3 things learned from Rd1 2023

[GVGjr]

You should all be aware of how this works.
Please list 3 things you have learned from our round one encounter against Melbourne.

[GVGjr]

Lets hear them.

[derb]

We re-signed Beveridge too early.

Our midfield bar Libba do not have a defensive side.

We were told our midfield would be working on kicking to the advantage of our forwards during the pre-season. Either it didn't happent or the players are flat ignoring the coaches. We have reverted back to bombing it on Naughton's head which works about 5% of the time.

[GVGjr]

We re-signed Beveridge too early.

Our midfield bar Libba do not have a defensive side.

We were told our midfield would be working on kicking to the advantage of our forwards during the pre-season. Either it didn't happent or the players are flat ignoring the coaches. We have reverted back to bombing it on Naughton's head which works about 5% of the time.

It's a shocking loss no doubt but we have to maintain the faith. As for Bevo he's not going anywhere and lets see what changes he might make or if he sticks with the original plan.

[Hot_Doggies]

Not all negative, at this stage we have pick one and two in the draft…..

[Grantysghost]

Not all negative, at this stage we have pick one and two in the draft…..

The SUPER draft.

[Grantysghost]

1. Four tall forwards is as dumb as it sounded.
2. Our prep wasn't good enough why we didn't play 2 games is a mystery.
3. Our defence has not improved, in fact it appears to have regressed. Keath and Duryea are cooked. Jones I'm worried about. Bruce... He's a forward.

Special mention : our mids are one paced. Watching a few games guys like Rozee, Horne-Francis, LDU, Oliver, Petracca, Pickett all have incredible acceleration and power. Our guys seem stuck in the mud.

MJP said Bont was too big. May be onto something!

[derb]

Our defence is annoying.. is it poor list management or drafting? Surely they could foresee that it was going to be an issue.

[AshMac]

Same old dogs

1. Rushed long bombs into F50 - so much perceived pressure
2. Tackled players constantly getting a handball away
3. Killed on the turnover

[The Bulldogs Bite]

1. Nothing has improved. It's one game, but the same issues remain - killed in transition, unable to stop momentum, can't convert, poor turnovers. My expectations for this season are at least heavily tempered.

2. Keath is a huge concern. Lost, slow, sloppy, really bad. Thought he might be able to bounce back after last year and getting in a good preseason, but he just looks like somebody who should have retired. A massive fall from 2 seasons ago.

3. Melbourne are the best in it.

[westbulldog]

1. If we don't make several changes to send a message after that pathetic effort then we may as well forget 2023.
2. We have said for years we need a specialist goalkicking coach, we still do.
3. Other than Libba our mids do not defend well enough.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Imagine only playing one preseason game and rolling into round 1 dishing that up. The same old problems with our inability to arrest momentum was there, but we were also kicking sacks of potatoes all night. Looked critically off the pace of the game.

[angelopetraglia]

Our defence is annoying.. is it poor list management or drafting? Surely they could foresee that it was going to be an issue.

I don't think you are wrong. But I don't think our defense was the main issue tonight. Most of those turnover goals were impossible to defend.

[AshMac]

I don't think you are wrong. But I don't think our defense was the main issue tonight. Most of those turnover goals were impossible to defend.

I agree. The problem is much further up the ground. There were several instances where we intercepted their kicks and either over hand balled or went sideways. They always had an overlap runner and always took the direct route to goal - mostly uncontested.

[Mutz]

1. Four tall forwards is as dumb as it sounded.
2. Our prep wasn't good enough why we didn't play 2 games is a mystery.
3. Our defence has not improved, in fact it appears to have regressed. Keath and Duryea are cooked. Jones I'm worried about. Bruce... He's a forward.

Actually, I was pleasantly surprised that Bruce held as many marks as he did. Seemed more relaxed playing D.

[anfo27]

1. We haven't done a thing over pre-season to correct our inability to defend as a team.

2. 1 practice game was a dumb idea cause we played like it was another practice game

3. Has bevo got new chompers?

[Boots]

Actually, I was pleasantly surprised that Bruce held as many marks as he did. Seemed more relaxed playing D.

Yeah and it's harsh on Duryea, he saved our bacon a few times too.

My three:

1) our midfield is not as good as we think it is; even before we lost Dunkley it was slowing down and showing cracks.
2) I'm convinced; we should move Naughton back to defence. It will break the midfield's reliance on dropping it on his head, save us from his bad goal kicking, and let the forward line grow some chemistry with the midfield in his absence. Also, imagine him muscling people out of the way like Stephen May does.
3) We might have traded away too many good players. No single loss was impossible to cover, but wow collectively we've lost too much. It's great we have a clean cultural slate now, but at what cost?

[Scorlibo]

1. There are two ways to play football: the easy way and the hard way. Melbourne play the easy way, and we play the hard way. Melbourne wait for opportunities and then burst into top gear when one comes. We labour to 'create' opportunities out of nothing, which mostly ends in a chaos kick forward. Melbourne win clean centre clearances, when there's no congestion and even numbers. We win stoppage clearances, when there's congestion and Jake Lever waiting behind the ball for that inevitable chaos kick. Maximum frustration as a supporter, can only imagine it's an even worse feeling on the field.

2. There's no point being tall if you don't have the wheels or smarts to get to the drop of the ball. Of course it was terrible delivery for our four headed monster, but there were more than a few sky balls that should have been contested, if only to be spoiled to ground. Naughton was Naughton, and should have kicked three. Lobb, Darcy and JUH were totally ineffective.

3. There is a very large chasm right now between our best 10 or so players and the rest. Tonight we had some good players below their best or committing poor errors (Dale, Daniel come to mind), some good players play very well (Richards, English), yet basically no lesser lights exceeded expectations. We can't progress so long as the last 10 players selected are just making up the numbers.

[Grantysghost]

1. We haven't done a thing over pre-season to correct our inability to defend as a team.

2. 1 practice game was a dumb idea cause we played like it was another practice game

3. Has bevo got new chompers?

Not that I've noticed.

[azabob]

Not that I've noticed.

If you had’ve im sure you would have started a thread on it.

[chef]

1. We still prefer to give up than fight it out when things get tough.
2. Four tall forwards sounded crazy in theory and was diabolical in practice. Never again please.
3. Might be time to try Daniel further up the ground.

[Grantysghost]

If you had’ve im sure you would have started a thread on it.

Now there's an idea!

[MrMahatma]

1. We are officially the property of the Melb footy club. They would love playing against us. Just like the Cats over the last decade, I can’t see us taking too many Ws from the Dees in the coming years.
2. I can’t recall seeing so many “out of sorts” errors. Baker - Literally handballing to the opposition, Darcy in the goal square, Dale and Daniel turn over kings, Jones looked all at sea… that felt like either as bad as we could possibly play, or we’re a team in significant decline cause so many of our team just seemed past it or not up to it.
3. I know you always see what you’re looking for, but I did notice on a number of occasions how Macrae and Treloar would give up rather than chase. Kind of like the whole team essentially gave up in the last.

[Bullies]

1. Melbourne looked so much fitter than us. We looked spent early on with guys pulling on their jumpers whereas Melbourne were up and about. Watching from Level 4 you could see it open as they ran in waves and numbers and we just didn't chase or pressure. You expect more from Smith,Treloar and Macrae in the middle in regards to pressure and chase.

2. We have too many "list cloggers". When we won the flag our bottom 6 basically won it for us. Our bottom 6 at the moment would not be much better than North's.

3. I wasn't sold on Lobbe to begin with. Had watched him for 10 years at GWS and Freo and wondered what he offered. It might mean that he is the level of player we can attract as we can't compete with the big boys when the elite players are out of contract. You would expect so much more at $600k+ but not sure we are going to get it. Hope to be proven wrong.

4. I think we have seen enough of Hannan to know that what he does in the VFL he can't do with the big boys. Why do we give such long contracts to these type of players - Crozier, Hannan,O'Brien and now Baker?

[BornInDroopSt'54]

1 we are not as good as I thought we were.
2 Melbourne and probably a couple of others have us covered
3 The end of an era: '16 team will not win another prem, rather I will hope the young guys carry us to one before I die.

[Funke disco]

1. We have few players that can kick into our forward 50 well under pressure. We may get a win vs St Kilda but against the better teams our poor kicking stands out.
2. Our old strength in midfield is no longer able to dominate the opposition (especially the better ones) leaving our defense too much work to do.
3. Plan A did not work, we spent 6 months working on something that failed catastrophically in round 1. It reminds me of that Warren Buffet saying in that "only when the tide goes out do you discover who has been swimming naked"

[meenies]

1. CD should not play down back when we play high pressure sides (Melb, Geel, Rich, Colling).
2. We need to field mid rotations A and B of similar quality and different skills. Maybe an offensive and defensive team. Experiment with this over the next few weeks. In particular field fresh blood in there. Teams know how to constantly beat Macrae, Smith and Bont now. Add in CD, West, McComb (let him show us what he can actually do), Garcia, McLean, Cody. Last night showed we have absolutely nothing to lose.
3. My guess is Lobb is carrying some injury. More than that rolled ankle that sent him straight off for an X-ray during a match sim. Thus not used much in ruck and limited time in some recent training sessions. Give him time to settle. I have faith it will all click.

[macca]

1. the gap between our good and bad is widening. When teams get a 5min run and dominate, we need to find a way to stay in the game. The 2016 team would not have let this happened.

I really don't know what JJ or Hannan offer when the game plan is not working. Could have tried Lobb in the ruck to get him into the game.

2. Where is the forward line pressure? Melbourne killed us on the rebound. Its so predictable, opposition teams may as well let us win the centre bounce clearance and wait for the skill error for the turnover. As mentioned by a few posters, our field kicking is terrible

3. Goal kicking , has not improved.

4. mid gets smashed by power athletes like Petracca and Oliver


Its the same old issues rearing its head against good teams

I am starting to be concerned now some of the younger players in the 21-24 bracket are not emerging to take these positions: Bedendo, West, Garcia , McNeil, Vanders. Some of them may be injured. like Weightman and Gardner but the depth is lacking. Gee, Young would have been handy tonight when Liam Jones went down. Instead we are using Bruce in defense.

My question is where will our improvement come from? Sydney have an amazing ability to grow and play their younger players: Gulden, Warner, McCartin x2, MacDonald etc...


Port seem to have another leg now with Horne Francis and Connor Rozzee in the midfield.

[macca]

1. Melbourne looked so much fitter than us. We looked spent early on with guys pulling on their jumpers whereas Melbourne were up and about. Watching from Level 4 you could see it open as they ran in waves and numbers and we just didn't chase or pressure. You expect more from Smith,Treloar and Macrae in the middle in regards to pressure and chase.

2. We have too many "list cloggers". When we won the flag our bottom 6 basically won it for us. Our bottom 6 at the moment would not be much better than North's.

3. I wasn't sold on Lobbe to begin with. Had watched him for 10 years at GWS and Freo and wondered what he offered. It might mean that he is the level of player we can attract as we can't compete with the big boys when the elite players are out of contract. You would expect so much more at $600k+ but not sure we are going to get it. Hope to be proven wrong.

4. I think we have seen enough of Hannan to know that what he does in the VFL he can't do with the big boys. Why do we give such long contracts to these type of players - Crozier, Hannan,O'Brien and now Baker?

Maybe Freo mids have better field kicking and able to kick to leads?

Apart from Naughten ( who is a freak at pack marks) , I don't see anyone else leading. Maybe he just demands the ball all the time with his prescences.

I question our fwd leading patterns and how we setup forward ( hard to say when just watch on TV).

[Mofra]

1. We can play badly and (save for goal kicking) we can still be in the game

2. We haven't improved our goal-kicking. In particular, Bont & Naughton - on the big bucks - missed easy shots on goal

3. Bruce can actually step in and play KPD to a passable level

[anfo27]

Not that I've noticed.

Need Bevo to smile. Had nothing to smile about last night but maybe next week it can be confirmed. I'm confident his upper chompers are new. He looks like Matt Dillon in Something About Mary.

[Grantysghost]

Need Bevo to smile. Had nothing to smile about last night but maybe next week it can be confirmed. I'm confident his upper chompers are new. He looks like Matt Dillon in Something About Mary.

Ha - he's defintely had them done.

I made a thread a while back was taking the mick.

https://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?23263-A-very-Bevo-quandary

Who knows mightve accidently knocked them out in the surf.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Same old dogs

1. Rushed long bombs into F50 - so much perceived pressure
2. Tackled players constantly getting a handball away
3. Killed on the turnover

And poor kicking on Goal.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

1, Our kicking was really poor, it should tidy up in a couple of more weeks (yes we should have played more practice games)

2, We have to many Forwards, everyone thinks they play forward when we get the ball, we need to keep 18 players out of the forward 50 when the ball is in play, Hannan should have played a tagging role on Lever

3, we really missed West and Cody last night - they balance out our side

[anfo27]

Ha - he's defintely had them done.

I made a thread a while back was taking the mick.

https://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?23263-A-very-Bevo-quandary

Who knows mightve accidently knocked them out in the surf.

Lol thanks for the thread. Its confirmed then! Those photo's is all the proof i need, they look terrible. It's like George Costanza wearing a piece, you can spot it a mile away. We need a name change though. Instead of Bevo maybe its Heals? after Matt Dillons character Healy in Something About Mary.
Not sure I could take him seriously if I was a player. Wouldn't be able to keep my eyes off them.

[Grantysghost]

Lol thanks for the thread. Its confirmed then! Those photo's is all the proof i need, they look terrible. It's like George Costanza wearing a piece, you can spot it a mile away. We need a name change though. Instead of Bevo maybe its Heals? after Matt Dillons character Healy in Something About Mary.
Not sure I could take him seriously if I was a player. Wouldn't be able to keep my eyes off them.


If it was me, I'd be sniggering like the Romans when they heard the name "Biggus Dickus" in The Life of Brian.

[Stevo]

Effort is everything and we lack it at times.
Skills by foot are important and we miss too many kicks
We went in too tall and is didn't work.

[Stevo]

1. We have few players that can kick into our forward 50 well under pressure. We may get a win vs St Kilda but against the better teams our poor kicking stands out.
2. Our old strength in midfield is no longer able to dominate the opposition (especially the better ones) leaving our defense too much work to do.
3. Plan A did not work, we spent 6 months working on something that failed catastrophically in round 1. It reminds me of that Warren Buffet saying in that "only when the tide goes out do you discover who has been swimming naked"

Perfectly summed up.

[ratsmac]

1. We aren't nearly as good as I thought we were. I had us finishing top 4 (for no reason other than blind hope) this year but after seeing the same old things that cost us last year still as evident as ever, I worried we won't make the 8.

2. Lobb isn't the answer we were looking for. We needed someone to give Naughts and English a chop out. Well I've seen Schache get dropped after have a better game. Turns out Lobb was carrying an ankle complaint..... well don't ****en play him then

3. I really really really hate Melbourne

[Grantysghost]

I've gpt a 5th learning.

We - as the Footscray/Western Bulldogs are always someones Bunnies.

It was the Cats.
It was the Crows.
It was the Cats AGAIN
Then it was the Aints.
Now.....Its the Demons.

Why can't we be the Shane Warne just for once!

[Boots]

I've gpt a 5th learning.

We - as the Footscray/Western Bulldogs are always someones Bunnies.

It was the Cats.
It was the Crows.
It was the Cats AGAIN
Then it was the Aints.
Now.....Its the Demons.

Why can't we be the Shane Warne just for once!

It's still the Cats too.

[Grantysghost]

It's still the Cats too.

:^{

!

[MrMahatma]

I've gpt a 5th learning.

We - as the Footscray/Western Bulldogs are always someones Bunnies.

It was the Cats.
It was the Crows.
It was the Cats AGAIN
Then it was the Aints.
Now.....Its the Demons.

Why can't we be the Shane Warne just for once!

This is so true.

[Stevo]

We went into the game too tall and by the sounds of things we tried to nurse Lobb through the game. Hopefully the selectors strike a better balance this week.

[Mantis]

I've gpt a 5th learning.

We - as the Footscray/Western Bulldogs are always someones Bunnies.

It was the Cats.
It was the Crows.
It was the Cats AGAIN
Then it was the Aints.
Now.....Its the Demons.

Why can't we be the Shane Warne just for once!

But is it really?.. over the past 6 occasions we're 2-4 and held decent leads in 2 of the losses.

Since the start of 2021 Melbourne have played in 50 matches and lost only 12 so it's not an easy task to defeat them.

[Stevo]

But is it really?.. over the past 6 occasions we're 2-4 and held decent leads in 2 of the losses.

Since the start of 2021 Melbourne have played in 50 matches and lost only 12 so it's not an easy task to defeat them.

They are a very good team but its disappointing in the manner we lose against them.

[Grantysghost]

But is it really?.. over the past 6 occasions we're 2-4 and held decent leads in 2 of the losses.

Since the start of 2021 Melbourne have played in 50 matches and lost only 12 so it's not an easy task to defeat them.

I feel like they've got us where they want us, when they win they do it pretty easily - we've kind of stumbled across the line in the wins. The MCG game we broke them very late, the Marvel one even later.

[Curly5]

3. Has bevo got new chompers?

Yes. And Damien Barrett made a snide comment about them.

1. We were unprepared for the pressure of real opposition (as opposed to intraclub games).
2. We didn't seem to have anyone wanting to beat their opponent, they were in survival mode.
3. We get too excited in the preseason :(

And I only saw the last quarter. (Minus the last 5 minutes :()

[bornadog]

But is it really?.. over the past 6 occasions we're 2-4 and held decent leads in 2 of the losses.

Since the start of 2021 Melbourne have played in 50 matches and lost only 12 so it's not an easy task to defeat them.

That is a pretty good stat if you are a Melbourne supporter. They really stuffed up last year after finishing 2nd and out in straight sets.

[Mofra]

That is a pretty good stat if you are a Melbourne supporter. They really stuffed up last year after finishing 2nd and out in straight sets.
They were unbackable favourites in the middle of last year, 9 wins in a row with an average margin of something like 40 points

[Sedat]

But is it really?.. over the past 6 occasions we're 2-4 and held decent leads in 2 of the losses.

Since the start of 2021 Melbourne have played in 50 matches and lost only 12 so it's not an easy task to defeat them.
There is a clear problem with our midfield/rucks not being able to control Melbourne's stoppage and turnover game when they get on a roll. That has been a consistent feature of all 6 matches against them since the start of 2021.

When we continue to lose/concede big chunks of goals in the same manner, something is not clicking either with the match committee or the players. It should be noted that in our excellent win against them in H&A last season, they kicked 6 goals from centre clearances, so again this area of weakness was exposed (we really should have won that match by 40+ points based on general play).

From the highlights I've seen of R1, Melbourne got a lot of easy goals in transition either from turnover in our F50 or direct from centre square dominance - they also scored big against us and quickly (seen that movie before and it is a rubbish ending). Not a surprise at all considerering the way they have played against us since 2021. Perhaps it is leg-speed and the ability to cover the ground both ways - they seem to be vastly superior than us in both areas, negating our advantages in other areas.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

1. Poorly selected team with 4 talls on the forward line without
a crumbing small forward
2. We still struggle to play man on man against key players like Petracca Gawn and Oliver

3. An over reliance on Naughton forward and English in the ruck

[muzzyahoy]

1. People expect September football in March
2. Kicking efficiency looked like the boys hadn't played a real game since Aug '22
3. Sometimes the simple option is the right one. Kick to someone instead of no one (or Lever)

4. Bailey Smith needs to take some pace off his last 2 steps before kicking the footy. The art of kicking is placing and caressing the ball off your foot, not trying to kick the bladder out of it!!