Developing tall players

[GVGjr]

Recent history might not suggested we have been overly successful in developing key position players via the draft.

At the end of the 2019 season our lack of key position players meant we had to go out and bring in two experienced players from opposition teams in Alex Keath and Josh Bruce that were bookends for our forward and back lines.
Both were around 27/28 years of age at the time but it addressed the gaps that we had and both now enter the 2023 as reinvigorated players after injury prone 2022 seasons.

At the end of the 2022 season, and partly due to the injuries to Keath and Bruce, we once again went shopping for KPP and got Jones as a key back and Lobb to play alongside of Naughton up forward and to help out as the match day support ruckman. Both have fitted in well but Jones is nearly 32 and Lobb nearly 30. Lets hope the fountain of youth is kind to our 4 key positions recruits.

Along the way we have brought in Gardner from Geelong who is performing well and might be ready for a big season, we had the draft gods smile on us with Naughton and after a long wait we've seen a significant upside in English. We are still patiently awaiting for Sweet to make a step forward as a viable ruck option for us.

We are now the 5th most experienced side in the competition which would indicate that we should be poised for a real tilt at this seasons flag.

Over the last 3 years we have invested a lot in drafting our own key position players. Ugle-Hagan went #1, Darcy #2 and Busslinger #13 but I question what does the club need to do to make sure we can genuinely develop the taller players?
What might other clubs do to fast track or accelerate the development of KPP?

I'm interested an idea if we need to bring in development coaches who might have a particular focus or skill set in developing key position players?

[Mofra]

Let's not forget Naughton at pick 9 who goes ok, and I still think given Gardner's fanatical approach to training he gets to 100 games for us.

JUH is a slow-burn and I'm not sure he ever becomes a no 1 forward. Darcy could well and up a 60/40 or even a 50/50 forward/ruck for us in time. Just watching how the kids 'naturally' time their attack on the football is a fair indicator of what they will develop into.
I do think a bit of exposure to both ends of the ground does help with development.
I really think Marra needs to pinch hit in defence occasionally and if he's still running under the ball at times it could help his timing a little.

[GVGjr]

Yep, we were certainly blessed with getting Naughton.

[dog town]

Training with other proven key position players is the best thing they can have for their development in my view. Think of how much a young forward would learn opposed to Steven May at training or a key defender dealing with Josh Kennedy at his very best.

[dog town]

Great example of Kennedy at training here. Knowing how hard to work, when to engage and when to hold etc is going to be much more quickly absorbed like this in my opinion.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r41lrxTbz9c

[GVGjr]

Great example of Kennedy at training here. Knowing how hard to work, when to engage and when to hold etc is going to be much more quickly absorbed like this in my opinion.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r41lrxTbz9c

Perfect example of a hard working and persistent training drill.

[Critter]

I believe it takes patience when developing key position players. Coaches need to possess a clear conception of how big players will fit into their game plan and, consequently, the skills and physical attributes they need to bring to their team. For example, the game plan might call for a fast, leading forward with good hands or a rebounding interceptor or a defensive gorilla who can match it on-on-one opposition with any opposition forward. Whatever. The task becomes, firstly, to find the likely types and, secondly, to develop the attributes that attracted you to them.

Coaching Essential One is to develop the skills central to your game plan. If, say, you have a gun midfield, stacked with elite kicking skills, you might recruit a fast, leading type. You would then coach marking skills on a lead, blocking patterns or fast spreading. If your half backs play high, you might recruit a defensive type capable of matching forwards in one-on-one contests resulting from fast-break turnovers. Coaching then would focus on defensive body positioning, spoiling, and ground positioning. Create Dale Morris mark II.

But you must also be aware that, generally, most opposition KPPs are strong men. If your KPPs can’t compete physically, their effectiveness will be limited. And that goes for ruckmen as well. For example: Zaine Cordy, Tim O’Brien, Josh Schache, early JUH, early Tim English. All have been monstered from time to time.

So, coaching Essential Two is to build strong cores. To build muscle. To build strength.
We have failed badly on this score. Too few players have had the strength to match it one on one with their direct opponent. Sweet perhaps, but he’s a ruckman. Naughton perhaps, but he’s a freak who slips any attempt to lock him up in a contest. The backline has struggled particularly in this regard.

But maybe no longer. At last, we seem to be on the right path. Smart recruiting has blessed us with a bevy of developing types who have potential – Darcy, Busslinger, Naughton, JUH, Raak, Gardner and Sweet. We also have mature types who can hold the fort as they mature – Jones, Lobb, Keath and Bruce. The coaching challenge is to develop a robust and consistent game plan that we stick to. Coach to it and continue to recruit to it. And build stronger bodies along the way.

[Stevo]

I believe it takes patience when developing key position players. Coaches need to possess a clear conception of how big players will fit into their game plan and, consequently, the skills and physical attributes they need to bring to their team. For example, the game plan might call for a fast, leading forward with good hands or a rebounding interceptor or a defensive gorilla who can match it on-on-one opposition with any opposition forward. Whatever. The task becomes, firstly, to find the likely types and, secondly, to develop the attributes that attracted you to them.

Coaching Essential One is to develop the skills central to your game plan. If, say, you have a gun midfield, stacked with elite kicking skills, you might recruit a fast, leading type. You would then coach marking skills on a lead, blocking patterns or fast spreading. If your half backs play high, you might recruit a defensive type capable of matching forwards in one-on-one contests resulting from fast-break turnovers. Coaching then would focus on defensive body positioning, spoiling, and ground positioning. Create Dale Morris mark II.

But you must also be aware that, generally, most opposition KPPs are strong men. If your KPPs can’t compete physically, their effectiveness will be limited. And that goes for ruckmen as well. For example: Zaine Cordy, Tim O’Brien, Josh Schache, early JUH, early Tim English. All have been monstered from time to time.

So, coaching Essential Two is to build strong cores. To build muscle. To build strength.
We have failed badly on this score. Too few players have had the strength to match it one on one with their direct opponent. Sweet perhaps, but he’s a ruckman. Naughton perhaps, but he’s a freak who slips any attempt to lock him up in a contest. The backline has struggled particularly in this regard.

But maybe no longer. At last, we seem to be on the right path. Smart recruiting has blessed us with a bevy of developing types who have potential – Darcy, Busslinger, Naughton, JUH, Raak, Gardner and Sweet. We also have mature types who can hold the fort as they mature – Jones, Lobb, Keath and Bruce. The coaching challenge is to develop a robust and consistent game plan that we stick to. Coach to it and continue to recruit to it. And build stronger bodies along the way.

What a post Critter. You are setting a very high benchmark.

[Bulldog Joe]

I believe it takes patience when developing key position players. Coaches need to possess a clear conception of how big players will fit into their game plan and, consequently, the skills and physical attributes they need to bring to their team. For example, the game plan might call for a fast, leading forward with good hands or a rebounding interceptor or a defensive gorilla who can match it on-on-one opposition with any opposition forward. Whatever. The task becomes, firstly, to find the likely types and, secondly, to develop the attributes that attracted you to them.

Coaching Essential One is to develop the skills central to your game plan. If, say, you have a gun midfield, stacked with elite kicking skills, you might recruit a fast, leading type. You would then coach marking skills on a lead, blocking patterns or fast spreading. If your half backs play high, you might recruit a defensive type capable of matching forwards in one-on-one contests resulting from fast-break turnovers. Coaching then would focus on defensive body positioning, spoiling, and ground positioning. Create Dale Morris mark II.

But you must also be aware that, generally, most opposition KPPs are strong men. If your KPPs can’t compete physically, their effectiveness will be limited. And that goes for ruckmen as well. For example: Zaine Cordy, Tim O’Brien, Josh Schache, early JUH, early Tim English. All have been monstered from time to time.

So, coaching Essential Two is to build strong cores. To build muscle. To build strength.
We have failed badly on this score. Too few players have had the strength to match it one on one with their direct opponent. Sweet perhaps, but he’s a ruckman. Naughton perhaps, but he’s a freak who slips any attempt to lock him up in a contest. The backline has struggled particularly in this regard.

But maybe no longer. At last, we seem to be on the right path. Smart recruiting has blessed us with a bevy of developing types who have potential – Darcy, Busslinger, Naughton, JUH, Raak, Gardner and Sweet. We also have mature types who can hold the fort as they mature – Jones, Lobb, Keath and Bruce. The coaching challenge is to develop a robust and consistent game plan that we stick to. Coach to it and continue to recruit to it. And build stronger bodies along the way.

A great post but I do have issue with your opening line.

This is a cart before the horse approach.

Coach has a list of players and needs to develop a game plan that fits with the skill set available.

To my mind it has been one of the frustrations of the Beveridge era.

Players are cast aside because of what they can't do without the opportunity to develop with what they can do.

Prime examples in Roughead and Lewis Young and probably Josh Schache.

We have had talls with certain skills that can be utilised at AFL level, but the coach has determined that they don't fit his game plan.

[bornadog]

A great post but I do have issue with your opening line.

This is a cart before the horse approach.

Coach has a list of players and needs to develop a game plan that fits with the skill set available.

To my mind it has been one of the frustrations of the Beveridge era.

Players are cast aside because of what they can't do without the opportunity to develop with what they can do.

Prime examples in Roughead and Lewis Young and probably Josh Schache.

We have had talls with certain skills that can be utilised at AFL level, but the coach has determined that they don't fit his game plan.

Exactly what Rocket did when he got to the club. Initially he had ideas about what the game plan should be, but once he got to know the players, he changed it up to suit their skill set.

[jeemak]

I believe it takes patience when developing key position players. Coaches need to possess a clear conception of how big players will fit into their game plan and, consequently, the skills and physical attributes they need to bring to their team. For example, the game plan might call for a fast, leading forward with good hands or a rebounding interceptor or a defensive gorilla who can match it on-on-one opposition with any opposition forward. Whatever. The task becomes, firstly, to find the likely types and, secondly, to develop the attributes that attracted you to them.

Coaching Essential One is to develop the skills central to your game plan. If, say, you have a gun midfield, stacked with elite kicking skills, you might recruit a fast, leading type. You would then coach marking skills on a lead, blocking patterns or fast spreading. If your half backs play high, you might recruit a defensive type capable of matching forwards in one-on-one contests resulting from fast-break turnovers. Coaching then would focus on defensive body positioning, spoiling, and ground positioning. Create Dale Morris mark II.

But you must also be aware that, generally, most opposition KPPs are strong men. If your KPPs can’t compete physically, their effectiveness will be limited. And that goes for ruckmen as well. For example: Zaine Cordy, Tim O’Brien, Josh Schache, early JUH, early Tim English. All have been monstered from time to time.

So, coaching Essential Two is to build strong cores. To build muscle. To build strength.
We have failed badly on this score. Too few players have had the strength to match it one on one with their direct opponent. Sweet perhaps, but he’s a ruckman. Naughton perhaps, but he’s a freak who slips any attempt to lock him up in a contest. The backline has struggled particularly in this regard.

But maybe no longer. At last, we seem to be on the right path. Smart recruiting has blessed us with a bevy of developing types who have potential – Darcy, Busslinger, Naughton, JUH, Raak, Gardner and Sweet. We also have mature types who can hold the fort as they mature – Jones, Lobb, Keath and Bruce. The coaching challenge is to develop a robust and consistent game plan that we stick to. Coach to it and continue to recruit to it. And build stronger bodies along the way.

Great post mate.

[jeemak]

A great post but I do have issue with your opening line.

This is a cart before the horse approach.

Coach has a list of players and needs to develop a game plan that fits with the skill set available.

To my mind it has been one of the frustrations of the Beveridge era.

Players are cast aside because of what they can't do without the opportunity to develop with what they can do.

Prime examples in Roughead and Lewis Young and probably Josh Schache.

We have had talls with certain skills that can be utilised at AFL level, but the coach has determined that they don't fit his game plan.

Roughy wasn't cast aside, and again, we offered a contract for Young and did whatever we could to get him to play at times even though it wasn't in his preferred position (and if you listen to the justifications from the coach, it was because we needed another player to take on a role that meant a spot opened up for him).

I do understand what you mean in terms of adapting a game plan for the cattle you have, however, I'm not sure those you mention would have been good enough to alter the intentions of the coaching team to give them a go when more committed players who were able to actually run and be committed to the structure/ standard required were available.

Do we really think in a sliding doors moment that saw a change in approach that gave Lewis Young or Josh Schache more opportunity in their preferred roles would have made a difference to our fortunes these past couple of years? Or Jordan Sweet?

Mainly my issues with Bevo are around patterns that have developed across vulnerabilities in the middle and team defence. Much of this is on the players, possibly most of it I guess, but that he hasn't been able to get consistent attention to detail in these areas frustrates me. And a different way of using fringe talls probably doesn't really change anything in them.

[Bulldog Joe]

Roughy wasn't cast aside, and again, we offered a contract for Young and did whatever we could to get him to play at times even though it wasn't in his preferred position (and if you listen to the justifications from the coach, it was because we needed another player to take on a role that meant a spot opened up for him).

I do understand what you mean in terms of adapting a game plan for the cattle you have, however, I'm not sure those you mention would have been good enough to alter the intentions of the coaching team to give them a go when more committed players who were able to actually run and be committed to the structure/ standard required were available.

Do we really think in a sliding doors moment that saw a change in approach that gave Lewis Young or Josh Schache more opportunity in their preferred roles would have made a difference to our fortunes these past couple of years? Or Jordan Sweet?

Mainly my issues with Bevo are around patterns that have developed across vulnerabilities in the middle and team defence. Much of this is on the players, possibly most of it I guess, but that he hasn't been able to get consistent attention to detail in these areas frustrates me. And a different way of using fringe talls probably doesn't really change anything in them.

Both Roughead and Young have had good seasons after their departure in positions of need for us.

You can offer any reasons they left, but the prime one was the lack of opportunity to continue playing with us.

This lack of opportunity I see as the Coach/Match Committee not valuing what they could do.

It is now old ground, but I want our current talls to develop to maximise their talents.

We probably need to accept that Sam Darcy will get burnt by a leading forward if we play him as a key defender.

We also need to find ways for our key forwards to get separation to assist them getting more uncontested ball.

The game plan needs to be developed to maximise their chance of success or we will see players like Jamarra and even Aaron Naughton not being as good as they could be.

[hujsh]

Both Roughead and Young have had good seasons after their departure in positions of need for us.

You can offer any reasons they left, but the prime one was the lack of opportunity to continue playing with us.

This lack of opportunity I see as the Coach/Match Committee not valuing what they could do.

It is now old ground, but I want our current talls to develop to maximise their talents.

We probably need to accept that Sam Darcy will get burnt by a leading forward if we play him as a key defender.

We also need to find ways for our key forwards to get separation to assist them getting more uncontested ball.

The game plan needs to be developed to maximise their chance of success or we will see players like Jamarra and even Aaron Naughton not being as good as they could be.

Roughead played every game he was fit and was the clear first choice ruckman. He didn't normally complete those games but he was selected regardless.

[1eyedog]

I believe it takes patience when developing key position players. Coaches need to possess a clear conception of how big players will fit into their game plan and, consequently, the skills and physical attributes they need to bring to their team. For example, the game plan might call for a fast, leading forward with good hands or a rebounding interceptor or a defensive gorilla who can match it on-on-one opposition with any opposition forward. Whatever. The task becomes, firstly, to find the likely types and, secondly, to develop the attributes that attracted you to them.

Coaching Essential One is to develop the skills central to your game plan. If, say, you have a gun midfield, stacked with elite kicking skills, you might recruit a fast, leading type. You would then coach marking skills on a lead, blocking patterns or fast spreading. If your half backs play high, you might recruit a defensive type capable of matching forwards in one-on-one contests resulting from fast-break turnovers. Coaching then would focus on defensive body positioning, spoiling, and ground positioning. Create Dale Morris mark II.

But you must also be aware that, generally, most opposition KPPs are strong men. If your KPPs can’t compete physically, their effectiveness will be limited. And that goes for ruckmen as well. For example: Zaine Cordy, Tim O’Brien, Josh Schache, early JUH, early Tim English. All have been monstered from time to time.

So, coaching Essential Two is to build strong cores. To build muscle. To build strength.
We have failed badly on this score. Too few players have had the strength to match it one on one with their direct opponent. Sweet perhaps, but he’s a ruckman. Naughton perhaps, but he’s a freak who slips any attempt to lock him up in a contest. The backline has struggled particularly in this regard.

But maybe no longer. At last, we seem to be on the right path. Smart recruiting has blessed us with a bevy of developing types who have potential – Darcy, Busslinger, Naughton, JUH, Raak, Gardner and Sweet. We also have mature types who can hold the fort as they mature – Jones, Lobb, Keath and Bruce. The coaching challenge is to develop a robust and consistent game plan that we stick to. Coach to it and continue to recruit to it. And build stronger bodies along the way.

Very good post. I agree that core strength is critical to a developing key position player, many of these kids are 6'6 at 18 and lack core strength, so it takes time on the track and in the gym to get them into a competitive position.

The other constraint is the skill set required to be a key position player at AFL level, particularly a key forward. It's tough. All footballers are taught to track the ball and apply pressure through junior footy so midfielders are already ahead of the curve when they arrive at AFL clubs because they've been pretty much doing the same thing since u/8. The skill set of a key forward doesn't really become apparent until much later, perhaps even u/14 - u/15 level, at least that's what I see at junior levels.

It's a great start to be tall and keen but learning to read the flight of the ball, use your body to protect the drop zone, time your fly and mark the thing - how many times have we seen fresh and even experienced KPP run under the bloody thing - and develop sophisticated leading patterns takes time, alot of time and practice to be ready for AFL level defenders. Then there's confidence and then, as you say there's core strength etc. Lastly, there are big talented guys standing next to you the entire match trying to kill anything and everything that comes your way. It's their sole focus and that's why the key forward role is the hardest position to play and that's why a good one is worth their weight in gold. Alot of pieces need to come together to make an effective KPP at AFL level, more than any other type of player so the hit / miss ratio is going to be higher for KPP as it has been for us for a long time.

We've been blessed with Naughton who was an elite mark coming into the club, he was strong, fast and agile and now he's one of the best key forwards in the country, Darcy is showing great signs as well. He can read the flight of the ball very well and knows how to position himself to compete in aerial contests, these are great traits but not every key forward has them at a high level, and most take much longer to fully develop them.

[Bulldog Joe]

Roughead played every game he was fit and was the clear first choice ruckman. He didn't normally complete those games but he was selected regardless.

We clearly have different recollections.

In his last year he had clearly been replaced as first choice ruckman by Jackson Trengove (don't get me started there) at years end with Tim English looming to replace him.

He had previously shown an ability as a key back and Collingwood put him precisely in that role which remained a position we were under-resourced in.

[dog town]

We clearly have different recollections.

In his last year he had clearly been replaced as first choice ruckman by Jackson Trengove (don't get me started there) at years end with Tim English looming to replace him.

He had previously shown an ability as a key back and Collingwood put him precisely in that role which remained a position we were under-resourced in.

Roughy limped off with bandages on every limb basically every second game we played him towards the end. Managed to get his body right when he got to Collingwood but Roughy really struggled with us late in his tenure. Definitely in hindsight it looked like we should have kept him but at the time I was supportive, he simply couldn’t stay on the field for a full game.

[hujsh]

We clearly have different recollections.

In his last year he had clearly been replaced as first choice ruckman by Jackson Trengove (don't get me started there) at years end with Tim English looming to replace him.

He had previously shown an ability as a key back and Collingwood put him precisely in that role which remained a position we were under-resourced in.

I looked into this because I was very sure I was right (not really). He missed a large chunk of the start of the year to injury, played 3 poor games in the middle that had people here calling for him to be dropped/writing him off physically and then he played the last 7 games of the year. Dropped for 5 games all up. Probably doing split duty with Trengove at the end in the usual 50/50 split Bevo had been doing since 2016 but that's just conjecture from my end.

When he did play I recall his injury scares reminding me of Chris Grant when he was running around with his body stitched together with duct tape and mattress parts.

It is interesting now seeing the recent Josh Bruce interview where he went to the coaches and asked to train in defence to wonder if Roughead did the same thing (or more likely why did he not?). It seems like they're pretty open to listening to players requests around these things.

His interviews post departure seem to indicate he felt a need for change whether that be due to frustration with his body, feeling stagnant or just hating Bevo because Bevo is a bastard man.

[mjp]

Coaching Essential One is to develop the skills central to your game plan. If, say, you have a gun midfield, stacked with elite kicking skills, you might recruit a fast, leading type. You would then coach marking skills on a lead, blocking patterns or fast spreading. If your half backs play high, you might recruit a defensive type capable of matching forwards in one-on-one contests resulting from fast-break turnovers. Coaching then would focus on defensive body positioning, spoiling, and ground positioning. Create Dale Morris mark II.

But you must also be aware that, generally, most opposition KPPs are strong men. If your KPPs can’t compete physically, their effectiveness will be limited. And that goes for ruckmen as well. For example: Zaine Cordy, Tim O’Brien, Josh Schache, early JUH, early Tim English. All have been monstered from time to time.

So, coaching Essential Two is to build strong cores. To build muscle. To build strength.
We have failed badly on this score. Too few players have had the strength to match it one on one with their direct opponent. Sweet perhaps, but he’s a ruckman. Naughton perhaps, but he’s a freak who slips any attempt to lock him up in a contest. The backline has struggled particularly in this regard.


So - #1 is game-plan specific skills and #2 is strength based?

I can see where you are coming from to an extent but there are two challenges that sit 'underneath' those two points on the dev pyramid.

Coaching Essential #1 is base skill fundamentals. This has to remain the holy grail and should NOT be impacted by game-plan. Whether you are Zac Dawson or Caleb Daniel (trying for either end of the kicking scale) you need to be able to hit a 20m switch 100/100. You need to be able to gather a ground ball at speed. Etc.

Coaching Essential #2 is situational play - again, this is pretty much game-plan agnostic. It is teaching forwards when to mark, when to bring to ground...a defender when to mark vs spoil...on and on it goes. I guess some of this is game-plan dependent (are we a front of stoppage or back and around team etc.

Coaching Essential #3 becomes team STRUCTURE related (not game-style) and - this sucks - but under-sized or too slow or whatever the short-coming might be, the ROLE is the ROLE. So if you find yourself as the deepest defender (who may or may not have 1v1 responsibility) then you need to understand what is expected of that role and execute...of course, there are 'genetics' and 's&c' branches to this tree but at the same time - if there's an injury and an undersized player needs to play vs Tom Hawkins, then they simply need to know what is expected given the situation AND where the help will/should come from...

The 'build stronger bodies' stuff...I don't know. This is really a high-performance responsibility - understanding what the senior coach is looking for in terms of baseline position and the primary physical characteristics of that role and working out the physical development requirements in the short-medium-long term. Busslinger (for example) is an absolutely terrible runner...if the focus on him is getting him to be stronger AHEAD of working through his running mediation then he is going to be getting injured for the next 10 years...I would almost say the Hi-performance manager has a responsibility to the CLUB to develop the players as THEY see fit rather than how the senior coach sees it (to a point). The senior coach could be gone in 2-years...hopefully a first year player like Busslinger is still at the club in 2030 and the HP coach needs to develop him PHYSICALLY not develop him to play 'one' role that might not even be appropriate in the near future.

I know you have said the backline has struggled to put strong bodies on the field to compete with the oppo...I'm not completely convinced this is the case (though certainly back in the Eade years it seemed Lake was so often a lone hand, ditto Wallace with Croft who was undersized hence the Grant to CHB bandaid)...BUT sometimes you have to wonder why when we KNOW our backs are undersized (Structure) why we wouldn't defend front of stoppage from F50 back a little better...but, there ya go!

[FrediKanoute]

Let's not forget Naughton at pick 9 who goes ok, and I still think given Gardner's fanatical approach to training he gets to 100 games for us.

JUH is a slow-burn and I'm not sure he ever becomes a no 1 forward. Darcy could well and up a 60/40 or even a 50/50 forward/ruck for us in time. Just watching how the kids 'naturally' time their attack on the football is a fair indicator of what they will develop into.
I do think a bit of exposure to both ends of the ground does help with development.
I really think Marra needs to pinch hit in defence occasionally and if he's still running under the ball at times it could help his timing a little.

Marra to me is more a Micky O or a Nicky Winmar type player. If he is half as good as either I will be stoked

[Bigdog]

Probably doesn’t have the tank yet, but I’d like to see Marra eventually get runs on ball as a burst mid.

Pretty sure he has said previously that he see’s himself as a mid long term aswell.

[Mofra]

Probably doesn’t have the tank yet, but I’d like to see Marra eventually get runs on ball as a burst mid.

Pretty sure he has said previously that he see’s himself as a mid long term aswell.
I actually don't mind the idea of a mobile forward getting a couple of minutes higher up the ground if they aren't getting much ball in the F50. Marra as a leading, linking player delivering into the F50 certainly has the skillset - he's far better on the lead than in a contested situation (at the moment) and he turns his player pretty well at this stage to get moving towards the goal.

[bornadog]

We know tall players take longer to develop. Don't ask me what the science is behind that, but they seem to not really get going till around 25 years old. Tim is a classic case whilst showing glimpses of his ability, he has now started to mature.

Clubs don't seem to have the patience to wait for young ruckman to mature, although recently a few have emerged like De Koning.

My main concern is Developing Backman - since following the club, we have had very few good tall fullbacks with Lake being our best over the past 30 plus years. Before Lake we had Kennedy in the 80s. In the early 90s, we lacked a fullback to take on the big forwards in the finals (1992 comes to mind), same in the Wallace era. Under Rocket, Lake came along, but since then we have tried to import players such as Trengove, but he ended up playing more ruck than fullback. Keath was recruited, but his best position is more an interceptor than a one on one fullback.

Despite drafting Busslinger, who is not a FB, we haven't drafted and developed anyone in the FB role for a long time. Fletcher, was ok, Hamling worked for a little while.

We really need to target some young tall backs as our backline is ageing (besides Gardner) and get them ready for when Jones and Keath retire.

[Go_Dogs]

To be fair, we drafted Naughton as a key defender too BAD, he just became a stud forward overnight after an incredible first season as a young KP defender.

I think we’ve been investing a lot of early picks in talls over recent years and have started to hit those picks and have more fortune with them than we were in the 00’s and 2010’s for example. Players like Wight, Williams, Skipper, Everitt, Grant etc just never panned out. Our strike rate over the past 6/7 years is significantly better.

[bornadog]

To be fair, we drafted Naughton as a key defender too BAD, he just became a stud forward overnight after an incredible first season as a young KP defender.

True, but that was 5 years ago :D Since then we haven't.

[hujsh]

We know tall players take longer to develop. Don't ask me what the science is behind that, but they seem to not really get going till around 25 years old. Tim is a classic case whilst showing glimpses of his ability, he has now started to mature.

Clubs don't seem to have the patience to wait for young ruckman to mature, although recently a few have emerged like De Koning.

My main concern is Developing Backman - since following the club, we have had very few good tall fullbacks with Lake being our best over the past 30 plus years. Before Lake we had Kennedy in the 80s. In the early 90s, we lacked a fullback to take on the big forwards in the finals (1992 comes to mind), same in the Wallace era. Under Rocket, Lake came along, but since then we have tried to import players such as Trengove, but he ended up playing more ruck than fullback. Keath was recruited, but his best position is more an interceptor than a one on one fullback.

Despite drafting Busslinger, who is not a FB, we haven't drafted and developed anyone in the FB role for a long time. Fletcher, was ok, Hamling worked for a little while.

We really need to target some young tall backs as our backline is ageing (besides Gardner) and get them ready for when Jones and Keath retire.

...so what is he?

[bornadog]

...so what is he?

I think he is more an intercepting CHB, but time will tell how he is developed.

[Mofra]

To be fair, we drafted Naughton as a key defender too BAD, he just became a stud forward overnight after an incredible first season as a young KP defender.

I think we’ve been investing a lot of early picks in talls over recent years and have started to hit those picks and have more fortune with them than we were in the 00’s and 2010’s for example. Players like Wight, Williams, Skipper, Everitt, Grant etc just never panned out. Our strike rate over the past 6/7 years is significantly better.
We've also chased quite a few at the trade table - McKay, Collins, Payne just in the last few years alone.

Gardner as a mid-season pick is certainly ahead of where most mid-season rookies end up too. He's got his detractors but the kid works his arse off and gives 100% whenever he plays, often with a high TOG which helps our rotations too.

[Critter]

We've also chased quite a few at the trade table - McKay, Collins, Payne just in the last few years alone.

Gardner as a mid-season pick is certainly ahead of where most mid-season rookies end up too. He's got his detractors but the kid works his arse off and gives 100% whenever he plays, often with a high TOG which helps our rotations too.

Hear hear! I must admit to having been extremely doubtful of Gardner's value in earlier days but I feel he is developing nicely into a very useful role player. He has pace, a keen defensive instinct and is a reasonable kick. I thought he collected a few scalps last season.

[Dazza]

I feel like talls need a chance to come good in the one position before being thrown around the field. Bad games will come especially early in a career but I feel like you need to persist with a couple blips on the radar and not drop them after a couple of bad games.

[Go_Dogs]

I feel like talls need a chance to come good in the one position before being thrown around the field. Bad games will come especially early in a career but I feel like you need to persist with a couple blips on the radar and not drop them after a couple of bad games.

Agree Dazza. It’s a balance to maintain their confidence (eg not let them get slaughtered in a career killing fashion) but back them in to keep learning and improving at the highest level if they’re ticking the boxes with role / work effort / training standards etc.

[jeemak]

We've also chased quite a few at the trade table - McKay, Collins, Payne just in the last few years alone.

Gardner as a mid-season pick is certainly ahead of where most mid-season rookies end up too. He's got his detractors but the kid works his arse off and gives 100% whenever he plays, often with a high TOG which helps our rotations too.

If Gardner continues to progress he'll be an absolute steal as a mid-season draft selection.

His reception to the football club from supporters was completely vile, however, it's good to see him change hearts and minds over time - hopefully he can continue to develop his skill level and confidence as he is vital to us going forward.

[gohardorgohome]

If Gardner continues to progress he'll be an absolute steal as a mid-season draft selection.

His reception to the football club from supporters was completely vile, however, it's good to see him change hearts and minds over time - hopefully he can continue to develop his skill level and confidence as he is vital to us going forward.

Our version of Essendon’s Kevin Walsh… much maligned… ended up as a double premiership player who played for Victoria.