Sharp Axes

[angelopetraglia]

Caroline Wilson

"There is huge frustration with Bailey Smith, he is on a huge amount of money, he is clearly a very high maintenace player, several clubs looking at him pies, hawks and cats."

[hujsh]

Kornes head is too big for his body... it's odd

[angelopetraglia]

Caroline Wilson

Overtalking and correcting Kane.

"They don't have their head in the sand (Grant, Darcy and Ameet), they have a coach who can be unpredicatable, who has been backed into a corner, who has lost one of his best mates in Smith who up until now has ruled the roost and they have decided to back him so they are all in on backing him for now"

[angelopetraglia]

Caro actually balanced and making some sense in that commentary. Sounded like she had an inside word too. She has a contact I feel.

[angelopetraglia]

Kornes head is too big for his body... it's odd

That can happen when you run close to 200km per week. Very little body.

[angelopetraglia]

From what we are hearing.

Bevo is 100% backed into to coach next year, but they are going to use this period to get some leverage to wrestle back some control and put in some senior support for him.

[GVGjr]

What was the reference she made about Stuart Dew?

[angelopetraglia]

What was the reference she made about Stuart Dew?

She said "the club is looking at a long list of senior assitant coach candiates that they are going to bring into bolster Bevo and Dew is one of those names so there is going to be some big changes to the football department, more than what we have already seen"

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Makes a mockery out of the fake, pathetic review from last year. How can they (football admin) keep their jobs?

[bulldogtragic]

Makes a mockery out of the fake, pathetic review from last year. How can they (football admin) keep their jobs?

By promising to review themselves again.

[Danjul]

Lame joke - look at my user name.
I was hoping it was referring to your comments at the time. But I did find it amusing.

I made some in 2020 but the standard response was shut up and be grateful for the premiership. When I saw similar things after the bye in 2021 We were top of the ladder so I assumed that they didn?t matter. Seems that they did.

[GVGjr]

She said "the club is looking at a long list of senior assitant coach candiates that they are going to bring into bolster Bevo and Dew is one of those names so there is going to be some big changes to the football department, more than what we have already seen"

Right at this moment, and I'm not sure why, I think we can do better than bringing in Dew as an assistant coach. Happy to be proven wrong.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Caroline Wilson

"There is huge frustration with Bailey Smith, he is on a huge amount of money, he is clearly a very high maintenace player, several clubs looking at him pies, hawks and cats."

Do we have trouble managing players who aren't choir boys? Stringer, Dahl, Hunter etc? Libba might be the exception. Hunter seems to be doing fine at Melbourne and Jake hasn't been sacked yet. Although the latter is at essendon so who knows.

[G-Mo77]

Do we have trouble managing players who aren't choir boys? Stringer, Dahl, Hunter etc? Libba might be the exception. Hunter seems to be doing fine at Melbourne and Jake hasn't been sacked yet. Although the latter is at essendon so who knows.

I think the same thing. If Libba wasn't from royal Bulldog blood I reckon he would have been thrown on the scrap heap as well.

[angelopetraglia]

Do we have trouble managing players who aren't choir boys? Stringer, Dahl, Hunter etc? Libba might be the exception. Hunter seems to be doing fine at Melbourne and Jake hasn't been sacked yet. Although the latter is at essendon so who knows.

On the flip side. Did we lose Dunkley because we tolerated too much of their poor behaviour? (If you listen to some narratives)

[D Mitchell]

On the flip side. Did we lose Dunkley because we tolerated too much of their poor behaviour? (If you listen to some narratives)
A variation on the narrative you refer to is that disquiet among the players derives from a recent crackdown on poor behaviour. It goes that the club, really Bev, tolerated players letting their hair down off field but that changed and the club is now less tolerant, seen by players as intrusive. The source is from "someone who could be expected to know".

[bulldogtragic]

A variation on the narrative you refer to is that disquiet among the players derives from a recent crackdown on poor behaviour. It goes that the club, really Bev, tolerated players letting their hair down off field but that changed and the club is now less tolerant, seen by players as intrusive. The source is from "someone who could be expected to know".

Interesting. I remember Clay Smith talking to Mike Sheahan saying that he would hyped after games and that Bevo would allow him (like special dispensation) to let his hair down and have a decent drink after games. Smith said it was important to his management.

Maybe some other folk took/are taking a mile after Bevo gave them an inch. If that’s changed now, you could see why some players might be annoyed that this has been going on for 9 years and now you stop it.

[GVGjr]

A variation on the narrative you refer to is that disquiet among the players derives from a recent crackdown on poor behaviour. It goes that the club, really Bev, tolerated players letting their hair down off field but that changed and the club is now less tolerant, seen by players as intrusive. The source is from "someone who could be expected to know".

If a coaching team is inconsistent with their behavioral standards then it's going alienate some people at the club. Having just one assistant who's a bit more flexible than the others has the potential to create an issue.
Some of the reports of what happened in 2017 and what some players got away with probably explains why it took a few years to get back into the finals mix. Losing momentum is a real challenge to overcome and we've done that a couple of times under Bevo.

We should accept that some players will take brief detours along the way because it's going to happen but you address it in a mature way once or twice before saying enough is enough.

In the longer term if Bevo has now narrowed that tolerance level it will be a win for the club but there might be some bumps along the way if a player or two try and test his resolve.

[ledge]

If management and coach are cracking down on party time , why would Smith want out he is a fitness fanatic , would think he would love it .
What’s Caro mean by Smith being hard to manage ?
Also Caro saying all management backing Luke and in the same sentence says there is tension between the two.
Oh and Bailey Williams not happy but signs a 3 year deal.
She is just making up stuff .
She also said Simpson was gone at WC .

[bornadog]

If management and coach are cracking down on party time , why would Smith want out he is a fitness fanatic , would think he would love it .
What’s Caro mean by Smith being hard to manage ?
Also Caro saying all management backing Luke and in the same sentence says there is tension between the two.
Oh and Bailey Williams not happy but signs a 3 year deal.
She is just making up stuff .
She also said Simpson was gone at WC .

Hard to manage due to his mental health issues.

Agree she is making things up- Caro says one thing, Tom Morris says he is going nowhere and Ralph keeps changing his mind. None of them know.

[hujsh]

Hard to manage due to his mental health issues.

Agree she is making things up- Caro says one thing, Tom Morris says he is going nowhere and Ralph keeps changing his mind. None of them know.

Reading between the lines maybe he has said he's open to a trade and if the club gets an offer they like from a team he likes he'll move and if not he'll honor his contact and see where things sit next year (gone if he's not in the middle)

[bornadog]

Reading between the lines maybe he has said he's open to a trade and if the club gets an offer they like from a team he likes he'll move and if not he'll honor his contact and see where things sit next year (gone if he's not in the middle)

The CBA noise is actually a bit of rubbish. If you look at his stats here (https://dfsaustralia.com/afl-cbas/?team=WBD&season=2021) and the last few years, he hasn't been in the centre alot. Even in 2021 he didn't attend a CBA in the PF and only 3 in the semi final.

Again, I say, we don't know what is going on. I think the media has built this up from a few conversations with Geelong, and now Hawks saying well if he is available we would like him.

I guess time will tell.

[bulldogtragic]

Reading between the lines maybe he has said he's open to a trade and if the club gets an offer they like from a team he likes he'll move and if not he'll honor his contact and see where things sit next year (gone if he's not in the middle)

That’s how it sounds to me. It sounds well postured. We say we won’t trade (like Dunkley/Essendon), while the players manager (I presume) says well he’s prepared to go elsewhere.

Clubs hear that and go after him. We hold firm. If something really juicy comes up, then we decide to keep or trade him.

Not a bad position to be in for all parties.

[ledge]

It’s quite funny though . When they say other clubs are looking at him .
Wouldn’t all clubs be looking at all players a year before coming out of contract ?
You could ask all the other clubs if they are interested in Smith they would all say yes we would be.

[hujsh]

The CBA noise is actually a bit of rubbish. If you look at his stats here (https://dfsaustralia.com/afl-cbas/?team=WBD&season=2021) and the last few years, he hasn't been in the centre alot. Even in 2021 he didn't attend a CBA in the PF and only 3 in the semi final.

Again, I say, we don't know what is going on. I think the media has built this up from a few conversations with Geelong, and now Hawks saying well if he is available we would like him.

I guess time will tell.

We don't know everything but I think given his age and status and poor year it's somewhat likely he feels he needs to have that greater opportunity to show his talent

[bulldogsthru&thru]

On the flip side. Did we lose Dunkley because we tolerated too much of their poor behaviour? (If you listen to some narratives)

It's a good point but perhaps Dunkley was demanding too strict of a standard? It'd be interesting to know how he finds the behaviour at Brisbane.

[GVGjr]

It’s quite funny though . When they say other clubs are looking at him .
Wouldn’t all clubs be looking at all players a year before coming out of contract ?
You could ask all the other clubs if they are interested in Smith they would all say yes we would be.

As talented as he is not all clubs would want him or would be willing to part with enough to try and get him.
Clubs meet with player managers and have a lot of discussions with then if they have an interest in any of their players.
The player manager weighs up if that is something that might sound tempting to his player. It starts from there.
Occasionally a player manager will also leak information to the media to help along the negotiation from their perspective or create some discussion/speculation.

[Grantysghost]

As talented as he is not all clubs would want him or would be willing to part with enough to try and get him.
Clubs meet with player managers and have a lot of discussions with then if they have an interest in any of their players.
The player manager weighs up if that is something that might sound tempting to his player. It starts from there.
Occasionally a player manager will also leak information to the media to help along the negotiation from their perspective or create some discussion/speculation.

My strong suspicion is that's what is happening here. I'm starting to think Bailey will seek perceived greener pastures.

[bulldogtragic]

My strong suspicion is that's what is happening here. I'm starting to think Bailey will seek perceived greener pastures.

But this is ok. He’s under contract. The only way he goes is if we want the trade to happen. So we say we aren’t listening until such point as we get an offer too good to refuse. So let 17 clubs chase him if need be. He can’t play anywhere else next year without our say so.

[Grantysghost]

But this is ok. He’s under contract. The only way he goes is if we want the trade to happen. So we say we aren’t listening until such point as we get an offer too good to refuse. So let 17 clubs chase him if need be. He can’t play anywhere else next year without our say so.

Yes that's a strong position for us. Unlike when Dunkley pulled the rip cord. Not even a GF appearance could dissuade him.

[ledge]

Yes that's a strong position for us. Unlike when Dunkley pulled the rip cord. Not even a GF appearance could dissuade him.

Let’s face it Dunkley made the right move. Look at us and the Lions now .

[bornadog]

My strong suspicion is that's what is happening here. I'm starting to think Bailey will seek perceived greener pastures.

Except the PM came out the other day to say he is not going anywhere

[bornadog]

Let’s face it Dunkley made the right move. Look at us and the Lions now .

https://www.gifcen.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/money-gif-9.gif

[bulldogtragic]

Yes that's a strong position for us. Unlike when Dunkley pulled the rip cord. Not even a GF appearance could dissuade him.

I suspect he had his mind made up back in 2020. Whenever given a chance by the media to say he would stay around, even after the GF, he never took it.

On the other hand other players have asked for trades, not got them, and then had great careers (see Ryan O’Keefe).

If we wants to stay and we want that too, then great. If there’s a fight between clubs to out bid each other to get him and we got a great result out of a trade, then that’s good too. Multiple clubs going after him, knowing he’s under contract is not a bad position for us.

Our issue is if we just postpone this, and especially Naughton and more English as a RFA next year and all out of contract, that could be disastrous if the club goes very poorly next year and there’s a sacked coach and the joint stinks. So we really need to have all three locked into a contract or a trade. JUH gets signed and re-learns how to kick for goal and becomes a dominant KPF.

[azabob]

https://www.gifcen.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/money-gif-9.gif

Do you truly believe Dunkley's decision was solely money?

[azabob]

But this is ok. He’s under contract. The only way he goes is if we want the trade to happen. So we say we aren’t listening until such point as we get an offer too good to refuse. So let 17 clubs chase him if need be. He can’t play anywhere else next year without our say so.

If he asks to go, we move him on. This will be our best chance to maximise what he is worth on the trade table.

Otherwise it will play out like Dunkley 2.0

[GVGjr]

Do you truly believe Dunkley's decision was solely money?

Some will see it that way as it means you don't have to look at the reasons any deeper and it fits a "greedy player, case closed" narrative.
I don't think it was the primary reason but he wasn't probably going there for a lesser offer than what he could have got from us.

Unlike many players who sign a lucrative deal, Dunks has followed it through with excellent form.

[GVGjr]

If he asks to go, we move him on. This will be our best chance to maximise what he is worth on the trade table.

Otherwise it will play out like Dunkley 2.0

I agree that we lose just a little bit of power next year if he asks for a move then.

[bornadog]

Do you truly believe Dunkley's decision was solely money?

He was always jealous of Bont being number one and the money Bont earns. Yeah he had issues with some players like Hunter, but in the end a long contract with big dollars and ability to live in Qld suited him.

[ledge]

He was always jealous of Bont being number one and the money Bont earns. Yeah he had issues with some players like Hunter, but in the end a long contract with big dollars and ability to live in Qld suited him.

I would take it , AFL football isn’t a long career . Set yourself up . Live in the sun .
I’m considering moving to QLD soon . When I retire .

[angelopetraglia]

He was always jealous of Bont being number one and the money Bont earns. Yeah he had issues with some players like Hunter, but in the end a long contract with big dollars and ability to live in Qld suited him.

Agree with that narrative 100%. Also jealous of the $$$ Treloar was earning. Also has a very, very high opinion of himself. Also, he is a huge follower of American sports and you can see he buys into that athlete first mentality they have in the NBA and NFL (do what is right for you and make it about yourself).

I have taken that view from listening to him speak on his podcast many times.

[bornadog]

Agree with that narrative 100%. Also jealous of the $$$ Treloar was earning. Also has a very, very high opinion of himself. Also, he is a huge follower of American sports and you can see he buys into that athlete first mentality they have in the NBA and NFL (do what is right for you and make it about yourself).

I have taken that view from listening to him speak on his podcast many times.

Yes his best mate on $900k - spot on

[Virgin-Dog]

Right at this moment, and I'm not sure why, I think we can do better than bringing in Dew as an assistant coach. Happy to be proven wrong.
I like the idea of picking up Dew, although hopefully it?s one of many changes

[Danjul]

https://www.gifcen.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/money-gif-9.gif
History has shown that we should have taken more notice of Dunkley. Then the club would have seen more success (money) too.

[Danjul]

He was always jealous of Bont being number one and the money Bont earns. Yeah he had issues with some players like Hunter, but in the end a long contract with big dollars and ability to live in Qld suited him.
I am jealous of Dunkley.

[bornadog]

History has shown that we should have taken more notice of Dunkley. Then the club would have seen more success (money) too.

More notice with what?


I am jealous of Dunkley.

Are you a failed footballer Danjul :D

[Danjul]

More notice with what?



Are you a failed footballer Danjul :D

I failed football and sport generally when I got measles, it can leave permanent damage . But I was lucky, others got polio.

[Rocket Science]

Look he's a consummate dolt but dare we pause for a sec to ponder whether Dunkley might've also had a gutful of busting his arse at all times in a committed, team-oriented role while watching colleagues casually pick and choose when they 'crack in' before concluding "stuff this"?

Or is it too real and awful to fathom?

I loathe defending the turncoat but as we keep a forlorn eye on September from the wrong side of the fence, imagine if you will, a team with its name pencilled into a finals spot that inexplicably stops playing football in the middle of a game against the 16th placed opponent, then rather than committing the scare to memory and returning razor-focused with it all to play for, promptly lays down in front of an expectant home crowd against the feeblest mob to prop up an entire ladder in living memory, and here we are.

But nahhh, the best and fairest winner wanted out because he's a bit weird and only cares about the folding stuff.

[Mantis]

Look he's a consummate dolt but dare we pause for a sec to ponder whether Dunkley might've also had a gutful of busting his arse at all times in a committed, team-oriented role while watching colleagues casually pick and choose when they 'crack in' before concluding "stuff this"?

Or is it too real and awful to fathom?

I loathe defending the turncoat but as we keep a forlorn eye on September from the wrong side of the fence, imagine if you will, a team with its name pencilled into a finals spot that inexplicably stops playing football in the middle of a game against the 16th placed opponent, then rather than committing the scare to memory and returning razor-focused with it all to play for, promptly lays down in front of an expectant home crowd against the feeblest mob to prop up an entire ladder in living memory, and here we are.

But nahhh, the best and fairest winner wanted out because he's a bit weird and only cares about the folding stuff.

Nailed it!

Dunks gave us unwavering effort... as you've rightly pointed out his ex-teammates don't.

[Grantysghost]

Nailed it!

Dunks gave us unwavering effort... as you've rightly pointed out his ex-teammates don't.

I don't disagree, my question: Are there no players at the Lions that fit this category?

[EasternWest]

https://www.gifcen.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/money-gif-9.gif

I don't think this is the flex you think it is.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I don't disagree, my question: Are there no players at the Lions that fit this category?

There might be a couple. We have an overwhelming majority some of which are leaders.

[The bulldog tragician]

Look he's a consummate dolt but dare we pause for a sec to ponder whether Dunkley might've also had a gutful of busting his arse at all times in a committed, team-oriented role while watching colleagues casually pick and choose when they 'crack in' before concluding "stuff this"?

Or is it too real and awful to fathom?

I loathe defending the turncoat but as we keep a forlorn eye on September from the wrong side of the fence, imagine if you will, a team with its name pencilled into a finals spot that inexplicably stops playing football in the middle of a game against the 16th placed opponent, then rather than committing the scare to memory and returning razor-focused with it all to play for, promptly lays down in front of an expectant home crowd against the feeblest mob to prop up an entire ladder in living memory, and here we are.

But nahhh, the best and fairest winner wanted out because he's a bit weird and only cares about the folding stuff.

Some really great points here and I do find it sobering that we either don’t manage the “rogues” or have too many of them. But given he initially attempted to flee to that high performing club of rigorous standards Essington, complete with Jake Stringer, I’m not sure this was all about the desire to move to a better culture.

[Jasper]

Matt Inness who looks after High performance sits on the bench on game day and works as an assistant to Bevo. Just another example of doing more than one job.

Innes isnt an assistant is he? Isnt he on the bench because that is part of his match day duties and he measures the time on and off the ground and how and when players should come off?

[bornadog]

Innes isnt an assistant is he? Isnt he on the bench because that is part of his match day duties and he measures the time on and off the ground and how and when players should come off?

Correct, he isn't an official assistant but does more than his normal duties. I think quiet a few do that due to cuts in footy dept.

I have seen him on the phone to other coaches - so something going on there than just measuring time on and off the field.

BTW - JOD was a great find and recommendation by Matt.

[Jasper]

Correct, he isn't an official assistant but does more than his normal duties. I think quiet a few do that due to cuts in footy dept.

I have seen him on the phone to other coaches - so something going on there than just measuring time on and off the field.



There is of course a muck in component to all "head of" roles on match day but he is communicating to the line coaches which players might need a rest and how they want to manage it and any relevant data they might need.

[Rocket Science]

Some really great points here and I do find it sobering that we either don’t manage the “rogues” or have too many of them. But given he initially attempted to flee to that high performing club of rigorous standards Essington, complete with Jake Stringer, I’m not sure this was all about the desire to move to a better culture.

My greatest lament in all this is that we didn't banish him to Windy Hill in the first place. I'd certainly have a lot less smoke coming out of my ears.

Sure, it's undoubtedly complex, or as complex as things get for our smoothie-brained defector, but having just pressed flush on another year of Marcus Bontempelli in the most pitiful way conceivable you'd hope we're not too preoccupied with why Dunkley left at the expense of getting to the bottom of why he didn't stay, and fixing it.

If we're serious about success, anything else is a distraction.

[bornadog]

My greatest lament in all this is that we didn't banish him to Windy Hill in the first place. I'd certainly have a lot less smoke coming out of my ears.

Sure, it's undoubtedly complex, or as complex as things get for our smoothie-brained defector, but having just pressed flush on another year of Marcus Bontempelli in the most pitiful way conceivable you'd hope we're not too preoccupied with why Dunkley left at the expense of getting to the bottom of why he didn't stay, and fixing it.

If we're serious about success, anything else is a distraction.

I think we need to get over the Stringers, Dahls, Dunkleys etc leaving - Every club loses players for one reason or another.

[angelopetraglia]

Some really great points here and I do find it sobering that we either don?t manage the ?rogues? or have too many of them. But given he initially attempted to flee to that high performing club of rigorous standards Essington, complete with Jake Stringer, I?m not sure this was all about the desire to move to a better culture.

Yep. Nailed it. To a club that has become irrelvant and hasnt won a final in 20 years.

[Rocket Science]

I think we need to get over the Stringers, Dahls, Dunkleys etc leaving - Every club loses players for one reason or another.

Humbly, one of these is not like the others.

[angelopetraglia]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/afl-trade-news-2023-western-bulldogs-teammates-expect-bailey-smith-to-stay-at-the-club/news-story/9c1286b57bd4fefa21628882c9b9a48c

Treloar also launched an impassioned defence of under siege coach Luke Beveridge.

Beveridge has come under fire after his Dogs finished the season in ninth, the first time Beveridge’s Dogs have missed the finals since 2018.

The club has backed in the coach and looks set for a major restructure of the coaching panel after assistants in club great Rohan Smith and Marc Webb were let go.

“I love playing for him and I genuinely believe he has a passion and a want to get the best out of all of his players and he has done that for me,” Treloar said of Beveridge.

“I love playing under him and all the players do. I can’t wait for that noise to dwindle out and not have to worry about that because it does take a toll on a lot of people.”

[The bulldog tragician]

It’s interesting, I reckon, the noise either way about whether the players do or don’t love Bevo. In the women’s World Cup, Spain were victorious even though the majority had vowed not to play until their Federation got rid of their toxic, over - controlling coach. Though most came back when their ruling body refused to budge, some felt so strongly they continued their refusal and missed the tournament. It was noted they didn’t celebrate with him and relations remained cool, yet they still pulled off a spectacular victory. Not that I want our players to hate the coach, just curious about how big a role “ playing for the coach” actually plays. I guess there could be another category, of “love the guy, hate (or don’t understand) the game plan” too.

[angelopetraglia]

Message from Bont "Now is the time to process" https://twitter.com/westernbulldogs/status/1696412735959875710?s=20

[Mantis]

Message from Bont "Now is the time to process" https://twitter.com/westernbulldogs/status/1696412735959875710?s=20

He spoke well, again...but when do we get a message from Grant or Bains?

[angelopetraglia]

He spoke well, again...but when do we get a message from Grant or Bains?

Grant went on SEN. Bains did an interview with 7 before the Geelong game. Darcy answered questions on MMM.

The only person who has been completely silent is KWW.

[GVGjr]

He spoke well, again...but when do we get a message from Grant or Bains?

Such a fantastic leader and a real calming influence. We are privileged to have him at the club.
Tend to agree that a message from Grant should be forthcoming because every caller on SEN or the text messages they read out from Dogs supporters indicated a level of anger with our performance. Letting the members know the club isn't happy with the performance and will start a process to review and rectify would be well received.

[Rocket Science]

Such a fantastic leader and a real calming influence. We are privileged to have him at the club.
Tend to agree that a message from Grant should be forthcoming because every caller on SEN or the text messages they read out from Dogs supporters indicated a level of anger with our performance. Letting the members know the club isn't happy with the performance and will start a process to review and rectify would be well received.

Which is why they keep wheeling out the Bont while the rage is so fresh, he's the only one who won't elicit a hail of rotten fruit.

Doing what's best for the team as usual. He should be beatified.

[GVGjr]

Grant went on SEN. Bains did an interview with 7 before the Geelong game. Darcy answered questions on MMM.

The only person who has been completely silent is KWW.


Which is why they keep wheeling out the Bont while the rage is so fresh, he's the only one who won't elicit a hail of rotten fruit.

Doing what's best for the team as usual. He should be beatified.

Even Essendon's president has messaged the supporters

Essendon president David Barham has sent a letter to club members after their 2023 season came to end last week.

After a promising start to the year, Brad Scott’s side produced too many poor results that saw their finals chances diminish towards the end of the year.

Their 126-point loss to Greater Western Sydney in Round 23 was the final nail in the coffin.

In a letter released on Tuesday afternoon, Barham acknowledges the club is disappointed to miss finals, but concedes the reality is they weren’t good enough this year.

“It was disappointing to miss the finals and the last two games were particularly disappointing. In a year characterised by dogged, determined performances, these last two matches were out of character and unacceptable to all,” Barham wrote.

“The reality is, we were not good enough to play September football. The ladder doesn’t lie, and our job is to accept where we are, put our heads down, and get better and that’s what we are doing.

[Sedat]

The only person who has been completely silent is KWW.
Who?

[angelopetraglia]

I love Bont.

[angelopetraglia]

Who?

Exactly.

[Grantysghost]

He spoke well, again...but when do we get a message from Grant or Bains?

He said he was speaking for the playing group.

[azabob]

Grant went on SEN. Bains did an interview with 7 before the Geelong game. Darcy answered questions on MMM.

The only person who has been completely silent is KWW.

Yeah but Bontempelli has done a couple of these. Not sure we can count Darcy as speaking publically as it was on his own radio show/station.

[azabob]

He said he was speaking for the playing group.

GG, Mantis didn't ask about the players did he?

[Grantysghost]

Grant went on SEN. Bains did an interview with 7 before the Geelong game. Darcy answered questions on MMM.

The only person who has been completely silent is KWW.

Is that unusual or are we just used to her predecessors?

Serious question I have no idea what other club presidents do.

[azabob]

Such a fantastic leader and a real calming influence. We are privileged to have him at the club.
Tend to agree that a message from Grant should be forthcoming because every caller on SEN or the text messages they read out from Dogs supporters indicated a level of anger with our performance. Letting the members know the club isn't happy with the performance and will start a process to review and rectify would be well received.

Social media is also a flood with people saying they won't be renewing their memberships.

[Grantysghost]

GG, Mantis didn't ask about the players did he?

Bont was speaking on behalf of the players. The notion he gets wheeled out to buffer is ludicrous in my opinion.
I don't really want to speak for Mantis.

[Grantysghost]

Social media is also a flood with people saying they won't be renewing their memberships.

Bye.

[azabob]

Bont was speaking on behalf of the players. The notion he gets wheeled out to buffer is ludicrous in my opinion.
I don't really want to speak for Mantis.

I think that is everyone's view, Bont shouldn't be facing up to this.

I took your reply to Mantis as you were defending "management" KWW, Baines and Grant.

[azabob]

Bye.

Yeah people can do what they want and the club should not act based on membership threats. Reality is though, we have strived so hard to get to mid 50 thousand members. I'd hate for it to get back under 50,000 due to poor communication from the club.

[bulldogtragic]

Who?

Katosi Water Works (KWW), water treatment facility in Uganda.

Not sure why they?d be commenting on a stink not in Uganda.

[Grantysghost]

I think that is everyone's view, Bont shouldn't be facing up to this.

I took your reply to Mantis as you were defending "management" KWW, Baines and Grant.

I was ;)

The way i see it.

Bont talks for the players.
Bevo speaks for the coaches.
Grant speaks for the footy department
Bains speaks for the executive.
KWW speaks for the club.

So... I wouldn't mind a message from Kylie.

[bornadog]

Humbly, one of these is not like the others.
True, but they are gone and they are dead to me.

[angelopetraglia]

A FAKE email from KWW (this is a work of pure fiction). As we have not heard from KWW. This is to fill the void before we see the real message.


Subject: A Unified Path Forward: Learning from Our Setbacks

Dear Members of the Western Bulldogs Family,

Greetings to each of you, champions of the blue, red, and white—the emblems of our cherished Western Bulldogs Football Club. As President, I am humbled by your steadfastness, which resonates deeply with the values that define our community.

In the spirit of our working-class heritage and the neighborhoods that shape us, I extend my heartfelt gratitude for your enduring support. Much like the timeless tales of Disney, your unwavering commitment infuses our journey with purpose, resilience, and an unwavering determination.

Our journey this year has been one of aspiration and tribulation. Our sights were set on a finals spot, yet the game against West Coast proved to be a moment we didn't anticipate—a stark reminder of the unpredictability that life often presents.

The game against West Coast stands as a reflection of the challenges faced by our working-class ethos—a reminder that resilience is born from setbacks, and unity is forged through shared experiences. We acknowledge the poor performance and the disappointment it brought, recognising that the players let each other and our beloved club down.

In this pivotal moment, we are called to come together, as a community and a team, and learn from our shortcomings. It is a reminder that we must never let such an outcome recur. We must transform this setback into an opportunity for growth and progress, carrying the lessons forward to ensure that we emerge stronger and more united.

Marcus Bontempelli's luminous presence is a beacon of hope—a testament to the potential that resides within us all. His leadership serves as a reminder that even in moments of difficulty, there are sparks of brilliance that guide us forward.

Our coach, Luke Beveridge, navigates the storm with resilience, bearing the scrutiny with strength. As we stand behind him, we reaffirm our belief that, together, we can rise above challenges and carve a path to success.

I am pleased to share that we are taking proactive measures to reinforce our football department with seasoned experts. This strategic decision underscores our commitment to support Luke Beveridge and uphold his coaching prowess. This step aligns perfectly with our working-class values—an embodiment of our determination to reach new heights.

As we reflect on our journey so far and look ahead with determination, let us remember that our club is more than just football—it's about resilience, unity, and growth.

To our esteemed 55,000 members, your dedication resonates deeply. Thank you for your steadfastness, even in times of adversity. Together, we are crafting a legacy that reflects our shared values and aspirations.

As we tread the path ahead, let your support echo as a resounding declaration of our collective strength. Our story, like those that inspire generations, is woven with threads of learning, unity, and the indomitable spirit of our community.

With gratitude and an unwavering commitment to a brighter future,

President
Western Bulldogs Football Club

[bornadog]

looks set for a major restructure of the coaching panel after assistants in club great Rohan Smith and Marc Webb were let go.
Honestly can they do better - they make like Webb was sacked.


I can?t wait for that noise to dwindle out and not have to worry about that because it does take a toll on a lot of people.?

Hard on the players when people talk shit

[Grantysghost]

Subject: A Unified Path Forward: Learning from Our Setbacks

Dear Members of the Western Bulldogs Family,

Greetings to each of you, champions of the blue, red, and white—the emblems of our cherished Western Bulldogs Football Club. As President, I am humbled by your steadfastness, which resonates deeply with the values that define our community.

In the spirit of our working-class heritage and the neighborhoods that shape us, I extend my heartfelt gratitude for your enduring support. Much like the timeless tales of Disney, your unwavering commitment infuses our journey with purpose, resilience, and an unwavering determination.

Our journey this year has been one of aspiration and tribulation. Our sights were set on a finals spot, yet the game against West Coast proved to be a moment we didn't anticipate—a stark reminder of the unpredictability that life often presents.

The game against West Coast stands as a reflection of the challenges faced by our working-class ethos—a reminder that resilience is born from setbacks, and unity is forged through shared experiences. We acknowledge the poor performance and the disappointment it brought, recognising that the players let each other and our beloved club down.

In this pivotal moment, we are called to come together, as a community and a team, and learn from our shortcomings. It is a reminder that we must never let such an outcome recur. We must transform this setback into an opportunity for growth and progress, carrying the lessons forward to ensure that we emerge stronger and more united.

Marcus Bontempelli's luminous presence is a beacon of hope—a testament to the potential that resides within us all. His leadership serves as a reminder that even in moments of difficulty, there are sparks of brilliance that guide us forward.

Our coach, Luke Beveridge, navigates the storm with resilience, bearing the scrutiny with strength. As we stand behind him, we reaffirm our belief that, together, we can rise above challenges and carve a path to success.

I am pleased to share that we are taking proactive measures to reinforce our football department with seasoned experts. This strategic decision underscores our commitment to support Luke Beveridge and uphold his coaching prowess. This step aligns perfectly with our working-class values—an embodiment of our determination to reach new heights.

As we reflect on our journey so far and look ahead with determination, let us remember that our club is more than just football—it's about resilience, unity, and growth.

To our esteemed 55,000 members, your dedication resonates deeply. Thank you for your steadfastness, even in times of adversity. Together, we are crafting a legacy that reflects our shared values and aspirations.

As we tread the path ahead, let your support echo as a resounding declaration of our collective strength. Our story, like those that inspire generations, is woven with threads of learning, unity, and the indomitable spirit of our community.

With gratitude and an unwavering commitment to a brighter future,

Kylie Watson-Wheeler
President
Western Bulldogs Football Club

There you go.

Oh guys please don't jump on the Disney thing.

[bulldogtragic]

KWW did not just use this one chance to be real with us the plug Disney shows/movies right. Right? FMD.

Overall, that’s crap.

[Grantysghost]

KWW did not just use this one chance to be real with us the plug Disney right. Right? FMD.

I knew it! What about the other stuff.

Dogs and Disney aligning isnt a bad thing surely.

Let's wear a Dsrth Vader jumper for bogan I mean gather round when we inevitably face the Crows.

We aren't making money from pokies so let's make it from Disney.

[bornadog]

I was ;)

The way i see it.

Bont talks for the players.
Bevo speaks for the coaches.
Grant speaks for the footy department
Bains speaks for the executive.
KWW speaks for the club.

So... I wouldn't mind a message from Kylie.

Your wish comes true 8 minutes later :D How is that for action :D

[angelopetraglia]

mmmmmm that really wasn't KWW .... that is what Chat GPT thought KWW would say when presented with the facts at hand.

Will the real KWW please stand up? I repeat. Will the real KWW please stand up?

[whythelongface]

KWW did not just use this one chance to be real with us the plug Disney shows/movies right. Right? FMD.

It is great to finally hear from KWW but that reference to Disney is bizarre

[bornadog]

mmmmmm that really wasn't KWW .... that is what Chat GPT thought KWW would say when presented with the facts at hand.

Will the real KWW please stand up.

Was it real or not?

[angelopetraglia]

Was it real or not?

Please. Read it. It ain't real.

[bulldogtragic]

I knew it! What about the other stuff.

Dogs and Disney aligning isnt a bad thing surely.

Let's wear a Dsrth Vader jumper for bogan I mean gather round when we inevitably face the Crows.

We aren't making money from pokies so let's make it from Disney.

I think it’s a poorly worded word vomit written by a precocious wanna be speech writer. Airy fairly language when some plain speak was called for. Esteemed and indominatable we are.

[Grantysghost]

She can't win. Everyone's already made their mind up.

[bornadog]

Please. Read it. It ain't real.

Then I would suggest deleting her name off it. This is the internet and very searchable.

[angelopetraglia]

I think it’s a poorly worded word vomit written by a precocious wanna be speech writer. Airy fairly language when some plain speak was called for. Esteemed and indominatable we are.

All true. Chat GPT is the script writer. That is what it believes KWW would write when presented with the facts. It is of course fiction. We are still waiting for the real KWW to address the members.

[Grantysghost]

I think it’s a poorly worded word vomit written by a precocious wanna be speech writer. Airy fairly language when some plain speak was called for. Esteemed and indominatable we are.

Dude. I don't get this hate. She loves our club.

[bulldogtragic]

mmmmmm that really wasn't KWW .... that is what Chat GPT thought KWW would say when presented with the facts at hand.

Will the real KWW please stand up? I repeat. Will the real KWW please stand up?

No way she wrote that. Who would write that and plug their day job in such times???

[angelopetraglia]

Then I would suggest deleting her name off it. This is the internet and very searchable.

You don't think it has enough satire in it to be seen as completely and utterly fake? Apologies for any confusion. I thought it was clear it was fake from the way it was written. The refefence to Disney. The verbose language. The apology for the West Coast game.

Satire. But gee whiz. Chat GPT is very good.

[Grantysghost]

All true. Chat GPT is the script writer. That is what it believes KWW would write when presented with the facts. It is of course fiction. We are still waiting for the real KWW to address the members.

Rather than dissecting the prose, what do you think about the message?

[bulldogtragic]

Dude. I don't get this hate. She loves our club.

No way she wrote it. My issue is whoever wrote it. It’s not good and no way she wrote it.

[Grantysghost]

You don't think it has enough satire in it to be seen as completely and utterly fake?

AP. Cmon man.

[angelopetraglia]

AP. Cmon man.

Apologies. I thought it was clear it was fake from the way it was written. However, it does reafirm how scared I am about AI. Gee whiz Chat GPT is very good. Didn't even need to give it that much of a prompt. i.e. "write this in the style of the president of disney"

[Grantysghost]

Apologies. I thought it was clear it was fake from the way it was written. However, it does reafirm how scared I am about AI. Gee whiz Chat GPT is very good. Didn't even need to give it that much of a prompt. i.e. "write this in the style of the president of disney"

Haha... Very good.

It does have a chat gpt feel to it...

But the message guys the message! That's the important part surely.

[hujsh]

Makes sense it was Chat GPT the way it heavy handedly kept repeating 'working class background' but I was ready to be angry if that was real haha. I kept getting annoyed Kylie wasn't actually saying anything so that's a relief I guess (you bastard)

[angelopetraglia]

One extra prompt. Write this in the style of Donald Trump. I think I like this version better.

Subject: Bulldogs Unleashed: Rising Stronger and Winning Big League!

Hello Phenomenal Bulldogs Team Members,

Listen up, folks! This is your fearless President, and I'm coming at you with the kind of energy that's been turning heads for years. We're in this together, and I want you to know that your support has been nothing short of tremendous.

Let's talk straight about that showdown against West Coast. No sugarcoating, no fancy talk—it was a letdown. I mean, come on, it was a performance that left us all shaking our heads. We let each other down, and that's not how we roll. Not on my watch.

But here's the deal: setbacks are just setups for some major comebacks. Winners don't back down; winners learn, adapt, and charge forward. We're turning this situation around and making sure it NEVER happens again. We're taking that disappointment and using it as fuel to rocket ourselves to the top.

Marcus Bontempelli? He's not just a player—he's a game-changer, a force of nature. Just like the heroes in those epic Disney stories, he's stepping up and leading us like a true champion.

Now, our coach, Luke Beveridge? He's no stranger to pressure. He's got the guts and grit it takes to lead us to victory. Let's show him the kind of support that leaves no doubt—we're backing him like winners do.

And here's the big one: we're pulling out all the stops. We're bringing in top-notch experts to supercharge our football department. Yeah, you heard that right. We're making moves, big-league moves, to give Coach Beveridge the tools he needs to lead us to glory. It's a game-changer, folks, and it's happening NOW.

To the incredible 55,000 members of the Bulldogs family, you're the heartbeat of this team. Your loyalty, your dedication—it's what sets us apart. Let's keep that fire burning as we charge forward, united and unstoppable!

So get ready, because we're on a mission to Unleash the Bulldogs! We're talking about leaving a legacy that's fierce, victorious, and remembered for generations.

Stay fired up, stay focused, and get ready to WIN,

President
Western Bulldogs Football Club

[bulldogtragic]

I think it?s a poorly worded word vomit written by a precocious wanna be speech writer. Airy fairly language when some plain speak was called for. Esteemed and indominatable we are.


She can't win. Everyone's already made their mind up.

Defending a pretend made up email against my actually truthful comments?

[Grantysghost]

One extra prompt. Write this in the style of Donald Trump. I think I like this version better.

Subject: Bulldogs Unleashed: Rising Stronger and Winning Big League!

Hello Phenomenal Bulldogs Team Members,

Listen up, folks! This is your fearless President, and I'm coming at you with the kind of energy that's been turning heads for years. We're in this together, and I want you to know that your support has been nothing short of tremendous.

Let's talk straight about that showdown against West Coast. No sugarcoating, no fancy talk—it was a letdown. I mean, come on, it was a performance that left us all shaking our heads. We let each other down, and that's not how we roll. Not on my watch.

But here's the deal: setbacks are just setups for some major comebacks. Winners don't back down; winners learn, adapt, and charge forward. We're turning this situation around and making sure it NEVER happens again. We're taking that disappointment and using it as fuel to rocket ourselves to the top.

Marcus Bontempelli? He's not just a player—he's a game-changer, a force of nature. Just like the heroes in those epic Disney stories, he's stepping up and leading us like a true champion.

Now, our coach, Luke Beveridge? He's no stranger to pressure. He's got the guts and grit it takes to lead us to victory. Let's show him the kind of support that leaves no doubt—we're backing him like winners do.

And here's the big one: we're pulling out all the stops. We're bringing in top-notch experts to supercharge our football department. Yeah, you heard that right. We're making moves, big-league moves, to give Coach Beveridge the tools he needs to lead us to glory. It's a game-changer, folks, and it's happening NOW.

To the incredible 55,000 members of the Bulldogs family, you're the heartbeat of this team. Your loyalty, your dedication—it's what sets us apart. Let's keep that fire burning as we charge forward, united and unstoppable!

So get ready, because we're on a mission to Unleash the Bulldogs! We're talking about leaving a legacy that's fierce, victorious, and remembered for generations.

Stay fired up, stay focused, and get ready to WIN,

President
Western Bulldogs Football Club

Gold do it as Kylie pretending to be Donald.

[azabob]

Apologies. I thought it was clear it was fake from the way it was written. However, it does reafirm how scared I am about AI. Gee whiz Chat GPT is very good. Didn't even need to give it that much of a prompt. i.e. "write this in the style of the president of disney"

Mate, delete the post. It isn’t real and woof members will believe it’s real.

[Grantysghost]

Defending a pretend made up email against my actually truthful comments?

It exposes the pre determined ideas of our KWW

[hujsh]

One extra prompt. Write this in the style of Donald Trump. I think I like this version better.

Subject: Bulldogs Unleashed: Rising Stronger and Winning Big League!

Hello Phenomenal Bulldogs Team Members,

Listen up, folks! This is your fearless President, and I'm coming at you with the kind of energy that's been turning heads for years. We're in this together, and I want you to know that your support has been nothing short of tremendous.

Let's talk straight about that showdown against West Coast. No sugarcoating, no fancy talk—it was a letdown. I mean, come on, it was a performance that left us all shaking our heads. We let each other down, and that's not how we roll. Not on my watch.

But here's the deal: setbacks are just setups for some major comebacks. Winners don't back down; winners learn, adapt, and charge forward. We're turning this situation around and making sure it NEVER happens again. We're taking that disappointment and using it as fuel to rocket ourselves to the top.

Marcus Bontempelli? He's not just a player—he's a game-changer, a force of nature. Just like the heroes in those epic Disney stories, he's stepping up and leading us like a true champion.

Now, our coach, Luke Beveridge? He's no stranger to pressure. He's got the guts and grit it takes to lead us to victory. Let's show him the kind of support that leaves no doubt—we're backing him like winners do.

And here's the big one: we're pulling out all the stops. We're bringing in top-notch experts to supercharge our football department. Yeah, you heard that right. We're making moves, big-league moves, to give Coach Beveridge the tools he needs to lead us to glory. It's a game-changer, folks, and it's happening NOW.

To the incredible 55,000 members of the Bulldogs family, you're the heartbeat of this team. Your loyalty, your dedication—it's what sets us apart. Let's keep that fire burning as we charge forward, united and unstoppable!

So get ready, because we're on a mission to Unleash the Bulldogs! We're talking about leaving a legacy that's fierce, victorious, and remembered for generations.

Stay fired up, stay focused, and get ready to WIN,

President
Western Bulldogs Football Club

We did everything right and they lost to West Coast

[Grantysghost]

Mate, delete the post. It isn’t real and woof members will believe it’s real.

Had me going for a bit. Nice work AP.

I'm tired ha. I've been working 18 hour days.

#jesuiskww

[The bulldog tragician]

One extra prompt. Write this in the style of Donald Trump. I think I like this version better.

Subject: Bulldogs Unleashed: Rising Stronger and Winning Big League!

Hello Phenomenal Bulldogs Team Members,

Listen up, folks! This is your fearless President, and I'm coming at you with the kind of energy that's been turning heads for years. We're in this together, and I want you to know that your support has been nothing short of tremendous.

Let's talk straight about that showdown against West Coast. No sugarcoating, no fancy talk—it was a letdown. I mean, come on, it was a performance that left us all shaking our heads. We let each other down, and that's not how we roll. Not on my watch.

But here's the deal: setbacks are just setups for some major comebacks. Winners don't back down; winners learn, adapt, and charge forward. We're turning this situation around and making sure it NEVER happens again. We're taking that disappointment and using it as fuel to rocket ourselves to the top.

Marcus Bontempelli? He's not just a player—he's a game-changer, a force of nature. Just like the heroes in those epic Disney stories, he's stepping up and leading us like a true champion.

Now, our coach, Luke Beveridge? He's no stranger to pressure. He's got the guts and grit it takes to lead us to victory. Let's show him the kind of support that leaves no doubt—we're backing him like winners do.

And here's the big one: we're pulling out all the stops. We're bringing in top-notch experts to supercharge our football department. Yeah, you heard that right. We're making moves, big-league moves, to give Coach Beveridge the tools he needs to lead us to glory. It's a game-changer, folks, and it's happening NOW.

To the incredible 55,000 members of the Bulldogs family, you're the heartbeat of this team. Your loyalty, your dedication—it's what sets us apart. Let's keep that fire burning as we charge forward, united and unstoppable!

So get ready, because we're on a mission to Unleash the Bulldogs! We're talking about leaving a legacy that's fierce, victorious, and remembered for generations.

Stay fired up, stay focused, and get ready to WIN,

President
Western Bulldogs Football Club
Trump would deny we lost to WC. “We had a beautiful victory. The Joe Biden crime family took it away from us.”

[angelopetraglia]

Mate, delete the post. It isn’t real and woof members will believe it’s real.

I will edit the post to ensure that everyone knows it is satire.

[hujsh]

Trump would deny we lost to WC. “We had a beautiful victory. The Joe Biden crime family took it away from us.”

They counted the goal wrong folks. Did you see David Rodan smiling like that? You don't smile that way unless you're hiding something and that's exactly what they did they hid the balls and replaced them to trick our boys, the best boys, into losing the match.

[Grantysghost]

I will edit the post to ensure that everyone knows it is satire.

Damn you. The Disney part and the blaming the players for West Coast did make it obvious.

If I wasn't half asleep.

That's somehting I would do so I'm pretty proud of you mate.

[bulldogtragic]

It exposes the pre determined ideas of our KWW

What?

[angelopetraglia]

Trump would deny we lost to WC. ?We had a beautiful victory. The Joe Biden crime family took it away from us.?

Yes. That is very, very true.

[Grantysghost]

What?

What what.

[bulldogtragic]

They counted the goal wrong folks. Did you see David Rodan smiling like that? You don't smile that way unless you're hiding something and that's exactly what they did they hid the balls and replaced them to trick our boys, the best boys, into losing the match.

“Gillon. I need a recount with West Coast and I just need you to find 8 points.”

[bulldogtragic]

What what.

What predetermined ideas?

[Grantysghost]

What predetermined ideas?

I don't have any but others do.

She's great by me.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't have any but others do.

She's great by me.

What were the predetermined ideas about calling out a clearly false statement? Did you support the made up statement even thought she never made it? That would be cult like.

[Grantysghost]

What were the predetermined ideas about calling out a clearly false statement? Did you support the made up statement even thought she never made it? That would be cult like.

Cult like!

That would be having never spoken to her and writing her off from a far.
Crikey...

She's a successful woman in a tough industry God speed to her.

She was anointed by Gordo, but for some reason our fans haven't taken to her.

I've met her a couple of times. She's OK by me.

What's your issue here? Im tired so im going to bite.

[bornadog]

Cult like!

That would be having never spoken to her and writing her off from a far.
Crikey...

She's a successful woman in a tough industry God speed to her.

She was anointed by Gordo, but for some reason our fans haven't taken to her.

I've met her a couple of times. She's OK by me.

What's your issue here? Im tired so im going to bite.

I met her at the season launch and had a chat- impressive.

[Grantysghost]

I met her at the season launch and had a chat- impressive.

Yep. My impression too. Working class girl made good.

[bulldogtragic]

Cult like!

That would be having never spoken to her and writing her off from a far.
Crikey...

She's a successful woman in a tough industry God speed to her.

She was anointed by Gordo, but for some reason our fans haven't taken to her.

I've met her a couple of times. She's OK by me.

What's your issue here? Im tired so im going to bite.

As I posted earlier, I have no issue with her. I had an issue with a statement clearly not written by her and said so. And it wasn’t written by her and doesn’t need defending because it wasn’t real. It isn’t real! That’s some sort of an attack on her? Or demonstrated predetermined ideas. Calling out a fake statement for being fake?

If you want to bite, I advocate biting the false statement writer. We are going back and forth over something that isn’t real. It isn’t real. It needs no attack of defence. It isn’t real!

[bulldogtragic]

P.S.

If someone defends an output of ChatGPT simply because of the name it’s falsely attributed to that is exactly cult like.

But it’s not real!

[angelopetraglia]

I met her at the season launch and had a chat- impressive.

She is the President of Disney. The greatest storytellers of our generation. She has risen throught the ranks. She would be an absolute expert in always presenting in the right way. Corporate life in a high profile position will program that into your DNA. I have no doubt she would be a polished peformer in front of and behind camera/people.

However, we just don't want a great "performer", does she have the attributes, courage and skill to actually make change or is she just happy to hold the steering wheel and not ruffle any feathers. Enjoy profile and status but not get her hands dirty.

[Grantysghost]

Agree. Love you bt *blows kisses*

[bulldogtragic]

Agree. Love you bt *blows kisses*

Are they real? I hope so.

[Grantysghost]

She is the President of Disney. She has risen throught the ranks. She would be an absolute expert in always presenting in the right way. Corporate life in a high profile position will program that into your DNA. I have no doubt she would be a polished peformer in front of and behind camera/people.

However, we just don't want a great "performer", does she have the attributes, courage and skill to actually make change or is she just happy to hold the steering wheel and not ruffle any feathers. Enjoy profile and status but not get her hands dirty.

Is that the presidents job? Her decisions would be regarding the executive.
So if Bains and co are shit.

[Grantysghost]

Are they real? I hope so.

Of course. Love your work.

[bulldogtragic]

Of course. Love your work.

You too big fella. But I think we’ve over played our hands. Now everyone just needs to throw a ChatGPT at us and watch us discuss the merits of the fiction.

[angelopetraglia]

You too big fella. But I think we’ve over played our hands. Now everyone just needs to throw a ChatGPT at us and watch us discuss the merits of the fiction.

Chat GPT is very good. I'm actually really scared how good AI is getting. It is using all the history of anything ever written to compose it its writing, so it is purely fictional but is based on the entire collective knowledge that humans have comitted to paper.

[Grantysghost]

You too big fella. But I think we’ve over played our hands. Now everyone just needs to throw a ChatGPT at us and watch us discuss the merits of the fiction.

Ha. Agree. Now work out how to get us up the draft order.

[Grantysghost]

Chat GPT is very good. I'm actually really scared how good AI is getting. It is using all the history of anything ever written to compose it its writing, so it is purely fictional but is based on the entire collective knowledge that humans have comitted to paper.

Try Bing chat. It's better. Uses Dall-E for images. It's insane.

[angelopetraglia]

Try Bing chat. It's better. Uses Dall-E for images. It's insane.

I have used Bing and also Bard (Google). At this stage I think ChatGPT is in front IMHO. If you prompt it properly, it is scary what it can produce.

[bornadog]

I have used Bing and also Bard (Google). At this stage I think ChatGPT is in front IMHO. If you prompt it properly, it is scary what it can produce.

Isn't it limited to 2021 for information?

[Grantysghost]

I have used Bing and also Bard (Google). At this stage I think ChatGPT is in front IMHO. If you prompt it properly, it is scary what it can produce.

Bing has improved. Let me make an image.

[angelopetraglia]

The prompt:

"The Western Bulldogs sack their coach after nine years which resulted in a Premiership and a Grand Final. He has had a great journey but the results in the last couple of years are not up to standard. Channeling the spirit of the Seinfeld and in particular George Steinbrenner of NY Yankees fame, George Costanza, Jerry Seinfeld write a script of how Luke Beveridge is sacked."


Title: The Sacking of Luke Beveridge - A Seinfeldian Turn of Events

[Jerry's Apartment]

Jerry Seinfeld is sitting on the couch, looking slightly bemused. George Costanza bursts in, clearly agitated.

George: (frustrated) Jerry, you won't believe what's going on with the Bulldogs!

Jerry: (raising an eyebrow) What's got you all worked up now, George?

George: (exasperated) They've only gone and sacked Luke Beveridge, the coach! Nine years, Jerry, nine years! A Premiership, a Grand Final, and they kick him to the curb like yesterday's newspaper.

Jerry: (leaning back) Wow, that's quite a ride. But George, what happened? Did he forget to draw up a play? Did he confuse the goalposts for the team bus?

George: (rolling his eyes) It's not about a play, Jerry. It's about... it's about standards! They're saying the last couple of years just didn't cut it. Can you believe that? They want results, Jerry. Consistent results!

Jerry: (nodding) Ah, the relentless pursuit of victory. I've heard of that, George. I think they even made a movie about it—Rocky something, right?

George: (irritated) Yeah, yeah, Rocky, whatever. But you know who they remind me of? George Steinbrenner, the owner of the Yankees. Always after results, like they're negotiating peace in the Middle East.

Jerry: (chuckling) Oh, George Steinbrenner, the king of unpredictability. That guy changed his mind more often than Elaine changes boyfriends.

George: (pausing) You know, Jerry, maybe I should be the coach. I've got that fiery Costanza spirit. Imagine me in the locker room, giving those players a pep talk!

Jerry: (grinning) Oh, I can imagine it. "Alright, team, listen up. Remember, life is like a box of chocolates—sometimes you get a Premiership, sometimes you get... well, you get the idea."

George: (determined) That's the spirit, Jerry! And if they fire me, I'll just claim it was all part of my 5-year plan. Yeah, a 5-year plan for success!

Jerry: (smirking) Ah, George, you're like the master of disguise. You've turned not having a plan into a plan. It's like a Costanza paradox.

George: (smirking back) Exactly, Jerry. It's a Costanza paradox, a seismic shift in coaching philosophy. Who needs results when you have paradoxes?

Jerry: (laughing) Well, George, I think you might be onto something here. Who knows, maybe paradoxes are the secret to athletic glory.

George: (nodding) You're damn right, Jerry. Paradoxes and maybe a bit of snack food bribing. You know, like the Yankees and their hot dogs.

Jerry: (chuckles) So there you have it, folks. The George Costanza approach to coaching—paradoxes, snack food, and a dash of Steinbrenner unpredictability. Who needs standard results when you've got the Costanza touch?

George: (grinning proudly) That's the ticket, Jerry. That's the ticket.

Jerry and George share a hearty laugh as they contemplate the unpredictable world of sports and the enigmatic ways of coaching.

[End scene]

[Grantysghost]

Bing has improved. Let me make an image.

https://i.postimg.cc/nLCYcQwQ/Screenshot-20230829-185110.png (https://postimg.cc/p9Mnsyv2)

[angelopetraglia]

Isn't it limited to 2021 for information?

ChatGPT is for free users. But you can feed it any information you want. Post information. Then prompt it to include all the above information to write what you want.

[angelopetraglia]

https://postimg.cc/p9Mnsyv2

Yeah. That is awesome. Amazing what it can do. Artistry, things like paintings, writing songs, pictures, scripts they were things I thought were safe from computers. But they are now some of the first things that AI is doing in a way that is very much believable.

If you get Chat GPT to write a song about the Western Bulldogs using the inspiration and voice of Kane West, is that OK? Do you own that or does Kane?

[hujsh]

As I posted earlier, I have no issue with her. I had an issue with a statement clearly not written by her and said so. And it wasn?t written by her and doesn?t need defending because it wasn?t real. It isn?t real! That?s some sort of an attack on her? Or demonstrated predetermined ideas. Calling out a fake statement for being fake?

If you want to bite, I advocate biting the false statement writer. We are going back and forth over something that isn?t real. It isn?t real. It needs no attack of defence. It isn?t real!

If that statement had been released by the club every supporter would be entitled to be at least befuddled by it.

[The bulldog tragician]

Chat GPT is very good. I'm actually really scared how good AI is getting. It is using all the history of anything ever written to compose it its writing, so it is purely fictional but is based on the entire collective knowledge that humans have comitted to paper.

When I first read the fake KWW one you produced, I thought it was flowery and written by a try-hard young comms person on her behalf. I thought it was kind of tone-deaf… but I didn’t doubt it was real.

I work in comms myself and have written speeches, messages, articles for CEOs and leaders. Undoubtedly this technology will make people like me redundant but maybe there will always be something slightly jarring or wrong in the message?

[angelopetraglia]

When I first read the fake KWW one you produced, I thought it was flowery and written by a try-hard young comms person on her behalf. I thought it was kind of tone-deaf… but I didn’t doubt it was real.

I work in comms myself and have written speeches, messages, articles for CEOs and leaders. Undoubtedly this technology will make people like me redundant but maybe there will always be something slightly jarring or wrong in the message?

Agree 100%.

But I intentionally prompted it to ensure people thought it was actual satire. It was OTT.

If I had further prompted it to use different tone, be less verbose, removed the Disney reference, use Australian English, use empathy but remain positive, it would easily pass.

Also, it won't make people like you redundant. Zero chance. People need to know how to use the tool and also things need to be checked and ensure the message is relevant. But it is a tool you can use to help you most probably write better and produce more.

[Grantysghost]

Agree 100%.

But I intentionally prompted it to ensure people thought it was actual satire. It was OTT.

If I had further prompted it to use different tone, be less verbose, removed the Disney reference, use Australian English, use empathy but remain positive, it would easily pass.

Also, it won't make people like you redundant. Zero chance. People need to know how to use the tool and also things need to be checked and ensure the message is relevant. But it is a tool you can use to help you most probably write better and produce more.

For now. Remember it's learning exponentially.

Skynet is coming.

[GVGjr]

Just out of curiosity what would our fans wants to hear Kylie talk about or assure us about at this early stage?

I'm not sure there is a lot she can say until we get a few things sorted. On Sunday night we were still very much alive for finals.
Perhaps an apology for making us all barrack for Carlton on Sunday night would be a good starting point? ;)

[angelopetraglia]

For now. Remember it's learning exponentially.

Skynet is coming.

Yes.

This https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html

and this https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-2.html

Is probably worth a read even though it was written 8 years ago.

[angelopetraglia]

Just out of curiosity what would our fans wants to hear Kylie talk about or assure us about at this early stage?

I'm not sure there is a lot she can say until we get a few things sorted. On Sunday night we were still very much alive for finals.
Perhaps an apology for making us all barrack for Carlton on Sunday night would be a good starting point? ;)

Just acknowledging the members for their loyalty and support would be enough at this stage. Bascially what Bont said but with her overall position as the Chief Commander. The season is over.

[The bulldog tragician]

Agree 100%.

But I intentionally prompted it to ensure people thought it was actual satire. It was OTT.

If I had further prompted it to use different tone, be less verbose, removed the Disney reference, use Australian English, use empathy but remain positive, it would easily pass.

Also, it won't make people like you redundant. Zero chance. People need to know how to use the tool and also things need to be checked and ensure the message is relevant. But it is a tool you can use to help you most probably write better and produce more.
Fascinating. And scary.

A lot of senior people are great speakers, but don’t write well. I like to think it is a bit of an art, to write something for them in a way that reflects their own turns of phrase, or gets to the heart of what they like to talk about. But with there being a lot of sterile corporate speak about, maybe this too will disappear.

Thread derailed!

[hujsh]

Just out of curiosity what would our fans wants to hear Kylie talk about or assure us about at this early stage?

I'm not sure there is a lot she can say until we get a few things sorted. On Sunday night we were still very much alive for finals.
Perhaps an apology for making us all barrack for Carlton on Sunday night would be a good starting point? ;)

The only reason I'd not want to hear something is if hey don't know what to say yet or (unlikely) they have some strategic reason to wait before saying anything such as when a review is over.

I'd want to hear details from the club on:
What the review was last year
What they learned from that failure
What they're reviewing this year and why it's different
What changes they intend to make (maybe for the purpose of making the right hires I can concede there feasibly may be reason to not reveal this yet)
Why we should continue to pay membership fees or give our time to attend matches when the playing group can't beat the worst team in a decade to make finals

or really anything that might sate my bloodlust (joking...kinda)

[angelopetraglia]

For now. Remember it's learning exponentially.

Skynet is coming.

That is probably the key point. Human brains are very, very good at making assumptions based on linerar growth. But we are horrible at understanding exponetial outcomes. Our brains just can't process that level of complexity.

If you could theoritcally fold a piece of paper 42 times (yes, it practically impossible) it would reach the moon. We can't process exponetial outcomes, yet AI is indeed going to grow exponetially. Who knows where we end up.

[angelopetraglia]

Fascinating. And scary.

A lot of senior people are great speakers, but don’t write well. I like to think it is a bit of an art, to write something for them in a way that reflects their own turns of phrase, or gets to the heart of what they like to talk about. But with there being a lot of sterile corporate speak about, maybe this too will disappear.

Thread derailed!

The way you can use it to use someone else's voice is also scary. Write with the prose of Barrack Obama or Donald Trump or Martin Luther King. Or choose a more reasonable famous business author. Write with the voice of Jim Collins or Peter Drucker.

Even putting your own words into ChatGPT and then ask it to expand it or minimise it or write like a 10 year old can undertand or write so it has the tone of an overpaid McKinsey Consulatant.

[Jasper]

Please. Read it. It ain't real.

Unreal that anyone thought she would write that.

[Jasper]

What were the predetermined ideas about calling out a clearly false statement? Did you support the made up statement even thought she never made it? That would be cult like.

It goes to prove that people will defend whatever the club says or does even if they didnt say it or do anything.
You can still be critical of the club on occasion and it doesnt make you a bad supporter.

[Grantysghost]

Unreal that anyone thought she would write that.

I did for a second Jasper! Need sleep. Sad part is I've used AI frequently...!

[Grantysghost]

It goes to prove that people will defend whatever the club says or does even if they didnt say it or do anything.
You can still be critical of the club on occasion and it doesnt make you a bad supporter.

I think people is me.

Can assure you that's not my way. I do however believe KWW is unfairly targeted. As I said in an earlier post I think she needs to send a message on behalf of the club.

[Hotdog60]

I've used Google Bard to write my resignation letter for when I retire and I was happy with the job it done.
The only thing is I will have to dumb it down a bit because it made me sound smart. :)

[ledge]

This has turned into a computer nerds thread about writing speeches.
Can we change the original name from sharp axes to computer nerds read here ?
:-)

[G-Mo77]

This has turned into a computer nerds thread about writing speeches.
Can we change the original name from sharp axes to computer nerds read here ?
:-)

Well the axe is blunt as a butter knife, it's a moot thread now.

[Jasper]

I think people is me.

Can assure you that's not my way. I do however believe KWW is unfairly targeted. As I said in an earlier post I think she needs to send a message on behalf of the club.

It shouldnt read that way so my error.
I do sense that we have supporters that defend the clubs every decision no matter what but you dont strike me as being like that.

[Grantysghost]

It shouldnt read that way so my error.
I do sense that we have supporters that defend the clubs every decision no matter what but you dont strike me as being like that.

Ha all good I was ok with it J to the asper. Your point is valid. We need to think critically.
When do we think is too late for a message from the Pres/club?
I would hope it's this week.

[bulldogtragic]

Ha all good I was ok with it J to the asper. Your point is valid. We need to think critically.
When do we think is too late for a message from the Pres/club?
I would hope it's this week.

I think it should’ve been by now. So I’m thinking that maybe the message isn’t settled yet. That I could understand, but then the mind wonders… what is going on such the message isn’t settled yet?

[bornadog]

It shouldnt read that way so my error.
I do sense that we have supporters that defend the clubs every decision no matter what but you dont strike me as being like that.

I didn't really read, just skimped as I thought it was strange, however, I saw the signature and did believe it. However I still maintain we shouldn't be publishing a false letter from the President on the internet and GVGjr should investigate whether any law is broken and delete.

[bulldogtragic]

I didn't really read, just skimped as I thought it was strange, however, I saw the signature and did believe it. However I still maintain we shouldn't be publishing a false letter from the President on the internet and GVGjr should investigate whether any law is broken and delete.

I’ve investigated it. There’s no law broken whatsoever. Free of charge.

[1eyedog]

https://i.postimg.cc/nLCYcQwQ/Screenshot-20230829-185110.png (https://postimg.cc/p9Mnsyv2)

Suprised Gary hasn't torn down the site after seeing this.

[bornadog]

I’ve investigated it. There’s no law broken whatsoever. Free of charge.

So anyone can write a letter, put someone else's name on it and all good

[Grantysghost]

Suprised Gary hasn't torn down the site after seeing this.

The dog eyes make it exceptionally disturbing.

[bulldogtragic]

So anyone can write a letter, put someone else's name on it and all good

In this context, yes. Do you really want me to spend 30 minutes detailing how this isn’t criminal in this context?

You might think it’s wrong or in poor taste. I’m not debating that. But it’s certainly not criminal activity. To save me the time, ring police headquarters who get paid to explain this. Report this alleged crime to them and they will explain how this might be a lot of things, but not criminal. I understand you don’t like it, and I didn’t want to spend 30 mins back and forth with GG on it yesterday. But AP and this site has not committed any criminal offence.

[bornadog]

In this context, yes. Do you really want me to spend 30 minutes detailing how this isn’t criminal in this context?

You might think it’s wrong or in poor taste. I’m not debating that. But it’s certainly not criminal activity. To save me the time, ring police headquarters who get paid to explain this. Report this possible crime to them and they will explain how this might be a lot of things, but not criminal. I understand you don’t like it, and I didn’t want to spend 30 mins back and forth with GG on it yesterday. But AP and this site has not committed any criminal offence.

Just asking a simple question as I am surprised. That is all.

[angelopetraglia]

In this context, yes. Do you really want me to spend 30 minutes detailing how this isn?t criminal in this context?

You might think it?s wrong or in poor taste. I?m not debating that. But it?s certainly not criminal activity. To save me the time, ring police headquarters who get paid to explain this. Report this alleged crime to them and they will explain how this might be a lot of things, but not criminal. I understand you don?t like it, and I didn?t want to spend 30 mins back and forth with GG on it yesterday. But AP and this site has not committed any criminal offence.

Also. Can I importantly state. It was never intended to be passed off as legitmate. It was satire from the beginning. As soon as there was anyone actually remotely believing it was legitmate. I clarified that in a heartbeat. Literally within in minutes. There was an entire lead up of posts that we had not heard from KWW. Then this fake email is immediately posted. I thought it was clear that it wasn't legimate from the way it was written. A good re-read will show that it is clearly tongue in cheek.

Intent is important. It was clearly just a joke. There was never any intent to pass it off as something that KWW actually wrote.

[bulldogtragic]

Also. Can I importantly state. It was never intended to be passed off as legitmate. It was satire from the beginning. As soon as there was anyone actually remotely believing it was legitmate. I clarified that in a heartbeat. Literally within in minutes. There was an entire lead up of posts that we had not heard from KWW. Then this fake email is immediately posted. I htought it was clear that it wasn't legimate from the way it was written. A good re-read will show that it is clearly tongue in cheek.

Intent is important. It was clearly just a joke. There was never any intent to pass it off as something that KWW actually wrote.

Relax. It’s just a post on the internet that has not harmed anyone. You wound us all up for a little while, but that’s the extent of it. We move on and await KWW to say something at some point.

[bornadog]

Also. Can I importantly state. It was never intended to be passed off as legitmate. It was satire from the beginning. As soon as there was anyone actually remotely believing it was legitmate. I clarified that in a heartbeat. Literally within in minutes. There was an entire lead up of posts that we had not heard from KWW. Then this fake email is immediately posted. I thought it was clear that it wasn't legimate from the way it was written. A good re-read will show that it is clearly tongue in cheek.

Intent is important. It was clearly just a joke. There was never any intent to pass it off as something that KWW actually wrote.

It was a fun letter and great discussion and yes I would like to hear from the real KWW.

My questions were looking at the bigger picture. Sounds like anyone can send a fake email/letter and sign some one else's name, which surprised me.

[mjp]

Intent is important. It was clearly just a joke. There was never any intent to pass it off as something that KWW actually wrote.

Just in support of AP - I thought it was a joke from the start and I thought (even before the edit) he made it pretty clear it was NOT written by the Pres.

I do think this thread has gone completely off the rails and I think we have lost 80+ pages of great content/thoughtful discussion due to one AI generated 'letter to members' and that annoys me as I have no idea how to get it back on track.

Can we reset this now? AP has apologised to all who didn't realise it was intended to be a joke and reiterated on countless occasions he meant no disrespect. So...can we go back to the footy club?? I liked this thread and everytime there was a new post I would click it...right now - not so much.

Please?

[angelopetraglia]

It was a fun letter and great discussion and yes I would like to hear from the real KWW.

My questions were looking at the bigger picture. Sounds like anyone can send a fake email/letter and sign some one else's name, which surprised me.

In this instance. Original post 5:42pm. As soon as someone even questioned if it was legitmate, I corrected them at 5:49pm.

However, yes with tools like ChatGPT people can imiate public figures very quickly. The next level which is even scarier is that tools are getting so good that you can now do something similar with photos and also video. We will soon not be able to tell the difference between was is fake and what is legitmate.

It is a genuine issue for society moving foward.

[bulldogtragic]

It was a fun letter and great discussion and yes I would like to hear from the real KWW.

My questions were looking at the bigger picture. Sounds like anyone can send a fake email/letter and sign some one else's name, which surprised me.

It’s a matter of context and intent. There are plenty of free legal resources on the internet if you are interested in this space. I think it will get more interesting as AI deep fakes start to get used in more nefarious ways. It’s worth reading up on the law in this space if you have an interest in it.

[angelopetraglia]

Just in support of AP - I thought it was a joke from the start and I thought (even before the edit) he made it pretty clear it was NOT written by the Pres.

I do think this thread has gone completely off the rails and I think we have lost 80+ pages of great content/thoughtful discussion due to one AI generated 'letter to members' and that annoys me as I have no idea how to get it back on track.

Can we reset this now? AP has apologised to all who didn't realise it was intended to be a joke and reiterated on countless occasions he meant no disrespect. So...can we go back to the footy club?? I liked this thread and everytime there was a new post I would click it...right now - not so much.

Please?

Thank you and agree. Let's move on.

[Grantysghost]

I'll try.

Spangher.

Didn't come in without a lot of experience, for mine I thought he'd be the first to go but I have to say the forward line has been pretty solid.

I'm now firmly in the keep camp, maybe with some support around goal kicking?

What do woofers think?

[bulldogtragic]

I'll try.

Spangher.

Didn't come in without a lot of experience, for mine I thought he'd be the first to go but I have to say the forward line has been pretty solid.

I'm now firmly in the keep camp, maybe with some support around goal kicking?

What do woofers think?

Wouldn’t mind a crack at Jack Riewoldt.

[bornadog]

Thank you and agree. Let's move on.


Agree and on that note: Do we think KWW will send a memo, or video to members?

What does the club need to do to ensure we don't lose the record membership numbers? Lots of pissed off people out there.

I want to hear about a proper review, and it should be an independent review of the footy department, structure, lines of reporting, responsibilities and how we go the next step next year.

[The bulldog tragician]

Agree and on that note: Do we think KWW will send a memo, or video to members?

What does the club need to do to ensure we don't lose the record membership numbers? Lots of pissed off people out there.

I want to hear about a proper review, and it should be an independent review of the footy department, structure, lines of reporting, responsibilities and how we go the next step next year.

I agree, but Ahmet has also stated it will be done by the club, which is very disappointing.

[JanLorMill]

I'll get the grinder to sharpen that axe

[bulldogtragic]

I agree, but Ahmet has also stated it will be done by the club, which is very disappointing.

I agree. This is a great opportunity to find every 1%+ improvement in every part of the club. Why we wouldn’t want to that is really strange. It could be the reflection point we look back on and say ‘that external report and our implementation of it was the catalyst for a period of sustained success’.

I just don’t get why we want to self assess ourselves again and have the subconscious bias get in the way of a truly honest perspective about getting better to have the success we all want.

It’s a really poor decision.

[Grantysghost]

Wouldn’t mind a crack at Jack Riewoldt.

That's a very good idea. One of the best of the modern era.

[azabob]

Also. Can I importantly state. It was never intended to be passed off as legitmate. It was satire from the beginning. As soon as there was anyone actually remotely believing it was legitmate. I clarified that in a heartbeat. Literally within in minutes. There was an entire lead up of posts that we had not heard from KWW. Then this fake email is immediately posted. I thought it was clear that it wasn't legimate from the way it was written. A good re-read will show that it is clearly tongue in cheek.

Intent is important. It was clearly just a joke. There was never any intent to pass it off as something that KWW actually wrote.

The problem is AP, some woof posters are under the impression articles that have the "subtle link" to them and then copied and pasted in full are written by the person who posted it.

[azabob]

I'll try.

Spangher.

Didn't come in without a lot of experience, for mine I thought he'd be the first to go but I have to say the forward line has been pretty solid.

I'm now firmly in the keep camp, maybe with some support around goal kicking?

What do woofers think?

A mate of mine said Spangher into a development role.

[The bulldog tragician]

I agree. This is a great opportunity to find every 1%+ improvement in every part of the club. Why we wouldn’t want to that is really strange. It could be the reflection point we look back on and say ‘that external report and our implementation of it was the catalyst for a period of sustained success’.

I just don’t get why we want to self assess ourselves again and have the subconscious bias get in the way of a truly honest perspective about getting better to have the success we all want.

It’s a really poor decision.

What if, hypothetically, Bains is part of the problem? Is mean with valuable resources ? Interferes unnecessarily? Is rude and unapproachable? I’m making all this up, obviously, but genuine reviews look at every part of the equation. Also it’s pretty hard to review colleagues that are friends. Within a very weird kind of workplace too, subject to 55000+ opinions, emotions, and the views of Kane Cornes. I just think we need something fresh and more open.

[Grantysghost]

A mate of mine said Spangher into a development role.

Interesting. So logically implies we are looking for a new forwards coach.

[azabob]

Agree and on that note: Do we think KWW will send a memo, or video to members?

What does the club need to do to ensure we don't lose the record membership numbers? Lots of pissed off people out there.

I want to hear about a proper review, and it should be an independent review of the footy department, structure, lines of reporting, responsibilities and how we go the next step next year.

I get the feeling the club is not going to have an independent review. They started an internal review mid this season and by the sounds of it is starting to conclude.

Interestingly;
2021 post season: No review of the 2021 Grand Final - massive black mark
2022 end of season: Half baked internal review only in 2022 with no feedback to the members - massive black mark
2023 mid season: Internal review and TBC if any outcomes etc will be advised to the members - TBC

[azabob]

What if, hypothetically, Bains is part of the problem? Is mean with valuable resources ? Interferes unnecessarily? Is rude and unapproachable? I?m making all this up, obviously, but genuine reviews look at every part of the equation. Also it?s pretty hard to review colleagues that are friends. Within a very weird kind of workplace too, subject to 55000+ opinions, emotions, and the views of Kane Cornes. I just think we need something fresh and more open.

Bains is the CEO. Off field is humming along nicely. The questions you are asking maybe you could've attached Grants name to it?

[Sedat]

I think people is me.

Can assure you that's not my way. I do however believe KWW is unfairly targeted. As I said in an earlier post I think she needs to send a message on behalf of the club.
She had more media profile in 2 weeks when she was on the short-list for the AFEL CEO role than she's had for her entire tenure as Bulldogs president. Nobody is expecting Jeff Kennett weekly windbag stuff but there is a balance.

IMO the inexplicably poor on-field performances against bottom 3 teams Hawthorn and West Coast necessitated a response from higher up the chain. That moment has passed now.

[angelopetraglia]

Essendon President did this wide ranging interview this morning with SEN. Has KWW ever done anything like this?

WATCH | Essendon president David Barham fronted up this morning to answer the tough questions about the club, Adrian Dodoro, Josh Mahoney and more from club great Tim Watson and Garry Lyon.

https://twitter.com/1116sen/status/1696654714304372854?s=20

[ledge]

Essendon President did this wide ranging interview this morning with SEN. Has KWW ever done anything like this?

WATCH | Essendon president David Barham fronted up this morning to answer the tough questions about the club, Adrian Dodoro, Josh Mahoney and more from club great Tim Watson and Garry Lyon.

https://twitter.com/1116sen/status/1696654714304372854?s=20
He answered nothing , waffle and no commitment to anything, put it all on two others to fix it .
Definitely a business management man , pass the buck and avoid any backlash.

[angelopetraglia]

He answered nothing , waffle and no commitment to anything, put it all on two others to fix it .
Definitely a business management man , pass the buck and avoid any backlash.

Agree. But at least he puts himself out there so their fans can judge for themselves his ability and importantly his views on many matters. That is important.

I simply don't have enough information to judge KWWs ability or don't know any of her views. It would be nice to hear from her in an interview like this, not just in a pre-reheased script released from the club.

[The bulldog tragician]

Bains is the CEO. Off field is humming along nicely. The questions you are asking maybe you could've attached Grants name to it?

I think we’ve all worked in workplaces where the CEO sets the tone, and I guess I imagine that Grant reports to him? The traits I’ve made up in my hypothetical could have an impact across every department. Plus, as has been mentioned, as an insider he might not ask the left field questions or challenge the accepted narrative. I really think it would have thrown up new information and insights, to have someone else investigate especially as last years internal review didn’t lead to observable change.

[angelopetraglia]

I think we’ve all worked in workplaces where the CEO sets the tone, and I guess I imagine that Grant reports to him? The traits I’ve made up in my hypothetical could have an impact across every department. Plus, as has been mentioned, as an insider he might not ask the left field questions or challenge the accepted narrative. I really think it would have thrown up new information and insights, to have someone else investigate especially as last years internal review didn’t lead to observable change.

In the scheme of the things, football clubs are tiny. In both the amount of staff and also their turnover. The CEOs job is not just off field stuff. He is responsbile for the entire operation. His job is to be across a lof of detail including football matters. Not micromanage, but he needs to be across it and importantly be happy with all the key people appointments and their ongoing ability to do the job. He also needs to be setting the overall strategy for the entire club, including the football departmet. Those are some important lements of the CEO job.

[SonofScray]

Selling my axe, unused.

Bitterly disappointed in the Club that the coach will survive this. It’s a poor decision culturally and whatever discomfort there is around it we are avoiding will haunt us.

That’s it for a while from me on this topic and probably on footy as a whole until I make up my mind if I actually give a shit anymore or not. This year has been the most frustrating, joyless season I’ve ever experienced. Not going to just idly wade through it again when there’s no real vision, no real drive to improve, and what I now perceive as a culture of dishonesty in the footy department. Co-opting a language of support and loyalty but it really putting values in action.

[Sedat]

Agree. But at least he puts himself out there so there fans can judge for themselves his ability and importantly his views on many matters. That is important.

I simply don't have enough information to judge KWWs ability or don't know any of her views. It would be nice to hear from her in an interview like this, not just in a pre-rehearsed script released from the club.
And you won't. She is a corporate careerist with an enormous global entertainment behemoth who most likely has no interest in the minutiae of a club environment, nor any interest in having her profile exposed with strong opinions and perspectives on said club. The secret to her success at a company like Disney is to be as quietly efficient, whilst remaining as vanilla and unobtrusive as possible (aka small target strategy), which is absolutely essential in order to climb the ranks in the global corporate world (which she has done very successfully) - it has served her career well and will continue to do so.

The Bulldogs presidency is nothing more that a notch on her CV that has raised her personal profile/brand into different demographics, and will assist her in eventually landing positions on several high-profile executive boards (whilst allowing her to remain at Disney). No wonder Richard Goyder was such a fan.

Her meal ticket is the biggest entertainment company on earth - she will (quite rightly) always prioritize and direct her energy for Disney over our club. That's why she has been (and I suspect will continue to be) completely and utterly invisible during her tenure as club president. The contrast between KW-W and a Sonja Hood couldn't be more stark. Both are notionally invested in their club but Sonja is publicly bringing the fans along for the journey at North, without being an overbearing media presence. Good club presidents do this and do it well.

[mjp]

This year has been the most frustrating, joyless season I’ve ever experienced.

Hey - I guess I only have one counter to that: "There's no disappointment without expectation" and the reason we all feel so crap is that the group that takes the park each weekend DOES have talent.

Whilst I'm not scared of a coaching change I'm not 100% convinced that a coaching change is totally necessary. Why? Well...I did my first level 3 coaching course (I've done it twice and the course sucks now - it used to be amazing!) with one of the more highly regarded current candidates and all talk about his tactical genius is gloriously (and OFTEN) over-stated. There are no guarantees in the 'next' pile and until Bont tells me the players are done with the coach then I am 50-50 on replacing him.

This year has sucked - totally agree. But there is hope for the future and after 40-years supporting RWB I'm not giving up now.

[Vred]

I'll try.

Spangher.

Didn't come in without a lot of experience, for mine I thought he'd be the first to go but I have to say the forward line has been pretty solid.

I'm now firmly in the keep camp, maybe with some support around goal kicking?

What do woofers think?

We'll be keeping him although it sounds like he'll be shifted to development

[bornadog]

Agree. But at least he puts himself out there so their fans can judge for themselves his ability and importantly his views on many matters. That is important.

I simply don't have enough information to judge KWWs ability or don't know any of her views. It would be nice to hear from her in an interview like this, not just in a pre-reheased script released from the club.

This gives you an insight into KWW

https://omny.fm/shows/dannyboydbulldogs/kylie-watson-wheeler-hail-to-the-chief

[angelopetraglia]

This gives you an insight into KWW

https://omny.fm/shows/dannyboydbulldogs/kylie-watson-wheeler-hail-to-the-chief

Thank you. Appreciated. I will listen to that.

[1eyedog]

We'll be keeping him although it sounds like he'll be shifted to development

Going off what I saw at Skinner Reserve earlier this season the players really like him.

[1eyedog]

Just got a letter from the Prez.

Chatgpt?

[bornadog]

Just got a letter from the Prez.

Chatgpt?

Same

[bornadog]

Well it won't be an independent review:


During the season, we identified a need to analyse areas of our football program which we felt needed adjustments, to give our players the best chance to succeed. It means that there will be change in the off season. Our Board member Luke Darcy, Executive Director of Football Chris Grant, along with Ameet Bains and myself, will lead the difficult, but necessary changes.

[Rocket Science]

i'll try.

Spangher.

Didn't come in without a lot of experience, for mine i thought he'd be the first to go but i have to say the forward line has been pretty solid.

I'm now firmly in the keep camp, maybe with some support around goal kicking?

What do woofers think?

U wot m8?

[bulldogtragic]

The team that brought you season 2023 and the early signing of Bevo will do hard job of looking at ourselves.

What a chance missed. An external review wouldve shut virtually everyone up for ages and given the club valuable independent insight to improve the chance of the success we all want.

[Vred]

Piss weak letter from a club that doesn't have the balls to get some external eyes to look in on it, they know they screwed up they just don't want it to be found out.

Truly pathetic.

[Hot_Doggies]

It’s a simple fix. Draft at least 5 kids per year and as many 1st rounders as possible.

One of Bevo’s strengths early on was playing random kids when they deserved a chance. The JUH/Darcy draft plus topping up with mature age low ceiling prospects has stopped that.

[azabob]

Well it won't be an independent review:

Blind Freddy could see that was the case!!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'm not particularly bothered that it's an internal review.

The thing is though, they now own what comes next and will ultimately be accountable for their decisions.

I take it as a sign the leadership of the club is confident of having the tools, honesty and professional ability to carry out this type of strategic piece of work.

[bornadog]

Blind Freddy could see that was the case!!

Despite what some think of KWW, with her involvement and corporate experience , I am confident she will ensure a proper review is completed. Her reputation as well as the clubs is at stake.

[Sedat]

The team that brought you season 2023 and the early signing of Bevo will do hard job of looking at ourselves.

What a chance missed. An external review wouldve shut virtually everyone up for ages and given the club valuable independent insight to improve the chance of the success we all want.
Wow. I actually thought there would be a proper look under the hood across all footy dept operations after the most disastrous 2 weeks against Hawthorn and West Coast during Bevo's entire tenure, not to mention the fact that since 2018 we have carefully and methodically rebuild the list with publicly declared expectations to contend for a number of years as a top 4 team from 2021 onwards.

And having failed by a big margin to achieve our own publicly declared internal expectations for 2 years now, our response is for the same people running the organisation who already conducted a supposedly thorough review 12 months earlier to essentially do the same now?

We are not a serious club.

[Sedat]

I'm not particularly bothered that it's an internal review.

The thing is though, they now own what comes next and will ultimately be accountable for their decisions.

I take it as a sign the leadership of the club is confident of having the tools, honesty and professional ability to carry out this type of strategic piece of work.
Don't they already own the internal review they conducted 12 months ago and the subsequent failure to improve this season and achieve our own stated objectives and expectations?

Failure really is an orphan and success has many fathers.

[Grantysghost]

U wot m8?

Now I'm unsure.

Solid is right yeah? Not outstanding, not terrible.

In fact we were 9th. So yeah solid ;)

[bulldogtragic]

Wow. I actually thought there would be a proper look under the hood across all footy dept operations after the most disastrous 2 weeks against Hawthorn and West Coast during Bevo's entire tenure, not to mention the fact that since 2018 we have carefully and methodically rebuild the list with publicly declared expectations to contend for a number of years as a top 4 team from 2021 onwards.

And having failed by a big margin to achieve our own publicly declared internal expectations for 2 years now, our response is for the same people running the organisation who already conducted a supposedly thorough review 12 months earlier to essentially do the same now?

We are not a serious club.

Even at the generous side, subconscious bias can stop us from seeing things. That’s why there’s Ombudsman’s, Inspector Generals, IBAC/ICAC’s to review things. Because sometimes you just can’t see what you’re surrounded by with everyday, and for positive change you need a dispassionate and independent analysis. Why would we not want that? Why would a club in a highly competitive environment not want to find every advantage and improvement possible? What is the harm of an independent review? Don’t members deserve to know that the club has taken this so seriously that it’s doing what many others clubs have done with success? I don’t get it. But it is what it is at this point.

[Sedat]

Even at the generous side, subconscious bias can stop us from seeing things. That’s why there’s Ombudsman’s, Inspector Generals, IBAC/ICAC’s to review things. Because sometimes you just can’t see what you’re surrounded by with everyday, and for positive change you need a dispassionate and independent analysis. Why would we not want that? Why would a club in a highly competitive environment not want to find every advantage and improvement possible? What is the harm of an independent review? Don’t members deserve to know that the club has taken this so seriously that it’s doing what many others clubs have done with success? I don’t get it. But it is what it is at this point.
It's virtually an admission that the 'thorough' internal review conducted 12 months earlier (by the same people no less) was little more than a press release and that we are really, actually, honestly doing an internal review this time, we promise.

It must be serious this time because the members even got a letter from the president.

[Grantysghost]

It's virtually an admission that the 'thorough' internal review conducted 12 months earlier (by the same people no less) was little more than a press release and that we are really, actually, honestly doing an internal review this time, we promise.

It must be serious this time because the members even got a letter from the president.

This one? :

To our Bulldogs members,

As the dust settles on our 2023 AFL season, there’s no question we all have a sense of shared disappointment. You, our members, are incredibly passionate and rightly hold us to account. We don’t take this responsibility lightly.

We all expected to qualify for our fifth straight AFL finals series, and for a long period of the season, it looked like we would achieve that. The footy Gods delivered for us on Saturday when our team broke the 20-year drought with a win in Geelong, but as Sunday came around, it wasn’t to be.

It was a disappointing end to a season that held so much potential, and we take responsibility for the result.

As we look back on our year, ultimately it was inconsistency and missed opportunities that took their toll.

We know this is a game of small margins, and in the end we didn’t take enough of those chances when they presented themselves, despite putting ourselves in strong positions to win several close games.

The reality is, we didn’t meet our own expectations, or those of our members and fans.

However, despite the obvious disappointment, we saw some promising signs for our future.

Marcus Bontempelli led us with absolute distinction, Tim English emerged as the competition’s best ruckman, Tom Liberatore went to an even higher level, and Jamarra Ugle-Hagan announced himself as a future star.

Arthur Jones, James O’Donnell and Caleb Poulter made telling cameos as first year players, Liam Jones returned as a defensive rock, and we have the untapped ability of Sam Darcy to look forward to.

So, where to from here?

In this business, there’s no time to dwell on the past, or sit still. We must move on quickly, evaluate comprehensively, and put robust plans in place to improve.

Identifying improvements and making the necessary changes is key to our future success. That process started as the season was still running, and we ramped up the day after our season concluded.

During the season, we identified a need to analyse areas of our football program which we felt needed adjustments, to give our players the best chance to succeed. It means that there will be change in the off season. Our Board member Luke Darcy, Executive Director of Football Chris Grant, along with Ameet Bains and myself, will lead the difficult, but necessary changes.

There has been plenty of external talk about Luke Beveridge recently. As we’ve said publicly on numerous occasions, Bevo is contracted for the next two seasons, and we remain confident in his ability to lead this team. He has a strong track record of getting the best out of our playing group, managing a high performing team, and achieving success.

We have a deeply connected playing group - connected to both each other and their coach. I have the privilege of witnessing this personally.

The team has high expectations of themselves, and we are encouraged by their desire to lean in and provide feedback on how we need to improve. Sharing the responsibility of our performances with each other, the coaching group and the broader club. We are emboldened by their desire to turn our performance around quickly.

With the strength of leadership we have within our club, and the detailed understanding of our people and processes, we are confident we can make the adjustments that we require.

Bulldogs people are resilient, and we stick together in good times and bad. We’ve been doing so for over 140 years.

As we look ahead, we turn our attention to our VFL and AFLW teams.

Our VFL team won 10 straight games on its way to qualifying in sixth position on the ladder – a brilliant achievement. Footscray will take on the Casey Demons this Saturday, with 18 Bulldogs-listed players eligible to take the field.

A few hours later, our AFLW team kicks off its 2023 season against Geelong at GMHBA Stadium. After having tasted finals action in Season 7, we’re excited to see what our girls can achieve in the next few months.

In the second half of the women’s season, we look forward to welcoming you back to watch footy at VU Whitten Oval, which will be an exciting milestone for our club.

When our AFL players return to start their preparations for the 2024 season, they’ll come back to a transformed facility which will be the envy of the competition.

It will be a symbolic and energising new beginning for players and staff, as we start our climb back up the ladder.

As the AFL season ends, on behalf of the Club I’d like to thank our record 56,000 members for your ongoing support. You turned up to Marvel Stadium and Mars Stadium in massive numbers.

No-one at the Club, including the players, take your support for granted.

Thank you for being Bulldogs.

[Bullies]

It?s a simple fix. Draft at least 5 kids per year and as many 1st rounders as possible.

One of Bevo?s strengths early on was playing random kids when they deserved a chance. The JUH/Darcy draft plus topping up with mature age low ceiling prospects has stopped that. We could have the first 10 picks in next years draft the way the media are pushing that we will lose Smith, English and Naughton.

Would like to know how Geelong escape all the scrutiny. They won the flag last year and finished below us and have a list full of super rules players. Crickets.

[bornadog]

We could have the first 10 picks in next years draft the way the media are pushing that we will lose Smith, English and Naughton.

Would like to know how Geelong escape all the scrutiny. They won the flag last year and finished below us and have a list full of super rules players. Crickets.

Freo missed finals after making it last year and Sydney dropped out of top 4 - again crickets.

[Danjul]

Now I'm unsure.

Solid is right yeah? Not outstanding, not terrible.

In fact we were 9th. So yeah solid ;)
depends on the time frame.

The last half of the season was not solid.

It was a disgrace.

[Grantysghost]

depends on the time frame.

The last half of the season was not solid.

It was a disgrace.

If we are talking goal kicking from set shots agree.

I think our problem was d50 and mid transition / delivery into the forwards not the machinations of the forward line itself.

[azabob]

Why would Melbourne media talk about interstate clubs?

Personally I am glad the media is putting the heat on the club.

Finishing 9th in the manner we did is not acceptable.

[Sedat]

This one? :

To our Bulldogs members,

As the dust settles on our 2023 AFL season, there’s no question we all have a sense of shared disappointment. You, our members, are incredibly passionate and rightly hold us to account. We don’t take this responsibility lightly.

We all expected to qualify for our fifth straight AFL finals series, and for a long period of the season, it looked like we would achieve that. The footy Gods delivered for us on Saturday when our team broke the 20-year drought with a win in Geelong, but as Sunday came around, it wasn’t to be.

It was a disappointing end to a season that held so much potential, and we take responsibility for the result.

As we look back on our year, ultimately it was inconsistency and missed opportunities that took their toll.

We know this is a game of small margins, and in the end we didn’t take enough of those chances when they presented themselves, despite putting ourselves in strong positions to win several close games.

The reality is, we didn’t meet our own expectations, or those of our members and fans.

However, despite the obvious disappointment, we saw some promising signs for our future.

Marcus Bontempelli led us with absolute distinction, Tim English emerged as the competition’s best ruckman, Tom Liberatore went to an even higher level, and Jamarra Ugle-Hagan announced himself as a future star.

Arthur Jones, James O’Donnell and Caleb Poulter made telling cameos as first year players, Liam Jones returned as a defensive rock, and we have the untapped ability of Sam Darcy to look forward to.

So, where to from here?

In this business, there’s no time to dwell on the past, or sit still. We must move on quickly, evaluate comprehensively, and put robust plans in place to improve.

Identifying improvements and making the necessary changes is key to our future success. That process started as the season was still running, and we ramped up the day after our season concluded.

During the season, we identified a need to analyse areas of our football program which we felt needed adjustments, to give our players the best chance to succeed. It means that there will be change in the off season. Our Board member Luke Darcy, Executive Director of Football Chris Grant, along with Ameet Bains and myself, will lead the difficult, but necessary changes.

There has been plenty of external talk about Luke Beveridge recently. As we’ve said publicly on numerous occasions, Bevo is contracted for the next two seasons, and we remain confident in his ability to lead this team. He has a strong track record of getting the best out of our playing group, managing a high performing team, and achieving success.

We have a deeply connected playing group - connected to both each other and their coach. I have the privilege of witnessing this personally.

The team has high expectations of themselves, and we are encouraged by their desire to lean in and provide feedback on how we need to improve. Sharing the responsibility of our performances with each other, the coaching group and the broader club. We are emboldened by their desire to turn our performance around quickly.

With the strength of leadership we have within our club, and the detailed understanding of our people and processes, we are confident we can make the adjustments that we require.

Bulldogs people are resilient, and we stick together in good times and bad. We’ve been doing so for over 140 years.

As we look ahead, we turn our attention to our VFL and AFLW teams.

Our VFL team won 10 straight games on its way to qualifying in sixth position on the ladder – a brilliant achievement. Footscray will take on the Casey Demons this Saturday, with 18 Bulldogs-listed players eligible to take the field.

A few hours later, our AFLW team kicks off its 2023 season against Geelong at GMHBA Stadium. After having tasted finals action in Season 7, we’re excited to see what our girls can achieve in the next few months.

In the second half of the women’s season, we look forward to welcoming you back to watch footy at VU Whitten Oval, which will be an exciting milestone for our club.

When our AFL players return to start their preparations for the 2024 season, they’ll come back to a transformed facility which will be the envy of the competition.

It will be a symbolic and energising new beginning for players and staff, as we start our climb back up the ladder.

As the AFL season ends, on behalf of the Club I’d like to thank our record 56,000 members for your ongoing support. You turned up to Marvel Stadium and Mars Stadium in massive numbers.

No-one at the Club, including the players, take your support for granted.

Thank you for being Bulldogs.
The bolded bits are concerning and reinforce that we did not actually conduct any serious internal review of note 12 months ago despite telling the footy world we did.

1. "We all expected to qualify for our fifth straight AFL finals series" - umm, no actually. The club's own publicly stated expectations have been to be a top 4 team contending for silverware since 2021.
2. "Identifying improvements and making the necessary changes" was sold as being done last year - this is gibberish.
3. "During the season, we identified a need to analyse areas of our football program which we felt needed adjustments" see point 2. Again, gibberish. We already supposedly went through this exact same internal process 12 months ago.

It's a slick enough letter in isolation (if a little Dunkley tortilla bland), but it is actually low-key quite disrespectful towards the members and fans who were given the same message 12 months earlier. The footy community aren't village idiots - we all know what we were sold 12 months earlier, as do the meedya. Does the club actually have the arrogance to believe that members and fans have all forgotten the "thorough internal review" from 12 months ago, and that it will all be different this time (even though the same people are reviewing the failure of the previous review to achieve the expectations that were set by the same people, and now those expectations have suddenly been watered down from top 4 to making finals by the same people)?

Would this letter even have seen the light of day if GWS lost on Sunday and we fell into finals?

[Rocket Science]

If we are talking goal kicking from set shots agree.

I think our problem was d50 and mid transition / delivery into the forwards not the machinations of the forward line itself.

I feel like we're spoiled for choice but if asked to settle on just one way the forward line served us poorly it'd be their prodigious knack for allowing entries to swiftly boomerang straight out of there to the extent opponents often seemed unfussed conceding those entries with the confidence that if we didn't convert - and lets resist that rabbit hole for now - they'd get the ball back fairly promptly anyway, usually heading in the opposite direction with pace on it with our high press stuck in quicksand.

Granted a yuge part of it's personnel but until we clone a couple of bona fide pressure forwards in the lab I guess 3rd rate midfielders it is.

[josie]

I’ve just sent an email to the club in response to Kylie’s letter, asking why it’s not an external review given the internal review last year did not prove to be sufficient.

[Dogs 24/7]

Hey - I guess I only have one counter to that: "There's no disappointment without expectation" and the reason we all feel so crap is that the group that takes the park each weekend DOES have talent.

Whilst I'm not scared of a coaching change I'm not 100% convinced that a coaching change is totally necessary. Why? Well...I did my first level 3 coaching course (I've done it twice and the course sucks now - it used to be amazing!) with one of the more highly regarded current candidates and all talk about his tactical genius is gloriously (and OFTEN) over-stated. There are no guarantees in the 'next' pile and until Bont tells me the players are done with the coach then I am 50-50 on replacing him.

This year has sucked - totally agree. But there is hope for the future and after 40-years supporting RWB I'm not giving up now.

I had a high level of expectation knowing that we had addressed gaps in defense in Jones and support ruck with Lobb so yes I now have a high level of disappointment given the way we meekly folded with being on the wrong side of very winnable games.
Ill front up again next year but we do need to jump on this poor performance and get it fixed asap.

[Dogs 24/7]

Wow. I actually thought there would be a proper look under the hood across all footy dept operations after the most disastrous 2 weeks against Hawthorn and West Coast during Bevo's entire tenure, not to mention the fact that since 2018 we have carefully and methodically rebuild the list with publicly declared expectations to contend for a number of years as a top 4 team from 2021 onwards.

And having failed by a big margin to achieve our own publicly declared internal expectations for 2 years now, our response is for the same people running the organisation who already conducted a supposedly thorough review 12 months earlier to essentially do the same now?

We are not a serious club.

It has to be an in depth review and someone independent overseeing it otherwise we we giving the impression of wallpapering over cracks. Get a good footy person in and cover off all of the departments and how they all work together. It will become clear very quickly what has hampered our season.

[D Mitchell]

There's undoubtedly something wrong. The email suggests its been identified and work on the problem(s) proposed. At the end of the day, we finished a game out, not bottom, not captain wanting to leave, not players being asked to take pay cuts. Independent Reviews can be unpredictable, like Royal Commissions. I'm OK that there won't be a full on review.

[Dogs 24/7]

Freo missed finals after making it last year and Sydney dropped out of top 4 - again crickets.

Im not worried about other teams and we need Elephants roaring until they get heard.

Having said that Im happy with the response from the President but the proof will be in the actions and changes that follow.

[MrMahatma]

There's undoubtedly something wrong. The email suggests its been identified and work on the problem(s) proposed. At the end of the day, we finished a game out, not bottom, not captain wanting to leave, not players being asked to take pay cuts. Independent Reviews can be unpredictable, like Royal Commissions. I'm OK that there won't be a full on review.

But we could do a review, get the recommendations, then choose which we want to implement. I think the point many are making (and I agree with) is that by doing it internally, there's just a bunch of stuff you won't observe or uncover cause you're inherently blinded to it - cause you live and breath it every day. Or worse, you have the option to avoid topics/areas for review cause you're scared of what you'll find/have to do with what you find.

Do an external review. Get their findings. Overlay that with your internal expertise on how OUR organisation works, and implement the things that are most likely to have a positive impact / create the environment for success.

The only reason we wouldn't do an external review is, surely, ass covering and fear by those running the review that they'd individually be called out as part of the problem, or the findings would directly contradict them and they wouldn't have the gumption to action those recommendations.

Seems a pretty soft approach.

[JanLorMill]

Very disappointed

[Bullies]

Im not worried about other teams and we need Elephants roaring until they get heard.

Having said that Im happy with the response from the President but the proof will be in the actions and changes that follow.
i was more referring to the fact that for whatever reason they love to put the boots in on Bevo and co when there are other moving targets out there.

[bornadog]

Im not worried about other teams and we need Elephants roaring until they get heard.

Having said that Im happy with the response from the President but the proof will be in the actions and changes that follow.

Strange quoting me when I was responding to something different

see above

[JanLorMill]

Another internal review is the definition of accepting mediocrity.
Really upset I follow a gutless club.

[westbulldog]

Internal reviews are usually "caesar unto caesar" bs which may look good but in essence are purely window dressing and they don't result in the really hard decisions being taken.

[D Mitchell]

But we could do a review, get the recommendations, then choose which we want to implement. I think the point many are making (and I agree with) is that by doing it internally, there's just a bunch of stuff you won't observe or uncover cause you're inherently blinded to it - cause you live and breath it every day. Or worse, you have the option to avoid topics/areas for review cause you're scared of what you'll find/have to do with what you find.

Do an external review. Get their findings. Overlay that with your internal expertise on how OUR organisation works, and implement the things that are most likely to have a positive impact / create the environment for success.

The only reason we wouldn't do an external review is, surely, ass covering and fear by those running the review that they'd individually be called out as part of the problem, or the findings would directly contradict them and they wouldn't have the gumption to action those recommendations..approach.
I think it's a proportionate response by the Club. Examples

1. Costigan Royal Commission into Painters and Dockers 1980 - 1984. Set out to investigate allegations of criminality in the P & D Union. What emerged was Bottom-of-the-Harbour- Schemes, allegations against Packer, establishment of the National Crime Authority. It was supposed to be scheming by conservatives wanting to have the Union de registered to embarrass Labor. If that was the case, it blew up spectacularly in their faces because the Union wasn't deregistered and attention was turned on Packer and other conservatives. Whilst the outcome might please you, it illustrates the dangers.

2. A small public company for which I worked newly finished uni. The ED was an old fashioned, authoritarian but was really good at his job- vision. The Board got consultants in to review. Privately employees complained about the ED's management style, the consultants' report recommended that he be required to change, he said "My way or the highway". Bluff called and his replacement nowhere his calibre, eventually closed down.

3. Last year, Collingwood. McGuire calls in a couple of Qld Academics to run an audit over allegations made by Lamumba. Ends up having to resign. Nothing changed at the club. All that came from that review was loss of, whatever you think of him, a good club president.

What we really want is better on field performance, not heads rolling.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

But we could do a review, get the recommendations, then choose which we want to implement. I think the point many are making (and I agree with) is that by doing it internally, there's just a bunch of stuff you won't observe or uncover cause you're inherently blinded to it - cause you live and breath it every day. Or worse, you have the option to avoid topics/areas for review cause you're scared of what you'll find/have to do with what you find.

Do an external review. Get their findings. Overlay that with your internal expertise on how OUR organisation works, and implement the things that are most likely to have a positive impact / create the environment for success.

The only reason we wouldn't do an external review is, surely, ass covering and fear by those running the review that they'd individually be called out as part of the problem, or the findings would directly contradict them and they wouldn't have the gumption to action those recommendations.

Seems a pretty soft approach.

I'm not as adamant about this narrative necessarily being the simplest explanation of how these events might happen.

I work as a business analyst in a small team, that lead or shape multiple projects in our organisation.
We review our strategies and projects regularly, and with demonstrated professional integrity in reviewing and evaluating their impact or effectiveness.

That we initiate and run the reviews, does not mean our views or data analysis aren't shared with independent experts for input and or feedback. As long as you're not wedded to an outcome, and you're just invested in improvement and by extension, taking on board frank feedback, and making defensible decisions, then an internal review isn't really a bad thing.

I've been guilty, plenty of times, of forgetting sometimes the club is in the real world; an environment where you have 17 competing clubs, all professionals themselves, vying to reach the top whilst also trying to prevent you from doing so.

Just like in business, sometimes despite your best efforts, things don't work, and it's not always due to the personnel. Sometimes it is, and when it is you need to act, for sure.

But I just respect that I don't, (and I doubt most here either) possess the sort of inside knowledge that would enable me to be so strident about changing the coach, or so vehement in my analysis of what is wrong or what must be done. I just don't have all the inside facts required to make any sort of confident assertions, other than just make reasoned speculation for fun. And therefore I'm not going to be so vehement or strident with my convictions or so personally invested in the process.

Ultimately now KWW, Bains and Grant are directly accountable for this review, and Grant also along with, Power and Beveridge are also accountable for how their strategic plans unfold. They're all on the professional clock now.

I'm comfortable giving them another year to demonstrate they have identified the problems, and have a defensible plan going forward.

In some 46 years of supporting this club, this is the most prosperous, and strongest position we've ever been in as a club. And I don't think it happened by accident. Our club is not run by naive, unthinking fools. They're professionals. I am not suggesting you said this either - just a separate statement by me not aimed at you specifically or anyone in particular.

Now, should evidence come to light in the meantime that the process is unprofessional or less than integrous ,then that in and of itself would be a significant driver for BIG personnel changes in Bulldog's board, executive and/or football department.

I think an external review is really only required when:

you lack the organisational capabilities, skill and data to effectively conduct the review
you lack trust in your people to objectively conduct the review or implement the recommendations
lack access to requisite independent experts or data for input or feedback
your club is riven with conflict, dispute and/or dissent.



I am reasonably confident there will be a raft of external, evidence-based inputs that the Dog's panel will draw on to help shape their conclusions and recommendations.

[macca]

Great points @YHF and enjoyed the balance you bring

I just hope the review is thorough and free of bias

Whatever comes out I hope they follow through on the recommendations

Premeriships are very hard to win , alot has to go in your favour and sometimes luck ( Ross lyon unlick bounce ) not there .

We have core players who are good enough to take us to become top 4, we just need the right supoort and development around them to give them a chance.

[jeemak]

Great post YHF.

[Grantysghost]

I'm not as adamant about this narrative necessarily being the simplest explanation of how these events might happen.

I work as a business analyst in a small team, that lead or shape multiple projects in our organisation.
We review our strategies and projects regularly, and with demonstrated professional integrity in reviewing and evaluating their impact or effectiveness.

That we initiate and run the reviews, does not mean our views or data analysis aren't shared with independent experts for input and or feedback. As long as you're not wedded to an outcome, and you're just invested in improvement and by extension, taking on board frank feedback, and making defensible decisions, then an internal review isn't really a bad thing.

I've been guilty, plenty of times, of forgetting sometimes the club is in the real world; an environment where you have 17 competing clubs, all professionals themselves, vying to reach the top whilst also trying to prevent you from doing so.

Just like in business, sometimes despite your best efforts, things don't work, and it's not always due to the personnel. Sometimes it is, and when it is you need to act, for sure.

But I just respect that I don't, (and I doubt most here either) possess the sort of inside knowledge that would enable me to be so strident about changing the coach, or so vehement in my analysis of what is wrong or what must be done. I just don't have all the inside facts required to make any sort of confident assertions, other than just make reasoned speculation for fun. And therefore I'm not going to be so vehement or strident with my convictions or so personally invested in the process.

Ultimately now KWW, Bains and Grant are directly accountable for this review, and Grant also along with, Power and Beveridge are also accountable for how their strategic plans unfold. They're all on the professional clock now.

I'm comfortable giving them another year to demonstrate they have identified the problems, and have a defensible plan going forward.

In some 46 years of supporting this club, this is the most prosperous, and strongest position we've ever been in as a club. And I don't think it happened by accident. Our club is not run by naive, unthinking fools. They're professionals. I am not suggesting you said this either - just a separate statement by me not aimed at you specifically or anyone in particular.

Now, should evidence come to light in the meantime that the process is unprofessional or less than integrous ,then that in and of itself would be a significant driver for BIG personnel changes in Bulldog's board, executive and/or football department.

I think an external review is really only required when:

you lack the organisational capabilities, skill and data to effectively conduct the review
you lack trust in your people to objectively conduct the review or implement the recommendations
lack access to requisite independent experts or data for input or feedback
your club is riven with conflict, dispute and/or dissent.



I am reasonably confident there will be a raft of external, evidence-based inputs that the Dog's panel will draw on to help shape their conclusions and recommendations.

God you're a BA. I stopped reading after that ;)

Great post.

[hujsh]

I'm not as adamant about this narrative necessarily being the simplest explanation of how these events might happen.

I work as a business analyst in a small team, that lead or shape multiple projects in our organisation.
We review our strategies and projects regularly, and with demonstrated professional integrity in reviewing and evaluating their impact or effectiveness.

That we initiate and run the reviews, does not mean our views or data analysis aren't shared with independent experts for input and or feedback. As long as you're not wedded to an outcome, and you're just invested in improvement and by extension, taking on board frank feedback, and making defensible decisions, then an internal review isn't really a bad thing.

I've been guilty, plenty of times, of forgetting sometimes the club is in the real world; an environment where you have 17 competing clubs, all professionals themselves, vying to reach the top whilst also trying to prevent you from doing so.

Just like in business, sometimes despite your best efforts, things don't work, and it's not always due to the personnel. Sometimes it is, and when it is you need to act, for sure.

But I just respect that I don't, (and I doubt most here either) possess the sort of inside knowledge that would enable me to be so strident about changing the coach, or so vehement in my analysis of what is wrong or what must be done. I just don't have all the inside facts required to make any sort of confident assertions, other than just make reasoned speculation for fun. And therefore I'm not going to be so vehement or strident with my convictions or so personally invested in the process.

Ultimately now KWW, Bains and Grant are directly accountable for this review, and Grant also along with, Power and Beveridge are also accountable for how their strategic plans unfold. They're all on the professional clock now.

I'm comfortable giving them another year to demonstrate they have identified the problems, and have a defensible plan going forward.

In some 46 years of supporting this club, this is the most prosperous, and strongest position we've ever been in as a club. And I don't think it happened by accident. Our club is not run by naive, unthinking fools. They're professionals. I am not suggesting you said this either - just a separate statement by me not aimed at you specifically or anyone in particular.

Now, should evidence come to light in the meantime that the process is unprofessional or less than integrous ,then that in and of itself would be a significant driver for BIG personnel changes in Bulldog's board, executive and/or football department.

I think an external review is really only required when:

you lack the organisational capabilities, skill and data to effectively conduct the review
you lack trust in your people to objectively conduct the review or implement the recommendations
lack access to requisite independent experts or data for input or feedback
your club is riven with conflict, dispute and/or dissent.



I am reasonably confident there will be a raft of external, evidence-based inputs that the Dog's panel will draw on to help shape their conclusions and recommendations.

I get where you're coming from (also a BA) but I imagine your reviews are post project or post sprint and more about iterative improvement. Maybe the club feels that iterative improvement is exactly what they need (add a goal or two to each game and we are top 4) but for a lot of supporters it feels more like something is broken on a sub and now water is leaking in and we need to find and fix it or drown (and to some that broken piece is Bevo).

The fact we supposedly had a big review last year and the main change we made (bringing in Lade) seems to be the same thing we're doing now (bringing in Dew) so the likelyhood that the club needs external feedback feels higher. If your team was delivering over budget or producing a broken product and made changes to make sure that didn't happen after review but then failed to deliver in the exact same manner (actually worse) next time I imagine someone outside the team would be getting pretty interested in what's going on.

[Grantysghost]

I get where you're coming from (also a BA) but I imagine your reviews are post project or post sprint and more about iterative improvement. Maybe the club feels that iterative improvement is exactly what they need (add a goal or two to each game and we are top 4) but for a lot of supporters it feels more like something is broken on a sub and now water is leaking in and we need to find and fix it or drown (and to some that broken piece is Bevo).

The fact we supposedly had a big review last year and the main change we made (bringing in Lade) seems to be the same thing we're doing now (bringing in Dew) so the likelyhood that the club needs external feedback feels higher. If your team was delivering over budget or producing a broken product and made changes to make sure that didn't happen after review but then failed to deliver in the exact same manner (actually worse) next time I imagine someone outside the team would be getting pretty interested in what's going on.

https://media.giphy.com/media/m9jFnJOoQ3hWJ6Muaa/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[josie]

There's undoubtedly something wrong. The email suggests its been identified and work on the problem(s) proposed. At the end of the day, we finished a game out, not bottom, not captain wanting to leave, not players being asked to take pay cuts. Independent Reviews can be unpredictable, like Royal Commissions. I'm OK that there won't be a full on review.

Agree we are not at 2014 crisis stage, however some external input I think would not only have better optics, it is more likely to lay bare decisions the club made that with benefit of hindsight we can learn from, and less likely to be influenced by group think or sunk cost bias, no matter how upright, caring and intelligent the board and management teams are. It might be semantics regarding terms such internal or external/independent reviews. I want the review to be thorough, and I think it should involve external people. The 2016 Richmond review was called an internal review however involved external consultant with extensive experience in sports organisation reviews. https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/328448/balme-joins-richmond-as-part-of-football-re-structure

We will probably end up with similar recommendations either way (having seen consultants deliver recommendations for companies I?ve worked for and thinking ?sheesh!!!, we paid that insane amount of money for a report we knew what recommendations would be prior to review, and indeed shared with the consultants during the review?), but I?d feel more comfortable if we embraced a similar approach to what Richmond did, in our ?internal review?. Perhaps that?s what we are planning anyway, however if it is I wish Kylie and the Board would share that with us.

[jeemak]

Perhaps the issues we find are the issues we found last year, or are at least very similar and our fixes were insufficient or couldn't be executed last year.

With coaches on multi-year contracts and resources limited, it's not as if you can always find the right person and secure them at a reasonable cost. Perhaps bringing in Lade was one piece of the same puzzle and Dew is another.

It's not unusual in an operation to find that the fixes you put in didn't go far enough, in fact it happens all the time.

[MrMahatma]

I am reasonably confident there will be a raft of external, evidence-based inputs that the Dog's panel will draw on to help shape their conclusions and recommendations.

Good post. Won’t quote it all to save scrolling!
I guess for me, given we did an internal review last year, what’s different this year? It doesn’t really make sense. The club haven’t articulated how it’ll be different.

I agree they aren’t idiots. They are human. And I don’t see downside in an external review given they can still chose to not implement some of the findings.