them post game. Shows how much it means to them.

[josie]

Encapsulates our season. If the players can put their foot on the accelerator in last 15 mins why couldn?t they put effort like that in after Libba went down? Oh well. Pity as it is such an open season.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Got what we deserved… didn’t play for 45min and it cost us big time.

Didn’t play for 3 quarters. It was disgraceful.

[ledge]

Got what we deserved… didn’t play for 45min and it cost us big time.

Been doing it since 2021 grand final.
Every year under Bevo he hasn’t been able to fix it.

[Sedat]

English kicking in. Wtf
What the hell was that? Not English's fault but how did that happen?

There is no more frustrating team than us.

[Grantysghost]

Yeah, let's joke around with them post game. Shows how much it means to them.

Duryea grinds my gears.

[Grantysghost]

What the hell was that? Not English's fault but how did that happen?

There is no more frustrating team than us.

I thought it was ok we got the ball to the wing, be nice if the ump saw Dale get his head ripped off.

[azabob]

Duryea grinds my gears.

I never knew that…

[DOG GOD]

Could we give Hardwick a call ?

[angelopetraglia]

We have lost how many games after being at least 20 points up?

[Scorlibo]

Too little too late. We vanished from the game for two and a half quarters.

[DOG GOD]

Can we get rid of Bailey smith and macrae and get 2 players like Newcombe please.

[jeemak]

We are the worst team to follow at times.

[Sedat]

I thought it was ok we got the ball to the wing, be nice if the ump saw Dale get his head ripped off.
Give it to Richards to repeat the play from 2 minutes ago on the other wing.

It's all moot, we shouldn't have gotten ourselves in such a pickle in the first place. We are an untrustworthy team who cannot handle expectation.

[bulldogtragic]

We are the worst team to follow at times.

The worst Jerry. The worst.

[ledge]

I wish the umps told us the rule change that hawks can throw it , hand it to each other . Hold onto it and do 360s and we can’t. Oh and head high hits on anyone in red white and blue is play on or a free kick to the hawks.

[angelopetraglia]

Exactly like the GWS game. We only get 10 free kicks for the game. 10? They got 19.

We went missing for large stretches. The result is on us. But the umpiring was horrific.

[josie]

Sack Beveridge, trade Smith and Macrae.

Smith is bog average and worthless.

Macrae tries his guts out but yeah he is slow. Smith has really stagnated. Will be an interesting off season that’s for sure. We’ve picked up some good recruits in Liam J., Poulter and O’Donnell and I know some will not agree I think Lobb has been ok. West has cemented best 22. We really tail off though-VDM, Arty was a non factor. Bont & Libba reliable. Can’t think of other positives.

[Eastdog]

So disappointing.

Hawks brought the pressure and their midfield got way more on top than ours. Libba going out did not help as we missed him. Once again start off well 1st quarter then fluff it for the rest of the match. Responded right in the end but where was that earlier in the game.

Must win now next week against the Eagles then against the Cats in the final round and hope some results go our way.

[ledge]

I used to ask for help at work and there was one guy you hoped they didn’t give you as he was an expert at looking like he was doing a lot but actually made your job harder .
That’s VDM .

[lemmon]

Lucky to be as close as we were. When you can't win the footy at the source and you can't transition the ball from D50, you're not winning many games of footy.

[Boots]

I turned the game on an hour late, and only made it halfway through the third quarter before checking the score and turning it off. Another stodgy and squalid performance.

We lost Libba, and the hawks disrupted our defence with macguiness. You can’t plan for the former. Despite that, Richards was brilliant, Bont was Bont, Caleb did Caleb things in an ok fashion. JOD was good… everyone else was kinda bland.

I don’t love our habit of throwing the last three games of the season. I’m tired of losing close games. Extremely bored of how this team plays, dropping off steadily after q1. It’s an improvement on not showing up to play q1 but it a not much of one.

I have some questions.

why can’t we tackle in a way that doesn’t let the opponent get the ball out?

when we are tackled, why can’t we get the ball out the way other teams seem to?

why does English tap the ball to opponents most of the time?

why do we kick to running players in a way that makes them stop or slow down, robbing ourselves of run, but kick over the heads of our stationary targets, setting up the interceptor?

why do we so rarely run in Packs?

Are these flaws as basic as they seem?

[Sedat]

The worst Jerry. The worst.
We are a dishonest team. The opposite of consistency and reliability.

That last 10 minutes is even more infuriating compared against the dross of the previous 60 minutes. Talent is clearly there but it is being wasted - not sure if the players or the coaches are at fault.

[bulldogtragic]

We are a dishonest team. The opposite of consistency and reliability.

That last 10 minutes is even more infuriating compared against the dross of the previous 60 minutes. Talent is clearly there but it is being wasted - not sure if the players or the coaches are at fault.

We deserve everything we get unless we change things up.

[angelopetraglia]

Our last three losses.

2 points
5 points
3 points

[Grantysghost]

I don't blame the umps it's a tough gig, I thought this non call was a big moment though.

Free kick we are in our forward 50.

https://i.postimg.cc/hPNgJW9H/Screenshot-20230813-155328.png (https://postimages.org/)

[Eastdog]

Our last three losses.

2 points
5 points
3 points

Make it hurt even more right now being so close in those games yet so far.

[Eastdog]

We need the Matildas to give our team some inspiration in the close moments.

[Boots]

Our last three losses.

2 points
5 points
3 points

this is complete garbage

[angelopetraglia]

Our last four losses by a collective 22 points. Just can’t get it done when it counts under pressure.

[bulldogtragic]

Our last three losses.

2 points
5 points
3 points

After good sized leads…

[angelopetraglia]

We conceded 121 more possessions. How is that possible?

[bulldogtragic]

We conceded 121 more possessions. How is that possible?

Because it was a game where could control our own destiny.

[Grantysghost]

We conceded 121 more possessions. How is that possible?

It was a smashing around the ground.

Felt like they had us in ground balls and the aerial game.

Quite amazing it was so close.

[whythelongface]

The worst Jerry. The worst.

Of course it can be painful but at least we aren?t St Kilda.

[bulldogtragic]

Of course it can be painful but at least we aren?t St Kilda.

The team looking to capitalise on our loss today? (And 5 goals up right now to do it)

[angelopetraglia]

First game of the year where Naughton didn’t kick a goal either. Had his chances. Symbolic of what happened today. He took two mark of the week contenders 20m out and missed both.

He kicks one of those and we win.

[bulldogtragic]

First game of the year where Naughton didn’t kick a goal either. Had his chances. Symbolic of what happened today. He took two mark of the week contenders 20m out and missed both.

He kicks one of those and we win.

Over a million dollar player you’re talking about.

[D Mitchell]

Of course it can be painful but at least we aren?t St Kilda.

...which is leading by 35 points as I post

[GVGjr]

We normally get beaten by teams that have match winners who turn it on against us but today the Hawks just had a bunch on single goal kickers today but just played smarter and harder football than we did.

That's a very worrying component about today, it wasn't someone like Bruest or Lewis kicking 4 goals and carrying their team.

[Grantysghost]

We normally get beaten by teams that have match winners who turn it on against us but today the Hawks just had a bunch on single goal kickers today but just played smarter and harder football than we did.

That's a very worrying component about today, it wasn't someone like Bruest or Lewis kicking 4 goals and carrying their team.

Newcombe got off the leash I thought he won the game.
40 touches, he did what he pleased.

[bulldogtragic]

Newcombe got off the leash I thought he won the game.
40 touches, he did what he pleased.

I like our No tagging coach. Just need to focus on us.

[angelopetraglia]

Of the top 13 possession winners on the ground we had two!!! Two.

Richards and Bont.

That’s it. Only one mid has had more 20 touches.

[merantau]

We "flatter to deceive". It's maddening. With so much to play for we fold like a paper knapkin. We constantly butcher chances to gap the opposition and then we give up a soft goal to keep them in the game.

That 3rd quarter was deplorable. I have no idea what the answer is. If by a miracle we make the 8 after a sterling win in the last game and make the 8, it would not surprise if we failed to turn up in rhe Elimination Final (again)

[Rocket Science]

We normally get beaten by teams that have match winners who turn it on against us but today the Hawks just had a bunch on single goal kickers today but just played smarter and harder football than we did.

That's a very worrying component about today, it wasn't someone like Bruest or Lewis kicking 4 goals and carrying their team.


Whatever the quirks there's nothing remotely new about watching another opponent happily absorb a few early blows from us, confident there'll be no knockout, before making the requisite adjustments with equal confidence there'll be negligible pushback.

We're never more vulnerable than when we go in at quarter time feeling good about ourselves. It's precisely where opponents want us.

[josie]

We "flatter to deceive". It's maddening. With so much to play for we fold like a paper knapkin. We constantly butcher chances to gap the opposition and then we give up a soft goal to keep them in the game.

That 3rd quarter was deplorable. I have no idea what the answer is. If by a miracle we make the 8 after a sterling win in the last game and make the 8, it would not surprise if we failed to turn up in the Elimination Final (again)

I cannot see us winning an EF and it’s unlikely we’ll win in Geelong. We are just too fickle. Close but no cigar should be our epitaph. It’s been that way since 2016. Some big list and other changes needed.

[merantau]

"You CANNOT let a player like Newcome run around on his own. Anyone, who had NO knowledge of football but had seen a couple of Hawthorn games would recognise immediately that he is a dangerous player."

I posted the above at half time. Why wasn't something done about him? I guess the answer is, other than Libba, we don't have anyone who can play that role.

[Mofra]

I like our No tagging coach. Just need to focus on us.
He did tag - but he chose the wrong tagger (Treloar) and waited until after half time.

[G-Mo77]

Of the top 13 possession winners on the ground we had two!!! Two.

Richards and Bont.

That’s it. Only one mid has had more 20 touches.

I looked at the stats late in the game and thought the app hadn't refreshed.

[Mofra]

"You CANNOT let a player like Newcome run around on his own. Anyone, who had NO knowledge of football but had seen a couple of Hawthorn games would recognise immediately that he is a dangerous player."

I posted the above at half time. Why wasn't something done about him? I guess the answer is, other than Libba, we don't have anyone who can play that role.
Bailey Smith did a great job on Cripps. Bailey Smith on current form is lucky to be in the team right now.

[SonofScray]

We "flatter to deceive". It's maddening. With so much to play for we fold like a paper knapkin. We constantly butcher chances to gap the opposition and then we give up a soft goal to keep them in the game.

That 3rd quarter was deplorable. I have no idea what the answer is. If by a miracle we make the 8 after a sterling win in the last game and make the 8, it would not surprise if we failed to turn up in rhe Elimination Final (again)
There’s a very clear answer, sack our Premiership winning, tired, stale, distracted, overworked, under resourced, unlucky, brilliant, stubborn, overbearing, supportive coach. Whatever words you have him, good or bad. That’s the way forward.

His time at the club is up.

[The bulldog tragician]

I don’t know what to say but that was unacceptable.

[Grantysghost]

There’s a very clear answer, sack our Premiership winning, tired, stale, distracted, overworked, under resourced, unlucky, brilliant, stubborn, overbearing, supportive coach. Whatever words you have him, good or bad. That’s the way forward.

His time at the club is up.

Do you have a plan B?

[ledge]

Do you have a plan B?

I guess the question is who comes in as the new coach.

[Grantysghost]

I guess the question is who comes in as the new coach.

Bevo

[GVGjr]

I didn't get anything out of the press conference. I suspect he is hurting a lot at the moment.

[bulldogtragic]

I didn't get anything out of the press conference. I suspect he is hurting a lot at the moment.

What can he say? We shit the bed again. We know.

[G-Mo77]

I guess the question is who comes in as the new coach.

2yrs on his contract, signed way too early. We can't change things up now, our hands are tied.

[SonofScray]

Do you have a plan B?

Do plan A better.

[bulldogtragic]

2yrs on his contract, signed way too early. We can't change things up now, our hands are tied.

This is our eternal problem. Bubba must be livid he didn’t get an early extension.

[Grantysghost]

Do plan A better.

Like Bevo tries to do :)

[G-Mo77]

This is our eternal problem. Bubba must be livid he didn’t get an early extension.

Why couldn't we wait? There would have been nothing wrong with waiting to see what we were looking like at say, the half way point and weigh it up. We jumped out, signed him, like all our fringe players, and now we're stuck. Coaching doesn't just need change but playing group does also, heads need to roll in both areas.

[bulldogtragic]

Why couldn't we wait? There would have been nothing wrong with waiting to see what we were looking like at say, the half way point and weigh it up. We jumped out, signed him, like all our fringe players, and now we're stuck. Coaching doesn't just need change but playing group does also, heads need to roll in both areas.

I don’t know. I think we overrate almost everything we’ve been doing and drunk our own bath water a bit. We expected results that haven’t come and now we are stuck. While actively stitching up new deals for VDM, Keath, TOB and apparently Duryea.

Hard to fell like things are honing to change. Especially while we keep choking the same way every second week.

[SonofScray]

Like Bevo tries to do :)

Tries.

[bulldogtragic]

Tries.

And fails.

[bornadog]

Complete blame on this loss is on the players. They were either not good enough, or didn't put the effort it when it was needed.

[Grantysghost]

Complete blame on this loss is on the players. They were either not good enough, or didn't put the effort it when it was needed.

And we lost the guy the opposition identified as our most influential midfielder. We were winning prior to that.
Scarily exposed for inside mid depth.
Thought we missed Dunks today more than any other game all season.

[GVGjr]

This will be a hugely unpopular take on today's game and a couple of other close losses but Twodogs and I are discussing how much we miss Dunkley in those clutch moments.

[GVGjr]

And we lost the guy the opposition identified as our most influential midfielder. We were winning prior to that.
Scarily exposed for inside mid depth.
Thought we missed Dunks today more than any other game all season.

Hah, just said the same with Twodogs.

[azabob]

And we lost the guy the opposition identified as our most influential midfielder. We were winning prior to that.
Scarily exposed for inside mid depth.
Thought we missed Dunks today more than any other game all season.


This will be a hugely unpopular take on today's game and a couple of other close losses but Twodogs and I are discussing how much we miss Dunkley in those clutch moments.

Ok. GG is TD

[DOG GOD]

Complete blame on this loss is on the players. They were either not good enough, or didn't put the effort it when it was needed.

We looked slow, couldn?t tackle, fumbled, had no work ethic for majority of the game. Our ?overrated? mids were slaughtered by guys who were workmanlike and team orientated.
Look at both teams on paper. We should?ve won by 10 goals, but we have a prima Donna list who are too scared to play angry and get their hands dirty. When Libba went off that was pretty much it. We are in desperate need of a Tom green type and a butters running type who can use the ball.

Also, if we didn?t get Liam Jones at the start of the year we would probably be sitting around 15th

Big decisions on the club needs to be made, but we don?t have the balls to do it.

[bulldogtragic]

And we lost the guy the opposition identified as our most influential midfielder. We were winning prior to that.
Scarily exposed for inside mid depth.
Thought we missed Dunks today more than any other game all season.

Shouldn’t Smith have then excelled with the extra time in the middle. Did we miss Dunks or get SFA from Smith?

[bulldogtragic]

We looked slow, couldn’t tackle, fumbled, had no work ethic for majority of the game. Our “overrated” mids were slaughtered by guys who were workmanlike and team orientated.
Look at both teams on paper. We should’ve won by 10 goals, but we have a prima Donna list who are too scared to play angry and get their hands dirty. When Libba went off that was pretty much it. We are in desperate need of a Tom green type and a butters running type who can use the ball.

Also, if we didn’t get Liam Jones at the start of the year we would probably be sitting around 15th

What happens if Jones gets injured or falls of a cliff form wise next year?

[angelopetraglia]

Just watched the presser. It was short one. Bevo absolutely flat as a tack. Respectful. Answered all the questions but he just looked flat and angry.

The main takeaway for me is what was quite obvious. They killed us at the coal face all day, they broke too many tackles and important disputed balls they won too many that resulted in them controlling the game.

[DOG GOD]

What happens if Jones gets injured or falls of a cliff form wise next year?

I don’t even wanna think about it.

It’s been our Achilles heel and unless we get someone better than Gardner, Keath, JOD and Darcy, we are screwed.

[bulldogtragic]

Just watched the presser. It was short one. Bevo absolutely flat as a tack. Respectful. Answered all the questions but he just looked flat and angry.

The main takeaway for me is what was quite obvious. They killed us at the coal face all day, they broke too many tackles and important disputed balls they won too many that resulted in them controlling the game.

In reflection, how much of it is on Bevo when we were just not up for the fight today? They literally bullied us around the ball.

Isn’t that Bevo’s job to get them up for the fight? To have a message that gets through to the players?

If Bevo can’t get them up for the chance to play finals and/or they aren’t aren’t listening to his message. What’s the answer?

[Grantysghost]

Ok. GG is TD

I can only aspire to be as great AB.

[angelopetraglia]

Isn’t that Bevo’s job to get them up for the fight? To have a message that gets through to the players?

If Bevo css add my get them up for the chance to play finals and/or they aren’t aren’t listening to his message. What’s the answer?

They seemed to be up for the fight early. Game plan was looking OK too. If Naughton converted from 20m out at the start of the second quarter we would have been 28 points up.

Everything stops with the head coach. Especially when he has been there putting his finger prints on the place for a decade. He basically owns everything. But I think a number of players really let him down today.

[bulldogtragic]

They seemed to be up for the fight early. Game plan was looking OK too. If Naughton converted from 20m out at the start of the second quarter we would have been 28 points up.

Everything stops with the head coach. Especially when he has been there putting his finger prints on the place for a decade. He basically owns everything. But I think a number of players really let him down today.

So what do we do? It’s not a once off. If the players aren’t listening, get rid of a bunch and replace them with better listeners? Or get a new voice and message?

[Go_Dogs]

It was a smashing around the ground.

Felt like they had us in ground balls and the aerial game.

Quite amazing it was so close.

It was like the opposite of our usual games.

Hawks dominated play and territory and we nearly stole it (usually our opps do steal it) with a few moments of efficient brilliance.

We are such a weird side.

Disappointing to lose that?. Feels like another wasted year. Hawkers rebuild looking v v good too sadly.

[Go_Dogs]

Do you have a plan B?

Pretty sure there is no such thing

[EasternWest]

https://i.postimg.cc/9FSjf5vt/images-11.jpg

How I feel reading this thread and others and people complaining about the free kick count while ignoring the fact that in the third quarter when we desperately needed someone to stand up Bontempelli was missing in action.

Whenever the free kick count goes in our favour we always talk about how "we were first to the ball" and the Hawks were first to the ball all day today and now we whinge?

The thing is the Hawks were about as good as they could be today and we were terrible and they only won by three points. If we were just not terrible we would have won.

I love Bont more than most things in life, but his vanishing act today was nowhere near good enough and I don't know how he's escaping scrutiny, let alone getting votes.

[bornadog]

https://i.postimg.cc/9FSjf5vt/images-11.jpg

How I feel reading this thread and others and people complaining about the free kick count while ignoring the fact that in the third quarter when we desperately needed someone to stand up Bontempelli was missing in action.

Missing also other mids

[The Bulldogs Bite]

https://i.postimg.cc/9FSjf5vt/images-11.jpg

How I feel reading this thread and others and people complaining about the free kick count while ignoring the fact that in the third quarter when we desperately needed someone to stand up Bontempelli was missing in action.

Whenever the free kick count goes in our favour we always talk about how "we were first to the ball" and the Hawks were first to the ball all day today and now we whinge?

The thing is the Hawks were about as good as they could be today and we were terrible and they only won by three points. If we were just not terrible we would have one.

I love Bont more than most things in life, but his vanishing act today was nowhere near good enough and I don't know how he's escaping scrutiny, let alone getting votes.

Good post.

By contrast, Newcombe destroyed us.

It's hard to believe that with the season on the line, we again lose to a bottom 4 side. Except it isn't hard to believe because that's exactly what this group of players are good at.

[EasternWest]

Missing also other mids

First response: absolving Bont.

Just say it. Just admit it. He failed us today.

When we need someone to grab the game by the scruff I expect the captain to lead, I don't expect others to fill the void in his absence.

I found myself thinking in the third quarter today how much I'd love to have Lenny Hayes in our side right then.

[Grantysghost]

https://i.postimg.cc/9FSjf5vt/images-11.jpg

How I feel reading this thread and others and people complaining about the free kick count while ignoring the fact that in the third quarter when we desperately needed someone to stand up Bontempelli was missing in action.

Whenever the free kick count goes in our favour we always talk about how "we were first to the ball" and the Hawks were first to the ball all day today and now we whinge?

The thing is the Hawks were about as good as they could be today and we were terrible and they only won by three points. If we were just not terrible we would have won.

I love Bont more than most things in life, but his vanishing act today was nowhere near good enough and I don't know how he's escaping scrutiny, let alone getting votes.

https://i.postimg.cc/tJ9ckGLX/Screenshot-20230813-194031.png (https://postimages.org/)

[angelopetraglia]

Bont went missing? For Bulldogs.

Equal most touches
Most tackles
Most contested possessions
Most clearances
Most inside 50s
Most metres gained
Equal most centre clearances
Second most score involvements

[angelopetraglia]

In the third quarter.

Hawthorn had 16 players get more possessions than any Bulldog players.

Let’s repeat that, because I don’t think it would even be possible.

In the third quarter, 16 Hawthorn players touched the ball more than the Bulldog player who has the most possessions for that quarter!!!!!!!

No Bulldog player had more than four touches.

[bulldogtragic]

In the third quarter.

Hawthorn had 16 players get more possessions than any Bulldog players.

Let’s repeat that, because I don’t think it would even be possible.

In the third quarter, 16 Hawthorn players touched the ball more than the Bulldog player who has the most possessions for that quarter!!!!!!!

No Bulldog player had more than four touches.

What did Bevo say at half time?

[kruder]

We all live in hope, but unfortunately we keep getting the same answer this year, when exam time comes around we get a C+ every time.

That was one of the worst tackling performances I have ever seen from a side today, pressure was pathetic at times, its really hard to contemplate how bad we are at the basics of the game and considering what was on the line is was even more disappointing.

There is no doubt we need change at the club, bringing in a few new players won't do it, trading Bailey Smith won't help.There is no doubt the players need a new voice but unfortunately the management and the board didn't have the fortitude over the summer to make things right.

I know it sounds like I wan't Bevo out, I actually really hope he lifts another cup with us but now we are in the difficult situation at seasons end of not knowing where we are at. Sound familiar to the end of 2022? It's ground hog day at the Kennel.

[EasternWest]

Bont went missing? For Bulldogs.

Equal most touches
Most tackles
Most contested possessions
Most clearances
Most inside 50s
Most metres gained
Equal most centre clearances
Second most score involvements


In the third quarter.

Hawthorn had 16 players get more possessions than any Bulldog players.

Let’s repeat that, because I don’t think it would even be possible.

In the third quarter, 16 Hawthorn players touched the ball more than the Bulldog player who has the most possessions for that quarter!!!!!!!

No Bulldog player had more than four touches.

Thankyou for proving my point.

[Grantysghost]

In the third quarter.

Hawthorn had 16 players get more possessions than any Bulldog players.

Let’s repeat that, because I don’t think it would even be possible.

In the third quarter, 16 Hawthorn players touched the ball more than the Bulldog player who has the most possessions for that quarter!!!!!!!

No Bulldog player had more than four touches.

Insane. I said on the MD thread at half time the most important quarter of the season is coming up and we absolutely blew our lines.
No goals with the wind, completely out played with the Hawks keeping possession. Deary me.

[angelopetraglia]

Thankyou for proving my point.

He can’t do it all. This is AFL, not the NBA.

Where were his friends? He had no help at all. A fine effort, that he topped every important stat for us tells you what you need to know. No one else remotely stood up.

[EasternWest]

He can’t do it all. This is AFL, not the NBA.

Where were his friends? He had no help at all. A fine effort, that he topped every important stat for us tells you what you need to know. No one else remotely stood up.

I think you make a good point, but actually he can do it. The stats you highlighted literally say he can do it.

He just didn't do it when it really, really, really needed to. And I'm disappointed with that.

[Mantis]

https://i.postimg.cc/9FSjf5vt/images-11.jpg

How I feel reading this thread and others and people complaining about the free kick count while ignoring the fact that in the third quarter when we desperately needed someone to stand up Bontempelli was missing in action.

Whenever the free kick count goes in our favour we always talk about how "we were first to the ball" and the Hawks were first to the ball all day today and now we whinge?

The thing is the Hawks were about as good as they could be today and we were terrible and they only won by three points. If we were just not terrible we would have won.

I love Bont more than most things in life, but his vanishing act today was nowhere near good enough and I don't know how he's escaping scrutiny, let alone getting votes.

Didn?t realise we were a ****ing one man show?

Where the **** were the likes of Treloar, Macrae, Smith and Daniel?? Bont has carried our sorry arses for way too long and to expect him to carry the rest of the mids, who are either members of the leadership group or in our highest 6-8 paid, who all played like shit is heading down the wrong path on the blame train.

[EasternWest]

Didn?t realise we were a ****ing one man show?

Where the **** were the likes of Treloar, Macrae, Smith and Daniel?? Bont has carried our sorry arses for way too long and to expect him to carry the rest of the mids, who are either members of the leadership group or in our highest 6-8 paid, who all played like shit is heading down the wrong path on the blame train.

How so?

It's the big moments when the top dog says enough is enough.

That doesn't invalidate your point about the supporting crew, but a total absence by all of them in the third was led by him.

[Scorlibo]

How so?

It's the big moments when the top dog says enough is enough.

That doesn't invalidate your point about the supporting crew, but a total absence by all of them in the third was led by him.

Fair enough that the Bont cops some criticism - all of the players need to take responsibility for that vanishing act, most of all him as the skipper, but imo it's more in the sense of his on field leadership rather than his personal performance, which was as good as it could have been in the circumstances.

We needed to inject some bastard into the game when the chips were down. That's the kind of leadership that Libba would usually bring and in his absence very few others stood up, including Bont.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Fair enough that the Bont cops some criticism - all of the players need to take responsibility for that vanishing act, most of all him as the skipper, but imo it's more in the sense of his on field leadership rather than his personal performance, which was as good as it could have been in the circumstances.

We needed to inject some bastard into the game when the chips were down. That's the kind of leadership that Libba would usually bring and in his absence very few others stood up, including Bont.

Yeah that's my one criticism (besides goal kicking) of Bont. Wouldn't be such an issue if we had multiple enforcers, but aside from Libba we have none, so it would be nice to see Bont take it up physically to the opposition.

It's why I love Maynard. Real tough bastard that will do what it takes to try and stem the flow of a game. Unfortunately this group just puts its feet up for the most part when it's going against them.

[Rocket Science]

Too often our vibe is a bunch of nice guys happy playing nice football gee isn't this fun high five until we get punched in the face and we reliably react like it's the last thing we were expecting.

It's part of what makes this group hard to love, frankly.

[Vred]

Statistically, our worst game since 2013 for disposals, and worst game since 2015 for F50 groundball gets, also one of the worst games in the Bevo era for pressure.

Something stinks.

[G-Mo77]

Statistically, our worst game since 2013 for disposals, and worst game since 2015 for F50 groundball gets, also one of the worst games in the Bevo era for pressure.

Something stinks.

Players just don't care. It's on their terms or it's not worth doing. They were all smiles and laughs post game with the Hawks players, not many looked disappointed after the loss.

[Mavericks]

Statistically, our worst game since 2013 for disposals, and worst game since 2015 for F50 groundball gets, also one of the worst games in the Bevo era for pressure.

Something stinks.
Just wonder what impact if any Rohan been given the flick have on the group.

[Grantysghost]

Didn?t realise we were a ****ing one man show?

Where the **** were the likes of Treloar, Macrae, Smith and Daniel?? Bont has carried our sorry arses for way too long and to expect him to carry the rest of the mids, who are either members of the leadership group or in our highest 6-8 paid, who all played like shit is heading down the wrong path on the blame train.

Caleb had a shocker.

[Mantis]

Caleb had a shocker.

He was awful... is it just me or does he hang on to the ball way too long whenever in a stopped play situation? Never seems it move it on quickly.

[EasternWest]

He was awful... is it just me or does he hang on to the ball way too long whenever in a stopped play situation? Never seems it move it on quickly.

It's not just you. He needs to find the balance between thinking it through and getting on with it.

[Grantysghost]

He was awful... is it just me or does he hang on to the ball way too long whenever in a stopped play situation? Never seems it move it on quickly.

Yes he does. Needs to be more instinctive. Might have the coaches in his head.

[azabob]

Too often our vibe is a bunch of nice guys happy playing nice football gee isn't this fun high five until we get punched in the face and we reliably react like it's the last thing we were expecting.

It's part of what makes this group hard to love, frankly.

What really shits me is the high fiving the forward who just took a mark but hasn't kicked the goal yet. Far out man, only half the job is done...

[azabob]

He was awful... is it just me or does he hang on to the ball way too long whenever in a stopped play situation? Never seems it move it on quickly.

Its just not him, English hardly takes the first option, Bailey Williams never does and the times we don't rush a behind instead we give up a junk kick which is intercepted 30m out from goal.

We as a team have forgotten how to do the fundamentals; take the first option, stick a tackle, stand up in a tackle, kick the goal.

[Grantysghost]

Its just not him, English hardly takes the first option, Bailey Williams never does and the times we don't rush a behind instead we give up a junk kick which is intercepted 30m out from goal.

We as a team have forgotten how to do the fundamentals; take the first option, stick a tackle, stand up in a tackle, kick the goal.

Does that indicate not playing on instinct, maybe over coaching?

[azabob]

Does that indicate not playing on instinct, maybe over coaching?

I reckon so. How often do we look confused when trying to exit D50 or enter our forward 50.

If I can be honest, I listen to Beveridge do media interviews during the week and pre game and literally I cannot follow a word he says.

He sounds confused and has trouble articulating the point he is trying to convey. Unless it is done deliberately.

[bulldogtragic]

Does that indicate not playing on instinct, maybe over coaching?

I don’t think they’re listening to the coach anymore. Surely what he said at half time after telling them this was their season was try to not touch the footy at all in this quarter.

Agree with Vred. Something stinks.

[bulldogtragic]

I reckon so. How often do we look confused when trying to exit D50 or enter our forward 50.

If I can be honest, I listen to Beveridge do media interviews during the week and pre game and literally I cannot follow a word he says.

He sounds confused and has trouble articulating the point he is trying to convey. Unless it is done deliberately.

Easy to be over coached when you spend all summer on a gun new game plan and then drop it after two horrible losses. Then go with another new game plan. Then drop half a dozen winnable matches after leading. I heard a lot of credit for Bevo dropping his shit new game plan. What about the wasted summer?

[GVGjr]

Just wonder what impact if any Rohan been given the flick have on the group.

It won't be a big challenge yet and the defenders performed well yesterday. Come the end of the year though it might be a challenge for some on the group. He's been a terrific coach for many of the players and like most departures of long term and trusted people it will be felt.

[GVGjr]

Caleb had a shocker.

For a number of weeks he was a very reliable performer but that consistency is dropping off now and he's had some very unproductive efforts in recent weeks.

[angelopetraglia]

Just wonder what impact if any Rohan been given the flick have on the group.

You can throw a lot of things up as a possible reason. However I say zero. You know why?

What we served up on the weekend is exactly what we have served up in the prior four losses. Same pattern. Same result. So Rohan Smith's departure was not the reason if you look at the body of work over the last 11 weeks. What we saw on the weekend was inline with the pattern not an anomaly which can be explained by a one off scenario. It is systematic.

[Sedat]

You can throw a lot of things up as a possible reason. However I say zero. You know why?

What we served up on the weekend is exactly what we have served up in the prior four losses. Same pattern. Same result. So Rohan Smith's departure was not the reason if you look at the body of work over the last 11 weeks. What we saw on the weekend was inline with the pattern not an anomaly which can be explained by a one off scenario. It is systematic.
Pattern has been clearly evident since the 2021 GF - it is a very big sample size and worthy of proper analysis if we are serious about improving as a club and contending for the medium/long term as we think we should.

There are already 7 clubs ahead of us. Hawthorn and Adelaide will come with a rush next year. Others below us might also improve at a greater rate than us if we don't make the necessary adjustments and properly review all elements of our organisation.

[jeemak]

Pattern has been clearly evident since the 2021 GF - it is a very big sample size and worthy of proper analysis if we are serious about improving as a club and contending for the medium/long term as we think we should.

There are already 7 clubs ahead of us. Hawthorn and Adelaide will come with a rush next year. Others below us might also improve at a greater rate than us if we don't make the necessary adjustments and properly review all elements of our organisation.

It's an issue that was in our DNA prior to the 21 GF. That was just the best example of it.

[Boots]

Some coverage:

Buckley and Cornes on SEN (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/08/13/unreliable-dogs-probed-after-sam-mitchell-plays-luke-beveridge-like-a-game/)

King and Montagna on First Crack (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/afl-news-2023-western-bulldogs-wasting-another-season-and-should-do-club-review-says-david-king-luke-beveridge-press-conference/news-story/c04d78abe76dd066990bbd2aed4eaf14)

[Grantysghost]

Aflca votes:

Hawthorn v Western Bulldogs
10 Jai Newcombe (HAW)
8 Karl Amon (HAW)
3 Ed Richards (WB)
3 Blake Hardwick (HAW)
2 James Worpel (HAW)
2 Dylan Moore (HAW)
1 Marcus Bontempelli (WB)
1 Will Day (HAW)

LEADERBOARD
99 Nick Daicos COLL
92 Zak Butters PORT
90 Christian Petracca MELB
87 Marcus Bontempelli WB
80 Connor Rozee PORT
74 Toby Greene GWS
73 Zach Merrett ESS
73 Lachie Neale BL
71 Noah Anderson GCFC
71 Jordan Dawson ADEL
69 Errol Gulden SYD
69 Caleb Serong FRE
67 Jack Sinclair STK
63 Jai Newcombe HAW
63 Tim Taranto RICH
60 Patrick Cripps CARL
58 Luke Jackson FRE
58 Jack Viney MELB
56 Tom Liberatore WB
55 Dan Houston PORT

[Grantysghost]

I always love it when we let a guy ran rampant and then give him 5 votes.

[angelopetraglia]

I always love it when we let a guy ran rampant and then give him 5 votes.

He is now on 63 votes for the year. So he has been doing it consistently. Not bad for a rookie.

[Grantysghost]

He is now on 63 votes for the year. So he has been doing it consistently. Not bad for a rookie.

Wasn't he like a mid season draft pick? Amazing recruitment.
Mid season rookie. Wow.
Maybe one of the covid gems that were overlooked.

[angelopetraglia]

Newcombe was a rookie.

Amon was a free agent who was orignally taken at pick #68.

Worpel was taken at pick #45.

Moore was taken at pick #67.

Day was taken at pick #13


This is the midfield that completely and utterly destroyed us.

[Grantysghost]

Newcombe was a rookie.

Amon was a free agent who was orignally taken at pick #68.

Worpel was taken at pick #45.

Moore was taken at pick #67.

Day was taken at pick #13


This is the midfield that completely and utterly destroyed us.

Plus McGuinness was stopping Libba.

[DOG GOD]

Newcombe was a rookie.

Amon was a free agent who was orignally taken at pick #68.

Worpel was taken at pick #45.

Moore was taken at pick #67.

Day was taken at pick #13


This is the midfield that completely and utterly destroyed us.

A workman-like midfield against the prima Donna dogs midfield

[mjp]

Newcombe was a rookie.


Newcombe was a MID SEASON draft pick in 2021. As I recall, he had put a 'price on his head' (as is your right in the MSD) to ensure the team with pick 1 (I think North but I'm too lazy to check) to overlook him. He also nominated the 18-month term which turns most clubs off...there is a minimum 6-month commitment to those players...

Hard to believe.

[angelopetraglia]

Newcombe was a MID SEASON draft pick in 2021. As I recall, he had put a 'price on his head' (as is your right in the MSD) to ensure the team with pick 1 (I think North but I'm too lazy to check) to overlook him. He also nominated the 18-month term which turns most clubs off...there is a minimum 6-month commitment to those players...

Hard to believe.

OK. Thanks for the clarification. The point being that he was overlooked at the draft.

[mjp]

A workman-like midfield against the prima Donna dogs midfield

We have spoken about this repeatedly. BUT.

What I mean is, we often lament the absence of rookie draft selections etc in our side today vs the old days - whether we were successful (and 2015-16 were banner years for rookie + castoff production with Morris, Boyd, Picken, JJ, Briggs et al running around) but as a club and supporter base we embraced them and almost nurtured them.

I was there when Morris played his first game and ran out to stand next to Andrew Macleod. We didn't run him down - we prayed for his success and for the goodness of his soul!

Nowadays? One mistake and done. We have a short leash these days. If your not Bont, then you're no good. I know it's not quite like that but that is how it feels...

[EasternWest]

We have spoken about this repeatedly. BUT.

What I mean is, we often lament the absence of rookie draft selections etc in our side today vs the old days - whether we were successful (and 2015-16 were banner years for rookie + castoff production with Morris, Boyd, Picken, JJ, Briggs et al running around) but as a club and supporter base we embraced them and almost nurtured them.

I was there when Morris played his first game and ran out to stand next to Andrew Macleod. We didn't run him down - we prayed for his success and for the goodness of his soul!

Nowadays? One mistake and done. We have a short leash these days. If your not Bont, then you're no good. I know it's not quite like that but that is how it feels...

Briggs? Nets.

[DOG GOD]

We have spoken about this repeatedly. BUT.

What I mean is, we often lament the absence of rookie draft selections etc in our side today vs the old days - whether we were successful (and 2015-16 were banner years for rookie + castoff production with Morris, Boyd, Picken, JJ, Briggs et al running around) but as a club and supporter base we embraced them and almost nurtured them.

I was there when Morris played his first game and ran out to stand next to Andrew Macleod. We didn't run him down - we prayed for his success and for the goodness of his soul!

Nowadays? One mistake and done. We have a short leash these days. If your not Bont, then you're no good. I know it's not quite like that but that is how it feels...

I see “workman-like” as guys who play for the team. They play their role, and if that means sacrificing their own game, they will do it.
We don’t have that as a team. Libba is workmanlike, don’t get me wrong. Macrae can have that workmanlike mantra too, but Treloar and smith are certainly not workman like. One thing we don’t have is a midfield with a defensive bone in their body. That cost us the GF.

Who would I rather in the dogs colours…smith and Treloar or Newcombe and warpal ? The latter by far.