Always Right Match Committee Round 2 V St Kilda

[Scraggers]

Welcome to the Always Right Match Committee Thread. The Match Committee threads has been named after long time WOOF member Always Right who tragically passed away in March 2018.

If you were on the Western Bulldogs match committee, what changes would you make after our Round One match against Melbourne for our Round Two match against St Kilda at Marvel on Saturday night?

For those new to these threads, please give a brief explanation for your changes ... this would add a lot of value to the discussion.

[GVGjr]

Bump.

[JanLorMill]

Outs too many to think of.
Ins any of the injuries we had available?

[GVGjr]

Lets assume Jones is out.

In Khamis and Cleary
Out Jones and Hannan

[derb]

If our midfield won't defend, I'm sure West, Garcia and McLean will.

It's hard to know who to bring in without knowing who did well today.

The glaring out for me is Caleb Daniel. Let JJ have a month in defence to see if he can hold down a position there.

[derb]

Lets assume Jones is out.

In Khamis and Cleary
Out Jones and Hannan

I'm certain even St. Kilda with all the injuries to their forwards would still kick a winning score with Keath and Bruce as the main key defenders.

[Grantysghost]

Out : Jones, Duryea, Hannan, JJ.

In from : Garcia, West, Crozier, Khamis, Cleary

[westbulldog]

Out Hannan JJ Jones Keath
In Khamis Cleary Garcia West

Lobb on borrowed time already

[Dry Rot]

If our midfield won't defend, I'm sure West, Garcia and McLean will.



What he/she said.

[derb]

Did any of you legends happen to go to the VFL match today?

[anfo27]

OUT: Bevo's anti-defence football

IN: Actual defence please

[angelopetraglia]

Based on what we witnessed tonight it would be incredibly difficult to make a case for Hannan or JJ. Not only did they have basically zero impact offensively their defensive pressure was basically non-existent. The issue is, I don't know who would be the obvious replacements with our current injuries.

The tall forward line didn't appear to work at all, but I would like to see it at Marvel.

[bornadog]

Based on what we witnessed tonight it would be incredibly difficult to make a case for Hannan or JJ. Not only did they have basically zero impact offensively their defensive pressure was basically non-existent. The issue is, I don't know who would be the obvious replacements with our current injuries.

The tall forward line didn't appear to work at all, but I would like to see it at Marvel.

I wonder if anyone put up their hand in the VFL today?

[GVGjr]

I wonder if anyone put up their hand in the VFL today?

Did the club cover it today?

[bornadog]

Did the club cover it today?

I don't think so

[GVGjr]

I don't think so
I'll put this down to another missed opportunity.

[GVGjr]

Crozier has to be in the mix doesn't he?

[angelopetraglia]

Who did not play tonight who could potentially improve us?

Weightman. Tick. He will make us better. Hopefully not too far away.
Crozier. I'm not too sure. Ahead of Dureya? Possibly due to age.
West. Not sure. Has not shown enough.
Vanda. At his best. His pace is something we do lack.
McComb. No.
McNeil. No.
Jones. Possibly. Yes. We don't have a player like that.
Roarke. Possibly. But doubtful.
Garcia. Possibly. His tenacity and aggression at the ball is something we don't have an abundance of.
Gardner. He is a lock if fit. Just more trustworthy as that pure lock down defender.

But ... there ain't obvious solutions to the issues we faced tonight.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I suspect not many changes are made given tonight's performance was so poor.

Keath and Hannan aren't in our best side but if Jones is out then Keath gets another week. Daniel needs to find form quickly too.

In - West, Khamis
Out - Hannan, Jones

[JanLorMill]

McComb will come in before West or Garcia

[anfo27]

McComb will come in before West or Garcia

Please no!

[azabob]

What position do posters see Khamis playing? I can’t see how he improves our forward or defensive options. Mobility and speed wise he is a very limited player.

[G-Mo77]

Cupboard looks bare in Round 2. Gosh this is awful, just play some rookies, get some new energy in there. Some of these guys are just going though the motions. I've already put a line through this season, blood some new players, build them for 2024 and get a good draft hand. I'm tired of this crap already and it's only Round 1. Hahaha

[chef]

Cupboard looks bare in Round 2. Gosh this is awful, just play some rookies, get some new energy in there. Some of these guys are just going though the motions. I've already put a line through this season, blood some new players, build them for 2024 and get a good draft hand. I'm tired of this crap already and it's only Round 1. Hahaha

The way im processing it is Melbourne are a very good side and we copped them too early in the season. We looked rusty as ****(so many school boy errors). Plus the dumb 4 talls thing, put that in the bin and move on.

[G-Mo77]

The way im processing it is Melbourne are a very good side and we copped them too early in the season. We looked rusty as ****(so many school boy errors). Plus the dumb 4 talls thing, put that in the bin and move on.

Melbourne also missing 3 key players. Cody, Gardner were out notable absentees. We're not that bad and should be better. 50 points to this team is demoralising, imagine had they been full strength?

I think the tall forwards can work. Melbourne aren't exactly short up there, Brown, McDonald, Resting ruck. If they had our forwards they would be all kicking bags. We either don't have the right cattle to make it work or the coaches can't make it work.

Why are we rusty? Why are we not prepared? Why are our players flat nearly every game they run out? Why can't we run out games? It's the same story nearly every week.

Sorry to pick apart your post mate. No shot at you at all, just want answers to why this list is underachieving so badly.

[MrMahatma]

Prob wouldn’t change much. What’s the point? The whole system broke. They broke it, they fix it.

If Jones misses, I’d bring in Cleary. Give him some experience and the Saints don’t have a monster fwd line currently.

[The Underdog]

Cupboard looks bare in Round 2. Gosh this is awful, just play some rookies, get some new energy in there. Some of these guys are just going though the motions. I've already put a line through this season, blood some new players, build them for 2024 and get a good draft hand. I'm tired of this crap already and it's only Round 1. Hahaha

Yeah, that's the problem. I look at who is available to bring in and there's nobody with pace and the willingness to run their arse off. McComb is probably the closest and almost nobody wants to see him in. I love West and Garcia, but they provide almost nothing that we were missing from the side last night.

I'd drop Darcy for a runner but if L. Jones is unavailable, he may have to stay in.

I'm not necessarily sure guys are going through the motions, but next to Melbourne on a big ground we look limited athletically and their willingness to get on the bike from turnover was contrasted by our incredibly slow movement at times. If we've been working on changes to the game plan over the summer, then we fell into old habits almost immediately once things went badly.

[EasternWest]

The way im processing it is Melbourne are a very good side and we copped them too early in the season. We looked rusty as ****(so many school boy errors). Plus the dumb 4 talls thing, put that in the bin and move on.

They really seem to play for each other. So aside from being a good team, they put the effort in for their mates on top of that.

It's one of those things that's hard to capture and create - a bit like the way Collingwood play too. We need to tap into that.

Oh, and stop kicking it to Lever. We needed to do that too.

[1eyedog]

Shuffling deck chairs Woofers. Bevo is hoping this is an anomaly and the same will be said of all individual players. An off night.

Khamis for Jones might happen but I'd be keen to bring West in for JJ who did not look match fit.

[GVGjr]

What position do posters see Khamis playing? I can’t see how he improves our forward or defensive options. Mobility and speed wise he is a very limited player.

If you assume that Jones misses a week then Darcy goes back and that Hannan might be dropped then Khamis might help balance the forward line somewhat. I don't offer that suggestion with a lot of confidence though.

[Danjul]

Melbourne also missing 3 key players. Cody, Gardner were out notable absentees. We're not that bad and should be better. 50 points to this team is demoralising, imagine had they been full strength?

I think the tall forwards can work. Melbourne aren't exactly short up there, Brown, McDonald, Resting ruck. If they had our forwards they would be all kicking bags. We either don't have the right cattle to make it work or the coaches can't make it work.

Why are we rusty? Why are we not prepared? Why are our players flat nearly every game they run out? Why can't we run out games? It's the same story nearly every week.

Sorry to pick apart your post mate. No shot at you at all, just want answers to why this list is underachieving so badly.

Well said. I agree with you. Work back from there.

Brown was ordinary yet kicked 4 goals. Receiving 8 passes (and a little luck) helped him have a good night. That’s a lot more than our whole forward line received.

For some strange reason Melbourne seemed determined to kick the ball to where their forwards were standing by themselves.

[bornadog]

The way im processing it is Melbourne are a very good side and we copped them too early in the season. We looked rusty as ****(so many school boy errors). Plus the dumb 4 talls thing, put that in the bin and move on.

Agree Chef, however, at no stage were there 4 talls in the forward line, unless you include Hannan.

[Grantysghost]

I just watched Bevo’s presser. A bit puzzling.

Stated we were terrible at defending the ground last season (yeah because the back off 5 was insanely stupid), and it’s something we’ve put a lot of time into over pre-season; however he picked one of the tallest slowest sides we’ve ever fielded against one of the best rebound 50 sides in the game.

Said we got nothing out of the small forwards, (Hannan and JJ were both underdone Bevo!) was at pains to say not all the talls are down there at once …like ever man, then qualified it with oh but they do take a smalls spot in the 22.

Rightly pointed out the shallow entries and centre clearance deficit; I’m just worried he’s out of ideas and the ones he has aren’t very good.

Why didn’t West even make the emergency list would’ve been my first question. He and Garcia at the very least have some fight and need to come in for this game.

Im alert not alarmed!

[chef]

Agree Chef, however, at no stage were there 4 talls in the forward line, unless you include Hannan.
We shouldn't have 4 tall fowards in the 22 let alone the forward line.

[bornadog]

We shouldn't have 4 tall fowards in the 22 let alone the forward line.

True. Darcy should be learning in the VFL

[azabob]

True. Darcy should be learning in the VFL

I’d be ok with Darcy playing instead of Bruce or Keath as a tall defender.

[bornadog]

I’d be ok with Darcy playing instead of Bruce or Keath as a tall defender.

I thought Bruce was pretty good last night. I don't rate Keath and Darcy is not very strong

[azabob]

I thought Bruce was pretty good last night. I don't rate Keath and Darcy is not very strong

Agree on Bruce. I think the upside on Darcy and how quickly he has improved with each game we need to play him.

[soupman]

Who did not play tonight who could potentially improve us?


No one.

Last night was not a personnel issue, especially one that can be fixed by 3 or 4 fringe guys. It is a team issue.

Maybe a bit more pace would help us be a little less slow across the ground, but that's 1 of about 20 issues we need to address from last night.

[bornadog]

Agree on Bruce. I think the upside on Darcy and how quickly he has improved with each game we need to play him.

Aza, the biggest issue for me is the bottom 6 players are not contributing and it is left to a few and when that few stuff up, we capitulate. 8 players had less than 9 touches and 10 had less than 11. Compare that to two Melbourne players had less than 11.

We were either under done (Hannan, JJ, Mclean, ), or just not up to standard. Scott barely touched the ball till the last quarter he racked up a few possessions and the biggest disappointment was Lobb.

[Go_Dogs]

Out: Jones
In: Crozier

McLean to start.

I can’t see us making big changes and they’ll back Hannan and JJ to be better for the run.

No point bringing West in, we don’t have a midfield rotation for him and he’s not a small forward, so can’t see it myself.

[soupman]

Said we got nothing out of the small forwards, (Hannan and JJ were both underdone Bevo!)


Lol, wtf were they supposed to do? If we didn't mark it Melbourne did. We certainly weren't interested in passing it to anyones advantage going forward. Hard for the 2-3 blokes (Scott was there for a bit as well) to apply pressure when we were outnumbered constantly and they were out of position anyway because our forward entries were so stupid.

Fwiw I I am very aware I am probably wrong but I thought Hannan was not terrible, thought he did atleast get involved in bits and tried to create his own luck. JJ however....

[soupman]

Aza, the biggest issue for me is the bottom 6 players are not contributing and it is left to a few and when that few stuff up, we capitulate. 8 players had less than 9 touches and 10 had less than 11. Compare that to two Melbourne players had less than 11.


I would argue that Caleb Daniels multiple turnovers cost us more. Or our midfields inability to apply pressure or god forbid kill the ball. Or our "gun" forwardlines inability to ever find themselves in a position where they don't have to overcome the odds to win the ball.

Of our 9* players with less than 11 touches yes Darcy was terrible, JUH was fairly productive in bits before completely disappearing, JJ and Hannan were both poor but didn't get a great opportunity to damage up forward, Keath was terrible but was cooked last season, McLean was the sub and came on when we couldn't string two passes together which is not his fault, Duryea was poor, Jones was injured and yeah Lobb was bad. But aside from Lobb who of that lot did we expect to help fight the tide in a meaningful manner when the rest of the side sucked as well. Half of them were forwards who basically didn't see the ball in the second half, and considering our defence was completely caught on the back foot in the second half due to team structural and setup issues plus us being unable to get any kind of possesion going it's pretty understandable that the worst guys at accumulating the ball in our lineup didn't see much of it.

[bornadog]

I would argue that Caleb Daniels multiple turnovers cost us more. Or our midfields inability to apply pressure or god forbid kill the ball. Or our "gun" forwardlines inability to ever find themselves in a position where they don't have to overcome the odds to win the ball.

Of our 9* players with less than 11 touches yes Darcy was terrible, JUH was fairly productive in bits before completely disappearing, JJ and Hannan were both poor but didn't get a great opportunity to damage up forward, Keath was terrible but was cooked last season, McLean was the sub and came on when we couldn't string two passes together which is not his fault, Duryea was poor, Jones was injured and yeah Lobb was bad. But aside from Lobb who of that lot did we expect to help fight the tide in a meaningful manner when the rest of the side sucked as well. Half of them were forwards who basically didn't see the ball in the second half, and considering our defence was completely caught on the back foot in the second half due to team structural and setup issues plus us being unable to get any kind of possesion going it's pretty understandable that the worst guys at accumulating the ball in our lineup didn't see much of it.

Melbourne had two players with few possessions, one a sub (last quarter) and the other a first gamer.

McLean had 5 disposals in half a game.

[soupman]

Melbourne had two players with few possessions, one a sub (last quarter) and the other a first gamer.

McLean had 5 disposals in half a game.

Yeah and they owned the ball for a half, had no pressure applied to them and every single one of them were able to find space. We nearly drew them for possession numbers but that was solely because the same 4 of our mids would flick the ball between them then kick it to the fringe players opponents advantage.

Besides the bottom 10 players in our sides possession numbers are a symptom of our lack of performance, not the cause.

[Bullies]

Out: Jones
In: Crozier

McLean to start.

I can’t see us making big changes and they’ll back Hannan and JJ to be better for the run.

No point bringing West in, we don’t have a midfield rotation for him and he’s not a small forward, so can’t see it myself. At least with West going into the middle he will put pressure on the opposition which is not happening. Smith, Macrae and Treloar applied no pressure. In saying that we were killed for pace and it is not something West has. I can see now as to why they play Vandermeer when they can.

[Danjul]

Turned the TV on early to see how Dunkley was going. Got the last 15 minutes of that game. Saw some good footy from Port.

The team we fielded would be 6 goals better if we played that way.

But there were some good signs for us in our game.

English has definitely improved, best game I have seen him play. Bailey Smith is a potential match winner. Bruce did better on the backline than I expected. Baker and Williams can kick goals from outside 50,

So what were the reasons we lost so badly?

In my opinion the number one reason was English. A superstar with a fatal weakness. He should never be in a centre bounce against a quality tap ruckman who is having a good game. Hands the opposition the momentum and the scoreboard. I’m sure I heard the commentators say that ‘Melbourne got 4 goals from the last 12 possessions’ at one stage.

The number two reason was Bailey Smith. Another great player. Strong, always in the right place and prepared to take the game on. Any club would be happy to take him off our hands. But again, he has a fatal fault. When he kicks the ball we all know that there is a very good chance that it will start an opposition counter attack.

Sure we will have some good wins this year, against weak opponents. But to go toe-to-toe with the best we have to focus on what our champions are doing.

[Hotdog60]

I think I heard the commentators (I not 100% sure because I zone out when they speak) that Lever was a loose man in defense if so why didn't we man him up.
Were our tall forwards so keen on staying out of each other's way they became invisible. You can't see on TV was Naughton in the centre and Lobb and JUH leading out to the pockets and our mids just throwing it on the boot top the goal area.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

The skills last night were shizenhausen so it is not a personnel issue we were not ready.
The delivery to Lobb and Ugle Hagen was very very bad.
We rarely kicked to advantage in one on one contest.
To me it is simply unprofessional.
I can't understand how players regularly cannot kick it to advantage. A good way to lose modern AFL games.
Changes smanges. Get the mental balance right and execute properly is what we need.

[Mofra]

I think I heard the commentators (I not 100% sure because I zone out when they speak) that Lever was a loose man in defense if so why didn't we man him up.
Gawn rolled back to play as a KPD, releasing Lever.

We had to find a way to make Gawn accountable, but we'd trained all summer for English to play a kick behind the play when the ball's in our F50 so we can defend the exits.
Personally I would have put the ball on Gawns head every time and have Lobb and/or Naughton leading knees out at the pack. We still lack a healthy dose of bastard among the list

[Grantysghost]

Saints are going to be a difficult prospect next week.

[FrediKanoute]

What position do posters see Khamis playing? I can’t see how he improves our forward or defensive options. Mobility and speed wise he is a very limited player.

You send darcy back and let Khamis play up front. darcy needs time in the back half to really nunderstand his game

[G-Mo77]

Saints are going to be a difficult prospect next week.

Yeah, lots thinking we're an automatic win. I'm not picking us, they'll towel us up with our form.

[derb]

Most of the top teams played shit house this week.

That makes me feel better. I'm hoping it was just "one of those weeks".

We know now the saints blueprint to beat us. Bevo is going to have to do his homework this week.

[GVGjr]

Most of the top teams played shit house this week.

That makes me feel better. I'm hoping it was just "one of those weeks".

We know now the saints blueprint to beat us. Bevo is going to have to do his homework this week.

Lyon has a great record against us, we will need to be at our best and nail our selections.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Gawn rolled back to play as a KPD, releasing Lever.

We had to find a way to make Gawn accountable, but we'd trained all summer for English to play a kick behind the play when the ball's in our F50 so we can defend the exits.
Personally I would have put the ball on Gawns head every time and have Lobb and/or Naughton leading knees out at the pack. We still lack a healthy dose of bastard among the list

We just don’t have that kind of mongrel in us. It a shame as you would have thought that Bevo’s aggression would have rubbed off on us.

[Stevo]

Hannan for Gallagher. We need someone to lock onto one of the Saints players like Steele.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

You send darcy back and let Khamis play up front. darcy needs time in the back half to really nunderstand his game
I actually agree but if Jones is out Gardner needs to come home in. JJ out and West in. Give the forward 4 headed monster time to gel. Their $&@? Together. They really need a Western and Weightman in the F50. When Bont needs a rest he swaps with West

[Hotdog60]

It was interesting to hear King say our forwards were too nice. He said Naughton was doing his bit but said Lobb need to crash into the packs more and said he was playing too nice.
JUH was also called to nice although I think JUH is still too slight to be throwing his weight around.

[GVGjr]

It was interesting to hear King say our forwards were too nice. He said Naughton was doing his bit but said Lobb need to crash into the packs more and said he was playing too nice.
JUH was also called to nice although I think JUH is still too slight to be throwing his weight around.

The challenge for Marra is being aggressive in his attack on the football and he is a way off it at the moment.
His ability isn't being questioned.

[GVGjr]

Hannan for Gallagher. We need someone to lock onto one of the Saints players like Steele.

I don't mind the Gallagher selection option but he probably hasn't done the work at the moment to be considered.

[Virgin-Dog]

Might be harsh but I think we need to pull Darcy out and bring in Khamis (and exchange Hannan for Garcia). Khamis allows us to maintain the tall forward line but stops us having Lobb and Darcy together which I really can’t see working. If Jones is fit, I’d be okay with pulling out Keath and giving Darcy his spot instead.

I don’t care where he plays, but I really don’t want Macrae in the centre anymore. His lack of pace and weak defensive game makes him a liability in the middle. We need hard edge and pace in the centre, not an accumulator who racks up 30+ touches every week while being effectively invisible. His delivery inside 50 is a straight up weakness now when it used to be one of his strengths

[GVGjr]

Might be harsh but I think we need to pull Darcy out and bring in Khamis (and exchange Hannan for Garcia). Khamis allows us to maintain the tall forward line but stops us having Lobb and Darcy together which I really can’t see working. If Jones is fit, I’d be okay with pulling out Keath and giving Darcy his spot instead.

I don’t care where he plays, but I really don’t want Macrae in the centre anymore. His lack of pace and weak defensive game makes him a liability in the middle. We need hard edge and pace in the centre, not an accumulator who racks up 30+ touches every week while being effectively invisible. His delivery inside 50 is a straight up weakness now when it used to be one of his strengths

It probably is harsh but it's a suggestion not without merit. We've got some challenges to get the balance right but history will say we will stick with the line-up for a bit longer.

[G-Mo77]

Nothing wrong with Darcy learning his craft in the VFL, although I'd prefer we try and keep him back for now. I think he played a bit of both on Saturday.

[bornadog]

Nothing wrong with Darcy learning his craft in the VFL, although I'd prefer we try and keep him back for now. I think he played a bit of both on Saturday.

He did go back when Jones went down. In fact the mark and goal by Gawn in the goal square, Darcy claimed he punched that.

[GVGjr]

Nothing wrong with Darcy learning his craft in the VFL, although I'd prefer we try and keep him back for now. I think he played a bit of both on Saturday.

I mentioned this a few times with the training reports that despite some eye catching form I'd be okay with him spending some time at Footscray. I hope he proves us wrong though.

[Happy Days]

So for all of you suckers that actually watched the game, can you give me some detail on:

- the ruck split between English and Lobb. I’ve got the general idea that Rory was not good but if we’re using him in ruck relief as much as we would use Cordy or Dunkley then I’m willing to call it not entirely his fault; and
- the ease with which the ball left our 50. My gut feel before the game (other than we would beat them which lol) was that we should’ve picked McNeil for structural reasons and can see that he played pretty well in the VFL (or as well as you can consider someone to have played from a list of goal kickers)
- any changes to the backline after Jones went down, which in light of other personnel missing is (sadly given it’s a 32 year old who was not in the AFL last year) a very significant injury to have happen in game.

[merantau]

I can't address all the issues you raised but I don't recall Lobb spending much time in the ruck - especially not contesting centre bounces. I thought English was very good around the ground but his ruckwork rarely puts the ball to our advantage

I have never been impressed by ruckmen who look at where there opponent is after the ball has been released by the umpire. The ball is the object. Go for it. If someone gets hurt in the process hopefully, if you go hard enough, it won't be you.

Our mids just did not put enough pressure on their mids at centre bounces. It would be interesting to know how many centre bounces were followed immediately by a scrimmage and a stoppage - not many from memory.
So why is this significant? It's because it shows we're in the CONTEST. It takes pressure of the defence. It allows players to get back into our defensive 50.

[bornadog]

I thought English was very good around the ground but his ruckwork rarely puts the ball to our advantage
.

Not true. Hitouts to advantage - Gawn 7, Tim 6. Around the ground we won stoppage clearances, we lost clearances in the centre.

Last year we were the number one clearance team for both Stoppage and Centre, however, Melbourne continually beat us in the Centre.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

English wasn't the problem at all. And I have been vocal in the past about his ruck work, but his game was mostly good. He had zero help (Lobb barely rucked and was lost) and the mids and the way they were pushed aside by Petracca/Oliver was embarrassing.

[bornadog]

English wasn't the problem at all. And I have been vocal in the past about his ruck work, but his game was mostly good. He had zero help (Lobb barely rucked and was lost) and the mids and the way they were pushed aside by Petracca/Oliver was embarrassing.

Our issue, like last year was defence. We have tried to train all pre-season for a new game plan on defending but it fell a part again.

Maybe it will take a few games to get used to it, but we can't afford not to tighten up. Good teams will blow it apart. Not sure with Jones going down the avalanche started.

[Boots]

I think we have to make nearly no changes and keep trying to settle the new game plan. It'd be nice to get Cody back but I don't think we do yet do we? And Gardner is out a bit longer too, isn't he?

Of the list of players I would like to see gone - JJ chief among them - I just can't see the MC ditching them. For whatever reason players like West and Garcia never get a game and players like Hannan seem to fit some sort of criteria we don't understand. So if we have to give the new system time to settle, then we also have to give the junk players time too, since they might be more important to the system than we know/think. Maybe.

[Mantis]

Our issue, like last year was defence. We have tried to train all pre-season for a new game plan on defending but it fell a part again.

Maybe it will take a few games to get used to it, but we can't afford not to tighten up. Good teams will blow it apart. Not sure with Jones going down the avalanche started.

What does our new defensive game plan look like?

To me it looked exactly the same as it has in years gone by... defend high and get exposed ''over the back''.

[bornadog]

What does our new defensive game plan look like?

To me it looked exactly the same as it has in years gone by... defend high and get exposed ''over the back''.

Fell into old habits

[Mantis]

I can't see how JJ, Hannan and McLean stay in the team for this week.. replace them all with Garcia, West and McNeil.

If Jones is fit then Keath makes way for Cleary.... was hoping the reduction in weight would help with mobility, but he was lost out there.

Daniel needs to be moved from the backline... he cost us 3-4 goals with his ball use... held onto the ball for too long and then gave it away too easily. Play him on a wing or HF.... or not at all.

[Grantysghost]

What does our new defensive game plan look like?

To me it looked exactly the same as it has in years gone by... defend high and get exposed ''over the back''.

Bevo said in the members message we are defending all the way to the opposition goal square!?

Clearly not when we moving into forward 50 from a stoppage.

That Melksham goal was horrendous defense.

[1eyedog]

So for all of you suckers that actually watched the game, can you give me some detail on:

- the ruck split between English and Lobb. I’ve got the general idea that Rory was not good but if we’re using him in ruck relief as much as we would use Cordy or Dunkley then I’m willing to call it not entirely his fault; and
- the ease with which the ball left our 50. My gut feel before the game (other than we would beat them which lol) was that we should’ve picked McNeil for structural reasons and can see that he played pretty well in the VFL (or as well as you can consider someone to have played from a list of goal kickers)
- any changes to the backline after Jones went down, which in light of other personnel missing is (sadly given it’s a 32 year old who was not in the AFL last year) a very significant injury to have happen in game.

You should just be a sucker and watch it and then give us your opinion.

[Happy Days]

You should just be a sucker and watch it and then give us your opinion.

My man it is not even midday on Monday why are you trying to ruin my whole week

[Grantysghost]

My man it is not even midday on Monday why are you trying to ruin my whole week

Or you could just watch the GF....

[bornadog]

My man it is not even midday on Monday why are you trying to ruin my whole week

Don't do it. Move on and forget it happened.

[Mantis]

Bevo said in the members message we are defending all the way to the opposition goal square!?

Clearly not when we moving into forward 50 from a stoppage.

That Melksham goal was horrendous defense.

It was ****ing embarrassing.. I know we got smoked in the centre clearances, but they kicked 12.6 from D50 which means our defensive transition & team defence was non-existent.

[MrMahatma]

There were key moments that we stuffed. There were simple mistakes (plenty of them) that led directly to their goals. In an alternate universe and those things were changed, maybe we're in the match going into the last 10 min.

However, there was absolutely 0 about things that LOOKED like we were defending differently or better. The over the back sh1t just sliced us up as usual.

I think we gotta stay with the same blokes (or maybe rebalance defence if match ups aren't right) and IF we're trying to implement something DIFFERENT from what we've done for the past 4-5 years, then let's give it a bit of time. Going backwards to go forwards.

[Danjul]

I’m surprised that nobody has commented on the fact that emerged from Saturday night’s game that puts a spotlight on what is wrong. And if we fix it it’s a smooth path to the finals.

And all we have to do is look at the last two bulldog games that Lobb participated in.

When playing against us he had only 7 possessions. 7 marks leading to 7 kicks and 4 match winning goals.

When playing with us he had only 2 marks leading to 2 kicks and no scoring.


Same player but totally different outcomes.

We need a totally different game plan that focuses on getting the ball into the forwards hands - as JUH so clearly pointed out during the game. No more of the endless handball on the half back line. Melbourne loved watching us waste time and momentum while they set up to receive the under pressure disposals. It was the reason Lever and their other backmen had such a good night.

4 decent kicks from full back should give Lobb (or one of the other forwards) a mark and a shot at goal.

Can someone spend a little time explaining to the players what a decent kick looks like.

Then we won’t have to worry about playing the Saints (or any of the top sides).

[Virgin-Dog]

So for all of you suckers that actually watched the game, can you give me some detail on:

- the ruck split between English and Lobb. I’ve got the general idea that Rory was not good but if we’re using him in ruck relief as much as we would use Cordy or Dunkley then I’m willing to call it not entirely his fault; and
- the ease with which the ball left our 50. My gut feel before the game (other than we would beat them which lol) was that we should’ve picked McNeil for structural reasons and can see that he played pretty well in the VFL (or as well as you can consider someone to have played from a list of goal kickers)
- any changes to the backline after Jones went down, which in light of other personnel missing is (sadly given it’s a 32 year old who was not in the AFL last year) a very significant injury to have happen in game.
Lobb attended one centre bounce. He had 9 ruck contests overall compared to 62 for English, 5 for Naughton and 4 for Darcy. He didn’t go up against Gawn at all, while English struggled against Gawn, so really didn’t like how we used him.

[Bullies]

Lobb attended one centre bounce. He had 9 ruck contests overall compared to 62 for English, 5 for Naughton and 4 for Darcy. He didn’t go up against Gawn at all, while English struggled against Gawn, so really didn’t like how we used him. Lobbe has made it known he doesn't like rucking and only does it out of necessity.

[Virgin-Dog]

Lobbe has made it known he doesn't like rucking and only does it out of necessity.
If he's a team player, he'll ruck when required. We shouldn't bow to his demands when we've just traded him in. It should be made clear he's the least "forward" of all the forwards. I was disappointed how little he rucked, really don't want to see Naughton rucking at all unless there's a mismatch (i.e. no true ruckman available for the opposition, so he can manhandle them)

[MrMahatma]

Lobb attended one centre bounce. He had 9 ruck contests overall compared to 62 for English, 5 for Naughton and 4 for Darcy. He didn’t go up against Gawn at all, while English struggled against Gawn, so really didn’t like how we used him.

I knew he didn't ruck much but that's pretty crazy. I mean, even just to give Tim a rest you'd think he'd attend a few more centre bounces. Bruce used to.

Is it up to the players to make that rotation? Runners aren't used so much now so should they be driving that? I agree with a few on here that Lobb's value to the team also includes a decent chunk of ruck time.

[Happy Days]

If Lobb doesn’t ruck at least 35% of the game then I’m scratching my head as to why we would bother getting him.

[Grantysghost]

Lobb doesn't like the ruck?

So we've got 2 x ruck forwards, however in reality 1 x ruck and 1 x forward net.

Surely Lobb plays where he's required. If not then i'm on the bye bye Bevo bandwagon.

[bulldogfan]

I think why we recruited him is because we didn’t think Darcy and juh would come on as quickly as they did

[BornInDroopSt'54]

If Lobb doesn’t ruck at least 35% of the game then I’m scratching my head as to why we would bother getting him.

Because English wants to ruck and not go forward.

[MrMahatma]

Because English wants to ruck and not go forward.

Hmmm.

I dunno. It's like he rucked MORE this game than he used to when we didn't have an actual 2nd ruck option. That doesn't make sense.

[Bullies]

If he's a team player, he'll ruck when required. We shouldn't bow to his demands when we've just traded him in. It should be made clear he's the least "forward" of all the forwards. I was disappointed how little he rucked, really don't want to see Naughton rucking at all unless there's a mismatch (i.e. no true ruckman available for the opposition, so he can manhandle them) He made it clear prior to signing and he always has. He prefers to play forward.

[Rocket Science]

https://i.ibb.co/Gxgz468/Screen-Shot-2023-03-20-at-4-49-44-pm.png (https://ibb.co/4mBhnqX)

Me whenever the club issues a 'Medical Room' Update ...

https://i.ibb.co/ZBcDTxY/Ffdr8bw-WYBcr9-Lb.jpg (https://ibb.co/ByTMsBr)

[JanLorMill]

Dunkley or Jong to pinch hit in the ruck this week

[josie]

Dunkley or Jong to pinch hit in the ruck this week

You forgot Cordy and Young.

[josie]

Out - Lobb - inj, Jones - inj, Hannan, JJ
In - Khamis, Cleary, Maclean, West (JJ as sub) with Bruce to be relief ruck when not in backline or resting

Daniel under scrutiny too

[bornadog]

Out - Lobb - inj, Jones - inj, Hannan, JJ
In - Khamis, Cleary, Maclean, West (JJ as sub) with Bruce to be relief ruck when not in backline or resting

Daniel under scrutiny too

I bet Khamis does the second ruck role

[Jasper]

Would McComb come into calculations? I know he has plenty of doubters but he does work his arse off.

[JanLorMill]

I bet Khamis does the second ruck role
If we are going to ruck English 95% again then 5% to a very slight Darcy isn't going to hurt him

[Axe Man]

St Kilda played Marshall as their sole ruck on the weekend so Buku or Darcy chopping English out against whoever relieves Marshall (Cordy?) shouldn't be an issue at least.

[Jasper]

Out - Lobb - inj, Jones - inj, Hannan, JJ
In - Khamis, Cleary, Maclean, West (JJ as sub) with Bruce to be relief ruck when not in backline or resting

Daniel under scrutiny too

If Jones plays we could use Bruce in that role.

[LifeLongBulldog]

For those who watched the VFL practice match against Casey Demons, did anyone put their hand up for a selection recall?

[EasternWest]

You forgot Cordy and Young.

Not Young. Wouldn't want to force him out of the club. I've got a good feeling about him.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Lobb may well have been used in a way to manage his ankle during the game against the Dees

[EasternWest]

Lobb may well have been used in a way to manage his ankle during the game against the Dees

Pardon me we'll have no sensibility in this conversation thanks.

[Happy Days]

Yeah in a weird way that Lobb news is a relief. Willing to reserve judgement on his role for a game where he isn’t compromised.

[JanLorMill]

Lobb may well have been used in a way to manage his ankle during the game against the Dees
What’s the difference running around at chf or in the ruck?

[GVGjr]

What’s the difference running around at chf or in the ruck?

I'd say there is more contact in the ruck.

[Hotdog60]

Lobb has had this issue for years why didn't he get it fixed at Freo or better still did we do a medical and if he told us we should have had it fixed when he first got here.

[bornadog]

Lobb has had this issue for years why didn't he get it fixed at Freo or better still did we do a medical and if he told us we should have had it fixed when he first got here.
minor injury

[G-Mo77]

minor injury

He's had surgery? Can't be minor if he's going under the knife. Bell says not too long, 1 - 2 weeks so back mid season.

[bornadog]

He's had surgery? Can't be minor if he's going under the knife. Bell says not too long, 1 - 2 weeks so back mid season.

there Is surgery and there is Surgery. He is getting a clean up. Not like it is an ankle restructure or anything.

[G-Mo77]

there Is surgery and there is Surgery. He is getting a clean up. Not like it is an ankle restructure or anything.

Still, it's not like he's going to be running in the next few weeks. I really don't get it, we knew about it, Freo knew about it and we clean it up after Round 1?

[bornadog]

Still, it's not like he's going to be running in the next few weeks. I really don't get it, we knew about it, Freo knew about it and we clean it up after Round 1?

He has been training and participating in game simulations? All I am saying is do we know?

[G-Mo77]

He has been training and participating in game simulations? All I am saying is do we know?

“Rory Lobb has developed some catching pain in his ankle, relating to some small loose bodies in the joint that have intermittently caused him issues in the last few years,” Head of Sports Medicine, Chris Bell said.

“To minimise risk of him having recurrent issues, we have decided to be proactive and wash the loose bodies out with an ankle arthroscopy this afternoon.”

Being proactive would have been doing something before the season started. This is the opposite

[Rocket Science]

I mean call me pernickety but had I spent a year planning for Lobb in order to refashion our attack around him it might've crossed my mind to nip any persistent ankle dodginess at literally any stage prior to the SEASON OPENER.

[Grantysghost]

Surgery on an ankle isn't going to be a couple of weeks.
I expect he will be back somewhere around 5-10 weeks.
Bit shit.

[Danjul]

Seeing Lobb only had 2 kicks and attended 9 ruck contests I don’t understand all the tears and wailing at the news that he will miss a game. I know it’s going to totally undermine our shiny new game plan but we do have options other than begging other teams to send some players back.

1. put English at centre half back and tell Daniel to give him leads just forward of the centre. So our backline tactic is Dale to English to Daniel. We are less than a quarter of the way through the alphabet and we only need one decent pass and the three headed monster is lining up for goal.

That’s what all the good teams would do. Melbourne did it with their talent. The ball doesn’t need to go anywhere near the boundary line. Maybe Lipinski can be a guest at training to explain how direct footy works so well at Collingwood.

steps 2-10. Aren’t needed if they work on this.

Then just enjoy the victories. The alternative is to keep what we are doing and hope to fall into 8th again.

[azabob]

“Rory Lobb has developed some catching pain in his ankle, relating to some small loose bodies in the joint that have intermittently caused him issues in the last few years,” Head of Sports Medicine, Chris Bell said.

“To minimise risk of him having recurrent issues, we have decided to be proactive and wash the loose bodies out with an ankle arthroscopy this afternoon.”

Being proactive would have been doing something before the season started. This is the opposite

Fairly black and white there.

[azabob]

Danjul I think posters are more bemused that we didn’t do anything pro active on the injury, not that he is missing games.

[Grantysghost]

I mean call me pernickety but had I spent a year planning for Lobb in order to refashion our attack around him it might've crossed my mind to nip any persistent ankle dodginess at literally any stage prior to the SEASON OPENER.

It's a little mind boggling isn't it.

This season is going to be a wild ride I feel.

Started with Bevo's new fangs, could lead anywhere!

[Danjul]

Danjul I think posters are more bemused that we didn’t do anything pro active on the injury, not that he is missing games.
We played Weightman when he was one-armed (for 1 disposal if I remember correctly). We played Bruce when he couldn’t run or jump (for 2 disposals-the second approaching time on in the last quarter).

I suspect putting fragments in Lobb’s ankle was a deliberate attempt to continue developing new club traditions.

Like last Quarter fade-outs and being on the receiving end of 5 goals from 17 possessions.

When these things happen once it amazing to witness historic events. When it’s a regular part of the footy experience I am speechless.

[Jasper]

You have a great eye for detail Danjul.

[Matjoh]

Lol, wtf were they supposed to do? If we didn't mark it Melbourne did. We certainly weren't interested in passing it to anyones advantage going forward. Hard for the 2-3 blokes (Scott was there for a bit as well) to apply pressure when we were outnumbered constantly and they were out of position anyway because our forward entries were so stupid.

Fwiw I I am very aware I am probably wrong but I thought Hannan was not terrible, thought he did atleast get involved in bits and tried to create his own luck. JJ however....
Yes, Hannan was as good/bad as half the team. Stays in. JJ out, West or Garcia in, theyre as close as we get to flea [not too close].Crumbers who go for it which they both do. Missing badly v dees. If no Jones then Darcy back else Crozier or Cleary in, Darcy helps English, i/c forward as Lobbs out.. Bruce was as good as anyone.

[kruder]

Wasn't Lobb on light duties after the Norf preseason game? Sounds like we went in with quite a few underdone players.

[derb]

https://twitter.com/StevoMedia/status/1637696376946692097?t=8217HFGBYttswJOTKVayng&s=19

Khamis will be an inclusion imo

[Curly5]

I don't mind the Gallagher selection option but he probably hasn't done the work at the moment to be considered.

Dubious that Gallagher could run a game out at this early stage, with all of the preseason he missed. And against someone with the stamina and experience of Steele? It's a no from me.

[Rocco Jones]

- Buku for Lobb seems a lock. With how hampered Lobb seems, Khamis wouldn't have to do much to make this an improvement from last week. Hopefully he can provide at least a base of energy/making it difficult for opposition.

- Tobias for Hannan. Not being facetious here, I don't truly get why Hannan is in the side anyway, so legitimately I/we might me missing something. I am truly open to it. I know he can run, do things like pinch hit in the ruck but he is like a K-Mart Swiss Army Knife to me. Reminds me of the crappy all-rounds Englad played in the 90s who couldn't bat or bowl. Anyways, I'll stop there with the analogies.

If Tobias is to play he has to take a fair chunk of CBAs or we go a McNeil, might do that as well. I want McNeil in tactically but got no idea how he is travelling. I am normally dead against this but I would have Bont forward more and Baz too. We are missing players who can do something on ground level forward and not like winning clearances worked last week. If Tobias struggles, I think we need to be proactive. See how he goes forward as well. Might be the guy subbed off. Lyon will surely tag Bont, get a step ahead perhaps.

- JJ stays in I guess. Again hard to tell without VFL. McNeil demanding a spot would be great as I mentioned.

- Crozier for Keath. Keath stays in if Jones is out.

- Whoever we go with as sub I hope it has some purpose. Look I believe we overvalue the last guys picked but still worth trying to extract as much value as you can. Playing Westy and Tobias with no CBAs just doesn't work.

[bornadog]

- Tobias for Hannan.

What worries me about McLean is how we use him. On Saturday in two quarters he picked up 5 disposals, of which he had 1 kick. Not sure where he was playing?

I would like to see Garcia come in.

[angelopetraglia]

Mitch Cleary

STK can’t take a trick with injuries. Jimmy Webster will miss at least this week with a broken bone in his hand.
Jack Bytel will also miss the game v Western Bulldogs after he was admitted to hospital with a cut to his knee.
Marcus Windhager expected to return.

Tim Membrey at least a month away. Max King at least six weeks away. No concern around Rowan Marshall’s shoulder. Seb Ross faces a fitness test on his calf injury

[Rocco Jones]

What worries me about McLean is how we use him. On Saturday in two quarters he picked up 5 disposals, of which he had 1 kick. Not sure where he was playing?

I would like to see Garcia come in.

Yep, as I mentioned, I would only have him in if attending CBAs.

[Mofra]

Yep, as I mentioned, I would only have him in if attending CBAs.
So now we have the concern of taking in guys who aren't 'flexible' - I love Libba and Macrae but they're terrible forward of the ball.
I like McLean but if we're playing him as a pure mid - I'd find someone else to put into the side.

[Rocco Jones]

So now we have the concern of taking in guys who aren't 'flexible' - I love Libba and Macrae but they're terrible forward of the ball.
I like McLean but if we're playing him as a pure mid - I'd find someone else to put into the side.

Yep it's a tough one. I wouldn't say purely as a mid but attending CBAs, especially if struggling to get near it forward.

[MrMahatma]

Mitch Cleary

STK can’t take a trick with injuries. Jimmy Webster will miss at least this week with a broken bone in his hand.
Jack Bytel will also miss the game v Western Bulldogs after he was admitted to hospital with a cut to his knee.
Marcus Windhager expected to return.

Tim Membrey at least a month away. Max King at least six weeks away. No concern around Rowan Marshall’s shoulder. Seb Ross faces a fitness test on his calf injury

They'll win 28 - 26.

[Happy Days]

Did anyone else have the misfortune of watching the Saints game last weekend? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team place less interest in entering their forward 50, or even with how they moved the ball altogether. RTB is definitely back.

I think we will be much more daring than Fremantle were and hopefully we get much better play out of our key forwards.

[lemmon]

- Buku for Lobb seems a lock. With how hampered Lobb seems, Khamis wouldn't have to do much to make this an improvement from last week. Hopefully he can provide at least a base of energy/making it difficult for opposition.


I don't mind the idea of Buku in, but doesn't it maintain the four-tall forward set-up? I get that Khamis isn't a 200cm monster but he is a mark and kick player - he's never offered much at ground level in the forward line. I struggle to see how he works effectively in that mix, even without Lobb.

My first thoughts are:

Out: Lobb, Jones, Hannan
In: Crozier, West, McLean

[Virgin-Dog]

I struggle to see how Hannan's selection is justified currently. I think he's been unfairly been targeted as a whipping boy in the past, and was probably somewhat underrated by fans for his work at blocking for our talls, but he seems a terrible fit in such a tall forward line. He functions as a pseudo-tall, and is basically stretching that 4 tall forward line to 5 tall forwards.

I'd much rather see a group of high pressure smalls whose entire goal is apply pressure and lock the ball in our forward 50, disregarding scoreboard impact. At least two of McNeil, Garcia and West should really be playing forward (unless we have Baker playing significant minutes forward instead of the wing) if we're going to make this tall forward line work. JJ doesn't apply enough defensive pressure, but is a good finisher, so I'd be okay with keeping him in but we seriously need to replace Hannan with a pressure small.

[GVGjr]

Mitch Cleary

STK can’t take a trick with injuries. Jimmy Webster will miss at least this week with a broken bone in his hand.
Jack Bytel will also miss the game v Western Bulldogs after he was admitted to hospital with a cut to his knee.
Marcus Windhager expected to return.

Tim Membrey at least a month away. Max King at least six weeks away. No concern around Rowan Marshall’s shoulder. Seb Ross faces a fitness test on his calf injury

Bytel would have almost certainly had a run with role with one of our midfielders.

[GVGjr]

I struggle to see how Hannan's selection is justified currently. I think he's been unfairly been targeted as a whipping boy in the past, and was probably somewhat underrated by fans for his work at blocking for our talls, but he seems a terrible fit in such a tall forward line. He functions as a pseudo-tall, and is basically stretching that 4 tall forward line to 5 tall forwards.

I'd much rather see a group of high pressure smalls whose entire goal is apply pressure and lock the ball in our forward 50, disregarding scoreboard impact. At least two of McNeil, Garcia and West should really be playing forward (unless we have Baker playing significant minutes forward instead of the wing) if we're going to make this tall forward line work. JJ doesn't apply enough defensive pressure, but is a good finisher, so I'd be okay with keeping him in but we seriously need to replace Hannan with a pressure small.

Big challenge for the MC to nail the selections. West, McNeil and maybe Garcia would be in with a chance.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Did anyone else have the misfortune of watching the Saints game last weekend? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team place less interest in entering their forward 50, or even with how they moved the ball altogether. RTB is definitely back.

I think we will be much more daring than Fremantle were and hopefully we get much better play out of our key forwards.

It certainly looked like a typical Ross Lyon game. A dull affair that just gets his team over the line.

We have long struggled against his sides though. I'm not sure we have the steadiness and composure to break down his extreme defensive gameplan. Other teams sure will but we (and we did this back in the Eade era as well) often shoot ourselves in the foot.

[Rocco Jones]

I think we will break them. I see us as flat trackers. If a side brings skill + intensity we are cooked but otherwise we are fine. Think we will smash a lot of sides who aren't very good but uncompetitive when a gun side is firing.

[macca]

If we don't address our fwd pressure and ability to trap the ball in the forward half, Lyon would just wait for us to bomb it long into our forward line, the skill error and away they go on the rebound.

[derb]

Our forward line can't house both Buku and Hannan imo.

[GVGjr]

Our forward line can't house both Buku and Hannan imo.

I wouldn't think that is workable for us either.

[Rocco Jones]

Freo's 7 main defenders vs Saints combined for a staggering 81 marks and 188 disposals. The Saints had 2 i50 tackles for the game. I didn't watch much of the game but the stats are staggering.

[Danjul]

If we don't address our fwd pressure and ability to trap the ball in the forward half, Lyon would just wait for us to bomb it long into our forward line, the skill error and away they go on the rebound.
I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it.

A lot of the problem stems from the ruck contests. We win the majority of the clearances but they are poor quality clearances. This is because we set up defensively and have to battle for the ball. The players are under pressure and therefore indirect. Where Melbourne got the ball deep into the forward zone from the centre we got it to the half forward flank.

Everyone seems to be saying our midfielders were poor. Don’t think so. Gawn put the ball in Petracca’s hand repeatedly when he was moving at close to full speed. Swap ruckmen swap results.

We play a high risk game plan. Handball keeps the players close together, helps the opposition corral them, resulting in poor disposals and tires them out. How else could the Melbourne backline take so many more uncontested marks.

Melbourne kicked it. Gave them direction and speed we could not cope with. Kept them fresh.

We didn’t, result was being pressured and we had the characteristic fade out. Only 2 scoring shots in the last half hour. After a good start we couldn’t get to 10 goals.

None of this is new. We have been doing it consistently for over 12 months and it is getting boring.

Time to play in the style that others use to crush us.

[josie]

So Danjul - do you think we should play Sweet?

[1eyedog]

I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it.

A lot of the problem stems from the ruck contests. We win the majority of the clearances but they are poor quality clearances. This is because we set up defensively and have to battle for the ball. The players are under pressure and therefore indirect. Where Melbourne got the ball deep into the forward zone from the centre we got it to the half forward flank.

Everyone seems to be saying our midfielders were poor. Don’t think so. Gawn put the ball in Petracca’s hand repeatedly when he was moving at close to full speed. Swap ruckmen swap results.

We play a high risk game plan. Handball keeps the players close together, helps the opposition corral them, resulting in poor disposals and tires them out. How else could the Melbourne backline take so many more uncontested marks.

Melbourne kicked it. Gave them direction and speed we could not cope with. Kept them fresh.

We didn’t, result was being pressured and we had the characteristic fade out. Only 2 scoring shots in the last half hour. After a good start we couldn’t get to 10 goals.

None of this is new. We have been doing it consistently for over 12 months and it is getting boring.

Time to play in the style that others use to crush us.

If this is truly the case the blowtorch needs to go on Bevo.

To be frank I'm getting stale on Bevo's game plan. It's starting to stink a bit Rhodeish these days, too much emphasis on defence, too static he needs a refresh. Feels like we're pissng the list against the wall.

Last two games have been absolutely abhorrent. He think it's an anomaly but it's actually been the norm for a long period of time.

[mjp]

I think we will be much more daring than Fremantle were and hopefully we get much better play out of our key forwards.

I'm pretty sure they had 65 inside 50's...still couldn't score.

[bornadog]

I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it.

A lot of the problem stems from the ruck contests. We win the majority of the clearances but they are poor quality clearances. This is because we set up defensively and have to battle for the ball. The players are under pressure and therefore indirect. Where Melbourne got the ball deep into the forward zone from the centre we got it to the half forward flank.

Everyone seems to be saying our midfielders were poor. Don’t think so. Gawn put the ball in Petracca’s hand repeatedly when he was moving at close to full speed. Swap ruckmen swap results.

We play a high risk game plan. Handball keeps the players close together, helps the opposition corral them, resulting in poor disposals and tires them out. How else could the Melbourne backline take so many more uncontested marks.

Melbourne kicked it. Gave them direction and speed we could not cope with. Kept them fresh.

We didn’t, result was being pressured and we had the characteristic fade out. Only 2 scoring shots in the last half hour. After a good start we couldn’t get to 10 goals.

None of this is new. We have been doing it consistently for over 12 months and it is getting boring.

Time to play in the style that others use to crush us.
hitouts to advantage
Tim - 6
Gawn 7
Grundy 4
Lobb 1

hardly supports your theory

[Danjul]

So Danjul - do you think we should play Sweet?

Not if he isn’t AFL standard.

How do we determine that?

We could simply say to the players :

Any careless long bomb that gives an unmanned opposition player a mark results in a fine of 5% of match payment.

Immediately we would be better and wouldn’t have to consider new players. Unlikely to be said.

So I am forced to consider players who weren’t given the opportunity to embarrass the club on Saturday. So I will compare Sweet to one who was.

In Sweet’s last game before he was banished last year, his worst for the year, he played better than Lobb did on Saturday. Both were 6 disposals but Sweet had 9 hitouts as second ruck and Lobb had 3.

Why did I say better, isn’t that almost equal. No, Sweet did more heavy work in packs helping smaller guys. (I realise that is a weak argument. But it will save Hannan, for example. And the half dozen others from Saturday.)

But another aspect which has never been revealed before. Lobb was given 50% more game time to get Sweet’s worst contribution. I was at the game and Bevo had Sweet sitting on an exercise bike for 40% of the match.

But Lobb was fantastic last year. Lots of goals.

Actually, in a quarter of his games he was goalless, in another quarter he scored only 1. And that’s standing in the forward line for about 80% of all matches, in a better team that delivered well into the forward line, as we saw close up twice. His 6 goals against us was nearly 20% of his total.

But Lobb got lots more possessions at Freo last year I hear you say.

He was in a better performing team and always given 90+% game time. Sweet was given 70%. Despite his advantages Lobb averaged 2 possessions a game more than Sweet. Did anyone know that when they chased him?

Ah, but he rucked a lot!

No he didn’t. In half of his games last year you could count his hitouts on your fingers. In 20 games he once got over 15 hitouts. He was a forward who didn’t ruck much.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not criticising Lobb. Our strategy hinges on him.

But our problem is not going to be solved by a forward who doesn’t like the ruck. We need a tap ruckman.

So in my opinion Sweet (or Sweetie as my iPad is suggesting) is selectable. But that’s not going to happen for the simple reason he is not blonde like Lobb.


And thanks for asking.

[1eyedog]

I think most are in agreeance that Sweetie can't get to enough contests. Very serviceable 10-15 years ago but you have to have shown you are more than just a tap ruckman in today's game. If he was a good mark of the footy I'm almost certain he'd be playing more but he's not.

He's a Dinosaur and is only really kept on the list in case English snaps in half.

[Danjul]

hitouts to advantage
Tim - 6
Gawn 7
Grundy 4
Lobb 1

hardly supports your theory

After the last of Melbourne’s 5 goals from 17 possessions the AFL website reported that Melbourne won the last 6 clearances.

In the last 10 minutes of the second quarter during the period of Melbourne’s ruck dominance the Dogs managed 4 possessions.

History records:

[bounce-tap-(thank you)-pass-pass-goal] x 5 = game over in a less than 10 minute burst (again).

average time between goals was 2 minutes (including getting the ball out of the crowd)

So yes, quality clearances from the centre generate goals and win games and demoralise opposing players and their supporters.

And we didn’t get any.

[Danjul]

hitouts to advantage
Tim - 6
Gawn 7
Grundy 4
Lobb 1

hardly supports your theory

English had 33 ruck contests against Gawn for 1 to advantage. Gawn had 7 to advantage. They were not close in impact.

But as I have said, English had an excellent game. I think I said it was his best yet. Just one problem with it.

[Danjul]

I think most are in agreeance that Sweetie can't get to enough contests. Very serviceable 10-15 years ago but you have to have shown you are more than just a tap ruckman in today's game. If he was a good mark of the footy I'm almost certain he'd be playing more but he's not.

He's a Dinosaur and is only really kept on the list in case English snaps in half.

In his last 8 games last season English averaged 13 possessions per game. The same as Sweet got against Collingwood.

But yes, I understand that not all 13s are equal.

And English’s 11 in round 20 was a thousand times better than Sweet’s 11 four weeks earlier. Maths is funny that way.

And English combined his with 25 hitouts which were clearly a million times better than Sweets 26.

English is our champion and Sweet is our dinosaur, fortunately language doesn’t follow rules like mathematics.


I ‘m not criticising English and if I had to choose between them I would take English every time. But to get the most successful team I would often have both. We have squandered opportunities by playing favourites for too long.

Look at what happened on Saturday. Was anyone surprised?

[F'scary]

So let's play Sweet and anyone but Hannan.

[FrediKanoute]

In his last 8 games last season English averaged 13 possessions per game. The same as Sweet got against Collingwood.

But yes, I understand that not all 13s are equal.

And English’s 11 in round 20 was a thousand times better than Sweet’s 11 four weeks earlier. Maths is funny that way.

And English combined his with 25 hitouts which were clearly a million times better than Sweets 26.

English is our champion and Sweet is our dinosaur, fortunately language doesn’t follow rules like mathematics.


I ‘m not criticising English and if I had to choose between them I would take English every time. But to get the most successful team I would often have both. We have squandered opportunities by playing favourites for too long.

Look at what happened on Saturday. Was anyone surprised?

I agree. I would have English as the 2nd ruck forward and Sweet as our ruck.

I really though would have had English as our 2nd ruck forward and Grundy as our ruck, but we didn't go for that trade.

[Happy Days]

I'm pretty sure they had 65 inside 50's...still couldn't score.

It was like they knew, between Zaine and that undrafted first gamer guy, that they wouldn’t be able to generate scores if they tried to put the ball inside 50 properly and put no energy into it, instead just getting the ball in however if they happened to be in possession, and then shifting all their energy to defending from the arc back. Despite actually a million intercept possessions Freo couldn’t get any ball movement going at all, partially self inflicted but largely due to a very disciplined effort from the Saints.

Horrible to watch yet admirable and winning football. RTB’s prints all over it.

[Curly5]

I think we will break them. I see us as flat trackers. If a side brings skill + intensity we are cooked but otherwise we are fine. Think we will smash a lot of sides who aren't very good but uncompetitive when a gun side is firing.

I agree with this post but can't Like it as it's too sad :(
I hope we're both proved wrong...

[mjp]

Look at what happened on Saturday. Was anyone surprised?

Umm. I was ultimately surprised yeah. Well, I went in with high hopes.

As I have said, from where I sit a LOT of 'stuff' over the past 12-18 months has been blamed on a few malcontents within the group - in particular the fracturing of the relationship between Hunter and the rest of the group. So I had hoped that with his exit and all the reports over the break about the esprit d'corps of the group, well, things would be better and we would show a bit of resilience.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying btw - but when you concede 5x goals for just 17 possessions, well, that isn't about personnel...that's about effort, focus and a willingness to get your hands dirty.

[GVGjr]

Umm. I was ultimately surprised yeah. Well, I went in with high hopes.

As I have said, from where I sit a LOT of 'stuff' over the past 12-18 months has been blamed on a few malcontents within the group - in particular the fracturing of the relationship between Hunter and the rest of the group. So I had hoped that with his exit and all the reports over the break about the esprit d'corps of the group, well, things would be better and we would show a bit of resilience.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying btw - but when you concede 5x goals for just 17 possessions, well, that isn't about personnel...that's about effort, focus and a willingness to get your hands dirty.

I believe you can influence the effort players bring but you have to be prepared to make some big calls at the selection table and I don't think we've been particularly strong in that area.

[Rocco Jones]

I believe you can influence the effort players bring but you have to be prepared to make some big calls at the selection table and I don't think we've been particularly strong in that area.

I feel Bevo/MC are extremely strong on 'effort' type selections when it comes to filling out the side, however if you're a gun etc, you are not getting dropped.

[Mantis]

I feel Bevo/MC are extremely strong on 'effort' type selections when it comes to filling out the side, however if you're a gun etc, you are not getting dropped.

When you look at the output in terms of possessions from our ''guns'' who mostly reside in the midfield from the weekends game you'd struggle to have an issue:

Macrae - 33
Libba - 32
Treloar - 31
Smith - 27
Bont - 25

Even the players we want to get the ball in the back half had heaps or enough of it:

Daniel - 29
Richards - 27
Dale - 19

So who do you drop from this group?

[Rocco Jones]

When you look at the output in terms of possessions from our ''guns'' who mostly reside in the midfield from the weekends game you'd struggle to have an issue:

Macrae - 33
Libba - 32
Treloar - 31
Smith - 27
Bont - 25

Even the players we want to get the ball in the back half had heaps or enough of it:

Daniel - 29
Richards - 27
Dale - 19

So who do you drop from this group?

I worded my post poorly. My point wasn't so much about dropping gun players but that our MC/Bevo seem to value effort/team first type guys at the selection table when it comes to filling out the 22.

In terms of who we drop, I do not think we have got the value we'd expect from Macrae and Daniel last year and Round 1. I am not saying we drop them, I am not even saying it's their fault, maybe it's instructions or needing different roles. Overall, the issue isn't about individuals and lack of effort, but a collective thing. I just find it frustratingly ironic that we seem to place such an emphasis on being workmanlike when trying to break into the side, yet the team doesn't feel workman like at all.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

When you look at the output in terms of possessions from our ''guns'' who mostly reside in the midfield from the weekends game you'd struggle to have an issue:

Macrae - 33
Libba - 32
Treloar - 31
Smith - 27
Bont - 25

Even the players we want to get the ball in the back half had heaps or enough of it:

Daniel - 29
Richards - 27
Dale - 19

So who do you drop from this group?

I'd consider dropping both Macrae and Daniel.

I'd have been in favour of trading both at the end of last year, or end of this year if a good deal was available.

For all their pros, Macrae cannot play any other position on the ground. He's slow and I think his foot skills have dropped remarkably. When we play against dynamic sides (of which Melbourne are), it's really telling.

If Daniel can't hit targets, he's in real trouble. He was awful last year and that carried into last week. I've been a big fan but I'm concerned, he isn't in the side to defend.

[1eyedog]

In his last 8 games last season English averaged 13 possessions per game. The same as Sweet got against Collingwood.

But yes, I understand that not all 13s are equal.

And English’s 11 in round 20 was a thousand times better than Sweet’s 11 four weeks earlier. Maths is funny that way.

And English combined his with 25 hitouts which were clearly a million times better than Sweets 26.

English is our champion and Sweet is our dinosaur, fortunately language doesn’t follow rules like mathematics.


I ‘m not criticising English and if I had to choose between them I would take English every time. But to get the most successful team I would often have both. We have squandered opportunities by playing favourites for too long.

Look at what happened on Saturday. Was anyone surprised?

You've just used two examples. That sample size is too small. I know he's only played 11 games but let's be honest he has shown very little outside of taps to advantage. English offers way more flexibility and everyone knows it.

Would you drop English for Sweet because there is no way Sweet provides anywhere near the return we need if he's not rucking. Fact of the matter is regardless how much you 'Schache up his stats' Sweet is not going to be played in front of English and we know he can't play in the same side. His only hope is if English gets injured and I'm fine with that.

We've invested way too much so now need to be responsible for the decision.

[GVGjr]

My gut feel based on training today is that Jones will be available for selection and we just have to work out if we want to give him a week off.

[Danjul]

When you look at the output in terms of possessions from our ''guns'' who mostly reside in the midfield from the weekends game you'd struggle to have an issue:

Macrae - 33
Libba - 32
Treloar - 31
Smith - 27
Bont - 25

Even the players we want to get the ball in the back half had heaps or enough of it:

Daniel - 29
Richards - 27
Dale - 19

So who do you drop from this group?

I wouldn’t consider dropping any of them. Not for one second.

The Bont had 25 possessions but he was rarely in a position to kick it properly. And we all know what a superb kick he is. But his game couldn’t flow. He was forced to handball instead.

Treloar ditto. As you say, 31 possessions. But less than one third were kicks.

Macrae ditto. 33 possessions but only one third were kicks.

So between just these three players, who we expect to be the engine room, we got 50 handballs. That doesn’t generate momentum, it kills it.

Melbourne’s winning strategy is based on kicking to a teammate who has run into the open 35-40 metres ahead. For example, Tomlinson and Pickett both had 19 possessions. And both had 15 relatively pressure free kicks.

Those two players combined to have more kicks than Bont, Macrae and Treloar combined. You are heading for trouble if you let that continue.


Our players were not soft, tuned out or lazy. They were busy and committed. But In a losing structure. One that would look fine against the Saints but not against quality like Melbourne who have worked us out.

[EasternWest]

My gut feel based on training today is that Jones will be available for selection and we just have to work out if we want to give him a week off.

Which Jones?

[Danjul]

You've just used two examples. That sample size is too small. I know he's only played 11 games but let's be honest he has shown very little outside of taps to advantage. English offers way more flexibility and everyone knows it.

Would you drop English for Sweet because there is no way Sweet provides anywhere near the return we need if he's not rucking. Fact of the matter is regardless how much you 'Schache up his stats' Sweet is not going to be played in front of English and we know he can't play in the same side. His only hope is if English gets injured and I'm fine with that.

We've invested way too much so now need to be responsible for the decision.

I have never said Sweet is better than English so your comment is not factually based. I said I would select English over Sweet every time.

But I wouldn’t expect Sweet to have as little impact as an injured Lobb. And the selectors knew that there was a problem. Let’s repeat that. The selectors knew Lobb had a problem. They took an unnecessary gamble and failed the supporters, the team and the club.

Lobb contributed nothing. He was simply a waste of space. And that’s simply stating a fact. He should not have been selected in these circumstances. I don’t blame him in any way. But we have seen this type of selection nonsense repeatedly.

I am happy for you to see Lobb’s presence as a positive on Saturday night but I find your comment is without merit.

Sweet would have been able to take a significant load off English, gain important experience and certainly contribute something. Another wasted opportunity.

We failed to get the points, but we should not have been beaten by anything near 50 points. And with Sweet playing I suspect that would have been the case.

[GVGjr]

Which Jones?

Liam

[EasternWest]

Liam

Good but also damn I wanna see Artie.

[1eyedog]

I have never said Sweet is better than English so your comment is not factually based. I said I would select English over Sweet every time.

But I wouldn’t expect Sweet to have as little impact as an injured Lobb. And the selectors knew that there was a problem. Let’s repeat that. The selectors knew Lobb had a problem. They took an unnecessary gamble and failed the supporters, the team and the club.

Lobb contributed nothing. He was simply a waste of space. And that’s simply stating a fact. He should not have been selected in these circumstances. I don’t blame him in any way. But we have seen this type of selection nonsense repeatedly.

I am happy for you to see Lobb’s presence as a positive on Saturday night but I find your comment is without merit.

Sweet would have been able to take a significant load off English, gain important experience and certainly contribute something. Another wasted opportunity.

We failed to get the points, but we should not have been beaten by anything near 50 points. And with Sweet playing I suspect that would have been the case.

Sweet is not playing in the same side as English so it's a moot point! He can't play in the same side as English because we've invested way too much in English as the primary ruck and we can't justify Sweet sucking up a spot only to ruck 20% of the game. He simply has zero hurt factor as a forward and will be a liability.

Lobb was 100% a liability on Saturday night but I know he's a better forward than Sweet and I don't need Sweet to add to his 11 games to confirm this.

[GVGjr]

Good but also damn I wanna see Artie.

He's a terrific young fellow, first onto the track with the footy in hand and always having a laugh with people.
I think he would have played R1 if he was fit. His progress from mid Jan was impressive.

[Danjul]

Sweet is not playing in the same side as English so it's a moot point! He can't play in the same side as English because we've invested way too much in English as the primary ruck and we can't justify Sweet sucking up a spot only to ruck 20% of the game. He simply has zero hurt factor as a forward and will be a liability.

Lobb was 100% a liability on Saturday night but I know he's a better forward than Sweet and I don't need Sweet to add to his 11 games to confirm this.

An injured Lobb who was a 100% liability was a worse selection than everyone. Melbourne fielded 22 fit players and we had selectors who lost their minds at 21.

We knew something was wrong when Naughton was rucking. And as usual he was put off his game by it. Everyone was thrown off balance. The whole forward line contributed 2? goals. So much for hurt factor. There’s a good chance Sweet could have kicked more goals than we actually got from 5 of those played if he had simply stood there by himself.

We lost the 2021 Grand Final because of bizarre selection and coaching decisions during the last part of the season left us 0.1% outside the final four. Well, selecting Lobb has cost us more than that already.

Unfortunately, falling on one’s sword went out with the last Samurai. I, for one, think it is time for a comeback with this mob.

[bornadog]

My gut feel based on training today is that Jones will be available for selection and we just have to work out if we want to give him a week off.

Did he train today

Edit: Trained lightly but didnot compete

[GVGjr]

Did he train today

Edit: Trained lightly but didnot compete

Yes and he moved okay but typical protocol of how they treat injured players after a knock and they remain in the non contact group.

[Bullies]

I'd consider dropping both Macrae and Daniel.

I'd have been in favour of trading both at the end of last year, or end of this year if a good deal was available.

For all their pros, Macrae cannot play any other position on the ground. He's slow and I think his foot skills have dropped remarkably. When we play against dynamic sides (of which Melbourne are), it's really telling.

If Daniel can't hit targets, he's in real trouble. He was awful last year and that carried into last week. I've been a big fan but I'm concerned, he isn't in the side to defend. I would play Daniel as a samll forward until we get back (Jones/Weightman/Clarke). He knows how to read the game and it is something we lack at the moment. As we know he is very smart with ball in hand and has good goal sense.

[Sedat]

An injured Lobb who was a 100% liability was a worse selection than everyone. Melbourne fielded 22 fit players and we had selectors who lost their minds at 21.

We knew something was wrong when Naughton was rucking. And as usual he was put off his game by it. Everyone was thrown off balance. The whole forward line contributed 2? goals. So much for hurt factor. There???s a good chance Sweet could have kicked more goals than we actually got from 5 of those played if he had simply stood there by himself.

We lost the 2021 Grand Final because of bizarre selection and coaching decisions during the last part of the season left us 0.1% outside the final four. Well, selecting Lobb has cost us more than that already.

Unfortunately, falling on one???s sword went out with the last Samurai. I, for one, think it is time for a comeback with this mob.
Now that we know Lobb went into R1 under an injury cloud that clearly hampered him in game, and now requires immediate surgery, it was a very poor match committee decision - I don't think anybody could dispute that.

I disagree that we lost the 2021 GF because of bizarre selections in the last 4 rounds of H&A. We were 19 points up in the GF with about 37 minutes of playing time left, had just kicked 8 of the last 9 goals and Melbourne were freezing cold, looked clueless for a quarter and a half, and didn't look like scoring in that stretch. Put simply, we gave a sucker an even break, and that sucker is now emboldened against us in every subsequent match and own our sorry ass. We could have struck a mortal blow to the confidence and psyche of a fellow contender as well as give the rest of the competition shivers about our air of invincibility - imagine the narrative post GF about our travels around Australia, our inability to leave our hotel rooms, being under strict (and in hindsight, utterly ridiculous) quarantine and yet still overcoming all obstacles to win another flag again from outside top 4. Instead, we showed our soft underbelly (that has been ruthlessly exposed by the better teams in the last 12 months), and instead it is Melbourne who we gve a leg-up to and who now have that air of invincibility.

[1eyedog]

I would play Daniel as a samll forward until we get back (Jones/Weightman/Clarke). He knows how to read the game and it is something we lack at the moment. As we know he is very smart with ball in hand and has good goal sense.

After last week I would definately play Daniel forward of the ball.

[1eyedog]

Now that we know Lobb went into R1 under an injury cloud that clearly hampered him in game, and now requires immediate surgery, it was a very poor match committee decision - I don't think anybody could dispute that.

I disagree that we lost the 2021 GF because of bizarre selections in the last 4 rounds of H&A. We were 19 points up in the GF with about 37 minutes of playing time left, had just kicked 8 of the last 9 goals and Melbourne were freezing cold, looked clueless for a quarter and a half, and didn't look like scoring in that stretch. Put simply, we gave a sucker an even break, and that sucker is now emboldened against us in every subsequent match and own our sorry ass. We could have struck a mortal blow to the confidence and psyche of a fellow contender as well as give the rest of the competition shivers about our air of invincibility - imagine the narrative post GF about our travels around Australia, our inability to leave our hotel rooms, being under strict (and in hindsight, utterly ridiculous) quarantine and yet still overcoming all obstacles to win another flag again from outside top 4. Instead, we showed our soft underbelly (that has been ruthlessly exposed by the better teams in the last 12 months), and instead it is Melbourne who we gve a leg-up to and who now have that air of invincibility.

Yep we could have become absolute beasts and feasted off our reputation alone for all of 2022. It was our moment in the sun and we blew it.

[bornadog]

After last week I would definately play Daniel forward of the ball.

Me too. Let Dale, Ed and Duryea take on the opposition smalls.

[1eyedog]

Me too. Let Dale, Ed and Duryea take on the opposition smalls.

Our best small / mediums are all behind the ball. We need a quality small forward of centre when Weightman isn't playing.

[Curly5]

Is Gardner likely? If not, how far away is he from a return?

[bornadog]

Is Gardner likely? If not, how far away is he from a return?

Check the injury thread here (https://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?22223-Injury-List-2023/page5) ;)

Injury List

Liam Jones (neck): test
Rory Lobb (ankle): TBC
Arthur Jones (groin): 1-2 weeks
Ryan Gardner (elbow): 1-2 weeks
Tim O?€™Brien (hamstring): 1-2 weeks
Cody Weightman (groin): 3-5 weeks
Laith Vandermeer (leg): 4-5 weeks
Roarke Smith (foot): 4-5 weeks
Dom Bedendo (groin): Indefinite

[Mantis]

Me too. Let Dale, Ed and Duryea take on the opposition smalls.

And when those guys are taking a break?

And given St.Kilda aren’t flush with tall forwards do we really need to play all of Jones, Keath & Bruce?

[bornadog]

And when those guys are taking a break?

And given St.Kilda aren’t flush with tall forwards do we really need to play all of Jones, Keath & Bruce?

Jones may not play anyhow.

[Rocco Jones]

And when those guys are taking a break?

And given St.Kilda aren’t flush with tall forwards do we really need to play all of Jones, Keath & Bruce?

I'd consider not playing Keath even if Jones is out. The Saints heaps of marks and disposals to opposition backline. As you mention, they are not tall and they are also pretty inexperienced. Looking at pre-season game they had too, seems like they are conceding a bit of space in their i50 once they've conceded a mark and defending higher up.

Very hard to comment on the VFL guys with the lack of coverage we get from the club, but all things considered, I would prioritise intercept marking and disposal much higher than strength/size/1:1 ability.

Would like to see Cleary get a game but once again, no idea how he is going at all.

[GVGjr]

Is Gardner likely? If not, how far away is he from a return?

I think Gards is really close once the brace comes off his arm. He's been doing a lot of training even with it own but not contact work.

[F'scary]

Keath and JUH to the magoos, they can take JJ and Hannan with them. Assuming Jones is injured. Williams to sub

In: Sweet, West, McLean, Garcia, Khamis and Cleary.

Naughton to chf, English ff / ruck. Daniel fp. Darcy chb.

[chef]

Treloar out injured and JJ dumped apparently. Jones to play.

[mjp]

Treloar out injured and JJ dumped apparently. Jones to play.

Can we please end all the experimenting with JJ as anything other than a running defender?

It. Is. Not. Working.

I actually don't care how well he plays in match sim against 2nd tier defenders...against AFL defenders he is not up to it. AS an AFL defender he has proven to be a very useful player....

[chef]

IN: Hayden Crozier, Rhylee West, Riley Garcia

OUT: Rory Lobb (ankle), Adam Treloar (hamstring), Jason Johannisen (omitted), Mitch Hannan (om
itted)

[chef]

I love those changes.

[mjp]

IN: Hayden Crozier, Rhylee West, Riley Garcia

OUT: Rory Lobb (ankle), Adam Treloar (hamstring), Jason Johannisen (omitted), Mitch Hannan (om
itted)

How are there 4x outs and 3x ins?

[Mofra]

How are there 4x outs and 3x ins?
McLean medi-sub holds his spot

[Axe Man]

West, Garcia and McLean for Hannan, JJ and Treloar makes some sense as mid/forwards, but Crozier for Lobb is interesting. Suggests a restructure. Will Bruce play back or forward?

[bornadog]

ROUND 2 TEAM
Western Bulldogs v St Kilda
Saturday, 25 March, 7.25pm AEDT
Marvel Stadium

B: Taylor Duryea, Liam Jones, Hayden Crozier
HB: Bailey Dale, Alex Keath, Ed Richards
C: Bailey Williams, Marcus Bontempelli, Oskar Baker
HF: Bailey Smith, Sam Darcy, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan
F: Anthony Scott, Aaron Naughton, Rhylee West
R: Tim English, Tom Liberatore, Jack Macrae
Int: Caleb Daniel, Toby McLean, Josh Bruce, Riley Garcia
Emerg: Buku Khamis, Robbie McComb, Lachlan McNeil, Jordon Sweet

IN: Hayden Crozier, Rhylee West, Riley Garcia
OUT: Rory Lobb (ankle), Adam Treloar (hamstring), Jason Johannisen (omitted), Mitch Hannan (omitted)

[bornadog]

Happy with the changes except Treloar

[ReLoad]

I’m glad Jones is ok!

Sone time under the copper pyramid with crystals must have done him a world of good.

[mjp]

I’m glad Jones is ok!

Sone time under the copper pyramid with crystals must have done him a world of good.

Well, you know Bevo is our coach right?

Until he runs out there....

[WBFC4FFC]

Happy with the changes except Treloar

Ex-Roarke Smith being available, a bit more hardness and toughness into the side.

[GVGjr]

I love those changes.

It's strange I really like Treloar and Lobb but the team doesn't look too bad and you might argue we look better balanced than last week.

[GVGjr]

Well, you know Bevo is our coach right?

Until he runs out there....

I'm going to check him closely tomorrow. :)

[GVGjr]

Bruce will be the support ruckman? He might play a bit everywhere.

[MrMahatma]

Looks like a bit more “role” players perhaps. Shame about Adz. That’s the first I’ve heard he had an injury.

That’s a few best 22 out now.

[The Underdog]

Ex-Roarke Smith being available, a bit more hardness and toughness into the side.

Are we almost completely devoid of pace though?

[G-Mo77]

Looks like a bit more “role” players perhaps. Shame about Adz. That’s the first I’ve heard he had an injury.

That’s a few best 22 out now.

I saw a red cross next to his name on one of the apps Saturday night. I was that pissy after the match I didn't follow it up but he played the games out to my knowledge. Who'd know with them though.

[bornadog]

I saw a red cross next to his name on one of the apps Saturday night. I was that pissy after the match I didn't follow it up but he played the games out to my knowledge. Who'd know with them though.

Apparently came off with about 5 min to go

[Happy Days]

It's strange I really like Treloar and Lobb but the team doesn't look too bad and you might argue we look better balanced than last week.

The balance is better but to win a game tomorrow those aren’t the outs to fix the balance.

[jeemak]

How many underdone players did we go in with last week?

[GVGjr]

How many underdone players did we go in with last week?

Probably just Lobb.

[G-Mo77]

Cordy to kick 3 goals this week. Book it. ;)

[Go_Dogs]

Lots of inside midfielders.

Not expecting a high quality affair. But at least we should win.

[Grantysghost]

Cordy to kick 3 goals this week. Book it. ;)

My eye is going to be trained on finding out who he didn't like.
It will probably be evident.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Hopefully both West and Garcia bring their energy.

Shame about Treloar who actually played pretty well v Melbourne. His body is a concern..

I kind of agree with mjp re JJ. He's had some good games as a forward, ironically a couple finals, but on the whole he just hasn't delivered. If we're playing 3 talls we need pressure and he just doesn't bring that. I'd be inclined to tell him it's back to the future - half back and move Daniel further up the ground.

I don't/can't see how Hannan gets back in. Time to put energy into West, Garcia and Bedendo when he's ready.

[GVGjr]

Will the 5 day turnaround play into calculations of the final team line up?

[soupman]

Apparently came off with about 5 min to go

Didn't bother to include it in our injury report for the week then.

[jeemak]

Probably just Lobb.

Did Hannan, JJ and Treloar do enough work to be effective? Was Duryea ready to go?

I think with our match schedule we had to get everything perfect and it didn't appear that we did with how we faded out.

[GVGjr]

Did Hannan, JJ and Treloar do enough work to be effective? Was Duryea ready to go?

I think with our match schedule we had to get everything perfect and it didn't appear that we did with how we faded out.

Based on the training I've seen I'd say yes but perfection is exceptionally hard to achieve.

[Scorlibo]

I'm a fan of Luke Cleary and have been surprised with how far off the radar he's been early this season. He was probably the best out of the seconds' defence in the intra club, but didn't get a run on in the North praccy match and not sighted in the emergencies for either of the first two games. I wonder what the coaches are asking him to work on?

[GVGjr]

I'm a fan of Luke Cleary and have been surprised with how far off the radar he's been early this season. He was probably the best out of the seconds' defence in the intra club, but didn't get a run on in the North praccy match and not sighted in the emergencies for either of the first two games. I wonder what the coaches are asking him to work on?

To me it is a little surprising he hasn't been named in the bench so far but I'm confident he is progressing well.

[D Mitchell]

Ironically, the named full forward line consists of the 3 most defense-oriented, pressure players in the team.

[Grantysghost]

I'm a fan of Luke Cleary and have been surprised with how far off the radar he's been early this season. He was probably the best out of the seconds' defence in the intra club, but didn't get a run on in the North praccy match and not sighted in the emergencies for either of the first two games. I wonder what the coaches are asking him to work on?

Agree he looks really neat doesn't he. Hopefully he gets a decent crack at it soon.

[bornadog]

Did Hannan, JJ and Treloar do enough work to be effective? Was Duryea ready to go?

I think with our match schedule we had to get everything perfect and it didn't appear that we did with how we faded out.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrivW5HaAAM_1Ti?format=jpg&name=large

[F'scary]

This week, OzCar spins his retreads on the Marvel track.

[josie]

I'm a fan of Luke Cleary and have been surprised with how far off the radar he's been early this season. He was probably the best out of the seconds' defence in the intra club, but didn't get a run on in the North praccy match and not sighted in the emergencies for either of the first two games. I wonder what the coaches are asking him to work on?

An injury to Duryea or Dale or Richards and he’s in. I agree he has looked really composed. His disposal at vfl level has always impressed me. Now he is increasing his possession numbers.

[1eyedog]

Can we please end all the experimenting with JJ as anything other than a running defender?

It. Is. Not. Working.

I actually don't care how well he plays in match sim against 2nd tier defenders...against AFL defenders he is not up to it. AS an AFL defender he has proven to be a very useful player....

Probably underdone and shouldn't have been played. Was one of our better players as a forward in the 2021 finals series. I understand why we've persisted we want clean ball users off half back and he's been overtaken.

If we refuse to play Daniel up the ground where does he play?

[bornadog]

Probably underdone and shouldn't have been played. Was one of our better players as a forward in the 2021 finals series. I understand why we've persisted we want clean ball users off half back and he's been overtaken.

If we refuse to play Daniel up the ground where does he play?

In the Melbourne game we switched him to half back flank, but didn't do much. I think it was a gamble that didn't pay off last week and he came in early.

[The bulldog tragician]

In the Melbourne game we switched him to half back flank, but didn't do much. I think it was a gamble that didn't pay off last week and he came in early.

I thought he looked overweight last year, perhaps the white jumpers don’t flatter - your thoughts BAd;)

[bornadog]

I thought he looked overweight last year, perhaps the white jumpers don’t flatter - your thoughts BAd;)

Not sure about his weight, I don't usually take much notice :D

[josie]

I thought he looked overweight last year, perhaps the white jumpers don’t flatter - your thoughts BAd;)

I think he (JJ) looks a bit overweight this year too.

[soupman]

I think he just stands weird. Tiny bum plus stands with a bit of paunch which makes him look funny.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Interesting to hear Bevo state that JJ will play half back at state level, with the idea of him playing back if/when he comes back into the AFL side.

I think for where things sit, going forward, that's the best option for JJ.

[bornadog]

Interesting to hear Bevo state that JJ will play half back at state level, with the idea of him playing back if/when he comes back into the AFL side.

I think for where things sit, going forward, that's the best option for JJ.
Bevo being reading WOOF :)

[Grantysghost]

Bevo being reading WOOF :)

Naughton back next.

[bornadog]

Naughton back next.

Haven't heard that one on WOOF ;)

[Dogs 24/7]

Not sure about his weight, I don't usually take much notice :D

There was a guy at training today who referred to some of the players as fat ****ers and I assumed it was you.

[jeemak]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrivW5HaAAM_1Ti?format=jpg&name=large

Yes - but he pinged a hammy round one after a limited preseason schedule. I shouldn't have put him in the ineffective basket, as he was clearly one of our best but it doesn't change that he may have been lacking conditioning. If you go back a month or so you'll recall that I thought he could compete at the level but I worried that due to his preparation he'd be exposed to soft tissue injuries early on.

[G-Mo77]

Apparently English is under an injury cloud and could miss.

[GVGjr]

Apparently English is under an injury cloud and could miss.

He did train lightly. More handballs and general kicking.

[SquirrelGrip]

Apparently English is under an injury cloud and could miss.

Bevo addressed this is in his press conference. Tim rolled an ankle at training earlier in the week but should be fine for tomorrow.

[G-Mo77]

Bevo addressed this is in his press conference. Tim rolled an ankle at training earlier in the week but should be fine for tomorrow.

Phew!

[azabob]

I'm a fan of Luke Cleary and have been surprised with how far off the radar he's been early this season. He was probably the best out of the seconds' defence in the intra club, but didn't get a run on in the North praccy match and not sighted in the emergencies for either of the first two games. I wonder what the coaches are asking him to work on?

It seems Crozier was selected ahead of him again.

My take our defensive game is still rubbish and we are tying to have as much experience in the back end as possible.

[DOG GOD]

Bevo addressed this is in his press conference. Tim rolled an ankle at training earlier in the week but should be fine for tomorrow.

With Bevo we wont know til they run out. Sweet is an emergency.

[kruder]

Interesting admission from Bevo that JJ was underdone last week, as we discussed during the week I reckon we went in with quite a few underdone. Worth noting that he said JJ would be more than likely played back all things being equal.

He also see's Garcia as a midfielder.

[bornadog]

Interesting admission from Bevo that JJ was underdone last week, as we discussed during the week I reckon we went in with quite a few underdone. Worth noting that he said JJ would be more than likely played back all things being equal.

He also see's Garcia as a midfielder.

Sounds like JJ will be backup only

[Mavericks]

With only a 5 day break if English is not 100% fit I would rest him and play Sweet. If we cannot best a half strength Saints team who already had a crap list list without Tim then our season is shot. I would expect a 10 goal win either way. We have form in belting struggling teams and the struggling against well coached competitive teams.

[GVGjr]

With only a 5 day break if English is not 100% fit I would rest him and play Sweet. If we cannot best a half strength Saints team who already had a crap list list without Tim then our season is shot. I would expect a 10 goal win either way. We have form in belting struggling teams and the struggling against well coached competitive teams.

I don't know if I would rest him as Marshall is a significant opponent for us to counter but could there be a benefit in playing Sweet in tandem with him and reducing his time in the ruck.