Always Right Match Committee Round 11 v Suns

[Scraggers]

Welcome to the Always Right Match Committee Thread. The Match Committee threads has been named after long time WOOF member Always Right who tragically passed away in March 2018.

If you were on the Western Bulldogs match committee, what changes would you make after our Round Ten match against Adelaide for our Round Eleven match against Suns at TIO Stadium on Saturday night.

For those new to these threads, please give a brief explanation for your changes ... this would add a lot of value to the discussion

[GVGjr]

Huge game against a GC side that is very competitive.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Clearly JJ is out. Cleary in no change otherwise.

[bulldogtragic]

The only real live question is can see is: JOD vs Bruce vs Keath

[meenies]

Enough of JOD. Buku or Hannan will offer more. Also a Cleary fan for JJ. I wish Gallagher was ready.

[westbulldog]

Enough of JOD. Buku or Hannan will offer more. Also a Cleary fan for JJ. I wish Gallagher was ready.

When has Hannan offered anything ? :)

[azabob]

McNeil, JOD under pressure and sadly JJ injured.

[Hotdog60]

What do we think of Laitham Vandermeer coming in for JJ?

[GVGjr]

What do we think of Laitham Vandermeer coming in for JJ?

Good suggestion. Perhaps.

[azabob]

What do we think of Laitham Vandermeer coming in for JJ?

His disposal would be too erratic and I’m certain he’d give away dumb free kicks.

[bulldogtragic]

What do we think of Laitham Vandermeer coming in for JJ?

What’s his recent form like?

[Hotdog60]

What’s his recent form like?

A bit ordinary in the VFL but I'm looking at pace and he may be better of half back than he is as a forward

[bulldogtragic]

A bit ordinary in the VFL but I'm looking at pace and he may be better of half back than he is as a forward

He’d want to be, he’s not a good forward! :D

I’m no fan of his (disposal and dumb frees and dumber 50’s) but he’s best chance to succeed is of the HBF I think as you rightfully say. But I’d really like him to be knocking the door down at HB to get a game personally. But open to the discussion.

[hujsh]

Cleary should go to HB and Vanders to start getting some form as a HB in the VFL.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

What do we think of Laitham Vandermeer coming in for JJ?

He would need to replace Willians or “The Red Tash” he hasn’t done enough. Cleary this is your time.

[westbulldog]

Cleary deserves his chance. Vandermeer has done nothing to warrant selection at all.

[kruder]

I still can't believe we are persisting with Vandermmer as a forward in the VFL? I've been saying in for a while, a lock down defender or off the list.

Its a good chance to get games into Cleary while our defence is as strong as it is.

[Go_Dogs]

Is Treloar right?

If so he comes in for JJ and either Treloar or Daniel play back.

JOD has had a taste and I’d like to see Buku come in for him.

[Testekill]

Out: JJ, JOD

In: Cleary, Treloar

[HOSE B ROMERO]

Is Treloar right?

If so he comes in for JJ and either Treloar or Daniel play back.

JOD has had a taste and I’d like to see Buku come in for him.

I think Adz has missed 2 so i think the club will be conservative with him and hold him back for 1 more week in Melbourne. Would be great to get Cleary in for JJ. I feel he's earned it over the season and good to blood more youth. Would also like to see Buku in at some stage with his versatility. I like Van Der's pace but he really needs to tidy up a few things before he comes in imo. He could still have a future at the club.

[Danjul]

Cleary should go to HB and Vanders to start getting some form as a HB in the VFL.
Certainly agree with you. If Cleary can?t get a game it?s time for him to start looking elsewhere.

[Mofra]

I still can't believe we are persisting with Vandermmer as a forward in the VFL? I've been saying in for a while, a lock down defender or off the list.

Its a good chance to get games into Cleary while our defence is as strong as it is.
He's played back the past few weeks (at least, the bits I've seen)

[jeemak]

Certainly agree with you. If Cleary can?t get a game it?s time for him to start looking elsewhere.

It's only his second year in the system!

[Danjul]

It's only his second year in the system!
It?s a year since Cleary played his first senior AFL game. In his second (round 10) he had 16 possessions.

Now he is watching JOD have 3 VFL games and then stay in the senior team when rarely touching the ball. 3 kicks in two weeks is not acceptable. He has talent and a bright future but he is not ready. Cleary should now have a tryout.

[EasternWest]

It?s a year since Cleary played his first senior AFL game. In his second (round 10) he had 16 possessions.

Now he is watching JOD have 3 VFL games and then stay in the senior team when rarely touching the ball. 3 kicks in two weeks is not acceptable. He has talent and a bright future but he is not ready. Cleary should now have a tryout.

I think this will happen. JOD has had the obligatory two Bevo games (and looks every bit of it too), but Clearly seems ready.

[macca]

If the team's system and processes can hold to support JOD for another week i would keep him in . We need to invest games into youth or we at risk of becoming a list like stKilda during Lyons first stint

I have writtien off VDM ,with McNeil being ahead of him
Invest the games into McNeil

Scott is a good example if we persist with him , he will become a good player . His a natural footballer that plays to his limitation . His ahead of Roarke now .

[jeemak]

It?s a year since Cleary played his first senior AFL game. In his second (round 10) he had 16 possessions.

Now he is watching JOD have 3 VFL games and then stay in the senior team when rarely touching the ball. 3 kicks in two weeks is not acceptable. He has talent and a bright future but he is not ready. Cleary should now have a tryout.

They're not the same players. One is a tall KPP prospect, the other is a medium sized defender.

He will get his chance at some point if he keeps putting his hand up, however, if he doesn't as soon as he'd like I think he'd be ill advised to leave the club barely as his career has started.

I mean I get you, but saying he should pull up stumps and leave is hyperbolic/ overly dramatic.

[Danjul]

If the team's system and processes can hold to support JOD for another week i would keep him in . We need to invest games into youth or we at risk of becoming a list like stKilda during Lyons first stint

I have writtien of VDM ,with McNeil being ahead of him
Invest the games into McNeil

Scott is a goor example if we persist with him , he will become a good player . His a natural footballer that plays to his limitation . His ahead of Roarke now .

Winning is an amazing thing. It can change reality.

Look at the Carlton game. after the worst first half of kicking for goal that I have ever seen Carlton were in front with a few minutes to go. So the Dogs hadn?t gone very well on the day up to that point. That must mean something. Yes, Libba changed things dramatically and our best 5 minutes of the season gave us the points.

But what will we take from the game? Will it be brilliant selectors got Lobb playing on the wing, opening up the forward line and guaranteeing a win? I have read that. (Our new wing player had 5 kicks- two that will keep him in the team).

Or will it be we played one down and went very close to an unnecessary loss. Not a very popular view. But it is mine.

Our team systems and processes are not good enough to allow taking unnecessary risks.

We are being propelled by some champions while developing a young small forward. He seems to have the talent to fill a role we have lacked for years. He is improving, but he is not the superstar everyone is raving about. He is eye catching, his spectacular leap on Saturday is part of football folklore. But he didn?t hold one mark to my knowledge. I think he got his hands on the ball a few times but only half a dozen were positive contributions to the team. In his 8 games he has shown enough to persevere with, but can we afford to play 2 novices?

We have an easy draw and should go close to a top four finish. In how many ways should we put that at risk. True professionals would say none.

[jeemak]

Funnily it's our full ground system that's winning us games at the moment.

[Happy Days]

Winning is an amazing thing. It can change reality.

Look at the Carlton game. after the worst first half of kicking for goal that I have ever seen Carlton were in front with a few minutes to go. So the Dogs hadn?t gone very well on the day up to that point. That must mean something. Yes, Libba changed things dramatically and our best 5 minutes of the season gave us the points.

But what will we take from the game? Will it be brilliant selectors got Lobb playing on the wing, opening up the forward line and guaranteeing a win? I have read that. (Our new wing player had 5 kicks- two that will keep him in the team).

Or will it be we played one down and went very close to an unnecessary loss. Not a very popular view. But it is mine.

Our team systems and processes are not good enough to allow taking unnecessary risks.

We are being propelled by some champions while developing a young small forward. He seems to have the talent to fill a role we have lacked for years. He is improving, but he is not the superstar everyone is raving about. He is eye catching, his spectacular leap on Saturday is part of football folklore. But he didn?t hold one mark to my knowledge. I think he got his hands on the ball a few times but only half a dozen were positive contributions to the team. In his 8 games he has shown enough to persevere with, but can we afford to play 2 novices?

We have an easy draw and should go close to a top four finish. In how many ways should we put that at risk. True professionals would say none.

I respect the point you’re making but don’t think you can intimate that we’re carrying Arty when he literally won us a game not two weeks ago.

For what it’s worth I’d drop JOD for Khamis.

[1eyedog]

Did anyone hear Treloar say he will play this week? Hearing reports.

[Mofra]

Did anyone hear Treloar say he will play this week? Hearing reports.
A 90% Treloar is still one hell of a player - and he played at HB at times last year so could be eased into senior football in the JJ role this week

[1eyedog]

A 90% Treloar is still one hell of a player - and he played at HB at times last year so could be eased into senior football in the JJ role this week

100% I'm hearing he was close this week but we held him back because it was Ballarat. Completely unsubstantiated , unreliable report but I'm told he will fly to Darwin.

So essentially I have no idea and it's a wait and see.

[Mantis]

A 90% Treloar is still one hell of a player - and he played at HB at times last year so could be eased into senior football in the JJ role this week

He might of played at HB, but I don't believe he was effective.

If we have learnt anything this year it is that Treloar is an inside mid... and that is where he should play. If he isn't fit enough to do so, he stays on the sidelines until he is.

[Rocco Jones]

He might of played at HB, but I don't believe he was effective.

If we have learnt anything this year it is that Treloar is an inside mid... and that is where he should play. If he isn't fit enough to do so, he stays on the sidelines until he is.

I agree his best footy for us (perhaps his whole career) has been as an inside mid. Just a couple of points though:
- we look a lot better organised/structurally than last year, would that help as a running HB?
- we have lost JJ and Baz has killed it in run with roles. Even if Ads is better in the middle, would it suit the team more as a whole to have him at least spend some time at HB?

My counter point though, would playing off HB, with the associated sprinting, be actually more of a risk with his hammies?

[Mantis]

I agree his best footy for us (perhaps his whole career) has been as an inside mid. Just a couple of points though:
- we look a lot better organised/structurally than last year, would that help as a running HB?
- we have lost JJ and Baz has killed it in run with roles. Even if Ads is better in the middle, would it suit the team more as a whole to have him at least spend some time at HB?

My counter point though, would playing off HB, with the associated sprinting, be actually more of a risk with his hammies?

Treloar doesn’t like defending which is sort of important, regardless of the structure in place.

I’d be rolling back Daniel to assist if required, but I’d be swapping out JJ for Cleary and if Treloar is right to go he comes in for O’Donnell.

[Rocco Jones]

Treloar doesn’t like defending which is sort of important, regardless of the structure in place.

I’d be rolling back Daniel to assist if required, but I’d be swapping out JJ for Cleary and if Treloar is right to go he comes in for O’Donnell.

Yep, a few running Has don't like defending but Adz seems to be in the extreme segment. If Treloar goes back to his CBA lot, what do we do with Baz?

[Happy Days]

I’m not saying we should do it, but the most impressed I’ve ever been with LVDM is in his first year as a half back flanker in the VFL. I’d like to see what he looks like playing the role at Footscray for a couple of weeks and if it comes out as an even adequate JJ impression then I’d be willing to try it out. JJ’s been super important and I’d want as close to a like for like replacement as possible.

[1eyedog]

Did anyone hear Treloar say he will play this week? Hearing reports.

Tracked down the source. Adam does mention he's right to play and needs to get through training this week via his podcast.

[lemmon]

I’d be plugging whichever small back at Footscray is next cab off the rank into JJ’s spot – I haven’t seen any of them this year so guessing that’s Cleary or Crozier.

I think we need to plan for JJ to miss a decent chunk of footy and would rather go with someone that we can settle into the defensive group, rather than plug Treloar in who clearly does his best work in the midfield.

If we were shuffling a midfielder back, I’d look at Caleb before Treloar who has trained as a back and has had an AA season as a defender, but I’d still be sticking with what works and just rolling the next defender on our list into that backline.

[Danjul]

I respect the point you?re making but don?t think you can intimate that we?re carrying Arty when he literally won us a game not two weeks ago.

For what it?s worth I?d drop JOD for Khamis.

I agree with you about Khamis. I don?t understand putting JOD forward or back ahead of him. Khamis is an opportunistic forward, played 5 games as a forward and goaled in 4 of them. Best return was only 3 goals but that should give some credibility. Suspect that he was viewed as a failure in the ruck so probably being kept out by Lobb. Thought he was one of our best against St Kilda later in the year when playing on the back line but he was dropped pretty quickly.

I was impressed by Jones last quarter against Carlton and thought he made an excellent contribution but I didn?t see him as the match winner. I thought it was more a strong team performance for ten minutes (which continued in Ballarat). Weightman in the centre straightened up the play towards goal, English lifted in ruck, Scott?s accuracy near goals, JUH was good. It all Seemed to be sparked by Libba kicking a long goal after the forwards struggled for impact all day.

But when you look at Arthur?s games that 10 minutes was out of character and that is why I suggest that he is still developing. He has shown that he is capable of having an impact and worth playing. In Ballarat he had a poor game, only 6 disposals when the ball was stuck in the forward line. But he has shown that he has some talent we need and no one else looks like they are capable.

This is not criticism, he is still a work in progress. He is benefiting from the hype, and good luck to him. Others have had a better first 8 games and not seen the same support. I?m thinking of one so I will use them as a comparison.

Jones: Disposals 14 12 12 9 9 6 5 5 = 72
Other: disposals 19 16 15 14 13 13 11 10 = 111

Jones: goals. 2 1 1 = 4
other: goals. 3. 2. 2. 2 = 9

Jones has contributed less and been inconsistent. But he is getting the opportunity so I look forward to his progress.

His inconsistency means we cannot increase our risk factors by playing JOD.

[mjp]

If we have learnt anything this year it is that Treloar is an inside mid... and that is where he should play.

To be fair, this wasn't new information.

Surely we can bring in another running defender to replace JJ? We aren't that skinny for options on the periphery.

[mjp]

Yep, a few running Has don't like defending but Adz seems to be in the extreme segment. If Treloar goes back to his CBA lot, what do we do with Baz?

We need 5 of them (inside) + help from 2-3 more.

The 5 are: Bont, Libba, Macrae, Treloar and Smith.
The others are: Daniel, Weightman, Scott, Williams...Jones...Dale...

I'm not sure this is that complicated.

[Rocco Jones]

We need 5 of them (inside) + help from 2-3 more.

The 5 are: Bont, Libba, Macrae, Treloar and Smith.
The others are: Daniel, Weightman, Scott, Williams...Jones...Dale...

I'm not sure this is that complicated.

I hear you but in relation to CBAs, 4th and 5th % lots last few games:
45/20
43/9
41/44 (Adz in game injury)
71/52
---------------------------------

Do we go with Baz and Adz perhaps sharing the 3rd/4th inside mid mins slots? I guess about 60% each of game. Then stoppages around ground. Can both spend =~20% TOG fwd/back, which isn't too much. Macrae been good out of the middle.

Anyways, in short I agree it's being over complicated ha.

In: Cleary, Adz
Out: JJ, TOD

McNeil sub yet again if we are okay with the stretch of games there. Not like VFL played last week anyway.

[angelopetraglia]

How does the heat impact selection policy? We are going from the freezing cold of Ballarat to an estimated temperature of 27c at the bounce. The temperature will still be 24c when the game finishes. Fitness in these conditions is going to be a factor. Interesting to see that the ground in Darwin is 8m longer than the MCG and Docklands but is more similar in width to Docklands.

Also, the dew at night normally makes marking more difficult. Do we add more run at the expense of height?

[bornadog]

Surely this week Bevo cannot justify giving JOD another run - he needs VFL game time.

[GVGjr]

Surely this week Bevo cannot justify giving JOD another run - he needs VFL game time.

While I tend to agree if he feels he is best suited to a specific match-up then that's okay but if it's to be the 4th tall in what will be greasy conditions then it's a huge mistake. We've rolled the dice twice and now it's time to make the change.

[Hotdog60]

On JOD who was he matched up on and how did they go?
He may have had instruction to keep his opponent quite and they don't care if he gets a touch.
If his man was getting enough then he had his couple of games and its time to give someone else a go.

[Grantysghost]

Surely this week Bevo cannot justify giving JOD another run - he needs VFL game time.

Why? Everyone gets there knickers in a knot re the 22nd player.
They just need to play a role.
I'd be pumping games into him non stop.

Love Buku however honestly already like SOS more.

[hujsh]

Why? Everyone gets there knickers in a knot re the 22nd player.
They just need to play a role.
I'd be pumping games into him non stop.

Love Buku however honestly already like SOS more.

True. I remember one week someone being flabbergasted McNeil was dropped ahead of other options. Seemed to be mainly Dureya he wanted out which is weird given where they both play.

[Grantysghost]

True. I remember one week someone being flabbergasted McNeil was dropped ahead of other options. Seemed to be mainly Dureya he wanted out which is weird given where they both play.

McNeil played one game and has been sub for 3.

Reckon it's a fair argument.

I'm arguing keep. Cmon hujsh don't do a straw man on me.

[Matjoh]

GC are a danger team hope 5 in a row doesnt give us a big head.
Cleary for JJ, JOD needs to go back to the VFL for a bit, Khamis [versatile] in for him or maybe hannan

[hujsh]

McNeil played one game and has been sub for 3.

Reckon it's a fair argument.

I'm arguing keep. Cmon hujsh don't do a straw man on me.

I think you make a good case for McNeil getting a break from being the sub as too much sub time doesn't help a player develop (I imagine).

Did I do a straw man? I seem to remember when pressed about who McNeil replaces it being Dureya or maybe Jones (Jones certainly was the correct inclusion in hindsight) but I'm happy to be corrected as I may not remember fully.

Anyway just meant to be a quick joke. I don't mind McNeil but wouldn't drop any forwards or mids in the 22 currently for him.

[Grantysghost]

I think you make a good case for McNeil getting a break from being the sub as too much sub time doesn't help a player develop (I imagine).

Did I do a straw man? I seem to remember when pressed about who McNeil replaces it being Dureya or maybe Jones (Jones certainly was the correct inclusion in hindsight) but I'm happy to be corrected as I may not remember fully.

Anyway just meant to be a quick joke. I don't mind McNeil but wouldn't drop any forwards or mids in the 22 currently for him.

I took it in the spirit intended :)

I love the bants.

[azabob]

I think you make a good case for McNeil getting a break from being the sub as too much sub time doesn't help a player develop (I imagine).

Did I do a straw man? I seem to remember when pressed about who McNeil replaces it being Dureya or maybe Jones (Jones certainly was the correct inclusion in hindsight) but I'm happy to be corrected as I may not remember fully.

Anyway just meant to be a quick joke. I don't mind McNeil but wouldn't drop any forwards or mids in the 22 currently for him.

Damn are you now gaslighting GG?

Well known fact that Duryea did something to GG and any opportunity GG has he will drop, delist and sack Duryea.

[Grantysghost]

Damn are you now gaslighting GG?

Well known fact that Duryea did something to GG and any opportunity GG has he will drop, delist and sack Duryea.

He took over JTs roaming Jackson gig.

I praised him this week ;)

God I hate the term gaslighting. Love the film though, I wanted to rescue Ingrid Bergman 30 years ago, 29 years before the term become nouveau cliche.

[Bullies]

JOD while we are winning needs to stay in. The guy is great build and athletic and you can see from his games in the 2's he can play. Why not fast track him in the 1sts. He is also played a role down back when JJ went off. I'm happy to call it that he will be a player and a few at the club think so as well.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

Updated injury list on club website has Adz out for another week fwiw.

[FrediKanoute]

WHat about Baz taking on JJ's role if/when Treloar comes back?

[jeemak]

WHat about Baz taking on JJ's role if/when Treloar comes back?

I mean, it could happen, but I reckon we leave the guy who's nabbed 20/20 coaches votes over the last couple of weeks where he is and go with something a bit more conventional.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Treloar doesn?t like defending which is sort of important, regardless of the structure in place.

I?d be rolling back Daniel to assist if required, but I?d be swapping out JJ for Cleary and if Treloar is right to go he comes in for O?Donnell.
If Treloar is not 100% why play him?
Give him a rest I think.

[1eyedog]

If Treloar is not 100% why play him?
Give him a rest I think.

We wouldn't but he reckons he's right to go.

[Mitcha]

Happy for Treloar to miss the 3 hour flight to Darwin in order to be cherry ripe for the handbaggers the following week. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to knock the pussies off and create a nice little ladder buffer over them heading into the pointy end of the season.

[GVGjr]

Happy for Treloar to miss the 3 hour flight to Darwin in order to be cherry ripe for the handbaggers the following week. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to knock the pussies off and create a nice little ladder buffer over them heading into the pointy end of the season.

Tend to agree. For the sake of one more week we may as well minimise any risks.

[Bulldog Joe]

Happy for Treloar to miss the 3 hour flight to Darwin in order to be cherry ripe for the handbaggers the following week. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to knock the pussies off and create a nice little ladder buffer over them heading into the pointy end of the season.

With the VFL also playing in Darwin we probably take the entire contingent of players that might get up on game day.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Bloody ripper, free to air in Frankston.
I can see for myself.

[1eyedog]

It's gonna be a banga in Franga.

[Sedat]

We wouldn't but he reckons he's right to go.
If he's 100% right (and it sounds like he is), I'm sure he would jump at the chance to escape the cold and wet in Melbourne for a few days of sunshine and warmth in Darwin. Missing the Ballarat game would be more of a lure than missing Darwin.

[angelopetraglia]

From the Bevo presser:

-Bruce will play in the VFL. He will need some time in the VFL. He will put pressure on our key backs. He was important in our wins against Brisbane and Richmond.

-Crozier is one option for JJ

-Vanda is an another option for JJ. He could also play forward. Still room for him to play with Arty and Cody.

-Treloar will train today. Most likely not. But we have not ruled him out yet.

-Bont will train today and he should be fine to go

-Caleb is an option to play at HB, but we prefer him in the middle. There is a chance he plays HB but it is unlikely.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

No mention of Cleary?

[hujsh]

What's the issue with Cleary? Looks good at VFL level, got a game out of nowhere and hasn't been seen since. Do we just not want to snub Crozier if he's available? Is there something we're not seeing that's wrong with his game or what?

[jeemak]

What's the issue with Cleary? Looks good at VFL level, got a game out of nowhere and hasn't been seen since. Do we just not want to snub Crozier if he's available? Is there something we're not seeing that's wrong with his game or what?

It might be as simple as having a belief that Crozier will hold his line in a structure at the level better and be less likely to expose his team mates. It could be entirely subjective too.

[angelopetraglia]

No mention of Cleary?

No. He didn't mention him. But to be fair he was asked specifically about the others.

[angelopetraglia]

What's the issue with Cleary? Looks good at VFL level, got a game out of nowhere and hasn't been seen since. Do we just not want to snub Crozier if he's available? Is there something we're not seeing that's wrong with his game or what?

Hw was asked specifically about the others by the journalists so responded. No one mentioned Cleary.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Wouldn't be surprised to see us bring Vandermeer in and move Scott to HB.

[azabob]

Wouldn't be surprised to see us bring Vandermeer in and move Scott to HB.

What I took from the presser is if Vandermeer plays it is on the HB flank.

Half me wants this to happen and watch jeemaks head explode. Naughton, Libba and VDM all doing silly little things... it Darwin's humidity of all places.

In fact, jee, want to watch the game at the pub?

[Mofra]

It's Bevo. I'm half expecting Josh Bruce to get named

[hujsh]

Wouldn't be surprised to see us bring Vandermeer in and move Scott to HB.

That would be bad IMO. Scott has kicked more goals in the last 3 weeks than Vanders has in the last 3 years (don't fact check me on that it sounds good so I said it!)

[Hotdog60]

That would be bad IMO. Scott has kicked more goals in the last 3 weeks than Vanders has in the last 3 years (don't fact check me on that it sounds good so I said it!)

I'll hit you up with facts not for the last 3 weeks but for the last 3 years LVM 19 goals. AS 25 goals. :)

[hujsh]

I'll hit you up with facts not for the last 3 weeks but for the last 3 years LVM 19 goals. AS 25 goals. :)

Damn You!

Looking at things properly Scott kicked 6 goals in the last 3 weeks and Vanders kicked 4 in 2022 and 6 in 21. So while an exaggeration I feel the spirit of my statement holds true.

[Rocco Jones]

Does Cleary for JJ deprive us for pace too much? I think he is the next best but does someone else fit the side better?

I'd go
In: Cleary, VDM/McNeil (other one as sub)
Out: JJ, JOD

[Hotdog60]

Damn You!

Looking at things properly Scott kicked 6 goals in the last 3 weeks and Vanders kicked 4 in 2022 and 6 in 21. So while an exaggeration I feel the spirit of my statement holds true.

I wouldn't be playing LVM forward of the ball again if he can't make it across the HB then we should look to use his list spot for someone else.

[bornadog]

Does Cleary for JJ deprive us for pace too much? I think he is the next best but does someone else fit the side better?

I'd go
In: Cleary, VDM/McNeil (other one as sub)
Out: JJ, JOD

I think Cleary is competing for a spot with the likes of Williams, Dale, and Richards and not a JJ,Daniel type.

[Rocco Jones]

I think Cleary is competing for a spot with the likes of Williams, Dale, and Richards and not a JJ,Daniel type.

I meant Cleary in can we then replace JJ down the chain? And can we be too fixated on finding a similar type when they really aren’t up to?

I don’t think we will see Daniel based at HBF. A bit of an easy target for the opposition. I’ve really liked his flexibility. I think good coaches/structures maximise their players strengths and hide their weaknesses. Feel we are doing that with Daniel lately.

[hujsh]

I think Cleary is competing for a spot with the likes of Williams, Dale, and Richards and not a JJ,Daniel type.

I don't follow this at all. In what way are JJ and Daniel similar that Dale and Richards are not (nevermind Williams being on the wing)?

[azabob]

I meant Cleary in can we then replace JJ down the chain? And can we be too fixated on finding a similar type when they really aren’t up to?

I don’t think we will see Daniel based at HBF. A bit of an easy target for the opposition. I’ve really liked his flexibility. I think good coaches/structures maximise their players strengths and hide their weaknesses. Feel we are doing that with Daniel lately.

Funnily this whole sentence is JJ in a nutshell when he first was moved from the HB line.

I agree Clearly should be the natural JJ replacement

[westbulldog]

Looking at the VFL stats VDM has done nothing to warrant selection - 10 possessions in each of his last 2 VFL games whilst Cleary has had 20 and 24. Cleary or Crozier before VDM imo.

[jeemak]

Funnily this whole sentence is JJ in a nutshell when he first was moved from the HB line.

I agree Clearly should be the natural JJ replacement

I don't think JJ was being hidden as much as we needed someone with some zip up front.

[jeemak]

Looking at the VFL stats VDM has done nothing to warrant selection - 10 possessions in each of his last 2 VFL games whilst Cleary has had 20 and 24. Cleary or Crozier before VDM imo.

The one thing that VDM has that is transferrable from the twos to the ones versus the others is pace. Possession are great but whether they translate or otherwise is a different story.

[robb]

Crozier and Cleary for JJ and McNeil. Expect crozier to be the sub

[macca]

The one thing that VDM has that is transferrable from the twos to the ones versus the others is pace. Possession are great but whether they translate or otherwise is a different story.

What is the of point of picking VDM if he cannot find the ball, fumbles and does mot produce enough goals ?

Would like to see the stats on pressure acts, goal assists and tackles

[Happy Days]

I’m just gonna say it.

VDM is a good player that’s been played out of position for his entire time in the senior side. Don’t be afraid to get hurt again.

[jeemak]

What is the of point of picking VDM if he cannot find the ball, fumbles and does mot produce enough goals ?

Would like to see the stats on pressure acts, goal assists and tackles

You've been around longer than I have, so I don't doubt you've seen me lose my shit when it comes to VDM and what he does anywhere near the footy much of the time.

But the reason you might pick him is because he closes the space down really well when we don't have it, and spreads it really well when we do.

The latter creates space for our inside/ outside game, the former in theory puts pressure on the opposition carry game.

Bevo's played him for the most part when available, and when Bevo does that it's usually for specific reasons like he did with Ed Richards, Bailey Dale and Bailey Williams. VDM doesn't bring the talent profile those guys do (which in each case Bevo is on record as saying got them into the team irrespective of position, early on), but he brings the speed, which is something we need to keep bringing in.

[westbulldog]

The one thing that VDM has that is transferrable from the twos to the ones versus the others is pace. Possession are great but whether they translate or otherwise is a different story.

Yes he has pace but he simply doesn't get the ball, bring in Usain Bolt then :)

[westbulldog]

fwiw I am all in for VDM to be in the GF day sprint :)

[azabob]

Crozier and Cleary for JJ and McNeil. Expect crozier to be the sub

Gut feel or a little birdy told you?

[D Mitchell]

I’m just gonna say it.

VDM is a good player that’s been played out of position for his entire time in the senior side. Don’t be afraid to get hurt again.
What position or role do you consider he should play ?

[mjp]

What position or role do you consider he should play ?

I'm going to answer for HD.

Half back. He slots straight into JJ's spot.

[lemmon]

Pretty incredible that we're having a hard time naming a replacement for a half-back flanker that started the year in a forward pocket.

It's testament to the form of JJ and the coaching team's decision to make the move.

[Happy Days]

What position or role do you consider he should play ?

HBF. His early 2019 form there was really impressive in the VFL before he got hurt, and he’s played as a pressure forward pocket ever since out of need. He wouldn’t be the first player to have his kicking drastically improve by having much more of the field in front of him.

[1eyedog]

The one thing that VDM has that is transferrable from the twos to the ones versus the others is pace. Possession are great but whether they translate or otherwise is a different story.

I know dudes in the VFL who can also play a bit that are faster than VDM.

I'm cool with VDM off a back flank but no dicky 15 metre kicks and no switching he's a straight line player and needs to take territory.

How many VFL games has he played since coming back? Is he even fit?

[macca]

You've been around longer than I have, so I don't doubt you've seen me lose my shit when it comes to VDM and what he does anywhere near the footy much of the time.

But the reason you might pick him is because he closes the space down really well when we don't have it, and spreads it really well when we do.

The latter creates space for our inside/ outside game, the former in theory puts pressure on the opposition carry game.

Bevo's played him for the most part when available, and when Bevo does that it's usually for specific reasons like he did with Ed Richards, Bailey Dale and Bailey Williams. VDM doesn't bring the talent profile those guys do (which in each case Bevo is on record as saying got them into the team irrespective of position, early on), but he brings the speed, which is something we need to keep bringing in.

@Jeemak briliant observations
These are the movents that arent seen on 1 screen tv nor measured in disposals stats
It be interesting to see where VDM fits to max his potential , as he clearly has afl traits that the coaches need for tbeir game plan , or else he would not be on the list

Its strange now we have a shortage of HB flankers to replace Jj when we had a pool of them when roarke, crozier were in form or not injured

[mjp]

I know dudes in the VFL who can also play a bit that are faster than VDM.


...for example??

[1eyedog]

...for example??

Stanley has zip is tough and kicks the ball well. 188 great size can defend and is versatile. Almost the finished product. Pity Hawthorn also has a mid season rookie draft pick and will probably nab him. Worth a punt for sure.

I like Hansen Jnr as well and would definitely look at him but he's a project and has played as a crumber. Very zippy.

Like James Tresize highlights and reviews has really nice pace, great work ethic and good size. The latter players are projects like I said but we're talking about available fast dudes who can play a bit.

VDM is in no man's land and there he will remain.

[Pedro Sanchez]

JOD while we are winning needs to stay in. The guy is great build and athletic and you can see from his games in the 2's he can play. Why not fast track him in the 1sts. He is also played a role down back when JJ went off. I'm happy to call it that he will be a player and a few at the club think so as well.

Like your thinking. You can tell purely by his intensity in packs - both on the ground or flying for a mark - that he has something. Likely never to be a huge possie getter but gee once he gets some form up and confidence, he'll be a great team player.

[azabob]

ROUND 11 TEAM

Gold Coast Suns v Western Bulldogs
Saturday 27 May, 7.25pm AEST (6.55pm ACST)
TIO Stadium (Larrakia)

B: Taylor Duryea, Liam Jones, Tim O’Brien
HB: Bailey Dale, Ryan Gardner, Ed Richards
C: Anthony Scott, Marcus Bontempelli, Bailey Williams
HF: Jack Macrae, Aaron Naughton, Caleb Daniel
F: Cody Weightman, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, Rory Lobb
R: Tim English, Bailey Smith, Tom Liberatore
Int: James O’Donnell, Arthur Jones, Oskar Baker, Lachie McNeil
Emerg: Mitch Hannan, Alex Keath, Jordon Sweet, Luke Cleary

[azabob]

McNeil replaces JJ

[GVGjr]

We are clearly smitten with O'Donnell, lets hope it's not deep smit :)

[D Mitchell]

We are clearly smitten with O'Donnell, lets hope it's not deep smit :)

3rd game, hasn't made a mess of it. That usually qualifies for at lest a 4th. I hope so, I'm yet to see the lad play.

[EasternWest]

We are clearly smitten with O'Donnell, lets hope it's not deep smit :)

Champagne.

[GVGjr]

3rd game, hasn't made a mess of it. That usually qualifies for at lest a 4th. I hope so, I'm yet to see the lad play.

I watched him closely at training on Wednesday, he trains like professional and I see why we think we've got a steal.
I'm not sure he is learning more in the seniors with limited possessions than he would with Footscray getting a lot more of it though but I remain confident we have found a gem.

[bornadog]

Champagne.
I am heading there now

[EasternWest]

I am heading there now

Jealous

[lemmon]

My initial inkling is JOD starts back and McNeil takes his spot with the forwards.

There's a bit of size in the Gold Coast forward half with King, Jeffrey, Casboult, Lukosius and Holman, so on paper the extra height makes more sense to me this week.

[azabob]

We are clearly smitten with O'Donnell, lets hope it's not deep smit :)

Appears Chris Scott is that loop also. I think I read their Irish debutant this weekend has only played AFL this year.

[Mofra]

My initial inkling is JOD starts back and McNeil takes his spot with the forwards.

There's a bit of size in the Gold Coast forward half with King, Jeffrey, Casboult, Lukosius and Holman, so on paper the extra height makes more sense to me this week.
I remain unconvinced.
But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

[Mofra]

Appears Chris Scott is that loop also. I think I read their Irish debutant this weekend has only played AFL this year.
He's not your typical sportsman by the sound of it. He's basically the Harley Reid of Ireland.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Go JOD and Dogs!
Show em how to do it.
Why do I think of Andrew Purser when I think of JOD?
Dark haired tall athletic and a bonus recruit to a good team.

[EasternWest]

I remain unconvinced.
But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

This should be the catchphrase of this entire board.

[1eyedog]

This should be the catchphrase of this entire board.

Hey cut it out I pay my membership dues I can say what I want (within reason).

[azabob]

Hey cut it out I pay my membership dues I can say what I want (within reason).

EW loves a union card carrying member.

[EasternWest]

Hey cut it out I pay my membership dues I can say what I want (within reason).

Of course you can! We all can. Hell, I'd say you can say whatever you want WITHOUT reason and I'll still allow it (and sometimes the raving lunacy is entertaining, right GG?), but we should still sign off everything with what Mofra said.


EW loves a union card carrying member.

My comrades.

[1eyedog]

EW loves a union card carrying member.

He's a true Bulldog who bleeds red, white and blue.


Of course you can! We all can. Hell, I'd say you can say whatever you want WITHOUT reason and I'll still allow it (and sometimes the raving lunacy is entertaining, right GG?), but we should still sign off everything with what Mofra said.



My comrades.

That is a small price to pay for some good ole' working class advice from the outer! I'm just gonna sig it so I don't have to keeping writing it all the time.

[Grantysghost]

Hey cut it out I pay my membership dues I can say what I want (within reason).

You have to pay to be on Woof?

Is this to pay for GVG's tent at skinner?

[Grantysghost]

Of course you can! We all can. Hell, I'd say you can say whatever you want WITHOUT reason and I'll still allow it (and sometimes the raving lunacy is entertaining, right GG?), but we should still sign off everything with what Mofra said.


My comrades.


Lunacy - we talking full moon stuff?

I'm a union member. They do good stuff for people who need them. Happy to support.

[1eyedog]

You have to pay to be on Woof?

Is this to pay for GVG's tent at skinner?

Look someone has to do the heavy lifting to ensure this site keeps functioning effectively.

[ratsmac]

I remain unconvinced.
But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

You're a premiership internet poster!

[kruder]

llll

[Bulldog4life]

llll

Best post yet.

[whythelongface]

Assume we are taking a conservative approach with Treloar. Thought he was ready to play this week. Hopefully back next week..