Always Right Match Committee Round 8 vs GWS

[GVGjr]

Welcome to the Always Right Match Committee Thread. The Match Committee threads has been named after long time WOOF member Always Right who tragically passed away in March 2018.

If you were on the Western Bulldogs match committee, what changes would you make after our Round Seven match against Hawthorn for our Round Eight match against GWS at Manuka Oval on Saturday night.

For those new to these threads, please give a brief explanation for your changes ... this would add a lot of value to the discussion.

[westbulldog]

IN
Gardner
Cleary
Libba

Out
Keath
Duryea
McNeill

reprieve for Weightman

[GVGjr]

I thought Keath was quite solid today.

[JanLorMill]

I thought Keath was quite solid today.
Started poorly and got better

[bornadog]

Who comes out for Libba?

[GVGjr]

Who comes out for Libba?

Has to be McNeil because he missed his chances to score goals.

[azabob]

Has to be McNeil because he missed his chances to score goals.

That has been his biggest flaw his whole career. If he can start taking his chances he will become an important cog.

[Grantysghost]

Has to be McNeil because he missed his chances to score goals.

Scott and his 10 metre snaps weren't much better.

At least he had 5 tackles, Weightman and Jones 2 between them.

Stays for mine.

Out Duryea
In Libba

[JanLorMill]

I’d replace Dureya if we had a like for like. We don’t.

[Jasper]

That has been his biggest flaw his whole career. If he can start taking his chances he will become an important cog.

For sure. He has pace and depth in his kicking plus he cracks in but has to convert his chances more.

[bornadog]

I’d replace Dureya if we had a like for like. We don’t.

What about Cleary? Did well in the VFL today

[GVGjr]

What about Cleary? Did well in the VFL today

He has to be close.

[Scorlibo]

What about Cleary? Did well in the VFL today


He has to be close.

Get him in I say. Others have been given opportunity for far lesser output than what Luke has produced so far this season, and he's got some clear AFL traits.

[The Doctor]

In: Libba, Gards

Out: McNeill, O’Brien

[Grantysghost]

I’d replace Dureya if we had a like for like. We don’t.

Caleb back, Libba in?

[Bumper Bulldogs]

In. Libba
Out. O’Brien

Doc needs do get the job to shut down Green this week. This is all that matters

[Dogs 24/7]

In: Libba, Gards

Out: McNeill, O?Brien

Was O'Brien that bad?

[Grantysghost]

Was O'Brien that bad?

He had a really solid game, no way he gets dropped.

Jones has taken Gardy's spot I think. He may struggle to get back in.

Having said that - could also depend on match ups.

GWS aren't hugely tall.

Hogan is in good form, Himmelberg too. They do have a few small/mid sized. Daniels, Ohalloran.

[JanLorMill]

What about Cleary? Did well in the VFL today
Would you put Cleary on Toby Greene because Dureya has to be an option.

[Grantysghost]

Would you put Cleary on Toby Greene because Dureya has to be an option.

Richards maybe?

[Bulldog Legend]

In: Libba, Gards

Out: McNeill, O?Brien
Neither of those players are being dropped

Libba for Maclean and maybe Cleary for Duryea

[hujsh]

The only downside to O'Briens game is he got beat in the aerial contest once or twice by Mitch Lewis, which if we want someone to compete on those players 1v1 we should replace him with Gardner, and he dropped an uncontested intercept that lead to a goal.

Thought he was better last week though TBH. His inclusion probably lasts until we need 3 genuine talls then it's back to VFL

[hujsh]

Neither of those players are being dropped

Libba for Maclean and maybe Cleary for Duryea

Who actually comes out for Libba? Unless Libba is the sub.

[Dogs 24/7]

The only downside to O'Briens game is he got beat in the aerial contest once or twice by Mitch Lewis, which if we want someone to compete on those players 1v1 we should replace him with Gardner, and he dropped an uncontested intercept that lead to a goal.

Thought he was better last week though TBH. His inclusion probably lasts until we need 3 genuine talls then it's back to VFL

Lewis was impressive and there is no shame in being beaten in a contest or two by him.
I think OBrien can play on the mid sized players and pinch hit on the bigger boys when Keath or Jones need a spell.

[Jasper]

Who gets Toby Greene is a big challenge for us because our smaller players are all attacking players.

[bornadog]

Would you put Cleary on Toby Greene because Dureya has to be an option.


Richards maybe?

Agree Richards. Greene is pretty good in the air and would test Duryea.

[jazzadogs]

Lewis was impressive and there is no shame in being beaten in a contest or two by him.
I think OBrien can play on the mid sized players and pinch hit on the bigger boys when Keath or Jones need a spell.

There was one contest right on the goal line where TOB objectively misjudged the ball and lost body contact with Lewis, but other than that I thought he was fine.

The interesting thing about that contest was Ferg Greene being the one who got in TOBs face about it. For a guy who had 6 touches he had a fair bit to say.

[Grantysghost]

There was one contest right on the goal line where TOB objectively misjudged the ball and lost body contact with Lewis, but other than that I thought he was fine.

The interesting thing about that contest was Ferg Greene being the one who got in TOBs face about it. For a guy who had 6 touches he had a fair bit to say.

That was odd. Must've been some lip, or something historical from Box Hill.

Ferg was pretty much the way I remembered him.

Lewis is a tough match up he's supreme in the air. You need to do the old Brian Lake body nudge the forward under the ball trick.
Can't let him have a free jump at it.

[JanLorMill]

Agree Richards. Greene is pretty good in the air and would test Duryea.
Greene kicked 7 against us last year in a game where Dureya got injured early. He was the starting option.

[JanLorMill]

There was one contest right on the goal line where TOB objectively misjudged the ball and lost body contact with Lewis, but other than that I thought he was fine.

The interesting thing about that contest was Ferg Greene being the one who got in TOBs face about it. For a guy who had 6 touches he had a fair bit to say.
what about dropping the uncontested mark in the last quarter that the hawks scored from?

[bornadog]

Greene kicked 7 against us last year in a game where Dureya got injured early. He was the starting option.

So you think Duryea should play on Greene?

[robb]

Thought we were very flat against hawthorn. Reminded me of the Saints game in parts. Libba is a certainty in. Would think McNeil to sub and McLean to play VFL. After a few weeks on the road hopefully we will get our pressure mojo back for GWS

[JanLorMill]

So you think Duryea should play on Greene?
Best defensive option we have. Richards, JJ and Caleb are more attacking options. Doubt we will play a 5th gamer (Cleary) on their best player.

[bornadog]

Best defensive option we have. Richards, JJ and Caleb are more attacking options. Doubt we will play a 5th gamer (Cleary) on their best player.

But you said you would drop Duryea?

[azabob]

But you said you would drop Duryea?

If we had a like for like. We don’t, so I take that as Duryea stays in.

[JanLorMill]

But you said you would drop Duryea?
No sorry. I wouldn’t

[Bullies]

If we had a like for like. We don’t, so I take that as Duryea stays in. A lot of people under estimate the role Duryea plays down back. He is our leader down back. Just watch off the ball the way he calls back and tells who to go and when. It is no coincedence that a lot of the time he is not playing our backs lose their way. He also plays a key role in picking up a key forward ie: Cameron/Green. Until you have someone who can do his role he stays. It will more than likely be his last year so hopefully Cleary can step up in the coming weeks.

[hujsh]

Dureya was often the only one that was actually able to competently tackle a few times this week when everyone else kept getting shrugged off.

[Happy Days]

I’m watching the game now, haven’t seen the intercept drop yet but no way O’Brien gets dropped. He’s been really good and has been since he came in.

[Happy Days]

Okay just saw the drop, which yes was bad but that goal is completely on Macrae jogging to the fall of the ball and letting Newcombe get a 10m gap on him.

[EasternWest]

Okay just saw the drop, which yes was bad but that goal is completely on Macrae jogging to the fall of the ball and letting Newcombe get a 10m gap on him.

If we dropped players over one howler, it'd be a rotating side.

O'Brien is fine and has been fine and should not be even in the conversation at the moment.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Okay just saw the drop, which yes was bad but that goal is completely on Macrae jogging to the fall of the ball and letting Newcombe get a 10m gap on him.

Yep that's what I called at the time. Didn't realise it was Macrae but it was completely on the mids not manning up and applying pressure at the drop.

[Happy Days]

If we dropped players over one howler, it'd be a rotating side.

O'Brien is fine and has been fine and should not be even in the conversation at the moment.

So we shouldn’t drop Macrae?

[EasternWest]

So we shouldn’t drop Macrae?

To be honest I barely notice Macrae one way or the other these days so I'll leave that to others that watch him more closely.

[bornadog]

A lot of people under estimate the role Duryea plays down back. He is our leader down back. Just watch off the ball the way he calls back and tells who to go and when. It is no coincedence that a lot of the time he is not playing our backs lose their way. He also plays a key role in picking up a key forward ie: Cameron/Green. Until you have someone who can do his role he stays. It will more than likely be his last year so hopefully Cleary can step up in the coming weeks.

Spot on Bullies.

[Mantis]

To be honest I barely notice Macrae one way or the other these days so I'll leave that to others that watch him more closely.

It’s sad state of affairs that our VC and someone who is in year 1 of a 5 year deal has become largely invisible.

[jazzadogs]

It’s sad state of affairs that our VC and someone who is in year 1 of a 5 year deal has become largely invisible.

Gee I thought he was good again on the weekend. He had a really poorly start to the year but is back to his best the last few weeks. 26 touches (=4th on ground), 6 clearances (=4th), 7 tackles (1st), 33 pressure acts (1st). He has noticeably ramped up his pressure and is working harder between contests - there was some really embarrassing footage from the Saints game.

[Grantysghost]

Gee I thought he was good again on the weekend. He had a really poorly start to the year but is back to his best the last few weeks. 26 touches (=4th on ground), 6 clearances (=4th), 7 tackles (1st), 33 pressure acts (1st). He has noticeably ramped up his pressure and is working harder between contests - there was some really embarrassing footage from the Saints game.

He really stepped it up v Freo. Wish I could work out if / how his role has changed this season.

He certainly is spending far more time at half forward.

[chef]

Macrae has been very good since the first couple of weeks imo, one thing i have noticed is hes putting a lot more heat on his tackles too. Apparently Bevo had a bit of a heart to heart with him after the Saints game and he's back in form.

[Ozza]

IN
Gardner
Libba

Out
O'Brien
McNeil moves to sub.

Although I'm sure its futile and O'Brien will stay in.

[Mofra]

IN
Gardner
Libba

Out
O'Brien
McNeil moves to sub.

Although I'm sure its futile and O'Brien will stay in.
O'Brien was ok but Gardner as 2nd KPD and Keath to the interceptor role makes sense

[hujsh]

Objectively speaking has Keath or O'Brien been better in the intercepting role?

[bornadog]

Objectively speaking has Keath or O'Brien been better in the intercepting role?

Keath averaging 4.8 marks (all marks), and TOB 5.7 this season.

TOB is not a KPD

[DISHLICKERS]

Keath averaging 4.8 marks (all marks), and TOB 5.7 this season.

TOB is not a KPD

TOB is getting some continuity after injuries had him stop start.

I think he is building nicely and now is not the time to drop him.

[Rocco Jones]

I think TOB is going well and suits the 3rd defensive tall spot in our side.

- Keath or Gardy competing for a spot this week, fine with either
- Libba in for Scott, Arty or McNeil (whoever misses becomes sub)

[derb]

McNeil's addition to the side adds more zip and movement. Has to stay in for mine.

I don't see it with Scott but if we drop him for Libba it will be more of the same.. midfielders plugging holes.
Tough selection headache for this week.

When can we start playing O'Donnell ?

[bornadog]

I think TOB is going well and suits the 3rd defensive tall spot in our side.

- Keath or Gardy competing for a spot this week, fine with either
- Libba in for Scott, Arty or McNeil (whoever misses becomes sub)

Arty had his best game - I wouldn't be dropping him

[bornadog]

When can we start playing O'Donnell ?

He is building nicely but two games since 2019 - may need some extra time.;)

[GVGjr]

IN
Gardner
Libba

Out
O'Brien
McNeil moves to sub.

Although I'm sure its futile and O'Brien will stay in.

Ozza, do you think TOB has been a bit disappointing or is it more that you think Gards fits our requirements better in the short term?

[Rocco Jones]

Arty had his best game - I wouldn't be dropping him

Look, 'his best game' is very relative but I wouldn't drop him either. I actually liked seeing Arty, Scott and McNeil in the side, more of a focus on roles that help the side rather than picking best 22 individuals and being overloaded with mids or HBFs.

I thought McNeil looked the most ominous of the three but as others have mentioned, he needs to start nailing his chances. I'd actually go with Scott as a sub but see the trio as pretty even in value atm and largely dependent on roles we have in minded for them.

[Rocco Jones]

Objectively speaking has Keath or O'Brien been better in the intercepting role?

For mine it's about TOB's kicking. Think we need it playing 3 tallish KPDs. Jones, Keath and Gardy all not great with the ball. TOB fits whoever we play alongside Jones more.

[lemmon]

For mine it's about TOB's kicking. Think we need it playing 3 tallish KPDs. Jones, Keath and Gardy all not great with the ball. TOB fits whoever we play alongside Jones more.

Agree with this. The interceptor is quite often the distributor too, by nature of the role.

Keath is the worst-decision maker in our side at the moment, I'm not sure I want him getting the footy more than he is. Think Keath's best moments in the last fortnight have been when he's asked to be accountable - I prefer him playing the second lock-down role after Jones and competing with Gardiner for that spot.

I see O'Brien more as Bruce's replacement than anything. Think he's been pretty good over the last few weeks and is showing his best form as a Dog.

[1eyedog]

Gee I thought he was good again on the weekend. He had a really poorly start to the year but is back to his best the last few weeks. 26 touches (=4th on ground), 6 clearances (=4th), 7 tackles (1st), 33 pressure acts (1st). He has noticeably ramped up his pressure and is working harder between contests - there was some really embarrassing footage from the Saints game.

Yeah he's changed how he plays and where he puts his energy to fill a bit of the Dunkley void and I reckon he's going along fine. Pressure acts. Love it. I'd like to say a case in point but that point is moot.

[Ozza]

Ozza, do you think TOB has been a bit disappointing or is it more that you think Gards fits our requirements better in the short term?

Sounds a bit simple, but I want our best players in the side - and I don?t think O?Brien is close to that. And with GWS having 3 x 195cm+ forwards, this is a good week for Gardner to come back in and shut one down.

[Mantis]

Sounds a bit simple, but I want our best players in the side - and I don?t think O?Brien is close to that. And with GWS having 3 x 195cm+ forwards, this is a good week for Gardner to come back in and shut one down.

Hogan, Cadman & Himmelberg? Surely O'Brien can take Cadman.... if Cadman gets selected.

And I would think Himmelberg might go back this week given our height in attack and with Taylor still missing.

[Ozza]

Hogan, Cadman & Himmelberg? Surely O'Brien can take Cadman.... if Cadman gets selected.

And I would think Himmelberg might go back this week given our height in attack and with Taylor still missing.

I'm sure he could, but Gardner is a better footballer and I'd prefer him in the side. We are also 2 weeks off running into Curnow and McKay which I'd like him back for.

I think our best deep defence has Jones and Gardner as the two key/deepest pillars. O'Brien is really competing with Keath moving forward in my view. Keath is looking leaner to me this year, which makes sense as Jones, Bruce and Gardner would have been earmarked to play on the monsters.

[Bulldog4life]

It?s sad state of affairs that our VC and someone who is in year 1 of a 5 year deal has become largely invisible.

Not anyway invisible to me. Then I don't drink anymore.

[Happy Days]

I’d rather Himmelberg play forward than back. He’s a fantastic interceptor, even better ball user and the exact sort of player that carves us up behind the ball.

I’d also rather him playing for us next year instead of GWS if we can get it together.

[Dogs 24/7]

Sounds a bit simple, but I want our best players in the side - and I don?t think O?Brien is close to that. And with GWS having 3 x 195cm+ forwards, this is a good week for Gardner to come back in and shut one down.

OBrien is 193cm, is a 2 or 3cm difference in height really a concern? We cant have perfect match ups everywhere.
Im not sure why we use heights in determining best match ups especially when we arent talking about the games elite players.
Im all for getting Gardner in but he has to earn it doesnt he?

[Dogs 24/7]

I'm sure he could, but Gardner is a better footballer and I'd prefer him in the side. We are also 2 weeks off running into Curnow and McKay which I'd like him back for.

I think our best deep defence has Jones and Gardner as the two key/deepest pillars. O'Brien is really competing with Keath moving forward in my view. Keath is looking leaner to me this year, which makes sense as Jones, Bruce and Gardner would have been earmarked to play on the monsters.

Sorry I didnt see this until I responded to an earlier post of yours. Like the logic.

[Bulldog Joe]

I'm sure he could, but Gardner is a better footballer and I'd prefer him in the side. We are also 2 weeks off running into Curnow and McKay which I'd like him back for.

I think our best deep defence has Jones and Gardner as the two key/deepest pillars. O'Brien is really competing with Keath moving forward in my view. Keath is looking leaner to me this year, which makes sense as Jones, Bruce and Gardner would have been earmarked to play on the monsters.

I want Gardner in this week, particularly with Carlton the following week. I think there is room for Jones, Gardner and Keath.

I am more concerned with Duryea who is clearly on the decline.

[GVGjr]

I want Gardner in this week, particularly with Carlton the following week. I think there is room for Jones, Gardner and Keath.

I am more concerned with Duryea who is clearly on the decline.

This is a good suggestion and has a bit of forward planning to it.
The question for many would be how can we drop a player in good form for someone in questionable form. I get that Gards is more capable of playing on key forwards but it can't be an easy decision.

[bornadog]

I still think only one change this week.

In Libba

Out McNeil - replace Toby as sub.

[GVGjr]

I still think only one change this week.

In Libba

Out McNeil - replace Toby as sub.

Big chance that is the only change we will make.

[Ozza]

I want Gardner in this week, particularly with Carlton the following week. I think there is room for Jones, Gardner and Keath.

I am more concerned with Duryea who is clearly on the decline.

I agree on Doc. He is still important for the team right now - but we need to be preparing for after him with some urgency as he looks like a player that will struggle to compete beyond this year.

[Ozza]

This is a good suggestion and has a bit of forward planning to it.
The question for many would be how can we drop a player in good form for someone in questionable form. I get that Gards is more capable of playing on key forwards but it can't be an easy decision.

Bit of a stretch for me to consider O'Brien in good form.
Gardner was probably best on ground in the VFL on the weekend - and has certainly done his time coming back through the VFL since the last weekend in March.

[Stevo]

Bit of a stretch for me to consider O'Brien in good form.
Gardner was probably best on ground in the VFL on the weekend - and has certainly done his time coming back through the VFL since the last weekend in March.

Bit harsh there Ozza. I want Gardner in the side but TOB has done more than enough to hold his spot.

[bornadog]

Libba new look, ready for Saturday

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvLyIWJakAAXH0S?format=jpg&name=large

[GVGjr]

Missing his mo.

[kruder]

Missing his mo.

Im not sure he is thinking straight ;)

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Libba new look, ready for Saturday

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvLyIWJakAAXH0S?format=jpg&name=large

Still can identify him by the Tattoos

[Bulldog Joe]

Still can identify him by the Tattoos

Libba is identified by being Libba

[D Mitchell]

Still can identify him by the Tattoos

Tattoos ? I looked at the boots, Yes, Bob Murphy. Hang on.....

[Rocco Jones]

With players at level of Gardy, Keath and TOB, I believe it's largely the duo that fits in best with Jones. TOB might be the third 'best' individual player but I think he fits best due to his foot skills and 1:1 defending less of a priority in 3rd tall role. I'd prefer not to play Keath and Gardy alongside Jones as all are a worry with the ball in hand. I have Gardner over Keath atm.

[1eyedog]

Jones > Gardner > TOB.

[Rocco Jones]

Jones > Gardner > TOB.

I'd play those three too. Not about TOB being a better player than Keath. I probably think Keath is a 'better player' but TOB fits being alongside Jones + Gardner better.

[Axe Man]

Bruce could be back in 2 or 3 weeks as well. Could be a (good) headache for the match committee if all 5 KPDs are fit at once.

[Grantysghost]

With players at level of Gardy, Keath and TOB, I believe it's largely the duo that fits in best with Jones. TOB might be the third 'best' individual player but I think he fits best due to his foot skills and 1:1 defending less of a priority in 3rd tall role. I'd prefer not to play Keath and Gardy alongside Jones as all are a worry with the ball in hand. I have Gardner over Keath atm.

Agree - not sure the MC will though. Keath has been solid I guess; is there really that much difference between the two?

I can't see Keath losing his spot any time soon. Which means I can't really see Gardner coming in any time soon.

When we had all available the preferred trio, irrespective of match-ups was Bruce, Jones, Keath.

Personally I would've thought Gardy was more like for like to replace Bruce, so I really don't know why they'd change their position now.

[Axe Man]

Agree - not sure the MC will though. Keath has been solid I guess; is there really that much difference between the two?

I can't see Keath losing his spot any time soon. Which means I can't really see Gardner coming in any time soon.

When we had all available the preferred trio, irrespective of match-ups was Bruce, Jones, Keath.

Personally I would've thought Gardy was more like for like to replace Bruce, so I really don't know why they'd change their position now.

We haven't had all available though. Gardner has taken some time to get back up to speed and now is probably the first time he is ready to return to the senior side. TOB was also injured and obviously Bruce more recently. We still don't know the match committees' preferred 3 and that can be a quickly changeable position in any case.

[Grantysghost]

We haven't had all available though. Gardner has taken some time to get back up to speed and now is probably the first time he is ready to return to the senior side. TOB was also injured and obviously Bruce more recently. We still don't know the match committees' preferred 3 and that can be a quickly changeable position in any case.

You make a fine point sir.

[bornadog]

Bruce could be back in 2 or 3 weeks as well. Could be a (good) headache for the match committee if all 5 KPDs are fit at once.

I still think TOB is a third tall and not a KPD. Ideally he should play on players like Fritsch, ie the medium to tall forwards.

[Rocco Jones]

I still think TOB is a third tall and not a KPD. Ideally he should play on players like Fritsch, ie the medium to tall forwards.

Yeah rather than just height, I'd say not on monsters or guys who are really strong overhead.

[Axe Man]

I still think TOB is a third tall and not a KPD. Ideally he should play on players like Fritsch, ie the medium to tall forwards.

I knew you would say this, I was almost going to qualify it especially for you. :D

Whether you think he is a KPD or not that is the role he is playing at the moment, therefore he is a KPD for the purposes of this discussion. Call him a third tall if you like but he is playing as a member of the big 3 down back so he is a part of the discussion on the makeup of that trio. I don't think we can play 3 big guys plus TOB.

His primary matchup obviously shouldn't be a monster but they often have to swap in play so he will inevitably end up opposed to big opponents at times, like Lewis last week.

[Grantysghost]

With Tim it's not just about height, he's quite an athletic profile so can't expect him to have any chance against the biggest forwards other than as an intercept spoiler.

[GVGjr]

With Tim it's not just about height, he's quite an athletic profile so can't expect him to have any chance against the biggest forwards other than as an intercept spoiler.

There is a tendency to focus too much on height and at 193cm and athletic TOB is capable of playing on a wide range of opponents and that might suit Bevo but as Axe pointed out he is probably best suited to being matched the 3rd tall forward. We have players better suited to be matched on the opposition bigger boys.
I thought he might have been a good match-up on Fergus Greene.

[jazzadogs]

I still think TOB is a third tall and not a KPD. Ideally he should play on players like Fritsch, ie the medium to tall forwards.

I think Fritsch would kick 5-10 goals on him. Tim Membrey is more the TOB match up - medium tall but likes a pack mark. Fritsch is a leading forward who would be too quick for TOB.

[angelopetraglia]

From the Bevo presser today.

-Libba should be OK. (My interpretation. He is a lock.)

-Toby will play a full game wherever he is picked. He is obviously on the edge of the team. I hate the fact he didn't play at all. It is hard to sub a player for a tactical reason, the spotlight is on them. It is a real challenge from people management perspective. (My take. He will play in the VFL.)

[derb]

Hard week for to pick the selections:

Mine would be:

Out: Scott
In: Libba.

Bailey Smith to take Scott's position on the HFF or wing.

In all likelihood Bevo will still persist with Bailey Smith in the middle.

I will be annoyed if McNeil is dropped

[bornadog]

I think Fritsch would kick 5-10 goals on him. Tim Membrey is more the TOB match up - medium tall but likes a pack mark. Fritsch is a leading forward who would be too quick for TOB.

I agree on Fritsch, I was just trying to make a point that TOB is not suited to play on big forwards.

[azabob]

ROUND 8 TEAM

GWS v Western Bulldogs
Saturday 6 May, 7.30pm AEST
Manuka Oval

B: Taylor Duryea, Liam Jones, Ryan Gardner
HB: Bailey Dale, Alex Keath, Ed Richards
C: Oskar Baker, Marcus Bontempelli, Bailey Williams
HF: Bailey Smith, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, Cody Weightman
F: Arthur Jones, Aaron Naughton, Rory Lobb
R: Tim English, Jack Macrae, Adam Treloar
Int: Jason Johannisen, Caleb Daniel, Anthony Scott, Tom Liberatore
Emerg: Rhylee West, Luke Cleary, Lachlan McNeil, Jordon Sweet

IN: Tom Liberatore, Ryan Gardner

OUT: Tim O'Brien (quad), Lachlan McNeil (omitted)

[azabob]

O’Brien just can’t take a trick. Surely if he is to get a new contract it has to be heavily weighted to games played.

[westbulldog]

Duryea lucky, Cleary unlucky imo. Does anyone know how many times Jordon Sweet has been named as an emergency in the past 2 seasons ?

[Stevo]

I knew you would say this, I was almost going to qualify it especially for you. :D

Whether you think he is a KPD or not that is the role he is playing at the moment, therefore he is a KPD for the purposes of this discussion. Call him a third tall if you like but he is playing as a member of the big 3 down back so he is a part of the discussion on the makeup of that trio. I don't think we can play 3 big guys plus TOB.

His primary matchup obviously shouldn't be a monster but they often have to swap in play so he will inevitably end up opposed to big opponents at times, like Lewis last week.

As predictable as Darcy being a ruck man. :) Anyway OBrien is out with an injury and Gards is in which should keep most of us happy. Where is Pharrell Williams when you need him :)

[Stevo]

O’Brien just can’t take a trick. Surely if he is to get a new contract it has to be heavily weighted to games played.

He isnt durable enough or just an unlucky dude.

[Grantysghost]

McNeil might as well look somewhere else.

[jeemak]

Duryea lucky, Cleary unlucky imo. Does anyone know how many times Jordon Sweet has been named as an emergency in the past 2 seasons ?

I don't think there's a set number, though it needs to be just enough to frustrate people in lieu of not being able to see any development at the higher level.

[bornadog]

McNeil might as well look somewhere else.

Hopefully he is sub

[Stevo]

McNeil might as well look somewhere else.

Looks that way. He should be in the side.

[jeemak]

McNeil might as well look somewhere else.

Who else would have him?

We picked him up to play a niche role for us that is presently being played by Jones who hit the scoreboard last week while McNeil didn't.

He's still a chance to play plenty more games in lieu of our weakness in that position generally.

[bornadog]

Looks that way. He should be in the side.

who would come out?

[azabob]

McNeil might as well look somewhere else.

If he kicks those two goals you can?t drop him.

The MC likely see more upside in Jones?

[Mantis]

McNeil might as well look somewhere else.

Who should he be playing in front of?

I liked his pressure last week, but his kicking was well below average. He needs to take his opportunities in front of goal which he rarely does.

[Grantysghost]

Who should he be playing in front of?

I liked his pressure last week, but his kicking was well below average. He needs to take his opportunities in front of goal which he rarely does.

Duryea. Fell over every time.

Weightman has credits, his game last week was lamentable.

Tell me what more McNeil can do?

Ok he missed a couple of TOUGH chances.

What was his pass mark?

[jeemak]

Who should he be playing in front of?

I liked his pressure last week, but his kicking was well below average. He needs to take his opportunities in front of goal which he rarely does.

Yep, that's the challenge for the McNeil's of the world. Live and die by the opportunities you either take or you don't.

[jeemak]

Duryea. Fell over every time.

Weightman has credits, his game last week was lamentable.

Tell me what more McNeil can do?

Ok he missed a couple of TOUGH chances.

What was his pass mark?

Taking his tough chances.

Libba has to come in, we won, someone has to go out.

Duryea isn't comparable as they perform completely different roles.

[azabob]

Duryea. Fell over every time.

Weightman has credits, his game last week was lamentable.

Tell me what more McNeil can do?

Ok he missed a couple of TOUGH chances.

What was his pass mark?

McNeil as a lock down defender?

[Grantysghost]

Taking his tough chances.

Libba has to come in, we won, someone has to go out.

Duryea isn't comparable as they perform completely different roles.

Daniel back, Libba in.

[Grantysghost]

Taking his tough chances.

Libba has to come in, we won, someone has to go out.

Duryea isn't comparable as they perform completely different roles.

I thought creating the chances was good enough.

Bah you can all go and get

A nice meal, or a drink and ponder why you're wrong.

[bornadog]

I think this is one of our strongest team we can field, so no excuses.

[kruder]

Arguably the best side we have atm.

[bornadog]

Arguably the best side we have atm.

Great minds think alike :)

[GVGjr]

I think this is one of our strongest team we can field, so no excuses.

Agreed, no excuses.

[merantau]

No excuses. This is the strongest team we've fielded this year. A big win would be great.

[Mantis]

Duryea. Fell over every time.

Weightman has credits, his game last week was lamentable.

Tell me what more McNeil can do?

Ok he missed a couple of TOUGH chances.

What was his pass mark?

Not sure it?s a tough when you gather the ball on 50 in space and have time to steady and then miss by a relatively large distance. Any 6 footer HF/FP with kicking ability eats those goals for breakfast and McNeil consistently misses them.

His ability to convert any opportunity needs to improve quickly or he?s likely to be delisted come seasons end.

[Grantysghost]

Not sure it?s a tough when you gather the ball on 50 in space and have time to steady and then miss by a relatively large distance. Any 6 footer HF/FP with kicking ability eats those goals for breakfast and McNeil consistently misses them.

His ability to convert any opportunity needs to improve quickly or he?s likely to be delisted come seasons end.

Agree he needs to take his chances, I just think he needs more chances.
Some players seem to be given more than others.

[Danjul]

Agree he needs to take his chances, I just think he needs more chances.
Some players seem to be given more than others.
You have only just noticed this????

[Jasper]

McNeil might as well look somewhere else.

He would be regarded as to a best 22 player if he was able to convert those chances and kick a goal a week. Arthur is keeping him out of the side at the moment.

[Grantysghost]

You have only just noticed this????

Haha touche.

[hujsh]

Agree he needs to take his chances, I just think he needs more chances.
Some players seem to be given more than others.

He creates his own opportunities but too rarely seizes them once the hard work is done. He needs to at minimum show improvement in that area before years end.

[Happy Days]

I like McNeil and think he should be playing but he’s player number 21 at absolute best. He was honestly better as the sub against Freo than he was with a full game against the Hawks, maybe this isn’t the worst move for him.

[Danjul]

He would be regarded as to a best 22 player if he was able to convert those chances and kick a goal a week. Arthur is keeping him out of the side at the moment.
Arthur has been averaging 80% game time and actually has a much lower return in goals per minute played than McNeil. McNeil is kicking goals 7 times faster.

[bornadog]

Arthur has been averaging 80% game time and actually has a much lower return in goals per minute played than McNeil. McNeil is kicking goals 7 times faster.

this is where stats are rubbish

[westbulldog]

According to WB website Arthur Jones is 19 and has played 5 games, McNeill is 21 and has played 31 games. With another 26 games / 2 years under his belt I would predict Arty will be better performed than McNeill.

[jazzadogs]

McNeill might be statistically similar or even slightly ahead, but I think Arty is currently providing the team some intangible benefits with his enthusiasm and attitude which is keeping him in the team. His pressure has been up, he is working hard with lots of repeat sprints and that is his role.

Hopefully more goals are coming, but his joy would be lifting the locker room. Keep him in

[Grantysghost]

this is where stats are rubbish

I would compare his game more to Weightman's.

He was far better.

Weightman is a better player though so I've got no issue with him having a down game. He's got credits in the bank.

My issue is around the yo-yoing of players and expecting them to hit the ground running at the level.

Even the best players take a few weeks to find their feet.

We expect too much at times.


Give him 3 games, if he struggles fair call to cut him.

[bornadog]

I would compare his game more to Weightman's.

He was far better.

Weightman is a better player though so I've got no issue with him having a down game. He's got credits in the bank.

My issue is around the yo-yoing of players and expecting them to hit the ground running at the level.

Even the best players take a few weeks to find their feet.

We expect too much at times.


Give him 3 games, if he struggles fair call to cut him.

Comes back to - who goes out?

[Grantysghost]

Comes back to - who goes out?

I've already answered that. Duryea out Daniel back. Duryea can't hold his feet.

[Mantis]

I've already answered that. Duryea out Daniel back. Duryea can't hold his feet.

Daniel can't defend which is why he's in the midfield.

And we aren't playing all of Jones, Weightman and McNeil.. McNeil needs to force one of them out of the starting 22.

[Axe Man]

Duryea may be earmarked for Greene, or at least one of the options. Richards is the only other I can think of as a reasonable matchup so I would rather have 2 options than 1.

[Danjul]

According to WB website Arthur Jones is 19 and has played 5 games, McNeill is 21 and has played 31 games. With another 26 games / 2 years under his belt I would predict Arty will be better performed than McNeill.
I agree. But there?s no avoiding the fact that Jones is being judged on where he will be in two years and McNeil is being judged on what he was three years ago.

In his first three games Arthur rarely touched the ball, and a number of his possessions were rushed and ineffective. He is still learning and certainly has some star potential.

In the past poor performances were rewarded by a return to the seconds. As we see with Weightman those cruel policies are a thing of the past.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'll have to pay closer attention, but what's Scott's role? Wing / HF?

I would have selected McNeill over Scott as I feel the latter hasn't been doing enough.

[1eyedog]

McNeil might as well look somewhere else.

Why? Who would he replace? Maybe Scott but at least Scott has continuity.

[1eyedog]

He would be regarded as to a best 22 player if he was able to convert those chances and kick a goal a week. Arthur is keeping him out of the side at the moment.

Not with performaces he's not but we are riding a bit of an Arty wave atm.

[1eyedog]

I would compare his game more to Weightman's.

He was far better.

Weightman is a better player though so I've got no issue with him having a down game. He's got credits in the bank.

My issue is around the yo-yoing of players and expecting them to hit the ground running at the level.

Even the best players take a few weeks to find their feet.

We expect too much at times.


Give him 3 games, if he struggles fair call to cut him.

Happens at every club.

[hujsh]

Gee you'd almost think half the board think Weightman should be dropped. He had a quiet game but the effort was there and we know we can rely on him to convert when he gets his opportunities. Small forwards will have quiet weeks but McNeil only has quiet or decent weeks so it shouldn't even be a comparison.

If we drop Dureya it's for a small defender like Cleary. Has to be someone who can defend. Daniel is strong but doesn't have the pace or height to take that role.

The only comparable candidates are Scott or Jones. Jones felt more dangerous and when he gets the ball is more composed than McNeil already. Both apply pressure so I'm happy for Jones to get the nod given he has a higher ceiling.

Scott was quiet and it's hard to tell what his role is right now. Is it a mix of half forward and subbing into the wing when Baker and Williams rest? If so I'd rather Scott have the ball in hand than McNeil.


Like I said earlier it's pretty obvious what McNeil need to improve on to get a permanent best 22 spot and I'm not sure more AFL time is necessarily key to developing it (he's not exactly a VFL superstar forward pocket is he?) He's the exact fringe type that will be in and out of the team depending on form and fitness of other players so it's not worth handwringing over his inclusion or exclusion unless he starts doing something extraordinary at VFL level. Every team has these players.

[Grantysghost]

Gee you'd almost think half the board think Weightman should be dropped. He had a quiet game but the effort was there and we know we can rely on him to convert when he gets his opportunities. Small forwards will have quiet weeks but McNeil only has quiet or decent weeks so it shouldn't even be a comparison.

If we drop Dureya it's for a small defender like Cleary. Has to be someone who can defend. Daniel is strong but doesn't have the pace or height to take that role.

The only comparable candidates are Scott or Jones. Jones felt more dangerous and when he gets the ball is more composed than McNeil already. Both apply pressure so I'm happy for Jones to get the nod given he has a higher ceiling.

Scott was quiet and it's hard to tell what his role is right now. Is it a mix of half forward and subbing into the wing when Baker and Williams rest? If so I'd rather Scott have the ball in hand than McNeil.


Like I said earlier it's pretty obvious what McNeil need to improve on to get a permanent best 22 spot and I'm not sure more AFL time is necessarily key to developing it (he's not exactly a VFL superstar forward pocket is he?) He's the exact fringe type that will be in and out of the team depending on form and fitness of other players so it's not worth handwringing over his inclusion or exclusion unless he starts doing something extraordinary at VFL level. Every team has these players.

I'm handwringing!

[jeemak]

I'm handwringing!

He's being polite.

[bornadog]

I'm handwringing!

One of the issues with McNeil is he wants to dish off the ball as soon as he has it in his hands, and he often will handball to another player and put them under pressure. He needs to compose himself, back himself in and make sure he takes his opportunities.

At the moment, all I can see is, he offers pace.

[Grantysghost]

He's being polite.

Ha - thanks Hjush.

Duryea is slow and can't jump and falls over all the time.
Give that man a game! He can't match up on Greene.

Caleb has an obvious match up in their forward line.

Who's with me! EW? GvG will be... Danj? Trag? New people speak up... It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees (not a Caleb joke).

[Grantysghost]

One of the issues with McNeil is he wants to dish off the ball as soon as he has it in his hands, and he often will handball to another player and put them under pressure. He needs to compose himself, back himself in and make sure he takes his opportunities.

At the moment, all I can see is, he offers pace.

And tackling. Pace and tackling.....

Hmmm pace and tackling pace and tackling... Where could we use that?

Nope. Got nothing ;)

[Grantysghost]

Final word from me, I get McNeil isn't a superstar, he's the last couple picked... However.

He gives us something we don't have, so my opinion is he showed enough last week to build on and I'd love to see him have a run at it.

Look how it worked for West last season


Duryea would need to have a good game this week or I'll be starting a blog.

[angelopetraglia]

If Vanda is fit (I know that is a big if) he will be in front of McNeil too.

[mjp]

And tackling. Pace and tackling.....

Hmmm pace and tackling pace and tackling... Where could we use that?

Nope. Got nothing ;)

He does kick goals.

I like goals.

[Grantysghost]

He does kick goals.

I like goals.

https://media.giphy.com/media/QWjFSsvUPCUncq6ItU/giphy.gif

[Ozza]

I'll have to pay closer attention, but what's Scott's role? Wing / HF?

I would have selected McNeill over Scott as I feel the latter hasn't been doing enough.

Scott is playing a mix of HFF and as the 3rd winger (essentially when Baker or Williams are on the bench). I reckon Scotty is going really well. He isn't going to be judged on possessions alone thats for sure. He is one of our important structural players, who if you watch him live, is one of the players we can rely on to defend the ground. I can only imagine Bevo appreciates Scotty's versatility, and his ability to halve a contest when we are defending.

[Dogs 24/7]

this is where stats are rubbish

It really depends on who is presenting them.

[Dogs 24/7]

One of the issues with McNeil is he wants to dish off the ball as soon as he has it in his hands, and he often will handball to another player and put them under pressure. He needs to compose himself, back himself in and make sure he takes his opportunities.

At the moment, all I can see is, he offers pace.

He is too intent on getting the ball to someone else as quickly as he can.

[derb]

Not confident in this one.

At all.

[GVGjr]

Not confident in this one.

At all.

What are your thoughts and main concerns Derb?

[bornadog]

Scott is playing a mix of HFF and as the 3rd winger (essentially when Baker or Williams are on the bench). I reckon Scotty is going really well. He isn't going to be judged on possessions alone thats for sure. He is one of our important structural players, who if you watch him live, is one of the players we can rely on to defend the ground. I can only imagine Bevo appreciates Scotty's versatility, and his ability to halve a contest when we are defending.

I don't mind Scott and agree, he is an important player. Last year he was ranked 5th in AFL for links between HBF and HFF, until he got concussed.

[Ozza]

Daniel can't defend which is why he's in the midfield.

And we aren't playing all of Jones, Weightman and McNeil.. McNeil needs to force one of them out of the starting 22.

Yep, agree with all of this. I think ideally, Daniel is high half forward, pinch hitting in the midfield.

Also agree that we can't have all of Arty, Cody and McNeil unless injuries are testing us. I actually think Arty has been really good and lively. Even when he hasn't had many possessions, his speed and follow up/repeat efforts are helping others. He has really exceeded my expectations.

[Grantysghost]

Daniel can't defend which is why he's in the midfield.

And we aren't playing all of Jones, Weightman and McNeil.. McNeil needs to force one of them out of the starting 22.

All Australian defender Caleb Daniel ;)

[Go_Dogs]

Yep, agree with all of this. I think ideally, Daniel is high half forward, pinch hitting in the midfield.

Also agree that we can't have all of Arty, Cody and McNeil unless injuries are testing us. I actually think Arty has been really good and lively. Even when he hasn't had many possessions, his speed and follow up/repeat efforts are helping others. He has really exceeded my expectations.

I think we can play Cody, Arty, and McNeily.

Cody plays more a medium forward, marking forward role.

I’m sad McNeil is out as think he’s the type of player we will need to go deep, he’s not there yet but if Arty got a block of games I would’ve said McNeil does too.

[Grantysghost]

I think we can play Cody, Arty, and McNeily.

Cody plays more a medium forward, marking forward role.

I’m sad McNeil is out as think he’s the type of player we will need to go deep, he’s not there yet but if Arty got a block of games I would’ve said McNeil does too.

See, just as I lose all faith there's some intelligent posters on here you pop up.

First time I've heard sense.

Early 2021 says hi...!

[jeemak]

Final word from me

Empty promises.

I'm happy if McNeil is named the sub. He brings energy and creates opportunities with his pressure.

[Grantysghost]

Empty promises.

I'm happy if McNeil is named the sub. He brings energy and creates opportunities with his pressure.

Rofl.

[bornadog]

Cleary in Canberra

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvWTk6faAAAuLe2?format=jpg&name=large

[Jeanette54]

I would have selected McNeill over Scott as I feel the latter hasn't been doing enough.

Plainly speaking, if "doing enough" is the criteria for selection, then Arty would be back to the magoos, but sometimes you just have to invest in the future. And I see Arty, Scott and McNeill as just that, future investment.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

McNeill not playing for Footscray.

[Happy Days]

McNeill not playing for Footscray.

Neither is Cleary. Probably necessary for an interstate game but wonder if a late change is coming.