Sharp Axes

[GVGjr]

I get where you're coming from (also a BA) but I imagine your reviews are post project or post sprint and more about iterative improvement. Maybe the club feels that iterative improvement is exactly what they need (add a goal or two to each game and we are top 4) but for a lot of supporters it feels more like something is broken on a sub and now water is leaking in and we need to find and fix it or drown (and to some that broken piece is Bevo).

The fact we supposedly had a big review last year and the main change we made (bringing in Lade) seems to be the same thing we're doing now (bringing in Dew) so the likelyhood that the club needs external feedback feels higher. If your team was delivering over budget or producing a broken product and made changes to make sure that didn't happen after review but then failed to deliver in the exact same manner (actually worse) next time I imagine someone outside the team would be getting pretty interested in what's going on.

The findings of the review last year were never made public which is okay because the club might not have wanted some things shared. It coincided with Maples departure who we never replaced but I get the sense that we will later this year albeit with a different title. I'm guessing here but did we make the position redundant blaming soft cap restrictions so we could move Maple on?

Now we have another review and hopefully we will see some more changes and a substantial change to our footy department set-up

[hujsh]

Perhaps the issues we find are the issues we found last year, or are at least very similar and our fixes were insufficient or couldn't be executed last year.

With coaches on multi-year contracts and resources limited, it's not as if you can always find the right person and secure them at a reasonable cost. Perhaps bringing in Lade was one piece of the same puzzle and Dew is another.

It's not unusual in an operation to find that the fixes you put in didn't go far enough, in fact it happens all the time.


The findings of the review last year were never made public which is okay because the club might not have wanted some things shared. It coincided with Maples departure who we never replaced but I get the sense that we will later this year albeit with a different title. I'm guessing here but did we make the position redundant blaming soft cap restrictions so we could move Maple on?

Now we have another review and hopefully we will see some more changes and a substantial change to our footy department set-up
I hope both these takes prove accurate. Definitely looking forward to the off field signings this year

[macca]

I get where you're coming from (also a BA) but I imagine your reviews are post project or post sprint and more about iterative improvement. Maybe the club feels that iterative improvement is exactly what they need (add a goal or two to each game and we are top 4) but for a lot of supporters it feels more like something is broken on a sub and now water is leaking in and we need to find and fix it or drown (and to some that broken piece is Bevo).

The fact we supposedly had a big review last year and the main change we made (bringing in Lade) seems to be the same thing we're doing now (bringing in Dew) so the likelyhood that the club needs external feedback feels higher. If your team was delivering over budget or producing a broken product and made changes to make sure that didn't happen after review but then failed to deliver in the exact same manner (actually worse) next time I imagine someone outside the team would be getting pretty interested in what's going on.

Since your talking about agile concepts may they should just keep it simple and have a retrospective?

stop
start
continue doing ( things do well) .
:)

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Since your talking about agile concepts may they should just keep it simple and have a retrospective?

stop
start
continue doing ( things do well) .
:)

Oh God we need to shut this thread down. I don't wanna see this sh*t on a footy forum where I go to get away from work!

[Grantysghost]

Oh God we need to shut this thread down. I don't wanna see this sh*t on a footy forum where I go to get away from work!

Make sure you put a DoD and update your story points please BTT.

[Danjul]

Agree we are not at 2014 crisis stage, however some external input I think would not only have better optics, it is more likely to lay bare decisions the club made that with benefit of hindsight we can learn from, and less likely to be
We will probably end up with similar recommendations either way (having seen consultants deliver recommendations for companies I?ve us.
Actually not much different as far as supporters go.

In 2014 the Dogs won 4 of the last 11 games. In 2023 they won 4 of the last 11 games. But that was helped by Geelong fielding a VFL team.

In late 2014 they defeated the bottom team, St Kilda, by 23 points. In 2023 the bottom team defeated the Dogs.

Yep, looks like a crisis.

[bornadog]

The findings of the review last year were never made public which is okay because the club might not have wanted some things shared. It coincided with Maples departure who we never replaced but I get the sense that we will later this year albeit with a different title. I'm guessing here but did we make the position redundant blaming soft cap restrictions so we could move Maple on?

Now we have another review and hopefully we will see some more changes and a substantial change to our footy department set-up

My gut tells me the review last year was not as extensive as what will happen this year.

From what we know, last year we identified Bevo needs a senior assistant so we got one (Lade), and we needed to change our game plan - which we did and it failed miserably in the first two rounds, so we switched again. Maybe the Maple one as you say, was also a change that was identified, who knows the reasoning. Doesn't sound like much else happened last year.

This year the club is actually under pressure for the dismissal display on field, and the pressure is from not only media, but supporters as well and seems the review will be more far reaching.

[mjp]

Actually not much different as far as supporters go.

In 2014 the Dogs won 4 of the last 11 games. In 2023 they won 4 of the last 11 games. But that was helped by Geelong fielding a VFL team.



Really?

In 2014 we played 5 of our last 6 at home.

We also LOST 5 of our last 6. 3 of those losses were by > 50 points.

I mean...this isn't 2014 for goodness sakes. Our last 5 losses were by a TOTAL of 29 points combined.

I'm unhappy as well but why exactly are we invoking the ghosts of that dire season?

[Topdog]

7 wins with 82% vs 11 wins with 108%. Ridiculous to compare.

[Topdog]

The moving on of Smith gives me some hope that the review will be exhaustive as they have shown already that they are wiling to make some hard decisions.

[G-Mo77]

Really?

In 2014 we played 5 of our last 6 at home.

We also LOST 5 of our last 6. 3 of those losses were by > 50 points.

I mean...this isn't 2014 for goodness sakes. Our last 5 losses were by a TOTAL of 29 points combined.

I'm unhappy as well but why exactly are we invoking the ghosts of that dire season?

Much harder for supporters to stomach. In 2014 we weren't expected to be any good. 2023 we were expected to be a finals team with a comfortable run home. I think they're on par with each other.

[MrMahatma]

The moving on of Smith gives me some hope that the review will be exhaustive as they have shown already that they are wiling to make some hard decisions.

Was that change the result of last season's review? Or just cause he was out of contract we made a change for change's sake?

[G-Mo77]

Was that change the result of last season's review? Or just cause he was out of contract we made a change for change's sake?

Probably the latter. I don't believe there was any review, well nothing worthy of calling it that anyway.

[Danjul]

Really?

In 2014 we played 5 of our last 6 at home.

We also LOST 5 of our last 6. 3 of those losses were by > 50 points.

I mean...this isn't 2014 for goodness sakes. Our last 5 losses were by a TOTAL of 29 points combined.

I'm unhappy as well but why exactly are we invoking the ghosts of that dire season?

4 out of 11 is 4 out of 11.

In 2014 we did not have Bont in All Australian form. English inAA form. Who was our Naughton in those days? The team was rebuilding not declining.

Those 3 big losses were against the ladder leader at the time. They were beating everyone. The only team close on the ladder that defeated the Dogs was GWS , where they still had 35 scoring shots and lost because of poor accuracy and not poor effort.

Our five losses this year were exactly that, 5 losses, but you could include the word unnecessary. But I would use Inexcusable.

Who did we lose to?

A depleted Sydney who couldn?t field a complete team. GWS without Green, their best midfielder, and their full forward. Hawthorn who has totally worked out our game plan. West coast who was beaten by 100+ by multiple teams. Basically a far inferior group of opponents than in late 2014.

I understand the need for positive propaganda, but 2014 had some signs that the rebuild might be leading somewhere. from the same seat a couple of weeks ago I saw nothing to be positive about.

[jeemak]

Really?

In 2014 we played 5 of our last 6 at home.

We also LOST 5 of our last 6. 3 of those losses were by > 50 points.

I mean...this isn't 2014 for goodness sakes. Our last 5 losses were by a TOTAL of 29 points combined.

I'm unhappy as well but why exactly are we invoking the ghosts of that dire season?

It's WOOF's version of corporal mortification.

[Danjul]

7 wins with 82% vs 11 wins with 108%. Ridiculous to compare.
The seasons finished exactly the same way. 4 wins from the last 11 games.

But I can accept that failing by a little is better than failing by more. Finishing below 8th is a failed season as far as supporters are concerned. And this year it was a team of champions ( or so we are told) that failed. That is what is ridiculous. They couldn?t win half of the games when they obviously had a soft road to the finals. Shameful.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

The seasons finished exactly the same way. 4 wins from the last 11 games.

But I can accept that failing by a little is better than failing by more. Finishing below 8th is a failed season as far as supporters are concerned. And this year it was a team of champions ( or so we are told) that failed. That is what is ridiculous. They couldn?t win half of the games when they obviously had a soft road to the finals. Shameful.

Is it also shameful Geelong, the premiers didn't make the finals?

[Danjul]

Is it also shameful Geelong, the premiers didn't make the finals?
I can?t comment about Geelong because I don?t pay for a seat to watch them.

But yes, the Dogs pitiful second half of 2021 was shameful.

I hope they hang their heads for the incompetence displayed.

But they won?t. They will quickly be partying and finding ways to spend the big bucks they clearly did not earn.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I can?t comment about Geelong because I don?t pay for a seat to watch them.

But yes, the Dogs pitiful second half of 2021 was shameful.

I hope they hang their heads for the incompetence displayed.

But they won?t. They will quickly be partying and finding ways to spend the big bucks they clearly did not earn.

Good luck to you. I just can't be as invested as you in things I can't control nor be as vehement or strident in my views where I don't have all the inside information as to the state of mind and preparedness and professionalism of the group.

[Danjul]

Good luck to you. I just can't be as invested as you in things I can't control nor be as vehement or strident in my views where I don't have all the inside information as to the state of mind and preparedness and professionalism of the group.
Invested is the correct word. The club says invest in us by sending in your membership fee.

Where I sit that seems to be a significant amount for the families getting multiple memberships. And I can tell you that they are not happy with what they got this year.

As an example, in the second half of the season (which some on WOOF argue was pretty good) paid up members saw their team steadily slide from 5th In round 8 to 9th after the West Coast debacle in round 23. A continual decline where members lost faith to a degree I have never witnessed before. They were not even surprised when the team with only 2 wins put on a professional display from the first minute to add to their tally.

It seems like the people with the inside information have forgotten about and lost touch with the supporters.

[jeemak]

Nobody thinks the second half of the season was pretty good.

People just acknowledge the difference between success and failure is often slim and that we were in most games.

[Virgin-Dog]

Since your talking about agile concepts may they should just keep it simple and have a retrospective?

stop
start
continue doing ( things do well) .
:)
Seems our club has embraced agile concepts. Aimed to deliver the minimum viable product this year ��

[mjp]

I understand the need for positive propaganda, but 2014 had some signs that the rebuild might be leading somewhere. from the same seat a couple of weeks ago I saw nothing to be positive about.

No. No it didn't. Every week we won tackles and contested ball. And we never scored. And we couldn't move the ball. It was totally shit. I'm actually really surprised to hear you say that. What about 2014 did you like???


4 out of 11 is 4 out of 11.

In 2014 we did not have Bont in All Australian form. English in AA form. Who was our Naughton in those days? The team was rebuilding not declining.

Well - yes. Hence right now we should have HOPE! Whereas in 2014 we had NO HOPE. And then our captain left.

I'm not sure we're rebuilding or declining right now...we're treading water. There are a lot of excuses being thrown around for the situation we are in AND a lot of Monday Morning Quarterbacking being done re- "THE ANSWERS".

I know everyone thinks they know more - or at least as much! - as Chris Grant and a LOT more than Bevo. I totally get it. Because everything is obvious depending on what side of the fence you are on...but I don't think anyone is making mistakes on purpose and I remain unconvinced that simply 'sacking everyone' is the best plan.

Should they have done an externally driven review? Maybe? How should I know?? Maybe the outcome of last years review was actually 100% on the money but circumstances prevented the implementation of some of the key recommendations? None of us know...

[Sedat]

What about 2014 did you like???
The moment BMac got sacked.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Invested is the correct word. The club says invest in us by sending in your membership fee.

Where I sit that seems to be a significant amount for the families getting multiple memberships. And I can tell you that they are not happy with what they got this year.

As an example, in the second half of the season (which some on WOOF argue was pretty good) paid up members saw their team steadily slide from 5th In round 8 to 9th after the West Coast debacle in round 23. A continual decline where members lost faith to a degree I have never witnessed before. They were not even surprised when the team with only 2 wins put on a professional display from the first minute to add to their tally.

It seems like the people with the inside information have forgotten about and lost touch with the supporters.

Look, I'll wear that I engaged here to begin so that's on me. In this instance you're conflating and misrepresenting words I've used for the pretext of an emotive, subjective and somewhat hyperbolic narrative.

To use my word 'invest' in the same context as you have; How you choose to invest in the club, is truly up to you. If its a binary decision for you, and I get the cost side of it, (so I'm not denying that can be a key element for many supporters) then that's cool. Its just not my perspective. My investment is unconditional. Just is. I'm fortunate right now that we can still afford to, even though in Brissy we rarely ever get to see a game most seasons.

But I do understand and am totally ambivalent about how people choose to frame their support for the Dog's. Its just football.

That doesn't mean I'm satisfied with poor performance or not invested in how the club runs from a professional perspective.
But as long as the club is professionally run, and there are no issues of maladministration or malfeasance, then I try not to be too absolute in my judgments, these days anyway, on things where I just don't have possession of crucial information.

That doesn't mean I don't like to make opinion, I love that, that's the enjoyment of this site. But these days, anyway I try to tone my sureness,absoluteness or vehemence down a notch, and I try to be as respectful (I hope) to the players and coaches. I respect they're professionals.


I mean, Danjul your words:

" A continual decline where members lost faith to a degree I have never witnessed before"
Really? I'm only about to turn 50, but I've lost faith in the Dogs probably for more periods than I have had faith in them! That's all part and parcel of my investment in the experience. :)

I mean think of that, we won a flag 7 years ago.... I went all of my life up until very late in the afternoon on October 1, 2016 rarely thinking I'd witness that event! We've also appeared in a GF only 2 seasons back, as disappointing as that ended, it was quite an achievement.

Yes, it's been disappointing, yes we want better, but clearly these guys do have some idea of how football works and what needs to happen to be successful. I'm going to back their professionalism for the time being. They would acknowledge they're ultimately going to be held account at some point, realistically probably end of next year if we don't improve.

"They were not even surprised when the team with only 2 wins put on a professional display from the first minute to add to their tally."


It gives me a little smile to to think Danjul, that if there is a multiverse, then there is another reality where you and Bevo and say Power and Grant, Bains and Wheeler are sitting down and they answer all of your criticisms, expressed in the manner and narrative you consistently use. That would be an interesting conversation! I reckon you might enjoy that fanciful thought too Danjul :)

But seriously, the level of entitlement in your statement there. Yes it's embarrassing to lose to the bottom team, but it does happen. It has happened before, many times, to many teams. It's a kick in the butt, I bet. Despite getting belted all season, these dudes at West Coast are also professionals, and coached by professionals who want to win and who have demonstrated bona fides as exceptional coaches.

Yep it sucks, and we've got to do better. but sheesh,

I do however think the last statement in your post,contains a kernel of insight.

"It seems like the people with the inside information have forgotten about and lost touch with the supporters."

I think its come through in many people's posts that we as a club seem to have struggled in recent years to foster the experience of members in some aspects.
I get that the club can't share specific IP. But I do think they could be more open and engaging with members and at least try to address some of the key frustrations of fans in some way.

Could maybe the club offer fans the opportunity to send in questions online and say once every month the coach or player or president or CEO does a vox pop video response that goes out to members???

The important thing is that at least some of the questions could not be Dorothy Dixers.

Let's say for example Danjul you got to send in a question about one of your pet peeves in the non-selection of Jordon Sweet, or Bevo's use of the ruck.

HE might be able to say something insightful without giving away valuable IP by saying something like .. ...

'Hi Danjul, thanks for the question/statement??obviously I can't give away specific information, but what I can talk about in general is the importance of the right data points, in the right context and with the right outcomes you want in mind. It's a bit more complex than winning say the hit-outs, or say losing the hits outs, or player X getting this many kicks. Most of those individual figures are going to be influenced by the philosophy and game style and tactical outcomes you're trying to orchestrate.

We know what our key indicators are; that give us our best tactical chance at winning. We understand our relative appetite for risk in various game situations, and we also understand the opportunity costs of our brand of football. Just as we know what our KPI's look like when we win, we also know what they look like when we don't play well.

And we also know why. We break down a different set of data points at a more micro level to examine the underlying causes for when we don't play well, as do our opponents in the league.

This probably is the cause for why certain selection decisions don't appear to you the outsider as making sense. That and other factors that take into account footballers are human beings, like you, and me who are subjects to the vagaries of life;, sickness, happiness, injury, sadness,personal loss, stress ,relationships etc....

And we have to manage that too but in the context of a group of 44 players with their own lives.

I'd love to give you more information, Danjul, but obviously I just can't do that, and so you'll do with that knowledge gap what you will, as a fan, that's your right.. but I'd just ask that you at least acknowledge we're not oblivious to our problems nor are we negligent in our analysis of tactics and personnel decisions. We are professionals, and so whilst you have every right to criticise, just maybe be cognisant of that or take it into account into how you approach your criticism of us."

Personally, I'd love to hear how Bevo might be able to frame a response around such issues/questions like:

our trend of giving up big runs of goals
Why is our goalkicking so consistently erratic?
It seems like we don't employ hard tags, are you able to talk about what things the coaches think about during a game, when an opposition player is getting off the chain and having a significant? influence

[GVGjr]

Is it also shameful Geelong, the premiers didn't make the finals?

There is a couple of ways of looking at this.
Geelong flagged their intention to rejig their list straight after their flag win by abandoning their successful top up or draft dodging approach by bringing in some younger talent and investing just a bit in the draft.
They've had one more crack at it and it didn't work. How they position themselves for next year will tell the story.

Our position was to top up with experienced players and we've come up well short. I don't blame Geelong for having one more crack at it but we've really hit the wall and I now welcome some media focus.

Perhaps the best way of looking at Geelongs performance this year is to compare it to ours in 2017 and I think we were very fortunate that we weren't grilled that hard by the media back then.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

There is a couple of ways of looking at this.
Geelong flagged their intention to rejig their list straight after their flag win by abandoning their successful top up or draft dodging approach by bringing in some younger talent and investing just a bit in the draft.
They've had one more crack at it and it didn't work. How they position themselves for next year will tell the story.

Our position was to top up with experienced players and we've come up well short. I don't blame Geelong for having one more crack at it but we've really hit the wall and I now welcome some media focus.

Perhaps the best way of looking at Geelongs performance this year is to compare it to ours in 2017 and I think we were very fortunate that we weren't grilled that hard by the media back then.

2017 we were excellent early and then fell away badly towards the end. A lot due to injury and as we all know now, a lot due to partying a bit too long.

Thinking back to that premiership squad, I constantly note several players whose qualities we are dearly missing right now. The likes of Clay Smith, M Boyd, Morris, Dahl, Wood, Picken etc who were either excellent leaders, or lead by example by putting their head over the ball/their body on the line week in week out, or both. We sorely miss these elements in today's squad.

We've got enough top end talent who are unfortunately incredibly inconsistent or lack leadership qualities. Too much is falling on Bont.

Our middle tier in my opinion has plenty of talent that isn't being realised on a consistent basis. We really need the likes of Daniel, Dale, Williams, English, Richards etc to step up and perform greater roles more consistently. That would be a huge boost for the side.

The bottom tier is absolute garbage. But it's often the easiest to address through draft or trade. This is the area we need grunt and pressure. We've unfortunately held onto our bottom tier players for way too long when they've hardly performed.

Add to all that is our list balance. Our KPD, wings and ruck stocks have been poor for a long time now. We've been too slow to react to this.

The main element for me is our effort. Why are our players by and large so inconsistent with their efforts? Is it coaching? Just unlucky with the personnel we have? Players playing out of position? Players not understanding their role? Fatigue from a taxing gameplan? In any case, a new coach or what not won't solve much if our players continue to dish out crap effort every 2nd or 3rd week.

[GVGjr]

2017 we were excellent early and then fell away badly towards the end. A lot due to injury and as we all know now, a lot due to partying a bit too long.


We got off to a reasonable start in 2017 but I never felt confident with the way we were playing that well. We kept hoping that we would eventually click into gear
We spent the majority of the 2nd half of the season loitering around 8th and 9th and were very unconvincing.

[bornadog]

We got off to a reasonable start in 2017 but I never felt confident with the way we were playing that well. We kept hoping that we would eventually click into gear
We spent the majority of the 2nd half of the season loitering around 8th and 9th and were very unconvincing.

We had an injury list with no lest than 10 players, but we didn't have depth to replace them.

We lost the last three games and would have played finals.

[Rocket Science]

The bottom tier is absolute garbage. But it's often the easiest to address through draft or trade. This is the area we need grunt and pressure. We've unfortunately held onto our bottom tier players for way too long when they've hardly performed.

Bang on with this.

Our strategy of deploying tepid bodies who are vaguely okay at a few things things but not especially good at anything has been a futile merry go round at the selection table. Perhaps we've preferenced these types because we intend to shoe-horn them into any and every role where we have a deficiency. That's gone well ...

We desperately need difference makers, not benign plodders who can find 25 touches with prime minutes at VFL level but have zero influence the next grade up when we need them to do a job.

We'd be better served by a couple of bastards frankly that make us harder to play against, ideally with some toe and a taste for making opponents' lives miserable. Nothing idiotic, but contributors who can offer something in a limited role that helps us win tight games of football.

[Grantysghost]

Bang on with this.

Our strategy of deploying tepid bodies who are vaguely okay at a few things things but not especially good at anything has been a futile merry go round at the selection table. Perhaps we've preferenced these types because we intend to shoe-horn them into any and every role where we have a deficiency. That's gone well ...

We desperately need difference makers, not benign plodders who can find 25 touches with prime minutes at VFL level but have zero influence the next grade up when we need them to do a job.

We'd be better served by a couple of bastards frankly that make us harder to play against, ideally with some toe and a taste for making opponents' lives miserable. Nothing idiotic, but contributors who can offer something in a limited role that helps us win tight games of football.

Sullivan fits the brief I think.

[josie]

Bang on with this.

Our strategy of deploying tepid bodies who are vaguely okay at a few things things but not especially good at anything has been a futile merry go round at the selection table. Perhaps we've preferenced these types because we intend to shoe-horn them into any and every role where we have a deficiency. That's gone well ...

We desperately need difference makers, not benign plodders who can find 25 touches with prime minutes at VFL level but have zero influence the next grade up when we need them to do a job.

We'd be better served by a couple of bastards frankly that make us harder to play against, ideally with some toe and a taste for making opponents' lives miserable. Nothing idiotic, but contributors who can offer something in a limited role that helps us win tight games of football.

Too true. This team is low on tenacity. Wish we could unearth our own couple of Maynard’s and McCreery’s, or Powell Pepper’s. They happen to be pretty quick and skilful too but I especially love their grunt.

[bornadog]

I?ve just sent an email to the club in response to Kylie?s letter, asking why it?s not an external review given the internal review last year did not prove to be sufficient.

Hi Josie, Did you get a response to this

[Danjul]

??.We are professionals, and so whilst you have every right to criticise, just maybe be cognisant of that or take it into account into how you approach your criticism of us??

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

In 2021 we saw Weightman heavily bump a bigger player and sustain an injury which prevented him using his shoulder. A week later he took the field and couldn?t use that arm. He got 1 disposal. Selecting unfit players is not acceptable in professional sport and I said so at the time.

A few weeks later we saw Bruce return from a serious injury. Clearly unable to compete he had 1 possession up to the 15 minute mark of the last quarter. I posted an image from the AFL site showing that.

I don?t accept the fact that anything in the list of considerations in your reply in anyway justifies accepting unprofessional decisions like this. Not only is it offensive to supporters but it displays a failure in the duty of care to the players.

So rather than worry about what might be said in a hypothetical situation I think it is my duty to comment on things that are plainly displayed in the public arena. Facts we can call them.

To illustrate further, referring to the last few games.

We saw the extraordinary situation when English took the kick in. Quite funny, we had a laugh. But combine that with Dale bringing the ball back in and running too far because nobody up the field was in an appropriate position. And Daniel bringing the ball back in during the last game, and being totally nonplussed for the same reason.

I think the backline saved the team this season, but when the basics are missing repeatedly do we say unprofessional or amateurish.

Or do we ignore it all and say that this is simply going to plan according to the guys behind closed doors. Unfortunately I lean towards the last sentence.

So thanks once again, but we will respond differently to the Dogs performance in the future I suspect.

[jeemak]

Weightman injured his elbow and was deemed fit to play the following week. It's not uncommon for that to happen with that type of injury. I think he also played the second half of the game in which he was injured, and though ineffective him playing enabled us to maintain rotations (in a similar way Dan Hannebury did in the 2016 GF on one leg).

Yes he may have been distracted by it the following week, but was a young player learning to play under duress and shouldn't have been shielded from that. All players play with pain at some point in their careers, you have to get the experience eventually.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

In 2021 we saw Weightman heavily bump a bigger player and sustain an injury which prevented him using his shoulder. A week later he took the field and couldn?t use that arm. He got 1 disposal. Selecting unfit players is not acceptable in professional sport and I said so at the time.

A few weeks later we saw Bruce return from a serious injury. Clearly unable to compete he had 1 possession up to the 15 minute mark of the last quarter. I posted an image from the AFL site showing that.

I don?t accept the fact that anything in the list of considerations in your reply in anyway justifies accepting unprofessional decisions like this. Not only is it offensive to supporters but it displays a failure in the duty of care to the players.

So rather than worry about what might be said in a hypothetical situation I think it is my duty to comment on things that are plainly displayed in the public arena. Facts we can call them.

To illustrate further, referring to the last few games.

We saw the extraordinary situation when English took the kick in. Quite funny, we had a laugh. But combine that with Dale bringing the ball back in and running too far because nobody up the field was in an appropriate position. And Daniel bringing the ball back in during the last game, and being totally nonplussed for the same reason.

I think the backline saved the team this season, but when the basics are missing repeatedly do we say unprofessional or amateurish.

Or do we ignore it all and say that this is simply going to plan according to the guys behind closed doors. Unfortunately I lean towards the last sentence.

So thanks once again, but we will respond differently to the Dogs performance in the future I suspect.

Cheers, as you said its clear we will respond differently in respect to our views on the Dogs, but more power to you Danjul, keep on trucking.

[josie]

Hi Josie, Did you get a response to this

Not yet, if I do I’ll let woofers know.

[jeemak]

Cheers, as you said its clear we will respond differently in respect to our views on the Dogs, but more power to you Danjul, keep on trucking.

We're so dispirited after this rubbish season that we can't threaten nets even though you live 1700kms north?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We're so dispirited after this rubbish season that we can't threaten nets even though you live 1700kms north?

Makes one yearn for those cheery and heady Royce Hart, Alan Joyce, Peter Rohde or Brendan McCartney eras. End of 1989 was a ripper too.
Nets should be obligatory after this disastrous reign of failure!

[angelopetraglia]

Who saved Collingwood? How the Magpies rebuilt their off-field spine after disastrous salary cap drama, ?Do Better? report and miserable 2021

Out: McGuire, Buckley, Walsh, Anderson, Korda, Guy. In: Browne, Kelly, McRae, Wright. Go behind the bloody boardroom brawls and get the inside story on who saved Collingwood.

It was the phone call that landed the biggest fish in Collingwood?s resurrection.

In the first week of December last year, Magpies president Jeff Browne ? just one season into the job ? made a final pitch to powerful footy agent and 1990 premiership player Craig Kelly to take the reins as chief executive.

?I was sitting in my office in Collins St and I said, ?Mate, I need you to come back to Collingwood and give back to Collingwood,? Browne recalled this week.

?And the way I put it to him was like when I was in the law. A senior King?s Counsel would probably earn $5m or $6m a year today, but what a lot of them do is they then go to the bench and become a judge, earning three or four hundred grand a year.

?The reason they do that is to give back to the profession that gave them the opportunity to be so successful and that?s what I put to Ned. And he said, ?Yeah, I think that would be a great way to finish my career?.

?I probably had him before that, but it was the moment when he said ?Yes?.?

Much has changed at Australia?s biggest sporting club since the dark days of the 2020 salary cap debacle, the leaking of the explosive ?Do Better? racism report and a miserable 17th place finish in 2021.

President Eddie McGuire, coach Nathan Buckley, footy boss Geoff Walsh, chief executive Mark Anderson, senior director Mark Korda and list chief Ned Guy are out and a new broom led by Browne, Kelly, senior coach Craig McRae and football boss Graham Wright (another 1990 flag hero) have taken over.

Browne?s rise to the presidency was bloody and prolonged, but it has since been defined by two rollicking seasons, record membership and the club?s first minor premiership in a dozen years.

McGuire declined to talk about the remaking of Collingwood since those turbulent days, but Buckley conceded that on reflection, change was needed for the greater good.

?I always thought that Ed was going to need to step aside for new growth, but I didn?t realise that I needed to do it as well (laughs) ?? he said.

Buckley, who came within a Dom Sheed drop punt of becoming a premiership coach in 2018, joked that there was a ?great irony? in Wright ? who he?d ?been trying to get back to the club for ages? ? being the one who managed him out.

It was Wright and football director Paul Licuria who then drove the pivotal appointment of McRae, whose style even Buckley believes is ?more naturally? suited to ?what we had become?.

?He?s just taken it to another level,? Buckley said.

EDDIE V GALBALLY

Francis Galbally, the lawyer turned businessman who drove the 2021 boardroom coup, describes McGuire as ?the best president Collingwood?s ever had?.

?He achieved so much, but unfortunately he stayed too long,? Galbally said this week.

At the height of the bitter boardroom brawl, Galbally, who served as the club?s honorary solicitor from 1976-94, likened Collingwood?s governance failings to the spectacular downfall of Crown Resorts.

His attempts at brokering a peaceful transition in late 2020 were rebuffed by McGuire, sparking angst that lingers to this day.

?The governance just wasn?t there because everyone effectively did what Eddie wanted,? Galbally said.

?Football is about football. We don?t need to hear about the CEO or the chairman all the time. All the fans want to know about is the players, the coach and what is happening on the ground. Collingwood has gone back to that, which is fabulous.

?No person has the right to say ?this is what is going to happen and that is it?. We had that in the past, but now we have proper debate and a consensus reached.

?So, as soon as you get the head right it just goes all the way down to the other parts of the body and that is what has happened at Collingwood ? and I?m ecstatic about it.

?The transformation of the club has been the result of an extraordinary effort by a large number of Magpies members who came together for a common cause, but most would prefer to remain anonymous.?

Browne said this week of Galbally?s public role in the remaking of the Pies: ?Francis was a vital part of the campaign to bring change to Collingwood. And if we hadn?t changed things up, I don?t believe we would have been as successful. He was a key protagonist.?

BROWNE V KORDA

Former president Mark Korda, who replaced McGuire when he stepped down in February 2021, concedes that the board battle with Browne ? the man who coveted his job ? was messier than it needed to be.

As bitter as the fight became, he has given Browne a thumbs up for the way the new Collingwood is travelling right now.

He?s watched the club?s fightback from afar and says he is proud that the board under his presidency ratified two of the most important appointments in the Magpies? new era, Wright and McRae.

Korda conceded the Magpies got ?the optics? wrong in its fire sale of three grand final players Adam Treloar, Jaidyn Stephenson and Tom Phillips in a damaging 2020 trade period that prompted protests from Collingwood fans. But he insisted they were the right calls.

Asked for an assessment of how Browne has led, Korda said: ?He is doing a fine job. Clubs are always happy places when the team is winning and I am very happy to see Collingwood winning.

?We would all say as directors who have moved on that we have left the club in a better state than when we started.?

Korda praised the selfless approach from Buckley in mid-2021.

?Nathan decided, and the club decided, that it was time to make a change, but he handled it so well. His morals and principles were outstanding,? Korda said.

?He did what was in the best interests of the Collingwood Football Club, and I think the change to Craig has been an important part of the success you have seen.?

Browne and Korda have made amends and the latter received life membership last year.

?I rang him before the AGM and told him ? and I think that was appropriate to say thank you for 14 years of service,? Browne said.

?If you harbour those things and let them fester they just get worse.?

THE LICA FACTOR

Collingwood?s last premiership coach Mick Malthouse says vice-president Paul Licuria was a ?winner? from the board upheaval.

He helped foster a smooth transition from Korda to Browne and with Wright pinpointed McRae as the ideal coach.

Malthouse said Licuria ?deserves a hell of a lot of credit for going through a very detailed process in getting the right person?.

?I spoke to Paul and he spoke to me about certain things and in his mind he thought McRae was the one to get the best out of this group,? he said.

?So Licuria has been the winner and then you have what appears to be a very settled group and a settled board ? and you?ve just gotta have that. The players have rallied. You can just see that they just enjoy playing. They like the game style because they helped develop it.

?They?ve given their supporters two bloody great years.?

The McRae appointment, announced in September 2021, closed out one of the most exhaustive coaching selection processes in the club?s history.

The subcommittee compiled a list of more than 90 senior and assistant coaches in the AFL and state leagues before it was whittled down to McRae.

The low key, inclusive but fiercely competitive McRae had a compelling two-decade CV, but was decidedly ?off-Broadway? compared to the Leigh Matthews, Tony Shaw, Malthouse and Buckley signings.

REBUILDING THE SPINE

Browne?s ?first recruit? in the Magpies? rebuild was former AFL staffer Nadine Rabah, the club?s communications chief, who steered the response to controversies involving Jordan De Goey and Jack Ginnivan.

?She was the league?s brightest star, very capable and has a huge future,? Browne said.

?We needed to get on top of the comms.?

Next came the hiring of former Nine executive Ian Paterson as chief commercial officer.

?Our business wasn?t performing as well as the biggest club in the AFL should. We needed to straighten up all the revenue lines and improve our sponsor relations,? he said.

?When I was managing director of the Nine Network, Ian ran all the sponsorships and commercial partnerships for the London (Summer) and Vancouver (Winter) Olympics. We knew what he could do with sponsors and how to look after them at events.?

Browne convinced Paterson to relocate his family from Sydney to Melbourne but luring Kelly ? the founder and boss of sports management empire TLA ? was the game-changer.

Buckley said Kelly?s decision to return to the Magpies was ?huge?.

?At some point it was always in the back of his mind and in his heart that he would love to come back and help the place. And I think he feels like he really can,? Buckley said.

But Kelly?s senior role at TLA was a sticking point.

?We needed someone capable of running a high-performance team and at the same time remain well liked in the industry ? and I knew that person was Ned,? Browne said.

?He was obviously engaged by TLA and technically wasn?t able to speak to me until just before last Christmas, but he and I have been friends for 35 years, so we met and talked about things that friends talk about. I had a lot of friendly discussions with him and things got friendlier and friendlier.

?Ned?s knowledge of the industry is unsurpassed. His connections, his associations and ability to be able to call people. He could see what I wanted to do.

?So we brought those people in (Kelly, Paterson and Rabah), but I also assessed everyone who was there.

?I knew we had the right coach (McRae) and I knew we had the right footy manager (Wright). And the teams that assemble around those two positions are really for those two people to manage.?

Collingwood is on track to break the all-time AFL membership record and has renewed its deal with La Trobe Financial, while Browne met recently with the head of Emirates Airlines in Dubai over an extension of its partnership.

?I went through methodically and rebuilt the spine of that business,? Browne said.

?I ramped up the membership effort and promised 100,000 members and we got there.?

On his relationship with City Hall, Browne said: ?By not lambasting them in the press, I know when I have a real problem I can go and sit in front of them and get a good hearing.?

A board subcommittee is also working on an overhaul of Collingwood?s constitution with input from Galbally and other members.

?It was a total mess and that is being fixed,? Galbally said.

On the field, Darcy Moore took over as captain in late January and five players ? Tom Mitchell, Bobby Hill, Dan McStay, Oleg Markov and Billy Frampton ? were astutely traded in or recruited over summer.

?They were all targeted recruits, which just shows method,? Browne said.

The Magpies also brought in high performance manager Jarrod Wade ? whom Mason Cox dubs ?Coach Beard? of Ted Lasso fame ? who has played a key role in the past two seasons in making Collingwood one of the fittest and fastest finishing teams in the competition.

DARCY AND ?DO BETTER?

Even before he was appointed captain in January, Darcy Moore was one of the driving forces for change at Collingwood.

In the days after the leaking of the Do Better report, Moore organised Collingwood?s athletes to pen an open letter beginning with the word ?sorry? to address the club?s record on racism.

?We had a problem with racism at the club,? Browne said.

?We did the ?Do Better? report and it was really important that we got on and implemented those recommendations ? that was critical ? and the board and administration drove that really hard.?

Moore and Browne attended a traditional Indigenous healing ceremony at Victoria Park in April to honour the 30-year anniversary of Nicky Winmar?s 1993 stand against racism.

?The whole ?Do Better? (report) has turned from being a huge liability to a real positive because it has become a blueprint for the way forward,? Darcy?s father, club great Peter Moore said.

?I?ve been very impressed with Jeff Browne and highly recommended him to take the position of presidency.

?The board is very stable, low-key and well managed.

?One of (Darcy?s) big strengths is that he has that compassion for others and he is a deep thinker who understands all those social issues which are so important and also the importance of culture and creating a great environment for everyone.?

[angelopetraglia]

PART Two

JEFF AND EDDIE

Browne and McGuire are lifelong friends, but the former Magpies boss has kept his distance since his exit, although he is still a regular at games.

“Ed’s very happy for the club and enjoying our success,” Browne said.

“We talk about the club but he doesn’t give me any advice. He respects the new broom. There are different styles for different times.”

1990 premiership captain Tony Shaw has great admiration for what McGuire did for the club, but adheres to the belief that anything longer than a 10-year stint in a coaching or administrative role is too long.

“It’s like Leigh Matthews always said ‘10 years at any club – even as a coach – is probably enough’,” Shaw said.

“You see a lot of people hang on for too long. What Ed has done for the club has been incredible. But let’s not kid ourselves, you have to keep refreshing things and they have done that pretty well.

“Browney has done a good job. He and Eddie are two completely different blokes. They have the same drive and the same ambitions, but they do it in different ways.”

Browne and director Jodie Sizer, who said she would never work on a board with him as the dispute raged, are now allies.

“Jodie will say to you now that she said that because she didn’t know me,” Browne said.

“We are not only very good colleagues but we are also very good friends.”

EGO IS A DIRTY WORD

The view from some within Collingwood, and even detractors outside the club, is that ego has sometimes conspired to weigh the Magpies down.

Even Buckley said this week: “Maybe ego has been an issue, but I think we have balanced it now because you don’t want to remove ego altogether because then it doesn’t matter to you.

“Browne, Wright, Kelly, McRae – they seem to have found the right balance.”

Asked if ego was a factor under his regime, Browne said: “There are no ‘out of control egos’ at Collingwood. If there is, I can’t see them and if I find them, I will deal with them.”

On Thursday night, Collingwood takes on Melbourne in a qualifying final.

Malthouse said of the premiership race: “They should win it. It’s theirs to lose, quite frankly.

“They have a deep midfield, good depth outside of the 22, their backline is miserly and they are very aggressive in their running capabilities. And the forward line is a businessman’s forward line. It’s very much structured on six players and not one, and that’s a bonus coming into finals.”

For all of his business success, Browne’s passion for Collingwood remains the same as when he was a kid growing up in the Magpie heartland of Watsonia.

“The next four weeks is about the footy but you’ve got to get everything right to create the best environment for your athletes to perform at their best,” Browne said. “We have got the right coaching group, we’ve got a playing group that can achieve at the highest level and I know they will give their very best.

“But what burns in my memory is not that we were 17th on the ladder when I took over, it was that we lost to Sydney by a f***ing point in the preliminary final last year – and I reckon that burns in everyone’s hearts and minds at Collingwood.

“That is one of the things that motivates us.”

[angelopetraglia]

Very interesting piece on the Pies and how making wholesale chnages created what they have achieved in the last two years. It is a super interesitng read in the context of what our club is currently facing and also builds on the Buckley interview yesterday that I also found to be also fascinating.

There is no doubt that Eddie stayed too long and was creating a raft of issues towards the end of of his reign, mainly due to hubris. A football club is bigger than any individual.

[FrediKanoute]

Sometimes change is necessary. When things aren't working its necessary. I was happy with a tinkering, Bevo and the admin deserved time to right the ship, but what concerns me most about how we have finished is the excuses.

1) not enough good players on the list;
2) players not putting in for long enough;
3) too much reliant on too few;
4) lack of effort; and
5) the soft cap.

FFS, how did we get this so wrong in the space of 6 months. I can accept excuses if you are not in a position to change that, but if club's admin is very much in a position to drive change, it chooses not to. These are the players and the game plan that the current coaching and recruitment team have put together. It its not working ask the question why?

I see the Bulldogs very much like where Spurs were last season under Conte. A coach with a dogmatic game plan that he refused to flex. A game plan that was ineffective; unable to properly executed; and ultimately led to complete failure (including some embarrassing losses). The results saw Spurs lose there generational player, Harry Kane. Under a new coach with a different philosophy having added 3 players to the starting squad they have won2, drawn 1 and are playing a more competitive, attractive and positive style of football. Players who were maligned as have been resurrected as messiah's. Players are being played in positions where they can excel rather than positions the rigid system dictates and those players who don't fit are being sold/traded out.

The Collingwood experience clearly shows that its possible to effect change quickly. I don't think for a moment that we are where Collingwood was. I think, unlike Bevo that we have a list that is strong, not without deficiencies, but strong. What we do have though are some selfish ego's and inflexible members of the playing and non-playing group who are unwilling to sacrifice for the bigger picture. Is it any surprise that we outplayed Geelong with Chilli up forward and Lobb in the ruck? Yes Chilli is the All Australian ruckman, but he would be far more effective for us as a 2nd ruck/forward. It would free Naughton to the backline to fix a deficiency there and play Sweet (who as a ruckman is better than Lobb) in a role that suits him. This doesn't happen because we hear that Chilli want to be primarily a ruck, Naughton wont go back and Bevo stubbornly sticks to his rigid plan. The result is a bloke playing out of his skin in the 2's is constantly overlooked; a bloke not cutting the mustard in the 1's gets gifted games; Chilli becomes All Australian padding out his pay packet on his next contract renewal; Naughton kicks 40 odd goals, but the team struggles to defend a score; and we miss the finals.

We wonder why the playing group isn't happy?

[Mantis]

The Collingwood experience clearly shows that its possible to effect change quickly. I don't think for a moment that we are where Collingwood was. I think, unlike Bevo that we have a list that is strong, not without deficiencies, but strong. What we do have though are some selfish ego's and inflexible members of the playing and non-playing group who are unwilling to sacrifice for the bigger picture. Is it any surprise that we outplayed Geelong with Chilli up forward and Lobb in the ruck? Yes Chilli is the All Australian ruckman, but he would be far more effective for us as a 2nd ruck/forward. It would free Naughton to the backline to fix a deficiency there and play Sweet (who as a ruckman is better than Lobb) in a role that suits him. This doesn't happen because we hear that Chilli want to be primarily a ruck, Naughton wont go back and Bevo stubbornly sticks to his rigid plan. The result is a bloke playing out of his skin in the 2's is constantly overlooked; a bloke not cutting the mustard in the 1's gets gifted games; Chilli becomes All Australian padding out his pay packet on his next contract renewal; Naughton kicks 40 odd goals, but the team struggles to defend a score; and we miss the finals.

We wonder why the playing group isn't happy?

I'm not sure that's the case.

We ranked 5th best in terms of points against this season.
We ranked 10th best in terms of points for this season.

Given all the personnel issues this year I thought the defence held up pretty well and whilst Naughton's intercept marking would be an asset behind the ball, I'm concerned about how he would go distributing the ball.

[D Mitchell]

Good last few posts. Is the 3 tall forwards, or at least the way the play, and the skill sets required of ruckman in need of a rethink ? The 3 compete against each other as much as against opposition defenders and a ruckman who could release the mids with the ball more than compensate for fewer marks around the ground.

[jeemak]

I'm not sure that's the case.

We ranked 5th best in terms of points against this season.
We ranked 10th best in terms of points for this season.

Given all the personnel issues this year I thought the defence held up pretty well and whilst Naughton's intercept marking would be an asset behind the ball, I'm concerned about how he would go distributing the ball.

It's absolute nightmare fuel.

All advocates for him moving back, of which I was one at times need to watch closely when he gets the ball behind centre and attemps to "create". It's frightful stuff, and his ego doesn't allow him to keep things simple.

Aaron is a major fan of Aaron and his abilities, and that's OK, but unfortunately it often means he thinks he should be the one to take the kick, use the footy. It's better that happens closer to our goals than those of the opposition.

[Rocco Jones]

The extreme lack of pressure we put on opponents kicking inside 50 makes it a lot more difficult for our backline.

[Danjul]

Good last few posts. Is the 3 tall forwards, or at least the way the play, and the skill sets required of ruckman in need of a rethink ? The 3 compete against each other as much as against opposition defenders and a ruckman who could release the mids with the ball more than compensate for fewer marks around the ground.
In 2021 English took 9 marks in a game twice. They were his best marking games.

On both occasions he was playing as second ruck.

In the 4 finals that year he took a total of 9 marks.
Naughton took 21 and Schache took 19. They were our two best in the marking category for that set of games.

It is a myth that English takes marks because he is in the ruck. He takes marks because, usually, he is fantastic at taking marks.

Even against Geelong in the last game of the season, after he was moved out of first ruck, he still took marks. Some resulting in important goals. (On 7 occasions in 2023, one third of games, he had less than 5 while only playing as ruck).

[ledge]

In 2021 English took 9 marks in a game twice. They were his best marking games.

On both occasions he was playing as second ruck.

In the 4 finals that year he took a total of 9 marks.
Naughton took 21 and Schache took 19. They were our two best in the marking category for that set of games.

It is a myth that English takes marks because he is in the ruck. He takes marks because, usually, he is fantastic at taking marks.

Even against Geelong in the last game of the season, after he was moved out of first ruck, he still took marks. Some resulting in important goals. (On 7 occasions in 2023, one third of games, he had less than 5 while only playing as ruck).

You can’t take marks when your ruck because you where the ball is , to take marks you have to play one kick from the ruck which IMO he is best at. If you’re old enough you would remember the great Gary Dempsey , he would take the centre bounce then go straight to CHB and cut anything off . He was a great reader of the play. English is the same type of player . Sweet should be playing and as the tap ruck , strong body which is what English lacks against hard ruckman.

[Rocket Science]

It's real chef's kiss stuff that we can't send our current full-forward to the backline because he's a horrendous kick.

Couldn't we mitigate his flaws by foot by having Richards, Dale, Daniel & Johannisen religiously swinging past for the quick give?

[bornadog]

It's real chef's kiss stuff that we can't send our current full-forward to the backline because he's a horrendous kick.

Couldn't we mitigate his flaws by foot by having Richards, Dale, Daniel & Johannisen religiously swinging past for the quick give?

There is no proof that Naughton would be a better backman than a forward. He has proven that he is a dangerous FF, and good FF are hard to come by.

[Grantysghost]

There is no proof that Naughton would be a better backman than a forward. He has proven that he is a dangerous FF, and good FF are hard to come by.

Marra will overtake him shortly.

[JanLorMill]

Given all the personnel issues this year I thought the defence held up pretty well and whilst Naughton's intercept marking would be an asset behind the ball, I'm concerned about how he would go distributing the ball.
He is better at it than Gardner. Keath isnt great either and JOD hasn?t shown he has that ability yet. Jones is 50/50.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

There is no proof that Naughton would be a better backman than a forward. He has proven that he is a dangerous FF, and good FF are hard to come by.

Compared to the great full forwards over the years, Naughton is a very poor kick for goal. Has the pace, agility and high marking to be an outstanding centre half forward which would leave English and Lobb to interchange at full forward.
The combination of English and Naughton as key forwards would be hard to beat.

[ledge]

Compared to the great full forwards over the years, Naughton is a very poor kick for goal. Has the pace, agility and high marking to be an outstanding centre half forward which would leave English and Lobb to interchange at full forward.
The combination of English and Naughton as key forwards would be hard to beat.

We do have Darcy coming through and he can play either end .

[bornadog]

Compared to the great full forwards over the years, Naughton is a very poor kick for goal. Has the pace, agility and high marking to be an outstanding centre half forward which would leave English and Lobb to interchange at full forward.
The combination of English and Naughton as key forwards would be hard to beat.

Plus Jamarra on the improve

[AshMac]

There is no proof that Naughton would be a better backman than a forward. He has proven that he is a dangerous FF, and good FF are hard to come by.

We saw what he is capable of in his first year of footy - came 4th in our B&F. I think he?d be a 5x AA CHB by now. Agree though that moving him doesn?t mean he goes back as an AA player. Likely there be a period of adjustment and dogs fans patience is razor thin - do wonder if there is actually an appetite for it.

[GVGjr]

There is no proof that Naughton would be a better backman than a forward. He has proven that he is a dangerous FF, and good FF are hard to come by.

We've seen what he can do as a forward and it's pretty good but he's not elite in that area. Great mark but below average performer with his set shots etc. While to me there is no indication that he couldn't be a very good defender what keeps him as a forward in my opinion is he really wants to be a forward more than a defender. If we want him to re-sign with us he's going to want to primarily be as a key forward.

It looks like Darcy will have to move to the back half.

[Danjul]

Compared to the great full forwards over the years, Naughton is a very poor kick for goal. Has the pace, agility and high marking to be an outstanding centre half forward which would leave English and Lobb to interchange at full forward.
The combination of English and Naughton as key forwards would be hard to beat.
This was said in2021. This worked in 2021. But we cannot use it now because it is not 2021. We need a more modern plan.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'd be pushing Naughton to CHF as it plays to his strengths. Great athlete who could run back hard into the 50 too. Put the onus on Marra and Lobb to be our 'finishers' aka deeper forwards. Lobb finished the year well and we started looking for him more.

Naughton should essentially play the Carey and Riewoldt type role. Work up to the wings, be an option for our half backs, push hard I50 when the chance presents.

Will still kick his goals, but I think he becomes too stationary and easy to play against when he plays deep. Needless to say, he'll never be a reliable finisher anyway.

[jeemak]

I'd be pushing Naughton to CHF as it plays to his strengths. Great athlete who could run back hard into the 50 too. Put the onus on Marra and Lobb to be our 'finishers' aka deeper forwards. Lobb finished the year well and we started looking for him more.

Naughton should essentially play the Carey and Riewoldt type role. Work up to the wings, be an option for our half backs, push hard I50 when the chance presents.

Will still kick his goals, but I think he becomes too stationary and easy to play against when he plays deep. Needless to say, he'll never be a reliable finisher anyway.

Notwithstanding my post earlier in the thread, he's actually reasonable at getting separation after a lead up mark and kicking to the overlap forward. CHF is about as far up the ground I'd play him.

[kruder]

Might need to change this thread to blunt axes at the kennel a little surprised that we haven't seen more change yet. Surely we aren't changing a few assistants and fitness staff and hoping for the best?

[Vred]

Might need to change this thread to blunt axes at the kennel a little surprised that we haven't seen more change yet. Surely we aren't changing a few assistants and fitness staff and hoping for the best?

That's exactly what will be happening from what I'm being told.

Also sounds like Grant will be staying on, so all 3 of Ameet, Bevo and Grant stay.

If next year is a failure we know exactly who to blame.

[azabob]

If there are no major off field changes surely the board will provide the members and supporters an insight into what the "review" found.

[ledge]

Is it is bad as they say it is?
We lost a few games by under a goal.
Yes we expected to make finals and it’s unacceptable we didn’t.
We did have bad luck in games as well losing players at critical times.
Do we need to make big changes ?
In retrospect we were what Collingwood were last year except we lost the close ones.
We trained out of our home most of the year.
I am just looking at it at another angle .

[GVGjr]

That's exactly what will be happening from what I'm being told.

Also sounds like Grant will be staying on, so all 3 of Ameet, Bevo and Grant stay.

If next year is a failure we know exactly who to blame.

I don't think many would be surprised by the likely scenario that Bains, Beveridge and Grant will all be at the club next year.
Bains is overseeing a huge upgrade to the WO and his job would be to grow the membership base and to attract sponsors. By most measures he would be seen to have done a terrific job but now has to help to get our on field results back to a more successful level.

Beveridge has a two year deal in front of him and despite a poor season the club will endeavor to work through the challenges with him. We also need to consider that in the unlikely scenario that we were to part with him that any payout would have to be funded from the footy department which would have a significant impact.

Grant has started to impose his view on how the footy department will be set-up going forward and is slowly wrestling some control from Beveridge. That was never going to be an easy task so there will be an adjustment period. Setting up the footy department for success is the challenge in front of him.

There were a few reasons that contributed to our poor season and it's now really important that the 3 of them get things sorted.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I don't think many would be surprised by the likely scenario that Bains, Beveridge and Grant will all be at the club next year.
Bains is overseeing a huge upgrade to the WO and his job would be to grow the membership base and to attract sponsors. By most measures he would be seen to have done a terrific job but now has to help to get our on field results back to a more successful level.

Beveridge has a two year deal in front of him and despite a poor season the club will endeavor to work through the challenges with him. We also need to consider that in the unlikely scenario that we were to part with him that any payout would have to be funded from the footy department which would have a significant impact.

Grant has started to impose his view on how the footy department will be set-up going forward and is slowly wrestling some control from Beveridge. That was never going to be an easy task so there will be an adjustment period. Setting up the footy department for success is the challenge in front of him.

There were a few reasons that contributed to our poor season and it's now really important that the 3 of them get things sorted.
I agree. I honestly think we were not far off it this year. But something happened 3/4 the way through. The Jones injury. That aside things would have been a lot different if Smith had finished off the year as he started it. Grant, Bevo and Power really need to sort this situation out as I?m not sure that this group of players will play consistent footy while we have so much noise around Bailey Smith

JUH, Arty, JOD, West and Scott all have the potential for massive improvement in them. Add back in a fit JJ, Jones, Lobb and we are a top 4 side.

We just need a tough speedy mid and to kick straight. Simple really isn?t it

[Vred]

As I'm told, Bevo has taken a significant pay cut in this next contract, allowing for us to chase the assistant coaches and football department staff we need for success, so for all his failures this year as a coach, at least we have that to look to as a plus side.

[bornadog]

As I'm told, Bevo has taken a significant pay cut in this next contract, allowing for us to chase the assistant coaches and football department staff we need for success, so for all his failures this year as a coach, at least we have that to look to as a plus side.

That is the sort of person Bevo is.

[MrMahatma]

Is it is bad as they say it is?
We lost a few games by under a goal.
Yes we expected to make finals and it’s unacceptable we didn’t.
We did have bad luck in games as well losing players at critical times.
Do we need to make big changes ?
In retrospect we were what Collingwood were last year except we lost the close ones.
We trained out of our home most of the year.
I am just looking at it at another angle .

I actually think this is close to it. Agree we lost close ones and if you flip even 3 of those we're all on here expecting a finals win on the weekend. Injury didn't help in the GWS loss, and some poor kicking cost us vs Hawks and possibly others. Swans? Losing to WC is unacceptable no matter the circumstances though.

So I think it's not as bad as it might seem, but not as good either. Winning the close matches would sort the ladder out but would we be a genuine premiership threat? Are we gonna beat the Lions at home this year?

We definitely need a review. We definitely need some change.

We've already moved on 2 assistant coaches and sounds like our fitness guy. Change is happening.

I'm already feeling good about next season.

[MrMahatma]

As I'm told, Bevo has taken a significant pay cut in this next contract, allowing for us to chase the assistant coaches and football department staff we need for success, so for all his failures this year as a coach, at least we have that to look to as a plus side.

I think this is awesome from Bevo, plus complete madness that he has to do that while the suits at Head Office count their bonuses.

[Grantysghost]

I think this is awesome from Bevo, plus complete madness that he has to do that while the suits at Head Office count their bonuses.

I can't see Bevo doing that and nor should he.

[GVGjr]

As I'm told, Bevo has taken a significant pay cut in this next contract, allowing for us to chase the assistant coaches and football department staff we need for success, so for all his failures this year as a coach, at least we have that to look to as a plus side.

It speaks a bit about the quality of Bevo and his intentions for the club if that is true. Some other coaches jumped on that a couple of years back and if it means we pick up some extra resources then that has to help.

[Grantysghost]

It speaks a bit about the quality of Bevo and his intentions for the club if that is true. Some other coaches jumped on that a couple of years back and if it means we pick up some extra resources then that has to help.

Less money or restructure of contract. Why on earth should he do the former? I mean, I get he's a nice guy and probably a liberal it's unlikely he's got a copy of Das Kapital under his pillow though.

[hujsh]

Less money or restructure of contract. Why on earth should he do the former? I mean, I get he's a nice guy and probably a liberal it's unlikely he's got a copy of Das Kapital under his pillow though.

Maybe the deal is Bevo gets paid less but does less work and has a better quality of life? Sometimes the money means less if you can't enjoy it due to working 24/7 most of the year

[Grantysghost]

Maybe the deal is Bevo gets paid less but does less work and has a better quality of life? Sometimes the money means less if you can't enjoy it due to working 24/7 most of the year

Yep that makes sense to me. He went from awesome chopper to weird librarian in the space of a year.
He needs some Bevo time.

[angelopetraglia]

Sam Edmund

"The board and CEO are united that (football boss) Chris Grant is staying on at the Dogs - but he was reviewed hard."

[bulldogtragic]

Sam Edmund

"The board and CEO are united that (football boss) Chris Grant is staying on at the Dogs - but he was reviewed hard."

You keep a job.
You keep a job!
Everybody keeps a job!

(Inaudible whispers)

Oh, sorry Rohan. You’re still fired. But everybody else, you keep a job!

[hujsh]

Sam Edmund

"The board and CEO are united that (football boss) Chris Grant is staying on at the Dogs - but he was reviewed hard."

I'm gonna review you so hard when we get home Granty, just you wait

[bulldogtragic]

I'm gonna review you so hard when we get home Granty, just you wait

Hard review in deed.

1200

[Go_Dogs]

Sam Edmund

"The board and CEO are united that (football boss) Chris Grant is staying on at the Dogs - but he was reviewed hard."

Weird.

Review already done?

[Grantysghost]

Weird.

Review already done?

Done, and done... Hard.

This is how I see the Grant review going.


https://youtu.be/keehKz711Kc?feature=shared

[whythelongface]

Wondering if the Hard Review is in the same format as Hard Quiz. Tom Gleeson stands up in front of those being reviewed and asks them a series of ‘Hard’ questions on their functional area. The questions are multiple choice and you only need a pass to retain your job. If you buzz in early on someone else’s functional area and score more points than them you have the opportunity to take on their role. A pretty thorough process that will fill supporters with confidence that the club is heading in the right direction.

[jeemak]

His review hole must be tender.

Edmund's comment had a particular thirst to it..........

[bulldogtragic]

Sammy breaking the hard review transcript:

Ameet: Under 'strengths', you've just put 'footy'.
Chris : Yeah.

Ameet: That's your job, though. I was sort of looking for your skills within the job so is there anything else you could put there. Okay.

Under 'weaknesses', you've put 'eczema'.

You've left this section blank. You haven't done the Q&A.
Chris: I thought you filled that in.

Ameet: No. This is aimed at you. 'To what extent do you believe that you have the skills and knowledge to perform your job effectively?' And then you tick one of the boxes - 'Not at all. To some extent. Very much so. Don't know. 'What would you tick?
Chris: Don't know

Ameet: OK. Question 2. 'Do you feel you have received adequate training to use your computer effectively?'
Chris: What are the options?

Ameet: Same as before. They're always the same. 'Not at all. To some extent. Very much so. Don't know.
Chris: Don't know.

Ameet: Don't know again. OK. 'Do you feel you are given the flexibility to decide how to accomplish your goals?' Do you want the options again?
Chris: Yeah

Ameet: Not at all. To some extent. It's always the same, Very much so. Don't know. Always the same.
Chris: Don't know

Ameet: If 'Don't know' wasn't there, what would you put?
Chris: What are the options?

Ameet: Not at all. To some extent. Very much so. Don't know.
Chris: Very much so.

Ameet: Do you remember the question?
Chris: No

Ameet: Do you... We're going to leave that there.


Review completed.

[Grantysghost]

Ha very good.

[kruder]

It's going to get very interesting if we start poorly again, its a bold move from the club to keep everyone from Bevo and above unchanged. I'm guessing management now think that our list is the main issue?

[1eyedog]

It's going to get very interesting if we start poorly again, its a bold move from the club to keep everyone from Bevo and above unchanged. I'm guessing management now think that our list is the main issue?

Whose fault is that?

[GVGjr]

It's going to get very interesting if we start poorly again, its a bold move from the club to keep everyone from Bevo and above unchanged. I'm guessing management now think that our list is the main issue?

Pressure will start to mount up if we don't get off to a strong start. Until the Footscray season is over we won't get a strong view on how they rate the list and how many players they will delist/trade.

We clearly rated the list 12 months ago and brought in experienced players to top it off but we didn't get the development from the more marginal players and competition for spots wasn't as strong as expected.

Making an honest and accurate assessment of the playing list and the gaps is critical leading into the trade and draft periods. That will be the challenge for us.

Are there some early signs that we've grown up a bit and come to a realization that we don't have the right structure in place?
By letting Rohan Smith go even knowing that Marc Webb was also a likely departure may not have been something we would have been prepared to do 12 months ago. If we make some hard calls with our list management departures it could be a sign that we are taking a harder or dare I say a sharper edge to our axe.

[dukedog]

sammy breaking the hard review transcript:

Ameet: Under 'strengths', you've just put 'footy'.
Chris : Yeah.

Ameet: That's your job, though. I was sort of looking for your skills within the job so is there anything else you could put there. Okay.

Under 'weaknesses', you've put 'eczema'.

You've left this section blank. You haven't done the q&a.
Chris: I thought you filled that in.

Ameet: No. This is aimed at you. 'to what extent do you believe that you have the skills and knowledge to perform your job effectively?' and then you tick one of the boxes - 'not at all. To some extent. Very much so. Don't know. 'what would you tick?
Chris: Don't know

ameet: Ok. Question 2. 'do you feel you have received adequate training to use your computer effectively?'
chris: What are the options?

Ameet: Same as before. They're always the same. 'not at all. To some extent. Very much so. Don't know.
Chris: Don't know.

Ameet: Don't know again. Ok. 'do you feel you are given the flexibility to decide how to accomplish your goals?' do you want the options again?
Chris: Yeah

ameet: Not at all. To some extent. It's always the same, very much so. Don't know. Always the same.
Chris: Don't know

ameet: If 'don't know' wasn't there, what would you put?
Chris: What are the options?

Ameet: Not at all. To some extent. Very much so. Don't know.
Chris: Very much so.

Ameet: Do you remember the question?
Chris: No

ameet: Do you... We're going to leave that there.


Review completed.


gold!

[azabob]

gold!

Well it was written by one of this generations sharpest comedic minds.

[azabob]

[QUOTE=GVGjr;864200]
We clearly rated the list 12 months ago and brought in experienced players to top it off but we didn't get the development from the more marginal players and competition for spots wasn't as strong as expected.

At a guess it seems we are going to cut a lot of the marginal players which I must admit I am pleasantly surprised about.

[hujsh]

Well it was written by one of this generations sharpest comedic minds.

Before it got comedic brain worms

[bulldogsthru&thru]

So was the "review" another internal one?

[azabob]

So was the "review" another internal one?

Correct. That was confirmed after the West Coast game. It started during they bye period.

[bornadog]

So was the "review" another internal one?

You don't need an external person to review one persons role.

For me, an external review would be to look at the footy department structure including reporting lines, roles and responsibilities etc.

The positions can then be filled according to the review.

[Topdog]

You don't need an external person to review one persons role.

For me, an external review would be to look at the footy department structure including reporting lines, roles and responsibilities etc.

The positions can then be filled according to the review.

One of the purposes of an external review is that everyone can speak openly without fear of blowback. It very much cab be beneficial for individual roles and how internal people actually view that person.

[mjp]

I am happy for whatever review the club wants to do.

BUT.

The blow-back if we do what is seen/perceived as a purely internal review and start season 2024 poorly is going to be something else. An external review would - at the very least - buy some time.

It does seem every year there is a 'target' the media 'go for' from the start of the year...I suspect next year it is going to be us. Unless Collingwood choke in the finals again. If that happens, it will be them.

[bornadog]

I am happy for whatever review the club wants to do.

BUT.

The blow-back if we do what is seen/perceived as a purely internal review and start season 2024 poorly is going to be something else. An external review would - at the very least - buy some time.

It does seem every year there is a 'target' the media 'go for' from the start of the year...I suspect next year it is going to be us. Unless Collingwood choke in the finals again. If that happens, it will be them.

or Brisbane who can't seem to get past a Prelim

[Topdog]

or Brisbane who can't seem to get past a Prelim

Media don't care about Brisbane, NSW and QLD teams get a free pass.

[Mofra]

or Brisbane who can't seem to get past a Prelim
They'll get a home prelim this year.
Unfortunately for them, the GF is played at the MCG

[azabob]

They'll get a home prelim this year.
Unfortunately for them, the GF is played at the MCG

Is the MCG really a hoodoo for them? Personally I think it is now a non issue.

They beat Melbourne in a knock out final last year and should have beaten them there this year.

[josie]

I’d rather smug Dees win again, even the Blues (shudder) than having barbie Ken receive a premiership medal.

Hoping Pies win it as they are a joy to watch and I like their coach and a lot of their players.

Still bitter? Yep.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I’d rather smug Dees win again, even the Blues (shudder) than having barbie Ken receive a premiership medal.

Hoping Pies win it as they are a joy to watch and I like their coach and a lot of their players.

Still bitter? Yep.

I had to think about who you meant for a minute there. Ken Hinkley is no barbie and we've got no bitterness towards the power.

Then it clicked.

[MrMahatma]

I’d rather smug Dees win again, even the Blues (shudder) than having barbie Ken receive a premiership medal.

Hoping Pies win it as they are a joy to watch and I like their coach and a lot of their players.

Still bitter? Yep.

Nah, I'm on the Lions from here. Heading there Sat night.

Also happy with anyone except Dees.

[Axe Man]

Can anyone decipher what Barrett is on about in the last sentence?

IF ...
you want a one-line summary on what is happening with the Western Bulldogs' football department review ...

THEN ...
the club, belatedly, is attempting to empower people to challenge the coach. The non-footy part of operations should then try the same approach with the same person.

[Grantysghost]

Can anyone decipher what Barrett is on about in the last sentence?

IF ...
you want a one-line summary on what is happening with the Western Bulldogs' football department review ...

THEN ...
the club, belatedly, is attempting to empower people to challenge the coach. The non-footy part of operations should then try the same approach with the same person.

I'm guessing he's saying the exec need to challenge Bevo?

[mjp]

Can anyone decipher what Barrett is on about in the last sentence?

IF ...
you want a one-line summary on what is happening with the Western Bulldogs' football department review ...

THEN ...
the club, belatedly, is attempting to empower people to challenge the coach. The non-footy part of operations should then try the same approach with the same person.

He's implying Bevo is having an undue influence in non-footy areas of the club and people are 'afraid' to question him.

My guess is that he's referring to Baines.

[Axe Man]

He's implying Bevo is having an undue influence in non-footy areas of the club and people are 'afraid' to question him.

My guess is that he's referring to Baines.

What non-footy areas would Bevo be influencing? Is he deciding whether we get a scarf or a cap or a voucher in our member packs?

[SquirrelGrip]

What non-footy areas would Bevo be influencing? Is he deciding whether we get a scarf or a cap or a voucher in our member packs?

Maybe he's getting involved in selecting who from the crowd runs Race the Rocket each week?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Maybe he's getting involved in selecting who from the crowd runs Race the Rocket each week?

The man must be stopped.

What's James Sherry doing these days?

[ledge]

How about we hire a bad cop . Bevo can be the loving coach and good cop then we get in say a John Northey type bad cop who will give a hell of a spray when needed.

[angelopetraglia]

Do we beleive anything that Barrett has to say about Bevo? He is completely compromised due to their infamous run it at the Crown Casino toilets and his personal hatred of Bevo runs very, very deep. Barrett is not in a neautral position on anything to do with Bevo.

I just dismiss anything he says.

[Grantysghost]

What non-footy areas would Bevo be influencing? Is he deciding whether we get a scarf or a cap or a voucher in our member packs?

He's taken over from Danny doing the banner.

[Axe Man]

He's taken over from Danny doing the banner.

If that's true I'm on the sack Bevo bandwagon, the banners these days are deplorable!

[bulldogsthru&thru]

If that's true I'm on the sack Bevo bandwagon, the banners these days are deplorable!

I think even BAD would join the bandwagon if it's true.

[azabob]

Do we beleive anything that Barrett has to say about Bevo? He is completely compromised due to their infamous run it at the Crown Casino toilets and his personal hatred of Bevo runs very, very deep. Barrett is not in a neautral position on anything to do with Bevo.

I just dismiss anything he says.

Out of interest AP, what outside criticism do you accept of the club?

[Critter]

Maybe he's suggesting that the CEO and board hold the coach more directly to account for on-field success. The same as David Koch holds Ken Hinkley accountable and as Campbell Rose tried on Rodney Eade. Though the latter didn't end that well.

[angelopetraglia]

Out of interest AP, what outside criticism do you accept of the club?

It is a legitmate and good question.

I don't like the sensationalist side of what Footy Classified and the SEN characthers bring (Caro, Cornes, Barrett etc.). It is always important to understand what the jouranlists intent is and what is driving their perspective. With a fair degree of confidence you would have to say in particular Cornes and Barrett (and to a lesser dergree Caro) have made their attacks on the club incredibily personal due to their run ins with Bevo, therefore I think their opinion carries less weight as it is compromised.

I do think that some of the recent commentary from Robbo and Rohan to name a couple has been more balanaced and asked some legitimate questions.

[bornadog]

I think even BAD would join the bandwagon if it's true.

What does that mean?

My Philosophy in life is don't believe anything you read and only half of what people tell you.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

What does that mean?

My Philosophy in life is don't believe anything you read and only half of what people tell you.

Don't worry, I'm sure Bevo will continue to do the banners.

[azabob]

It is a legitmate and good question.

I don't like the sensationalist side of what Footy Classified and the SEN characthers bring (Caro, Cornes, Barrett etc.). It is always important to understand what the jouranlists intent is and what is driving their perspective. With a fair degree of confidence you would have to say in particular Cornes and Barrett (and to a lesser dergree Caro) have made their attacks on the club incredibily personal due to their run ins with Bevo, therefore I think their opinion carries less weight as it is compromised.

I do think that some of the recent commentary from Robbo and Rohan to name a couple has been more balanaced and asked some legitimate questions.

I don't disagree with you on Barrett. I can recall Cornes run in with Minson but not with Bevo?
I don't fully dismiss Cornes views as he actually has a good eye for the game, but he has chosen the "volcano" route rather than a serious analyst.

For mine David King gets a very rough go on this forum but each to their own. SEN clickbait him and I'm not sure posters actually dig a bit deeper and listen to the context of the discussion.

Please keep posting these snapshot views that are posted on twitter etc as they create good debate and discussion! (I know you didn't start this one)!

[angelopetraglia]

I don't disagree with you on Barrett. I can recall Cornes run in with Minson but not with Bevo?
!

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/kane-cornes-fires-back-at-luke-beveridges-attack-on-adam-treloar-critics/news-story/cffba31f4442e72ef6792109507054fc

Kane Cornes fires back at Luke Beveridge’s attack on Adam Treloar critics

The Western Bulldogs may be through to the AFL Grand Final and coach Luke Beveridge isn’t going to waste the chance to fire back at criticism.

After the Bulldogs beat the Lions in the semi-final in a one-point classic, the attention turned to midfielder Adam Treloar, when he had just 10 disposals in the close call.

Having been a high profile recruit for the Bulldogs who signed a five-year $4.5m deal with the side after the Collingwood debacle before the season, Beveridge said that Treloar wasn’t fully fit after he struggled against the Lions.

It led to criticism, with Fox Footy’s Jonathan Brown saying Treloar would be “horrified” with vision of him struggling to get involved, while Nick Riewoldt said “he didn’t look himself”.

But former Port Adelaide 300-gamer Kane Cornes said that it looked like Treloar wasn’t happy about where he was playing.

“He looks like he’s spat the dummy a little because he’s not playing midfield” Cornes told Footy Classified earlier in the week. “Some of these examples from the weekend is quite concerning from a player who has an opportunity to win a premiership. It’s not good enough for a player like that.”

But a week makes all the difference and the Bulldogs blew Port Adelaide away with a 17.14 (116) to 6.9 (45) win on Saturday night with a goal and two behinds and 23 disposals in a huge game.

It gave Beveridge all the ammo he needed to unload in his press conference after the win.

“If you’re going to fail in life, fail at something that is noble. Fail at something you can dust yourself off and be proud that you had a go,” Beveridge said. “If you’re failing at trying to pull people apart and bring people down like two or three journalists did this week, I don’t know how people around you can live with you, how they can lie in bed with you, how they can look at themselves in the mirror.

“For a guy like Adam, people know he’s had some challenges over the journey. It was just really poor and vindictive stuff and it was really distasteful. So I was just so happy for him tonight.

“You can imagine the pressure he put himself under. Remember how outstanding he was for our football club in the early stanzas, in the early parts of the year to give us solid grounding up near the top of the ladder.

“He had an average game last week, he didn’t like it and him and I had a really good chat about preparation this week. But what a great night for him to withstand that and give great contribution for his teammates and our footy club. I’m really proud of him and bloody disappointed in a few people that were nasty.”

Cornes, who was one of the most vocal critics, hit back on Sunday.

“I was critical of Adam Treloar’s body language and his performance last week, and I stand by it,” he told Nine’s AFL Sunday Footy Show.

“I’d challenge anyone to go back and look at Adam Treloar’s efforts last week, they were poor, we wouldn’t be doing our job if we didn’t call it out, to the point where he almost gave up in some contests.

“I don’t know if those comments were (aimed) at me. I think it’d be much easier if Luke had the courage to actually name the people he was being critical of. It would seem strange if he would bring my wife into those comments after a game, I’d find that incredibly strange.

“But all good coaches stand up for their players and that’s what he did after one of his most famous wins.”

Footy Show host Tony Jones admitted he was “taken aback” by the comments.

“He’s better than that, Luke Beveridge,” Jones said. “I’m pretty sure if he had his time [again], he probably wouldn’t be as volcanic in his criticism of the criticism of Adam Treloar.”

Damian Barrett said that the ability to create a “world against the Western Bulldogs” mentality was “part of the layers of genius of this man as a coach”.

[bornadog]

I don't disagree with you on Barrett. I can recall Cornes run in with Minson but not with Bevo?
I don't fully dismiss Cornes views as he actually has a good eye for the game, but he has chosen the "volcano" route rather than a serious analyst.

For mine David King gets a very rough go on this forum but each to their own. SEN clickbait him and I'm not sure posters actually dig a bit deeper and listen to the context of the discussion.

Please keep posting these snapshot views that are posted on twitter etc as they create good debate and discussion! (I know you didn't start this one)!

Well this from David King is one reason he gets a hard go:


BULLDOGS ACCUSED OF THE ?ULTIMATE SPIN? AFTER LIST MANAGER'S UGLE-HAGAN, DARCY COMMENTS (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/09/07/bulldogs-accused-of-the-ultimate-spin-after-list-managers-ugle-hagan-darcy/)

David King has laughed off suggestions that the Western Bulldogs? list build has been impacted by needing to bid for Academy prospect Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and father-son prospect Sam Darcy.

The Bulldogs had access to Ugle-Hagan in 2020, who was bid on by Adelaide with the 1st pick in the draft. Then in 2021, Darcy was bid on with pick two by GWS.

Despite being a top eight team, the Dogs received the best key position player in successive drafts.

However, Bulldogs list manager Sam Power believes that needing to match bids for both stars has impacted their depth, given the second and third-round picks absorbed.

?Matching bids with Jamarra and Sam early in drafts has meant that we picked early and picked late,? Power told AFL Media?s Gettable.

?Obviously fantastic bringing those boys in, but we?ve paid maximum for them with where those picks came, so we haven?t had access to certain parts of the draft.?

It comes after the Bulldogs missed the eight in 2023, with question marks from coach Luke Beveridge over the true quality of the list.

David King, however, cannot cop Power?s comments given the incredible priority access the Dogs have had.

?He even had trouble getting those words out,? King told SEN Breakfast.

?He?s trying to tell us that what they paid for Jamarra ? which was pick 29, 33, 41, 52 and 54 ? for the best kid in the draft, was a setback for their list build?

?And then he?s also throwing Sam Darcy in there ? which was pick 32, 34 and 40.

?Now look, that is just the ultimate spin. ?We?ve had to pay overs for those blokes? ? they?re future key position stars!

?Their list build has been hamstrung by having to bid on Jamarra with picks in the 30s? And Sam Darcy has cost them three picks in the 30s? Come on Sam (Power).?

Kane Cornes agrees, adding that a bit of finger pointing is going on at the Dogs.

?You can?t complain about being blessed with one of the great draft free kicks you?ve ever seen,? he said.

?Imagine the team down the bottom hearing that when you?ve got a finals contender getting access to the best players in the draft for not much at all. We?re not copping that.

?There?s a bit of the blame game going on at the Dogs.?

The Bulldogs have been blessed again in 2023, with father-son prospect Jordan Croft available for selection.

AFL Media?s Callum Twomey has Croft, a 201cm key forward, ranked 11th in his phantom form guide for this season.

I mean what a goose. We stumped up early picks for these guys and then the next lot of picks were 55 plus. That is all Sam was saying

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Oh jeez they're a bit daft aren't they? Power is simply pointing out we haven't been able to add depth through the draft due to our 2nd and 3rd rounders needing to be used on JUH and Darcy. Nothing about not bringing in talent. It's pretty simple guys.

[bornadog]

Oh jeez they're a bit daft aren't they? Power is simply pointing out we haven't been able to add depth through the draft due to our 2nd and 3rd rounders needing to be used on JUH and Darcy. Nothing about not bringing in talent. It's pretty simple guys.

That article is exactly why I can't stand the media - just trying to sensationalise things and not reporting facts.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I usually like King, but this is just a dumb and ignorant take.

[jeemak]

The shallow comments from King are wonderful because they're right in Aza's sweet spot of lamentation about our depth.

How will he respond?

[azabob]

The shallow comments from King are wonderful because they're right in Aza's sweet spot of lamentation about our depth.

How will he respond?

Just keep reading the click bait jee and living in your black and white world.

[Grantysghost]

King is the worst of the lot as he tries to deliver his rubbish on the back of long forgotten credibly.

[azabob]

What pre planning did the club do in the draft years leading up to drafting JUH and Darcy?

Surely we expected we would need to use a lot of draft capital to bring them onto our list.

What have we done since to improve our list profile?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

What pre planning did the club do in the draft years leading up to drafting JUH and Darcy?

Surely we expected we would need to use a lot of draft capital to bring them onto our list.

What have we done since to improve our list profile?

The only way to get more 1st or 2nd picks is to trade some decent players. Who would you have been prepared to let go?

Getting more for Dunkley would have been helpful meaning trade him after his first request. If the club is saying they want a younger list profile then the decision to recruit Lobb was mystifying. We both got older and lost a second rounder in the process. It seems the clubs view on our list has changed in the last 12 months. It's disappointing we didn't see it earlier but we can only start from now.

[mjp]

#1: Power isn't wrong and we have talked (a lot) about this (selecting Jamarra and Darcy has compromised our draft hand).
#2: King (and everyone else) is right and we really shouldn't be complaining about finishing near the top of the ladder and getting access to not just 1 but 2 top tier, key position talents.

Honestly, Power would have been well advised not to mention TOO much about this as this was just a case of "you set 'em up, I'll knock 'em down" for the media pundits.

How do you do both? Well...I wouldn't have been doing the stupid show with Cal Twomey if I was him but a few people I know appreciated him going on there so...well, whatchagonnado??

[bornadog]

#1: Power isn't wrong and we have talked (a lot) about this (selecting Jamarra and Darcy has compromised our draft hand).
#2: King (and everyone else) is right and we really shouldn't be complaining about finishing near the top of the ladder and getting access to not just 1 but 2 top tier, key position talents.

Honestly, Power would have been well advised not to mention TOO much about this as this was just a case of "you set 'em up, I'll knock 'em down" for the media pundits.

How do you do both? Well...I wouldn't have been doing the stupid show with Cal Twomey if I was him but a few people I know appreciated him going on there so...well, whatchagonnado??

King is saying we are using the lack of picks as an excuse which is just rubbish. Power was just stating facts.

[mjp]

King is saying we are using the lack of picks as an excuse which is just rubbish. Power was just stating facts.

Well...he was. Sort of.

Having not heard the interview and just read the transcript, it comes across as a:

"well, you know, we would've done more if we hadn't had to commit all our resources to those top picks...".

Like I said mate, Power isn't wrong but it's just not a path I think he should've gone down without expecting this sort of blowback.

[bornadog]

Well...he was. Sort of.

Having not heard the interview and just read the transcript, it comes across as a:

"well, you know, we would've done more if we hadn't had to commit all our resources to those top picks...".

Like I said mate, Power isn't wrong but it's just not a path I think he should've gone down without expecting this sort of blowback.

Maybe listen to the interview.

[Grantysghost]

Maybe listen to the interview.

I'm with you on this bad. I watched it through before Wayne King spewed bile I didn't even stop munching my corn flakes to ponder that.

He never used it as an excuse was just giving an honest answer to a couple of guys he knows pretty well.

[GVGjr]

Well...he was. Sort of.

Having not heard the interview and just read the transcript, it comes across as a:

"well, you know, we would've done more if we hadn't had to commit all our resources to those top picks...".

Like I said mate, Power isn't wrong but it's just not a path I think he should've gone down without expecting this sort of blowback.

Power answered the question I think as well as he could but perhaps he should have been a bit more positive about it because everyone understands that you have to stump up to acquire top end talent.
We also had to invest a bit to get Treloar too the club as well.
We will have to pay a decent price if we are to land the Suns pick 4 if that happens and we will have to do the same to get Croft.
Does it impact other recruiting? Yeah it probably does and I think Power explained it okay without making it into an excuse.

To me it's a real positive to have invested a bit to land Ugle-Hagan, Darcy and Busslinger and this year with Croft but it's also going to take some time to get the return for that investment in talent.

[mjp]

Maybe listen to the interview.

Cal Twomey is involved so zero chance of that!

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I’m fairly confident that we have the cattle. Yes this year sucked snd to many players looked to lack interest. If the playing group’s moral is ok. We sign our big fish (English, Smith and Naughts) then building a better footy department will pay off in spades. We just need to have the conviction to set standards and drop players not doing as requested.

[josie]

I’m fairly confident that we have the cattle. Yes this year sucked snd to many players looked to lack interest. If the playing group’s moral is ok. We sign our big fish (English, Smith and Naughts) then building a better footy department will pay off in spades. We just need to have the conviction to set standards and drop players not doing as requested.

We need some mongrel and a bit more speed too.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

We need some mongrel and a bit more speed too.

Yes I agree. But toughness is an attitude thing. If you know you will get dropped for not chasing, tackling or impacting a contest you will do it. Speed wise we need JJ, Garcia and Arty to have big pre seasons and cement a spot in the side. I motivated Smith and Williams and we could be humming

[bornadog]

Cal Twomey is involved so zero chance of that!

Fair enough, a bit like me with some of these media types. Can't stand them.

[1eyedog]

I’m fairly confident that we have the cattle. Yes this year sucked snd to many players looked to lack interest. If the playing group’s moral is ok. We sign our big fish (English, Smith and Naughts) then building a better footy department will pay off in spades. We just need to have the conviction to set standards and drop players not doing as requested.

Smith has to play midfield next season. We lack pace in there.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Smith has to play midfield next season. We lack pace in there.

Yes agree. I would swap him with Adz on the wing. Keeps them both in the game longer and around the ball. I’d even swap Libba with West in the forward line. Bont for MaCrae or Williams.

I think if we continue with Poulter/Baker and The Lilian’s on the wings. MaCrae may guy struggle to find a spot. Interesting year coming king up for some of our big name players

[Bullies]

Yes agree. I would swap him with Adz on the wing. Keeps them both in the game longer and around the ball. I’d even swap Libba with West in the forward line. Bont for MaCrae or Williams.

I think if we continue with Poulter/Baker and The Lilian’s on the wings. MaCrae may guy struggle to find a spot. Interesting year coming king up for some of our big name players If Busslinger develops like he should and plays 1's next year I would play JOD on the wing. Has the perfect build for wing. Has speed and versatility. Would be so hard to match up on. Watched him in the 2's earlier in the year at Port Melbourne on the wing and dominated. Would be a luxury but a good one to have.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

If Busslinger develops like he should and plays 1's next year I would play JOD on the wing. Has the perfect build for wing. Has speed and versatility. Would be so hard to match up on. Watched him in the 2's earlier in the year at Port Melbourne on the wing and dominated. Would be a luxury but a good one to have.

I’m not so sure. I understand what you say and with Darcy coming back that make sense. However that would not help us with speed around the ball. With our midfield group. I Williams, Smith, Poulter get pushed forward.

I’m hoping some fresh eyes and a high performance environment honestly has played in set posistions and they gain continuity.

[SonofScray]

Is the review on going, or has it finished?

[GVGjr]

Is the review on going, or has it finished?

I'd say with all the departures parts of it are in play. There are the actions we are seeing now and then the changes that will happen before the end of the season.

What are your thought on the shake-up so far? While you had some of the more senior managers in your sights are you pleased we are looking to upgrade the coaches box and find a new head of conditioning manager?
I can't recall a more vigorous last few weeks in terms of changes at the club without a head coach being involved.

[MrMahatma]

I'd say with all the departures parts of it are in play. There are the actions we are seeing now and then the changes that will happen before the end of the season.

What are your thought on the shake-up so far? While you had some of the more senior managers in your sights are you pleased we are looking to upgrade the coaches box and find a new head of conditioning manager?
I can't recall a more vigorous last few weeks in terms of changes at the club without a head coach being involved.

Seems like a fair bit of change. Certainly a fair few blokes moving on. Who we replace them with will be the defining factor. We've let an experienced defensive coach and experienced fitness guy go. Webb was experienced too.

We're certainly going to have a crop of new faces in the coaching/support ranks.

[SonofScray]

I'd say with all the departures parts of it are in play. There are the actions we are seeing now and then the changes that will happen before the end of the season.

What are your thought on the shake-up so far? While you had some of the more senior managers in your sights are you pleased we are looking to upgrade the coaches box and find a new head of conditioning manager?
I can't recall a more vigorous last few weeks in terms of changes at the club without a head coach being involved.

Innes out and a fresh look there is the best result. Whether he was going well or not, I've seen a few examples of programs, how they implement them and where the inputs are, and a fresh look there with a new challenge laid down to the players is important.

Legs feed the wolf.

The rest of it, probably getting the same from me. Changing everything around Bevo was always an option, was touted here, has happened at Richmond previously and flagged ahead of the review by Grant when he unequivocally backed the coach in. Perhaps they'd already arrived at an outcome earlier?

Glad the Club is doing something, but, I'm not convinced it is the right course of action, and still have my doubts over the footy department's integrity. Feels like kicking the can down the road, which could work, there's enough change there that you'd expect some influence on the environment and messaging the players are exposed to. Maybe it's enough to have put the players on notice that its a performance driven industry and they all have a part to play in helping each other stay in it.

Risk for me now is that when the club is faced with another poor start or signs again that we have a burnt out coach that has to be moved on, we'll have very little continuity in the coaching department moving forward from that point. I'm dreading a scenario where within 5 games, I will know we are no chance.

I'm still perplexed by how it's gone so far. All for a man that initially only saw himself in the role for a period time shorter than his current tenure, that is extremely fortunate to have survived this season and at least one other since the flag, and despite being a guy whose strength is an emotional hook and relationship with his players has helmed a team that has repeatedly crumbled and played well outside of its identity.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Looking at the playing list, besides a few fringe players it would seem we'll largely back our list in and go again. Is that the right call?

I really don't think it is.

The players have to share a large part of the blame, but what are they being held accountable to? If we roll out the same 'best 18-22' and hope for a change, I have zero confidence we march back up the ladder.

This group has been questioned more than once over a number of years and I'd like to see us shake it up beyond players around the fringes. If we have players who haven't given 110% effort over a 2-year span, door. If we have players who aren't leading by example off the ground and have let their performances suffer, door.

Loyalty is all good and well, but the players have used up their credits.

[azabob]

Looking at the playing list, besides a few fringe players it would seem we'll largely back our list in and go again. Is that the right call?

I really don't think it is.

The players have to share a large part of the blame, but what are they being held accountable to? If we roll out the same 'best 18-22' and hope for a change, I have zero confidence we march back up the ladder.

This group has been questioned more than once over a number of years and I'd like to see us shake it up beyond players around the fringes. If we have players who haven't given 110% effort over a 2-year span, door. If we have players who aren't leading by example off the ground and have let their performances suffer, door.

Loyalty is all good and well, but the players have used up their credits.

It seems that way but honestly are our fringe players who are currently uncontracted turning the dial hugely?

If we are to sign them it should be for one more year only and look to move them on at the end of 2024.

Who knows we may actively trade out Dale, Macrae or someone similar. Smith, Naughton or English may request a trade.

[angelopetraglia]

Damian Barrett. Again.

IF ...
the Cats in 2006 and the Tigers 10 years later backed in their senior coaches amidst massive reviews of operations ...

THEN ...
the Bulldogs are doing the same in 2023. Mark Thompson and Damien Hardwick survived, but dramatically changed their ways. Not sure Bevo will be as embracing of the same drastic need for change.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Damo certainly knows how to troll ;)

[ledge]

Damian Barrett. Again.

IF ...
the Cats in 2006 and the Tigers 10 years later backed in their senior coaches amidst massive reviews of operations ...

THEN ...
the Bulldogs are doing the same in 2023. Mark Thompson and Damien Hardwick survived, but dramatically changed their ways. Not sure Bevo will be as embracing of the same drastic need for change.

Maybe it doesn’t need “ drastic change “ .
No matter how good a coach is he can become stale . Some of our assistants had been there well over a decade . Maybe that’s just the change we need.

[angelopetraglia]

Bevo lives rent free inside Barrett's head.

[Grantysghost]

Damian Barrett. Again.

IF ...
the Cats in 2006 and the Tigers 10 years later backed in their senior coaches amidst massive reviews of operations ...

THEN ...
the Bulldogs are doing the same in 2023. Mark Thompson and Damien Hardwick survived, but dramatically changed their ways. Not sure Bevo will be as embracing of the same drastic need for change.

Not sure Bevo will become a meth head either.

[Sedat]

Not sure Bevo will become a meth head either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUurvaI7XU8

[1eyedog]

Looking at the playing list, besides a few fringe players it would seem we'll largely back our list in and go again. Is that the right call?

I really don't think it is.

The players have to share a large part of the blame, but what are they being held accountable to? If we roll out the same 'best 18-22' and hope for a change, I have zero confidence we march back up the ladder.

This group has been questioned more than once over a number of years and I'd like to see us shake it up beyond players around the fringes. If we have players who haven't given 110% effort over a 2-year span, door. If we have players who aren't leading by example off the ground and have let their performances suffer, door.

Loyalty is all good and well, but the players have used up their credits.

Who would you trade out / delist and who is available that you would go hard at? Or would you take any picks to the draft or a combination of both?

Cutting too deep can generare it's own problems.

[GVGjr]

Who would you trade out / delist and who is available that you would go hard at? Or would you take any picks to the draft or a combination of both?

Cutting too deep can generare it's own problems.

The talk from a decent portion of the forum is that we have too many players with marginal talent levels so the only way you can address that is by cutting into the list a bit deeper than we have been. Yes it comes with some risks
but there is also a potential for some wins as well.
It's a fine line but we shouldn't keep players on the list that are unlikely to push for senior spots.

[1eyedog]

The talk from a decent portion of the forum is that we have too many players with marginal talent levels so the only way you can address that is by cutting into the list a bit deeper than we have been. Yes it comes with some risks
but there is also a potential for some wins as well.
It's a fine line but we shouldn't keep players on the list that are unlikely to push for senior spots.

So who then? Is Cleary pushing? Khamis? Khamis looks like he's going Sweet looks like he's going and we've delisted Hannan, TOB, McComb and Raak. Bruce is gone. We play Scott, Vandermeer and McNeill. Clarke and Gallagher haven't had a chance yet. Who on the list is left to 'cut'? Roarke?

If Khamis and Sweet go that's seven how many more can we cut given our draft hand? Power said we'll take around 4 picks into the draft so to replace the players we cut I'd also assume we bring in a couple of players as well. Seven players is a decent turnover of the list.

I think BB was talking about cutting into the 22 so I assume he means Vandermeer, McNeill and Scott. I think if we start considering trades outside this group (the Macrae's / Smith's) you're treading on dangerous ground I think. Unless they're want out of course

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Who would you trade out / delist and who is available that you would go hard at? Or would you take any picks to the draft or a combination of both?

Cutting too deep can generare it's own problems.

I do agree with your last part, but I also don't want us to hold onto players who genuinely offer us very little anwyay. Our depth was found out this year more than ever, so I'd rather back our recruiters in to find replacements. Predominately I would prefer this is done via the draft, but it doesn't just have to be 18 y.o kids.

In terms of who I would delist on top of Bruce/TOB/McComb/Hannan/Raak/Sweet;

- Crozier. If we are desperate to keep some experience, maybe I can live with another year, but he's been a non-contributor for quite a while. Some of that is injury, a lot of it is form. Played ok v Geelong in the last round so maybe as depth he's an option but I'd rather see what we can find across the country.

- McNeil. If a player is going to make it, he needs a point of difference. Vandermeer has pace, TOB had mobility, Gardner has courage - some of these traits alone aren't enough to keep these players in the game but at least you know THAT is what they bring. What does McNeil bring? He isn't overly quick, he has poor skills and decision making, he's small, he doesn't win/find much of the ball..... We just have to find better.

- R. Smith. I've grown to like Smith and when fully fit, he's proven himself to provide solid service and particularly in big games where the intensity rises. I do like that, but he's not available often enough.

I'd give McLean and Bedendo 1 more year. I would have kept only 1 of Keath and Duryea - different players, but don't think we can carry both.

I'd actively look to trade Macrae if we can. Feel he's been on the decline for 2 seasons, is unable to play anywhere other than midfield, and is no longer a first choice mid. Assuming we draft a young mid who is ready to play, I don't see a spot for Jack. If we could get a top 15 pick for him that would be a good result IMO.

[azabob]

I do agree with your last part, but I also don't want us to hold onto players who genuinely offer us very little anwyay. Our depth was found out this year more than ever, so I'd rather back our recruiters in to find replacements. Predominately I would prefer this is done via the draft, but it doesn't just have to be 18 y.o kids.

In terms of who I would delist on top of Bruce/TOB/McComb/Hannan/Raak/Sweet;

- Crozier. If we are desperate to keep some experience, maybe I can live with another year, but he's been a non-contributor for quite a while. Some of that is injury, a lot of it is form. Played ok v Geelong in the last round so maybe as depth he's an option but I'd rather see what we can find across the country.

- McNeil. If a player is going to make it, he needs a point of difference. Vandermeer has pace, TOB had mobility, Gardner has courage - some of these traits alone aren't enough to keep these players in the game but at least you know THAT is what they bring. What does McNeil bring? He isn't overly quick, he has poor skills and decision making, he's small, he doesn't win/find much of the ball..... We just have to find better.

- R. Smith. I've grown to like Smith and when fully fit, he's proven himself to provide solid service and particularly in big games where the intensity rises. I do like that, but he's not available often enough.

I'd give McLean and Bedendo 1 more year. I would have kept only 1 of Keath and Duryea - different players, but don't think we can carry both.

I'd actively look to trade Macrae if we can. Feel he's been on the decline for 2 seasons, is unable to play anywhere other than midfield, and is no longer a first choice mid. Assuming we draft a young mid who is ready to play, I don't see a spot for Jack. If we could get a top 15 pick for him that would be a good result IMO.

Mid year I suggested Dale, Macrae and English potential trade options.

Bailey Dale would get a top 15 pick.
Macrae would only net a late second rounder due to age, salary and contract term.

[bornadog]

So who then? Is Cleary pushing? Khamis? Khamis looks like he's going Sweet looks like he's going and we've delisted Hannan, TOB, McComb and Raak. Bruce is gone. We play Scott, Vandermeer and McNeill. Clarke and Gallagher haven't had a chance yet. Who on the list is left to 'cut'? Roarke?

If Khamis and Sweet go that's seven how many more can we cut given our draft hand? Power said we'll take around 4 picks into the draft so to replace the players we cut I'd also assume we bring in a couple of players as well. Seven players is a decent turnover of the list.

I think BB was talking about cutting into the 22 so I assume he means Vandermeer, McNeill and Scott. I think if we start considering trades outside this group (the Macrae's / Smith's) you're treading on dangerous ground I think. Unless they're want out of course

Every year under Bevo we have delisted/traded/retired around 8 players - some years less, and a couple of years more. Every year many posters say we didn't cut deep enough. Earlier in this thread, I suggested 12 players, however, replacing them is not an easy task. I think we will end up with around 8 gone again.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I do agree with your last part, but I also don't want us to hold onto players who genuinely offer us very little anwyay. Our depth was found out this year more than ever, so I'd rather back our recruiters in to find replacements. Predominately I would prefer this is done via the draft, but it doesn't just have to be 18 y.o kids.

In terms of who I would delist on top of Bruce/TOB/McComb/Hannan/Raak/Sweet;

- Crozier. If we are desperate to keep some experience, maybe I can live with another year, but he's been a non-contributor for quite a while. Some of that is injury, a lot of it is form. Played ok v Geelong in the last round so maybe as depth he's an option but I'd rather see what we can find across the country.

- McNeil. If a player is going to make it, he needs a point of difference. Vandermeer has pace, TOB had mobility, Gardner has courage - some of these traits alone aren't enough to keep these players in the game but at least you know THAT is what they bring. What does McNeil bring? He isn't overly quick, he has poor skills and decision making, he's small, he doesn't win/find much of the ball..... We just have to find better.

- R. Smith. I've grown to like Smith and when fully fit, he's proven himself to provide solid service and particularly in big games where the intensity rises. I do like that, but he's not available often enough.

I'd give McLean and Bedendo 1 more year. I would have kept only 1 of Keath and Duryea - different players, but don't think we can carry both.

I'd actively look to trade Macrae if we can. Feel he's been on the decline for 2 seasons, is unable to play anywhere other than midfield, and is no longer a first choice mid. Assuming we draft a young mid who is ready to play, I don't see a spot for Jack. If we could get a top 15 pick for him that would be a good result IMO.

We're unlikely to get a young mid this year. At least one ready to play. McKercher would be the one but doubt he's available for us.

[MrMahatma]

Do JOD & Poulter count as change in our list this season, or last? In terms of "fringe" talent and their upside, IMO those 2 have been excellent recruiting. If we cut 8, and then replace those 8, this off season, we're talking about 10 different players in the mix since March. (I'm not hung up on whether they're rookies, main list etc). If we cut 10 this off season, it's 12 different players. If we cut 12 (!) then... you can do the math.

At some point you get value from continuity also. They need to train and play together for a while before it all becomes second nature.

I agree with the changes so far, and with Sweet and Karmis out, I'd move on McNeil and give the rest another year. I think Crozier is worthwhile, mature experience. That gets us to 8 this off-season. I reckon that's enough change. Let's face it, we aren't going to find even 8 players who will be in our 22 next year, and unlikely to find 8 that will have much of a senior career at all.

It's probably conservative but I don't see how we end up with a better list by moving on more players. Hopefully our first rounder this year impacts, and hopefully a couple of the 2nd year players next year do some damage for us. And Darcy.

[1eyedog]

Every year under Bevo we have delisted/traded/retired around 8 players - some years less, and a couple of years more. Every year many posters say we didn't cut deep enough. Earlier in this thread, I suggested 12 players, however, replacing them is not an easy task. I think we will end up with around 8 gone again.

You know the problem isn't who we cut the problem is who we bring in. Year after year.

We shouldn't be weinging our hands year after year whether we are cutting deep enough we need to make better decisions. TOB was a dumb decision, elevating McComb was a dumb decision, retaining Khamis year after year and not playing him is dumb do we feel we have an obligation to retain him? It feels like it.

[bornadog]

You know the problem isn't who we cut the problem is who we bring in. Year after year.

We shouldn't be weinging our hands year after year whether we are cutting deep enough we need to make better decisions. TOB was a dumb decision, elevating McComb was a dumb decision, retaining Khamis year after year and not playing him is dumb do we feel we have an obligation to retain him? It feels like it.

Please remember, when we got JUH and Darcy we were left with 4th round plus picks, so we had the choice of bringing in complete unknown kids not even ranked highly or known players, from eg VFL. TOB was a free agent and I don't think it was a dumb decision as he didn't cost much and he was backup. Injuries killed him. Khamis, well again you need cover. McComb was burning up VFL, but he wasn't much chop at AFL.

Hindsight they didn't work out but I think our hands were tied with no 2nd or 3rd round picks.

This year we may even bring in Chatfield from VFL if we start to cut deeply.

[ledge]

Please remember, when we got JUH and Darcy we were left with 4th round plus picks, so we had the choice of bringing in complete unknown kids not even ranked highly or known players, from eg VFL. TOB was a free agent and I don't think it was a dumb decision as he didn't cost much and he was backup. Injuries killed him. Khamis, well again you need cover. McComb was burning up VFL, but he wasn't much chop at AFL.

Hindsight they didn't work out but I think our hands were tied with no 2nd or 3rd round picks.

This year we may even bring in Chatfield from VFL if we start to cut deeply.

We have had a few work as well .. Poulter, Gardner and Keath.

[Dogs 24/7]

We have finished the home and away season in 4th position or higher since 2009 so we need to change our strategy a bit. We are already outside of the 8 so the signs are there that we need to make some changes.

[FrediKanoute]

I watched the Netflix Doc Swamp Kings about the US College University of Florida Football team over the 06 to 09 seasons. Interesting point was the coach and how he changed over a 4 year period despite them having success and who by year 5 was done, out of stories, out of ideas and probably most of all not a good place from a mental health perspective. The more successful the team was the more he worried that they weren't successful enough to the point of implosion.

Sometimes you can tinker round the edges without solving the problem. I think changing the assistants is good, but Bevo has to look at himself and ask the question is he really up for it? Is he really going to change and modify away from his core principles to get the team where he wants them to be? if not then 2024 is going to be an almighty cluster f*ck.

In terms of the list I am happy with the changes so far. I think McNeil, Smith and Crosier should also get a tap on the shoulder. I think we should add from the VFL team, but only if the player fills a position of need and we are going to play them there. I'd like to draft 5 players if possible.

[mjp]

I watched the Netflix Doc Swamp Kings about the US College University of Florida Football team over the 06 to 09 seasons. Interesting point was the coach and how he changed over a 4 year period despite them having success and who by year 5 was done, out of stories, out of ideas and probably most of all not a good place from a mental health perspective. The more successful the team was the more he worried that they weren't successful enough to the point of implosion.

Well, he wasn't completely done. If he had been, we would have missed out on all this great stuff:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/urban-meyer-fired-timeline-of-the-former-national-championship-coachs-tumultuous-tenure-with-jaguars/

[FrediKanoute]

Well, he wasn't completely done. If he had been, we would have missed out on all this great stuff:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/urban-meyer-fired-timeline-of-the-former-national-championship-coachs-tumultuous-tenure-with-jaguars/

Yeah - he quit at the end of 09. Came back 2 months later and had a poor 2010. Left and ended up a University of Ohio 2 years later before ending up in the NFL. When I mean done, I meant that he was done with what he could do with Florida. He needed a refresh.

[bulldogtragic]

Finals coaches doing well in recent appointments

GWS into a semi (missed finals last year)
Collingwood into a prelim
Carlton into a prelim (missed finals last year)
Saints made finals (missed finals last year)

Clearly changing coaches can get the talent on the list from missing finals to going deep into September.

But let’s hope our plan is better.

[GVGjr]

Finals coaches doing well in recent appointments

GWS into a semi (missed finals last year)
Collingwood into a prelim
Carlton into a prelim (missed finals last year)
Saints made finals (missed finals last year)

Clearly changing coaches can get the talent on the list from missing finals to going deep into September.

But let’s hope our plan is better.

I get why it's confronting for our supporters to lose a long term and successful coach because of our history but the past shouldn't shape our future and it isn't a legitimate excuse for non action.
After such a successful period off the field we aren't the same club we once were and if and when it comes down to Bevo leaving us or eventually moving him on we should be confident that we can unearth the next Luke Beveridge.
There are some good coaches out there with fresh approaches.

[Mofra]

Finals coaches doing well in recent appointments

GWS into a semi (missed finals last year)
Collingwood into a prelim
Carlton into a prelim (missed finals last year)
Saints made finals (missed finals last year)

Clearly changing coaches can get the talent on the list from missing finals to going deep into September.

But let’s hope our plan is better.
All bar one year in the last decade a team has made top 4 after missing finals the previous year.
We are ninth. It could be us with a bit of adjustment.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

All bar one year in the last decade a team has made top 4 after missing finals the previous year.
We are ninth. It could be us with a bit of adjustment.

2024 is definitely an all or nothing season for us. If we miss finals, it's blow up time. We'll be under a heap of pressure.

[mjp]

Finals coaches doing well in recent appointments

GWS into a semi (missed finals last year)
Collingwood into a prelim
Carlton into a prelim (missed finals last year)
Saints made finals (missed finals last year)

Clearly changing coaches can get the talent on the list from missing finals to going deep into September.

But let’s hope our plan is better.


Can I counter:
GWS into a semi (missed finals last year) - Replacing CAMERON. High Water Mark: Grand Final when they got smashed then....
Collingwood into a prelim - Replacing BUCKLEY. High Water Mark: Grand Final where they only just got beaten...had they won there would NOT have been a coaching change.
Carlton into a prelim (missed finals last year) - Replacing WHO CAN REMEMBER it's been so many blokes. High Water Mark...didn't win the wooden spoon one year and I guess Cripps and Curnow had provided some excitement for supporters.
Saints made finals (missed finals last year) - Replacing RATTEN who replaced Richardson? High Water Mark - I think one of those coaches beat us in a final by a few points when we were abysmal.

You are right BT (of course you are) but we have to compare situations. The other clubs were - with the exception of Buckley - genuinely replacing coaches who had pretty much FAILED. In our circumstances we were in a GF in 2021. Even following the Buckley timeline (lost in 2018, replaced at the start of 22) Bevo still has 12-months...and Bevo does actually have the credits of a GF win.

Again - I'm NOT paricularly concerned by the idea of a coaching change but when we keep saying 'all these other guys have changed coaches and look at the results' you have to remember how much HARDER it must be to make the decision to move on a premiership winning coach who made it to another GF vs moving on David Teague who had won nothing...

[Rocco Jones]

I am with mjp.

If the common fan/pro change had it's way, these guys would have been sacked:
- Goodwin before 2021
- Chris Scott for failing to win a flag
- Hardwick in 2016
- Voss just before winning streak
- Hinkley would have been sacked a few times over

[azabob]

I am with mjp.

If the common fan/pro change had it's way, these guys would have been sacked:
- Goodwin before 2021
- Chris Scott for failing to win a flag
- Hardwick in 2016
- Voss just before winning streak
- Hinkley would have been sacked a few times over

The jury is still out on Hinkley and Voss.

Don?t you have some doubt if Bevo can turn it around?

[jeemak]

The jury is still out on Hinkley and Voss.

Don?t you have some doubt if Bevo can turn it around?

I'm sure everyone has doubts. But you have to balance the doubts he can turn it around versus the chances he can - which he has shown he can do after 2017-2018, and again versus the doubts a new coach will be any good (many aren't).

[Rocco Jones]

The jury is still out on Hinkley and Voss.

Don?t you have some doubt if Bevo can turn it around?

Voss has got his side to a prelim. If that's barely keeping your job territory, the churn rate would be huge.

I have a lot of doubt on Bevo. From what I know, I'd probably have him sacked but I don't know everything. I don't know what the guys in charge do and if I know better than them, they should be sacked.

I don't like talking in absolutes. I was merely listing a group of counter examples. Some clubs do hold onto coaches too long but if we went with the majority of fans (and I am not say just the crazy ones) Hardwick, C Scott and Goodwin would have all been gone before winning flags.

[Mofra]

The jury is still out on Hinkley and Voss.

Don?t you have some doubt if Bevo can turn it around?
Hinkley's the 2nd or 3rd longest serving senior coach in the AFL - that jury is damn indecisive

[bulldogtragic]

Can I counter:
GWS into a semi (missed finals last year) - Replacing CAMERON. High Water Mark: Grand Final when they got smashed then....
Collingwood into a prelim - Replacing BUCKLEY. High Water Mark: Grand Final where they only just got beaten...had they won there would NOT have been a coaching change.
Carlton into a prelim (missed finals last year) - Replacing WHO CAN REMEMBER it's been so many blokes. High Water Mark...didn't win the wooden spoon one year and I guess Cripps and Curnow had provided some excitement for supporters.
Saints made finals (missed finals last year) - Replacing RATTEN who replaced Richardson? High Water Mark - I think one of those coaches beat us in a final by a few points when we were abysmal.

You are right BT (of course you are) but we have to compare situations. The other clubs were - with the exception of Buckley - genuinely replacing coaches who had pretty much FAILED. In our circumstances we were in a GF in 2021. Even following the Buckley timeline (lost in 2018, replaced at the start of 22) Bevo still has 12-months...and Bevo does actually have the credits of a GF win.

Again - I'm NOT paricularly concerned by the idea of a coaching change but when we keep saying 'all these other guys have changed coaches and look at the results' you have to remember how much HARDER it must be to make the decision to move on a premiership winning coach who made it to another GF vs moving on David Teague who had won nothing...

We are sticking with Bevo, so it?s all moot. But if you said a couple of years ago McRae, Kingsley & Voss would be coaching teams heading into prelims next week few would believe you. For the argument it?d stuck fat like Thompson & Hardwick, there?s a counter argument that the new coaches are doing really well. But it?s moot, Bevo is coaching next year and I hope it?s the right call and we don?t waste another year.

[GVGjr]

MJP's list highlights why we shouldn't be as scared of making a coaching change when it gets to that point.
I'm happy enough to stick with Beveridge but I also don't have a lot of trepidation of change that seems to have a grip with many Bulldog supporters. Change is coming and we shouldn't fear it because of past experiences. We are a very different club now than the one of struggled though many failed coaching changes.
The game changes quickly and new coaches appear to have the ability to both adapt to and find innovative solutions.

[jeemak]

We are sticking with Bevo, so it?s all moot. But if you said a couple of years ago McRae, Kingsley & Voss would be coaching teams heading into prelims next week few would believe you. For the argument it?d stuck fat like Thompson & Hardwick, there?s a counter argument that the new coaches are doing really well. But it?s moot, Bevo is coaching next year and I hope it?s the right call and we don?t waste another year.

One of the questions I have is, is there another Michael Voss among the candidates for vacant coaching positions? Someone who has done it once and ****ed it up, and is ready to go again after doing the ground work at other clubs.

To me he's in his own category as a "new" coach, and credit to him for sticking with it.

[1eyedog]

One of the questions I have is, is there another Michael Voss among the candidates for vacant coaching positions? Someone who has done it once and ****ed it up, and is ready to go again after doing the ground work at other clubs.

To me he's in his own category as a "new" coach, and credit to him for sticking with it.

Nathan Buckley

[Mofra]

3/4 clubs to reach the prelim have new coaches.
On the snippets I know about him, I'm on the Nigel Lappin train. A 'uniter' is the type of coach we need.

[Sedat]

I have a lot of doubt on Bevo. From what I know, I'd probably have him sacked but I don't know everything. I don't know what the guys in charge do and if I know better than them, they should be sacked.
I have some doubts as well (specifically around his inflexibility in game plan and his inability to curtail opposition run-ons) but I also think he deserves 12 more months with a significantly altered footy depth and game plan. A pass mark would be to win a final to keep his job going into 2025. Pressure and expectation should be sbsolutely embraced by the entire club.

[GVGjr]

3/4 clubs to reach the prelim have new coaches.
On the snippets I know about him, I'm on the Nigel Lappin train. A 'uniter' is the type of coach we need.

Good call but for what it's worth I think Lade fits that type of coaching trait as well.

[macca]

One of the questions I have is, is there another Michael Voss among the candidates for vacant coaching positions? Someone who has done it once and ****ed it up, and is ready to go again after doing the ground work at other clubs.

To me he's in his own category as a "new" coach, and credit to him for sticking with it.

Would like to see Lippistch as an assistance. He put in some toughness to our midfield
His been in senior couch and had sucess at richmond

[Mofra]

Good call but for what it's worth I think Lade fits that type of coaching trait as well.
Our midfield went backwards sharply once Lade joined us - perhaps he is part of the problem?
I'd want to know more

[bornadog]

Our midfield went backwards sharply once Lade joined us - perhaps he is part of the problem?
I'd want to know more

I said this a little while ago in another thread, but didn't get any support from other posters.

Last year we were the number one centre clearance side, and we stopped the rot from the GF debacle. This year we have slipped right back, even though Tim is now one of the best tap ruckman. What changed from last year? Yes Dunkley is gone, but he never really attended many CBAs, Macrae is no longer in the centre? and Lade has taken over the mids.

[bornadog]

2015-2023:


Ken - 4 finals series, W/L 2/5, 0 GFs, 0 Flags.
Bevo - 6 finals series, W/L 7/5, 2GFs, 1 Flag.


Guess which coach Kane is calling for the head of?

[bulldogtragic]

2015-2023:


Ken - 4 finals series, W/L 2/5, 0 GFs, 0 Flags.
Bevo - 6 finals series, W/L 7/5, 2GFs, 1 Flag.


Guess which coach Kane is calling for the head of?

Ken?

[GVGjr]

Ken?

Hinkley.

[mjp]

One of the questions I have is, is there another Michael Voss among the candidates for vacant coaching positions? Someone who has done it once and ****ed it up, and is ready to go again after doing the ground work at other clubs.

To me he's in his own category as a "new" coach, and credit to him for sticking with it.

Last coach to win a flag at his second club was Mick Malthouse. He then went and won another with his third club.

So whilst I don't disagree with you, recent history says you either win it with club#1 or you don't win it at all...

[Topdog]

I said this a little while ago in another thread, but didn't get any support from other posters.

Last year we were the number one centre clearance side, and we stopped the rot from the GF debacle. This year we have slipped right back, even though Tim is now one of the best tap ruckman. What changed from last year? Yes Dunkley is gone, but he never really attended many CBAs, Macrae is no longer in the centre? and Lade has taken over the mids.

We really didnt though, everything that we have seen with regards to capitulating in quarters is just an extension of what we did last year.

In regards to Lade, yep our midfield work has regressed this season so questions need to be asked.

[bornadog]

We really didnt though, everything that we have seen with regards to capitulating in quarters is just an extension of what we did last year.

In regards to Lade, yep our midfield work has regressed this season so questions need to be asked.

I did say last year CBAs - that has gone this year.

[Topdog]

I did say last year CBAs - that has gone this year.

You did but whilst we were winning CBAs we were conceding 6 goals without scoring 1 so it was kinda pointless

[bornadog]

You did but whilst we were winning CBAs we were conceding 6 goals without scoring 1 so it was kinda pointless

Is there a stat for that or just gut feel? I know this year we were pretty average:

Five-plus goal streaks conceded in 2023


23 - West Coast
16 - Hawthorn, North Melbourne
13 - Gold Coast
11 - Western Bulldogs
9 - Essendon
8 - Fremantle
7 - Adelaide, Richmond, St Kilda
6 - Greater Western Sydney
5 - Carlton, Collingwood, Port Adelaide, Sydney
4 - Brisbane, Geelong, Melbourne

[macca]

2015-2023:


Ken - 4 finals series, W/L 2/5, 0 GFs, 0 Flags.
Bevo - 6 finals series, W/L 7/5, 2GFs, 1 Flag.


Guess which coach Kane is calling for the head of?

Not sure what Port are going to do with Hinkley????
I almost was reminded of the sound of music : what to do with Maria?

Back him another year and he fails, media storm will be brewing of wasted list , poor coaching etc?.. Or sack him and get another coach

I had them as flag favourites when they smashed Brisbane in the early round
The resigning may have been premature.

[Topdog]

Is there a stat for that or just gut feel? I know this year we were pretty average:

Five-plus goal streaks conceded in 2023


23 - West Coast
16 - Hawthorn, North Melbourne
13 - Gold Coast
11 - Western Bulldogs
9 - Essendon
8 - Fremantle
7 - Adelaide, Richmond, St Kilda
6 - Greater Western Sydney
5 - Carlton, Collingwood, Port Adelaide, Sydney
4 - Brisbane, Geelong, Melbourne

I posted a thread about it last year as it absolutely killed me. Going through each game was painful.

Found the thread
https://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?22059-One-way-traffic&highlight=

[jeemak]

Not sure what Port are going to do with Hinkley????
I almost was reminded of the sound of music : what to do with Maria?

Back him another year and he fails, media storm will be brewing of wasted list , poor coaching etc?.. Or sack him and get another coach

I had them as flag favourites when they smashed Brisbane in the early round
The resigning may have been premature.

He'll have the best ruckman in the league next year so the sky's the limit! :)

I kid, I kid. He's a bit of a Koala given his poor finals record versus his tenure. I guess the twang and colloquialisms he speaks in resonate with the media types.

[Grantysghost]

He'll have the best ruckman in the league next year so the sky's the limit! :)

I kid, I kid. He's a bit of a Koala given his poor finals record versus his tenure. I guess the twang and colloquialisms he speaks in resonate with the media types.

Has the Cats and Port media people right in his corner.
I remember BMac had similar from Cats people like Ling and Mooney.

[bornadog]

I posted a thread about it last year as it absolutely killed me. Going through each game was painful.

Found the thread
https://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?22059-One-way-traffic&highlight=

Thanks for that.

[Rocco Jones]

Has the Cats and Port media people right in his corner.
I remember BMac had similar from Cats people like Ling and Mooney.

Helps he doesn't attack the media like Bevo ha!

Bevo said of Kane Cornes 'I don't know how people around you can live with you, how they can lie in bed with you, how they can look at themselves in the mirror'.

Bevo literally assaulted Damian Barrett in a toilet.

Bevo smashed Tom Morris in that press and the grubs generally stick together.

Yep some guys are on easy street with the media but of course Bevo is going to get hated on when we struggle. He has not helped himself at all.

[MrMahatma]

Helps he doesn't attack the media like Bevo ha!

Bevo said of Kane Cornes 'I don't know how people around you can live with you, how they can lie in bed with you, how they can look at themselves in the mirror'.

Bevo literally assaulted Damian Barrett in a toilet.

Bevo smashed Tom Morris in that press and the grubs generally stick together.

Yep some guys are on easy street with the media but of course Bevo is going to get hated on when we struggle. He has not helped himself at all.

And that's only what's on the public record! You'd gotta imagine he's had words with them all face-to-face or on the phone at some point.

It does put pressure on himself, and I think he could've phrased a few of his attacks better. That said, I kinda like that he throws the odd haymaker.

[Rocco Jones]

And that's only what's on the public record! You'd gotta imagine he's had words with them all face-to-face or on the phone at some point.

It does put pressure on himself, and I think he could've phrased a few of his attacks better. That said, I kinda like that he throws the odd haymaker.

Me too. All of that. Not trying to have a go at him. He doesn't suffer fools, he isn't really into being the bigger person if he feels he is in the right and he feels any hill is worth dying on. The AFL media are generally gross af and Bevo is righteous af. Not a good mix.

[Sedat]

Helps he doesn't attack the media like Bevo ha!

Bevo said of Kane Cornes 'I don't know how people around you can live with you, how they can lie in bed with you, how they can look at themselves in the mirror'.

Bevo literally assaulted Damian Barrett in a toilet.

Bevo smashed Tom Morris in that press and the grubs generally stick together.

Yep some guys are on easy street with the media but of course Bevo is going to get hated on when we struggle. He has not helped himself at all.
Not going to lie, I kinda love Bevo for all the above even though the pragmatist in me knows it was an overreaction and that there will be strong consequences when we underperform like we have the last 2 years.

What annoys me more than anything about how we shat the bed in those infamous 8 minutes during the 3rd qtr of the 2021 GF was that a flag 2 years ago would have been been the biggest middle finger of all time (and forever) to the gutter scribes, who have long memories and will not stop until Bevo is hung, drawn and quartered.

[Rocco Jones]

Not going to lie, I kinda love Bevo for all the above even though the pragmatist in me knows it was an overreaction and that there will be strong consequences when we underperform like we have the last 2 years.

What annoys me more than anything about how we shat the bed in those infamous 8 minutes during the 3rd qtr of the 2021 GF, was that a flag 2 years ago would have been been the biggest middle finger of all time (and forever) to the gutter scribes, who have long memories and will not stop until Bevo is hung, drawn and quartered.

Totally agree with all of that. Very easy to find blasting gross people endearing. I don't think it's wise to do it to the extent Bevo does but I definitely find it mostly endearing.

[Sedat]

Totally agree with all of that. Very easy to find blasting gross people endearing. I don't think it's wise to do it to the extent Bevo does but I definitely find it mostly endearing.
I don't want Bevo to go on a charm offensive next year either - I just want him to focus solely on game day/planning and win the court of public opinion by getting another flag.

He was charming/effusive with the media this year and it hasn't helped his reputation at all. I personally like him with an edge, flint hard and responding directly to the pressure of expectation, without coming off like Bullet Tooth Tony from Snatch - that is when he is at his best IMO.

[mjp]

He was charming/effusive with the media this year and it hasn't helped his reputation at all. I personally like him with an edge, flint hard and responding directly to the pressure of expectation, without coming off like Bullet Tooth Tony from Snatch - that is when he is at his best IMO.

When he does that, he doesn't seem authentic. He just has to be himself.

Sure - there's some charm and likability in there...of course there is. But there was always an edge there. Bring it back.

[Rocco Jones]

Yep, I mostly like how he is, but you know...maybe don't make comments about how someone's wife can tolerate sleeping with them and try not to choke someone in a toilet.

[mjp]

Yep, I mostly like how he is, but you know...maybe don't make comments about how someone's wife can tolerate sleeping with them and try not to choke someone in a toilet.

Well, I do like to tell people that arseholes are everyone's problem...and sometimes it does take a little bit of drastic action for an arsehole to be put in their place.

[Rocco Jones]

Well, I do like to tell people that arseholes are everyone's problem...and sometimes it does take a little bit of drastic action for an arsehole to be put in their place.

Oh I am terrible at being the 'bigger person'. I guess my original point was in regards to why media goes Bevo harder. Barrett, Cornes, Morris...reductive to lump them all in together but basically type that are like 'we are just doing our job' then take it personally when attacked for being shit people.

[MrMahatma]

The thing about sleeping beside someone was just weird. Well, silly and unnecessary also.

I thought the Morris stuff was firm, spot on… albeit a bit rambly.

The least Bevo thing all year was when he said too much was left to too few after the WC match. He’s normally supportive to a fault.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't want Bevo to go on a charm offensive next year either - I just want him to focus solely on game day/planning and win the court of public opinion by getting another flag.

He was charming/effusive with the media this year and it hasn't helped his reputation at all. I personally like him with an edge, flint hard and responding directly to the pressure of expectation, without coming off like Bullet Tooth Tony from Snatch - that is when he is at his best IMO.

I agree. Recruit Bullet Tooth Tony as head coach. I’m on board. In fact, I’m on board with about 10 or more guys from Snatch taking over.

[jeemak]

The thing about sleeping beside someone was just weird. Well, silly and unnecessary also.

I thought the Morris stuff was firm, spot on… albeit a bit rambly.

The least Bevo thing all year was when he said too much was left to too few after the WC match. He’s normally supportive to a fault.

I reckon there's more to that comment and it wasn't just targeted at Kane. Way too specific and not simply collateral damage.

[doggies ftw]

I don't want Bevo to go on a charm offensive next year either - I just want him to focus solely on game day/planning and win the court of public opinion by getting another flag.

He was charming/effusive with the media this year and it hasn't helped his reputation at all. I personally like him with an edge, flint hard and responding directly to the pressure of expectation, without coming off like Bullet Tooth Tony from Snatch - that is when he is at his best IMO.

Uh what? This year was him being charming?

Jesus?

He?s the most uninspiring man I?ve ever heard try to mumble through some bullshit cliche, couldn?t pay me enough to listen to this man talk anymore. If that?s him being charming we’re in strife

[Grantysghost]

Uh what? This year was him being charming?

Jesus?

He?s the most uninspiring man I?ve ever heard try to mumble through some bullshit cliche, couldn?t pay me enough to listen to this man talk anymore. If that?s him being charming we’re in strife

I think he believes he's a good speaker. That's about where it starts and ends.
He's a good motivator though and adequate enough communicator.
We don't need him to be Stephen Fry ;)

[EasternWest]

I agree. Recruit Bullet Tooth Tony as head coach. I’m on board. In fact, I’m on board with about 10 or more guys from Snatch taking over.

Even Vince and Solomon?

[bulldogtragic]

Even Vince and Solomon?

Is Tyrone part of the package? He’s a natural. Might be tempting.

[EasternWest]

Is Tyrone part of the package? He’s a natural. Might be tempting.

Course he is.

[Axe Man]

Head of our membership drive:

https://i.postimg.cc/1tWZYdPg/dags-do-you-like-dags.gif (https://postimages.org/)

[Sedat]

Course he is.
Don't worry about Tyrone, he can move when he has to

[EasternWest]

Don't worry about Tyrone, he can move when he has to

Course I can.

[SonofScray]

Listened to Bevo at the BnF.

I remain worried that he isn’t the right man for the job and we’ve just kicked the can down the road. He looks and sounds spent.

[macca]

Good point , at what level Spent ?
- Buckley ran out of ideas to improve the list ? Maybe still suffering from the 2018 recasting last 90 sec meltdown and salary cap pressures
-Bolton spent all his goodwill on developing an immature list that needed a few more coaches after him ?
- Ratten , spent to much time building rapport and empathy with the list ?
-Dew , not sure what he did wrong other than not enough wins in a poorly managed club ?
- north melbourne , they never spent any thought of giving coach enough time
- who were essendon last coaches ? I lost count now

[Rocket Science]

Listened to Bevo at the BnF.

I remain worried that he isn?t the right man for the job and we?ve just kicked the can down the road. He looks and sounds spent.

Seinfeld memes as a coping mechanism; an occasional and oddly relevant series ...

https://i.ibb.co/5sQKF59/cooked.png (https://ibb.co/QYWDd6c)

[Grantysghost]

Seinfeld memes as a coping mechanism; an occasional and oddly relevant series ...

https://i.ibb.co/5sQKF59/cooked.png (https://ibb.co/QYWDd6c)

Haha, the butter shave! Gold

[jeemak]

Where can you find the audio of the speech?

[GVGjr]

Listened to Bevo at the BnF.

I remain worried that he isn’t the right man for the job and we’ve just kicked the can down the road. He looks and sounds spent.

He did sound a bit flat but it must be unsettling for someone who's had a lot of stability in the footy department during his 9 years in charge to now have a higher level of uncertainty of how the footy department will look going forward.
We need to look at how all this pans out because I suspect he will be more positive about things once the full list of support is around him.

[azabob]

Where can you find the audio of the speech?

Club website

[jeemak]

Club website

Thanks, I couldn't find it at first glance but have now.

[jeemak]

It's interesting the biases we each bring to the table (i.e. me not wanting to sack him, others unsure, others wanting him gone) as I watched that and thought the surprise at the numbers and thanking of supporters set a solemn tone for the overall address. And while he wasn't energetic what I thought I saw was a lack of confidence in him for the first time - rather than flatness.

The thanking of KWW, the board and Darcy was possibly a bit pointed, though is it usual for those in the operation to call out the performance of others in the operation who sit directly above them? Could be, I guess I don't watch enough of these types of things. He then went rapid fire into sponsors which is what I'd expect the senior coach to do.

So back to the nature of his speech (or at least the video on the web site), he almost spent the entire time fare welling either long term coaching personnel, or critical personnel and players. To me that'd look worse if it was upbeat.

I did see that he was holding the domestique jersey so perhaps he spoke for much longer after the video cut and didn't lift. I dunno.

[hujsh]

It's interesting the biases we each bring to the table (i.e. me not wanting to sack him, others unsure, others wanting him gone) as I watched that and thought the surprise at the numbers and thanking of supporters set a solemn tone for the overall address. And while he wasn't energetic what I thought I saw was a lack of confidence in him for the first time - rather than flatness.

The thanking of KWW, the board and Darcy was possibly a bit pointed, though is it usual for those in the operation to call out the performance of others in the operation who sit directly above them? Could be, I guess I don't watch enough of these types of things. He then went rapid fire into sponsors which is what I'd expect the senior coach to do.

So back to the nature of his speech (or at least the video on the web site), he almost spent the entire time fare welling either long term coaching personnel, or critical personnel and players. To me that'd look worse if it was upbeat.

I did see that he was holding the domestique jersey so perhaps he spoke for much longer after the video cut and didn't lift. I dunno.

He did seem a bit down to me but I'm not sure it's the right time to be super upbeat and satisfied given the terrible terrible season and the fact that 'sharp axes' and people just wanting a change have pretty much removed all the other coaches and key support staff (Spangher and Edge the only remaining coaches?)

[Hotdog60]

Is it the season opener that the upbeat speeches come out?

[Doc26]

The thanking of KWW, the board and Darcy was possibly a bit pointed, though is it usual for those in the operation to call out the performance of others in the operation who sit directly above them? Could be, I guess I don't watch enough of these types of things. He then went rapid fire into sponsors which is what I'd expect the senior coach to do.

Jee I dont wish to make much of Bevo?s 2023 BnF speech as we all have our off moments, and particularly with the back drop of an internal review currently underway, being lead by his manager, a number of his coaching team departing, and Bevo himself no doubt still disappointed by the way the season unfolded, and as such he is no doubt feeling the pressure and strain.

So no big deal if its isolated to a single speech, and not part of the current and daily dynamic at the Club.

So with that said, and with reference to your question above, here?s a comparative speech of Bevo?s taken from the 2021 BnF, this off the back of the heart break of the 2021 loss to the Dees. Jump to around the 4 to 6 minute mark if you want to hear all those that he acknowledges for their support. He?s very thorough and doesn?t miss any, and calls out Chris and Ameet for their support.

https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/1022332/charles-sutton-2021-luke-beveridge

Note you may need to reload the url on selection to enable the play button.

[jeemak]

Jee I dont wish to make much of Bevo?s 2023 BnF speech as we all have our off moments, and particularly with the back drop of an internal review currently underway, being lead by his manager, a number of his coaching team departing, and Bevo himself no doubt still disappointed by the way the season unfolded, and as such he is no doubt feeling the pressure and strain.

So no big deal if its isolated to a single speech, and not part of the current and daily dynamic at the Club.

So with that said, and with reference to your question above, here?s a comparative speech of Bevo?s taken from the 2021 BnF, this off the back of the heart break of the 2021 loss to the Dees. Jump to around the 4 to 6 minute mark if you want to hear all those that he acknowledges for their support. He?s very thorough and doesn?t miss any, and calls out Chris and Ameet for their support.

https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/1022332/charles-sutton-2021-luke-beveridge

Note you may need to reload the url on selection to enable the play button.

So basically all the same thanks, with Grant and Baines as the exceptions! Been a tough couple of years.......

Thanks for posting.

[hujsh]

I think everyone outside the clubs knows there's just a stink around us they don't want to be associated with. They don't see the club as a place that will set them up for success and don't want to be involved with the people running the show. I think it's bigger than Bevo. Smorgon or someone needs to do (or organise more likely) some proper digging into what's going on at the club

[azabob]

I think everyone outside the clubs knows there's just a stink around us they don't want to be associated with. They don't see the club as a place that will set them up for success and don't want to be involved with the people running the show. I think it's bigger than Bevo. Smorgon or someone needs to do (or organise more likely) some proper digging into what's going on at the club

The only highlight over the past two years has been the mens VFL 10-11 game winning stretch.

AFLM and AFLW seniors have been terrible to bog average.

[The Doctor]

I think everyone outside the clubs knows there's just a stink around us they don't want to be associated with. They don't see the club as a place that will set them up for success and don't want to be involved with the people running the show. I think it's bigger than Bevo. Smorgon or someone needs to do (or organise more likely) some proper digging into what's going on at the club

Its much bigger than just Bevo. I feel for him. The senior club administrators have let him down in regards to assistant coach appointments. They have to be accountable for our demise since 2021. As does Bevo, but he seems to be flying solo without a lot of support.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think everyone outside the clubs knows there's just a stink around us they don't want to be associated with. They don't see the club as a place that will set them up for success and don't want to be involved with the people running the show. I think it's bigger than Bevo. Smorgon or someone needs to do (or organise more likely) some proper digging into what's going on at the club

Has everything turned to shit since Gordon left?

[hujsh]

The only highlight over the past two years has been the mens VFL 10-11 game winning stretch.

AFLM and AFLW seniors have been terrible to bog average.

Hell outside of 21 the best we've achieved is barely scraping into finals before losing embarrassingly (maybe the 2020 final against St.Kilda you might say wasn't embarrassing but it kinda was when you watch it)

[hujsh]

Has everything turned to shit since Gordon left?

At the end of 2020? You could say we were performing poorly before then but we were at least trending up and had the off field pieces in place. Managed to use what was left to reach a GF. On the other hand you can point to covid and the soft cap reduction as the beginning of the talent exodus so hard to say if it started with him or not.

[Grantysghost]

Has everything turned to shit since Gordon left?

Hard man to replace. I wouldn't say turned to shit, however there's some concerning outcomes that's for sure.

[Danjul]

Hell outside of 21 the best we've achieved is barely scraping into finals before losing embarrassingly (maybe the 2020 final against St.Kilda you might say wasn't embarrassing but it kinda was when you watch it)
From the last seven years 2021 was the only year when we had a dominant season (top of the ladder after round 20) and won a final.

It was uplifting. Non Bulldog supporters were interested in the team and the club.

Amazing to see that good will trashed.

[Danjul]

At the end of 2020? You could say we were performing poorly before then but we were at least trending up and had the off field pieces in place. Managed to use what was left to reach a GF. On the other hand you can point to covid and the soft cap reduction as the beginning of the talent exodus so hard to say if it started with him or not.

A bad look.

Probably why the club can?t attract people. Had to overpay for Lobb and he needed us a lot more than we needed him.

After 2021 we should have had quality lining up to join.