Always Right Match Committee Round 7 V Hawthorn

[GVGjr]

Welcome to the Always Right Match Committee Thread. The Match Committee threads has been named after long time WOOF member Always Right who tragically passed away in March 2018.

If you were on the Western Bulldogs match committee, what changes would you make after our Round Six match against Fremantle for our Round Seven match against Hawthorn at Marvel stadium on Saturday?

For those new to these threads, please give a brief explanation for your changes ... this would add a lot of value to the discussion.

[azabob]

Just the one change,

McNeil in for McLean.

McLean has lost three yards of pace and McNeil has pace and I really look forward to a forward line of McNeil, Jones and Weightman.

Hopefully Smith can get some more miles in the legs and come in the week after.

[Grantysghost]

Just the one change,

McNeil in for McLean.

McLean has lost three yards of pace and McNeil has pace and I really look forward to a forward line of McNeil, Jones and Weightman.

Hopefully Smith can get some more miles in the legs and come in the week after.

McNeil has great biceps too.

[macca]

McNeil can find the ball in the forward line and has good tackling pressure. He just needs to improve his kicking. His only 21 years of age.
His worth investing games into

So his worth investing games into , to build a calibre of crumbing forwards in Jones, Weightman and McNeil. If they kick 20-30 goals a year when they mature, it be a great forward line .

I like Arty's work rate today up the ground. He managed to find the ball and not get caught holding the ball.

[hujsh]

McNeil can find the ball in the forward line and has good tackling pressure. He just needs to improve his kicking. His only 21 years of age.
His worth investing games into

So his worth investing games into , to build a calibre of crumbing forwards in Jones, Weightman and McNeil. If they kick 20-30 goals a year when they mature, it be a great forward line .

I like Arty's work rate today up the ground. He managed to find the ball and not get caught holding the ball.

One think I like about McNeil is it feels like he has more scope for improvement over some other recent rookies being a young'un.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Hope they all pull up well. No change but start with McNeil. Toby as the sub

We are a much better side with Bruce not in it. Sorry to say as I love him but he isn?t a Key back and. The backs looked so in sync last night.

[Go_Dogs]

Keath did quite a few Keath things.

I’d look to bring in Gardner if ready for him.

The McNeil for McLean change makes sense too.

[Danjul]

McNeil has great biceps too.
And the top he was wearing for the first three quarters looked so much better than the one the other 22 had.

[lemmon]

Keath did quite a few Keath things.

I’d look to bring in Gardner if ready for him.

The McNeil for McLean change makes sense too.

Same changes for me.

Keath fought back really well in the third term but he was a liability before half time. I don't think you can make those kinds mistakes while a very capable Gardner is playing in the twos.

[bornadog]

See how Gardner goes today before I think about him coming in.

VDM maybe another to consider after today.

[Happy Days]

Is Barry fit? Think he'd come straight in if so, probably for McLean.

I’d swap McNeil and Arty too.

[EasternWest]

Is Barry fit? Think he'd come straight in if so, probably for McLean.

I’d swap McNeil and Arty too.

I like these changes.

I love what Arty brings, but time for a spell.

[jeemak]

There's no scenario in which Smith doesn't come in if fit.

Does anyone know if JJ and Libba have any ongoing concerns?

[G-Mo77]

There's no scenario in which Smith doesn't come in if fit.

Does anyone know if JJ and Libba have any ongoing concerns?

I did read somewhere last night they were fine. I'm still in disbelief that Libba didn't get a free kick in that incident.

[EasternWest]

I did read somewhere last night they were fine. I'm still in disbelief that Libba didn't get a free kick in that incident.

Crunched. I was very surprised too

[Dogs 24/7]

In Baz Smith because he is one of the most damaging players when he gets going
Out Arty Jones who hasn't grasped his chances
On notice Rory Lobb - He really didnt grab the game like he should have and is only about 75% of what I expected him to be.

[angelopetraglia]

I thought Arty was a lot better this game. I would give him another game under the roof against a weaker opponent to see what he can do.

[Dogs 24/7]

I thought Arty was a lot better this game. I would give him another game under the roof against a weaker opponent to see what he can do.

They probably will but with enthusiastic young players there is normally no right time. He hasnt hit the scoreboard after 4 games. He can keep learning at Footerscray.

[Danjul]

I thought Arty was a lot better this game. I would give him another game under the roof against a weaker opponent to see what he can do.
A Jones has shown potential and will be good but he can?t be prioritised over others. McNeil displayed some polish during his brief appearance. Has to be rewarded.

[Hotdog60]

McNeil in for Toby. I'm sorry to say I think he's cooked at AFL level and may have to buy a salon near the Whitten oval to keep his clientele.
Jones get another game I think Bevo will like the intensity and I don't think he will be judged on goal output why else would Vanders get a game. :)
The harder ones will be who replaces Libba and JJ if they don't get up.

[Dogs 24/7]

McNeil in for Toby. I'm sorry to say I think he's cooked at AFL level and may have to buy a salon near the Whitten oval to keep his clientele.
Jones get another game I think Bevo will like the intensity and I don't think he will be judged on goal output why else would Vanders get a game. :)
The harder ones will be who replaces Libba and JJ if they don't get up.

Don't shoot the messenger here but could Liam Jones be in strife?

[Jasper]

Don't shoot the messenger here but could Liam Jones be in strife?

Maybe but I think he is in the clear.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Don't shoot the messenger here but could Liam Jones be in strife?

Surely not. If the guy wasn't concussed then we know he'll be fine.

[lemmon]

I think the Arty decision will be about how he pulls up. He's had four intense games of footy with lots of travel in between. I thought last night was his best game so far.

He might be a good sub option against the Hawks.

[Bulldog Joe]

Don't shoot the messenger here but could Liam Jones be in strife?

That would be ridiculous.
Liam was trying to pull up and used his hands to protect his opponent.

If that is cited we will next have players in strife for standing still.

[angelopetraglia]

Libba has entered concussion protocols. Misses the next week. JJ is OK.

[Happy Days]

Libba?s confirmed concussed so will miss.

[Bulldog4life]

I thought Arty was a lot better this game. I would give him another game under the roof against a weaker opponent to see what he can do.

Loved his run and bounces down the wing. Bit of a taste of what he can do regularly with more experience.

[Jeanette54]

Life without Libba, who will get the centre bounce gig ?

Could it be Toby's chance to play a role, maybe Westie gets a go, or is there a smokey somewhere ?

Maybe Caleb Daniel ?

There may be a lot riding on some individual performances at Footscray today.

[The Underdog]

Life without Libba, who will get the centre bounce gig ?

Baz if he comes back? Does Toby stay in and get the role?
Not the worst week to miss him.

[Rocco Jones]

Hawks have a very small forward line. If Kosi remains out, it's a resting ruckman and that's it for talls. Even with Kosi, it's just two.

I would bring in Gardner for Keath just to add mobility.

Baz in for Libba if he is fit. Otherwise start McNeil and give Tobias CBAs.

[G-Mo77]

I'd have McLean as Libba's replacement in the middle. Good opportunity for him to step up here but I'm sure we'll go with someone like McComb.

I've got Gardner on for Keath and Bazz in for Libba right now.

[Scorlibo]

Anyone keen to see who's performing in the VFL, it's currently half time with Footscray ahead by a point, you can stream the second half here:

https://www.afl.com.au/afl-tv/stream?streamId=State%20League%20CH2&player=arILJvH9PY

[bornadog]

No one putting up their hand in the VFL

[Jeanette54]

No one putting up their hand in the VFL

It's not hard to see where our errant goal kicking come from, 7 points straight. in an otherwise close last quarter. Southport's forward line is immeasurably better than ours when it comes to finishing opportunities. Thats 9 shots for zero goals so far this quarter.

[bornadog]

Possibles

Crozier, West, Cleary, McComb, VDM, Gardner, Darcy - no one putting up their hand.

In McNeil
Out: Libba

[Scorlibo]

Yep no one looked ready to step up from the VFL. Our finals chances this year may hinge on keeping a healthy list.

If Baz is right to go, bring him back for Libba, and give Arty a rest - start him as the sub with McNeil to take his place in the starting lineup.

[bornadog]

Possibles

Crozier, West, Cleary, McComb, VDM, Gardner, Darcy - no one putting up their hand.

In McNeil
Out: Libba

Update

In: Baz, McNeil

Out: Libba, McLean (sub)

[Matjoh]

Been watching Arty for a while. Does a lot of running around but not much else so he's out [but stays the sub] and McNeil's in.
Baz in for Libba [not that he does the Libba things but provides run and gun]. If Baz doesn't get up Arty stays for one more game.
McLean starred in the trainings and VFL but hasn't produced at the top level but deserves another chance so he stays.

VDM is injured AGAIN unfortunately. because I would have liked him on a wing or HF but no go.

[Dogs 24/7]

Been watching Arty for a while. Does a lot of running around but not much else so he's out [but stays the sub] and McNeil's in.
Baz in for Libba [not that he does the Libba things but provides run and gun]. If Baz doesn't get up Arty stays for one more game.
McLean starred in the trainings and VFL but hasn't produced at the top level but deserves another chance so he stays.

VDM is injured AGAIN unfortunately. because I would have liked him on a wing or HF but no go.

Im a bit lost on what we should do with Arty because Id love us to stick with him but he isnt doing enough.
I think we will stick with him for another week.

[Happy Days]

Im a bit lost on what we should do with Arty because Id love us to stick with him but he isnt doing enough.
I think we will stick with him for another week.

We should drop Arty. McNeil is better than him right now, there’s no shame in it.

[azabob]

We should drop Arty. McNeil is better than him right now, there’s no shame in it.

What do we do with McLean?

[GVGjr]

What do we do with McLean?

Great question with no obvious answer. McLean should be in the team but he isn't in the sort of form you should expect.
Given injuries to some players who might have been able to fill his spot he might be retained and given another chance.

[macca]

Great question with no obvious answer. McLean should be in the team but he isn't in the sort of form you should expect.
Given injuries to some players who might have been able to fill his spot he might be retained and given another chance.

Given its the Hawks, we should persist with McLean and give him a continuation of games. I hope he can find some form soon.
A player who can find 45 touches in VFL, surely has a place in an AFL side ?

[bornadog]

We should drop Arty. McNeil is better than him right now, there’s no shame in it.

Watching the replay, Arty did some pretty good things, but agree he is close to being dropped.

[The Underdog]

Given its the Hawks, we should persist with McLean and give him a continuation of games. I hope he can find some form soon.
A player who can find 45 touches in VFL, surely has a place in an AFL side ?

Depends if they were any good or not. Counting stats can’t be the be all and end all of a players worth to the team. The fact is he’s had one very good VFL game and almost no impact at senior level. I’m not against giving him a run in the firsts but the reality is, he’s not getting midfield time in front of Bont, Macrae, Treloar, Libba and probably Smith. There may be an opportunity for a better run this week but it looked like he tried to tag Serong at times from centre bounce last week and it didn’t go well.
I hope for the best for Toby, he’s still got plenty of football ahead of him if his body is right, but he needs to improve what he’s putting out there. Otherwise he’ll be putting up big VFL stats pretty regularly.

[bornadog]

Depends if they were any good or not. Counting stats can’t be the be all and end all of a players worth to the team. The fact is he’s had one very good VFL game and almost no impact at senior level. I’m not against giving him a run in the firsts but the reality is, he’s not getting midfield time in front of Bont, Macrae, Treloar, Libba and probably Smith. There may be an opportunity for a better run this week but it looked like he tried to tag Serong at times from centre bounce last week and it didn’t go well.
I hope for the best for Toby, he’s still got plenty of football ahead of him if his body is right, but he needs to improve what he’s putting out there. Otherwise he’ll be putting up big VFL stats pretty regularly.

There is a massive jump from VFL to AFL. McComb was regularly getting 30 plus disposals in the VFL, but just hasn't been up to it in the AFL. We know Mclean can play but needs to find form.

[Rocco Jones]

With Arty, he is playing as a small forward. Have we had anyone really do well in the role since Clay Smith 2016? Legit thinking. Especially recently. Yeah he isn't doing much but it's relative to what we bring in. He at least has the attributes for the role.

I like us filling out the 22 with speed. Not trying to dis the Hawks but that comes into it as well. As long as we don't think it's affecting his confidence/tired/needs to find a bit more of the footy at VFL level, I'd keep him in.

[GVGjr]

There is a massive jump from VFL to AFL. McComb was regularly getting 30 plus disposals in the VFL, but just hasn't been up to it in the AFL. We know Mclean can play but needs to find form.
Plays a very different role in the seniors so stats comparisons between the VFL and AFL are not really relevant for McComb. I think we can say that from what we can see he is struggling with the role we are giving him without needing stats to support that view.

[Critter]

Perhaps the next two games give us the chance to bring back Ryan Gardner and run him into form in the AFL rather than the VFL. I thought he ended up as our best defender last year. He made very few mistakes in the latter end of the season.
He presents as someone with the speed, stamina and focus to run with the likes of Jeremy Cameron and Charlie Curnow. My concern is that I think either of these would have Alex Keath for dinner.

[MrMahatma]

I hope the players don’t take the Hawks easy. This is a classic one for the dogs to drop. Like Adelaide in Ballarat last season.

I hope we put our very best 22 out there and the players are switched on.

[bornadog]

Plays a very different role in the seniors so stats comparisons between the VFL and AFL are not really relevant for McComb. I think we can say that from what we can see he is struggling with the role we are giving him without needing stats to support that view.

The point I am making is there is a big difference between VFL standard and AFL and Mclean is struggling in AFL.

[Rocco Jones]

Question for those wanting Arty out (not saying I disagree really), who do you want to replace him playing as a small forward? Totally get playing Arty in VFL to find the ball more, get confidence up, rest up a bit etc but it's a bit of a revolving door with the small forward role.

If we are going to play Tobias or McComb there, I'd like them to play primarily forward in the VFL. Playing someone as a mid with CBAs in the VFL then purely as a small fwd at AFL level is really setting them up to fail IMO.

[GVGjr]

The point I am making is there is a big difference between VFL standard and AFL and Mclean is struggling in AFL.

I don't quite see it that way and there could be other reasons why McLean isn't measuring up at the moment. There is a gap in standards but it's still the best spot to run players back into form.

[D Mitchell]

I hope the players don’t take the Hawks easy. This is a classic one for the dogs to drop. Like Adelaide in Ballarat last season.

I hope we put our very best 22 out there and the players are switched on.

We have beaten 2 of the current easybeats, Richmond (1 win), Freo (2 wins) and Brisbane, the only meritorious win so far. There is no justification for taking any club lightly. I agree with you.

[D Mitchell]

Given its the Hawks, we should persist with McLean and give him a continuation of games. I hope he can find some form soon.
A player who can find 45 touches in VFL, surely has a place in an AFL side ?

Go easy on me, macca, using your post to promote my philosophy but

It shouldn't matter who we play, the best team available should take to the field every week. Players must earn their spots with performance in the VFL and that includes him playing a role / adhering to instructions.

Ah, I feel better, now.

[Danjul]

Perhaps the next two games give us the chance to bring back Ryan Gardner and run him into form in the AFL rather than the VFL. I thought he ended up as our best defender last year. He made very few mistakes in the latter end of the season.
He presents as someone with the speed, stamina and focus to run with the likes of Jeremy Cameron and Charlie Curnow. My concern is that I think either of these would have Alex Keath for dinner.
I was there when we played against Jeremy Cameron middle of last year. Both Gardner and Keath played but Cameron got 6 goals.

Later In Geelong Gardner played, Keath didn?t. Cameron still had a good game.

We struggle against Cameron, no matter who we put on him.

[macca]

Go easy on me, macca, using your post to promote my philosophy but

It shouldn't matter who we play, the best team available should take to the field every week. Players must earn their spots with performance in the VFL and that includes him playing a role / adhering to instructions.

Ah, I feel better, now.

Your right, the Hawks are a threat, as they nearly knocked off Adelaide in Round 6. You raise a good point, everyone must contribute and be competitive
I was referring to a younger team, which McLean could find form.

[azabob]

Just the one change,

McNeil in for McLean.

McLean has lost three yards of pace and McNeil has pace and I really look forward to a forward line of McNeil, Jones and Weightman.

Hopefully Smith can get some more miles in the legs and come in the week after.

Updated;

IN: Smith, McNeil
OUT: Liberatore, McLean

[GVGjr]

Updated;

IN: Smith, McNeil
OUT: Liberatore, McLean

Seems like the best outcome.

[dog town]

Question for those wanting Arty out (not saying I disagree really), who do you want to replace him playing as a small forward? Totally get playing Arty in VFL to find the ball more, get confidence up, rest up a bit etc but it's a bit of a revolving door with the small forward role.

If we are going to play Tobias or McComb there, I'd like them to play primarily forward in the VFL. Playing someone as a mid with CBAs in the VFL then purely as a small fwd at AFL level is really setting them up to fail IMO.
The gap between us and the best teams is post stoppage ground balls (pace to out number). If giving ground in 2023 gets Jones closer to what Collingwoods runners did late today then it’s a good sacrifice. We lose out occasionally right now but he will be a good player and is learning a new position.

[lemmon]

Do all of Keath, Jones and O'Brien have a match-up against the Hawks? I didn't watch their game but they looked like they went with a very small forward line on paper.

[azabob]

Do we need all of Keath, Jones and O'Brien against the Hawks? I didn't watch their game but they looked like they went with a very small forward line on paper.

Mitch Lewis should be back for them this week.

I do wonder are we better playing horses for courses or sticking with a structure that we think will win finals?
I'm leaning towards keeping a structure that will win finals.

[lemmon]

Mitch Lewis should be back for them this week.

I do wonder are we better playing horses for courses or sticking with a structure that we think will win finals?
I'm leaning towards keeping a structure that will win finals.

Good point I reckon. The tactical sub helps in that regard if we are needing the extra small at ground level and O'Brien can play tall, medium or forward (in theory).

I thought Crozier played some good footy early in the year and was unlucky to cop and injury when he did - reckon his name comes up at match committee too.

[Jeanette54]

I was there when we played against Jeremy Cameron middle of last year. Both Gardner and Keath played but Cameron got 6 goals.

Later In Geelong Gardner played, Keath didn?t. Cameron still had a good game.

We struggle against Cameron, no matter who we put on him.

Not that its relevant to this week, but for a Geelong game I would go, Jones to Cameron, Bruce to Hawkins and Doc to Rohan. But that's a story for another day.

[Axe Man]

Not that its relevant to this week, but for a Geelong game I would go, Jones to Cameron, Bruce to Hawkins and Doc to Rohan. But that's a story for another day.

I reckon Richards would be a better match for Rohan given his height, pace and hair colour.

[Mofra]

Mitch Lewis should be back for them this week.

I do wonder are we better playing horses for courses or sticking with a structure that we think will win finals?
I'm leaning towards keeping a structure that will win finals.
Koszitche kicked 3 goals in the VFL - he may come in too

[EasternWest]

I reckon Richards would be a better match for Rohan given his height, pace and hair colour.

I think we put the physio on Rohan, or a cardboard cutout of Tom Hawkins.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Reports say Gardiner was not great in VFL so not ready.
Surprising.

[GVGjr]

Reports say Gardiner was not great in VFL so not ready.
Surprising.

He came off the training track today so little to no chance.

[azabob]

Koszitche kicked 3 goals in the VFL - he may come in too

Wonder why he hasn't been playing seniors?

[Axe Man]

Wonder why he hasn't been playing seniors?

Going goalless in the first 2 rounds probably had something to do with it.

[Curly5]

It was good to see the TWINS together again :) Hope McNeil is in the 22 this week.

[Mofra]

Weddle and Ramsden debuting for the Hawks. They're going young, really young

[Grantysghost]

Weddle and Ramsden debuting for the Hawks. They're going young, really young

Man we are going to win by 150 points.

[EasternWest]

Man we are going to win by 150 points.

Please don't say things like this. Puh-lease.

[azabob]

ROUND 7 TEAM

Western Bulldogs v Hawthorn
Saturday 29 April, 4.35pm AEST
Marvel Stadium

B: Taylor Duryea, Liam Jones, Tim O’Brien
HB: Bailey Dale, Alex Keath, Ed Richards
C: Oskar Baker, Marcus Bontempelli, Bailey Williams
HF: Bailey Smith, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, Cody Weightman
F: Arthur Jones, Aaron Naughton, Rory Lobb
R: Tim English, Jack Macrae, Adam Treloar
Int: Jason Johannisen, Caleb Daniel, Anthony Scott, Lachlan McNeil
Emerg: Buku Khamis, Rhylee West, Toby McLean, Sam Darcy

IN: Bailey Smith
OUT: Toby McLean (omitted), Tom Liberatore (concussion)

[Grantysghost]

Please don't say things like this. Puh-lease.

149.

[hujsh]

IN: Bailey Smith
OUT: Toby McLean (omitted), Tom Liberatore (concussion)

So Smith into a few more CBAs potentially and McNeil to probably do a better job at playing that pressure forward role over Toby.

[azabob]

So Smith into a few more CBAs potentially and McNeil to probably do a better job at playing that pressure forward role over Toby.

Yep, sounds like it.

I’m glad they stuck with Jones.

[Grantysghost]

So Smith into a few more CBAs potentially and McNeil to probably do a better job at playing that pressure forward role over Toby.

Was really interesting to hear Bont say he's developed his game to be more inside post Dunkley.

Was surprised by that.

Think with the Hawks we should be ok to cover the loss of Libba.

[dalek]

While it's nice to have Bailey back, I think we will still miss Libba's input.

[bornadog]

Was really interesting to hear Bont say he's developed his game to be more inside post Dunkley.

Was surprised by that.

Think with the Hawks we should be ok to cover the loss of Libba.

and he is doing it




2023 AFL League Total Clearances Leaders (Minimum 2 Games Played)





Rank
Player
Team
Games
Clearances for Last Game
Total


1
Marcus Bontempelli (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--marcus-bontempelli)
Bulldogs (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-western-bulldogs)
6
8 v Fremantle, Round 6 (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=10796)
50


1
Patrick Cripps (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-carlton-blues--patrick-cripps)
Blues (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-carlton-blues)
6
6 v St Kilda, Round 6 (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=10801)
50


1
Darcy Parish (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-essendon-bombers--darcy-parish)
Bombers (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-essendon-bombers)
6
9 v Collingwood, Round 6 (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=10804)
50


4
Lachie Neale (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-brisbane-lions--lachie-neale)
Lions (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-brisbane-lions)
6
6 v GWS, Round 6 (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=10798)
47


4
Caleb Serong (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-fremantle-dockers--caleb-serong)
Dockers (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-fremantle-dockers)
6
10 v Western Bulldogs, Round 6 (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=10796)
47


6
Matt Rowell (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-gold-coast-suns--matt-rowell)
Suns (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-gold-coast-suns)
6
4 v North Melbourne, Round 6 (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=10802)
44


7
Rory Laird (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-adelaide-crows--rory-laird)
Crows (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-adelaide-crows)
6
10 v Hawthorn, Round 6 (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=10800)
43


7
Clayton Oliver (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-melbourne-demons--clayton-oliver)
Demons (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-melbourne-demons)
6
6 v Richmond, Round 6 (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=10803)
43


9
Stephen Coniglio (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-greater-western-sydney-giants--stephen-coniglio)
Giants (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-greater-western-sydney-giants)
6
8 v Brisbane, Round 6 (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=10798)
40


9
Touk Miller (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-gold-coast-suns--touk-miller)
Suns (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-gold-coast-suns)
6
3 v North Melbourne, Round 6 (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=10802)
40

[Matjoh]

Depends if they were any good or not. Counting stats can?t be the be all and end all of a players worth to the team. The fact is he?s had one very good VFL game and almost no impact at senior level. I?m not against giving him a run in the firsts but the reality is, he?s not getting midfield time in front of Bont, Macrae, Treloar, Libba and probably Smith. There may be an opportunity for a better run this week but it looked like he tried to tag Serong at times from centre bounce last week and it didn?t go well.
I hope for the best for Toby, he?s still got plenty of football ahead of him if his body is right, but he needs to improve what he?s putting out there. Otherwise he?ll be putting up big VFL stats pretty regularly.
McLean had 7 marks, 9 tackles and 19 clearances. I'd count that as good but ok the VFL isn't AFL but he deserved another go.
He and Arty came out about even stat wise for the freo game. FOr mine though Arty has done very little since coming in to keep his place and has been at the bottom of stats.
Unfortunately I think Toby is on the outer like Wallis was and will be gone either this year or next.

[1eyedog]

Worried about McLean now but this feels like a well balanced side.

[whythelongface]

McLean had 7 marks, 9 tackles and 19 clearances. I'd count that as good but ok the VFL isn't AFL but he deserved another go.
He and Arty came out about even stat wise for the freo game. FOr mine though Arty has done very little since coming in to keep his place and has been at the bottom of stats.
Unfortunately I think Toby is on the outer like Wallis was and will be gone either this year or next.


On the outer? Sorry don?t buy that. I want Toby to succeed but unfortunately his form doesn?t warrant selection at the moment. Hard to compare with Arty as they are playing different roles.

[GVGjr]

McLean had 7 marks, 9 tackles and 19 clearances. I'd count that as good but ok the VFL isn't AFL but he deserved another go.
He and Arty came out about even stat wise for the freo game. FOr mine though Arty has done very little since coming in to keep his place and has been at the bottom of stats.
Unfortunately I think Toby is on the outer like Wallis was and will be gone either this year or next.

It's an interesting observation and comparison, on Wednesday in the match sim McLean was in the midfield centre square match-ups and to me he didn't perform like I hoped. Wallis just didn't have the leg speed needed to play midfield and we went in a different direction with our forward set-up. I'd like to think it's just on Toby to grab his chances.
Regarding the stats comparison between Jones and McLean well they are playing different roles at the moment so the stats aren't telling the full story in regards to selection.

The merits of Jones vs McNeil might be a more interesting discussion.

[angelopetraglia]

Will Toby be the sub?

[bornadog]

Will Toby be the sub?

Hopefully

[kruder]

I know libba is out but only one change, I'm liking the continuity.

I'm not sure if Lade is having an influence but our changes seem to be more predictable this year.

[Happy Days]

Weddle and Ramsden debuting for the Hawks. They're going young, really young

Yes and no. They dropped two of their more recent top 10 picks to fit those guys in.

[Happy Days]

149.

I?m not so sure. They pushed Adelaide all the way last week, who would completely beat us if we were playing tomorrow.

[1eyedog]

I?m not so sure. They pushed Adelaide all the way last week, who would completely beat us if we were playing tomorrow.

If this is the case I should go on that holiday to Antarctica till mid-October then.

[The Underdog]

I?m not so sure. They pushed Adelaide all the way last week, who would completely beat us if we were playing tomorrow.

Needs a big asterisk *in Launceston where they are 200% better than in Melbourne

[Mantis]

Will Toby be the sub?


Hopefully

Why would we want Toby to be the sub?

He was horrible in the role just 2 weeks ago and didn't take his chance when played as a starter last week... time to give him a full game in the VFL team and give someone else a go.

[bornadog]

Why would we want Toby to be the sub?

He was horrible in the role just 2 weeks ago and didn't take his chance when played as a starter last week... time to give him a full game in the VFL team and give someone else a go.

I prefer a mid/Fwd to be sub and we don't have anyone else that plays that role. Hannan needs toi play a full game in the VFL, and I don't think Buku or Darcy should be subs.

[Mantis]

I prefer a mid/Fwd to be sub and we don't have anyone else that plays that role. Hannan needs toi play a full game in the VFL, and I don't think Buku or Darcy should be subs.

Not sure why you’ve mentioned Hannan because he isn’t a listed emergency, West is.

[bornadog]

Not sure why you’ve mentioned Hannan because he isn’t a listed emergency, West is.

My mistake, I went on memory.

West should be dominating at VFL level, but at the moment just going ok, so I wouldn’t consider him either.

who would you rather for sub ?

[Virgin-Dog]

McLean had 7 marks, 9 tackles and 19 clearances. I'd count that as good but ok the VFL isn't AFL but he deserved another go.
He and Arty came out about even stat wise for the freo game. FOr mine though Arty has done very little since coming in to keep his place and has been at the bottom of stats.
Unfortunately I think Toby is on the outer like Wallis was and will be gone either this year or next.
Arty has stayed in because of his pressure. I look forward to seeing both him and McNeil in for a full game together

[Rocco Jones]

With Toby, I think he might be sub due to Libba being out. Libba leads our mids with CBAs for the season, attended 78%. Baz comes in who has averaged of 33%, surely he and Macrae (51%) share Libba's load but McLean might be wanted for cover. I don't like him as a small forward/wing at AFL level (would like to see him play there in VFL if that's the plan) but not like West is great there. Think McLean best bet until Libba is back.

[Grantysghost]

With Toby, I think he might be sub due to Libba being out. Libba leads our mids with CBAs for the season, attended 78%. Baz comes in who has averaged of 33%, surely he and Macrae (51%) share Libba's load but McLean might be wanted for cover. I don't like him as a small forward/wing at AFL level (would like to see him play there in VFL if that's the plan) but not like West is great there. Think McLean best bet until Libba is back.

Stop making sense.

I was trying to think how we would spread the Libba load - you've pretty much nailed it I reckon.

Was thinking Caleb or Weightman (after training reports) maybe might pinch hit?

[Grantysghost]

I?m not so sure. They pushed Adelaide all the way last week, who would completely beat us if we were playing tomorrow.

If we lose this HD I will not post again all season.

How many of you will now cheer on the Hawks I don't know, it maybe a few.
Chef for 1.

[Rocco Jones]

Stop making sense.

I was trying to think how we would spread the Libba load - you've pretty much nailed it I reckon.

Was thinking Caleb or Weightman (after training reports) maybe might pinch hit?


Haha. Thanks.

Yeah if we look at Libba's share as about 75%, think it's shared by:
- Macrae joining Bont and Adz in that 70ish% CBA A team, that's about ^20-25%
- Bazz coming back in after an injury a bit of a risk but I guess he takes Macrae's spot as next guy, he goes up by about 20-25%
- Find a bit more time for Bont and/or Adz but probably about ^10% combo max.
- I think Daniel and/or Cody will pinch hit but can't see Bevo giving them more than 20% combined (roughly 6 CBAs fwiw).
- Toby there as a bit of a insurance if anyone goes down and probably has a couple of CBAs either way after being subbed on.

[hujsh]

I'd probably give Toby a full game in the VFL and have West as the sub. If he gets to a CBA then good for him. TBH it's disappointing we're already out of players putting their hand up for a spot in the 22.

[Mantis]

I'd probably give Toby a full game in the VFL and have West as the sub. If he gets to a CBA then good for him. TBH it's disappointing we're already out of players putting their hand up for a spot in the 22.

The fact that there is no continuity for the VFL team doesn't help players to press their case for selection... having a few over as emergencies in WA with the senior side wasn't ideal either but had to happen.

I'd be happy with either West or Buku as the sub this week... Toby has had 2 goes, and whilst hasn't been played in the only role he can fill (inside mid) I'd like him to get a full game in this week.

[bornadog]

Stop making sense.

I was trying to think how we would spread the Libba load - you've pretty much nailed it I reckon.

Was thinking Caleb or Weightman (after training reports) maybe might pinch hit?

Caleb will play some midfield time according to Presso from Bevo

[D Mitchell]

.....
We are a much better side with Bruce not in. ...

If you add "...the forward line" I agree with you. A fitter (since 2021) Bruce is wasted in the backline and the current 3 tall Naughton, Lobb & Ugle-Hagan doesn't work, it averages 3 goals a game with almost a third of the season gone. Bruce is the closest we have to a monster forward and that role is not contemplated in the current 3 tall set up which competes rather than complements among its component parts. The forward set up hasn't worked since 2021 when it comprised Bruce, the monster; Naughton the high flying excitement machine and Wallis, the calmer, creative sharp shooter. Time for an urgent re think.

[Happy Days]

If you add "...the forward line" I agree with you. A fitter (since 2021) Bruce is wasted in the backline and the current 3 tall Naughton, Lobb & Ugle-Hagan doesn't work, it averages 3 goals a game with almost a third of the season gone. Bruce is the closest we have to a monster forward and that role is not contemplated in the current 3 tall set up which competes rather than complements among its component parts. The forward set up hasn't worked since 2021 when it comprised Bruce, the monster; Naughton the high flying excitement machine and Wallis, the calmer, creative sharp shooter. Time for an urgent re think.

Wallis played 6 games in 2021 for 4 goals.

[D Mitchell]

Wallis played 6 games in 2021 for 4 goals.
Quite right. 2020. In 2021 we ran a 2 tall forward line, relying upon mids and the then emerging Weightman for support. Thanks.

[chef]

If we lose this HD I will not post again all season.

How many of you will now cheer on the Hawks I don't know, it maybe a few.
Chef for 1.

Haha im with you. 150 point win coming up and I'll be there to enjoy it.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

If you add "...the forward line" I agree with you. A fitter (since 2021) Bruce is wasted in the backline and the current 3 tall Naughton, Lobb & Ugle-Hagan doesn't work, it averages 3 goals a game with almost a third of the season gone. Bruce is the closest we have to a monster forward and that role is not contemplated in the current 3 tall set up which competes rather than complements among its component parts. The forward set up hasn't worked since 2021 when it comprised Bruce, the monster; Naughton the high flying excitement machine and Wallis, the calmer, creative sharp shooter. Time for an urgent re think.

Bruce was clearly move to defence to allow Lobb to play forward which clearly hasn’t worked so far both forward and as a back up ruck man to English. Gardner is clearly a better defender.

[D Mitchell]

Bruce was clearly move to defence to allow Lobb to play forward which clearly hasn’t worked so far both forward and as a back up ruck man to English. Gardner is clearly a better defender.

The team should take priority over the player. Accommodating Lobb shouldn't be a priority. Moving Bruce to defence looks to be accepting that the forward line, which took us into a Grand Final in 2021, needed a change. It was the mids and defence that allowed Melbourne to set up its win in the back end of the 3rd quarter, not the forwards.

So instruct
(a) Bruce, when he's fit again, to play from the forward goal square;
(b) Dale, Richards, Daniel, anyone else in possession of the ball more that 30 metres forward of the oppos' goals to kick the ball forward, not sideways;
(c) all those Mc(blokes with Scottish surnames names) to take up positions front and centre when the ball comes in high and zip the ball around and clear to deep forwards;
(d) Baker, Williams, whoever else plays on the wing to
(i) stay put/drop back when Dale/Richards/Daniel press up beyond the centre line; and
(ii) play closer in to accommodate the more direct style.

[bornadog]

If you add "...the forward line" I agree with you. A fitter (since 2021) Bruce is wasted in the backline and the current 3 tall Naughton, Lobb & Ugle-Hagan doesn't work, it averages 3 goals a game with almost a third of the season gone. Bruce is the closest we have to a monster forward and that role is not contemplated in the current 3 tall set up which competes rather than complements among its component parts. The forward set up hasn't worked since 2021 when it comprised Bruce, the monster; Naughton the high flying excitement machine and Wallis, the calmer, creative sharp shooter. Time for an urgent re think.

We needed Lobb for the second ruck role, I mean for gods sake we had every supporter whinging and carrying on because we played some unusual players in the role - Dunks, Hannan even Bont.

The three talls is starting to click and last week they had 16 marks. Bruce is no second ruck.

[Danjul]

We needed Lobb for the second ruck role, I mean for gods sake we had every supporter whinging and carrying on because we played some unusual players in the role - Dunks, Hannan even Bont.

The three talls is starting to click and last week they had 16 marks. Bruce is no second ruck.

and rightly so.

[D Mitchell]

We needed Lobb for the second ruck role, I mean for gods sake we had every supporter whinging and carrying on because we played some unusual players in the role - Dunks, Hannan even Bont.

The three talls is starting to click and last week they had 16 marks. Bruce is no second ruck.

Bolded bit. "starting to click" isn't tenable whilst the average remains 3 per week and 1/3 rd of the season's gone. 2 years ago we were in a Grand Final, lost by the failures of mids and defenders, yet the selectors chose to bolster forwards ! Sweet languishing in the VFL says they think he's not up to it so no complaints about recruiting a 2nd ruck but Lobb only wants to be a forward ! Sam Power is the 2nd best person on staff and 3rd best brain in football. Recruiting isn't the issue, it's selection and game plan.

[GVGjr]

and rightly so.

I don't get why so many were seemingly okay enough with seeing the likes of Bont taking ruck contests when it's not that hard to add a more genuine ruck option on the playing list. I assume no one would actually want that by design but it happened more than it should have.

[D Mitchell]

I don't get why so many were seemingly okay enough with seeing the likes of Bont taking ruck contests when it's not that hard to add a more genuine ruck option on the playing list. I assume no one would actually want that by design but it happened more than it should have.

Bont's 2016 3rd man up in ruck contests around the ground arguably won us a flag. The AFL changed the rules. The penultimate ruck rule change was post 1979 Dempsey-Moore Preliminary final wrestling match. 'Ted didn't get the ultimate acknowledgment, a "The ". Wrong thread but, on the eve of 200 games, I'm declaring it. The Bont is our, probably the, best ever.

[jeemak]

Does anyone advocating for Bruce to play forward remember what he was like in 2020 when he first got to the club? Or, how he was post his reconstruction when playing forward?

We need to get games into Marra, and we need a forward capable of playing as a second ruck that Bevo will actually play - thus we've got Lobb.

Having just come off the week where our tall forwards of Lobb, Marra and Naughton all contributed but left chances on the table, I'm really not sure where the angst is coming from.

I haven't been impressed with Lobb, but I also recognise he came into the season needing surgery which he's now had, and is still trying to fit into a system in a team that's not been moving the ball well at all with exception to last week.

He's been brought across to play and has contributed, but not to the level we may have hoped. Don't think it's time to go back to Bruce because of it though.

[Mofra]

Does anyone advocating for Bruce to play forward remember what he was like in 2020 when he first got to the club? Or, how he was post his reconstruction when playing forward?

We need to get games into Marra, and we need a forward capable of playing as a second ruck that Bevo will actually play - thus we've got Lobb.

Having just come off the week where our tall forwards of Lobb, Marra and Naughton all contributed but left chances on the table, I'm really not sure where the angst is coming from.

I haven't been impressed with Lobb, but I also recognise he came into the season needing surgery which he's now had, and is still trying to fit into a system in a team that's not been moving the ball well at all with exception to last week.

He's been brought across to play and has contributed, but not to the level we may have hoped. Don't think it's time to go back to Bruce because of it though.
If Bruce was uncontracted for 2023, would he have gotten an extension last year? Hard to say but it's no definite.
Bruce isn't the answer in the F50 and as underwhelming as Lobb's been (arguably due to our own mismanagement of his ankle) Lobb already separates better from Naughton than Bruce did for most of his forward time with us.

[EasternWest]

If Bruce was uncontracted for 2023, would he have gotten an extension last year? Hard to say but it's no definite.
Bruce isn't the answer in the F50 and as underwhelming as Lobb's been (arguably due to our own mismanagement of his ankle) Lobb already separates better from Naughton than Bruce did for most of his forward time with us.

Plus when Lobb kicks goals they actually count.

[D Mitchell]

The Club should have considered defence rather than forwards as the antidote to 2021 and resurgence. we are now out to 6 years since.

[jeemak]

The Club should have considered defence rather than forwards as the antidote to 2021 and resurgence. we are now out to 6 years since.

Liam Jones reads this with a sad face. Tim O'Brien too.

[bornadog]

Liam Jones reads this with a sad face. Tim O'Brien too.

I have been very impressed with Jones this year and hope he keeps it going. In fact, I have actually been impressed with Bruce in the backline as well. Whilst not being a star, and making a few errors, his size and bulk puts some fear into opposition talls - something we haven't had for a long time.

[Happy Days]

The Club should have considered defence rather than forwards as the antidote to 2021 and resurgence. we are now out to 6 years since.

We literally used our first pick this year on a key defender.

[azabob]

I have been very impressed with Jones this year and hope he keeps it going. In fact, I have actually been impressed with Bruce in the backline as well. Whilst not being a star, and making a few errors, his size and bulk puts some fear into opposition talls - something we haven't had for a long time.

Spot on BAD.
Humble pie for me on the Jones recruitment and dare I say Bruce has been our 2nd best key defender behind Jones.

[GVGjr]

Does anyone advocating for Bruce to play forward remember what he was like in 2020 when he first got to the club? Or, how he was post his reconstruction when playing forward?

We need to get games into Marra, and we need a forward capable of playing as a second ruck that Bevo will actually play - thus we've got Lobb.

Having just come off the week where our tall forwards of Lobb, Marra and Naughton all contributed but left chances on the table, I'm really not sure where the angst is coming from.

I haven't been impressed with Lobb, but I also recognise he came into the season needing surgery which he's now had, and is still trying to fit into a system in a team that's not been moving the ball well at all with exception to last week.

He's been brought across to play and has contributed, but not to the level we may have hoped. Don't think it's time to go back to Bruce because of it though.

I do recall Bruce being given significant credits for throwing his weight around in 2020 and doing bugger all for a number of weeks that year and the MC stuck with him. He had a very good 2021 and was a great foil Naughton that year and for some reason we didn't bring in anyone to replace him in 2022 even knowing that he wouldn't add much for us given his injury.

He's certainly underachieved since we recruited him but had we not recruited Lobb and played Bruce as a forward I suspect he might have been closer to his 2021 form this year than his 2020 form.
He's been okay as a defender so he had been making the most of his new role.

I'd prefer to keep him as a defender but I think there could be some times when he is thrown forward.

[jeemak]

I do recall Bruce being given significant credits for throwing his weight around in 2020 and doing bugger all for a number of weeks that year and the MC stuck with him. He had a very good 2021 and was a great foil Naughton that year and for some reason we didn't bring in anyone to replace him in 2022 even knowing that he wouldn't add much for us given his injury.

He's certainly underachieved since we recruited him but had we not recruited Lobb and played Bruce as a forward I suspect he might have been closer to his 2021 form this year than his 2020 form.
He's been okay as a defender so he had been making the most of his new role.

I'd prefer to keep him as a defender but I think there could be some times when he is thrown forward.

I was all for playing Bruce forward when Lobb was out.

[1eyedog]

Liam Jones reads this with a sad face. Tim O'Brien too.

Cleary another

[jeemak]

Cleary another

Well we drafted him. I don't think drafting counts in terms of trying to fix things. Or at least it doesn't if it goes wrong.

[1eyedog]

Well we drafted him. I don't think drafting counts in terms of trying to fix things. Or at least it doesn't if it goes wrong.

I misunderstood the conversation I think.

Crozier perhaps.

[MrMahatma]

Well we drafted him. I don't think drafting counts in terms of trying to fix things. Or at least it doesn't if it goes wrong.

So Bruce’s goals don’t count, and drafting defenders doesn’t count.

Footy keeps getting tougher.

[Bulldog Legend]

McNeil has played good footy for us at times and gives us some more much needed pace

[Bulldog Legend]

Well we drafted him. I don't think drafting counts in terms of trying to fix things. Or at least it doesn't if it goes wrong.
LOL what nonsense
We have done both drafting and recruiting I really don’t know what you are talking about

[Bulldog Legend]

Do all of Keath, Jones and O'Brien have a match-up against the Hawks? I didn't watch their game but they looked like they went with a very small forward line on paper.
TOB can play big or small similar to what Wood used to do which is why we wanted him and why we persisted through injury issues. If he gets a clear run he is what we need but not as a KPD

[GVGjr]

McNeil has played good footy for us at times and gives us some more much needed pace

He really needs to make the most of any chances he gets.

[Happy Days]

LOL what nonsense
We have done both drafting and recruiting I really don’t know what you are talking about

I think your sarcasm detector might need some tuning BL.

[jeemak]

LOL what nonsense
We have done both drafting and recruiting I really don’t know what you are talking about

Agreed. We've taken measures to improve our defence over the past few years in drafting a key defender, mid-size defender, and recruiting mature versions of each, yet the claim was we haven't prioritised our defence.

You could also argue we drafted Darcy knowing he could swing into defence as well as he's developing.

[Grantysghost]

He really needs to make the most of any chances he gets.

What does that look like do we think G?

I know we take the mick out of pressure acts, however I think this is his bread and butter.

Tackles, pressure acts, link up play.

If he snags a goal that's the cream on the cake.

[Bulldog Joe]

Stop making sense.

I was trying to think how we would spread the Libba load - you've pretty much nailed it I reckon.

Was thinking Caleb or Weightman (after training reports) maybe might pinch hit?

I would like to see Naughton have a few centre bounce appearances as I think he could add a real difference in critical games.

Good opportunity to try it.

[Grantysghost]

I would like to see Naughton have a few centre bounce appearances as I think he could add a real difference in critical games.

Good opportunity to try it.

That's left field, never thought of that before have to say it's a reasonable suggestion. He's like a cat when it hits the deck.
Love the idea, doubt very much Bevo would go for it though.
He'd be all right as a follower type ruckman scrapping for that second ball.

[jeemak]

I would love it if we turned Naughton into a ruck, just for the laughs around here!

[GVGjr]

What does that look like do we think G?

I know we take the mick out of pressure acts, however I think this is his bread and butter.

Tackles, pressure acts, link up play.

If he snags a goal that's the cream on the cake.

Kicking a goal or two and not missing it would be a huge help for him. He just needs to game where his natural attributes shine a bit.

[GVGjr]

I would love it if we turned Naughton into a ruck, just for the laughs around here!

The other day Granty mentioned he felt sorry for Essendon. I respectfully informed him that attitude might get him a two week ban from WOOF :)
While Naughton into the ruck would generate some traffic for us I'd prefer we don't go there :)

[D Mitchell]

I suspect that Grantysghost meant as inside mid rather than as tap.