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View Full Version : MEDIA: The rise of loud and opinionated AFL media is reflective of a wider malaise



bornadog
21-04-2023, 09:29 AM
link (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/apr/20/the-rise-of-loud-and-opinionated-afl-media-is-reflective-of-a-wider-malaise)

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/7703a71546769c3e81714bae3f51435543d797b1/0_149_3000_1800/master/3000.jpg?width=465&quality=85&dpr=1&s=none

Football voices led by the likes of Kane Cornes are symptomatic of a landscape where all that matters are clicks and outrage

?It?s about creating content, basically,? Kane Cornes told the podcaster Dylan Buckley in 2021. ?You?re always thinking, ?what am I going to say next?? Or you?re lying awake ? what?s the angle going to be tomorrow? What?s the reaction here??

Cornes has been in the football news all week. Jason Horne Francis was the matchwinner on Saturday night, but Cornes became the story. It?s the same most weeks. He trends on Twitter. He defends himself on TV, radio and social media. He drives the agenda. He weighs in. He lashes out. He pushes back. He?s the game?s most divisive figure.

He?s pretty honest about who he is, and what he?s doing. He?s a content creator. He was obsessive as a footballer, and has brought the same intensity to his new career. He is a keen marathon runner, and is similarly indefatigable as a pundit. By the time most of us have buttered our toast, he?s found a dozen things to object to in the footballing world. He remains the consummate tagger ? he doesn?t let go, and he doesn?t concede ground.

I?m conscious that this is turning into a hit piece. It?s really not my intention. Cornes has his place. He has his talents. He?s excellent on special comments on radio. In an industry where so many have a few bob each way, he?s willing to stick his neck out. He recently took over Wayne Carey?s weekly column in The Age and has already had more original takes than Carey managed in eight years. He?s unquestionably the hardest working person in the football media. He has collared radio, TV and print. He?s firing up at six in the morning on radio, and still going at 10:30 at night on Footy Classified. I?m not sure I?ve seen anyone in football who puts in more hours.

In many ways, he reflects a wider media malaise. His schtick is symptomatic of a sporting landscape where journalists and analysts are further distanced from the people they write and talk about. More broadly, it?s symptomatic of a media where a handful of loud, opinionated and well-paid voices dominate the landscape, where all that matters is the click, the engagement, the outrage. In this country, there are Kane Cornes clones opining on The Voice, on climate, on anything that actually matters. They?re experts on everything. They never back down. What matters above all else is the strength of their conviction.

?I consume a lot of American media,? Cornes told Buckley. ?And they just don?t care! The best ones, the highest paid ones, the ones with the biggest profiles, are the ones that have a big opinion?.that?s just the strategy that I?ve gone with. Yes it?s been calculated to go that way, but it?s my style and it?s what I believe in.?

Overreach in the football media is nothing new. Look at Tony Lockett spearing his crutches at a young Eddie McGuire. Look at Jack Riewoldt being chased through Richmond train station like he was one of those dodgy plumbers of A Current Affair. What?s changed, and what Cornes has seized on, is the emphasis on opinion. ?We play an opinion-based game,? Brad Scott said a few years ago. And these opinions, these hot takes, particularly from Cornes, are increasingly focused on very young players.

In November, potential draftees are ?contested ball beasts?, ?full of upside? and ?young men of outstanding character?. Someone whacks a polo top on them. They?re no longer a number. They?re in the system. And as far as people like Cornes are concerned, they?re suddenly fair game. He has considerable history on this front. He said Sam Walsh, who was 18 years old and three months into his career, wasn?t a worthy No 1 pick. He didn?t like Sydney Stack?s use of Tik Tok.

He didn?t like Jack Ginnivan?s use of a GoPro. There are common themes ? you?re nothing special, you?re nothing until you win a premiership, don?t enjoy yourself, don?t get ahead of yourself. He seems determined to leach every last morsel of fun out of these young men. But they?re not NFL or Premier League players. They?re not making 500k a week. Most would prefer to ply their trade without being ripped apart for posting on Instagram, or for having a whacky haircut, or for having three beers instead of two, or for any of the other piddling offences deemed atrocities by Kane.

There?s a weekly trajectory. A 6:30am sneer on radio becomes the week?s story. It then prompts a rebuttal, then a column, then a podcast, then an ?industry conversation?. So and so weighs in; so and so hits back. By the time the actual round rolls around, we?re sick of football. We?ve forgotten who?s arguing with who. As Charlie Cameron tweeted a few years ago, ?Is it just me or is everyone in the AFL media arguing against each other to make a story out of it??

The thing is, and I?m doing it now, we?re giving him exactly what he and his bosses want. We get all wound up by any one of his dozen daily gripes. We send him narky tweets. His comments are reported word for word by every news outlet. He drives the news agenda every week. By even focusing on Cornes here, I?m part of the problem. I get that.

But if you like this sport, if you read newspapers, and if you use social media, he?s almost impossible to avoid. He?s like the gambling ads. He?s ubiquitous. He?s the tagger who nags and niggles. All he wants is a reaction, and we keep giving him one.

Subject yourself to enough of these hot takes and it can leave you resenting the sport. But the onus is on us. I?ve spoken to a lot of people who have simply stopped consuming football media. They might watch The Front Bar on a Wednesday night and go to a game on the weekend. It?s important to push back. It?s important to shake the Cornes tag. It?s important to have coaches like Ken Hinkley who defend their young players. It important to realise there?s excellent work being done elsewhere ? in analytics, in club-focused blogs and in long form profiles. Football is more than content creation. It?s more than an ?opinion-based game?. And it?s more than a searing hot take. If Cornes and a few of the more prominent flame throwers could appreciate that, maybe the rest of us could enjoy it a little bit more.

The Underdog
21-04-2023, 10:12 AM
I watch a couple of games of footy on the weekend if I can, and aside from the occasional swing past AFL.com and what I read on here, consume almost no AFL related media outside of that. Stopped listening to SEN. Have no interest in the discourse or the Women's Weekly type stories on players personal lives. Part of this is the content churn and lack of substance. Part is me being a middle aged curmudgeon.

Grantysghost
21-04-2023, 10:23 AM
It's the US model of sports broadcasting and Hutchy brought it back with him.

Footy Classified was contrived debate laced with faux outrage, almost like a Machiavellian magician leveraging conflict for clicks (eyes on).

Cornes is a Hutchy acolyte.

Personally it's turned me off AFL media completely.

There is no serious analysis anywhere. I want to see tactics broken down.

jeemak
21-04-2023, 11:35 AM
I often hear there's too many AFL accredited media people, and that's a problem, but to me a greater problem is (as I've argued before) there's too high a concentration of the same people across the various platforms and days of the week.

It's self perpetuating and delivers very little value, which is why I don't consume AFL media outside of what's posted here.

Grantysghost
21-04-2023, 11:39 AM
I often hear there's too many AFL accredited media people, and that's a problem, but to me a greater problem is (as I've argued before) there's too high a concentration of the same people across the various platforms and days of the week.

It's self perpetuating and delivers very little value, which is why I don't consume AFL media outside of what's posted here.

There are a couple of good analysts on the ABC that do a bit of a deep dive into some of the tactics. There was one about the Crows using the kick-in rule to their advantage the other day I'll dig it up.

Edit: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-20/adelaide-crows-kick-in-surge-into-afl-finals-contention/102244952

azabob
21-04-2023, 12:21 PM
There is no serious analysis anywhere. I want to see tactics broken down.

The percentage of footy punters who want that are very small. I'd argue only half of posters on woof would want to see this.

David King, Daniel Hoyne - are great to listen to and use data to help form opinions. Which sort of then tells you teams gameplans.

The other one was Mark McGowan when he worked for AFL.com use to do an amazing podcast.

For mine the best shows going are First Crack (tv), Monday Means test (SEN Radio), Thursday Strategy (SEN Radio).

To remove the sameness of media you need to dig deeper into independent scribes such as The Mongrel Punt, The Shinboner and the ABC guys you linked.

Anyone else got any recommendations?

D Mitchell
21-04-2023, 12:30 PM
... about creating content, basically,? Kane Cornes told the podcaster Dylan Buckley in 2021. ?You?re always thinking, ?what am I going to say next?? Or you?re lying awake ? what?s the angle going to be tomorrow? What?s the reaction here??

Cornes has been in the football news all week. Jason Horne Francis was the matchwinner on Saturday night, but Cornes became the story. It?s the same most weeks. He trends on Twitter. He defends himself on TV, radio and social media. He drives the agenda. He weighs in. He lashes out. He pushes back. He?s the game?s most divisive figure.

He?s pretty honest about who he is, and what he?s doing. He?s a content creator. He was obsessive as a footballer, and has brought the same intensity to his new career. He is a keen marathon runner, and is similarly indefatigable as a pundit. By the time most of us have buttered our toast, he?s found a dozen things to object to in the footballing world. He remains the consummate tagger ? he doesn?t let go, and he doesn?t concede ground.

.....Ther.. If Cornes and a few of the more prominent flame throwers could appreciate that, maybe the rest of us could enjoy it a little bit more.

A very enjoyable post. I like the way you equate Cornes' playing and journalistic styles. In an age of instant replays; detailed and available stats and ready access to players, coaches and administrators; there's nowhere for a journo to go other than opinion. The beauty of being a reader of opinion is that you don't have to believe/accept it and you get to look at the reasoning in the opinion and sources whence came the opinion, that's a lot more fun than the 1980's match reviews and quarter by quarter descriptions. Not being an avid reader of footy journos or watcher of footy TV shows, I don't have an informed opinion of Cornes' journalism but whenever I do stray onto the Sunday morning Channel 9 show, I like his comparative self effacement, that he doesn't talk about himself, the way that, say (Nathan) Brown, Lloyd, McGuire, Newman do and, in the context of your post, ironically that he was an unfashionable, skinny tagger from Adelaide.

Happy Days
21-04-2023, 12:49 PM
The percentage of footy punters who want that are very small. I'd argue only half of posters on woof would want to see this.

David King, Daniel Hoyne - are great to listen to and use data to help form opinions. Which sort of then tells you teams gameplans.

The other one was Mark McGowan when he worked for AFL.com use to do an amazing podcast.

For mine the best shows going are First Crack (tv), Monday Means test (SEN Radio), Thursday Strategy (SEN Radio).

To remove the sameness of media you need to dig deeper into independent scribes such as The Mongrel Punt, The Shinboner and the ABC guys you linked.

Anyone else got any recommendations?

Only one I could add is the pre-game show on SEN Saturday (think from around 11-1) used to be a dedicated analysis segment with an ex-coach (was Leppitsch in 2021, I think Lyon or Sanderson in 2022). I haven’t had the chance to listen so far this year so unsure if it’s still on the air.

Grantysghost
21-04-2023, 12:58 PM
There are a couple of good analysts on the ABC that do a bit of a deep dive into some of the tactics. There was one about the Crows using the kick-in rule to their advantage the other day I'll dig it up.

Edit: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-20/adelaide-crows-kick-in-surge-into-afl-finals-contention/102244952

Interesting side note out of this article is that we kick the shortest from our kick-outs this season.

https://i.postimg.cc/nL5FVzd4/kickins.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Happy Days
21-04-2023, 12:59 PM
Interesting side note out of this article is that we kick the shortest from our kick-outs this season.

https://i.postimg.cc/nL5FVzd4/kickins.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

I’d wager that’s because Bailey Dale looks for a 1-2 from about 20m out every time he takes one.

ledge
21-04-2023, 06:42 PM
Oh the media . Pick on players. Put pressure on them to perform then when the public get on board they abuse the public for too much pressure :-) JHF the perfect example , wrote articles about him not liking ice baths he being glad to get out of North etc then have a go at the public for booing him.

azabob
27-08-2024, 08:16 PM
Kane Cornes jumping ship from channel 9 and going to channel 7 in 2025.

angelopetraglia
27-08-2024, 08:36 PM
Kane has paved his own path. Playing the heel is lucrative. He has carved out a nice career for himself and has moved into the number #1 media exposure spot. The free to air official broadcaster. He knows what he is doing and he is super professional in buidling his career and he is mostly well prepared.

Nothing personal to Kane. But it is sad state of affairds, that we are rewarding this style of media pundit with the prime job. But people essentialy get what they deserve. His style is generating the most eyeballs and clicks.

jeemak
27-08-2024, 09:13 PM
In a world where David King (who is much better than most) gets huge kudos for attending one, maybe two, preseason training sessions per club to support his analytical prowess it's not difficult to understand how the gulf between informed football opinion and what we get today has developed.

Not attacking King, who at least has the demonstrated desktop analytical skills (backed by a huge team I'm sure) to justify his opinions, rather, just pointing out how far away from reality Cornes probably is.

Funnily I think at clubland they'd prefer the outrageous hot takes week on week being presented as fact rather than anything reasonably researched and close enough to the truth. They can cocoon and get on with things. As always it's the footy consuming mugs who are left behind.

angelopetraglia
27-08-2024, 09:22 PM
In a world where David King (who is much better than most) gets huge kudos for attending one, maybe two, preseason training sessions per club to support his analytical prowess it's not difficult to understand how the gulf between informed football opinion and what we get today has developed.

Not attacking King, who at least has the demonstrated desktop analytical skills (backed by a huge team I'm sure) to justify his opinions, rather, just pointing out how far away from reality Cornes probably is.

Funnily I think at clubland they'd prefer the outrageous hot takes week on week being presented as fact rather than anything reasonably researched and close enough to the truth. They can cocoon and get on with things. As always it's the footy consuming mugs who are left behind.

Unfortunately I listened to the RealFooty podcast with Caro, Gleeson and Niall.

Can you believe the narrative that Caro was pushing? That people are relunctant to take coaching jobs due to the scrutiny of people like King and Cornes. She especially went hard at King, under the coverage of what her sources were telling her. That they were in particular sour on how hard King this year has been going after Fagan and his lack of coaching nous. She was pushing this view completely blind to her playing a massive role in assasinating coaches. She said there was a view that this constant stream of coaching scrutiny has dimished the status of the coaching job in the community.

Can you believe that she just left out the part of her consitently saying bad things about Bevo and others over the journey (from memory epsecially Clarkson and Malthouse)?

I could not believe how blind she was to her own behaviour.

Grantysghost
27-08-2024, 09:26 PM
Has anyone in the media mentioned our tactic of running a mid off half back at centre bounce?

I mean can they possibly dumb it down any more.

Luke Hodge is the worst. Droll monotone boof head espousing clich?s for a bone headed audience.

You know who is actually good and you wouldnt expect it.

Daisy Thomas. He knows what he's talking about.

bulldogsthru&thru
27-08-2024, 09:37 PM
Yeah I've been pleasantly surprised with Daisy.

Question is how long until the dumbing down of channel 7 is ingrained into him.

comrade
27-08-2024, 11:00 PM
Daisy is the best recent retiree by the length of Flemington. Explains things well. Jordan Lewis is actually horrid but you can tell he thinks he?s amazing.

jeemak
27-08-2024, 11:11 PM
Unfortunately I listened to the RealFooty podcast with Caro, Gleeson and Niall.

Can you believe the narrative that Caro was pushing? That people are relunctant to take coaching jobs due to the scrutiny of people like King and Cornes. She especially went hard at King, under the coverage of what her sources were telling her. That they were in particular sour on how hard King this year has been going after Fagan and his lack of coaching nous. She was pushing this view completely blind to her playing a massive role in assasinating coaches. She said there was a view that this constant stream of coaching scrutiny has dimished the status of the coaching job in the community.

Can you believe that she just left out the part of her consitently saying bad things about Bevo and others over the journey (from memory epsecially Clarkson and Malthouse)?

I could not believe how blind she was to her own behaviour.

It's not blind, and I read the same article. It's like Winston with the rat cage around his face in 1984, and pleading for them to do it to Julia. She's just positioning herself to not be caught up in the reckoning, which I think should be coming for all of them and hopefully soon.

She is a major culprit in all of it and needs to be put against the professional killing wall like all of the others of her ilk. She is absolute scum in her professional life. Not saying anything about her as a person, given I play two roles myself when it comes to being a person just getting around, and a person who does what he does for a buck. It's just what I do for a buck doesn't generate hysteria and contributes to people getting sacked and their families wanting to do desperate things.

comrade
27-08-2024, 11:27 PM
Is this the same Caro that as recently as yesterday suggested Schofield's tattoos might be a reason he doesn't get a head coaching job?

bornadog
27-08-2024, 11:35 PM
Daisy is the best recent retiree by the length of Flemington. Explains things well. Jordan Lewis is actually horrid but you can tell he thinks he?s amazing.

Lewis actually told Dillon on AFL360 that Liam Jones should have been suspended for his tackle. I hate the guy, he is so anti Bulldogs.

I enjoy analysis like this:

https://x.com/JeffWhite34/status/1828284193782059331

jeemak
27-08-2024, 11:37 PM
Is this the same Caro that as recently as yesterday suggested Schofield's tattoos might be a reason he doesn't get a head coaching job?

Maybe....if you mean the one who says women shouldn't expect their husbands/ partners to put family in front of footy during a pandemic whilst pregnant.

It's really hard to tell.

Grantysghost
28-08-2024, 08:45 AM
Lewis actually told Dillon on AFL360 that Liam Jones should have been suspended for his tackle. I hate the guy, he is so anti Bulldogs.

I enjoy analysis like this:

https://x.com/JeffWhite34/status/1828284193782059331
I kind of agree with Lewis on this bad. I was very surprised considering similar examples that he didn't get a week. I don't think he should either but it's really hard to work out sometimes.

I think it was related to force / impact which is really a discretionary lever for the MRO

azabob
28-08-2024, 09:00 AM
I kind of agree with Lewis on this bad. I was very surprised considering similar examples that he didn't get a week. I don't think he should either but it's really hard to work out sometimes.

I think it was related to force / impact which is really a discretionary lever for the MRO

Stop being so salty mate because Kossi Pickett three match suspension has been upheld.

Rocket Science
28-08-2024, 09:26 AM
Is this the same Caro that as recently as yesterday suggested Schofield's tattoos might be a reason he doesn't get a head coaching job?

From the same panel of deep thinkers who once wondered out loud with straight faces whether our coach was fit to lead young men because he rocked up to a pre-season with facial hair.

mjp
28-08-2024, 09:56 AM
Is this the same Caro that as recently as yesterday suggested Schofield's tattoos might be a reason he doesn't get a head coaching job?

For someone who was so incensed at the (admittedly disgraceful) behaviour on the old footy show with regards her own appearance, she has had zero conscience about firing shots at Bevo (re- moustache) and now Schofield (re- stickers).

If you aren't happy with criticism coming your way, maybe (just maybe) be a little more respectful of the decisions made by others.

comrade
28-08-2024, 11:40 AM
For someone who was so incensed at the (admittedly disgraceful) behaviour on the old footy show with regards her own appearance, she has had zero conscience about firing shots at Bevo (re- moustache) and now Schofield (re- stickers).

If you aren't happy with criticism coming your way, maybe (just maybe) be a little more respectful of the decisions made by others.

I don't know if she's just blinded by her own self-importance or she knowingly contradicts herself to generate vitriol and the views and engagement that come with. In fact, you could say that for any loud footy media mouthpiece connected to Crocmedia these days. Cornes is the king of it. Has completely shit canned Bevo for years for underperformance, yet defended Hinkley throughout.

mjp
28-08-2024, 01:37 PM
Lewis actually told Dillon on AFL360 that Liam Jones should have been suspended for his tackle. I hate the guy, he is so anti Bulldogs.

I enjoy analysis like this:

https://x.com/JeffWhite34/status/1828284193782059331

Yeah - that's cool and all but not all players can get away with this.

Bont actually leaves the front door of the stop open on the first one and relies on Callahan following him around like a lost-puppy to totally ignore the dangerous space on the Giants side of the contest.

#1 - Don't tag at the stop. You end up getting led around by the oppo and fighting 3v4.

Not knocking White's analysis - he does some good stuff - but if you compare the first clip where Bont leaves the front door open to the second where Libba seals the forward exit (he's on Peatling I think), well...that kind of summarises life when you're 'BONT' - you don't need to worry about the oppo - you have not a care in the world!

Grantysghost
28-08-2024, 04:21 PM
Yeah - that's cool and all but not all players can get away with this.

Bont actually leaves the front door of the stop open on the first one and relies on Callahan following him around like a lost-puppy to totally ignore the dangerous space on the Giants side of the contest.

#1 - Don't tag at the stop. You end up getting led around by the oppo and fighting 3v4.

Not knocking White's analysis - he does some good stuff - but if you compare the first clip where Bont leaves the front door open to the second where Libba seals the forward exit (he's on Peatling I think), well...that kind of summarises life when you're 'BONT' - you don't need to worry about the oppo - you have not a care in the world!

Jeff White proves that analysis is soooo bad in mainstream media that people take his work as the gold standard.

He really just looks at the result of a particular play and reverse engineers it to make it look like he knows what the tactics are. I need to see more than that, I want to see the method over a bigger sample size.

I mean he was kicked in the head pretty hard by Stephen King.

And yes I'm still annoyed with him over that late Wayde Skipper bullshit call.