Sharp Axes

[Before I Die]

I believe it’s correct that Beveridge has the highest win/loss percentage of any Western Bulldogs/Footscray coach. I’m not saying that puts him beyond criticism, but implying his time as coach has been unsuccessful does seem unreasonable.

[bulldogtragic]

A bad look.

Probably why the club can?t attract people. Had to overpay for Lobb and he needed us a lot more than we needed him.

After 2021 we should have had quality lining up to join.

Well back to thread topic, it’s just whether Bevo goes next season and details the year. Or the end of next year or we penny pinch and let 2025 pass us by too.

The plan was to get the best people (Trump voice) to put around Bevo. The best people don’t want to do it. So now what’s the plan? Just let Bevo be Bevo until his time expires?

The plan is in tatters.

[hujsh]

A bad look.

Probably why the club can?t attract people. Had to overpay for Lobb and he needed us a lot more than we needed him.

After 2021 we should have had quality lining up to join.

To clarify, I mean off field. A lot of staff have left (Maple, King, Hansen, Gia, maybe some I'm forgetting) and we've struggled to find notable replacements going so far as to get a guy that wasn't actually coaching to suddenly be a line coach.

[hujsh]

Well back to thread topic, it’s just whether Bevo goes next season and details the year. Or the end of next year or we penny pinch and let 2025 pass us by too.

The plan was to get the best people (Trump voice) to put around Bevo. The best people don’t want to do it. So now what’s the plan? Just let Bevo be Bevo until his time expires?

The plan is in tatters.

IMO you can't replace Bevo until you replace the people replacing Bevo first. We'll end up with the bag man from Essendon as head coach the way we're going now

[bulldogtragic]

IMO you can't replace Bevo until you replace the people replacing Bevo first. We'll end up with the bag man from Essendon as head coach the way we're going now

They’re safe, so until there’s a board challenge to shake things up, we are stuck on a plane with no pilot just waiting to run out of fuel. Worse will be if some of the good players find the stash of parachutes. But we’re committed, F1 and all, so be it.

[hujsh]

They’re safe, so until there’s a board challenge to shake things up, we are stuck on a plane with no pilot just waiting to run out of fuel. Worse will be if some of the good players find the stash of parachutes. But we’re committed, F1 and all, so be it.

Shrug. Wait for it all to burn down then I guess. I see no point in replacing Bevo when we have no way to support a new coach anyway

[bulldogtragic]

Shrug. Wait for it all to burn down then I guess. I see no point in replacing Bevo when we have no way to support a new coach anyway

I tend to agree now. Try not to think about the F1 next season too?

[hujsh]

I tend to agree now. Try not to think about the F1 next season too?

If the place needs burning, it should provide good tinder. If not it won't be such a problem

[SonofScray]

Just watching the AFLW and think our historically bad season from that program should be adding pressure to senior figures. We’ve got mens program not meeting expectations and a women’s program way off the mark.

[jeemak]

Just watching the AFLW and think our historically bad season from that program should be adding pressure to senior figures. We’ve got mens program not meeting expectations and a women’s program way off the mark.

What are the reasons for the poor performances with the women's team in your view? I don't follow it closely, the mens is enough torture for me.

[SonofScray]

What are the reasons for the poor performances with the women's team in your view? I don't follow it closely, the mens is enough torture for me.

Some list balance issues, stemming mostly from expansion killing us, still, you have to work with the hand you are dealt and we’ve not got it right. Horror injury run. Bourke claims a lack of professionalism in the group. He’s actually been quite strong I feel, in a really bad year.

I tend to skew more positive towards the AFLW squad due to a bit of a link there and from what I see the coaching staff are engaged and have a clear vision.

BUT. Performance matters.

We’re a big, pioneer, premiership winning club in this league. It’s all falling apart and the Club, outside the actual folk at the coal face happy to accept the narrative being ascribed to us.

[jeemak]

Some list balance issues, stemming mostly from expansion killing us, still, you have to work with the hand you are dealt and we’ve not got it right. Horror injury run. Bourke claims a lack of professionalism in the group. He’s actually been quite strong I feel, in a really bad year.

I tend to skew more positive towards the AFLW squad due to a bit of a link there and from what I see the coaching staff are engaged and have a clear vision.

BUT. Performance matters.

We’re a big, pioneer, premiership winning club in this league. It’s all falling apart and the Club, outside the actual folk at the coal face happy to accept the narrative being ascribed to us.

I actually found the Burke (get your act together SoS :) ) comments slightly bewildering. If he's not accountable for fitness and professionalism who is? Aren't these the things we hold Bevo accountable for with the mens team?

My understanding of the expansion landscape is rudimentary, but enough to know we've copped it a bit. So if it's not Burke and his coaching team bridging the gap, is it a resourcing issue?

[SonofScray]

I actually found the Burke (get your act together SoS :) ) comments slightly bewildering. If he's not accountable for fitness and professionalism who is? Aren't these the things we hold Bevo accountable for with the mens team?

My understanding of the expansion landscape is rudimentary, but enough to know we've copped it a bit. So if it's not Burke and his coaching team bridging the gap, is it a resourcing issue?
Never going to show a St K person enough respect to spell their name correctly. Even if I like them.

Might ramble a bit here. Sorry in advance.

I think, perhaps, the difference is linked to the maturity of the playing group and the program as a whole. The demands and expectations on the women have gone up rapidly, maybe the supports across the board probably haven’t kept pace. They seem generally well supported at the club by our staff though, so it’s hard to gauge. Maybe even just the culture in the playing group, it’s not mature yet. He was not happy with some behaviours and efforts around nutrition and rest being up to scratch outside of time at the club and when you are down to around 23 fit players it’s hard to pull the trigger.


Men’s programs aren’t navigating that component, I would have thought. The expectations are rock solid and culturally junior players seem to know what they are in for coming into the environment. They still have to adjust and get into the swing of it, but there’s something there. There’ll be countless folk more clued into that than me.

Re: coach comparisons. I’m not sure those domains (fitness/professionalism) are what Bevo cops it around most from others, though I probably have at some point because I’ve thrown the kitchen sink at him and simply want him gone. The two coaches are at different points in their journey, one I see as having a clear focus and bringing a consistent presentation and energy to the role. Both are failing to get the results we want.

Is it just luck, you win some, you lose some, or are they both no good? ( they’re clearly both capable coaches IMO), or moving up the chain is someone else underperforming in the deployment of resources, overall vision, or support?

In this thread we’ve seen the torch turned on coach, Footy Dept boss, CEO and President. I suppose I am wondering does a a horrific season in the AFLW add to that? Maybe we, or the club care enough for that to fuel concern further?

[jeemak]

Excellent response and a lot to think about.

I'll get back to you. Again, great response matte.

[hujsh]

I'm just gonna say this. Pure vibes. Bevo looking good and refreshed

[azabob]

I'm just gonna say this. Pure vibes. Bevo looking good and refreshed

It’s the white sleeves

[Bulldog Revolution]

It’s the white sleeves

Yep, new merch! noticed that too

[ledge]

The white sleeves one Bevo was wearing was the only one I actually like this year .

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I’m not on the inner sanctum like some others and have often wondered what the hell is going on. But for some strange reason I’m sitting pretty comfortable with the dogs and the administration right now. It seems to me that we have identified a freshen up was needed and upsetting the Apple cart with Smith didn’t matter. They have built support around our main man Bevo and look to have recruited very well for Speed, the futures d our immediate needs. It’s seems welll balanced, measured and disciplined for once

Good luck Dogs let’s rip apart in 2024. I can’t wait.

Hopefully Bevo has got the Christmas list good on selection integrity

[FrediKanoute]

Time will tell, but I am feeling more positve. Much will depend on game plans etc, but if these changes mean bevo does what he does best then we will go a long way tp being successful

[SonofScray]

The comments he made in the video about being the fittest and strongest team we’ve put out since 2014 pricked my ears up.

I am hopeful but ultimately, Bevo has spent any goodwill I have. Talk is cheap. I’ll know it when I see it. My expectations are still sky high and if we don’t get close, he has to go.

[ledge]

The comments he made in the video about being the fittest and strongest team we’ve put out since 2014 pricked my ears up.

I am hopeful but ultimately, Bevo has spent any goodwill I have. Talk is cheap. I’ll know it when I see it. My expectations are still sky high and if we don’t get close, he has to go.

As much as Bevo has done for the club if he fails this year in getting to the 8 at the least he would be gone , this list can’t be wasted another year .
He needs to bring a new atmosphere to the playing group and think the club has done all that around him so let’s see how he changes himself up.
In saying that I think we will be fine.

[Mavericks]

The comments he made in the video about being the fittest and strongest team we’ve put out since 2014 pricked my ears up.

I am hopeful but ultimately, Bevo has spent any goodwill I have. Talk is cheap. I’ll know it when I see it. My expectations are still sky high and if we don’t get close, he has to go.

Happy for Bevo to concede we were not fit enough but this should have been taken care of last year. I am happy with the changes the club has made and hopefully Egan and Lade are shouldering the load and having major impact. Tactically I do not have much confidence in Bevo but he is a great player manager. I think we can finish top 4 and a prelim is essential for Bevo to retain his job for my liking. The Bont is a 1 in a generation player and honestly he probably Has only a few years left at the top of his game.

[Vred]

Giving this a bump because looking at current game style have a feeling this thread will be used a ton this year.

[hujsh]

I'd still give it til week 2-3 before making any actual judgements.

[Vred]

I'd still give it til week 2-3 before making any actual judgements.

Seen enough to know nothing has changed with our game style. Super disappointing to see the same ?handball back under pressure to a chip kick forward? bullshit we?ve done since 2022.

You pick a side for speed and we literally had no run and carry, no running in waves, just chip mark until turn over then we get scored against. Pathetic

[SonofScray]

He?s finished. Swing it.

We are stuck on the hamster wheel.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Get rid of him.

[azabob]

I'd still give it til week 2-3 before making any actual judgements.

The problem is hujsh our game plan has not changed one iota. Tactically what has changed?

[jeemak]

How this one is on the coach is beyond me.

Our midfielders got shat on by Melbourne's. The rest of the team didn't take the game on and fluffed their lines when opportunities were presented.

Giving it until round four. If nothing changes then he's in trouble.

As for selection. Both McNeil and Khamis had to play after their late preseason form. It doesn't mean they should play next week. Others like Naughton and Lobb need to be on notice. Harmes can have another week, but can't put in two games like that in a row.

[Grantysghost]

How this one is on the coach is beyond me.

Our midfielders got shat on by Melbourne's. The rest of the team didn't take the game on and fluffed their lines when opportunities were presented.

Giving it until round four. If nothing changes then he's in trouble.

I agree, but the intangible "are they playing for the coach" question has to be raised.

There was a distinct lack of intensity across the board except for maybe a handful.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

How this one is on the coach is beyond me.

Our midfielders got shat on by Melbourne's. The rest of the team didn't take the game on and fluffed their lines when opportunities were presented.

Giving it until round four. If nothing changes then he's in trouble.

We can't sack 20 players.

How anyone can not question him at this point is bewildering to me. Thi is a man spruiking how prepared we are, the same man who plays McNeil and VDM while starting Daniel as sub.

Yes our players are not good enough but he's had this list for years at his disposal. This is his result and he needs to own it.

[jeemak]

I agree, but the intangible "are they playing for the coach" question has to be raised.

There was a distinct lack of intensity across the board except for maybe a handful.

The more pertinent question should be are they playing for each other?

Seeing the likes of Naughton spoil Lobb with a last gasp effort to be relevant as his mind saw it made me want to vomit. Not tapping it inboard in the last, and taking it close to the boundary made me want to go for round two over the trough. He is supposed to be a leader, he needs to cut out the bullshit.

[jeemak]

We can't sack 20 players.

How anyone can not question him at this point is bewildering to me. Thi is a man spruiking how prepared we are, the same man who plays McNeil and VDM while starting Daniel as sub.

Yes our players are not good enough but he's had this list for years at his disposal. This is his result and he needs to own it.

But we CAN ask them to be accountable for how they apply themselves.

Our midfield was pathetic versus theirs. It wasn't Bevo who missed easy chances or fumbled easy football.

As I said, give it to round four (which means I AM questioning him), but also give the players a chance to atone for what was a sub par effort.

[Grantysghost]

The more pertinent question should be are they playing for each other?

Seeing the likes of Naughton spoil Lobb with a last gasp effort to be relevant as his mind saw it made me want to vomit. Not tapping it inboard in the last, and taking it close to the boundary made me want to go for round two over the trough. He is supposed to be a leader, he needs to cut out the bullshit.
Yep fair call. Naughts was shit house.

Both can be true.

[jeemak]

Yep fair call. Naughts was shit house.

Both can be true.

I have massive question marks over the coach. Just need a few more weeks for formulate a view.

[Mofra]

As for selection. Both McNeil and Khamis had to play after their late preseason form. It doesn't mean they should play next week. Others like Naughton and Lobb need to be on notice. Harmes can have another week, but can't put in two games like that in a row.
The question is - who do we replace them with?

After a pre-season of being a 'small forward' McNeill sure did spend a lot of time up the field. It may have been Goodwin's coaching that dragged him up, but Daniel becomes a possibility. Bedendo played well apparently but is he still underdone? West was very very good so we can try to get him to play with Flea a bit deeper.

Buks gets another game for me, He's undersized and battling but at least took intercept marks and there are precisely zero tallish defenders ready to come in, now JOD had gotten himself a head knock.

[MrMahatma]

The problem is hujsh our game plan has not changed one iota. Tactically what has changed?

Thought our fwds led more and where targeted more rather than bombing. We still bombed and panicked at times but we seemed to lower our eyes a bit.

[bornadog]

Appalling to bring this thread up

[EasternWest]

We can't sack 20 players.

Well, certainly not with that attitude.

But give me some can do and a big scythe and we can start again.

[hujsh]

The problem is hujsh our game plan has not changed one iota. Tactically what has changed?

I just want to see how we look when on equal footing with another team

[comrade]

We?re shit.

[mjp]

Appalling to bring this thread up

I'm not a fan of doing it either mate but don't you think the coach and MC bring this sort of discontent on themselves?

I 100% get that we said we would go in with the fittest, readiest, whatever else-est team ever...but the closer the game got the more it felt like that was being used as a reason to hold out players.

When I think back to the year that Bevo 'built', he took a team to Perth that was CLEARLY unfit and under-prepared...but filled with 'his' players who he KNEW would deliver. I'm pretty sure Macrae was one of the 'injured' group who wouldn't have played without the pre-finals bye...why does he not get that level of respect and support now?

I'm no more (or less) frustrated than anyone else but - and this is harsh - you just CANNOT select McNeil and VDM ahead of Caleb Daniel. Daniel was a high finisher in the B&F last year...McNeil was delisted after last year. How did we come to this decision? And yeah, I 'get' that it isn't the same role but, well...it is, isn't it? And I get that VDM is pretty much selected 100/100 times that he is fit....but at some point can we get an idea why? What is he bringing to the team?

Do I think playing Daniel from the start and leaving VDM out and rewarding McNeil for his summer by making him the sub would have led to victory? NO. But - back to the thread - what it would do is lessen my frustration at players who are on the rookie list make mistakes whilst AA players coming off a season when they were top 5 B&F (voted by the COACHES!!!) is sitting on his hands in the dugout.

[angelopetraglia]

I'm not a fan of doing it either mate but don't you think the coach and MC bring this sort of discontent on themselves?

I 100% get that we said we would go in with the fittest, readiest, whatever else-est team ever...but the closer the game got the more it felt like that was being used as a reason to hold out players.

When I think back to the year that Bevo 'built', he took a team to Perth that was CLEARLY unfit and under-prepared...but filled with 'his' players who he KNEW would deliver. I'm pretty sure Macrae was one of the 'injured' group who wouldn't have played without the pre-finals bye...why does he not get that level of respect and support now?

I'm no more (or less) frustrated than anyone else but - and this is harsh - you just CANNOT select McNeil and VDM ahead of Caleb Daniel. Daniel was a high finisher in the B&F last year...McNeil was delisted after last year. How did we come to this decision? And yeah, I 'get' that it isn't the same role but, well...it is, isn't it? And I get that VDM is pretty much selected 100/100 times that he is fit....but at some point can we get an idea why? What is he bringing to the team?

Do I think playing Daniel from the start and leaving VDM out and rewarding McNeil for his summer by making him the sub would have led to victory? NO. But - back to the thread - what it would do is lessen my frustration at players who are on the rookie list make mistakes whilst AA players coming off a season when they were top 5 B&F (voted by the COACHES!!!) is sitting on his hands in the dugout.

I think the decsiion making that drove this is due to a belief that we need more running ability. Our midfield is once paced with Treloar, Libba and Bont. Add Macrae and Caleb into that mix. It looks worse.

So we tried to overcompensate by injecting pace and running ability into the team and that is why the likes of VDM and McNeil were selected. I'm not saying it was the right or wrong strategy, but that is why I believe it did happen.

However, based on today and what we have seen over those two players football journeys, it doesn't matter if you have great athletic ability if you fumble, don't have footy smarts or can't get enough of the pill.

p.s. VDM 10 touches from 82% game time. Caleb 12 touches from 29% game time.

[MrMahatma]

I’ve been aboard the Bevo train forever.

I’m now a swing voter and keen to understand the policy stance.

[Grantysghost]

His stocks took a massive dive for me today.

What the fk was that shit.

[bulldogtragic]

I think the decsiion making that drove this is due to a belief that we need more running ability. Our midfield is once paced with Treloar, Libba and Bont. Add Macrae and Caleb into that mix. It looks worse.

So we tried to overcompensate by injecting pace and running ability into the team and that is why the likes of VDM and McNeil were selected. I'm not saying it was the right or wrong strategy, but that is why I believe it did happen.

However, based on today and what we have seen over those two players football journeys, it doesn't matter if you have great athletic ability if you fumble, don't have footy smarts or can't get enough of the pill.

p.s. VDM 10 touches from 82% game time. Caleb 12 touches from 29% game time.

But VDM is fast…………………

[jeemak]

His stocks took a massive dive for me today.

What the fk was that shit.

Where do you sit on player performance?

I know where you sit on the coach, and we are more closely aligned than you might think with that as I am of the view he's on notice.

[Grantysghost]

Where do you sit on player performance?

I know where you sit on the coach, and we are more closely aligned than you might think with that as I am of the view he's on notice.

I thought they were horrendous as a team.

We were systematically ground into the dirt without giving a yelp.

May had Harmes in the gun and I didn't see one of our guys defend him.

The lack of fight and intensity has floored me considering what this game meant for the club and the build up.

I'm hoping it was a one off, but geez i think im seeing too much of a pattern with this side. They can't be trusted to turn up.

As for the team selection: Melbourne mates were texting saying why do you have four tall forwards and no tall defenders..?

Seriously good question. I had no answer.

[Virgin-Dog]

The question is - who do we replace them with?

After a pre-season of being a 'small forward' McNeill sure did spend a lot of time up the field. It may have been Goodwin's coaching that dragged him up, but Daniel becomes a possibility. Bedendo played well apparently but is he still underdone? West was very very good so we can try to get him to play with Flea a bit deeper.

Buks gets another game for me, He's undersized and battling but at least took intercept marks and there are precisely zero tallish defenders ready to come in, now JOD had gotten himself a head knock.
The frustrating part about this game for me was that so much of what we did well in the practice/preseason games seemed to be entirely abandoned.

> McNeil thriving as a pressure forward, so we push him up the field.
> Our drive off half back was quicker and more powerful than it?s been in years, so we have Dale and Ed play lockdown roles.
> Harmes thriving in the centre, so keep him out of centre bounces.
> Naughton thriving when pushed further up the ground onto the wing, so have him play deep forward.

Sometimes it feels like we do these things to be clever and throw the opponent off, except none of them care because you can trust we?ll just do something self destructive.

[Vred]

The frustrating part about this game for me was that so much of what we did well in the practice/preseason games seemed to be entirely abandoned.

> McNeil thriving as a pressure forward, so we push him up the field.
> Our drive off half back was quicker and more powerful than it?s been in years, so we have Dale and Ed play lockdown roles.
> Harmes thriving in the centre, so keep him out of centre bounces.
> Naughton thriving when pushed further up the ground onto the wing, so have him play deep forward.

Sometimes it feels like we do these things to be clever and throw the opponent off, except none of them care because you can trust we?ll just do something self destructive.

Pretty much summed up my feelings exactly. It seems like everything I saw in the pre-season was completely abandoned for our 2023 game style.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Centre Bounce Attendance
26 - Bontempelli, Liberatore
22 - English, Treloar
7 - Lobb
5 - Sanders
4 - Harmes
3 - Gallagher
1 - Daniel

Coaching.

[lemmon]

Centre Bounce Attendance
26 - Bontempelli, Liberatore
22 - English, Treloar
7 - Lobb
5 - Sanders
4 - Harmes
3 - Gallagher
1 - Daniel

Coaching.

Same strategy as last year in terms of not rolling numbers through there.

Bevo identified that we were losing at the coal face, so apart from swapping Lobb for English, what else was done to change things in the middle?

[Grantysghost]

Centre Bounce Attendance
26 - Bontempelli, Liberatore
22 - English, Treloar
7 - Lobb
5 - Sanders
4 - Harmes
3 - Gallagher
1 - Daniel

Coaching.
That's last year's formula.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Well it?s ish kick both those goals, JUH nailed the banana and Lob did t miss our tails would have been up and maybe a different result.

The only problem really is this is the same problem as the entire Bevo tenor

[DadBod]

Bont was good but faded.
Marra was solid apart from kicking.
Sanders was solid for his first proper AFL game.
Buku was OK.
Jones was good, but can't do it all.
Bramble was OK disposal wise.

Thats really about it.

[Go_Dogs]

The frustrating part about this game for me was that so much of what we did well in the practice/preseason games seemed to be entirely abandoned.

> McNeil thriving as a pressure forward, so we push him up the field.
> Our drive off half back was quicker and more powerful than it?s been in years, so we have Dale and Ed play lockdown roles.
> Harmes thriving in the centre, so keep him out of centre bounces.
> Naughton thriving when pushed further up the ground onto the wing, so have him play deep forward.

Sometimes it feels like we do these things to be clever and throw the opponent off, except none of them care because you can trust we?ll just do something self destructive.

This is a great post. It feels like we were too clever by half.

We need some continuity and clarity on the plan and roles, and then repeat repeat repeat the one wood. We?re so reactive. It?s hard to know what we?re trying to do. I?m sure the coaches and players know - but it can?t be easy to execute if you?re doing slightly different things game to game, for individuals and the team who need it to be more predictable than it is.

[Mantis]

How this one is on the coach is beyond me.

Our midfielders got shat on by Melbourne's. The rest of the team didn't take the game on and fluffed their lines when opportunities were presented.

Giving it until round four. If nothing changes then he's in trouble.

As for selection. Both McNeil and Khamis had to play after their late preseason form. It doesn't mean they should play next week. Others like Naughton and Lobb need to be on notice. Harmes can have another week, but can't put in two games like that in a row.

Based on 2 games against Hawthorn who are pretty much a lock to finish bottom 4.

In 2023 we played our only practice match against North who finished 17th and this year it was Hawthorn who will finish 15th-18th... how can we determine if our players are ready for Rd 1 if they aren't playing against decent opposition?

[Danjul]

I thought they were horrendous as a team.

We were systematically ground into the dirt without giving a yelp.

May had Harmes in the gun and I didn't see one of our guys defend him.

The lack of fight and intensity has floored me considering what this game meant for the club and the build up.

I'm hoping it was a one off, but geez i think im seeing too much of a pattern with this side. They can't be trusted to turn up.

As for the team selection: Melbourne mates were texting saying why do you have four tall forwards and no tall defenders..?

Seriously good question. I had no answer.

May was on Naughton and got 25 disposals and 13 marks, (against 6 and 1). How on earth did he have energy left to take on anyone else?

[Happy Days]

I’m gonna go a bit easier on Naughton as I think playing him deep was a tactical ploy to keep May occupied. It’s dumb and it didn’t work but it isn’t fully Naughton’s fault.

[Ozza]

I’m gonna go a bit easier on Naughton as I think playing him deep was a tactical ploy to keep May occupied. It’s dumb and it didn’t work but it isn’t fully Naughton’s fault.

Naughton played his normal role against a top line full back - be a non factor.

We will never know how good he could have been. As a forward, he would be the leagues most overrated player.

Its the most bloody obvious thing in AFL footy to play him in defence. Its stuffing up the whole team balance.

[Danjul]

I?m gonna go a bit easier on Naughton as I think playing him deep was a tactical ploy to keep May occupied. It?s dumb and it didn?t work but it isn?t fully Naughton?s fault.
That is the most marks May has taken in his last 50 games and 1 short of his career high against North who were struggling years ago .

Four Melbourne backmen combined to get over 40 marks.

Our forward tactics need a thorough overhaul. They set up losses.

[Grantysghost]

That is the most marks May has taken in his last 50 games and 1 short of his career high against North who were struggling years ago .

Four Melbourne backmen combined to get over 40 marks.

Our forward tactics need a thorough overhaul. They set up losses.

The problem was compounded up field. Early on, JJ was doing what we want him to do and breaking the lines and piercing deep inside 50 (within 35 metres). All of our talls got on the board early, happy days. Then they stopped this run

What we don't want is to be held up at half back and kick to around 70-50 out as that's where Lever and May work in tandem to clean things up.

My question is, where was the outlet player? Why wasn't one of the talls pushing up to the wing to at least force a stoppage. I have no idea what our plan was.

[Sedat]

I didn't see the game yesterday but I'm happy to give the team a mulligan when there are 5 debutants and a completely new coaching panel. We are going to have teething problems and disjointed performances whilst we bed down the new game plan - see GWS/Kingsley in the first half of 2023. Surely Bevo knows he is finished in a matter of weeks if the game plan does not significantly change, or if personnel keep getting selected who do not adhere to the new game plan (or both).

Melbourne are a high quality team who have barely lost a game in H&A the last 3 seasons and have only underperformed at the pointy end in the last 2 seasons.

[Topdog]

Well it?s ish kick both those goals, JUH nailed the banana and Lob did t miss our tails would have been up and maybe a different result.

The only problem really is this is the same problem as the entire Bevo tenor

They had 10 more scoring shots than us, dont think we can blame kicking 9 goals from 19 shots. You dont win many games when you only have 19 shots.

[Grantysghost]

I didn't see the game yesterday but I'm happy to give the team a mulligan when there are 5 debutants and a completely new coaching panel. We are going to have teething problems and disjointed performances whilst we bed down the new game plan - see GWS/Kingsley in the first half of 2023. Surely Bevo knows he is finished in a matter of weeks if the game plan does not significantly change, or if personnel keep getting selected who do not adhere to the new game plan (or both).

Melbourne are a high quality team who have barely lost a game in H&A the last 3 seasons and have only underperformed at the pointy end in the last 2 seasons.
Wait... There was an option not to watch!?
Watch the replay and let us know if you change your mind!
I think its only fair you suffer too Sedat... :)

[Sedat]

Wait... There was an option not to watch!?
Watch the replay and let us know if you change your mind!
I think its only fair you suffer too Sedat... :)
Sunday arvo at the beach was a much more attractive option. Weather is far too good for my Mediterranean blood to shift into footy mode.

We are virtually a completely new team with several new assistants and players. It's not going to all seamlessly click from round 1. If the patterns from yesterday, as articulated by everybody on woof, continue/repeat over the first 6-8 rounds, Bevo is finished. It's a close watch no doubt, but happy to give it a few weeks to see how we structure up and adapt our game plan to consistently compete with the top tier.

[Mantis]

I didn't see the game yesterday but I'm happy to give the team a mulligan when there are 5 debutants and a completely new coaching panel. We are going to have teething problems and disjointed performances whilst we bed down the new game plan - see GWS/Kingsley in the first half of 2023. Surely Bevo knows he is finished in a matter of weeks if the game plan does not significantly change, or if personnel keep getting selected who do not adhere to the new game plan (or both).


Whilst there was a change in personnel there was nothing new on offer yesterday... our forwards & mids refuse to defend, our ''fringe'' players continue to make basic errors which directly cost us goals & momentum and we either miss goals we should kick or butcher opportunities when we have the advantage in general play.

It's just rinse & repeat on the previous 2 years.


Melbourne are a high quality team who have barely lost a game in H&A the last 3 seasons and have only underperformed at the pointy end in the last 2 seasons.

They're a very good team, but they too had 5 different/ new players in their team to the one that lost to Carlton in last seasons SF... Why can they adjust to these changes, but we need to make excuses/ allowances?

[Sedat]

Whilst there was a change in personnel there was nothing new on offer yesterday... our forwards & mids refuse to defend, our ''fringe'' players continue to make basic errors which directly cost us goals & momentum and we either miss goals we should kick or butcher opportunities when we have the advantage in general play.

It's just rinse & repeat on the previous 2 years.

Don't get me wrong, it's a watch for sure. It was very disappointing to read that we lost essentially the same way yesterday as we have the last 2 years. In light of all the off-season changes in almost all areas of our footy ops, I would expect the match committee to be ruthless in our evaluation of players who refuse to adhere to the new game plan expectations. Even if it back-fired yesterday, I don't mind the Daniel and Macrae non-selections based on form/fitness to keep the entire playing group on edge and sharp - there has to be the threat of consequences if players do not meet the expectations of match committee either in fitness/conditioning or in adherence to game plan.



They're a very good team, but they too had 5 different/ new players in their team to the one that lost to Carlton in last seasons SF... Why can they adjust to these changes, but we need to make excuses/ allowances?

They have an identifiable brand and correct me if I'm wrong but they played to the same system/structure yesterday that has served them well the last few years? Did they do anything especially different yesterday that they don't normally do?

[Mantis]

They have an identifiable brand and correct me if I'm wrong but they played to the same system/structure yesterday that has served them well the last few years? Did they do anything especially different yesterday that they don't normally do?

They played they do, we played like we do... we looked good in patches but couldn't sustain it and coughed up easy goals throughout.

I see you have mentioned ''new'' game plan a number of times... there was little sign of anything noticeably different yesterday and based off that result we're going to be a middling team again unless there is rapid change/ improvement.

[Grantysghost]

They played they do, we played like we do... we looked good in patches but couldn't sustain it and coughed up easy goals throughout.

I see you have mentioned ''new'' game plan a number of times... there was little sign of anything noticeably different yesterday and based off that result we're going to be a middling team again unless there is rapid change/ improvement.

I think we were standing off the mark again. So what's old is new again? There was nothing obvious; in fact we seem to have thrown a lot of the new things we were developing during the off-season out the window. Naughton was deep, McNeil was high/wing, Harmes was outside.

We threw Gaggs inside when the horse had bolted in a significant nod to the fact we were being destroyed in that area. Considering it was happening all game, I'm not sure why we waited until the last quarter when the game was almost over.

In terms of ball movement. Same old, and I believe we still rolled one up to the contest. That's just how Bevo does things.

I'm really starting the lean towards a change at the top. I'll cool my jets until the half way mark however you really don't need to be Einstein to see that not much has changed.

Credit to the recruitment of Bramble. He looks like a good player.

[Sedat]

I see you have mentioned ''new'' game plan a number of times... there was little sign of anything noticeably different yesterday and based off that result we're going to be a middling team again unless there is rapid change/ improvement.
We've completely changed assistant coaching personnel, fitness & conditioning and have also changed footy dept structure all off the back of a Peter Jackson led external review - with many fresh eyes from different club environments. The club has also stated we are a top 4 talent list and in the premiership window (and have been for a few seasons now) - their words.

If we are going with the same game plan/structure in 2024 that has been regularly and easily picked apart by the better teams since the 2021 GF, Bevo will be gone in 2 months, we will be a non-factor again this year, and the club will have once again significantly under-achieved against their own set metrics.

I can't actually believe the club would have done all this work off-season with a view to a little minor tinkering in terms of game plan. It appears that yesterday was a poor first-up performance in this new era, and things would want to improve especially in the area of defending without the ball and taking away the opposition ball movement weapons.

[angelopetraglia]

I think we were standing off the mark again.

Melbourne in contrast were super agreessive on the mark. Even being risky in pushing us back and slowing us down. That was a big reason for why our ball movement was so slow. There were a few times when we had a spare out the back, but they forced us hard back on our mark, which resulted in that spare being covered or the pressure they applied on the mark forcing a rushed kick and we turned it over.

[angelopetraglia]

If we lose to the GC in Ballarat in a similar way we lost on the weekend, the media are going to have a field day. They will all queue up to hit Bevo with baseball bats. The jungle drums will be beating. That will then bring incredible scrutiny to the round #3 game against the Eagles, especially after what happened last year.

[hujsh]

We've completely changed assistant coaching personnel, fitness & conditioning and have also changed footy dept structure all off the back of a Peter Jackson led external review - with many fresh eyes from different club environments. The club has also stated we are a top 4 talent list and in the premiership window (and have been for a few seasons now) - their words.

If we are going with the same game plan/structure in 2024 that has been regularly and easily picked apart by the better teams since the 2021 GF, Bevo will be gone in 2 months, we will be a non-factor again this year, and the club will have once again significantly under-achieved against their own set metrics.

I can't actually believe the club would have done all this work off-season with a view to a little minor tinkering in terms of game plan. It appears that yesterday was a poor first-up performance in this new era, and things would want to improve especially in the area of defending without the ball and taking away the opposition ball movement weapons.

It's been mentioned we looked different pre-season and Bevo mentioned we failed to do things he thinks we're good at normally. My hope is that with the fatigue and pressure of the first actual game of the year against proper opposition, players just reverted to what they know best, what they've done for the last 3-4 years, and it's not reflective of how we want to play or how we will play this season. Muscle memory in a sense.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We've completely changed assistant coaching personnel, fitness & conditioning and have also changed footy dept structure all off the back of a Peter Jackson led external review - with many fresh eyes from different club environments. The club has also stated we are a top 4 talent list and in the premiership window (and have been for a few seasons now) - their words.

If we are going with the same game plan/structure in 2024 that has been regularly and easily picked apart by the better teams since the 2021 GF, Bevo will be gone in 2 months, we will be a non-factor again this year, and the club will have once again significantly under-achieved against their own set metrics.

I can't actually believe the club would have done all this work off-season with a view to a little minor tinkering in terms of game plan. It appears that yesterday was a poor first-up performance in this new era, and things would want to improve especially in the area of defending without the ball and taking away the opposition ball movement weapons.

You make fair and valid points. A new set of assistants and their ideas need time to instruct, review and then execute. If players aren't, or can't follow direction then they'll need to be weeded out over the next few weeks.

These players are bags of ice. Apply heat and they melt every single time. There was no fight. When it got hard in that last quarter, instead of grinding it out and losing by 25, we threw the towel in and lose by 45. After 6 months of talk, THAT was unacceptable. Sadly it's not the first time.

[bornadog]

We've completely changed assistant coaching personnel, fitness & conditioning and have also changed footy dept structure all off the back of a Peter Jackson led external review - with many fresh eyes from different club environments. The club has also stated we are a top 4 talent list and in the premiership window (and have been for a few seasons now) - their words.

If we are going with the same game plan/structure in 2024 that has been regularly and easily picked apart by the better teams since the 2021 GF, Bevo will be gone in 2 months, we will be a non-factor again this year, and the club will have once again significantly under-achieved against their own set metrics.

I can't actually believe the club would have done all this work off-season with a view to a little minor tinkering in terms of game plan. It appears that yesterday was a poor first-up performance in this new era, and things would want to improve especially in the area of defending without the ball and taking away the opposition ball movement weapons.

Agree with your post except, the bolded bit. All those changes were made before Peter Jackson came in. The only change he recommended was who Bevo reports to - so some responsibility changes between Bevo and Grant.

[G-Mo77]

Whilst there was a change in personnel there was nothing new on offer yesterday... our forwards & mids refuse to defend, our ''fringe'' players continue to make basic errors which directly cost us goals & momentum and we either miss goals we should kick or butcher opportunities when we have the advantage in general play.

It's just rinse & repeat on the previous 2 years.


I've managed to watch up until the 4th, I won't worry about that but what is noticeable is the poor defence across the ground. You used the word refusal to defend and that is how it seems. They do not seem to want to put in the hard work. It's exactly the same problem as 2023. The costly skill errors mentioned are exactly the same as 2023. The poor goal kicking is exactly the same as 2023. Yeah it's one game, they've got 1 up on us as well. I've heard all these excuses. Where have we improved or should I say where are we likely to improve? I don't see anything different at all. 1 round in and it's looking pretty dire.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I've managed to watch up until the 4th. I won't worry about that but what is noticeable is the poor defence across the ground. You used the word refusal to defend and that is how it seems. They do not seem to want to put in the hard work. It's exactly the same problem as 2023. The costly skill errors mentioned are exactly the same as 2023. The poor goal kicking is exactly the same as 2023. Yeah it's one game, they've got 1 up on us as well. I've heard all these excuses. Where have we improved or should I say where are we likely to improve? I don't see anything different at all. 1 round in and it's looking pretty dire.

I suppose the question is how will they deal with the refusal?

Treloar's efforts were putrid. How much rope does he get?

Williams is such a non factor and a huge culprit in their easy transition. He's not a winger. He's a HB or he's VFL.

There should be some damning footage to come out of yesterday, but if we don't hold them to account, it matters little.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It's been mentioned we looked different pre-season and Bevo mentioned we failed to do things he thinks we're good at normally. My hope is that with the fatigue and pressure of the first actual game of the year against proper opposition, players just reverted to what they know best, what they've done for the last 3-4 years, and it's not reflective of how we want to play or how we will play this season. Muscle memory in a sense.

This is our only hope.

[SonofScray]

I think we were standing off the mark again. So what's old is new again? There was nothing obvious; in fact we seem to have thrown a lot of the new things we were developing during the off-season out the window. Naughton was deep, McNeil was high/wing, Harmes was outside.

We threw Gaggs inside when the horse had bolted in a significant nod to the fact we were being destroyed in that area. Considering it was happening all game, I'm not sure why we waited until the last quarter when the game was almost over.

In terms of ball movement. Same old, and I believe we still rolled one up to the contest. That's just how Bevo does things.

I'm really starting the lean towards a change at the top. I'll cool my jets until the half way mark however you really don't need to be Einstein to see that not much has changed.

Credit to the recruitment of Bramble. He looks like a good player.

Halfway?

Too generous.

[Grantysghost]

It's been mentioned we looked different pre-season and Bevo mentioned we failed to do things he thinks we're good at normally. My hope is that with the fatigue and pressure of the first actual game of the year against proper opposition, players just reverted to what they know best, what they've done for the last 3-4 years, and it's not reflective of how we want to play or how we will play this season. Muscle memory in a sense.

This is my hope too.

[azabob]

We've completely changed assistant coaching personnel, fitness & conditioning and have also changed footy dept structure all off the back of a Peter Jackson led external review - with many fresh eyes from different club environments. The club has also stated we are a top 4 talent list and in the premiership window (and have been for a few seasons now) - their words.

If we are going with the same game plan/structure in 2024 that has been regularly and easily picked apart by the better teams since the 2021 GF, Bevo will be gone in 2 months, we will be a non-factor again this year, and the club will have once again significantly under-achieved against their own set metrics.

I can't actually believe the club would have done all this work off-season with a view to a little minor tinkering in terms of game plan. It appears that yesterday was a poor first-up performance in this new era, and things would want to improve especially in the area of defending without the ball and taking away the opposition ball movement weapons.

Sedat, watch the game. Seeing is believing.

Nothing has changed. We didn't even look to be trying something different and kept stuffing it up.

[azabob]

It's been mentioned we looked different pre-season and Bevo mentioned we failed to do things he thinks we're good at normally. My hope is that with the fatigue and pressure of the first actual game of the year against proper opposition, players just reverted to what they know best, what they've done for the last 3-4 years, and it's not reflective of how we want to play or how we will play this season. Muscle memory in a sense.

Do you need some more straws to clutch at?

Normally I agree with your considered approach, not once at all did I see something remarkably different, not even in the first quarter.

[bulldogtragic]

Do you need some more straws to clutch at?

Normally I agree with your considered approach, not once at all did I see something remarkably different, not even in the first quarter.

That was more disappointing than the loss for me. I believed the club when they said they’d change. Fool on me for taking them back and believing again. We keep on ‘double or nothing’ since the 2021 GF. If the club was a human some caring people would stage an intervention.

[jeemak]

The coach said we didn't do the things we were trying to do and that was bad, and at the same time you're upset that we didn't do something different and that was bad.

Aren't you guys just saying the same thing as the coach?

[Sedat]

Sedat, watch the game. Seeing is believing.

Nothing has changed. We didn't even look to be trying something different and kept stuffing it up.
I don't doubt this at all - the post-match comments from everyone on here make for pretty damning reading. And if that trend continues for the next month or two we will be in the market for a new coach come the mid-season bye.

There has been a lot of moving parts between our last H&A match and yesterday - I'm hoping the muscle memory analogy alluded to earlier in the thread is what transpired yesterday, and that we quickly start to consistently piece together what we have been working on all summer.

[azabob]

The coach said we didn't do the things we were trying to do and that was bad, and at the same time you're upset that we didn't do something different and that was bad.

Aren't you guys just saying the same thing as the coach?

We agree round zero was a shit concept although our reasoning is different.

So, same shit, different day. No idea where I'm going with any of this.

[Grantysghost]

When a team is slicing through you by foot out of defense, and it's pretty much the deciding factor, what are you doing in the coaches box to restrict this?

Run and carry to break the lines as West did, or maybe try and possess it for a bit ourselves. We never seem to play tempo footy (yes I'm going there again!!).


It was like watching a slow motion car crash.

Geelong have been doing this to Bevo sides for EONS.

[jeemak]

We agree round zero was a shit concept although our reasoning is different.

So, same shit, different day. No idea where I'm going with any of this.

What I'm getting at is the coach said we didn't execute and it was disappointing. You're saying we didn't show anything different than previous years (I assume when we didn't play well - because we did at times and it looked different than yesterday) and it was disappointing.

I think we're all in agreeance.

[Grantysghost]

What I'm getting at is the coach said we didn't execute and it was disappointing. You're saying we didn't show anything different than previous years (I assume when we didn't play well - because we did at times and it looked different than yesterday) and it was disappointing.

I think we're all in agreeance.

He said he was really surprised that we couldn't keep up or cover the ground as expected. I wonder who were the biggest offenders?

[Mantis]

He said he was really surprised that we couldn't keep up or cover the ground as expected. I wonder who were the biggest offenders?

Our mids were woeful in this area.

[josie]

When a team is slicing through you by foot out of defense, and it's pretty much the deciding factor, what are you doing in the coaches box to restrict this?

Run and carry to break the lines as West did, or maybe try and possess it for a bit ourselves. We never seem to play tempo footy (yes I'm going there again!!).


It was like watching a slow motion car crash.

Geelong have been doing this to Bevo sides for EONS.

Well said. It?s like nearly all our players have low footy IQ. West stuck out yesterday with his game awareness, willingness to take game on in a clever way and high quality disposal.

[DOG GOD]

Our mids were woeful in this area.
They always are.

[DOG GOD]

Well said. It?s like nearly all our players have low footy IQ. West stuck out yesterday with his game awareness, willingness to take game on in a clever way and high quality disposal.
And will probably find himself dropped before other more obvious players.

[josie]

And will probably find himself dropped before other more obvious players.

If he continues to play like yesterday cannot see him being dropped. Definitely to date has not been given multiple opportunities after poor/below ave games that others have.

[FrediKanoute]

Well said. It?s like nearly all our players have low footy IQ. West stuck out yesterday with his game awareness, willingness to take game on in a clever way and high quality disposal.

He was great. Compared to his peers, Vanders and O'Neil what he lacks in speed, he makes up for in footy smarts and execution

[Ozza]

If he continues to play like yesterday cannot see him being dropped. Definitely to date has not been given multiple opportunities after poor/below ave games that others have.

Mark my words. The day West has ONE poor game, he will be dropped.

[SonofScray]

Lollipop man near my daughter’s school a good barometer for where the sort of Dogs fan that isn’t quite as rabid as folk who talk about every element of the club and game day like us WOOFERS is at.

He had a handful of grumpy dads with him today who feel that if we are on the wrong side of the ledger at R5, that’d be time to call it.

I do t think we will be on the wrong side of the ledger at R5.

[bulldogtragic]

Mark my words. The day West has ONE poor game, he will be dropped.

This is why I like to flirt with the idea of a new coach.

Imagine games into West and not McNeil.
Anyone other than VDM.
Players playing in other roles.
Different ideas about personnel at CBAs.
Rucking ideas.
Actually tagging and stopping a player actively killing us.
A shot across the bow of the players too.
Players being taken out of the pigeon holes like they were under BMac and given new life playing to their strengths.
Maybe the MC gets some fresh ideas as a result too.

Axing Bevo isn’t a silver bullet, especially with the poor playing efforts. But it’s not like you can’t make a case that change might be what we need.

Grant can go to, replaced by Power.

[DOG GOD]

So…hypothetically, what happens if we lose a close one to WC in a few weeks ?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

So…hypothetically, what happens if we lose a close one to WC in a few weeks ?

There are a lot of ifs and buts to it (like are west coast travelling much better than expected, dis we beat gold coast the week before) but assuming last years level of performance or similar from the Eagles and we have lost to the Suns, then I don't really see how Bevo survives much longer. It'd be too early for the club to make an absolute call but it'd take a significant turnaround for him to retain the gig.

[angelopetraglia]

So…hypothetically, what happens if we lose a close one to WC in a few weeks ?

If we go 0-3. Bevo will not survive in my opinion. It may not happen that week, but the wheels will be well and truly in motion.

[JanLorMill]

If we go 0-3. Bevo will not survive in my opinion. It may not happen that week, but the wheels will be well and truly in motion.
1-2 if the 1 win being WC isn't a sacking but the knives will be out. Another loss to WC is a sacking regardless of the GCS result.

[Vred]

Lollipop man near my daughter’s school a good barometer for where the sort of Dogs fan that isn’t quite as rabid as folk who talk about every element of the club and game day like us WOOFERS is at.

He had a handful of grumpy dads with him today who feel that if we are on the wrong side of the ledger at R5, that’d be time to call it.

I do t think we will be on the wrong side of the ledger at R5.

I had coffee with a player manager today, his a childhood friend. Doesn't manage any of our players but plenty around Victoria.

From the talks his had with other managers / people in clubland, he reckons if Bevo isn't positive ledger by round 6, he'll be outed.

[jeemak]

I had coffee with a player manager today, his a childhood friend. Doesn't manage any of our players but plenty around Victoria.

From the talks his had with other managers / people in clubland, he reckons if Bevo isn't positive ledger by round 6, he'll be outed.

So he has to win twice as many games as he loses, or secure three wins and a draw to keep his job?

Seems logical.......

Though really, I could understand that sort of thinking taking effect for a point in time later in the season. But not by round six.

[DOG GOD]

So he has to win twice as many games as he loses, or secure three wins and a draw to keep his job?

Seems logical.......

Though really, I could understand that sort of thinking taking effect for a point in time later in the season. But not by round six.

Maybe the club had seen our draw to round 6 as “gettable” towards a positive result.

[Pleather Sole]

Whilst there was a change in personnel there was nothing new on offer yesterday... our forwards & mids refuse to defend, our ''fringe'' players continue to make basic errors which directly cost us goals & momentum and we either miss goals we should kick or butcher opportunities when we have the advantage in general play.

It's just rinse & repeat on the previous 2 years.



They're a very good team, but they too had 5 different/ new players in their team to the one that lost to Carlton in last seasons SF... Why can they adjust to these changes, but we need to make excuses/ allowances?


Melbourne in contrast were super agreessive on the mark. Even being risky in pushing us back and slowing us down. That was a big reason for why our ball movement was so slow. There were a few times when we had a spare out the back, but they forced us hard back on our mark, which resulted in that spare being covered or the pressure they applied on the mark forcing a rushed kick and we turned it over.


Pretty much summed up my feelings exactly. It seems like everything I saw in the pre-season was completely abandoned for our 2023 game style.


That is the most marks May has taken in his last 50 games and 1 short of his career high against North who were struggling years ago .

Four Melbourne backmen combined to get over 40 marks.

Our forward tactics need a thorough overhaul. They set up losses.

One very obvious key position that didn't change during the big broom of late 2023 was Spangher. It still baffles. That and no noticeable improvement in goalkicking. Sure its only one game but Harry McKay had a woeful 2023 season in front of the sticks and he's back to his best, probably better. Can someone find out who coached him preseason? Because they can have top dollar and Johnno can stay in the commentary box.

[jeemak]

Maybe the club had seen our draw to round 6 as “gettable” towards a positive result.

Exceed your career win loss record by about fifteen per cent or get lucky enough to have a draw on top of three wins and you can stay!

Sure thing!

[hujsh]

One very obvious key position that didn't change during the big broom of late 2023 was Spangher. It still baffles. That and no noticeable improvement in goalkicking. Sure its only one game but Harry McKay had a woeful 2023 season in front of the sticks and he's back to his best, probably better. Can someone find out who coached him preseason? Because they can have top dollar and Johnno can stay in the commentary box.

Johnno only joined post Christmas and has only done a few sessions. Hardly his fault.

Spagner was promoted beyond his competence at the time, I assume looking at his history, but was supposedly approached for a line coach position by the Hawks so it seems like he may have grown into the role if that's a reflection of how he's seen in the industry.

[Danjul]

Johnno only joined post Christmas and has only done a few sessions. Hardly his fault.

Spagner was promoted beyond his competence at the time, I assume looking at his history, but was supposedly approached for a line coach position by the Hawks so it seems like he may have grown into the role if that's a reflection of how he's seen in the industry.

Is Johnno focused on kicking the ball? Or tactics.

What disturbs me about the forwards is when the opposition get the ball they can set up four players around the wing and each of them will get an uncontested mark. Our guys set up mid way between them. They are unable to make a contest. Then they run to whoever gets the ball and stand the mark. Sometimes Melbourne had already moved the ball before they got there.

Someone needs to stand off the play so they can receive a clean ball or be in position to prevent the easy exit. And others should man up.

[bornadog]

Is Johnno focused on kicking the ball? Or tactics.

What disturbs me about the forwards is when the opposition get the ball they can set up four players around the wing and each of them will get an uncontested mark. Our guys set up mid way between them. They are unable to make a contest. Then they run to whoever gets the ball and stand the mark. Sometimes Melbourne had already moved the ball before they got there.

Someone needs to stand off the play so they can receive a clean ball or be in position to prevent the easy exit. And others should man up.

Johnno is Goal kicking Coach

[hujsh]

Is Johnno focused on kicking the ball? Or tactics.

What disturbs me about the forwards is when the opposition get the ball they can set up four players around the wing and each of them will get an uncontested mark. Our guys set up mid way between them. They are unable to make a contest. Then they run to whoever gets the ball and stand the mark. Sometimes Melbourne had already moved the ball before they got there.

Someone needs to stand off the play so they can receive a clean ball or be in position to prevent the easy exit. And others should man up.

Purely set shots. And unlike Twodogs I'm not sure he can sort them out in a session or two.

[chef]

This is why I like to flirt with the idea of a new coach.

Imagine games into West and not McNeil.
Anyone other than VDM.
Players playing in other roles.
Different ideas about personnel at CBAs.
Rucking ideas.
Actually tagging and stopping a player actively killing us.
A shot across the bow of the players too.
Players being taken out of the pigeon holes like they were under BMac and given new life playing to their strengths.
Maybe the MC gets some fresh ideas as a result too.

Axing Bevo isn’t a silver bullet, especially with the poor playing efforts. But it’s not like you can’t make a case that change might be what we need.

Grant can go to, replaced by Power.

Caretaker for the rest of the season, or do you have a target?

[bornadog]

The negativity

[Vred]

Exceed your career win loss record by about fifteen per cent or get lucky enough to have a draw on top of three wins and you can stay!

Sure thing!

Not sure if I worded it wrong, but more so a positive looking 3-3 / 4-2 ledger than 1-5 or 2-4, with our fixture and current team health how is that out of the realm of not possibility?

I'd wager money on the fact that if we're looking at 4-5 losses by round 6 Bevo might walk himself out the door, going by his pressers and brief he almost seemed bewildered at what he saw on the field.

[jeemak]

Not sure if I worded it wrong, but more so a positive looking 3-3 / 4-2 ledger than 1-5 or 2-4, with our fixture and current team health how is that out of the realm of not possibility?

I'd wager money on the fact that if we're looking at 4-5 losses by round 6 Bevo might walk himself out the door, going by his pressers and brief he almost seemed bewildered at what he saw on the field.

That's fair enough Vred.

I was just getting a bit carried away as a coping mechanism!

[EasternWest]

The negativity

I think it's fair enough.

What we saw on the weekend was just rinse and repeat of the last three years. No development. No change. No adapting.

I'm not saying I think it's sack Beveridge time, but I'm saying we can't have another year like the last few.

[chef]

The negativity

Was a fair old reality check tbh.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Let's try turn this around then: what positives can we take out of Sunday?

Marra looked good........so did a couple of first gamers......

[chef]

Let's try turn this around then: what positives can we take out of Sunday?

Marra looked good........so did a couple of first gamers......

The weather was nice.

[ledge]

Let's try turn this around then: what positives can we take out of Sunday?

Marra looked good........so did a couple of first gamers......

It only went 4 quarters ?

[EasternWest]

Let's try turn this around then: what positives can we take out of Sunday?

Marra looked good........so did a couple of first gamers......

Steven May got headbutted.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

The weather was nice.

That's true! The weather was nice.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Steven May got headbutted.

2 positives in 1! It wouldn't have happened if we didn't recruit Harmes.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It only went 4 quarters ?

Unfortunately I saw that as a negative (ie we had to endure 4qtrs). But glass half full. I like it.

[Grantysghost]

No injuries?

[Rocket Science]

Let's try turn this around then: what positives can we take out of Sunday?

That we'll be spared Harmes' feckless mug for a week.

---

I don't think the club dare blink on a coaching reassessment before June at the earliest, suspect they'll feel obliged to give Bevo at least that much rope under the new operating system.

Scanning the fixture to that point looks prett-y ominous though ...

I think we'll have trouble with the Suns though the venue may aid us.

The Eagles? Positively fascinating. Surely not, again. A statement game and some newfound confidence before ...

The Cats? LOL. Next.

Then Esserdon? Wowee.

Next. Any Lyon-led Saints outfit gives us and our coach specifically, molto trouble.

Then some particularly uppity Dockers over there? I've got a bad feeling about this.

Then the Giants who look positively possessed at the moment and may resoundingly torch us.

Then if the kitchen isn't feeling quite hot enough by then the Swans, the reigning Premiers and the runners up in sharp succession.

Makes for fairly grim reading if we can't locate our big boy pants during that span.

[bornadog]

May as well give up then

[jeemak]

The Giants are amazing...... Wait, they beat a clearly underprepared Collingwood and then North, both at home. Their form line could be good, or it could just be OK.

But maybe Collingwood weren't underprepared and just suffered from playing two in form Sydney teams even if one had a couple of days extra break than they did in round one or one and a half or whatever the **** it was.

Essendon looked amazing against the side we kicked 15.5 against in the second half two weeks before. Geelong really showed the Saints at their fortress, both on even footing in terms of preparation. Those mighty Suns under Hardwick should travel well given how amazing their home form has been (picking up on something here?) even if one of the games was against an non-round zero starter.

We're a disgrace though, because we played a top four finisher from last year after they had a genuine dress rehearsal and ten days to prepare for us.

It really is the worst time of year if you're not winning.

[Happy Days]

Steven May got headbutted.

And Harmes got suspended. I prayed for this and it happened.

[FrediKanoute]

If we go 0-3. Bevo will not survive in my opinion. It may not happen that week, but the wheels will be well and truly in motion.

I would be surprised if the wheels hadn't already started. Its not the loss per se. Its the manner of the loss and the fact that problems identified 2 or 3 seasons ago persist.

[azabob]

[QUOTE=jeemak;890718

It really is the worst time of year if you're not winning.[/QUOTE]

Looking at the draw we should be 4 wins and 2 losses.

We should win our next four Suns, Eagles, Cats, Bombers. Saints are 50/50.

[AshMac]

Imagine games into West and not McNeil.

This. God this is so spot on. All those weeks of questioning the McNeil selection over the last 2 years whilst West couldn?t get a proper run at it.

Now West is turning into one of our most impactful players with the ball in hand and highest intensity tacklers.

[Mofra]

This. God this is so spot on. All those weeks of questioning the McNeil selection over the last 2 years whilst West couldn?t get a proper run at it.

Now West is turning into one of our most impactful players with the ball in hand and highest intensity tacklers.
The counter argument is... so we handled him correctly?

He plays "desperate" but lacked composure. I honestly see the same game in Riley Garcia. Hoping for a similar result.

[G-Mo77]

I would be surprised if the wheels hadn't already started. Its not the loss per se. Its the manner of the loss and the fact that problems identified 2 or 3 seasons ago persist.

We'll get a win this week and beat West Coast which will paper over the cracks. I think we need to be 0 - 3 and make change rather than sit mid range all season and say "Well we almost made it" again.

[G-Mo77]

The counter argument is... so we handled him correctly?

He plays "desperate" but lacked composure. I honestly see the same game in Riley Garcia. Hoping for a similar result.

IMO West would be the same if not better had we put more time into him, fine tune his game while we pump games into him. He was hardly given any rope at all early on.

[EasternWest]

May as well give up then

We need a rolleyes emoji.

It's good you were happy with the game. Heaven forbid people who aren't be allowed to express their disappointment.

[doggies ftw]

The fact of the matter is we built up this game ?fittest strongest most prepared team ever?.?, the Sanders comment, the video we posted the day before the game. We publicly blew our load about how good we were going to be?. And we failed miserably.

It?s done - the sooner Bev is out the sooner we may be able to salvage something from this shitshow. I honestly think the season will be better if we lose the next two and sack Bev then if we win a couple here and there and keep this shit show rolling on

[bulldogsthru&thru]

The Giants are amazing...... Wait, they beat a clearly underprepared Collingwood and then North, both at home. Their form line could be good, or it could just be OK.

But maybe Collingwood weren't underprepared and just suffered from playing two in form Sydney teams even if one had a couple of days extra break than they did in round one or one and a half or whatever the **** it was.

Essendon looked amazing against the side we kicked 15.5 against in the second half two weeks before. Geelong really showed the Saints at their fortress, both on even footing in terms of preparation. Those mighty Suns under Hardwick should travel well given how amazing their home form has been (picking up on something here?) even if one of the games was against an non-round zero starter.

We're a disgrace though, because we played a top four finisher from last year after they had a genuine dress rehearsal and ten days to prepare for us.

It really is the worst time of year if you're not winning.

It's the way we lost that's got everyone down. Not the loss itself. We lost the same way we always have the last few years. So people are rightly thinking not a lot has changed.

Now of course it's still too early to be writing us off. But we've all seen this before so there's not a lot of hope or trust things will turnaround. I could easily have accepted a loss of we showed something different and gave a good fight but we largely rolled over after quarter time. Melbourne had a huge legup for sure but that's not the reason we lost. Freo beat Brisbane comfortably.

As hujsh pointed out in another thread, most on here are probably hoping we reverted to bad habits when things got tough and this needs to be weeded out. It's our only hope.

[Rocket Science]

May as well give up then

Fear I detected a whiff of that as Melbourne took great joy in bullying us yet again.

It's as if these blokes have no self respect.

[chef]

May as well give up then

Or try something different if what we are currently doing isnt working

[bornadog]

Or try something different if what we are currently doing isnt working

One game in - I am not worried.

[chef]

One game in - I am not worried.

Yeah but thats just your copium.

Just feels like same shit different day to me.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

That we'll be spared Harmes' feckless mug for a week.

---

I don't think the club dare blink on a coaching reassessment before June at the earliest, suspect they'll feel obliged to give Bevo at least that much rope under the new operating system.

Scanning the fixture to that point looks prett-y ominous though ...

I think we'll have trouble with the Suns though the venue may aid us.

The Eagles? Positively fascinating. Surely not, again. A statement game and some newfound confidence before ...

The Cats? LOL. Next.

Then Esserdon? Wowee.

Next. Any Lyon-led Saints outfit gives us and our coach specifically, molto trouble.

Then some particularly uppity Dockers over there? I've got a bad feeling about this.

Then the Giants who look positively possessed at the moment and may resoundingly torch us.

Then if the kitchen isn't feeling quite hot enough by then the Swans, the reigning Premiers and the runners up in sharp succession.

Makes for fairly grim reading if we can't locate our big boy pants during that span.





I just hope we aren't reaching for the adult diapers by the end of that stretch.

[Boots]

What if all of this is just that we really wanted to beat Melbourne, and Melbourne specifically?

They’re a team of punchable heads that have had our number in the worst way for three years. Their strengths (intercept marks, bull midfield) perfectly overpower our weaknesses (weak mid-fwd connection and tackle-averse mids) and our strengths seem to be totally dysfunctional or irrelevant against them.

i dunno. I hate this but let’s give it a few more weeks against non-prick teams.

[bornadog]

Yeah but thats just your copium.

Just feels like same shit different day to me.

Except, this time there have been some changes in the footy department,new assistants, new facilities and I feel the boys believe more. Melbourne are not easy, and we let them off the hook with them scoring easy goals, and us being game time unprepared with lack of match practise in very hot conditions.

After the first 6 rounds, we will learn more.

[EasternWest]

One game in - I am not worried.

For the life of me after watching that shitshow I can't believe that's your take.

[chef]

For the life of me after watching that shitshow I can't believe that's your take.

This is how I'm picturing BAD.
https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.PivJW-52vivplrzm_o0TRAHaEK?w=277&h=180&c=7&r=0&o=5&pid=1.7

[Grantysghost]

This is how I'm picturing BAD.
https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.PivJW-52vivplrzm_o0TRAHaEK?w=277&h=180&c=7&r=0&o=5&pid=1.7
https://i.postimg.cc/GphPNZg8/downloadfile-4.jpg (https://postimg.cc/pm4n51HR)

[ledge]

For the life of me after watching that shitshow I can't believe that's your take.

TBH we have seen sides get smashed early and then go and win the flag or nearly win it.

[EasternWest]

TBH we have seen sides get smashed early and then go and win the flag or nearly win it.

True.

Have they got smashed in exactly the same way as they've played in the last few years without making any adjustments or change?

Do they continue to start players that just aren't quite good enough while overlooking proven core players?

[Grantysghost]

True.

Have they got smashed in exactly the same way as they've played in the last few years without making any adjustments or change?

Do they continue to start players that just aren't quite good enough while overlooking proven core players?

Did we overhaul the entire joint after an internal and external review, have lush new facilities, preach how fit and ready we'd be? "the most ready team to ever take the park"?

[hujsh]

You're all as bad as eachother. I'm an Enlightened Centrist

[chef]

https://i.postimg.cc/GphPNZg8/downloadfile-4.jpg (https://postimg.cc/pm4n51HR)

Haha thats gold.

[bornadog]

For the life of me after watching that shitshow I can't believe that's your take.

Why should I be a miserable **** - 22 rounds to go.

Have some faith or give up are my choices.

[bornadog]

https://i.postimg.cc/GphPNZg8/downloadfile-4.jpg (https://postimg.cc/pm4n51HR)

Very funny, but you don't know me - but surely after all these years -the supreme optimist :D

[Grantysghost]

Very funny, but you don't know me - but surely after all these years -the supreme optimist :D

Yeah - and never change mate.

We need some optimism at the moment.

I'm as flat as a shizen carter's hat.

[EasternWest]

Why should I be a miserable **** - 22 rounds to go.

Have some faith or give up are my choices.

Ridiculous. Just ridiculous.

[Rocket Science]

Further to notions of just giving up ...

https://i.ibb.co/WPk4K2P/Screen-Shot-2024-03-20-at-3-20-04-pm.png (https://ibb.co/8drL87d)

But we were so primed baby, so ready.

[angelopetraglia]

Further to notions of just giving up ...

https://i.ibb.co/WPk4K2P/Screen-Shot-2024-03-20-at-3-20-04-pm.png (https://ibb.co/8drL87d)

But we were so primed baby, so ready.

Wow. That is woeful. I know there is no excuse for that low of a rating. Do we think the weather played a role?

[EasternWest]

Further to notions of just giving up ...

https://i.ibb.co/WPk4K2P/Screen-Shot-2024-03-20-at-3-20-04-pm.png (https://ibb.co/8drL87d)

But we were so primed baby, so ready.

No we have to be positive and upbeat otherwise we just give up. There is absolutely no middle ground.

[Sedat]

https://i.postimg.cc/GphPNZg8/downloadfile-4.jpg (https://postimg.cc/pm4n51HR)
Judging by the collar, looks more like a scene from the Hellfire Club in the late 80's

[Happy Days]

Further to notions of just giving up ...

https://i.ibb.co/WPk4K2P/Screen-Shot-2024-03-20-at-3-20-04-pm.png (https://ibb.co/8drL87d)

But we were so primed baby, so ready.

This can all be resolved by moving Naughton to defence IMHO.

[bornadog]

Judging by the collar, looks more like a scene from the Hellfire Club in the late 80's
Is that from experience :D

[bulldogtragic]

Further to notions of just giving up ...

https://i.ibb.co/WPk4K2P/Screen-Shot-2024-03-20-at-3-20-04-pm.png (https://ibb.co/8drL87d)

But we were so primed baby, so ready.

Giving up or not really trying?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

This can all be resolved by moving Naughton to defence IMHO.

Or dropping McNeil.....

[MrMahatma]

Further to notions of just giving up ...

https://i.ibb.co/WPk4K2P/Screen-Shot-2024-03-20-at-3-20-04-pm.png (https://ibb.co/8drL87d)

But we were so primed baby, so ready.

I mean.... has the coach lost the players? Have the players lost each other?

Those stats are damning and they're not skills based, they're effort and give-a-shit based.

[bornadog]

Ridiculous. Just ridiculous.

I am not sure your problem with this comment.

[Mantis]

I mean.... has the coach lost the players? Have the players lost each other?

Those stats are damning and they're not skills based, they're effort and give-a-shit based.

The lack of effort was my main take away from Sunday... To serve up that shit after a fairly tumultuous pre-season was concerning to say the least.

I care less about the result if it looks like all the players are rowing in the same direction.. however too many played like they don't care which was the same as it was at the start of 2023 and it put us on the back foot from the get-go.

The eyes of the footy world are on us and a repeat performance in terms of effort means Bevo needs to go now.

[EasternWest]

I am not sure your problem with this comment.

Have some faith or give up. That's it? That's the only two options? Nothing in between? Not room for conversation? Not room for nuance? Just a binary be a suckhole or quit?

It's a crap comment and it's beneath you.

[Rocket Science]

It's easy to sympathise with the idea this group just needs the air cleared and a fresh voice but must confess I'm also sympathetic to the coach whose job prospects are wedded to a playing list that's a disjointed work in progress, wracked with structural defects and carries half a dozen sub-standard types who struggle at the level more weeks than not.

We're the poster boys for bipolarity and perhaps another coach can wring more out of what we have but there's a sobering argument to be made we're just not equipped to trouble the competition's elite unless a handful of usual suspects plonk the rest on their backs and I'm unconvinced a different bloke blowing the whistle fixes that.

I mean fine, pick your ideal Bevo replacement then digest the fact he's still going to be stuffed for competent wingers, reliable key defenders and 2nd rotation mids.

[EasternWest]

It's easy to sympathise with the idea this group just needs the air cleared and a fresh voice but must confess I'm also sympathetic to the coach whose job prospects are wedded to a playing list that's a disjointed work in progress, wracked with structural defects and carries half a dozen sub-standard types who struggle at the level more weeks than not.

We're the poster boys for bipolarity and perhaps another coach can wring more out of what we have but there's a sobering argument to be made we're just not equipped to trouble the competition's elite unless a handful of usual suspects plonk the rest on their backs and I'm unconvinced a different bloke blowing the whistle fixes that.

I mean fine, pick your ideal Bevo replacement then digest the fact he's still going to be stuffed for competent wingers, reliable key defenders and 2nd rotation mids.

I agree with all of this and as I said earlier in the thread I'm not really in the sack Beveridge camp. But I am interested in the discussion because this tripe can't go on (insert that's where you're wrong kiddo meme).

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I agree with all of this and as I said earlier in the thread I'm not really in the sack Beveridge camp. But I am interested in the discussion because this tripe can't go on (insert that's where you're wrong kiddo meme).

Yeah it could very well be the players letting the coach down but the coach has to set the tone. And then we go about re-signing the same guys who let the coach down such as Williams.....

[EasternWest]

Yeah it could very well be the players letting the coach down but the coach has to set the tone. And then we go about re-signing the same guys who let the coach down such as Williams.....

Yeah but at least ole Bails had a good yuck yuck yuck about it afterwards (I should say I don't actually care that much about the laughing pic even though it doesn't look awesome).

[Unhealthy Obsession]

I’m firmly in the Bevo Out camp and have been for a few years now. My opinions are my own and they may be right, probably wrong, but they’re mine.
For me this started when Bevo called for a rebuild / refresh in the middle of 2017 and rode out the season playing kids at the expense of premiership players. He, along with Chris Grant saw the writing on the wall and made an early move to rejig the team – rightly or wrongly, he got his way and was green-lighted into building a team more akin to his footballing philosophies.

He and Grant gave copious interviews throughout 2018 and 19 detailing how we’re changing course and whilst we aim to win every game, we are the youngest team in the league for a reason. We rolled out young team after young team, not quite bottoming out but bad enough to snag a few pretty good top10 kids in the process.

Fast forward 7 years, this is Bevo’s team. Warts and all. He’s had his finger on the pulse, as he should, he’s the head coach, of all footballing matters – recruitment, retention, game style / strategy. We can’t look at this team now and say that it has glaring holes and is imbalanced. He’s been at the club for 10 years crafting this list and he owns every bit of it, good and bad.

Bevo’s charm / idiosyncrasies such, Naughton permanent forward and not ever being swung back because, Bevo, zone defending, backing 5m off the mark, Thursday night selection bingo, phone box backwards handballs, Daniel back pocket, waiting 7 years for English to learn how to ruck, the 4 headed impotent monster and the countless other things that I’m sure we could all reel off – none of that will change. They’re the byproduct of his leadership of the football department which he has essentially run for a decade.

I believe he’s had ample time to rebuild this list and have our club in apposition where we’re not losing games to the worst teams of the last 20 years. Our highs are no longer high enough to cover the ever-present lows we all see most weeks and it’s time. It was time last year. The end comes for everyone no matter who you are, and by god his time is well and truly up! (In my opinion)

[josie]

I’m firmly in the Bevo Out camp and have been for a few years now. My opinions are my own and they may be right, probably wrong, but they’re mine.
For me this started when Bevo called for a rebuild / refresh in the middle of 2017 and rode out the season playing kids at the expense of premiership players. He, along with Chris Grant saw the writing on the wall and made an early move to rejig the team – rightly or wrongly, he got his way and was green-lighted into building a team more akin to his footballing philosophies.

He and Grant gave copious interviews throughout 2018 and 19 detailing how we’re changing course and whilst we aim to win every game, we are the youngest team in the league for a reason. We rolled out young team after young team, not quite bottoming out but bad enough to snag a few pretty good top10 kids in the process.

Fast forward 7 years, this is Bevo’s team. Warts and all. He’s had his finger on the pulse, as he should, he’s the head coach, of all footballing matters – recruitment, retention, game style / strategy. We can’t look at this team now and say that it has glaring holes and is imbalanced. He’s been at the club for 10 years crafting this list and he owns every bit of it, good and bad.

Bevo’s charm / idiosyncrasies such, Naughton permanent forward and not ever being swung back because, Bevo, zone defending, backing 5m off the mark, Thursday night selection bingo, phone box backwards handballs, Daniel back pocket, waiting 7 years for English to learn how to ruck, the 4 headed impotent monster and the countless other things that I’m sure we could all reel off – none of that will change. They’re the byproduct of his leadership of the football department which he has essentially run for a decade.

I believe he’s had ample time to rebuild this list and have our club in apposition where we’re not losing games to the worst teams of the last 20 years. Our highs are no longer high enough to cover the ever-present lows we all see most weeks and it’s time. It was time last year. The end comes for everyone no matter who you are, and by god his time is well and truly up! (In my opinion)

Good post. I kinda waiver a bit but yeah, unfortunately I think if I had to jump one way or the other, I think you?re right. I hope you?re wrong though!!

I started becoming very worried after ?21 GF when I heard there was no detailed review with players.

Nothing since then has stopped the worry, despite the optimistic messages, revamp of WO, turnover of players & assistant coaches, reviews etc. I hope for good outcomes but I no longer trust my team to deliver them.

[Danjul]

It's easy to sympathise with the idea this group just needs the air cleared and a fresh voice but must confess I'm also sympathetic to the coach whose job prospects are wedded to a playing list that's a disjointed work in progress, wracked with structural defects and carries half a dozen sub-standard types who struggle at the level more weeks than not.

We're the poster boys for bipolarity and perhaps another coach can wring more out of what we have but there's a sobering argument to be made we're just not equipped to trouble the competition's elite unless a handful of usual suspects plonk the rest on their backs and I'm unconvinced a different bloke blowing the whistle fixes that.

I mean fine, pick your ideal Bevo replacement then digest the fact he's still going to be stuffed for competent wingers, reliable key defenders and 2nd rotation mids.

You have nailed it. I don?t care who is coaching but I want everyone who is responsible for such a structural imbalance gone.
(to be replaced by knowledgeable WOOF members)

[Danjul]

Good post. I kinda waiver a bit but yeah, unfortunately I think if I had to jump one way or the other, I think you?re right. I hope you?re wrong though!!

I started becoming very worried after ?21 GF when I heard there was no detailed review with players.

Nothing since then has stopped the worry, despite the optimistic messages, revamp of WO, turnover of players & assistant coaches, reviews etc. I hope for good outcomes but I no longer trust my team to deliver them.
What? Not during the glory days in 2017 (post bye) to mid 2020. They were 3 years of garbage for supporters.

[Hotdog60]

I'm a Bevo fan and wish success for him and us but I'm now wondering was he just the cream to Brendan McCartney's cake.
Also we haven't replaced the hard nosed players we had back at that time it's like we have plenty of ying and very little yang.

Please Bevo get something going as we've been spinning wheels for awhile now.

[GVGjr]

I’m firmly in the Bevo Out camp and have been for a few years now. My opinions are my own and they may be right, probably wrong, but they’re mine.
For me this started when Bevo called for a rebuild / refresh in the middle of 2017 and rode out the season playing kids at the expense of premiership players. He, along with Chris Grant saw the writing on the wall and made an early move to rejig the team – rightly or wrongly, he got his way and was green-lighted into building a team more akin to his footballing philosophies.

He and Grant gave copious interviews throughout 2018 and 19 detailing how we’re changing course and whilst we aim to win every game, we are the youngest team in the league for a reason. We rolled out young team after young team, not quite bottoming out but bad enough to snag a few pretty good top10 kids in the process.

Fast forward 7 years, this is Bevo’s team. Warts and all. He’s had his finger on the pulse, as he should, he’s the head coach, of all footballing matters – recruitment, retention, game style / strategy. We can’t look at this team now and say that it has glaring holes and is imbalanced. He’s been at the club for 10 years crafting this list and he owns every bit of it, good and bad.

Bevo’s charm / idiosyncrasies such, Naughton permanent forward and not ever being swung back because, Bevo, zone defending, backing 5m off the mark, Thursday night selection bingo, phone box backwards handballs, Daniel back pocket, waiting 7 years for English to learn how to ruck, the 4 headed impotent monster and the countless other things that I’m sure we could all reel off – none of that will change. They’re the byproduct of his leadership of the football department which he has essentially run for a decade.

I believe he’s had ample time to rebuild this list and have our club in apposition where we’re not losing games to the worst teams of the last 20 years. Our highs are no longer high enough to cover the ever-present lows we all see most weeks and it’s time. It was time last year. The end comes for everyone no matter who you are, and by god his time is well and truly up! (In my opinion)

Excellent contribution and many thanks for it, I think we would all hope to see a few more like it.

To me it's clear that we haven't delivered on our talent but more than most I cut the club some slack for our performance last year given all the challenges we had training away from the WO, a makeshift gym and no home ground for a our VFL side.
On top of that for whatever reason Grant didn't replace Chris Maple form position that the club in place prior to the 2016 flag.
That has been fixed now.

Now that we are back with all the pieces in place including a new assistant coach it's going to be a lot harder to lower expectations and accept a a performance that doesn't have at least a top 8 result.
I really don't want to be be reading constant reports in the media about Bevo's future but that is the nature of business when coaches are in charge of under performing sides.

For many reasons it's all on the line this year. We have traded and recruited like a contending team for a few years now so if that's how the club see's this side then as supporters we need to have lofty goals and question them if we don't deliver on that.

I get that Bevo is the front man for all this although Grant's future should also be linked to the results from his football department.

As supporters we might to to strap ourselves in for a bumpy ride and it's only our ability to rack up some consecutive wins that will start to ease some of the pressure. Given the disappointing performance against Melbourne this game against Gold Coast is really shaping as an important one for the club.

[Go_Dogs]

I?ve been thinking about how this team deals with expectations - not just expectations to win, but it can also be aligned to ?our fittest, strongest and most prepared? side, or even as far as expectations of playing a role against a certain player.

When one teammate misses the mark, it seems we very quickly drop our collective heads - be that the effort level we observe and then consistently deliver chasing tail, making position, running back into space etc.

I wonder how much sports phycology is being used with this group to help us better deal with expectation and pressure to perform, along with how we?re continuing to develop our on-field leadership so we don?t drop our heads and keep each other accountable, and lead by example to execute the plan and standards.

We?ve focussed and invested in this area. Maybe we aren?t quite seeing the results. Cultural transformation can take time.

[doggies ftw]

It's easy to sympathise with the idea this group just needs the air cleared and a fresh voice but must confess I'm also sympathetic to the coach whose job prospects are wedded to a playing list that's a disjointed work in progress, wracked with structural defects and carries half a dozen sub-standard types who struggle at the level more weeks than not.

We're the poster boys for bipolarity and perhaps another coach can wring more out of what we have but there's a sobering argument to be made we're just not equipped to trouble the competition's elite unless a handful of usual suspects plonk the rest on their backs and I'm unconvinced a different bloke blowing the whistle fixes that.

I mean fine, pick your ideal Bevo replacement then digest the fact he's still going to be stuffed for competent wingers, reliable key defenders and 2nd rotation mids.
He?s also going to be gifted one of the best starting on ball duos in the game with the AA ruck, an elite pairing of KPFs and 2nd ruck coming through. An elite half back core etc

Every club has weaknesses, what was said about the GWS & Pies sides before their recent coach changes? Winning games of footy makes a big difference to how talented players are perceived to be.

Unless you truly believe this list isn?t talented enough to make the finals, and thus is NOT underperforming currently, then how can you judge players and a list when knowing the current coaching regime has them underperforming?

This is on Bev, you can?t sack 22 players but when you?ve had 10 years to build a team this is completely on his back, he takes all responsibility - and he?s gotta go asap so we can salvage this season

[mjp]

This can all be resolved by moving Naughton to defence IMHO.

You mean, by moving Naughton back, dropping McNeil and putting West in the centre square right?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

You mean, by moving Naughton back, dropping McNeil and putting West in the centre square right?

With this post you know you've just given a section of posters on this forum a rage boner.. Sometimes you can be a bigger sh1tposter than EW Mike! ;):p

[Go_Dogs]

You mean, by moving Naughton back, dropping McNeil and putting West in the centre square right?

You brilliant SOB

[hujsh]

And who replaces Naughton at FF? Darcy? Wrong. Sweet. In a miraculous turnaround the AFL approves just for the drama, Sweet transfers back to FFC the Friday before

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

And who replaces Naughton at FF? Darcy? Wrong. Sweet. In a miraculous turnaround the AFL approves just for the drama, Sweet transfers back to FFC the Friday before

If I was better tech inclined I'd insert that meme of Vince McMahon increasingly having his mind blown orgasmically by the thought of this full sequence of events coming to be....

[mjp]

And who replaces Naughton at FF? Darcy? Wrong. Sweet. In a miraculous turnaround the AFL approves just for the drama, Sweet transfers back to FFC the Friday before

Get Young back whilst you're at it. If you're gonna go for gold, go hard.

[Grantysghost]

If I was better tech inclined I'd insert that meme of Vince McMahon increasingly having his mind blown orgasmically by the thought of this full sequence of events coming to be....

https://i.imgflip.com/8jykjq.jpg

[mjp]

Good to see we've resumed normal processing around here. :-)

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Good to see we've resumed normal processing around here. :-)

Yeah that was a scary off-season.

[Rocket Science]

It's easy to sympathise with the idea this group just needs the air cleared and a fresh voice but must confess I'm also sympathetic to the coach whose job prospects are wedded to a playing list that's a disjointed work in progress, wracked with structural defects and carries half a dozen sub-standard types who struggle at the level more weeks than not.

We're the poster boys for bipolarity and perhaps another coach can wring more out of what we have but there's a sobering argument to be made we're just not equipped to trouble the competition's elite unless a handful of usual suspects plonk the rest on their backs and I'm unconvinced a different bloke blowing the whistle fixes that.

I mean fine, pick your ideal Bevo replacement then digest the fact he's still going to be stuffed for competent wingers, reliable key defenders and 2nd rotation mids.

----

For clarity, none of that's intended as a defence for retaining the current coach. I'm frankly at pussy's bow and would've thanked him sincerely for his services by this point but given the off-season restructure we'd look like 24 carat chumps if we flinch before giving the new processes sufficient time to bear fruit. I don't know how long that is but it's not a month.

What shits me about the wholly understandable focus on the coach is its tendency to shield large swathes of a playing group who've proven themselves deeply unserious and whose reputation for shrinking in the moment is now their most prominent character trait until they can demonstrate it's not.

None of this is helped by the prevailing theory they're somehow 'better' than they are which I'm sure some of them comfort themselves with at night.

This collective reliably pisses their pants when the stakes are high and there's nothing to suggest it'll be any different with their coach's neck on the chopping block.

[bornadog]

----

For clarity, none of that's intended as a defence for retaining the current coach. I'm frankly at pussy's bow and would've thanked him sincerely for his services by this point but given the off-season restructure we'd look like 24 carat chumps if we flinch before giving the new processes sufficient time to bear fruit. I don't know how long that is but it's not a month.

What shits me about the wholly understandable focus on the coach is its tendency to shield large swathes of a playing group who've proven themselves deeply unserious and whose reputation for shrinking in the moment is now their most prominent character trait until they can demonstrate it's not.

None of this is helped by the prevailing theory they're somehow 'better' than they are which I'm sure some of them comfort themselves with at night.

This collective reliably pisses their pants when the stakes are high and there's nothing to suggest it'll be any different with their coach's neck on the chopping block.

Good post RC, best one in this whole thread.

[Grantysghost]

Good post RC, best one in this whole thread.
Did you see ​the Vince meme?!

[bornadog]

Did you see ​the Vince meme?!

NO. I will admit I don't read everything in this thread, especially after one round

[The Bulldogs Bite]

----

For clarity, none of that's intended as a defence for retaining the current coach. I'm frankly at pussy's bow and would've thanked him sincerely for his services by this point but given the off-season restructure we'd look like 24 carat chumps if we flinch before giving the new processes sufficient time to bear fruit. I don't know how long that is but it's not a month.

What shits me about the wholly understandable focus on the coach is its tendency to shield large swathes of a playing group who've proven themselves deeply unserious and whose reputation for shrinking in the moment is now their most prominent character trait until they can demonstrate it's not.

None of this is helped by the prevailing theory they're somehow 'better' than they are which I'm sure some of them comfort themselves with at night.

This collective reliably pisses their pants when the stakes are high and there's nothing to suggest it'll be any different with their coach's neck on the chopping block.

This is undisputed.

It's impossible to like let alone trust this group.

My take is that despite this, it's Bevo's team. It's what he's put together. There's no flavour from B-Mac, Rocket, or any past coach. This is HIS influence, his choosing, his list.

And if his list - as insipid, lazy and as fragile as they are - continue to fail, ultimately so does he.

[jeemak]

I think we're giving the recruiting and list management personnel a bit of a free pass by saying this is solely Bevo's team. Same with Chris Grant and Ameet Baines who play a huge part in rubber stamping list management strategies.

We have no wings, no genuine mid-size or small forwards who are reliable outside of Weightman, and no quality defensive talls capable of consistently intercepting. Major structural deficiencies to cope with the modern game and this is all on Bevo?

It's simpler to point the finger at Bevo instead of the players, it's simpler to point the finger at Bevo instead of the football department structure. But it's the simplicity in how many are looking at our current situation that I find frustrating.

Imagine if the strong message from the club in the face of media scrutiny that focuses overly on the coach was we need to be better across the board. Imagine if the strong message from the likes of Bont, Libba and Treloar was we decide if we want to chase, we decide if we want to follow instructions, and it's up to us to make sure we do that more consistently. We are accountable for what we dish up, no excuses.

Not sure I heard much of that this past week, nor the second half of last year. We're just letting our coach cop it, and maybe that's the plan.

[bornadog]

I think we're giving the recruiting and list management personnel a bit of a free pass by saying this is solely Bevo's team. Same with Chris Grant and Ameet Baines who play a huge part in rubber stamping list management strategies.

We have no wings, no genuine mid-size or small forwards who are reliable outside of Weightman, and no quality defensive talls capable of consistently intercepting. Major structural deficiencies to cope with the modern game and this is all on Bevo?

It's simpler to point the finger at Bevo instead of the players, it's simpler to point the finger at Bevo instead of the football department structure. But it's the simplicity in how many are looking at our current situation that I find frustrating.

Imagine if the strong message from the club in the face of media scrutiny that focuses overly on the coach was we need to be better across the board. Imagine if the strong message from the likes of Bont, Libba and Treloar was we decide if we want to chase, we decide if we want to follow instructions, and it's up to us to make sure we do that more consistently. We are accountable for what we dish up, no excuses.

Not sure I heard much of that this past week, nor the second half of last year. We're just letting our coach cop it, and maybe that's the plan.

It was only a couple of years ago, we made a GF, so the list was pretty good. All lists have holes in them, and depth is always a problem. Players come and go, which changes the list - balancing the list is not easy.

The players need to take ownership of their own performance.

22 Rounds to go for 2024 - and I continue to look forward to the season.

[Go_Dogs]

I think we're giving the recruiting and list management personnel a bit of a free pass by saying this is solely Bevo's team. Same with Chris Grant and Ameet Baines who play a huge part in rubber stamping list management strategies.

We have no wings, no genuine mid-size or small forwards who are reliable outside of Weightman, and no quality defensive talls capable of consistently intercepting. Major structural deficiencies to cope with the modern game and this is all on Bevo?

It's simpler to point the finger at Bevo instead of the players, it's simpler to point the finger at Bevo instead of the football department structure. But it's the simplicity in how many are looking at our current situation that I find frustrating.

Imagine if the strong message from the club in the face of media scrutiny that focuses overly on the coach was we need to be better across the board. Imagine if the strong message from the likes of Bont, Libba and Treloar was we decide if we want to chase, we decide if we want to follow instructions, and it's up to us to make sure we do that more consistently. We are accountable for what we dish up, no excuses.

Not sure I heard much of that this past week, nor the second half of last year. We're just letting our coach cop it, and maybe that's the plan.

But what club has those pieces consistently in place? And what smaller club like ours without the benefit of being able to recruit those elite players to top up a list does?

All lists have deficiencies and gaps, either through design, misses, injuries etc. it’s really about making the most of what we’ve got more consistently and finding the right players the right roles. 2016 was cobbled together in many ways but the sum of the parts managed to be greater than anyone dares dream over a four week period. 2021 was very nearly the same.

[jeemak]

But what club has those pieces consistently in place? And what smaller club like ours without the benefit of being able to recruit those elite players to top up a list does?

All lists have deficiencies and gaps, either through design, misses, injuries etc. it’s really about making the most of what we’ve got more consistently and finding the right players the right roles. 2016 was cobbled together in many ways but the sum of the parts managed to be greater than anyone dares dream over a four week period. 2021 was very nearly the same.

That's true to an extent, though I think our talent drop off in these areas versus our less vulnerable areas are more pronounced than they have been in the past and versus other teams.

But it would be hypocritical of me to say that's the only thing impacting performance. I'm sure some of it's on Bevo, I'm sure some of it's on the players who take the field every week. Some of it's beyond the control of Bevo and the players. Just some balance in discussion would be less frustrating.

[Go_Dogs]

That's true to an extent, though I think our talent drop off in these areas versus our less vulnerable areas are more pronounced than they have been in the past and versus other teams.

Our list is in transition and we?re reactive to some trends with our scatter gun approach to address areas of weakness. It seems we?re trying to target players with a different athletic profile the last few years which should hold us in reasonable stead if we get the talent identification and development right and these players become members of the side.

I guess my point still stands that most teams are very similar - they?re just perhaps better at papering the cracks than we are and finding a way. Maybe that?s system, or culture, or talent identification or development in some ways too.

[lemmon]

Our list is in transition and we?re reactive to some trends with our scatter gun approach to address areas of weakness. It seems we?re trying to target players with a different athletic profile the last few years which should hold us in reasonable stead if we get the talent identification and development right and these players become members of the side.

I guess my point still stands that most teams are very similar - they?re just perhaps better at papering the cracks than we are and finding a way. Maybe that?s system, or culture, or talent identification or development in some ways too.

Can you be a bit more specific with which players you're referring to in that? I think we've resisted transition and continued to add mature-aged guys with the idea that our window is now and we just need to tweak things around the edges.

[SonofScray]

W-L % for regular season games has dipped below Eade and Wheeler.

The untouchable element of the case for Bevo staying is out the window now, and should never have been a serious part of the discussion. The pressure that is mountain can?t be hand waved away.

Start winning and playing compelling, coherent, competitive football and it goes away.
Make a change and it goes away.

Bumpy ride up ahead, I think we can settle into some good footy and get plenty from the season. Hopefully as is, and will still feel that way if not.

[bornadog]

Can you be a bit more specific with which players you're referring to in that? I think we've resisted transition and continued to add mature-aged guys with the idea that our window is now and we just need to tweak things around the edges.

More than half the team has played 60 games or less. The next highest is B Smith with 103. I would say these guys are in transition. 8 players are 30 plus this year






3
Weightman, Cody (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--cody-weightman)
60
23yr 2mth
15 Jan 2001
179cm
75kg
Dandenong Stingrays
Forward


28
Scott, Anthony (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--anthony-scott)
57
29yr
28 Feb 1995
181cm
79kg
Footscray
Midfield
Forward


17
Coffield, Nicholas (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--nicholas-coffield)
53
24yr 4mth
23 Oct 1999
191cm
90kg
Northern Knights
Defender


43
Gardner, Ryan (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--ryan-gardner)
53
26yr 9mth
1 Jun 1997
197cm
94kg
Burnie Dockers
Defender


2
Ugle-Hagan, Jamarra (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--jamarra-ugle-hagan)
46
21yr 11mth
4 Apr 2002
197cm
91kg
Oakleigh Chargers
Forward


23
Vandermeer, Laitham (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--laitham-vandermeer)
45
25yr 1mth
3 Feb 1999
182cm
78kg
Murray Bushrangers
Defender


30
McNeil, Lachlan (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--lachlan-mcneil) R
43
22yr 6mth
2 Sep 2001
184cm
79kg
Woodville-West Torrens
Forward


14
West, Rhylee (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--rhylee-west)
38
23yr 8mth
12 Jul 2000
183cm
82kg
Calder Cannons
Forward


13
Baker, Oskar (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--oskar-baker) R
33
25yr 9mth
25 May 1998
184cm
87kg
Aspley
Midfield


29
Bramble, Lachlan (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--lachlan-bramble) R
31
25yr 11mth
19 Apr 1998
182cm
77kg
Box Hill
Defender
Midfield


25
Poulter, Caleb (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--caleb-poulter)
21
21yr 5mth
12 Oct 2002
194cm
84kg
Wwt Eagles
Midfield


38
Garcia, Riley (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--riley-garcia)
19
23yr 1mth
30 Jan 2001
178cm
75kg
Swan Districts
Forward


32
Jones, Arthur (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--arthur-jones)
13
20yr 8mth
18 Jul 2003
180cm
71kg
Claremont
Forward


18
O'Donnell, James (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--james-o-donnell) R
12
21yr 6mth
31 Aug 2002
197cm
88kg
Cricket
Defender


24
Khamis, Buku (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--buku-khamis) R
11
23yr 11mth
24 Mar 2000
191cm
87kg
Western Jets
Forward


10
Darcy, Sam (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--sam-darcy)
7
20yr 8mth
19 Jul 2003
208cm
97kg
Oakleigh Chargers
Forward


36
Cleary, Luke (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--luke-cleary)
5
22yr
5 Mar 2002
191cm
81kg
Sandringham Dragons
Defender


26
Bedendo, Dominic (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--dominic-bedendo)
2
21yr 8mth
9 Jul 2002
191cm
80kg
Murray Bushrangers
Midfield


12
Gallagher, Harvey (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--harvey-gallagher)
1
20yr 5mth
26 Sep 2003
181cm
78kg
Bendigo Pioneers
Forward


9
Sanders, Ryley (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--ryley-sanders)
1
19yr 1mth
21 Jan 2005
186cm
86kg
Sandringham Dragons
Midfield


5
Busslinger, Jedd (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--jedd-busslinger)
0
20yr
11 Mar 2004
198cm
85kg
East Perth
Defender


8
Clarke, Charlie (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--charlie-clarke)
0
20yr 2mth
4 Jan 2004
183cm
81kg
Sandringham Dragons
Forward


16
Croft, Jordan (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--jordan-croft)
0
18yr 10mth
12 May 2005
201cm
81kg
Calder Cannons
Forward


27
Freijah, Joel (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--joel-freijah)
0
18yr 4mth
14 Nov 2005
191cm
88kg
Greater Western Victoria Rebels
Midfield
Forward


37
O'Driscoll, Aiden (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--aiden-o-driscoll)
0
18yr 7mth
22 Jul 2005
176cm
70kg
Perth
Forward


40
Smith, Lachlan (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--lachlan-smith-1)
0
18yr 5mth
5 Oct 2005
203cm
101kg
Gippsland Power
Ruck

[Grantysghost]

I think we're giving the recruiting and list management personnel a bit of a free pass by saying this is solely Bevo's team. Same with Chris Grant and Ameet Baines who play a huge part in rubber stamping list management strategies.

We have no wings, no genuine mid-size or small forwards who are reliable outside of Weightman, and no quality defensive talls capable of consistently intercepting. Major structural deficiencies to cope with the modern game and this is all on Bevo?

It's simpler to point the finger at Bevo instead of the players, it's simpler to point the finger at Bevo instead of the football department structure. But it's the simplicity in how many are looking at our current situation that I find frustrating.

Imagine if the strong message from the club in the face of media scrutiny that focuses overly on the coach was we need to be better across the board. Imagine if the strong message from the likes of Bont, Libba and Treloar was we decide if we want to chase, we decide if we want to follow instructions, and it's up to us to make sure we do that more consistently. We are accountable for what we dish up, no excuses.

Not sure I heard much of that this past week, nor the second half of last year. We're just letting our coach cop it, and maybe that's the plan.
Is it Bevo's team if we win?

[Go_Dogs]

Can you be a bit more specific with which players you're referring to in that? I think we've resisted transition and continued to add mature-aged guys with the idea that our window is now and we just need to tweak things around the edges.

Couple of points I’m trying to make:

I look at recruitment of players like Poulter, Baker etc as attempts to address a need / weakness on the list. The same can be said for key defensive posts with Keath, Jones (got lucky) and Gardner to an extent, along with JOD.

We’ve also gone for players like Gags, Clarke, Sanders, AOD, JOD, Freijah, who all seem to have elite running traits (either endurance or power) and a level of agility that we haven’t always recruited for.

Just my observation of course. By a list in transition, as more of this second group begin to cement themselves and we continue with the philosophy of drafting players with a certain athletic profile, we’ll be more equipped to deal with some other sides who are more advanced in these areas.

[jeemak]

Is it Bevo's team if we win?

Yeah, for sure. I'm a Bevo acolyte who can only look at things broadly when it suits me.

[DadBod]

It's an interesting time to be alive. If the season continues like this I can't see Bevo lasting past round 5. I want him to succeed, because if he does, then we do but I can't see it at the moment, really since the 2021 GF. Since then, there seems a distinct lack of "Giving a shit" by the team. If he does go, his replacement will be interesting. Lade would probably take over, but maybe we'd go after King, or Cameron.

[my plums]

I’ll unhappily watch this week but I think I’m done if we dish up the same old boring footy.

[EasternWest]

I’ll unhappily watch this week but I think I’m done if we dish up the same old boring footy.

We're Bulldogs fans. We're carved from misery. We always come back.

[angelopetraglia]

We're Bulldogs fans. We're carved from misery. We always come back.

It is in our DNA. Losing seven Prelims in a row builds all kinds of resistance.

[EasternWest]

It is in our DNA. Losing seven Prelims in a row builds all kinds of resistance.

I hate that this is true!

[Happy Days]

It is in our DNA. Losing seven Prelims in a row builds all kinds of resistance.

We’ve fixed that to be fair. Now we lose grand finals and also home and away matches in rounds greater than 18. Prelims were automatic though.

[Sedat]

We?ve fixed that to be fair. Now we lose grand finals and also home and away matches in rounds greater than 18. Prelims were automatic though.
Hell yes, the best football we've played in our entire history was in a PF less than 3 years ago. I lived through the 0-7 PF years of 1985-2010 and I much prefer the 2-0 PF years of 2016-2021.

[EasternWest]

Hell yes, the best football we've played in our entire history was in a PF less than 3 years ago. I lived through the 0-7 PF years of 1985-2010 and I much prefer the 2-0 PF years of 2016-2021.

I agree with this in principle but can't go past the 2016 PF as the greatest Bulldogs performance ever.

[Bulldog4life]

We're Bulldogs fans. We're carved from misery. We always come back.

Especially when you experienced the super bad days.

[EasternWest]

https://i.postimg.cc/SstT23Xc/images-14.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Testify

[angelopetraglia]

I agree with this in principle but can't go past the 2016 PF as the greatest Bulldogs performance ever.

Agree 100%

[EasternWest]

Agree 100%

I always said you and me were stable geniuses AP.

[angelopetraglia]

I always said you and me were stable geniuses AP.


Ha.

Not just smart but geniuses ?.. and very stable geniuses at that!

[FrediKanoute]

An opening loss to the Demons which was beyond poor
A solid win against The Suns, an improving team, but still not complete
A great win against WCE, a team that is about as poor as you can get
A loss to The Cats, a game we were capable of winning and should have won
A loss to the injury depleted Bombers in another insipid display

We are 2-3 after 5 games. Its time.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

How long he's given will be interesting. Feels we're delaying the inevitable though.

Would he be gone at 2-5? Does he make it to the halfway point?

Given the big changing to the coaching group I find it hard to see them doing it soon, but it's impossible to see him survive. We're in a crap position.

[westdog54]

Reality is he's contracted to the end of next year. There's no way he gets posted five rounds in.

That being said, it wouldn't surprise me to see him resign before seasons end if we're struggling.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Reality is he's contracted to the end of next year. There's no way he gets posted five rounds in.

That being said, it wouldn't surprise me to see him resign before seasons end if we're struggling.

Is it end of next year? I thought it was end of this year?

[azabob]

Reality is he's contracted to the end of next year. There's no way he gets posted five rounds in.

That being said, it wouldn't surprise me to see him resign before seasons end if we're struggling.

Bevo will need to be told.

He won’t walk regardless of the win loss ratio

[Happy Days]

I love Bevo. I don’t want it to not work and I think that’s what holding me up from wanting him to be taken to the town square.

Is it kind of unfair to a really talented list to essentially cede a season in round 5?

[FrediKanoute]

I love Bevo. I don’t want it to not work and I think that’s what holding me up from wanting him to be taken to the town square.

Is it kind of unfair to a really talented list to essentially cede a season in round 5?

It would be unfairer to a talented list to allow them to underperform and do nothing. AFL careers are short. Some guys play a handful of games. The way we are playing we are mid table. Not bad enough to bottom out, but not good enough to play finals and win. Is that fair?

[lemmon]

There's no real point to bottoming out this season anyway - we've traded away our first rounder.

For mine the question is - do we think a different coach with no pre-season and without much time to implement their game-plan will get more from this group than what Beveridge will this year?

If the answer is yes, the sooner we make the call, the better. If the answer is no, we might as well give Bevo the bulk of the season to see whether he can get this group into the 8.

I think we probably made the wrong call by not sacking Beveridge at the end of last year, but we didn't and now we probably need to dance with the one we came with.

[MrMahatma]

I love Bevo. I don’t want it to not work and I think that’s what holding me up from wanting him to be taken to the town square.

Is it kind of unfair to a really talented list to essentially cede a season in round 5?

I’m with you.

It’s time. A professional club, that exists to win, would move him now. This season is wasted under him. 1% chance it’s a success under any one else, but we shouldn’t fall into the trap of letting the season play out. Under the current regime this season is over. Change is required.

[angelopetraglia]

Just listened to the presser. Questions about where you are at as a group. Played nine players under 50 games tonight. Are you playing for the now or the future was a question asked.

He anwsered the question diplomatically. My gut feel is that after the review, maybe they don't have an expectation of a top four spot this year or being a real contender. Maybe they are blooding some younger talent and looking to the future. David King mentioned somehting similar on the first crack a couple of weeks ago.

Maybe he is going to get a chance and a mini rebuild. That is the feeling I'm getting. I really feel like they have come to the realisation that we really don't have the talent to compete right now or the proper list balance.

[MrMahatma]

Just listened to the presser. Questions about where you are at as a group. Played nine players under 50 games tonight. Are you playing for the now or the future was a question asked.

He anwsered the question diplomatically. My gut feel is that after the review, maybe they don't have an expectation of a top four spot this year or being a real contender. Maybe they are blooding some younger talent and looking to the future. David King mentioned somehting similar on the first crack a couple of weeks ago.

Maybe he is going to get a chance and a mini rebuild. That is the feeling I'm getting. I really feel like they have come to the realisation that we really don't have the talent to compete right now or the proper list balance.

We just lost to a rabble Bombers team. Rebuild or whatever…. That is enough for a sacking.

No effort. No passion. No care at all tonight.

Stop
Wasting
Time

[angelopetraglia]

We just lost to a rabble Bombers team. Rebuild or whatever…. That is enough for a sacking.

No effort. No passion. No care at all tonight.

Stop
Wasting
Time

I'm hearing you. I just think there is something else that happened over the preseason. Guidance to Bevo to get the balance right and not pull all chips in for the now. Just the way he is speaking and some of the noise coming from other journos.

[Pleather Sole]

It would be unfairer to a talented list to allow them to underperform and do nothing. AFL careers are short. Some guys play a handful of games. The way we are playing we are mid table. Not bad enough to bottom out, but not good enough to play finals and win. Is that fair?

Yep. If Bevo graciously stood down this week and Egan stepped up as interim there's enough time to get this team to finals. Egan was at Melbourne & Geelong two very recent premiership outfits. Bevo has complained about support, facilities, soft caps, hard caps, staff issues, etc etc etc Everything has gone up a level since August 2023, new coaches, structure. Reviews reviews reviews. But he's lost the players again in a similar vein to the West Coast debacle. No excuses. Its time for him to go.

[Vred]

Just listened to the presser. Questions about where you are at as a group. Played nine players under 50 games tonight. Are you playing for the now or the future was a question asked.

He anwsered the question diplomatically. My gut feel is that after the review, maybe they don't have an expectation of a top four spot this year or being a real contender. Maybe they are blooding some younger talent and looking to the future. David King mentioned somehting similar on the first crack a couple of weeks ago.

Maybe he is going to get a chance and a mini rebuild. That is the feeling I'm getting. I really feel like they have come to the realisation that we really don't have the talent to compete right now or the proper list balance.

Then say that. All the chatter out of the club before the season started was ''we're going for finals this year'' - everybody from KWW down to the players.

5 games in and it's ''oh shit, mini-rebuild time?''

Ship with no captain. Directionless, we don't know what we're doing, all I know is that we aren't winning another final under Bevo.

[jeemak]

Just listened to the presser. Questions about where you are at as a group. Played nine players under 50 games tonight. Are you playing for the now or the future was a question asked.

He anwsered the question diplomatically. My gut feel is that after the review, maybe they don't have an expectation of a top four spot this year or being a real contender. Maybe they are blooding some younger talent and looking to the future. David King mentioned somehting similar on the first crack a couple of weeks ago.

Maybe he is going to get a chance and a mini rebuild. That is the feeling I'm getting. I really feel like they have come to the realisation that we really don't have the talent to compete right now or the proper list balance.

There was a guy on this board who said it feels eerily like the 19-20 build up, but he didn't want to give anyone an excuse.

I don't for a second think the club isn't trying to push for deep finals contention irrespective of ladder position, it's just shitting the bed too much. There's no way Bevo is given rebuild leniency in today's climate.

[angelopetraglia]

Then say that. All the chatter out of the club before the season started was ''we're going for finals this year'' - everybody from KWW down to the players.

5 games in and it's ''oh shit, mini-rebuild time?''

Ship with no captain. Directionless, we don't know what we're doing, all I know is that we aren't winning another final under Bevo.

What else are they going to say when you are trying to build hope and momentum and membership?

Just a feeling I'm getting. You could make a hyphothesis that it is Bevo angling to keep his job. But it is just a feeling that I got listening to the presser and few journos.

[SonofScray]

Hopefully we only have one more week of this absolute joyless, meandering waste of time that our current brand of footy under Bevo is.

The next 7 days should be about someone at the club mustering the courage to make a move. Luke, for as good a person he is, he is finished as coach of our club.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

That feeling you get when we're going bad and then remember we've traded away our 1st this year. Things are bleak.

[Go_Dogs]

Maybe I’m just an eternal optimist, but things can change quickly in footy.

We’ve got a new game plan which is more focussed on scores from turnovers and executing a better defensive transition and work rate without the ball. We haven’t executed this consistently. We’re learning. It may improve.

We’ve got a bunch of new coaches and development folk who’ll be working on discrete things and continuing to mould players and plans over the course of the season. Let’s see if it’s fruitful.

We’ve got some new and developing players getting more responsibility. Let’s keep them going and get a few more players in to see if they’re going to be capable at the level. We need team first players who can execute the plan and have the running power and intent. I’d love to see Garcia and Clarke come in sooner rather than later and more to come. Let’s keep giving Darcy and Sando and Gags opportunities (and also keep them fresh). We do need to transition our list on the fly as all clubs do.

We’ve seen growth in a few players like Marra, West, Buku who are in the age bracket we can expect to start to see their better football. That’s a positive. They’ve got more growth to come but have progressed from 12 months back clearly.

We’ve got Bont, Libba and Treloar who despite not being perfect in all facets of the game are incredible players and playing at a very high level.

There is enough good stuff here, growth and development - but we absolutely need this to start transitioning to improved performance on match day consistently and near term.

I’d see how we’re looking at mid season. A run and we’re back in the mix. A good week, becomes a good month….

[SonofScray]

Maybe I’m just an eternal optimist, but things can change quickly in footy.

We’ve got a new game plan which is more focussed on scores from turnovers and executing a better defensive transition and work rate without the ball. We haven’t executed this consistently. We’re learning. It may improve.

We’ve got a bunch of new coaches and development folk who’ll be working on discrete things and continuing to mould players and plans over the course of the season. Let’s see if it’s fruitful.

We’ve got some new and developing players getting more responsibility. Let’s keep them going and get a few more players in to see if they’re going to be capable at the level. We need team first players who can execute the plan and have the running power and intent. I’d love to see Garcia and Clarke come in sooner rather than later and more to come. Let’s keep giving Darcy and Sando and Gags opportunities (and also keep them fresh). We do need to transition our list on the fly as all clubs do.

We’ve seen growth in a few players like Marra, West, Buku who are in the age bracket we can expect to start to see their better football. That’s a positive. They’ve got more growth to come but have progressed from 12 months back clearly.

We’ve got Bont, Libba and Treloar who despite not being perfect in all facets of the game are incredible players and playing at a very high level.

There is enough good stuff here, growth and development - but we absolutely need this to start transitioning to improved performance on match day consistently and near term.

I’d see how we’re looking at mid season. A run and we’re back in the mix. A good week, becomes a good month….
That’s a great quality to have and it is true.

However, the absolute generosity extended to Bevo is getting ridiculous. We’re in ground hog day, wasting away the opportunities that present themselves year to year in the hope that it all clicks.

I was fine with changing everything up around Bevo, it was a reasonable outcome and would have had to happen if we brought in a new coach anyway to give them the best crack at it. At some point though, the head coach has to be responsible. He’s up the front trying to pull everyone along and it’s just not working.

Could be that the players aren’t buying in.
Could be that the game tactically is beyond his skill now.
Could be that it’s all just happened too late and the damage to his brand/experience is done.

We are going nowhere and have been going nowhere for years now. It’s not the end of the world to sack a coach, it happens hundreds of times a year in professional sport. The club needs to stop living in awe of the bloke, trying to salvage his tenure and just move on.

All those good things you mentioned exist at Whitten Oval the day after we sack Bevo.

[Go_Dogs]

That’s a great quality to have and it is true.

However, the absolute generosity extended to Bevo is getting ridiculous. We’re in ground hog day, wasting away the opportunities that present themselves year to year in the hope that it all clicks.

I was fine with changing everything up around Bevo, it was a reasonable outcome and would have had to happen if we brought in a new coach anyway to give them the best crack at it. At some point though, the head coach has to be responsible. He’s up the front trying to pull everyone along and it’s just not working.

Could be that the players aren’t buying in.
Could be that the game tactically is beyond his skill now.
Could be that it’s all just happened too late and the damage to his brand/experience is done.

We are going nowhere and have been going nowhere for years now. It’s not the end of the world to sack a coach, it happens hundreds of times a year in professional sport. The club needs to stop living in awe of the bloke, trying to salvage his tenure and just move on.

All those good things you mentioned exist at Whitten Oval the day after we sack Bevo.

I absolutely hear you, and if the club decides a change is the best option I’m not going to argue it’s the wrong outcome. There’s definitely enough to suggest we could and should make a change, and also enough to suggest we’re transitioning and have optimising things could and should change across the balance of the first half of the season.

I suppose the logical question that the club needs to weigh is who is available right now that would do a better job? It seems an early call to interim a coach for 17 weeks before we see who may be available at years end - unless there’s someone we think is absolutely the right candidate we could add immediately (internal or external).

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I absolutely hear you, and if the club decides a change is the best option I’m not going to argue it’s the wrong outcome. There’s definitely enough to suggest we could and should make a change, and also enough to suggest we’re transitioning and have optimising things could and should change across the balance of the first half of the season.

I suppose the logical question that the club needs to weigh is who is available right now that would do a better job? It seems an early call to interim a coach for 17 weeks before we see who may be available at years end - unless there’s someone we think is absolutely the right candidate we could add immediately (internal or external).

Yeah there's no point moving Bevo on now. It's too early and would be a very early white flag for the players. Things can turn around but I don't think they will. Bevo is done and we should be sussing out the best candidates to take over next season. But we won't achieve much sacking him at round 5.

[G-Mo77]

Yeah there's no point moving Bevo on now. It's too early and would be a very early white flag for the players. Things can turn around but I don't think they will. Bevo is done and we should be sussing out the best candidates to take over next season. But we won't achieve much sacking him at round 5.

Why is there no point. We should have made the call straight after the season finished. What would be wrong with pulling the pin now and focussing on salvaging what we can for 2024 while building for 2025. Let Egan or Lade take over for now and start the search for next season. I find it hard to see any positives keeping him on.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Why is there no point. We should have made the call straight after the season finished. What would be wrong with pulling the pin now and focussing on salvaging what we can for 2024 while building for 2025. Let Egan or Lade take over for now and start the search for next season. I find it hard to see any positives keeping him on.

Oh I agree it should've been done last season.

Sacking a coach at round 5 would send the wrong message to the players.....unless its what they want.....

[AshMac]

As soon as a coach loses the players there is no return. We have former stars on the outer - happens every single year with different players - and we continue to be beaten by our bogey teams easily and bulky the weak teams.

Last night I saw two of the worst teams play each other I?ve seen for a long time. Essendon are VFL quality at the moment and they destroyed us.

It?s one game - but one more game at the end of a very long line of one games where the same problems present and we fail to respond to a teams gameplan

[ledge]

Can I just make a point on this loss, yes it’s bad but look at the starts from Collingwood, Brisbane, you can come good as your players start to click together, it’s been a whole new change around them.
The games we won have been big wins and I rate GC as a pretty good team.
I think we give it a few more weeks and see if we can get more consistency.
I do think this season is a no excuse season over all for Bevo though and if the stories are true about Grant and Bevo, well Grant will get his way if the season continues like last night.

[SonofScray]

Can I just make a point on this loss, yes it’s bad but look at the starts from Collingwood, Brisbane, you can come good as your players start to click together, it’s been a whole new change around them.
The games we won have been big wins and I rate GC as a pretty good team.
I think we give it a few more weeks and see if we can get more consistency.
I do think this season is a no excuse season over all for Bevo though and if the stories are true about Grant and Bevo, well Grant will get his way if the season continues like last night.

It’s not going to turn around.

We are getting more of the same, it’s like Groundhog Day. All we are doing is delaying the inevitable and ultimately, wasting time.

[Mofra]

Can I just make a point on this loss, yes it’s bad but look at the starts from Collingwood, Brisbane, you can come good as your players start to click together, it’s been a whole new change around them.
A loss doesn't matter.

The way you lose matters, and last night was just listless, spiritless. We fought hard against Geelong. We didn't fire a shot last night. Teams ready to be a threat in September just don't lose like that.

[ledge]

Let’s see how we go against the saints, I think one game can be excused but if we start playing like that in two or three in a row then it’s time to get stuck into what’s going on.