Sharp Axes

[azabob]

If I was Beveridge I would walk away.

The players are doing him no favours.


Emotional Immaturity is the word

I am not copping that Bornadog. Nothing in my post suggests Beveridge was to blame for today.

I thought you were better than making it personal.

[jeemak]

Nets.

[1eyedog]

I am not copping that Bornadog. Nothing in my post suggests Beveridge was to blame for today.

I thought you were better than making it personal.

But you're kinda blaming the players so same thing.

[1eyedog]

Bumping this thread is ridiculous. This is all on the players.

Really? All of it? The whole shit show? I think if we are considering who to blame we need to consider the season as a whole. Another year at 10-12 ok for you?

[Grantysghost]

Emotional Immaturity is the word

Explain the Darcy starting in the ruck thing for me BAD.

[Mantis]

Emotional Immaturity is the word

That?s good coming from you.

Yeah, I?ve broken my rule to respond to your posts, but where do you get off at belittling others?

[SonofScray]

I think after 167 pages it’s less likely folk are going off half cocked on single performances.

[Dogs 24/7]

If I was Beveridge I would walk away.

The players are doing him no favours.

I guess it comes down to if he thinks he's lost the players or if there are some other reasons, behind our fluctuating form and results.
While I'm furious we keep missing our chances it's not clear if it's the coach, players or something that stops us delivering results.

[Dogs 24/7]

At years end. We need to back Bevo in long term or get a new voice, new ideas for the rebuild/refresh. There?s just no consistency in this group to think the ship will right itself.

I feel that is reasonable. We should assess everything at the end of the season.

[Dogs 24/7]

Bumping this thread is ridiculous. This is all on the players.

That seems fair but Darcy starting in the ruck was a head scratcher.

[Dogs 24/7]

Emotional Immaturity is the word

That's not your best work. You're just directing your frustration with the clubs performance on a member here.

[EasternWest]

Emotional Immaturity is the word

Give me a spell.

[Happy Days]

Really? All of it? The whole shit show? I think if we are considering who to blame we need to consider the season as a whole. Another year at 10-12 ok for you?

It?s just super frustrating to me to watch a midfield not play any defence, watch forwards go at balls with one hand, watch defenders manning the wrong back shoulder, to drink it all in and say ?yeah but how about Coach Bad?. It?s simplistic and dumb and beneath us.

[Stevo]

If I was Beveridge I would walk away.

The players are doing him no favours.

Bevo won't walk away and will gut it out.

[Stevo]

Emotional Immaturity is the word

I don't know azabob but I've never found him emotional or immature. I really hope this hasn't been directed towards him.

[EasternWest]

It?s just super frustrating to me to watch a midfield not play any defence, watch forwards go at balls with one hand, watch defenders manning the wrong back shoulder, to drink it all in and say ?yeah but how about Coach Bad?. It?s simplistic and dumb and beneath us.

Not to narc but you've got three (if you include English) midfielders in your bests.

[Happy Days]

Not to narc but you've got three (if you include English) midfielders in your bests.

Brother that is only because Gary makes us pick four guys.

[EasternWest]

Brother that is only because Gary makes us pick four guys.

Ok but you put all three of them before Bramble, who is not a midfielder and was actually good today and didn't capitulate and cost us the game before the first quarter was over.

Is my whole life a lie?

[Happy Days]

Ok but you put all three of them before Bramble, who is not a midfielder and was actually good today and didn't capitulate and cost us the game before the first quarter was over.

Is my whole life a lie?

I don’t wanna argue with you homie, I like you too much. Can I just J Cole out of this thread.

[EasternWest]

I don’t wanna argue with you homie, I like you too much. Can I just J Cole out of this thread.

That's it. My life is a lie.

[CarnTheScray]

Emotional Immaturity is the word
Two words.

[Grantysghost]

I don?t wanna argue with you homie, I like you too much. Can I just J Cole out of this thread.
I understand your point however there was some weird coaching stuff for me.

The Darcy thing at the first bounce just really bizarre.

Freijah as sub, so just Bramble for half back run as Duryea is more lock down. Dale I forgot was out there tbh. He's not had a damaging season.

Libba starting on a wing.

No lockdown on Rozee who almost broke the world record for disposals in the first quarter.

Not evening the numbers when the +1 in the midfield was a disaster. Port kept 6 defenders.

Doing nothing to combat the short uncontested game they were playing.

Not having Richards off half back when we had 0 run.

It wasn't just these things, or just the players it was a complete all round shit show in the first quarter imo. especially.

[Grantysghost]

Two words.
Love you?

[Rocket Science]

We should assess everything at the end of the season.

My kingdom for a season where it's not incumbent upon us to review everything in the off-season.

[bornadog]

I am not copping that Bornadog. Nothing in my post suggests Beveridge was to blame for today.

I thought you were better than making it personal.

Deleted, and I will admit I didn't even read the bumped thread. Apologises.

[Jasper]

My kingdom for a season where it's not incumbent upon us to review everything in the off-season.

It does seem like another one will happen. I imagine most if not all clubs reviews their season but this one might need to be a more detailed than most.

[SonofScray]

WCE have swung their axe.

Are we into the time period where clubs feel that action isn?t rushed and irrational?

[bulldogtragic]

WCE have swung their axe.

Are we into the time period where clubs feel that action isn?t rushed and irrational?

Well WCE are already shopping and will have a time advantage on getting the best coach out there. If we thought we needed a new coach for the refresh/rebuild then we don’t want to wait too long.

The club will be thinking we will be playing finals so we won’t be doing anything.

[SonofScray]

Well WCE are already shopping and will have a time advantage on getting the best coach out there. If we thought we needed a new coach for the refresh/rebuild then we don’t want to wait too long.

The club will be thinking we will be playing finals so we won’t be doing anything.

We will finish 10th.

I can’t imagine the club, outside Bevo and the players are looking at the run home and thinking we make it.

[Grantysghost]

Bevo is safe for next year I'd say at this point. We are there abouts.

It's all dependant on the run home. If we fail miserably then that may change.

[GVGjr]

Bevo is safe for next year I'd say at this point. We are there abouts.

It's all dependant on the run home. If we fail miserably then that may change.

I just wonder if West Coast will put the feelers out to see if he wants to have a chat?

[macca]

I understand your point however there was some weird coaching stuff for me.

The Darcy thing at the first bounce just really bizarre.
...

No lockdown on Rozee who almost broke the world record for disposals in the first quarter.

.


Maybe it was a chance to test Darcy against Sweet a known quantity? Sweet is a physical ruckman with limited mobility. I still think we should have kept him.

What gets me, is Tim's lack of aggression to assert his physical presence. If he could do that he would be the complete ruckman, like a Dean Cox type.

I don't get it why we don't tag players like Rozee or Butters. They completely ripped us up in the first quarter.

[Grantysghost]

I just wonder if West Coast will put the feelers out to see if he wants to have a chat?
Actually it's the perfect time to him to leverage into a new role.
Be an exciting opportunity for him.
Youre probably right. I think he's pretty well respected in the footy community.

[hujsh]

Maybe it was a chance to test Darcy against Sweet a known quantity? Sweet is a physical ruckman with limited mobility. I still think we should have kept him.

What gets me, is Tim's lack of aggression to assert his physical presence. If he could do that he would be the complete ruckman, like a Dean Cox type.

I don't get it why we don't tag players like Rozee or Butters. They completely ripped us up in the first quarter.

I doubt the club wanted to get rid of him. Port clearly had more to offer him (potential opportunity, being back home, maybe a bit more money?)

[azabob]

Actually it's the perfect time to him to leverage into a new role.
Be an exciting opportunity for him.
Youre probably right. I think he's pretty well respected in the footy community.

So you are saying Bevo gets another contract extension?

[GVGjr]

So you are saying Bevo gets another contract extension?

One of the ways of looking at this is to think about how much scrutiny will Bevo and the club be under if we are to go into next year with Bevo at the helm. Come the end of the season we need to either make a move or have a very clear path on what the first half of the season looks like in terms of expectations.

[azabob]

One of the ways of looking at this is to think about how much scrutiny will Bevo and the club be under if we are to go into next year with Bevo at the helm. Come the end of the season we need to either make a move or have a very clear path on what the first half of the season looks like in terms of expectations.

If we win 50% of our remaining games I expect Beveridge to coach next year. Even 40/60 I think he stays. Something dramatic would need to happen for Beveridge not to be in charge in 2025.

As you say our senior off field leaders need to have well defined expectations and clear goals/hurdles at certain points throughout the season. At least four check IN points.

[Grantysghost]

So you are saying Bevo gets another contract extension?

Not this year lol.

[Danjul]

Maybe it was a chance to test Darcy against Sweet a known quantity? Sweet is a physical ruckman with limited mobility. I still think we should have kept him.

What gets me, is Tim's lack of aggression to assert his physical presence. If he could do that he would be the complete ruckman, like a Dean Cox type.

I don't get it why we don't tag players like Rozee or Butters. They completely ripped us up in the first quarter.

I have found statements like this interesting.

Part way through the first quarter I said to someone? watch the ball closely in this ruck contest.

The ball hit a Port player on the chest. He was quickly caught in a tackle. Throw up again, same result. Throw up again, the receiver got the ball out to waiting teammate and it resulted in a goal. Port set up for ruck wins.

This pattern of play was repeated a few times in the first quarter and that person stopped watching. Didn?t see our glorious fight back later.

What did the damage was the ruckman keeping the position of his receivers as his primary focus.

[DOG GOD]

What I don’t get is that the inner sanctum keeps saying we are a top 4 team…have the cattle to be a top 4 team, and the structure to be in the window…so….if we don’t make finals, how the hell can Bevo keep his job?

[jeemak]

I have found statements like this interesting.

Part way through the first quarter I said to someone? watch the ball closely in this ruck contest.

The ball hit a Port player on the chest. He was quickly caught in a tackle. Throw up again, same result. Throw up again, the receiver got the ball out to waiting teammate and it resulted in a goal. Port set up for ruck wins.

This pattern of play was repeated a few times in the first quarter and that person stopped watching. Didn?t see our glorious fight back later.

What did the damage was the ruckman keeping the position of his receivers as his primary focus.

Did it really?

[jeemak]

What I don’t get is that the inner sanctum keeps saying we are a top 4 team…have the cattle to be a top 4 team, and the structure to be in the window…so….if we don’t make finals, how the hell can Bevo keep his job?

No they don?t.

[Grantysghost]

No they don?t.

They did in 2023. But toned it down quite signficantly this season didn't they.

[DOG GOD]

No they don?t.
Oh sorry, I thought Bains etc said they are in the window and have a team that should be top 4 worthy? Or am I completely wrong here ?

[bornadog]

Oh sorry, I thought Bains etc said they are in the window and have a team that should be top 4 worthy? Or am I completely wrong here ?

He said that last year in an interview on SEN, but the club this year has only said they should be playing finals (President)

[DOG GOD]

He said that last year in an interview on SEN, but the club this year has only said they should be playing finals (President)

And if they don’t play finals? (which looks likely)

[bornadog]

And if they don’t play finals? (which looks likely)

Who knows.

[azabob]

And if they don’t play finals? (which looks likely)

DG I think the out here is we are now playing younger players, game plan change.

Sorry mate Bevo will go when he calls time.

[Danjul]

Did it really?
It did. And English doesn?t.

[Danjul]

One of the ways of looking at this is to think about how much scrutiny will Bevo and the club be under if we are to go into next year with Bevo at the helm. Come the end of the season we need to either make a move or have a very clear path on what the first half of the season looks like in terms of expectations.
We have had very clear paths before. Look at what happens for a few years after a grand final appearance.

Since 2021 we have had The Four Headed Monster (2023), Games into the Youngsters but not Rebuilding (2024).

The only thing we do better than clear paths is get rid of players who seemed to contribute to finals wins.

[JanLorMill]

Longing good. Happy to admit I was wrong make finals and win at least 1 of them.

[bulldogtragic]

We clearly ourselves around the mark for the next five years throwing the capital at Barrass for five years and the players signed up. If Bevo gets into finals and tells the club he thinks he’s got 5 years to deliver on the refresh/rebuild. Then he stays.

I don’t understand the side from earlier this year of his, to the one he has walking on water now, but he gets the bad and the good/plaudits.

[bornadog]

Longing good. Happy to admit I was wrong make finals and win at least 1 of them.
Bevo 2 more years

[angelopetraglia]

Swamp

WBD the first side since GEEL in 1993 to play 3 games in a row vs sides that were sitting inside the top 3 and win all 3

[JanLorMill]

Bevo 2 more years
Haha

[GVGjr]

Bevo 2 more years

While there is still some work to do I'd like to think the supporters and club think this is a conversation worth considering.

[westdog54]

Swamp

WBD the first side since GEEL in 1993 to play 3 games in a row vs sides that were sitting inside the top 3 and win all 3

When you consider how emphatic the two away wins were it's an astonishing achievement.

[The Underdog]

When you consider how emphatic the two away wins were it's an astonishing achievement.

Especially considering the giant bag of shit that preceded it.

[SonofScray]

No extensions until we win the flag.

[G-Mo77]

The drums started beating loudly because of the poor start. What if we collapse? What if we started rhe season off well? It's really not time to have this conversation though, we're in a position to finish in the 8 and are looking extremely dangerous. Credit were it due right now.

[Hotdog60]

Give Bevo 10 years. I've never enjoyed watching the Dogs more since 2015 and that nudges out Rockets years.
I gone through Sutton in the very late 60's till now and Bevo has eclipsed them all.
So if he has the passion I say go for it because the next coach maybe another Peter Rohde.

[FrediKanoute]

I am happy to admit I have changed my tune.

Not just because of the W column stacking up, but because for the most part our losses (Melbourne, Brisbane and Port aside) have generally been competitive losses. I like that there has been selection integrity. I like that players, senior and developing have been dropped and re-integrated. Most of all I like that players have all improved and developed over the course of 2024. JUH, Darcy, West, Naughts in the forward line. Buku, Lobb, JOD, Bramble in the backline. We have thrown guys around and its worked.

Even if we don't make finals which would be really disappointing from here. We are on track, with a game plan and personnel prepared to execute it.

[jeemak]

I'm happy with how things are progressing but I wouldn't be throwing around extensions until we see how the season wraps and how we start next year - assuming we don't progress to a preliminary final or beyond.

We've held the line that Bevo is contracted for next year and that's that. I'm OK with it going both ways.

[bornadog]

I'm happy with how things are progressing but I wouldn't be throwing around extensions until we see how the season wraps and how we start next year - assuming we don't progress to a preliminary final or beyond.

We've held the line that Bevo is contracted for next year and that's that. I'm OK with it going both ways.

BTW, my comment was a joke between me and JanLorMill based on a text.

Agree, no way we should be talking extensions at this stage.

[ReLoad]

I'm a Bevo fan, and really glad we were able to see our way through the changes internally that he was making. (even if we didn't see it at the time) But the fact remains, making the 8 with a late surge isnt a pass mark. Winning 1 final, probably 2 is the pass mark.

If we are not involved in the 2nd or 3rd week of the finals with our list, profile and raw talent, it is not acceptable.

[MrMahatma]

I think this time last year we were probably even more likely to play finals with an easier run home. And we did an all time bed pooping. So, yeah... we've kind of done the hard part, but now the easier part might actually be harder...

[comrade]

I think this time last year we were probably even more likely to play finals with an easier run home. And we did an all time bed pooping. So, yeah... we've kind of done the hard part, but now the easier part might actually be harder...

That West Coast game will go down as one of Bevo?s all time worst losses. That 1.10pm game against North in a few weeks has got me a little worried.

[mjp]

I think this time last year we were probably even more likely to play finals with an easier run home. And we did an all time bed pooping. So, yeah... we've kind of done the hard part, but now the easier part might actually be harder...

The more we win, the more pressure builds.

Melbourne have owned us. We are on a 5-day break...I was pretty hopeful before the Swans game but really aren't sure how we get out of this one...then Adelaide away...

Our draw is H-A-R-D!!

[comrade]

The more we win, the more pressure builds.

Melbourne have owned us. We are on a 5-day break...I was pretty hopeful before the Swans game but really aren't sure how we get out of this one...then Adelaide away...

Our draw is H-A-R-D!!

This year's Melbourne side is NOT the Melbourne side that has owned us. No Trac, no Ben Brown (lol), Oliver is no where near his best and Gawn is banged up. The 5 day break is the biggest factor here, hopefully we can get off to a quick start and hold on.

[bornadog]

The more we win, the more pressure builds.

Melbourne have owned us. We are on a 5-day break...I was pretty hopeful before the Swans game but really aren't sure how we get out of this one...then Adelaide away...

Our draw is H-A-R-D!!

Melbourne on a 5 day 15 hour break

[Sedat]

That West Coast game will go down as one of Bevo?s all time worst losses. That 1.10pm game against North in a few weeks has got me a little worried.
That West Coast debacle might just as easily also turn out to be the catalyst for our next premiership.

[angelopetraglia]

Melbourne on a 5 day 15 hour break

Melbourne only played 19 ours before our game. But they did not need to travel. It is not that big a difference in reality. If Melbourne were off a full week or longer it would be a bigger advantage.

[hujsh]

After being on edge, switched on etc for 3 weeks in a row of do or die matches against top sides I can see the prospect of letting up against a 'lesser' side being too tempting off a 5 day break and our performance levels dropping. Hopefully that valve release is a one off and we respond against Adelaide and North

[bornadog]

Melbourne only played 19 ours before our game. But they did not need to travel. It is not that big a difference in reality. If Melbourne were off a full week or longer it would be a bigger advantage.

Melbourne Sydney is like hoping on a bus - not really travel:D

[mjp]

Melbourne side is NOT the Melbourne

Do they still have May and Lever?

If so, I remain unconvinced by your argument.

[Mantis]

The more we win, the more pressure builds.

Melbourne have owned us. We are on a 5-day break...I was pretty hopeful before the Swans game but really aren't sure how we get out of this one...then Adelaide away...

Our draw is H-A-R-D!!

Stop being a kill-joy!

We're ****ing flying... we have seen enough of our team completely sucking not to sit back and enjoy when we're playing the type of footy we know we're capable of.

The last 3 weeks we've seen a team first mentality which when added to our individual talent means we're a very good side.

Melbourne will be shitting themselves knowing they play us next. They've kicked 100 points just one in their last 8 games (against WC) and that simply isn't going to be enough to worry us.

[comrade]

Do they still have May and Lever?

If so, I remain unconvinced by your argument.

Freo's forwards tore them to shreds a few weeks back, and Hogan on his own toyed with them. If we let this version of May and especially Lever do what they want, I'll be incredibly disappointed.

[Happy Days]

I think this is the “actually getting to attend the 2021 GF” difference.

[Rocket Science]

That West Coast game will go down as one of Bevo?s all time worst losses. That 1.10pm game against North in a few weeks has got me a little worried.

Conversely, was curious to note that when asked, Simpson nominated last year's boil-over among his finest wins across a decade of coaching.

I'm with mjp on the Melbourne threat; their form line's average but they're also scrapping to salvage a season, the unique matchups too often trouble us, and they just live in our minds and tend to play like it.

Let's see if Friday's the time we say, 'enough'.

[comrade]

I think this is the “actually getting to attend the 2021 GF” difference.

Some feelings can?t be unfelt.

[Grantysghost]

Some feelings can?t be unfelt.

Or remembered.

[MrMahatma]

Stop being a kill-joy!

We're ****ing flying... we have seen enough of our team completely sucking not to sit back and enjoy when we're playing the type of footy we know we're capable of.

The last 3 weeks we've seen a team first mentality which when added to our individual talent means we're a very good side.

Melbourne will be shitting themselves knowing they play us next. They've kicked 100 points just one in their last 8 games (against WC) and that simply isn't going to be enough to worry us.

It seems so long since we’ve won 4, 5 or more in a row. Just feels like a dip is coming.

[Axe Man]

It seems so long since we’ve won 4, 5 or more in a row. Just feels like a dip is coming.

We won 5 in a row last year from rounds 6-10, then promptly dropped 3 on the trot. Hopefully if there is a dip it's just an ugly win.

[Bulldog Joe]

We won 5 in a row last year from rounds 6-10, then promptly dropped 3 on the trot. Hopefully if there is a dip it's just an ugly win.

We have got to 3 in a row. It is about time we extended a run. 10 in a row will satisfy me.

[Mantis]

It seems so long since we’ve won 4, 5 or more in a row. Just feels like a dip is coming.

That's the Bulldog way!

However, finally we look to be very rounded with weapons across all 3 zones so if our effort & intensity is where it needs to be we will remain a very hard team to play against.

[comrade]

That's the Bulldog way!

However, finally we look to be very rounded with weapons across all 3 zones so if our effort & intensity is where it needs to be we will remain a very hard team to play against.

We have a really balanced side for the first time since the early part of 2021 and this side is both more talented and experienced than that one. That's why I'm going full nuffie for the first time since then.

I'm still wary but all the indicators and prediction models are suggesting this really is a contending team.

[angelopetraglia]

Suprise, suprise ... Robbo has done a backflip.

Mark Robinson: Luke Beveridge, the AFL’s master of salvation, has survived the pressure again

Luke Beveridge’s coaching eulogy was being written earlier this year — and not for the first time. MARK ROBINSON examines how the Bulldogs coach has defied the doubters again and made his side an unlikely premiership threat.

He’s done it again Luke Beveridge.

He’s swatted away the doubters – and a potential difficult decision by the Western Bulldogs administration – by orchestrating the best three-week stretch by a team this season, and maybe the best in home-and-away for 30 years.

Turning the season on its head, Beveridge’s Bulldogs beat Carlton, Geelong and Sydney and in doing so, according to Swamp on Twitter/X, became the first team since Geelong in 1993 to play three games in a row against teams inside the top three on the ladder and win all three. The Bulldogs will say they always had complete confidence in their coach and program, but that can’t be true.

Before this stretch, they were 8-8 win-loss and if the results were reversed and the Bulldogs were 8-11 with four to play, they would’ve missed finals.

And with the club demanding improvement after the ninth-placed finish in 2023, after two off-season reviews and after a clean out of assistant coaches, a bomb-out in 2024 would’ve put pressure on Beveridge’s tenure.

We’re not saying he would’ve been sacked, but there would’ve been discussion about whether Beveridge should be sacked.

But that won’t happen. Because Beveridge is the master of salvation.

It’s been noted before that he can mastermind his team out of a run of mediocre performances.

In 2022, the Dogs lost their first two matches and four of their first six and still played finals.

In 2021, they lost rounds 21-23 and made the grand final.

In 2020, they lost their first two matches and played finals.

In 2019, they lost four of their first six matches and then lost four of five matches through rounds 9-14 and still made finals.

This season, they Dogs were 3-5, and just a month ago was pumped by Port Adelaide over there, and they now have galloped into premiership calculations.

Asked to describe the genius of Beveridge, long-time assistant coach Rohan Smith said Beveridge’s quality was that he sees the good in people.

He doesn’t always dispense with players, Smith said.

This year it is turning lumbering forward Rory Lobb into an intercept defender. In 2016, the premiership year, he switched ageing All-Australian midfielder Matthew Boyd to halfback where Boyd won his third All-Australian. Another player, for example, was Bailey Dale, who was meandering at half-forward who then became an All-Australian halfback in 2021.

Beveridge can get a couple wrong.

Like starting Tom Liberatore at half-forward at the start of 2002.

“He just doesn’t throw people out – he tries them in different areas,” Smith said.

“He sees the good in people rather than the bad, which is the art of coaching.”

Smith said the players respond to Beveridge’s brilliant storytelling and motivation, and that the players know he always “has their back”.

He cited the recent defence of Cody Weightman on AFL360 as an example.

“If Cody was watching AFL360 the other week, Cody would break down a brick wall to play for Bevo,” Smith said. “That stuff goes around the group.”

He said Beveridge was the “most wonderful person, the way he motivates, the way he cares”.

“He does not ever talk about himself, he will always worry about others before he worries about himself – and that’s why people gravitate towards him.

“Think about 2016 and getting the premiership cup. He calls up Robert Murphy. As coach, your greatest crowning glory is to lift that premiership cup with your captain and he sacrificed that for Robert Murphy. That’s the most selfless act I’ve ever seen on a footy field.”

Unless the Dogs fall in a hole in the next month – they play Melbourne on Friday night, Adelaide (away), North Melbourne (Marvel), and GWS Giants (Ballarat) – there are no worries about Beveridge coaching next year. And maybe even for a long time after that.

[SonofScray]

That West Coast debacle might just as easily also turn out to be the catalyst for our next premiership.

Has the vibe of the game that killed off BMAC against GWS in 2014.

Suppose if he can survive that he can survive anything. Anyone else at any other club at any other point in time gets the flick before now. I maintain it should have happened in 2018 and 2020 and 2023 and early 2024.

Club's gone in a different direction, looks like they've mostly pulled the right levers but the pass mark for a while now has been Top Four finish plus win a final. Can cop a finish outside the four, but winning a final/finals should still be the pass mark.

Lucky for Bevo, we will win the flag.

[angelopetraglia]

I caught up with a good friend who has access to the inner sanctum at Carlton (I know, don't judge me for being friends with a Calrton peson). This person had dinner with Ash Hansen. He gave me a few interesting insights. However, one thing in particular stuck with me, is that Ash Hansen spoke incredibly highly about Bevo the coach, but in partiuclar highlighted how humble Bevo is and the deep relationship he has with the playing group.

Basically just reinforcing what Bubba highlights above.

[Axe Man]

Beveridge can get a couple wrong.

Like starting Tom Liberatore at half-forward at the start of 2002.

I'll say, Libba was only 9 years old at the time, it should have been the forward pocket.

[JanLorMill]

We aren't losing again.....ever

[hujsh]

This year it is turning lumbering forward Rory Lobb into an intercept defender. In 2016, the premiership year, he switched ageing All-Australian midfielder Matthew Boyd to halfback where Boyd won his third All-Australian. Another player, for example, was Bailey Dale, who was meandering at half-forward who then became an All-Australian halfback in 2021.

I'm sensing a pattern.



Beveridge can get a couple wrong.

Like starting Tom Liberatore at half-forward at the start of 2002.


Someone pull on the back of Rhodes head and see if a mask comes off

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We aren't losing again.....ever

Is that a sneaky Shoresy reference there JLM?

[Grantysghost]

We won 5 in a row last year from rounds 6-10, then promptly dropped 3 on the trot. Hopefully if there is a dip it's just an ugly win.
Then ugly win bit i what I reckon we did against North who were going ok at that point.
I'd be very happy with that type of win again. I think that's been a bit of a weakness of Bevo sides. Grinding out those victories.

[Dogs 24/7]

I'd try and get him signed for 2 more providing we make the finals and win at least one final.

[jeemak]

I don't think people (outside of the learned peoples of WOOF) realise how tenuous our defensive structure has been and how easily things could have gone the other way for us. We could have been well forgiven for dropping the games Jones and JOD were out.

Backing Khamis and instilling confidence in him, and telling Lobb he was too good to drop were great examples of backing players in, though from a technical coaching point of view the way we defend the ground has been excellent for much of the year. At this point if our midfielders and forwards put in sufficient intent to compete, our defenders have a much easier job than they have in the past.

Kudos to the coaches.

It was a genuine training drill against WCE earlier this year, but the benefit of that game was I felt I was able to see what our style of play, defending the ground and hard running forward should look like. Amazingly we've been able to bring it to the fore the past couple of months against quality sides.

Dickhead was challenged by Buckley on the radio again about whether he went too hard at Beveridge, and he held the line we have the second best list in the competition. That might end up being the case at the end of the year if the players can prove they are at that standard, but it wasn't the case at the start of it and players take time to develop and the development has been clear throughout the season.

We just need to keep it up for a month and go hard after the break.

[azabob]

Jimmy Bartel has stepped down as footy director from the Giants.

I have been a longtime advocate of getting Bartel to the dogs in some sort of footy ops role.

A seamless transition between Grant and Bartel?

Before the bulldog mafia come for me... view this opportunity similar to Treloar. Sometime people become available, and you need to make it work.

[jeemak]

You've never mentioned Jimmy Bartel on here as far as I can remember.

[azabob]

You've never mentioned Jimmy Bartel on here as far as I can remember.

bugger, it is hard managing multiple accounts. I meant to post this as jeenmak...

[GVGjr]

You've never mentioned Jimmy Bartel on here as far as I can remember.

I'm getting a little bit sick of all these Monday morning quarterbacks claiming they can make good decisions after the event.
I'm really disappointed that Aza is now trying to hitch his wagon to the Bartel express.

Next thing you know Happy Days will be claiming Bramble :)

Crazy world.

[GVGjr]

Jimmy Bartel has stepped down as footy director from the Giants.

I have been a longtime advocate of getting Bartel to the dogs in some sort of footy ops role.

A seamless transition between Grant and Bartel?

Before the bulldog mafia come for me... view this opportunity similar to Treloar. Sometime people become available, and you need to make it work.

Do we know why Bartel has stepped away from the GWS job? That could play a big part of any potential change.

[bornadog]

I'm getting a little bit sick of all these Monday morning quarterbacks claiming they can make good decisions after the event.
I'm really disappointed that Aza is now trying to hitch his wagon to the Bartel express.

Next thing you know Happy Days will be claiming Bramble :)

Crazy world.

Happy Days is waiting for Harmes to come good

[Happy Days]

I can’t be the only one to notice that us becoming awesome has coincided with Harmes being unavailable for selection at any level.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I'm getting a little bit sick of all these Monday morning quarterbacks claiming they can make good decisions after the event.
I'm really disappointed that Aza is now trying to hitch his wagon to the Bartel express.

Next thing you know Happy Days will be claiming Bramble :)

Crazy world.

And the only thing keeping us all level headed is the even keel in the water called GVGJr

Yes crazy world

[JanLorMill]

Bumping this again because nothing has changed. Again Finals is a minimum. Losing the first final isn’t good enough to maintain the status quo. Something is missing from the coaching box. Are the praises are too high and the blasts aren’t there when they are needed?

[Bulldog Joe]

Bumping this again because nothing has changed. Again Finals is a minimum. Losing the first final isn’t good enough to maintain the status quo. Something is missing from the coaching box. Are the praises are too high and the blasts aren’t there when they are needed?

I am one who was all for the coach to go last year, but there has been a big improvement in the latter part of this season.
Despite the sub par performance in both games in Adelaide I believe we certainly stick with the current regime for 2025

[Grantysghost]

I am one who was all for the coach to go last year, but there has been a big improvement in the latter part of this season.
Despite the sub par performance in both games in Adelaide I believe we certainly stick with the current regime for 2025
If we don't make finals I'd be questioning things intensely.

[Bulldog Joe]

If we don't make finals I'd be questioning things intensely.

Sometimes you need to look past week to week results and look at the trend.

[bulldogtragic]

Sometimes you need to look past week to week results and look at the trend.

Like blowing finals chances two years in a row, after choking horrendously in the two finals played before that? That trend?

[Grantysghost]

Like blowing finals chances two years in a row, after choking horrendously in the two finals played before that? That trend?
It did smell of the Hawks game last year.

That is the trend lately.

[bulldogtragic]

It did smell of the Hawks game last year.

That is the trend lately.

Yep. This side, like the last time we had a top 4 spot there to win, just shit the bed and blew the opportunity. Why can’t a Bevo team just take the opportunity?

[mighty_west]

Bumping this again because nothing has changed. Again Finals is a minimum. Losing the first final isn’t good enough to maintain the status quo. Something is missing from the coaching box. Are the praises are too high and the blasts aren’t there when they are needed?

No a lot has changed and changed quite a bit if you compare to the last few seasons, yeah shit performance today and maybe the team just got ahead of itself? You play like we have over the past few months with a couple of bad hiccups to see things are improving and with todays loss we put ourselves in a vulnerable position.

What is missing from the coaches box do you see?

[SonofScray]

Top 4 is gone.

Plenty had that as a pass mark.

I will settle for a finals berth, and at least one finals win. He can see out the contract under those circumstances.

If we miss, or we make it and get another loss like GWS, or Freo finals in recent history, then I would want to wrap it up. But we won’t. He’s here to stay. 2 year extension coming up.

[Grantysghost]

Yep. This side, like the last time we had a top 4 spot there to win, just shit the bed and blew the opportunity. Why can’t a Bevo team just take the opportunity?
21 as well.

[bulldogtragic]

21 as well.

Yep. Fight to finish top four and just blow it. Again.

[jazzadogs]

Bevos coaching got us 16 more inside 50s, 1 more scoring shots, 3 more clearances - and the players converted at 33%.

This wasn't a game where we got dominated, gave up, outcoached - we just blew opportunity after opportunity to alter the course of the game.

It's very frustrating and if the season ends with more results like today then questions are deserved. But we've just put together one of the best months in Bevo's tenure (there's some strong competition in that category), with a high intensity gameplan which seemed to be clicking and is well suited to finals - I'm not kicking him out the door today.

[JanLorMill]

No a lot has changed and changed quite a bit if you compare to the last few seasons, yeah shit performance today and maybe the team just got ahead of itself? You play like we have over the past few months with a couple of bad hiccups to see things are improving and with todays loss we put ourselves in a vulnerable position.

What is missing from the coaches box do you see?
It was more a question. I don?t see how we can?t improve our goal kicking. I know the coaches don?t kick for goal but the players seemed to have escaped scrutiny for terrible kicking this season.

I?d us to win ugly every now and then when required in a hard spot. Port did it, gws did and Geelong too. Last time we did on the road or against a good opponent? It?s either feast or famine.

As for what not changed, it?s more about we can progress with Bevo. We had a chance to sure his position today.

[jeemak]

What type of coach are we looking for?

One to change or refine the game plan, or one who can get the players in a headspace that enables them to show up weekly?

Our personnel issues aside (because we still have them irrespective of Lobb going back and Richards playing on the ball), at times this year we've been able to keep good teams to low scores while kicking high scores ourselves. That says to me the game plan is sound when everyone on the field concentrates and applies themselves. Even today with a breakdown in team defence we had 27 to 26 scoring shots. So again, even when off colour we can get ourselves opportunities to score.

Onto the players, they've demonstrated they can execute the game plan, even under duress. How much responsibility do they need to take, and how much can another coach impact the group without radically changing the game plan? Is there another coach out there who can sustainably connect with a playing group to ensure they're consistent week in, week out?

To me the lapses in performance are between the ears and largely fall on the players because we have seen that they can deliver some of the most frugal and yet attacking football of the year, and beat good teams in the process.

[JanLorMill]

Bevos coaching got us 16 more inside 50s, 1 more scoring shots, 3 more clearances - and the players converted at 33%.

This wasn't a game where we got dominated, gave up, outcoached - we just blew opportunity after opportunity to alter the course of the game.

It's very frustrating and if the season ends with more results like today then questions are deserved. But we've just put together one of the best months in Bevo's tenure (there's some strong competition in that category), with a high intensity gameplan which seemed to be clicking and is well suited to finals - I'm not kicking him out the door today.
How can you really tell? We looked beaten from the start, flat and expecting things to just work. No changed were made 2 weeks in a row in a danger game.

[jeemak]

Bevos coaching got us 16 more inside 50s, 1 more scoring shots, 3 more clearances - and the players converted at 33%.

This wasn't a game where we got dominated, gave up, outcoached - we just blew opportunity after opportunity to alter the course of the game.

It's very frustrating and if the season ends with more results like today then questions are deserved. But we've just put together one of the best months in Bevo's tenure (there's some strong competition in that category), with a high intensity gameplan which seemed to be clicking and is well suited to finals - I'm not kicking him out the door today.

A bit of scoreboard pressure in the first half and it's possibly a different game, or at least, one where we could say we hung in there but didn't quite get it right.

[Grantysghost]

Bevos coaching got us 16 more inside 50s, 1 more scoring shots, 3 more clearances - and the players converted at 33%.

This wasn't a game where we got dominated, gave up, outcoached - we just blew opportunity after opportunity to alter the course of the game.

It's very frustrating and if the season ends with more results like today then questions are deserved. But we've just put together one of the best months in Bevo's tenure (there's some strong competition in that category), with a high intensity gameplan which seemed to be clicking and is well suited to finals - I'm not kicking him out the door today.
Great post JD.

Let's pump North and get this show back on the road.

I've de soured and sweetened.

[JanLorMill]

What type of coach are we looking for?

One to change or refine the game plan, or one who can get the players in a headspace that enables them to show up weekly?

Our personnel issues aside (because we still have them irrespective of Lobb going back and Richards playing on the ball), at times this year we've been able to keep good teams to low scores while kicking high scores ourselves. That says to me the game plan is sound when everyone on the field concentrates and applies themselves. Even today with a breakdown in team defence we had 27 to 26 scoring shots. So again, even when off colour we can get ourselves opportunities to score.

Onto the players, they've demonstrated they can execute the game plan, even under duress. How much responsibility do they need to take, and how much can another coach impact the group without radically changing the game plan? Is there another coach out there who can sustainably connect with a playing group to ensure they're consistent week in, week out?

To me the lapses in performance are between the ears and largely fall on the players because we have seen that they can deliver some of the most frugal and yet attacking football of the year, and beat good teams in the process.
Can’t just excuse the coaches for not seeing the players aren’t up today? Too much faith in them. What’s the Allan jeans line about sausages?

[jazzadogs]

A bit of scoreboard pressure in the first half and it's possibly a different game, or at least, one where we could say we hung in there but didn't quite get it right.

100%. I'm not saying we win but even in the first quarter we kicked 1.4, Cody dropped a chest mark, Keays toepoked a goal...it could have been even at quarter time and then the game plays out differently.

Instead it was 20 points at quarter time, we started the second with three misses, and never got it back within 20 points for the whole game. Crows were able to play an attacking game plan because there was never any scoreboard heat on them.

[mighty_west]

It was more a question. I don?t see how we can?t improve our goal kicking. I know the coaches don?t kick for goal but the players seemed to have escaped scrutiny for terrible kicking this season.

I?d us to win ugly every now and then when required in a hard spot. Port did it, gws did and Geelong too. Last time we did on the road or against a good opponent? It?s either feast or famine.

As for what not changed, it?s more about we can progress with Bevo. We had a chance to sure his position today.

Our goal kicking was dreadful 1000000% agree with that, i was talking more about the overall game style this season especially in the last few months, heck we were favorites or top two to win the flag last week that's how well we have played but yes, goal kicking was disgusting, it has to be all in the head doesn't it? I mean Naughton missed 1 but his goal kicking has improved this year, Darcy was the big one today missing too many gettable goals yet he's looked ok in recent weeks in front of the sticks, it's not like the club isn't addressing it with Johnno coming in, but not sure what you can change in the coaches box to address that issue mid game? They did send Buku forward who is a good set shot, just didn't have a shot and our forwards just didn't seem to separate enough always bombing it into a pack.

[mighty_west]

Can’t just excuse the coaches for not seeing the players aren’t up today? Too much faith in them. What’s the Allan jeans line about sausages?

I reckon the coaching staff had every right to have faith in the players given the past month especially, don't you?

[jeemak]

Can’t just excuse the coaches for not seeing the players aren’t up today? Too much faith in them. What’s the Allan jeans line about sausages?

“They’re like sausages – you can boil them, grill them or curry them, but ultimately they’re still sausages."

That makes so much sense to me now, I completely get it.

But to the post you quoted, what sort of coach are you getting if it's not Beveridge?

[bulldogtragic]

“They’re like sausages – you can boil them, grill them or curry them, but ultimately they’re still sausages."

That makes so much sense to me now, I completely get it.

But to the post you quoted, what sort of coach are you getting if it's not Beveridge?

Is BBQ the same as grilling in this processed fat/meat metaphor? I’ve not heard this one before.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think it's clear it's the players at this point.

You don't dish up the last month of footy if you're no good or poorly coached. But good teams also don't turn up and dish out that crap today after having done the exact same vs Port only 5 weeks ago.

The problem Bevo has is that if it keeps happening, and they keep failing when it matters, ultimately he wears it.

Fascinating end to the year coming up. Miss finals and WO would be on fire. Make it and get bundled out and questions will still be asked.

Pass mark has to be week 2 and competitive. It wouldn't surprise if we made it to the Grand Final or dropped the next 2 games, such is the history of this list.

[JanLorMill]

Is BBQ the same as grilling in this processed fat/meat metaphor? I’ve not heard this one before.
I think Jeans actually borrowed it from Len Smith? Norms brother together with the ‘pay the price’ story.

[JanLorMill]

“They’re like sausages – you can boil them, grill them or curry them, but ultimately they’re still sausages."

That makes so much sense to me now, I completely get it.

But to the post you quoted, what sort of coach are you getting if it's not Beveridge?
I’d happily take bevo a lot longer if we made top 4 or win a final. I definitely think we have underachieved if we don’t.

[FrediKanoute]

No a lot has changed and changed quite a bit if you compare to the last few seasons, yeah shit performance today and maybe the team just got ahead of itself? You play like we have over the past few months with a couple of bad hiccups to see things are improving and with todays loss we put ourselves in a vulnerable position.

What is missing from the coaches box do you see?

In some ways it?s the loss we were due. To go all the way we were going to have to win 11 straight. Just won?t happen, so at least this loss means that it?s 6 straight to win the GF.

[jeemak]

I’d happily take bevo a lot longer if we made top 4 or win a final. I definitely think we have underachieved if we don’t.

I still think we're a year or two away in development of JUH and Darcy, some shoring up of our key defensive stocks, and some major attention to our wings and forward flanks in quality and speed before I'm thinking top four is a pass mark. Plus we need to seriously think about Libba's tenure and how we can inject more speed outside of Richards into our core midfield mix.

Weightman not finishing well really worries me becuase he's not productive enough if he isn't. On top of that if he's not finishing well then we're relying on West, VDM and McNeil to deliver quality in finishing and connection, or Poulter to be really influential. And I don't think those guys can do it consistently where the good teams have good players in those roles who can.

In light of all of that a credible alternate view of our current status is the coaching effort has been enormous and the major contributing factor to us even being a chance of making the eight and rattling some cages.

[JanLorMill]

In some ways it?s the loss we were due. To go all the way we were going to have to win 11 straight. Just won?t happen, so at least this loss means that it?s 6 straight to win the GF.
It was 10 with a top 4 finish . The way we were playing I didn’t see it as a problem, other clubs have done it, we don’t.

[mighty_west]

It was 10 with a top 4 finish . The way we were playing I didn’t see it as a problem, other clubs have done it, we don’t.

Not too many this season though, maybe the comp is just so even it's just too hard to win so many consecutive games? Sydney and Hawks may have won 10 plus during the season, not sure there were many others? But then Sydney lose quite a few in a row. The Crows only just lost to Geelong last week at GMHBCDEFGHIJK Stadium last week so maybe it wasn't such a big boil over?

[hujsh]

I think it's clear it's the players at this point.

You don't dish up the last month of footy if you're no good or poorly coached. But good teams also don't turn up and dish out that crap today after having done the exact same vs Port only 5 weeks ago.

The problem Bevo has is that if it keeps happening, and they keep failing when it matters, ultimately he wears it.

Fascinating end to the year coming up. Miss finals and WO would be on fire. Make it and get bundled out and questions will still be asked.

Pass mark has to be week 2 and competitive. It wouldn't surprise if we made it to the Grand Final or dropped the next 2 games, such is the history of this list.

Well... are there any good teams in the league by that metric? You could probably point to pretty much any other team in the 8 and find similar letdowns.

[azabob]

Weightman not finishing well really worries me becuase he's not productive enough if he isn't. .

Ever since Weightman did a fluff piece in the paper a few weeks back his goal kicking has gone downhill.

I am still 100% in the keep Bevo camp. He looks fresh and up for the challenge for our next tilt.

During 2022 and parts of 2023 I don't think Bevo was 100% sure why we were a middling team.

This year is the complete opposite; we have a clear vision on our gameplan and what type of players we need to execute the game plan. Coupled with we actually have 28-30 players who are capable of playing AFL football.

I think it is paramount we keep both Daniel and Macrae 2025 and beyond purely to keep pressure on our senior core players and the standards high in our VFL program.

[bornadog]

Not too many this season though, maybe the comp is just so even it's just too hard to win so many consecutive games? Sydney and Hawks may have won 10 plus during the season, not sure there were many others? But then Sydney lose quite a few in a row. The Crows only just lost to Geelong last week at GMHBCDEFGHIJK Stadium last week so maybe it wasn't such a big boil over?

Crows beat some good teams during the year - Carlton, GWS, draw v Lions, Port. Wouldn't surprise me if they beat Port again next week.

[Happy Days]

Well... are there any good teams in the league by that metric? You could probably point to pretty much any other team in the 8 and find similar letdowns.

No. No one is actually good in professional sports, it’s just a bunch of teams slowly revealing that they suck. Making a grand final and losing is actually pathetic and any team that has done it should feel bad about it.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Well... are there any good teams in the league by that metric? You could probably point to pretty much any other team in the 8 and find similar letdowns.

5 weeks apart at the same ground?

That Port game was spoken about at length behind closed doors, so I would have hoped a trip back to the same venue would have yielded a better effort than what we put forward yesterday.

[hujsh]

5 weeks apart at the same ground?

That Port game was spoken about at length behind closed doors, so I would have hoped a trip back to the same venue would have yielded a better effort than what we put forward yesterday.

C'mon, I said similar not exact. Every team has been inconsistent this year and we've just had 4 really good wins. It's not surprising we'd drop one now that's the nature of the comp. We had a down week and the crows were released from any expectation or pressure with some key players returning. If we lose against North I might chuck my rattle out of the pram but if we lose against GWS and miss finals that's because we weren't good enough in the first half of the year not because we didn't win 8 in a row or whatever.

[bulldogtragic]

So how’s this go now:

- Top 4: Missed.

Keep or Cut Bevo?

- Beat GWS, Home EF
- Lose to GWS, Fall into an Away EF

(Is winning a final mandatory?)

- Lose to GWS, Miss Finals Altogether


Or has the discussion moved on? Or is one game the be all and end all?

[Grantysghost]

It's weird because even if we miss the finals I somehow think we've had a good year.

Bevo is safe for next year either way.

[1eyedog]

We need to beat GWS and Hawthorn in week 1. That's a season pass.

[bulldogtragic]

We need to beat GWS and Hawthorn in week 1. That's a season pass.

So failing that, sack Bevo?

[DOG GOD]

It's weird because even if we miss the finals I somehow think we've had a good year.

Bevo is safe for next year either way.

Agree.
I think we will lose to GWS and Carl, then Freo will win their games.
Bevo will coach next year…
After that who knows.

[1eyedog]

So failing that, sack Bevo?

Nope we are locked in with him and rightfully so. Doesn't mean he should be tapped on the shoulder and doesn't mean we need change.

Bevo is the Bulldogs until he's not. It's just a pass mark.

[GVGjr]

So how’s this go now:

- Top 4: Missed.

Keep or Cut Bevo?

- Beat GWS, Home EF
- Lose to GWS, Fall into an Away EF

(Is winning a final mandatory?)

- Lose to GWS, Miss Finals Altogether


Or has the discussion moved on? Or is one game the be all and end all?

I like how you have set this up with a few scenarios to consider. Thanks BT
One scenario that was a possibility a few weeks back is now off the table from my perspective and that is Bevo being moved on at the end of the season. To me we've shown enough creativity in our playing style, reinvention with our coaching and MC approach and our development of younger players throughout the season so I'm content for Bevo to stay at the helm in 2025.
To regard the season as successful we still need to play and win at least one final and I don't think that has changed.

I've enjoyed the conversations on this thread but I don't think we need to sharpen the axe at the moment.

[1eyedog]

I like how you have set this up with a few scenarios to consider. Thanks BT
One scenario that was a possibility a few weeks back is now off the table from my perspective and that is Bevo being moved on at the end of the season. To me we've shown enough creativity in our playing style, reinvention with our coaching and MC approach and our development of younger players throughout the season so I'm content for Bevo to stay at the helm in 2025.
To regard the season as successful we still need to play and win at least one final and I don't think that has changed.

I've enjoyed the conversations on this thread but I don't think we need to sharpen the axe at the moment.

There is no scenario this year where the question of whether Bevo coaches next year is queried.

[hujsh]

The way the team plays has grown this year. Yes when we lose people will say it's the same old shit and blah blah blah but taking the emotion of the moment out of it the team has felt like it's going somewhere, doing something, different enough from the post 21 years to stick with Bevo for his contract. The Bevolution that Luke speaks of does seem to have some basis in reality and as a premiership coach who we've stuck with for this long we may as well let him see out next year.

It's probably a better gamble than hoping we get a Craig Macrae or... Luke Beveridge?

[Grantysghost]

Agree.
I think we will lose to GWS and Carl, then Freo will win their games.
Bevo will coach next year…
After that who knows.
GWS we have a tough game on our hands however I think we can match them and hopefully we pull out a great performance when it matters.

[bornadog]

Must make finals and win one to say we had some success.

[GVGjr]

Must make finals and win one to say we had some success.

I agree, it's a reasonable starting point.

[G-Mo77]

It's weird because even if we miss the finals I somehow think we've had a good year.

Bevo is safe for next year either way.

I wouldn't say good but showed we are good enough when we want to be, the slow start of the seaeon was so disappointing, I just hope we can hit the ground running in 2025.

[soupman]

It's weird because even if we miss the finals I somehow think we've had a good year.

Bevo is safe for next year either way.

I agree.

I think we have taken good steps forward this year, and while there have been plenty of bad games our good stuff has felt genuinely good, we have performed against good teams and our swuad has gone under a bit of a refresh with some high ceiling players really emerging in key roles.

On top of that, this is the most we have gotten out of the bottom end of the 22 on a regular basis since 2016.

[jeemak]

This blunt instrument of a thread, contradictory of its name is going to get a bit of a workout the next couple of weeks.

To me at a conceptual level it's been a bit of a joke. Like chopping a head off is a great way to solve a problem. A means to an end. However, you can't argue against the veracity of the emotions and actions it's delivered over a period of time and as such, it deserves a place in WOOF history as one of the best no matter the outcome.

It takes a bit of balls to start a thread like this, and I know a bit about how shit can turn when you do. Kudos to SoS for keeping us interested. Great thread.

[hujsh]

This blunt instrument of a thread, contradictory of its name is going to get a bit of a workout the next couple of weeks.

To me at a conceptual level it's been a bit of a joke. Like chopping a head off is a great way to solve a problem. A means to an end. However, you can't argue against the veracity of the emotions and actions it's delivered over a period of time and as such, it deserves a place in WOOF history as one of the best no matter the outcome.

It takes a bit of balls to start a thread like this, and I know a bit about how shit can turn when you do. Kudos to SoS for keeping us interested. Great thread.

https://i.imgflip.com/90uqgd.jpg

[jeemak]

I'm so into myself.

[AshMac]

There is no scenario this year where the question of whether Bevo coaches next year is queried.

Yep, I agree now. I think if the halves of the year swapped pre and post bye - it?d be a different conversation. Starting poor and finishing well has saved him IMO.

I?ll admit, I wanted blood by round 10. Has probably shown enough though over the season.

Do think we were screwed with the fixture first half of season too. Round 0, playing brisbane after 2 byes, gather round home game against Geelong - one of those games has a different outcome and we?re still going for top 4

[GVGjr]

This blunt instrument of a thread, contradictory of its name is going to get a bit of a workout the next couple of weeks.

To me at a conceptual level it's been a bit of a joke. Like chopping a head off is a great way to solve a problem. A means to an end. However, you can't argue against the veracity of the emotions and actions it's delivered over a period of time and as such, it deserves a place in WOOF history as one of the best no matter the outcome.

It takes a bit of balls to start a thread like this, and I know a bit about how shit can turn when you do. Kudos to SoS for keeping us interested. Great thread.

Totally agree, there were some concerning signs with how the club and in particular how the coach was performing and I credit SoS with starting a difficult thread and posing some hard questions.
Of course opinions varied but the discussions and thoughts shared have been done in the right way. There was a pro Bevo and club group and of course it was balanced by a group questioning why the club wouldn't make a coaching change early in the season.

I know my own thoughts and opinions changed throughout the season as this discussion evolved. While a lot might depend on how we perform at Ballarat on Sunday I'm hoping what we have all seen so far during the season shows that we aren't in bad shape and that a coaching change isn't actually required. No

[MrMahatma]

You don't sack a dude the year he wins the flag. So Bevo is safe this season.

And the next 3.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I've certainly been delighted with the changes seen this season. Particularly with match selection. Whether Bevo is still the man to take this list forward or not remains an open question for me. But he certainly deserves to at least see out his contract.

Sunday will of course get the burners going again if we lose and miss finals but I would have taken 13 wins at the start of the season. Especially if you'd had told me we knocked off Carlton, Geelong (at sedat park), Sydney and Melbourne in succession. The 2 Adelaide games and the essendon one were the low points. We also benefited from a good run with injuries but 100% it finally feels we're headed in the right direction.

[mjp]

Sunday will of course get the burners going again if we lose...

To me, it's not the IF...I can deal with losing. It's always the 'HOW'.

If we lose the way we did vs Adelaide I will be annoyed but goal kicking and shooting ourselves in the foot is not the coaches fault.
If we lose the way we did against Port or (with more relevance) in the elimination final we played up at Blacktown all those years ago (the one where GWS bashed us up) I will be much more than annoyed.

[bornadog]

in the elimination final we played up at Blacktown all those years ago (the one where GWS bashed us up) I will be much more than annoyed.

we were inexperienced babies then, we are now men :D

I would be really annoyed if that happened again.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

To me, it's not the IF...I can deal with losing. It's always the 'HOW'.

If we lose the way we did vs Adelaide I will be annoyed but goal kicking and shooting ourselves in the foot is not the coaches fault.
If we lose the way we did against Port or (with more relevance) in the elimination final we played up at Blacktown all those years ago (the one where GWS bashed us up) I will be much more than annoyed.

Totally agree. But regardless the burners will go on again whether rightly or not.

You can also bet things will be cooler if we lose AND still play finals which shouldn't actually be the case.

[mjp]

we were inexperienced babies then, we are now men :D


Don't TELL me.
SHOW me.

I don't NOT believe in Bevo - I think he's a super coach - but he's also 100% part of a group that has been consistently untrustworthy.

[Mantis]

Don't TELL me.
SHOW me.

I don't NOT believe in Bevo - I think he's a super coach - but he's also 100% part of a group that has been consistently untrustworthy.

Given he selects the group he is not only a part, but he's also responsible.

[SonofScray]

Don't TELL me.
SHOW me.

I don't NOT believe in Bevo - I think he's a super coach - but he's also 100% part of a group that has been consistently untrustworthy.

That’s ultimately how I fall back in line. And I will happily.

I haven’t completely cooled on my position and I think 2025 sees us back on the treadmill should we not do something absolutely incredible across the next five games.

But right now, on the balance of things, there’s been a big enough improvement to put the axe away and acknowledge that our coach has coached much better this season than previous years, despite the outcomes not looking remarkably different.

Conversation rightfully will move from sacking to whether or not we extend/resign. Then to sacking again if we get off to the poor start for our Premiership defence in 2025.

Noting that he breaks EJ’s record this weekend, anyone who wants to use that as a stat to stick it up the haters etc… even EJ got sacked. ��

[jeemak]

Just remember we only made finals because we had either more wins or a better percentage than 12 other teams. :)

[angelopetraglia]

That’s is 7 finals appearances in 10 seasons for Bevo. 14 win season with a percentage of 125.1%

The axe can be put away for a while.

[hujsh]

I said Bevo was probably gone unless we had a GWS/Carlton in 2023 type run home and by god he pulled it off the mad lad. We have beaten teams that were 1-2 and 3, our personal Demons, and arguably the form team of the comp today.

Why not us

[GVGjr]

A great result today for our record breaking coach but we have to put up some fight during the finals.

[josie]

Yep. It?s such an open year that it would be a travesty if we don?t make the absolute most of our chances. We have the players and coaches to pull off something remarkable or damn close to it. My hope is with new assistant coaches Bevo is more open to a tag on oppo or tweak to tactics when oppo are cutting us to shreds through middle. I think we?ve already seen some improvement in this area this year. Go Dogs!!

There was a few mins in 2nd or 3rd qtr today when Bont, Richards and possibly Treloar were off ground and GWS made most of it. Hoping we can reduce instances of this by clever rotations, easier said than done. Turnaround when Bont went off in Q3 of ?21 GF still haunts me.

[bulldogtragic]

Not about the sharp axe.

But Bevo will keep pushing Tim as first ruck. Will keep with forwards who don’t kick goals. Will prioritise Gags while others with real or better numbers do t play and won’t tag properly and nullify blokes getting career best numbers each week against us.

I’m not saying sack him. But I’m saying I don’t think anything’s going to change while he’s in charge. So bring on 2025.

[JanLorMill]

The club isn’t ruthless enough. Which is one reason we are going nowhere. He needs to jump.

[SonofScray]

Season was a failure.

Results matter.

1 year to go on the contract, hasn’t earned an extension.

Will coach out the year because we won’t sack him.

Not a great scenario really.

[angelopetraglia]

We have a decent body of work to look back on now with Bevo

10 seasons
7 finals appearancs
1 only a single season with a losing game record (2018)
5 elimination finals losses
2 seasons where we won a final (2016 & 2021)
13 finals
7 finals wins
6 finals losses
2 GFs
1 Premiership

In the history of our club it is an incredible 10 years anway you judge it.

[JanLorMill]

We have a decent body of work to look back on now with Bevo

10 seasons
7 finals appearancs
1 only a single season with a losing game record (2018)
5 elimination finals losses
2 seasons where we won a final (2016 & 2021)
13 finals
7 finals wins
6 finals losses
2 GFs
1 Premiership

In the history of our club it is an incredible 10 years anway you judge it.
Judge the past. Predict the future. Not winning another under Bevo.

[jeemak]

I feel we're building again, a bit like 2019 and 2020, but I'm afraid we don't have the middle age bracket players to supplement the decline in some of our older brigade.

We also get a lot out of some lower skilled players when things are going well, but get badly exposed when they're not.

Beveridge gets his chance next year, I wouldn't be extending him until we see how things progress.

[macca]

We lack speed and elite kicks

We don't have crumbing forwards banging on the door. Harmes is not the answer

English is not a first ruck.
Also, not tagging Newcombe and Sicily tonight really hurt us.

[SonofScray]

I feel we're building again, a bit like 2019 and 2020, but I'm afraid we don't have the middle age bracket players to supplement the decline in some of our older brigade.

We also get a lot out of some lower skilled players when things are going well, but get badly exposed when they're not.

Beveridge gets his chance next year, I wouldn't be extending him until we see how things progress.
It’s out of whack, and will take time to sort out.

How much time?

Longer than I reckon Bevo has left.

[Rocket Science]

In quiet awe at this mob's abject refusal to meet the moment whenever the stakes rise.

[angelopetraglia]

I feel we're building again, a bit like 2019 and 2020, but I'm afraid we don't have the middle age bracket players to supplement the decline in some of our older brigade.

We also get a lot out of some lower skilled players when things are going well, but get badly exposed when they're not.

Beveridge gets his chance next year, I wouldn't be extending him until we see how things progress.

It does feel like at the moment, if we don't get dominant Brownlow medal voting games from a couple of Bont, Treloar or Richards we simply can't compete.

At least Richards being added to that mix has helped our age profile. Bont still has a couple of years left of elite footy and probably at least another three of very good football left in him. Treloar will be lucky to have one more elite year left. He is getting older and has a history of soft tissue. Hopefully he doesn't need any surgery and cang have another good preseason.

[Go_Dogs]

In quiet awe at this mob's abject refusal to meet the moment whenever the stakes rise.

It felt like this version could / would do better but it didn’t. Not when it counted most.

We just need to start the season better and not be racing to the finish line.

We have growth we have talent

[FrediKanoute]

It felt like this version could / would do better but it didn’t. Not when it counted most.

We just need to start the season better and not be racing to the finish line.

We have growth we have talent

Guys e are all hurting, best to give this time to settle and reflect.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Ok the day after we now out after a season that could have been but wasn?t. For me we showed we have it but we need to manage this lost in translation to the new gen. We had big name players all have shockers. Bont, Adz, JUH, Flea, English etc.

I?m looking forward 12 months and I can?t see Libba, MaCrea and Daniel playing in our next finals campaign. Libba is heart and soul but we n Ed to move on to life after the Camp. We love him but all three need to move on to allow others to flourish.

[anfo27]

I called for Bevo to go very early, the main reason was he wasn't getting the best out of the playing group. Thats changed to my eye so I'm happy for Bevo to remain. A lot of work to do but getting rid of Bevo isn't one of them but rather finding ways to complement what he does.

[Hotdog60]

The problem I see with us is we lack leg speed you can't put pressure on a kicker if you are chasing 5 metres behind.
I hate to say it but we need to replace Daniel, Duryea, Macrae, Liberatore and Treloar.

Daniel has been a great player for us but he has no penetration in his kicking and he stops and props every time he gets the ball which wasn't so much the case earlier on in his career.
Duryea tries his guts out but faster small forwards leave him in their wake.
Macrae I like but he is one paced and is a liability in the middle which is his A one spot.
Liberatore is a player that gives his all but speed is an issue again in the middle could he become a small forward for a season while he mentors Sanders.
Treloar has had a great season but another player that doesn't chase when required and this could be because of his soft tissue issues but last night it looked like Chol just strolled past him on the wing and Adam didn't even bother with trying to pressure him.

Next season we need some speed and grit into the midfield and some of these guys if they are still around need to help hand over the reins.

[anfo27]

The problem I see with us is we lack leg speed you can't put pressure on a kicker if you are chasing 5 metres behind.
I hate to say it but we need to replace Daniel, Duryea, Macrae, Liberatore and Treloar.

Daniel has been a great player for us but he has no penetration in his kicking and he stops and props every time he gets the ball which wasn't so much the case earlier on in his career.
Duryea tries his guts out but faster small forwards leave him in their wake.
Macrae I like but he is one paced and is a liability in the middle which is his A one spot.
Liberatore is a player that gives his all but speed is an issue again in the middle could he become a small forward for a season while he mentors Sanders.
Treloar has had a great season but another player that doesn't chase when required and this could be because of his soft tissue issues but last night it looked like Chol just strolled past him on the wing and Adam didn't even bother with trying to pressure him.

Next season we need some speed and grit into the midfield and some of these guys if they are still around need to help hand over the reins.

Every team looks slow when they lose. It was mental last night not physical. They just played with freedom, we on the other hand played with the freedom of a Dan Andrews lockdown.

[SonofScray]

Throwing a few comments out for consideration. Am absolutely livid even after a nights sleep so if you find it offensive, please feel free to get bent.


The relationship between Bont and Bevo is unhealthy. Much in the same way how a team in transition saw Johnno, Smith, West and co waxing and struggling to bring new players into the fold, it’s getting in the way.

The key tenet of of Bevo’s tenure is the unconditional love and support and loyalty to people at the Club. I think that’s an ego thing now and while it’s admirable, is unnecessary, dishonest and distracting.

The celebrations “you f’n ripper” with the players post GWS game look pathetic now. Loser mentality. Not good enough to just make it.

Teams that get belted repeatedly in finals don’t go on to win flags. We knew 2021 was gong to leave a scar and have seen that, but 19, 22 and 24 have been disastrous on that front too.

Members are not external noise.

2025 is already a wasted year. I’m not going to be showing any good will, full pressure, right out of the blocks. Not stopping until he is gone.

[Hotdog60]

Throwing a few comments out for consideration. Am absolutely livid even after a nights sleep so if you find it offensive, please feel free to get bent.


The relationship between Bont and Bevo is unhealthy. Much in the same way how a team in transition saw Johnno, Smith, West and co waxing and struggling to bring new players into the fold, it’s getting in the way.

The key tenet of of Bevo’s tenure is the unconditional love and support and loyalty to people at the Club. I think that’s an ego thing now and while it’s admirable, is unnecessary, dishonest and distracting.

The celebrations “you f’n ripper” with the players post GWS game look pathetic now. Loser mentality. Not good enough to just make it.

Teams that get belted repeatedly in finals don’t go on to win flags. We knew 2021 was gong to leave a scar and have seen that, but 19, 22 and 24 have been disastrous on that front too.

Members are not external noise.

2025 is already a wasted year. I’m not going to be showing any good will, full pressure, right out of the blocks. Not stopping until he is gone.

I'm sharpening my axe at Spangher our forward line should be performing better than it is and I know it's all about how it comes in but they should be giving better options for up field.
Also a forward coach should know how to get players to kick straight so Johnson shouldn't be needed.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'm sharpening my axe at Spangher our forward line should be performing better than it is and I know it's all about how it comes in but they should be giving better options for up field.
Also a forward coach should know how to get players to kick straight so Johnson shouldn't be needed.

I thought we were a small too short in the forward line. It came out of our forward so quickly all night. We never kept it in there.

[macca]

I thought we were a small too short in the forward line. It came out of our forward so quickly all night. We never kept it in there.

This has been a problem for us all year . With final's pressure these gaps just flare up.

I agree with @bulldogsthr&thur point that fwd line has fwd pressure definicency. So many times saw missed tackles. So it is either the technique is poor or they were too quick.

The number of set shots missed last night was just bewildering.

[soupman]

I thought we were a small too short in the forward line. It came out of our forward so quickly all night. We never kept it in there.

I thought we did a pretty good job of stifling their ball movement out of defence for most of the first half. It was once they started to really dominate territory and we were holding them back from half back instead of half forward that we got overwhelmed, and never really wrestled that momentum off them.

[Mantis]

I'm sharpening my axe at Spangher our forward line should be performing better than it is and I know it's all about how it comes in but they should be giving better options for up field.
Also a forward coach should know how to get players to kick straight so Johnson shouldn't be needed.

We were the 2nd highest scoring team all year so not sure Spangher is at fault, and last night we had **** all inside 50?s in Q2 & Q3 which was the issue.

Do agree our conversion needs to improve? Marra has a huge mental problem with it and it needs to be rectified 3 years ago. Wish he spent more time posting videos of himself practicing his goal kicking technique compared with functional movement exercises and boxing.

[JanLorMill]

Let’s do another review

[bulldogtragic]

Didn?t know where to post this exactly. But why can?t we adjust in games? We?ve turned up to play in the last three finals

Led by 8 points at HT in 2021
Led by 6 points at TQT in 2022
Led by 12 points at QT in 2024

So we can start finals well enough. But can?t put four quarters together. Why?

[Sedat]

Throwing a few comments out for consideration. Am absolutely livid even after a nights sleep so if you find it offensive, please feel free to get bent.


The relationship between Bont and Bevo is unhealthy. Much in the same way how a team in transition saw Johnno, Smith, West and co waxing and struggling to bring new players into the fold, it?s getting in the way.

The key tenet of of Bevo?s tenure is the unconditional love and support and loyalty to people at the Club. I think that?s an ego thing now and while it?s admirable, is unnecessary, dishonest and distracting.

The celebrations ?you f?n ripper? with the players post GWS game look pathetic now. Loser mentality. Not good enough to just make it.

Teams that get belted repeatedly in finals don?t go on to win flags. We knew 2021 was gong to leave a scar and have seen that, but 19, 22 and 24 have been disastrous on that front too.

Members are not external noise.

2025 is already a wasted year. I?m not going to be showing any good will, full pressure, right out of the blocks. Not stopping until he is gone.
Whilst I disagree with your position on Bevo having the ultimate responsibility for our recent finals failures (I think the senior players need to share much more of that accountability than they currently do), you always raise interesting points and do so from a clear passion for the club to get better - I love that stuff.

You need a coach to have the players back and you need the players to have the coach's back. Otherwise success (if any) will be fleeting - see Melbourne, who have destroyed a dynasty. Bevo is enormously loyal and protective of the players, and up to this year it was getting to the stage where this unwavering loyalty would cost him his job. But this year he has pulled different strings and forced established senior players into changing roles for the betterment of team success (was 18 months too late but better late than never). The next evolution of this is what he does with English, Libba and Treloar moving forward, because after getting a huge smack in the mouth last night he would be as aware as anybody that two-way running and speed and the ability to cover the entire ground in midfield are non-negotiables, not to mention having a ruckman who is assertive and competitive at stoppage.

He deserves to see out the contract next year and if we are trending in the right direction he deserves an extension of 2 years. If we fall away next year, and especially if we don't add pieces to our best 23 that are in line with modern tactics/expectations, he will finish up with us this time next year. I'm far more interested in the players (particularly the ones I mentioned earlier) and how they respond to what took place last night - I'll give Treloar an out as he was hampered by injury (he probably shouldn't have been selected but that's another story).

This competition is brutal and he is 7-6 in finals and has made September 7 out of 10 times and 2 GF's. It's a very good record - not the absolute best but better than most. The senior players need to own a lot of last night - yes there were a couple of puzzling positional moves/tactics but he switched the magnets around (unlike Hinkley the night before) and tried to get things moving on the night.

Just maybe Hawthorn started their premiership push against us in R8 (they have gone 15-4 since then). They remind me of Richmond 2017, who were a laughing stock in the middle of that season when they lost 2-3 unlosable games.

[W W Biscuit]

I thought we were a small too short in the forward line. It came out of our forward so quickly all night. We never kept it in there.

For some reason, this phrase is really messing with my mind.

[GVGjr]

Throwing a few comments out for consideration. Am absolutely livid even after a nights sleep so if you find it offensive, please feel free to get bent.


The relationship between Bont and Bevo is unhealthy. Much in the same way how a team in transition saw Johnno, Smith, West and co waxing and struggling to bring new players into the fold, it’s getting in the way.

The key tenet of of Bevo’s tenure is the unconditional love and support and loyalty to people at the Club. I think that’s an ego thing now and while it’s admirable, is unnecessary, dishonest and distracting.

The celebrations “you f’n ripper” with the players post GWS game look pathetic now. Loser mentality. Not good enough to just make it.

Teams that get belted repeatedly in finals don’t go on to win flags. We knew 2021 was gong to leave a scar and have seen that, but 19, 22 and 24 have been disastrous on that front too.

Members are not external noise.

2025 is already a wasted year. I’m not going to be showing any good will, full pressure, right out of the blocks. Not stopping until he is gone.

We've been exchanging views for more than 20 years and you know I respect your opinions even when they differ greatly from mine.
There is a lot of work in front of the club, structurally the list is close to where we need it to be but this will be a challenging trade and draft period for us. We've got some hard calls to make and probably given our ladder position some tough clubs to deal with.
It's essential we make a lot of right calls on players.

I'm not anywhere near the 'Bevo has to go' position and I think there is even some reasons why we could even be talking about an extension but a lot of that will be determined on the decisions we make in the next few months.

[bornadog]

I'm sharpening my axe at Spangher our forward line should be performing better than it is and I know it's all about how it comes in but they should be giving better options for up field.
Also a forward coach should know how to get players to kick straight so Johnson shouldn't be needed.

Yet we kicked the second highest points for , for the year.:confused:

[SonofScray]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/09/07/questions-answer-themselves-whateleys-harsh-thoughts-on-bulldogs-coach/?

Regardless of my position, I think this article is where the conversation goes from now.

Appreciate that folk feel this year was enough to see it out, I was almost ready to go that way if we won a final.

Now though, I don?t see why we?d delay. Different contexts but in the NHL there?d be no question about moving on now.

[DOG GOD]

For mine, it’s not only beveridge but the playing list needs to really be looked at, especially the mids. And sanders is not going to be the answer to the biggest problem….pace.

[GVGjr]

Yet we kicked the second highest points for , for the year.:confused:

Stats at the high level can be misleading.
It's actually very close to what we scored last year with Bont and West having a sharp increase ain the goals they kicked and the emergence of Darcy that really moved the needle.

Naughton (in 23 then 24)
44 goals, 35 goals (-9)
Ugle-Hagan
35 goals, 43 goals (+8)
Weightman
34 goals, 27 goals (-7)
Darcy
0, 38 (+38)
Lobb
24 goals, 5 goals (-19 but a lot less games and a positional move)
Bontempelli
19 goals, 32 goals (+13)
English
16 goals, 14 goals (-2)
Treloar
13 goals, 16 goals (+3)
West
7 goals, 25 goals (+18 and 9 extra games)

Sure some of the games the player completes can change the scores but I've called out the major differences.

I could go deeper but to me there is a sameness about who's kicking the goals and part of the reason why our % is stronger and also misleading when it comes to how people view our forward line is because Daniel Pratt has been able to tighten up our defensive unit. I'd also think that we often filled our goal tally against some very weak teams this year.

I don't agree with any assessment that our forward line is fine because we still aren't improving that much with goal kicking accuracy and it just hurts us when it counts. It seems to me that we lack some team work and leading patterns there as well.
I don't think we can't blame Spangher for this but the effectiveness for our forward line does need to be reviewed.

[Hotdog60]

I fine our forward line is always congested and on a whole we don't lead to the ball carrier that much so I think the system is up the putty somewhere so that's why I'm heading Spangher. Should there be more spread more movement.

[jeemak]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/09/07/questions-answer-themselves-whateleys-harsh-thoughts-on-bulldogs-coach/?

Regardless of my position, I think this article is where the conversation goes from now.

Appreciate that folk feel this year was enough to see it out, I was almost ready to go that way if we won a final.

Now though, I don?t see why we?d delay. Different contexts but in the NHL there?d be no question about moving on now.

The problem with Whately's comments, and this is often reflected in media commentary, is that he seems to want to punish the coach for the things he himself got wrong.

- We started the year inconsistently after changing personnel on/ off-field and game/ approach

- We then started to play more consistent, high quality football and beat some good teams. But we still lost to Brisbane by a LOT at home and shat the bed twice in Adelaide

- Irrespective of the evidence showing we remain susceptible to lapses, Whately and his media mates anoint us preliminary final or premiership chances

- We improve our win/ loss versus last year, and visibly improve some areas. Our weaknesses in leg speed and quality around the wings/ flanks have been addressed to an extent, but not enough and can't be any further until the post season. Our inexperienced forwards in JUH and Darcy are still exactly that, but will be better off after last night (well, they should be). Naughton plays his part with three. Jones shows what a 34 year old might look like, Lobb plays really well. Our midfield shits the bed, with less being said about our ruckman the better

- We don't win the final. The media irrespective of all the above, just wants to blame someone so the coach gets it? The two major moves that really improved us this year were coaching related

How about we get media that actually understands what's happening? If Whately wants to talk about patterns then let's talk about patterns. We lose an elimination final or two in a row, we end up making a grand final pretty soon after. I'll be happy enough if history repeats itself.

[FrediKanoute]

I thought we were a small too short in the forward line. It came out of our forward so quickly all night. We never kept it in there.

I'm not going to say that West not playing would have made a difference, but he is a pressure player and I can't help but think that we made a mistake there if he was fully fit.

We talk about being one paced, but to me Harmes is Macrae - maybe a little better defensively, but less able to find the footy.

Can't help but think that as we got closer to September we erred towards seasoned players rather than some of the guys who had played well to get us there.....Garcia (I know in and out, but his speed and pressure would have been great); Poulter - another who plays a role, has pace.

Also can't fathom playing Bramble up the field when he has been great n the backline.

If I had a concern its the way we lost - our pressure game wasn't there. Just like it wasn't there against Adelaide, Brisbane, Port Adelaide and a number of other losses this year. Just like the letting teams get a run on problem that emerged post the 2021 GF, this seems to be our main affliction. The thing is too you can almost spot from the first bounce. I don't think its a coach thing.

In terms of Bevo - he did better than I thought this year. Not just because of the finals, but because the way we played, who we beat was quality. We saw players develop. We saw the old guard take a step back. I like what I saw and I want us to step it up again next year. If we do he gets his extension.

[azabob]

The problem with Whately's comments, and this is often reflected in media commentary, is that he seems to want to punish the coach for the things he himself got wrong.

- We started the year inconsistently after changing personnel on/ off-field and game/ approach

- We then started to play more consistent, high quality football and beat some good teams. But we still lost to Brisbane by a LOT at home and shat the bed twice in Adelaide

- Irrespective of the evidence showing we remain susceptible to lapses, Whately and his media mates anoint us preliminary final or premiership chances

- We improve our win/ loss versus last year, and visibly improve some areas. Our weaknesses in leg speed and quality around the wings/ flanks have been addressed to an extent, but not enough and can't be any further until the post season. Our inexperienced forwards in JUH and Darcy are still exactly that, but will be better off after last night (well, they should be). Naughton plays his part with three. Jones shows what a 34 year old might look like, Lobb plays really well. Our midfield shits the bed, with less being said about our ruckman the better

- We don't win the final. The media irrespective of all the above, just wants to blame someone so the coach gets it? The two major moves that really improved us this year were coaching related

How about we get media that actually understands what's happening? If Whately wants to talk about patterns then let's talk about patterns. We lose an elimination final or two in a row, we end up making a grand final pretty soon after. I'll be happy enough if history repeats itself.

jeemak, not sure if you listened to the audio rather than just reading the transcript, it wasn’t the worst discussion on our position going into next year. The club has a lot to think about.

https://megaphone.link/NTETP3625836195

[Scorlibo]

Whateley is spot on. He's not purely saying that we should move Bevo on, he's saying don't go into a season with the coach having one year left on his contract.

We should be giving someone 3 years, and I reckon that someone should be Bevo. Honestly the decision on this should have been made at the end of last year. The list has already started the process of being transitioned, this is a new team and new era for the club. Next year Bont may be the only remaining Bullgod as a regular in the seniors.

This year has been a year of experimentation, and to have found the form/profile we did was nothing short of amazing. Maybe there was expectation externally to perform but internally they've been throwing magnets around and changing the way we play, knowing that we wouldn't challenge with the same team and setup.

If we were to take Bevo in with one year left on his contract, the pressure that creates on performance would be counter-productive to the experimentation and rebuild that needs to continue. Inertia is not an option.

[GVGjr]

Whateley is spot on. He's not purely saying that we should move Bevo on, he's saying don't go into a season with the coach having one year left on his contract.

We should be giving someone 3 years, and I reckon that someone should be Bevo. Honestly the decision on this should have been made at the end of last year. The list has already started the process of being transitioned, this is a new team and new era for the club. Next year Bont may be the only remaining Bullgod as a regular in the seniors.

This year has been a year of experimentation, and to have found the form/profile we did was nothing short of amazing. Maybe there was expectation externally to perform but internally they've been throwing magnets around and changing the way we play, knowing that we wouldn't challenge with the same team and setup.

If we were to take Bevo in with one year left on his contract, the pressure that creates on performance would be counter-productive to the experimentation and rebuild that needs to continue. Inertia is not an option.

The club will know if they genuinely have an intention or a wish to keep Bevo at the club beyond 2025 and if that is the case then they should get something in front of him very soon. If they are unsure or they would prefer to test the market they should have that discussion with him now because an unsigned coach is a massive distraction for the club especially after every loss.
A wait and see approach to see how the season turns out before committing or not won't work that well.

We basically owe it to Bevo to communicate our intent on extending his contract or not and it needs to be done by quickly.

[westbulldog]

The loss is still raw but we could look to trade Duryea, Harmes, Macrae and Daniel for starters. Weightman and Ugle-Hagan's performance was woeful and they need a rocket for not showing up on the big stage.

[bornadog]

The loss is still raw but we could look to trade Duryea, Harmes, Macrae and Daniel for starters. Weightman and Ugle-Hagan's performance was woeful and they need a rocket for not showing up on the big stage.

Duryea is untradeable - he will be 34 at the start of season next year.

[GVGjr]

The loss is still raw but we could look to trade Duryea, Harmes, Macrae and Daniel for starters. Weightman and Ugle-Hagan's performance was woeful and they need a rocket for not showing up on the big stage.

Duryea has no trade value and he is out of contract anyway. Harmes is locked in for 2 more years and given his output this year wasn't impressive it's unlikely he would even want to be traded or there is an interested club. Macrae and Daniels might consider offers but we won't get much in a trade for them unless we contribute some of their contract to an interested club.

[westbulldog]

Duryea has no trade value and he is out of contract anyway. Harmes is locked in for 2 more years and given his output this year wasn't impressive it's unlikely he would even want to be traded or there is an interested club. Macrae and Daniels might consider offers but we won't get much in a trade for them unless we contribute some of their contract to an interested club.

So who do you think goes off the list for 2025 ?

[GVGjr]

So who do you think goes off the list for 2025 ?

I've done something on the list management thread

[Topdog]

We had a huge review of everything, came 6th and lost our only final.
In reality we played 1 month of really good football, for me that simply is not good enough. I would be looking to move Bevo on now.

[DOG GOD]

We had a huge review of everything, came 6th and lost our only final.
In reality we played 1 month of really good football, for me that simply is not good enough. I would be looking to move Bevo on now.
Yep I’ve got the feeling that 4-5 weeks of great football will sugar coat the season in general.

[Grantysghost]

Yep I’ve got the feeling that 4-5 weeks of great football will sugar coat the season in general.

It was our 2016 finals run at the wrong time!

[mighty_west]

The loss is still raw but we could look to trade Duryea, Harmes, Macrae and Daniel for starters. Weightman and Ugle-Hagan's performance was woeful and they need a rocket for not showing up on the big stage.

We still need to keep experience and depth, understand the poor display on Friday night but most of the team was poor, from those 4 only Macrae and Daniel are tradable and i'd prefer we keep both (unless they wanted out), hopefully we can acquire a quality player of need with the Baz trade.

Hopefully Westy doesn't crack the sads and request a trade, that would hurt.

[SonofScray]

We had a huge review of everything, came 6th and lost our only final.
In reality we played 1 month of really good football, for me that simply is not good enough. I would be looking to move Bevo on now.

The 1 month thing is part of what has us by the balls. The flag has been reframed as ?just? one good month at the right time and therefore it can happen again if we are in striking distance.

[bornadog]

We had a huge review of everything, came 6th and lost our only final.
In reality we played 1 month of really good football, for me that simply is not good enough. I would be looking to move Bevo on now.

or

We won 11 of the last 15 pre final - not just a month of good footy.

[Grantysghost]

or

We won 11 of the last 15 pre final - not just a month of good footy.
That's top 4 form.

It's that crows game that burns me. We were never in it. That's our top 4 spot.

We would have played the Swans this week and been either in a prelim or playing the Lions at the G to get into one.

I was dirty at the time as it was clear that was the top 4 game.

I think that was the fail of the season.

[bornadog]

That's top 4 form.

It's that crows game that burns me. We were never in it. That's our top 4 spot.

We would have played the Swans this week and been either in a prelim or playing the Lions at the G to get into one.

I was dirty at the time and it was clear that was the top 4 game.

I think that was the fail of the season.

Couldn't agree more, we stuffed up and we need to work out why then and why Friday we just weren't on.

There is no need to slash and burn and blame the coach - we know what we are capable of. Head coach is not what it use to be. Assistants are the key and like the EPL, head coach is the team Manager, who, coordinates, and managers the coaching TEAM.

We saw some great wins in Geelong, SCG, Giants twice, Pies, demons, Carlton, smashed FREO when they were in top 4.

We need to tweak a few positions like small backman and small forwards and we can be top 4.
Keyback could also be something we need to look at - we have Gardner and Buzz coming through, so we could cover that too if Jones is not up to it next year.

Also, as I said in List Management thread, pay Smith big bucks and give him CBA - FFS he is 23.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

For mine. I think that after last year review and the injection of 4 to 5 new bulldogs into the side. I don?t see the need to change much. Bevo is safe and I think that we should trade CD, MaCrae and Baz. No doubt in my mind that we broke the number one rule of finals. We took unfit players into a final.

Trade these few. Next year we will see further growth and our your guys and we were actually a better midfield group without Libba. I love this guys but he is stopping the next generation of people and the game has gone past him now.

Great clubs make good calls.

We had the full season to train at WO and he I?ll be better off for it again next year.

I would also extend Bevo for 3 years. I think this year has been more predictable at selection and the side has come together in the back half of the season.

We also need to sure up Bevo as tassie will be looking for a coach and assistants. So unless we know of a coach waiting in the wings we need to lock Bevo on and back him in to get us to the top of the mountain in the next three years.

[jeemak]

jeemak, not sure if you listened to the audio rather than just reading the transcript, it wasn?t the worst discussion on our position going into next year. The club has a lot to think about.

https://megaphone.link/NTETP3625836195

I didn't listen to the commentary, and only read the transcript.

So Whately's words may be been taken out of context, or not represented fully and that's fine.

However, what I say about the media getting it wrong and wanting to punish clubs and coaches for it stands.

[Danjul]

For mine. I think that after last year review and the injection of 4 to 5 new bulldogs into the side. I don?t see the need to change much. Bevo is safe and I think that we should trade CD, MaCrae and Baz. No doubt in my mind that we broke the number one rule of finals. We took unfit players into a final.

Trade these few. Next year we will see further growth and our your guys and we were actually a better midfield group without Libba. I love this guys but he is stopping the next generation of people and the game has gone past him now.

Great clubs make good calls.

We had the full season to train at WO and he I?ll be better off for it again next year.

I would also extend Bevo for 3 years. I think this year has been more predictable at selection and the side has come together in the back half of the season.

We also need to sure up Bevo as tassie will be looking for a coach and assistants. So unless we know of a coach waiting in the wings we need to lock Bevo on and back him in to get us to the top of the mountain in the next three years.

I was at the game in Ballarat that locked up a final position. Great relief.

Both of your two rejects played (I?m assuming Smith is walking). Both got 23 high quality disposals.

How did others go? Freijah 16. Bramble 15. Gallagher 13. McNeil 9. Jones/Vander 9.

Cannot see anything near 23. But maybe I am looking in the wrong place. I should focus on those who got more.

Richards 29. Dale 27. Libba 24. Treloar 24.

In case anyone is wondering, they are the only bulldog players who had more disposals than CD and Macrae.

Only 4 players got more possessions to lock in Friday?s embarrassment. (They should be traded for that crime!)

So lets move on to that catastrophe.

The AFL website has details relevant to Friday?s humiliating spectacle. It claims Meek was best on ground. It has Hawks as the best 4. I am pretty happy with that assessment. Their best Bulldogs come in at 5 and 8.

And who might they be? Injured??? Treloar and Daniel.

That can?t be correct can it? Where are all our stars? Personally I thought Lobb was our best and without him we would have finished 10 goals behind. But independent reviewers said Daniel was better than most. They didn?t say that of Macrae. I wonder why.

[soupman]

Daniel may have been better than most but that doesn't mean he makes us better.

[macca]

Couldn't agree more, we stuffed up and we need to work out why then and why Friday we just weren't on.

There is no need to slash and burn and blame the coach - we know what we are capable of. Head coach is not what it use to be. Assistants are the key and like the EPL, head coach is the team Manager, who, coordinates, and managers the coaching TEAM.

We saw some great wins in Geelong, SCG, Giants twice, Pies, demons, Carlton, smashed FREO when they were in top 4.

We need to tweak a few positions like small backman and small forwards and we can be top 4.
Keyback could also be something we need to look at - we have Gardner and Buzz coming through, so we could cover that too if Jones is not up to it next year.

Also, as I said in List Management thread, pay Smith big bucks and give him CBA - FFS he is 23.

Good list management requires tough decisions as they know internally who can grow to fill the void

Geelong: Kelly(40), Stokes(11), Chapman(29) , ironically they all went to Essendon, with only Kelly playing more than 30 games ( 2 full seasons??)

Hawks: Tom Mitchell, Jordan Lewis, Sam Mitchell

[JanLorMill]

We can change personnel but it won’t fix all problems.

[Danjul]

Daniel may have been better than most but that doesn't mean he makes us better.
Absolute nonsense. Better than most doesn?t make us better?

He and Macrae have more natural ability than half of the team that shamed themselves on Friday.

Against GWS Macrae was second best for tackles. That is putting on pressure effectively.

Who had least clangers Macrae. I can appreciate quality when I see it.

That?s why I applauded one of Daniel?s kicks that day. It hit A Jones on the lead perfectly. Naturally Arty has the goal, he kicked well. But Daniel made him look good. Also got a goal of his own when we needed it. In what was a tight game for a long time his contribution was extremely valuable.

And remember, Richards had 29 possessions but 8 are in the record book as clangers.

I have always seen Richards as a valuable player, but in the last two games Daniel has been better.

I understand that for CD and Macrae their time is coming to an end, but they are still valuable, especially when team selection can lead to what we were given this weekend.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I was at the game in Ballarat that locked up a final position. Great relief.

Both of your two rejects played (I?m assuming Smith is walking). Both got 23 high quality disposals.

How did others go? Freijah 16. Bramble 15. Gallagher 13. McNeil 9. Jones/Vander 9.

Cannot see anything near 23. But maybe I am looking in the wrong place. I should focus on those who got more.

Richards 29. Dale 27. Libba 24. Treloar 24.

In case anyone is wondering, they are the only bulldog players who had more disposals than CD and Macrae.

Only 4 players got more possessions to lock in Friday?s embarrassment. (They should be traded for that crime!)

So lets move on to that catastrophe.

The AFL website has details relevant to Friday?s humiliating spectacle. It claims Meek was best on ground. It has Hawks as the best 4. I am pretty happy with that assessment. Their best Bulldogs come in at 5 and 8.

And who might they be? Injured??? Treloar and Daniel.

That can?t be correct can it? Where are all our stars? Personally I thought Lobb was our best and without him we would have finished 10 goals behind. But independent reviewers said Daniel was better than most. They didn?t say that of Macrae. I wonder why.
Just saying 12 months on when we get to the 2025 finals. We will not be the same side that played the Hawks this year.

All good sides have speed. Cats, Hawks, Power Blues, GWS etc. we can match them for grunt and class but we need some more speed and what I do believe is that unfortunately Lidda, CD and MaCrae will not be part of the solution. Get something for them while we can.

[Danjul]

Just saying 12 months on when we get to the 2025 finals. We will not be the same side that played the Hawks this year.

All good sides have speed. Cats, Hawks, Power Blues, GWS etc. we can match them for grunt and class but we need some more speed and what I do believe is that unfortunately Lidda, CD and MaCrae will not be part of the solution. Get something for them while we can.
I can see merit in that logic but?

On Friday Macrae came on during the third quarter and got 30% game time.

From that moment Hawthorn kicked 4 goals and the Dogs got 4 goals.

What happened to the bloodbath that had people near me already leaving? You know, where Hawthorn got 8 of 9 consecutive goals. Memories of the 2021 GF.

When Macrae came on things went back to normal and the person next to me put away their kindle and came back to the footy.

The spin and promise around the four headed monster was a lie.

And so is the fact that two of our more talented players have to make way for speedsters who can?t get the ball, and when it falls into their lap can?t kick a goal from 30 metres when the team desperately needs it. At halftime the Dogs had kicked 2 goals from 6 shots within 30 metres of goal.

That is where the focus should be. We have a team that lacks skills. How did Sicily get 10 disposals in the second quarter? Because players trying to be speedsters kept kicking the ball to him. Yes, they were aiming for the teammate 15 metres away in the clear, but as I said, this group lacks basic skills when the pressure is applied.

both Daniel and Macrae have been close to our best players when they have been on the ground in the last two games. The word reliable comes to mind.

unless you replace what they are delivering the team will go backwards.

[Mofra]

The loss is still raw but we could look to trade Duryea, Harmes, Macrae and Daniel for starters. Weightman and Ugle-Hagan's performance was woeful and they need a rocket for not showing up on the big stage.
How sharp are our axes?

To me there is a big problem in the middle and it hurts because he's been my favourite player for a long time, but it's Libba.
It's great he flies the flag but his opponent burns him off so many times from stoppage he's gone from our most underrated player to potentially a liability against the top midfields.

I would absolutely 100% keep Macrae as he now seems to have his head around playing outside the contest, but still has ball winning nous. He's had half the opportunity of our 'A grade' mids this year but sits among them comfortably for clearances (on a TOG basis).

Liam Jones has slowed down towards the back end of the season too so I have concerns he's a week in, week out proposition.
With Barrass saying no, do we get a stop gap or just throw Buss to the wolves? At this point, I'm leaning towards option B. He was a mile off the pace in his first year but has been brilliant playing an old-school FB role at VFL level, taking kickouts and getting involved in chains from our last line. Cop the early season hit to accelerate his development.

Duryea absolutely deserves another year but we still have no replacement and it's a massive worry. Moniz-Wakefield is apparently on our radar and he has pace so could be an option but he might not be ready to go next year.

Chook's a great VFL close to goal small forward but at AFL level our deepest smalls still need to get up and defend the ground. Can he do that? Ever? I have concerns.

[Bullies]

How sharp are our axes?

To me there is a big problem in the middle and it hurts because he's been my favourite player for a long time, but it's Libba.
It's great he flies the flag but his opponent burns him off so many times from stoppage he's gone from our most underrated player to potentially a liability against the top midfields.

I would absolutely 100% keep Macrae as he now seems to have his head around playing outside the contest, but still has ball winning nous. He's had half the opportunity of our 'A grade' mids this year but sits among them comfortably for clearances (on a TOG basis).

Liam Jones has slowed down towards the back end of the season too so I have concerns he's a week in, week out proposition.
With Barrass saying no, do we get a stop gap or just throw Buss to the wolves? At this point, I'm leaning towards option B. He was a mile off the pace in his first year but has been brilliant playing an old-school FB role at VFL level, taking kickouts and getting involved in chains from our last line. Cop the early season hit to accelerate his development.

Duryea absolutely deserves another year but we still have no replacement and it's a massive worry. Moniz-Wakefield is apparently on our radar and he has pace so could be an option but he might not be ready to go next year.

Chook's a great VFL close to goal small forward but at AFL level our deepest smalls still need to get up and defend the ground. Can he do that? Ever? I have concerns. I said earlier in the year when Libba was out for awhile that I didn't want to be the one that shoots Bambi but we moved the ball out of the middle so much better when he was absent. I think next year they may need to go "horses for courses" where Libba can play at Marvel and only against teams that done have pace to burn. The G and Adelaide Oval are not his favorite hunting grounds and some of our worse losses.

In defense of Jones the Hawks took him well out of the game. At one stage there I watched as Jones opponent was standing behind the point post. There was no way they were letting him influence the game. Buss will come in next year and be ready to go with the grounding he has had. As much as a lot of supporters don't rate Gardner he also plays the shut down role which none of the other defenders do and he does it well. Just don't give ball in hand.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Read somewhere we've only won finals in 2/10 seasons under Bevo. So that would mean 5 EF losses.

Yes, we won the flag and made the GF in the other year, but that's a record that is starting to work against Bevo in a weird but understandable way.

I think it highlights our tenure so far under Bevo - consistently inconsistent. Capable of the extraordinary (2016) but more likely to deliver frustration and disappointment (basically every other year - 2021 included in the end).

This whole thing is quite complex and much of the blame still rests with the players, but it is the list he has assembled after all, and it's the lapses he still cannot fix. The issues we've faced since 2017 essentially remain and the build up of EF losses is looking pretty awful, given how we've also underperformed in that time.

I'd like to see us move in a different direction.

[bulldogtragic]

Read somewhere we've only won finals in 2/10 seasons under Bevo. So that would mean 5 EF losses.

Yes, we won the flag and made the GF in the other year, but that's a record that is starting to work against Bevo in a weird but understandable way.

I think it highlights our tenure so far under Bevo - consistently inconsistent. Capable of the extraordinary (2016) but more likely to deliver frustration and disappointment (basically every other year - 2021 included in the end).

This whole thing is quite complex and much of the blame still rests with the players, but it is the list he has assembled after all, and it's the lapses he still cannot fix. The issues we've faced since 2017 essentially remain and the build up of EF losses is looking pretty awful, given how we've also underperformed in that time.

I'd like to see us move in a different direction.

The problem I have is that Bevo refuses to adjust to some key things:

- won’t actually tag an oppo mid out of killing us, a lot of players got PB or resurgent headlines (Fyffe) when playing us
- won’t stop guys like Sicily from killing us every time
- won’t adjust his ideas on Tim as the first ruck
- won’t allow some guys to bank good performances (West) while others get games (Gags)
- has left field ideas like not starting Tim earlier this year, and Marra on the bench as season leading goal kicker Friday
- still has periods in some games where he’s woefully outcoached
- says we are going to start the season really well each year, and we lose the first couple or so
- still hasn’t gotten us to a top four finish, after 10 attempts


I think he’s made some improvements this year, and if he was prepared to change his core beliefs on things that are right/wrong then I’d be more inclined to give him more rope. But the thing is, the things that hold us back are the things you must accept by keeping him in the job. He’s not going to change and that’s fine, that’s him. But part of keeping him around is to accept that changes that could really help improve things won’t eventuate while he is coach. It’s almost for me not about him or personality. It’s about ideas. I’d like to see change in ideas not necessarily coaches. But realistically like any man of a certain age, he’s not changing the core beliefs he has. Even if it means not achieving success again because he so strongly believes it will happen even when the league is moving in other directions.

I don’t think the club will move him on and he won’t walk. But I’m tired of the same things playing out because he’s fixated on certain ideas. I wouldn’t sign him any time soon even if his contract is a distraction. And if we keep making the same mistakes again then it’s time to try something else to stop making them. I mean if he walked, I wouldn’t be unhappy.

[Sedat]

After Friday night, I am completely on the fence on Bevo long-term. The pros and cons have been articulated and there's clear merit on both sides. At 14-9 before Friday night and with the methods/tactics deployed by the club under Bevo and the revamped MC this season, we felt more trustworthy and much less reliant on Bont brilliance to drag us over the line. We developed a turnover game to compliment our traditional stoppage/territory game, we had role players performing genuinely important roles, we comprehensively beat top 4 teams throughout the last 4 months, our percentage and scoring/defending profile indicated we had a rock-solid foundation that would hold us in good stead this finals series. Honestly, 2024 has felt different all year (until Friday night) to 2022-23, which were amongst the most frustrating and untrustworthy we've had in any season. But here we are essentially in the same place as 2022-23, and with a finals performance that was ruthlessly exposed as sub-par both in the box and out on the ground. Bevo has loyalty to his players that is both his greatest strength and weakness. The ruck situation has been discussed ad nauseum and it has obviously hurt us so bad for so long in big games - Bevo's loyalty here has paid a big price. So has the lack of defensive work in midfield/inability to curb opposition run-ons. The players can't have an out here - it is shared accountability.

Bevo clearly can coach and motivate a playing group better than most. Can he tactically adjust and adapt mid career, like Chris Scott and Longmire have successfully been able to? Would it change people's opinion if say Hawthorn did a Richmond 2017 and smashed the next 3 opponents en route to a flag with an 18-4 record after Round 5? That would make us just another team below the level of the dominant premier.

We have to be ruthless like we've never been before this off-season. This competition stops for nobody.

[Topdog]

or

We won 11 of the last 15 pre final - not just a month of good footy.

That 11 of the last 15 included a patch where we went 3-3.

We then put in a month of good consistent football to win 4 games in a row, followed by an abject failure against Adelaide, beating up on a helpless North and a good win vs GWS.

In terms of consistency we've had 1 good month

[Mantis]

After Friday night, I am completely on the fence on Bevo long-term. The pros and cons have been articulated and there's clear merit on both sides. At 14-9 before Friday night and with the methods/tactics deployed by the club under Bevo and the revamped MC this season, we felt more trustworthy and much less reliant on Bont brilliance to drag us over the line. We developed a turnover game to compliment our traditional stoppage/territory game, we had role players performing genuinely important roles, we comprehensively beat top 4 teams throughout the last 4 months, our percentage indicated we had a rock-solid foundation that would hold us in good stead this finals series. Honestly, 2024 has felt different all year (until Friday night) to 2022-23, which were amongst the most frustrating and untrustworthy we've had in any season. But here we are essentially in the same place as 2022-23, and with a finals performance that was ruthlessly exposed as sub-par both in the box and out on the ground. Bevo has loyalty to his players that is both his greatest strength and weakness. The ruck situation has been discussed ad nauseum and it has obviously hurt us so bad for so long in big games - Bevo's loyalty here has paid a big price. So has the lack of defensive work in midfield/inability to curb opposition run-ons. The players can't have an out here - it is shared accountability.

Bevo clearly can coach and motivate a playing group better than most. Can he tactically adjust and adapt mid career, like Chris Scott and Longmire have successfully been able to? Would it change people's opinion if say Hawthorn did a Richmond 2017 and smashed the next 3 opponents en route to a flag with an 18-4 record after Round 5? That would make us just another team below the level of the dominant premier.

We have to be ruthless like we've never been before this off-season. This competition stops for nobody.

Good summation.

I too was relatively happy to have a wait and see how our performance in the finals played out before determining how we proceed, but Friday night showed once again all the things we struggle with.

- we couldn't move the ball! After being the number 1 team all year in transferring the ball from D50 to F50 we were only successful once in our first 30 attempts. It was a shambles.

- team selection - it was a huge failure. JOD couldn't hold Dear and shouldn't have played. Gallagher who has been backed in all year had no impact. I know you need your key pillars to perform well, and that didn't happen, but we've seen this year positive contributions from our lesser likes, and we didn't really see that against the Hawks. Treloar really shouldn't have played... he couldn't run to defend and with him & Libba being tailed off we were always 2 short across the ground.

- English - once again was obliterated by a more combative opponent.

- Midfield - couldn't run with their opponents on the spread and when we won the ball we couldn't move it effectively.

- Rotations - Some really puzzling calls as called out in a number of threads. Not sure in what play book we had Naughton going to the ruck, but it screamed that the MC were out of ideas. Perhaps just fed up with Timid English playing poorly.

- No plan for the opposition's interceptors - it was farcical.

Like you I have a huge watch on how we get ourselves ready for 2025 and I'm in absolutely no rush to sign on Bevo. I'm not concerned about the external noise, it's a big boys league so we need to be strong and let the performances of the team dictate our direction.

[jeemak]

Read somewhere we've only won finals in 2/10 seasons under Bevo. So that would mean 5 EF losses.

Yes, we won the flag and made the GF in the other year, but that's a record that is starting to work against Bevo in a weird but understandable way.

I think it highlights our tenure so far under Bevo - consistently inconsistent. Capable of the extraordinary (2016) but more likely to deliver frustration and disappointment (basically every other year - 2021 included in the end).

This whole thing is quite complex and much of the blame still rests with the players, but it is the list he has assembled after all, and it's the lapses he still cannot fix. The issues we've faced since 2017 essentially remain and the build up of EF losses is looking pretty awful, given how we've also underperformed in that time.

I'd like to see us move in a different direction.

The only EF that I think is unforgiveable is the Freo one, where a grand finalist team that should have won gave up a substantial lead following a great start.

All of the other years were rebuild or transitional years for the club, including this one, and while the results in themselves weren't great I can understand them. 2022 I can't make an excuse for.

[Sedat]

The only EF that I think is unforgiveable is the Freo one, where a grand finalist team that should have won gave up a substantial lead following a great start.

All of the other years were rebuild or transitional years for the club, including this one, and while the results in themselves weren't great I can understand them. 2022 I can't make an excuse for.
You're far too kind to this team, Jee.

GWS 2019 performance was shameful - not the end result but the meek acceptance of our fate on the day.

St Kilda 2020 was completely unacceptable as well - another game where English as no 1 ruck was incredibly costly, with Ryder giving silver service and helping St Kilda directly to 4 goals from boundary stoppages alone (out of 10 goals total).

Leading Freo by 40 points in 2022 is the worst of the lot, but only by a matter of degrees. Of course we all know Sean Darcy was BOG in ruck directly against English as well that night.

Friday night was pretty ghastly as well. It will only age (slightly) better if Hawthorn run the table for the rest of the season.

[jeemak]

You're far too kind to this team, Jee.

GWS 2019 performance was shameful - not the end result but the meek acceptance of our fate on the day.

St Kilda 2020 was completely unacceptable as well - another game where English as no 1 ruck was incredibly costly, with Ryder giving silver service and helping St Kilda directly to 4 goals from boundary stoppages alone (out of 10 goals total).

Leading Freo by 40 points in 2022 is the worst of the lot, but only by a matter of degrees. Of course we all know Sean Darcy was BOG in ruck directly against English as well that night.

Friday night was pretty ghastly as well. It will only age (slightly) better if Hawthorn run the table for the rest of the season.

The results on the day for each of 2019, 2020 and Friday night were complete horror shows, but where we actually ended up in terms of the season and ladder positions is to me relatively aligned with where our development suggested we should be.

The sum of the parts versus our on paper individual personnel has always been overrated to me, especially in 2019 and 2020.

[azabob]

Okay, so it is highly likely Beveridge will be senior coach in 2025.

What other changes we should look to make to push us into the top four.

Beveridge seemed a lot more refreshed and energised, gut feel Matthew Egan helped with this, Chris Grant appeared to be skating on thin ice during the external review and was moved sideways. Not sure what this means for Grant.

We invested a lot in bringing in Jarryn Geary and Alex Johnson to help with leadership and development. We should be ok in this area. Same with our medical and fitness team.

Do we need to beef up our list management and recruiting team?

Onfield, do we need to beef up our coaching department or make any changes?

Daniel Pratt from the outside looking in did a bloody good job with our defence.

Our forwards had a lot of looks at goal, but at times it looked like we had no real structure or strategy. Does this put Spangher under pressure?

The midfield group let us down when we needed them the most. Does this put Lade under pressure?

[BornInDroopSt'54]

One thing about Bevo is he's not a bad coach but clearly not great for us since '16.
But we need someone great, deserving of our team.
One more before I die please.

[GVGjr]

Hopefully we can retain most/all of the team and build from there.

Daniel Duvnjak-Zaknich and Des O'Sullivan head up the high performance and strength and conditioning teams and that works well.
Stuart Edge with the VFL and he's one of the hardest workers
The development coaching team looks to be a good one, Maddocks, Geary and A.Johnson
I've raised some questions on why our forward line isn't functioning as well as it should but Lade, Spangher and Pratt area good support to Bevo and Egan. Perhaps we need a bit more specialist coaches.

I'm not sure how many recruiters we have spread around the country but they could probably do with some help.

I'm not expecting many changes to the footy department unless we find something for Bob Murphy.

[bornadog]

Okay, so it is highly likely Beveridge will be senior coach in 2025.
?

The changes now should be on field. Cleary the bottom 6 in the best 22 are still not up to scratch. We don't have the depth we thought as evidenced in the elimination final. I have said this all year and we did have some improvement. Hopefully the younger players take the next step.

[PR0408]

The changes now should be on field. Cleary the bottom 6 in the best 22 are still not up to scratch. We don't have the depth we thought as evidenced in the elimination final. I have said this all year and we did have some improvement. Hopefully the younger players take the next step.
We had the best performed VFL team from any AFL club. Also lost players from that final
Team due to qualification rules.
Personally I believe our team balance in the AFL isn?t right. To many tall fwds. The game has changed. High speed up and back. Our key fwds don?t cover the ground and help our smalls. Marra and Darcy can?t be in same team in my opinion.

[1eyedog]

After Friday night, I am completely on the fence on Bevo long-term. The pros and cons have been articulated and there's clear merit on both sides. At 14-9 before Friday night and with the methods/tactics deployed by the club under Bevo and the revamped MC this season, we felt more trustworthy and much less reliant on Bont brilliance to drag us over the line. We developed a turnover game to compliment our traditional stoppage/territory game, we had role players performing genuinely important roles, we comprehensively beat top 4 teams throughout the last 4 months, our percentage and scoring/defending profile indicated we had a rock-solid foundation that would hold us in good stead this finals series. Honestly, 2024 has felt different all year (until Friday night) to 2022-23, which were amongst the most frustrating and untrustworthy we've had in any season. But here we are essentially in the same place as 2022-23, and with a finals performance that was ruthlessly exposed as sub-par both in the box and out on the ground. Bevo has loyalty to his players that is both his greatest strength and weakness. The ruck situation has been discussed ad nauseum and it has obviously hurt us so bad for so long in big games - Bevo's loyalty here has paid a big price. So has the lack of defensive work in midfield/inability to curb opposition run-ons. The players can't have an out here - it is shared accountability.

Bevo clearly can coach and motivate a playing group better than most. Can he tactically adjust and adapt mid career, like Chris Scott and Longmire have successfully been able to? Would it change people's opinion if say Hawthorn did a Richmond 2017 and smashed the next 3 opponents en route to a flag with an 18-4 record after Round 5? That would make us just another team below the level of the dominant premier.

We have to be ruthless like we've never been before this off-season. This competition stops for nobody.

The poisoned chalice that is 2016!

If 2016 didn't exist would.Bevo still be coach?

He feels like an F1 Grand Prix winner from the 1990s who has just stolen a Ferrari and taken it for a spin to me.

Kinda seems to know what he's doing but still driving pretty shit.

[josie]

We had the best performed VFL team from any AFL club. Also lost players from that final
Team due to qualification rules.
Personally I believe our team balance in the AFL isn?t right. To many tall fwds. The game has changed. High speed up and back. Our key fwds don?t cover the ground and help our smalls. Marra and Darcy can?t be in same team in my opinion.

And we’re desperate for a cunning small crumbing forward

[SonofScray]

Bob is another Bevo cult member, nothing for him in this footy department.

[bulldogtragic]

Bob is another Bevo cult member, nothing for him in this footy department.

What has he done at Freo that all the Vic clubs are chasing him and we win his services. Haven’t heard about a frenzy to get him because he was outstanding at Freo. You could argue he was relegated in responsibility in his time there.

Collingwood won the services of Matty Boyd after it was known he’d come back to Vic.

How about the best person gets the job and not an ex player.