Midfield Ray

[Dominator]

I think Ray will move into the midfield this year and add the the already exciting mix that is already there.

[The Coon Dog]

I reckon you'll find he'll spend more time on the wing than anywhere.

[LostDoggy]

He would fit in nicely there it will be very competitive with all of them vying to get in there. Griffen has also said that is where he eventually want to be. It will create healthy competition amongst the players wanting to get into the midfield positions.

[bulldogtragic]

I reckon you'll find he'll spend more time on the wing than anywhere.
Second the notion.

[GVGjr]

I think Ray will move into the midfield this year and add the the already exciting mix that is already there.


Ray can play just about anywhere from half back, wing, centre square or on a half forward flank. I'd suggest that he is most at home on a wing. Two things that concern me about his game is his kicking into the forward line and his indecisions. If he improves in those areas then he will be a match winner for us.

[Sockeye Salmon]

But the wing already is the midfield :confused:

[GVGjr]

But the wing already is the midfield :confused:

Agreed but in this context I think they regard the centre square as the true midfield.

[alwaysadog]

I think Ray will move into the midfield this year and add the the already exciting mix that is already there.

I have a slight concern, and this is not a shot at you Dominator; 1010 because you are echoing a sentiment being widely expressed.

Without keeping an up to date count I think at least 13 players have been suggested as being in the midfield for 2007 (can anyone advance me on 13?). It's either going to be very crowded in there or they are going to rotate every 60 seconds or so.

I sometimes wonder if there is any value in having good players who can play other positions. I have a feeling that if we had 7 or 8 ruckmen on the list and the rest all midfielders we would have the perfect side.

OK... DR would still want us to draft a few talls, but they would probably not get past the bench.

[Go_Dogs]

Ray won about the 2nd least % of contested possessions last year. Ie. For every possession he had, only about 10% were won in traffic. Only the Powers Lonie was worse. I think Ray is definently more suited to a wing - I watched at numerous times last year while he stood by and didn't throw himself into a contest, where as players like Cross, Boyd etc were regularly throwing themselves into contests and tackles to win games. I don't know if its a confidence thing due to his size - but if he wants to play in the centre square and be a good inside midfielder, he has do to better, much better.

Ray's kicking also let's him down a lot - so if he wants to be a good wingman, he has to work on it. I want our wingmen kicking long goals, and penetrating as well as running the lines well. Too often Ray sprays the ball after a good run, even when he has time to compose. At the same time I have seen him spot up some pretty ridiculous kicks from difficult positions under pressure. He has it, he just needs to get it right much more often.
I think he will be a good player, but he has a lot of work infront of him to make sure he gets to that level and becomes a genuinely good player.

[Dry Rot]

Without keeping an up to date count I think at least 13 players have been suggested as being in the midfield for 2007 (can anyone advance me on 13?). It's either going to be very crowded in there or they are going to rotate every 60 seconds or so.



Anyone know our usual rotations and midfield combinations? Or is it more random than that?

[GVGjr]

Anyone know our usual rotations and midfield combinations? Or is it more random than that?

I think it is a random horses for courses approach to rotations. Eade did seem to stick with West coming off at the 20 to 25 min mark on each of the first three quarters last year though.

[alwaysadog]

DR that is a top question. There has to be a lot of thinking that goes into this, but I wonder if the club want it to be public knowledge. It's something I plan to try and take special note of this year.

I assume by the way that we are talking about centre bounces, but even then it gets complicated because someone might be in the centre for the bounce then not follow the ball but move to a forward or a back flank. I think they are trying to balance the need to win clearances with overall game matchups.

The players clearly know the rotation as you don't see too many frantic signals. On the other hand the odd combinations that appear in the center at times baffles me ie they might all be relatively light bodied or none part of the usual bounce routine.

[Dry Rot]

On the other hand the odd combinations that appear in the center at times baffles me ie they might all be relatively light bodied or none part of the usual bounce routine.

This bit really interests me NB bench players eg is there a particular set-up when say Boyd or Ray go on?

When McMahon is used in there is say Eagle usually on the bench etc?

Does the set-up depend upon whether Minson or street are rucking etc

[GVGjr]

This bit really interests me NB bench players eg is there a particular set-up when say Boyd or Ray go on?

When McMahon is used in there is say Eagle usually on the bench etc?

Does the set-up depend upon whether Minson or street are rucking etc

I'm not sure the set-up would be much different for Street or Minson but it might be something worth checking once the season starts.

[alwaysadog]

This bit really interests me NB bench players eg is there a particular set-up when say Boyd or Ray go on?

When McMahon is used in there is say Eagle usually on the bench etc?

Does the set-up depend upon whether Minson or street are rucking etc

Curioser and curiouser.

If we can get on top of this sort of detail then we will go a long way to better understanding what is being attempted and if it is working. Rather like last draft period when we knew the shape of the plan and just waited on the detail.

But we need to be careful; knowlege rather than prejudice might become the base of argument.

[dog town]

Ray won about the 2nd least % of contested possessions last year. Ie. For every possession he had, only about 10% were won in traffic. Only the Powers Lonie was worse. I think Ray is definently more suited to a wing - I watched at numerous times last year while he stood by and didn't throw himself into a contest, where as players like Cross, Boyd etc were regularly throwing themselves into contests and tackles to win games. I don't know if its a confidence thing due to his size - but if he wants to play in the centre square and be a good inside midfielder, he has do to better, much better.

Ray's kicking also let's him down a lot - so if he wants to be a good wingman, he has to work on it. I want our wingmen kicking long goals, and penetrating as well as running the lines well. Too often Ray sprays the ball after a good run, even when he has time to compose. At the same time I have seen him spot up some pretty ridiculous kicks from difficult positions under pressure. He has it, he just needs to get it right much more often.
I think he will be a good player, but he has a lot of work infront of him to make sure he gets to that level and becomes a genuinely good player. Pretty much sums up the challenges Ray faces over the next few years as a player. At the moment he is an outside player who cant kick. He has creativity and ball carrying ability on his side but he wont become a top line midfielder unless he can fix atleast one of these things. Some people might be surprised but at u/18 level Ray did win plenty of disputed ball particulalrly on the edges of packs.Ray was actually well known for his courage

[GVGjr]

Pretty much sums up the challenges Ray faces over the next few years as a player. At the moment he is an outside player who cant kick. He has creativity and ball carrying ability on his side but he wont become a top line midfielder unless he can fix atleast one of these things. Some people might be surprised but at u/18 level Ray did win plenty of disputed ball particulalrly on the edges of packs.Ray was actually well known for his courage

The thing about Ray is that sometimes he weights his kicks perfectly even when under pressure and yet can mess up a kick when he is in the open. Not sure if it is a decision making or out and out skill error but either way he needs to start making some improvements.
Do we have or even have access to a kicking skills coach to try and assist him?

If he could improve his kicking by 20%, and yes there probably is that much improvement in his kicking, he would seriously be a dangerous player.

[alwaysadog]

If he could improve his kicking by 20%, and yes there probably is that much improvement in his kicking, he would seriously be a dangerous player.

We had a very quiet guy who would instruct him perfectly. Was so good at communing with the ball that some thought it even spoke back to him. I refer to the one and the only Douglas Hawkins. What he doesn't know about kicking isn't worth knowing.

[whythelongface]

Pretty much sums up the challenges Ray faces over the next few years as a player. At the moment he is an outside player who cant kick. He has creativity and ball carrying ability on his side but he wont become a top line midfielder unless he can fix atleast one of these things. Some people might be surprised but at u/18 level Ray did win plenty of disputed ball particulalrly on the edges of packs.Ray was actually well known for his courage

Interesting point that you make re: Rays courage when he was playing with guys his own age. As we know Ray is slightly built and until he bulks up a bit then the wing will be his most likely position. However, I believe a transition into the midfield is likely over the next few years and he will be a similar type of player to a Simon Black. This year though will see him definitely start on the wing but maybe toward the latter part of the year maybe given some opportunities in our midfield.

[Mofra]

Ray won about the 2nd least % of contested possessions last year. Ie. For every possession he had, only about 10% were won in traffic. Only the Powers Lonie was worse. I think Ray is definently more suited to a wing - I watched at numerous times last year while he stood by and didn't throw himself into a contest, where as players like Cross, Boyd etc were regularly throwing themselves into contests and tackles to win games. I don't know if its a confidence thing due to his size - but if he wants to play in the centre square and be a good inside midfielder, he has do to better, much better.
I like that - we need someone to feed the ball out to, and I would prefer that person to be one of our better ball carriers, such as a Ray, Eagle or Gilbee.

[southerncross]

Interesting point that you make re: Rays courage when he was playing with guys his own age. As we know Ray is slightly built and until he bulks up a bit then the wing will be his most likely position. However, I believe a transition into the midfield is likely over the next few years and he will be a similar type of player to a Simon Black. This year though will see him definitely start on the wing but maybe toward the latter part of the year maybe given some opportunities in our midfield.

The Simon Black comparisons have been mentioned before but while I am warming to it I am still not 100% convinced.
I agree that the wing is his best position but he is capable of playing in the centre square for the odd burst.
He could probably handle a run with role but I'd question his concentration. At the moment he is a great free runner but has he got the ability to play 4 good quarters and/or shut down an opponent?

[Go_Dogs]

I like that - we need someone to feed the ball out to, and I would prefer that person to be one of our better ball carriers, such as a Ray, Eagle or Gilbee.

More and more we are seeing players doing a role like that, but I think that players should be able to win their own ball. Ray hasn't really shown the ability to go forward or back yet, and if his only trick is going to be on the wing he has a lot of work in front of him to really dominate that position. He needs to be able to play in the square and win contested ball as well as play off the wing and be a good outside midfielder. There are a lot of people that would be ahead of him for the plain old wing role - Eagleton, Gilbee, McMahon, Giansiracusa - but all these other players are adaptable and can play in other areas too. With the addition of Akermanis, Higgins coming in and Addison hopefully continuing to rise through the ranks, Ray is going to have to start either - improving his delivery and his ability to kick long goals, or be able to play a more inside role and get into the centre square rotation. He's a good player no doubt and could become very effective in the role you suggest above, hopefully this can be an awesome year for Ray.



On a side note, Sam Power was next to Ray as far as % of contested ball won to percentage of disposals.

[stefoid]

His kicking is bound to improve - the old 'only played footy for 3 years' prior to being drafted puts him behind in the footy-skils/education department.

what ray does have going for him is a fairly rare combination of engine and top speed. add to that some pretty good vision and evasiveness. Sure at AFL level, someone with his light frame is going to be a reciever, but he has the ability to get a ton of posessions and be creative under pressure- that goes a long way.

[alwaysadog]

His kicking is bound to improve - the old 'only played footy for 3 years' prior to being drafted puts him behind in the footy-skils/education department.

what ray does have going for him is a fairly rare combination of engine and top speed. add to that some pretty good vision and evasiveness. Sure at AFL level, someone with his light frame is going to be a reciever, but he has the ability to get a ton of posessions and be creative under pressure- that goes a long way.

Well said!

[LostDoggy]

Sure at AFL level, someone with his light frame is going to be a reciever, but he has the ability to get a ton of posessions and be creative under pressure- that goes a long way.

Yeah he is a lot like that, he kind of reminds me of Leon Cameron when he first started playing.