What - the glass is half full??!

[Grantysghost]

Ok - we lost.

Well we got pummelled by the most hateable bunch of pompous,supercilious nerf herders in the galaxy!

However, so what yeah,...right...,woofers...,am I right? I'm right.

So grab Caesar's leash, put on your favourite podcast (Danny Boyd) and let's take a walk down positivity street.

I'll start.

Bevo's new teeth and old man glasses. He really gave of the look of a wise elderly gent sitting down at the local mall watching the world go by whilst doing the crossword.

Big Chili - He faced the two toughest ruckman in the game AT THE SAME TIME and held his own, me likey what I see-ey.

Eduardo Richardo - Boy oh boy Ed was amazing. He broke records, he was everywhere and he has guns bigger than Arnie. Get some money on him for the B&F.

The breakup - We all took Adz's side in the breakup and man did we back the right horse. I've always backed this guy and boy oh boy did he deliver. His best game for the club I believe, and he can only get better with more midfield time. Josh who?

There's more but I'll save them for others !

My fellow WOOFERS, what did you find you could grab from the fire this week to give you some positivity for the rest of the season?

[Happy Days]

Leaving the inability of the midfield to generate a repeat stoppage to the side for a second, the mitigation measures we did bring in (Lobb as a supporting ruck, Jones as a key defender) weren’t really allowed to be tested due to injury. I think that goes at least a little bit toward beating the “we’ve learned nothing and we’re stupid idiots who suck” allegations.

[Grantysghost]

Leaving the inability of the midfield to generate a repeat stoppage to the side for a second, the mitigation measures we did bring in (Lobb as a supporting ruck, Jones as a key defender) weren’t really allowed to be tested due to injury. I think that goes at least a little bit toward beating the “we’ve learned nothing and we’re stupid idiots who suck” allegations.

Yes agree I think the hope is still there with those two.

We all saw Lobb last year and he was nowhere near that for a good reason!

[bornadog]

Bevo's remarks in the members Video indicated he wasn't happy with players not following instructions on defense. We trained all summer for a new defensive system and it broke down. The Positive is - the coach and the boys will be going through this again during the week and seeing where we broke down and what we should be doing. The boys will come out firing this week as they are also hurting badly. Let's get behind them and destroy the Saints.

[Danjul]

Ok - we lost.

Well we got pummelled by the most hateable bunch of pompous,supercilious nerf herders in the galaxy!

However, so what yeah,...right...,woofers...,am I right? I'm right.

So grab Caesar's leash, put on your favourite podcast (Danny Boyd) and let's take a walk down positivity street.

I'll start.

Bevo's new teeth and old man glasses. He really gave of the look of a wise elderly gent sitting down at the local mall watching the world go by whilst doing the crossword.

Big Chili - He faced the two toughest ruckman in the game AT THE SAME TIME and held his own, me likey what I see-ey.

Eduardo Richardo - Boy oh boy Ed was amazing. He broke records, he was everywhere and he has guns bigger than Arnie. Get some money on him for the B&F.

The breakup - We all took Adz's side in the breakup and man did we back the right horse. I've always backed this guy and boy oh boy did he deliver. His best game for the club I believe, and he can only get better with more midfield time. Josh who?

There's more but I'll save them for others !

My fellow WOOFERS, what did you find you could grab from the fire this week to give you some positivity for the rest of the season?

I feel much better because of your positivity. We only lost by 50 points. The gods were on our side during the second half when Melbourne could only manage behinds despite having 3x our shots at goal. Yep, it was fine.

Thanks for the lift.

Now all I have to deal with is the fact that for the time on period of the second quarter we could have done just as well if we put 21 players on the bench. And our second half would have been better because they would have been more rested. The margin would have been only 49 points.

[Danjul]

Leaving the inability of the midfield to generate a repeat stoppage to the side for a second, the mitigation measures we did bring in (Lobb as a supporting ruck, Jones as a key defender) weren’t really allowed to be tested due to injury. I think that goes at least a little bit toward beating the “we’ve learned nothing and we’re stupid idiots who suck” allegations.
Sorry, it reinforces that we learn nothing. After playing an injured Weightman and then Bruce last year we start off the new, shiny fresh season playing Lobb knowing he had an injury. Then the club says we can ignore the fact that he was useless because we picked an unfit player.

You should be outraged.

[Happy Days]

Sorry, it reinforces that we learn nothing. After playing an injured Weightman and then Bruce last year we start off the new, shiny fresh season playing Lobb knowing he had an injury. Then the club says we can ignore the fact that he was useless because we picked an unfit player.

You should be outraged.

You did read the OP right

[Grantysghost]

Sorry, it reinforces that we learn nothing. After playing an injured Weightman and then Bruce last year we start off the new, shiny fresh season playing Lobb knowing he had an injury. Then the club says we can ignore the fact that he was useless because we picked an unfit player.

You should be outraged.

Positive vibes in this thread Danj!

Give me something you liked.

[GVGjr]

Sorry, it reinforces that we learn nothing. After playing an injured Weightman and then Bruce last year we start off the new, shiny fresh season playing Lobb knowing he had an injury. Then the club says we can ignore the fact that he was useless because we picked an unfit player.

You should be outraged.

Lobb effectively got injured the week before R1 and we rolled the dice with his selection before realising it need some surgery. Poorly diagnosed no doubt but prior to that he had been in full training mode for weeks without issue.

[GVGjr]

Lobb effectively got injured the week before R1 and we rolled the dice with his selection before realising it need some surgery. Poorly diagnosed no doubt but prior to that he had been in full training mode for weeks without issue.

My god can he roost a football. He's going to kick some goals from 60mtrs out at Marvel.

[hujsh]

I feel much better because of your positivity. We only lost by 50 points. The gods were on our side during the second half when Melbourne could only manage behinds despite having 3x our shots at goal. Yep, it was fine.

Thanks for the lift.

Now all I have to deal with is the fact that for the time on period of the second quarter we could have done just as well if we put 21 players on the bench. And our second half would have been better because they would have been more rested. The margin would have been only 49 points.

I get you mostly comment after losses so we probably have different goals from interacting with WOOF, but there are no shortage of threads lamenting the result you can participate in. There's no need to comment on the two posts in a 'glass half full' thread if you're that opposed to it.

[bornadog]

Lobb effectively got injured the week before R1 and we rolled the dice with his selection before realising it need some surgery. Poorly diagnosed no doubt but prior to that he had been in full training mode for weeks without issue.

Not necessarily poorly diagnosed. The responsibility also lies with the player. They may feel they are right to go, but when they get out there for a full game - it plays up. He played out the North game didn't he?

[Grantysghost]

My god can he roost a football. He's going to kick some goals from 60mtrs out at Marvel.

I walked out with him (behind him) from the sponsors event and he is a monster!

Love that he was driving a hilux too so wa stereo typed.

I reckon he is going to murder a few footsies at marvel.

[Grantysghost]

Not necessarily poorly diagnosed. The responsibility also lies with the player. They may feel they are right to go, but when they get out there for a full game - it plays up. He played out the North game didn't he?

Positive is it's been cleaned out and he should be good to go for the majority of the season.

[bornadog]

Positive is it's been cleaned out and he should be good to go for the majority of the season.

Yep better now than later when we might really need him.

[Danjul]

Positive vibes in this thread Danj!

Give me something you liked.

I really liked the fact that the game ended before I ran out of things to throw at the TV.

[MrMahatma]

Marra showed signs. Got to the right spot a few times. A few almost moments. His upside is still huge. He'll clunk a few soon and it'll be game on. Probably this week actually. Put him down for a 5er.

[Grantysghost]

I really liked the fact that the game ended before I ran out of things to throw at the TV.

Haha. Gold. See now you've got it xD

[Grantysghost]

Marra showed signs. Got to the right spot a few times. A few almost moments. His upside is still huge. He'll clunk a few soon and it'll be game on. Probably this week actually. Put him down for a 5er.

Yes I think that dropped mark really curtailed what was shaping up to be a big game.

This week as you say.

[The Underdog]

Aside from the football which wasn’t much fun, I got to spend the evening at the G which I hadn’t done since before Covid, with my 11 yo daughter eating way to much chocolate and explaining to her for the hundredth time how you score the goals and points in the record.
I got to see Ed Richards again (sigh), left halfway through the last quarter, listened to The Jayhawks “Rainy Day Music” on the way home, watched the second half of The Menu, read some of my book and went to bed.
So again, aside from the football, pretty great night.
And then the following morning my daughter, who was AT THE GAME, asked me who won. Sweet sweet oblivious

[azabob]

Aside from the football which wasn’t much fun, I got to spend the evening at the G which I hadn’t done since before Covid, with my 11 yo daughter eating way to much chocolate and explaining to her for the hundredth time how you score the goals and points in the record.
I got to see Ed Richards again (sigh), left halfway through the last quarter, listened to The Jayhawks “Rainy Day Music” on the way home, watched the second half of The Menu, read some of my book and went to bed.
So again, aside from the football, pretty great night.
And then the following morning my daughter, who was AT THE GAME, asked me who won. Sweet sweet oblivious

Did you ask her to check the record to see who won?

[SonofScray]

I dropped my glass. Then stood on the broken bits,

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We'll beat the Saints this week.

[chef]

We'll beat the Saints this week.

Agree, will be pretty comfortable too.

[Grantysghost]

We'll beat the Saints this week.

Damn right.

[bulldogtragic]

We'll beat the Saints this week.

Only if Liam Jones can play and stop Zaine the forward.

[The Underdog]

Did you ask her to check the record to see who won?

To be fair, we left before the end, so there was no final score in it.

[bornadog]

To be fair, we left before the end, so there was no final score in it.

Great to spend time with your daughter at the footy. Cherish those moments as she grows into her teens

[bornadog]

Double

[FrediKanoute]

Final Scoreline aside we were in the match for a loooong time. If we had kick accurately we would probably not have put ourselves under pressure despite the fact that a lot of what we wanted to didn't work.

[josie]

The game we beat Dees last year we kicked hard, low, zig zagging kicks. A bit like what Pies did last year and last week.

I’d like to think we can be brave like that again. Yes there will be a few clangers but we won’t match it with the best without a bit of derring do. So I’m glass half full Bevo & Team can turn it around this week and have us feeling positive.

[bulldogtragic]

Still?

[Topdog]

Glass may have been half full but it has a hole in the bottom

[The Doctor]

I'll tell you you all a story.

It's 1987. Round 3 has just been completed and we are dead last on the ladder 0-3. Our results were;

R1: Dogs to lose to Essendon by 59 points

R2: Dogs lose to Sydney by 108 points (27.25.187 to 11.13.79)

R3: Dogs lose to Carlton by 87 points

Prior to this, to finish off the 1986 season with the Dogs a chance to go back to back finals for the first time since forever,

R21: Dogs lose to Carlton by 79 points. (The Brad Hardie jumper waving game)

R22: Dogs lose to Hawthorn by 70 points.


5 absolute smashings in a row. We were so optimistic after 1985 that the Bulldogs were going to become a great side at long last. What was happening? The club is crumbling again, Malthouse is under pressure.

Come Round 4 the desperate and hopeless Bulldogs were about to face the reigning & undefeated premier Hawthorn. The hawks had won their opening 3 games of the season by 45, 62 & 77 points. On their way to winning the premiership in 86 they were dishing out spankings regularly including a 135 point belting to Geelong. What chance did we have?

R4: Footscray 14.12.96 defeated Hawthorn 7.13.55. dogs win by 41 points.

Don't ask me how it works. Footy is a funny and unpredictable game. We got our season back on track and going into round 22 were playing for a spot in the finals. There is no fairytale ending. But we fought out the season and gave ourselves a chance.

Like everyone I'm not happy with how we are travelling at the moment but I'm not joining in on the Bevo pile on. He deserves a chance to pull us out of the fire. After all, he has been good enough to get us to 2 grand finals, something no one before him has been able to achieve for us in the VFL/AFL.

[Grantysghost]

Still?

Qtr full

[JanLorMill]

I'll tell you you all a story.

It's 1987. Round 3 has just been completed and we are dead last on the ladder 0-3. Our results were;

R1: Dogs to lose to Essendon by 59 points

R2: Dogs lose to Sydney by 108 points (27.25.187 to 11.13.79)

R3: Dogs lose to Carlton by 87 points

Prior to this, to finish off the 1986 season with the Dogs a chance to go back to back finals for the first time since forever,

R21: Dogs lose to Carlton by 79 points. (The Brad Hardie jumper waving game)

R22: Dogs lose to Hawthorn by 70 points.


5 absolute smashings in a row. We were so optimistic after 1985 that the Bulldogs were going to become a great side at long last. What was happening? The club is crumbling again, Malthouse is under pressure.

Come Round 4 the desperate and hopeless Bulldogs were about to face the reigning & undefeated premier Hawthorn. The hawks had won their opening 3 games of the season by 45, 62 & 77 points. On their way to winning the premiership in 86 they were dishing out spankings regularly including a 135 point belting to Geelong. What chance did we have?

R4: Footscray 14.12.96 defeated Hawthorn 7.13.55. dogs win by 41 points.

Don't ask me how it works. Footy is a funny and unpredictable game. We got our season back on track and going into round 22 were playing for a spot in the finals. There is no fairytale ending. But we fought out the season and gave ourselves a chance.

Like everyone I'm not happy with how we are travelling at the moment but I'm not joining in on the Bevo pile on. He deserves a chance to pull us out of the fire. He has been good enough to get us to 2 grand finals something no one before him has achieved in the VFL/AFL.
All well and good but we didn’t make finals in 1987 or with Malthouse ever again.

[The Doctor]

All well and good but we didn’t make finals in 1987 or with Malthouse ever again.

True, but that isn't quite the point. The point is we have a proven coach who has lifted us up when we were down. Like Malthouse, he deserves a chance to turn it around. After all he achieved much more for us than Malthouse did.

[Grantysghost]

True, but that isn't quite the point. The point is we have a proven coach who has lifted us up when we were down. Like Malthouse, he deserves a chance to turn it around. After all he achieved much more for us than Malthouse did.

We certainly aren't this bad.

Rd 1, well we played almost the best side so most of us can cop that one.
Last night was terrible, however we have made adjustments over the off season and these things can take time. Somehow Ross the boss can make it happen straight away that can be the new coach thing though.


We definitely needed the two practise games we seem to have stuffed that up.

Let's give them a chance to see if they can implement what the coaches are trying to do.

[bornadog]

I'll tell you you all a story.

It's 1987. Round 3 has just been completed and we are dead last on the ladder 0-3. Our results were;

R1: Dogs to lose to Essendon by 59 points

R2: Dogs lose to Sydney by 108 points (27.25.187 to 11.13.79)

R3: Dogs lose to Carlton by 87 points

Prior to this, to finish off the 1986 season with the Dogs a chance to go back to back finals for the first time since forever,

R21: Dogs lose to Carlton by 79 points. (The Brad Hardie jumper waving game)

R22: Dogs lose to Hawthorn by 70 points.


5 absolute smashings in a row. We were so optimistic after 1985 that the Bulldogs were going to become a great side at long last. What was happening? The club is crumbling again, Malthouse is under pressure.

Come Round 4 the desperate and hopeless Bulldogs were about to face the reigning & undefeated premier Hawthorn. The hawks had won their opening 3 games of the season by 45, 62 & 77 points. On their way to winning the premiership in 86 they were dishing out spankings regularly including a 135 point belting to Geelong. What chance did we have?

R4: Footscray 14.12.96 defeated Hawthorn 7.13.55. dogs win by 41 points.

Don't ask me how it works. Footy is a funny and unpredictable game. We got our season back on track and going into round 22 were playing for a spot in the finals. There is no fairytale ending. But we fought out the season and gave ourselves a chance.

Like everyone I'm not happy with how we are travelling at the moment but I'm not joining in on the Bevo pile on. He deserves a chance to pull us out of the fire. He has been good enough to get us to 2 grand finals something no one before him has achieved in the VFL/AFL.

Good post Doc. People are venting because they are disappointed and rightly so, and lots of posts (which I haven't read and won't) are based on emotion - can't help that, footy is an emotional sport.

I will there on Thursday to back the boys, because right now we are all hurting and they need support.

[JanLorMill]

True, but that isn't quite the point. The point is we have a proven coach who has lifted us up when we were down. Like Malthouse, he deserves a chance to turn it around. After all he achieved much more for us than Malthouse did.
Yes with a way better list than Malthouse had.

[bulldogtragic]

Yes with a way better list than Malthouse had.

Malthouse could also keep his list performing from year to year. 92 Premiers, 93 Prelim, & 94 Premiers, with WCE. Back to back GFs vs Brisbane at Collingwood and again back to back against Geelong and the two against St Kilda with the eventual win - with prelims on either side of the GFs. It would be nice to have a Malthouse type track record of running talented lists deep into September year after year.

As an honest question, how has Bevo been unable to take this list deep into September year on year? Or have we overrated the list?

[GVGjr]

Malthouse could also keep his list performing from year to year. 92 Premiers, 93 Prelim, & 94 Premiers, with WCE. Back to back GFs vs Brisbane at Collingwood and again back to back against Geelong and the two against St Kilda with the eventual win - with prelims on either side of the GFs. It would be nice to have a Malthouse type track record of running talented lists deep into September year after year.

As an honest question, how has Bevo been unable to take this list deep into September year on year? Or have we overrated the list?

I don't think it's a case of overrating the list and it's more about why we keep marginal players longer than we should. What are the reasons behind so many state league players coming in rather than continually building through the draft?
I'd really like to know is if it's Bevo or the recruitment team that recommends holding onto the players.

The fact that we chased a 30 and a 32yo indicates the club thought it had a strong enough list that just needed some additional KP options and I'd like to see some data behind those decisions. I mentioned during the trade period when our interest in Lobb was evident that we needed him or someone like him more for the 2022 season more than 2023 because Bruce would be returning.
I'd also like to know why we run so thin most years for ruck options.
Our list has enough A graders but perhaps not enough B graders.

[jeemak]

Malthouse could also keep his list performing from year to year. 92 Premiers, 93 Prelim, & 94 Premiers, with WCE. Back to back GFs vs Brisbane at Collingwood and again back to back against Geelong and the two against St Kilda with the eventual win - with prelims on either side of the GFs. It would be nice to have a Malthouse type track record of running talented lists deep into September year after year.

As an honest question, how has Bevo been unable to take this list deep into September year on year? Or have we overrated the list?

We overrate the list. Every year we talk about how good our midfield is on paper, but in reality it's just that. Good on paper - continually outworked by "more blue collar" outfits. Each of those years we bemoan how we lack quality ruck depth or a genuine stoppage ruck, we acknowledge our lack of quality on the wings, and we talk about our deficiencies in defence from a tall defender perspective, and our inconsistency with tall forwards who have no support from competent ground level forwards.

But then at the same time we all think we should be wining flags every year or finishing top four every year.

None of it makes any sense!

[bulldogtragic]

We overrate the list. Every year we talk about how good our midfield is on paper, but in reality it's just that. Good on paper - continually outworked by "more blue collar" outfits. Each of those years we bemoan how we lack quality ruck depth or a genuine stoppage ruck, we acknowledge our lack of quality on the wings, and we talk about our deficiencies in defence from a tall defender perspective, and our inconsistency with tall forwards who have no support from competent ground level forwards.

But then at the same time we all think we should be wining flags every year or finishing top four every year.

None of it makes any sense!

Jackie Chiles!!


Edit: When did we last finish top 4? My memory fails me. Under Bevo though?

[GVGjr]

Jackie Chiles!!


Edit: When did we last finish top 4? My memory fails me. Under Bevo though?

Never under Bevo.

[Grantysghost]

Never under Bevo.
I’d hazard a guess at 2010.

[jeemak]

Jackie Chiles!!


Edit: When did we last finish top 4? My memory fails me. Under Bevo though?

2017 was an extremely disappointing year, and while we made the grand final in 2021 I think we really let ourselves down by not keeping our minds in it in the last few rounds. They were the big chances to make top four for mine.

I still can't figure out last year, but there's enough murmurings out and about that things among the players were all but cooked.

Winning 15 games in 2016 with the injuries we had was a magnificent effort and that used to be a sufficient number to get you into the top four anyway.

Not making excuses, other than to say it's bloody hard to get into the top four and it's getting harder each year.

[bulldogtragic]

2017 was an extremely disappointing year, and while we made the grand final in 2021 I think we really let ourselves down by not keeping our minds in it in the last few rounds. They were the big chances to make top four for mine.

I still can't figure out last year, but there's enough murmurings out and about that things among the players were all but cooked.

Winning 15 games in 2016 with the injuries we had was a magnificent effort and that used to be a sufficient number to get you into the top four anyway.

Not making excuses, other than to say it's bloody hard to get into the top four and it's getting harder each year.

Fair point Jackie. But how with the players we’ve had since 2010 have we not done it? Seems quirky.

[jeemak]

Fair point Jackie. But how with the players we’ve had since 2010 have we not done it? Seems quirky.

Well I guess what I'm saying is we should have in 2016/2017 all things being equal, but after that we rebuilt and were as good as anyone outside of a few games at the end of 2021 and that was that. We missed out.

Last year was a shit show.

As supporters we want it both ways. We want to be able to shit on the coaching, the recruiting, the personnel, yet at the same time we want to shit on the club for not making top four every year whilst ignoring that other clubs might also be good.

It's what makes footy great. The irrational hopes and beliefs of supporters are literally the only thing keeping the Ponzi scheme afloat!

[bornadog]

Well I guess what I'm saying is we should have in 2016/2017 all things being equal, but after that we rebuilt and were as good as anyone outside of a few games at the end of 2021 and that was that. We missed out.

Last year was a shit show.

As supporters we want it both ways. We want to be able to shit on the coaching, the recruiting, the personnel, yet at the same time we want to shit on the club for not making top four every year whilst ignoring that other clubs might also be good.

It's what makes footy great. The irrational hopes and beliefs of supporters are literally the only thing keeping the Ponzi scheme afloat!

We did stuff up in 2021 with the last few rounds, but ended up outside the 4 by .01%(something) or another goal would have pushed us into 4th

[jeemak]

We did stuff up in 2021 with the last few rounds, but ended up outside the 4 by .01%(something) or another goal would have pushed us into 4th

Or 23 less seconds on the clock up north! Which was totally fine and definitely not worth worrying about.

[GVGjr]

Fair point Jackie. But how with the players we’ve had since 2010 have we not done it? Seems quirky.

Didn't you used to call Greystache Ricky? :)

[bulldogtragic]

Didn't you used to call Greystache Ricky? :)

Yep! He was actually Rick Astley. A little known fact…

Great memory.

[Grantysghost]

2017 was an extremely disappointing year, and while we made the grand final in 2021 I think we really let ourselves down by not keeping our minds in it in the last few rounds. They were the big chances to make top four for mine.

I still can't figure out last year, but there's enough murmurings out and about that things among the players were all but cooked.

Winning 15 games in 2016 with the injuries we had was a magnificent effort and that used to be a sufficient number to get you into the top four anyway.

Not making excuses, other than to say it's bloody hard to get into the top four and it's getting harder each year.

End of 16 we were 19 and 7 equal best with the Swans.

[JanLorMill]

Malthouse could also keep his list performing from year to year. 92 Premiers, 93 Prelim, & 94 Premiers, with WCE. Back to back GFs vs Brisbane at Collingwood and again back to back against Geelong and the two against St Kilda with the eventual win - with prelims on either side of the GFs. It would be nice to have a Malthouse type track record of running talented lists deep into September year after year.

As an honest question, how has Bevo been unable to take this list deep into September year on year? Or have we overrated the list?
For starters with us Malthouse never had a once in generation player like Bont. Beasley was good but I think Naughton is better.

[bornadog]

For starters with us Malthouse never had a once in generation player like Bont. Beasley was good but I think Naughton is better.

Doug Hawkins enters the room - cough, cough

[GVGjr]

Yep! He was actually Rick Astley. A little known fact…

Great memory.

I can remember checking a whole heap of your posts to try and work out the Ricky reference but I must have missed it.
:)

[GVGjr]

Bevo is right under the spot light at the moment but could you imagine the pressure level if he wasn't signed yet?

It's going to be a long week for the club and Bevo I feel.

[jeemak]

For starters with us Malthouse never had a once in generation player like Bont. Beasley was good but I think Naughton is better.

Doug Hawkins was pretty good, while Beaser kicked the most goals in the 80's and would nail them from twenty metres out like Naughton can't.

[Mantis]

We certainly aren't this bad.

Rd 1, well we played almost the best side so most of us can cop that one.
Last night was terrible, however we have made adjustments over the off season and these things can take time. Somehow Ross the boss can make it happen straight away that can be the new coach thing though.

We definitely needed the two practise games we seem to have stuffed that up.

Let's give them a chance to see if they can implement what the coaches are trying to do.

Besides a change in personnel, I cannot see any change/adjustment to the way we are playing... or should be playing. Surely if we had been training for 3-4 months to implement new strategies that something would be visible across 240min of footy...am I missing something?

[Mantis]

Bevo is right under the spot light at the moment but could you imagine the pressure level if he wasn't signed yet?

It's going to be a long week for the club and Bevo I feel.

There is plenty of recent examples where contracts mean absolutely nothing, so I don't think it matters either way TBH.

[GVGjr]

Besides a change in personnel, I cannot see any change/adjustment to the way we are playing... or should be playing. Surely if we had been training for 3-4 months to implement new strategies that something would be visible across 240min of footy...am I missing something?

Do you think we need to reassess our 4 tall forward ambitions as it isn't working

[Rocco Jones]

Besides a change in personnel, I cannot see any change/adjustment to the way we are playing... or should be playing. Surely if we had been training for 3-4 months to implement new strategies that something would be visible across 240min of footy...am I missing something?

Yep. Even the rate good bits seem like last season, just less/shorter bursts of positive parts. It really feels so similar.

[Rocco Jones]

Do you think we need to reassess our 4 tall forward ambitions as it isn't working

I know you're asking Mantis but a few things:
- our forward pressure sucked last year anyway, so I don't think the 4 talls is that risky
- Lobb was hurt round 1 and we went with 3 in R2. We haven't really given it a chance\
- Darcy isn't offering enough atm and I would send him to VFL regardless of balance

[GVGjr]

There is plenty of recent examples where contracts mean absolutely nothing, so I don't think it matters either way TBH.

You're probably right but from what I can tell after the Saints made their move was that because they were receiving significant funding from the AFL they could make the move without having to pay out the full term of Ratten's contract. I think he got just 3 months pay.

I don't know what the level is for that clause to be inacted but it may not be as easy for us as it was for the likes of North and St Kilda. Bevo is apparently on a significant contract.

[GVGjr]

I know you're asking Mantis but a few things:
- our forward pressure sucked last year anyway, so I don't think the 4 talls is that risky
- Lobb was hurt round 1 and we went with 3 in R2. We haven't really given it a chance\
- Darcy isn't offering enough atm and I would send him to VFL regardless of balance

Our forward line sucked last year because we didn't consider replacing Bruce. In 2021 it worked well.
I agree that we haven't really played 4 talls but I do think it was very much in our planning.
Despite some moments where he stands out I did caution through summer that Darcy needed more time.

[Grantysghost]

Besides a change in personnel, I cannot see any change/adjustment to the way we are playing... or should be playing. Surely if we had been training for 3-4 months to implement new strategies that something would be visible across 240min of footy...am I missing something?

Good q : I can only go from what Bevo has intimated.

Defending the entire ground is his mantra. The back off 5 has gone as part of that.

English is definitely staying a kick behind consistently.

I've noticed our ball movement has definitely slowed, trying to be more measured with our entries.

Statistically it's hard to gauge considering we've been so bad.

We are 18th for inside 50s - could be due to trying to be more careful with entries, or that we are crap!

Kick to HB ratio is 1.31 last year it was 1.37 so that's the same.

Metres per disposal is 15.3 last year 15.4

2023 UC marks pretty much the same as 2022 (around 80)

I'll keep looking, statistically there don't seem to be any clear indicators.

[Mantis]

Do you think we need to reassess our 4 tall forward ambitions as it isn't working

It isn't working at present, but really it hasn't had the opportunity to so do with some of the reasons including:

- Lobb, Cody & Arty all injured
- JUH & Darcy are not physically capable yet to play as key forwards.
- Naughton getting held, double teamed.
- Only 37 I50's in Rd 2.. hard to have an effective forward line if you can't get the ball down there.
- Poor kicking skills in midfield & defence meaning lots of long kicks to packs or missed targets.
- Lack of clean ball from the midfield.

[Sedat]

It isn't working at present, but really it hasn't had the opportunity to so do with some of the reasons including:

- Lobb, Cody & Arty all injured
- JUH & Darcy are not physically capable yet to play as key forwards.
- Naughton getting held, double teamed.
- Only 37 I50's in Rd 2.. hard to have an effective forward line if you can't get the ball down there.
- Poor kicking skills in midfield & defence meaning lots of long kicks to packs or missed targets.
- Lack of clean ball from the midfield.
Have other teams surged past us in relation to winning clean, impactful, truly damaging clearances and in quick transition of the ball from D50 to F50 through the corridor? Are we still getting our fair share of dirty clearances because we have an outnumber at the contest, and are the opposition structuring up a kick behind play with their numerical advantage to punish us on turnover with ease? It looks as though our clearance and CP game is not at optimum this season so far, and previously if we aren't absolutely dominating in these metrics we have been blown off the park by the better/high pressure teams.

Do we honestly think that the quick dirty ball into F50 will benefit our 3-4 key forwards (2 of whom are still young and not yet strong enough to hold their ground against seasoned opposition bodies), especially when there are no quality crumbers/defensive small forwards to lock it in? And if that is going to be our modus operandi, does this game style seem to be contrary to our strengths and exposes our weaknesses (turnover game, lack of leg speed)?

The one good thing about such a poor performance on the weekend, against an opposition "weaker" on paper, is that there is absolutely nowhere to hide. It will be good for our club to play on edge, knowing there will be a searing spotlight on our on-field performances.

[jeemak]

I'd like to see how four works when Gardner comes back into the side and then playing Bruce forward. I know the latter had a shit year last year after coming back from a knee but I highly doubt he's forgotten how to play in the front half of the ground.

[bornadog]

I'd like to see how four works when Gardner comes back into the side and then playing Bruce forward. I know the latter had a shit year last year after coming back from a knee but I highly doubt he's forgotten how to play in the front half of the ground.

We don't actually play 4 talls at the same time, so would throwing Bruce down there make it work?

[G-Mo77]

I'd like to see how four works when Gardner comes back into the side and then playing Bruce forward. I know the latter had a shit year last year after coming back from a knee but I highly doubt he's forgotten how to play in the front half of the ground.

I think you've indirectly highlighted another issue and that is positional changes. So it seems to me the plan was for Bruce to play back and now we scrap that after doing an entire preseason with that plan? Didn't we do this to someone else last season? Shache comes to mind? I remember the Easton Wood to the forward line experiment worked for 1 round. The list is quite long under Beveridge's watch.

Why not just play players where they are best suited and not try to make them something they're not?

[jeemak]

We don't actually play 4 talls at the same time, so would throwing Bruce down there make it work?

We had four in the team round one, didn't we? I get they're not all plodding around the forward fifty at the same time as they rotate through ruck relief/ bench etc.

I don't think Darcy is offering much at the minute, so when Lobb comes back he goes out and if we really want to see if four tall forwards in the team can work we try it with Lobb, Naughton, Bruce and JUH.

[1eyedog]

I'd like to see how four works when Gardner comes back into the side and then playing Bruce forward. I know the latter had a shit year last year after coming back from a knee but I highly doubt he's forgotten how to play in the front half of the ground.

Even though I've really liked what I've seen of Bruce down back this year I'd be up for it. He knows how to lead into space. If Bruce goes forward Darcy has to play back if we want to continue to play him (I don't). I'd only shift Bruce out of the back half when Gardner returns because Keath is absolutely cooked.

[bornadog]

We had four in the team round one, didn't we? I get they're not all plodding around the forward fifty at the same time as they rotate through ruck relief/ bench etc.

I don't think Darcy is offering much at the minute, so when Lobb comes back he goes out and if we really want to see if four tall forwards in the team can work we try it with Lobb, Naughton, Bruce and JUH.

In the two games, we have not had 4 talls at the same time residing in the F50.

[Mantis]

Good q : I can only go from what Bevo has intimated.

Defending the entire ground is his mantra. The back off 5 has gone as part of that.

English is definitely staying a kick behind consistently.

I've noticed our ball movement has definitely slowed, trying to be more measured with our entries.

Statistically it's hard to gauge considering we've been so bad.

We are 18th for inside 50s - could be due to trying to be more careful with entries, or that we are crap!

Kick to HB ratio is 1.31 last year it was 1.37 so that's the same.

Metres per disposal is 15.3 last year 15.4

2023 UC marks pretty much the same as 2022 (around 80)

I'll keep looking, statistically there don't seem to be any clear indicators.

Good luck with that!

Re: defensive structure - it was mentioned a number of times in the pre training thread that there was quite a bit of ''back shoulder'' defending occurring in the match sim... I haven't seen that being a strong part of our play so far.

The slow ball movement is also failing... I have no confidence in our ability to kick our way through a defensive zone as we just don't have enough good kicks of the ball. The number of times we made quite basic kicking errors on Saturday night was mind-blowing.

[Bulldog4life]

For starters with us Malthouse never had a once in generation player like Bont. Beasley was good but I think Naughton is better.

Not yet. Beaser was a century goal kicker and kicked bags of 12. I'd take Beaser.....at this stage anyway.

[mjp]

Not yet. Beaser was a century goal kicker and kicked bags of 12. I'd take Beaser.....at this stage anyway.

I think Beasley kicked the most goals of any player during the 1980's...for this era where contested marking is a premium I would take Naughton but Beasley was a serious footballer.

[Bulldog4life]

It isn't working at present, but really it hasn't had the opportunity to so do with some of the reasons including:

- Lobb, Cody & Arty all injured
- JUH & Darcy are not physically capable yet to play as key forwards.
- Naughton getting held, double teamed.
- Only 37 I50's in Rd 2.. hard to have an effective forward line if you can't get the ball down there.
- Poor kicking skills in midfield & defence meaning lots of long kicks to packs or missed targets.
- Lack of clean ball from the midfield.

Should be a free each time especially now there are bloody 4 umpires.

[Bulldog4life]

I think Beasley kicked the most goals of any player during the 1980's...for this era where contested marking is a premium I would take Naughton but Beasley was a serious footballer.

He did I believe MJP. His average was one of the best at the time or the best...not sure. I was lucky enough to see 90% of his matches so I saw how good he was first hand. His leading was superb.

[mjp]

He did I believe MJP. His average was one of the best at the time or the best...not sure. I was lucky enough to see 90% of his matches so I saw how good he was first hand. His leading was superb.

I grew up watching him at Swan Districts and he was a 'pretty' player who played for a mongrel club. Look up 'Ron Boucher' or 'Stan Nowotny' if you have any doubts...

[Bulldog4life]

I grew up watching him at Swan Districts and he was a 'pretty' player who played for a mongrel club. Look up 'Ron Boucher' or 'Stan Nowotny' if you have any doubts...

Yes he didn't look like a tough footballer with his pale skin and wispy blonde hair. But he took some hard knocks and always got up.

[GVGjr]

I think Beasley kicked the most goals of any player during the 1980's...for this era where contested marking is a premium I would take Naughton but Beasley was a serious footballer.

Very different era's and players so the comparisons are difficult.
Beasley's goal kicking would have been deadly at the Marvel dome.

[JanLorMill]

Very different era's and players so the comparisons are difficult.
Beasley's goal kicking would have been deadly at the Marvel dome.
Yes different era, given that the AFL hasn't had anyone kick 100 goals for years. Not sure if Beasley would fit in today.
My original point was 1987 side was less talented side than ours today.
1987 rnd 22 included players like Shane Williams, Cronan, Cousins, Peter Baxter and Moloney!
Bont is easily a better player than Hawk was too and definitely in 1987.
Malthouse over achieved with what players he had.

[GVGjr]

Yes different era, given that the AFL hasn't had anyone kick 100 goals for years. Not sure if Beasley would fit in today.
My original point was 1987 side was less talented side than ours today.
1987 rnd 22 included players like Shane Williams, Cronan, Cousins, Peter Baxter and Moloney!
Bont is easily a better player than Hawk was too and definitely in 1987.
Malthouse over achieved with what players he had.

I think Bont is better than the Hawk but it's a close mark.

Mick was a great coach for us and instilled a fighting quality in the playing group but then got full of himself when he landed at Collingwood. His work at West Coast was impressive.

[bornadog]

How we all feel


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gle9kpL28A