Sharp Axes

[Warrnambulldog]

Not sure I have any confidence in any potential interim coach to get any bounce. Stewart Edge seems to know how to coach a team, shame he probably isn?t close enough at the top to get the gig

[SquirrelGrip]

Not sure I have any confidence in any potential interim coach to get any bounce. Stewart Edge seems to know how to coach a team, shame he probably isn?t close enough at the top to get the gig

Yes I agree WB. I don’t believe we have anyone else internally we’d want to coach for 15 weeks of the season. Listening to Bevo tonight, I believe he’s the best one to get us through this year. Best to work through the whole lost to figure out who is and isn’t up to it.

[GVGjr]

Yes I agree WB. I don’t believe we have anyone else internally we’d want to coach for 15 weeks of the season. Listening to Bevo tonight, I believe he’s the best one to get us through this year. Best to work through the whole lost to figure out who is and isn’t up to it.

I've mentioned it before that changing the coach so early in the year might be a palatable outcome for many supporters but it's fraught with problems. Far better to wait until closer to the bye but I'm still sticking with Bevo.

[G-Mo77]

I've mentioned it before that changing the coach so early in the year might be a palatable outcome for many supporters but it's fraught with problems. Far better to wait until closer to the bye but I'm still sticking with Bevo.

The other side is the damage being done now is just as bad. Either way we're in a bad situation!.Very bad.

[SonofScray]

it's not wrong. It's toxic. Has been since we lost in 2021. Looks to me like Grant and Bevo the main perpetrators. Love them both but their time is up. Question marks on Baines as well..

It is toxic.

Every day we wait is another day wasted.

[bulldogtragic]

The other side is the damage being done now is just as bad. Either way we're in a bad situation!.Very bad.

I think worse damage if he stays. Putting off a surgery you know you need hurt means we will be sicker when we have it and re recovery his harder.

We need to be sold hope. Usually it’s in high draft picks, we don’t have this year. Or in trade targets we won’t get. The only lever we can pull to offer us some hope that something will change is a new messenger in charge. Otherwise it’s just sit back and relax as we steer the plane into the ground. I don’t want to take that ride anymore.

[jeemak]

it's not wrong. It's toxic. Has been since we lost in 2021. Looks to me like Grant and Bevo the main perpetrators. Love them both but their time is up. Question marks on Baines as well..

I think if you're going to do it you need to take the time to do it properly.

So I'd start with Grant, Beveridge, Power, and putting on notice any of the players we think are taking the piss, and killing a few off as an example to the others. If we give any of the players a pass and don't make them accountable for better performances a new coach will come in and it won't be pretty because habits have been formed.

While our next coach needs to have a connection with the players, it needs to be less emotional than it seemingly is at the moment, and more business like. Frank, honest, caring and respectful, but not emotional.

[josie]

Bevo articulates so well what went wrong on field. Probably is best we stick with him.

When does it become untenable though? More losses to lowly teams?

If we made wrong decision to extend his tenure are others in firing line?

Horrible situation for club.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Bevo articulates so well what went wrong on field. Probably is best we stick with him.

When does it become untenable though? More losses to lowly teams?

If we made wrong decision to extend his tenure are others in firing line?

Horrible situation for club.

100% others should be in the firing line. Whoever extended him early. Imagine blowing a 7 goal lead in a final and extending the coach.

It's not a great situation to be in but we can't keep sitting on our hands here.

[angelopetraglia]

I think Lethal is spot on here https://x.com/FootyonNine/status/1787099138858905661

[jeemak]

I think Lethal is spot on here https://x.com/FootyonNine/status/1787099138858905661

The other thing about it is what would happen if Ameet didn't say we were aspiring for top four, given every club in the competition apart from one or two is genuinely aspiring for top eight, and teams that make the top eight are aspiring to take the next step!

Why do they hang onto this shit for? Some things you can only find out when you actually find out. If that wasn't the case we'd all just put in the time and effort, we'd always get what we want, and things would be perfect and to plan every time.

[Sedat]

It is toxic.

Every day we wait is another day wasted.
So our entire problems are solely due to the senior coach? If the axe swings on Bevo, I would be very disappointed if self-preservation ruled the day and it didn't also swing onto other very senior people at the club, and onto a significant portion of the playing list (who are so damn hard to love).

[angelopetraglia]

The other thing about it is what would happen if Ameet didn't say we were aspiring for top four, given every club in the competition apart from one or two is genuinely aspiring for top eight, and teams that make the top eight are aspiring to take the next step!

Why do they hang onto this shit for? Some things you can only find out when you actually find out. If that wasn't the case we'd all just put in the time and effort, we'd always get what we want, and things would be perfect and to plan every time.

Because Tom Morris wants to stir shit because he thinks that gets eyeballs and makes him look good at this job. He also has a vendetta against Bevo.

[JanLorMill]

The other thing about it is what would happen if Ameet didn't say we were aspiring for top four, given every club in the competition apart from one or two is genuinely aspiring for top eight, and teams that make the top eight are aspiring to take the next step!

Why do they hang onto this shit for? Some things you can only find out when you actually find out. If that wasn't the case we'd all just put in the time and effort, we'd always get what we want, and things would be perfect and to plan every time.
Why did he have to mention top four at all?
What?s the saying expect little, be grateful of over achieving? ???? Something like that

[jeemak]

Why did he have to mention top four at all?

He was probably asked do you think you have a list capable of challenging for top four.

As a journo in AFL land you'd maybe ask where do you see this list going and press from there. With a response to "I think this list is able to make finals and compete with the better teams" you then get an opportunity to ask, "is it capable of making the top four", so on and so forth.

I don't remember him standing on the corner wearing a sandwich board stating our top four aspirations, but that's how it's being portrayed in the media at the moment.

[The Adelaide Connection]

What sort of deals with the devil did you all do for the 2016 flag?

This all just doesn?t make sense.

[MrMahatma]

Not sure I have any confidence in any potential interim coach to get any bounce. Stewart Edge seems to know how to coach a team, shame he probably isn?t close enough at the top to get the gig

Baines should’ve walked into the coaches box halfway through the 2nd quarter and tapped Bevo on the shoulder and said “enough”. The first prime time sacking on live TV.

Why are we wasting weeks? They matter. Do they matter to the club? The matter to me.

Enough is enough. Time for change.

[GVGjr]

Baines should’ve walked into the coaches box halfway through the 2nd quarter and tapped Bevo on the shoulder and said “enough”. The first prime time sacking on live TV.

Why are we wasting weeks? They matter. Do they matter to the club? The matter to me.

Enough is enough. Time for change.

How would it change things by going early with a coaching change?

[jeemak]

Baines should?ve walked into the coaches box halfway through the 2nd quarter and tapped Bevo on the shoulder and said ?enough?. The first prime time sacking on live TV.

Why are we wasting weeks? They matter. Do they matter to the club? The matter to me.

Enough is enough. Time for change.

If a change is to occur (and I'm OK with it) it needs to be considered and meticulously planned.

I've played in a team where a change was made emotionally and haphazardly without any reasonable plan and it resulted in a two grade drop form A to C in consecutive years.

Whatever we do from here, if we **** up the detail we're going to pay for it long term.

[Eastdog]

If a change is to occur (and I'm OK with it) it needs to be considered and meticulously planned.

I've played in a team where a change was made emotionally and haphazardly without any reasonable plan and it resulted in a two grade drop form A to C in consecutive years.

Whatever we do from here, if we **** up the detail we're going to pay for it long term.

Yep well said jeemak. No rushed decisions. They need to thoroughly thought out.

Will be fascinating how it goes for the rest of the year.

[jeemak]

Yep well said jeemak. No rushed decisions. They need to thoroughly thought out.

Will be fascinating how it goes for the rest of the year.

It's only AFEL Easty. You and I still have the battle for sixth in the EPL to worry about!

[anfo27]

How would it change things by going early with a coaching change?

Its clear to me & has been for a few years now Bevo is not getting the best out of them. Not a single player! His coaching tactics are not good enough. The fundamentals are disgraceful! I firmly believe Bevo goes & the players would play better.
When its a close game the players look like they have no idea what they should be doing. The pies practice it every week & our players look lost. How can this be acceptable? Time & again the playing group look unprepared for the scenario put in front of them. How can things not improve with Bevo gone? Geez give the job to Bont & he can captain/coach & he'd do a better job.

[SonofScray]

So our entire problems are solely due to the senior coach? If the axe swings on Bevo, I would be very disappointed if self-preservation ruled the day and it didn't also swing onto other very senior people at the club, and onto a significant portion of the playing list (who are so damn hard to love).

Yes. Entirely.

The players are a reflection of the coach.


He has been confused, spent, stubborn, distracted and disorganised for years. There?s been some mitigating factors there but the most important thing is that he hasn?t got the results on the board. He?ll have these brief moments of clarity, or coherent thinking, we?ll beat up on a shit club and all of a sudden it?s an endless supply of credits in the bank for him again. Now we are reframing things around the list to buy him some time and grace.


I have said all along that the longer they wait to sack him, the more likely their fates are tied to together, so any number of Baines, Grant and Watson Wheeler have to go too. They?ve handled the situation with cowardice.

You can?t sack everyone all at once. 22plus players, board, footy department, CEO.


Start with Bevo.

Today!

[Bullies]

Because Tom Morris wants to stir shit because he thinks that gets eyeballs and makes him look good at this job. He also has a vendetta against Bevo. What gets me is the media keep using the argument that we are a top 4 side so Bevo should be sacked yet very few of the "experts" even picked us to make the 8 this year.

[angelopetraglia]

Kane wants to keep taking it to cliche hysteria with his well worn hits on the Dogs. Nathan Buckley with the opposite. Actualy decent analysis and pragmatic. Bucks worth listening to in regards to this.

https://dcs.megaphone.fm/NTETP9886558905.mp3?key=2157d31196eef67c970c0a7da5d95faf&request_event_id=8fe1b926-f401-489a-aef2-31909454a314

[SonofScray]

Kane wants to keep taking it to cliche hysteria with his well worn hits on the Dogs. Nathan Buckley with the opposite. Actualy decent analysis and pragmatic. Bucks worth listening to in regards to this.

https://dcs.megaphone.fm/NTETP9886558905.mp3?key=2157d31196eef67c970c0a7da5d95faf&request_event_id=8fe1b926-f401-489a-aef2-31909454a314

Bucks can have the job.

[angelopetraglia]

Ben Cameron

Western Bulldogs Chair Kylie Watson-Wheeler on @abcmelbourne:

“It’s too early in the season to panic and make rash decisions”

“There’s no panic.”

“Everything I see and hear, I see that connection (between Bevo & players)”

[bulldogtragic]

Ben Cameron

Western Bulldogs Chair Kylie Watson-Wheeler on @abcmelbourne:

“It’s too early in the season to panic and make rash decisions”

“There’s no panic.”

“Everything I see and hear, I see that connection (between Bevo & players)”

Well that’s great we can’t beat even the shot teams now but there’s a connection. I’m warm and fuzzy. Here I was thinking winning was important, even more so when the list management committee she’s on agreed to trade the first rounder this year. But stuff results, as long as there’s an emotional connection I’ll eat all these shit loses.

[G-Mo77]

Ben Cameron

Western Bulldogs Chair Kylie Watson-Wheeler on @abcmelbourne:

“It’s too early in the season to panic and make rash decisions”

“There’s no panic.”

“Everything I see and hear, I see that connection (between Bevo & players)”

Who?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Ben Cameron

Western Bulldogs Chair Kylie Watson-Wheeler on @abcmelbourne:

“It’s too early in the season to panic and make rash decisions”

“There’s no panic.”

“Everything I see and hear, I see that connection (between Bevo & players)”

Thank God for that. Here I was panicking.

Good to know we've got it under control. Ladder position is not the be all and end all people.

[Grantysghost]

Thank God for that. Here I was panicking.

Good to know we've got it under control. Ladder position is not the be all and end all people.

Well, not when you've traded away your first pick.

[G-Mo77]

Well, not when you've traded away your first pick.

I try to forget that but each week I'm reminded of this. Ooooof

[jeemak]

Kane wants to keep taking it to cliche hysteria with his well worn hits on the Dogs. Nathan Buckley with the opposite. Actualy decent analysis and pragmatic. Bucks worth listening to in regards to this.

https://dcs.megaphone.fm/NTETP9886558905.mp3?key=2157d31196eef67c970c0a7da5d95faf&request_event_id=8fe1b926-f401-489a-aef2-31909454a314

I don't know how someone can use Darcy as an example of how amazing our list is, even JUH is still in the development phase of his career and is going to be inconsistent.

As for Buckley, as an ex-senior coach I don't know how he copes with his opinion being tossed aside so readily by the likes of Cornes. At some point you'd be telling the dickhead to just shut up and listen.

[Grantysghost]

I try to forget that but each week I'm reminded of this. Ooooof

It's a kick to the nether regions that's for sure.

[Grantysghost]

I don't know how someone can use Darcy as an example of how amazing our list is, even JUH is still in the development phase of his career and is going to be inconsistent.

As for Buckley, as an ex-senior coach I don't know how he copes with his opinion being tossed aside so readily by the likes of Cornes. At some point you'd be telling the dickhead to just shut up and listen.

Because they know it's contrived theatre.

[angelopetraglia]

Because they know it's contrived theatre.

It is for one, but Bucks appears to take some pride in what it says and it being remotely accurate and actually informing the listeners. Cornes knows his role is just chief provocateur.

[angelopetraglia]

Western Bulldogs president Kylie Watson-Wheeler backs Luke Beveridge after Hawks loss Jon Ralph

The Bulldogs slumped to 3-5 after losing to the bottom-four Hawks on the weekend, but club president Kylie Watson-Wheeler and board member Luke Darcy continue to back the coach.

Western Bulldogs president Kylie Watson-Wheeler has backed the security of coach Luke Beveridge’s job but made clear the clash against Hawthorn was “a game we all definitely expected to win”.

After the Dogs lost another close game to a club out of finals contention Beveridge made clear he believed he had the trust and connection with his playing group.

In the last 13 games the Dogs have lost all five clashes decided by a single-figure margin, with a top four finish likely a pipedream given his side would need to win 12 of their final 15 home-and-away games.

Dogs chief executive Ameet Bains said recently the club’s hope was to contend for the premiership this year and Watson-Wheeler agreed finals had been the stated goal this season.

But as she echoed Beveridge’s mantra about a list evolution she made clear the club planned to honour his contract despite the 3-5 start to the season.

“Yeah, he’s contracted until the end of next year, we are really focused on working together with the coaching group and we have had a lot of coaching changes as well so we are settling that in,” she said.

“We are focused on supporting the group we have and really ensuring we are giving them everything they need to bring that positive result on the field.

“I think you need to watch what is happening on the field consistently and what is happening within the walls of the club. Everything I see, I see and feel that connection and we are in a bit of a phase of evolution within the team and determining how we can manage to deliver that high performance that we have the ability to do on a consistent basis.”

Watson-Wheeler’s semi-regular ABC spot came on the morning after the club’s dispiring loss to the Hawks but she made clear nothing would change in the club’s backing of Beveridge.

Beveridge said earlier this year the club’s all-encompassing review over summer had not been about his coaching but about “freeing me up to progress things in the coaching and management space”.

Board member Luke Darcy made clear last August he was a Beveridge man.

“100 per cent he is (the man). And all the evidence would suggest that,” he said.

“Sometimes the commentary outside can border on disrespectful at times when you talk of someone with the history and record that he has, he has changed the whole paradigm of coaching in many ways. His record has been extraordinary. He has been an extraordinary leader of that football club. He has been an incredibly positive, successful person. Our football club in 10 years has never had a more successful period. This deathriding of coaches, I am uneasy with that.”

Wheeler-Watson said the club had not expected to lose to Hawthorn.

“Certainly it was a game we all definitely expected to win so we are all disappointed and frustrated within the club, all levels of the club,” she said

“As of course are our fans and we really understand that. What has been interesting this season for us is we have had three convincing wins and two convincing losses and then we have had three losses where we were right up at the line and just couldn’t find what we needed to jump over that and last night was one of those games. As a club we continue to connect to determine what we need to do to make sure we can win those games.”

“I think the reality is when you think about the evolution of your football team and the game and where you are at you need to improve upon the previous year. Given we just missed out on finals last year making finals is an improvement. But at our best we are very very good. We just need to maintain that and bring our best more than we are at the moment.”

[bulldogtragic]

How did 10 month old Luke Darcy comments make that article?

[SonofScray]

Western Bulldogs president Kylie Watson-Wheeler backs Luke Beveridge after Hawks loss Jon Ralph

The Bulldogs slumped to 3-5 after losing to the bottom-four Hawks on the weekend, but club president Kylie Watson-Wheeler and board member Luke Darcy continue to back the coach.

Western Bulldogs president Kylie Watson-Wheeler has backed the security of coach Luke Beveridge’s job but made clear the clash against Hawthorn was “a game we all definitely expected to win”.

After the Dogs lost another close game to a club out of finals contention Beveridge made clear he believed he had the trust and connection with his playing group.

In the last 13 games the Dogs have lost all five clashes decided by a single-figure margin, with a top four finish likely a pipedream given his side would need to win 12 of their final 15 home-and-away games.

Dogs chief executive Ameet Bains said recently the club’s hope was to contend for the premiership this year and Watson-Wheeler agreed finals had been the stated goal this season.

But as she echoed Beveridge’s mantra about a list evolution she made clear the club planned to honour his contract despite the 3-5 start to the season.

“Yeah, he’s contracted until the end of next year, we are really focused on working together with the coaching group and we have had a lot of coaching changes as well so we are settling that in,” she said.

“We are focused on supporting the group we have and really ensuring we are giving them everything they need to bring that positive result on the field.

“I think you need to watch what is happening on the field consistently and what is happening within the walls of the club. Everything I see, I see and feel that connection and we are in a bit of a phase of evolution within the team and determining how we can manage to deliver that high performance that we have the ability to do on a consistent basis.”

Watson-Wheeler’s semi-regular ABC spot came on the morning after the club’s dispiring loss to the Hawks but she made clear nothing would change in the club’s backing of Beveridge.

Beveridge said earlier this year the club’s all-encompassing review over summer had not been about his coaching but about “freeing me up to progress things in the coaching and management space”.

Board member Luke Darcy made clear last August he was a Beveridge man.

“100 per cent he is (the man). And all the evidence would suggest that,” he said.

“Sometimes the commentary outside can border on disrespectful at times when you talk of someone with the history and record that he has, he has changed the whole paradigm of coaching in many ways. His record has been extraordinary. He has been an extraordinary leader of that football club. He has been an incredibly positive, successful person. Our football club in 10 years has never had a more successful period. This deathriding of coaches, I am uneasy with that.”

Wheeler-Watson said the club had not expected to lose to Hawthorn.

“Certainly it was a game we all definitely expected to win so we are all disappointed and frustrated within the club, all levels of the club,” she said

“As of course are our fans and we really understand that. What has been interesting this season for us is we have had three convincing wins and two convincing losses and then we have had three losses where we were right up at the line and just couldn’t find what we needed to jump over that and last night was one of those games. As a club we continue to connect to determine what we need to do to make sure we can win those games.”

“I think the reality is when you think about the evolution of your football team and the game and where you are at you need to improve upon the previous year. Given we just missed out on finals last year making finals is an improvement. But at our best we are very very good. We just need to maintain that and bring our best more than we are at the moment.”

9 games in a row where the deciding margin is 14 points or less we have lost.

[bornadog]

9 games in a row where the deciding margin is 14 points or less we have lost.

That tells me we don't have the quality of players to finish off a game.

We again played 8 inexperienced players yesterday (0 to 50 games) - but many not up to it, or still learning their trade.

[angelopetraglia]

That tells me we don't have the quality of players to finish off a game.

We again played 8 inexperienced players yesterday (0 to 50 games) - but many not up to it, or still learning their trade.

Yes. But our opponent yesterday had 9.

[Grantysghost]

Melbourne had 5 under 10 games.

[bornadog]

Yes. But our opponent yesterday had 9.

but they had 7 in the 50 to 100, to our 2

In the 0 to 50 - As I said in my comment, ours aren't up to it, whereas Hawks are

[azabob]

Assuming 13 wins puts you in finals contention we need to win ten of our last fifteen games.

Breaking the remainder of the games into blocks of five highlights how tough our run home is.

We play ten games against current top 8 teams.

Richmond (away), Giants (away), Sydney (home), Pies (away at marvel), Lions (home)
Dockers (home), North (away at marvel), Port (away), Carlton (home), Geelong (away),
Sydney (away), Melbourne (home), Adelaide (away), North (home) Giants (home)

I would suggest we are favourite against North (twice) and 50/50 V Richmond this week.
Kinda depressing.

[mjp]

Well, not when you've traded away your first pick.

In all seriousness, did we have a real choice with this?

I mean, I feel like it's revisionist history (somewhat) because my recollection is that everyone was on board with this when it happened!

[bulldogsthru&thru]

In all seriousness, did we have a real choice with this?

I mean, I feel like it's revisionist history (somewhat) because my recollection is that everyone was on board with this when it happened!

A lot weren't.

A lot actually hated it prior to the draft. I think landing Sanders softened it for some but it was under good faith the club seriously believed we'd challenge for a flag. The fact we've gone backwards is making it look like a poor choice.and going backwards is in line with what many thought might happen this year.

I'm struggling to understand where those in charge are seeing confidence in the coaching/players.

[bornadog]

A lot weren't.

A lot actually hated it prior to the draft. I think landing Sanders softened it for some but it was under good faith the club seriously believed we'd challenge for a flag. The fact we've gone backwards is making it look like a poor choice.and going backwards is in line with what many thought might happen this year.

Sanders is the future. we had the opportunity to grab a talented mid in the top 5 or 6 and we got one. Great move.


I'm struggling to understand where those in charge are seeing confidence in the coaching/players.

We had a review of the whole Footy department. We made changes to the structure, reporting lines and got in some new assistants. We lose a few games, and everyone wants to throw that all away and sack, sack, sack after only 5 months.

Let's give it a go, wait till year end and decide then. There is ZERO to gain by changing again now.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Sanders is the future. we had the opportunity to grab a talented mid in the top 5 or 6 and we got one. Great move.



We had a review of the whole Footy department. We made changes to the structure, reporting lines and got in some new assistants. We lose a few games, and everyone wants to throw that all away and sack, sack, sack after only 5 months.

Let's give it a go, wait till year end and decide then. There is ZERO to gain by changing again now.

I mean the trade was a ballsy move so I can't really fault the club in giving it a crack. Our hands were somewhat tied with Croft. It's not looking great now but playing things safe can also hurt so I can at least see why the club did it.

I also don't think we stand to gain much by sacking bevo right now. Interim coach periods are never successful. I'm just of the opinion that his time as our coach is done by seasons end. I'd be astonished if we turned this around.

[bornadog]

I mean the trade was a ballsy move so I can't really fault the club in giving it a crack. Our hands were somewhat tied with Croft. It's not looking great now but playing things safe can also hurt so I can at least see why the club did it.

I also don't think we stand to gain much by sacking bevo right now. Interim coach periods are never successful. I'm just of the opinion that his time as our coach is done by seasons end. I'd be astonished if we turned this around.

Hopefully Sanders and Croft work out - I am confident they will.

[angelopetraglia]

On thin ice: Bulldogs' Bevo 'marriage' has run its course Rohan Connolly

Whenever Luke Beveridge's time as Western Bulldogs coach finishes, he will be a club legend, the man who took the Dogs in the space of just two seasons from 14th to their second-only premiership, and first for 62 years.

It's the happiest chapter in the Bulldogs' history. But increasingly, it also looks like the story is just about over, and that the parting of ways between coach and club is the only logical conclusion.

The Dogs' surprise seven-point defeat to Hawthorn on Sunday wasn't necessarily a definitive "coach killer". It was, however, more fuel to the flames of Bulldog discontent, more evidence that this is a team plodding along, going nowhere fast, and no longer heeding their coach's message.

Beveridge is contracted until the end of 2025. But if the Bulldogs accept now that this particular playing group isn't destined to again scale the heights, and that a major list overhaul is required, wouldn't logic dictate that it needs to be overseen by a coach who will be in the position for at least several more years?

And perhaps even Beveridge himself would concede now that the prospect of him still being in the position come, say 2027 or 2028, would be at long odds.

I wrote several weeks ago that this Bulldog group hadn't been nearly as good in practice as it looked on paper for several years. And that it no longer even looked that impressive on paper.

The once-feared midfield group is a shadow of its former self, too reliant on Marcus Bontempelli and the increasingly banged-up Tom Liberatore, and missing the likes of Josh Dunkley and even Lachie Hunter far more than had been anticipated. The absence of Bailey Smith has also robbed the Dogs not only of talent, but considerable spark and energy, too.

The defence is leaky and error-prone, 68 points conceded on turnover against Hawthorn on Sunday, and the Dogs again struggling to defend opposition ball movement. The forward set-up is prone to erratic performance from individuals, the bevy of talls seldom clicking as one.

But what has become perhaps more apparent even since a few weeks ago is the level of disconnect between the instruction and the delivery on the field.

It's apparent in the surrendering of winnable situations without enough resistance. It's apparent in the runs of opposition goals the Bulldogs routinely concede without seeming able to stem the flow, which happened again yesterday after the Dogs had kicked the first three goals within six minutes, then conceded seven of the next nine.

And it's apparent in that same inconsistency on a bigger scale from week to week. The Dogs' two most impressive victories this season, against Gold Coast and St Kilda, came after a week of intense criticism following terrible performances against Melbourne and Essendon.

That they haven't been able to sustain those emotionally-fuelled responses for any length of time afterwards, is telling. Good teams create their own motivation and momentum without the need for external stimulus.

But the energy generated internally at Whitten Oval these past 12 months or so has rarely seemed positive. I'm not necessarily a big one for footy scuttlebutt, but the reports of friction between coach and administration and coach and various players have been loud for a long time now.

Even the reaction to Essendon ruckman Sam Draper's podcast comments last week about senior Bulldogs wanting out should Beveridge stay was interesting, as though the sensitivity around his remarks from all parties concerned denoted a "where there's smoke, there's fire" vibe.

I've often been taken aback by the level of angst from Bulldog people about a coach who has delivered them a premiership, two grand finals, and six finals campaigns in nine years.

But their counter-argument would be that the Bulldogs under Beveridge in nine years have never finished a regular season higher than fifth or with more than 15 wins from 22 games, relying on two month-long bursts of form in 2016 and 2021 to take them to their greatest heights.

Beveridge's quirkiness when it came to matters like selection or positional placement worked well for him in those early seasons, keeping players on their toes.

These days it seems not only a source of frustration for fans, who believe he plays favourites with lesser-talented types, but dangerously, perhaps also for some players with considerable clout within the playing group.

At 3-5 in 11th spot on the ladder and already two games outside the top eight, the Bulldogs' season is in danger of imploding. And what's ahead certainly won't fill them with confidence, the Dogs' next four games against Greater Western Sydney and the Swans, third and first on the ladder respectively, then last year's grand finalists Collingwood and Brisbane.

Right now, you couldn't realistically tip them to win any of those clashes. And if the Dogs were out of finals contention by the end of Round 12, how bad could things get over the second half of the season?

I'm not advocating for an immediate sacking. And I'd understand if the Dogs opted to let Beveridge coach out his current deal to the end of next year. But this really does look like a classic example of what was a very successful marriage simply having run its course.

There's no shame in that for either party. But both need to acknowledge it sooner than later if unnecessary pain is to be avoided by a whole club and its support base.

[SonofScray]

Its absolutely a matter of when, not if he is finished now.

I'd like to see him gone, press conferences held and office packed up by Wednesday next week.

[angelopetraglia]

A very good piece from Rohan who nails pieces like this quite often which is becoming a rarer thing in the current footy media circus.

[bulldogtragic]

Pretty much it.

[mjp]

A lot weren't.

A lot actually hated it prior to the draft.

OK - fair enough.

I thought it was pretty much agreed that we wanted to take Croft and therefore the price we had to pay was to trade...I will happily accept the counter argument but to me we didn't give UP a first round pick - we used an EXTRA first round pick this year...

So this year: Sanders and Croft.
Next year: Donuts.

I can live with that.

Falling down the ladder to turn the trade to the advantage of whoever it was? Well...you can't really blame the recruiting/list management team for that.

[GVGjr]

A lot weren't.

A lot actually hated it prior to the draft. I think landing Sanders softened it for some but it was under good faith the club seriously believed we'd challenge for a flag. The fact we've gone backwards is making it look like a poor choice.and going backwards is in line with what many thought might happen this year.

I'm struggling to understand where those in charge are seeing confidence in the coaching/players.

The way I look at it in 2023 and 2024 we have landed two players rated as first rounders. Sanders at the pointy end of 2023 draft and Croft more at the back end of the first round in the same draft.
Then if Smith or English were to go we can strengthen our draft hand in 2024. If they stay we've got a pretty good list.
Bringing in Sanders and moving up the order to do so seems okay from my perspective. He will be 12 months ahead of any early draft pick we take later this year.

[angelopetraglia]

Mark Robinson: Sunday’s loss an alarming reality check for Dogs, Beveridge

It’s precarious times at the Kennel, and it seems Luke Beveridge is fighting a bushfire with a garden hose and there is an inferno coming over the hill, writes MARK ROBINSON.

Luke Beveridge will know when it’s time.

He won’t be sacked by the Western Bulldogs, but he’ll know when the party is over.

It won’t be this week, despite the unexpected loss to Hawthorn on Sunday.

But it could be next week if the Bulldogs lose to lowly Richmond on Saturday night.

It’s that precarious at the kennel.

After that, they play the Giants (away), Sydney (home), Collingwood (Marvel Stadium) and then Brisbane (Marvel).

It feels like Beveridge is fighting a bushfire with a garden hose and the inferno is still yet to come over the hill.

Sunday’s loss to the Hawks was so disheartening and so much of an alarming reality check that even the staunchest Beveridge supporters would have lost faith.

Suddenly for fans, the hopelessness of playing finals was laid bare.

There’s always one game that becomes unacceptable.

The Beveridge detractors would argue it came in Round 23 last year when the Bulldogs lost to West Coast at Marvel Stadium. It was the Eagles’ third win of the season and the immediate punishment for the Bulldogs was they missed finals.

All was forgiven. Back-to-back reviews of the footy department ensued, personnel changes were made and the new season loomed with internal confidence and external optimism.

Of their first eight games, six were against teams that didn’t play finals in 2023.

They are 3-5 in that stretch.

If the Hawks game wasn’t THE game, then the Tigers game will be.

If it is a loss – and unless Beveridge is as stubborn as his critics say – it’s impossible to believe the coach would put his head on his pillow that night and not ask himself: Am I the right person to coach this footy club?

Maybe the powers that be – especially Ameet Bains, the chief executive that said Beveridge had a top-four list to coach – might ask him to ask himself the question.

Mind you, the Bulldogs might find confidence, they might find more midfielders, they might correct their handball game, they might stop turning the ball over and they might stop bombing the ball into the forward 50m, hoping one of their big blokes will mark it. In doing so, they might resurrect their season.

This doom commentary would pass, but there’s too many “mights” there.

I would argue the Bulldogs’ top, top-end is elite – and that’s Marcus Bontempelli and Tom Liberatore.

The rest of the big names – Aaron Naughton, Tim English, Adam Treloar, Liam Jones, Ed Richards, Bailey Dale, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and Cody Weightman – stagger between outstanding, serviceable and average.

Caleb Daniel is done at the Dogs, the career of Jack Macrae, a club champion, is coming to an end faster than what he’s moving, Bailey Smith is who knows where in his mind, and all of that makes Josh Dunkley’s departure to Brisbane even more devastating.

Now that Libba is out indefinitely, with what is understood to be his third concussion in 10 games in his past nine AFL games. That’s frightening in itself.

Very quickly, you could argue the list has been exposed.

Either that, or argue that Beveridge’s messaging, or style of coaching, has lost its lustre.

That’s the burning question the Bulldogs must now grapple with. Is it the list, self-belief in the players, or is it Beveridge?

Change often works.

Giants coach Leon Cameron stood down eight rounds into the 2022 season. The Giants played finals in 2021 and in Cameron’s ninth year, they were 2-6 before he departed.

The new coach, Adam Kingsley, had the same list but a new fast-moving game plan and got the Giants to the preliminary final in 2023.

This is Beveridge’s 10th season as coach. He is a fighter. Always has been. He was never the most talented as a player, but he had grit and a tremendous work ethic.

But if this season continues to go pear-shaped, he will need to park that instinct to fight and fix the problems and accept that what he’s demanding from his players is not being delivered.

That means a change is needed.

And it doesn’t matter whether you’re a premiership coach or not, the party always ends for everyone.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I feel Bevo was poignant in his press conference, strangely balanced in his reconciliation to the l9ss, citing uncharatic turnovers, syaing he is thixk skinned so criticism he accepts.
Going down with the ship, bravo Bevo.
Let's turn it around.
Hopefully the players are spurred by the defeat.
Hope springs eternallly.

[Grantysghost]

I feel Bevo was poignant in his press conference, strangely balanced in his reconciliation to the l9ss, citing uncharatic turnovers, syaing he is thixk skinned so criticism he accepts.
Going down with the ship, bravo Bevo.
Let's turn it around.
Hopefully the players are spurred by the defeat.
Hope springs eternallly.
Why is the ship going down though? Many of us would argue we've had far less talented lists playing better footy.
It's bloody confusing.

[Grantysghost]

OK - fair enough.

I thought it was pretty much agreed that we wanted to take Croft and therefore the price we had to pay was to trade...I will happily accept the counter argument but to me we didn't give UP a first round pick - we used an EXTRA first round pick this year...

So this year: Sanders and Croft.
Next year: Donuts.

I can live with that.

Falling down the ladder to turn the trade to the advantage of whoever it was? Well...you can't really blame the recruiting/list management team for that.
Re blame, i think you definitely can. They build / rate the list and gambled we'd be higher than GC did. A gamble they lost.
You have to live by that decision if you are them.

The difference bw a top 5 pick which we appear to be be heading towards and a pick in the mid teens is massive.
Croft a top 5 pick?

I hate trading your future. I was reluctant with Croft as i wanted more mids at the time. List is so unbalanced.

[Grantysghost]

Sanders is the future. we had the opportunity to grab a talented mid in the top 5 or 6 and we got one. Great move.



We had a review of the whole Footy department. We made changes to the structure, reporting lines and got in some new assistants. We lose a few games, and everyone wants to throw that all away and sack, sack, sack after only 5 months.

Let's give it a go, wait till year end and decide then. There is ZERO to gain by changing again now.

What if Baz stays?

[kruder]

I think if we are going to move on from Bevo, a new coach needs to be announced well before trade week kicks off.

We are placed in a very awkward position with so many key players out of contract that you would want the new coach to get a chance to sit down with them and management and have a say on the list going forward.

[bornadog]

What if Baz stays?
I don?t understand the question based on my post

[EasternWest]

I don?t understand the question based on my

Did BAD get fired from the forum midway through his post? That is a particularly sharp axe.

[GVGjr]

I actually thought Bevo did a good job in the presser and nailed most of the reason why we lost.
It's hard times to keep fronting up after disappointing losses and Bevo's doing as well as we might hope for.

Most losses and poor form come from a variety of reasons:

Injuries - Well that really isn't an issue for us especially since we moved away from Skinner.
Rebuilding Playing List - Not an issue there, the CEO and President set the bar highly for the prospects this season and our recent recruiting would indicate the club believes we are in the window.
8 games into the season and we now might not have a top 4 list but it's a top 8 list not meeting it's potential.
Opposition Star player dominates - Once again not really an issue. It's not not we have had a Lance Franklin type light us up.
Distracted Playing List - In 2017 and 2018 we've seen what happens when we have a few distracted players but while it's plausible I've not seen any evidence of that this year. Sure some players have had to swallow a bitter pill or two but the coach warned the group at the start of the pre-season and has pretty much stuck to the script. Has it caught some by surprise that we've followed through on that message? Perhaps, but it was clearly a focus for the 2024 season.
Players aren't playing for the jumper - A hard one to assess and especially as outsiders but we would or should see it at the match day selections so there is no sign of that.
The coach is struggling with a changing environment - Lets use a bit of history here, When Rodney Eade arrived at the club he quickly fixed the ball movement and exploited the AFL rules at the time and in his first year we kicked more coast-to-coast goals than any other team because Eade brought in energy and a fresh approach. At the end of his long and illustrious tenure with us he was somewhat jaded and defeated focusing more on how rule changes had affected the team, struggling with the concept of how to best use a sub player and refusing to embrace or counter the forward press that so many clubs were employing.
I'm not sure that this is evident in Bevo's coaching at the moment but I don't think we have seen a lot of innovation for a couple of seasons now. Is he starting to get jaded? I don't know but we might need to watch this space. Most coaches have a use-by date.
The coach has lost the players - This could be an issue, it's not clearly evident as we have perhaps seen at other times or at other clubs but Bevo and the club would be aware if the playing group is right behind the coach or not.

There could be some other reasons but I'm not for making a change for the sake of it and would prefer to hear why it's actually failing.

[Grantysghost]

Did BAD get fired from the forum midway through his post? That is a particularly sharp axe.
I think it's our morale duty to finish it for him.

[Grantysghost]

I don?t understand the question based on my
Based on my love of our more rotund Bulldogs players?

Good point bad. I'm not sure it has anything to do with weight, but if it were I agree that Josh Bruce knocking off 15 hotdogs at the skinner reserve canteen is clearly still affecting Bevo.

[bornadog]

I don?t understand the question based on my post


Did BAD get fired from the forum midway through his post? That is a particularly sharp axe.

haha, not sure what happened, maybe Gary sacked me:D - illegally, so I am back


I think it's our morale duty to finish it for him.

Please answer the question after I fixed it :D

[Bulldog Joe]

That tells me we don't have the quality of players to finish off a game.

We again played 8 inexperienced players yesterday (0 to 50 games) - but many not up to it, or still learning their trade.

Don't you ever get past being an apologist for our failures.
We don't win close game against anyone.
Who is responsible for preparing the team?
If it is the players why can Hawthorn win close games even if it is only against us.
When does anything become the responsibility of the coach.
Who is actually to be held responsible for the list and game readiness.

[Grantysghost]

I don?t understand the question based on my post
Me either i'm frustration posting today!

I guess im asking if Baz sees no future currently, then a change in direction might revitalise his interest?
Kingsley type move.

[bornadog]

Don't you ever get past being an apologist for our failures.
We don't win close game against anyone.
Who is responsible for preparing the team?
If it is the players why can Hawthorn win close games even if it is only against us.
When does anything become the responsibility of the coach.
Who is actually to be held responsible for the list and game readiness.

I have my opinion and you have yours. You have bagged the coach for years, and that is your opinion and I didn't say a thing

I have criticised the team for not having the right players, and we don't.

I am not emotionally immature like many supporters who call for the coaches head after every loss, especially after the club had an extensive review preseason.

[Jasper]

Don't you ever get past being an apologist for our failures.
We don't win close game against anyone.
Who is responsible for preparing the team?
If it is the players why can Hawthorn win close games even if it is only against us.
When does anything become the responsibility of the coach.
Who is actually to be held responsible for the list and game readiness.

I'm a bit in the let Bevo coach out the year camp even if the numbers are dwindling but we have to accept that he might be a big part of our struggles. I'm a bit over reading it's Lade or that the list isn't strong enough or we have a young side and basically anything else as long as Luke isn't being questioned. It's like we will question the performances of others so that Luke is shielded? There is a balance between being half full and reality we need to strike.

[bornadog]

Me either i'm frustration posting today!

I guess im asking if Baz sees no future currently, then a change in direction might revitalise his interest?
Kingsley type move.

That wasn't evident in your post and I got confused.

[MrMahatma]

I am not emotionally immature like many supporters who call for the coaches head after every loss, especially after the club had an extensive review preseason.

It’s a bit different now though isn’t it? The way we finished last season, and the way we started this one… it’s not knee jerk to suggest Bevo is done. The body of work over recent times just isn’t good enough.

[bornadog]

It’s a bit different now though isn’t it? The way we finished last season, and the way we started this one… it’s not knee jerk to suggest Bevo is done. The body of work over recent times just isn’t good enough.

We had a review and we need to stick to it. If we find at seasons end Bevo is not the man anymore, that is fine. It does no one any good to change a coach during the season and make the club look unprofessional. Unless the coach has lost the players, but there is no evidence of that.

[jeemak]

I think the counter arguments either way as just as reasonable as each other.

Can anyone say we're not lacking burst in the midfield, we're not lacking support for Liam Jones, not lacking consistent quality in role players on the wings and across half forward? Are two of our talls in JUH and Darcy still well and truly in the developmental phases of their careers? Did Smith not do a knee? Are we not playing a lot of players who have limited game experience, across a range of positions?

These things can be seen. But people choose not to see them or place any value in them.

Saying the club thought it had a list to compete with the top four last year, or make the eight this year doesn't really change the above. It's almost as if just because it's been said it must be true so if it doesn't turn out to be true the coach needs to be sacked - when an assessment like that would be a broad football department assessment.

It can also be true that the coach has lost the players, and his message is not getting through. It could also be the message is getting through but the game has gone in a direction he can't. What I don't really get is that people can believe that without really acknowledging the realities of the above.

[JanLorMill]

The way I look at it in 2023 and 2024 we have landed two players rated as first rounders. Sanders at the pointy end of 2023 draft and Croft more at the back end of the first round in the same draft.
Then if Smith or English were to go we can strengthen our draft hand in 2024. If they stay we've got a pretty good list.
Bringing in Sanders and moving up the order to do so seems okay from my perspective. He will be 12 months ahead of any early draft pick we take later this year.
I know its hindsight but Croft went pick 15 and we would have had a valid pick before that.
I hope Sanders is better than Koltyn Tholstrup (GC traded that pick) and who ever Gold Coast pick up this year.

[lemmon]

I know its hindsight but Croft went pick 15 and we would have had a valid pick before that.
I hope Sanders is better than Koltyn Tholstrup (GC traded that pick) and who ever Gold Coast pick up this year.

A few of us were very into Darcy Wilson who'd look fantastic for us at the moment and has a lot of things we're desperate for.

[Hotdog60]

Are the coaches too nice. Bevo loves his players and could he be the good cop but we are missing the bad cop.
This is going down the Monty path and I think we need an assistant coach that the players are scare of. One that doesn't sugar coat a players performance.
This is purely from the outside looking in.

[hujsh]

I know its hindsight but Croft went pick 15 and we would have had a valid pick before that.
I hope Sanders is better than Koltyn Tholstrup (GC traded that pick) and who ever Gold Coast pick up this year.

If we had that pick someone would surely make us spend it. The calculation seems to have been that pick gets used on Croft regardless so do you trade a future first and whatever the next pick was (23?) for Sanders/pick 6?

It still of course does matter how good Sanders ends up (and how shit we are this year) when assessing that trade.

[bulldogtragic]

I know its hindsight but Croft went pick 15 and we would have had a valid pick before that.
I hope Sanders is better than Koltyn Tholstrup (GC traded that pick) and who ever Gold Coast pick up this year.

Not to be pedantic. (They paid 1/3 if Croft) Plus gave us the pick for Freijah and circa Pick 50 this year.

My view was in the nuance. If we played finals then the points differential means the end justifies the means. If we hand them Pick 7 or so, then the payment is overly generous.

If Freijah turns into a player with Sanders, plus securing Croft and what at Pick 50, it’s not a complete bust by any means. The issue we face now is if we want to rebuild having traded like a top six aspirant, then we are in a tight spot which was the risk we took. Smith for something with an F1 doesn’t help. Although we could trade both F1 to get into the late firsts this year and/or let English go.

It’s on our draft guys to make the trade guys look ok on the trade. Then on the trade guys to work out how we bring in talent, as if English goes we can’t bring in FA at the risk of downgrading Tim’s compo. I’m looking forward to the trade season as a nerd. I’m fearing what it might actually look like as a die hard though. KWW comments today make it sounds like things are on track, so maybe we just need to tinker more to get success… if we change tact, then we might not be chasing certain players to help the rebuild. Who knows?!?!!

[JanLorMill]

If we had that pick someone would surely make us spend it. The calculation seems to have been that pick gets used on Croft regardless so do you trade a future first and whatever the next pick was (23?) for Sanders/pick 6?

It still of course does matter how good Sanders ends up (and how shit we are this year) when assessing that trade.
Maybe. It’s still a big price considering it’s likely a top 10 this year now.

[hujsh]

Maybe. It’s still a big price considering it’s likely a top 10 this year now.

I don't think anyone is arguing with that. Hell I even said here once it went down that it's a real concern our future first could be very similar to the pick we're trading for. The only thing that changed was I thought maybe we'd made some changes to address way we played end of last year. If anything that formline has continued pretty uninterrupted.

[Warrnambulldog]

I get that people are saying that maybe the players and the list arent as good as what people are saying. The issue with that is; Lobb, Harmes etc when they joined, they all speak of when they first spoke to Bevo and he convinced them to come. The same players that are letting Bevo down (not just saying the above),are the ones he had a big part in hand picking.

Kinda crazy but I feel his match committee decisions this year have been saner than normal. I dont know about you guys but Im still scarred by the faith he had in the likes of McComb when no one else rightfully did. I like Bevo, he is intelligent but I feel he outsmarts himself by trying to be smarter than everyone else. This evolution the club speaks of, is it just another revolving door of recycled players around our stars who are being wasted? We have had a gutful of this rinse and repeat of disappointment hence the sharpened axes

[The Adelaide Connection]

OK - fair enough.

I thought it was pretty much agreed that we wanted to take Croft and therefore the price we had to pay was to trade...I will happily accept the counter argument but to me we didn't give UP a first round pick - we used an EXTRA first round pick this year...

So this year: Sanders and Croft.
Next year: Donuts.

I can live with that.

Falling down the ladder to turn the trade to the advantage of whoever it was? Well...you can't really blame the recruiting/list management team for that.

I think in a weird way we were unlucky that we had to pay the farm for JUH, Darcy and Croft in such a close time frame.

You couldn't not take them, but did it severely compromise our ability to target our most pressing needs and bring in players who would have had an instant impact?

Also, considering all of these high-cost talls coming in was it a mistake to target Busslinger (given talls traditionally take longer to come on)? Hindsight and all of that, but it sounds like he might get whisked away at the end of the year for not much too.

[azabob]

Are the coaches too nice. Bevo loves his players and could he be the good cop but we are missing the bad cop.
This is going down the Monty path and I think we need an assistant coach that the players are scare of. One that doesn't sugar coat a players performance.
This is purely from the outside looking in.

A handful of posters have consistently questioned the decision to move Montgomery on.

We have definitely missed him and Graham Lowe.

[kickit2Koly]

Are the coaches too nice. Bevo loves his players and could he be the good cop but we are missing the bad cop.
This is going down the Monty path and I think we need an assistant coach that the players are scare of. One that doesn't sugar coat a players performance.
This is purely from the outside looking in.

I'm not sure about the coaches but I think our players are too nice. who are our hard bastards other than Libba and maybe Westy?!

In 16' we had a group that played tough,Libba, Clay smith, Picken, M.Boyd, Morris, Dalhaus, Cordy even Redpath and Wallis when on the field. We don't have that hard edge anymore which is maybe why we struggle to win the close ones.

We seem to lack on field leaders other than Bont.

[GVGjr]

A handful of posters have consistently questioned the decision to move Montgomery on.

We have definitely missed him and Graham Lowe.

Did Monty really get moved on? It seemed to be his decision.
From memory there were some other challenges for him that led him to jump early.
I think he left with just about 6 weeks to go in the season.

[azabob]

Did Monty really get moved on? It seemed to be his decision.
From memory there were some other challenges for him that led him to jump early.
I think he left with just about 6 weeks to go in the season.

I can't recall if Beveridge or Montgomery said it but the club (I read as Beveridge) and Montgomery had different ideas of where he was heading as a coach.

[Critter]

From Caroline Wilson in The Age at that time:

"The Western Bulldogs' strange decision to publicly eject assistant coach Brett Montgomery before the end of the season has left Montgomery in limbo and cast doubt over the so-called August 1 deadline put in place to create transparency between clubs and assistant coaches.

At least for a week.
However, the inner-sanctum mantra at Whitten Oval which dictates that you are either in or out became too strong for Beveridge and his team and saw the assistant encouraged to start looking elsewhere. It was not a good sign that he was not even given the chance to thank the club, after this most recent six-year stint, on its media statement.
Montgomery, the losing candidate when Luke Beveridge was appointed at the end of 2014, was reportedly keen to remain at the club for the finals campaign and that too appeared to be the Bulldogs view."

[Sedat]

From Caroline Wilson in The Age at that time:

"The Western Bulldogs' strange decision to publicly eject assistant coach Brett Montgomery before the end of the season has left Montgomery in limbo and cast doubt over the so-called August 1 deadline put in place to create transparency between clubs and assistant coaches.

At least for a week.
However, the inner-sanctum mantra at Whitten Oval which dictates that you are either in or out became too strong for Beveridge and his team and saw the assistant encouraged to start looking elsewhere. It was not a good sign that he was not even given the chance to thank the club, after this most recent six-year stint, on its media statement.
Montgomery, the losing candidate when Luke Beveridge was appointed at the end of 2014, was reportedly keen to remain at the club for the finals campaign and that too appeared to be the Bulldogs view."
Caro was clearly barracking for the swift finals exit and banked all of her chips on that scenario. Such a shame for the low rent trash that we flipped the script and won a glorious premiership.

[Sedat]

A handful of posters have consistently questioned the decision to move Montgomery on.

We have definitely missed him and Graham Lowe.
Success has many fathers (2016) and failure is an orphan (2024)

[Happy Days]

I actually think King and Hansen both bailing after 2021 is the one we haven’t recovered from. Hansen leaving in December was particularly brutal.

[GVGjr]

I actually think King and Hansen both bailing after 2021 is the one we haven’t recovered from. Hansen leaving in December was particularly brutal.

That was an interesting decision. Having just been made senior assistant after Kings departure he wanted to take the same job at Carlton even though he had a contract with us.

I think you're right, the whole way the AFL put a cap on the Footy departments spending really squeezed us and it's taken a little while to get back a decent structure. We lost King, Hansen and Corey and had to shuffle Morris into a Coterie managers role.
Maple leaving and then not being replaced until Egan came on board this year was apparently also due to the footy spend.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

A Peter Ryan article.
The Age contacted cubs to give their anonymous assessment of or team post last lost:
"Not a top-four team: How rival recruiters really rate the Bulldogs? list
Peter Ryan
ByPeter Ryan
May 7, 2024 ? 5.00am
The notion that the Western Bulldogs have a top four list is off the mark according to four of the five club list managers The Age asked to anonymously assess the Bulldogs? list following their upset loss to Hawthorn.

Such judgments of the list are at the heart of the many external assessments being made of Luke Beveridge?s performance as coach during 2024, as club president Kylie Watson-Wheeler told the ABC on Monday ?it was too early in the season to panic or make rash decisions?.

Marcus Bontempelli almost inspired his team to victory against the Hawks
Marcus Bontempelli almost inspired his team to victory against the HawksCREDIT:GETTY IMAGES

Four of the five club officials, speaking anonymously to make honest assessments of an opposition list, put the Bulldogs among the bracket of teams that could finish anywhere from fifth to 13th, depending on variables such as luck, injury management, coaching, motivation, team synergy, skill execution and leadership.

Collingwood, Sydney, the Giants, Geelong, the Brisbane Lions, Melbourne and Port Adelaide are considered the main top-four chances this season.

One recruiter described the Bulldogs? list profile as ?confusing?, while another said their defence was ?wobbly?. A third list manager said the Dogs? list indisputably carries top-end talent that is the envy of other clubs, but then it ?just drops away?.

The one list manager impressed with what is at the Bulldogs? disposal put their list ?in the top bracket because of the number of A-graders?.
The Western Bulldogs have Marcus Bontempelli, Aaron Naughton, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, Bailey Smith, Tim English and, eventually, Sam Darcy in that category.

They have a second tier of players ? some premiership players, All-Australians, or both ? who, while still of AFL quality, are not at the peak of their careers. These players include Caleb Daniel, Jack Macrae, Jason Johannisen, Taylor Duryea, Bailey Dale and Tom Liberatore (who was outstanding before being concussed in round five) and players on the up such as Ed Richards, Cody Weightman and Rhylee West.
The has club re-signed Ugle-Hagan for two years and Naughton for nine, locking in a two-pronged attack that is yet to match the heights of Carlton?s forward duo Charlie Curnow and Harry McKay. Once Ugle-Hagan?s contract kicks in next season, that is the output they will be expected to meet as they will be on similar money.

Smith and English remain unsigned beyond this season, while Bontempelli?s and Darcy?s contracts finish at the end of 2025. Bontempelli offers more value than any contract he has ever signed, but there is an acknowledgment he needs others to share his burden while English, last year?s All-Australian ruckman, is holding up his end of the bargain. However, clubs constantly debate how much TPP money should be invested in ruckmen.

The Bulldogs know there are gaps, trading into the top 10 in last year?s draft to secure midfielder Ryley Sanders, having landed Ugle-Hagan and Darcy in consecutive years in 2020 and 2021 at pick one and pick two respectively as a Next Generation Academy graduate and a father-son recruit.

They also drafted tall defender Jedd Busslinger in the first round in 2022. He is yet to play a senior match but has been reasonable in the club?s undefeated VFL team.
With Rory Lobb and father-son Jordan Croft also on their list, one recruiter suggested the club trade out a quality tall, split the pick and add speed to what is ? although damaging when they get on top of the opposition ? a one-paced midfield.

Another recruiter agreed, saying many of the talls operate better ?when they are the main man? and wondered whether that was a reason why the big names weren?t That recruiter said he found the list ?confusing?, with the addition of Lachie Bramble and Oskar Baker as mature-aged players through the pre-season supplemental selection process making ?no sense?.

Even the recruiter who assessed the list as A-Grade admitted that the bottom six players selected in the team each week were not as strong as those who played for other contenders. as well as their fans expected.
One recruiter also said the loss of Josh Dunkley to Brisbane and Patrick Lipinski to Collingwood ? both of whom played in last year?s grand final ? was a misstep the club is yet to recover from, with Adam Treloar the only player traded in since 2020 who has had an impact.

The club-wide review that saw major changes made to the coaching set-up underneath Beveridge was followed by the Peter Jackson review, which backed the coach while recommending that the workload be shared among football department leaders with Matthew Egan being given an operational role as football manager.

But a bounce is yet to occur.

Having missed finals last season after losing eight of their final 11 matches, the club have won just three of their first eight games to sit in 11th spot. Seven of the 13 losses in that period have been by a margin of seven points or fewer.

Although they do not have a first-round pick this season, they would be likely to gain one if the injured Smith departs, with Geelong and Hawthorn among his suitors. Gaining an early pick would be handy, said one recruiter, as it could be split and used to draft talent in what recruiters say is shaping as an even and deep draft.

Watson-Wheeler said finals were the obvious ambition at the start of the season, with the Dogs having finished ninth the year before. They play Richmond this weekend before games against the Giants, Sydney and Collingwood.

?I think that we are in a bit of a phase of evolution within the team in determining how we make sure we deliver that high performance that we have the ability to do,? Watson-Wheeler said.

[bulldogtragic]

Interesting read.

[Grantysghost]

Lippa come back, you can blame it all on Bevo...we were wrong and we just can't live without you....

[Rocket Science]

Interesting read.

Interesting as in revelatory?

Or simply interesting to hear qualified observers lay some of the most obvious list issues bare?

I felt it was pretty diplomatic tbh.

[bulldogtragic]

Interesting as in revelatory?

Or simply interesting to hear qualified observers lay some of the most obvious list issues bare?

I felt it was pretty diplomatic tbh.

The latter. Very diplomatic.

[FrediKanoute]

I don't buy the claim that the list isn't that good.

Bont - a generational player
Treloar - one of the game's top mid's
Libba - one of the game's top inside mid's
Naughton - one of the games best contested marks - back or forward
English - All Australian ruckman
L Jones - probably one of the best backmen in the game at the moment
B Dale - precision personified
E Richards - intercept marker/attacking backman
Flea - after Papley, the best mid sized forward going around
Macrae - the accumulator
JUH - a generational talent
Darcy - rising star

Sure we have or fair share of lesser lights, but we are not a team that should be sitting 3-5 and we are not a team that should be beaten by a mediocre Hawks team.

Something is wrong. Gameplan, motivation, skills, fitness, mental toughness........None of this is going to improve with Bevo remaining in charge.

[jeemak]

I don't buy the claim that the list isn't that good.

Bont - a generational player
Treloar - one of the game's top mid's
Libba - one of the game's top inside mid's
Naughton - one of the games best contested marks - back or forward
English - All Australian ruckman
L Jones - probably one of the best backmen in the game at the moment
B Dale - precision personified
E Richards - intercept marker/attacking backman
Flea - after Papley, the best mid sized forward going around
Macrae - the accumulator
JUH - a generational talent
Darcy - rising star

Sure we have or fair share of lesser lights, but we are not a team that should be sitting 3-5 and we are not a team that should be beaten by a mediocre Hawks team.

Something is wrong. Gameplan, motivation, skills, fitness, mental toughness........None of this is going to improve with Bevo remaining in charge.

What about the rest?

This is Cornes stuff where you look at the good to reasonably good and discount the bad.

[FrediKanoute]

What about the rest?

This is Cornes stuff where you look at the good to reasonably good and discount the bad.

The rest isn't that bad - West, Williams, Daniel, could easily be added to the list. So too JJ, Doc. Throw in Sanders, Gallagher, a developing JOD and KHamis and you have a strong core group. If you ask who is bad and probably not up to it.....that's a harder question.

Maybe it's not good enough to win a flag, but it should be good enough to beat the 2nd bottom team. It's easy to ignore Cornes because of the hyperbole that he creates, but he is right. This team has under performed and a different coach would probably have made more than 2 GF's and probably won more than 1 flag.

[jeemak]

The rest isn't that bad - West, Williams, Daniel, could easily be added to the list. So too JJ, Doc. Throw in Sanders, Gallagher, a developing JOD and KHamis and you have a strong core group. If you ask who is bad and probably not up to it.....that's a harder question.

Maybe it's not good enough to win a flag, but it should be good enough to beat the 2nd bottom team. It's easy to ignore Cornes because of the hyperbole that he creates, but he is right. This team has under performed and a different coach would probably have made more than 2 GF's and probably won more than 1 flag.

We had almost thirty back half turnovers. For plus fifty against. That ain?t coaching or whatever, it?s shit execution.

At some point you need to accept that even if things go OK other teams are better than you.

[FrediKanoute]

We had almost thirty back half turnovers. For plus fifty against. That ain?t coaching or whatever, it?s shit execution.

At some point you need to accept that even if things go OK other teams are better than you.

Disagree, shit execution starts somewhere. To have that many in a game and have that much scored against suggests the Hawks did their homework and pressured the ball handlers or the first kick receivers into a mistake. Yes we have some dodgy kickers. We also have some of the best kickers of a football.

There is something off about the way we play - some say unaccountable, some say an unwillingness to work hard when things aren't going right. That starts somewhere. Are we not committed enough at training? Do we go back to the comments Dunks made about not taking it seriously enough?

Seems to me that somewhere along the way a level of mediocrity was accepted and tolerated - I mean why would you not review a GF loss? I'd maybe understand if it as a heartbeaking loss (like the 97 Prelim), but this was a capitulation from the middle of the 3rd quarter onwards. That decision is a coaching decision. To me it sends the message to the playing group that they don't need to own that loss/fallure. Compare that to the 2019 Headingly Test where Justin Langer made the Aussie team sit through ball by ball the English 2nd innings analysing and owning the mistakes that they made. One team goes on to win the T20 WC, the ODI WC, the World Test Champs and retain the Ashes in Australia and England. The other.......

[Bullies]

We had almost thirty back half turnovers. For plus fifty against. That ain?t coaching or whatever, it?s shit execution.

At some point you need to accept that even if things go OK other teams are better than you. Sides know we turn it over when pressured. Watching the last 2 weeks against Freo and Hawks they don't allow the easy kick out down back. They give us no outlets and put doubts in the kickers mind. Guys like Bramble are good kicks generally when by themsleves but under pressure not so. We need to roll the dice from the backline and move it quick. Part of the reason Daniel is not in the back line is that he held the ball up and ran in circles stopping any fast movement.

[Grantysghost]

We had almost thirty back half turnovers. For plus fifty against. That ain?t coaching or whatever, it?s shit execution.

At some point you need to accept that even if things go OK other teams are better than you.
The Hawks played pretty well their pressure was brilliant.
You won't win any games with that many back half turnovers.
It CAN be partly coaching though if the structure is failing and the outlets aren't there.
You'd need to go through each one.

[ledge]

The Hawks played pretty well their pressure was brilliant.
You won't win any games with that many back half turnovers.
It CAN be partly coaching though if the structure is failing and the outlets aren't there.
You'd need to go through each one.

Basically the problem is when we stop and prop at HB it sends a sign to the opposition we have no idea what to do, when we run and take the game on we are at our best.
You can actually see the change happen before your eyes during games.

[Danjul]

Basically the problem is when we stop and prop at HB it sends a sign to the opposition we have no idea what to do, when we run and take the game on we are at our best.
You can actually see the change happen before your eyes during games.
Too often and in too many predictable circumstances.

after an opposition behind: we often have 3 possessions to get to the 50m arc. Simply gives the opposition time to set up for the next play with an extra player.

When May kicks in Melbourne have usually set up beside the centre square with talls and crumbers already in position. No risk of the JJ-English stuff up.

[Hotdog60]

We take responsibility for recent results, says Treloar

The Bulldogs midfielder has put the onus back on the playing group after a disappointing fortnight of football.

https://resources.westernbulldogs.com.au/photo-resources/2024/05/08/91f6a5dc-4386-4aba-b608-d7d6c6e8d0d3/treloar-iv-feature.jpg?width=1064&height=600

Western Bulldogs midfielder Adam Treloar has put the onus back on the playing group after a disappointing fortnight of football.

Following consecutive losses to Fremantle and Hawthorn, despite the Bulldogs being well and truly in both games late, Treloar said the players need to be held accountable.

“We knew there was obviously going to be quite a bit of pressure, but as a playing group we wholeheartedly take responsibility for the results that we’re putting out there,” he said.

“I feel like you know we’ve been in the games itself, but we’re the ones ultimately out there not performing and not nailing our opportunities.

“(We were) fully expecting the pressure to come for Bevo, but the reality is we’re the ones who are out there performing.

“I feel like the coaches are preparing us really well and really setting us up to go out there and win and have success and ultimately we’re the ones that … aren’t performing.

“So as a playing group we’re really disappointed that we’re not going out there and delivering on what we want to deliver.”

Treloar also strongly backed senior coach Luke Beveridge, jeering at questions suggesting he had lost the playing group.

“What do you think the answer is going to be? Absolutely, of course he does (have the playing group’s support),” Treloar said.

“We love playing for him. He bleeds red, white and blue, he’s a Bulldog man.

“Personally, I love playing for him. I think he’s a great coach and a great human being and I love playing underneath him.

There's a video in the link.

LINK (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1548713/we-take-responsibility-for-recent-results-says-treloar)

[josie]

Thanks Hotdog. Bravo Treloar. Now for actions to match words.

[Eastdog]

It is a results driven business and we haven't quite got the results we have wanted so far. The pressure will always come for Bevo but the players as Treloar has pointed out are just as responsible as well.

If we start winning again over the next few weeks and turn this around then Bevo will be fine but if we struggle then he will be in trouble.

I'm all for change but will see how this season plays out first. I do not want us to make any rash decisions during the season.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

It is a results driven business and we haven't quite got the results we have wanted so far. The pressure will always come for Bevo but the players as Treloar has pointed out are just as responsible as well.

If we start winning again over the next few weeks and turn this around then Bevo will be fine but if we struggle then he will be in trouble.

I'm all for change but will see how this season plays out first. I do not want us to make any rash decisions during the season.

A conciliatory response.
Many supporters however feel great angst and see it as a crisis, a breakdown of game structure and execution in face of a disgraceful end to last season, with one of our best teams ever.

[bornadog]

A conciliatory response.
Many supporters however feel great angst and see it as a crisis, a breakdown of game structure and execution in face of a disgraceful end to last season, with one of our best teams ever.

nah, that was 2016

[Eastdog]

A conciliatory response.
Many supporters however feel great angst and see it as a crisis, a breakdown of game structure and execution in face of a disgraceful end to last season, with one of our best teams ever.

Have we overrated our list that's the next question. We have some of the best top end talent but is our bottom 6 as good as it was in 2016 when we won the flag.

[Grantysghost]

Have we overrated our list that's the next question. We have some of the best top end talent but is our bottom 6 as good as it was in 2016 when we won the flag.
I think this is it easty.

Weve gone from all cake little icing to all icing little cake.

[MrMahatma]

Have we overrated our list that's the next question. We have some of the best top end talent but is our bottom 6 as good as it was in 2016 when we won the flag.

I think this. Plus, "potential" gets in the way of actual consistent output. We look at JUH, Darcy as 2 examples of players that are capable, but who haven't yet put it together, or not consistently.

Our list isn't as good as we kinda think... but it's not as bad as one that should lose to the Hawks.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think this. Plus, "potential" gets in the way of actual consistent output. We look at JUH, Darcy as 2 examples of players that are capable, but who haven't yet put it together, or not consistently.

Our list isn't as good as we kinda think... but it's not as bad as one that should lose to the Hawks.

Yeah this.

We supposedly have top end talent but aside from Bont they don't really perform to that top level. Naughton still plays like a bush league player too often and Marra and Darcy are still potential top liners.

There's a few others I would've liked to have stepped up by now but largely haven't. Richards, Dale, Williams, English, Naughton are way too inconsistent and limited. They haven't really added any strings to their bow.

Do we have a player development issue?

[bornadog]

Yeah this.

We supposedly have top end talent but aside from Bont they don't really perform to that top level. Naughton still plays like a bush league player too often and Marra and Darcy are still potential top liners.

There's a few others I would've liked to have stepped up by now but largely haven't. Richards, Dale, Williams, English, Naughton are way too inconsistent and limited. They haven't really added any strings to their bow.

Do we have a player development issue?

Personally I am very happy with Naughton. He has taken on a new role and is really embracing it. He is on target to kick 50 goals, he is 4th in AFL for forwards with goal assists.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Personally I am very happy with Naughton. He has taken on a new role and is really embracing it. He is on target to kick 50 goals, he is 4th in AFL for forwards with goal assists.

I'm happy with him too for sure. I'd just like to see him become more dynamic up the ground, making better leading patterns rather than going for the pack mark and clean up his disposal. He was doing really well in that Eagles game.

[jazzadogs]

nah, that was 2016

It adds nothing to this discussion but I think our team from 2008-2010 was better than 2016 but in 2016 our opponents weren't as strong. Obviously winning the flag means they are immortal and my favourites etc, but if you put 2009 dogs against 2016 dogs I think 09 wins.
Might start a thread on that if this place is completely falling apart in a few weeks.

[bornadog]

It adds nothing to this discussion but I think our team from 2008-2010 was better than 2016 but in 2016 our opponents weren't as strong. Obviously winning the flag means they are immortal and my favourites etc, but if you put 2009 dogs against 2016 dogs I think 09 wins.
Might start a thread on that if this place is completely falling apart in a few weeks.

I know what you are saying, but 2016 did it - and it was TEAM work, not necessarily better players

PS: Would be a fun discussion - how far back would you go? I loved the 1985 team :D

[Grantysghost]

I know what you are saying, but 2016 did it - and it was TEAM work, not necessarily better players

PS: Would be a fun discussion - how far back would you go? I loved the 1985 team :D
97. Danny Southern, Matthew Dent!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's a good response from Treloar. Egan and KWW spoke/wrote well and got on the front foot.

But ultimately it's just words and we've been good at words for a while, but not much else.

It's an interesting next 4-5 weeks.

[jeemak]

Disagree, shit execution starts somewhere. To have that many in a game and have that much scored against suggests the Hawks did their homework and pressured the ball handlers or the first kick receivers into a mistake. Yes we have some dodgy kickers. We also have some of the best kickers of a football.

There is something off about the way we play - some say unaccountable, some say an unwillingness to work hard when things aren't going right. That starts somewhere. Are we not committed enough at training? Do we go back to the comments Dunks made about not taking it seriously enough?

Seems to me that somewhere along the way a level of mediocrity was accepted and tolerated - I mean why would you not review a GF loss? I'd maybe understand if it as a heartbeaking loss (like the 97 Prelim), but this was a capitulation from the middle of the 3rd quarter onwards. That decision is a coaching decision. To me it sends the message to the playing group that they don't need to own that loss/fallure. Compare that to the 2019 Headingly Test where Justin Langer made the Aussie team sit through ball by ball the English 2nd innings analysing and owning the mistakes that they made. One team goes on to win the T20 WC, the ODI WC, the World Test Champs and retain the Ashes in Australia and England. The other.......

The strange thing is the players have executed under pressure before. Every team puts pressure on every week by varying degrees, and it's not as if last week was the first time we've dealt with heavy pressure.

So I agree, it starts somewhere and we differ in where we think that is.

As for the choice not to do an depth review of the 2021 grand final, nobody knows the extent to which that impacted subsequent performances. It's convenient to say that it did, but we can't act as if that was the first time that group of players had the ball waltzed out the front of contests and have been runover the top of.

[SonofScray]

It's a good response from Treloar. Egan and KWW spoke/wrote well and got on the front foot.

But ultimately it's just words and we've been good at words for a while, but not much else.

It's an interesting next 4-5 weeks.

Treloar said what he had to say. It’s meaningless.

Egan was interesting at least.

KWW earlier in the week sounded like a LinkedIn post.

In all, the club is struggling to be honest with itself. The relationships are strong and it’s a hindrance to giving feedback and making hard decisions. Deeds don’t match words.

Trust for me is absolutely out the window.

[G-Mo77]

Treloar said what he had to say. It?s meaningless.

Egan was interesting at least.

KWW earlier in the week sounded like a LinkedIn post.

In all, the club is struggling to be honest with itself. The relationships are strong and it?s a hindrance to giving feedback and making hard decisions. Deeds don?t match words.

Trust for me is absolutely out the window.

Agree mate. I thought Egan's response about being personal attacks at Bevo is spot on, the media outlets have it in for him. That being said we really have not repaired or attempted to fix that relationship and that is on us.

[mjp]

Agree mate. I thought Egan's response about being personal attacks at Bevo is spot on, the media outlets have it in for him. That being said we really have not repaired or attempted to fix that relationship and that is on us.

Yes - agree. BUT.

When Darcy played the 'personal' card with Cornes a few weeks back and refused to give examples of when the comments became personal it took the wind out of this.

I genuinely believe the club needs to take one of two approaches here:
#1 - Put together some clear evidence of negative comments about the club and coach they perceive to be personal in nature and debate it with the media pack. This would need to be done at a Baines or KWW presser.
#2 - Shutup about it.

I prefer option #2.

[bornadog]

Yes - agree. BUT.

When Darcy played the 'personal' card with Cornes a few weeks back and refused to give examples of when the comments became personal it took the wind out of this.

I genuinely believe the club needs to take one of two approaches here:
#1 - Put together some clear evidence of negative comments about the club and coach they perceive to be personal in nature and debate it with the media pack. This would need to be done at a Baines or KWW presser.
#2 - Shutup about it.

I prefer option #2.

Option 1, we don't win with media, so yes option 2 is best.

[D Mitchell]

Option 1, we don't win with media, so yes option 2 is best.

Better. Comparative adjective, insufficient alternatives to warrant the superlative. :cool:

[Hotdog60]

Just tell the media Bevo will see them at the nets and handle this like men starting Caro. :)

[Critter]

Just tell the media Bevo will see them at the nets and handle this like men starting Caro. :)
What do you mean by this comment?

[GVGjr]

What do you mean by this comment?

Long standing joke on WOOF. The Yarraville nets is where conflict resolution is achieved :)

[G-Mo77]

Yes - agree. BUT.

When Darcy played the 'personal' card with Cornes a few weeks back and refused to give examples of when the comments became personal it took the wind out of this.

I genuinely believe the club needs to take one of two approaches here:
#1 - Put together some clear evidence of negative comments about the club and coach they perceive to be personal in nature and debate it with the media pack. This would need to be done at a Baines or KWW presser.
#2 - Shutup about it.

I prefer option #2.

Well being more open to the media will help. From what I can put together we pretty much run with a closed door and we don't really participate in much programming. Ok that's not such a huge deal for you or I but it does have an effect on the average HUN reader or SEN listener that support our team.

I also wonder if negative press does effect player?

[bornadog]

Well being more open to the media will help. From what I can put together we pretty much run with a closed door and we don't really participate in much programming. Ok that's not such a huge deal for you or I but it does have an effect on the average HUN reader or SEN listener that support our team.

I also wonder if negative press does effect player?

Bevo said today in his presser that the negative talk in the media certainly effects the players

[SonofScray]

Are club members external noise?

[kruder]

Criticism of Bevo and the club is fair make no mistake. If you're happy with this season so far after what went on over the last few years and particually the rhetoric coming out of the club in the off season then you're happy with mediocrity.

We just haven't seen any significant improvement, that game on the weekend was a disgrace there was no system, the forward line was a shambles and once again like the match simulation in preseason couldn't get the ball out of defence which has been an issue for significant parts of the year.

I'm happy to give Bevo and the new staff more time but we need to be better. The clock is ticking...

[jeemak]

Nobody's happy. We just have different views on why we're in this position.

Let's not trot out the accepting mediocrity line, let alone being happy with it.

[EasternWest]

Nobody's happy. We just have different views on why we're in this position.

Let's not trot out the accepting mediocrity line, let alone being happy with it.

That's unfair. If we didn't accept mediocrity half of us would have been chased off this board years ago.

[jeemak]

That's unfair. If we didn't accept mediocrity half of us would have been chased off this board years ago.

As far as this board goes I feel we embrace it!

[MrMahatma]

As far as this board goes I feel we embrace it!

I dare say we reward it!

[jeemak]

I dare say we reward it!

Medalocrity ceremonies for all!

[Hotdog60]

There's nothing wrong with our team it's the teams we play against shouldn't be better than us and that's where the criticism should go. :)

[Mofra]

There's nothing wrong with our team it's the teams we play against shouldn't be better than us and that's where the criticism should go. :)
Yeah we should all just work together. Imagine if all 36 players on the ground kicked towards the same goals?
The scoring would be immense!

[EasternWest]

There's nothing wrong with our team it's the teams we play against shouldn't be better than us and that's where the criticism should go. :)


Yeah we should all just work together. Imagine if all 36 players on the ground kicked towards the same goals?
The scoring would be immense!

I think you guys are onto something

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I think you guys are onto something

You beautiful bastards! you've solved the worlds problems.

[Happy Days]

Accepting mediocrity only counts if you type it in all caps. It’s like MF Doom.

[jeemak]

Amazing that with a win against Hawthorn we'd be sitting in third position right now.

While I'm not happy with five and five, the competition is very even and a good showing over the next few weeks might have us rethinking how our season looks.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Amazing that with a win against Hawthorn we'd be sitting in third position right now.

While I'm not happy with five and five, the competition is very even and a good showing over the next few weeks might have us rethinking how our season looks.

Should go into next week with confidence and a bit of a nothing to lose attitude. The 5-day break sucks though.

Big month ahead.

All of us would love to see this turn around and get back to contending.

[jeemak]

Should go into next week with confidence and a bit of a nothing to lose attitude. The 5-day break sucks though.

Big month ahead.

All of us would love to see this turn around and get back to contending.

It's getting worse and worse every year so I expect it, but the hypertension around the first five to seven rounds and the media wanting heads to roll and putting a line through teams is ridiculous.

The season is a slog and the teams are so even. Then you get some distortion like we did at the start of this year and it's hard to tell how good or otherwise teams actually are. It used to be that you'd await round twelve to fifteen to really know as most sides had played each other once, but that's not the case anymore.

Next week is huge for us. We should be super confident that we can give Sydney a shake.

[JanLorMill]

2 out of next 4 wins should get Bevo the rest of the year. Miss the 8 he should walk.

[ledge]

It's getting worse and worse every year so I expect it, but the hypertension around the first five to seven rounds and the media wanting heads to roll and putting a line through teams is ridiculous.

The season is a slog and the teams are so even. Then you get some distortion like we did at the start of this year and it's hard to tell how good or otherwise teams actually are. It used to be that you'd await round twelve to fifteen to really know as most sides had played each other once, but that's not the case anymore.

Next week is huge for us. We should be super confident that we can give Sydney a shake.

Sydney losing to the tigers is unbelievable.

[Happy Days]

.Lol

[jeemak]

2 out of next 4 wins should get Bevo the rest of the year. Miss the 8 he should walk.

It might be that we're not looking at things in such a linear way right now.

There's still six or seven teams better credentialed than we are, including the one we played tonight. Maybe two or three of those teams don't meet expectations and it opens things up for us, but at the same time there's us and three or four other teams vying to replace them if that happens.

The composition of our team from last year to this week has changed, as it has from the start of the year to this week. Not telling you how to experience footy, but like I said after last week's game I'm just going to try and enjoy this season without huge expectations because expectations unfounded don't make for great footy watching.

[bulldogtragic]

It might be that we're not looking at things in such a linear way right now.

There's still six or seven teams better credentialed than we are, including the one we played tonight. Maybe two or three of those teams don't meet expectations and it opens things up for us, but at the same time there's us and three or four other teams vying to replace them if that happens.

The composition of our team from last year to this week has changed, as it has from the start of the year to this week. Not telling you how to experience footy, but like I said after last week's game I'm just going to try and enjoy this season without huge expectations because expectations unfounded don't make for great footy watching.

Interesting thing that. Would you have taken 5/5 with the second highest percentage with debuts for Bramble, Harmes & Coff, with Khamis back in defence again. Plus debuts for kids in Sanders, Gallagher, Clarke & Freijah? Including two rising stars. And with time out to Weightman & Marra (and JJ last night) plus senior guys with bigger reps playing VFL in Lobb, Daniel & Macrae.

At the same time, losing every close game sucks big time. Win some of them and the clubs right about where we should be. But we haven’t won them yet.

[jazzadogs]

Interesting thing that. Would you have taken 5/5 with the second highest percentage with debuts for Bramble, Harmes & Coff, with Khamis back in defence again. Plus debuts for kids in Sanders, Gallagher, Clarke & Freijah? Including two rising stars. And with time out to Weightman & Marra (and JJ last night) plus senior guys with bigger reps playing VFL in Lobb, Daniel & Macrae.

At the same time, losing every close game sucks big time. Win some of them and the clubs right about where we should be. But we haven’t won them yet.

Plus Libba missing games/being affected in games. Bont playing sore.

The Hawks loss is still inexcusable but easily attributed to poor skills in the back half. We're trending the right way now but the challenge is on the players to maintain this level.

[bulldogtragic]

Plus Libba missing games/being affected in games. Bont playing sore.

The Hawks loss is still inexcusable but easily attributed to poor skills in the back half. We're trending the right way now but the challenge is on the players to maintain this level.

Yep. We should’ve won Freo, Hawks & Cats. If we can overcome whatever is holding us back in these games/losses then that’s the difference. As you say, we need the players to keep up yesterdays effort.

[Grantysghost]

*cough*

[JanLorMill]

Next weeks game is make or break really. Miss the finals it should be all over for bevo

[bulldogtragic]

Next weeks game is make or break really. Miss the finals it should be all over for bevo

Thing is it’s all about the rebuild now. The question is rebuild into next year with a new coach or recontract Bevo for another couple of years and give him time to rebuild without the fear of results.

The club thought he was delivering them top four finishes for years now and has failed miserably at that expectation.

Maybe a new coach for the rebuild is the way to go pragmatically, taking all emotion away.

[jeemak]

He's too close to even with the ledger coming into the bye for him to be sacked now, and there's no way you can pin tonight's loss on him given our injury list, the fact we've changed structure/ approach (from one that clearly wasn't working) and are blooding kids against a side with two byes this season to our none.

At this point unless things really go pear shaped over the coming weeks he's with us to the end of the season.

[Grantysghost]

Who's playing evolution bingo in the presser?

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMTkzeGdtNW94MnJtbDZraTYweDYxYm1ydmxkcXd4Y TE4ZG5qazVqZSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/ummeQH0c3jdm2o3Olp/giphy.gif

[jeemak]

Who's playing evolution bingo in the presser?

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMTkzeGdtNW94MnJtbDZraTYweDYxYm1ydmxkcXd4Y TE4ZG5qazVqZSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/ummeQH0c3jdm2o3Olp/giphy.gif

I'm still worn out by Rhylee West Bingo, not sure I have another variation of it in me.

[bulldogtragic]

He's too close to even with the ledger coming into the bye for him to be sacked now, and there's no way you can pin tonight's loss on him given our injury list, the fact we've changed structure/ approach (from one that clearly wasn't working) and are blooding kids against a side with two byes this season to our none.

At this point unless things really go pear shaped over the coming weeks he's with us to the end of the season.

Agree.

Moreso thinking of making a decision and headhunting a replacement in the shadows if we want a new coach to oversee the rebuild.

[comrade]

Play the Buss!

[MrMahatma]

I’ll coach.

But can you guarantee me that Darcy, Naughton, Richards, Weightman, Smith and JJ play every week?

And can we have as many byes as the teams we’re against?

Reckon the sack Bevo narrative is a bit meh…

[angelopetraglia]

In the last four weeks we have played both Grand Finalists, a team that lost the Prelim by 1 point and the top of the ladder team with a 9-1 record.

We went 2-2 in those games. Thats a pass isn?t it?

[angelopetraglia]

We also did that losing players to injury ever week and down on rotations in many of those games with key midfielders having to play many more minutes than normal which would create cumulative fatigue.

[bulldogtragic]

In the last four weeks we have played both Grand Finalists, a team that lost the Prelim by 1 point and the top of the ladder team with a 9-1 record.

We went 2-2 in those games. Thats a pass isn?t it?

50%. Maybe if you’re a lazy arts student…

Mind you Lions were below us and Collingwood had a heap of injuries too.

[Grantysghost]

In the last four weeks we have played both Grand Finalists, a team that lost the Prelim by 1 point and the top of the ladder team with a 9-1 record.

We went 2-2 in those games. Thats a pass isn?t it?
It is.

[jeemak]

Not sure he said evolution once?

[jeemak]

Agree.

Moreso thinking of making a decision and headhunting a replacement in the shadows if we want a new coach to oversee the rebuild.

I know of only one coach who has led us through a rebuild and gotten us to a grand final.

Whoever is better placed than Beveridge, who was very measured and on point in his presser tonight, to lead the rebuild then they might take some finding.

That's not me saying there's nobody else out there more equipped to do it, but a bird in the hand......and all that.

If we're two down at the bye then it isn't looking good for him. If it gets worse after that then I don't see how we can justify keeping him in place.

And if we move him on we need to learn a lesson and keep our executive away from bold commentary around our list and expectations. They're too conflicted to make a rational call.

[jeemak]

50%. Maybe if you’re a lazy arts student…

Mind you Lions were below us and Collingwood had a heap of injuries too.

You're better than cherry picking to remove context from a discussion BT. You know footy is complex week to week, don't pretend it isn't.

[SonofScray]

He?ll get to the end of the year.

But there is no planet where he or we benefit from him coaching next year.

Lots of factors tonight, but regardless, it?s closer to the norm than the last few weeks have been.

If you want him gone, like I do and have, that won?t have changed at all over the past month. There?s been nothing to waver on.

[GVGjr]

I can't see why we change anything during the season unless he was to jump for whatever reason.
I wonder if we would even consider secretly starting to canvas the market before the seasons end?

[jeemak]

I can't see why we change anything during the season unless he was to jump for whatever reason.
I wonder if we would even consider secretly starting to canvas the market before the seasons end?

With the way Beveridge has talked to date, then I think it would be really clear to both parties how this will end and I also think both parties would have agreed a search in the background is the right thing to do.

Beveridge isn't Alistair Clarkson or Mick Malthouse, when it comes to decisions of organisations and how they are goverened/ executed. He's not somebody who has only known football decision making, he's been exposed to stuff the rest of us have been where emotion mainly comes out of it and pragmatism reigns supreme.

This is also where having KWW and Baines in place will benefit us. Both are highly competent administrators and most likely ruthless when it comes down to it. They won't be dragged down by populism/ emotion in the same way the Jeffs and the Eddies were. They'll do what suits them first and foremost, with a mind that what suits them also suits the club.

He'll go and we'll have a plan, if that's what it takes.

[bulldogtragic]

You're better than cherry picking to remove context from a discussion BT. You know footy is complex week to week, don't pretend it isn't.

Merely suggesting 2-2 isn’t a great outcome. I still can’t work out last night.

[soupman]

I think he's going alright.

Last night's moves weren't bad, JOD as a defensive forward was the kind of pragmatic move we don't usually make. Think he's had a really good month after obviously a tough period and has basically quelled most criticism.

[Sedat]

Merely suggesting 2-2 isn?t a great outcome. I still can?t work out last night.
In hindsight, last night was not surprising at all. It looked like one too many key soldiers out, and we are not yet a side that can absorb so many injuries to key structural personnel (Naughts, Darcy, Weightman, Richards, even JJ for his run and carry) as well as plug-in role players - guys like Scott, Harmes and Coffield add flexibility all over the ground when we need to address match-up issues, and they are far more bankable than the likes of McNeil and Buku.

In 2024 we are a 6-12 team with ambitions of adapting/rebuilding on the run to become a contender. We have the occasional disappointing games (Essendon, Hawthorn) and above expectation games (GWS, Collingwood) and the rest we are performing pretty much to expectation.

2024 has been far different from the abominations of 2022 and 2023, even if the raw results are comparable.

[JanLorMill]

With the personnel missing and even if our midfield improves it?s going to be difficult to beat Freo. Sean Darcy/Jackson combination is a worry. So 7-7 with a win then in no order Carlton, Sydney in Sydney, 2 away games in Adelaide, Melbourne, Geelong away, gws at Ballarat. 2 North games pencil as wins. Need at least 12 wins? Its time to start planning for a new future

[mighty_west]

With the personnel missing and even if our midfield improves it?s going to be difficult to beat Freo. Sean Darcy/Jackson combination is a worry. So 7-7 with a win then in no order Carlton, Sydney in Sydney, 2 away games in Adelaide, Melbourne, Geelong away, gws at Ballarat. 2 North games pencil as wins. Need at least 12 wins? Its time to start planning for a new future

Well that's what we have been doing since round 1, the Evolution means evolving into the future with playing some of the kids who are actually putting their hands up, Busslinger will most likely play with Keath out as another who has been playing consistent good football in the VFL, like Sanders, Freijah, Darcy etc, to have a strong culture you still need experience around the kids otherwise you end up like North, reward the kids who deserve a shot.

[GVGjr]

With the personnel missing and even if our midfield improves it?s going to be difficult to beat Freo. Sean Darcy/Jackson combination is a worry. So 7-7 with a win then in no order Carlton, Sydney in Sydney, 2 away games in Adelaide, Melbourne, Geelong away, gws at Ballarat. 2 North games pencil as wins. Need at least 12 wins? Its time to start planning for a new future

I agree with a lot of what you have detailed and we haven't made the progress like we would have hoped for.
What the club needs to consider now is if we start canvassing some candidates or if we think there are some valid reasons for our inability to get on a roll.
It will be fascinating to see if the club is chips in with Bevo or not. From what we have seen in the media and some of his coaching moves is that he's got a great understanding of where we are falling short and it's more about if he can inspire the players to lift their performances.

[mjp]

In hindsight, last night was not surprising at all.

I tried to tell you...

[1eyedog]

He's too close to even with the ledger coming into the bye for him to be sacked now, and there's no way you can pin tonight's loss on him given our injury list, the fact we've changed structure/ approach (from one that clearly wasn't working) and are blooding kids against a side with two byes this season to our none.

At this point unless things really go pear shaped over the coming weeks he's with us to the end of the season.

And next season. He's with us until the end of his contract.

[1eyedog]

I agree with a lot of what you have detailed and we haven't made the progress like we would have hoped for.
What the club needs to consider now is if we start canvassing some candidates or if we think there are some valid reasons for our inability to get on a roll.
It will be fascinating to see if the club is chips in with Bevo or not. From what we have seen in the media and some of his coaching moves is that he's got a great understanding of where we are falling short and it's more about if he can inspire the players to lift their performances.

It's been pretty clear we are all in on him. The previous month was far worse than this month. I think Soup said above Bevo is going OK. Wins against the Pies and GWS away were big for him and us. We lose Naughton and Richards against the Swans which swung the game against a 8/1 team on top of the ladder. Last night was a slow car crash. You can't compete against a top 4 list with 6 of your best 10 players out.

Bevo was on a hiding to nothing.

[Sedat]

I tried to tell you...
I was too smart by half attempting to predict the potential psychology of Brisbane for the remainder of this season. They are clearly in it for all the marbles in 2024, and spent their bye week very wisely in planning and preparation for us.

[JanLorMill]

Brisbane have been horrible all year. Against us they are stars again. Can’t lose at home to interstate teams then believe we are going ok

[Sedat]

I agree with a lot of what you have detailed and we haven't made the progress like we would have hoped for.
What the club needs to consider now is if we start canvassing some candidates or if we think there are some valid reasons for our inability to get on a roll.
It will be fascinating to see if the club is chips in with Bevo or not. From what we have seen in the media and some of his coaching moves is that he's got a great understanding of where we are falling short and it's more about if he can inspire the players to lift their performances.
The bolded bit is a savage indictment on the entire club from the president down with regard to 2022 and 2023, but not at all in 2024. It has been obvious for a few months now that we are rebuilding on the run and regenerating both the game plan and the list - better late than never.

We wasted 2 years as a club post the 2021 GF but we aren't wasting time this year. Doesn't mean we aren't going to make mistakes, but I believe what we are doing in 2024 will give us a better team with more scope for sustained contention in 2025-2028. That means we will break a few eggs making that omelette.

[mighty_west]

Brisbane have been horrible all year. Against us they are stars again. Can’t lose home to interstate team then believe we are going ok

I reckon a combo of factors, you look at the Brisbane team they had on the park last night and how can they have been so dismal up to this point? They played like they looked on field with a strong team across the board, their record at Marvel also says that perhaps last night was no shock given they love that ground yet aren't so great at the G, think it's something like 9 wins and 2 losses at Marvel in recent times.

Just think a few positional changes we didn't get quite right and the key outs hurt us in the end, apparently (not sure how i know) but the Pies last week may have had a few out which we were able to exploit given the changes in our overall game style to get on top, the master stroke by Bevo to pressure the next in line player after Daicos etc etc.

[mjp]

Brisbane have been horrible all year. Against us they are stars again. Can’t lose home to interstate team then believe we are going ok

You watch far too much footy to believe this is true.

Brisbane have a lot of talent - 5x top 4 finishes in a row or something - and whilst they have had a poor start to the year they haven't lost their ability. They've just had their mid-year reset and would have spent a heap of time pulling together their goals/plans for the 2nd half...key to all of that would have been what happened at Marvel.

Couple that with a couple of key outs and just the fact that we have been playing with a fair bit of intensity really since the Melbourne game - we haven't really had a down week - this was 100% coming. Is all of this an excuse? Probs not I suppose but I just don't understand what we are all expecting...

The bottom half of our side last night was inexperienced at best and and not up to it at worst...hell, VDM who most on here would put into the 'barely competent' category held his place after being subbed out with a hammy last week...no way would he have played if those below were up to it...

I understand how this is all Bevo's fault and I'm happy enough with that, but one of this side's greatest issues remains the losses in close games. My take: If we wanted to beat Brisbane last night, then we should have looked at the game vs Sydney as a likely loss and taken the chance to rest a few...instead, that gallant display going into a wire-to-wire game against the Pies - both in prime time and THAT 100% matters - into another prime time game...pressure has been up for a long time, the fall was coming.

And yes, the boys in 2016 won 4x finals in a row which are of course prime time and all, but if we acknowledge for a second that was a special group and efforts like that are unlikely to be replicated, well...

[ledge]

I think this loss wasn’t unexpected and if your wanting to axe anyone over this game your joking.
All teams have bad games. The side we played is proof of that , they also had 2 weeks to plan against us and know our injuries.
We have injected a few young players who are just getting used to AFL let alone the fatigue that comes with.
The bye is coming two weeks to late.
I was pissed off last night as we should be but the next day when we cool down and look at reality we are going ok.
Busslinger will come in next week I would think along with Richard’s.
Darcy and maybe Harmes and Weightman after the bye.
If we can get a win against Freo we are on even ledger and should be a lot better after the bye.

[JanLorMill]

You watch far too much footy to believe this is true.

Brisbane have a lot of talent - 5x top 4 finishes in a row or something - and whilst they have had a poor start to the year they haven't lost their ability. They've just had their mid-year reset and would have spent a heap of time pulling together their goals/plans for the 2nd half...key to all of that would have been what happened at Marvel.

Couple that with a couple of key outs and just the fact that we have been playing with a fair bit of intensity really since the Melbourne game - we haven't really had a down week - this was 100% coming. Is all of this an excuse? Probs not I suppose but I just don't understand what we are all expecting...

The bottom half of our side last night was inexperienced at best and and not up to it at worst...hell, VDM who most on here would put into the 'barely competent' category held his place after being subbed out with a hammy last week...no way would he have played if those below were up to it...

I understand how this is all Bevo's fault and I'm happy enough with that, but one of this side's greatest issues remains the losses in close games. My take: If we wanted to beat Brisbane last night, then we should have looked at the game vs Sydney as a likely loss and taken the chance to rest a few...instead, that gallant display going into a wire-to-wire game against the Pies - both in prime time and THAT 100% matters - into another prime time game...pressure has been up for a long time, the fall was coming.

And yes, the boys in 2016 won 4x finals in a row which are of course prime time and all, but if we acknowledge for a second that was a special group and efforts like that are unlikely to be replicated, well...
I get that but We beat Brisbane last year when we were in worse form with a first gamer and mccomb as sub. Not saying it’s all Bevo’s fault just that we are going well at this moment. Last week vs Collingwood we were fortunate. No home team in afl cops 4-16 frees vs interstate sides. We are 6-7 out of the 8 and that indicates most how things are.

[Grantysghost]

I tried to tell you...
That was some nostradamus level shit.

[jeemak]

The bolded bit is a savage indictment on the entire club from the president down with regard to 2022 and 2023, but not at all in 2024. It has been obvious for a few months now that we are rebuilding on the run and regenerating both the game plan and the list - better late than never.

We wasted 2 years as a club post the 2021 GF but we aren't wasting time this year. Doesn't mean we aren't going to make mistakes, but I believe what we are doing in 2024 will give us a better team with more scope for sustained contention in 2025-2028. That means we will break a few eggs making that omelette.

I feel the 2022 season's outcomes should have resulted in more affirmative action from the club. The depth that performed in 2021 had every right to be backed in, and the senior core needed to be given another shot. But in hindsight 2023 should have had a different complexion with more player turnover and more senior cages rattled after the failings of 2022.

What I found totally irresponsible from the club executive was the mollycoddling of the media position about where the media thought we were at versus where we truly were - and what the club executive thought the members/ supporters wanted to hear. So much of the noise experienced these past eighteen months would have been cancelled out if they weren't so bullish about a list and playing group with issues across a wide spectrum.

And at an operational level it's clear egos got in the way of pragmatism almost resulting in a catastrophic shit show.

Things seem better now.....for now.

[SonofScray]

I recall being OK with the contract extension because it would offer some certainty and cancel out a lot of media noise, letting the club go about its business of preparing for a change. My understanding was that it was not going to sting payout wise with the 6 month rule.

Was wrong on that front and the no. of years the extension chalked up in real terms.

That’s where Grant, Baines and KWW have come under fire from me too. I thought they should have been more brave and ran with that plan, effectively 18 months earlier than where they are now. Hated that they kicked the can down the road. But it seems that perhaps with the exception of Grant, it was a legit, all in on the coach. Not PR spin, just 100% job for life stuff. Which it is clear he has now. Bevo stays until he doesn’t want to be here.


Throw enough time and talent at it and it’ll work too. Probably win a flag in the 15th year of his tenure. Darcy kicks 10 in a grand final playing in the ruck. Marra 4.7 from CHF. It’ll be glorious.



But, most of us had finals this year as the decision point. Ladder prediction time!

I have us finishing 10th, with good percentage and missing by a slim margin.

The good percentage and slim margin will be tempting to folk who don’t want to see blood shed. Even for myself, the return of some joy into our footy, a bit of biff, pace and new faces taking on key roles has moved me from gleefully swinging the axe, to respectfully and solemnly doing it.


Roller coaster post but we are at a point now where:

1. Preparations start and the Bevo era ends when we miss finals
2. Extend him further this summer



Really don’t want to have this conversation all of next year too.

[GVGjr]

I think it's more than fair to start conducting a review on what hasn't gone right for us so far this season and to see if Bevo is the right man to lead our list going forward. I cut Bevo and the players a lot of slack for the distractions of training at Skinner Reserve leading into the 2023 season but unless there is something else holding us back this year that we aren't aware of this was supposed to be a year where results started to come.
I'm not going to be distracted by the whole 'look at how many players that haven't played 50 games yet' excuse that gets rolled out because it's the path we have chosen. It's not a great measure anyway.
We recruited some players with senior experience to offset the lack of development of some of the younger players on the list.

This is a results business, the club said they rated the list so we do need to hear why we haven't quite measured up so far. We've had a rush with some injuries over the last couple of weeks but prior to that we had what would have been regarded as a reasonably healthy list.

I get Bevo is the front man and coaches normally cop it in the neck when they results don't meet expectations but the all the senior people at the club need to provide some clarity.
Bevo's done well at explaining our losses and fronting the media etc in the last 6 weeks or so and I remain in the camp that says lets wait until we see a lot more of the season before making any decisions regarding the coach.= but we can start having a look at what is and isn't working.

[Bulldog Joe]

I have been in the sack Bevo camp since 2018.
The results in 2021 didn't reduce that as I believe he cost us the flag by allowing soft efforts against Essendon and Hawthorn that meant a significantly harder road to the GF.

Right now I am actually happier with his performance as we have made vast improvement.

The Brisbane game I can see as an aberration due to the compounded fatigue over the past month against a side with a chance to reset on what had been wrong with their season.

Unfortunately the Freo game has the same look to it, but we can certainly get rolling after the bye and be a real threat when we get some personnel back on the park.

[GVGjr]

What's your thoughts now Joe? Has he done enough to keep his job for next season or do we need to see more of the season?

[Bulldog Joe]

What's your thoughts now Joe? Has he done enough to keep his job for next season or do we need to see more of the season?

The way things are looking my inclination is he can see out the contract.

[GVGjr]

The way things are looking my inclination is he can see out the contract.

It's a real interesting position because if we assume that he starts the 2025 season as the coach then the media focus will be right on us in the early part of the season repeatedly asking the question if we are going to put another contract in front of him.
How the club and Bevo handle that be an interesting exercise. I would imagine Grant and Bains will need to front the media a lot more and if the decision is that we won't put another one in front of him I can't see him coaching out the season.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Bevo or No Bevo. This is the question.

I can accept that we are missing some serious talent and yes we?ll be better after the bye.

My issue and what I truly can not understand is he never has a plan B or changes things up.

Why not move Bont forward in the second quarter to break the tag. Why use the sub 10 minutes into the last quarter when the game is over. This list goes on. I get he backs in the guys but year after year he struggles to swallow his pride and hi with something different on game day.

He is always happy to go with different at selection table but not so brave on game day.

[azabob]

Bevo or No Bevo. This is the question.

I can accept that we are missing some serious talent and yes we?ll be better after the bye.

My issue and what I truly can not understand is he never has a plan B or changes things up.

Why not move Bont forward in the second quarter to break the tag. Why use the sub 10 minutes into the last quarter when the game is over. This list goes on. I get he backs in the guys but year after year he struggles to swallow his pride and hi with something different on game day.

He is always happy to go with different at selection table but not so brave on game day.

I find the plan b discussion interesting.

Do other teams have a plan B mid game? I am not sure plan b is actually a thing and honestly I think there would be less than a handful of posters on woof would be able to truly spot a change mid game.

In the after match press a conference Beveridge said we changed some things up (again not sure we know enough of plan A detail to know what that was).

Not sure sending Bont forward would have changed our fortunes, our issue was winning the contested ball and lose ball. Taking away our best player from there would not be a move I would make.

Khamis was a sub purely for key position player back up. Bevo mentioned that it is not the best use of the sub but we needed to do it.

[azabob]

Bevo or No Bevo. This is the question. .

In the most simplest form yes that is the question.

For mine we need to decide the answer this by the end of our last game in 2024.

If Beveridge coaches in 2025 and leaves during or after the 2025 season I honestly do not see the point of it. It would be akin to a gap year.

FWIW I am a Beveridge supporter and I believe in the direction we are heading. If we continue with the same trajectory in the second half of the season and continue playing younger players I think we should back him in.

It is a massive 12 weeks for the club both on and off field.

[DOG GOD]

For mine it’s a simple equation.

If we MISS finals (which is very likely), then Bevo GOES end of year

If we MAKE finals, then Bevo STAYS to see out his contract

I’m still not convinced since GF of 21, that this squad is playing for the coach…the odd player yes, but as a team, no.

[mighty_west]

I find the plan b discussion interesting.

Do other teams have a plan B mid game? I am not sure plan b is actually a thing and honestly I think there would be less than a handful of posters on woof would be able to truly spot a change mid game.

In the after match press a conference Beveridge said we changed some things up (again not sure we know enough of plan A detail to know what that was).

Not sure sending Bont forward would have changed our fortunes, our issue was winning the contested ball and lose ball. Taking away our best player from there would not be a move I would make.

Khamis was a sub purely for key position player back up. Bevo mentioned that it is not the best use of the sub but we needed to do it.

The issue for mine was that our structure was out of whack, we needed JOD back with Jones leaving his man free to do what he wanted, Bont was being heavily tagged and Libba hardly fired a shot so that put too much pressure on the other 2 starting mids, so give Bont Naughton's position and give West, Sanders, Garcia, Gags more mid time to mix it up a bit.

[bulldogtragic]

In the most simplest form yes that is the question.

For mine we need to decide the answer this by the end of our last game in 2024.

If Beveridge coaches in 2025 and leaves during or after the 2025 season I honestly do not see the point of it. It would be akin to a gap year.

FWIW I am a Beveridge supporter and I believe in the direction we are heading. If we continue with the same trajectory in the second half of the season and continue playing younger players I think we should back him in.

It is a massive 12 weeks for the club both on and off field.

I agree leaving into a rebuild would be dumb by the club. Either he goes at the end of year or give him an extension. There no being half pregnant with him now. He sees the rebuild out or we get someone new to see it through and change up the coaching style/ideas.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I’m still not convinced since GF of 21, that this squad is playing for the coach…the odd player yes, but as a team, no.

I think it?s difficult as players need to play for each other snd not the coach. I think we all know that Bevo has backed in many players that we all have questioned over the years.

I think no matter what we stick with home until next year, the kids he is blooding will be mouth watering for any coach should we be any to move him in. It?s just to early right now.

[whythelongface]

For mine it’s a simple equation.

If we MISS finals (which is very likely), then Bevo GOES end of year

If we MAKE finals, then Bevo STAYS to see out his contract

I’m still not convinced since GF of 21, that this squad is playing for the coach…the odd player yes, but as a team, no.

I don’t see it that way. If we make finals and get kicked out week one then there is little difference to finishing tenth. What we need to see is a developing list blended with experience that play an exciting brand and show competitiveness against the top teams. Bar Friday‘s result the last month has shown a rejuvenated team that has been playing good footy. I feel in the best interests of the team that Bevo at least sees out this current contract and hopefully extends, all things going well next year

[macca]

I find the plan b discussion interesting.

Do other teams have a plan B mid game? I am not sure plan b is actually a thing and honestly I think there would be less than a handful of posters on woof would be able to truly spot a change mid game.

In the after match press a conference Beveridge said we changed some things up (again not sure we know enough of plan A detail to know what that was).

Not sure sending Bont forward would have changed our fortunes, our issue was winning the contested ball and lose ball. Taking away our best player from there would not be a move I would make.

Khamis was a sub purely for key position player back up. Bevo mentioned that it is not the best use of the sub but we needed to do it.

We were very fortunate to be 4 goals zero behinds up in the second quarter. I felt after the Lions had kicked 2 goals ahead, it was time to change things. It would have been one of those, oh no.. they opposition are going to get a run on of 5 goals, which did eventually happen.

Not sure if the players have a gear to play defensively and keepings off. Either we don't have the kicking skills or the body strength in the younger players at the moment to hold a position. The lack of tackling pressure is a good indication .

[kruder]

We wont make the 8, but if we( players the most important part of the we) continue to see enough evidence that the refresh will bear fruits long term then I think Bevo will coach again next year.

The club has been too slow to react to changes in game style while overstating its list, there is no doubt we didn't make enough change post 22( on and off field) while not playing Smith inside last year after losing Dunkley has cost us significantly( forced to spend 2 first rounders on Sanders as a hedge to him leaving/cover an ageing midfield).

I still think after seeing Bevo on 360 and his performance in the media over the last month has given me enough belief that his still has the passion and hunger to take advantage of this generational tall talent but no doubt we will have to see more of the last months form than early season for him to keep his job at the end of the year.

Friday night was painful to watch( legitimate excuses this time) but I must say I have really enjoyed going to the footy over the last month. Watching Richards in the midfield has been so refreshing, Darcy going to another level ahead of the ball while Garcia just gives off 2016 vibes with his attack on the ball while having some time which good players have.

I hope its better late then never for Bevo fingers crossed.

[JanLorMill]

Couldn’t care less about how our coach performs in the media. Concentrate on the setup and game day. Maybe we have made changes but the results aren’t there. Still get beaten by the same teams, still questionable efforts, still dropping games we shouldn’t, still no room for a hard tag when evidence shows it has influence, etc.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm on the fence.

We've been pretty good since the Richmond game. Friday Night sucked but we look desperate for a rest and we're simply down too many quality players.

The spirit of the group has looked different to 2022-2023.

I'll write the Brisbane game off, but only that one. I expect a more committed performance vs Fremantle.

If we continue to show spirit and fight, and Bevo wants to lead a rebuild, I'm inclined to go that way but it means getting on the same page collectively and making some big calls on a number of big name players.

If we revert back to how we were prior to the Richmond game, I'll be wanting a new approach for 2025.

[Hotdog60]

I don't know if there's another coach out there that would do any better. You may get an quick response and finish in finals but I don't think this group has enough talent to sustain long term success.
We need a rebuild which I think is quietly happening at the moment so I may be the odd one out but if we are rebuilding stick fat with Bevo to see what the next generation looks like but what ever happens I'm a Bulldog supporter and it's more about the club than the personnel which can change on a regular basis.

[JanLorMill]

It’s hard to claim we are rebuilding even quietly when we are continually picking old players and then young players in not their future role.

[Grantysghost]

I don't know if there's another coach out there that would do any better. You may get an quick response and finish in finals but I don't think this group has enough talent to sustain long term success.
We need a rebuild which I think is quietly happening at the moment so I may be the odd one out but if we are rebuilding stick fat with Bevo to see what the next generation looks like but what ever happens I'm a Bulldog supporter and it's more about the club than the personnel which can change on a regular basis.
Well maybe you could say that about Nathan Buckley too.
It's hard to know, but as we saw when Bevo came in the right guy can really unite the joint.

[bornadog]

It?s hard to claim we are rebuilding even quietly when we are continually picking old players and then young players in not their future role.

Who are the old players continually picked and who should get a game?

We had 9 players with less than 50 games ( half the team) and only 2 with 50-100 - the cupboard is bare.

Players not picked : Arty, Clarke, Buss, Lachie Smith, Bedendo, Cleary.

I can argue maybe Buss should get a game, but who gets dropped? (now Keath out but has been ok) As for the others, they do not have the form to be picked.

We are decimated with injuries which is also not helping.

[azabob]

Well maybe you could say that about Nathan Buckley too.
It's hard to know, but as we saw when Bevo came in the right guy can really unite the joint.

Yep. It is hard to know. I am sure clubs like Adelaide, Gold Coast, north Melbourne, Saints, Essendon, Carlton would love some coaching stability.

The day will come when Bevo moves on and when that day happens I hope somehow we land a generational type coach but chances are that we will not.

[mighty_west]

It’s hard to claim we are rebuilding even quietly when we are continually picking old players and then young players in not their future role.

For a start we are not in a rebuild stage, we are evolving the team to play some of the kids who are actually putting their hands up in the VFL before getting a game, again we don't want to be North and play too many kids, you still need experience in the side like the good teams and clubs with good a strong culture do, Geelong, Pies, Swans etc, they just don't play too many kids at once and bottom out, they take dips but come back up just as fast.

Yeah sure playing Keath for instance was seen as going backwards, but what it did was give the team stability as playing both JOD and Buku down back was getting us found out, he helped straighten up our structure and puts less pressure on JOD and Freijah playing back there.

Do we drop Jones because he's old?

[mjp]

Yep. It is hard to know. I am sure clubs like Adelaide, Gold Coast, north Melbourne, Saints, Essendon, Carlton would love some coaching stability.



Adelaide have actually had a fair bit of stability. Nicks isn't in year 2.

[angelopetraglia]

Adelaide have actually had a fair bit of stability. Nicks isn't in year 2.

Nicks is the first Adelaide coach in history to survive not making the finals two years in a row.

[azabob]

Adelaide have actually had a fair bit of stability. Nicks isn't in year 2.

True, but they are cycling through coaches looking for THE ONE.

I will be surprised if Nicks is in the chair come 2025.

[G-Mo77]

Bevo hacked Tom Morris' X account, give him 3 more years. Hahaha. JK.

[angelopetraglia]

True, but they are cycling through coaches looking for THE ONE.

I will be surprised if Nicks is in the chair come 2025.

Yes. It depends on the view they take.

Damien Hardwick coached Richmond for seven seasons without winning a final. Then they won three flags in four years.

[JanLorMill]

Who are the old players continually picked and who should get a game?

We had 9 players with less than 50 games ( half the team) and only 2 with 50-100 - the cupboard is bare.

Players not picked : Arty, Clarke, Buss, Lachie Smith, Bedendo, Cleary.

I can argue maybe Buss should get a game, but who gets dropped? (now Keath out but has been ok) As for the others, they do not have the form to be picked.

We are decimated with injuries which is also not helping.
Dureya and Keith are the obvious ones. If we were rebuilding even quietly they wouldn’t be playing. Never said they aren’t good enough but they aren’t the future . Garcia hardly been tested midfield. Jod in the forward line, khamis back forward.
Obviously we are challenging not rebuilding.
I understand we are stuck have to try make the 8 and probably not good enough.

[Bullies]

Dureya and Keith are the obvious ones. If we were rebuilding even quietly they wouldn’t be playing. Never said they aren’t good enough but they aren’t the future . Garcia hardly been tested midfield. Jod in the forward line, khamis back forward.
Obviously we are challenging not rebuilding.
I understand we are stuck have to try make the 8 and probably not good enough. Duryea deserves his spot in the team. He also has the Leadership role down back. No one has put their hand up to take his spot.

Keath was on the list as insurance this year. Unfortunately Buku wasn't able to hold his spot and is still a long way off. Gardner also being injured.

Ideally if we had the full list JOD would be the swingman but it is horses for courses at the moment. A number of the more senior guys would also not be in the team due to their pace or more importantly lack of pace.

You can see what Bevo is trying to do and that is put pace on the game. At the minute the cupboard is bare and there are more senior guys who would not be playing if we had a full list to pick from. You would not be playing Libba, Macrae, Daniel, Sanders and MacNeill in the same side.

Once the side is settled i think you will find Garcia getting more mid time but at the moment he is needed in other roles.

I'm now glass half full in what Bevo is doing. I also think the younger guys will be better once we get our list back as they will have better footballers around them and less of the responsibility.

[ledge]

Busslinger is a certainty now to play against Freo

[bornadog]

Dureya and Keith are the obvious ones. If we were rebuilding even quietly they wouldn’t be playing. Never said they aren’t good enough but they aren’t the future . Garcia hardly been tested midfield. Jod in the forward line, khamis back forward.
Obviously we are challenging not rebuilding.
I understand we are stuck have to try make the 8 and probably not good enough.

Who should get a game from the current VFL team to replace the older players?

We don't have the cattle

[hujsh]

I'm not convinced dropping all our older players, regardless of the form of the young players replacing them, at the expense of results now necessarily will build a better team. We've been better with Keath and Doc playing and as much as the kids need time in the team to develop getting bullied doesn't help them much either. Plenty of kids are getting exposure and we have for the most part remained competitive. That's probably a better environment for the likes of Sanders, Gallager etc than the alternative.

I'd still like to see more opportunity for players in the middle consistently as we settle Libba and Richards back in with Bont and Treloar though. Can't go back to a 3-4 man show.

Bus looks likely to get a taste this week and we can assess after that if Keath is needed right away.

[JanLorMill]

Who should get a game from the current VFL team to replace the older players?

We don't have the cattle
I never said they shouldn?t be getting games. I said we ain?t really rebuilding.

[jeemak]

I never said they shouldn?t be getting games. I said we ain?t really rebuilding.

Not in the traditional sense, rather, in the way the coach described it a few weeks ago because he doesn't believe you are likely to get success with a traditional rebuild anymore.

I guess you might be able to do it, but look at Norf and a couple of others. The view I think is changing to changing while you still have senior support to maintain competitiveness.

[soupman]

I never said they shouldn?t be getting games. I said we ain?t really rebuilding.

Are we claiming we are rebuilding?

We have said we are "evolving", which i know is semantics but a rebuild implies starting from the ground up. We are doing much more of a replication of Sydney/Geelong style changing of the guards where young guys are given variably meaningful roles within a senior structure that is still competitive. This involves still picking old guys where they make us a better side, ie Duryea, but picking young guys where they have scope to improve beyond what we currently have in a position and who's output on a week to week basis is not likely to leave us vulnerable as a cost ie. Gallagher.

[jeemak]

Are we claiming we are rebuilding?

We have said we are "evolving", which i know is semantics but a rebuild implies starting from the ground up. We are doing much more of a replication of Sydney/Geelong style changing of the guards where young guys are given variably meaningful roles within a senior structure that is still competitive. This involves still picking old guys where they make us a better side, ie Duryea, but picking young guys where they have scope to improve beyond what we currently have in a position and who's output on a week to week basis is not likely to leave us vulnerable as a cost ie. Gallagher.

You sound as if you may have been listening to the plain words uttered clearly in public by our coach, who everyone knows, talks indecipherable nonsense every time he's got a mic in front of him.

[JanLorMill]

Are we claiming we are rebuilding?

We have said we are "evolving", which i know is semantics but a rebuild implies starting from the ground up. We are doing much more of a replication of Sydney/Geelong style changing of the guards where young guys are given variably meaningful roles within a senior structure that is still competitive. This involves still picking old guys where they make us a better side, ie Duryea, but picking young guys where they have scope to improve beyond what we currently have in a position and who's output on a week to week basis is not likely to leave us vulnerable as a cost ie. Gallagher.
Yes some on here are.

[Mofra]

Well, Keath for Buss seems a no-brainer.

[Happy Days]

We’ve had picks inside the top 5 (or so) for 3 of the last 4 drafts. It might not a literal rebuild in practice but we’ve stumbled into sharing a lot of traits with one.

[Sedat]

I'm on the fence.

We've been pretty good since the Richmond game. Friday Night sucked but we look desperate for a rest and we're simply down too many quality players.

The spirit of the group has looked different to 2022-2023.

I'll write the Brisbane game off, but only that one. I expect a more committed performance vs Fremantle.

If we continue to show spirit and fight, and Bevo wants to lead a rebuild, I'm inclined to go that way but it means getting on the same page collectively and making some big calls on a number of big name players.

If we revert back to how we were prior to the Richmond game, I'll be wanting a new approach for 2025.
The good thing about our current situation is there's no rush. We can review at the end of the year with a full body of 2024 under the belt. If we fall away badly I don't think Bevo will stay beyond this season in any event - the evolution/regeneration process has already started so we haven't lost/wasted time like the entire club did in 2022/2023. If we continue to evolve/improve and do make finals, he will get the 2025 season to continue the progression.

What is crystal clear is that Bevo still has the players eating out of the palm of his hand, and the changes in coaching and F&C personnel are helping to build a more sustainable game plan and playing list - it appears that Bevo has embraced this shift more often than not. We aren't going to get perfection, but it is clear we are trying to fast-track to a better version of ourselves this year, which I don't think we did in the last 2 seasons. I have enjoyed this year to date so much more than the last 2 seasons, even if results are virtually the same at around 50/50.

[Jasper]

We’ve had picks inside the top 5 (or so) for 3 of the last 4 drafts. It might not a literal rebuild in practice but we’ve stumbled into sharing a lot of traits with one.

It's definitely not the classic defined club rebuild where senior players are let go to get extra picks in the first and second rounds of a draft but we have struck a balance of bringing in younger and older players to address the needs.
Clubs on a genuine rebuild don't bring in the likes of Lobb, Jones, O'Brien, Harmes and to a lesser extent Coffield, Bramble, Poulter and Baker.
At the same time we have kept bringing in first round picks. Weightman, Ugle Hagan, Darcy, Busslinger, Sanders and Croft confirm we have kept a sharp eye on the longer term future.

Based on this I just wonder if the club is happy enough to stay competitive while it continues to strengthen it's financial position rather than bottom out and potentially take a hit to the membership and attendance numbers? Beverdige is copping the heat but have the club really been going for a flag or are they working on a stealth rebuild? I'd say we are comfortable in our current position rather than really committing to a flag tilt or a rebuild.

[my plums]

The last thing you should be doing is playing kids for the sake of playing kids IMO. The kids currently playing are deserving of a spot in the side atm. Some of the more mature players are passengers right now, but once we get some bodies back, you'd think they would be sent back to the VFL and the good kids will stay in. That's what I hope anyway.

[Mantis]

It's definitely not the classic defined club rebuild where senior players are let go to get extra picks in the first and second rounds of a draft but we have struck a balance of bringing in younger and older players to address the needs.
Clubs on a genuine rebuild don't bring in the likes of Lobb, Jones, O'Brien, Harmes and to a lesser extent Coffield, Bramble, Poulter and Baker.
At the same time we have kept bringing in first round picks. Weightman, Ugle Hagan, Darcy, Busslinger, Sanders and Croft confirm we have kept a sharp eye on the longer term future.

Based on this I just wonder if the club is happy enough to stay competitive while it continues to strengthen it's financial position rather than bottom out and potentially take a hit to the membership and attendance numbers? Beverdige is copping the heat but have the club really been going for a flag or are they working on a stealth rebuild? I'd say we are comfortable in our current position rather than really committing to a flag tilt or a rebuild.

Pretty much every club brings in ''discards'' from other teams to add depth or fill gaps... you can't rely solely on the draft, especially in trying to fill gaps when it can take 3-4 years for the draftees to be AFL ready.

[FrediKanoute]

Based on this I just wonder if the club is happy enough to stay competitive while it continues to strengthen it's financial position rather than bottom out and potentially take a hit to the membership and attendance numbers? Beverdige is copping the heat but have the club really been going for a flag or are they working on a stealth rebuild? I'd say we are comfortable in our current position rather than really committing to a flag tilt or a rebuild.

I think absolutely the club wants to avoid a North/WCE style bottom out. What we have seen is that bottoming out can become sticky and that a 2 year bottom out becomes a 4 or 5 year bottom out. For a small club like ours it would be very problematic. It has been a stealth rebuild to date. I think a pretty good one. Darcy looks like a generational talent; JUH looks ready to explode; Sanders has time and space; B Smith is a gun; Weightman is Brad Johnson with a leap.

[azabob]

If I was Beveridge I would walk away.

The players are doing him no favours.

[EasternWest]

If I was Beveridge I would walk away.

The players are doing him no favours.

I mean, I would never walk away from 800k a year, unless they'd asked me to skin puppies or something. But I get the gist of what you're saying.

[bulldogtragic]

If I was Beveridge I would walk away.

The players are doing him no favours.

If I was the club, I’d look at rebuilding with a new coach with Smith & English going to help bring in some talent.

[DOG GOD]

If I was the club, I’d look at rebuilding with a new coach with Smith & English going to help bring in some talent.
100%

[bulldogtragic]

100%

At years end. We need to back Bevo in long term or get a new voice, new ideas for the rebuild/refresh. There’s just no consistency in this group to think the ship will right itself.

[JanLorMill]

How?s this playing out? Coach under pressure for another week. Excuses given. Players back up the coach. Probably beat Carlton next week. All is forgiven.

[Happy Days]

Bumping this thread is ridiculous. This is all on the players.

[JanLorMill]

Bumping this thread is ridiculous. This is all on the players.
The players the coach picks. Sack all the players then.

[Mantis]

Bumping this thread is ridiculous. This is all on the players.

He?s the one who has assembled a group that shit the bed far too regularly.

Something needs to change.

[SonofScray]

He’s not going.

Will see out the contract no matter how many years are wasted.

[Grantysghost]

Bumping this thread is ridiculous. This is all on the players.
Not sure. It was a shit show all round.

[bornadog]

delete