Final List spot for 2023 - what position?

[bornadog]

We have one spot left on our list. Given the balance of the list what role should we be targeting?

I would like another developing ruckman, but there are some other holes.

[Mofra]

At this stage I'd leave it open and look to target a position of need (likely ruck) at the mid season draft.
If Baker doesn't work out, I could see us considering an outside runner by then.

[GVGjr]

At this stage I'd leave it open and look to target a position of need (likely ruck) at the mid season draft.
If Baker doesn't work out, I could see us considering an outside runner by then.

While I think we should be targeting a ruck man or a winger option we are very likely that our intention is to wait until the mid season otherwise we would already have a couple of players training with us now like some other clubs are doing.

[hujsh]

I thought we already were supposed to have picked up one of the ex-Collingwood guys? Was that "fake news"?

[Axe Man]

I thought we already were supposed to have picked up one of the ex-Collingwood guys? Was that "fake news"?

All linked to the VFL team, nothing official has suggested they were candidates for the final list spot. We don't have anyone officially training with the AFL team as far as we know.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

MSD looks imminent.

You would think the ruck, small lockdown defender or winger would be the likely/possible positions of need. Whether we intend to draft that way is another thing.

Is it possible we simply go into, and through the season, with 1 less spot? Has any club done that previously? Is there any benefit to it?

[hujsh]

All linked to the VFL team, nothing official has suggested they were candidates for the final list spot. We don't have anyone officially training with the AFL team as far as we know.

I checked my history and it was Tyler Brown based on Smith's IG story. Not the most reliable way of figuring that out in hindsight.

[weltschmerz]

I’d wager we take it to the MSD to fill whatever position has come up as being of biggest need.

[mjp]

I’d wager we take it to the MSD to fill whatever position has come up as being of biggest need.

We NEED an outside mid.

I don't object to the 'wait for the MSD' calls, but this is what we NEED.

We also NEED a developing ruckman but at least with English, Sweet and Lobb we have 'competence' on our list (if not brilliance). To me we can wait until the 2023 draft to fill this.

[Bullies]

We NEED an outside mid.

I don't object to the 'wait for the MSD' calls, but this is what we NEED.

We also NEED a developing ruckman but at least with English, Sweet and Lobb we have 'competence' on our list (if not brilliance). To me we can wait until the 2023 draft to fill this. I think Sweet may surprise a few this year. He was targeted last year by a number of clubs who could see his potential. It takes 4 - 5 years to learn the trade and he was very raw when he came over from SA. He is actually one of the best tap ruckman going around.

[ratsmac]

I think Sweet may surprise a few this year. He was targeted last year by a number of clubs who could see his potential. It takes 4 - 5 years to learn the trade and he was very raw when he came over from SA. He is actually one of the best tap ruckman going around.

Yeah tapping it isn't his issue, its catching the bloody thing!

[1eyedog]

I think Sweet may surprise a few this year. He was targeted last year by a number of clubs who could see his potential. It takes 4 - 5 years to learn the trade and he was very raw when he came over from SA. He is actually one of the best tap ruckman going around.

I just don't think he can get around the ground fast enough. Hope I'm wrong.

Agree with others we need an outside mid and a ruck to work on.

[AshMac]

Yeah tapping it isn't his issue, it’s catching the bloody thing!

Just needs to work on catching it, kicking it and being where the ball is

[Bullies]

Yeah tapping it isn't his issue, its catching the bloody thing! But tap outs to advantage can be under rated. if he is giving clean ball to our mids it helps with clearences and setting us up. He is also a strong unit in the contest. I think he'll be alright.

[Sedat]

But tap outs to advantage can be under rated. if he is giving clean ball to our mids it helps with clearences and setting us up. He is also a strong unit in the contest. I think he'll be alright.
Does he have the tank to run games out? He will struggle to make it long-term at senior AFL level if he can't. I like his stoppage work but he needs to cover the ground more. The first H&A game against Melbourne in 2021 really highlighted how far off the pace he was against the best ruckmen.

As an emergency break glass option if English and/or Lobb go down with long-term injuries, he's a decent back-up. I hope he makes it because I'm a fan of his assets. But he's a 50/50 proposition at best right now.

[Go_Dogs]

Sweet is really interesting because the times I’ve seen him he moves well, he looks neat, slim and mobile, however his endurance and perhaps his smarts of knowing when / where to run is what needs improvement. He’ll get marginally fitter I’m sure, but his improvement will come from improved smarts to allow him to be more effective within his physical parameters.



Back on topic for this thread, a lock down small defender or live wire small forward get my nod.

[Grantysghost]

Tyler Brown has signed with the Crows via the Pre-Season Supplemental Selection Period (SSP).

Seedsman moving to the inactive list for 2023 opened up the spot.

[Axe Man]

Tyler Brown has signed with the Crows via the Pre-Season Supplemental Selection Period (SSP).

Seedsman moving to the inactive list for 2023 opened up the spot.

Didn't McAsey retiring open up the spot? Seedsman opens up another spot.

[Grantysghost]

Didn't McAsey retiring open up the spot? Seedsman opens up another spot.

Yep that sounds right Axe.

[Mofra]

Back on topic for this thread, a lock down small defender or live wire small forward get my nod.
Aren't they Clarke & Gallagher we just drafted?

If we get to the middle of the year and there are no obvious holes, I'd look at a project ruck type

[Grantysghost]

Final list spot for me needs to be a speedy lockdown defender as others have mentioned.

Duryea is our only option really and I have my doubts.

[GVGjr]

Tyler Brown has signed with the Crows via the Pre-Season Supplemental Selection Period (SSP).

Seedsman moving to the inactive list for 2023 opened up the spot.

After just one session as well. Credit to him for getting back onto a list.

[Go_Dogs]

Aren't they Clarke & Gallagher we just drafted?

If we get to the middle of the year and there are no obvious holes, I'd look at a project ruck type

You’re right, but I think our need is more immediate than the players we drafted, who will likely have higher ceilings than any player we target from this point, but perhaps not the immediate impact. I’m not as worried about a project ruck as some, as we have Darcy and Sweet who are still kinda both that player.

[Axe Man]

One reason teams leave open a spot for the mid season draft is to get in early on an mature age talent that has shown improvement over the year. For instance a 19 year old that missed out on the 2022 draft that plays overage in the NAB cup and improves to the point he's likely to be taken somewhere in the national draft (eg Harvey Gallagher). Clubs can swoop in and grab the player early.

[MrMahatma]

There's clearly a plan. I mean, Wallis was under the impression he was being kept on, and then we don't keep him on but leave a spot open. Surely there's a CLEAR plan.

[GVGjr]

I was really checking in the Footscray boys to see if we might promote someone from there but there wasn't a lot that caught the eye. Poulter and Sullivan probably looked the best. Garner dumps Khamis in a contest but helped him up. He's a solid boy.

[Grantysghost]

We all know it's going to be Sullivan come on guys!

[bornadog]

We all know it's going to be Sullivan come on guys!

Please no

[bornadog]

Deadline coming up to finalise list spots.

Any prospects make the Portsea camp? Maybe next week's training will give us a clue.

[GVGjr]

Deadline coming up to finalise list spots.

Any prospects make the Portsea camp? Maybe next week's training will give us a clue.

No extra players I could see at the two sessions but if I remember correctly we added Baker just after his first training session. That said apparently Power had been interested in him for a while.
If there is no one training with us next week then we are probably more likely to wait until the mid season draft.

It would be interesting to know how many players across the various state and metro/country leagues we monitor above the junior footballers for the National Draft.

[GVGjr]

I see Collingwood have added Oscar Steene to their list today so I guess with the deal line looming if we don't have someone training with us on Wednesday it will pretty much rule out that option for us unless it's one for the Footscray boys we've been keeping an eye on.
Look like the mid season draft is our preference.

[The Doctor]

I see Collingwood have added Oscar Steene to their list today so I guess with the deal line looming if we don't have someone training with us on Wednesday it will pretty much rule out that option for us unless it's one for the Footscray boys we've been keeping an eye on.
Look like the mid season draft is our preference.

would Poulter be a chance?

[Matjoh]

Why all the ruck talk? Noone rate Sweet? Got potential and now with Lade and Martin coaching, he should/could develop. Athletic, fair kick and mark, just needs a good go? I like him. I think we need a lock down back as Duryea/Crozier are near the end, or a 190+ allrounder Dunkley/Ratugolea/Himmelberg type.

[GVGjr]

would Poulter be a chance?
I don't think he played in the last practice game but he is an okay player but I doubt he is a genuine option to play much in the firsts.

What are your thoughts of keeping the list spot open?
I can see some pluses in it but I do think getting a player in early is the preference.

[GVGjr]

Why all the ruck talk? Noone rate Sweet? Got potential and now with Lade and Martin coaching, he should/could develop. Athletic, fair kick and mark, just needs a good go? I like him. I think we need a lock down back as Duryea/Crozier are near the end, or a 190+ allrounder Dunkley/Ratugolea/Himmelberg type.

I think Sweet is well worth being on the list but two ruck man is bare bones from my perspective.
I not sure that Martin is a huge benefit for him just yet as he has been practicing against him the two years before that.
Lade being on board might help a bit. The good part is Sweet is doing extra work to try and improve.

[Mofra]

At this stage we'd be better off keeping it open and assessing any needs mid-year.
I also think we're light on for rucks but anyone we take now would hardly be ready to contribute to our (shallow) depth anyway.

[jazzadogs]

I think Sweet is well worth being on the list but two ruck man is bare bones from my perspective.
I not sure that Martin is a huge benefit for him just yet as he has been practicing against him the two years before that.
Lade being on board might help a bit. The good part is Sweet is doing extra work to try and improve.

I've seen the 'only two rucks' comments a bit, but I think the club would see Lobb, Darcy and to a lesser extent Bruce as back up option, in addition to English and Sweet.

[GVGjr]

I've seen the 'only two rucks' comments a bit, but I think the club would see Lobb, Darcy and to a lesser extent Bruce as back up option, in addition to English and Sweet.

It's definitely the way the clubs see it but they also said that Lobb was coming in to play alongside of Naughton. To me he best at being a match day back up ruck not a full time one.

[jazzadogs]

It's definitely the way the clubs see it but they also said that Lobb was coming in to play alongside of Naughton. To me he best at being a match day back up ruck not a full time one.

So English gets injured, Sweet comes in with Lobb as 2nd.
If Sweet is injured as well, then they consider whether they want Bruce, Darcy or Lobb as primary ruck with the other one playing forward.
If Lobb gets injured, then consider whether English plays more forward with Sweet as primary, or we bring in Bruce/Darcy to play 2nd ruck.
If English, Lobb and Sweet are all injured we might be in trouble...but we still would be if we had an extra young developing ruck.

I don't see an issue with the number of rucks. I don't mind the idea of a rookie ruck to develop, but I think Darcy is possibly that guy? And we shouldn't be filling list spots with guys who are no good just because of their size.

[Smads57]

I don't see us taking a player in the Pre Season Draft as there hasn't been one consistent 'new face' at enough training sessions. Poulter would have attended most sessions, but I have always felt it was around him being another VFL top up player for match sim.

With respect to the OP, as we are holding a position open (in my opinion), for the Mid season draft, it will be about covering any injury to a key player in a key position in the first half of the season. It will be a wait and see exercise.

[bulldogtragic]

So more salary savings for Sam Power to bank.

[The Doctor]

I don't think he played in the last practice game but he is an okay player but I doubt he is a genuine option to play much in the firsts.

What are your thoughts of keeping the list spot open?
I can see some pluses in it but I do think getting a player in early is the preference.

If no one is making a stand out case this preseason then keep it for the MSD in case we need to bolster a position.

[GVGjr]

If no one is making a stand out case this preseason then keep it for the MSD in case we need to bolster a position.

We don't have anyone training with us at the moment so I suppose that is a sign that we are happy to wait until the MSD and watch the state leagues for any player on our radar. That should provide us with some flexibility in bringing in a player that we need but the only problem with that is you get them into the system so late.

[Axe Man]

We don't have anyone training with us at the moment so I suppose that is a sign that we are happy to wait until the MSD and watch the state leagues for any player on our radar. That should provide us with some flexibility in bringing in a player that we need but the only problem with that is you get them into the system so late.

Depends how you look at it. Often the players taken mid season are guys that would have gone somewhere in the national draft in November. This way you are getting them in several months early for a bit of try before you buy. It's unlikely a player taken mid season will make a meaningful contribution in that season.

[GVGjr]

Depends how you look at it. Often the players taken mid season are guys that would have gone somewhere in the national draft in November. This way you are getting them in several months early for a bit of try before you buy. It's unlikely a player taken mid season will make a meaningful contribution in that season.

In that instance it's more or less grabbing a Gallagher in the MSD rather than at the ND. You might get something out of it late in the year but more you have a jump start on the ND. The other option is to grab a player that we might need to cover an injury or two which is what the MSD was designed for but it does provide a fair bit of flexibility for teams to try and fix a problem this year or get a player to the club a bit earlier.

[Mofra]

So English gets injured, Sweet comes in with Lobb as 2nd.
If Sweet is injured as well, then they consider whether they want Bruce, Darcy or Lobb as primary ruck with the other one playing forward.
If Lobb gets injured, then consider whether English plays more forward with Sweet as primary, or we bring in Bruce/Darcy to play 2nd ruck.
If English, Lobb and Sweet are all injured we might be in trouble...but we still would be if we had an extra young developing ruck.

I don't see an issue with the number of rucks. I don't mind the idea of a rookie ruck to develop, but I think Darcy is possibly that guy? And we shouldn't be filling list spots with guys who are no good just because of their size.
In 2021 Gold Coast had a developing CHB in the ruck due to 4 injuries.
We have two genuine first rucks ready for AFL duties - English & Sweet. Lobb's more forward, Darcy developing, and Josh Bruce is barely passable as a second ruck.

I really think we're thin in the ruck department and English always misses games.

[Axe Man]

In that instance it's more or less grabbing a Gallagher in the MSD rather than at the ND. You might get something out of it late in the year but more you have a jump start on the ND. The other option is to grab a player that we might need to cover an injury or two which is what the MSD was designed for but it does provide a fair bit of flexibility for teams to try and fix a problem this year or get a player to the club a bit earlier.

Taking players before they hit the ND was not the intention of the MSD but it is the primary use. Examples of players coming in and making an instant impact are few and far between, they are just coming from too far back.

[bornadog]

Taking players before they hit the ND was not the intention of the MSD but it is the primary use. Examples of players coming in and making an instant impact are few and far between, they are just coming from too far back.

I agree with this and really question the MSD. We took Gardner and he took awhile to really find his spot.

[GVGjr]

Taking players before they hit the ND was not the intention of the MSD but it is the primary use. Examples of players coming in and making an instant impact are few and far between, they are just coming from too far back.

Agreed, this is why I wonder if we would be better served by bringing in a player now and giving them an extended run with us.
If it was a younger ruckman for example, well a season of competing at the state level against mature opponents and at training with English, Sweet, Darcy and working with Martin is a good grounding for a player. If we wait until the MSD we have lost a few months of development. If we wait until the ND then we are basically a year behind

All that changes if we draft a more mature type which might be our preference.

If it's a mid the transition is a lot better

Holding back does provide us with some flexibility so not a bad ploy.

[GVGjr]

I agree with this and really question the MSD. We took Gardner and he took awhile to really find his spot.

From memory didn't he play a week or two after we drafted him and then got injured while in the ruck early in his 2nd game with us?
Once we settled him down as a defender it did take him to improve but he was very good last season and should go from strength to strength this year.
His first full year was 2020 and that was of course interrupted with all the Covid restrictions.

[mjp]

I agree with this and really question the MSD. We took Gardner and he took awhile to really find his spot.

Yeah - BUT if you keep a list spot free then you can use it:

1/. For positional need if you are pushing for finals.
2/. To pick the eyes out of the 19 year olds playing in talent competitions around Australia before the upcoming draft.

I don't actually understand why every club doesn't keep a spot free for it - if you need a ruck in the middle of the year, you need one...if you end up not using the list spot, well, so be it.

[Rocco Jones]

Yeah - BUT if you keep a list spot free then you can use it:

1/. For positional need if you are pushing for finals.
2/. To pick the eyes out of the 19 year olds playing in talent competitions around Australia before the upcoming draft.

I don't actually understand why every club doesn't keep a spot free for it - if you need a ruck in the middle of the year, you need one...if you end up not using the list spot, well, so be it.

Yep, all of that.

I don't like being able to basically draft a kid who is injured so you can warehouse them. The point of the mid-season draft, or what i see as what should be it's point, is to top on for the current season. Replace an injured player or what not.

I get having a player go back into the system would suck for them but I would like to see something that makes it harder to just pick a 19 year old as an early free-ish ND pick.

[mjp]

...as an early free-ish ND pick.

Smart list management mate.

Keep the list spot spare - if it's a 19yo who was overlooked in the previous ND, well, if you have a spot you can take them.

It isn't FREE. You have to keep a list spot open for half the season to be able to do it...

[Rocco Jones]

Smart list management mate.

Keep the list spot spare - if it's a 19yo who was overlooked in the previous ND, well, if you have a spot you can take them.

It isn't FREE. You have to keep a list spot open for half the season to be able to do it...

Oh I agree it's smart. I don't think the AFL should allow it in the draft. I think it should be exclusively there for guys you want on a half season contract. A bit US sports like with the short term deals.

If I'm a side that isn't realistically competing for a flag, I definitely keep a spot open to have an extra look at a kid.

[mjp]

Oh I agree it's smart. I don't think the AFL should allow it in the draft. I think it should be exclusively there for guys you want on a half season contract. A bit US sports like with the short term deals.

If I'm a side that isn't realistically competing for a flag, I definitely keep a spot open to have an extra look at a kid.

But if I'm a player and i know it's 3-months max then I'm less likely to nominate...it's a Catch-22 mate (my fave book ever for anyone watching at home).

[Rocco Jones]

But if I'm a player and i know it's 3-months max then I'm less likely to nominate...it's a Catch-22 mate (my fave book ever for anyone watching at home).

Yeah I agree. I mean something like bidding system within ND, like you get a discount but I get it's not like US with income, 3 months to move interstate would definitely mean less nominate.

[bulldogtragic]

You can nominate 18 month contracts on your own head fwiw.

[Axe Man]

You can nominate 18 month contracts on your own head fwiw.

Jai Newcombe nominated a 30 month contract on better than base financial terms when he was drafted in the MSD. There was talk that the ability to nominate terms would be restricted to players that had already been on an AFL list but not sure if they ever made that rule change?

[bulldogtragic]

Jai Newcombe nominated a 30 month contract on better than base financial terms when he was drafted in the MSD. There was talk that the ability to nominate terms would be restricted to players that had already been on an AFL list but not sure if they ever made that rule change?

Ta. Will have a look for it/see it it’s in. I don’t mind players putting whatever price they want on their head, within some reason/limits such as above. I’m sure the AFLPA doesn’t mind either. Especially if another 12 months is the price to get an interstate player.

[MrMahatma]

I'd be keeping a spot to cover for injuries to a specific role. There's already a third (?) of the list who are "developing" essentially... keep the spot for the NOW.

Not sure anyone has actually done that successfully but whatevs.

[jazzadogs]

In 2021 Gold Coast had a developing CHB in the ruck due to 4 injuries.
We have two genuine first rucks ready for AFL duties - English & Sweet. Lobb's more forward, Darcy developing, and Josh Bruce is barely passable as a second ruck.

I really think we're thin in the ruck department and English always misses games.

You're not wrong about GC, but they had four injuries in one position! No team can cover that.

I think most clubs would have two 'match-ready' AFL rucks', plus makeshift or developing options.

Adelaide - ROB and Strachan
Brisbane - McInerney and Fort
Carlton - Pittonet and TDK
Collingwood - Cameron and Cox
Essendon - Draper and Phillips
Freo - Darcy and Jackson
Cats - Stanley and Ceglar plus Blicavs
....
I'm sure I could go on. I just don't see the point in adding someone to the list who we don't think is any good, and wouldn't get a game ahead of Bruce/Darcy/a midfielder rucking.

[bornadog]

One spot remains open for mid season