Do something with Naughton.

[bulldogtragic]

Back to defence. He?s great at spoiling teammates, why not opponents.

Trade.

Something else. He can?t kick easy goals regularly.

We are ain?t getting $850,000 value. I don?t know the answer, but him continuing this isn?t it.

[jeemak]

Would we be worse off if we put Naughton back, removed Gardner, and played Bruce forward?

Probably something we could have considered at the start of the year, I guess.

There's just something about the way he plays that is so chaotic and bombastic that it would be hard to try and settle a structure with and play with any level of precision with (in a three tall set up, which is what we're seemingly wedded to).

We can't put Jamarra back, Lobb should be anchored to the front half of the ground. Maybe those two just contribute more with a player like Bruce who puts in the effort but knows how to keep his own space.

It'd be a big ask of Bruce, but it could be worth a try over the coming weeks as he can actually convert.

[azabob]

Following on from that thought Jee, Lobb definitely knows how to keep his own space and I would think Jamarra would also have played forward all his life.

How would Jamarra go with the getting the number one defender?

[jeemak]

Following on from that thought Jee, Lobb definitely knows how to keep his own space and I would think Jamarra would also have played forward all his life.

How would Jamarra go with the getting the number one defender?

He'd struggle with the number one defender, mostly, but can get up the ground a bit.

I think Lobb and Bruce would benefit from that however, firstly because they're on the same defenders they're taking now, and secondly, Jamarra wouldn't be bringing his defender onto them as much as Naughton does currently.

So that gives the best defender the opposition has something to think about. Go the ball or go with Marra? At the moment the best defender just has to follow Naughton to crowd the contest.

[hujsh]

Would we be worse off if we put Naughton back, removed Gardner, and played Bruce forward?

Probably something we could have considered at the start of the year, I guess.

There's just something about the way he plays that is so chaotic and bombastic that it would be hard to try and settle a structure with and play with any level of precision with (in a three tall set up, which is what we're seemingly wedded to).

We can't put Jamarra back, Lobb should be anchored to the front half of the ground. Maybe those two just contribute more with a player like Bruce who puts in the effort but knows how to keep his own space.

It'd be a big ask of Bruce, but it could be worth a try over the coming weeks as he can actually convert.

A very wise man created a poll to ask a very similar question some time earlier this year. They say he still wanders the boards on the night of the full moon to this day

[jeemak]

A very wise man created a poll to ask a very similar question some time earlier this year. They say he still wanders the boards on the night of the full moon to this day

I don't remember starting a poll. Ever.

[bulldogtragic]

Controversial view; Trade Naughton.

He’s not the gun forward. He’s unknown as a gun back. He’s on $850,000 and clearly wants more. He flies for marks and is a marketing dream. Maybe he’s worth more on the trade table than as a player.

Paying over $1M to not be an outright gun in a position doesn’t make a lot of sense. With Bruce, Lobb, Marra, Darcy & Croft we have cover for 1-1.5 goals a game. Huge draft picks and a million dollars deployed elsewhere wouldn’t be the worst thing.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Controversial view; Trade Naughton.

He’s not the gun forward. He’s unknown as a gun back. He’s on $850,000 and clearly wants more. He flies for marks and is a marketing dream. Maybe he’s worth more on the trade table than as a player.

Paying over $1M to not be an outright gun in a position doesn’t make a lot of sense. With Bruce, Lobb, Marra, Darcy & Croft we have cover for 1-1.5 goals a game. Huge draft picks and a million dollars deployed elsewhere wouldn’t be the worst thing.

I would Agree with trading him, the way he plays it's only time before he does a knee, this will take away any advantage that he may have right now. Sell hime when his value is highest, he is a gun but not worth any further cash and we still have plenty of upside with the other talls.

[Grantysghost]

We are never going to trade Naughton.

He's in a form slump presently however he will be BACK to his best soon ;)

I'd play him in the Tom Stewart role.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Controversial view; Trade Naughton.

He?s not the gun forward. He?s unknown as a gun back. He?s on $850,000 and clearly wants more. He flies for marks and is a marketing dream. Maybe he?s worth more on the trade table than as a player.

Paying over $1M to not be an outright gun in a position doesn?t make a lot of sense. With Bruce, Lobb, Marra, Darcy & Croft we have cover for 1-1.5 goals a game. Huge draft picks and a million dollars deployed elsewhere wouldn?t be the worst thing.

It wouldn't happen unless he requested it, and it would be diabolical for our culture (but there's arguments to be made we should blow this list up anyway)....

.... But I don't disagree. We like to think he's a gun forward. He's not. How many games has he actually won by himself like other gun forwards (Hawkins, Cameron, Curnow, McKay, Walker, Lynch etc).

I love watching him play and he at least makes footy half interesting, but he's not as good as we pretend he is / would like him to be. Poor forward craft and poor conversion will forever limit him.

[bulldogtragic]

It wouldn't happen unless he requested it, and it would be diabolical for our culture (but there's arguments to be made we should blow this list up anyway)....

.... But I don't disagree. We like to think he's a gun forward. He's not. How many games has he actually won by himself like other gun forwards (Hawkins, Cameron, Curnow, McKay, Walker, Lynch etc).

I love watching him play and he at least makes footy half interesting, but he's not as good as we pretend he is / would like him to be. Poor forward craft and poor conversion will forever limit him.

So pay him $1.1M a season to continually topple Marra & Lobb and Darcy for a 1.2 a game? Not ideal either.

Just because you can dunk, doesn’t mean you a serious basketballer. That’s how I feel about him. His hype is bigger than his output. And if he wants 10% of our salary cap a year, maybe he’s worth more in top 10 draft picks and money elsewhere.

Even if we move him back, we need to see he’s a $1.1M KPD.

Anyway, I’m open to offers. We are not getting return on investment now and the ratio will get worse. He’s under contract and if can extract a huge draft haul and he gets his $1.1M+, then let’s keep an open mind. Feels like a win/win.

[DOG GOD]

At least if he plays back, he’s not costing us with easy misses. I’ve been a big advocate of moving him back. Nothing has changed my mind.
Playing fwd he looks best running at the ball, when you see him half fwd/wing areas. When he’s at FF, if he’s not taking the pack mark, he’s not doing anything.

[hujsh]

At least if he plays back, he’s not costing us with easy misses. I’ve been a big advocate of moving him back. Nothing has changed my mind.
Playing fwd he looks best running at the ball, when you see him half fwd/wing areas. When he’s at FF, if he’s not taking the pack mark, he’s not doing anything.

How many is he giving up by kicking it to the opposition?

[bulldogtragic]

How many is he giving up by kicking it to the opposition?

Here in lies the issue…

If he can’t kick straight for goal, which it very much seems
If he turns it over in defence, yet to be confirmed and can’t do a Chris Grant and go to CHB

Why are we going to commit about 10% of our salary cap to such a player? Honest question.

[Grantysghost]

How many is he giving up by kicking it to the opposition?

Long down the line or someone runs passed for the hands xD

[JanLorMill]

Long down the line or someone runs passed for the hands xD
Poor kicks from defence. We have a few of those already

[GVGjr]

Controversial view; Trade Naughton.

He?s not the gun forward. He?s unknown as a gun back. He?s on $850,000 and clearly wants more. He flies for marks and is a marketing dream. Maybe he?s worth more on the trade table than as a player.

Paying over $1M to not be an outright gun in a position doesn?t make a lot of sense. With Bruce, Lobb, Marra, Darcy & Croft we have cover for 1-1.5 goals a game. Huge draft picks and a million dollars deployed elsewhere wouldn?t be the worst thing.

Well, the talk up at Darwin was about Naughton being traded for West Coasts #1 pick this year.

I can't see any valid reason why this was being speculated on but given Bevo's love for Naughton I can't see this happening.
I know the aim of this thread was to get Naughton moved to the back line but it's not going to happen given in the 2 years prior he's kicked around 50 goals per season.

[bulldogtragic]

Well, the talk up at Darwin was about Naughton being traded for West Coasts #1 pick this year.

I can't see any valid reason why this was being speculated on but given Bevo's love for Naughton I can't see this happening.
I know the aim of this thread was to get Naughton moved to the back line but it's not going to happen given in the 2 years prior he's kicked around 50 goals per season.

I’d happily take pick 1 and a try to grab a player too. Move the cash into other players. Get picks 1, 6 (being picks 12 & 17 to GCS on a points trade), Croft & Lohmann (only age 20) and some later picks. On top of the kids picked up this year and Darcy & Marra, I’m thinking that’s a good nucleus of a rebuild.

[DOG GOD]

How many is he giving up by kicking it to the opposition?
True

[bulldogtragic]

Forced move, but credit to Bevo.

Naughton looked handy down back.

Lobb and English got very dangerous and Cody had room to wreck havoc. Opened room for other like Bont to find room too.

Overall, it was a great move. Let’s see what Bevo does seeing a functioning forward line and a big KPD bit injured or very old, or bad. And winning.

[hujsh]

The question is if he's back do we bring in another tall forward or stick with Jamarra and Lobb?

[bulldogtragic]

The question is if he's back do we bring in another tall forward or stick with Jamarra and Lobb?

Only if they’re natural forwards. I could live with Bruce as someone with the smarts not to clog up space and cover for KPD injury.

[hujsh]

Only if they’re natural forwards. I could live with Bruce as someone with the smarts not to clog up space and cover for KPD injury.

So not Busslinger?

[bulldogtragic]

So not Busslinger?

Probably not, not JOD either. Someone with the smarts to keep the space open and not spoil teammates. Maybe Buku at a push. But Bruce probably.

[jazzadogs]

Naughton was serviceable as a KPD - no clear wins, but nullified a lot of contests. One really bad turnover. Given he was thrown in unexpectedly and with no clear opponent (Zurhaar not an ideal matchup), I was happy.

The key for me is how well the forward line functioned. Our first forward entry to a Naughton-less forward line was JUH leading up to the wing, turning and hitting up Lobb leading out from the square. Yes please.

Cody had room to move in, Hannan (who was unsighted in the first half) created some opportunities, Bont kicked 3...

I've been intrigued by the prospect of moving him back, mostly because I thought he'd be an elite defender or forward - but on today, it suggested that Naughton makes his forward line teammates worse and would still be better than Gardner/Bruce/Keath/TOB in defence as he can at least nullify a contest.

I'm all in, make it permanent.

[westbulldog]

With Jones and O'Brien out Naughton goes back imo. Bruce is cooked forward or back.

[bulldogtragic]

Naughton was serviceable as a KPD - no clear wins, but nullified a lot of contests. One really bad turnover. Given he was thrown in unexpectedly and with no clear opponent (Zurhaar not an ideal matchup), I was happy.

The key for me is how well the forward line functioned. Our first forward entry to a Naughton-less forward line was JUH leading up to the wing, turning and hitting up Lobb leading out from the square. Yes please.

Cody had room to move in, Hannan (who was unsighted in the first half) created some opportunities, Bont kicked 3...

I've been intrigued by the prospect of moving him back, mostly because I thought he'd be an elite defender or forward - but on today, it suggested that Naughton makes his forward line teammates worse and would still be better than Gardner/Bruce/Keath/TOB in defence as he can at least nullify a contest.

I'm all in, make it permanent.

Ditto exactly.

[bornadog]

26 goals and heading for another 50. He stays Forward

[bulldogtragic]

26 goals and heading for another 50. He stays Forward

While we get smashed in defence, he spoils his team mates and clogs the forward 50. That was the most dangerous the forward 50 looked tonight. Not something to be dismissed on Naughty alleging kicking 3 a game every game for the rest of the year.

[kruder]

26 goals and heading for another 50. He stays Forward


BAD with Jones out we just go back to the 2022 set up, it doesn't work we have proven that. Naughty should stay in defence until Jones comes back.

[bornadog]

While we get smashed in defence, he spoils his team mates and clogs the forward 50. That was the most dangerous the forward 50 looked tonight. Not something to be dismissed on Naughty alleging kicking 3 a game every game for the rest of the year.

I think he had 2 kicks in defence and one spoil. I don't have the actual stats, just memory.

[jazzadogs]

26 goals and heading for another 50. He stays Forward

Not arguing that he's a very good individual forward. But what I saw today made me think he makes our other good forwards worse by running to the same spots and competing for the same marks. He is not a smart forward and kicks his goals through pure talent - not a bad thing in itself, but is it the best thing for the club?

In the first half, with Naughton forward, we had 36 inside 50s for 5.8.
In the second half, with Naughton back, we had 36 inside 50s for 10.7.

The injuries to our KPD have given us an opportunity to experiment. I don't think he is THAT good that it's not worth trying for a few weeks.

[bulldogtragic]

I think he had 2 kicks in defence and one spoil. I don't have the actual stats, just memory.

While the forwardline looked the most dangerous all year. Surely it’s about what’s best for the overall team and the result?

[bornadog]

Not arguing that he's a very good individual forward. But what I saw today made me think he makes our other good forwards worse by running to the same spots and competing for the same marks. He is not a smart forward and kicks his goals through pure talent - not a bad thing in itself, but is it the best thing for the club?

In the first half, with Naughton forward, we had 36 inside 50s for 5.8.
In the second half, with Naughton back, we had 36 inside 50s for 10.7.

The injuries to our KPD have given us an opportunity to experiment. I don't think he is THAT good that it's not worth trying for a few weeks.

and conceded 8 goals

[bulldogtragic]

and conceded 8 goals

Which proves what? None were on Naughton stuff ups. The forwardline functioned and we outscored them. Which is the point of the game.

[Bulldog4life]

26 goals and heading for another 50. He stays Forward

Yes personally I thought he looked a little lost down back. Needs a pre season if it is for good not now. Prefer him forward.

[bornadog]

Which proves what? None were on Naughton stuff ups. The forwardline functioned and we outscored them. Which is the point of the game.

Like the stuff up when he kicked it straight to North? Then ran back and Zurhar out marked him. He hasn't trained as a backman this season, he did the coach a favour to go back.

I just don't think a FF like him should be taken out of the forward line.

Others have their opinion and I have mine.

[1eyedog]

While the forwardline looked the most dangerous all year. Surely it’s about what’s best for the overall team and the result?

Let's remember who we were playing for a sec.

[bulldogtragic]

Like the stuff up when he kicked it straight to North? Then ran back and Zurhar out marked him. He hasn't trained as a backman this season, he did the coach a favour to go back.

I just don't think a FF like him should be taken out of the forward line.

Others have their opinion and I have mine.

Fair enough.

[bulldogtragic]

Let's remember who we were playing for a sec.

Look at the half stats. The same team. Two very different halves of forward footy.

[bornadog]

Fair enough.

I should add in the last 3 years we have won 38 games and lost 24 with Naughton playing forward and he has kicked 47, 50 and 26

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Not arguing that he's a very good individual forward. But what I saw today made me think he makes our other good forwards worse by running to the same spots and competing for the same marks. He is not a smart forward and kicks his goals through pure talent - not a bad thing in itself, but is it the best thing for the club?

In the first half, with Naughton forward, we had 36 inside 50s for 5.8.
In the second half, with Naughton back, we had 36 inside 50s for 10.7.

The injuries to our KPD have given us an opportunity to experiment. I don't think he is THAT good that it's not worth trying for a few weeks.
This is a compelling statistic caused by the serious injury to Liam Jones to finally move Naughton to defence.
Players like Ugle Hagen, Weightman who was outstanding and Lobb appeared to move with far more freedom, not forgetting the brilliance of Bont who was able to spend time forward with 3 goals. Will Bevo be finally convinced that this is worth continuing with on a more permanent basis.

[bulldogtragic]

I should add in the last 3 years we have won 38 games and lost 24 with Naughton playing forward and he has kicked 47, 50 and 26

Chris Grant kicked 500 goals before becoming a great CHB. It can be done.

[Grantysghost]

How about we play him forward and back.

[GVGjr]

Which proves what? None were on Naughton stuff ups. The forwardline functioned and we outscored them. Which is the point of the game.

I'm in the keep Naughton forward camp but understand if we had two of him we would have one at each end.
I didn't see a lot in what he did tonight to change my thoughts of moving him too the back line.

If the forward line functioned better without him tonight, and I'm not saying it did, then we need to change our forward line structure. Lets just have Naughton and Marra up forward.

[GVGjr]

How about we play him forward and back.

You love that Old El Paso girl don't you? :)

[bornadog]

I'm in the keep Naughton forward camp but understand if we had two of him we would have one at each end.
I didn't see a lot in what he did tonight to change my thoughts of moving him too the back line.

If the forward line functioned better without him tonight, and I'm not saying it did, then we need to change our forward line structure. Lets just have Naughton and Marra up forward.

We did change it up a bit tonight with Lobb starting on the bench.

[GVGjr]

Chris Grant kicked 500 goals before becoming a great CHB. It can be done.

Naugthon's not in the Chris Grant level just yet. The games changed and goals from taller forwards are just a bit harder to get.

[Scraggers]

I think while Jones is out, Naughton stays back. When Jones is back, Naughton goes back forward.

[MrMahatma]

He played half forward and kicked 2 goals.

JUH played full game and kicked 0.

Lobb full game and kicked 1.

Not sure why he’s the guy that needs to be dislodged. Naughton is a very good forward.

[bornadog]

Bevo says chances of Dog staying back are Naught (https://www.afl.com.au/news/952643/bevo-says-chances-of-dog-staying-back-are-naught)


WESTERN Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge has ruled out a defensive switch for Aaron Naughton, despite the forward plugging an injury-caused hole in the 21-point win over North Melbourne.


Tim O'Brien injured his hamstring, while Liam Jones fractured the radius bone in his forearm in the first quarter, heading straight to hospital for x-rays as the game played out.


"If we didn't have anyone else who could possibly play there on our list, you'd have to consider it, absolutely," Beveridge said post-match.


"But even yesterday, James O'Donnell, Josh Bruce, Ryan Gardner, they were all pretty solid in Footscray's win against Williamstown out there, so there are some boys there who can come in and play those important roles.


"As much as they weren't necessarily at their best the week before, they're still there. Aaron's really important for us forward. It's unlikely, because we've got options.


"They got a bit too much bang for their buck with their inside 50s in pretty open plays at times. We'd like to be able to stop a few more of those. So, at the moment, no, I imagine 'Naughts' is going to stay forward."


The Bulldogs go into their bye in seventh spot on the ladder, with Beveridge saying there is still room for improvement.


"I said it last week, we're just a margin off the best teams in the comp. Today, we had 72 inside-50s, so we're playing the way we want to play," Beveridge said.

[ledge]

He played half forward and kicked 2 goals.

JUH played full game and kicked 0.

Lobb full game and kicked 1.

Not sure why he’s the guy that needs to be dislodged. Naughton is a very good forward.

Jamarra has never played back and is a forward . Two of our backs went down . He went back due to necessity not because we chose to do it , there was no other option.
Naughton was a CHB originally

[hujsh]

How about we play him forward and back.

I'm intrigued by your ideas

[Grantysghost]

Bevo says chances of Dog staying back are Naught (https://www.afl.com.au/news/952643/bevo-says-chances-of-dog-staying-back-are-naught)


WESTERN Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge has ruled out a defensive switch for Aaron Naughton, despite the forward plugging an injury-caused hole in the 21-point win over North Melbourne.


Tim O'Brien injured his hamstring, while Liam Jones fractured the radius bone in his forearm in the first quarter, heading straight to hospital for x-rays as the game played out.


"If we didn't have anyone else who could possibly play there on our list, you'd have to consider it, absolutely," Beveridge said post-match.


"But even yesterday, James O'Donnell, Josh Bruce, Ryan Gardner, they were all pretty solid in Footscray's win against Williamstown out there, so there are some boys there who can come in and play those important roles.


"As much as they weren't necessarily at their best the week before, they're still there. Aaron's really important for us forward. It's unlikely, because we've got options.


"They got a bit too much bang for their buck with their inside 50s in pretty open plays at times. We'd like to be able to stop a few more of those. So, at the moment, no, I imagine 'Naughts' is going to stay forward."


The Bulldogs go into their bye in seventh spot on the ladder, with Beveridge saying there is still room for improvement.


"I said it last week, we're just a margin off the best teams in the comp. Today, we had 72 inside-50s, so we're playing the way we want to play," Beveridge said.

Definitely happening then.

[bornadog]

Definitely happening then.

Message from Bevo to you
\https://media.tenor.com/seJPi0DvOuQAAAAC/castle-tell-him-hes-dreaming.gif

[anfo27]

Definitely happening then.

Well, if you go off Bevo's Tom Stewart comment , then you're on the money.

[anfo27]

I would like to see Naughton back as well. Certainly his kicking is a big issue, Moz wasn't a good kick but he knew his limitations & barely made mistakes.
I'd like to see Darcy forward when his ready & Naughton back. His hands are better & he is a better finisher.

[MrMahatma]

Jamarra has never played back and is a forward . Two of our backs went down . He went back due to necessity not because we chose to do it , there was no other option.
Naughton was a CHB originally

I’m not sure if your point.

Naughton had a good game up forward, with half the time as others.

Moving him isn’t the answer. Having better defenders is.

[anfo27]

I’m not sure if your point.

Naughton had a good game up forward, with half the time as others.

Moving him isn’t the answer. Having better defenders is.

Don't disagree with that but easier said than done. Jones out for a while. Keath is done. Bruce no idea what to do with ball in hand. TOB just about done as well. We have forwards but no defenders. Shouldn't we play our team that best suits our list?

[Hotdog60]

I preferred Naughton forward but I would rather he play CHF and not so deep.
Give us a marking option out of defense and makes room for the another forwards.
I know he already leads up for an outlet but I would rather him taking shots from 50 than 20 metres out.

[Bullies]

He played half forward and kicked 2 goals.

JUH played full game and kicked 0.

Lobb full game and kicked 1.

Not sure why he’s the guy that needs to be dislodged. Naughton is a very good forward.It was a shame Naughton had to go back. He looked on his game and the North defence were very loose which he would have enjoyed cosidering the close checking he gets every week. We also need to remember that Marra will get the number 1 defender if Naughton goes back.

[bulldogtragic]

Journo: “So Alexander Fleming, by accident something good happened and the moulds brought about the creation of penicillin. Are you going to use this good luck or keep on with your rigid ideas.”

Flemo: “So, at the moment, no, I imagine 'Moulds' is going to stay forward in the Petrie dish, what could penicillin achieve?”

[AshMac]

Keep him back. Swing him forward occasional at the right moment of the right games.

I watched him pretty closely against port Adelaide. His off ball movement and leading patterns are so clunky. He competes with his own teammates for contested marks.

His marking ability, second efforts and aggression are elite characteristics and will serve him well anywhere - he is just a natural defender.

In a team with a glut of tall forwards, another 2m monster in Darcy playing VFL and Crofts son on the horizon - why can?t we keep him back and develop him into a 5x AA FB or CHB over the next 7 years?

[Bulldog Joe]

Cohesion in the forward line has been one of our issues for a long time.

It looked much better without Naughton there.

In the 1st Naughton killed a goal square mark for Jamarra costing a certain goal. That has been happening too often with our forwards competing for the same mark.

In the second half they had space from each other and used it well. Jamarra was very good delivering to the other forwards.

[jazzadogs]

It's definitely a choice where there is no right or wrong.

We KNOW:
- Naughton is an elite forward - 5th most goals in the whole competition across the last three years. Can take big contested marks and create his own goals on the ground.
- Lobb has struggled this year. He kicked 36 goals last year playing as #1 key forward out of the goal square.
- our key defensive pillar Liam Jones is out for an extended period, with likely replacements including Gardner (won't mark it, out of form), Bruce (not a KPD) or JOD (6 games of football).
- Josh Bruce has also played the best football of his career as a key forward, and currently looks as fit as he was in 2021 when he kicked 48 goals (also has seasons of 50, 38, 36 goals)

I just don't see why we wouldn't TRY. it's not discounting the fact that Naughton is an elite goal kicker - I'm just not convinced that is actually his best role IN THIS TEAM.

Just like Jack Macrae playing this hybrid half forward role. He is an ELITE ball winner in the contest...but Libba, Treloar and Bont are doing that better. So he is playing a different role for the TEAM.

[Boots]

Isn’t this the most frustrating thing about bevo? He will try almost anything except the obvious move.

in “a wink from the universe”, Flanagan talks about how Bevo turns players into their “natural” types. Specifically it talked about Picken’s transformation from tagger to small forward and Wood’s emergence as an intercept marker. In both cases Bevo basically told them play how it feels natural and let’s see what happens.

Reading between the lines, I think his style of coaching is about building players’ confidence in their talent rather than drilling their weaknesses, and then shaping the team to cover those weaknesses rather than fixing them. It’s a legitimate coaching strategy and it works really well - but I wonder how much bevo’s supposed rigidity grows from this approach. We talk about English’s refusal to be “second ruck”, for example. What if it’s bevo’s call because he fears it will dent English’s confidence?

It’s possible that Naughton expresses more confidence forward, which is why Bevo won’t move him.

[Grantysghost]

I'm not sold on the Naughton back train due to last night. I've been on it for a while.

However : what was clear as day was the space created by moving a tall forward out allowed things to function as intended.

Weightman plays as a tall, Marra does, Lobb does, Naughton does. When our high half forwards push up to the contest (always) we are left with no crumbers deep. We are crying out for a small crumbing forward. McNeil has the potential I think, however I'd like recruit someone into that role.

Naughton could be the ultimate swing man. Put him where needed.

[1eyedog]

Naughton has to play back because the options are Keath, Gardner and Bruce and so it will be bye bye finals if he doesn't.

[Sedat]

I'm not sold on the Naughton back train due to last night. I've been on it for a while.

However : what was clear as day was the space created by moving a tall forward out allowed things to function as intended.

Weightman plays as a tall, Marra does, Lobb does, Naughton does. When our high half forwards push up to the contest (always) we are left with no crumbers deep. We are crying out for a small crumbing forward. McNeil has the potential I think, however I'd like recruit someone into that role.

Naughton could be the ultimate swing man. Put him where needed.
Whatever we decide to do in the future with our structure, we need to understand Weightman is a 'tall' in exactly the same way as Toby Greene and Jamie Elliot - he's not and will never really be a traditional small crumbing forward. That means for mine we are probably going in with one (real) tall too many in the F50 most weeks.

[Topdog]

Much ado about nothing really.

We are a very average team and our wins have been against poor teams.

Only beat Brisbane and Adelaide from the top 8 and both were in Victoria.

The only thing that changed in the 2nd half was our forward line kicked straight.

[azabob]

Ok, now I’m confused.

So, are we moving Naughton to help our defence or our forward line?

[GVGjr]

Bevo's idea was initially to play 4 talls and due to the injury and form of Darcy that never quite happened. We even experimented with O'Donnell there for an extended period.
I don't think we can really question his intent.

Even with Jones out it's unlikely that changes much.
It's a good discussion but I think Bevo will stick with his plan and we just aren't a strong enough scoring side that can afford to take it's leading goal kickers away from the forward arc for a few games.

[Sedat]

Bevo's idea was initially to play 4 talls and due to the injury and form of Darcy that never quite happened. We even experimented with O'Donnell there for an extended period.
I don't think we can really question his intent.

Even with Jones out it's unlikely that changes much.
It's a good discussion but I think Bevo will stick with his plan and we just aren't a strong enough scoring side that can afford to take it's leading goal kickers away from the forward arc for a few games.
I don't think we will be seeing that experiment again any time soon. Having 4 talls plus Weightman as a 'tall' just makes us fair game for easy opposition D50 clearances. Although it did last 1 week longer than the Easton Wood as a forward experiment to be fair.

Bevo is actually pretty good at shelving structural plans pretty quickly if they patently don't work - he can pivot when he needs to. It is different discussion altogether with regard to his loyalty to specific players.

Naughton up forward is fine from my perspective. But when he is ice cold or double/triple teamed, he needs to be freed up to bash and crash around midfield for a 10-15 minute burst, or even swing behind the ball a little more often (like Adam Hunter during the West Coke era). He is too valuable a player to go 2 quarters not touching the ball as he has done in some games.

[Ozza]

The forward line finally had some space in it and looked to function much better with Naughton NOT there.

Naturally Bevo ruled out Naughton going back in the presser afterwards (from what I've read - I didn't watch it).

I'm thrilled we have the bye next weekend so I don't have to watch us. Its just so frustrating.

[jeemak]

I think we undersell Weightman's ability to pressure and get to a groundball, and I feel he's more rounded than being considered either a tall or small. He's a hybrid forward and is on his way to being an elite one at that.

However, that doesn't mean we don't need a genuine crumber as well.

As for Naughton, I was all for putting him back though I think to be effective in the role he'd need to train as a defender for a little while. What I really want to see from him in the immediate term is a less selfish approach to playing as a forward, more blocking for team mates, less crowding of contests, drawing the double team away from the space instead of bringing it with him to where his team mates could benefit from a genuine one on one.

There's no reason three tall forwards plus Weightman can't work, Naughton just needs to mature and sacrifice some of his game to make sure it does.

[EasternWest]

I think we undersell Weightman's ability to pressure and get to a groundball, and I feel he's more rounded than being considered either a tall or small. He's a hybrid forward and is on his way to being an elite one at that.

However, that doesn't mean we don't need a genuine crumber as well.

As for Naughton, I was all for putting him back though I think to be effective in the role he'd need to train as a defender for a little while. What I really want to see from him in the immediate term is a less selfish approach to playing as a forward, more blocking for team mates, less crowding of contests, drawing the double team away from the space instead of bringing it with him to where his team mates could benefit from a genuine one on one.

There's no reason three tall forwards plus Weightman can't work, Naughton just needs to mature and sacrifice some of his game to make sure it does.

I agree with all of this - especially the part about creating more opportunities for his forward partners. I don't really see it as selfishness, more as a lack of natural forward nous. Marra has it in spades.

Also, just to segue a bit, if other teams aren't talking a lot about doing something about Marra I think they should be. I feel like he's on the cusp of really exploding.

[Grantysghost]

I think we undersell Weightman's ability to pressure and get to a groundball, and I feel he's more rounded than being considered either a tall or small. He's a hybrid forward and is on his way to being an elite one at that.

However, that doesn't mean we don't need a genuine crumber as well.

As for Naughton, I was all for putting him back though I think to be effective in the role he'd need to train as a defender for a little while. What I really want to see from him in the immediate term is a less selfish approach to playing as a forward, more blocking for team mates, less crowding of contests, drawing the double team away from the space instead of bringing it with him to where his team mates could benefit from a genuine one on one.

There's no reason three tall forwards plus Weightman can't work, Naughton just needs to mature and sacrifice some of his game to make sure it does.

This is a great post.

Naughton seems to get trapped deep a lot, not on purpose he is actually falling in to a trap young Jessie/Jake Stringer fell into (by being lazy though) trying to take mark of the year at every contest.

Marra plays it so smart, he pushes up, creates space, drags defenders and hits up leads.

The Lobb one was a mistake yesterday, initially i thought he made the right decision but as it lingered he should've honoured it.

Weightman does have that in his game agree, however it's not natural. He plays tall when the ball is in the air. Can put really great pressure when it hits the deck and they have it.

How was the handball from the Bont for his 6th....? Woweeeeee.

[hujsh]

I think we undersell Weightman's ability to pressure and get to a groundball, and I feel he's more rounded than being considered either a tall or small. He's a hybrid forward and is on his way to being an elite one at that.

However, that doesn't mean we don't need a genuine crumber as well.

As for Naughton, I was all for putting him back though I think to be effective in the role he'd need to train as a defender for a little while. What I really want to see from him in the immediate term is a less selfish approach to playing as a forward, more blocking for team mates, less crowding of contests, drawing the double team away from the space instead of bringing it with him to where his team mates could benefit from a genuine one on one.

There's no reason three tall forwards plus Weightman can't work, Naughton just needs to mature and sacrifice some of his game to make sure it does.

That's fair. I think the most seductive aspect of the move yesterday was the forwards working more than anything Naughton actually did down back. If we saw it I'm sure the coaches saw it. Hopefully it's a good learning moment for Naughton and we see a little bit more thought in his game going forward

[jazzadogs]

Ok, now I’m confused.

So, are we moving Naughton to help our defence or our forward line?

I think it would do both.

I also really enjoyed jeemaks post - given it is far more likely that Naughton stays forward, then the second half should still give us a template for how the forward line needs to function together.

I love Naughton, but I'm not sure that his forward 'smarts' have improved much over the last few years. He has definitely improved in 1v1 wrestles, but his leading, blocking, awareness of teammates is still horrible.

[Sedat]

I think we undersell Weightman's ability to pressure and get to a groundball, and I feel he's more rounded than being considered either a tall or small. He's a hybrid forward and is on his way to being an elite one at that.

However, that doesn't mean we don't need a genuine crumber as well.
Absolutely, he has this in his game (as do Greene and Elliott). If pushed, I would say he is more instinctively a 'tall' forward than a small crumbing forward. Agree 100% he is well on the way to becoming an elite AFL footballer - I'm stoked with his progress.

If Arty can get more involved when he returns to the team, his instincts as a small pressure forward perfectly compliment what we need in F50. McNeil also has the right instincts in this area (if not the skill/composure).

FWIW, Naughton is no slouch in the pressure forward stakes either, even if it is obviously not his core function. We do need to work out what the optimum mix is inside F50 - Lobb needs to do a lot more as a 2nd/3rd tall target when he is in there, and I think his current lack of output is a big piece of the missing puzzle. Also the connection from midfield into F50 is poor and needs to improve - we can all see that.

We are doing a fair bit right in many parts of our game - I agree with Bevo that it won't take much tweaking/refining to become a genuine contender as early as this year.

[hujsh]

I guess there are two sides of it. How you compete/score goals and how well you apply defensive ground level pressure. Naughton and Weightman, to a lesser extent Jamarra but that's a bit dependent on the week, both apply that ground level pressure and can get goals at ground level but they are first and foremost marking forwards. It's just what they're better at. So we do have 4 marking forwards with Lobb and Jamarra even if the defensive pressure isn't sacrificed it is easier to defend not having to stress as much about the ground ball. Kill the contest your small defenders will have some opportunity to start the rebound while the bulldogs forwards get back to their feet.

[Scraggers]

Jamarra is a true lead-up forward, Naughton is not. I like the idea of Naughton playing as the swing. Let's utilise his athleticism and play him off a half-forward-flank. From there he can follow the ball and play either forward or back. He'd be harder to match up on, and would be able to crash packs either end of the ground.

That leaves space for Jamarra to lead, playing Lobb deep and utilising the height of Darcy to play forward and ruck.

[1eyedog]

Ok, now I?m confused.

So, are we moving Naughton to help our defence or our forward line?

Both.

My biggest concern right now is Jones is gone for an extended period and the options are not AFL level.

[Scorlibo]

I think we undersell Weightman's ability to pressure and get to a groundball, and I feel he's more rounded than being considered either a tall or small. He's a hybrid forward and is on his way to being an elite one at that.

However, that doesn't mean we don't need a genuine crumber as well.

As for Naughton, I was all for putting him back though I think to be effective in the role he'd need to train as a defender for a little while. What I really want to see from him in the immediate term is a less selfish approach to playing as a forward, more blocking for team mates, less crowding of contests, drawing the double team away from the space instead of bringing it with him to where his team mates could benefit from a genuine one on one.

There's no reason three tall forwards plus Weightman can't work, Naughton just needs to mature and sacrifice some of his game to make sure it does.

Great call Jee... I think it goes both ways with the selflessness (and to be fair on the players, are they being coached to sacrifice in this way?) A couple of times in the first half yesterday Jamarra spoiled Naughton underneath high balls. In my view, Jamarra shouldn't be flying for the bombs, it's not his forte, in this situation he should be providing the disguised block in the marking contest so that Aaron can clunk them. Conversely, Aaron should be evacuating the prime leading lanes for Jamarra and Cody (and Lobb I guess).

[Ozza]

Both.

My biggest concern right now is Jones is gone for an extended period and the options are not AFL level.

Would Jones definitely be out for an extended period? Don't they just put a plate in there and he plays straight after the bye?

[Bullies]

I'm not sold on the Naughton back train due to last night. I've been on it for a while.

However : what was clear as day was the space created by moving a tall forward out allowed things to function as intended.

Weightman plays as a tall, Marra does, Lobb does, Naughton does. When our high half forwards push up to the contest (always) we are left with no crumbers deep. We are crying out for a small crumbing forward. McNeil has the potential I think, however I'd like recruit someone into that role.

Naughton could be the ultimate swing man. Put him where needed. Clarke will be the small forward we need. Throw him in. He is an elite crumber and looks like the type of player who needs the top level to play at his best.

[GVGjr]

Would Jones definitely be out for an extended period? Don't they just put a plate in there and he plays straight after the bye?

5 weeks is the expected time frame. The good part is he will be able to maintain some running soon enough

[hujsh]

5 weeks is the expected time frame. The good part is he will be able to maintain some running soon enough

Damn, I don't look forward to watching our defence for those 4 weeks (assuming the bye is one of those 5)

[AshMac]

I think we undersell Weightman's ability to pressure and get to a groundball, and I feel he's more rounded than being considered either a tall or small. He's a hybrid forward and is on his way to being an elite one at that.

However, that doesn't mean we don't need a genuine crumber as well.

As for Naughton, I was all for putting him back though I think to be effective in the role he'd need to train as a defender for a little while. What I really want to see from him in the immediate term is a less selfish approach to playing as a forward, more blocking for team mates, less crowding of contests, drawing the double team away from the space instead of bringing it with him to where his team mates could benefit from a genuine one on one.

There's no reason three tall forwards plus Weightman can't work, Naughton just needs to mature and sacrifice some of his game to make sure it does.

It?s because he doesn?t know how to play as a forward that he jumps at everything and we have multiple players competing for the same ball.

I?d love to see him play his natural position. He isn?t the answer immediately, but he is an AA defender for sure once back in flow.

Re. Weightman - very well rounded when he is on. Wish he wouldn?t jump at absolutely everything though

[Sedat]

Damn, I don't look forward to watching our defence for those 4 weeks (assuming the bye is one of those 5)
Get Timmy playing a kick behind the play when he's rucking and we should be ok to cover this deficiency. Freo and the filth don't have key forward monsters, and hopefully by that stage Liam is back in the frame. Best way to cover the deficiency is to ensure the ball lives in our front half.

Wouldn't be against Naughts doing some stints down back but that seems unlikely.

[1eyedog]

Would Jones definitely be out for an extended period? Don't they just put a plate in there and he plays straight after the bye?

Post-bye it will be at least 4 weeks out for a fractured radius providing the rehab goes to plan.

[josie]

Clarke will be the small forward we need. Throw him in. He is an elite crumber and looks like the type of player who needs the top level to play at his best.

In the vfl recently Clarke has improved every match. Worth a try. Like his energy levels and team oriented approach too.

Arty should play wing in vfl (I know they have a bye too) to put pressure on Baker (who was a bit better on Sat night but still had a few clanger/brain fades). I think Arty was plated in wing at least towards end of last vfl match and although non-existent/poor in first 3 quarters believe he did a few nice things on ring in last (I missed last quarter but was listening to audio).

[josie]

Post-bye it will be at least 4 weeks out for a fractured radius providing the rehab goes to plan.

Thanks. That’s not great but if it’s that short it’s better than what I was fearing.

[Ozza]

Post-bye it will be at least 4 weeks out for a fractured radius providing the rehab goes to plan.

Thanks.

It seems a long time for a footballer to be out with a fracture - so thats a shame.