Sharp Axes

[bulldogtragic]

Using averages a bit cute. He's ranked 12th for goals kicked.

That doesn't mean he should be paid $1M per year though.

Cute? Other players with less games played have kicked the same or only slightly less. It’s a fair contrast.

But we agree, he shouldn’t be paid $1M+ to average less than 2 goals a game. That’s modern day Carey money and despite his marking, he’s not Carey.

[Grantysghost]

We did - Treloar in the second half.

The problem being it was 30 minutes too late, and it was the wrong player to go to him.

I've never seen him do a run with.

That's a bad coaching decision IMO.

[jeemak]

Cute? Other players with less games played have kicked the same or only slightly less. It’s a fair contrast.

But we agree, he shouldn’t be paid $1M+ to average less than 2 goals a game. That’s modern day Carey money and despite his marking, he’s not Carey.

Yes, cute! I accuse you of being such to articulate a point on purpose! :)

To me the highest paid forwards can convert and also use their feet to great advantage in general play. Aaron can't do that and his compensation should align with that. That doesn't mean get rid of him, but also it doesn't mean overpay.

[bulldogtragic]

Yes, cute! I accuse you of being such to articulate a point on purpose! :)

To me the highest paid forwards can convert and also use their feet to great advantage in general play. Aaron can't do that and his compensation should align with that. That doesn't mean get rid of him, but also it doesn't mean overpay.

Sir, for attacking my honour, you have been challenged to a duel. Pistols at dawn.

If I sleep in, please just shoot yourself in the arms and say I did it. I’ll back you up.

[azabob]

Sir, for attacking my honour, you have been challenged to a duel. Pistols at dawn.

If I sleep in, please just shoot yourself in the arms and say I did it. I’ll back you up.

Nets or nothing. You know this.

[bulldogtragic]

Nets or nothing. You know this.

Nothing. I can’t be ****ed talking about Naughtons garbage goal kicking and huge salary expectations any more. Only the bulldogs would draft the best defender in a draft, turn him into a forward who can’t kick simple goals and then pay him millions as games are lost in part off his boot. He won’t be moved back. So let’s just pay him whatever. High five his big marks and lament him shanking easy shots until he retires. I’m over him and his average of 1.9 goals game - 22nd in the league. At $1.1M that’s $22,000 a goal if he hits 50 a season. That’s crazy. But yeah for us.

[bornadog]

Nothing. I can’t be ****ed talking about Naughtons garbage goal kicking and huge salary expectations any more. Only the bulldogs would draft the best defender in a draft, turn him into a forward who can’t kick simple goals and then pay him millions as games are lost in part off his boot. He won’t be moved back. So let’s just pay him whatever. High five his big marks and lament him shanking easy shots until he retires. I’m over him and his average of 1.9 goals game - 22nd in the league. At $1.1M that’s $22,000 a goal if he hits 50 a season. That’s crazy. But yeah for us.

Naughton has improved his goal kicking this year and is sitting at 57% accuracy, but he has also contributed 19 goal assist along with his 40 goals.

[bulldogtragic]

Naughton has improved his goal kicking this year and is sitting at 57% accuracy, but he has also contributed 19 goal assist along with his 40 goals.

Missed three yesterday in a half goal loss. As I say, $1.1M a season is $22,000 a goal for a 50 goal season.

Not worth paying $22,000 per goal kicked.

[bornadog]

Missed three yesterday in a half goal loss. As I say, $1.1M a season is $22,000 a goal for a 50 goal season.

Not worth paying $22,000 per goal kicked.

Where does $1.1m come from

[bulldogtragic]

Where does $1.1m come from

The expected salary he can demand on the open market. Ralphy says he’s in circa $850,00 now. A pay rise and CBA rise puts him at least around $1.1M. Someone like a WCE could conceivably offer more. If he stays for cheap, that’d be still $1M or around $20,000 a goal. Which isn’t that cheap. Guys on that cash need to win games off their own boot multiple times a year (ie Bont). He doesn’t do that nearly enough, as evidenced in the weekend.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Naughton has improved his goal kicking this year and is sitting at 57% accuracy, but he has also contributed 19 goal assist along with his 40 goals.
In a must win game on Sunday our 3 main forwards in Naughton Ugle Hagen and in particular Weightman were
virtually non existent. There has been too much reliance on too few players such as Libba Bont and Treloar.
With Libba out of the match early apart from Bont we were very poor in our midfield normally our greatest strength.

[Scorlibo]

Moving Naughton to CHB will surely come into considerations this pre-season. With Jamarra coming along nicely, Lobb starting to show some form and Darcy not far off, it makes a lot more sense than it did this time last year, and it certainly doesn't make sense in-season.

Personally I think he's probably a better forward than defender but can see the merit in the shift given our personnel woes down back.

His ground level pressure and assists up forward are hugely underrated, he does more in this regard than most other key forwards. Having said that, I'll admit that his conversion is a big concern. Might be going at reasonable raw accuracy but he gets much better looks than most. Champion Data have highlighted him multiple times over the last couple of years as the worst shot on goal in the league based on expectation.

More broadly I'm a bit concerned about key position bloat on the list. Bruce, Gardner, Keath and O'Brien are all guys that wouldn't be getting a game elsewhere. Up forward we have a log jam with Darcy and Khamis not getting games, and Croft about to arrive. It might mean some tough decisions but we need to cut the fat and opt for quality over quantity. That we're talking about shifting Naughton back while we already have 7 key defenders on the list says it all really.

[JanLorMill]

I will maintain forever that you can't coach effort.

Is motivating players coaching them? That goes hand in hand with effort.

[Danjul]

In a must win game on Sunday our 3 main forwards in Naughton Ugle Hagen and in particular Weightman were
virtually non existent. There has been too much reliance on too few players such as Libba Bont and Treloar.
With Libba out of the match early apart from Bont we were very poor in our midfield normally our greatest strength.

Interestingly, 2 games earlier we had Naughton, Weightman, JUH and Lobb combine for the spectacular total of 2 goals. It was close to a dress rehearsal for Sunday. Oh wait, they actually improved. But we still lost by less than a goal.

[mjp]

Is motivating players coaching them? That goes hand in hand with effort.

When it is 10 minutes into the 3rd quarter, no player is thinking about the story the coach told them before the game about eskimos and seals (sic). What they are doing is:

1/. Supporting their team-mates and helping make them better.
2/. Representing themselves with pride/fear of failure.

You don't coach effort. You coach skills, gameplan and provide the group with a unified purpose. Effort comes from within. If you think otherwise you're kidding yourself.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Moving Naughton to CHB will surely come into considerations this pre-season. With Jamarra coming along nicely, Lobb starting to show some form and Darcy not far off, it makes a lot more sense than it did this time last year, and it certainly doesn't make sense in-season.

Personally I think he's probably a better forward than defender but can see the merit in the shift given our personnel woes down back.

His ground level pressure and assists up forward are hugely underrated, he does more in this regard than most other key forwards. Having said that, I'll admit that his conversion is a big concern. Might be going at reasonable raw accuracy but he gets much better looks than most. Champion Data have highlighted him multiple times over the last couple of years as the worst shot on goal in the league based on expectation.

More broadly I'm a bit concerned about key position bloat on the list. Bruce, Gardner, Keath and O'Brien are all guys that wouldn't be getting a game elsewhere. Up forward we have a log jam with Darcy and Khamis not getting games, and Croft about to arrive. It might mean some tough decisions but we need to cut the fat and opt for quality over quantity. That we're talking about shifting Naughton back while we already have 7 key defenders on the list says it all really.
With the taller players we are recruiting you have to wonder whether our recruitment has the right balance.
There is a distinct lack of quality quick small players. The exceptions being Treloar, Richards and Dale which simply isn’t enough.
With the more recent recruitment of Darcy, Ugle Hagen Lobb and soon Croft, you do have to believe that players like Keath Gardner Oliver and Bruce will become surplus to our future needs, given the requirement of the urgent need of more quicker classy smaller players.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I didn't listen to the hot take on twitter, just read the following - David King is struggling to work out what the problem at the Western Bulldogs is given their list talent.

It's a narrative that he's been pushing and if he seriously can't understand it then he's not as clever as he thinks he is because there's inadequacies/ imbalances across all of the lines that are evident with a rudimentary level of scrutiny. Now it's either incompetence or a ploy, possibly both.

I actually tend to agree with you on the list, which is why I really want to blow it up, but if you're going after David King then surely you need to place the same level of anger and frustration with Bevo and the decision makers at the club? They're the ones who recruited two 30-year olds because they thought we had a list to contend and said as much at the beginning of the year.

I think many of the posts in this thread over the last day or so are very accurate. Blame is almost equally shared by coaches, administrators and players and it's why we're in no mans land / such a difficult decision.

I fear if we aren't decisive and keep trying to have our cake and eat it too by 'topping up' with bit part players and never addressing the real issues which may simply be unsolvable, then we're condemning ourselves to years of middling performances.

Sacking Bevo alone won't help, doing nothing won't help. It needs to be significant IMO.

[jeemak]

I actually tend to agree with you on the list, which is why I really want to blow it up, but if you're going after David King then surely you need to place the same level of anger and frustration with Bevo and the decision makers at the club? They're the ones who recruited two 30-year olds because they thought we had a list to contend and said as much at the beginning of the year.

I think many of the posts in this thread over the last day or so are very accurate. Blame is almost equally shared by coaches, administrators and players and it's why we're in no mans land / such a difficult decision.

I fear if we aren't decisive and keep trying to have our cake and eat it too by 'topping up' with bit part players and never addressing the real issues which may simply be unsolvable, then we're condemning ourselves to years of middling performances.

Sacking Bevo alone won't help, doing nothing won't help. It needs to be significant IMO.

What would the world look like if we didn't recruit Jones and kept playing mids as second rucks? The age of these guys is irrelevant if they were the only better options than the ones we had.

I am angry at Bevo, and I am angry at Grant, Power and anyone else at the club that has allowed us to find ourselves in this state of affairs. But that shouldn't be conflated with being angry at ignorant megaphone wielding dickheads who sprout shit at an audience for cheap clicks. People who do or at least should know better but pretend they don't and operate in the media deserve derision. They're literally the ones dumbing down society and ruining any chance of balanced discourse - in fact I could go on for days about how much I hate their cheap seat bullshit.

I mean **** them. They get up in the morning and heap shit on people knowing full well they're publicly only telling a part of a story just so they can generate pressure on people to help drive a commercial outcome. Imagine your job was to be a **** every day? You'd be able to justify it as entertainment I guess, if that made you feel better whilst people worry about losing their jobs.

[FrediKanoute]

How was Freo?

Where did you go? Sure was a beautiful day!!

Was a lovely Winters day! Went to the Freo prison, wandered past the Freo Oval and peered in - Sth Freo v West Perth. Wandered through the markets, had lunch and visited the Maritime Museum. All in all a full day. Sunshine was fabulous.

[EasternWest]

But that shouldn't be conflated with being angry at ignorant megaphone wielding dickheads who sprout shit at an audience for cheap clicks. People who do or at least should know better but pretend they don't and operate in the media deserve derision. They're literally the ones dumbing down society and ruining any chance of balanced discourse - in fact I could go on for days about how much I hate their cheap seat bullshit.

I mean **** them. They get up in the morning and heap shit on people knowing full well they're publicly only telling a part of a story just so they can generate pressure on people to help drive a commercial outcome. Imagine your job was to be a **** every day? You'd be able to justify it as entertainment I guess, if that made you feel better whilst people worry about losing their jobs.

Testify.

At some point this stopped being about footy, and I don't want to sidetrack any more than I'm already starting to but, let's warm up the guillotine comrades.

[GVGjr]

When it is 10 minutes into the 3rd quarter, no player is thinking about the story the coach told them before the game about eskimos and seals (sic). What they are doing is:

1/. Supporting their team-mates and helping make them better.
2/. Representing themselves with pride/fear of failure.

You don't coach effort. You coach skills, gameplan and provide the group with a unified purpose. Effort comes from within. If you think otherwise you're kidding yourself.

But can coaches accept less than ideal levels of effort and in a way endorse it?

[anfo27]

What was hard to accept yesterday was being bullied by a team sitting in the bottom 3. A younger team who had nothing to play for were physically harder at the contest than a team playing for a finals spot. Yeah we were up at quarter time but only because the hawks fumbled their way to a quarter time deficit.

It feels like I've ben watching this garbage for years. Yeah, we look good when we get the game on our terms but as soon as we don't we go to water. Other than libba & bont we are terrible at tackling. We are just not physically tough. We are too easy to play against.

I'm sick of hearing we don't have the talent or we're over rated. Teams don't win flags because they have the most talent, otherwise GWS would have 4 or 5 by now. Flags are won by which coaching group can get the best out of the lists they have. For the last 2 years the bulldogs coaching group would get an F & detention. Attitude reflects leadership. I'm not in the club, so i have no idea but I can see what they produce on the field. I see players who don't play for each other, they DO NOT buy in to whatever the style we are wanting to play.
Look at the blues. Looked hopeless against us. Now they have buy in & they look completely different from the team we beat. If we had buy in from our group & still had issues, then you can say the list is over rated or not good enough or whatever.

Happy to see a structure where Bevo is out of the coaches box & we actually get ACs that can complement Luke cause at the moment Lukes weaknesses as a coach have been laying bear for the football world to see for the last 2 years & its been a shit show!
He has given us all what we never thought we'd ever experience & this is how the club supports him? Disgraceful!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

What would the world look like if we didn't recruit Jones and kept playing mids as second rucks? The age of these guys is irrelevant if they were the only better options than the ones we had.

I am angry at Bevo, and I am angry at Grant, Power and anyone else at the club that has allowed us to find ourselves in this state of affairs. But that shouldn't be conflated with being angry at ignorant megaphone wielding dickheads who sprout shit at an audience for cheap clicks. People who do or at least should know better but pretend they don't and operate in the media deserve derision. They're literally the ones dumbing down society and ruining any chance of balanced discourse - in fact I could go on for days about how much I hate their cheap seat bullshit.

I mean **** them. They get up in the morning and heap shit on people knowing full well they're publicly only telling a part of a story just so they can generate pressure on people to help drive a commercial outcome. Imagine your job was to be a **** every day? You'd be able to justify it as entertainment I guess, if that made you feel better whilst people worry about losing their jobs.

Preach brother.

It's why I don't actually watch any footy related shows or even listen to any footy related radio anymore.

Having two kids also has something to do with it ;)

[Sedat]

King is way worse as he actually thinks he knows what he is talking about, whereas Kane is very aware of his method of attention seeking.
It's easy to attack the scribes who are over-rating our list, but our club has put it on record that we are very much in the premiership window and have been for a few seasons. If we are going to hold King and Cornes accountable, then we have to do the same internally.

[Sedat]

This is the part that frustrates me. The easy observation is to blame the list when we lose but it's a lot more complex than that.
We rebuilt and refreshed the list after our poor 2017, and our trajectory was steadily climbing and going to script from 2018 to 2021. Honestly, I believe our total capitulation in the last 40 minutes of the 2021 GF has psychologically destroyed the core senior list and possibly even the coaching group. We have only tinkered with the list since 2020 and recruited for the now, and our list management has been conservative since then because internally we believed we had everything in place to contend for a number of years.

[jeemak]

We rebuilt and refreshed the list after our poor 2017, and our trajectory was steadily climbing and going to script from 2018 to 2021. Honestly, I believe our total capitulation in the last 40 minutes of the 2021 GF has psychologically destroyed the core senior list and possibly even the coaching group. We have only tinkered with the list since 2020 and recruited for the now, and our list management has been conservative since then because internally we believed we had everything in place to contend for a number of years.

There was also a balance of who we had to pay today to keep things together, whilst also being really careful about who we could pay to come and play for us.

We haven't seen it this year however, I think Lobb and Jones will be seen as the right calls. Second rucks are expensive and intercepting defenders are even more so in today's game. Where we've failed with our list management has been done to death, but identifying role players who are solid or better than solid has been an issue for us.

The draft for tomorrow situation hasn't helped us. Aza never mentions it but we've really starved the development of the list due to landing what are supposed to be generational talls. If that doesn't pay off we're truly screwed.

You might be right that psychologically the 2021 GF did us over, however, it's not like that was the day we started getting scored against in succession or out the back or dropping games we should have won. This playing and coaching group have had that in them for years.

[1eyedog]

We rebuilt and refreshed the list after our poor 2017, and our trajectory was steadily climbing and going to script from 2018 to 2021. Honestly, I believe our total capitulation in the last 40 minutes of the 2021 GF has psychologically destroyed the core senior list and possibly even the coaching group. We have only tinkered with the list since 2020 and recruited for the now, and our list management has been conservative since then because internally we believed we had everything in place to contend for a number of years.

To be fair though we had to make sacifices to secure Jamarra and Darcy during this time.

Still, we haven't cut deep enough re. our outgoings which has been a long-term trend of ours.

[azabob]

There was also a balance of who we had to pay today to keep things together, whilst also being really careful about who we could pay to come and play for us.

We haven't seen it this year however, I think Lobb and Jones will be seen as the right calls. Second rucks are expensive and intercepting defenders are even more so in today's game. Where we've failed with our list management has been done to death, but identifying role players who are solid or better than solid has been an issue for us.

The draft for tomorrow situation hasn't helped us. Aza never mentions it but we've really starved the development of the list due to landing what are supposed to be generational talls. If that doesn't pay off we're truly screwed.

You might be right that psychologically the 2021 GF did us over, however, it's not like that was the day we started getting scored against in succession or out the back or dropping games we should have won. This playing and coaching group have had that in them for years.

Here I was thinking I was on everyone's mute list.

[Grantysghost]

It's easy to attack the scribes who are over-rating our list, but our club has put it on record that we are very much in the premiership window and have been for a few seasons. If we are going to hold King and Cornes accountable, then we have to do the same internally.

Theyre all click bait sound bite generation machines.

The ABC has some decent analysts who research, commercial stations are about headline creating tweet generation that do exactly what they're doing in here...
Stirring the pot with no substance.

As for the club if we don't make finals I'll be very disappointed.

[MrMahatma]

Here I was thinking I was on everyone's mute list.

There's a mute option!?!

[azabob]

There's a mute option!?!

Sorry, i can't see this post, its just blank ;)

[mjp]

But can coaches accept less than ideal levels of effort and in a way endorse it?

Nope. When effort isn't at the required level you hold the individuals accountable without prejudice.

[Vred]

I have a feeling we're about to have a 2014-15 like off season...

[bulldogtragic]

I have a feeling we're about to have a 2014-15 like off season...

What have you heard? Fess up! :D

[Vred]

What have you heard? Fess up! :D

Nothing I want to put my name to, but a thread has popped up on BigFooty called ''Future of the club''

Even if 50% of it is on the money, it's gonna be a wild ride.

[bulldogtragic]

Nothing I want to put my name to, but a thread has popped up on BigFooty called ''Future of the club''

Even if 50% of it is on the money, it's gonna be a wild ride.

On that I checked BF for the first time in about 15 years. Is the poster reliable?

[Vred]

On that I checked BF for the first time in about 15 years. Is the poster reliable?

According to most all the posters there, yes. I only read BF when I'm bored at work, I don't even have an account, but I've seen a few of his posts come true (vitaltread and smileyboy also have some very good information from time to time).

[bulldogtragic]

According to most all the posters there, yes. I only read BF when I'm bored at work, I don't even have an account, but I've seen a few of his posts come true (vitaltread and smileyboy also have some very good information from time to time).

Well if the Gordon & Bont stuff is real, in particular, then there might be interesting times ahead.

[SonofScray]

Well if the Gordon & Bont stuff is real, in particular, then there might be interesting times ahead.

It reads a bit melodramatic, but it isn’t beyond the realm of possibility.

The Bont aspect, I wish we weren’t putting him in that scenario if true. That’s Grant and Bains failing.

[bornadog]

I have a feeling we're about to have a 2014-15 like off season...

Just a reminder we won 7 games in 2014 and had a percentage of 82%.

Pretty sure things are different now

[bulldogtragic]

It reads a bit melodramatic, but it isn’t beyond the realm of possibility.

The Bont aspect, I wish we weren’t putting him in that scenario if true. That’s Grant and Bains failing.

Grain of salt at this point, but if true points at some internal ructions ahead.

[G-Mo77]

Interesting read on BF.

There have been murmurs of Bont and Bevo not seeing eye to eye before. Hmmm.

[bornadog]

Interesting read on BF.

There have been murmurs of Bont and Bevo not seeing eye to eye before. Hmmm.

When?

[Hot_Doggies]

Craziest thing in that Big Footy post is ‘the club thinks we are in the premiership window’!

We have a promising forward line and Bont.

We have three midfielders who are considered ‘A grade’ -Treloar, Macrae and Libba who basically play the same role and are all one paced and nearing the end. I don’t see how we can compete with all those three in the side.

We are in the perfect spot for a mini rebuild via the draft.

[angelopetraglia]

Here is the Big Footy post for those interested:

Instead of hijacking several other threads and making them off topic probably best to consolidate information into one as it has a bit of a broader spectrum than ''Do we trust Bevo'' and ''what are the media saying?''

Ill break this down into two categories and I'll keep it updated as much as I can.

More concrete (Via various different sources, both inside and outside the club, i trust it enough to put it here)

-Up until about a month ago, KWW/Ameet/board were all very much ''Bevo has the safest job in football''. The decision to extend Luke's contract another 2 years was a unanimous decision by the board, president and CEO, no one thought it would recieve the backlash that it did, as I'm told some members were even ''surprised'' how the media was harping on about ''why sign him now''..
-We did do an internal review last year headed up by Ameet but by all reports it was fairly half-assed and the conclusion was ''more help for Beveridge''
-Losses to Sydney, GWS and Hawks have started to change the tune of some of our stead-fast board members
-David Smorgan has started airing his concerns to old friends at the club
-Peter Gordon earlier in the year scoffed publicly (well, at a Gordon Legal party) about how poorly the Dogs are doing / how disappointed he is with how the club is being run / doesn't think Bevo is the right man for the job anymore - This was witnessed by a few people including a current sitting board member, this got back to Bevo and others at the club and got some noses very out of joint
-Change at both coaching and board level was going to happen at the end of this season regardless of season outcome, this was a conclusion made early in the season.
-After Hawks loss PG has sent off some very nasty messages to a number of higher ups at the club airing his disgust and questioning ''what is going on at his beloved Dogs?''
-Bont was ''inconsolable'' and ''The most pissed off anyone has seen him'' after the Hawks loss, had a 1:1 meeting with Ameet not long after the loss.
-Ameet's tune about Bevo has seemingly changed over night.
-Ameet (with backing of the board) was the one to instigate the firing of Rohan Smith. Rohan doesn't have as bad of health issues as Bevo and co have made out, he can fully function day to day. He was fired over text message, something I strongly, strongly disagree with. I cannot say if Rohan wanted to continue on coaching / Bevo wanted him to stay on (Smiley Boy will have the insight here)
-The plan before the loss to the Hawks was to completely clean our assistant coaching ranks and bring in the best we can, even going over soft cap to do so just to stabilize the ship and get us where we want to be (the club strongly believes we are in the window).
-We would have to pay out Luke's entire contract if we decided to get rid of him early, currently that's until the end of 2025.

Less Concrete

-Since the Hawks loss, Ameet is gunning to also replace Luke but doesn't have the support to do it
-Talk of a board spill due to some Beveridge die-hards who want to keep the status-quo, possibly spearheaded by an old President-
-Mat Inness will be moved on at the end of the season
-Lade will also be leaving during this off season, big personality clash with Bevo, his contracted for one more year but if he finds something elsewhere the club won't stand in his way.
-Webb is going back to WA
-If the above two things happen, our only remaining assistant coach is Matty S, the memes write themselves
-Bevo's contracted money is finally thinning out allowing us more cash to throw at assistant coaches (Was front loaded)
-Chris Grant is selling the house his lived in for the last 400 years, might be moving on??? (pure speculation)-
-We've asked Leon Cameron (again) to come on as an assistant
-We've asked Stewy Dew to come on as an assistant

I'll keep this updated as I get information sent my way. A week is a long time in football, things can change farking quickly.

[Grantysghost]

Hopefully all is well with our legendary presidents.

[azabob]

Craziest thing in that Big Footy post is ?the club thinks we are in the premiership window?!

We have a promising forward line and Bont.

We have three midfielders who are considered ?A grade? -Treloar, Macrae and Libba who basically play the same role and are all one paced and nearing the end. I don?t see how we can compete with all those three in the side.

We are in the perfect spot for a mini rebuild via the draft.

Except for the lack of draft capital in 2023. Unless the club passes on Croft.

[Danjul]

Craziest thing in that Big Footy post is ?the club thinks we are in the premiership window?!

We have a promising forward line and Bont.

We have three midfielders who are considered ?A grade? -Treloar, Macrae and Libba who basically play the same role and are all one paced and nearing the end. I don?t see how we can compete with all those three in the side.

We are in the perfect spot for a mini rebuild via the draft.

They are the cause of our woes. The team has struggled to kick winning scores, under a dozen goals in most of the games. Second lowest ..points for.. of the first dozen teams on the ladder. Just cannot deliver when needed.

[bornadog]

Peter Gordon is more discrete than what is reported by the poster - so I call BS on that one.

[Bulldog4life]

When?

I haven't heard a peep about Marcus and Luke not getting along. I call BS.

[Hot_Doggies]

They are the cause of our woes. The team has struggled to kick winning scores, under a dozen goals in most of the games. Second lowest ..points for.. of the first dozen teams on the ladder. Just cannot deliver when needed.

Put two/three quick and skilful mids in our team and watch how well the forward line functions.

[jeemak]

Put two/three quick and skilful mids in our team and watch how well the forward line functions.

Put a genuine interceptor into our team and watch how much quicker our mids look and how well the forward line functions.

[Critter]

Except for the lack of draft capital in 2023. Unless the club passes on Croft.
Unfortunately, passing on Croft is increasingly appearing our only option. Midfield stocks are desperately low

[DOG GOD]

They are the cause of our woes. The team has struggled to kick winning scores, under a dozen goals in most of the games. Second lowest ..points for.. of the first dozen teams on the ladder. Just cannot deliver when needed.

Naughton, Jamarra and Weightman all look better when they are leading out. Unfortunately, 90% of the time they are all flying for the same ball after being bombed in by the mids.

[Bullies]

Put two/three quick and skilful mids in our team and watch how well the forward line functions.Proof was last week against Richmond. Their mids are slower than ours and we were abe to move it so quickly to the forwards who had a day out. Not so against mids who are quick and break our tackles.

[Virgin-Dog]

On that I checked BF for the first time in about 15 years. Is the poster reliable?
Opinions will differ on who is a genuine ITK, but that poster has quite literally never posted an original piece of intel that is later proved correct, outside of things that could be considered a dart throw. Everything they share is essentially consolidating other rumours, a variation of someone else's inside info that "they also heard from their source", or vague guesswork that is impossible to disprove. No offence to the person who very well might get inside info for all we know, but they're yet to post a piece of inside information that proves them at all. Smiley Boy and cleveland are among the very few people I've seen post shit that more or less proves they actually do get something

[bornadog]

Opinions will differ on who is a genuine ITK, but that poster has quite literally never posted an original piece of intel that is later proved correct, outside of things that could be considered a dart throw. Everything they share is essentially consolidating other rumours, a variation of someone else's inside info that "they also heard from their source", or vague guesswork that is impossible to disprove. No offence to the person who very well might get inside info for all we know, but they're yet to post a piece of inside information that proves them at all. Smiley Boy and cleveland are among the very few people I've seen post shit that more of less proves they actually do get something

If you had insider information like that, you wouldn't post it on a public forum. For starters the person telling you the information (if an insider), would ask for discretion.

[Virgin-Dog]

If you had insider information like that, you wouldn't post it on a public forum. For starters the person telling you the information (if an insider), would ask for discretion.
Yeah this whole concept of sharing some of these things always baffled me. I've been told some pretty crazy shit in the past about things that have happened at the Dogs (specifically our AFLW side) and Freo (relating to their administration), but wouldn't dare post it publicly. I can only imagine the shitstorm that would cause for those who leaked the information, not to mention it just seems weird to post such serious things publicly at risk of it being seen by the person who told me, or at risk of it being at all untrue.

Posting things like "player X is re-signing soon" or "player Y is likely to be traded to us" is pretty harmless stuff so makes sense to see it shared. Some of the stuff I've been seeing especially relating to Gordon is just... unbelievable

[mjp]

If you had insider information like that, you wouldn't post it on a public forum. For starters the person telling you the information (if an insider), would ask for discretion.

100%.

I don't know club stuff but I do KNOW draft staff and I would basically NEVER say a word...

Thought there was one time in 2021 when I prob said something I shouldn't of that 'came true'...

If you are enough in the know to 'KNOW', then you KNOW you shouldn't post it.

[bornadog]

Yeah this whole concept of sharing some of these things always baffled me. I've been told some pretty crazy shit in the past about things that have happened at the Dogs (specifically our AFLW side) and Freo (relating to their administration), but wouldn't dare post it publicly. I can only imagine the shitstorm that would cause for those who leaked the information, not to mention it just seems weird to post such serious things publicly at risk of it being seen by the person who told me, or at risk of it being at all untrue.

Posting things like "player X is re-signing soon" or "player Y is likely to be traded to us" is pretty harmless stuff so makes sense to see it shared. Some of the stuff I've been seeing especially relating to Gordon is just... unbelievable

Same, I am told stuff but told to not say anything and I stick to that. I posted earlier the Peter is discrete and would not be carrying on at a function about the club. I know for a fact that since stepping down, he has not been involved at the club and prefers KWW to handle things.

[Sedat]

Opinions will differ on who is a genuine ITK, but that poster has quite literally never posted an original piece of intel that is later proved correct, outside of things that could be considered a dart throw. Everything they share is essentially consolidating other rumours, a variation of someone else's inside info that "they also heard from their source", or vague guesswork that is impossible to disprove. No offence to the person who very well might get inside info for all we know, but they're yet to post a piece of inside information that proves them at all. Smiley Boy and cleveland are among the very few people I've seen post shit that more or less proves they actually do get something
At least we know Caro has an active BF account

[Mofra]

I do know we are active in the assistant coaching space and have approached more than three people (heard about those two named as well).

[bornadog]

I do know we are active in the assistant coaching space and have approached more than three people (heard about those two named as well).

Hopefully we can get some decent help.

[SonofScray]

I do know we are active in the assistant coaching space and have approached more than three people (heard about those two named as well).

If I am Dew or Cameron and I wanted back in, it’s a no brained. Senior interim role by R5 2024

[Grantysghost]

Exactly if you know you don't grand stand and tell bloody big footy!
I mean I would never tell anyone I fixed Jamarra's goal kicking you just don't do that ;)

[Boots]

That BF thread boils down to -

1) Bevo gone
2) board spill
3) new assistants

Most likely seems #3 given Smith is out, and rumours about Lade (which seem to be just rumours). Is that about the size of it?

[SonofScray]

That BF thread boils down to -

1) Bevo gone
2) board spill
3) new assistants

Most likely seems #3 given Smith is out, and rumours about Lade (which seem to be just rumours). Is that about the size of it?

Yeah, lots of window dressing but that’s the gist. Smoke and fire and all that, but it does read as scuttlebutt only IMO.

[1eyedog]

It reads a bit melodramatic, but it isn?t beyond the realm of possibility.

The Bont aspect, I wish we weren?t putting him in that scenario if true. That?s Grant and Bains failing.

If Bont walks in and says Bevo has to go Bevo is gone.

[G-Mo77]

Yeah, lots of window dressing but that’s the gist. Smoke and fire and all that, but it does read as scuttlebutt only IMO.

The way this team has played shows there might be a bit going on off field and it wouldn't surprise me if there is a bit of a rift between player and coach or coach and coaches. Of course that is speculation on my behalf. I'm not going to cover my eyes and ears and pretend nothing is going on, something does seem to stink within this team and while most of that post might be exaggerated nonsense I think there might be a bit of substance to it to start a fire like that.

[CarnTheScray]

Opinions will differ on who is a genuine ITK, but that poster has quite literally never posted an original piece of intel that is later proved correct, outside of things that could be considered a dart throw. Everything they share is essentially consolidating other rumours, a variation of someone else's inside info that "they also heard from their source", or vague guesswork that is impossible to disprove. No offence to the person who very well might get inside info for all we know, but they're yet to post a piece of inside information that proves them at all. Smiley Boy and cleveland are among the very few people I've seen post shit that more or less proves they actually do get something

Yeah that poster has really just accumulated all the leaks into one, and added some arguable BS. There is a user in the Bulldogs Discord (which is a group chat made for users of the Bulldogs Reddit if anyone knows what I?m talking about) that has been solid with leaks. So there?s 3 posters across BigFooty and other forums that I trust. Only thing I know for 100% fact is that they are looking for stronger assistants to aid Beveridge. The rest is all 50/50 and doomposting speculation. It?s the easiest thing to say that people at the club aren?t happy when the team is losing.

[Virgin-Dog]

Yeah that poster has really just accumulated all the leaks into one, and added some arguable BS. There is a user in the Bulldogs Discord (which is a group chat made for users of the Bulldogs Reddit if anyone knows what I?m talking about) that has been solid with leaks. So there?s 3 posters across BigFooty and other forums that I trust. Only thing I know for 100% fact is that they are looking for stronger assistants to aid Beveridge. The rest is all 50/50 and doomposting speculation. It?s the easiest thing to say that people at the club aren?t happy when the team is losing.
I’ve tried joining that discord before but all links I could find are expired. Is it closed off or open to anyone?

[HOSE B ROMERO]

Yeah that poster has really just accumulated all the leaks into one, and added some arguable BS. There is a user in the Bulldogs Discord (which is a group chat made for users of the Bulldogs Reddit if anyone knows what I?m talking about) that has been solid with leaks. So there?s 3 posters across BigFooty and other forums that I trust. Only thing I know for 100% fact is that they are looking for stronger assistants to aid Beveridge. The rest is all 50/50 and doomposting speculation. It?s the easiest thing to say that people at the club aren?t happy when the team is losing.

Geez this is getting a bit like the "Judean People's Front and The People's Front of Judea".


Nobody ever tells me any dirt and i'm too lazy to make any up.

[Grantysghost]

Geez this is getting a bit like the "Judean People's Front and The People's Front of Judea".


Nobody ever tells me any dirt and i'm too lazy to make any up.

Tell us what you know Jose!

[1eyedog]

Geez everyone is laughing at us at the moment.

Memes, useless stats and a media throng stating they just cant work us out.

When the laughs die down irrelevance is neigh.

Great.

[GVGjr]

All
While it might make for an interesting read given some of our on-field challenges, the post copied over from BF is not accurate and makes many incorrect claims. How so many bullet points are assembled and then considered as in anyway realistic is beyond me.
In my opinion you should basically ignore it.

There has been some good discussions in this thread and they're most welcomed to be continued but lets put that BF speculation to bed from here as it adds nothing to the discussion.

[1eyedog]

BF used to be a dirty word round here.

[GVGjr]

BF used to be a dirty word round here.

Not a dirty word from my perspective but you can understand how a contribution containing so many bullet points with a negative theme gather momentum with disenchanted fans after a couple of losses.

[Virgin-Dog]

All
While it might make for an interesting read given some of our on-field challenges, the post copied over from BF is not accurate and makes many incorrect claims. How so many bullet points are assembled and then considered as in anyway realistic is beyond me.
In my opinion you should basically ignore it.

There has been some good discussions in this thread and they're most welcomed to be continued but lets put that BF speculation to bed from here as it adds nothing to the discussion.
The dead giveaway is the sheer quantity of claims. Last time we had a minor leaker (the whole Tom Morris saga) Bevo lost his shit and it became a media circus. These dot points amount to 10x what was leaked back then. Our administration would be going nuclear right now if even half of this was accurate. The BF poster doesn’t have any actual credibility anyway so really nothing to worry about. I think it’s easy to conclude people are not happy behind the scenes, and it’s a poorly kept secret that we’ve got assistant coaching changes coming, but anything beyond that is baseless speculation for now

[bornadog]

The MSM are really a pack of Hypocrites.

If you look at these predictions - see here (https://www.afl.com.au/news/881017/crystal-ball-our-predictions-for-the-2023-afl-season-are-in) and also here (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/this-is-his-year-our-experts-preview-the-afl-season-20230206-p5cibc.html) not one so called footy expert tipped us as Top 4, and some had us dropping out, yet they sink the boots in saying what a great list we have and should be top 4.

[1eyedog]

Not a dirty word from my perspective but you can understand how a contribution containing so many bullet points with a negative theme gather momentum with disenchanted fans after a couple of losses.

Yes easy enough to understand.

[CarnTheScray]

I?ve tried joining that discord before but all links I could find are expired. Is it closed off or open to anyone?
Yeah only the admins can create invite links. If you have a Reddit account just post in the Bulldogs subreddit (probably the most inactive of the bulldog forums but someone should respond within a day) asking for an invite.

[SonofScray]

The MSM are really a pack of Hypocrites.

If you look at these predictions - see here (https://www.afl.com.au/news/881017/crystal-ball-our-predictions-for-the-2023-afl-season-are-in) and also here (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/this-is-his-year-our-experts-preview-the-afl-season-20230206-p5cibc.html) not one so called footy expert tipped us as Top 4, and some had us dropping out, yet they sink the boots in saying what a great list we have and should be top 4.

In our soehere though, it’s not what the pundits think. It’s what we as a whole club think. The club set themselves for a top four finish, the fans believe it, we’ve all behaved that way. And we’ve failed. Again.

[mjp]

The MSM are really a pack of Hypocrites.


Pretty sure Cornes and King both tipped us to finish 5th.

[bornadog]

Pretty sure Cornes and King both tipped us to finish 5th.

Then why the carry on that we aren't finishing top 4

[mjp]

Then why the carry on that we aren't finishing top 4

I don't really have any issue on them putting the blow-torch to our feet.

I'm more frustrated than upset because we do seem 'close' and if I was coaching I would have genuine pause as to what the right course of action to take would be. I would WANT to make some pretty fundamental changes however given what we are doing seems to work so well for large tracts of the game...

Further, it isn't as if we have been losing the 'same way' (even though it simplistically seems that way).

I think everyone assumes the Sydney loss has been repeating itself - dominating possession, unable to score, defenders getting high and conceding goals on the way back - but that isn't really true. I mean, versus the Giants we lost two key backs - really 3 if you believe the stories about the Gardner injury - and is sort of a Mulligan in so many ways...then Hawthorn belted us around the ball in q3 which basically NEVER happens. So - do we react to that?

Arguing they said we should finish 5th which isn't top 4 therefore they shouldn't have a go at us for not being top 4 is flawed though...we are 8th and have lost a heap of games lately. YES - they've been close losses but ultimately the points have gone the other way.

I'm sure the coaches are fine - they are doing the job they are well paid to do and media scrutiny is implied in the paypacket - but I do feel sorry for them in trying to navigate their way through this...the differences between our best and our worst is 100% a concern...that we can start a day playing well but then seemingly go away from that formula is puzzling.

And yep, Naughton missed two goals he should have kicked. 100%. But at the same time he led the way in q3 in terms of effort, passion and just plain old grunt and literally killed himself trying to provide a target/win the ball back...it was inspirational to be honest (not that anyone else seemed to be inspired).

I'm just going over and over the same stuff (I know) but I haven't really EVER seen anything like this.

[Grantysghost]

Then why the carry on that we aren't finishing top 4

Kornes is just about sensationalism. Not the most respected path, but that's the one he's chosen.

I mean Kano's volcano what more do you need to know about that guy.

King. Well....says a lot without saying anything.

[bornadog]

I don't really have any issue on them putting the blow-torch to our feet.

We deserve to have the blowtorch aimed at us, no problems from me. My gripe is deeper than that with these so called experts of the game, and maybe my throw away lines are not explaining anything.

David King tries to portray himself as the expert analyst of games yet his simplistic explanations don't cut it. I had a bit of a stoush with him on twitter, following the GWS game and his only solution was that Naughton should have gone back instead of Lobb and we would have won. I pointed out the issue was the non existence of forward pressure resulting in zero stoppages in the last quarter, and the ball pinging straight back down the ground for a goal. He wouldn't except that.

As for Cornes, he just tries to be a shock jock, and sometimes tells some home truths we don't want to hear and Caro is constantly trying to dig up dirt.

What I am trying to say is, give us more than throw away lines (like me, but I am not the expert), and tell us what the issues are. Look at the list and and tell us what you think are the gaps, and why we don't win close games. Don't just say well they have the cattle but can't finish top 4, yet at the start of the season they didn't even rate us. You want to be the expert then show some expertise.

Hopefully you get where I am coming from.

[GVGjr]

Please lets not take this thread off course with a mainly media critical theme. The points been made.

[Grantysghost]

Please lets not take this thread off course with a mainly media critical theme. The points been made.

Do we think we are a realistic chance of landing a Cameron or Dew G?

I don't recall the last time, if ever, we have had a former senior coach on our panel.

[The Doctor]

I don't recall the last time, if ever, we have had a former senior coach on our panel.

Barry Richardson! Remember the glory days when he was the grey head providing support to our Mastermind?

[EasternWest]

Please lets not take this thread off course with a mainly media critical theme. The points been made.

Fork you I won't do what you tell me.

It would be awesome if we could land both of Cameron (I'm past my I hate him he's a prick stage) AND Dew. Though I don't see it happening.

[bulldogtragic]

Fork you I won't do what you tell me.

It would be awesome if we could land both of Cameron (I'm past my I hate him he's a prick stage) AND Dew. Though I don't see it happening.

Head bangs! Mother forker.

But. If you’ve got ambitions and you think Bevo won’t do another 3+ years. We are not a bad place to come and show you’ve still head coach material with a potential opening down the line. Not an ideal reason to join, but one nonetheless.

[EasternWest]

Head bangs! Mother forker.

But. If you’ve got ambitions and you think Bevo won’t do another 3+ years. We are not a bad place to come and show you’ve still head coach material with a potential opening down the line. Not an ideal reason to join, but one nonetheless.

My exact thoughts.

[Grantysghost]

Head bangs! Mother forker.

But. If you’ve got ambitions and you think Bevo won’t do another 3+ years. We are not a bad place to come and show you’ve still head coach material with a potential opening down the line. Not an ideal reason to join, but one nonetheless.


I remember bunking off school to catch the train into the CBD, and get RATM self titled album on release day from Brashs!

Changed my life that album.

[EasternWest]

I remember bunking off school to catch the train into the CBD, and get RATM self titled album on release day from Brashs!

Changed my life that album.

My comrade.

[Sedat]

My comrade.
Have they changed their name to "Rage With The Machine" yet?

Still an absolute beast of a debut album, nobody can ever take that away from them.

[Grantysghost]

Have they changed their name to "Rage With The Machine" yet?

Still an absolute beast of a debut album, nobody can ever take that away from them.

Yes, that irony wasn't lost on me.

Rage Against the Machine sponsored by Warner Bros.

[EasternWest]

Have they changed their name to "Rage With The Machine" yet?

Still an absolute beast of a debut album, nobody can ever take that away from them.

I was actually more curious to know what the poor toaster had ever done to incur such ire.

[The Doctor]

I was actually more curious to know what the poor toaster had ever done to incur such ire.

I heard it was a printer? Maybe they got the idea for their name from Dennis Denuto

[Grantysghost]

I heard it was a printer? Maybe they got the idea for their name from Dennis Denuto

Tray 3 where the fk is that ! I just cleared tray 3!

[SonofScray]

Should we drop the game this weekend, is that enough to pull the pin?

I don?t think we will get beat, nor do I think the club will react.

Part of the frustration for me now is a game like this weekend feels largely inconsequential. Good or bad.

[Grantysghost]

Should we drop the game this weekend, is that enough to pull the pin?

I don?t think we will get beat, nor do I think the club will react.

Part of the frustration for me now is a game like this weekend feels largely inconsequential. Good or bad.

100 point wins are always consequential. I'm taking the popcorn.

[bulldogtragic]

100 point wins are always consequential. I'm taking the popcorn.

I don’t think WCE are quite that far into their rebuild. Not a 100 point win type team, just yet.

[GVGjr]

Should we drop the game this weekend, is that enough to pull the pin?

I don?t think we will get beat, nor do I think the club will react.

Part of the frustration for me now is a game like this weekend feels largely inconsequential. Good or bad.

It would be a genuine challenge for the club to explain and the media and many of our supporters would be all over it.

[Grantysghost]

It would be a genuine challenge for the club to explain and the media and many of our supporters would be all over it.

Be up there with Freo in 2003 at Colonial Stadium.

I still remember Rove's cousin ripping us a new one and Luke Darcy giving away a 100 metre penalty at one point he was so frustrated.

https://www.australianfootball.com/game/view/12717

[EasternWest]

100 point wins are always consequential. I'm taking the popcorn.

Oh Lord I hope this isn't the comment that we lament post game.

[Grantysghost]

Oh Lord I hope this isn't the comment that we lament post game.

Me driving to the game.

https://media.giphy.com/media/ErqAZwj6gBLYauXGxM/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[azabob]

Oh Lord I hope this isn't the comment that we lament post game.

To be filed with Tell me how we miss finals and What is your best 23 for W1 of the finals.

[The bulldog tragician]

Be up there with Freo in 2003 at Colonial Stadium.

I still remember Rove's cousin ripping us a new one and Luke Darcy giving away a 100 metre penalty at one point he was so frustrated.

https://www.australianfootball.com/game/view/12717

I remember the team got booed at half time, which was horrible, and the only time I remember it happening in a concerted way.

[SonofScray]

Be up there with Freo in 2003 at Colonial Stadium.

I still remember Rove's cousin ripping us a new one and Luke Darcy giving away a 100 metre penalty at one point he was so frustrated.

https://www.australianfootball.com/game/view/12717

Can't think of another time fans booed our own club off the ground.

[G-Mo77]

Can't think of another time fans booed our own club off the ground.

I think I was there that day, from memory it was my 1st or 2nd season as a member. We won the spoon that year. Good times.

[Topdog]

Naughton has improved his goal kicking this year and is sitting at 57% accuracy, but he has also contributed 19 goal assist along with his 40 goals.

It may have been said in the next 6 pages but he is NOT sitting at 57% accuracy as you have not counted kicks that don't register a score. Naughty as much as I love him does this at least once every 2 weeks.

[Danjul]

It may have been said in the next 6 pages but he is NOT sitting at 57% accuracy as you have not counted kicks that don't register a score. Naughty as much as I love him does this at least once every 2 weeks.
The problem with Naughton is he lets the team down in important games, for example the grand final in 2021 (1 goal) and the final last year (goalless). Doesn?t give supporters confidence looking ahead. Against Geelong he has 2 goals from the last 4 meetings.

He is very entertaining in other games, 3 goals against Richmond, but In the critical pair against GWS and Hawthorn only 1 and 0.

[angelopetraglia]

Swamp.

What the ladder would currently look like if the scores were reversed in all games decided by under a goal

COLL
BRIS
MELB
WBD
ADEL
PORT
STK
ESS

CARL
FREM
GEEL
SYD
RICH
GCS
HAW
GWS
WCE
NTH

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Swamp.

What the ladder would currently look like if the scores were reversed in all games decided by under a goal

COLL
BRIS
MELB
[B]WBD[/B

It?s a game on inches no doubt. Leaves plenty of hope we can do some damage in September

[bulldogtragic]

Bevo better hope for something. This could end him in 24 hours.

[bulldogtragic]

You have maybe three quarters left Bevo…

The players don’t care or won’t listen.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Can we sack him now?

[bulldogtragic]

Can we sack him now?

I propose we trade him for Adam Simpson!

[hujsh]

It may have been said in the next 6 pages but he is NOT sitting at 57% accuracy as you have not counted kicks that don't register a score. Naughty as much as I love him does this at least once every 2 weeks.

He also has a lot of very simple shots at goal because he's such a good mark. If there's an 'expected goal' calculator I'd expect a pretty major discrepancy.

[SonofScray]

We don’t even care enough to boo

[Rocket Science]

Burn it all down and salt the earth.

[Vred]

Prepare for a 2014-2015 like off season.

[MrMahatma]

He needs to walk.

[Sedat]

Prepare for a 2014-2015 like off season.
Will the faceless cowards in senior management be part of the shakedown? Or will they be doing all the chopping despite being responsible for most of the decisions that have led to this mess?

[bulldogtragic]

Prepare for a 2014-2015 like off season.

Yep. I’m sensing Shocktober vibes.

[DOG GOD]

He needs to walk.
His ego won’t do that.

[DOG GOD]

Yep. I’m sensing Shocktober vibes.

Really ?

Smith and English ??

[GVGjr]

We don’t even care enough to boo
Gee your prediction was spot on.
It's a sad day

[bulldogtragic]

Really ?

Smith and English ??

Fair chance. Sweet & Khamis. I’d trade out some others too. New coach should get to have players he wants.

[SonofScray]

Radio silence on club socials. That’s unusual.

Something brewing?

[anfo27]

I was open to getting rid of all the assistants & get the best out there & surround Bevo with quality. After losing to a team that didn't really want to win & had zero to play for & really have been a laughing stock this year, I don't know how he survives this.

[kruder]

I just hope we don't loose key players in the off season because of it.

If we loose against Geelong next week we will have a very good draft hand that should enable to us to trade up for a top 5 pick plus get Crofty. Let's say Duursma/Waston, Crofty and Henry is a great start to a refresh and it's up to the executive to get the structure right off the field with or without Bevo. We kicked the can down the road last year it's time to get it right because if we do we can set ourselves up for another period of success.

If not? English, Naughty,Marra and Smith up for grabs.

[1eyedog]

Grant looked like a ghost in the coaches box post-siren.

[kruder]

Grant looked like a ghost in the coaches box post-siren.

Thanks for your effort Chris, a club legend but its time he gives someone else a go. I reckon he will be the next to be moved on.

[angelopetraglia]

Grant looked like a ghost in the coaches box post-siren.

The buck stops with the leader. He has overseen the Football Department since mid 2016. It has happened on his watch.

[jeemak]

Grant looked like a ghost in the coaches box post-siren.

He looked listless.

[azabob]

Radio silence on club socials. That?s unusual.

Something brewing?

That is an extremely long bow to draw.

Most likely they know they replies will not be kind.

[azabob]

He looked listless.

Good word listless.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Radio silence on club socials. That?s unusual.

Something brewing?

I know it's just the marketing department, but it's a bit spineless.

[SonofScray]

That is an extremely long bow to draw.

Most likely they know they replies will not be kind.

They would have a plan for posting content after games, that hasn’t been followed. It might be a case of just wanting to save them from the incoming nuclear anger, but that’s still unusual. The loss has been significant enough for management to have given the directive to bunker down.

[FrediKanoute]

I again saved myself the agony of watching another insipid display by heading over to Bribie island, just North of Brisbane and South of the Sunshine Coast. You have to love winter weather in Queensland - low 20's, bright sunshine and a cooling breeze - perfect Melbourne/London Summer's day.

Checked the scores 8 mins to go in the 3rd quarter and we were a point up. Didn't bother checking again and again was not surprised by the result. It follows a script. The same script that this group, players and coaches have produced ad nauseum. Its frustrating; its disheartening; it goes against everything that they team stands for. Yet WCE, a team who have won just twice this season before today; who were pantsed by 100+ in the local derby; who with a win lose the number one draft pick; and who have a coach who is practically out the door win against a team with everything to play for.

If the players and coaches had any decency they would donate their match fees to charity out of embarrassment. but they wont. Bevo trots the same old bullsh*t that he has trotted out all season. He can't understand why the team can't beat arguably the worst team in the league since Fitzroy! He can't work out why so many of his players are already on a plane to Bali or Europe despite the season not ending. He can't because he has lost the players. sad though it is, for a guy who has been so, important and so great for our club, he no longer has the ability to motivate them. The message/game plan/tactics are stale. Not surprising - he has been there 9 seasons.

It is time for a change, a fresh pair of hands. Different tactics. Buckley/Cameron if we want a recycled coach; Hanson/Gia/Boyd if we want a new coach. Coach out the Geelong game, but let it be known that he wont be in the post next season.

[angelopetraglia]

He can't understand why the team can't beat arguably the worst team in the league since Fitzroy! He can't work out why so many of his players are already on a plane to Bali or Europe despite the season not ending. He can't because he has lost the players.

I'm not disagreeing with this sentiment. However, my question is. If he has lost the players why are we not getting 100+ point beltings like the Eagles? Why are we just losing by single digit margins every second week? Why can we produce a nine goal opening quarter against the Tigers two weeks ago?

Once a coach loses the players, the wheels completely fall off normally. That means heavy defeats which we are yet to have. Not saying he has not lost the players, but this is a very different version of it which we normally see.

[Mavericks]

Hopefully Bevo does the honourable thing and put the club first. Grant and Bains should follow as they gave Bevo too much power, to much money which limited the quality of assistants.

On a positive note JOD looks like a very good player as early as 24. Is now our 2nd best KPD and I would expect big improvement after a preseason.

[jeemak]

I'm not disagreeing with this sentiment. However, my question is. If he has lost the players why are we not getting 100+ point beltings like the Eagles? Why are we just losing by single digit margins every second week? Why can we produce a nine goal opening quarter against the Tigers two weeks ago?

Once a coach loses the players, the wheels completely fall off normally. That means heavy defeats which we are yet to have. Not saying he has not lost the players, but this is a very different version of it which we normally see.

Agreed.

It's an overly simple throwaway line that gets trotted out too easily.

There's clearly issues, but they're more complex.

[Eastdog]

I am in the camp now of changing up the coach Bevo or if we keep Bevo on wholesale changes to the assistants around him. The board and footy department big responsibility in what is going on as well and need people in there who want to take our club forward.

We also need to have a careful look at our list as well. A mini re-build might in order particularly our defence which is ageing and also our midfield which needs more grunt.

We need a Libba type because while Libba has been excellent he will not be there forever.

Bailey Smith we could trade out and get someone or picks which could be better long term.

[whythelongface]

Agreed.

It's an overly simple throwaway line that gets trotted out too easily.

There's clearly issues, but they're more complex.

Yep. Don’t think Bevo has lost the group rather he is (obviously) not getting the best out of the group. Definitely need to change things up - new coach, some new players

[Grantysghost]

Watching the presser, I found it very interesting that he mildly rebuked the notion that we have a list that should be well into the finals positions.

First time I've ever heard him say something like that, was quite a protectionist stance reading the sub text.

Paraphrasing he said outside of a handful of stars, you need to get the most out of your 23. Not sure he thinks we've got the depth others may.

[GVGjr]

Watching the presser, I found it very interesting that he mildly rebuked the notion that we have a list that should be well into the finals positions.

First time I've ever heard him say something like that, was quite a protectionist stance reading the sub text.

Paraphrasing he said outside of a handful of stars, you need to get the most out of your 23. Not sure he thinks we've got the depth others may.

There could be a bit to that but bringing in 2 x 30yo in via trades, Baker and Poulter as rookies and drafting just 3 players at the national draft makes it sound like that this is a position that has evolved through the year more so than being evident 12 months ago.

[macca]

There could be a bit to that but bringing in 2 x 30yo in via trades, Baker and Poulter as rookies and drafting just 3 players at the national draft makes it sound like that this is a position that has evolved through the year more so than being evident 12 months ago.

IF Baker and Poulter are getting games, and they weren't on our list last year, it shows our lack of depth.

Some of our kids are not coming through , either through injury, poor form , missing KPI (???") or just can't crack it due to contest in position : Buku and Sweet

[MrMahatma]

I'm not disagreeing with this sentiment. However, my question is. If he has lost the players why are we not getting 100+ point beltings like the Eagles? Why are we just losing by single digit margins every second week? Why can we produce a nine goal opening quarter against the Tigers two weeks ago?

Once a coach loses the players, the wheels completely fall off normally. That means heavy defeats which we are yet to have. Not saying he has not lost the players, but this is a very different version of it which we normally see.

We just lost to the bottom team. Bottom! The ones who HAVE been beaten by 100+. That’s surely as bad as being beaten by 100+?!

No. I’ve been a Bevo fan, but at the end of the day, this is as bad as it gets.

[anfo27]

What the hell, just make Bont captain & coach!

[Eastdog]

What the hell, just make Bont captain & coach!

Stood up as captain and might step up as coach as well!

[angelopetraglia]

Just thinking back and looking at the finish to the last three seasons where we have been playing games with the season on the line against teams we should defeat and are heavy favourites to win but failing to get the job done. Yesterday was not an aberration. History keeps on repeating.

Season 2021

We need a win to secure a top four finish. We are on top with three rounds to play. Last three games.

Lose to the Bombers by 13.
Lose to the Hawks by 27.
Lose to Port by 2.

Miss top four. Shoot ourselves in the foot with unexplainable losses.

Season 2022

Need three wins to secure a finals position.

Lose to Cats by 28 (after being three goals up at 1/4 time)
Lose to Freo at home by 17 (horrific defending that day, basically statues)
Fall across the line against GWS at home by 5
Defeat the Hawks in the final game by 23 but equal on goals at 3/4 time

Only make finals due to two miracle comebacks from Demons and Pies to defeat the Blues by under a goal.

Season 2023

Two wins against 16th and 18th will secure a finals position.

Lose to Hawks by 3 points
Lose to Eagles by 7 points.

Need a miracle to make finals, again.

[bulldogtragic]

Don’t forget the 2021 GF!

[angelopetraglia]

Don’t forget the 2021 GF!

I'm not. Just commenting on our ability to win games to finish off the home and away season. Games where we start as heavy favourites and lose. It is a trend. It keeps on repeating.

[dukedog]

Going through the list.
Reckon it needs a cleanout



Keep..
Treloar
Jamarra
Weightman
Bont
Busslinger
Smith - inside mid
Lobb
Clarke
Darcy
Mcrae
Gallagher
Baker
West - inside midfield
Mclean - forward
Odonnell
Jones
Richards
Libba
Vdm
Khamis
Bedendo
Scott
Mcneil
Dale
Arty
Naughton
Williams
Daniel
Cleary
Garcia
JJ
Raak
Sweet
Gardner
English - i would trade to WCE if they want him.



Cut..
Crozier
Duryea
Bruce
Obrien
Poulter - but he will stay
Mccomb
Hannan
Roarke
Keath

[angelopetraglia]

Blame Bevo? Perhaps these Dogs just aren't as good as we thought

Rohan Connolly Aug 21, 2023, 08:30 AM

Assessing the Western Bulldogs has never been that simple right throughout Luke Beveridge's nine seasons as coach. And even after one of, if not the most embarrassing defeats of his 205 games in charge on Sunday, that hasn't necessarily changed.

For all the humiliation of that loss to West Coast, one of the worst-performed teams of the modern era, with finals hopes squarely on the line; for all the white-hot anger of Bulldog fans after the game, and for all their calls for Beveridge's sacking, all is not yet quite lost.

As tough a task as will be beating Geelong on its home turf, for once it will be a Geelong without anything September-related for which to play. Win an admittedly unlikely victory, then see Carlton beat the Giants the following afternoon, and the Bulldogs will still be playing finals.

Would that appease the Bulldog faithful? Probably not. But then the Bulldogs under Beveridge have been a team specializing in the unlikely surge.

Expectations among the fan base weren't high heading into the finals of 2016 and 2021, the Dogs having finished the home-and-away season seventh and sixth respectively. Yet they were campaigns which ended in a premiership and another Grand Final appearance.

And even seven years on, that famous flag, and to a lesser extent that Grand Final two years ago they led by three goals midway through the third term, continue to muddy the waters about both club and coach.

Beveridge's effort in leading those 2016 Bulldogs to the flag is undoubtedly one of the greatest single-season coaching performances in history. But is he still a great coach of the Bulldogs? Is this a team drastically underperformed? Or do Bulldogs fans, and a fair chunk of the football world (me included) perhaps overestimate their potential?

Given I tipped the Dogs to win this year's premiership (my other Grand Finalist was Richmond, by the way, so yes, that is a spectacular fail), I clearly fall into the "drastically underperformed" camp. Yet, like others, I'm also beginning to wonder if I've had the rose-coloured glasses on too often when it comes to this team.

Tipping them for the flag was the stuff of hunches, really, given they'd won only 12 of 23 games last year and finished eighth. And were the arrival of a key defender in Liam Jones and a key forward/ruckman in Rory Lobb really going to lift them that many rungs up the ladder?

Similarly, I think I (and more importantly, the Bulldogs themselves) may have drastically underestimated the impact the loss of Josh Dunkley and Lachie Hunter would have on a midfield group whose depth we've prattled on about for years, but whom have at times this season been found wanting, certainly defensively.

The Bulldogs were ostensibly travelling pretty well at 7-3 after Round 10. But only three of those wins were against current top eight teams. And since then? The Dogs have gone a miserable 4-8, and not a single one of those victories has been against an opponent from the upper echelon.

Pre-season, all the talk was about the potential of the Dogs' tall forward set-up. In reality, it's been a non-event.

While Aaron Naughton and Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, plus Cody Weightman at their feet, have all had their moments, as a group they've rarely clicked as one, the Dogs only 10th for points scored after ranking fifth last year and second in 2021. That's despite high rankings for inside 50s and time in forward half. In other words, text book inefficiency.

It's actually been their defence, along with solid enough midfield numbers, which has held things together, but now the walls are beginning to crumble, meaning the Dogs can't score enough and are getting score against too easily, West Coast's 14.8 (92) the Eagles' second-highest score of the season, their average prior to Sunday a miserable 60 points per game.

Their ball movement is slow and stodgy, the Dogs ranking a lowly 16th prior to Sunday for defensive to offensive 50 transition, a statistic in which every single one of the last 10 premiership sides has ranked at least top six. It's not the profile of an aspiring top team.

And the coach? It's a pretty interesting juncture for Beveridge, who was re-signed only late last year for another two seasons. He was asked directly after Sunday's loss about his future despite that tenure. You suspect not for the last time, either.

Many hardcore Bulldog fans certainly seem to have fallen out of love even with the man who gave the club just its second premiership in 2016. And the Beveridge of 2023 certainly seems a more prickly and defensive character than the one of those glorious flag-winning days of seven years ago.

Sunday's loss to West Coast might well have been the lowest point for both the Bulldogs and their coach of the past decade. That could potentially be surpassed by another bad loss at the Cattery on Saturday night, and a season without finals for the first time since 2018.

But then what happens if the Bulldogs ... well, do another Bulldogs, make the eight and launch another unlikely finals run? You can never be quite sure with this mob. Maybe their coach can't, either.

[Boots]

I'm not. Just commenting on our ability to win games to finish off the home and away season. Games where we start as heavy favourites and lose. It is a trend. It keeps on repeating.

I've been saying to my flatmate (a Swannies supporter who cannot believe what the dogs are doing at the moment) for weeks that we always chuck the last three, it's just the Bulldogs way.

I remember in 2016 when we somewhat inexplicably lost the final game vs. Freo. We just seem to be hard to motivate outside of finals.

[Vred]

Blame Bevo? Perhaps these Dogs just aren't as good as we thought

Rohan Connolly Aug 21, 2023, 08:30 AM



I get what they're saying in this article, I've thought it myself from time to time.
This is the same team (minus one Josh Dunkley and a questionable Lachie Hunter) that was up halfway through the 3rd in a GF less than two years ago.. We've had really **** all player turn over from that team since then and now, yes, some players drop off but others also improve.

The team on paper is basically the same as the one that smashed the Bombers, Brisbane at home and Port at home in a finals run. How on earth can the drop off be THAT bad? I still always conclude it comes back to coaching, structure, and mental fortitude.

[Boots]

Pre-season, all the talk was about the potential of the Dogs' tall forward set-up. In reality, it's been a non-event.

While Aaron Naughton and Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, plus Cody Weightman at their feet, have all had their moments, as a group they've rarely clicked as one, the Dogs only 10th for points scored after ranking fifth last year and second in 2021. That's despite high rankings for inside 50s and time in forward half. In other words, text book inefficiency.

It's actually been their defence, along with solid enough midfield numbers, which has held things together, but now the walls are beginning to crumble, meaning the Dogs can't score enough and are getting score against too easily, West Coast's 14.8 (92) the Eagles' second-highest score of the season, their average prior to Sunday a miserable 60 points per game.

Great article AP - this excerpt for mine is the key to our woes. We act like our forward line is good and our defence bad, but it's the other way around. One of about three good posters on BF (the stats guy, Oliver Gigacz), has pointed out repeatedly with evidence that the 'run ons' are not really the backline's fault, they're a result of the forward line and midfield failing to defend, and no backline could possibly defend a ball coming in at that speed.

This analysis by Connolly would seem to support that - our back line is cobbled together but works, but our forward line is hot garbage and costing us games.

[GVGjr]

Blame Bevo? Perhaps these Dogs just aren't as good as we thought

Rohan Connolly Aug 21, 2023, 08:30 AM



I think it should read perhaps they're not as good as the club thought.

[Sedat]

One of about three good posters on BF (the stats guy, Oliver Gigacz), has pointed out repeatedly with evidence that the 'run ons' are not really the backline's fault, they're a result of the forward line and midfield failing to defend, and no backline could possibly defend a ball coming in at that speed.
I don't think this is new news for many posters on here - our lack of two-way defensive running in midfield and our lack of F50 pressure has been repeatedly highlighted on woof as major problem areas for us.

[Boots]

I don't think this is new news for many posters on here - our lack of two-way defensive running and our lack of F50 pressure has been repeatedly highlighted on woof as major problem areas for us.

Yeah for sure, didn't mean to suggest it was news - that's just the only place I've seen good stats about it so it sticks in my head.

[angelopetraglia]

I think it should read perhaps they're not as good as the club thought.

They will not be the first or last club administration to overrate a list. History is littered with many examples. You often get it wrong.

What you need to do now, is recalibrate quickly and be decisive. If you get it wrong again, things can spiral out of control quickly that can result in an extended time at the bottom of the ladder.

[Sedat]

I think it should read perhaps they're not as good as the club thought.
Spot on. We have internally been bullish about being in contention since 2020. The trajectory was trending positively 12 months later, but the 8 minutes of madness in the 2021 GF has psychologically destroyed this playing group and I reckon the coach as well.

Ultimately yesterday's loss will not hurt - we needed to be fully exposed as a club and playing group. Even if we respond on the weekend and sneak into the finals, the mask is now off.

[Mantis]

I don't think this is new news for many posters on here - our lack of two-way defensive running and our lack of F50 pressure has been repeatedly highlighted on woof as major problem areas for us.

I’ve been strong on our transition defending over the past few years and it’s getting worse. Lots of finger pointing & jogging. It’s endemic within our team, and led by our on-field leaders.

[angelopetraglia]

Massive hypothetical.

If Libba doesn't get knocked out against the Hawks. Do we win that game? Do we win yesterday? Is Libba worth a goal against the Hawks and 8 points against the Eagles?

Is that the sliding door moment? Would have Libba staying healthy for these two games just delayed the the inevitable, what we are now seeing laid bare?

[Mantis]

Massive hypothetical.

If Libba doesn't get knocked out against the Hawks. Do we win that game? Do we win yesterday? Is Libba worth a goal against the Hawks and 8 points against the Eagles?

Is that the sliding door moment? Would have Libba staying healthy for these two games just delayed the the inevitable, what we are now seeing laid bare?

Would hate to see what our season would’ve looked like if we’d lost Libba or Bont for a considerable period of time… too much has been left for too few in the middle and we’ve just shuffled the deck on the perimeter due to injury and form.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Massive hypothetical.

If Libba doesn't get knocked out against the Hawks. Do we win that game? Do we win yesterday? Is Libba worth a goal against the Hawks and 8 points against the Eagles?

Is that the sliding door moment? Would have Libba staying healthy for these two games just delayed the the inevitable, what we are now seeing laid bare?

We would have won both

Thats how good I believe Libba is - but instead it has exposed some glaring problems

We have the pieces to re-jig relatively quickly but as Mantis and others allude to - our defensive transition and efforts are far too selective - we want the game on our terms far too much and thats pretty frustrating to watch when we dont roll our sleeves up

[kruder]

Chris Grants message on Whateley was basically nothing to see here move on.

[azabob]

Chris Grants message on Whateley was basically nothing to see here move on.

The last 15 seconds of the interview make me think we make finals he stays, we miss he goes.

[bulldogtragic]

Chris Grants message on Whateley was basically nothing to see here move on.

Sure we can move on. Him first.

[jeemak]

I don't think this is new news for many posters on here - our lack of two-way defensive running in midfield and our lack of F50 pressure has been repeatedly highlighted on woof as major problem areas for us.

It's literally the reason why we kick to congestion near side on entry. To try and give our forwards the best opportunity to keep the ball inside F50.

[Grantysghost]

It's literally the reason why we kick to congestion near side on entry. To try and give our forwards the best opportunity to keep the ball inside F50.

Was talking to a coaching mate about this exact thing yesterday.
We setup from wing stoppage with the forwards ready to ensure the territory gain against the boundary.
I watched English get it and he knew the plan and kicked it right down into that pocket. Territory is the plan.

https://i.postimg.cc/2S1k3Gc4/PXL-20230820-033525117-2.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gxPFTVPJ)

The Eagles defenders all knew it too from their positioning.

[MrMahatma]

The last 15 seconds of the interview make me think we make finals he stays, we miss he goes.

Was hard to read that final answer. He seemed pretty firm that Bevo stays, but then talks about "hard calls". He said they'd make "hard calls" if necessary about 10 times in the interview. What's a hard call? Sacking Bevo? Moving on our entire Assistant panel? Trading out a couple of "stars"? Making 12-15 list changes? Changing the captain? Paying over the soft cap to get the best support?

[azabob]

Was hard to read that final answer. He seemed pretty firm that Bevo stays, but then talks about "hard calls". He said they'd make "hard calls" if necessary about 10 times in the interview. What's a hard call? Sacking Bevo? Moving on our entire Assistant panel? Trading out a couple of "stars"? Making 12-15 list changes? Changing the captain? Paying over the soft cap to get the best support?

Agree it was hard to read, but I was surprised by it considering how firm he was during it Bevo is the man.

As finals are still alive nothing but positivity will be coming out of the club.

If we lose Saturday night, this time next week will be interesting.

[MrMahatma]

Was talking to a coaching mate about this exact thing yesterday.
We setup from wing stoppage with the forwards ready to ensure the territory gain against the boundary.
I watched English get it and he knew the plan and kicked it right down into that pocket. Territory is the plan.

https://i.postimg.cc/2S1k3Gc4/PXL-20230820-033525117-2.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gxPFTVPJ)

The Eagles defenders all knew it too from their positioning.

Your drawing kind of looks like a dog laying dead on its back. Which is quite accurate.

[1eyedog]

There's many ways a club might over-rate a list and there can be no doubt that we expected to play finals this year and in addition thought we were in good shape to finish top 4. I was thinking about the Rohan Connelly article and I was wondering how we / the media actually assess our list's ability to achieve these goals?

If you look at the number of high draft picks in the team, the potential of particular players and the snippets certain other players have provided us previously, I can see why the club and the media had high expectations this year. The Connelly article is interesting because for the first time yesterday in the post-match presser Bevo actually alluded to 'a handful of players is not going to get it done'. We know who these handful of players are. He also mentioned that you have to devise a plan based on the 23 you have. We know we have a suspect bottom 4 and have had for years. Reading between the lines was he indirectly hinting at the broad gap in ability / potential / smarts / mental toughness across our list?

When reviewing the list now I'm wondering if Bevo is seriously contemplating for the first time not so much the raw football ability of the list, but their ability mentally and intellectually to stick with the program for four quarters. We may have a list that looks dynamite on paper in terms of talent and potential, but we may also have a list that are either mentally weak and can't roll out the plan, or are simply not smart enough to play their required role across four quarters. This might be far harder to discern, especially for those in the media / us supporters. Doesn't excuse Bevo though.

If this is the case Bevo needs to identify and acknowledge it ASAP and devise a new plan to suit the cognitive ability of the players because they're not picking up what he is throwing down.

[bulldogtragic]

That’s be Bevo’s third game plan this year. Being that busy he should get a pay rise.

[Mofra]

Cut..
Crozier
Duryea
Bruce
Obrien
Poulter - but he will stay
Mccomb
Hannan
Roarke
Keath
Keath is contracted for next year - got himself a one year deal.
I'd give Poulter a deal.
Someone had a rumour about O'Brien being offered a one year deal but I hope someone saw JOD's game on the weekend and realised that Keath is our injury back up next season and O'Brien isn't required.

[SonofScray]

Grant was pressing the snow button in his interview, but it didn't work. Too late.

He's gone too. Really unimpressed with him there.

[Grantysghost]

Your drawing kind of looks like a dog laying dead on its back. Which is quite accurate.

Ha very good

[Eastdog]

Grant was pressing the snow button in his interview, but it didn't work. Too late.

He's gone too. Really unimpressed with him there.

I was willing to give Bevo a chance but now after that debacle yesterday I'm in the Bevo out camp. Something needs to change and as you say SOS the President, CEO and director of football bear a huge responsibility so would not mind change there and get people in who are genuinely putting our club first. Right now something is not right at 417 Barkly Street.

[Sedat]

I'm in the "Bains/KW-W/Grant out" camp first and foremost. And I'm in the "forensic look at all on-field operations" camp - recruiting, player development, fitness & conditioning, assistant coaching, player welfare, the whole nine yards.

If it is ultimately determined that Bevo needs to go as part of this overall and all-encompassing review, then all well and good. I keep seeing clubs that stick fat under more pressure than us right now going on to have immediate glory - Geelong 2006, Richmond 2016, Melbourne 2020 (maybe Port 2023). And in that time I have seen many clubs succumb to that pressure and take the easy option of sacking the coach, and then not win jack-shit (ironically, except us in 2014 when we got rid of BMac while still under contract for another 2 years).

What I definitely don't want us to do is anything sudden and drastic until a proper and complete review is undertaken post-season (and not by those currently "in charge"). And there is really nowhere to hide for the entire club after the weekend.

[D Mitchell]

Interestingly, 2 games earlier we had Naughton, Weightman, JUH and Lobb combine for the spectacular total of 2 goals. It was close to a dress rehearsal for Sunday. Oh wait, they actually improved. But we still lost by less than a goal.

Lack of scoring is only part of the problem with the fab 4, it's forward pressure or lack thereof. They are credited with 9 tackles between them, 5 of which were Naughton. The midfielders cop blame for being unaccountable but opposition defenders waltz out of defence under no pressure to kick to the widest part of the oval into which opposition mids can, and do, run.

Disclaimer: I wasn't at the game and assume that the forwards' patterns were the same as they have been for at least the last 2 years.

[Eastdog]

I'm in the "Bains/KW-W/Grant out" camp first and foremost. And I'm in the "forensic look at all on-field operations" camp - recruiting, player development, fitness & conditioning, assistant coaching, player welfare, the whole nine yards.

If it is ultimately determined that Bevo needs to go as part of this overall and all-encompassing review, then all well and good. I keep seeing clubs that stick fat under more pressure than us right now going on to have immediate glory - Geelong 2006, Richmond 2016, Melbourne 2020 (maybe Port 2023). And in that time I have seen many clubs succumb to that pressure and take the easy option of sacking the coach, and then not win jack-shit (ironically, except us in 2014 when we got rid of BMac while still under contract for another 2 years).

What I definitely don't want us to do is anything sudden and drastic until a proper and complete review is undertaken post-season (and not by those currently "in charge"). And there is really nowhere to hide for the entire club after the weekend.

Yeah I like what you are saying Sedat and that is ultimately what should happen. If Bevo stays there must be full change of the assistant support around him. The CEO, President and Director of Football as mentioned need to take responsibility as well as the senior coach. Getting rid off the coach alone and not see other change isn't necessarily the best either.

[1eyedog]

If Bevo stays he needs senior support. Preferably an ex-AFL coach who knows the game and can comfortably shoulder some of the burden be it match day tactics, media obligations, game plan development or just by being a 2IC this must happen.

Bevo needs to come to the party on this. Cameron, Dew, Ratten I'm not terrible fussed who it is.

[Eastdog]

If Bevo stays he needs senior support. Preferably an ex-AFL coach who knows the game and can comfortably shoulder some of the burden be it match day tactics, media obligations, game plan development or just by being a 2IC this must happen.

Bevo needs to come to the party on this. Cameron, Dew, Ratten I'm not terrible fussed who it is.

Yep absolutely 1eyedog. I think if Bevo goes then the rest need to follow pretty much. Lade might have some insight into how the football department operates compared to other clubs he was at.

[SonofScray]

I'm in the "Bains/KW-W/Grant out" camp first and foremost. And I'm in the "forensic look at all on-field operations" camp - recruiting, player development, fitness & conditioning, assistant coaching, player welfare, the whole nine yards.

If it is ultimately determined that Bevo needs to go as part of this overall and all-encompassing review, then all well and good. I keep seeing clubs that stick fat under more pressure than us right now going on to have immediate glory - Geelong 2006, Richmond 2016, Melbourne 2020 (maybe Port 2023). And in that time I have seen many clubs succumb to that pressure and take the easy option of sacking the coach, and then not win jack-shit (ironically, except us in 2014 when we got rid of BMac while still under contract for another 2 years).

What I definitely don't want us to do is anything sudden and drastic until a proper and complete review is undertaken post-season (and not by those currently "in charge"). And there is really nowhere to hide for the entire club after the weekend.
It’s a fair minded approach. I would say it’s the only one other than Bevo out I can deal with, and even then I won’t be able to get behind him. Fear that they’ve missed the boat. There is enough talent on the list still to salvage something if they act swiftly and don’t compromise another summer.

[FrediKanoute]

We just lost to the bottom team. Bottom! The ones who HAVE been beaten by 100+. That?s surely as bad as being beaten by 100+?!

No. I?ve been a Bevo fan, but at the end of the day, this is as bad as it gets.

I am with you. Call it what you want in terms of whether he has lost the players or not, but he asked for a response post losing to the Hawks, the 3rd worst team and the team went out and lost to the bottom team. He may not have ?lost? the players, but the message isn?t working. It?s time for a change.

[SonofScray]

I can’t believe they rolled out Bont to face the music.

Bont did very well, to be fair, but the bloke is doing it all at the moment. Carrying whatever shreds of the season are left on his shoulders, busting his arse on the field, taking bullets for the coach now too. That’s not fair. Why aren’t the others “sharing responsibility” like he mentioned?

Grant, to his credit, at least fronted up, I suppose.

Infuriating.

[DOG GOD]

I guess when the president is a ghost, then she doesn?t set a very good example for the club. If that was Gorden or Smorgon, they would?ve been on the front foot with an apology to the members, surely, saying it was unacceptable.

We are a weak club. We need a harder edge, and starting from the top down, wouldn?t hurt.

[1eyedog]

I think it's time for a big restructure of both the coaching and football departments. I'm not sure we are going to be able to turn this around anytime soon re. early 2024 by bringing in a new coach. So maybe Bevo stays. I would like the club to be seen to be going through a stringent review commencing precisely one week from today and as others here have voiced previously I want a thorough independent review of both departments. I want KWW's role heavily scutinised and I want to know whether the Presidency of the Western Bulldogs was a C.V filler for her and a lazy high profile marketing strategy for us, or both. It's been crap I would actually like her to be replaced she has been a Phantom, a ghost that walks. A good President is the next most important figure behind the coach in terms of branding so we may as well just roll out dyed in wool Smorgo till he carks it I reckon.

Grant I reckon is on a hiding to nothing because he clearly loves the club, I mean he stayed for 20c for god's sake, but maybe he loves the club too much and is just too emotionally invested. Seems to love Bevo for what he has done in the past and there is genuine anxiety amongst supporters that his role is compromised because he can't see past Bevo to the dumpster fire in the background. Love Grant he is the best of us but maybe need someone more impartial. Fresh eyes here. Grant needs to go.

Bains is a bit of a survivor who has been involved in quite a few high profile positions across a few clubs. I believe he's smart and is good at business and that's what you want from your CEO. Reckon him and Bevo just agree to leave each other alone and if that works is that enough? He could also easily be a con man as well as far as I'm concerned. I'm 50/50 on Bains. I don't think he is a huge Bevo supporter and I think he has enough impartiality to not get rolled up in the Bevo aura.

Assistant Coaches. Blah. I know I mean I know we've been told Webb is a good coach and that's fine he clearly is. Sphanger is a bit of a green horn still learning under Bevo and Lade is probably not even being heard so there's potentially little to no support here for Bevo at all. I do think Bevo is his own worst enemy with his micro-management fetish though. Must be frustrating to work with.

Because this is the next place we can sack from and make a big statement without coach sacking I reckon we'll see a complete re-boot here. Be a shame to lose Lade but he's not a 2IC. He's a 2IC to a 2IC. I would like to keep him if we can and pair him with a decent senior assistant coach, preferably one that has coached within the last five years.

A new assistant with senior coaching experience working with Lade might just be a bridge too far in terms of change for Bevo. I get a feeling Bevo is not huge on sharing the limelight next to a highly experienced coach.

Think we should lose KWW, Grant, maybe Bains, Sphanger and Webb. Decent clean out. Depends on the power base at the club and maybe I have got it the wrong way around but I know that Bevo wont be walking.

[kruder]

I'm in the "Bains/KW-W/Grant out" camp first and foremost. And I'm in the "forensic look at all on-field operations" camp - recruiting, player development, fitness & conditioning, assistant coaching, player welfare, the whole nine yards.

If it is ultimately determined that Bevo needs to go as part of this overall and all-encompassing review, then all well and good. I keep seeing clubs that stick fat under more pressure than us right now going on to have immediate glory - Geelong 2006, Richmond 2016, Melbourne 2020 (maybe Port 2023). And in that time I have seen many clubs succumb to that pressure and take the easy option of sacking the coach, and then not win jack-shit (ironically, except us in 2014 when we got rid of BMac while still under contract for another 2 years).

What I definitely don't want us to do is anything sudden and drastic until a proper and complete review is undertaken post-season (and not by those currently "in charge"). And there is really nowhere to hide for the entire club after the weekend.

Listening to all the media today there isn't a hint of Bevo being moved on at this stage due to his contract, I'd suggest your first option is most likely.

[Scorlibo]

My feelings on Bevo's tenure centre entirely around the imminent overhaul - yes we've had a list that could have challenged this year, and it's a missed opportunity, but it would be folly to think that with a few further tweaks we can be a challenger next year.

Anyone can see we need an overhaul of the aging list and of the football department, and I feel strongly that in this kind of situation you need a coach who is enthusiastic and ready for the long journey of heading in a new direction. If that's Bevo, then it's Bevo for the next 5 years. Somehow though he seems down on motivation himself, subdued, out of ideas and incapable of taking the reigns for this time span. What we absolutely should not be doing is taking a 'wait and see' approach with Bevo next year. We'll be a year behind in the process, which might cost us another tilt when the likes of Bont, Macrae, English, Dale are in their twilight.

[angelopetraglia]

Caro running with that Bevo has the backing of Bont, but other players are not happy.

Now edited to include the right link. https://twitter.com/FootyonNine/status/1693547146912391396?s=20

[bornadog]

My feelings on Bevo's tenure centre entirely around the imminent overhaul - yes we've had a list that could have challenged this year, and it's a missed opportunity, but it would be folly to think that with a few further tweaks we can be a challenger next year.

Anyone can see we need an overhaul of the aging list and of the football department, and I feel strongly that in this kind of situation you need a coach who is enthusiastic and ready for the long journey of heading in a new direction. If that's Bevo, then it's Bevo for the next 5 years. Somehow though he seems down on motivation himself, subdued, out of ideas and incapable of taking the reigns for this time span. What we absolutely should not be doing is taking a 'wait and see' approach with Bevo next year. We'll be a year behind in the process, which might cost us another tilt when the likes of Bont, Macrae, English, Dale are in their twilight.

Agree Scorlibo. A lot of planning, staff changes an restructure must be put into place ahead of preseason training

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Agree Scorlibo. A lot of planning, staff changes an restructure must be put into place ahead of preseason training

Didn't we already do a review / make some structural changes last year?

He has to go. Anything less is spineless and a club that holds dearly onto the success of 2016.

Time to move on.

[GVGjr]

Didn't we already do a review / make some structural changes last year?

He has to go. Anything less is spineless and a club that holds dearly onto the success of 2016.

Time to move on.

Yes we did, I don't believe it was shared.

[Dancin' Douggy]

There's many ways a club might over-rate a list and there can be no doubt that we expected to play finals this year and in addition thought we were in good shape to finish top 4. I was thinking about the Rohan Connelly article and I was wondering how we / the media actually assess our list's ability to achieve these goals?

If you look at the number of high draft picks in the team, the potential of particular players and the snippets certain other players have provided us previously, I can see why the club and the media had high expectations this year. The Connelly article is interesting because for the first time yesterday in the post-match presser Bevo actually alluded to 'a handful of players is not going to get it done'. We know who these handful of players are. He also mentioned that you have to devise a plan based on the 23 you have. We know we have a suspect bottom 4 and have had for years. Reading between the lines was he indirectly hinting at the broad gap in ability / potential / smarts / mental toughness across our list?

When reviewing the list now I'm wondering if Bevo is seriously contemplating for the first time not so much the raw football ability of the list, but their ability mentally and intellectually to stick with the program for four quarters. We may have a list that looks dynamite on paper in terms of talent and potential, but we may also have a list that are either mentally weak and can't roll out the plan, or are simply not smart enough to play their required role across four quarters. This might be far harder to discern, especially for those in the media / us supporters. Doesn't excuse Bevo though.

If this is the case Bevo needs to identify and acknowledge it ASAP and devise a new plan to suit the cognitive ability of the players because they're not picking up what he is throwing down.

But how much of the list and team selection is Bevo?s to own. To blame the list and the selected players when you?ve been the senior coach is indigestible to me. Is he blaming the recruiting, the trading, the selection panel and the players but none of it is his fault?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yes we did, I don't believe it was shared.

Bit of a laughing stock to do a review after a review.

[jeemak]

Caro running with that Bevo has the backing of Bont, but other players are not happy.

https://x.com/sammy__edmund/status/1693536441794748901?s=46&t=oMlyiNHry1lhUs8p7uzZ_A

Doesn't come through as reflecting what you posted.

[macca]

Bit of a laughing stock to do a review after a review.

it will need to actually review the review that was done .

this list is limited and the players lack aggression and need to stamp their presence. they just play to nice footy.

[azabob]

Doesn't come through as reflecting what you posted.

Lol.
At least you’re now clicking links ��

[jeemak]

Lol.
At least you’re now clicking links ��

Get stuffed Aza.

[angelopetraglia]

Doesn't come through as reflecting what you posted.

Apologies. Here is the right link: https://twitter.com/FootyonNine/status/1693547146912391396?s=20

[jeemak]

Apologies. Here is the right link: https://twitter.com/FootyonNine/status/1693547146912391396?s=20

Thanks and what a haaaaaawwwwwt take!

Bont supports him today. Bont's onside. Fringe players get selected over other fringe players - and the playing group is frustrated! So on and so forth.....

[angelopetraglia]

Thanks and what a haaaaaawwwwwt take!

Bont supports him today. Bont's onside. Fringe players get selected over other fringe players - and the playing group is frustrated! So on and so forth.....

Yep and yep. Interesting to see if there any other riveting bombshells at 9:40pm. Make sure you switch it on. Ha.

[jeemak]

Yep and yep. Interesting to see if there any other riveting bombshells at 9:40pm. Make sure you switch it on. Ha.

I have an appointment for my balls to be kicked in repeatedly at that time, so please keep me informed if you can?

[GVGjr]

Bit of a laughing stock to do a review after a review.

We would complete reviews after every season. Some are more in-depth and more important than others.

[1eyedog]

But how much of the list and team selection is Bevo?s to own. To blame the list and the selected players when you?ve been the senior coach is indigestible to me. Is he blaming the recruiting, the trading, the selection panel and the players but none of it is his fault?

I think Bevo has a big say on list management and selection. I think he has a big say in everything actually. Maybe thats the problem.

I'm just coming at it from a 'they ain't going to sack Bevo and pay him out his two years' angle.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We would complete reviews after every season. Some are more in-depth and more important than others.

Each club woukd review their years, but the level of detail of last year's review / this year's impending review would be of a far more detailed and investigative nature.

That we actually need to do another thorough review after that's what we supposedly did last year is a blight on the administration of the football club.

[angelopetraglia]

Jon Ralph

"There is a feeling Bevo’s message has been inconsistent or confusing for players as he tries to frantically turn the season around. Major changes still possible but it would be to get the best out of him rather than move him on after Rohan Smith was pushed out as the first domino"

[angelopetraglia]

The Footy Classifed Bulldogs chat

https://twitter.com/FootyonNine/status/1693592824803934498?s=20

[angelopetraglia]

Caro

"I hear there is disaffected players this year, we know what happened with Dunkley last year, we are not sure what Bailey Smiths future is, we don' know how Adam Treloar is feeling, will Tim English accept a big offer to go and play for the West Coast and a general dissatisfaction with the lack of cohesion and consistency in form and selection. Thank heavens Bevo has Marcus Bontempelli who has been his great leader and supporter throughout all of this."

[bulldogtragic]

Caro

"I hear there is disaffected players this year, we know what happened with Dunkley last year, we are not sure what Bailey Smiths future is, we don' know how Adam Treloar is feeling, will Tim English accept a big offer to go and play for the West Coast and a general dissatisfaction with the lack of cohesion and consistency in form and selection. Thank heavens Bevo has Marcus Bontempelli who has been his great leader and supporter throughout all of this."

So Caro wants my mega three club trade between WCE & GCS after Pick 10 for Smith too.

[Grantysghost]

We don't know how Adam Treloar is feeling.

So don't say it muck racker!

[angelopetraglia]

Caro

"Dunkley was the big one who left, he seemed to represent the divide between the good guys and the bad guys"

What does that mean? Are the Bulldogs like a Marvel Movie. Does she mean bad characters and good characters?

[bornadog]

Caro

"Dunkley was the big one who left, he seemed to represent the divide between the good guys and the bad guys"

What does that mean? Are the Bulldogs like a Marvel Movie. Does she mean bad characters and good characters?

She is guessing as usual

[bulldogtragic]

Caro

"Dunkley was the big one who left, he seemed to represent the divide between the good guys and the bad guys"

What does that mean? Are the Bulldogs like a Marvel Movie. Does she mean bad characters and good characters?

Poorly put together by a Disney executive?

[angelopetraglia]

The whole piece doesn't really tell us anything. Speculation. Maybe a little inside gossip.

Kane's view that Bevo has been a poor ambassador I don't cop. He has had a few moments he would like to take back and a few things that Bulldog fans have enjoyed that Kane hasn't (like when Bevo targeted him directly after Kane went after Treloar after the Brisbane final and then he bounced back the next week against Port and Bevo had a pot shot at Kane after the game.)

It is really personal with Kane and his double standard with Hinkley who has coached longer than Bevo without ever getting Port to a GF and has had less finals appearances is hypocrisy at scale.

(I know, I know, I need to remember he is just playing the heel as always).

[josie]

If we somehow win vs Cats and maybe win an elimination final I’m really worried the thorough review with external eyes and subsequent changes that are required to make us real challengers in the shortest realistic timeframe will be half baked at best.me.

I want Bain’s or KWW to come out publicly straight asap or at latest after our season is over and say we commit to a thorough on & off field review no matter what.

[jeemak]

If we somehow win vs Cats and maybe win an elimination final I?m really worried the thorough review with external eyes and subsequent changes that are required to make us real challengers in the shortest realistic timeframe will be half baked at best.me.

I want Bain?s or KWW to come out publicly straight asap or at latest after our season is over and say we commit to a thorough on & off field review no matter what.

What if they already know what is wrong but by the time last year's review was completed many of the changes were too late to enact?

With the assistant coach re-signing deadline in early August or whenever it is (it's well before the season ends) a review post season won't leave you with the appropriate time to source alternatives. A review that starts in September and concludes within a month and a half or two months with respect to being ratified by the board leaves the club exposed to missing the boat on any recruitment and footy department changes that immediately need to happen.

[Sedat]

She is guessing as usual
She wouldn't even know where the West Gate Bridge is, let alone what is happening at the kennel.

[jeemak]

She wouldn't even know where the Westgate Bridge is, let alone what is happening at the kennel.

The only thing remotely working class/ west side are her ciggie wrinkles.

[JanLorMill]

I want Bain’s or KWW to come out publicly straight asap or at latest after our season is over and say we commit to a thorough on & off field review no matter what.
KWW and Bains are part of the problem. Why would they do that?

[G-Mo77]

The whole piece doesn't really tell us anything. Speculation. Maybe a little inside gossip.

Kane's view that Bevo has been a poor ambassador I don't cop. He has had a few moments he would like to take back and a few things that Bulldog fans have enjoyed that Kane hasn't (like when Bevo targeted him directly after Kane went after Treloar after the Brisbane final and then he bounced back the next week against Port and Bevo had a pot shot at Kane after the game.)

It is really personal with Kane and his double standard with Hinkley who has coached longer than Bevo without ever getting Port to a GF and has had less finals appearances is hypocrisy at scale.

(I know, I know, I need to remember he is just playing the heel as always).

I believe Kane is going after him because of the way he has handled the media. Like him or not it's been extremely poor. I hate the media as much as the next guy but it's a necessary evil and we need to get better working with them. I'm surprised they haven't come out harder at him after yesterday.

[jeemak]

I believe Kane is going after him because Kane's a **** who is in it for the money. Like him or not it's been extremely poor. I hate the media as much as the next guy but it's a necessary evil and we need to get better working with them. I'm surprised they haven't come out harder at him after yesterday.

He's been nothing but respectful with the media this year.

Anyway, I've fixed your first sentence.

[G-Mo77]

He's been nothing but respectful with the media this year.

Anyway, I've fixed your first sentence.

First sentence fix I'm fine with mate. He's been better but we still need to work on it.

[jeemak]

First sentence fix I'm fine with mate. He's been better but we still need to work on it.

I agree - it's a work in progress.

We can have our differences of opinions about Kane and still get along, I'm sure.

[bulldogtragic]

I agree - it's a work in progress.

We can have our differences of opinions about Kane and still get along, I'm sure.

Don?t be so sure. Kane still don?t get along or moved on with Will Minson.

Minson was right, why was Cornes playing footy when as Minno pointed out ?Shouldn?t you be home with your dying son?? (Who survived despite his dad prioritising footy over possible last memories)

Or are sledges only for Cornes to dish out?

[jeemak]

Don?t be so sure. Kane still don?t get along or moved on with Will Minson.

Minson was right, why was Cornes playing footy when as Minno pointed out ?Shouldn?t you be home with your dying son??

Or are sledges only for Cornes to dish out?

I get the feeling that with his hard and traditional views, Kane would think children are for the women to look after while the men toil in the fields.

[bulldogtragic]

I get the feeling that with his hard and traditional views, Kane would think children are for the women to look after while the men toil in the fields.

Minno copped it. But I think it’s a fair sledge. But Cornes is still actually banging on about it. Likes to take easy shots for the headlines, just is surprisingly think skinned himself. Maybe the truth hurts most.

[anfo27]

Caro

"I hear there is disaffected players this year, we know what happened with Dunkley last year, we are not sure what Bailey Smiths future is, we don' know how Adam Treloar is feeling, will Tim English accept a big offer to go and play for the West Coast and a general dissatisfaction with the lack of cohesion and consistency in form and selection. Thank heavens Bevo has Marcus Bontempelli who has been his great leader and supporter throughout all of this."

Is this really hard to guess? The evidence has been there all year for all to see. Hard for players to play well if they are not happy going to work. I'm not in the club so have no idea what is going on but I can see what they produce on the field & I don't see a happy playing group.

[SonofScray]

Media pundits, who cares what their perception is?

Those two are a case of a broken clock being right twice a day re: Bevo, and even then, their critique is askew.

We are immersed in this club, we see it.

[Vred]

Playing group wants Ameet and Grant to go, they want Bevo to stay, mostly sparked by the treating of Rohan Smith, no one wants him to leave but the board/CEO.

This is coming directly from a player.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Playing group wants Ameet and Grant to go, they want Bevo to stay, mostly sparked by the treating of Rohan Smith, no one wants him to leave but the board/CEO.

This is coming directly from a player.

Well, we always knew they were a sensitive bunch who specialise in deflecting blame.

More impetus to blow this playing list up.

[jeemak]

Well, we always knew they were a sensitive bunch who specialise in deflecting blame.

More impetus to blow this playing list up.

Player empowerment has a dark side.

Players have issues with pragmatism and an inability to understand their lanes versus those they want to run in. It's actually not a bad thing most of the time, because it means they're passionate and loyal. Invested.

But the unhelpfulness normally shines through in the end.

[1eyedog]

Playing group wants Ameet and Grant to go, they want Bevo to stay, mostly sparked by the treating of Rohan Smith, no one wants him to leave but the board/CEO.

This is coming directly from a player.

I'd suggest the players have little to do with Bains and Grant has been Bevo's biggest supporter. Granty would read the room alright I reckon and know if the players are committed to Bevo.

Who would have sacked Bubba? Grant? If so, big move firing your mate it shows spine and a club first mentality. Was it the right move? Remains to be seen but Bubba has been here a long, long time. The players need to understand that they are culpable and that their actions on the field can have serious consequences off it.

Also, you can't f*%$en Ides of March Granty. I wont stand for that. The only way Grant leaves is if a thourough independent review recommends it. If you thought it was hard emotionally to shaft Bubba you ain't seen nothing yet re. firing Grant. The players forcing Grant out is club implosion type stuff.

Grant's removal needs to come from outside the club or he simply walks. It needs to be done properly and with respect. If it's required I hope it's part of the recommendations.

Bains I couldn't give two shites about.

[bulldogtragic]

Telling you, Shocktober vibes.

[jazzadogs]

Minno copped it. But I think it?s a fair sledge. But Cornes is still actually banging on about it. Likes to take easy shots for the headlines, just is surprisingly think skinned himself. Maybe the truth hurts most.

Don't think the thread needs to continue to be derailed here, but feel I need to say that it's not a fair sledge at all to reference someone's unwell son, and if the roles were reversed we would crucify Kornes for being so disrespectful.

I wouldn't forget a sledge like that either, and I think being offended by someone attacking your parenting and your son during a football match is very different to a football commentator sharing (sensationalist) views on football.

[bulldogtragic]

Don't think the thread needs to continue to be derailed here, but feel I need to say that it's not a fair sledge at all to reference someone's unwell son, and if the roles were reversed we would crucify Kornes for being so disrespectful.

I wouldn't forget a sledge like that either, and I think being offended by someone attacking your parenting and your son during a football match is very different to a football commentator sharing (sensationalist) views on football.

We won’t derail it, but agree to disagree. I think it was squarely aimed at his choice to play a game of footy rather than be with his sick son. But I digress.

Game on.

[SonofScray]

Playing group wants Ameet and Grant to go, they want Bevo to stay, mostly sparked by the treating of Rohan Smith, no one wants him to leave but the board/CEO.

This is coming directly from a player.
He?s too close to the playing group. Commented earlier on how what gets put out as his strength can easily be reframed as a lack of professional boundaries. Behaviourally, that?s on him, structurally though the right set up would have made it easier to manage those boundaries, which is on Bains and Grant.

This is going to be a real problem.

[chef]

Telling you, Shocktober vibes.

Bont and Bevo gone?

[GVGjr]

Playing group wants Ameet and Grant to go, they want Bevo to stay, mostly sparked by the treating of Rohan Smith, no one wants him to leave but the board/CEO.

This is coming directly from a player.

Vred, thanks for the updates. If I can be so bold but is this information coming directly from the player to you or via someone else?

I got to see how good Smith was with his players over the preseason so I'm sure some players will be very sorry to know that he is going.

If one thing is becoming evident after the news that Smith is departing is that we can bury the notion that Bevo wields too much power. All the day-to-day footy decisions would still be under Bevo's control but clearly Grant has a vision for the strategic direction of the footy department and he is starting to implement it now.
It will be fascinating to see how we set-up the footy department for next season.

[bulldogtragic]

Bont and Bevo gone?

Not Bont I wouldn’t think. But everything else sounds like it’s a tinder box. One spark and everything goes up. Then who knows. If some people don’t fall on swords and this gets done orderly and we can manage stakeholders and spin the narrative, then it will a red hot mess like Shocktober. I just don’t like all the different things coming out of lots of different sources. I’ve got a bad feeling. It might be good long term, Shocktober took us to a flag. But won’t be fun at this rate.

[GVGjr]

Telling you, Shocktober vibes.

I'm not getting that vibe BT, this is what would be happening at a lot of clubs but it's becoming a bigger news story for us because we aren't performing to expectations.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm not getting that vibe BT, this is what would be happening at a lot of clubs but it's becoming a bigger news story for us because we aren't performing to expectations.

I’m not reading the news about it. I’m just getting a sense of a bad period ahead.

[bulldogtragic]

Post 1,000 twice in a week!!!