Sharp Axes

[jeemak]

But it is Bevo's fault

It's a bit of a circular argument, and I genuinely understand why people are frustrated with the list, the issues in game, week to week or whatever.

Our failings or otherwise are never just down to one thing or area within the club.

[JanLorMill]

But it is Bevo's fault
Yes. It’s his team

[bornadog]

Yes. It’s his team
The first thing each week supporters say when we lose is sack Bevo. It is tiresome.

How about some genuine solutions for the remainder of the year?

[JanLorMill]

The first thing each week supporters say when we lose is sack Bevo. It is tiresome.

How about some genuine solutions for the remainder of the year?
Bevo got heaps of praise when we were winning too. Not to question his coaching when we are losing is just ignorance.
Solutions? Not sure what more we can do from the stands? It’s not like we stop barracking for the club because we may think the coach is getting it wrong.

[bornadog]

Bevo got heaps of praise when we were winning too. Not to question his coaching when we are losing is just ignorance.
Solutions? Not sure what more we can do from the stands? It’s not like we don’t stop barracking for the club because we may think the coach is getting it wrong.

Question tactics, game plans, etc no problems, suggest, discuss moves that would be great, but just plain sack the coach - it won't be happening

[JanLorMill]

Question tactics, game plans, etc no problems, suggest, discuss moves that would be great, but just plain sack the coach - it won't be happening
I think people are questioning tactics game plans, etc all decided by the coach.
Don’t worry too much, it’s hard to sack someone we just gave another 2 years.

[bornadog]

I think people are questioning tactics game plans, etc all decided by the coach.
Don’t worry too much, it’s hard to sack someone we just gave another 2 years.

Did you listen to KWW yesterday on why his contract was extended?

[JanLorMill]

Did you listen to KWW yesterday on why his contract was extended?
No but of course she is going to justify the decision.

[bornadog]

No but of course she is going to justify the decision.

The club didn't want to be distracted the whole season on whether Bevo leaves next year. With both Richmond and GC looking for a coach then this was spot on. Just imagine the MSM every week talking about whether Bevo leaves.

[DOG GOD]

Not sure a lot of VFL teams are running around with the likes of Richards, Dale and JJ. You could make that argument for the non-Jones Key defenders and maybe Dureya now he's bit old.
Yes that’s what I was referring to. The KPD

[GVGjr]

The first thing each week supporters say when we lose is sack Bevo. It is tiresome.

How about some genuine solutions for the remainder of the year?

I hear you. I'm a bit the same with the claims that 'supporters are overrating the list'.
Basically the same list that got us into the 2021 GF less Dunks and Hunter.

Bevo is only a small part of the problem.

[anfo27]

The continuity with our defence has been diabolical this year. So while we probably have good enough players to compete if they're all together, lose one, two or three of them and it gets really tough.

I get this & it is a valid excuse but if our defensive woes were only this year then we would all be pointing to this. Its been an issue for a long time though & when we started the year with a healthy back 6 the results were a horror show.

What i struggle with is our defensive tactics seem to be like dropping English back in the Scotty Wynd role or move the ball forward more conservatively so we don't get destroyed on the break. Why wouldn't we be hell bent on trying to develop all our players to be better one on one defenders? I just don't understand how we can be so terrible at defending!

[jeemak]

I hear you. I'm a bit the same with the claims that 'supporters are overrating the list'.
Basically the same list that got us into the 2021 GF less Dunks and Hunter.

Bevo is only a small part of the problem.

I think there's more to it than just losing Dunkley and Hunter. For instance there's been a big issue with the deterioration of some of the core elements of our defence (let's say Keath and Duryea) plus the loss of Wood who wasn't great in 2021 but at the same time wasn't bad, and while other lists have improved for different reasons ours has stagnated for different reasons.

Should we have been more aggressive than we were in attempting to address the deterioration? Possibly, but we did bring in Jones and O'Brien and they haven't worked out for different reasons.

When it's all said and done though the list has stagnated for different reasons, and if you're not moving forward you're going backwards in this game. Comparing today to two years ago in footy these days is problematic.

[jeemak]

I get this & it is a valid excuse but if our defensive woes were only this year then we would all be pointing to this. Its been an issue for a long time though & when we started the year with a healthy back 6 the results were a horror show.

What i struggle with is our defensive tactics seem to be like dropping English back in the Scotty Wynd role or move the ball forward more conservatively so we don't get destroyed on the break. Why wouldn't we be hell bent on trying to develop all our players to be better one on one defenders? I just don't understand how we can be so terrible at defending!

I think the start of the year was a tactical/ strategic horror show and from all reports the coaching team acknowledged it. We played some good footy and were hard to score against whilst relatively fit afterwards.

Personnel aside, a lot of our defensive woes come from the front half though. There was a really telling stat Angelo P. or maybe GG or someone else I'll have to apologise to in lieu of not naming them posted, about our inability to hold the ball in the forward line after entries on Saturday. GWS were good but we didn't do anything to hold the footy in and the ball just flung out. We couldn't get territory for any period of time and to me that's down to effort as well as set up.

[anfo27]

I think the start of the year was a tactical/ strategic horror show and from all reports the coaching team acknowledged it. We played some good footy and were hard to score against whilst relatively fit afterwards.

Personnel aside, a lot of our defensive woes come from the front half though. There was a really telling stat Angelo P. or maybe GG or someone else I'll have to apologise to in lieu of not naming them posted, about our inability to hold the ball in the forward line after entries on Saturday. GWS were good but we didn't do anything to hold the footy in and the ball just flung out. We couldn't get territory for any period of time and to me that's down to effort as well as set up.

Effort is a non negotiable. Why is it that players would compromise effort? I think some players don't believe in the system/tactics the coaches have asked from them.
The comment I think was from Mantis. Clearly we don't have a balanced side. My issue isn't restricted to the defenders but all players who have to defend better with their direct opponent & as a defensive unit.

[GVGjr]

I think there's more to it than just losing Dunkley and Hunter. For instance there's been a big issue with the deterioration of some of the core elements of our defence (let's say Keath and Duryea) plus the loss of Wood who wasn't great in 2021 but at the same time wasn't bad, and while other lists have improved for different reasons ours has stagnated for different reasons.

Should we have been more aggressive than we were in attempting to address the deterioration? Possibly, but we did bring in Jones and O'Brien and they haven't worked out for different reasons.

When it's all said and done though the list has stagnated for different reasons, and if you're not moving forward you're going backwards in this game. Comparing today to two years ago in footy these days is problematic.

I agree with what you are saying but the "supporters are overrating the list" theme was being mentioned last year as well which was straight after the GF performance.

I definitely agree that in this competition if clubs aren't moving forward they're effectively moving backwards which is why I was so vocal that we didn't recruit a replacement form Bruce for the 2022 season. We had just lost a player that almost kicked 50 goals in the season and for whatever reason we weren't being mentioned as being in the mix for any decent replacements.

[SonofScray]

The club didn't want to be distracted the whole season on whether Bevo leaves next year. With both Richmond and GC looking for a coach then this was spot on. Just imagine the MSM every week talking about whether Bevo leaves.

That was the correct logic, so long as they were prepared to pull the pin this year if needed.

[Bulldog4life]

Even with Jones I don?t rate our backline. Yes HE is good but that?s it. Others are VFL.
Put it this way, I?d rather Collingwoods backline over ours every day of the week.
I know you won't want to hear this but stat's don't lie as Danjul likes to say. We have the 6th best defence in the league according to points kicked against us on the ladder so you have to rerate it I would respectfully say DG.

[bornadog]

Effort is a non negotiable. Why is it that players would compromise effort? I think some players don't believe in the system/tactics the coaches have asked from them.
The comment I think was from Mantis. Clearly we don't have a balanced side. My issue isn't restricted to the defenders but all players who have to defend better with their direct opponent & as a defensive unit.

I mentioned in another thread the effort of Treloar (or non effort) when he refused to chase a player and the ball travelled from our forward line to theirs for a goal. At least chase but he just stood there.

[Eastdog]

And supporters too Sedat.:) I for one am looking forward to the next 4 weeks with relish starting this Friday night against the Tigers. We are still in it. I will only give up once we are not. ;)

I have similar attitude to you as well B4L. As bad as that loss on Saturday was as I thought we should have won we still are in it and now need to re-group and go again starting on Friday night against the Tigers. We are at Marvel as well so that give us a much better chance of a win and we beat them earlier in the year at the G in the rain.

Our run doesn't seem crazy with the Hawks and Eagles to come and you never know we may be a chance against the Cats as well who are not at their best this season.

[anfo27]

I mentioned in another thread the effort of Treloar (or non effort) when he refused to chase a player and the ball travelled from our forward line to theirs for a goal. At least chase but he just stood there.

What do you think? Fitness of the group as a whole? Combination of things?

[bornadog]

What do you think? Fitness of the group as a whole? Combination of things?

Not sure why he did that, but I think it is common for Treloar.

[JanLorMill]

The club didn't want to be distracted the whole season on whether Bevo leaves next year. With both Richmond and GC looking for a coach then this was spot on. Just imagine the MSM every week talking about whether Bevo leaves.
Port are second with a coach out of contract at the end of the year. We are now distracted anyway with the sub par performances this season.

[azabob]

Comparing today to two years ago in footy these days is problematic.

Why are we still fundamentally going with the same game plan?

[Bulldog Joe]

Why are we still fundamentally going with the same game plan?

Bevo has always stuck with his game plan and consistently refuses to recognise the defensive flaws of his flood your own forward line

[GVGjr]

I guess the hard midfield tag is just not something that coaches use too often but Ward really did a good job on Bont and curbed his influence after a dominating first quarter. I did notice Treloar putting some effort in on Kelly around stoppages so there would be some variations with how we approach it.

[jeemak]

Why are we still fundamentally going with the same game plan?


Bevo has always stuck with his game plan and consistently refuses to recognise the defensive flaws of his flood your own forward line

The game plan in his mind would probably protect our defenders more than it exposes them. Take the ball around the wings, kick near side, lock it in. It's just when we compress too high that we get into trouble.

We don't always compress too high, but in cases where our structure is thrown into disarray like it was Saturday we'd be more prone to doing it.

[Bullies]

Not sure why he did that, but I think it is common for Treloar. I think if Treloar had his way he wouldn't be at the club. He didn't ask to go there and loved Collingwood. With his buddy Dunks no longer even more so and he is there because it is his job. He to me this year although he has played some good football just doesn't seem to be invested in the club.

[meenies]

I think some players don't believe in the system/tactics the coaches have asked from them.


To me the combination of things are:
1. the team have lost confidence in the game plan. As witnessed by them continually not following it.
2. Bevo has lost the players or he has lost the delivery of the messaging. I have seen this in a few of the more recent "Bevo Briefings". I can understand him being flat post game but I watch his and the players body language and I don't think he has them anymore.
3. If the coaches believe we have the right cattle, see 1 and 2 above. If the coaches don't believe we have the cattle (like many posters here) then why do they insist on a game plan that it not compatible to the players strengths & abilities & limitations.

[GVGjr]

I think if Treloar had his way he wouldn't be at the club. He didn't ask to go there and loved Collingwood. With his buddy Dunks no longer even more so and he is there because it is his job. He to me this year although he has played some good football just doesn't seem to be invested in the club.

I really think you are doing Treloar a disservice here. Attending so many training sessions I've seen how both professional and invested he is with us.

[meenies]

I guess the hard midfield tag is just not something that coaches use too often but Ward really did a good job on Bont and curbed his influence after a dominating first quarter. I did notice Treloar putting some effort in on Kelly around stoppages so there would be some variations with how we approach it.

Should we have reinvented McComb as a tagger?

[GVGjr]

Should we have reinvented McComb as a tagger?

It might have been worth trying but I can't see us being prepared to use this option much.

This weekend Hewett curbed Nick Daicos and Drew did for 3 quarters the week before.
Ward on Bont. The Saints threw a player back to limit Sicily and I think there were a few others as well.

So it can work without giving too much up.

[angelopetraglia]

Caro now lining up on Bevo (again) https://twitter.com/9NewsMelb/status/1685936891130970113?s=20

[Go_Dogs]

I hear you. I'm a bit the same with the claims that 'supporters are overrating the list'.
Basically the same list that got us into the 2021 GF less Dunks and Hunter.

Bevo is only a small part of the problem.

The ?same list? comment is an interesting one.

Setting aside that Dunks and Hunter had both been club champions, I?m not sure basically the same list is a good thing as the quality and output of a list is dynamic and many of the players who were critical to getting us to that point haven?t quite replicated those performances since. We?ve had growth in other areas and recruited to top up a few critical positions too, however the game moves quickly and based on performances this year, I think the club has overrated our list. We thought it was top 4 material, but it may only just be top 8 material and certainly is between 6-12 best lists on performance this season.

Again, it can and will change quickly as a list is only as good as the last season plus/minus the changes we make.



Back on the thread topic, I?m still not convinced that we find a better coach who has the special sauce to turn our existing list around. Maybe we can, maybe we can?t - who knows. Bevo has a few more weeks left to show us what he and the coaching team can do. Like I?ve said in here previously, I?m sure we are aware of what?s out there and will be having those discussions as every club would regardless of coaching status / contractual positions.

I don?t think we make a change,but who knows. I?m nowhere near close enough to the day to day, the level of engagement the players have and commitment to the strategy and game plan they?re being asked to execute.

[bulldogtragic]

Caro now lining up on Bevo (again) https://twitter.com/9NewsMelb/status/1685936891130970113?s=20

All she said was she thought Bevo was outcoached on the weekend.

Lined up? Really? Many on here said the same thing. I feel dirty for semi defending Caro.

[Bullies]

All she said was she thought Bevo was outcoached on the weekend.

Lined up? Really? Many on here said the same thing. I feel dirty for semi defending Caro. He was definitely out coached. She said it as it is. Good for her as she says what she what she feels rather than the toe the standard ex player line.

[angelopetraglia]

All she said was she thought Bevo was outcoached on the weekend.

Lined up? Really? Many on here said the same thing. I feel dirty for semi defending Caro.

She has a vendetta against him. Listen to the clip again. She also spoke about players leaving etc.

[bulldogtragic]

He was definitely out coached.

Yep. I don’t like Caro as a journalist, but that grab wasn’t anything unfair. When I saw she apparently lined him up I was expecting some real BS. Maybe that’s for the episode later.

[angelopetraglia]

Yep. I don’t like Caro as a journalist, but that grab wasn’t anything unfair. When I saw she apparently lined him up I was expecting some real BS. Maybe that’s for the episode later.

Valid point. I’m possibly already judging what she is going to say. But it will be coming. I don’t watch the show, but will see the clip on Twitter I’m sure.

[bulldogtragic]

Valid point. I’m possibly already judging what she is going to say. But it will be coming. I don’t watch the show, but will see the clip on Twitter I’m sure.

I haven’t watched it in many years. It’s pretty much everything wrong with the footy media industry. Steel yourself, if/when we miss finals, the media blowtorch on Bevo will be cranked up to 11. It will not be fun.

[JanLorMill]

Caro now lining up on Bevo (again) https://twitter.com/9NewsMelb/status/1685936891130970113?s=20
On field stuff Caro knows nothing though Right about being out coached Saturday.

[jeemak]

Trying to figure out what out-coached means.

Was Bevo out-coaching Kingsley in the first half when both teams were not suffering from structural injuries that changed the entire complexion of the game? Or was that just the players doing what players do?

[JanLorMill]

Trying to figure out what out-coached means.

Was Bevo out-coaching Kingsley in the first half when both teams were not suffering from structural injuries that changed the entire complexion of the game? Or was that just the players doing what players do?
Pre game great. During game out coached.
Structural injuries? We lost 2 average tall defenders, who were competing against some average tall forwards. We should have been able to cover that when you are 6 goals up on your home deck. That’s out coached.

[Hotdog60]

On Treloar I think he maybe a bit gun shy due to his injury history and unless he has the ball in hand he won't push over the limit.
I think an indication on this was in the game were he thought he had pinged another hammy and throwing his mouth guard while going to the rooms only to play out the rest of the match.
Mentally I think he won't push the limits defensively which looks bad at times.
It makes it hard to know where to put him on the field because if the ball gets past him you can bet he won't be able to stop it.
Compared to Bont, Libba and Daniel who will bust a gut but just aren't quick enough. Smith tends to pick and choose who has shown he has acceleration but he decides when he wants to use it.
We need to find a kid who can breach the deficiencies of the above to complement what we have.

[1eyedog]

On Treloar I think he maybe a bit gun shy due to his injury history and unless he has the ball in hand he won't push over the limit.
I think an indication on this was in the game were he thought he had pinged another hammy and throwing his mouth guard while going to the rooms only to play out the rest of the match.
Mentally I think he won't push the limits defensively which looks bad at times.
It makes it hard to know where to put him on the field because if the ball gets past him you can bet he won't be able to stop it.
Compared to Bont, Libba and Daniel who will bust a gut but just aren't quick enough. Smith tends to pick and choose who has shown he has acceleration but he decides when he wants to use it.
We need to find a kid who can breach the deficiencies of the above to complement what we have.

34 2 goals and 7 tackles suggests otherwise.

[1eyedog]

Not sure why he did that, but I think it is common for Treloar.

He was probably cooked from just about being best on ground. Seriously, what more does this guy need to do he's been fantastic for us. I don't particularly care if he's invested in the fabric of the club or not he is a consummate professional and has been one of our better players all year.

If he doesn't want to be here well that's certainly not translating out on the field.

[GVGjr]

He was probably cooked from just about being best on ground. Seriously, what more does this guy need to do he's been fantastic for us. I don't particularly care if he's invested in the fabric of the club or not he is a consummate professional and has been one of our better players all year.

If he doesn't want to be here well that's certainly not translating out on the field.

I'm a bit perplexed with why Treloar isn't regarded higher from a number of our supporters but there appears to be a high level of doubt about his dedication to the club and I don't see any evidence of that. I've previously wondered if it's his relationship with Dunkley that counts against him in the eyes of some of the supporters. From what I've seen he has fitted in well, very professional and is one of the hardest workers on the training track and on top of that he's had a pretty good season.

[Bullies]

Pre game great. During game out coached.
Structural injuries? We lost 2 average tall defenders, who were competing against some average tall forwards. We should have been able to cover that when you are 6 goals up on your home deck. That?s out coached.We also still had 3 on the bench so it wasn't like years ago where you were left with 1 on the bench if 2 went down. I still can't get how you can have everyone push up the ground when the opposition are kicking with the wind. Did we not learn from the Sydney game where all our backs pushed up in the last and Papley got loose. Same happened with Greene. That is up to the coaches in the box to see that we are pressing to high if not Bevo then the defensive coach.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm a bit perplexed with why Treloar isn't regarded higher from a number of our supporters but there appears to be a high level of doubt about his dedication to the club and I don't see any evidence of that. I've previously wondered if it's his relationship with Dunkley that counts against him in the eyes of some of the supporters. From what I've seen he has fitted in well, very professional and is one of the hardest workers on the training track and on top of that he's had a pretty good season.

I don’t have the energy to defend every player, every time. But suffice to I say I’ve been happy with what he has brought to the table in his time with us. Not sure what else he needs to do. But to each their own.

[azabob]

We also still had 3 on the bench so it wasn't like years ago where you were left with 1 on the bench if 2 went down. I still get how you can have everyone push up the ground when the opposition are kicking with the wind. Did we not learn from the Sydney game where all our backs pushed up in the last and Papley got loose. Same happened with Greene. That is up to the coaches in the box to see that we are pressing to high if not Bevo then the defensive coach.

I'm no where near savvy enough to know if we were out coached or not.

One would assume that the Papley scenario was a major learning out of the Sydney game and highlighted in the review. Assuming that is the case one could assume that the players "forgot" those learnings in the heat of the battle.

The other annoying thing is club runners are extremely limited on how often they can go on the field so the coaches may not have had an opportunity to re-enforce the message.

Either way as I said earlier we should have steadied at 3 quarter time and won the game by 2-3 goals. We just could not execute in our forward 50 when we had opportunities.

[GVGjr]

We also still had 3 on the bench so it wasn't like years ago where you were left with 1 on the bench if 2 went down. I still get how you can have everyone push up the ground when the opposition are kicking with the wind. Did we not learn from the Sydney game where all our backs pushed up in the last and Papley got loose. Same happened with Greene. That is up to the coaches in the box to see that we are pressing to high if not Bevo then the defensive coach.

The interchange being capped protects a club that loses players early in a game so they're not quite as handicapped by being a player or two down. The other club might have a full bench but they still have as many changes available.

[Grantysghost]

I'm a bit perplexed with why Treloar isn't regarded higher from a number of our supporters but there appears to be a high level of doubt about his dedication to the club and I don't see any evidence of that. I've previously wondered if it's his relationship with Dunkley that counts against him in the eyes of some of the supporters. From what I've seen he has fitted in well, very professional and is one of the hardest workers on the training track and on top of that he's had a pretty good season.

I took a while to warm to him.

I don't know why.

Maybe due to the way he left the Pies (not his fault) it kind of felt like he was forced to come to us, then the bromance thing was weird so that was probably enough.
Also I wasn't really keen to get him at the time.

Now. I love him, he's fully engaged, total pro as you say and playing some amazing footy in his proper position.
I still don't think we are utilising his main strength (run and carry) however I'm really happy he's with us.

[GVGjr]

I took a while to warm to him.

I don't know why.

Maybe due to the way he left the Pies (not his fault) it kind of felt like he was forced to come to us, then the bromance thing was weird so that was probably enough.
Also I wasn't really keen to get him at the time.

Now. I love him, he's fully engaged, total pro as you say and playing some amazing footy in his proper position.
I still don't think we are utilising his main strength (run and carry) however I'm really happy he's with us.

You've probably nailed the reasons why some don't appreciate him. I think one other thing that factors in with some of our supporters is the money that he is on but in fairness to him he back ended his contract at the request of Collingwood thinking that would help them out. Ultimately that show of faith probably worked against him.

Like Grundy he could have pointed to his contract and said it's not my issue to Collingwood but he read the play and explored his options. If your employer isn't keen on you it's time to make the move and then make the most of it and I think he's done that very well. I was really disappointed in the way Buckley conveyed the reasons for them pushing him out and said that they believed his wife and child being away from him for 3 months of the year would be a problem for him and effect his football and from what Ive seen that was never a valid reason.

[D Mitchell]

On field stuff Caro knows nothing though Right about being out coached Saturday.

Which she freely acknowledges. Her niche is issues, what others say about issues and policy. There's room for that. There are enough semi articulate former players telling us what we can already see on the screen.

[Sedat]

Which she freely acknowledges. Her niche is issues, what others say about issues and policy. There's room for that. There are enough semi articulate former players telling us what we can already see on the screen.
Her niche is muck-raking. She offers nothing to the sport or to actual journalism.

All you need to know about Caro and her 'principles' is when she hung the partners of Tim Membrey and Seb Ross out to dry because they had the nerve to want their partners by their side at the birth of their children when they were stuck in the Qld bubble during COVID. She is a low-rent, reprehensible person in a low-rent, reprehensible industry. Nothing she says is worth hearing.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Her niche is muck-raking. She offers nothing to the sport or to actual journalism.

All you need to know about Caro and her 'principles' is when she hung the partners of Tim Membrey and Seb Ross out to dry because they had the nerve to want their partners by their side at the birth of their children when they were stuck in the Qld bubble during COVID. She is a low-rent, reprehensible person in a low-rent, reprehensible industry. Nothing she says is worth hearing.

Just imagine if she was also the mayor of Geelong.

[bornadog]

He was probably cooked from just about being best on ground. Seriously, what more does this guy need to do he's been fantastic for us. I don't particularly care if he's invested in the fabric of the club or not he is a consummate professional and has been one of our better players all year.

If he doesn't want to be here well that's certainly not translating out on the field.

Don't get me wrong, he is one of my favourite players, a class act. I just picked a moment that I wasn't happy with - he is not immune to criticism.

[jeemak]

Pre game great. During game out coached.
Structural injuries? We lost 2 average tall defenders, who were competing against some average tall forwards. We should have been able to cover that when you are 6 goals up on your home deck. That’s out coached.

So there's no correlation between the injuries and the coaching performance?

Fair enough, not sure I see it that way. You remove 2 x key defenders who spend 90% plus time on ground and replace them with players that usually fit into upfield rotations and you're going to lose run due to fatigue.

Defensive structures are usually better when players who usually play a role in them play a role in them. Losing key position players out of a structure is always difficult to deal with.

[JanLorMill]

So there's no correlation between the injuries and the coaching performance?

Fair enough, not sure I see it that way. You remove 2 x key defenders who spend 90% plus time on ground and replace them with players that usually fit into upfield rotations and you're going to lose run due to fatigue.

Defensive structures are usually better when players who usually play a role in them play a role in them. Losing key position players out of a structure is always difficult to deal with.
Of course there is but one coach made the right moves eg tag bont and ours didn?t adjust or make the right moves eg Lobb to chb.
We had enough talls to adjust for the loss of 2 tall defenders. 6 goals up with a qtr and bit to go. Should have shut out the game. This can?t take Naughton out of forward line is bull. Taylor won his share before and after. Just stop them kicking 6 more than us.

[bornadog]

Of course there is but one coach made the right moves eg tag bont and ours didn’t adjust or make the right moves eg Lobb to chb

You really think Lobb to backline instead of Naughton made the difference? I don't think so.

[D Mitchell]

Her niche is muck-raking. She offers nothing to the sport or to actual journalism.

All you need to know about Caro and her 'principles' is when she hung the partners of Tim Membrey and Seb Ross out to dry because they had the nerve to want their partners by their side at the birth of their children when they were stuck in the Qld bubble during COVID. She is a low-rent, reprehensible person in a low-rent, reprehensible industry. Nothing she says is worth hearing.

Alright, apart from that, she has her niche. I gave up watching and reading footy commentary during Covid and haven't resumed interest. Besides, the feminists are watching, watching, watching

[1eyedog]

Don't get me wrong, he is one of my favourite players, a class act. I just picked a moment that I wasn't happy with - he is not immune to criticism.

Yep no one is beyond critisism I get that.

[Danjul]

You really think Lobb to backline instead of Naughton made the difference? I don't think so.
Bruce had 3 disposals in half a game up to the time he was injured.

Yes, his loss disrupted the team etc and I feel bad for him.

But the reason we lost was the forward line could kick only 1 goal in the last quarter with the wind advantage.

The structural changes had to be?
?get Naughton and Weightman into the game
?.get Bont back into the game.

I thought JUH looked unwell so not sure there.

The fundamental problem was a non functioning forward line. They were contributing next to nothing on the scoreboard.

Nothing to do with Bruce. Referring to him is simply a distraction.

[bornadog]

Bruce had 3 disposals in half a game up to the time he was injured.

Yes, his loss disrupted the team etc and I feel bad for him.

But the reason we lost was the forward line could kick only 1 goal in the last quarter with the wind advantage.

The structural changes had to be?
?get Naughton and Weightman into the game
?.get Bont back into the game.

I thought JUH looked unwell so not sure there.

The fundamental problem was a non functioning forward line. They were contributing next to nothing on the scoreboard.

Nothing to do with Bruce. Referring to him is simply a distraction.

Agree with all that but at least Bruce and Keath were occupying space so Greene couldn't find space himself in the first half. This allowed Dale to run off half back, whereas in the second half he was forced to defend more.

[Bulldog4life]

Agree with all that but at least Bruce and Keath were occupying space so Greene couldn't find space himself in the first half. This allowed Dale to run off half back, whereas in the second half he was forced to defend more.

Yep losing 2 key defenders during a game will put you behind the 8 ball big time. No matter if it is West Coast or Collingwood.

[Hotdog60]

34 2 goals and 7 tackles suggests otherwise.

I maybe I'm being too critical and I only see what I can see on the square box. But over the course its the flapping of arms as someone just runs past him to me doesn't look good. He did have a very good game on the weekend and when his on he is very good but still think if a player get past him that's as far as it goes. I don't dislike him but I would like a little bit more when he has to chase.

[Mantis]

Bruce had 3 disposals in half a game up to the time he was injured.

Yes, his loss disrupted the team etc and I feel bad for him.

But the reason we lost was the forward line could kick only 1 goal in the last quarter with the wind advantage.

The structural changes had to be?
?get Naughton and Weightman into the game
?.get Bont back into the game.

I thought JUH looked unwell so not sure there.

The fundamental problem was a non functioning forward line. They were contributing next to nothing on the scoreboard.

Nothing to do with Bruce. Referring to him is simply a distraction.

We don’t really have a traditional forward line which doesn’t help matters.

We pretty much only have 4 forwards in Naughton, Marra, Lobb and Weightman. The other spots are filled by mids (Smith and Macrae) and players we are trying to fit in ( West & VDM).

When through necessity we move one to defence, two are largely ineffective (Marra and Cody) and the other has his hands full with the best key defender in the game (Naughton) it makes it difficult to score… and we need to generate our scores from elsewhere, which we couldn’t do either.

[JanLorMill]

You really think Lobb to backline instead of Naughton made the difference? I don't think so.
Possibly. Not sure Lobb has ever played CHB in his career, Naughton did it a month ago. We lost by a goal btw
It wasn't the only move Bevo could have tried anyway

[mjp]

Pre game great. During game out coached.
Structural injuries? We lost 2 average tall defenders, who were competing against some average tall forwards. We should have been able to cover that when you are 6 goals up on your home deck. That?s out coached.

I'm happy enough to debate this one and I don't really have an opinion.

What did Kingsley do to turn things around?

1/. Ward ==> Bont @ Q-time. Successful! Big Tick.
- BUT made pretty much zero difference to contested ball and stoppage numbers...so would appreciate a heads up on what DID happen.
2/. ???

What did Bevo do??

1/. Lobb back to replace the injured Bruce/Keath.
2/. ???

To me, neither coach really moved the magnets around much at all...

I get the 'Bevo should have been more pro-active argument' - I really do. But when you're 2-goals up at 3/4 time and are kicking with the wind - AND have stoppage ascendency...are you SURE you would change it?

I totally get the 'move Bont forward' arguments and the 'Naughton not Lobb' arguments...but I just don't get that this one was won in the coaches box on the day...

[The bulldog tragician]

I’d just like to chime in to contest the wind advantage idea which keeps being repeated. As someone there I thought it dropped notably by the end of the day ( last qtr). It was also a strong cross- ground breeze rather than the old fashioned Barkly St howler. Feel it’s been overplayed as a huge advantage to us?

I might be wrong as I don’t pretend to be au fait with tactics, but Lobb into backline isn’t just “ tall body replaces equally tall body.” I thought he looked all at sea and the usual switches our defence do to cover for each other and their chemistry in working that out fell apart which was why there were suddenly Toby- Greene - off - the - chain moments. I don’t know if Naughton would have been better at that but I thought Lobb was noticeably horrible, again had a very good position to see the infamous third qtr. In our last Ballarat game, sitting in the same spot, I had a really good view of how Jones was working in coming off his man to influence contests. He did it really well and the difference with someone who doesn’t play defence was noticeable.

I’m not sure about Plans a and b, I thought it was more plan A depends on the right personnel, and they weren’t there, and putting a different cog in the wheel isn’t that simple. I also noticed how fatigued our guys looked in trying for that ‘one more goal’ and, again, question if it’s the Plan that’s wrong or it’s just being unable to be executed because of fitness. I don’t think we run out games that well actually

[bornadog]

I’d just like to chime in to contest the wind advantage idea which keeps being repeated. As someone there I thought it dropped notably by the end of the day ( last qtr). It was also a strong cross- ground breeze rather than the old fashioned Barkly St howler. Feel it’s been overplayed as a huge advantage to us?

I might be wrong as I don’t pretend to be au fait with tactics, but Lobb into backline isn’t just “ tall body replaces equally tall body.” I thought he looked all at sea and the usual switches our defence do to cover for each other and their chemistry in working that out fell apart which was why there were suddenly Toby- Greene - off - the - chain moments. I don’t know if Naughton would have been better at that but I thought Lobb was noticeably horrible, again had a very good position to see the infamous third qtr. In our last Ballarat game, sitting in the same spot, I had a really good view of how Jones was working in coming off his man to influence contests. He did it really well and the difference with someone who doesn’t play defence was noticeable.

I’m not sure about Plans a and b, I thought it was more plan A depends on the right personnel, and they weren’t there, and putting a different cog in the wheel isn’t that simple. I also noticed how fatigued our guys looked in trying for that ‘one more goal’ and, again, question if it’s the Plan that’s wrong or it’s just being unable to be executed because of fitness. I don’t think we run out games that well actually

Two comments:

1. agree the wind did drop a bit in the last and didn't favour any team, that is why the outer wing was used so the teams can be more conservative when attacking.

2. The lack of fitness (seemingly) was due to being one man down in the rotations. Doesn't sound like much but when it is the guys that run alot (mids), then it will effect them.

[jeemak]

It's worse than being one man down because you're actually replacing two players who spend 90% or more TOG.

[FrediKanoute]

You really think Lobb to backline instead of Naughton made the difference? I don't think so.

I do. I think that if Lobb had been in the forward line we would have been able to rest English forward and I bet he would have clunked at least one mark. Also, Naughton behind the ball gives us an intercepting backman. Lobb was the wrong call.

[JanLorMill]

I'm happy enough to debate this one and I don't really have an opinion.

What did Kingsley do to turn things around?

1/. Ward ==> Bont @ Q-time. Successful! Big Tick.
- BUT made pretty much zero difference to contested ball and stoppage numbers...so would appreciate a heads up on what DID happen.
2/. ???

What did Bevo do??

1/. Lobb back to replace the injured Bruce/Keath.
2/. ???

To me, neither coach really moved the magnets around much at all...

I get the 'Bevo should have been more pro-active argument' - I really do. But when you're 2-goals up at 3/4 time and are kicking with the wind - AND have stoppage ascendency...are you SURE you would change it?

I totally get the 'move Bont forward' arguments and the 'Naughton not Lobb' arguments...but I just don't get that this one was won in the coaches box on the day...
I thought we lost basically because we lost the handle on Greene. He was well managed in the first half but something happened where he got out the back way too easily. Not sure it had much to do with losing 2 tall defenders. Excuse my lack of set up football knowledge. They started easily exiting the front of stoppages. They were rebounding well most the game.

[Danjul]

We don?t really have a traditional forward line which doesn?t help matters.

We pretty much only have 4 forwards in Naughton, Marra, Lobb and Weightman. The other spots are filled by mids (Smith and Macrae) and players we are trying to fit in ( West & VDM).

When through necessity we move one to defence, two are largely ineffective (Marra and Cody) and the other has his hands full with the best key defender in the game (Naughton) it makes it difficult to score? and we need to generate our scores from elsewhere, which we couldn?t do either.
True but.

Those forwards did not stop stop scoring, they simply did not start scoring. Something was seriously wrong on Saturday.

Except for 2 goals, all our goals came from elsewhere- mids and backline.

[Mantis]

True but.

Those forwards did not stop stop scoring, they simply did not start scoring. Something was seriously wrong on Saturday.

Except for 2 goals, all our goals came from elsewhere- mids and backline.

Why do you think they was the case?

Is it as simple as they were matched against good defenders who simply beat their opponents or was it a supply issue?

[Danjul]

Why do you think they was the case?

Is it as simple as they were matched against good defenders who simply beat their opponents or was it a supply issue?
I am sure that I read we had over 50 fi inside 50s for 10 goals, 8 of which were by midfielders and defenders.

certainly not a supply issue.

If the GWS defenders were so dominant we should have moved Naughton to a wing, Cleary (a reliable kick) forward and Poulter back. That breaks the mould and puts pressure on GWS to respond. Could they risk Naughton getting back into the game? He is very good at ground level. Do they move the match winning defender out and risk English getting back for a goal.

Not for the first time, we had a big lead and failed to defend it by 1 kick.

[Mantis]

I am sure that I read we had over 50 fi inside 50s for 10 goals, 8 of which were by midfielders and defenders.

certainly not a supply issue.

If the GWS defenders were so dominant we should have moved Naughton to a wing, Cleary (a reliable kick) forward and Poulter back. That breaks the mould and puts pressure on GWS to respond. Could they risk Naughton getting back into the game? He is very good at ground level. Do they move the match winning defender out and risk English getting back for a goal.

Not for the first time, we had a big lead and failed to defend it by 1 kick.

I’m open to ideas, but throwing the magnets around as suggested is akin to throwing darts at a dartboard whilst blindfolded.

How could Cleary in his 1st game for the year be effective in a role he’s never played in? Surely if you wanted to go down this path that Dale would be the option.

[ReLoad]

I really hope this comes back to bite me, but we seriously need a coaching change, and id go so far as to say it will have a near immediate impact. We need a new coach who is able to communicate and lead in a different way/style.

We're on a massive plateau with the obvious gains of younger players maturing completely offset with the older players dropping off.

Change needs to happen, Bevo will go down as our God who delivered us to the promised land, but its now at a point where we need to change to see us have another crack at the mountain.

Personally Id love to see us onboard a supreme tactician. (aka like we had with rocket) whether that's in the main capacity or as a senior assistant.

[Danjul]

I?m open to ideas, but throwing the magnets around as suggested is akin to throwing darts at a dartboard whilst blindfolded.

How could Cleary in his 1st game for the year be effective in a role he?s never played in? Surely if you wanted to go down this path that Dale would be the option.

Not at all. Dale was having a standout game. One of our best. You do not risk damaging the best parts of your team in order to activate a weak component. The emphasis is getting Naughton into play.

Cleary is mobile and good under pressure, and vastly more experienced than JOD who was brought from nowhere into the forward line. So it is not a new tactic He didn?t have to be effective but might have been able to get a couple of kicks (at goal).

We put Lobb somewhere he has never played before. And he did not have any relevant (mobility and ground ball) skills. I would expect Lobb to do worse on the backline than Cleary forward. And people here have commented that Lobb wasn?t looking too bad where he was.

I could be wrong but GWS wasn?t using forward height as one of their aces.

Poulter had more experience, has played on the back line and wasn?t doing a lot, his weakest game so far.

So the moves could have generated 1 extra goal.

[josie]

I really hope this comes back to bite me, but we seriously need a coaching change, and id go so far as to say it will have a near immediate impact. We need a new coach who is able to communicate and lead in a different way/style.

We're on a massive plateau with the obvious gains of younger players maturing completely offset with the older players dropping off.

Change needs to happen, Bevo will go down as our God who delivered us to the promised land, but its now at a point where we need to change to see us have another crack at the mountain.

Personally Id love to see us onboard a supreme tactician. (aka like we had with rocket) whether that's in the main capacity or as a senior assistant.

I’m torn - between exactly what you’ve said ReLoad, or a clean sweep of all coaching positions except Bevo including having a senior experienced advisor (I understand we didn’t replace the “coaching overseeing” role I believe Maple fulfilled, rather the club spilt some but not possibly all of his responsibilities across 3 people). The senior advisor role I’m envisaging is what Richmond and Melbourne and possibly other sides have/had in place. And if Bevo resists and does not want it then he might resign. Plus new fitness and conditioning people. I just cannot see Bevo turning this around next year and if he does turn it around this year (and/or next year if no changes to coaching set up) I’d be super happy to have egg on my face.

[bornadog]

I’m torn - between exactly what you’ve said ReLoad, or a clean sweep of all coaching positions except Bevo including having a senior experienced advisor (I understand we didn’t replace the “coaching overseeing” role I believe Maple fulfilled, rather the club spilt some but not possibly all of his responsibilities across 3 people). The senior advisor role I’m envisaging is what Richmond and Melbourne and possibly other sides have/had in place. And if Bevo resists and does not want it then he might resign. Plus new fitness and conditioning people. I just cannot see Bevo turning this around next year and if he does turn it around this year (and/or next year if no changes to coaching set up) I’d be super happy to have egg on my face.

Brendon Lade is pretty Senior and was touted as a senior coach for a few clubs but just missed out.

[Bulldog Joe]

I’m torn - between exactly what you’ve said ReLoad, or a clean sweep of all coaching positions except Bevo including having a senior experienced advisor (I understand we didn’t replace the “coaching overseeing” role I believe Maple fulfilled, rather the club spilt some but not possibly all of his responsibilities across 3 people). The senior advisor role I’m envisaging is what Richmond and Melbourne and possibly other sides have/had in place. And if Bevo resists and does not want it then he might resign. Plus new fitness and conditioning people. I just cannot see Bevo turning this around next year and if he does turn it around this year (and/or next year if no changes to coaching set up) I’d be super happy to have egg on my face.

I really don't see how changing all the assistants could help.

We have brought in a new experienced assistant this year (Lade) and we still have the same issues.

The change we need is head coach.

[josie]

Brendon Lade is pretty Senior and was touted as a senior coach for a few clubs but just missed out.

The senior advisor position I would like to see is someone who does not report directly to Bevo but does work closely with him. It’s someone who can look at how cohesive and effective all the coaches are, incl. VFL. Preferably someone who’s worked at a club who has won a GF recently with a sound reputation, possibly an ex senior coach. I’m not sure Bevo would accept this however I’m not sure we can keep trusting current set-up.

[GVGjr]

I’m torn - between exactly what you’ve said ReLoad, or a clean sweep of all coaching positions except Bevo including having a senior experienced advisor (I understand we didn’t replace the “coaching overseeing” role I believe Maple fulfilled, rather the club spilt some but not possibly all of his responsibilities across 3 people). The senior advisor role I’m envisaging is what Richmond and Melbourne and possibly other sides have/had in place. And if Bevo resists and does not want it then he might resign. Plus new fitness and conditioning people. I just cannot see Bevo turning this around next year and if he does turn it around this year (and/or next year if no changes to coaching set up) I’d be super happy to have egg on my face.

It will be interesting to see if there are any changes to the assistant coaches or the footy department set-up at the end of the season.
With speculation that Webb might move back to WA, and I hope he doesn't, and there was some talk that Smith wanted to return to more of a development role focus than being line coach and that he even might be pushed. There is also some talk that Lade has found the things a bit frustrating so there could be a couple of changes but maybe none at all.
Could we even make a call to King to return to us given Hardwick is likely heading to the GC?

There is a bit about the buck stops with Bevo and unless he's listening to the assistants and willing to implement some of their suggestions it's possibly a frustrating job.

Fixing the GM of Football position would be my priority.

[lemmon]

The senior advisor position I would like to see is someone who does not report directly to Bevo but does work closely with him. It?s someone who can look at how cohesive and effective all the coaches are, incl. VFL. Preferably someone who?s worked at a club who has won a GF recently with a sound reputation, possibly an ex senior coach. I?m not sure Bevo would accept this however I?m not sure we can keep trusting current set-up.

Is that the remit of a review rather than an adviser though? If someone like Justin Lepptisch did come in as a senior assistant/senior adviser and his feedback was that our coaching structure wasn't functional or aligned with how he's seen successful clubs operate...what happens after that? Is Bevo then moved on? Everything we know about Beveridge indicates that he won't change his ways.

Bevo's now into his ninth year as senior coach and is the best coach in our club's history. I think the reality of that means that while he's there, things will continue to run the way they've always been run under him and the catalyst for a change in coaching structure or process would be Bevo leaving.

My personal opinion is that if the players are still buying into his messaging then I'd rather stick with Beveridge. It's been a crap year, and I thought we were a flag contender, but it's also felt like we could've won 6 of the 9 games we've lost. We've seen a number of success stories after clubs stuck fat with a coach through some disappointing periods, I hold out hope we can do the same with Luke.

[bulldogtragic]

It will be interesting to see if there are any changes to the assistant coaches or the footy department set-up at the end of the season.
With speculation that Webb might move back to WA, and I hope he doesn't, and there was some talk that Smith wanted to return to more of a development role focus than being line coach and that he even might be pushed. There is also some talk that Lade has found the things a bit frustrating so there could be a couple of changes but maybe none at all.
Could we even make a call to King to return to us given Hardwick is likely heading to the GC?

There is a bit about the buck stops with Bevo and unless he's listening to the assistants and willing to implement some of their suggestions it's possibly a frustrating job.

Fixing the GM of Football position would be my priority.

Backwards step in his career for King, no?

I will wait for the final outcome of the year, but I think wholesale changes are needed. What that looks like exactly I’m not sure.

I know our development seems to be lacking, our fitness seems to be lacking, our list has been overrated and the club must still think we are a tweak away from a flag. If that’s the case, we don’t need wholesale changes to anyone or anything. We just need that tweak or luck or whatever. If everything is so close to working then I would presume the club would be happy with pretty much everyone. Including the GM, which I agree needs looking at.

This is the frustrating thing. Are we a tweak away from being a contender? Or are we treading water? The answer to that dictates what the club will do with coaches, off field, list management and everything. If the club is the former then why would we make any big changes. We just need to keep topping up, tweak things, get some luck and win the flag?

[bulldogtragic]

Is that the remit of a review rather than an adviser though? If someone like Justin Lepptisch did come in as a senior assistant/senior adviser and his feedback was that our coaching structure wasn't functional or aligned with how he's seen successful clubs operate...what happens after that? Is Bevo then moved on? Everything we know about Beveridge indicates that he won't change his ways.

Bevo's now into his ninth year as senior coach and is the best coach in our club's history. I think the reality of that means that while he's there, things will continue to run the way they've always been run under him and the catalyst for a change in coaching structure or process would be Bevo leaving.

My personal opinion is that if the players are still buying into his messaging then I'd rather stick with Beveridge. It's been a disappointing year, and I thought we were a flag contender, but it's also felt like we could've won 6 of the 9 games we've lost. We've seen a number of success stories after clubs stuck fat with a coach through some disappointing periods, I hold out hope we can do the same with Luke.

The only way Bevo is leaving the club is by his own design. That much is certain. A big month of footy ahead.

[azabob]

The only way Bevo is leaving the club is by his own design. That much is certain. A big month of footy ahead.

Yep, this is the reality.

[bulldogtragic]

Yep, this is the reality.

As a pure hypothetical, say we didn’t sign him 12 months early. What would we doing now? Re-signing him today or waiting until the end of season?

[azabob]

As a pure hypothetical, say we didn’t sign him 12 months early. What would we doing now? Re-signing him today or waiting until the end of season?

It’s a great hypothetical, I think he would’ve been signed after our early season run of wins.

[bulldogtragic]

It’s a great hypothetical, I think he would’ve been signed after our early season run of wins.

After the heat of the Saints loss, after the Dees loss. Which win would’ve been enough to put that in the rear view, before the bad losses before the bye?

I would’ve thought the bye would be the time after the saints loss, but after the pre bye losses, I reckon it wouldn’t have been done. Then after breaking his hand while we gave us a narrow win, plus last weekend I’m not sure he’d be signed yet either.

I reckon we’d have waited to the end of the year. And if we parted ways, if, there’s no two year contract in the way. Or he wins a final or better and gets the two years.

[jeemak]

I really hope this comes back to bite me, but we seriously need a coaching change, and id go so far as to say it will have a near immediate impact. We need a new coach who is able to communicate and lead in a different way/style.

We're on a massive plateau with the obvious gains of younger players maturing completely offset with the older players dropping off.

Change needs to happen, Bevo will go down as our God who delivered us to the promised land, but its now at a point where we need to change to see us have another crack at the mountain.

Personally Id love to see us onboard a supreme tactician. (aka like we had with rocket) whether that's in the main capacity or as a senior assistant.

It's interesting how we look back at Eade. He was never able to get past a prelim but had every piece to work with outside of a decent tall forward. While with Bevo he gets us to two grand finals with sides probably lacking, particularly in defence, versus our 2008-2010 sides (albeit with Bontempelli) and for some reason many don't think he's tactically astute.

Not saying it's wrong, just an observation.

Really good call on the drop-off across our mature set offsetting the improvement in our youth.

[AshMac]

The only way Bevo is leaving the club is by his own design. That much is certain. A big month of footy ahead.

which is actually a real shame. For 3 years we've been told the club has focused on key deficiencies only for them to be apparent the following year. We have arguably the best list on paper in my lifetime (42 years a dogs fan) and we're a 5-10th team.

What kills me though, is that we apparently spent an entire off season on a gameplan we nuked after round 2. The impact of that is surely taking its toll now and has been noticeable the whole season with our superstars being superstars and our B- players looking lost and the team not able to compete for 4 quarters in games against higher teams.

The message isnt getting through anymore. Its time for wholesale change

[Bulldog4life]

I am unashamedly a big fan of Bevo. He has been the best coach in our history. Two grand finals in 9 years with this year still to play out. Not a super long time. His best still could be in front of him. Look at Longmire. Swans coach since 2011. One premiership. But he is a great coach too. It is an even competition we just have to accept that. I hope he stays for another 9 years and maybe another 2 grand finals. The players love Bevo. He has their back. They know it. If Bevo did go watch some of the players go too. To whichever club he coaches next. Which is a given.

[Mantis]

I am unashamedly a big fan of Bevo. He has been the best coach in our history. Two grand finals in 9 years with this year still to play out. Not a super long time. His best still could be in front of him. Look at Longmire. Swans coach since 2011. One premiership. But he is a great coach too. It is an even competition we just have to accept that. I hope he stays for another 9 years and maybe another 2 grand finals. The players love Bevo. He has their back. They know it. If Bevo did go watch some of the players go too. To whichever club he coaches next. Which is a given.

Which players do you think we're most at risk of losing if we move on Bevo, or he chooses to leave?

[Bulldog4life]

Which players do you think we're most at risk of losing if we move on Bevo, or he chooses to leave?

Good question Mantis. Truthfully I have no idea. I have seen it happen over my time following footy with other coaches. When I say it is a given I believe it is a given Bevo would coach again at another club. He is too good of a coach to not coach again and I definitely don't see him in the media ha ha. I probably should have said "If Bevo does go hopefully none of the players follow him if he coaches again at another club".

[bornadog]

I am unashamedly a big fan of Bevo. He has been the best coach in our history. Two grand finals in 9 years with this year still to play out. Not a super long time. His best still could be in front of him. Look at Longmire. Swans coach since 2011. One premiership. But he is a great coach too. It is an even competition we just have to accept that. I hope he stays for another 9 years and maybe another 2 grand finals. The players love Bevo. He has their back. They know it. If Bevo did go watch some of the players go too. To whichever club he coaches next. Which is a given.

The thing is if we weren't playing finals every year, and we still had a decent list, then I would say that's it, time for a refresh. Some will argue they want a top 4 finish (we all do) and anything else is not good enough and it is the coach's fault.

Whilst we are still in it and have a chance, then why change.

[JanLorMill]

Which players do you think we're most at risk of losing if we move on Bevo, or he chooses to leave?
All the favourites McComb, Lloyd, Gowers, Hayes, Hannan and Bruce.
Seriously why would players leave if goes by his own decision?

[Vred]

Had a chat with one of our board members yesterday.

They have heard the criticism of both fans and media this year, the board-member I spoke to admitted they didn't do enough with the assistant changes last season. Without going into too much detail they are looking to move Bevo into more of the Hinkley style coaching role, next season they are looking at setting him as the motivator, managing player relationships, rev ups, on the boundary line on game day etc, they want a host of experienced assistant coaches to set our ''game style'' and run the ''game plan'' on match day with Bevo taking a backseat to actual tactics.

This system has worked well for other clubs, currently Bevo does both, he takes on a huge amount of workload managing both player relationships and the running of game-day, might see a different look/attitude Bevo next season with the changes they want to make.

Right now it's finding a host of experienced assistant coaches to come in that will be key to our success next season.

[ReLoad]

Had a chat with one of our board members yesterday.

They have heard the criticism of both fans and media this year, the board-member I spoke to admitted they didn't do enough with the assistant changes last season. Without going into too much detail they are looking to move Bevo into more of the Hinkley style coaching role, next season they are looking at setting him as the motivator, managing player relationships, rev ups, on the boundary line on game day etc, they want a host of experienced assistant coaches to set our ''game style'' and run the ''game plan'' on match day with Bevo taking a backseat to actual tactics.

This system has worked well for other clubs, currently Bevo does both, he takes on a huge amount of workload managing both player relationships and the running of game-day, might see a different look/attitude Bevo next season with the changes they want to make.

Right now it's finding a host of experienced assistant coaches to come in that will be key to our success next season.

This is the best news!!!!

Thank you so much for sharing.

[1eyedog]

Five years too late but better late than never.

[bulldogtragic]

If they said this stuff publicly, but more polished in PR Speak, we’d have a lot less to discuss here. If Bevo is over stretched then it makes sense to play his strengthens and get him the support to advance things. Then there’s time to see how this works and no one is talking about sharp axes, we are waiting to see if it works.

Stew Dew would be target number one for me. If McQualter doesn’t get a gig he looks pretty switched on. In this set up, where the assistants can showcase their nous, hopefully that’s seen as a chance to showcase their abilities for a senior job and that enough to attract a couple of good candidates.

[Bullies]

which is actually a real shame. For 3 years we've been told the club has focused on key deficiencies only for them to be apparent the following year. We have arguably the best list on paper in my lifetime (42 years a dogs fan) and we're a 5-10th team.

What kills me though, is that we apparently spent an entire off season on a gameplan we nuked after round 2. The impact of that is surely taking its toll now and has been noticeable the whole season with our superstars being superstars and our B- players looking lost and the team not able to compete for 4 quarters in games against higher teams.

The message isnt getting through anymore. Its time for wholesale change One other point lost in all this as well was the move to Skinner Reserve for pre season and training for most of this season. The ground was rock hard, facilities were ordinary and the players did not like going there. Hopefully the new state of the art facilities will see a boost in enthusiasm as well.

[JanLorMill]

Changing Bevo’s role all well and good but what if we miss finals? That board member should be one of many to go.

[bulldogtragic]

Changing Bevo’s role all well and good but what if we miss finals? That board member should be one of many to go.

Word on the street is Bevo hands in a resignation letter.

[ReLoad]

Word on the street is Bevo hands in a resignation letter.

thats pretty big news! A lot to play for this weekend then.

[bulldogtragic]

thats pretty big news! A lot to play for this weekend then.

That was when we were safely in the top 8. Easy to say stuff like this before dropping a slate of games you should?ve won? But if it holds true, he needs to make finals. This team should be playing finals. He?s still got two years though. If that board member is to be believed the plan, finals or not, is Bevo seeing out his time. But it seems a Bevo (honourable) thing to do if we blow this season which we said we were on our window for after getting Lobb & Jones.

I?d prefer finals and a restructure. So let?s see if we can do the Hawks in Tassie.

[JanLorMill]

Word on the street is Bevo hands in a resignation letter.
Miss finals Bevo shouldn’t be the only one.

[bornadog]

Word on the street is Bevo hands in a resignation letter.

What street? I find this hard to believe after signing a two year extension.

[bulldogtragic]

What street? I find this hard to believe after signing a two year extension.

Was just out there. As a pride/honour thing that Bevo would ‘offer’ a resignation if we missed finals. What the club does with it hypothetically??

Being that we should make finals with two more wins it’s a moot point.

[SonofScray]

Thanks vRed, that's somewhat more palatable than more of the same.

Could all be a moot point if we don't perform well from here on in and win a final.

[ledge]

One other point lost in all this as well was the move to Skinner Reserve for pre season and training for most of this season. The ground was rock hard, facilities were ordinary and the players did not like going there. Hopefully the new state of the art facilities will see a boost in enthusiasm as well.

How dare you have a go at skinners , that is all through the history of the bulldogs practice matches and the fact I played at sunshine and grew up living on that ground has no bearing on my statement :-)

[SonofScray]

How dare you have a go at skinners , that is all through the history of the bulldogs practice matches and the fact I played at sunshine and grew up living on that ground has no bearing on my statement :-)

I have been kicking the footy there with my daughter, they did a great job with the upgrade.

Also got a red card playing soccer there back in the day.

[mjp]

...they are looking to move Bevo into more of the Hinkley style coaching role, next season they are looking at setting him as the motivator, managing player relationships, rev ups, on the boundary line on game day etc, they want a host of experienced assistant coaches to set our ''game style'' and run the ''game plan'' on match day with Bevo taking a backseat to actual tactics...

Just out of interest, is this something Bevo is on board with?

I?m not really sure what the ?Hinkley model? is but I suspect it was thought of somewhat differently before port lost 4 - that?s right, FOUR - in a row!

[Vred]

Just out of interest, is this something Bevo is on board with?

I?m not really sure what the ?Hinkley model? is but I suspect it was thought of somewhat differently before port lost 4 - that?s right, FOUR - in a row!

Port probably have 8 of their best 22 out at the moment, not really an excuse but it doesn't help.

Having assistant coaches run the game plan and the head coach working on morale boosting/sideline coaching isn't just limited to Port, it's been adopted by a few clubs over the years.

Couldn't say if Bevo is onboard with it or not, just that it's the way our football department plan to setup for next season.

[ledge]

Port probably have 8 of their best 22 out at the moment, not really an excuse but it doesn't help.

Having assistant coaches run the game plan and the head coach working on morale boosting/sideline coaching isn't just limited to Port, it's been adopted by a few clubs over the years.

Couldn't say if Bevo is onboard with it or not, just that it's the way our football department plan to setup for next season.

Sounds like a soccer manager type roll which I’m surprised didn’t come in years ago.

[azabob]

What street? I find this hard to believe after signing a two year extension.

It is speculation that has been posted on this website and most likely this thread. Probably a few months ago before our five odd wins in a row.

[Grantysghost]

Just out of interest, is this something Bevo is on board with?

I?m not really sure what the ?Hinkley model? is but I suspect it was thought of somewhat differently before port lost 4 - that?s right, FOUR - in a row!

I can't imagine Bevo agreeing to this in any way.

[jeemak]

Just out of interest, is this something Bevo is on board with?

I?m not really sure what the ?Hinkley model? is but I suspect it was thought of somewhat differently before port lost 4 - that?s right, FOUR - in a row!

I just don't know how people will feel about having more than one person to blame if things don't go soundly.

[mjp]

... just that it's the way our football department plan to setup for next season.

So the ‘footy dept’ are going to apply a plan that we are unsure the most important member of the footy dept agrees with? Cool. Cannot see any way that this ends in tears!

I’m so glad to hear that whoever it is (faceless people claiming they made mistakes that have let the coach down) are now going to apply solutions that the coach may or may not want. It’s so awesome.

[bornadog]

It is speculation that has been posted on this website and most likely this thread. Probably a few months ago before our five odd wins in a row.

So speculation that has no substance


So the ‘footy dept’ are going to apply a plan that we are unsure the most important member of the footy dept agrees with? Cool. Cannot see any way that this ends in tears!

I’m so glad to hear that whoever it is (faceless people claiming they made mistakes that have let the coach down) are now going to apply solutions that the coach may or may not want. It’s so awesome.

I can't see this is going to work

[azabob]

So the ‘footy dept’ are going to apply a plan that we are unsure the most important member of the footy dept agrees with? Cool. Cannot see any way that this ends in tears!

I’m so glad to hear that whoever it is (faceless people claiming they made mistakes that have let the coach down) are now going to apply solutions that the coach may or may not want. It’s so awesome.

mjp is our game plan at the cutting edge or do we appear a step behind?

[mjp]

mjp is our game plan at the cutting edge or do we appear a step behind?

I've no idea.

I don't think we've lost by more than 22 points since the St Kilda game in Round 2. I've seen a thread criticising our % but Carlton have played WCE twice - with Curnow kicking 19 in two games - and we haven't played them once. If you think a couple of 100 point wins might have helped us along with regards percentage, well...Further, we were shafted at Gather Round by being allocated a SA team to play over there...absolute BS fixturing...then there's the Ballarat one week, Darwin the next fixturing which was complete rubbish as well.

Have I been frustrated at times when we have lost close games to Sydney, GWS, GC, Collingwood, Port (twice) and Geelong? Sure. But were all the losses 'game plan' related? Geez - I dunno.

It's hard you know. The lack of continuity in our defensive half is both a genuine reason for our issues and a crutch/convenient excuse. The mess with the recruitment of Lobb (as well as players such as TOB and Hannan - older players who are not best 10-12)...are they coaching related or list management...and how much say does the coach have? A lot or not much or less than he'd like or more than he should?

I am not going to defend Bevo to the death but I worry when I hear that 'people' who are only observers and not decision makers are saying things like 'yeah, we should have done something better last year but we didn't...so THIS year we will DEFINITELY do something'. I don't know Matt Spangher and don't 'really' know Rohan Smith but Marc Webb is an excellent coach and I'm certain he would be a good supporter of Bevo...and I'm equally certain he would be make suggestions and challenging decisions...I'm sure the other guys are as well.

The Skinner reserve thing has been mentioned...I've heard it did create a bit of negativity amongst the group - different venues for different things, nowhere for coffee together etc - and I'm sure it contributed to the lack of team early in the year...I've only been around the team a little bit this year (only one game in Perth) but when they were here they were united and welcoming and seemed happy...they played bloody good footy in that game as well.

Game plan aside, I guess my point is that if Bevo is the man then statements like "It doesn't matter whether or not he likes it, that's what the footy dept is gonna be doing...' are just:
1/. Crap.
2/. Grandstanding.

You've all gotta be in it TOGETHER from Pres on down...establishing an agreed framework (and behaviours) with which to work within...I'm pretty sure 'like it or lump it' as an ultimatum to anyone - let alone to the person who in so many ways is the fulcrum of the footy club - would be outside of any framework anyone could ever imagine.

[Grantysghost]

It feels like something someone who doesn't like Bevo might make up, with enough surface cred to make it seem legit, leveraging enough confirmation bias to get it shared, however absolutely falls apart under any intelligent scrutiny.

[kruder]

Had a chat with one of our board members yesterday.

They have heard the criticism of both fans and media this year, the board-member I spoke to admitted they didn't do enough with the assistant changes last season. Without going into too much detail they are looking to move Bevo into more of the Hinkley style coaching role, next season they are looking at setting him as the motivator, managing player relationships, rev ups, on the boundary line on game day etc, they want a host of experienced assistant coaches to set our ''game style'' and run the ''game plan'' on match day with Bevo taking a backseat to actual tactics.

This system has worked well for other clubs, currently Bevo does both, he takes on a huge amount of workload managing both player relationships and the running of game-day, might see a different look/attitude Bevo next season with the changes they want to make.

Right now it's finding a host of experienced assistant coaches to come in that will be key to our success next season.

All they could come up with was bring in Lade from an unsuccessful program after an internal review? We absolutely deserve heat that's for sure I actually feel for Bevo because let's be honest he is the one the is copping it, boards as they usual do make poor decisions without consequence.

That's for the info Vred, always love hearing snippets from inside.

[Bullies]

How dare you have a go at skinners , that is all through the history of the bulldogs practice matches and the fact I played at sunshine and grew up living on that ground has no bearing on my statement :-) We were happy to play in mud pits or on rock hard centre wickets and destroy our knees - the precious ones these days not so.

[bulldogtragic]

The pressure on Bevo is dialled up to 11.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The pressure on Bevo is dialled up to 11.

Hope he walks. Chris Grant doesn't have it in him to make a hard decision.

[SonofScray]

Swing it.

Don’t defend him. Don’t make excuses.

Stop it. Take a breath and make a good decision. Axe him and move on.

[bulldogtragic]

Hope he walks. Chris Grant doesn't have it in him to make a hard decision.

Chris Grant needs to walk too.

[SonofScray]

Hope he walks. Chris Grant doesn't have it in him to make a hard decision.

Then he has to go too.

Grant OUT.
Bevo OUT.

[bulldogtragic]

Then he has to go too.

Grant OUT.
Bevo OUT.

If it’s good enough to oust Bubba presumably because he’s been there too long and we need people, that’s a good enough argument for others too.

[GVGjr]

I don't think Bevo is really the issue but our whole football department set-up doesn't appear to be working like it should.
I'll be interested in Bevo's take on today's heartbreaking loss

[bulldogtragic]

I don't think Bevo is really the issue but our whole football department set-up doesn't appear to be working like it should.
I'll be interested in Bevo's take on today's heartbreaking loss

Another in a series of wasteful heart breaking losses to inferior talented teams…

[SonofScray]

I don't think Bevo is really the issue but our whole football department set-up doesn't appear to be working like it should.
I'll be interested in Bevo's take on today's heartbreaking loss

Might be the case, but he is part of that set up and he is finished. The whole thing has to be blown up now.

We’ve had time and opportunity to get a different look at things and are being found wanting at every turn.

[Bullies]

I don't think Bevo is really the issue but our whole football department set-up doesn't appear to be working like it should.
I'll be interested in Bevo's take on today's heartbreaking loss Really. Do you think Bevo will say anything different than what he has said. Everyone has a used by date.

[GVGjr]

Really. Do you think Bevo will say anything different than what he has said. Everyone has a used by date.

I agree with this in principle and I'm not scared to try an untested senior coach either but if we look deeper than the heartbreaking losses is it really just all on Bevo?

My trepidation to land it all on Bevo stems from the points I made on this thread on post #98

https://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?23657-Western-Bulldogs-accused-of-wasting-golden-era/page7

There were a lot of diversions on the thread that attacked the journo and questioned his integrity rather than being willing to look a bit deeper to the reasons why we aren't performing like we should. I think this is bigger than just Bevo but enjoy a good discussion on why removing him solves our issues. It might fix some peoples frustrations more than fixing the challenges of the club.

[jeemak]

Between Baines, Watson Wheeler, Grant and Bevo we have turned ourselves into a bland, uninteresting, joyless and unreliable footy club.

That's even before I start on the players who just seem to take the piss quarter by quarter, week by week and refuse to be accountable for their performances.

Another weekend turned sour, well done you lot.

[azabob]

Between Baines, Watson Wheeler, Grant and Bevo we have turned ourselves into a bland, uninteresting, joyless and unreliable footy club.

That's even before I start on the players who just seem to take the piss quarter by quarter, week by week and refuse to be accountable for their performances.

Another weekend turned sour, well done you lot.

When your two people at the top see their roles as stepping stones to corporate HQ that typically does not end well.

[azabob]

Between Baines, Watson Wheeler, Grant and Bevo we have turned ourselves into a bland, uninteresting, joyless and unreliable footy club.

That's even before I start on the players who just seem to take the piss quarter by quarter, week by week and refuse to be accountable for their performances.

Another weekend turned sour, well done you lot.

Interesting jee. I’m sensing a change in your viewpoint.

[bulldogtragic]

I want some hope. If the club ain’t gunna give it, well o reserve the right to quit footy again.

I have no hope if the plan is the same people doing the same thing next year. Already next year our gun recruits are VDM, Keath, Duryea & TOB…

[Boots]

I agree with this in principle and I'm not scared to try an untested senior coach either but if we look deeper than than the heartbreaking losses is it really just all on Bevo?

My trepidation to land it all on Bevo stems from the points I made on this thread on post #98

https://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?23657-Western-Bulldogs-accused-of-wasting-golden-era/page7

There were a lot of diversions on the thread that attacked the journo and questioned his integrity rather than being willing to look a bit deeper to the reasons why we aren't performing like we should. I think this is bigger than just Bevo but enjoy a good discussion on why removing him solves our issues. It might fix some peoples frustrations more than fixing the challenges of the club.


Agreed GVGjr. I was on the 'sack Bevo' train after Rounds 1 and 2, but I'm not anymore. Take those two games out and, while not a great season or even a good one, it's not sack the coach territory.

Even when we miss finals (we are not beating Geelong at home and it's now necessary to make finals), I won't be on the sack Bevo train. It takes a lot to reinvent the game from a handball-heavy high press to a more balanced approach with more emphasis on kicking and a properly constructed forward line. Get a few other things right - like the club appears to be trying to do - and we'll be OK.

I'd like this awful season to end though. Our losses are sapping my interest in footy, and our wins are not all that inspiring. We've beaten only Brisbane and Carlton in the 8, and lost games to teams currently ranked 16, 15, 13, 11 and 9. Most of our wins came against teams we played twice and split the wins with (Richmond, Giants, Hawks), Freo (who we beat twice), North, and a couple of good games against Brisbane and Carlton. We're a desperately middle-of-the-road team and we can't even put away those teams lower on the ladder than us with any consistency.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I agree with this in principle and I'm not scared to try an untested senior coach either but if we look deeper than the heartbreaking losses is it really just all on Bevo?

My trepidation to land it all on Bevo stems from the points I made on this thread on post #98

https://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?23657-Western-Bulldogs-accused-of-wasting-golden-era/page7

There were a lot of diversions on the thread that attacked the journo and questioned his integrity rather than being willing to look a bit deeper to the reasons why we aren't performing like we should. I think this is bigger than just Bevo but enjoy a good discussion on why removing him solves our issues. It might fix some peoples frustrations more than fixing the challenges of the club.

Removing Bevo doesn't magically solve all our issues, but in any major sport, the buck stops with the head coach/manager. We can't remove/trade 20 odd players (though I hope we DO make a big turnover of the list), it's always easier to begin the period of change by removing the coach and his assistants.

This club needs a circuit breaker. We have fumbled and bumbled since 2021 and Bevo doesn't have the answers or the influence to correct these issues, evidenced no greater than today.

The club declared top 4 at the beginning of the year and now we probably miss finals altogether. Somebody needs to be held accountable, we can't live off 2016 forever and we should learn from a side like Collingwood with Buckley.

I really want to see us make multiple hard decisions though, which extends to the list. Pies had to/traded Treloar and Grundy and while they were different circumstances it hasn't hindered them whatsoever. If we apply the same logic, I don't see why we're scared of trading Macrae/Smith etc. It's a business (mostly) - players need to understand that, and our group particularly could do with a bit of resolve.

All in all, Bevo has had long enough to make corrections and he's failed miserably. We're under performing, we can't beat the better sides and we regularly drop games like today (see v Gold Coast, v Geelong, v Sydney).

[jeemak]

Interesting jee. I’m sensing a change in your viewpoint.

Not really.

I think Bevo is a good coach and the right coach, but he needs strong leadership to be kept out of his own arse, and better players as I've mentioned before.

[GVGjr]

Agreed GVGjr. I was on the 'sack Bevo' train after Rounds 1 and 2, but I'm not anymore. Take those two games out and, while not a great season or even a good one, it's not sack the coach territory.

Even when we miss finals (we are not beating Geelong at home and it's now necessary to make finals), I won't be on the sack Bevo train. It takes a lot to reinvent the game from a handball-heavy high press to a more balanced approach with more emphasis on kicking and a properly constructed forward line. Get a few other things right - like the club appears to be trying to do - and we'll be OK.

I'd like this awful season to end though. Our losses are sapping my interest in footy, and our wins are not all that inspiring. We've beaten only Brisbane and Carlton in the 8, and lost games to teams currently ranked 16, 15, 13, 11 and 9. Most of our wins came against teams we played twice and split the wins with (Richmond, Giants, Hawks), Freo (who we beat twice), North, and a couple of good games against Brisbane and Carlton. We're a desperately middle-of-the-road team and we can't even put away those teams lower on the ladder than us with any consistency.

Well I've previously said that if we don't make the eight or win a final then the season is a fail and we could be forced into a deeper look at things like the list, recruiting and the coach and I still believe that to be the benchmark and the catalyst.

[Bullies]

I agree with this in principle and I'm not scared to try an untested senior coach either but if we look deeper than the heartbreaking losses is it really just all on Bevo?

My trepidation to land it all on Bevo stems from the points I made on this thread on post #98

https://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?23657-Western-Bulldogs-accused-of-wasting-golden-era/page7

There were a lot of diversions on the thread that attacked the journo and questioned his integrity rather than being willing to look a bit deeper to the reasons why we aren't performing like we should. I think this is bigger than just Bevo but enjoy a good discussion on why removing him solves our issues. It might fix some peoples frustrations more than fixing the challenges of the club. We will forever be indebted to Bevo for what he has done however for whatever reason the message is stale and not getting through. We need new ideas and the players need a new voice. Kingsley at GWS, McRae at Collingwood. Our list is to good to waste. We need change and we can't keep doing the same and expect different results.

[SonofScray]

Between Baines, Watson Wheeler, Grant and Bevo we have turned ourselves into a bland, uninteresting, joyless and unreliable footy club.

That's even before I start on the players who just seem to take the piss quarter by quarter, week by week and refuse to be accountable for their performances.

Another weekend turned sour, well done you lot.

Baines seems to be doing all the non footy, non fans stuff right. But he won?t be far off my hit list if things keep going. Don?t like him, but respect he has been good for the balance sheet.

Grant can go.

KWW I have no clue about. Who is she? Where is she? Non factor.

[Vred]

Baines seems to be doing all the non footy, non fans stuff right. But he won?t be far off my hit list if things keep going. Don?t like him, but respect he has been good for the balance sheet.

Grant can go.

KWW I have no clue about. Who is she? Where is she? Non factor.

Word on the street is Baines is being chased *hard* by the Hawks, one insider I speak to is positive he'll be there next season.

[Hotdog60]

I keep hearing our list is good enough and we need to move Bevo on for a fresh voice but I'd ask the question is our list good enough?
Treloar although talented is he hard at it.
JUH is still learning the ropes
Weightman see JUH
The Bont is a star but he needs more support.
B.Smith he's head could be a problem and for player that could show promise is giving very little.
Lobb is he doing enough but is that our fault or that all you get.
Macrae has skills but is off the boil is this a change in role.
Baker handy but on the fringe.
West smart footballer but lacks pace for the role he is playing.
Duryea time has caught up.
Mclean cooked
Bruce cooked
O'Donnell shows something but still learning
L. Jones won't be there forever and next year may fall of a cliff
Richards good honest footballer
Liber busts a gut but lacks pace if he doesn't win it
O'Brien is backup
Vandermeer has pace but lacks skill
Poulter see Baker
Scott is fringe
Hannan cooked
McNeil could a smart footballer but his skills don't show it
Dale is good outside runner but not great defensively
A. Jones unknown but shouldn't be there at the moment
Naughton is a class act but let down by his disposal in front of the sticks
Williams see Baker but a little better
Daniel is a class player but he needs time and space.
Johannisen great footballer but for a pacey player has suss hamstrings
Keath can look good but do you want the ball in his hands
Gardner fills a hole but see Keath
English would be better placed as the relieving ruck rather than the main man but from what I read doesn't see it that way.

All the other players are either young and learning or won't make the grade although Sweet could have been a good combo with English but that ship has bolted.

How many star players do you see on this list?

[ledge]

We just got called the perennial under achievers by bombers fans .. can you believe that ! We might be but I think the bombers top us in that department . Kettle / black

[bulldogtragic]

We just got called the perennial under achievers by bombers fans .. can you believe that ! We might be but I think the bombers top us in that department . Kettle / black

I guess their logic is they’re shit and shouldn’t be playing in or winning finals. And with our talent, we should be playing and winning finals. In that sense we are under achievers. We left six wins on the table this year after leading. I guess that’s under achieving.

[GVGjr]

I keep hearing our list is good enough and we need to move Bevo on for a fresh voice but I'd ask the question is our list good enough?

How many star players do you see on this list?

Well here is the thing, the list is of the club's making and it's neither clearly rebuilding like say a Hawthorn or continually topping up following the Geelong model.
In fairness most clubs do what we have been doing but I'd say we've been far more patient with players with marginal talent levels by maintaining them on the playing list for longer than is ideal. As a result of that we are now at the stage with a couple of players like Bailey Smith and Rhylee West who are stalling a bit where we don't have a lot younger talent coming through.
And again in fairness we have invested heavily in Ugle-Hagan and Darcy which has eaten into our early picks currency in recent years which is why we've tried to balance things by endeavoring to strike it rich with slightly more mature state league players which is no guarantee to success and certainly is part of our lack of star players. Losing Dunkley in his prime also weakens our star player levels.

BT suggests we need to do a hard reset for a year and I think there is merit in that approach, whether the club takes on that challenge remains to be seen.

[SonofScray]

He should be gone by the end of the day.

Anything less is a failure of the leadership. They are letting us all down.

[1eyedog]

Agreed GVGjr. I was on the 'sack Bevo' train after Rounds 1 and 2, but I'm not anymore. Take those two games out and, while not a great season or even a good one, it's not sack the coach territory.

Even when we miss finals (we are not beating Geelong at home and it's now necessary to make finals), I won't be on the sack Bevo train. It takes a lot to reinvent the game from a handball-heavy high press to a more balanced approach with more emphasis on kicking and a properly constructed forward line. Get a few other things right - like the club appears to be trying to do - and we'll be OK.

I'd like this awful season to end though. Our losses are sapping my interest in footy, and our wins are not all that inspiring. We've beaten only Brisbane and Carlton in the 8, and lost games to teams currently ranked 16, 15, 13, 11 and 9. Most of our wins came against teams we played twice and split the wins with (Richmond, Giants, Hawks), Freo (who we beat twice), North, and a couple of good games against Brisbane and Carlton. We're a desperately middle-of-the-road team and we can't even put away those teams lower on the ladder than us with any consistency.

Your post convinced me we need to sack Bevo. Terrible, terrible loses, no top 8 wins and a supporter base that is close to checking out.

[1eyedog]

Well here is the thing, the list is of the club's making and it's neither clearly rebuilding like say a Hawthorn or continually topping up following the Geelong model.
In fairness most clubs do what we have been doing but I'd say we've been far more patient with players with marginal talent levels by maintaining them on the playing list for longer than is ideal. As a result of that we are now at the stage with a couple of players like Bailey Smith and Rhylee West who are stalling a bit where we don't have a lot younger talent coming through.
And again in fairness we have invested heavily in Ugle-Hagan and Darcy which has eaten into our early picks currency in recent years which is why we've tried to balance things by endeavoring to strike it rich with slightly more mature state league players which is no guarantee to success and certainly is part of our lack of star players. Losing Dunkley in his prime also weakens our star player levels.

BT suggests we need to do a hard reset for a year and I think there is merit in that approach, whether the club takes on that challenge remains to be seen.

Bevo gets way too close emotionally to the players makes the hard calls harder.

Roarke Smith should have been delisted 2 years ago. Khamis and Sweet have been on the list for FIVE years for a combined total of 20 games.

[ledge]

Your post convinced me we need to sack Bevo. Terrible, terrible loses, no top 8 wins and a supporter base that is close to checking out.

Not sure about the supporter base checking out we have record members.

[1eyedog]

Not sure about the supporter base checking out we have record members.

Read the room Ledge.

[GVGjr]

Bevo gets way too close emotionally to the players makes the hard calls harder.

That's quite true and you can see after making the hard call on Rohan Smith how hard it actually hit him. Multiply that across a tightly knit playing group and it would difficult for him to let go of players who are giving their all.

This is why I believe we need a strong GM of Footy and perhaps he needs to be making the calls more than a very invested coach.

[Mofra]

Roarke Smith should have been delisted 2 years ago. Khamis and Sweet have been on the list for FIVE years for a combined total of 20 games.
You'd delist a guy immediately after being one of our best players in a Grand Final? Really?

[bornadog]

People on social media talking about tearing their memberships up are not real supporters.

[1eyedog]

You'd delist a guy immediately after being one of our best players in a Grand Final? Really?

Wasn't hard after half time. He is a bit player across every other game and everyone knows it.

[1eyedog]

People on social media talking about tearing their memberships up are not real supporters.

Regardless this is what I mean. Can the club afford to lose these 'not real supporters' and roll out 40-45k members next year? Would be damning.

[bulldogtragic]

People on social media talking about tearing their memberships up are not real supporters.

Why not? Don’t people grieve losses and manifest stresses in different ways? If that’s their way, not mine, I won’t judge them for it. We all process things differently.

[Mofra]

Wasn't hard after half time. He is a bit player across every other game and everyone knows it.
There were plenty of blokes I'd delist at the end of 2021. Roarke absolutely earned at least one more year after his season.

[SonofScray]

That's quite true and you can see after making the hard call on Rohan Smith how hard it actually hit him. Multiply that across a tightly knit playing group and it would difficult for him to let go of players who are giving their all.

This is why I believe we need a strong GM of Footy and perhaps he needs to be making the calls more than a very invested coach. Where a lot of people see a guy with really high emotional intelligence, I see a lack of professional boundaries. If we had a strong GM perhaps those boundaries could be reset or reframed strategically so Bevo can have the relationship he needs for his coaching to work.

But we don’t and it isn’t working.

I’ll be harping for a few days before I calm down, but he simply has to go. Quicker the better.

[Grantysghost]

Where a lot of people see a guy with really high emotional intelligence, I see a lack of professional boundaries. If we had a strong GM perhaps those boundaries could be reset or reframed strategically so Bevo can have the relationship he needs for his coaching to work.

But we don’t and it isn’t working.

I’ll be harping for a few days before I calm down, but he simply has to go. Quicker the better.

I agree with this as cold as it sounds.

You really can't be an emotional decision maker at the macro scale. It doesn't work, there would never be change. What many see as a badge of honour for Bevo in terms of the playing group (I agree), doesn't work outside of that.

Who'd want to be a coach?!

[Grantysghost]

There were plenty of blokes I'd delist at the end of 2021. Roarke absolutely earned at least one more year after his season.

And he's a known quantity. There's this idea you are going to bring in someone better? Who ? Baker? Poulter? More of the same really and actually I prefer Rourke to those two.

[azabob]

Buckley and Cornes view from the weekend.

From the eight minute; fifteen second mark.

https://www.sen.com.au/programs/sen-breakfast/

[angelopetraglia]

We entered round 11 with five wins in a row and 7-3 record after our horror 0-2 start. We had corrected. I felt confident. We looked ready to have a proper assaults on the final four.

From round 11.

Round 11- lose to Suns by 7 (after getting out to a 20 point lead)
Round 12 - lose to Cats by 22 (after being two goals up in the 3rd quarter)
Round 13 - lose to Port by 22
Round 14 - beat North by 21
Round 15 - beat Freo by 29
Round 16 - lose to Pies by 12 (after getting out to a 20 point lead)
Round 17 - lose to Swans by 2 (after getting out to a 19 point lead)
Round 18 - beat Dons by 41
Round 19 - lose to GWS by 5 (after getting out to a 35 point lead)
Round 20 - beat Tigers by 55
Round 21 - lose to Hawks by 3 (after getting out to a 20 point lead twice)

That is four wins in the last eleven weeks. Wins only against North, Freo, Tigers and Dons who are basically shot. Nothing to really celebrate.

That is seven losses. In every single one of those losses we have been in a winning position at some point. We just can't get the job done at the moment. Three losses by less than a goal. Another by 7 points. Another by 12 points. That is five of the seven losses by less than two goals.

After what I saw against Hawthorn and basically another period where we went completely missing for 45 minutes and could not even touch the ball which comes down to effort and concentration, my patience has finally been extinguished. Everything was on the line. The entire season. We go missing. We go missing again.

My view has shifted. We need to put a bomb under the place and blow it up. Serious questions need to be asked. We need a proper review and no ones position should be safe. If we have to go one step backwards to go two forward so be it. We are going no where at the moment.

The record since Round 11 speaks for itself. We have serious issues. Every time we turn the corner, I have given the group the benefit of doubt and then they let let us down again.

[Mantis]

We entered round 11 with five wins in a row and 7-3 record after our horror 0-2 start. We had corrected. I felt confident. We looked ready to have a proper assaults on the final four.

From round 11.

Round 11- lose to Suns by 7 (after getting out to a 20 point lead)
Round 12 - lose to Cats by 22 (after being two goals up in the 3rd quarter)
Round 13 - lose to Port by 22
Round 14 - beat North by 21
Round 15 - beat Freo by 29
Round 16 - lose to Pies by 12 (after getting out to a 20 point lead)
Round 17 - lose to Swans by 2 (after getting out to a 19 point lead)
Round 18 - beat Dons by 41
Round 19 - lose to GWS by 5 (after getting out to a 35 point lead)
Round 20 - beat Tigers by 55
Round 21 - lose to Hawks by 3 (after getting out to a 20 point lead twice)

That is four wins in the last eleven weeks. Wins only against North, Freo, Tigers and Dons who are basically shot. Nothing to really celebrate.

That is seven losses. In every single one of those losses we have been in a winning position at some point. We just can't get the job done at the moment. Three losses by less than a goal. Another by 7 points. Another by 12 points. That is five of the seven losses by less than two goals.

After what I saw against Hawthorn and basically another period where we went completely missing for 45 minutes and could not even touch the ball which comes down to effort and concentration, my patience has finally been extinguished. Everything was on the line. The entire season. We go missing.

My view has shifted. We need to put a bomb under the place and blow it up. Serious questions need to be asked. We need a proper review and no ones position should be safe. If we have to go one step backwards to go two forward so be in it. We are going no where at the moment.

The record since Round 11 speaks for itself. We have serious issues. Every time we turn the corner, I have given the group the benefit of doubt and then they let let us down again.

Great analysis. The evidence supports the need for change and even the most ardent supporters of the current regime must be willing to accept something is amiss. We need to work out what it is a fix it. Standing still isn’t an option.

[bulldogtragic]

Just about post of the year. The facts as they are. Thanks AP for that work.

[GVGjr]

Good points AP. The thing that is really knocking our supporters around is that we have been in winning positions in enough games to be a top 4 side. We have to be better than being a club that frequently limps into the top 8 but rarely gets into a position to genuinely threaten the competition.

[angelopetraglia]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein

[angelopetraglia]

Good points AP. The thing that is really knocking our supporters around is that we have been in winning positions in enough games to be a top 4 side. We have to be better than being a club that frequently limps into the top 8 but rarely gets into a position to genuinely threaten the competition.

Yes. Agree.

If it happens once or twice or three times. You may say you are unlucky. Things didn't go our way. When it happens consistently over a long period and you never, ever get the job done. Not once can you convert a winning position in a crunch game to a win against a quality opponent. It ain't unlucky. It ain't things going against you. It is you. (In reference to the excuses Bevo is throwing up about losing key defenders against the Swans and GWS).

We need stop looking through the window and into the mirror (reference: https://www.millennialleadership.net/the-window-and-the-mirror-leadership-model/). Something systematic is wrong and broken.

[SonofScray]

People on social media talking about tearing their memberships up are not real supporters.

I won’t be renewing my membership at this point. It’s the only avenue I have to communicate just how disappointed and angry I am.

I’ve coughed up through much worse performances and eras, coughed up for nothing in the pandemic. If Bevo has an endless line of credit as a Premiership coach, I’m going to give myself a pass on this front until he is gone. If that makes me not a real supporter, so be it.

[bulldogtragic]

I won?t be renewing my membership at this point. It?s the only avenue I have to communicate just how disappointed and angry I am.

I?ve coughed up through much worse performances and eras, coughed up for nothing in the pandemic. If Bevo has an endless line of credit as a Premiership coach, I?m going to give myself a pass on this front until he is gone. If that makes me not a real supporter, so be it.

I wrote a published research paper a long time ago. This is fairly common, normal and sensible. If this is the only lever you have to express directly to club your dissatisfaction then it?s your right.

A very, very, very long time ago, there was a thing called the ?blue flu? in the police force. Under constant mismanagement and mistreatment the only lever some station members had was to call in sick in large numbers to draw attention to the very dangerous risks being forced upon members. It?s not ideal, but if you have limited means by which to protest then you take what you have to try to get the change you want/need.

You?re on here every day with the tragics wishing for a brighter future. That makes you as real and invested as any supporter. More so even.

[Sedat]

We entered round 11 with five wins in a row and 7-3 record after our horror 0-2 start. We had corrected. I felt confident. We looked ready to have a proper assaults on the final four.

From round 11.

Round 11- lose to Suns by 7 (after getting out to a 20 point lead)
Round 12 - lose to Cats by 22 (after being two goals up in the 3rd quarter)
Round 13 - lose to Port by 22
Round 14 - beat North by 21
Round 15 - beat Freo by 29
Round 16 - lose to Pies by 12 (after getting out to a 20 point lead)
Round 17 - lose to Swans by 2 (after getting out to a 19 point lead)
Round 18 - beat Dons by 41
Round 19 - lose to GWS by 5 (after getting out to a 35 point lead)
Round 20 - beat Tigers by 55
Round 21 - lose to Hawks by 3 (after getting out to a 20 point lead twice)

That is four wins in the last eleven weeks. Wins only against North, Freo, Tigers and Dons who are basically shot. Nothing to really celebrate.

That is seven losses. In every single one of those losses we have been in a winning position at some point. We just can't get the job done at the moment. Three losses by less than a goal. Another by 7 points. Another by 12 points. That is five of the seven losses by less than two goals.

After what I saw against Hawthorn and basically another period where we went completely missing for 45 minutes and could not even touch the ball which comes down to effort and concentration, my patience has finally been extinguished. Everything was on the line. The entire season. We go missing. We go missing again.

My view has shifted. We need to put a bomb under the place and blow it up. Serious questions need to be asked. We need a proper review and no ones position should be safe. If we have to go one step backwards to go two forward so be it. We are going no where at the moment.

The record since Round 11 speaks for itself. We have serious issues. Every time we turn the corner, I have given the group the benefit of doubt and then they let let us down again.
I'm all in on a proper and comprehensive end of season review, but it can wait until 2023 is run and done. The reality is that we are still a better chance than not to make finals (no thanks at all to us, rather the wastefulness of those immediately below us on the ladder). You always want to make finals and test yourself against the best teams in the intensity of September footy. The players and the coaches need to do everything they can to settle on our optimum line-up get on with the job in the next 2 weeks and then see where the cards fall. It's an open season and I'd still rather we make it and give ourselves the opportunity than not.

If we miss out it will be a savage failure based on our own internal expectation and metrics. Game plan, personnel, recruiting and player development, coaching group, fitness & conditioning, everything is on the table for intense review.

[angelopetraglia]

I'm all in on a proper and comprehensive end of season review, but it can wait until 2023 is run and done. The reality is that we are still a better chance than not to make finals (no thanks at all to us, rather the wastefulness of those immediately below us on the ladder). You always want to make finals and test yourself against the best teams in the intensity of September footy. The players and the coaches need to do everything they can to settle on our optimum line-up get on with the job in the next 2 weeks and then see where the cards fall. It's an open season and I'd still rather we make it and give ourselves the opportunity than not.

If we miss out it will be a savage failure based on our own internal expectation and metrics. Game plan, personnel, recruiting and player development, coaching group, fitness & conditioning, everything is on the table for intense review.

Agree with that. Try your hardest for the next two weeks. I have just lost complete faith. When the inevitable happens and our season is finished.

A full comprehensive review that leaves no stone must take place. All the difficult questions must be asked.

[Grantysghost]

I won’t be renewing my membership at this point. It’s the only avenue I have to communicate just how disappointed and angry I am.

I’ve coughed up through much worse performances and eras, coughed up for nothing in the pandemic. If Bevo has an endless line of credit as a Premiership coach, I’m going to give myself a pass on this front until he is gone. If that makes me not a real supporter, so be it.

It's your right to do so mate. I feel like an accompanying email might give it more teeth. I worry the club don't care if they lose one and gain another.

It's been a really frustrating season.

[Grantysghost]

We entered round 11 with five wins in a row and 7-3 record after our horror 0-2 start. We had corrected. I felt confident. We looked ready to have a proper assaults on the final four.

From round 11.

Round 11- lose to Suns by 7 (after getting out to a 20 point lead)
Round 12 - lose to Cats by 22 (after being two goals up in the 3rd quarter)
Round 13 - lose to Port by 22
Round 14 - beat North by 21
Round 15 - beat Freo by 29
Round 16 - lose to Pies by 12 (after getting out to a 20 point lead)
Round 17 - lose to Swans by 2 (after getting out to a 19 point lead)
Round 18 - beat Dons by 41
Round 19 - lose to GWS by 5 (after getting out to a 35 point lead)
Round 20 - beat Tigers by 55
Round 21 - lose to Hawks by 3 (after getting out to a 20 point lead twice)

That is four wins in the last eleven weeks. Wins only against North, Freo, Tigers and Dons who are basically shot. Nothing to really celebrate.

That is seven losses. In every single one of those losses we have been in a winning position at some point. We just can't get the job done at the moment. Three losses by less than a goal. Another by 7 points. Another by 12 points. That is five of the seven losses by less than two goals.

After what I saw against Hawthorn and basically another period where we went completely missing for 45 minutes and could not even touch the ball which comes down to effort and concentration, my patience has finally been extinguished. Everything was on the line. The entire season. We go missing. We go missing again.

My view has shifted. We need to put a bomb under the place and blow it up. Serious questions need to be asked. We need a proper review and no ones position should be safe. If we have to go one step backwards to go two forward so be it. We are going no where at the moment.

The record since Round 11 speaks for itself. We have serious issues. Every time we turn the corner, I have given the group the benefit of doubt and then they let let us down again.

Pretty grim.

We'd be close to bottom 4 on the form ladder.

[Sedat]

Agree with that. Try your hardest for the next two weeks. I have just lost complete faith. When the inevitable happens and our season is finished.

A full comprehensive review that leaves no stone must take place. All the difficult questions must be asked.
They are a conditional group and have shown a remarkable consistency to be inconsistent since the 2021 GF - not just week to week but in game. I suspect this playing group (and possibly coaches as well) are mentally shot from the 2021 GF capitulation, and I also have concerns the coaching group are not 100% buttoned up with regard to latest game trends and are still relying on overall talent over structure. Either that or they are giving too much license to the players to break away from the structure, or they are giving players too many opportunities when they fail to play within structure - I don't know, but something is clearly amiss and there is a major disconnect. We are consistently conceding far too many damaging run-ons in game for this to be swept under the carpet. It feels like we are an overly emotional team, and the problem with playing on emotion is that it lacks consistency and is prone to damaging lapses (as well as scintillating periods of dominance).

Irrespective, our own expectations are that we are a top 4 team and in contention. Time for everyone involved (including players) to be held accountable to this expectation.

[jeemak]

We are in real danger of scapegoating if the season ends with no finals and a coach out the door.

A new voice and the longest allowable preseason will possibly give us a burst for the new season, but it'll just be papering over structural and attitudinal issues with the playing group.

A lack of focus on individual players and their roles in this is something that I hope the club isn't guilty of. They need to get their shit together because only they can decide on the ground if they want to stick a tackle, if they want to chase, if they want to put their heads over the ball in a contest, and if they want to have a ruck kick-out comedically or if they want to revert to the last play in the game training they'd have no doubt done time and again.

If we're sacking coaches and adjusting the football department, then we need to do the same with our playing leadership and core because they're letting us down dreadfully at present. A coach can only do so much, and this group of players has form. APs representation of the results says it all. Apparently the coaching was good enough to get us a lead, but apparently not good enough to maintain or build on it. Sure, but there's a common denominator in all of this and that needs to be the focus just as much as anything else.

[Sedat]

We are in real danger of scapegoating if the season ends with no finals and a coach out the door.

A new voice and the longest allowable preseason will possibly give us a burst for the new season, but it'll just be papering over structural and attitudinal issues with the playing group.

A lack of focus on individual players and their roles in this is something that I hope the club isn't guilty of. They need to get their shit together because only they can decide on the ground if they want to stick a tackle, if they want to chase, if they want to put their heads over the ball in a contest, and if they want to have a ruck kick-out comedically or if they want to revert to the last play in the game training they'd have no doubt done time and again.

If we're sacking coaches and adjusting the football department, then we need to do the same with our playing leadership and core because they're letting us down dreadfully at present. A coach can only do so much, and this group of players has form. APs representation of the results says it all. Apparently the coaching was good enough to get us a lead, but apparently not good enough to maintain or build on it. Sure, but there's a common denominator in all of this and that needs to be the focus just as much as anything else.
100% spot-on. This is not solely a player issue and it is not solely a coaching issue. There is obvious accountability in both areas. If the club thinks making a senior coaching change is all that is required, that would be naive thinking in the extreme. Patterns and trends in our game are obvious and concerning and have been for a couple of years. The reasons need to be soberly assessed in full at the end of the season, otherwise we are not a serious organisation.

[ReLoad]

We entered round 11 with five wins in a row and 7-3 record after our horror 0-2 start. We had corrected. I felt confident. We looked ready to have a proper assaults on the final four.

From round 11.

Round 11- lose to Suns by 7 (after getting out to a 20 point lead)
Round 12 - lose to Cats by 22 (after being two goals up in the 3rd quarter)
Round 13 - lose to Port by 22
Round 14 - beat North by 21
Round 15 - beat Freo by 29
Round 16 - lose to Pies by 12 (after getting out to a 20 point lead)
Round 17 - lose to Swans by 2 (after getting out to a 19 point lead)
Round 18 - beat Dons by 41
Round 19 - lose to GWS by 5 (after getting out to a 35 point lead)
Round 20 - beat Tigers by 55
Round 21 - lose to Hawks by 3 (after getting out to a 20 point lead twice)

That is four wins in the last eleven weeks. Wins only against North, Freo, Tigers and Dons who are basically shot. Nothing to really celebrate.

That is seven losses. In every single one of those losses we have been in a winning position at some point. We just can't get the job done at the moment. Three losses by less than a goal. Another by 7 points. Another by 12 points. That is five of the seven losses by less than two goals.

After what I saw against Hawthorn and basically another period where we went completely missing for 45 minutes and could not even touch the ball which comes down to effort and concentration, my patience has finally been extinguished. Everything was on the line. The entire season. We go missing. We go missing again.

My view has shifted. We need to put a bomb under the place and blow it up. Serious questions need to be asked. We need a proper review and no ones position should be safe. If we have to go one step backwards to go two forward so be it. We are going no where at the moment.

The record since Round 11 speaks for itself. We have serious issues. Every time we turn the corner, I have given the group the benefit of doubt and then they let let us down again.

5% that's all we need to be better. 5% better and were in the top 4.

As others have said The most frustrating and infuriating part is that we've not only been close, but we've been in winning positions. The GF of '21 has placed some sort of capitulation curse on us.

No doubt we need to make some significant coaching changes, no doubt in my mind were not setup correctly in the coaches box, with our front man clearly burnt out.

[angelopetraglia]

5% that's all we need to be better. 5% better and were in the top 4.

As others have said The most frustrating and infuriating part is that we've not only been close, but we've been in winning positions. The GF of '21 has placed some sort of capitulation curse on us.

No doubt we need to make some significant coaching changes, no doubt in my mind were not setup correctly in the coaches box, with our front man clearly burnt out.

Yes. Reminds me of this famous speech.

Because in either game - life or football - the margin for error is so small. I mean, one half a step too late or too early and you don't quite make it. One half second too slow, too fast and you don't quite catch it. The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break of the game, every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone else around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when add up all those inches, that's gonna make the ****ing difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!


https://youtu.be/EHayvzMypUU

Is this team currently fighting for that inch?

[bulldogtragic]

We are in real danger of scapegoating if the season ends with no finals and a coach out the door.

A new voice and the longest allowable preseason will possibly give us a burst for the new season, but it'll just be papering over structural and attitudinal issues with the playing group.

A lack of focus on individual players and their roles in this is something that I hope the club isn't guilty of. They need to get their shit together because only they can decide on the ground if they want to stick a tackle, if they want to chase, if they want to put their heads over the ball in a contest, and if they want to have a ruck kick-out comedically or if they want to revert to the last play in the game training they'd have no doubt done time and again.

If we're sacking coaches and adjusting the football department, then we need to do the same with our playing leadership and core because they're letting us down dreadfully at present. A coach can only do so much, and this group of players has form. APs representation of the results says it all. Apparently the coaching was good enough to get us a lead, but apparently not good enough to maintain or build on it. Sure, but there's a common denominator in all of this and that needs to be the focus just as much as anything else.

Yep. Everyone and everything should be looked at. What’s the worst that happens, we confirm they’re the right people in a job doing the right thing. Best case, we identify better people to do certain jobs &/or do them in a better way. No one should fear scrutiny except those who shouldn’t be there anymore. On field, off field, board room or anywhere in the club structure.

[bornadog]

I won’t be renewing my membership at this point. It’s the only avenue I have to communicate just how disappointed and angry I am.

I’ve coughed up through much worse performances and eras, coughed up for nothing in the pandemic. If Bevo has an endless line of credit as a Premiership coach, I’m going to give myself a pass on this front until he is gone. If that makes me not a real supporter, so be it.

That is your choice.

Like many on here I have seen our club almost merged to nothing, I have seen the club on it's knees begging for money, begging for supporters. Senior club managers walking the streets of Footscray in the industrial parks knocking on business doors to get money, sponsorship to support a local club.

We have now built a club that is financially viable and thank god we don't have to do that grovelling anymore.

If people want to punish the club by not sticking through thick and thin the danger is it will come back to bite us along the line. Could be lack of money for footy department, or having the worse facilities in the AFL, etc

I don't get it why?

[bulldogtragic]

That is your choice.

Like many on here I have seen our club almost merged to nothing, I have seen the club on it's knees begging for money, begging for supporters. Senior club managers walking the streets of Footscray in the industrial parks knocking on business doors to get money, sponsorship to support a local club.

We have now built a club that is financially viable and thank god we don't have to do that grovelling anymore.

If people want to punish the club by not sticking through thick and thin the danger is it will come back to bite us along the line. Could be lack of money for footy department, or having the worse facilities in the AFL, etc

I don't get it why?

I’m not religious and I don’t have kids.

But if I went to church every Sunday and god struck down my kid with cancer I might stop buying into “everything is gods plan and it happens for reason” sermons each week and stop contributing to church coffers to have it rammed down my throat further. I might want a more rounded nuanced explanation about things or changes in message delivery. Perhaps my holding out gets the message through to the minister/vicar.

But I don’t have blind faith, so I guess that’s my sin. Ah well, time to meet Kurt Cobain, I have lots of questions.

[bornadog]

I’m not religious and I don’t have kids.

But if I went to church every Sunday and god struck down my kid with cancer I might stop buying into “everything is gods plan and it happens for reason” sermons each week and stop contributing to church coffers to have it rammed down my throat further.

But I don’t have blind faith, so I guess that’s my sin. Ah well, time to meet Kurt Cobain, I have lots of questions.

Membership is not just about getting tickets to a game. It is more than that.

If people want to join when we win, fine and not join when we lose fine. I actually don't get that attitude.

[angelopetraglia]

Football for me is just not about winning or losing. The winning makes it more fun. No doubt. But the journey is what it it about. The shared journey that unites me with my family, friends and the wider Bulldog community on this crazy, crazy ride. Win or lose, we are still going to the game together. Share a meal, share a laugh, share the pain or share the joy.

I have been a member for 40 consecutive years this year (hooray for me). I will continue to be a member rain, hail or shine. So that is another four memberships and reserved seats for my family and another four memberships and reserved seats for my extended family.

[bornadog]

Football for me is just not about winning or losing. The winning makes it more fun. No doubt. But the journey is what it it about. The shared journey that unites me with my family, friends and the wider Bulldog community on this crazy, crazy ride. Win or lose, we are still going to the game together. Share a meal, share a laugh, share the pain or share the join.

I have been a member for 40 consecutive years this year (hooray for me). I will continue to be a member rain, hail or shine. So that is another four memberships and reserved seats for my family.

Great stuff AP. I am similar to you and got my 50 consecutive membership years scarf that I now wear to games.

Naturally I am hurting badly (as we all are), but on to the next game.

[bulldogtragic]

Membership is not just about getting tickets to a game. It is more than that.

If people want to join when we win, fine and not join when we lose fine. I actually don't get that attitude.

I don’t think SoS is saying that in the slightest. He says he has been a member in worse times. Hence he is not about winning.

I think he’s articulating frustration with the club and inaction that could damage our onfield chances for a while longer and has come to a point where his only recourse to demonstrate to the club his unhappiness is to withhold his membership pending action. He can speak for himself though.

But having researched a range of behaviours, I can understand that human behaviour is such that if you have limited avenues to protest what you think is ongoing mistakes, then you use what you have.

Broadly speaking I agree I don’t understand only buying memberships if we are winning. But I don’t think there’s many, if any, on this forum in that category. Especially not SoS, not saying you were calling him out on that either.

[bornadog]

I don’t think SoS is saying that in the slightest. He says he has been a member in worse times. Hence he is not about winning.

I think he’s articulating frustration with the club and inaction that could damage our onfield chances for a while longer and has come to a point where his only recourse to demonstrate to the club his unhappiness is to withhold his membership pending action. He can speak for himself though.

But having researched a range of behaviours, I can understand that human behaviour is such that if you have limited avenues to protest what you think is ongoing mistakes, then you use what you have.

Broadly speaking I agree I don’t understand only buying memberships if we are winning. But I don’t think there’s many, if any, on this forum in that category. Especially not SoS, not saying you were calling him out on that either.

Didn't call out SOS or anyone on WOOF - comment was a general one from what I have read on socials. Their choice, which I don't understand.

[bulldogtragic]

Didn't call out SOS or anyone on WOOF - comment was a general one from what I have read on socials. Their choice, which I don't understand.

I agree with the principle. Shit or get off the pot if winning is the sole prerequisite of membership. Or those that threaten to nuke their membership after every loss.

But I think we are moving into choppy water when long term members are starting to saying openly that the only recourse I have to try to get my message through to the club is withhold membership until there’s something positive or proactive being done. I look at this sentiment as the big takeaway for where we are right now. People can say what they want on social media…

But in here, in long term tragics the breath this club, Ive just (this morning) read many different posters write about withholding membership, the joy being sucked out of footy by this side, a lack of hope, a lot of frustration at most aspects of the club etc and with long term posters quitting watching footy altogether. When people who spends hours every day reading or writing about this club, who are level headed committed people of the RWB, are so exasperated to take the time to articulate that the club in its current form is all the things just mentioned. That’s the thing that grabs my attention. And if the club doesn’t want to address this in time then it ignores it at its own peril. Just observing posters comments this morning, I think the circumstances have changed and we are about to hit a critical moment in what the club decides or not decides to do.

[mjp]

I think the circumstances have changed and we are about to hit a critical moment in what the club decides or not decides to do.

What do you think they WILL do BT?

[FrediKanoute]

Didnt watch the game. Was in Perth walking around Fremantle. I did follow the scores and saw we established a lead and then went a long period without a goal with The Hawks putting on 5 and then they jumped us at the start of the 4th. I knew the script and pretty much predicted the result at the start of the 2nd when the Hawks got a couple of goals. The script is the same script that we have been following since at least 2021. Get lead. Give up lead. Lose. Don't stop runs of goals etc. Now we have been better this year in that the run of goals have generally not come as quickly as they came in the 2021 GF, but it means a 3 to 5 goal lead is not enough, we are still vulnerable!

The Bulldogs since 2016 have been underachievers. We have blown a golden generation of players (not for the first time) and a generational talent in Bontempelli. The team should have been regular top 4 finishers and made more than just 2 GF's. This season we had all the pieces in place - mobile 2nd ruck/forward; emerging forward line; strong midfield; established ruck; ample talls; backline run. Yet we find ourselves repeating what we have done in previous seasons, struggling to fall into the 8; losing to bottom half teams; failing to close games out.

I liked what I saw post round 2. Yet we got ourselves to a point where we could get into the top 4 and proceeded to lose to the Suns sparking a run of losses. undoing the good work. 4 wins from our last 11 is poor for a team loaded with talent. Getting into the finals masks the problems we have. I don't think they are skills or talent related, but more personnel and tactics. The coach has to bear the responsibility. Either the message is stale, the playing group too comfortable, or the plan is flawed.

I was ok with us signing Bevo at the end of last year. If the club hadn't the whole season would have been about will he/wont he sign. If we had made the tope 4 or the GF or won the flag and then lost Bevo people here and elsewhere would have been ropable. I was also ok with having to pay him out if he underachieved. This is where I am today. I think its time. Scraping into the finals is not a pass mark. Holding onto Bevo for another season allowing another year of Bontempelli to drift into oblivion is irresponsible. There are a number of coaches I think have the ability to take the group forward sitting on the sidelines - experienced coaches like Buckley, and Cameron. Young coaches like Ash Hansen, Gia, Boyd. Its time for new ideas. Bevo will always be a special part of the Bulldogs, but his time is up.

[mjp]

Didnt watch the game. Was in Perth walking around Fremantle.

How was Freo?

Where did you go? Sure was a beautiful day!!

[angelopetraglia]

David King. "I think it demands a full review ..." https://twitter.com/1116sen/status/1690900367176081409?s=20

[SonofScray]

David King. "I think it demands a full review ..." https://twitter.com/1116sen/status/1690900367176081409?s=20

Didn't we do a review already?

FFS.

[jeemak]

David King. "I think it demands a full review ..." https://twitter.com/1116sen/status/1690900367176081409?s=20

Their talented list that has holes all over it, has no depth, and one defensive tall (who hasn't played for half the season give or take) that would get a game in most top twelve sides........everyone says our list is super talented but doesn't really think about it. It's maddening.

[bornadog]

Their talented list that has holes all over it, has no depth, and one defensive tall (who hasn't played for half the season give or take) that would get a game in most top twelve sides........everyone says our list is super talented but doesn't really think about it. It's maddening.

Totally agree. Keath is flaky at best and can't really hold down that role, and I am not happy with our wings. Poulter improving and Baker adequate at best

[angelopetraglia]

Their talented list that has holes all over it, has no depth, and one defensive tall (who hasn't played for half the season give or take) that would get a game in most top twelve sides........everyone says our list is super talented but doesn't really think about it. It's maddening.

Yes. The analysis is very poor to be honest right across the media with very few exceptions.

[jeemak]

Absolutely analyse and review the shit out of us but at least be honest about the capability of the resources available.

If you can't do that then you're missing the entire point.

[angelopetraglia]

Absolutely analyse and review the shit out of us but at least be honest about the capability of the resources available.

If you can't do that then you're missing the entire point.

But lets be honest. They are not in the let's ensure we are accurate and insightful business. They are in the entertainment business. Whatever gets the most eyeballs and clicks is what they promote. That is the business model.

Famous Charlie Munger quote. “Show me the incentive and I’ll show you the outcome”.

[azabob]

Their talented list that has holes all over it, has no depth, and one defensive tall (who hasn't played for half the season give or take) that would get a game in most top twelve sides........everyone says our list is super talented but doesn't really think about it. It's maddening.

What are you responding to? To David Kings comments or other general media comments?

[angelopetraglia]

What are you responding to? To David Kings comments or other general media comments?

Not all. But that appears to be the narrative of most commentators looking for a headline. Like Cornes.

[jeemak]

What are you responding to? To David Kings comments or other general media comments?

I didn't listen to the hot take on twitter, just read the following - David King is struggling to work out what the problem at the Western Bulldogs is given their list talent.

It's a narrative that he's been pushing and if he seriously can't understand it then he's not as clever as he thinks he is because there's inadequacies/ imbalances across all of the lines that are evident with a rudimentary level of scrutiny. Now it's either incompetence or a ploy, possibly both.

[angelopetraglia]

I didn't listen to the hot take on twitter, just read the following - David King is struggling to work out what the problem at the Western Bulldogs is given their list talent.

It's a narrative that he's been pushing and if he seriously can't understand it then he's not as clever as he thinks he is because there's inadequacies/ imbalances across all of the lines that are evident with a rudimentary level of scrutiny. Now it's either incompetence or a ploy, possibly both.

He failed as a coach. Gambles too much. Drinks too much. Now a media commentator.

[azabob]

I didn't listen to the hot take on twitter, just read the following - David King is struggling to work out what the problem at the Western Bulldogs is given their list talent.

It's a narrative that he's been pushing and if he seriously can't understand it then he's not as clever as he thinks he is because there's inadequacies/ imbalances across all of the lines that are evident with a rudimentary level of scrutiny. Now it's either incompetence or a ploy, possibly both.

Ok, maybe you should listen to the 2 minutes of audio.

I also think you are lumping Cornes and King into the same basket assuming the both have the same narrative on the Dogs - which they do not.

[DOG GOD]

I really laugh when I see the media overate our list. Look at it. We have a handful of A-B+ players. And we have more than a handful of VFL standard players. Yes we look good on paper full strength, but there is still glaring holes and hear I’m talking about the team in general. Lack of game plan. Lack of kicking skills, lack of tackling skills, lack of goal kicking skills.

Bont, Libba, Macrae, Treloar and smith look great but are massively overrated in what they offer in a team play environment.

We have a fwd line with 3 genuine fwds (Jamarra, Lobb and Weightman)
We have a CHB playing FF who can’t kick….simple.
And we have mids playing fwd coz there?s nowhere else to play them.

Our wingers are VFL standard

Our backline KPD is laughable, except for Jones
Keath (cooked in 2022), O?Brien (vfl standard) Gardner (vfl standard), Bruce (was never going to make it as a backman)
Buss (2 years away) Darcy (2 years away) JOD (18 months away)

I’ve said it before. I honestly didn’t expect us to make the 8 with the list we have, the game plan we have and the coaching staff we have. And unless really big decisions are made, then I see the next 2-3 years being much the same.

People say about the Bont years. Sorry, but they are over. We got our 2016 premiership. I don’t think the bont years will bring another, unless all of things change, but I don’t think we are the club to make the big decisions.

[Grantysghost]

Ok, maybe you should listen to the 2 minutes of audio.

I also think you are lumping Cornes and King into the same basket assuming the both have the same narrative on the Dogs - which they do not.

King is way worse as he actually thinks he knows what he is talking about, whereas Kane is very aware of his method of attention seeking.

[The bulldog tragician]

I would agree our list is over-rated and has clear weaknesses...but it has also been pointed out here the number of matches in which a solid 4 goal+ advantage has been squandered. Even winning half of those - with the same deficiencies - could have had us top 4. It's the fact we so consistently lost such matches from that position that is of concern.

[DOG GOD]

I would agree our list is over-rated and has clear weaknesses...but it has also been pointed out here the number of matches in which a solid 4 goal+ advantage has been squandered. Even winning half of those - with the same deficiencies - could have had us top 4. It's the fact we so consistently lost such matches from that position that is of concern.

And so why is that?

My 2 cents is it’s either our players are mentally weak, body fatigued, or just generally lose focus easily…OR Bevo has no answer to a change of gameplan in the oppositions coaching box.

[bulldogtragic]

Our list is good enough to take 20-40 point leads. List not over rated at this point.

Our list is bad enough to lose after 20-40 point leads. List is over rated at this point.

[GVGjr]

Membership is not just about getting tickets to a game. It is more than that.

If people want to join when we win, fine and not join when we lose fine. I actually don't get that attitude.

There are a few components to this but many people donate to charities, many people leave restaurants if they don't like the food while others go to the same place regularly. People leave the movies early if they can't endure watching it to the end any more and guess what that also happens at games of footy.

We need to accept that some people vote with their feet and that they aren't necessarily members for life.

Regarding the membership and the part it plays for the club, after something like 9 years of very solid profits surely we are past the 'club might go under' thought process in any membership discussion and I'm not saying that is your point.
Surely its time for our membership offer to represent decent value for money for our membership base rather than having a higher 'donation to the club' type theme?

I was recently talking to a well connected Hawks supporter former colleague of mine who despite a couple of lean years and a couple of more to come he's still massively onboard with the clubs direction because it's been clearly communicated to all of the members.
Perhaps there is some food for thought there for us.

We recruited like we were topping up for another finals effort and have come up short and without people having an understanding of why its happened it's understandable that it can create a level of anger and angst for some people.

I contribute a decent sum each year to my membership which of course is my choice. Over the last two years and obviously the two Covid years before that (which isn't the clubs fault) it just hasn't represented decent value from my perspective.
After writing to the club and detailing some concerns their response wasn't what I expected so after 19 years as a player sponsor I will be taking a different club membership next year.

There are thousands of our supporters, including many people from interstate and in the country regions, making charitable type donations to the club through their memberships and I wouldn't be critical or question their motives if they decide somewhere down the track to cut back or cease it.

I think there are some genuine reasons why we have fallen short on expectations this year and I wonder if the club should get on the front foot and at least engage the members.

[DOG GOD]

Our list is good enough to take 20-40 point leads. List not over rated at this point.

Our list is bad enough to lose after 20-40 point leads. List is over rated at this point.
So where do you see the issues to the above BT ?
Is it that our players lose focus ? We have no plan B or we can’t put it into practice, or our players are not conditioned enough (use a lot of petrol to get those leads and run out of legs)

[jeemak]

Ok, maybe you should listen to the 2 minutes of audio.

I also think you are lumping Cornes and King into the same basket assuming the both have the same narrative on the Dogs - which they do not.

He's been misrepresented by the byline in this instance but he's previously talked up our talent. I haven't mentioned Cornes and don't listen to much of what he says.

[bornadog]

Our list is good enough to take 20-40 point leads. List not over rated at this point.

Our list is bad enough to lose after 20-40 point leads. List is over rated at this point.

Our list is close, but needs a tweak, especially from the backline and transitioning forward. By tweak, I mean some better players, and that is hard to do. I want to go to draft and no more hasbeens from other clubs. This should also mean trading out some good players for picks and bringing in what we need.

Losses of 7 points to Suns, 12 to Pies, 2 to Swans, 5 to Giants and 3 to Hawks says we aren't far away from top 4.
However, you can't rely on having your best team on the park every week, so you need decent backups - we haven't got any.

[bulldogtragic]

So where do you see the issues to the above BT ?
Is it that our players lose focus ? We have no plan B or we can’t put it into practice, or our players are not conditioned enough (use a lot of petrol to get those leads and run out of legs)

I don’t know exactly. It feels like we are getting the “Rope a dope” treatment. We go out thrashing around putting points on the board, and then get pummeled by Ali to a loss.

For the non-boxing types:

The rope-a-dope is a boxing fighting technique in which one contender leans against the ropes of the boxing ring and draws non-injuring offensive punches, letting the opponent tire himself out. This gives the former the opportunity to then execute devastating offensive punches to help them win. The rope-a-dope is most famously associated with Muhammad Ali in his October 1974 Rumble in the Jungle match against world heavyweight champion George Foreman in Kinshasa, Zaire.

[GVGjr]

Our list is good enough to take 20-40 point leads. List not over rated at this point.

Our list is bad enough to lose after 20-40 point leads. List is over rated at this point.

This is the part that frustrates me. The easy observation is to blame the list when we lose but it's a lot more complex than that.

[bulldogtragic]

Our list is close, but needs a tweak, especially from the backline and transitioning forward. By tweak, I mean some better players, and that is hard to do. I want to go to draft and no more hasbeens from other clubs. This should also mean trading out some good players for picks and bringing in what we need.

Losses of 7 points to Suns, 12 to Pies, 2 to Swans, 5 to Giants and 3 to Hawks says we aren't far away from top 4.
However, you can't rely on having your best team on the park every week, so you need decent backups - we haven't got any.

Which good players make way to bring the talent in?

[bornadog]

Which good players make way to bring the talent in?

I knew you would ask me. :D

I would seriously consider someone like Bailey Dale and Bailey Smith, if we could get a first rounder. I know we need them but.

[bulldogtragic]

This is the part that frustrates me. The easy observation is to blame the list when we lose but it's a lot more complex than that.

Yep. I don’t think our problems are that simple. I wish it were. I think the cure is broad too.

[lemmon]

I do get the concerns with some of the levels of talent on our list, but the 22 that Colllingwood put out on the weekend had McStay and Mihocek playing key forward, an undersized Murphy and Billy Frampton playing key back and pretty 'honest' try-ers in Oleg Markov, John Noble, McCreery, Tom Mitchell, Taylor Adams and Lipinski.

Are we really that behind in talent in terms of the side we put out on the weekend?

[mjp]

I don?t know exactly. It feels like we are getting the ?Rope a dope? treatment. We go out thrashing around putting points on the board, and then get pummeled by Ali to a loss.


Maybe against the Giants and Swans.

The Hawks just didn't let us have the ball in q3. They owned it. We wanted to sag back defensively and let them inflict death by 1000 cuts. Yesterday - in q3 - we needed to:

1/. Acknowledge what was happening.
2/. Get an extra, or 2, or 3, or 4, or 5 or however many it took to the contest to actually GET THE BALL.
3/. When we get it, just take a moment. Look early, then look late. Don't look early then just say stuff it, kick to a contest. Let it develop.
4/. When Hawthorn got it - everyone needs to stick their elbow in the CHEST (not back) of their oppo and deny the leading lanes. And if you were on the fatside, restrict the width by standing OUTSIDE your man and not allowing them the spread us out. Fight through it.

I think we are doing everyone a dis-service by putting the Hawks game in the same boat as the others...even vs Collingwood when they kicked six in a row, they were 'on top' but not overwhelmingly dominant...yesterday we simply could not get the ball.

[bulldogtragic]

I knew you would ask me. :D

I would seriously consider someone like Bailey Dale and Bailey Smith, if we could get a first rounder. I know we need them but.

I tend to agree. This year it really needs to be a top 10 pick to avoid a Croft bid after pick shuffling/other bids. I can only see Smith, English or Naughton getting us that though.

[Grantysghost]

I knew you would ask me. :D

I would seriously consider someone like Bailey Dale and Bailey Smith, if we could get a first rounder. I know we need them but.

Throw Bailey Williams in there for the set.

[bornadog]

I tend to agree. This year it really needs to be a top 10 pick to avoid a Croft bid after pick shuffling/other bids. I can only see Smith, English or Naughton getting us that though.

English and Naughton are off limits for me.

[jeemak]

This is the part that frustrates me. The easy observation is to blame the list when we lose but it's a lot more complex than that.

It's the same with coaching. We're coached well enough to get leads, but apparently not well enough to keep/ capitalise on them.

[Grantysghost]

It's the same with coaching. We're coached well enough to get leads, but apparently not well enough to keep/ capitalise on them.

It's the eternal unknown question.

Average list great coach or great list average coach.

I think the former.

Only thing I wonder is Bevo goes to the well with the "themes" to motivate.

Does this remove the ability for the players to self motivate?

[bulldogtragic]

English and Naughton are off limits for me.

So Smith it is.

[bornadog]

So Smith it is.

I don't want to lose him, but for the sake of the team and the future, we need players in roles to plug gaps

[The bulldog tragician]

I do get the concerns with some of the levels of talent on our list, but the 22 that Colllingwood put out on the weekend had McStay and Mihocek playing key forward, an undersized Murphy and Billy Frampton playing key back and pretty 'honest' try-ers in Oleg Markov, John Noble, McCreery, Tom Mitchell, Taylor Adams and Lipinski.

Are we really that behind in talent in terms of the side we put out on the weekend?

Really good points, and look at some of the 2016 group for some guys that were limited, but such was the buy-in and commitment of the group - and the magic of the coaches at that point - that they could achieve so much.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't want to loser him, but for the sake of the team and the future, we need players in roles to plug gaps

Well, I tend to agree. If we can get a top 10 for him then I say do it. But Smith isn’t really playing like a guy who commands a top 10 pick unfortunately. But who knows if Geelong feel the need to trade big.

[Bulldog Joe]

English and Naughton are off limits for me.

I see Naughton as one of our major issues.

He has chances to win games but fails too often to take them.

If he really wants to play key forward I trade him.

[mjp]

Does this remove the ability for the players to self motivate?

I will maintain forever that you can't coach effort.

Not every loss is on the players - coaching (inc selection, game-plan, oppo planning etc) 100% play a part. To me, there were certainly elements in previous losses where you could point at the coaches - as I have been saying though, it's bloody hard to make changes when earlier in the game everything was humming along and it really should just be a matter of 'reset guys'...but clearly at times more forceful intervention needed to occur.

vs Hawthorn though, we came out after half time and got smacked around the ball and smacked outside the game. What is the coach actually supposed to do about that? You can move all the magnets you like but if you can't get the ball...

Our squad isn't perfect but no doubt our results should be better...we have some really challenging decisions to work through as the match-day outcomes are confusing...30 point leads into 6 point losses? Repeatedly?

It really does 'feel' like it's between the ears of the players...but is it between the ears of the coaching as well? Is there a disconnect between what the coach is saying and what the players are hearing? Cos there is sure as hell a difference between what he is saying and what they are doing...unless he is telling them not to worry about the ball - just run around and have fun...

[GVGjr]

I do get the concerns with some of the levels of talent on our list, but the 22 that Colllingwood put out on the weekend had McStay and Mihocek playing key forward, an undersized Murphy and Billy Frampton playing key back and pretty 'honest' try-ers in Oleg Markov, John Noble, McCreery, Tom Mitchell, Taylor Adams and Lipinski.

Are we really that behind in talent in terms of the side we put out on the weekend?

I don't think the Pies list is anything special and they even dole out about 500K a year for other clubs to absorb some poor contract positions they put themselves in. What they do have is a game plan that is standing up, electric pace, buy in from all of their players, ageing stars who play within their limits and a number of role players who sacrifice their game each week.

On a player to player basis our list more than sticks up favorably against them but we keep dropping close games when the pressure is on compared to their self belief they can chase down any lead.

[AshMac]

Can annyone explain to me why we didn?t put someone on Newcombe? They nullified Bont for the game (by his standards) and Libba whilst he was on the ground. I get it might not work - I don?t get why we never try it.

Also - our fitness coach has got to go. Our ability to run out 4 quarters in embarrassing.

Just did the ladder predictor and have us 9th playing Carlton. Intensity up and I don?t see where our lift comes from.

[DOG GOD]

Can annyone explain to me why we didn?t put someone on Newcombe? They nullified Bont for the game (by his standards) and Libba whilst he was on the ground. I get it might not work - I don?t get why we never try it.

Also - our fitness coach has got to go. Our ability to run out 4 quarters in embarrassing.

Just did the ladder predictor and have us 9th playing Carlton. Intensity up and I don?t see where our lift comes from.
Agree 100%. Our player conditioning is shocking.
Bevo doesn’t tag. I think it’s really that simple, unfortunately.

[bornadog]

I see Naughton as one of our major issues.

He has chances to win games but fails too often to take them.

If he really wants to play key forward I trade him.

40 goals and 19 assists at 58% accuracy

[bornadog]

Can annyone explain to me why we didn?t put someone on Newcombe? They nullified Bont for the game (by his standards) and Libba whilst he was on the ground. I get it might not work - I don?t get why we never try it.

Also - our fitness coach has got to go. Our ability to run out 4 quarters in embarrassing.

Just did the ladder predictor and have us 9th playing Carlton. Intensity up and I don?t see where our lift comes from.

9th won't get us finals :D (typo or)

[EasternWest]

Can annyone explain to me why we didn?t put someone on Newcombe? They nullified Bont for the game (by his standards) and Libba whilst he was on the ground. I get it might not work - I don?t get why we never try it.

Like it's actually maddening. At the very least if you run with a guy that's brought his own ball, logically then you're at least in with a chance to be near the ball and thus impact our chance to get it.

I'm not on the sack Beveridge train, but his absolute refusal to not do anything about players that are starching us, over and over and over again, is making me question my faith.

[josie]

I know Naughton and Lobb did not kick gettable goals. I think most of our problem stemmed from 3rd qtr & start if 4th qtr when our intensity was shocking. If you cannot gain or win back possession you don’t have enough kicks at goal to make up for the inevitable inaccuracies. Even the best set shots like Hawkins, Cameron, Riewoldt miss sodas.

Still think we need a goal kicking coach though!! And a running and tackling one….

[josie]

Yep, regarding tagging a player that is ripping us apart, when it?s a big contributor to losing a game I don?t care if it?s not sportsmanlike or whatever the reason is Bevo doesn?t tag. Enough already. He needs to be more flexible and less (imo) pig headed.

[Grantysghost]

Like it's actually maddening. At the very least if you run with a guy that's brought his own ball, logically then you're at least in with a chance to be near the ball and thus impact our chance to get it.

I'm not on the sack Beveridge train, but his absolute refusal to not do anything about players that are starching us, over and over and over again, is making me question my faith.

Smith would have been the perfect guy to run with him.

[bulldogtragic]

40 goals and 19 assists at 58% accuracy

So close to what Rory Lobb did last year. But reporting is it will cost us close to twice the money as Rory to keep Naughton. Currently Naughton is ranked 22nd in the comp for goal per game, average. Mostly because he misses sodas, despite years of training and practising forward skills.

Where’s the great ROI?

[EasternWest]

Smith would have been the perfect guy to run with him.

GG, you or I or anyone would have been enough. Just someone actually DO something about it.

[jeemak]

So close to what Rory Lobb did last year. But reporting is it will cost us close to twice the money as Rory to keep Naughton. Currently Naughton is ranked 22nd in the comp for goal per game, average. Mostly because he misses sodas, despite years of training and practising forward skills.

Where’s the great ROI?

Using averages a bit cute. He's ranked 12th for goals kicked.

That doesn't mean he should be paid $1M per year though.

[Mofra]

Can annyone explain to me why we didn?t put someone on Newcombe?
We did - Treloar in the second half.

The problem being it was 30 minutes too late, and it was the wrong player to go to him.