Bulldogs Ballarat Practice Match.... Your thoughts.

[Jeanette54]

Your thoughts on the players performance and team progress ?

[Jeanette54]

Liam Jones has already answered any questions regarding whether his time away from football has effected his performance. His total commitment to the contest and defensive skills are very much still there.

I find it fascinating watching the individual duels between our established players, for example Adz vs Bailey Smith, or Tim English vs Rory Lobb. Tim has shown a more aggressive side to his game and is making a physical impact in the ruck contest and following up at ground level.

Josh Bruce has done some good things down back, and Alex Keath is running back into form.

Several players have shown glimpses of good form, but nobody has been a consistent winner throughout the match. Cody Raak and Arthur Jones have made an impact at various times too.

[AutoFill]

Looks like Jones and Bruce are setting themselves up as our 1st round key defenders. Early days though.

[kruder]

Anthony Scott>>>>>>>>>>>> Oskar Baker at this stage for mine.

[josie]

Of the fringe players I think Cleary & Buku & Scott helped their pick me causes.

[chef]

Looks like Jones and Bruce are setting themselves up as our 1st round key defenders. Early days though.

Yeah nah, cant see Bruce starting ahead of Gardner or Keath.

[Testekill]

Cleary, Buku and Scott are the fringe players that stuck their hands up for me. Artie Jones was also pretty good, will be looking forward to him getting an audition in the scratch game next week.

The three towers in Naughton, Lobb and Marra are looking dangerous. Build more chemistry so they stay out of each others way and watch out.

[SonofScray]

I missed the 3rd qtr.

Pleased by a range of performances, I thought the tightness of the contest can be read as promising for where the list is at and still have some concerns about the momentum swings and the role English has when they are happening.

Jones and Lobb looked like they will give us what we are expecting. They are going to be really important.

JUH and Bont played with an air of confidence and physicality that I thought really points to their talent and capacity to absolutely put the team on their backs.

Jones might give us something if he can slide in to VDM slot in the team. Front and square of the big fellas, slick hands down low. Quick release by foot.

[kruder]

Yeah nah, cant see Bruce starting ahead of Gardner or Keath.

The training reports have been spot on, Bruce is scary with the ball in hand its going tot take some time agree.

[jazzadogs]

Didn't watch siren to siren, so probably missed or misinterpreted things, but:

- I thought the Naughton, Lobb, Marra forward combo worked well. Loved seeing Marra higher up the ground and he surprised me with his ability to stay involved and get to contests. I'm not sure how Buku or Darcy fit in that mix.

- Liam Jones was great. No worries about him.

-Williams and Scott clear first choice wings. I had built up some solid expectations of Baker based on pre season reports and he didn't meet them.

- surprised to see Crozier in the AFL defence, but thought he performed well. Richards and Dale were both at their usual level. Didn't notice Duryea, would have been great to have Cody playing to get a feel for where they're at.

- Goater and Poulter both impressed me.

- Sweet has definitely progressed. When English cops an injury, I'll be happy for sweet to cover. Interesting we also used Khamis in the ruck.

[Bullies]

Did Ryan Gardner get injured? Any updates?

[DISHLICKERS]

Regarding Gardner he did get injured but nothing serious it seems as he came back on the ground

[DISHLICKERS]

For those at the game or watched it from the streaming service how did you see English and his ruck/tap work against Sweet and others.

I’m hoping it’s one area he could address in the off season as I think it was an issue season 22

[meenies]

1177

From todays match.
Not sure if I am uploading the image correctly. If only see a thumbnail, click on image to enlarge.

[Hotdog60]

I thought it was nearly 50/50 between Sweet and English and may be give Tim a sight advantage.
Sweet is more your old style ruck which is the problem in todays game.
What I was happy to see was Marra getting more involve and his tank seems to have improved.

[jeemak]

Did Ryan Gardner get injured? Any updates?


Regarding Gardner he did get injured but nothing serious it seems as he came back on the ground

He has been dealing with a hyper-extension issue throughout preseason according to Chris Grant who was interviewed at half time.

Apparently he flares it up from time to time, hopefully he's able to get through the first few rounds and it goes away I guess.

[meenies]

Apart from the obvious players, I thought the following had a great audition for round 1:
- Treloar - I didn't think he would be ready. Very wrong.
- Crozier - kicking out duties with Dale. thought he did a good job throughout. Super sub?
- Darcy - killed them at the start but not sure why off in the second half. Looked to have thin tape around his right knee as they walked off at end of game.
- West - I am a big fan but got caught a few times (because he was going in) and a few bad kicks. I liked him in the centre rotations in the Bont group.
- Khamis - what to do with Baku? Class above in forward line against the B defence. Giving his chances a red hot crack.
- Arthur Jones - really liked his energy. Would like him on if Weightman not ready. If is, then Arty on interchange to rotate with flea.
- McLean - was it just where I was sitting or did Toby have a quite day?

[dog town]

He has been dealing with a hyper-extension issue throughout preseason according to Chris Grant who was interviewed at half time.

Apparently he flares it up from time to time, hopefully he's able to get through the first few rounds and it goes away I guess.
The half time interview was the most insightful thing out of our club since Bevo did a long form interview with Whateley before the 2021 grand final. If they put a replay up make sure you listen as it gives clear view on where we see numerous players.

[dog town]

Apart from the obvious players, I thought the following had a great audition for round 1:
- Treloar - I didn't think he would be ready. Very wrong.
- Crozier - kicking out duties with Dale. thought he did a good job throughout. Super sub?
- Darcy - killed them at the start but not sure why off in the second half. Looked to have thin tape around his right knee as they walked off at end of game.
- West - I am a big fan but got caught a few times (because he was going in) and a few bad kicks. I liked him in the centre rotations in the Bont group.
- Khamis - what to do with Baku? Class above in forward line against the B defence. Giving his chances a red hot crack.
- Arthur Jones - really liked his energy. Would like him on if Weightman not ready. If is, then Arty on interchange to rotate with flea.
- McLean - was it just where I was sitting or did Toby have a quiet day? West gets caught 2-3 times every game. He needs to give the ball first option more. Marra was much better today but he is in the same category, gets himself into trouble nearly every game.

[jeemak]

The half time interview was the most insightful thing out of our club since Bevo did a long form interview with Whateley before the 2021 grand final. If they put a replay up make sure you listen as it gives clear view on where we see numerous players.

I thought it was excellent. The questioning was well informed and led Grant onto different topics that were the actual important ones, rather than the standard SEN breakfast ones.

Really liked his views on the inconsistency across and within games, and how the players were really strong in wanting to address that.

[bornadog]

Thanks for the updates, missed the game today and just got home.

Who was Liam Jones playing on? How did Naughton go - I know he kicked 3

[azabob]

I thought it was excellent. The questioning was well informed and led Grant onto different topics that were the actual important ones, rather than the standard SEN breakfast ones.

Really liked his views on the inconsistency across and within games, and how the players were really strong in wanting to address that.

Duryea also said something very similar during the week of inconsistency across and within games.

[dog town]

Thanks for the updates, missed the game today and just got home.

Who was Liam Jones playing on? How did Naughton go - I know he kicked 3 Jones was on Naughton for a heap of it but he barely lost a 1 on 1. Naughton definitely had a better 2nd half and maybe Jones tired but there was minimal 1 vs 1 wins on Jones.

[bornadog]

Jones was on Naughton for a heap of it but he barely lost a 1 on 1. Naughton definitely had a better 2nd half and maybe Jones tired but there was minimal 1 vs 1 wins on Jones.

Thanks for that.

Just shows Jones has still got it. Naughton hasn't been brilliant this preseason, and I think still finding his way.

[Happy Days]

Thanks for that.

Just shows Jones has still got it. Naughton hasn't been brilliant this preseason, and I think still finding his way.

Naughton was held well early but he really got going in the second half. If anything his marking got better once the rain came.

Jones was good but wow he does some really stupid stuff. Which I already knew but it’s all the more jarring when it’s for your team instead of someone else’s. Running back with the flight to not only spoil his own team mate but allowing Lobb to kick the easiest soccer goal ever in the third quarter was a particularly bad one.

[jeemak]

Naughton was held well early but he really got going in the second half. If anything his marking got better once the rain came.

Jones was good but wow he does some really stupid stuff. Which I already knew but it’s all the more jarring when it’s for your team instead of someone else’s. Running back with the flight to not only spoil his own team mate but allowing Lobb to kick the easiest soccer goal ever in the third quarter was a particularly bad one.

It's interesting, because I agree with you and thought it was unthinking....however, Garcia on the commentary thought it was amazing courage!

[Grantysghost]

https://www.zerohanger.com/bulldogs-trio-overcome-injury-scares-in-testing-intraclub-clash-133431/#




A trio of injury concerns fortunately faded for the Western Bulldogs during their intraclub clash in Ballarat on Saturday morning in what was a strong hitout under testing conditions.

The weather wasn't kind to Luke Beveridge's men, with rain and wind impacting play as a mixture of the Bulldogs' senior players and VFL-listed talent went head-to-head at Mars Stadium.


The Dogs were near full strength for the four-quarter session, with Cody Weightman (adductor), Laitham Vandermeer (leg), Tim O'Brien (hamstring) and Jason Johannisen (calf) among the small list of absent names.

Defender Ryan Gardner looked to be the club's latest pre-season casualty after suffering an arm/elbow injury in a marking contest with Jamarra Ugle-Hagan in the second term, with Gardner assisted off the field in the hands of Bulldogs medical staff.

Gardner remained on the sidelines for a large portion of the quarter before returning to the field with his left arm strapped and showing no signs of agony after grimacing from the incident earlier.

Ruckman Tim English also left local Dogs fans nervous after a nasty collision left him requiring an on-field assessment for a head knock before he quickly returned to action in the middle.


English missed multiple rounds last season due to a head knock, while hamstring and adductor issues have hindered his preparations for 2023.

The Western Australian managed to get through the remainder of the intraclub match unscathed.

Meanwhile, utility Roarke Smith suffered a suspected foot injury during the hit-out, with the 26-year-old sitting out of the intraclub match for some time.

Dogs fans shouldn't be too concerned for the trio of injury scares, while the likes of Weightman and Johannisen look to be in the mix for next week's pre-season game against North Melbourne.

The club confirmed on Friday that Vandermeer will miss the start of the home and away season with a leg fracture, while O'Brien is set to miss the opening month due to ongoing hamstring issues.

The former Hawks will find it hard to break back into Beveridge's side after a promising display from their tall contingent, with Ugle-Hagan, Aaron Naughton, Rory Lobb and Sam Darcy all managing to share the forward 50.



Lobb and English look well-balanced to split the ruck duties this season, even going head-to-head at times, while Darcy was impressive as a forward target.

The father-son selection's versatility is set to buoy Beveridge's key-position plans, with his aerial dominance also looking to match that of Naughton's.

Veteran Josh Bruce resumed his new role in defence, while swingman Buku Khamis had a large say on the scoreboard with strong opening and fourth terms.

Sophomore Arthur Jones showed exciting signs in attack in the absence of Weightman, while Toby McLean looked comfortable in the forward half of the field after playing just four games since the end of the 2020 season.

The Dogs' senior players weren't the only ones to impress in Ballarat, with VFL-listed midfield-forward Luke Goater, the brother of North Melbourne's Josh, impressed with his run and disposal.

Delisted Collingwood wingman Caleb Poulter was also impressive in his role behind the ball, with the former Magpie hoping to redeem himself in 2023 after signing with Footscray.

The Bulldogs will host North Melbourne at Ikon Park next Saturday for their one and only pre-season match before a Round 1 encounter with Melbourne at the MCG on Saturday, March 18.

[Bigdog]

Darcy had tape on his knee all game. I didn’t notice him get a knee knock.

Toby was very quiet.

[dog town]

Naughton was held well early but he really got going in the second half. If anything his marking got better once the rain came.

Jones was good but wow he does some really stupid stuff. Which I already knew but it’s all the more jarring when it’s for your team instead of someone else’s. Running back with the flight to not only spoil his own team mate but allowing Lobb to kick the easiest soccer goal ever in the third quarter was a particularly bad one.

My thoughts on Jones would be that he was nearly flawless to mid Q3 then dropped away. I am very big on defenders not allowing the ball to get goal side and he had that licked today.

[Sam]

Darcy had back tightness.
I thought Cleary played well and looked classy

[bornadog]

Full replay here (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/1275876/ballarat-intra-club-full-match?videoId=1275876&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1677310821001)

[AutoFill]

Thanks for all the contributions. I’m busting to get down to Ikon this weekend. Team selection is going to be heart breaker for some.

[Mofra]

Cleary could well be that one 'bolter' we have every year.
He uses it well, and seems to get his positioning right.

[Happy Days]

Bruce’s second half has ruined my whole weekend. He was looking so good before he actually had to start kicking it less than 40m.

[Happy Days]

Cleary could well be that one 'bolter' we have every year.
He uses it well, and seems to get his positioning right.

That Fritsch match up hypothetical really underscored how much we need a mid sized defender too.

[GVGjr]

Made the trip to Mars stadium.
I thought it was a quality hit out for us. A few players copped some injuries but it was a positive to get players like Baz, Treloar, Jones and Bruce through the game. I thought Cleary, Khamism Scott and Raak showed a bit.

Lets hope that some of the players that missed like Weightman, Hannan and Garcia can play against North.

[dog town]

Bruce’s second half has ruined my whole weekend. He was looking so good before he actually had to start kicking it less than 40m.

He really played the percentages in the first half and only but off little 15 metre kicks. I think the rain rattled him a bit.

[Grantysghost]

Made the trip to Mars stadium.
I thought it was a quality hit out for us. A few players copped some injuries but it was a positive to get players like Baz, Treloar, Jones and Bruce through the game. I thought Cleary, Khamism Scott and Raak showed a bit.

Lets hope that some of the players that missed like Weightman, Hannan and Garcia can play against North.

What’s a Khamism?

It sounds very zen G :)

[Grantysghost]

That Fritsch match up hypothetical really underscored how much we need a mid sized defender too.

Are there many good ones around HD? I'm trying to think of someone who plays that role at another team.
Sinclair (Aints), Maynard (Pies) maybe Stewart (Cats).

I like the look of Cleary. Lets hope he develops into that role.

[The Underdog]

What’s a Khamism?

It sounds very zen G :)

We’re all converting to Khamism. It’s the new way forward after Dunkism failed us.

[The Doctor]

Great to see the big guys play well and some of our prime movers get their hands on the ball in good numbers.

The glaring issue for me is the lack of quality small forwards. I know I sound like a broken record on this but it was so clearly evident throughout the day. None more so when Khamis swooped near the boundary then ran infield a bit to open up the goals. I was waiting for the snap across the body, bread & butter stuff for a small forward, but he booted 40m straight up in the air. Don't mean to sound like I'm picking on him because otherwise he had a fantastic game but it highlights the problem. I see other examples of it time and again.

It was great to see Arty Jones bob up in the forward line and snap an opportunistic goal. I liked the idea of playing him up forward and then on the wing. Don't think he plays round 1 but his rate of improvement is very pleasing and if he keeps it up a debut may not be too far away.

Hopefully Baker has a better game v North if chosen.

Really liked Anthony Scott's game. Have always felt he could be a good player at AFL level if he could get more involved.

The emergence of Khamis up forward could pose a few selection headaches. His aerial game is quite good and he's a nice kick on the set shot usually. If he can improve his ground level game I think he becomes a regular in the senior team.

As mentioned earlier in the thread Luke Goater caught my eye. He demonstrated some sharp skills a few times yesterday. Hopefully he continues to improve his game at Footscray, and become a candidate for the MSD.

[dog town]

Has anyone else noticed our defensive positioning behind the ball? When we press up to defend and the opposition forwards roll up to stand next to us we are standing back shoulder every time. So picture is having a forward 50 stoppage all of our backs behind the ball are standing on the inside and behind.

I watched every slow play, every stoppage yesterday and it was always back shoulder without exception. In the past the forward would be 5-10 metres goal side due to our assertive positioning when defending. Will watch this closely next week against actual opposition, it’s a clear change in philosophy.

[bornadog]

Has anyone else noticed our defensive positioning behind the ball? When we press up to defend and the opposition forwards roll up to stand next to us we are standing back shoulder every time. So picture is having a forward 50 stoppage all of our backs behind the ball are standing on the inside and behind.

I watched every slow play, every stoppage yesterday and it was always back shoulder without exception. In the past the forward would be 5-10 metres goal side due to our assertive positioning when defending. Will watch this closely next week against actual opposition, it’s a clear change in philosophy.

Good pickup

[dog town]

Great to see the big guys play well and some of our prime movers get their hands on the ball in good numbers.

The glaring issue for me is the lack of quality small forwards. I know I sound like a broken record on this but it was so clearly evident throughout the day. None more so when Khamis swooped near the boundary then ran infield a bit to open up the goals. I was waiting for the snap across the body, bread & butter stuff for a small forward, but he booted 40m straight up in the air. Don't mean to sound like I'm picking on him because otherwise he had a fantastic game but it highlights the problem. I see other examples of it time and again.

It was great to see Arty Jones bob up in the forward line and snap an opportunistic goal. I liked the idea of playing him up forward and then on the wing. Don't think he plays round 1 but his rate of improvement is very pleasing and if he keeps it up a debut may not be too far away.

Hopefully Baker has a better game v North if chosen.

Really liked Anthony Scott's game. Have always felt he could be a good player at AFL level if he could get more involved.

The emergence of Khamis up forward could pose a few selection headaches. His aerial game is quite good and he's a nice kick on the set shot usually. If he can improve his ground level game I think he becomes a regular in the senior team.

As mentioned earlier in the thread Luke Goater caught my eye. He demonstrated some sharp skills a few times yesterday. Hopefully he continues to improve his game at Footscray, and become a candidate for the MSD.

Scott has kicked goals from the wing in pretty much every bit of match sim I have seen this summer.

In regards to Goater he has come on really quickly. Will be getting well looked after at Deer Park so hopefully we can keep him playing at Footscray to monitor his progress.

[Happy Days]

Are there many good ones around HD? I'm trying to think of someone who plays that role at another team.
Sinclair (Aints), Maynard (Pies) maybe Stewart (Cats).

I like the look of Cleary. Lets hope he develops into that role.

I would add Sicily, Starcevich, Ridley, Vlastuin, Burton, Rampe to this list off the top of my head. I’m sure there’s a ton more if you go list by list.

Even if there is a lack of true medium defenders, a lot of teams can get by through the versatility of their key defenders, which with all due respect to Gardner, Keath and Jones isn’t really something I think is true of us.

With our current stocks we probably need Cleary or Khamis to come on and fill this role (or hope Buss turns into a superstar).

[bornadog]

Watched the replay and thought the following players stood out:

* Libba - looked fantastic, some great tackling, a couple of goals getting better with age.

* I thought both Jones and Bruce played well in the backline at either end. Bruce was better than I imagined he would be. I haven't seen any of the preseason training runs.

* Naughton dangerous as usual

* Treloar really moved well

* Buku was prominent especially in the first and last

* Scott - I think the wing is his and should play round 1

* Bont, Smith, Macrae all look pretty good.

* Tim looking like he is stepping up

* JUH I thought did well

* others - Richards, Dale, Williams all solid contributors

Players I think should have done more:

* Lobb - didn't really exert himself on the match and should have taken more marks and done better around the ground

* Mclean, West didn't get alot of the ball. West caught holding the ball trying to do too much.

* Duryea not much influence on the game

* I don't think Sweet has progressed much

That is about all I can remember without going thorough every player. I have avoided talking about VFL players.

[Uninformed]

Are there many good ones around HD? I'm trying to think of someone who plays that role at another team.
Sinclair (Aints), Maynard (Pies) maybe Stewart (Cats).

I like the look of Cleary. Lets hope he develops into that role.

The Fritz match-up and Charlie Cameron type match up are the two I would like to see us resolve. Other than Duryea, who still seems capable, not sure who can handle the Camerons of the world.

Fritz is quite a unique player. Cleary seems to have the smarts and marking ability but not sure he has the pace. I have wondered whether Bedendo is a chance? He has pace and marking ability but I don't know about his defensive smarts?

Would be interested in your thoughts.

[Uninformed]

Watched the replay and thought the following players stood out:

* Libba - looked fantastic, some great tackling, a couple of goals getting better with age.

* I thought both Jones and Bruce played well in the backline at either end. Bruce was better than I imagined he would be. I haven't seen any of the preseason training runs.

* Naughton dangerous as usual

* Treloar really moved well

* Buku was prominent especially in the first and last

* Scott - I think the wing is his and should play round 1

* Bont, Smith, Macrae all look pretty good.

* Tim looking like he is stepping up

* JUH I thought did well

* others - Richards, Dale, Williams all solid contributors

Players I think should have done more:

* Lobb - didn't really exert himself on the match and should have taken more marks and done better around the ground

* Mclean, West didn't get alot of the ball. West caught holding the ball trying to do too much.

* Duryea not much influence on the game

* I don't think Sweet has progressed much

That is about all I can remember without going thorough every player. I have avoided talking about VFL players.

That is pretty much how it looked to me. I was especially pleased with Treloar's game. I don't think we saw that level of influence from him last year. He could give us a real lift in the mid-field this year.

[GVGjr]

The Fritz match-up and Charlie Cameron type match up are the two I would like to see us resolve. Other than Duryea, who still seems capable, not sure who can handle the Camerons of the world.

Fritz is quite a unique player. Cleary seems to have the smarts and marking ability but not sure he has the pace. I have wondered whether Bedendo is a chance? He has pace and marking ability but I don't know about his defensive smarts?

Would be interested in your thoughts.
Fritsch is a difficult match-up for us. Both Richards and Dale should be able to match-up on him but we might not want to lose the drive they can provide. It would be a huge task for Cleary to be given that assignment but Bevo might just do it.
What about trying Buku again?

[Mofra]

Fritsch is a difficult match-up for us. Both Richards and Dale should be able to match-up on him but we might not want to lose the drive they can provide. It would be a huge task for Cleary to be given that assignment but Bevo might just do it.
What about trying Buku again?
Or... flip the script?

Fritsch thinks defence is d-bit that surrounds d-yard. Our best ball user from the back half (Dale) goes to him, our midfield slows entries so we minimise one on ones, and Dale gets to walk it out of defence 20+ times per game under less pressure than he's accustomed to?

We have a choice of either minimising his attributes or exploiting his weakness. Why not try and exploit him first?

[1eyedog]

Still not getting the Buku fanfare. He does one or two nice things and is neat but does nothing for large sections of the match. He has to work out how he is going to stay involved.

Last few games were the same, nice lead, nice hands and kicks straight then not much for a quarter and a half and the intra-club hit out didn't tell us much more. Gets on the end of one and one falls in his lap and then not much for long periods of the game.

He's a bit of a one trick pony and I don't think his defensive pressure is at AFL standard. I also think Bevo has no idea what to do with him.

He's a long term prospect but at 23 we need to start seeing more from him.

[Grantysghost]

The Fritz match-up and Charlie Cameron type match up are the two I would like to see us resolve. Other than Duryea, who still seems capable, not sure who can handle the Camerons of the world.

Fritz is quite a unique player. Cleary seems to have the smarts and marking ability but not sure he has the pace. I have wondered whether Bedendo is a chance? He has pace and marking ability but I don't know about his defensive smarts?

Would be interested in your thoughts.

I recall us trying Cordy on him at times, he really is a tricky match up with his ability to find space and protect the front position well. He only needs a few shots to hurt you too.

Too tall for a small and too agile for a big.

Could Liam Jones mark a mid sized forward?

[Grantysghost]

Or... flip the script?

Fritsch thinks defence is d-bit that surrounds d-yard. Our best ball user from the back half (Dale) goes to him, our midfield slows entries so we minimise one on ones, and Dale gets to walk it out of defence 20+ times per game under less pressure than he's accustomed to?


We have a choice of either minimising his attributes or exploiting his weakness. Why not try and exploit him first?

Like it. Guess it’s dependant on the midfield battle, as we saw in the intra club doesn’t matter how good your defenders are if the ball’s flying out of the middle / we aren’t defending the stoppages well it’s almost moot.

[jeemak]

I think Ed needs to step his defencive game up and start taking the likes of Fritsch. He's at the right age and strength to do it.

[1eyedog]

Or... flip the script?

Fritsch thinks defence is d-bit that surrounds d-yard. Our best ball user from the back half (Dale) goes to him, our midfield slows entries so we minimise one on ones, and Dale gets to walk it out of defence 20+ times per game under less pressure than he's accustomed to?

We have a choice of either minimising his attributes or exploiting his weakness. Why not try and exploit him first?

They're the most explosive team out of the middle in the comp and you're relying on our mids to slow entries? We can't be trusted. I would also worry about losing Dale's drive and Richards is a better one on one defender (most of the time) and he's better in the air as well. Dale is too loose.

I don't want that Butthead look alike to have 3 by quarter time because if we don't get it right it could happen.

[Happy Days]

I think Ed needs to step his defencive game up and start taking the likes of Fritsch. He's at the right age and strength to do it.

This is a good shout and probably the right answer. Ed’s sneakily awesome one on one and we know he’s quick enough to run in a straight line with Fritsch.

But I also think the cliff is coming quickly for Duryea and Ed is also the best replacement we have for him.

[Bullies]

Fritsch is a difficult match-up for us. Both Richards and Dale should be able to match-up on him but we might not want to lose the drive they can provide. It would be a huge task for Cleary to be given that assignment but Bevo might just do it.
What about trying Buku again? Buku still has a long way to go particularly down back. He still doesn't have the touch or the football smarts to play a defensive role. He is still learning the game and will be a slow burn before it starts to click. When he played on a decent opponent down back last year he was toweled. They turned him inside out and he had no touch on them. It takes time to know when to go and when not to. Watch Buku closely when he plays down back. His good efforts stand out but one on one he struggles.

[1eyedog]

I agree I don't see him becoming a successful backman at all. High half forward or the Fritsch role for us are where his opportunities are.

[Mofra]

They're the most explosive team out of the middle in the comp and you're relying on our mids to slow entries? We can't be trusted. I would also worry about losing Dale's drive
The whole point of the strategy is to maximise his drive.
Seize the initiative, not cede it.

Our entire whole ground strategy has changed this year going by PS reports.

[1eyedog]

The whole point of the strategy is to maximise his drive.
Seize the initiative, not cede it.

Our entire whole ground strategy has changed this year going by PS reports.

Yeah I get it I'm just not sure Dale has the nous to balance the defence / offence part of it. Dale has been such a strong rebounder for us do you think he has the discipline to lock onto Fritsch when needed? Do you trust our mids enough to break down their play?
It might work but he might equally tear Dale to shreds. There is too much risk for me.

I just think Dale value adds elsewhere and that the Fritsch-type match up suits Richards better. Can your strategy be pasted onto the Richards role? Ed can create a lot of run out of D50 and appears to be a better one v one defender than Dale.

Another problem is Fritsch plays deep alot which would force Dale deep as well and I do like Dale defending higher.

[bornadog]

Great action shot - Jones looking good and has slotted in beautifully
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpxyfQgaMAUWrSX?format=jpg&name=medium

[Bullies]

Yeah I get it I'm just not sure Dale has the nous to balance the defence / offence part of it. Dale has been such a strong rebounder for us do you think he has the discipline to lock onto Fritsch when needed? Do you trust our mids enough to break down their play?
It might work but he might equally tear Dale to shreds. There is too much risk for me.

I just think Dale value adds elsewhere and that the Fritsch-type match up suits Richards better. Can your strategy be pasted onto the Richards role? Ed can create a lot of run out of D50 and appears to be a better one v one defender than Dale.

Another problem is Fritsch plays deep alot which would force Dale deep as well and I do like Dale defending higher. We certainly miss Easton Wood. He would play these defensive type of roles as well as have the ability to attack when needed.

[Mofra]

Yeah I get it I'm just not sure Dale has the nous to balance the defence / offence part of it. Dale has been such a strong rebounder for us do you think he has the discipline to lock onto Fritsch when needed? Do you trust our mids enough to break down their play?
It might work but he might equally tear Dale to shreds. There is too much risk for me.

I just think Dale value adds elsewhere and that the Fritsch-type match up suits Richards better. Can your strategy be pasted onto the Richards role? Ed can create a lot of run out of D50 and appears to be a better one v one defender than Dale.

Another problem is Fritsch plays deep alot which would force Dale deep as well and I do like Dale defending higher.
I guess the idea of using Dale rather than Richards is that Dale uses pure footskills to cut teams up and if a forward is playing a bit loose, that gives Dale less pressure to spot up kicks. Richards runs the ball a little more and probably gets a shorter forward as well.

[Grantysghost]

Great action shot - Jones looking good and has slotted in beautifully
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpxyfQgaMAUWrSX?format=jpg&name=medium

I'm saving my praise for now, early signs are good though.

[1eyedog]

We certainly miss Easton Wood. He would play these defensive type of roles as well as have the ability to attack when needed.

Dale Morris would destroy Fritsch every day of the week

[Mofra]

Dale Morris would destroy Fritsch every day of the week
Shaggy's bastardry would do him in as well.
It does go back to our 'too nice' argument that bobs up every few months on here. I think that's why a few posters here were happy to see us take Charlie Clarke in the draft.

[GVGjr]

Shaggy's bastardry would do him in as well.
It does go back to our 'too nice' argument that bobs up every few months on here. I think that's why a few posters here were happy to see us take Charlie Clarke in the draft.

I know we didn't draft him but Josh Weddle would have been a great match up against Fritsch.
Is it Duryea against Pickett and if so who gets Petracca?

[1eyedog]

Shaggy's bastardry would do him in as well.
It does go back to our 'too nice' argument that bobs up every few months on here. I think that's why a few posters here were happy to see us take Charlie Clarke in the draft.

Shaggy would be perfect. The one redeeming feature of Zaine was his aggression. We definitely miss this sort of player.

[1eyedog]

I'm saving my praise for now, early signs are good though.

I'm not, the Jones boy will be a star. Mark my words.

[azabob]

Great action shot - Jones looking good and has slotted in beautifully
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpxyfQgaMAUWrSX?format=jpg&name=medium

Great mark from our CHF, shame our CHB couldn't quite get to the contest.

Oh wait... my mistake ;)

[Grantysghost]

Do we still all hate the collar? I don't hate it, not sure why it's so big though.

I actually like the away top, think it's quite neat.

[derb]

Interesting year coming up for Khamis.

If he can't nail down a spot in defence I can't see a long term position for him in the side.

He's shown the most promise at senior level as a forward but he'd be competing with JUH for a spot and I don't think he'd win that one.

Other teams would be sniffing around imo.

I don't want to lose him!

What are other's thoughts?

[derb]

This is the year we start moving West and Garcia through the midfield imo.

I don't know how it will work with Bevo throwing CD through there now.

[hujsh]

Interesting year coming up for Khamis.

If he can't nail down a spot in defence I can't see a long term position for him in the side.

He's shown the most promise at senior level as a forward but he'd be competing with JUH for a spot and I don't think he'd win that one.

Other teams would be sniffing around imo.

I don't want to lose him!

What are other's thoughts?

I think his ability to make it as a forward depends entirely on what he can bring at ground level both offensively an defensively. We're set to have 3 tall forwards most of the time with another competent lead/mark forward in Weightman. This is Khamis' strength so he needs to at least be dangerous and capable of crumbing or pushing up the ground Ryan O'Keefe style and not be a defensive liability with his pressure and chasing/tacking.

If he can manage some combination of the above then he can can help even further stretch oppositions defences who should have their hands full with Naughton, Lobb and JUH.

[GVGjr]

This is the year we start moving West and Garcia through the midfield imo.

I don't know how it will work with Bevo throwing CD through there now.

Garcia is being groomed to be Liberatore replacement in the midfield so I do see him getting games this season.
His form has tapered away just a bit in the last month or so which probably rules him out for round one.

West must be close to getting a spot.

[Bulldog Joe]

Interesting year coming up for Khamis.

If he can't nail down a spot in defence I can't see a long term position for him in the side.

He's shown the most promise at senior level as a forward but he'd be competing with JUH for a spot and I don't think he'd win that one.

Other teams would be sniffing around imo.

I don't want to lose him!

What are other's thoughts?

If he can't crack our forward line he will definitely attract interest and we will probably be well advised to consider a trade.

Can't really see him holding a permanent spot with Naughton, Marra plus a resting ruck (Darcy/English) and Weightman all being picked ahead of him. Would also hope we get something from a small forward in Clarke/Jones that would make it difficult for Buku.

I also don't really see him as competitive enough in the backline

Playing him predominately forward at Footscray would likely have him scoring regularly and boost external interest.

[JanLorMill]

We certainly miss Easton Wood. He would play these defensive type of roles as well as have the ability to attack when needed.
2015 Easton Wood not the last few years

[MrMahatma]

Do we still all hate the collar? I don't hate it, not sure why it's so big though.

I actually like the away top, think it's quite neat.

It's ours. I love it. (I do wish we didn't change it each year but that's another story).

Away strip looks sweet and our boys look ripped in it!

[derb]

I think his ability to make it as a forward depends entirely on what he can bring at ground level both offensively an defensively. We're set to have 3 tall forwards most of the time with another competent lead/mark forward in Weightman. This is Khamis' strength so he needs to at least be dangerous and capable of crumbing or pushing up the ground Ryan O'Keefe style and not be a defensive liability with his pressure and chasing/tacking.

If he can manage some combination of the above then he can can help even further stretch oppositions defences who should have their hands full with Naughton, Lobb and JUH.

So pretty much the role we envisaged for Josh Schache? Haha

[hujsh]

So pretty much the role we envisaged for Josh Schache? Haha

...When was Josh ever looking like not being a typical tall defensive liability? Maybe he could do the hit up leads but I don't think ground level agility was really his go.

[dog town]

The half time interview was the most insightful thing out of our club since Bevo did a long form interview with Whateley before the 2021 grand final. If they put a replay up make sure you listen as it gives clear view on where we see numerous players.

The Salty Bulldog Podcast has posted the transcript of this interview on their Twitter page. Sorry not sure how to post it but well worth a read.

[1eyedog]

Garcia is being groomed to be Liberatore replacement in the midfield so I do see him getting games this season.
His form has tapered away just a bit in the last month or so which probably rules him out for round one.

West must be close to getting a spot.

Feels like West is running around it at the moment. He's had an ok preseason but I've only been to 4 or 5 sessions. Looked a bit lost at times in the intra-club I thought.

[Uninformed]

Or... flip the script?

Fritsch thinks defence is d-bit that surrounds d-yard. Our best ball user from the back half (Dale) goes to him, our midfield slows entries so we minimise one on ones, and Dale gets to walk it out of defence 20+ times per game under less pressure than he's accustomed to?



We have a choice of either minimising his attributes or exploiting his weakness. Why not try and exploit him first?

I hadn't picked up that Fritz was so poor defensively. I like the idea of exploiting that, but would want to be confident that Dale could stop him getting it as much as he seems to against us. Do you think Dale has the defensive side strong enough?

[Uninformed]

I recall us trying Cordy on him at times, he really is a tricky match up with his ability to find space and protect the front position well. He only needs a few shots to hurt you too.

Too tall for a small and too agile for a big.

Could Liam Jones mark a mid sized forward?

Jones is very quick. It is an interesting prospect. I think Fritz is far and away their most dangerous forward. Judging from the ferocity of Jones attack on the contest at the scratch match, though, he might accidentally break Fritz in two and end his career?

[Uninformed]

Fritsch is a difficult match-up for us. Both Richards and Dale should be able to match-up on him but we might not want to lose the drive they can provide. It would be a huge task for Cleary to be given that assignment but Bevo might just do it.
What about trying Buku again?

Richards marking ability might make him the best match up and he could probably still run off him.

[Uninformed]

I know we didn't draft him but Josh Weddle would have been a great match up against Fritsch.
Is it Duryea against Pickett and if so who gets Petracca?

Bont played back as a junior? Petracca forward is a scary match up.

[Uninformed]

Garcia is being groomed to be Liberatore replacement in the midfield so I do see him getting games this season.
His form has tapered away just a bit in the last month or so which probably rules him out for round one.

West must be close to getting a spot.

Enjoyed hearing Garcia giving commentary in the third. Particularly like how Libba has taken him under his wing.

No-one has ever, or ever will, come close to Libba for his ability to somehow get the ball cleanly to one of ours when utterly surrounded by a pack of hundreds of the opposition. But if Garcia can pick up even some of Libba's traits he could be the man going forward.

[jeemak]

Shaggy's bastardry would do him in as well.
It does go back to our 'too nice' argument that bobs up every few months on here. I think that's why a few posters here were happy to see us take Charlie Clarke in the draft.

The only goal that would be conceded in any form would be from the kick across goal or diagonally that Shaggy did game in and game out. Otherwise, he'd be perfect.

[jeemak]

Great mark from our CHF, shame our CHB couldn't quite get to the contest.

Oh wait... my mistake ;)

I'll like it Azza.....Keep up the good work mate.

[jeemak]

2015 Easton Wood not the last few years

He was a bit better than given credit for in his last few years. But like most ageing players his bad bits looked really bad and overshadowed most of the good things he did.

[LongWait]

Is West able to cement a spot in the best 23? From what I've seen, he has significant limitations (pace and lack of explosiveness are a serious concern) and his tricks aren't that good. Love his attack on the ball and player but he doesn't have the intangibles that someone like Libba does - that ability to win the footy and get it in congestion to players on the outside. Where does Westy play? For me, he is in that 24th to 30th preferred player range.

[GVGjr]

Is West able to cement a spot in the best 23? From what I've seen, he has significant limitations (pace and lack of explosiveness are a serious concern) and his tricks aren't that good. Love his attack on the ball and player but he doesn't have the intangibles that someone like Libba does - that ability to win the footy and get it in congestion to players on the outside. Where does Westy play? For me, he is in that 24th to 30th preferred player range.

It's a fair call. Like you I'm not sure he is best 22 just yet but he is right around the mark. Weightman and McLean will be locks for 2 of the smaller forward spots and I suspect that if JJ is ready to go he could be the third option. JJ could also be an option to play elsewhere. Bailey Smith will play HF as well.

[Sedat]

Is West able to cement a spot in the best 23? From what I've seen, he has significant limitations (pace and lack of explosiveness are a serious concern) and his tricks aren't that good. Love his attack on the ball and player but he doesn't have the intangibles that someone like Libba does - that ability to win the footy and get it in congestion to players on the outside. Where does Westy play? For me, he is in that 24th to 30th preferred player range.
Libba is low-key also one of the best decison-makers and ball users by foot and hand in the entire competition. He really is an amazing footballer who is way undersold by the wider football community.

[SquirrelGrip]

The Fritz match-up and Charlie Cameron type match up are the two I would like to see us resolve. Other than Duryea, who still seems capable, not sure who can handle the Camerons of the world.

Fritz is quite a unique player. Cleary seems to have the smarts and marking ability but not sure he has the pace. I have wondered whether Bedendo is a chance? He has pace and marking ability but I don't know about his defensive smarts?

Would be interested in your thoughts.

I would very much like to see Steven Kretiuk or Danny Southern on Fritsch.

[bornadog]

Is West able to cement a spot in the best 23? From what I've seen, he has significant limitations (pace and lack of explosiveness are a serious concern) and his tricks aren't that good. Love his attack on the ball and player but he doesn't have the intangibles that someone like Libba does - that ability to win the footy and get it in congestion to players on the outside. Where does Westy play? For me, he is in that 24th to 30th preferred player range.

I agree with you, I have long held the belief that he will struggle to be in our best 22.

[Bulldog Joe]

I would very much like to see Steven Kretiuk or Danny Southern on Fritsch.

Kretiuk would have been ideal on Fritsch.
Match everything and better at most.

[Curly5]

Darcy had tape on his knee all game. I didn’t notice him get a knee knock.

Toby was very quiet.

Maybe the knee that was infected earlier in the year and still needs to be protected.

[Curly5]

Do we still all hate the collar? I don't hate it, not sure why it's so big though.

I actually like the away top, think it's quite neat.

I've always liked the white strip. It's been lucky for us, on the whole.

[dog town]

I didn’t think McLean was as quiet as some are suggesting. Certainly didn’t have the impact he did in earlier matches but he didn’t plsy inside at all so they were different roles.

First half he was playing as our main small forward with the A forwards and he did pretty well in that role. In the second half we played him wing which I would suggest was to give him some flexibility for the log jam of positions we will see in 2 weeks. Personally I think he has out performed West inside in earlier matches so was stiff to be pushed forward.

[The Doctor]

I didn’t think McLean was as quiet as some are suggesting. Certainly didn’t have the impact he did in earlier matches but he didn’t plsy inside at all so they were different roles.

First half he was playing as our main small forward with the A forwards and he did pretty well in that role. In the second half we played him wing which I would suggest was to give him some flexibility for the log jam of positions we will see in 2 weeks. Personally I think he has out performed West inside in earlier matches so was stiff to be pushed forward.

Weightman aside, I think McLean is perhaps our next best small forward option. He has better goal instincts than the many others we have tried in that role in recent times. So I'm glad to see him given a run up there given the dearth of options.

[mjp]

Weightman aside, I think McLean is perhaps our next best small forward option. He has better goal instincts than the many others we have tried in that role in recent times. So I'm glad to see him given a run up there given the dearth of options.

Isn't this part of the problem with McLean Doc? He's a 2nd tier inside mid, a 2nd tier small forward...

I think he's in the 22 but his position is always going to be vulnerable.

[GVGjr]

Isn't this part of the problem with McLean Doc? He's a 2nd tier inside mid, a 2nd tier small forward...

I think he's in the 22 but his position is always going to be vulnerable.

We've twice tinkered with 4 talls up forward during the preseason and I wonder if it's something to do that we don't believe we have the right mix of smaller players to take advantage of any marks spilling to the ground?
The quick transition out of the back line if we don't mark it will be a problem that will require some countering.

[mjp]

The quick transition out of the back line if we don't mark it will be a problem that will require some countering.

We have a collection of small-to-mid sizers who are 'almost' AFL players.

Garcia. McNeill. West. Vandermeer. They are all trying to play that role (small, crumbing forward). Then we have Jones (Arthur version) who was always a mid at underage level but some want to shoehorn in there...

We have (of course) Weightman - who is going well but wants to hit up/take marks AND Clarke who is a high-pick but can't get on the track...so it isn't like we haven't 'TRIED' to address it.

On top of all that, our forward selection will always be compromised as we will be jamming a mid down there because even with the Dunkley exit we are still heavily weighted towards that position..

[Matjoh]

Likes
Jones and Bruce. Bruce was better than I thought he would be, Jones much more so
The other jones, will play games this year, might sneak into game 1 in Weightmans absence if he excells v north.

Bont, Smith, Macrae Libba all look pretty good - as usual.

Treloar moved well - I was initially doubting his readiness

Keath moved well looks fit and quick
Crozier back on track
Scott definite winger/HF
Poulter, especially his first half - could be a mid season selection



Dis likes
Lobb - didn't exert himself - should have taken more marks and done more around the ground

According to half time chat "Bevo said that you spent a lot of time on forward entry this summer" My observation of the game didn't show any improvement at all!


Did enough
Mclean enough to play game 1
JUH as above but still gets cought trying to baulk
Khamis hot and cold in spurts might sneak a spot

Naughton hot and cold but I think he's cruising.
Sweet did ok by me but could have done more -[improving?!]

[bornadog]

Ten minutes of highlights from Al


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTxqVBEFXkw&t=46s

[GVGjr]

We have a collection of small-to-mid sizers who are 'almost' AFL players.

Garcia. McNeill. West. Vandermeer. They are all trying to play that role (small, crumbing forward). Then we have Jones (Arthur version) who was always a mid at underage level but some want to shoehorn in there...

We have (of course) Weightman - who is going well but wants to hit up/take marks AND Clarke who is a high-pick but can't get on the track...so it isn't like we haven't 'TRIED' to address it.

On top of all that, our forward selection will always be compromised as we will be jamming a mid down there because even with the Dunkley exit we are still heavily weighted towards that position..

We have certainly invested a fair bit on trying to land a couple of genuine small forwards and if the rumors were correct even drafting Weightman was after a significant interested in Kossie Pickett.
I know Garcia believed he was brought in to be a high half forward but now seems to be an understudy to Liberatore.
Vandermeer looked like he might have been in the mix for a role in the back line.
This is a big season for West and if he hopes to make it as a half forward who takes some turns in the midfield then he needs to grasp his chances now. McNeil needs to hit the scoreboard when he get his chances and not miss easy goals. As GG would attest his pressure acts would be good for us.

And just to complicate things a bit further it appears we want Weightman to have some runs in the middle which I think is a good move and JJ was used on a wing and back in defence in a couple of intra club games.

If we can get Clarke back to full training he could be a nice addition later in the season.

[SonofScray]

Is West able to cement a spot in the best 23? From what I've seen, he has significant limitations (pace and lack of explosiveness are a serious concern) and his tricks aren't that good. Love his attack on the ball and player but he doesn't have the intangibles that someone like Libba does - that ability to win the footy and get it in congestion to players on the outside. Where does Westy play? For me, he is in that 24th to 30th preferred player range.

I think he can and will find himself in the squad and getting decent midfield minutes this season. I can see him playing forward at the feet of the big fellas to add some grunt at ground level and filling some of the gap that Dunkley has left.

Would like to see him dish the footy quickly, rather than take everyone on. If he can play within some of his limitations, we’ll see his best.

[Bullies]

I think he can and will find himself in the squad and getting decent midfield minutes this season. I can see him playing forward at the feet of the big fellas to add some grunt at ground level and filling some of the gap that Dunkley has left.

Would like to see him dish the footy quickly, rather than take everyone on. If he can play within some of his limitations, we’ll see his best. I think West will be fine. He has been learning to play different positions. It wouldn't surprise if he ends up being a Sam Mitchell type. He knows where the ball is going to go and reads the play so well. Once he adjusts to the pace and gains confidence he will find he has more time and won't get caught as much.

[FrediKanoute]

I think West will be fine. He has been learning to play different positions. It wouldn't surprise if he ends up being a Sam Mitchell type. He knows where the ball is going to go and reads the play so well. Once he adjusts to the pace and gains confidence he will find he has more time and won't get caught as much.

That was my take too. To get caught with the ball you have to find it and a couple of call's were red hot. If I had a concern is that he got burnt by LIbba in the 2nd and didn't adjust his game quickly enough to counter/smother/contain Libba's centre square dominance. I see him as more of a Libba replacement than Garcia, though both have really good attributes.

[Mantis]

I think West will be fine. He has been learning to play different positions. It wouldn't surprise if he ends up being a Sam Mitchell type. He knows where the ball is going to go and reads the play so well. Once he adjusts to the pace and gains confidence he will find he has more time and won't get caught as much.

Rhylee is going into this 5th season…. At what point does he make the adjustment?

[The Doctor]

We have certainly invested a fair bit on trying to land a couple of genuine small forwards and if the rumors were correct even drafting Weightman was after a significant interested in Kossie Pickett.


Have we? I can't agree with that.

Weightman and Clarke (unproven) yes, but thats it. How long since the previous specialist small forward who was any good was drafted to our club? Dickson?

All these other small forwards we have shoe horned into our forward line in recent years are not specialist forwards. They were drafted as midfielders or half backs. I speak of McNeil, West, Vandermeer, McComb, JJ, Garcia et al. They have become hybrid type players because they are not getting selected in their preferred position. They have therefore been asked to fill the void our lack of small forward recruiting has created.

Small forwards, like ruckmen, is a highly specialised position. We should be focussing on this a lot more than we do in our list management. We could easily replace 1 or 2 of the fringe small midfielders on our list to bolster our small forward attack force.

I'll have more to say on this and the Nick Watson bandwagon in the 2023 List Management thread as the year goes on.

[azabob]

I'll like it Azza.....Keep up the good work mate.

Thanks jee. The encouragement award was my bread and butter in junior footy.

[meenies]

Rhylee is going into this 5th season…. At what point does he make the adjustment?

When he get's regular games and more mid-field time this will improve. Just hasn't had enough decent opportunities yet.

[bornadog]

When he get's regular games and more mid-field time this will improve. Just hasn't had enough decent opportunities yet.

He will be 23 this year. If you are good at what you do you get more game time.

[Pedro Sanchez]

It's a fair call. Like you I'm not sure he is best 22 just yet but he is right around the mark. Weightman and McLean will be locks for 2 of the smaller forward spots and I suspect that if JJ is ready to go he could be the third option. JJ could also be an option to play elsewhere. Bailey Smith will play HF as well.

Last season when we played the Eagles in a night game over here and won by 950 points or thereabouts, I watched West closely. And I was really impressed. His low centre of gravity he put to great use to out body McGovern in a marking contest, his attack in the packs and at the oppo bodies was fierce to see live. Sure he's still rough in some areas, and can try and do to much at times, but he showed real signs of being a smart, hard footballer. Likely never to be our best, but should carve an important role as an inside rover.

[Dogs 24/7]

Rhylee is going into this 5th season…. At what point does he make the adjustment?

This year is just about it for West and he cant just play 10 bits of games.

[FrediKanoute]

Rhylee is going into this 5th season…. At what point does he make the adjustment?

Think that's a bit harsh. Yes 5th season, but really in terms of playing in the middle its season 1. He has the tools to be a quality inside mid. Key is learning to move his arms into positions when tackled so he can still release the ball. He is a kick orientated player. He woudl do well to look at LIbba and see how he transformed into being a quick hands player.

[FrediKanoute]

He will be 23 this year. If you are good at what you do you get more game time.

Not entirely true....if you are good at what you do and there are opportunities available then you get more game time. Dunks going has created an opportunity.

[soupman]

Have we? I can't agree with that.

Weightman and Clarke (unproven) yes, but thats it. How long since the previous specialist small forward who was any good was drafted to our club? Dickson?

All these other small forwards we have shoe horned into our forward line in recent years are not specialist forwards. They were drafted as midfielders or half backs. I speak of McNeil, West, Vandermeer, McComb, JJ, Garcia et al. They have become hybrid type players because they are not getting selected in their preferred position. They have therefore been asked to fill the void our lack of small forward recruiting has created.

Small forwards, like ruckmen, is a highly specialised position. We should be focussing on this a lot more than we do in our list management. We could easily replace 1 or 2 of the fringe small midfielders on our list to bolster our small forward attack force.

I'll have more to say on this and the Nick Watson bandwagon in the 2023 List Management thread as the year goes on.

I very much agree with this. Aside from the mentioned Weightman and Clarke, we haven't drafted small forwards, and instead have drafted undersized mids and tried to make them work as small forwards. In many aspects they have, certainly from a pressure and ability to cover the ground perspective they have, but none are naturally dangerous at ground level as crumbers like Charlie Cameron, Jack Ginnivan, Anthony McDonald Tipungwuti, Lachie Schultz, Tyson Stengle, Brad Close, Dylan Moore, Luke Breust or Tom Papley.

I mention the above players because they are all products of the rookie system, showing that it can be addressed at relatively minimal cost. There were probably another 6 or so that were late picks, so there is probably one to two good players of this type getting picked up every single year past pick 60. We never buy a lottery ticket though.

[Grantysghost]

He will be 23 this year. If you are good at what you do you get more game time.

Last year was clearly his breakout season, he just ran out of steam. I'm not surprised to see him really double down on his fitness in the off season as it was likely identified as a reason for his late season fade.

I have no negativity in terms of his future, he's shown he has some X factor and smarts that not many have; couple that with his improved fitness base I expect a very big season.

[Mofra]

Rhylee is going into this 5th season…. At what point does he make the adjustment?
Easton Wood got 7 years before he 'made it'
Perhaps if their training standards are high enough players just get more chances?

[Mantis]

Easton Wood got 7 years before he 'made it'
Perhaps if their training standards are high enough players just get more chances?

Even coming from a different pathway Easton played >10 games in years 2, 3 & 4 with us... and in a pretty strong team.

Rhylee played 14 games last year, but it was <5 in years 2 & 3.

I don't feel the comparison is valid.

[hujsh]

Even coming from a different pathway Easton played >10 games in years 2, 3 & 4 with us... and in a pretty strong team.

Rhylee played 14 games last year, but it was <5 in years 2 & 3.

I don't feel the comparison is valid.

Easton could clearly play but in a different role to what he brokeout in. Mentioned on the DannyBoyd podcast he was only really being taught to play as a negating defender initially until Bevo. Injuries seemed to be the main thing keeping him out of the team.

[azabob]

Last year was clearly his breakout season, he just ran out of steam. I'm not surprised to see him really double down on his fitness in the off season as it was likely identified as a reason for his late season fade.

I have no negativity in terms of his future, he's shown he has some X factor and smarts that not many have; couple that with his improved fitness base I expect a very big season.

What x-factor have you seen in West?

[Grantysghost]

What x-factor have you seen in West?

Vision, he can spot passes like I've only seen Libba do in the current squad.

[hujsh]

Vision, he can spot passes like I've only seen Libba do in the current squad.

I'm a fan of his strength. He has created opportunities tearing a ball from someone's arms rather than wait for the ball up

[Grantysghost]

I'm a fan of his strength. He has created opportunities tearing a ball from someone's arms rather than wait for the ball up

Agree he really is a ball of muscle. He has a lot of Clay Smith likeness for me.

[1eyedog]

Agreed. He has 'something' and needs more time.

[1eyedog]

Have we? I can't agree with that.

Weightman and Clarke (unproven) yes, but thats it. How long since the previous specialist small forward who was any good was drafted to our club? Dickson?

All these other small forwards we have shoe horned into our forward line in recent years are not specialist forwards. They were drafted as midfielders or half backs. I speak of McNeil, West, Vandermeer, McComb, JJ, Garcia et al. They have become hybrid type players because they are not getting selected in their preferred position. They have therefore been asked to fill the void our lack of small forward recruiting has created.

Small forwards, like ruckmen, is a highly specialised position. We should be focussing on this a lot more than we do in our list management. We could easily replace 1 or 2 of the fringe small midfielders on our list to bolster our small forward attack force.

I'll have more to say on this and the Nick Watson bandwagon in the 2023 List Management thread as the year goes on.

Great post and agreed we haven't targeted specialist small forwards in like forever yet seem happy to extend olive branches to the McCombs et al. all the way back to the Hayes selections.

We've invested nothing in the small forward space over an extended period of time.

[1eyedog]

Easton Wood got 7 years before he 'made it'
Perhaps if their training standards are high enough players just get more chances?

Easton was injured for 5 years we only got to 'see' him in year 6.

I have no idea if West will make it and I'm not sure anyone at the club is either.

[GVGjr]

Great post and agreed we haven't targeted specialist small forwards in like forever yet seem happy to extend olive branches to the McCombs et al. all the way back to the Hayes selections.

We've invested nothing in the small forward space over an extended period of time.

I agree we haven't gone well in our endeavors but we have drafted and traded for Gowers, Lloyd, Cavarra, McNeil, Weightman and Garcia plus we tried to convert Vandermeer and West into small pressure type forwards. We have also moved JJ there.
I think we've tried to do it on the cheap rather than bite the bullet.

[JanLorMill]

I agree we haven't gone well in our endeavors but we have drafted and traded for Gowers, Lloyd, Cavarra, McNeil, Weightman and Garcia plus we tried to convert Vandermeer and West into small pressure type forwards. We have also moved JJ there.
I think we've tried to do it on the cheap rather than bite the bullet.
Haven't there been number of good small forwards that have gone cheap? Papley Cameron AMTW in rookie drafts? Maybe we just pick the wrong ones?

[hujsh]

Haven't there been number of good small forwards that have gone cheap? Papley Cameron AMTW in rookie drafts? Maybe we just pick the wrong ones?

We tend not to pick them to get wrong

[Jasper]

I agree we haven't gone well in our endeavors but we have drafted and traded for Gowers, Lloyd, Cavarra, McNeil, Weightman and Garcia plus we tried to convert Vandermeer and West into small pressure type forwards. We have also moved JJ there.
I think we've tried to do it on the cheap rather than bite the bullet.

And Weightman isnt a legit small forward if you expect them to be more crumbing focused. Is this a case where the Bevo versatile mantra works against us?

[Bullies]

Rhylee is going into this 5th season…. At what point does he make the adjustment? I think you will find guys like Sam Mitchell/Greg Williams who needed to adjust their games due to their lack of pace took about 5 - 6 seasons. West is a similar type to those two. They all dominated junior footy but just took time to adjust.

[GVGjr]

And Weightman isnt a legit small forward if you expect them to be more crumbing focused. Is this a case where the Bevo versatile mantra works against us?

There is some merit in that. It's great having versatile players but you do need specialists as well. We appear to be preferring hybrid types.

[Mantis]

I think you will find guys like Sam Mitchell/Greg Williams who needed to adjust their games due to their lack of pace took about 5 - 6 seasons. West is a similar type to those two. They all dominated junior footy but just took time to adjust.

I'm not sure I will.

Sam Mitchell was drafted in 2001, In 2002 he played the 1st 1/2 of the year in the VFL and scored 10 BOG's from 11 games to win the Liston Trophy. He played 20 games+ in years 2 & 3 and after a few injuries in year 4 played 22 games in season 5 and averaged 26 touches per game.

Whilst he started playing VFL when he was more mature (debuted when 21) Greg Williams in his 2nd season averaged 30.7 touches per game and came equal 4th in the Brownlow. He won the Brownlow in his 3rd season.

[1eyedog]

And Weightman isnt a legit small forward if you expect them to be more crumbing focused. Is this a case where the Bevo versatile mantra works against us?

Neither are / were Vandermeer, Gowers, Lloyd or McNeil they're all hybrids / mediums. Cavarra was maybe but not a great one. We've put zero energy and resources into a good or promising small crumber and that's what we've desperately lacked. All our energy in this space has gone into hybrid-mid / flankers who can cover ground ok and follow a 'defensive pressure' directive. That's a defensive small forward which is not what I'm talking about.

There's been no-one at this club since Judas (does Aker count?), who can do all the above yet crumb so effectively and efficiently the opposition is anxious everytime it hits the ground around them. It seems every other club has had one except us and with the quality of the tall timber we have up front now we need one more than ever.

Our strategy under Bevo has been If we don't mark it and it hits the ground let's hope our hybrids don't let it out too easily and it will be the same this season.

[Bullies]

I'm not sure I will.

Sam Mitchell was drafted in 2001, In 2002 he played the 1st 1/2 of the year in the VFL and scored 10 BOG's from 11 games to win the Liston Trophy. He played 20 games+ in years 2 & 3 and after a few injuries in year 4 played 22 games in season 5 and averaged 26 touches per game.

Whilst he started playing VFL when he was more mature (debuted when 21) Greg Williams in his 2nd season averaged 30.7 touches per game and came equal 4th in the Brownlow. He won the Brownlow in his 3rd season. What I was more referring to was that they had been in the system a number of years before they were drafted at 21 and it can turn quickly if they have football smarts despite people saying they are to slow.

[bornadog]

Neither are / were Vandermeer, Gowers, Lloyd or McNeil they're all hybrids / mediums. Cavarra was maybe but not a great one. We've put zero energy and resources into a good or promising small crumber and that's what we've desperately lacked. All our energy in this space has gone into hybrid-mid / flankers who can cover ground ok and follow a 'defensive pressure' directive. That's a defensive small forward which is not what I'm talking about.

There's been no-one at this club since Judas (does Aker count?), who can do all the above yet crumb so effectively and efficiently the opposition is anxious everytime it hits the ground around them. It seems every other club has had one except us and with the quality of the tall timber we have up front now we need one more than ever.

Our strategy under Bevo has been If we don't mark it and it hits the ground let's hope our hybrids don't let it out too easily and it will be the same this season.

Even though we haven't had a genuine small forward under Bevo, we have been one of the highest scoring teams. Other than 2017/18, we have been in the top 5 each year ranking from 2nd to 5th most scores.

This year is the year we want a crumber with all the tall timber around.

[jeemak]

Even though we haven't had a genuine small forward under Bevo, we have been one of the highest scoring teams. Other than 2017/18, we have been in the top 5 each year ranking from 2nd to 5th most scores.

This year is the year we want a crumber with all the tall timber around.

is the scoring a function of time in fifty/ opportunities? Would we have been more efficient with capable crumbing smalls? Now I get you can only score so much in a game, and not sure what the tangible difference a top rated crumbing small would have done to the number.

[bornadog]

is the scoring a function of time in fifty/ opportunities? Would we have been more efficient with capable crumbing smalls? Now I get you can only score so much in a game, and not sure what the tangible difference a top rated crumbing small would have done to the number.

I agree we need a small crumbing forward

[jeemak]

I agree we need a small crumbing forward

Oh that is nasty!

I wasn't saying that at all! In fact, like in many of my posts I wasn't saying anything at all!