Why the Bulldogs will take a tumble in 2023

[bornadog]

link (https://www.zerohanger.com/why-the-bulldogs-will-take-a-tumble-in-2023-133268/)

https://www.zerohanger.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bulldogs-feature-1-324x160.jpg

The Western Bulldogs have probably had the strangest decade in the AFL out of any other team.

They went from being an average side to an exciting young team that won a flag in 2016, to becoming an average side once again before making another push for glory in 2021, making the Grand Final and at one point having a strong grip on the cup.

Whilst the Dogs still possess loads of talent, they're likely to endure a significant drop in 2023.

Luke Beveridge's side had an extremely disappointing end to the 2022 season, blowing a 42-3 lead against the Dockers in the Elimination Final after just sneaking into the eight.

Since then, the Bulldogs' list team has been forced to make changes over the off-season.

Despite the additions of key forward Rory Lobb and exiled key defender Liam Jones, the Footscray-based side has lost their best and fairest from 2022 in Josh Dunkley whilst also losing premiership winger Lachie Hunter to the Dees.

With that all said, we discuss why the Dogs may be in for a poor year and one that could see them as low as the bottom six.

The Beveridge bother

Luke Beveridge (https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/coaches/luke-beveridge/) will forever be known for bringing together a group of seemingly underaged players to glory in 2016.
However, since then, he has generally had a hard time of it as coach, often criticised for poor decisions on the field.
Even more critically, Beveridge and his coaching staff have found it difficult to retain star players.

Over the last few years alone, the Dogs have lost premiership players Josh Dunkley (https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/players/josh-dunkley/), Luke Dahlhaus (https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/players/luke-dahlhaus/), Jake Stringer (https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/players/jake-stringer/) and Lachie Hunter (https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/players/lachlan-hunter/), with questions raised over the relationships they had with their coach.

Further theories suggest there is an issue with Beveridge's character at the club, something that often filters down to the players and ultimately affects player performance.

Cultural complications

As aforementioned, poor relationships between some players and the coach are likely to eventually trickle down to players.

And based on what past players have mentioned, there seems to be a significant issue at Whitten Oval.
With culture now such a significant part of a football club and a huge indicator of success, a poor culture is the last thing Luke Beveridge and his side needs.

Elucidating the importance of culture was the Richmond (https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/teams/richmond-tigers/) dynasty from 2017-2020, where players were often seen laughing and messing about before games and hanging out as friends off the field.

The Dunkley dilemma

Whilst Dunkley's comments about the culture at Whitten Oval are concerning, perhaps an even greater concern is the fact that the Dogs have lost their best player last year.
On a side that has always been a strong contested ball and clearance team, losing one of their best hard-ball players could have a major impact on Luke Beveridge's system.

One area that was a major weakness for the Bulldogs last year was their tackling, an area where they ranked 14th in the competition.

For a team that has a relatively poor backline, a lack of pressure means easier entries into the opposition's forward 50 and hence more goals.

Most pivotally, Dunkley was by far the best tackler for the Western Bulldogs last season, averaging in excess of six tackles a game, ranking 11th in the entire competition.

Whilst there are plenty of other star midfielders in their team, they don't have someone with the same tenacity or presence that Dunkley has.

Filling in the gaps

Unfortunately for Beveridge and his side, the Bulldogs have far too many positions where they have a limited amount of stock on offer.

The most glaring of these is their batch of small defenders, which appears far too aggressive.

In fact, their backline as a whole looks a bit shaky despite the addition of Liam Jones (https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/players/liam-jones/), who was great for the Blues but hasn't played professional football for close to 18 months.

Without him last year, the Bulldogs conceded the most points out of any side in the top 11 and at times were unable to stop surges of goals at a time.

Tough Start

With a lot of change in and around the club, the last thing that Beveridge and his side will be wanting is a poor start to the season.

However, with their first six games against the Demons (A), St Kilda (https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/teams/st-kilda-saints/) (H), Brisbane (https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/teams/brisbane-lions/) (H), Richmond (https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/teams/richmond-tigers/) (A), Port Adelaide (https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/teams/adelaide-crows/) (A) and Fremantle (https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/teams/fremantle-dockers/) (in Adelaide (https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/teams/adelaide-crows/)), a subpar beginning to the season looks well and truly on the cards.

In fact, of those, the Bulldogs are likely to go in as underdogs in five of those six games and are by no means a certainty against the Saints.

With an allegedly clicky culture and the potential for a really poor start, the Dogs look to be vulnerable in 2023.

[Grantysghost]

Worst article ever. That person should be forced to eat a print out of it in Barkly St.

Thanks for share though !

[Axe Man]

I read this and decided not to bother posting here because it is absolute garbage unworthy of our fine website. The author should be a gossip columnist.

[Grantysghost]

The Dunkley point was reasonable, and the fixture. The rest is trash padding.

Had an idea, tried to make it work. Failed.

[bornadog]

I read this and decided not to bother posting here because it is absolute garbage unworthy of our fine website. The author should be a gossip columnist.

I can delete it if you want, but worth also putting up negative articles for discussion.

Many flaws in his article including guessing about culture, saying Dunks was our best player, (cough, cough Bont) no one with tenacity like Dunks (Libba says hello).

[Axe Man]

I can delete it if you want, but worth also putting up negative articles for discussion.

Many flaws in his article including guessing about culture, saying Dunks was our best player, (cough, cough Bont) no one with tenacity like Dunks (Libba says hello).

No, it's fine, not having a go at you, just emphasizing what a steaming turd that article is.

If he wants to write an opinion piece about how he thinks we will tumble down the ladder, fine. But perhaps do some research and don't present fanciful rumours and innuendo as fact.

[Sedat]

The Dunkley point was reasonable, and the fixture. The rest is trash padding.

Had an idea, tried to make it work. Failed.
To think a Greek wrote that trash. We have a reputation for intelligence and sophistication to uphold dammit!

[Mantis]

Whilst there is a lot of guess work in the article (about the culture) there are a couple of points that I sort of agree on:

1/ Mid-sized defenders - can/will they defend? I'm concerned about the ability of this group (Richards, Dale & Duryea) to defend.

2/ Tackling - our turnover game has been awful and losing our best tackler (Dunkley) doesn't help in this area. Hoping we defend the ground better in 2023.

And we do have a very tough start to the year... but if our attitude is right, we will be in the mix for a top 4 spot... but if its half arsed, and with the competition very even it could very easily be a tough year.

[mjp]

He's not wrong.

Cultural questions - we've all asked them. Dunks comments - we all wonder what the truth is about the culture and what is 'WRONG' ('cos it often looks like something is wrong). Bevo is a unique talent as a coach but he DOES do some things that drive all of us crazy - when I posted a thread about this with a poll the responses were many and varied. We ARE skinny for small defenders and goodness knows what's gonna happen if Doc is out for an extended time (and he's getting old so that is highly likely). We DO have a tough draw to start the season.

Hell - he could have added in "what are they thinking with that forward line", "Do they have any idea what they will get from Rory Lobb or Liam Jones", "Is Tim English EVER going to deliver on his promise in a game that matters" and "Is there any chance that Alex Keath returns to 2021 form 'cos they darn well need him". And on top of that, he could have added in the David King "They still don't have a true intercept player on their list" angle as well.

Plus, he used the word "Elucidating" - that's a 50-cent word in ANY article.

If you think we will slide, there are a lot of reasons why it could happen...

[Happy Days]

As aforementioned, poor relationships between some players and the coach are likely to eventually trickle down to players.


So what do we reckon, was this written by ChatGPT or a primary schooler?

[hujsh]

So what do we reckon, was this written by ChatGPT or a primary schooler?

Ask if it would use a slur to stop an atomic bomb. That's that only surefire way I'm aware of to know if it's a chatbot

[BornInDroopSt'54]

To think a Greek wrote that trash. We have a reputation of intelligence and sophistication to uphold dammit!

Thats why this Irishman married a Greek for her beauty and she is very intelligent, winning David Hume award as top 1st year philosophy student haha. Divorced but friends still.
Two out of three kids are FFC members :)

[Sedat]

He's not wrong.

Cultural questions - we've all asked them. Dunks comments - we all wonder what the truth is about the culture and what is 'WRONG' ('cos it often looks like something is wrong). Bevo is a unique talent as a coach but he DOES do some things that drive all of us crazy - when I posted a thread about this with a poll the responses were many and varied. We ARE skinny for small defenders and goodness knows what's gonna happen if Doc is out for an extended time (and he's getting old so that is highly likely). We DO have a tough draw to start the season.

Hell - he could have added in "what are they thinking with that forward line", "Do they have any idea what they will get from Rory Lobb or Liam Jones", "Is Tim English EVER going to deliver on his promise in a game that matters" and "Is there any chance that Alex Keath returns to 2021 form 'cos they darn well need him". And on top of that, he could have added in the David King "They still don't have a true intercept player on their list" angle as well.

Plus, he used the word "Elucidating" - that's a 50-cent word in ANY article.

If you think we will slide, there are a lot of reasons why it could happen...
The article is trash not because of the assertion that we might slide (it's definitely a possibility) but because the majority of what he wrote is generic surface level and generalisations (small defenders is the only really relevant question asked) and doesn't ask enough genuinely interesting and important questions, of which there are many and varied (ie: the bolded bits).

I would add the midfield mix and our propenslty to be bees to the honeypot last year (much like Melbourne were in 2020) - losing Dunks is related but that isn't a cultural issue, it is midfield player type/depth and coaching. The English question is the most important one IMO - if he breaks out in 2023 as a proper bonafide elite stoppage ruckman, we massively benefit in so many different ways. If it is more of the same non-competitive efforts at stoppage from him against the better rucks in the competition (as the last 4 years), we will find it awfully difficult to compete against the best teams in the business, let alone hold our ground mid-table. There are so many important and interesting questions about our prospects in 2023 that weren't even touched on at all by this author.

[bornadog]

There are so many important and interesting questions about our prospects in 2023 that weren't even touched on at all by this author.

Nail on the head.

Will be an interesting season.

[1eyedog]

You could write this about any team. Melbourne's forwardline for example, losing Dogga to Freo etc.
Their capitulation in both finals last year.

I wasn't aware that we had a cultural issue at the club and that it may trickle down to the players. Is there really something wrong? Getting rid of Stringer and Hunter were the right calls, they were toxic personalities, harsh but true. Dunkley went for money and Dahlhaus, who cares, he went home.

Surprised he didn't focus on Treloar wanting in, Lobb wanting in, Jones wanting to come back, Duryea wanting in and Alex Keath wanting in through those stages as well.

More importantly though are the signings. Our genuine superstars have bought into Bevo's message and are sticking together. Doesn't sound like something is rotten at the kennel at all.

[bornadog]

You could write this about any team. Melbourne's forwardline for example, losing Dogga to Freo etc.
Their capitulation in both finals last year.

I wasn't aware that we had a cultural issue at the club and that it may trickle down to the players. Is there really something wrong? Getting rid of Stringer and Hunter were the right calls, they were toxic personalities, harsh but true. Dunkley went for money and Dahlhaus, who cares, he went home.

Surprised he didn't focus on Treloar wanting in, Lobb wanting in, Jones wanting to come back, Duryea wanting in and Alex Keath wanting in through those stages as well.

More importantly though are the signings. Our genuine superstars have bought into Bevo's message and are sticking together. Doesn't sound like something is rotten at the kennel at all.

Don't forget Easternwests favourite player Suckling wanting in :D

[1eyedog]

Don't forget Easternwests favourite player Suckling wanting in :D

So close to signing Matthew Lobbe at the same times as Piggy too don't forget.

[Rocket Science]

He's not wrong...

Plus, he used the word "Elucidating" - that's a 50-cent word in ANY article.





Yeah but he also typed the word "clicky" then merrily hit 'publish' with a clique of his trusty mouse.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Whilst there is a lot of guess work in the article (about the culture) there are a couple of points that I sort of agree on:

1/ Mid-sized defenders - can/will they defend? I'm concerned about the ability of this group (Richards, Dale & Duryea) to defend.

2/ Tackling - our turnover game has been awful and losing our best tackler (Dunkley) doesn't help in this area. Hoping we defend the ground better in 2023.

And we do have a very tough start to the year... but if our attitude is right, we will be in the mix for a top 4 spot... but if its half arsed, and with the competition very even it could very easily be a tough year.

I'm not as concerned about the mid sized defenders, but part of that relates to the major issue you raise of addressing the way we defend the ground,

I tend to think a lot of our defensive issues were a by-product of poor overall team defence

It is indeed a tough start - good goal kicking conversion early could get us off to a flyer




He's not wrong.

Cultural questions - we've all asked them. Dunks comments - we all wonder what the truth is about the culture and what is 'WRONG' ('cos it often looks like something is wrong). Bevo is a unique talent as a coach but he DOES do some things that drive all of us crazy - when I posted a thread about this with a poll the responses were many and varied. We ARE skinny for small defenders and goodness knows what's gonna happen if Doc is out for an extended time (and he's getting old so that is highly likely). We DO have a tough draw to start the season.

Hell - he could have added in "what are they thinking with that forward line", "Do they have any idea what they will get from Rory Lobb or Liam Jones", "Is Tim English EVER going to deliver on his promise in a game that matters" and "Is there any chance that Alex Keath returns to 2021 form 'cos they darn well need him". And on top of that, he could have added in the David King "They still don't have a true intercept player on their list" angle as well.

Plus, he used the word "Elucidating" - that's a 50-cent word in ANY article.

If you think we will slide, there are a lot of reasons why it could happen...



Yeah, culture question worth asking/raising but some of the front end was a bit over indulged though on little real evidence - the coach might have his moments, but he has often got us to the finals, and has twice seen us have pretty magical Septembers

The player turnover was a longish bow the way written - but then maybe we can question why we haven't harnessed some of our less focused players?

[MrMahatma]

So what do we reckon, was this written by ChatGPT or a primary schooler?

I asked ChatGPT "Tell me why the Western Bulldogs will fail in 2023" and this is the response - which has some familiar themes!

As an AI language model, I cannot predict the future with certainty, but I can provide some possible reasons why the Western Bulldogs might not perform well in 2023:

Stronger competition: The Australian Football League (AFL) is highly competitive, and there are always teams that improve from season to season. The Western Bulldogs may struggle if they face tougher opponents in 2023.

Injuries: Injuries can have a significant impact on a team's performance, and if the Western Bulldogs experience a significant number of injuries to key players, they may struggle to maintain their form.

Internal conflicts: Any team can be affected by internal conflicts or discord, and if the Western Bulldogs experience such issues, it could impact their performance on the field.

Changes in coaching staff: The coaching staff plays a critical role in a team's success, and if the Western Bulldogs experience changes in their coaching staff, it may take time for the players to adjust to new strategies and tactics.

Loss of key players: The Western Bulldogs may struggle if they lose key players to injury or to other teams in the offseason. It can be challenging to replace a star player, and it may take time for the team to find a suitable replacement.

It's worth noting, however, that these are merely speculative reasons and that the Western Bulldogs have a strong team with experienced players and a solid track record. Ultimately, it's impossible to predict with certainty how they will perform in 2023.

[Happy Days]

Damn that’s actually pretty close.

[Grantysghost]

I asked ChatGPT "Tell me why the Western Bulldogs will fail in 2023" and this is the response - which has some familiar themes!

As an AI language model, I cannot predict the future with certainty, but I can provide some possible reasons why the Western Bulldogs might not perform well in 2023:

Stronger competition: The Australian Football League (AFL) is highly competitive, and there are always teams that improve from season to season. The Western Bulldogs may struggle if they face tougher opponents in 2023.

Injuries: Injuries can have a significant impact on a team's performance, and if the Western Bulldogs experience a significant number of injuries to key players, they may struggle to maintain their form.

Internal conflicts: Any team can be affected by internal conflicts or discord, and if the Western Bulldogs experience such issues, it could impact their performance on the field.

Changes in coaching staff: The coaching staff plays a critical role in a team's success, and if the Western Bulldogs experience changes in their coaching staff, it may take time for the players to adjust to new strategies and tactics.

Loss of key players: The Western Bulldogs may struggle if they lose key players to injury or to other teams in the offseason. It can be challenging to replace a star player, and it may take time for the team to find a suitable replacement.

It's worth noting, however, that these are merely speculative reasons and that the Western Bulldogs have a strong team with experienced players and a solid track record. Ultimately, it's impossible to predict with certainty how they will perform in 2023.

It's like there's a template to express your theme.

[The bulldog tragician]

Have I missed something in terms of Dunkley explicitly talking about the culture?

Was Dahlhaus a better player at his new club? Jake Stringer has certainly not been. He would have been on stronger ground if he mentioned Roughead’s departure.

While “elucidating” on Richmond’s better culture he mentions them laughing and hanging out together. Maybe a visit to Seddon on any weekday would show him that our guys do this on a regular basis. They can be clicky with the best of them! They go on holidays together, and the influence of Bont in helping younger teammates undertake extra training to succeed in the off season is often mentioned. What’s it like inside 4 walls? We don’t know, but neither does this “author.”

What does he mean by issues with Bevo’s “character”? Has he turned up drunk/stoned and incoherent at club functions, run off with a club physio, been investigated for off colour comments and behaviour towards a young female staffer, as other coaches (two of them premiership winners) have? Character is not the same as baffling selection tactics or grouchiness towards the media.

Maybe we’ll slip this year, maybe we won’t, we’re all occasionally anxious/bewildered by things we see, and we’re not immune from criticism. I have no idea what 2023 will be like but I doubt I’ll be returning to this article as a source of truth if things go pear shaped.

[bornadog]

I asked ChatGPT "Tell me why the Western Bulldogs will fail in 2023" and this is the response - which has some familiar themes!

As an AI language model, I cannot predict the future with certainty, but I can provide some possible reasons why the Western Bulldogs might not perform well in 2023:

Stronger competition: The Australian Football League (AFL) is highly competitive, and there are always teams that improve from season to season. The Western Bulldogs may struggle if they face tougher opponents in 2023.

Injuries: Injuries can have a significant impact on a team's performance, and if the Western Bulldogs experience a significant number of injuries to key players, they may struggle to maintain their form.

Internal conflicts: Any team can be affected by internal conflicts or discord, and if the Western Bulldogs experience such issues, it could impact their performance on the field.

Changes in coaching staff: The coaching staff plays a critical role in a team's success, and if the Western Bulldogs experience changes in their coaching staff, it may take time for the players to adjust to new strategies and tactics.

Loss of key players: The Western Bulldogs may struggle if they lose key players to injury or to other teams in the offseason. It can be challenging to replace a star player, and it may take time for the team to find a suitable replacement.

It's worth noting, however, that these are merely speculative reasons and that the Western Bulldogs have a strong team with experienced players and a solid track record. Ultimately, it's impossible to predict with certainty how they will perform in 2023.

On the other hand I asked why they will finish top 4. Stuffed up with Dunkley but here it is:


As an AI language model, I cannot predict the future, so I cannot say for certain that the Western Bulldogs will finish in the top 4 in 2023. However, I can provide some information about the team's current status and their chances of finishing in the top 4 based on past performance and analysis of the team's strengths.


The Western Bulldogs are a talented team with a strong track record of success in the AFL. They have a balanced squad with experienced players and emerging young talent, including Marcus Bontempelli, Josh Dunkley, and Aaron Naughton. The team also has a strong and experienced coaching staff, led by Luke Beveridge.


Here are some reasons why the Western Bulldogs may finish in the top 4 in 2023:


Strong midfield: The Western Bulldogs have a strong midfield, with Bontempelli, Dunkley, and Jack Macrae among the best in the league. They are capable of dominating the clearance battles and generating scoring opportunities for the team.


Defensive strength: The Western Bulldogs have a solid defense, led by Alex Keath and Caleb Daniel, which can limit the opposition's scoring opportunities and provide a solid foundation for the team's attacking play.


Emerging talent: The Western Bulldogs have several young players who are showing great potential, including Naughton, who is one of the most promising young forwards in the league. These players have the potential to provide a boost to the team's performance and help them finish in the top 4.


Experience: The Western Bulldogs have a squad with a good mix of experienced players and young talent, which gives them a balanced approach to the game. This experience will be valuable in pressure situations and can help them secure victories against tough opposition.


Overall, the Western Bulldogs have a good chance of finishing in the top 4 in 2023, but as with any sports team, there are many factors that could influence their success. Factors such as injuries, form, and opposition performance could all impact their performance, and it remains to be seen how they will fare in the coming season.

[Grantysghost]

However, I can offer some potential reasons why the Brisbane Lions might finish in the bottom 4 in 2023, which could result in the Western Bulldogs receiving a high draft pick:

Loss of Key Players: If the Brisbane Lions lose key players to injury, retirement, or transfer, it could weaken their squad and make it harder for them to compete at a high level.

Tough Schedule: If the Brisbane Lions have a difficult schedule and are matched up against strong opponents early in the season, it could set the tone for a challenging season.

Inconsistent Performance: If the Brisbane Lions struggle with inconsistency and are unable to string together wins, it could result in a downward spiral and a lower ladder finish.

Strong Competition: The competition in the AFL is always tough, and the other teams in the league could improve significantly in 2023, making it harder for the Brisbane Lions to compete at the top of the ladder.

New Coach: If the Brisbane Lions have a new coach who is still adjusting to the team and the league, it could take time for them to implement their strategies and get the team playing at its best.

If any of these factors come into play, it could result in the Brisbane Lions finishing in the bottom 4, and the Western Bulldogs receiving a higher draft pick as a result. However, it's important to note that these are just potential reasons and that many other factors could come into play that may affect the final outcome

[josie]

Clique does not equal click. Grammar in journalism of recent times is often poor.

IMO mostly a poor quality article.

Good points made by BAD and other woofers. I still like to read articles about dogs I might largely disagree with.

Journo (that’s an exaggeration) seems to have a beef with Bevo.

[The Underdog]

Say what you like and it ranges from good points to conjecture, but it certainly covers most of my fears about the things that could go wrong in a worse case scenario.

[bornadog]

Say what you like and it ranges from good points to conjecture, but it certainly covers most of my fears about the things that could go wrong in a worse case scenario.

My biggest fear is our defensive system that broke down last year. This is our biggest concern. Yes we added Jones, but team defense breakdown can't happen again.

[Bulldog Legend]

This really is a stupid article
A club that has Bont playing for them had not lost their best player. Dunkley benefited last year from Bont carrying injuries as well as numerous other players. Yes he had a good year but only a completely clueless journalist could think he can’t be covered.

[1eyedog]

This really is a stupid article
A club that has Bont playing for them had not lost their best player. Dunkley benefited last year from Bont carrying injuries as well as numerous other players. Yes he had a good year but only a completely clueless journalist could think he can’t be covered.

Dunkley needed to have a good year it was in his best interest.

[azabob]

My biggest fear is our defensive system that broke down last year. This is our biggest concern. Yes we added Jones, but team defense breakdown can't happen again.

Yep team defence and our 1st ruck are the two huge watch outs for me.

[WBFC4FFC]

I asked ChatGPT "Tell me why the Western Bulldogs will fail in 2023" and this is the response - which has some familiar themes!

As an AI language model, I cannot predict the future with certainty, but I can provide some possible reasons why the Western Bulldogs might not perform well in 2023:

Stronger competition: The Australian Football League (AFL) is highly competitive, and there are always teams that improve from season to season. The Western Bulldogs may struggle if they face tougher opponents in 2023.

Injuries: Injuries can have a significant impact on a team's performance, and if the Western Bulldogs experience a significant number of injuries to key players, they may struggle to maintain their form.

Internal conflicts: Any team can be affected by internal conflicts or discord, and if the Western Bulldogs experience such issues, it could impact their performance on the field.

Changes in coaching staff: The coaching staff plays a critical role in a team's success, and if the Western Bulldogs experience changes in their coaching staff, it may take time for the players to adjust to new strategies and tactics.

Loss of key players: The Western Bulldogs may struggle if they lose key players to injury or to other teams in the offseason. It can be challenging to replace a star player, and it may take time for the team to find a suitable replacement.

It's worth noting, however, that these are merely speculative reasons and that the Western Bulldogs have a strong team with experienced players and a solid track record. Ultimately, it's impossible to predict with certainty how they will perform in 2023.

FYI - ChatGPT is only up to date until the end of 2021. Can't give you the winner of the FIFA World Cup last year for instance. (Hell, it buggered up a simple Subtraction problem).

Hence why it is free at present. Working on the refinements for live use (and monetisation as well I presume).

PS: Hope the coaching Staff aren't using it for ideas, although I have heard LAde has fitted in beautifully and Bevo is happy!

[FrediKanoute]

On he point of small defenders, I appreciate that Dureya is the only one that rolls off the tongue,but I think you could probably convert McLean, Garcia and possibly Hannan into lock down defenders if push came to shove. All quick, good size and great readers of the play. Wouldn't be instant, but I think you could solve the problem if you needed to.

[dog town]

Out of the players listed as leaving I think we orchestrated 50% of them and from the other 2 only Dunkley was a critical player. If we made a list of players to leave every club since 2015 I am confident we would be better than most teams in terms of quality out the door.

[muzzyahoy]

On Josh Dunkley, his relevance to the team was/is definitely over stated. Effectiveness is true hallmark of any professional sportsman/woman. That's why we pine over players like Bont, Libba, Pendlebury, Robbie Gray, Dusty, etc.

Who cares how much ball, how many tackles, how many marks you get?

When do you get them, where do you get it, what do you do with it?

This, to me, will always be the definition of a quality footballer. I could care less about quantity footballers. You can find them anywhere and everywhere. It's the quality ones we need to nurture and develop.

[hujsh]

On he point of small defenders, I appreciate that Dureya is the only one that rolls off the tongue,but I think you could probably convert McLean, Garcia and possibly Hannan into lock down defenders if push came to shove. All quick, good size and great readers of the play. Wouldn't be instant, but I think you could solve the problem if you needed to.

Arty sounds like he has some potential there and we'll see how Cleary/Gallagher come on this year of course. Could quickly be back to having too many.

[MrMahatma]

I know Dunks was a good player. And he deserved our B&F last year. But I do believe he's easily covered with the improved balance and I massively rate McLean. Hunter (well, the wing position) isn't so easily covered but he hardly played and rarely well when he was in so it's a 0 sum game there.

I'm definitely expecting big things this year but there's also a chance it call fall apart if Jones pings an old-man hammy and Lobb doesn't gel with the team and English doesn't take a reasonably large step fwd in hit outs.

[bornadog]

I know Dunks was a good player. And he deserved our B&F last year. But I do believe he's easily covered with the improved balance and I massively rate McLean. Hunter (well, the wing position) isn't so easily covered but he hardly played and rarely well when he was in so it's a 0 sum game there.

I'm definitely expecting big things this year but there's also a chance it call fall apart if Jones pings an old-man hammy and Lobb doesn't gel with the team and English doesn't take a reasonably large step fwd in hit outs.

I think we will miss Hunter (at his best) more than Dunks

[Grantysghost]

On Josh Dunkley, his relevance to the team was/is definitely over stated. Effectiveness is true hallmark of any professional sportsman/woman. That's why we pine over players like Bont, Libba, Pendlebury, Robbie Gray, Dusty, etc.

Who cares how much ball, how many tackles, how many marks you get?

When do you get them, where do you get it, what do you do with it?

This, to me, will always be the definition of a quality footballer. I could care less about quantity footballers. You can find them anywhere and everywhere. It's the quality ones we need to nurture and develop.

He did win the best and fairest, I mean the coaches are probably a good gauge of effectiveness right?

He will be a huge loss.

That was coming off the back of a significant shoulder injury too, so the professionalism is outstanding.

[Happy Days]

Yeah come on now, Dunkley might be a milquetoast loser but he’s a complete stud and we don’t have anyone close to covering him.

For a team whose biggest failings have come in being unable to stop teams scoring in volume, losing an (and our only tbh) elite two-way mid is potentially devastating. Not to mention his phenomenal offensive contested game and high quality work as a resting forward.

[hujsh]

I think we will miss Hunter (at his best) more than Dunks

There was never a trade Hunter thread

[bornadog]

There was never a trade Hunter thread

Bloody Jeemak missed that one :D

[josie]

I won’t miss either Dunkley or Hunter going for goal. Always had to look the other way. Dunkley improved over the years but was never reliable. I’ve got belief in Maclean, West and Garcia to more than make up for Barbie Ken, and that Scott, Bedendo, Williams and possibly Baker to make up for losing Hunter. I’ll also be watching closely whether Bazlenka’s disposal accuracy improves. If it does and Bont and Macrae play well then we are in for a good year.

I think we could perform really well this year and I’m quite optimistic, however likely a good start will be crucial and first month or so of games are tough. Then if we do well to start year I hope we keep it up as we have a habit of losing against teams we are expected to win or match well against and an inability to consistently string 4+ straight wins together.

[comrade]

We needed to play one less midfielder on balance and Dunks going will hopefully force our hand. We also have a genuine 2nd ruck/forward, plus an intercepting key defender which were 2 gaping holes from a team balance perspective so I’m pretty optimistic that we’ll be more consistent this season than last year (and 2020).

We might not be good enough to really push for a flag - think other sides are stronger overall - but I think we’ll have more pieces in the right places than last year. I’m pretty bullish for 2024/25 as Darcy, Marra, Naughton, English etc develop further together.

[hujsh]

We needed to play one less midfielder on balance and Dunks going will hopefully force our hand. We also have a genuine 2nd ruck/forward, plus an intercepting key defender which were 2 gaping holes from a team balance perspective so I’m pretty optimistic that we’ll be more consistent this season than last year (and 2020).

We might not be good enough to really push for a flag - think other sides are stronger overall - but I think we’ll have more pieces in the right places than last year. I’m pretty bullish for 2024/25 as Darcy, Marra, Naughton, English etc develop further together.

I think we've somehow added 2 to replace him in Daniel and McLean

[comrade]

I think we've somehow added 2 to replace him in Daniel and McLean

You’re probably right but at least those two are versatile enough to move around when required - Daniel is obviously an elite HBF and McLean is capable inside 50. Dunks should never leave the centre and trying to shoe horn forward so much over the last 3 years was silly.

How we line up in the midfield is going to be very interesting this year - I worry for Treloar.

[D Mitchell]

Leaving aside
(a) the paragraph about the culture of the Club. That has to be speculation;
(b) the suggestion that Beveridge might be the problem in players leaving. Dunkley aside, a serious loss but that's life, assuming those named were distractions or bad influences, the Club has been right to move them on;
(c) predictions. Always dangerous before rounds 3 or 4
I agree with most of the article and add that the poor defensive games of the mids last year was only half the story, the forwards were even worse. If the defensive part of the players' game, generally, improve, then, on paper at least, there's reason for optimism for 2023.

[GVGjr]

Leaving aside
(a) the paragraph about the culture of the Club. That has to be speculation;
(b) the suggestion that Beveridge might be the problem in players leaving. Dunkley aside, a serious loss but that's life, assuming those named were distractions or bad influences, the Club has been right to move them on;
(c) predictions. Always dangerous before rounds 3 or 4
I agree with most of the article and add that the poor defensive games of the mids last year was only half the story, the forwards were even worse. If the defensive part of the players' game, generally, improve, then, on paper at least, there's reason for optimism for 2023.

A) The speculation of the culture challenges at the club last year was very strong and it does appear that we addressed it at the end of last season.
B) Players don't appear to be leaving us because of Bevo so from my perspective that is an assumption that might have been over-hyped.

The balance of the article is around the mark.

[Mantis]

You’re probably right but at least those two are versatile enough to move around when required - Daniel is obviously an elite HBF and McLean is capable inside 50. Dunks should never leave the centre and trying to shoe horn forward so much over the last 3 years was silly.

How we line up in the midfield is going to be very interesting this year - I worry for Treloar.

It's a big watch isn't it. We seriously need the pace of Treloar & Smith around the ball as much as possible so how we balance the midfield minutes of the main core (Bont, Libba, Macrae, Smith & Treloar) will be fascinating... would hope we see one of Treloar & Smith in the middle at all times.

[Happy Days]

You’re probably right but at least those two are versatile enough to move around when required - Daniel is obviously an elite HBF and McLean is capable inside 50. Dunks should never leave the centre and trying to shoe horn forward so much over the last 3 years was silly.

How we line up in the midfield is going to be very interesting this year - I worry for Treloar.

I get the worry but he really couldn’t have been more reassuring in that practice match. In choppy conditions he still got 90m onto a lot of possession chains, which is his whole deal at his best.

I’m more worried (for the first half of 2023 anyway) about Barry. His disposal is as unpolished as ever and his pre-season has been every bit as limited. Concerned he’s gonna take a month or two to knock the rust off and given our early draw it’s a luxury we can’t afford.

[MrMahatma]

A) The speculation of the culture challenges at the club last year was very strong and it does appear that we addressed it at the end of last season.
B) Players don't appear to be leaving us because of Bevo so from my perspective that is an assumption that might have been over-hyped.

The balance of the article is around the mark.

What was the speculation? Or was it about Bevo losing it a bit (Morris etc?). Or Dunks didn't think others prepared well enough?

[GVGjr]

What was the speculation? Or was it about Bevo losing it a bit (Morris etc?). Or Dunks didn't think others prepared well enough?

The distractions with Hunter and the playing group was something that kept getting mentioned.

[bornadog]

The distractions with Hunter and the playing group was something that kept getting mentioned.

But that is not a culture issue, that is an issue with personnel.

[GVGjr]

But that is not a culture issue, that is an issue with personnel.

That impacted the culture of the group. There were a few that stuck with Lachie and that created a rift.

[bulldogfan]

I think it’s a load of bullshit seriously the amount of players we signed up last year yes we lost Dunkley and he was a fantastic player but nobody is writing up articles about Fremantle loosing lobb acres logue meek and also Melbourne loosing Jackson and this year probably kozzie it’s a load of bs

[GVGjr]

I think it’s a load of bullshit seriously the amount of players we signed up last year yes we lost Dunkley and he was a fantastic player but nobody is writing up articles about Fremantle loosing lobb acres logue meek and also Melbourne loosing Jackson and this year probably kozzie it’s a load of bs

Players moving around is now just a fact of the AFL so that was not and issue for us.

[mjp]

I think it’s a load of bullshit seriously the amount of players we signed up last year yes we lost Dunkley and he was a fantastic player but nobody is writing up articles about Fremantle loosing lobb acres logue meek and also Melbourne loosing Jackson and this year probably kozzie it’s a load of bs

Ummm - they are over here.

Been a lot of criticism of Freo and how they have gone about it in Perth. I think Freo have tried to 'hold' short-term whilst trying to improve for the long-term (Jackson)...but they have seriously compromised both their best 22 (Acres - better than he's given credit for) and depth (Logue, Tucker, Meek). I think best case for them now is (ladder position) 6-8 - and they can sell that - but if it turns into 10-12, well...it's going to be a hard sell (particularly if West Coast continue to suck).

[Dogs 24/7]

Ummm - they are over here.

Been a lot of criticism of Freo and how they have gone about it in Perth. I think Freo have tried to 'hold' short-term whilst trying to improve for the long-term (Jackson)...but they have seriously compromised both their best 22 (Acres - better than he's given credit for) and depth (Logue, Tucker, Meek). I think best case for them now is (ladder position) 6-8 - and they can sell that - but if it turns into 10-12, well...it's going to be a hard sell (particularly if West Coast continue to suck).

How does Freo explain losing their top goal kicker from last season and a host of good enough players and adding just Jackson back?
You're right if they miss the 8 and the coasters languish in the bottom third the scribes over there will be all over them.

[mjp]

How does Freo explain losing their top goal kicker from last season and a host of good enough players and adding just Jackson back?
You're right if they miss the 8 and the coasters languish in the bottom third the scribes over there will be all over them.

Well - if you recall they held off on the Lobb trade and I swear that was PR not 'real-life'...aka they wanted to be able to 'sell' the supporters that they wanted to keep him but...

The reality is though that Jackson is a Fremantle boy - East Fremantle junior - and it is almost impossible to overstate how much the average Freo supporter wants 'FREMANTLE PEOPLE' playing for the Fremantle Footy Club. So as long as they got Jackson, no-one cared. And yep - I know the clubs greatest players list includes people like Pavlich (SA), Mundy (Vic) etc - but everyone forgets that...it is all Freo all the time with those guys.

So what about Lobb and Logue etc I hear you ask - aren't they WA boys? Well, yep. But they are from the Swan Valley (Swan Districts footy club juniors) and, well - Freo people don't care about Swan Districts. Of course, Michael Walters is from Swan Districts and was holding his fingers in an 'M' sign for 'MIDLAND' after goals in 2022 (not that there were many of them)...I guess most Freo people know 'vaguely' where Midland is (inland suburb, 30 mins from Perth) but most couldn't imagine ever actually GOING there...

It's a strange dynamic over here, what can I tell you. West Coast supporters just want to win-win-win and can't imagine why any player:
a/. Wouldn't want to play for them.
b/. Would ever leave them.

Freo supporters want to win (of course) but they want to do it on THEIR terms. With Freo players/coaches/staff etc. Hence Peter Bell (South Fremantle junior) is an ideal Head of Footy and Longmuir - ex Freo player despite coming from the bush/West Perth zone an ideal coach.

[Mofra]

He's not wrong.

Cultural questions - we've all asked them. Dunks comments - we all wonder what the truth is about the culture and what is 'WRONG' ('cos it often looks like something is wrong). Bevo is a unique talent as a coach but he DOES do some things that drive all of us crazy - when I posted a thread about this with a poll the responses were many and varied. We ARE skinny for small defenders and goodness knows what's gonna happen if Doc is out for an extended time (and he's getting old so that is highly likely). We DO have a tough draw to start the season.

Hell - he could have added in "what are they thinking with that forward line", "Do they have any idea what they will get from Rory Lobb or Liam Jones", "Is Tim English EVER going to deliver on his promise in a game that matters" and "Is there any chance that Alex Keath returns to 2021 form 'cos they darn well need him". And on top of that, he could have added in the David King "They still don't have a true intercept player on their list" angle as well.

Plus, he used the word "Elucidating" - that's a 50-cent word in ANY article.

If you think we will slide, there are a lot of reasons why it could happen...
I'll bite on one point.
Alex Keath had played one good season as a KPD and multiple as an interceptor. The answer may be staring us in the face (and create a second problem!)

[bulldogfan]

I wish somebody could delete this article it’s so negative

[GVGjr]

I wish somebody could delete this article it’s so negative

Don't worry about it as it can create interesting debate.

[Grantysghost]

Yeah come on now, Dunkley might be a milquetoast loser but he’s a complete stud and we don’t have anyone close to covering him.

For a team whose biggest failings have come in being unable to stop teams scoring in volume, losing an (and our only tbh) elite two-way mid is potentially devastating. Not to mention his phenomenal offensive contested game and high quality work as a resting forward.

Yes I had to look up milquetoast. I'm borrowing that one !

[Bulldog Revolution]

Ummm - they are over here.

Been a lot of criticism of Freo and how they have gone about it in Perth. I think Freo have tried to 'hold' short-term whilst trying to improve for the long-term (Jackson)...but they have seriously compromised both their best 22 (Acres - better than he's given credit for) and depth (Logue, Tucker, Meek). I think best case for them now is (ladder position) 6-8 - and they can sell that - but if it turns into 10-12, well...it's going to be a hard sell (particularly if West Coast continue to suck).

Couldnt help but think that this article and post relate strongly to what you are arguing here:

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/fremantle-coachs-big-trade-regret-after-fiveplayer-exodus/news-story/d93a19aa0d8b7da3e48f2f64ef30e0bf

[Mantis]

Couldnt help but think that this article and post relate strongly to what you are arguing here:

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/fremantle-coachs-big-trade-regret-after-fiveplayer-exodus/news-story/d93a19aa0d8b7da3e48f2f64ef30e0bf

Found this part interesting:

Longmuir, however, said he never expected Lobb — the Dockers’ leading goalkicker last year — to stay with Fremantle beyond 2022, despite being contracted until the end of 2023 season.

“We held Rory to a contract last year and he never firmly committed to us as a club, so I don‘t think that (selling a bigger picture) really applies to him,” Longmuir said.

Not sure what Longmuir expects of Lobb when you're actively seeking to trade-in a player in (Jackson) who effectively plays the exact same role??

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I get the worry but he really couldn’t have been more reassuring in that practice match. In choppy conditions he still got 90m onto a lot of possession chains, which is his whole deal at his best.

I’m more worried (for the first half of 2023 anyway) about Barry. His disposal is as unpolished as ever and his pre-season has been every bit as limited. Concerned he’s gonna take a month or two to knock the rust off and given our early draw it’s a luxury we can’t afford.

I get the worry too Happy but it is only anxiety.

[Bulldog Revolution]

AFL captains predictions

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-captains-predictions-carlton-backed-to-break-10year-drought-at-rivals-expense/news-story/698a40f546d5d70212f0ea199817cf5b

[Grantysghost]

AFL captains predictions

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-captains-predictions-carlton-backed-to-break-10year-drought-at-rivals-expense/news-story/698a40f546d5d70212f0ea199817cf5b

Not sure why the narrative is we will be crap.

Interesting.

[hujsh]

Not sure why the narrative is we will be crap.

Interesting.

We looked like pretenders who were lucky to make the 8 (objectively true) last year against Freo. Then on paper we lost Hunter and Dunkley.

AFL players aren't really AFL watchers though so aside from their matchday prep there's a decent chance they don't really think about it any deeper than that. Did they think about Lobb's value as a target inside 50 and as the other ruckman (that tap to Bont for a goal last week was a sight for sore eyes)? Do they know how good Liam Jones is looking? Do they then consider the impact of those players joining vs the loss of Dunkley in position we're stacked in and Hunter who has barely played since 2020? probably not. They probably just see Lobb and Jones as older and maybe worse on paper.

These are things we as supporters look at and think about but I doubt Patrick Dangerfield really bothers himself with outside of his professional commitments.

[Sedat]

I hope history repeats itself but Melbourne went from an incredibly disappointing and underachieving 2020 to a flag in 2021 off the back of a blistering pre-season and a game plan change away from their inside midfield bees to the honeypot. Serious track watchers here and in the media are suggesting we've had a very good pre-season and have implemented game plan changes to maximise our strengths and minimise exposure to our weaknesses. The list balance appears to be better even though we've lost a bonafide stud in Dunkley and an elite runner in Hunter (who was cooked with us last year to be fair). Super early days but Liam Jones is looking an astute pick-up as is Rory Lobb. Even Oskar Baker seems to have impressed as a potential wing replacement for Hunter.

The above is prefaced with the fact that I've watched absolutely no footy since the 2022 PF's (didn't even watch the GF as I was holidaying in Greece. Did it actually happen? Did Selwood and Danger really have their fap-a-thon coronation?)

[Grantysghost]

We looked like pretenders who were lucky to make the 8 (objectively true) last year against Freo. Then on paper we lost Hunter and Dunkley.

AFL players aren't really AFL watchers though so aside from their matchday prep there's a decent chance they don't really think about it any deeper than that. Did they think about Lobb's value as a target inside 50 and as the other ruckman (that tap to Bont for a goal last week was a sight for sore eyes)? Do they know how good Liam Jones is looking? Do they then consider the impact of those players joining vs the loss of Dunkley in position we're stacked in and Hunter who has barely played since 2020? probably not. They probably just see Lobb and Jones as older and maybe worse on paper.

These are things we as supporters look at and think about but I doubt Patrick Dangerfield really bothers himself with outside of his professional commitments.

Yes probably true. The GF* capitulation also, our last two finals have been abysmal.

[bornadog]

Yes probably true. The GF* capitulation also, our last two finals have been abysmal.

On the positive we were way ahead in the last two finals - so got to make sure we keep it rolling and don't stop.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

We looked like pretenders who were lucky to make the 8 (objectively true) last year against Freo. Then on paper we lost Hunter and Dunkley.

AFL players aren't really AFL watchers though so aside from their matchday prep there's a decent chance they don't really think about it any deeper than that. Did they think about Lobb's value as a target inside 50 and as the other ruckman (that tap to Bont for a goal last week was a sight for sore eyes)? Do they know how good Liam Jones is looking? Do they then consider the impact of those players joining vs the loss of Dunkley in position we're stacked in and Hunter who has barely played since 2020? probably not. They probably just see Lobb and Jones as older and maybe worse on paper.

These are things we as supporters look at and think about but I doubt Patrick Dangerfield really bothers himself with outside of his professional commitments.

The recruiting of Lobb Jones and Baker are all positional needs that we have lacked particularly in our key defence area. We should expect improvement in players like Ugle- Hagen Darcy and Scott. Particularly like the move of Daniel into the midfield where his superior foot skills will improve our forward entries. The big query will be our leg speed as apart from Treloar Richards and Dale we are not quick. Feedback would indicate that Luke Beveridge is a lot more relaxed. I sense there will be greater harmony among the playing
group with both Dunkley and Hunter moving on.