Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions

[jeemak]

Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/former-bulldog-liam-picken-launches-legal-action-against-afl-club-doctors-after-concussions-20230309-p5cqtw.html?fbclid=IwAR3Xv2GY_YiYsEJUdMkhd_nqEz_x92Ef2jVxxqG 889_u3dpuSH42tBdGXe8


Premiership player Liam Picken has launched civil action against the AFL, Western Bulldogs and club doctors after he says he was returned to the field despite suffering on-field concussions.

Lawyers for Picken claim throughout his time with the Bulldogs, the 36-year-old repeatedly returned irregular cognitive test results, but was never made aware of these or sent for specialist management.

[jeemak]

This isn't going to be pretty given what's been alleged by the Picken camp.

[josie]

Terrible Liam is still suffering serious symptoms. Still young and with a lovely young family. Some serious allegations for our club and our esteemed club doctors.

[AshMac]

This isn't going to be pretty given what's been alleged by the Picken camp.

Agree. Could have seen it coming from a mile away tbh. I reckon he has a case to be paid attention to - I’m not a lawyer.

[GVGjr]

It's going to be a huge issue for the AFL and it's not right that someone like Picken is still feeling the effects.

[bulldogtragic]

Obvious statement, if he has a case then he deserves fair compensation.

You’d like to think the club would not have done the specific things alleged. I guess we will have our right of reply and see where it lands.

More importantly, got to just feel for the human cost Liam is paying for giving us years of amazing memories.

[GVGjr]

Obvious statement, if he has a case then he deserves fair compensation.

You’d like to think the club would not have done the specific things alleged. I guess we will have our right of reply and see where it lands.

More importantly, got to just feel for the human cost Liam is paying for giving us years of amazing memories.

Spot on, we've come a long way with concussion protocols in the last few years but there would be a number of players with ongoing symptoms and challenges. I'm not sure how this gets resolved but I hope the AFL has some plans on how to look after the players.

[bulldogtragic]

Spot on, we've come a long way with concussion protocols in the last few years but there would be a number of players with ongoing symptoms and challenges. I'm not sure how this gets resolved but I hope the AFL has some plans on how to look after the players.

I suspect the answer is a huge amount of money. How much the AFEL end up on the hook for could be interesting. A club under a series of lawsuits might find their viability threatened.

It’s a tough spot for the club. If the club feels they’ve done nothing wrong they need to fight this to the end as hard as they can. Which is hard for everyone when it’s a club hero especially. For fans, it’s like watching your parents go through a horrible divorce.

[GVGjr]

I suspect the answer is a huge amount of money. How much the AFEL end up on the hook for could be interesting. A club under a series of lawsuits might find their viability threatened.

It’s a tough spot for the club. If the club feels they’ve done nothing wrong they need to fight this to the end as hard as they can. Which is hard for everyone when it’s a club hero especially. For fans, it’s like watching your parents go through a horrible divorce.

You would hope that the medico's worked within the guidelines at the time and that we have documented records of our decisions.
Player welfare is the priority.

[G-Mo77]

You would hope that the medico's worked within the guidelines at the time and that we have documented records of our decisions.
Player welfare is the priority.

That's the issue. What were the guidelines? It only seems like a few years ago it was still just walk it off and go back out on the ground. I can guarantee there would be countless doctors overruled because a player just wants to get back out there. Picken would have been one of those. If a Dr says no and you say yes why is it the Docs fault?

[Grantysghost]

Liam deserves compensation IF it was deemed the rules at the time weren't adhered to or appropriate.

However, there has to be some personal responsibility; he was hardly a safety first kind of player.

I get we laud that in our game and all - sheesh though he was a mad man.

Tough situation for fans. Feel for him.

Marcus Adams in a similar situation I read.

[Grantysghost]

That's the issue. What were the guidelines? It only seems like a few years ago it was still just walk it off and go back out on the ground. I can guarantee there would be countless doctors overruled because a player just wants to get back out there. Picken would have been one of those. If a Dr says no and you say yes why is it the Docs fault?

It's a good point, I played (very badly) in the 90s and copped a few concussions (yes, yes it explains a few things), we'd just sit on the bench.
I was seeing double one day, played out the game then went to the hospital. Played better ;)

[angelopetraglia]

This is about one thing, money. This is Pandora's box for the AFL. It has the potential to bring the game to its knees.

[G-Mo77]

It's a good point, I played (very badly) in the 90s and copped a few concussions (yes, yes it explains a few things), we'd just sit on the bench.
I was seeing double one day, played out the game then went to the hospital. Played better ;)

I took a few as well, only once I stopped playing and it was because my vision was messed up. Mind you we didn't really have Doctors in the bush league. They'd just say you probably shouldn't go back on and everyone would say I'm fine and be back out there 5 - 10 minutes later.

I'm not sure where I sit with this to be honest. If Liam didn't play the way he did he wouldn't have been an AFL footballer, now he's suing them and the club he played for because of the way he played?

[hujsh]

I hope the club did the right things by Liam but if not he deserves compensation. Huge precedent for the future if the case goes ahead.

[angelopetraglia]

I took a few as well, only once I stopped playing and it was because my vision was messed up. Mind you we didn't really have Doctors in the bush league. They'd just say you probably shouldn't go back on and everyone would say I'm fine and be back out there 5 - 10 minutes later.

I'm not sure where I sit with this to be honest. If Liam didn't play the way he did he wouldn't have been an AFL footballer, now he's suing them and the club he played for because of the way he played?

Also, the first allegation dates back to 2014. A lot has changed since that period of time in regards to knowledge around concussion and general opinion. There wasn't even a concussion rule in regards to not being allowed to come back on or having to miss a week in 2014.

[hujsh]

I took a few as well, only once I stopped playing and it was because my vision was messed up. Mind you we didn't really have Doctors in the bush league. They'd just say you probably shouldn't go back on and everyone would say I'm fine and be back out there 5 - 10 minutes later.

I'm not sure where I sit with this to be honest. If Liam didn't play the way he did he wouldn't have been an AFL footballer, now he's suing them and the club he played for because of the way he played?

It reads to me more that he feels they didn't give him the proper information to decide if he should be playing at all. So not that he was getting concussed but that we were telling him he was fine to continue to play/train without giving him all the information, sending him to specialists or informing him he performed below average on 'baseline' tests.

I have no idea on any of the above but I don't think it's as simple as him being upset he got concussed at all.

[hujsh]

Also, the first allegation dates back to 2014. A lot has changed since that period of time in regards to knowledge around concussion and general opinion. There wasn't even a concussion rule in regards to not being allowed to come back on or having to miss a week in 2014.
And that will probably be a pretty hard point for Picken's team to overcome. I bet there are plenty of 'studies' the AFL can pull from from the US meant to show concussion isn't a big deal or it's all a bit unknown to cast doubt on what the duty of care was. There were certainly no proper AFL guidelines.

[Grantysghost]

It reads to me more that he feels they didn't give him the proper information to decide if he should be playing at all. So not that he was getting concussed but that we were telling him he was fine to continue to play/train without giving him all the information, sending him to specialists or informing him he performed below average on 'baseline' tests.

I have no idea on any of the above but I don't think it's as simple as him being upset he got concussed at all.

Yes the major issue appears to be that he had recorded below baseline tests which he wasn't either informed about or understood (due to them not being explained) then he was cleared to go back to training/playing.
My wife just reminded me she spoke to him at a sponsors night about this a while ago and he was explaining all the tests he was having.

Real shame he appears to be a nice kid and he cant even work atm.

[GVGjr]

I know the concussion sub wasn't a popular option but I do think it did its piece in removing any incentive to put players back onto the field. There is going to be a huge issue for the AFL and clubs going to forward.

[jazzadogs]

From wiki:
"Introduced in 2013 in the AFL, a player suspected of having a concussion must take a 20 minute concussion test. Introduced in 2021 in the AFL, after receiving a concussion, the player must not play in a match for 12 days, unless declared fit to play by an experienced doctor."

So there were processes and tests for the doctors to follow as far back as 2014, and there is no real indication from that article whether they were out were not followed. There is a separate question of whether the AFL guidelines were appropriate.

I hope Liam and his family are doing well. Taking this action would have been a very difficult choice, especially as I'm sure he has/had strong relationships with the club doctors.

Let's not forget that his motivation in this action would be to support his family, in a way that he can't do with his occupation anymore.

[Grantysghost]

From wiki:
"Introduced in 2013 in the AFL, a player suspected of having a concussion must take a 20 minute concussion test. Introduced in 2021 in the AFL, after receiving a concussion, the player must not play in a match for 12 days, unless declared fit to play by an experienced doctor."

So there were processes and tests for the doctors to follow as far back as 2014, and there is no real indication from that article whether they were out were not followed. There is a separate question of whether the AFL guidelines were appropriate.

I hope Liam and his family are doing well. Taking this action would have been a very difficult choice, especially as I'm sure he has/had strong relationships with the club doctors.

Let's not forget that his motivation in this action would be to support his family, in a way that he can't do with his occupation anymore.

Yes he doesn't seem the type to do it unless it was a pretty desperate situation.

[jeemak]

This must be terrible for Picken/ his family and the doctors involved, additionally the club itself. It's my hope the club and its operators were following the guidelines. If they weren't then they need to face the consequences.

If they were then the focus needs to go upstream to what the AFL knew about the impacts of concussion and how to manage them, and what they did to ensure risk was efficiently reduced across the competition.

I'm not surprised it's the Pickens fighting this fight. They seem relatively socially aware and Liam always had an eye to a career outside of football if things didn't work out, so I'd imagine his ability to achieve what he had in mind beyond what seems the struggle to live an ordinary and productive life would be a huge issue for them.

As for our doctors I fear they're already tarnished. The burden of proof in a civil case is lower than a criminal one, and working on the assumption the Picken team isn't running a vexatious case it's hard to see them coming out of this unscathed. The club also fits into this category.

[Hotdog60]

This will drag on and Liam will get little and the Lawyers lots.

[Happy Days]

It’s interesting that he’s joined us to the proceeding instead of just the AFL because it means that his camp is thinking there’s a specific claim against us as well as the actual injury.

This is a pretty interesting area of law because we’re well into the era where everyone involved was aware of some risk of head trauma from playing footy. Yet there’s clearly something here or else no one would put their name to it.

Hope it gets cleaned up quickly, but maybe also I don’t?

[hujsh]

This must be terrible for Picken/ his family and the doctors involved, additionally the club itself. It's my hope the club and its operators were following the guidelines. If they weren't then they need to face the consequences.

If they were then the focus needs to go upstream to what the AFL knew about the impacts of concussion and how to manage them, and what they did to ensure risk was efficiently reduced across the competition.

I'm not surprised it's the Pickens fighting this fight. They seem relatively socially aware and Liam always had an eye to a career outside of football if things didn't work out, so I'd imagine his ability to achieve what he had in mind beyond what seems the struggle to live an ordinary and productive life would be a huge issue for them.

As for our doctors I fear they're already tarnished. The burden of proof in a civil case is lower than a criminal one, and working on the assumption the Picken team isn't running a vexatious case it's hard to see them coming out of this unscathed. The club also fits into this category.

Best case scenario (from a supporters perspective) is the blame goes to the AFL HQ. They're also best positioned to compensate Picken

[jeemak]

Best case scenario (from a supporters perspective) is the blame goes to the AFL HQ. They're also best positioned to compensate Picken

We don't know what the detailed guidelines for treating concussion were within the league at the time. If there's ambiguity and the club acted in good faith/ professionally in the most reasonable sense then we may be OK. If the doctors didn't then the club is going to be eating poop sandwiches.

What's troubling to me is the way the lack of disclosure has been tabled, immediately the doctors are in the gun, and naturally the club is as well.

[bulldogtragic]

How long do you think until the first media hit piece that references returning Clay Smith to the field for career ending knees, returning Treloar (against Aints) despite tightness costing him months in 2021, McLean re-doing his ACL in months, allowing Morris to play with a broken back, Tom Boyd’s early retirement, Dunkley doing his shoulder against GWS in 2021 in the last quarter when he looked done for the night with it (rent a headline…), let alone a long line of fragile bodies like Jong (allowed to play VFL with a fractured collarbone), Roughead, Stevens (now retired on concussions), Adams (out now with concussions) etc. and so on then comes out trying to allege we have a systemic and long standing issue of prematurely returning players to the field who shouldn’t have been? Ergo, this Picken allegation must be true, irrespective of the specific detail in Pickens writ.

I give it a few days before certain journos smear our doctors. I’m sure the Essendon media folk want a scalp for their doctor losing his job (being the sort of vindictive sorts they are). I hope the club is ready to defend them immediately against this stuff. I bet it’s coming. Some rival newspapers/journos might see it as a chance to have a dig at one of a big newspaper generally that employs a certain son of one.

[1eyedog]

Well you've provided some pretty good fuel for it right there.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

This is very sad news.
Liam is forever a Bulldog premiership hero, who should be enjoying his post football career and instead is faced with a debilitating chronic condition that appears to be severely impacting his quality of life.

If the truth reveals we as a club have been negligent, or worse then I hope Liam is well compensated and more importantly the club puts in place measures that place health outcomes ahead of football outcomes.

As Jeemak said, at best I hope the club followed established guidelines, but on the premise that Liam's legal team has gone out of their way to attach the club and specifically our medical team to the case, I suspect they've got some very specific claims.

Al the best to Liam and his future health and ability to hopefully regain a measure of improved quality of life. That's the only outcome I'm interested in.

[bulldogtragic]

Well you've provided some pretty good fuel for it right there.

It’s all public knowledge. I could’ve kept going too. But the key point is it has nothing to do with Picken, and his circumstances. But the kind of BS some journos would argue is ‘indisputable truth’.

[EasternWest]

How long do you think until the first media hit piece that references returning Clay Smith to the field for career ending knees, returning Treloar (against Aints) despite tightness costing him months in 2021, McLean re-doing his ACL in months, allowing Morris to play with a broken back, Tom Boyd’s early retirement, Dunkley doing his shoulder against GWS in 2021 in the last quarter when he looked done for the night with it (rent a headline…), let alone a long line of fragile bodies like Jong (allowed to play VFL with a fractured collarbone), Roughead, Stevens (now retired on concussions), Adams (out now with concussions) etc. and so on then comes out trying to allege we have a systemic and long standing issue of prematurely returning players to the field who shouldn’t have been? Ergo, this Picken allegation must be true, irrespective of the specific detail in Pickens writ.

I give it a few days before certain journos smear our doctors. I’m sure the Essendon media folk want a scalp for their doctor losing his job (being the sort of vindictive sorts they are). I hope the club is ready to defend them immediately against this stuff. I bet it’s coming. Some rival newspapers/journos might see it as a chance to have a dig at one of a big newspaper generally that employs a certain son of one.

Far out BT, that's quite a list (and a depressingly accurate one).

I know players are compensated well for what they do, but boy oh boy are they bled to get it.

[bulldogtragic]

Far out BT, that's quite a list (and a depressingly accurate one).

I know players are compensated well for what they do, but boy oh boy are they bled to get it.

Absolutely. At least Picken, Morris & Boyd have great 2016 memories. I really feel for blokes that went from injury to injury like Tom Williams or Jong. Footy is the working persons escape from work and the like, but these guys go through hell to provide it to the masses. That’s not even counting the endless surgeries just to stay in one piece. It’s a sobering reminder for the fans about what happens to our hero’s during their careers with us, but then also what lingers when they fade out of sight in retirement. Maybe just a quick moment to give thanks to everyone that’s pulled on our jumper.

[ReLoad]

This has the potential to be the court based litmus test case the AFL have been avoiding for years. There has been others but nothing has ever played out in court, and this one probably will not either. The AFL, the club and the doctors all have the appropriate insurances, and as such most of the time the insurance underwriter ends up running the defense to the point of offering a compensation package should the case not look appropriately defensible.

Needless to say this doesn't take away from Picko and what he has to go through on a daily basis with his health issues, which you wouldn't wish upon anyone. I hope that he is able to get what he needs to be able to get his life medially back on track.

[Jeanette54]

I think the best guide to how teams treated concussion is John Kennedy's alleged quote, "Injuries above the shoulders don't count".

Wishing Liam all the best for his action and the future. His uncompromising style of football brought so much pleasure to so many of us. He was ultimately just too brave for his own good.

Surely there was some form of workers comp insurance in place when he played, given he was a contracted player ie. an employee. Or was that down to the individual to organise?

[josie]

I think the best guide to how teams treated concussion is John Kennedy's alleged quote, "Injuries above the shoulders don't count".

Wishing Liam all the best for his action and the future. His uncompromising style of football brought so much pleasure to so many of us. He was ultimately just too brave for his own good.

Surely there was some form of workers comp insurance in place when he played, given he was a contracted player ie. an employee. Or was that down to the individual to organise?

Workers comp could come into it for lost earnings & medical expenses, but it is limited. His recompense through courts if found in his favour is likely to be considerably higher.

[bornadog]

This has the potential to be the court based litmus test case the AFL have been avoiding for years. There has been others but nothing has ever played out in court, and this one probably will not either. The AFL, the club and the doctors all have the appropriate insurances, and as such most of the time the insurance underwriter ends up running the defense to the point of offering a compensation package should the case not look appropriately defensible.

Needless to say this doesn't take away from Picko and what he has to go through on a daily basis with his health issues, which you wouldn't wish upon anyone. I hope that he is able to get what he needs to be able to get his life medially back on track.

There is a class action against the AFL that has been put together which will be huge if successful.

Full story click the heading

AFL CONCUSSION CLASS ACTION COULD PUSH $1 BILLION IN COMPENSATION, FIRM HOPES (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/02/27/afl-concussion-class-action-could-push-usd1-billion-in-compensation/)

[angelopetraglia]

Picken embodied the courageous no flinching attack at the contest that the football community has celebrated for generations. We celebrated it. We promoted it. We loved people for it. We scolded people who pulled out.

The football's community perception and approach towards that has to change. I think it has already started to shift.

[Bulldog Legend]

This is very sad news.
Liam is forever a Bulldog premiership hero, who should be enjoying his post football career and instead is faced with a debilitating chronic condition that appears to be severely impacting his quality of life.

If the truth reveals we as a club have been negligent, or worse then I hope Liam is well compensated and more importantly the club puts in place measures that place health outcomes ahead of football outcomes.

As Jeemak said, at best I hope the club followed established guidelines, but on the premise that Liam's legal team has gone out of their way to attach the club and specifically our medical team to the case, I suspect they've got some very specific claims.

Al the best to Liam and his future health and ability to hopefully regain a measure of improved quality of life. That's the only outcome I'm interested in.
The part that doesn’t make sense to me is that are not medical tests etc the property of the patient
I understand that on medical issues there are a variety of opinions just like there are on footy issues but I struggle with this notion that results were withheld
I guess we will have to see it play out but I can’t believe a patient would not be aware of the tests they took so what was withheld.? I am guessing it will come down to medical opinion not an actual withholding of information

[jeemak]

The part that doesn’t make sense to me is that are not medical tests etc the property of the patient
I understand that on medical issues there are a variety of opinions just like there are on footy issues but I struggle with this notion that results were withheld
I guess we will have to see it play out but I can’t believe a patient would not be aware of the tests they took so what was withheld.? I am guessing it will come down to medical opinion not an actual withholding of information

The players may sign a waver, or forego rights to ownership in lieu of the club funding the tests. A bit like a pre-employment medical test, the results often go to the prospective employer as that's what's been agreed by the applicant.

Now if that's the case and the doctors told Liam his results were fine and he's good to go, perhaps Liam didn't feel the need to ask any further questions.

[Bulldog Legend]

The players may sign a waver, or forego rights to ownership in lieu of the club funding the tests. A bit like a pre-employment medical test, the results often go to the prospective employer as that's what's been agreed by the applicant.

Now if that's the case and the doctors told Liam his results were fine and he's good to go, perhaps Liam didn't feel the need to ask any further questions.
I could be wrong but I don’t think you can legally sign away your rights to medical records
Either way the doctors have insurance and so would the club and AFL
i reckon there is more here than what is currently public I just can’t imagine any doctor deliberately putting someone at serious risk. I can understand different medical opinions but not a deliberate conscious decision to put someone at risk of serious harm

[Go_Dogs]

I wonder if that’s part of the way concussion tests are run? Players don’t get to know their baseline so they can’t manipulate future results to get back on the field / training when they aren’t ready.

On face value it seems odd that a test isn’t available but I don’t know enough about it. Just a musing.