Sharp Axes

[G-Mo77]

Not sure why players would take aim at Bains and Grant? I've never been inside a footy club but you'd think day to day they would have very little to do with them. If it's to do with Bubba being sacked, well that's probably because of the way the team has performed. Do they think we should just continue to sit on hands and roll the exact same thing out again next season?

[Grantysghost]

Not sure why players would take aim at Bains and Grant? I've never been inside a footy club but you'd think day to day they would have very little to do with them. If it's to do with Bubba being sacked, well that's probably because of the way the team has performed. Do they think we should just continue to sit on hands and roll the exact same thing out again next season?

The entire group made me laugh.

Anyone who's been around a footy club knows they arent that united.

Rory Lobb is upset because a defensive coach was not renewed? My word.

As for Ameet I've dealt with him a few times and had some casual conversations at functions (mainly about Newcastle United) and we are in really good hands.

Club is doing very well off field.

[chef]

Not Bont I wouldn’t think. But everything else sounds like it’s a tinder box. One spark and everything goes up. Then who knows. If some people don’t fall on swords and this gets done orderly and we can manage stakeholders and spin the narrative, then it will a red hot mess like Shocktober. I just don’t like all the different things coming out of lots of different sources. I’ve got a bad feeling. It might be good long term, Shocktober took us to a flag. But won’t be fun at this rate.

I guess for it to be as bad as Shocktober he'd have to walk.

[Grantysghost]

I guess for it to be as bad as Shocktober he'd have to walk.

I did speak with him recently and when I said the words Gold and coast not in that order one of his eyebrows lifted.
Damn it chef you're right!

[JanLorMill]

We should let Bains run another Sham review this year again.

[Grantysghost]

Don't think the thread needs to continue to be derailed here, but feel I need to say that it's not a fair sledge at all to reference someone's unwell son, and if the roles were reversed we would crucify Kornes for being so disrespectful.

I wouldn't forget a sledge like that either, and I think being offended by someone attacking your parenting and your son during a football match is very different to a football commentator sharing (sensationalist) views on football.

Yes Minson crossed the line that was disgusting.

[GVGjr]

Not sure why players would take aim at Bains and Grant? I've never been inside a footy club but you'd think day to day they would have very little to do with them. If it's to do with Bubba being sacked, well that's probably because of the way the team has performed. Do they think we should just continue to sit on hands and roll the exact same thing out again next season?

I could perhaps understand a disconnect with Grant if he is starting to impose himself on the footy department in an unpopular manner but I very much doubt Bains or any of the directors being the target of the playing group.

Bubba coming out of contract at the wrong time matched against a likely change in the strategic direction of the club for the footy department is probably the main reason why he won't be a part of it going forward.

[bulldogtragic]

I guess for it to be as bad as Shocktober he'd have to walk.

The only thing saving us is he’s a stand up guy who loves captaining this club… unlike…

[JanLorMill]

President Invisible again too busy wooing the corporates rather than helping out in a possible crisis?

[bulldogtragic]

The only thing saving us is he’s a stand up guy who loves captaining this club… unlike…

Also the club backed in BMAC. It wasn’t until Stringer and other young guns told Garlick that the coach was the wrong guy for the job. So you can back in the coach, but if the young guns say they want out, then it’s messy again.

[bulldogtragic]

President Invisible again too busy wooing the corporates rather than helping out in a possible crisis?

Fairs fair. She doesn’t hold the fire hose.

[D Mitchell]

Playing group wants Ameet and Grant to go, they want Bevo to stay, mostly sparked by the treating of Rohan Smith, no one wants him to leave but the board/CEO.

This is coming directly from a player.

No reflection at all on you or your source, Vred, and thankyou for the insight. These are highly paid professionals on regular display to the public. Dissatisfaction with administration can't be an explanation for poor performance. If the players lose confidence in the coach and become reluctant to fully implement his instructions, it's more understandable but the General Manager in particular and the Football Director ? If the players are all behind the coach, why would they underperform ?

[chef]

The only thing saving us is he’s a stand up guy who loves captaining this club… unlike…

We are it great hands player wise, he wont do a Griffen.

[bulldogtragic]

We are it great hands player wise, he wont do a Griffen.

Yep, he’s built of better stuff as a club leader.

But I wouldn’t write off a really messy period. Something stinks and is not right at the club. The only real time players can force the issue if they’re unhappy about things is between now and the end of the trade period.

[azabob]

Glad to see we spent a good 2-3 pages complaining about Cornes and Wilson.

Are they wrong it what they said, or we just don't like who said it?

Clearly there is player unrest otherwise we wouldn't be shitting the bed every week.
Clearly there is a power struggle at the top.

Posters come for David King when he points out flaws onfield which are clear as day to see.

The one thing that is also clear is AP loves to troll this entire board by posting the media grabs via links and the commentary in written word form!

If I was Rocket Science I would insert AP Popcorn emoji here!

[angelopetraglia]

It does feel like a really unsettled period. In more ways than one.

When will the Whitten Oval construction be fully complete? It does look like we are going to have a truly world class facility that can compete with what any club in the land has with the bonus of still being at our original spiritual home. Hopefully that can play a role in keeping and attracting talent.

[azabob]

Also the club backed in BMAC. It wasn’t until Stringer and other young guns told Garlick that the coach was the wrong guy for the job. So you can back in the coach, but if the young guns say they want out, then it’s messy again.

In hindsight I'm not sure Stringer should have been the beacon of right and wrong!

[bulldogtragic]

In hindsight I'm not sure Stringer should have been the beacon of right and wrong!

True, but he was right. The coach had to go, despite being signed up early for too long.

[azabob]

True, but he was right. The coach had to go, despite being signed up early for too long.

Obviously hindsight suggests it was the right move and my line RE Stringer was more throwaway than anything.

[bulldogtragic]

Obviously hindsight suggests it was the right move and my line RE Stringer was more throwaway than anything.

Got that, was funny too.

[Sedat]

Playing group wants Ameet and Grant to go, they want Bevo to stay, mostly sparked by the treating of Rohan Smith, no one wants him to leave but the board/CEO.

This is coming directly from a player.
It's a positive that Bevo hasn't lost the players. Now if only they played like it.

[ledge]

Thought I saw somewhere that another club was chasing Baines.
TBH playing bad for a coach you like doesn?t make sense, it would get the coach sacked not the admin.
Most of us played football and what happened within the management walls made no difference to how we played football.
Apart from that Grant and Baines would have been the ones crossing the Ts on all the contracts. Would think the players would be happy with them.
Didn?t someone post here somewhere that we were also looking at changing Bevos role and being more like an EPL manager ? If that?s so well changes are being made.

[bornadog]

It does feel like a really unsettled period. In more ways than one.

When will the Whitten Oval construction be fully complete? It does look like we are going to have a truly world class facility that can compete with what any club in the land has with the bonus of still being at our original spiritual home. Hopefully that can play a role in keeping and attracting talent.

Early next year

[josie]

We aren’t losing by massive margins. I’m guessing the players or most of them are still listening to Bevo. We’re all stabbing in the dark as to inner club reasons why we continue to perform poorly. Major review led by external person(s) is what we need. If it’s the wrong time to do it and it potentially negatively impacts next season that’s a bitter pill we have to swallow. I want forensically logical and sound methods, not knee jerk response. If we lose some members for a while rather than meet their calls to sack Bevo without good reason we’ll have to swallow that too. I do hope if Bevo stays he opens up to tagging players that are ripping us up though.

[bornadog]

We aren’t losing by massive margins. I’m guessing the players or most of them are still listening to Bevo. We’re all stabbing in the dark as to inner club reasons why we continue to perform poorly. Major review led by external person(s) is what we need. If it’s the wrong time to do it and it potentially negatively impacts next season that’s a bitter pill we have to swallow. I want forensically logical and sound methods, not knee jerk response. If we lose some members for a while rather than meet their calls to sack Bevo without good reason we’ll have to swallow that too. I do hope if Bevo stays he opens up to tagging players that are ripping us up though.

Good post Josie.

We need to find out why we can't finish the job with so many games under a goal. If we were getting thrashed every week like under Rhode and BMacc, I would be the first to say time for a change.

[Boots]

We aren’t losing by massive margins. I’m guessing the players or most of them are still listening to Bevo. We’re all stabbing in the dark as to inner club reasons why we continue to perform poorly. Major review led by external person(s) is what we need. If it’s the wrong time to do it and it potentially negatively impacts next season that’s a bitter pill we have to swallow. I want forensically logical and sound methods, not knee jerk response. If we lose some members for a while rather than meet their calls to sack Bevo without good reason we’ll have to swallow that too. I do hope if Bevo stays he opens up to tagging players that are ripping us up though.

Agree Josie - we're reading a bunch of possibly disconnected things as signs of a vast conspiracy. This could all go terribly and we could have a new coach by next year, or it could be just what it looks like - a few bad losses, some motivational problems, and a bit of noise from some high-profile trades.

Bevo's style is as a motivational coach. It means he tries to grab on to whatever is going on inside his players' heads and act as a multiplier for their positive traits. It works super well when they're up, but when they are down - or when he's down - it's ineffective. What we're seeing is consistent with a coach and players struggling with a big shift in game plan (from run and gun to chip and mark) that failed and needed tweaks on the fly.

That doesn't mean it won't all explode - it might be as bad as it looks. But a bit of calm here won't hurt. We're just going a bit mad in the absence of more info and the looming end of a poor season.

Two other things:
- KWW isnt' a problem. For every Smorgon and Gordon there's a Kennet, Macguire, Sayers, or Brasher. I'd vastly prefer a silent President to a lunatic, racist, grifter, or bungler. Even if she does start making public pronouncements, she won't say anything we want her to, and you'll complain about that. She doesn't fire and hire people (other than Baines), so she can't solve Grant or Bevo.
- I really don't understand the Kornes hate either. He was super reasonable in that Footy Classified segment, and the others called him out on his more controversial takes (which amounted to 'sack the coach', a point many of us make on a daily basis). As far as journalism goes, it was fine.

[Mantis]

We aren’t losing by massive margins. I’m guessing the players or most of them are still listening to Bevo. We’re all stabbing in the dark as to inner club reasons why we continue to perform poorly. Major review led by external person(s) is what we need. If it’s the wrong time to do it and it potentially negatively impacts next season that’s a bitter pill we have to swallow. I want forensically logical and sound methods, not knee jerk response. If we lose some members for a while rather than meet their calls to sack Bevo without good reason we’ll have to swallow that too. I do hope if Bevo stays he opens up to tagging players that are ripping us up though.

Whilst we do need to find a way to shut down the opposition's influential players, we need a complete change in mindset across the entire as our work to a man without the ball is pitiful.

[bornadog]

- KWW isnt' a problem. For every Smorgon and Gordon there's a Kennet, Macguire, Sayers, or Brasher. I'd vastly prefer a silent President to a lunatic, racist, grifter, or bungler. Even if she does start making public pronouncements, she won't say anything we want her to, and you'll complain about that. She doesn't fire and hire people (other than Baines), so she can't solve Grant or Bevo.

I can't see the issue with KWW either. The President is almost a figure head and represents the club overall, not football decisions.

KWW grew up going to the Western Oval as it was known and standing with her family watching games. She is a through and through who just happens to have worked her way up to head a major Global company for the Asia Pacific region.

Alot of the fights with the AFL which Smorgon and Gordon had were necessary at the time, but there are few battles to be fought these days. (other than pathetic fixturing which is on going). Baring a major disaster at the club, I am happy with her performance.

[mjp]

Whilst we do need to find a way to shut down the opposition's influential players, we need a complete change in mindset across the entire as our work to a man without the ball is pitiful.

LOL - I love it mate.

I was in a coaches box maybe 6 weeks ago and the senior coach said (they were winning):

"After the game I want all of those mids to line up and just ADMIT that 'xxxxx' is a good player. I just want them to bloody well acknowledge it because no-one has gone near him ALL DAY".

It was a 5+ goal win but just the "I want them to just acknowledge it" had me laughing and thinking of our own problems with oppo mids running around with very little physical pressure.

[JanLorMill]

We aren?t losing by massive margins.
That?s a relief.
Enough losing home games to bottom teams.

[Mantis]

LOL - I love it mate.

I was in a coaches box maybe 6 weeks ago and the senior coach said (they were winning):

"After the game I want all of those mids to line up and just ADMIT that 'xxxxx' is a good player. I just want them to bloody well acknowledge it because no-one has gone near him ALL DAY".

It was a 5+ goal win but just the "I want them to just acknowledge it" had me laughing and thinking of our own problems with oppo mids running around with very little physical pressure.

The ease at which the opposition moves the move ball and the freedom given to all opposing players is quite frankly embarrassing... it's come to a head over the last 2 weeks against 2 of the worst teams in the competition when our players have flat out refused to defend.. and from where I am sitting, it seems it's tolerated.

There really should be 4-6 changes this week, but it's too far gone now.

[DOG GOD]

The ease at which the opposition moves the move ball and the freedom given to all opposing players is quite frankly embarrassing... it's come to a head over the last 2 weeks against 2 of the worst teams in the competition when our players have flat out refused to defend.. and from where I am sitting, it seems it's tolerated.

There really should be 4-6 changes this week, but it's too far gone now.
Our MC can drop others in a blink of an eye, but god help if you are a ?name?. U seem to get free reign. For starters Smith and macrae should not be playing this week, but it?s a god given they will.

[Sedat]

The ease at which the opposition moves the move ball and the freedom given to all opposing players is quite frankly embarrassing... it's come to a head over the last 2 weeks against 2 of the worst teams in the competition when our players have flat out refused to defend.. and from where I am sitting, it seems it's tolerated.

There really should be 4-6 changes this week, but it's too far gone now.
What happened from R3-11? We were very hard to move the ball against in that stretch where we only lost one match (in Adelaide against Port). It is probably the best stretch of defending when we didn't have the ball during our entire tenure under Bevo. Is it as simple as Jones getting injured, who was covering a lot of our previous sins?

[bornadog]

What happened from R3-11? We were very hard to move the ball against in that stretch where we only lost one match (in Adelaide against Port). It is probably the best stretch of defending when we didn't have the ball during our entire tenure under Bevo. Is it as simple as Jones getting injured, who was covering a lot of our previous sins?

Don't forget we lost Jones and Richards, followed by JJ

Not sure why we haven't recovered from that position.

[Sedat]

Don't forget we lost Jones and Richards, followed by JJ

Not sure why we haven't recovered from that position.
That would explain our lack of run out of D50, but we were full-ground defending very well in that stretch. The mids and wings appeared to be running hard defensively to support the backline, our D50 ground positioning wasn't overly-aggressive so we were defending turnover much better, and our forwards were applying AFL standard pressure to ensure repeat F50 entries.

Personnel issues are a factor but the drop off in effort when we don't have the ball has been pretty evident in many games in the back-end of the season.

[bornadog]

That would explain our lack of run out of D50, but we were full-ground defending very well in that stretch. The mids and wings appeared to be running hard defensively to support the backline, our D50 ground positioning wasn't overly-aggressive so we were defending turnover much better, and our forwards were applying AFL standard pressure to ensure repeat F50 entries.

Personnel issues are a factor but the drop off in effort when we don't have the ball has been pretty evident in many games in the back-end of the season.

Looking at our losses this year, we have only had 2 scores above 100 points. The issue in those losses has been scoring, especially over the past 4 losses that have been around a goal defeat. In those losses Naughton has kicked 3, 1, 0, 1. Weightman 1,1,0,1, JUH 1,0,2,1

[jeemak]

That would explain our lack of run out of D50, but we were full-ground defending very well in that stretch. The mids and wings appeared to be running hard defensively to support the backline, our D50 ground positioning wasn't overly-aggressive so we were defending turnover much better, and our forwards were applying AFL standard pressure to ensure repeat F50 entries.

Personnel issues are a factor but the drop off in effort when we don't have the ball has been pretty evident in many games in the back-end of the season.

Bevo went mad and told them all to stop running defensively and defending assertively.

[1eyedog]

What happened from R3-11? We were very hard to move the ball against in that stretch where we only lost one match (in Adelaide against Port). It is probably the best stretch of defending when we didn't have the ball during our entire tenure under Bevo. Is it as simple as Jones getting injured, who was covering a lot of our previous sins?

Would love to know. Assume the club identified it and are trying to implement tweaks to right the ship. The tweaks may be just creating more confusion and uncertainty now though.

[Hot_Doggies]

What happened from R3-11? We were very hard to move the ball against in that stretch where we only lost one match (in Adelaide against Port). It is probably the best stretch of defending when we didn't have the ball during our entire tenure under Bevo. Is it as simple as Jones getting injured, who was covering a lot of our previous sins?

We did tighten up. We also played some weak sides and others in favourable conditions for low scoring. Port Adelaide, GWS very wet. Freo and Carlton at rock bottom to name a few.

[1eyedog]

We did tighten up. We also played some weak sides and others in favourable conditions for low scoring. Port Adelaide, GWS very wet. Freo and Carlton at rock bottom to name a few.

But we were winning. We're playing the weakest sides right now and losing.

[Danjul]

Would love to know. Assume the club identified it and are trying to implement tweaks to right the ship. The tweaks may be just creating more confusion and uncertainty now though.
The wins stopped when we dropped Baker. Our fastest through the midfield.

He had been in good form gaining hundreds of metres to get the ball to the forwards quickly. Prepared to take a bounce. Nice delivery to forwards (usually).

22 possessions against Geelong, in a game we could have easily won, and discarded.

[1eyedog]

Yeah I'm not convinced dropping Baker was the reason we all started having front row seats to the shit show.

Jones, JJ and Richards injuries hurt they are three quality starting backs. Perhaps this combined with some absolutely deplorable kicking at goal across the last third of the season has something to do with it as well.

[Danjul]

Yeah I'm not convinced dropping Baker was the reason we all started having front row seats to the shit show.

Jones, JJ and Richards injuries hurt they are three quality starting backs. Perhaps this combined with some absolutely deplorable kicking at goal across the last third of the season has something to do with it as well.
We were competitive against Port, but when you look closely at it we were missing Jj and Richards . Two runners. So we dropped Baker to exacerbate the problem.

Look at the GWS game. No Jj, no Richards and Baker dropped after being sub the week before. So No leg speed.

Then, as you say, very poor goal kicking. Well actually, erratic goal kicking.

The forwards had some good hauls, for example JUH got 12 against Freo, Essendon and Richmond but failed when it counted. Weightman similarly. Against GWS the whole forward line contributed only 2 goals for the whole game.

[Hotdog60]

Possible Bubba being let go could be he's too close to the players. It's like when a manager is too friendly and the staff stuff up and because your too involve you can't rip them a good one.
Coaches can be friendly but best mates have trouble laying down the law or if they do the mate doesn't take it seriously.

[Danjul]

Possible Bubba being let go could be he's too close to the players. It's like when a manager is too friendly and the staff stuff up and because your too involve you can't rip them a good one.
Coaches can be friendly but best mates have trouble laying down the law or if they do the mate doesn't take it seriously.
But was the backline the problem.

I thought they held up well despite significant injuries. None of the opposition teams kicked massive scores against them. Our losses came from the forwards.

[bornadog]

But was the backline the problem.

I thought they held up well despite significant injuries. None of the opposition teams kicked massive scores against them. Our losses came from the forwards.

I said something similar in post #1036

[Hotdog60]

But was the backline the problem.

I thought they held up well despite significant injuries. None of the opposition teams kicked massive scores against them. Our losses came from the forwards.

They have done well considering but there have also been some howlers down there.

[Vred]

Meanwhile, two separate posters on BigFooty reporting the following;

Bevo has been offered a Severence that would see him paid 50% P/A for the life of his contract or until he took a role equal or higher within the AFL industry, he turned it down.

B.Smith is getting interest but not from Geelong.

Treloar is getting interest from the Suns as they look to win finals, Hardwick wants to make and win finals as soon as next year so they will be aggressive this trade period.

English is still a waiting game. He has been given a Large offer from a Vic club.

Lade has another year to go on his contract aswell, he has been offered a change of role but turned it down

[DOG GOD]

I’m still thinking syd would love a Bailey smith.

[macca]

I’m still thinking syd would love a Bailey smith.

Sydney have a habit of improving players in some way.
just look at the improvement in Hickey and Patty McCartin

[bulldogtragic]

Meanwhile, two separate posters on BigFooty reporting the following;

Bevo has been offered a Severence that would see him paid 50% P/A for the life of his contract or until he took a role equal or higher within the AFL industry, he turned it down.

B.Smith is getting interest but not from Geelong.

Treloar is getting interest from the Suns as they look to win finals, Hardwick wants to make and win finals as soon as next year so they will be aggressive this trade period.

English is still a waiting game. He has been given a Large offer from a Vic club.

Lade has another year to go on his contract aswell, he has been offered a change of role but turned it down

If Bevo honestly believes he’s the right man, why would he give back one dollar, when the club voluntarily signed him early?

Why would Lade change roles if he has a contract?

Smith, English & Treloar. Well. If the return is good enough, the club can sell hope with those picks. But no substantial changes to players or coaches is a footy death sentence. Is it too much to ask Peter Gordon to come back to get the shop back in shape? Happy to pass a Putin amendment to the constitution to give him the presidency for life if he comes back.

[Vred]

If Bevo honestly believes he’s the right man, why would he give back one dollar, when the club voluntarily signed him early?

Why would Lade change roles if he has a contract?

Smith, English & Treloar. Well. If the return is good enough, the club can sell hope with those picks. But no substantial changes to players or coaches is a footy death sentence. Is it too much to ask Peter Gordon to come back to get the shop back in shape? Happy to pass a Putin amendment to the constitution to give him the presidency for life if he comes back.

I'd like nothing more than seeing PG back at the club, sadly too busy at Gordon Legal these days

[D Mitchell]

If Bevo honestly believes he?s the right man, why would he give back one dollar, when the club voluntarily signed him early?

Why would Lade change roles if he has a contract?

Smith, English & Treloar. Well. If the return is good enough, the club can sell hope with those picks. But no substantial changes to players or coaches is a footy death sentence. Is it too much to ask Peter Gordon to come back to get the shop back in shape? Happy to pass a Putin amendment to the constitution to give him the presidency for life if he comes back.

Smorgo. Much and all that I respect Peter Gordon for his efforts in the Takeover saga, Smorgo's the better choice. He pulled the Club together, rebuilt it and handed the finished product to Gordon to enjoy the fruits. If there really is a crisis, I'm not yet convinced, perhaps a Channel 9 confecture, and if we go back to former Presidents, it's Smorgo.

[Boots]

Meanwhile, two separate posters on BigFooty reporting the following;

Bevo has been offered a Severence that would see him paid 50% P/A for the life of his contract or until he took a role equal or higher within the AFL industry, he turned it down.

B.Smith is getting interest but not from Geelong.

Treloar is getting interest from the Suns as they look to win finals, Hardwick wants to make and win finals as soon as next year so they will be aggressive this trade period.

English is still a waiting game. He has been given a Large offer from a Vic club.

Lade has another year to go on his contract aswell, he has been offered a change of role but turned it down

That thread is a bit of a bin fire. Obviously I have no way to know if they're right or wrong but in the last day it's gone from "Bevo safe, Lade safe, Sam Power being headhunted for Tassie" to "Bevo severance package, half the squad being courted". They can't decide if the playerbase is fractured, or if it hates Bevo, Baines or KWW. Bont has gone to everyone's office and he's also Bevo's mate... total mess.

I would caution calm until we get something a bit firmer.

[GVGjr]

Meanwhile, two separate posters on BigFooty reporting the following;

Bevo has been offered a Severence that would see him paid 50% P/A for the life of his contract or until he took a role equal or higher within the AFL industry, he turned it down.

B.Smith is getting interest but not from Geelong.

Treloar is getting interest from the Suns as they look to win finals, Hardwick wants to make and win finals as soon as next year so they will be aggressive this trade period.

English is still a waiting game. He has been given a Large offer from a Vic club.

Lade has another year to go on his contract aswell, he has been offered a change of role but turned it down
Vred, thanks for sharing with these BF rumours but we need to be a bit careful as a previous collection were clearly incorrect. Some of these look a bit too far fetched to be treated or taken too seriously at the moment.

[ledge]

I thought BF was banned from this forum .
Isn’t it a load of over the top rumour mongers ?

[GVGjr]

I thought BF was banned from this forum .
Isn’t it a load of over the top rumour mongers ?

Absolutely not, we share many fine members and there will of course be a crossover of content.
On this issue, some of the rumors being shared appear to be off the mark.
Lets leave it at that.

[azabob]

I thought BF was banned from this forum .
Isn’t it a load of over the top rumour mongers ?

No ledge it is not.

BF posters are welcome on woof with open arms.

[Axe Man]

Meanwhile, two separate posters on BigFooty reporting the following;

Bevo has been offered a Severence that would see him paid 50% P/A for the life of his contract or until he took a role equal or higher within the AFL industry, he turned it down.

According to the HUN:


Beveridge has two more seasons left on his deal but as an ?assisted? club relying on AFL funding he would have a six-month payout figure if the Dogs moved him on.

If I understand that correctly we would only need to pay him out 6 months worth of his contract, rather than 12 months worth suggested in this BF rumour.

[ledge]

According to the HUN:



If I understand that correctly we would only need to pay him out 6 months worth of his contract, rather than 12 months worth suggested in this BF rumour.

Can’t see us sacking him if we only just put him on for two more years . I tend to believe Grants take on it.
I think this weeks game will give us an idea on whether there’s a huge problem . If we get smashed somethings up . Be interesting to see how the media react if we win and make finals.

[ledge]

I hope this is a Thompson / Hardwick scenario where there was media talk of them getting sacked then going on to win 3 flags by keeping them.

[bulldogtragic]

According to the HUN:



If I understand that correctly we would only need to pay him out 6 months worth of his contract, rather than 12 months worth suggested in this BF rumour.

Shit. We are still club assisted!

I thought those days were long gone!

But, six months. Done.

[G-Mo77]

Shit. We are still club assisted!

I thought those days were long gone!

But, six months. Done.

If it were to happen it would have been announced by now. We're going into 2024 with Bevo again, I'm so certain I'd put money on it. I don't think that is a good thing either.

[bulldogtragic]

If it were to happen it would have been announced by now. We're going into 2024 with Bevo again, I'm so certain I'd put money on it. I don't think that is a good thing either.

I suspect you are right, but I hope you are wrong. It took a lot to come back to footy and this side and if next year is more of the same, I’m not sure I can stomach it. Watching this side is a god damn joyless chore and destroyer of weekends. But they’ll probably go back to slotting us in at 4.40 on Sunday’s so I’ll be otherwise doing other things so it’s all good. No way Ch7 wants us stinking up their prime time.

[1eyedog]

No way Bevo is not coaching next year. After next season we'll know more and it will be far more palatable to have to pay him out one year rather than two.

The simple fact is if we have to give away hard earned money now all the slight profits we've made over the past 3-4 years will be pissed up against a wall.

That money has to come from somewhere within the club and we've also shelled out considerable funds to facilitate the re-development. No way Bains says paying Bevo a two years severance package is in anyway a good idea. No way Bevo takes a compromise and nor should he have to.

Only way is Bevo walks.

We've made our bed.

[Axe Man]

No way Bevo is not coaching next year. After next season we'll know more and it will be far more palatable to have to pay him out one year rather than two.

The simple fact is if we have to give away hard earned money now all the slight profits we've made over the past 3-4 years will be pissed up against a wall.

That money has to come from somewhere within the club and we've also shelled out considerable funds to facilitate the re-development. No way Bains says paying Bevo a two years severance package is in anyway a good idea. No way Bevo takes a compromise and nor should he have to.

Only way is Bevo walks.

We've made our bed.

Did you miss my post above - apparently we only have to pay him out 6 months regardless.

However, like others I also believe Bevo won't be going anywhere, at least for 2024.

[1eyedog]

According to the HUN:



If I understand that correctly we would only need to pay him out 6 months worth of his contract, rather than 12 months worth suggested in this BF rumour.

Not sure this is correct every club is assisted by the AFL. The Suns and GWS receive 25m p.a at the top and West Coast receive 11m p.a at the bottom. We're in the middle with the Demons on 16m p.a.

My understanding is any club turning a profit is expected to pay out their personnel if they chose to terminate a contract early.

[1eyedog]

Did you miss my post above - apparently we only have to pay him out 6 months regardless.

However, like others I also believe Bevo won't be going anywhere, at least for 2024.

Nope didn't miss it I'm just not certain that's correct.

[Axe Man]

Not sure this is correct every club is assisted by the AFL. The Suns and GWS receive 25m p.a at the top and West Coast receive 11m p.a at the bottom. We're in the middle with the Demons on 16m p.a.

My understanding is any club turning a profit is expected to pay out their personnel if they chose to terminate a contract early.

Fair enough, I've got no idea what the definition of an assisted club is, just going off the HUN article.

[GVGjr]

Not sure this is correct every club is assisted by the AFL. The Suns and GWS receive 25m p.a at the top and West Coast receive 11m p.a at the bottom. We're in the middle with the Demons on 16m p.a.

My understanding is any club turning a profit is expected to pay out their personnel if they chose to terminate a contract early.

I don't think what the Hun said is correct either. 9 years of consecutive profits, and very solid ones at that, I think would rule us out of
any escape clauses with coaching contracts.
I also believe we are spending close to our limits on the footy department in terms of the soft cap so payouts, no matter how big or small they might be, would have an impact on that for us.

Interesting times given the conflicting positions of what a payout might look like but I agree Bevo will be at the helm again next year unless he made a decision to leave.

[Sedat]

If Bevo survives the off-season (and my gut-feel is he probably does, rightly or wrongly), he surely understands the leg rope is much shorter now and the power balance has shifted internally. That means he needs to significantly adapt his coaching methodology to fully embrace the modern tactical advancements (by bringing in younger coaching talent from elsewhere who are at the forefront of this tactical landscape), and he also needs to respect that the current coaching structure is not delivering results and he needs another senior head for proper guidance and support in the box.

It's really up to Bevo - if the likes of Hardwick, Thompson and Goodwin can swallow their pride and adapt significantly to achieve almost immediate success, Bevo can as well. He doesn't have anything to lose really - he's playing with house money next year if he survives. More of the same will only shorten his tenure at the Dogs and make him far less attractive to future suitors.

[1eyedog]

Fair enough, I've got no idea what the definition of an assisted club is, just going off the HUN article.

The AFL paid Cameron out 50% of his contract in early 2022 for the remainder of the season and they also paid 50% of Dew's contract for the remainder of this year and next.

Neither club recorded a profit last financial.

[bornadog]

If Bevo survives the off-season (and my gut-feel is he probably does, rightly or wrongly), he surely understands the leg rope is much shorter now and the power balance has shifted internally. That means he needs to significantly adapt his coaching methodology to fully embrace the modern tactical advancements (by bringing in younger coaching talent from elsewhere who are at the forefront of this tactical landscape), and he also needs to respect that the current coaching structure is not delivering results and he needs another senior head for proper guidance and support in the box.

It's really up to Bevo - if the likes of Hardwick, Thompson and Goodwin can swallow their pride and adapt significantly to achieve almost immediate success, Bevo can as well. He doesn't have anything to lose really - he's playing with house money next year if he survives. More of the same will only shorten his tenure at the Dogs and make him far less attractive to future suitors.

Well put Sedat and hopefully he does adapt as we are just short of going the next step. Close enough is not good enough (6 games within 12 points) and we can't make excuses if it keeps happening.

[1eyedog]

If Bevo survives the off-season (and my gut-feel is he probably does, rightly or wrongly), he surely understands the leg rope is much shorter now and the power balance has shifted internally. That means he needs to significantly adapt his coaching methodology to fully embrace the modern tactical advancements (by bringing in younger coaching talent from elsewhere who are at the forefront of this tactical landscape), and he also needs to respect that the current coaching structure is not delivering results and he needs another senior head for proper guidance and support in the box.

It's really up to Bevo - if the likes of Hardwick, Thompson and Goodwin can swallow their pride and adapt significantly to achieve almost immediate success, Bevo can as well. He doesn't have anything to lose really - he's playing with house money next year if he survives. More of the same will only shorten his tenure at the Dogs and make him far less attractive to future suitors.

Good post agree 100% crazy Bevo having his fingers in all the pies is actually unhealthy. It's actually become toxic now and that's on Bevo.

The guy can coach and the players like him but he needs a slap across the back of the head and some seriously experienced coaching support.

[mjp]

No way Ch7 wants us stinking up their prime time.

A lot of what we see as 'stink' oppo supporters don't mind...

As a neutral, we offer:

Bont - best player in the comp.
Naughton - Likely to take mark of the year on any given week.
A team that hasn't lost by > 22 points since round 2.
A team that not many other supporters actually 'hate'. Sadly.

We're actually a GOOD team for prime-time.

The whole thing where everyone thinks we're underperforming? I think that's good in terms of primetime games...

[Rocco Jones]

A lot of what we see as 'stink' oppo supporters don't mind...

As a neutral, we offer:

Bont - best player in the comp.
Naughton - Likely to take mark of the year on any given week.
A team that hasn't lost by > 22 points since round 2.
A team that not many other supporters actually 'hate'. Sadly.

We're actually a GOOD team for prime-time.

The whole thing where everyone thinks we're underperforming? I think that's good in terms of primetime games...

Absolutely.

Bevo is a 'character' too. Pan to him.

[Eastdog]

If Bevo survives the off-season (and my gut-feel is he probably does, rightly or wrongly), he surely understands the leg rope is much shorter now and the power balance has shifted internally. That means he needs to significantly adapt his coaching methodology to fully embrace the modern tactical advancements (by bringing in younger coaching talent from elsewhere who are at the forefront of this tactical landscape), and he also needs to respect that the current coaching structure is not delivering results and he needs another senior head for proper guidance and support in the box.

It's really up to Bevo - if the likes of Hardwick, Thompson and Goodwin can swallow their pride and adapt significantly to achieve almost immediate success, Bevo can as well. He doesn't have anything to lose really - he's playing with house money next year if he survives. More of the same will only shorten his tenure at the Dogs and make him far less attractive to future suitors.

Like what you saying Sedat. This is my sentiment as well.

If Bevo doesn't go and it is likely he will stay on next year then this change needs to happen going forward.

We have underachieved the last 2 seasons 2022 and 2023. I think if it wasn't for 2021 Bevo might have been in bigger trouble with his position.

The risk is if this doesn't work out then you could see an implosion mid season 2024.

[MrMahatma]

A lot of what we see as 'stink' oppo supporters don't mind...

As a neutral, we offer:

Bont - best player in the comp.
Naughton - Likely to take mark of the year on any given week.
A team that hasn't lost by > 22 points since round 2.
A team that not many other supporters actually 'hate'. Sadly.

We're actually a GOOD team for prime-time.

The whole thing where everyone thinks we're underperforming? I think that's good in terms of primetime games...

Plus Baz. Instafamous!

[ReLoad]

Absolutely.

Bevo is a 'character' too. Pan to him.

is it just me or every time they pan to Bevo he looks like Homer Simpson trying to figure something out. Just sitting there showing zero emotion.

[Grantysghost]

is it just me or every time they pan to Bevo he looks like Homer Simpson trying to figure something out. Just sitting there showing zero emotion.

Ha, he does always look confused that is true.

Like he's looking for where he parked his car and can't quite locate it.

I think it's just his concentrating face.

[Sedat]

Like he's looking for where he parked his car and can't quite locate it.
Purple 23

[G-Mo77]

Purple 23

Haha. Nice one!

[Grantysghost]

Purple 23

He's got neuromisatisis!

[Axe Man]

THE THREE CONCERNING ASPECTS FOR THE BULLDOGS AND THE MAN WHO COULD FIX THEIR CULTURE (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/08/22/the-three-concerning-aspects-for-the-bulldogs-and-the-man-who-could-fix/)

The Western Bulldogs continue to struggle across key aspects of the game, according to Champion Data.

Over the last seven seasons, since the Bulldogs won the 2016 premiership, they have been below the top echelon of club in three specific areas.

Champion Data analyst Daniel Hoyne believes that under Luke Beveridge the Dogs have been below the best with their ability to deny opposition ball movement, denying inside 50 entries and scores, then winning the ball back off the opposition in defence.

“There’s been a really consistent theme in three critical aspects of the game,” Hoyne said on SEN’s Sportsday.

“Their inability to deny ball movement of the opposition from one end of the ground to the other. Only once in seven years have they ranked in the top seven teams in the competition. This year they’re eighth.

“It’s not disastrous but they’re just not in the top echelon.

“In seven of seven seasons since winning the flag, they have not ranked top six at conceding scores per entry (denying entries, then denying scores after the entry). Again this year they are outside that bracket, only marginally but again they’re outside that bracket.

“In terms of winning the ball back off the opposition close to goal, they have not been top six in any of their seasons since 2015. This year they’re 11th.”

The Dogs remain in the finals hunt in that they must beat Geelong this weekend and hope Carlton defeats GWS.

But if they do want to go deep in September they’ll have to fix these woes quickly and that starts with the side’s lesser name players stepping up and chopping out for the stars, says Hoyne.

“Everyone talks about the list, everyone talks about ‘Bont’ (Marcus Bontempelli), ‘Libba’ (Tom Liberatore), (Tim) English, the list can go on,” he added.

“I think it’s those role players on the periphery (that are important).

“The wingers play such a vital role to facilitate the absolute stars to let them do what they need to do and then these guys come in and do the dirty work.”

The Dogs have been criticised for underperforming under Beveridge in recent times.

Kane Cornes believes they own the best list in the AFL yet find themselves in the middle of the ladder and battling for a spot in the top eight.

There have been some murmurings of potential culture issues at The Kennel and in a bid to fix those, Cornes has the perfect person in mind.

Enter former Dogs captain Bob Murphy who is currently the head of footy at Fremantle.

“With the Bulldogs adamant they will stick with their coach Luke Beveridge, there is obviously going to be significant changes around him,” Cornes said.

“One person they should consider trying to poach back is the former captain Bob Murphy.

“If the culture, if the relationship between players and the coach - which is starting to come out publicly - is an issue, Bob Murphy is the perfect person to solve that.

“He is the ideal culture guy, leadership facilitator, assistant coach, all round good club person and they love him. Get him back in.

“I’ll be interested to ask Brad Johnson about that, if the Dogs could get Bob Murphy back from Fremantle and whether that would be a good addition to the football department staff.”

Murphy has been with the Dockers since late 2021 following a stint on SEN alongside Andy Maher.

The Doggies, on the back of their disappointing loss to West Coast, take on the Cats at GMHBA Stadium on Saturday night and anything less than a victory will end their season prematurely.

A win and then they’ll be closely watching the Blues v Giants clash on Sunday night.

[JanLorMill]

I think getting good people at the club is a great idea but it's all about Bevo's willingness to change. I don't see it.

[azabob]

I think getting good people at the club is a great idea but it's all about Bevo's willingness to change. I don't see it.

I agree. Bevo lives by the sword and will die by the sword. I can’t see him changing.

[Mantis]

I think getting good people at the club is a great idea but it's all about Bevo's willingness to change. I don't see it.

We have brought in 3 new assistant coaches over the past couple of seasons (Lade, Webb & Spangher) and there’s been no real change, other than personnel to the way we play.

So now do we just change the assistant coaches again and expect a different result?

[macca]

We have brought in 3 new assistant coaches over the past couple of seasons (Lade, Webb & Spangher) and there’s been no real change, other than personnel to the way we play.

So now do we just change the assistant coaches again and expect a different result?

We need a bad cop type asssitant , someone who calls it as it is, challenges the state of play and be upfront om some of th sh$#@???t coaching decisions
1. No tagger
2. Emphasis on good kicking
3. Teaching players to keep their balance and their feet. I see cody fall over too often
4. Get them to play with some aggression

[bulldogtragic]

We need a bad cop type asssitant , someone who calls it as it is, challenges the state of play and be upfront om some of th sh$#@???t coaching decisions
1. No tagger
2. Emphasis on good kicking
3. Teaching players to keep their balance and their feet. I see cody fall over too often
4. Get them to play with some aggression

5. Stick a ****ing tackle
6. Not fumble incessantly

Let’s see how many we can get to.

[Grantysghost]

5. Stick a ****ing tackle
6. Not fumble incessantly

Let’s see how many we can get to.

7. Put English forward instead of the fkn bench when we need goals!

[macca]

5. Stick a ****ing tackle
6. Not fumble incessantly

Let’s see how many we can get to.

How do you stop or reduce the fumbles?
Is it hand positioning ?
Is it getting players to see it earlier or look ahead ? I am not sure if that can be taught. Is it just instinct or nervousness ?
Are some players just so clean with the pickup and disposal ?
For some reason i think of Jong, he was clean with football which made him solid player when he was fit

I have confidence in West as he naturally has it. His goal lask week was brilliant and also his assit
Would love to hear some coaching insights into this.

[bulldogtragic]

7. Put English forward instead of the fkn bench when we need goals!

8. Inside 50’s to actual advantage
9. Cody not flopping for frees

[Grantysghost]

10. Drop the plus one in midfield if the opposition are utilising the extra in defence (see Quaynor v pies)

[bulldogtragic]

10. Drop the plus one in midfield if the opposition are utilising the extra in defence (see Quaynor v pies)

11. Stop shoehorning fringe mids into forward pockets

[Grantysghost]

11. Stop shoehorning fringe mids into forward pockets

12. Find a spot for Caleb. Stop screwing the guy about!

[bulldogtragic]

12. Find a spot for Caleb. Stop screwing the guy about!

13. Increase rotations in the centre square
14. Insist in selection integrity

[Grantysghost]

13. Increase rotations in the centre square

Like.

[Hotdog60]

15. Bailey Smith to hit a target inside 50 that's wearing red,white and blue

[Mantis]

12. Find a spot for Caleb. Stop screwing the guy about!

Do you think they’re not trying to find him a spot? He has played across all lines this year and whilst he’s performed well at times, there is a lack of consistency in his performance which has been detrimental to our performance.

He’s just a bit part player, with no defined role who somehow is at the start of a 5 year contract and a member of our leadership group.

[Grantysghost]

Do you think they’re not trying to find him a spot? He has played across all lines this year and whilst he’s performed well at times, there is a lack of consistency in his performance which has been detrimental to our performance.

He’s just a bit part player, with no defined role who somehow is at the start of a 5 year contract and a member of our leadership group.

That was a bit of a tongue in cheek thing Mantis.

I am concerned about his form, he's really dropped off.

[EasternWest]

15. Bailey Smith to hit a target

Amended for accuracy

[Bullies]

That was a bit of a tongue in cheek thing Mantis.

I am concerned about his form, he's really dropped off. Why do so many players drop off I wonder after signing 5 year deals.

[GVGjr]

Why do so many players drop off I wonder after signing 5 year deals.

We normally also see a better performance for players coming out of contract.
For a lot of people incentive is a powerful motivator and linked with performance.

[Bullies]

We normally also see a better performance for players coming out of contract.
For a lot of people incentive is a powerful motivator and linked with performance. I think you have to be elite to do 5 year deals. Too much can go wrong.

[doggies ftw]

We need a bad cop type asssitant , someone who calls it as it is, challenges the state of play and be upfront om some of th sh$#@???t coaching decisions
1. No tagger
2. Emphasis on good kicking
3. Teaching players to keep their balance and their feet. I see cody fall over too often
4. Get them to play with some aggression

Here?s an idea, if we get a head coach who doesn?t make as many shit coaching decisions, we won?t need an assistant who calls them out 😂 that should be the goal.

I keep seeing this sentiment - oh we need assistants that will make up for Bevos weaknesses, no lol we need a coach who doesn?t have Bevos weaknesses

[doggies ftw]

That was a bit of a tongue in cheek thing Mantis.

I am concerned about his form, he's really dropped off.
He’d be top 5 in our BNF this year, has had a fantastic year up until two weeks ago

[mjp]

I think you have to be elite to do 5 year deals. Too much can go wrong.

Daniel isn't elite?

[mjp]

I keep seeing this sentiment - oh we need assistants that will make up for Bevos weaknesses, no lol we need a coach who doesn?t have Bevos weaknesses

I'll bite.

Who?

[SonofScray]

I'll bite.

Who?

An unlikely outcome, but Buckley seems to have the colder streak about him. It’d be a huge swing from Bevo’s method in terms of relationships.

[doggies ftw]

I'll bite.

Who?

No idea, that’ll be decided by a selection panel of experienced people who a) know the landscape and who has had what roles at other successful clubs and b) will be privy to an application/presentation from said person as to their vision for the club.

Your standard punter, ie me & presumably everyone else here - will never know but that doesn’t mean there’s not a number options there. Did you know anything about Bev or say Mccrae before they were appointed? I sure didn’t.

There’s a number of guys who, from the outside, have had key roles at successful clubs ie Carr, Chaplin, Yze, etc who could all be options

[meenies]

15. Bailey Smith to hit a target inside 50 that's wearing red,white and blue
Ask him to aim for the opposition player when kicking it forward?

[D Mitchell]

Lay of young Smith. This young bloke wins his own ball, the hallmark of the 2016 team. That's the quality that has disappeared from the team ethos, why a team that should be verging on top 4 is unlikely to make top 8. OK, he's not, yet, Nathan Buckley, the best deliverer into the forward line I've ever seen but will anyone ever be that good ? 4 times U 22 selection.

[D Mitchell]

Thanks, Boots. I don't like his penchant for social media, 'tache or mullet but I love his footy.

[mjp]

No idea, that?ll be decided by a selection panel of experienced people who a) know the landscape and who has had what roles at other successful clubs and b) will be privy to an application/presentation from said person as to their vision for the club.

Your standard punter, ie me & presumably everyone else here - will never know but that doesn?t mean there?s not a number options there. Did you know anything about Bev or say Mccrae before they were appointed? I sure didn?t.

There?s a number of guys who, from the outside, have had key roles at successful clubs ie Carr, Chaplin, Yze, etc who could all be options

I mean no disrespect but this whole line of thinking reminds me of the "I'm someone else" scene from the Simpsons where Homer is elected as the manager of sanitation or whatever it is in Springfield - on the sole basis that "he's someone else". I do 100% agree that we (well, not you and me but the footy club) should work out whether or not Bevo is 'the man' and THEN look at the market vs doing what GC have done and appoint a coach without testing the market but at the same time, if we assume that the sum total of any coaches value is on display each Saturday afternoon then we're probably kidding ourselves. That might sound stupid after we've lost to the 16th and 18th placed teams two weeks in a row but...

I'll say it again but I can see reasons for Bevo to stay but at the same time understand why so many are frustrated with him right now - essentially I'm not scared of a change. But saying you want a coach (sorry, I refuse to say head coach 'cos it's just too American for me) who doesn't make as many 'shit decisions'...I kind of feel the opposite. I want a coach who is willing to risk it for the biscuit - I laugh about some elements of the Bevo era (and what I have called selection Bingo does drive me crazy) but say what you will, his willingness to be different is behind a lot of our success.

O'Donnell is the latest example but there have been a lot over the journey.

I mentioned this a few weeks back but in many ways I wish Bevo would RETURN to some of his old philosophies where we rotated so many more players through the centre square (Champion Data basically invented a position - mid forward - because of this back in 2015) rather than put so much load onto so few - but I suspect his lack of trust in the non-Bont brigade is part of this...In short - I think Bevo has the capacity within him to orchestrate a turn-around...but unity throughout the club - board, admin, footy staff and players is the first step. If that can't be achieved with him at the helm then I might be persuaded just to vote for 'someone else'.

[D Mitchell]

I'm with MJP here. I remember when we "rotated so many more players through the centre square (Champion Data basically invented a position - mid forward - because of this back in 2015)" a time when he turned a rising full back and an iffy tall forward into Premiership winning ruckmen, more for their work around the ground, particularly in the case of Boyd. I don't know what's going wrong but it can't be as simplistic as to blame the coach, especially this coach.

[lemmon]

I mentioned this a few weeks back but in many ways I wish Bevo would RETURN to some of his old philosophies where we rotated so many more players through the centre square (Champion Data basically invented a position - mid forward - because of this back in 2015) rather than put so much load onto so few - but I suspect his lack of trust in the non-Bont brigade is part of this...

Not on topic of the thread, but it's a totally bizarre change in philosophy when you consider that on-paper, the midfield/midfield players we've put out throughout 2023 is far superior to the midfield that played most of 2015.

The guys rolling through the midfield in the 2015 Elim Final against Adelaide were a second-year Bont, a third-year Macrae, Mitch Wallis, Picken, Dalhaus, Minson and Lin Jong. On paper at least, I don't think that midfield lays a glove on Treloar, Bont, Libba, Smith, Daniel, English and Macrae (though he's not what he was).

I'd have expected that with more talented midfield players on the park, you'd be more inclined to run more of them through the middle

[bornadog]

Not on topic of the thread, but it's a totally bizarre change in philosophy when you consider that on-paper, the midfield/midfield players we've put out throughout 2023 is far superior to the midfield that played most of 2015.

The guys rolling through the midfield in the 2015 Elim Final against Adelaide were a second-year Bont, a third-year Macrae, Mitch Wallis, Picken, Dalhaus, Minson and Lin Jong. On paper at least, I don't think that midfield lays a glove on Treloar, Bont, Libba, Smith, Daniel, English and Macrae (though he's not what he was).

I'd have expected that with more talented midfield players on the park, you'd be more inclined to run more of them through the middle

I said this a month or so ago, but do we think with Lade coming in and coaching midfield, that we have changed for the worst? Something is different this year and he is one change that I can think of that would influence midfield.

[D Mitchell]

Whilst it's not for me to be interpreting another bloke's posts, it's the Coach's work rather than the quality or experience of the players. Bev is prepared to push boundaries. Maybe an Eade is a better coach for this group than a Bev. Bev won us a flag in his second year.

[SonofScray]

John and Eade's defence of Bevo didn't fly with me.

Gist was, he should stay and, that if he can re-invent himself, change his methods, change his message, then we'll be ok.

Excuse me?

"Eade suggests Beveridge still has plenty to offer, but only if he can evolve, tweak things on the run and change his messaging."


He can still be a good coach, Bevo, all he has to do is stop being Bevo.

Strikes me that no-one linked to the club wants to be the one to shoot Bambi.

[Danjul]

Lay of young Smith. This young bloke wins his own ball, the hallmark of the 2016 team. That's the quality that has disappeared from the team ethos, why a team that should be verging on top 4 is unlikely to make top 8. OK, he's not, yet, Nathan Buckley, the best deliverer into the forward line I've ever seen but will anyone ever be that good ? 4 times U 22 selection.
All Smith has to do to be a consistent champion Is slow down. His focus on speed is the problem.

[JanLorMill]

He can still be a good coach, Bevo, all he has to do is stop being Bevo.

Strikes me that no-one linked to the club wants to be the one to shoot Bambi.
Baines and KWW have been proved to be either be invisible or not wanting to rock the boat.
Darcy and Grant are too close to Bevo.

[Boots]

So following the media stories and that ridiculous BigFooty thread, it seems like the most likely outcome is:

- Bevo stays
- new assistants, including perhaps one ex-senior coach if we're lucky
- possibly some change in the higher-level off-field execs

That feels like a good compromise! A bit of stability, a bit of change, the chance of a Hardwick-like recuperation or resurrection for Bevo, the possibility of a less frustrating season in 2024.

[JanLorMill]

So following the media stories and that ridiculous BigFooty thread, it seems like the most likely outcome is:

- Bevo stays
- new assistants, including perhaps one ex-senior coach if we're lucky
- possibly some change in the higher-level off-field execs

That feels like a good compromise! A bit of stability, a bit of change, the chance of a Hardwick-like recuperation or resurrection for Bevo, the possibility of a less frustrating season in 2024.
A new senior assistant to replace the current senior assistant who is contracted for next year?

[jeemak]

The comparisons to Hardwick's situation in 2016 aren't fantastic. I mean I'd love for there to be a transformation and for us to win three flags, but a bit of respect is due given Bevo has actually won a flag, made an additional grand final, and another five finals series placing him as our best ever coach - or at least most successful.

[angelopetraglia]

Beveridge was overruled on long-time assistant Smith’s exit
Jake Nial

The Western Bulldogs hierarchy overruled senior coach Luke Beveridge in their decision to part with long-time assistant and popular former player Rohan Smith.

According to two well-placed club sources familiar with the situation who requested anonymity because of its sensitivity, Beveridge had wanted Smith to be retained in the coaching panel, but the club’s football boss Chris Grant, with the backing of chief executive Ameet Bains, ruled that change was needed in the coaching panel for 2024 after a disappointing season.

Beveridge, however, has accepted that Smith, a 300-game star of the 1990s and 2000s, would not be offered a contract for next year, one club source explained. Smith had been the club’s back-line coach for several years, a role he also filled during the Bulldogs’ extraordinary 2016 premiership.

Beveridge’s resistance to the Smith call is viewed as consistent with his fierce loyalty to those he works with.

That Beveridge was forced to accept the hierarchy’s wishes for change in his coaching panel is a measure of how the senior coach’s control of football decisions has been reduced to an extent during what the Bulldogs acknowledge has been a disappointing season to date.

As the club’s only premiership coach since 1954 and only coach to reach a grand final since 1961 (he’s reached two), Beveridge has wielded significant power within the football department, but the Bulldogs believe change around him is necessary for the club’s sake.

The Bulldogs have chosen to address their failings by making changes in the football department, including to the coaching panel, to better support Beveridge, who has lost the experienced assistant coaches Ash Hansen (Carlton), Steven King (Gold Coast), Daniel Giansiracusa (Essendon), Joel Corey (Fremantle), Jordan Russell and Dale Morris since 2020. Hansen, King and Giansiracusa all departed to advance their careers, leaving the Dogs light on for experience and arguably increased the reliance and strain on Beveridge in a less-resourced football operation.

Corey, Russell and Morris were casualties of the COVID cutbacks to football budgets.

The Bulldogs have publicly backed Beveridge to remain senior coach for next year, as put on the record by Grant on Monday on SEN radio.

Beveridge is contracted to coach the Bulldogs for another two years, but, as with most other clubs, there is protection for the club if there’s an earlier parting. He signed a two-year contract extension in December, having coached the club since 2015.

Beveridge retains significant support from the board, especially from football director and former star and media commentator Luke Darcy, who was on the panel that recommended Beveridge as senior coach.

The Bulldogs view is that the team has under-performed, relative to its talent, and that some players have not played at their usual stellar levels, including gun midfielder Jack Macrae, rebounding playmaker Caleb Daniel and, to a degree, hard-running midfielder Bailey Smith.

While Smith is under contract for next year, there remains doubt about whether he wants to remain at the Bulldogs, with rival clubs monitoring his situation. Smith likes to play midfield, but has sometimes been deployed on the wing and had fewer centre bounce appearances this year when used as a high half-forward.

The Bulldogs, while disappointed with the win-loss tally and especially with the losses to Hawthorn and West Coast over the past fortnight, believe they have been close to much better results, having been within eight points of their opposition in the final quarter of every game since round two, barring the Collingwood game of round 17.

Bains recently put on record that the Bulldogs believed they had a top-four-capable playing list. Internally, however, there is recognition that their depth is not at the level of some teams, that their midfield – while highly credentialed and boasting a generational player in Marcus Bontempelli – has little leg speed and that they don’t have the same level of star quality in defence as some top teams. They were hurt by the absence of full-back Liam Jones for several weeks.

Elite talents Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and Sam Darcy, the son of Luke, are only in the infancy of their careers.

The Bulldogs, criticised for recruiting Rory Lobb from Fremantle to fill a forward/ruck hole, contend that Lobb’s presence has been beneficial to Tim English in the ruck and to Ugle-Hagan’s development.

Beveridge fights tears over Smith’s departure; Danger says commission not in his plans; Isaac Smith to retire
Making change while retaining the coach is a template that was followed by Collingwood in 2017, before their rise to a grand final, and Richmond in 2016, before the 2017 flag, when Nathan Buckley and Damien Hardwick were forced to accept changes in the football department and in their methods. A key difference is that Beveridge’s position is not under threat and that he already has a premiership.

Beveridge, who did a media conference on Friday and was busy preparing for Saturday’s crucial game against the Cats – which can put the Dogs back inside the eight before Greater Western Sydney play Carlton on Sunday – did not want to comment on the Rohan Smith situation on Friday when contacted via the club. Smith was unavailable for comment.

[angelopetraglia]

"Beveridge retains significant support from the board, especially from football director and former star and media commentator Luke Darcy, who was on the panel that recommended Beveridge as senior coach."

It does sounds like most of the narrative from the media is that he will be retained.

[azabob]

"Beveridge retains significant support from the board, especially from football director and former star and media commentator Luke Darcy, who was on the panel that recommended Beveridge as senior coach."

It does sounds like most of the narrative from the media is that he will be retained.

I really don’t think there will be clarity on any off field changes one way or another until our season is done.

[kruder]

How did woofers see Bevo's presser today? He just looks flat as, I wonder if he realises that he is speaking to the fans in that moment. I'd recommend he watch a few Big Ange's pressers and the way he connects with fans its just chalk and cheese atm.

[jeemak]

How did woofers see Bevo's presser today? He just looks flat as, I wonder if he realises that he is speaking to the fans in that moment. I'd recommend he watch a few Big Ange's pressers and the way he connects with fans its just chalk and cheese atm.

The view from some is he is unwell, with a cold or something.

[Vred]

"Beveridge retains significant support from the board, especially from football director and former star and media commentator Luke Darcy, who was on the panel that recommended Beveridge as senior coach."

It does sounds like most of the narrative from the media is that he will be retained.

Bevo has the full backing of the board and will 100% be our coach next season?
Pretty sure that means ''his fired'' in modern football speak ;)

[Bulldog Joe]

I really don’t think there will be clarity on any off field changes one way or another until our season is done.

So Monday at the latest.

Or do we wait until Footscray are also finished for the year?

[azabob]

Thinking about our situation all week without the emotion I'm not sure Beveridge and Grant can survive this year.

Beveridge has gone into self preservation mode - and I don't blame him for that- it is only natural.

Beveridge's language about the playing group publicly has shifted dramatically over the past week or two. Prior to this he was very diplomatic in pointing out the teams flaws, now he is flat out saying they are not good enough or consistent enough.

By all accounts he was quite despondent in the pre game interview last week against West Coast - I have only read the quotes as I was at the game but Beveridge used the word trepidation. If he and the players couldn't get up for this game it is extremely concerning.

#BeMoreBulldog

[G-Mo77]

So Monday at the latest.

Or do we wait until Footscray are also finished for the year?

They will wait until after the review.

[angelopetraglia]

"The view again from player managers I speak to and other clubs, is that there will be significant change not just at the coaching level, but also in the playing group...Luke Beveridge is going nowhere and they will work around him."

- Tom Morris on the Dogs

[angelopetraglia]

"They want younger midfield depth, and outside run."

- Tom Morris on what the Dogs are after this off-season after speaking to other clubs in the league

[SonofScray]

"The view again from player managers I speak to and other clubs, is that there will be significant change not just at the coaching level, but also in the playing group...Luke Beveridge is going nowhere and they will work around him."

- Tom Morris on the Dogs
The source and the content both make me sick.

[Mantis]

"They want younger midfield depth, and outside run."

- Tom Morris on what the Dogs are after this off-season after speaking to other clubs in the league

Can’t get any more outside than Liam Henry who we are linked with.

[jeemak]

Can’t get any more outside than Liam Henry who we are linked with.

His game will balance out once we ruck him a few games.

[Mofra]

Can’t get any more outside than Liam Henry who we are linked with.
I worry that his position next year might end up being "outside" the senior side.

...and the cost (picks and cap) for a guy who was behind Arty Jones at the same age.

[bulldogtragic]

I worry that his position next year might end up being "outside" the senior side.

...and the cost (picks and cap) for a guy who was behind Arty Jones at the same age.

I hope this trade never happens.

[jeemak]

I worry that his position next year might end up being "outside" the senior side.

...and the cost (picks and cap) for a guy who was behind Arty Jones at the same age.

Here's a comparison of their respective years this year. Can Arty bridge the gap? I get they play different roles but Arty needs to increase his production.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=9&playerStatus2=A&tid2=8&type=A&pid1=6726&pid2=6985&fid1=S&fid2=S


Henry's had a good year by any standard for a 21-22 year old. If he was OUR player already, we'd definitely not want to lose him as someone who has taken a huge step forward albeit still requiring some hard work to be done in different areas.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

So the two wretched performances come from the playing group's discontent.
Human but unprofessional.

[azabob]

Thinking about our situation all week without the emotion I'm not sure Beveridge and Grant can survive this year.

Beveridge has gone into self preservation mode - and I don't blame him for that- it is only natural.

Beveridge's language about the playing group publicly has shifted dramatically over the past week or two. Prior to this he was very diplomatic in pointing out the teams flaws, now he is flat out saying they are not good enough or consistent enough.

By all accounts he was quite despondent in the pre game interview last week against West Coast - I have only read the quotes as I was at the game but Beveridge used the word trepidation. If he and the players couldn't get up for this game it is extremely concerning.

#BeMoreBulldog

Not only is the coach in self preservation mode, the players are also in self preservation mode.

Planet of the apes stuff.

[bulldogtragic]

Not only is the coach in self preservation mode, the players are also in self preservation mode.

Planet of the apes stuff.

Don’t people like watching planet of the apes? Unlike our team.

[bornadog]

Not only is the coach in self preservation mode, the players are also in self preservation mode.

Planet of the apes stuff.

Did you go early

[azabob]

Did you go early

I still stand by what I said. In the first half and some of the third quarter the players were selfish, showed no care for thier teammates or for Luke.

I’m happy we got the win and I’m hoping like heck we get to do it again in two weeks time.

[jeemak]

I still stand by what I said. In the first half and some of the third quarter the players were selfish, showed no care for thier teammates or for Luke.

I’m happy we got the win and I’m hoping like heck we get to do it again in two weeks time.

Aza, some of us might think that you're buying into the panic and malaise a bit much.

Well, if not some of us, perhaps just me.

[Jasper]

This thread has been a great read but we need to accept that Beveridge will be the coach for at least next season. How Chris Grant shapes the football department and how he gets Beveridge on board with that will be the secret sauce to how we perform next year.

[Bullies]

This thread has been a great read but we need to accept that Beveridge will be the coach for at least next season. How Chris Grant shapes the footbal department and how he gets Beveridge on board with that will be the secret sauce to how we perform next year. We got Lade in to straighten Bevo up but that hasn't worked. If he is staying for the next 2 years I'm sure we will be saying the same again next year. You only had to look at the players last night playing against Gelelong 2's. Something is not right and everyone has seen it. Bevo's strength is his people management skill and is not a great tactician so once he loses the people you get what we see at the moment.

[azabob]

Aza, some of us might think that you're buying into the panic and malaise a bit much.

Well, if not some of us, perhaps just me.

Jee, we are a incredibly frustrating team to watch over the past 2 years.

How do you think the club is tracking on field and more importantly how do you see us improving?

I’m surprised you think I don’t have my own thoughts on our current predicament and I’m just blindly repeat what I hear in the media. I know you don’t listen or watch footy media and that is fine but you are also savvy enough to know that certain posters on woof only post the click bait headline and make I’ll-informed comments on what is actually said.

[ledge]

Jee, we are a incredibly frustrating team to watch over the past 2 years.

How do you think the club is tracking on field and more importantly how do you see us improving?

I’m surprised you think I don’t have my own thoughts on our current predicament and I’m just blindly repeat what I hear in the media. I know you don’t listen or watch footy media and that is fine but you are also savvy enough to know that certain posters on woof only post the click bait headline and make I’ll-informed comments on what is actually said.

I agree it’s not about reading the media , you can openly see something has happened in the last few weeks that has affected the way we play.
Yes the media have spotted it and are now speculating the clubs next move, but so have us fans doing the same but it certainly isn’t media driven it’s obvious something isn’t right.
Eg When have you ever seen such strange comments from a coach pregame when a side is fighting for finals ,? The coach and players should be up, about and excited about making finals, not looking at the reasons if we lose before the game is played .

[azabob]

I look at our list and as individuals we have some very very talented players.

Beveridge formally put on the record last week we do not have the depth required to compete week in week out; that sentiment is shared by some posters on woof also.

Consistency of performance, team cohesion is a huge concern. The 23 players need to be playing at 95-100% capacity to win.

Is this a coaching issue or a player issue? A combination of both? Most likely.

In simple terms does that mean we over achieved in 2021?

I'm sure no one posted on woof during 2021 we over achieved. But hindsight is suggesting we did, maybe? The only significant first choice player we lost since 2021 is Josh Dunkley.

2021 off season list changes
OUT - Cavarra, Hayes, Jong, Lipinski, Lloyd, Wood, Young,
IN - O'Brien, Darcy, A Jones, Clearly, Parker, McComb, Raak

2022 off season List changes
OUT: Cordy, Schache, Hunter, Dunkley, Martin, Wallis, Butler, Parker
IN: L.Jones, Lobb, Busslinger, Clarke, Gallagher, Baker,

So how did we get here then?

Is our game plan tactically sound and at the cutting edge?
Does our game plan suit our players strengths and weaknesses?
Do we have too many **individuals; non team first players** on our list?
Do we have enough different voices in the footy department?
Do we have strong enough voices in our onfield leaders?
Why is this group so conditional?
Did Steven King and Ash Hansen keep the players grounded and in the moment?

#BeMoreBulldog

[macca]

Not only is the coach in self preservation mode, the players are also in self preservation mode.

Planet of the apes stuff.

Apes together strong!

I hope the club can draw something from that.

[macca]

@azabob great post

OF the players we lost : Jong, Wood , hunter , Dunkley were in our best 22.

Jong/Dunkely: big bodied mid
Wood: hard backman. provided onfield coaching to back line .
Hunter : wingman , smart hard running player .

Who are the replacements standing up ? We really not have covered their loss

On the coaching side, I think we have failed in a few games this year to change tactics and it has costs us.

[Mofra]

Here's a comparison of their respective years this year. Can Arty bridge the gap? I get they play different roles but Arty needs to increase his production.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=9&playerStatus2=A&tid2=8&type=A&pid1=6726&pid2=6985&fid1=S&fid2=S


Henry's had a good year by any standard for a 21-22 year old. If he was OUR player already, we'd definitely not want to lose him as someone who has taken a huge step forward albeit still requiring some hard work to be done in different areas.
Filtered for 'same age':
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=9&playerStatus2=A&tid2=8&type=A&pid1=6726&pid2=6985&fid1=O&fid2=O

Tackles & DE on Arty's side, disposals and goals (0.6 to 0.3) on Henry's side.

[bornadog]

Filtered for 'same age':
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=9&playerStatus2=A&tid2=8&type=A&pid1=6726&pid2=6985&fid1=O&fid2=O

Tackles & DE on Arty's side, disposals and goals (0.6 to 0.3) on Henry's side.
Not much in it

[macca]

Filtered for 'same age':
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=9&playerStatus2=A&tid2=8&type=A&pid1=6726&pid2=6985&fid1=O&fid2=O

Tackles & DE on Arty's side, disposals and goals (0.6 to 0.3) on Henry's side.

The positive I take from Picking up Henry is , he has played 43 games with all the investment and sT!$#$%T games being paid by Fremantle. I hope we are getting him in his prime.

The negative is how many of those game has he actually played good in best 6 players and can he do it consistently ? He averages 1 tackle a game vs 2.7 games with Arty ( 13 games)

More upside it seems with him.

[meenies]

Richards replaced Wood who was past used by date.
Jong, while I loved him, was more out than in for many seasons so only had limited impact game day
Hunter gone to me has affected Jack Mc more than we realise as they were the 1-2 pair like Bont-Libba. Just knew where each were and combined so well. That chemistry has not been replaced.
Dunkley missed most as we have not had a direct replacement (ie. playing West or McComb or Toby to play that way) and other midfielders have not brought their creative efforts to maximise the flexibility in there.
Also, far too many injuries for newbies coming in to build continuity into their games, thus restricting who we can use.

[jeemak]

Filtered for 'same age':
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=9&playerStatus2=A&tid2=8&type=A&pid1=6726&pid2=6985&fid1=O&fid2=O

Tackles & DE on Arty's side, disposals and goals (0.6 to 0.3) on Henry's side.

That's key to my question. Do we think Arty can take the leap Henry has over the next year?

[jeemak]

The positive I take from Picking up Henry is , he has played 43 games with all the investment and sT!$#$%T games being paid by Fremantle. I hope we are getting him in his prime.

The negative is how many of those game has he actually played good in best 6 players and can he do it consistently ? He averages 1 tackle a game vs 2.7 games with Arty ( 13 games)

More upside it seems with him.

He averaged that at the same age, but this last season Henry averaged 2.6 tackles a game.

[Danjul]

Not much in it
From what I have seen of Arthur Jones this year in both vfl and afl the only conclusion is he is not ready for senior football. Just doesn?t get the ball enough.

Against Geelong in a close game 5 possessions. Next week in a close game against Port zero possessions. Went back to the Vfl and got 10 possessions in three games. 15 possessions in5 consecutive games at both levels. That was enough for people to demand further selection in the firsts. When he got back into the firsts he was very poor, contributed nothing. Worst player I have seen. Yet everyone raves about him. What am I missing?

His development has been set back badly. Let him learn.

[bornadog]

From what I have seen of Arthur Jones this year in both vfl and afl the only conclusion is he is not ready for senior football. Just doesn?t get the ball enough.

Against Geelong in a close game 5 possessions. Next week in a close game against Port zero possessions. Went back to the Vfl and got 10 possessions in three games. 15 possessions in5 consecutive games at both levels. That was enough for people to demand further selection in the firsts. When he got back into the firsts he was very poor, contributed nothing. Worst player I have seen. Yet everyone raves about him. What am I missing?

His development has been set back badly. Let him learn.

I don't disagree at all. I was responding to the comparison of him v Henry at the same age and their stats are about the same.

[Bullies]

The positive I take from Picking up Henry is , he has played 43 games with all the investment and sT!$#$%T games being paid by Fremantle. I hope we are getting him in his prime.

The negative is how many of those game has he actually played good in best 6 players and can he do it consistently ? He averages 1 tackle a game vs 2.7 games with Arty ( 13 games)

More upside it seems with him. Henry we are chasing more for his run and carry and delivery. Any tackles would be a bonus but sometimes you need to target players for the teams deficiency which for us is pace. Some of the bottom 6 players need to take on the tackling side as they don't offer much else.

[bulldogtragic]

Well, the season is over.

So hurry up with the change. No time to spare.

[SonofScray]

Goodbye Bevo.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think beating Geelongs thirds has probably saved him.

[bulldogtragic]

I think beating Geelongs thirds has probably saved him.

If that’s the cover, it’s a joke.

[GVGjr]

Goodbye Bevo.

While I admire your determination to push that barrow but how realistic do you think it is that Bevo won't be coaching us at least at the start of next year?

[DOG GOD]

I think beating Geelongs thirds has probably saved him.
Yep.

[1eyedog]

While I admire your determination to push that barrow but how realistic do you think it is that Bevo won't be coaching us at least at the start of next year?

Zero chance Bevo isn't at the club next year and the sack Bevo calls are becoming tiresome.

[Grantysghost]

While I admire your determination to push that barrow but how realistic do you think it is that Bevo won't be coaching us at least at the start of next year?

It's a good question.

What difference has this made to the decision making at the club?

It shouldn't make any, however not making the finals is a dismal fail.

I don't mean re Bevo he's safe.

[G-Mo77]

I think beating Geelongs thirds has probably saved him.

Sadly it's the premature 2yr deal given that will save him. There is no way he should be coach next season.

[Funke disco]

Well, the season is over.

So hurry up with the change. No time to spare.

Yep. Let's move on and see what changes we make. Will the team organize exit meetings next week?

[bulldogtragic]

Yep. Let's move on and see what changes we make. Will the team organize exit meetings next week?

I hope so. The task of selling hope starts now.

[GVGjr]

It's a good question.

What difference has this made to the decision making at the club?

It shouldn't make any, however not making the finals is a dismal fail.

I don't mean re Bevo he's safe.

We've had a season that might be best described as a failure and a dismal failure might have been more around if we were never really in the mix to make the 8. The more realistic supporters will be wanting to see some changes to the footy department and to hear some of the reasons why the club believes we have fallen short on expectations and what will be done to fix it going forward.
The stronger critics of the clubs performance this year will want some heads to roll and that might happen.

I wanted us to get into the finals because we are a very capable team on our day but it can be cleansing to say we have fallen well short and start working on a plan to get more from this group. Perhaps limping into the 8 would have been good enough for some supporters but they'll be harder pressed to hide behind our results now.

It's going to be intriguing to see what happens to our playing list and the direction of the footy department in the next 2 months.

[SonofScray]

Earlier in the tread, a few folk were adamant that Bevo would walk if we didn’t make the finals. Framed it around his character and sense of integrity.

I could never see that happening, hence going hard and early on the sacking component.

Question for folk who thought he would walk, does it change your assessment of Bevo if he doesn’t?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Sadly it's the premature 2yr deal given that will save him. There is no way he should be coach next season.

Yep. My comment was tongue in cheek.

Reality is the same amateurs who re-signed him for multiple years when they didn't need to won't then turn around and sack him, because that would admit a very costly mistake, of which would then be impossible to justify their own jobs.

I fully expect us to say we've done a review, the conclusions of which pointed to Bevo needing more support, even though that was what we supposedly did last year.

It's a shambles.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Adelaide. With NOTHING to play for. NOOOOTTTHHHIINNGGG!!!
Beats the eagles by 8 goals in Perth.

This is surely the end of Bevo.
Beating the Geelong 3rds to keep our finals hope alive is a rotten cherry on a stale cake.

[bulldogtragic]

Yep. My comment was tongue in cheek.

Reality is the same amateurs who re-signed him for multiple years when they didn't need to won't then turn around and sack him, because that would admit a very costly mistake, of which would then be impossible to justify their own jobs.

I fully expect us to say we've done a review, the conclusions of which pointed to Bevo needing more support, even though that was what we supposedly did last year.

It's a shambles.

Anyone thinking the Bevo era is going to get better before it ends is on drugs. And not the good kind.

[bulldogtragic]

Sliding Doors:

IF ...

making two Grand Finals from nine seasons is an excellent record ...

THEN ...

the ninth season of that reign should not pass without the greatest of internal scrutiny, which is something this club hasn't liked doing since handing the keys - and everything else pertaining to all operations - to Bevo. Something is very wrong, particularly if Bailey Smith asks for a move.

[macca]

Sliding Doors:

IF ...

making two Grand Finals from nine seasons is an excellent record ...

THEN ...

the ninth season of that reign should not pass without the greatest of internal scrutiny, which is something this club hasn't liked doing since handing the keys - and everything else pertaining to all operations - to Bevo. Something is very wrong, particularly if Bailey Smith asks for a move.

9th season curse, finishing 9th position its the worst place to finish for draft position.

[bulldogtragic]

9th season curse, finishing 9th position its the worst place to finish for draft position.

A loss to Geelong and our pick 8 after the McKay compo and two picks probably gets ahead of a Croft bid.

But pick 10, into 11, and maybe three bids means our pick is going to 14 and a Croft bid is likely to be made.

We desperately need to get that GCS pick with our two firsts. That last half, last night, is more trouble than it was worth.

[SonofScray]

While I admire your determination to push that barrow but how realistic do you think it is that Bevo won't be coaching us at least at the start of next year?

He will 100% coach next year and it will be to our detriment.

What could have been a brief bit of intensity and relatively swift correction is now going to compromise the preseason, next year and relationships at every level of the club. From members to players, to coaches, to the board. Everyone is going to take a hit now.

[bulldogtragic]

He will 100% coach next year and it will be to our detriment.

What could have been a brief bit of intensity and relatively swift correction is now going to compromise the preseason, next year and relationships at every level of the club. From members to players, to coaches, to the board. Everyone is going to take a hit now.

Yep. I was hoping we were at rock bottom. I can’t yet see where rock bottom is from here. But I still think this off season list period is going to be the biggest shot show since 2014. So there’s that in the near term.

[Grantysghost]

Leon Cameron for Kingsley supports the Bevo out crew.
He's really turned them around.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Leon Cameron for Kingsley supports the Bevo out crew.
He's really turned them around.

Mcrae after Buckley too. I fully believe a different coach can get a lot more out of our list. It has to be the right coach though.

[bulldogtragic]

Leon Cameron for Kingsley supports the Bevo out crew.
He's really turned them around.

They traded some good players out too. They look reborn. Unlike us.

[angelopetraglia]

Leon Cameron for Kingsley supports the Bevo out crew.
He's really turned them around.

And the Brad Scott taking over from Rutten does the opposite. Also Port backing in Hinkley also does the opposite.

You can pick any proof points to back your argument. There are are so many that go both ways.

[Grantysghost]

And the Brad Scott taking over from Rutten does the opposite. Also Port backing in Hinkley also does the opposite.

You can pick any proof points to back your argument. There are are so many that go both ways.

It was more they started the same year and had similar tenures.
I'm keep Bevo for now.

[Eastdog]

It was more they started the same year and had similar tenures.
I'm keep Bevo for now.

Must be change around him. Need to work out what has happened this year after the internal expectation was very high.

[angelopetraglia]

It was more they started the same year and had similar tenures.
I'm keep Bevo for now.

I'm sitting on the fence and will see what happens in the next few weeks. I can see both sides of the argument. I have been a long time supporter of Bevo, but the second half of this season has shaken my resolve.

I'm just hoping someone is taking a serious look and will make what they believe will be the right decision for the club. It is hard for us to judge everything from afar without inside knowledge and living and breathing it every day.

At a minimum we need an overhaul of the football department. If they decide that Bevo isn't the right man for the job on what they are seeing and hearing, I'm OK with that too. We just need to be decisive and make the right calls.

[macca]

I'm sitting on the fence and will see what happens in the next few weeks. I can see both sides of the argument. I have been a long time supporter of Bevo, but the second half of this season has shaken my resolve.

I'm just hoping someone is taking a serious look and will make what they believe will be the right decision for the club. It is hard for us to judge everything from afar without inside knowledge and living and breathing it every day.

At a minimum we need an overhaul of the football department. If they decide that Bevo isn't the right man for the job on what they are seeing and hearing, I'm OK with that too. We just need to be decisive and make the right calls.

@angelT , I just alluded to that in the improvements thread. Pretty much what I Was thinking. hope this review exams all aspects of the club.

[Hotdog60]

Since the AFL made all the cuts to the footy department since Covid and a lot of staff had to be let go could the stress of having to cover so many other duties have taken its toll.
Shouldn't the head coach just worry about coaching but it sounds from the outside looking in that Bevo has been covering multiple roles and this could be having an effect on his match day coaching.
I hope if this is the case we can get that support and let the coach, coach.

[Bullies]

And the Brad Scott taking over from Rutten does the opposite. Also Port backing in Hinkley also does the opposite.

You can pick any proof points to back your argument. There are are so many that go both ways. Brad Scott is the biggest fraud in footy. Essendon deserve what they got.

[Bullies]

Yep. I was hoping we were at rock bottom. I can?t yet see where rock bottom is from here. But I still think this off season list period is going to be the biggest shot show since 2014. So there?s that in the near term. If Bevo hangs around we are a long way off rock bottom. He should do the honourable thing but he won't. We will waste another year and at the same time fail to re sign some of our big names.

As I have said before Bevo is more a Peoples coach and relies in the buy in of players rather than being a great tactician and once you lose the players it is downhill.

I listened to Nathan Buckley and he said he had learnt so much from his first stint as coach and if he coached again he wouldn't be so regimented. He is considered one of the best tacticians.

[bulldogtragic]

If Bevo hangs around we are a long way off rock bottom. He should do the honourable thing but he won't. We will waste another year and at the same time fail to re sign some of our big names.

As I have said before Bevo is more a Peoples coach and relies in the buy in of players rather than being a great tactician and once you lose the players it is downhill.

I listened to Nathan Buckley and he said he had learnt so much from his first stint as coach and if he coached again he wouldn't be so regimented. He is considered one of the best tacticians.

I think it’s now obvious we need to rebuild.

A) rebuild with a tired looking Bevo risking that he might go might go early, or

B) rebuild with a new coach from the beginning and set a new course

I’m pretty sure Bevo has said publicly he wasn’t a coach for life type. This rebuild will take years and then management into the next finals where I wouldn’t mind being so dominant as to finishing top 4. The time has come…

Unless all we need is some luck, some tinkering and Liam Henry and Tomlinson to fix everything as we expect to rise up the ladder.

[GVGjr]

Since the AFL made all the cuts to the footy department since Covid and a lot of staff had to be let go could the stress of having to cover so many other duties have taken its toll.
Shouldn't the head coach just worry about coaching but it sounds from the outside looking in that Bevo has been covering multiple roles and this could be having an effect on his match day coaching.
I hope if this is the case we can get that support and let the coach, coach.

Most coaches want more say not less and without a lot of thought I can only think of Terry Wallace who had some boundaries on what he should and shouldn't have control of. Wrestling control from Bevo won't be easy and might not even be possible and there are some good reasons for that as the buck typically stops with the Head coach.
I actually agree with you that there could be some merit in having a coach that coaches the team that is given to him and not having as much say on managing the list etc but I feel that isn't going to happen until another club successfully implements it.

[whythelongface]

I think it’s now obvious we need to rebuild.

A) rebuild with a tired looking Bevo risking that he might go might go early, or

B) rebuild with a new coach from the beginning and set a new course

I’m pretty sure Bevo has said publicly he wasn’t a coach for life type. This rebuild will take years and then management into the next finals where I wouldn’t mind being so dominant as to finishing top 4. The time has come…

Unless all we need is some luck, some tinkering and Liam Henry and Tomlinson to fix everything as we expect to rise up the ladder.

You keep talking about a rebuild but what does this look like? We have an exciting group of young/ ish players < 26 thus don’t need a full rebuild in the Hawthorn/ North sense. We can actually build around most of our team and add a few missing pieces - look at our talent - Marra, Darcy, Naughton, JOD, English (just 26), Poulter, Richards, Weightman, Smith (maybe), West, Williams - that is 10 established players you can build a team around. Then throw in Bont, Daniel, Dale - all 27/28. Plus there is Busslinger, maybe Gallagher and Clarke and you start to have a pretty good core group of players. No need to have a complete rebuild - build the list around ths group and we are competing in a couple of years.

We need some speedy, hard working, win the ball at all cost type players in the mids and maybe another key defender but we have the makings of a bloody good list.

[GVGjr]

You keep talking about a rebuild but what does this look like? We have an exciting group of young/ ish players < 26 thus don’t need a full rebuild in the Hawthorn/ North sense. We can actually build around most of our team and add a few missing pieces - look at our talent - Marra, Darcy, Naughton, JOD, English (just 26), Poulter, Richards, Weightman, Smith (maybe), West, Williams - that is 10 established players you can build a team around. Then throw in Bont, Daniel, Dale - all 27/28. Plus there is Busslinger, maybe Gallagher and Clarke and you start to have a pretty good core group of players. No need to have a complete rebuild - build the list around ths group and we are competing in a couple of years.

We need some speedy, hard working, win the ball at all cost type players in the mids and maybe another key defender but we have the makings of a bloody good list.

I think the rebuild type scenario that BT is referring to is by moving some good players on now to acquire draft picks and a considerable war chest for the future. It would mean taking a hit now (2024) for a quick rebound.
The benefit might be building a team around the Marra, Darcy, Naughton, perhaps Smith, Weightman, JOD core group.
The counter is that you waste a year of the Bont era and if you get it wrong it might be 2 or more years.

Love to know what the club thinks of the list now and how different that now is from 12 months ago.

[Grantysghost]

We'd have to look at moving Macrae.

He's not in Bevo's plans.

If a team wants him for a second rounder I'd do it and I really love Jacko.

But time for emotional attachment is gone.

[angelopetraglia]

I think the rebuild type scenario that BT is referring to is by moving some good players on now to acquire draft picks and a considerable war chest for the future. It would mean taking a hit now (2024) for a quick rebound.
The benefit might be building a team around the Marra, Darcy, Naughton, perhaps Smith, Weightman, JOD core group.
The counter is that you waste a year of the Bont era and if you get it wrong it might be 2 or more years.

Love to know what the club thinks of the list now and how different that now is from 12 months ago.

It is just not Bont.

You have Bont, Libba and Treloar. All still elite mids. If you support them with the right balance you can still reload and go.

[mjp]

I actually agree with you that there could be some merit in having a coach that coaches the team that is given to him and not having as much say on managing the list etc but I feel that isn't going to happen until another club successfully implements it.

There's a phrase that goes "A change is as good as a holiday".

I used to wonder about this as finishing work at one place on Friday then starting somewhere else on Monday morning never sounded like much of a holiday to me...but as I have become old I have realised that this is related to what I will call 'politics' and responsibility 'creep' as much as anything.

Bevo's role is nominally 'Senior Coach'...but after 9-years his role is 'Bevo'. Like all of us, as time passes what you do and what is on your JDF become less (and less, and less) in synch. You do the stuff that YOU do. You get involved in the meetings that YOU are 'needed' for. And so on. And when you go somewhere else, well, all you have to do is your job as 'other people' have defined it.

I don't think Bevo can really 'wind-back' on his responsibilities too much whilst he remains at the Bulldogs. I actually think that's OK for the most part...but if we are expecting a review to come in and significantly re-set his position and areas of responsibility, well...I just don't see it.

[GVGjr]

We'd have to look at moving Macrae.

He's not in Bevo's plans.

If a team wants him for a second rounder I'd do it and I really love Jacko.

But time for emotional attachment is gone.

Outside of Bont, getting into our leadership group hasn't been a huge positive for our players.
It's a significant cliff that Jack stepped off this year but there could be some reasons behind it.

[Grantysghost]

Living statue MJP!

[Mantis]

Outside of Bont, getting into our leadership groupd hasn't been a huge positive for our players.
It's a significant cliff that Jack stepped off this year but there could be some reasons behind it.

What do you think they might be?

[GVGjr]

I don't think Bevo can really 'wind-back' on his responsibilities too much whilst he remains at the Bulldogs. I actually think that's OK for the most part...but if we are expecting a review to come in and significantly re-set his position and areas of responsibility, well...I just don't see it.

My guess is that Bevo has lost the art of delegating and blames the soft cap cutbacks as the reason why. When high performers like Bevo are struggling with getting results and feel like they're losing some control they tend to take on more responsibility and the problem just gets worse. Getting a strong GM of footy who narrows the focus for Bevo would be a good thing for all concerned.

I agree that it's harder now to reset things but it needs to happen.

[GVGjr]

What do you think they might be?

I don't have a strong view but perhaps he's carried a niggling injury or he's been unable to adapt as well to a changing role as we would have hoped. It could also be that he's lost a step and a bit of desire.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Judgement replaces faith.
Our fate parallels my current life.
Final judgement time.

[bulldogtragic]

Think on this:

The only chance Naughton plays defence is a new coach
The only way the best second ruck/KPF in the comp plays in that spot is a new coach

Those guys might leave if they’re not happy. But team first players play where the team needs them and if that’s not them then why pay them 20% of our cap. We could play Jones, JOD & Naughton back with JUH, Tim & Lobb. With Darcy & Croft & Buss as depth. We could recruit a first ruck that provides more advantage to our mids.

The only way we explore such radical changes is a new coach who may just say, let’s move the magnets around. Maybe they’re the moves the get us back quicker. We won’t know because under Bevo, those sorts of changes are never going to happen. I for one, would like to see a preseason of seeing what happens with such a different looking set up. If they all remain.

[lemmon]

I don't think Bevo can really 'wind-back' on his responsibilities too much whilst he remains at the Bulldogs. I actually think that's OK for the most part...but if we are expecting a review to come in and significantly re-set his position and areas of responsibility, well...I just don't see it.

Unless a new/emboldened leader that sits above Bevo winds back his responsibilities for him.

Agree that there's always going to be a natural blurring and expanding of responsibilities, but I don't think that just because that's how it's been, means that's how it has to be going forward.

If a review finds that Bevo has been too involved in list management or too involved in areas of the football program where his input isn't helpful, I'd expect a strong leader above Bevo to remove him from those conversations and enforce that. Tough job? Yes. Do we have the right people in the building to make it happen? I'm not sure. But if a review finds that will help the football club, I'd expect strong leaders to make that happen and frankly I'd expect Beveridge to bite his tongue and live with it. He doesn't have the credits in the bank anymore to challenge it.

[bornadog]

Unless a new/emboldened leader that sits above Bevo winds back his responsibilities for him.

Agree that there's always going to be a natural blurring and expanding of responsibilities, but I don't think that just because that's how it's been, means that's how it has to be going forward.

If a review finds that Bevo has been too involved in list management or too involved in areas of the football program where his input isn't helpful, I'd expect a strong leader above Bevo to remove him from those conversations and enforce that. Tough job? Yes. Do we have the right people in the building to make it happen? I'm not sure. But if a review finds that will help the football club, I'd expect strong leaders to make that happen and frankly I'd expect Beveridge to bite his tongue and live with it. He doesn't have the credits in the bank anymore to challenge it.

Do we really, and I mean really know what power Bevo wields???

[hujsh]

Unless a new/emboldened leader that sits above Bevo winds back his responsibilities for him.

Agree that there's always going to be a natural blurring and expanding of responsibilities, but I don't think that just because that's how it's been, means that's how it has to be going forward.

If a review finds that Bevo has been too involved in list management or too involved in areas of the football program where his input isn't helpful, I'd expect a strong leader above Bevo to remove him from those conversations and enforce that. Tough job? Yes. Do we have the right people in the building to make it happen? I'm not sure. But if a review finds that will help the football club, I'd expect strong leaders to make that happen and frankly I'd expect Beveridge to bite his tongue and live with it. He doesn't have the credits in the bank anymore to challenge it.

I don't mind Bevo being 'involved' in these football related areas either but from the description of how his week (and the weeks of the assistant coaches) typically work I think it's fair to say they're over worked and need more support. That'd hopefully naturally limit his involvement in non-necessary activities

[bornadog]

I don't mind Bevo being 'involved' in these football related areas either but from the description of how his week (and the weeks of the assistant coaches) typically work I think it's fair to say they're over worked and need more support. That'd hopefully naturally limit his involvement in non-necessary activities

Matt Inness who looks after High performance sits on the bench on game day and works as an assistant to Bevo. Just another example of doing more than one job.

[Grantysghost]

Matt Inness who looks after High performance sits on the bench on game day and works as an assistant to Bevo. Just another example of doing more than one job.

How many late season fade outs have we had? I haven't looked but is this fitness related?

[bornadog]

How many late season fade outs have we had? I haven't looked but is this fitness related?

I don't believe fitness is an issue.

[Danjul]

Unless a new/emboldened leader that sits above Bevo winds back his responsibilities for him.

Agree that there's always going to be a natural blurring and expanding of responsibilities, but I don't think that just because that's how it's been, means that's how it has to be going forward.

If a review finds that Bevo has been too involved in list management or too involved in areas of the football program where his input isn't helpful, I'd expect a strong leader above Bevo to remove him from those conversations and enforce that. Tough job? Yes. Do we have the right people in the building to make it happen? I'm not sure. But if a review finds that will help the football club, I'd expect strong leaders to make that happen and frankly I'd expect Beveridge to bite his tongue and live with it. He doesn't have the credits in the bank anymore to challenge it.

That is the way out of this mess. Just do it.

The main problems start disappearing tomorrow.

The harmony starts appearing in December.

The players start mastering the new game plan in February.

The on field success starts in game one.


Now our only problem is - do we have a leader that knows anything about football?

[Mantis]

That is the way out of this mess. Just do it.

The main problems start disappearing tomorrow.

The harmony starts appearing in December.

The players start mastering the new game plan in February.

The on field success starts in game one.

Now our only problem is - do we have a leader that knows anything about football?

Who is this directed at?

[Danjul]

Who is this directed at?
Whoever in the club structure that is responsible for its success.

That is the person who sits everyone around the table and says- this is what we are going to do.

They follow it up with- this is why.

[Mantis]

Whoever in the club structure that is responsible for its success.

That is the person who sits everyone around the table and says- this is what we are going to do.

They follow it up with- this is why.

And who the **** is that?

I think you're trying to reference our president, but rather than me, and others having to guess can't you just name them?

[GVGjr]

Do we really, and I mean really know what power Bevo wields???

I think it's safe to assume it's not as much as it might have been a couple of years back and it's likely to reduce just a bit further as well. Losing Smith when he wanted to keep him is a strong sign that the dynamics have switched just a bit.

[Danjul]

And who the **** is that?

I think you're trying to reference our president, but rather than me, and others having to guess can't you just name them?
I don?t know the exact responsibilities of each member of the organisation. One or more have a practical overarching power. They can make a decision which sticks. The sooner they do it the better because, one way or another, they are losing time and the eventual response will be more damaging to the club.

my initial comment was in response to. - leader who sits above Bevo.

If you know who best matches my description please supply the name.

[bornadog]

I don?t know the exact responsibilities of each member of the organisation. One or more have a practical overarching power. They can make a decision which sticks. The sooner they do it the better because, one way or another, they are losing time and the eventual response will be more damaging to the club.

my initial comment was in response to. - leader who sits above Bevo.

If you know who best matches my description please supply the name.

Chris Grant is director of Footy

[angelopetraglia]

Taken from https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/wreck-it-ralph-the-nuclear-option-to-fasttrack-a-rise-up-the-ladder-next-year-for-the-10-nonfinalists/news-story/913a82ce08ea30810465eb86bd29e1b2

9TH: WESTERN BULLDOGS

The coaching department rejig has already started with Rohan Smith gone and Marc Webb likely to head back to Perth to reunite with his wife Lisa, the Fremantle AFLW coach.

So, for footy boss Chris Grant, it is time to loosen the purse strings and hunt for an absolutely elite tactical coach to add depth alongside current senior assistant Brendon Lade, who is well regarded.

Is it a Justin Leppitsch type, or Andrew McQualter if he falls out of contention for Richmond?s senior job?

Luke Beveridge should hop on a flight to Brisbane at the earliest opportunity post-finals and have a coffee with Josh Dunkley to find out every reason behind him leaving. After 12 months he might be prepared to be more open than about his exit.

Board member Luke Darcy painted his departure as nothing more than a change of scenery on Friday night, but no one believes that is true.

He grew tired of some teammates who were not as professional as he was.

So, have every one of his concerns been addressed in the past 12 months?

There are rumblings from players that the Beveridge message did not have the snap, crackle and pop of recent seasons, so the coach will have to take that on board.

The Dogs have shut down talk of trading Bailey Smith, who played high half-forward for much of the year.

Amid the smoke and mirrors this much is true ? he clearly believes he should be playing more midfield, so it is up to Beveridge to communicate to him the areas of his game he must work on to allow that to happen next year.

Clearly that is a work in progress, given he is considering his future.

One more query: if the Dogs haven?t asked the question of Eagles defender Jeremy McGovern to help round out their defence, why not?

[angelopetraglia]

Do we really buy that Bevo doesn't know the real reason why Dunks left the club?

[azabob]

Do we really buy that Bevo doesn't know the real reason why Dunks left the club?

Surely he would.

[macca]

Has the author been reading woof ?

[Grantysghost]

Do we really buy that Bevo doesn't know the real reason why Dunks left the club?

Because Andrew hates him.

[angelopetraglia]

Link: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/robbo-dogs-need-review-of-their-whole-footy-department-including-chris-grant/news-story/def2615d4e5aed85b4ab2c38938ab095

Robbo: Dogs need review of their whole footy department, including Chris Grant

The Bulldogs will review their 2023 season, but that can’t stop at Luke Beveridge’s coaching group, they must look at the man running their footy department as well, writes Mark Robinson. August 28, 2023 - 6:06PM

The unwavering support for Luke Beveridge cannot stop a full-blown review of a season that ended with a whimper and disappointment.

The Bulldogs have problems and a review will determine the extent of them, however monumental or minuscule they are.

But problems they are.

On field, the Bulldogs don’t even tease anymore. They are flash without substance. A team which had top four hopes and nothing to show for it. The list needs work.

The off-field component also needs examination and how deep that runs is up to the Bulldogs.

But the review has to look at all aspects of the footy department, including head of football and club icon Chris Grant, the coaching set up and recruiting.

The simple — and likely — solution is to have Grant review the footy and chief executive Ameet Bains to review Grant.

The other solution is to bring in an external person, say a Jason Dunstall or Geoff Walsh, to review Grant, talk to the players and staff, and then report to Bains.

It’s not an emergency or crisis move, it’s a move to help identify any problems with the environment, reporting practices and player concerns that otherwise remain subdued.

It’s not about blowing up the club, it’s about improving the club.

And there’s no shame in employing fresh eyes.

The person could look and listen. Speak to the captain, speak to the experienced Liam Jones about his expectation versus reality and speak to outgoing assistants Rohan Smith and Marc Webb.

Even speak to those who previously wanted out of the club and about why.

If they’d care to share, have meetings with assistant coaches who departed in recent years, like Ash Hansen, Joel Corey, Stephen King and Jordan Russell.

It’s not a witch hunt. It’s an exploration. Why did they leave? Was it because of Beveridge or even Grant, or is it less sinister than that?

Also, learn why Lachie Hunter left, and Zaine Cordy and Josh Dunkley. Two of them are father-sons. It’s rare for sons of past players, who have barracked for the club all their lives, to want out. One maybe. But two?

Change has begun and will continue.

Smith, a long-time lieutenant of Beveridge’s is out the door. Beveridge didn’t like it, which prompted suggestions of conflict with Grant and Bains.

Those pedalling that conflict can’t have it both ways. They accuse Beveridge of having too much power, and that no one at the club stands up to him, and then scream crisis when the club actually stands up to the coach.

And the other suggestion that Smith’s sacking derailed the season surely is poppycock. If the players use that as an excuse, there’s more issues than we thought.

The Bulldogs on Monday indicated the review would be run internally.

“We’re aware we need to improve in the off-season to bridge the gap between where we are and where we need to be,” Bulldogs chief executive Ameet Bains said on Monday night.

“Our job now is to definitively identify where we can find that improvement and make the required changes.

“That process started earlier in the season, and will continue now as we work through the early stages of the post-season.

“With the strength of leadership we have within our club, and the intimate knowledge of our people and processes, we are confident we can make the adjustments that we require.”

The list needs work. The top-end talent is there, but there’s too much bottom-end battlers. Like, there’s six colonels and 16 soldiers.

The best list in the competition? That was a joke comment surely.

Former recruiter Simon Dalrymple was another to take off. He built the 2016 list and is doing a pretty good job with Sydney’s list. Why did he leave? Was it about opportunity or would he no longer work with Grant or Beveridge? Go ask him?

This year, there were injuries, and they did lose five games by seven points or fewer, but questions remain on players such as Jack Macrae and Bailey Smith.

Macrae fell off a cliff this year and Smith might fall out of the club. What’s their mindset?

The players have their exit meetings Tuesday, so grievances will be heard and questions will be asked.

Will Smith be totally honest? He had a great working — and personal — relationship with former club doctor, Jake Landsberger. Does he have the same comfortableness and honesty at present?

That’s not an accusation, it’s a question.

And if he wants out for “another environment’’ then why?

Who cares what the Bulldogs call their review, be it exploratory or semi-crisis, because that’s not the point.

And it’s not about circling wagons and soldiering on.

Fresh eyes can be a winner.

[angelopetraglia]

"Will Smith be totally honest? He had a great working — and personal — relationship with former club doctor, Jake Landsberger. Does he have the same comfortableness and honesty at present?"

Has anyone heard anymrore about this? The relationhship with the medical team is an issue? Compared to what he had with Jake?

[Rocket Science]

Hindsight, huh.

Unpacking Johnno's recent remarks and chiefly his concerns around effort levels and application invariably draws the mind to the bloke who vacated the #5 jumper, who we've disowned and by all means stuff him, but whose game was anchored by a certain consistency of output and rigid standards he regrettably continues to meet and who'll almost certainly finish top-3 in the Lion's B&F for his efforts, if he doesn't win it outright, and maybe another flag too, the bastard.

It's a bitter pill when your club champion walks out because on top of losing a crucial soldier it's also a pointed comment on the state of the place and its culture that should prompt frank questions, and perhaps it did, but you wonder whether we were comfier pinning most of it on a discarded problem child in Hunter rather than seizing it as a moment for some collective hard reflection, lessons gleaned and rededicating ourselves, galvanised, but as we bag and tag yet another season of promise turned to piss against a wall it sure doesn't feel that way.

So if Dunkley left convinced we weren't generally 'serious' enough we're looking pretty bereft of counter-arguments because the team he fled still refuses to heed painful lessons and recent weeks are just the freshest, forehead smacking demonstration of it.

Extreme unreliability. Conditionality. Shrinking in the moment. Easy prey for opponents willing to do the hard things we won't, not consistently at least. We've been witness to it for long enough that it's now a calcified trait of this team that's made an art of tripping over its own balls while torching chance after rueful chance to stamp itself as 'serious' rather than completely unserious and utterly untrustworthy, while we comfort ourselves with the notion that 'oh but if we get rolling, look out ..." Truly the hallmark of serious teams through the ages.

When does the catalogue of humblings haunt and motivate this group enough to trigger a response that's isn't taking the very next chance to redeem themselves and faithfully choking on it?

Where's the growth or hunger distilled from the countless clownish ways we've played dead at the worst moments, rather than the sense we'll happily do it again, and again, and learn nothing.

It's this feckless refusal to learn that makes this team nigh on insufferable and it's the feeble, foreseeable ways they buckle as much as the outcomes that fuel the dislike. It's hardly as if we're unused to battling. It's in our DNA. But with a some rare exceptions it's hard to recall a bunch in our colours I've felt less endeared to and it transcends matters of talent or tactics, it's character. It's a vibe. And fine, put aside the extent to which we care or don't, but they routinely play with so little care for each other.

So, do we accept the vacuous mercenary might've been onto something?

Maybe the penny drops when he's holding up a Norm Smith.

[Grantysghost]

Did you feel that way in September 2021 when we back to back beat the Lions and Power rangers on their covid discerning shit nests?

I get it. But it's no where near that bad no matter how incredible your words are.

I want to read it 5 times just because that's the way language should be utilised.

Love your post. I'm growing angrier exponentially confused as to why.

However I have to think it's not irrevocably bleak.

When in doubt... Beatles it.

Nothing is real
And nothing to get hung about

[bulldogtragic]

Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dogs eye.

[Grantysghost]

Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dogs eye.

Oh I love I am the walrus!

[Danjul]

Did you feel that way in September 2021 when we back to back beat the Lions and Power rangers on their covid discerning shit nests?

I get it. But it's no where near that bad no matter how incredible your words are.

I want to read it 5 times just because that's the way language should be utilised.

Love your post. I'm growing angrier exponentially confused as to why.

However I have to think it's not irrevocably bleak.

When in doubt... Beatles it.

Nothing is real
And nothing to get hung about

Unfortunately the rot became evident after the bye in 2021. Before Bruce went down. Everything that has happened in 2022 and 2023 was there in the last three home games (and there were signs of weird selection decisions that impacted success even in 2020). And I don?t blame the players in any way for the collapse in the GF. I thank them for a fantastic effort all year. There was clear evidence of problems even when they were making the club proud.

[bulldogtragic]

If Smith requests a trade as reported. How does Bevo & Grant survive he and Dunkley demanding out.

They don’t. Smith walking out the door drags them out with him.

Happy to see a fresh start personally.

[Grantysghost]

If Smith requests a trade as reported. How does Bevo & Grant survive he and Dunkley demanding out.

They don’t. Smith walking out the door drags them out with him.

Happy to see a fresh start personally.

Not sure they can tbh. That's nuclear.

[jeemak]

If Smith requests a trade as reported. How does Bevo & Grant survive he and Dunkley demanding out.

They don’t. Smith walking out the door drags them out with him.

Happy to see a fresh start personally.

Really? I haven't seen any such message from your recent posting history.

[angelopetraglia]

Whatever the truth of the matter. If they are related or not. It doesn't really matter.

The perception of your best two young midfielders requesting a trade in conescutive seasons is embarassing for the club. Straight out. Hard questions need to be asked.

[Dry Rot]

Unfortunately the rot became evident after the bye in 2021.

I wondered how long it would take before someone blamed me for all this.

[Grantysghost]

Whatever the truth of the matter. If they are related or not. It doesn't really matter.

The perception of your best two young midfielders requesting a trade in conescutive seasons is embarassing for the club. Straight out. Hard questions need to be asked.

Horne Francis left North and it was massive.

This is like that x2

[Danjul]

I wondered how long it would take before someone blamed me for all this.
Please explain. I am assuming that you are referring to your comments at the time. Correct me if I?m wrong.

[Dry Rot]

Please explain. I am assuming that you are referring to your comments at the time. Correct me if I?m wrong.

Lame joke - look at my user name.

[azabob]

If Smith requests a trade as reported. How does Bevo & Grant survive he and Dunkley demanding out.

They don’t. Smith walking out the door drags them out with him.

Happy to see a fresh start personally.

Apparently Jon Ralph reported on the couch that Grant is safe. Only Spangher is under pressure.

[bulldogtragic]

Horne Francis left North and it was massive.

This is like that x2

This I think is only the beginning. My Shocktober vibes (less Bont quitting) still feel strong. If guys like English & Naughton don’t see us rebounding quickly, they can get similar money at a contender or more at another rebuilding club. We’d want to know this year their intention to st least trade them under contract.

If there’s a rush to the door that impacts sponsors and members, then I guess the board and CEO will see a more direct line between footy ops and the numbers they have to own next year.

What’s the vision being sold to these guys I wonder? And do/will they believe it? Going to be interesting.

[bulldogtragic]

Apparently Jon Ralph reported on the couch that Grant is safe. Only Spangher is under pressure.

Today. We will see by the end of the trade period. Simon Garlick kept his job through Shocktober initially too from memory.

[ledge]

Only Spangher ? That’s a fair meltdown from one assistant coach . Let’s be honest the problems were arising before he came .

[FrediKanoute]

Since the AFL made all the cuts to the footy department since Covid and a lot of staff had to be let go could the stress of having to cover so many other duties have taken its toll.
Shouldn't the head coach just worry about coaching but it sounds from the outside looking in that Bevo has been covering multiple roles and this could be having an effect on his match day coaching.
I hope if this is the case we can get that support and let the coach, coach.

Sorry this doesn't wash much any more. Every club has had to evolve and deal with the cuts. We do too. Did we make the wrong cuts? if so address that, but stop using it as an excuse.

[ledge]

Sorry this doesn't wash much any more. Every club has had to evolve and deal with the cuts. We do too. Did we make the wrong cuts? if so address that, but stop using it as an excuse.

I remember the same being said about previous coaches with us. Seems to be a pattern going back further than Bevo .

[bulldogtragic]

I can’t link it. But the club says it will do an internal review re the season. Robbo has an article tonight about why it needs to be external and include Chris Grant in it. It makes perfect sense for a change for him. Shame we aren’t looking to do something like Robbi says to find any weakness and strengthen it using some outside eyes. It’s a missed opportunity for ourselves to look at ourselves and not have an external review. But the club will look at whether the club was right to extend Bevo’s contract. I wonder what the club will find?

If everything is about getting better, to achieve better results I’m not sure why we’d not want an external review.

[angelopetraglia]

Footy Classified piece "There is a lot of tension between management and Luke Beveridge."


https://twitter.com/FootyonNine/status/1696132747796811845?s=20