Calm down - we lost by 4x goals.

[mjp]

What has happened on here in the past 24-hours?

Players and teams can't be 'in form' forever. We had a pretty good crack last night and - as I think everyone would acknowledge - our frustrating inability to 'finish our work' cost us...Geelong on the other hand had a lot (including a couple of critical umpiring decisions) go there way.

Now we're all calling for the head of Aaron Naughton (who actually seemed to be busting his arse in terms of effort, intensity, commitment etc), apparently a young player (McNeil) is now on the never to play again list because he missed a goal...Jones was poor to be sure - and he probably DOES need a rest.

The team has been 'UP' for a long time and last night was not a St Kilda type capitulation...we tried hard, we fell short...it's not grand final week. Geelong were EXTREMELY motivated having lost to the Giants last week and played incredibly focussed footy after the break...and their BEST PLAYERS (Cameron, Hawkins and Stewart) beat us. Our BEST players - Bont, Naughton, English - well, English played a ripping game. The other two? Not so much...but they still led well and delivered effort. They seemed DESPERATE to keep trying and Naughton was still competing in the air (and took a fantastic contested mark on the wing late that wasn't paid) right to the end...

It's frustrating when we don't win every week (I feel it as well) but as long as I see EFFORT I'm not going to throw darts at the players. A skill error is a skill error...you can't do much about that! Geelong kicked some goals early because of our errors...no point losing sleep over it. And no point blaming the coach for it either...if the decision made looks right (and it did last night) then what do you want Bevo to do? Kick it for them?

I honestly don't know what everyone expects right now. They busted their butts and it wasn't good enough. Their heads were in the game 100% - but skill execution wasn't QUITE there. Team cohesion wasn't QUITE there. We lost by 4-goals and were in a position to win at 3/4 time...isn't that what you want EVERY week? For the plays to bring effort and energy? Didn't they do that?

[bulldogtragic]

I’m debating where Naughton plays and if he’s worth the money to keep him, in line with a rumour. And McNeil has three years of sub par footy. Just to be clear of what I’ve been posting.

We should’ve won. We didn’t, again. These two losses could and probably will cost us dearly. The opportunity lost is gone. It’s the season ramifications that are bigger than the loss itself. I’m not as forgiving. We should’ve won the last two weeks and cemented ourselves in the top four. We didn’t and watch other results for half a season now.

[GVGjr]

I don't think it's as dire as you are indicating MJP. It's always going to be some vigor in people sharing their views after a winnable loss and especially after two winnable losses.

Like last week I'm not devastated but a bit disappointed that we couldn't control our destiny but I'm really looking forward to the clash with Port Power. Onwards and upwards from my perspective.

[westbulldog]

The skill errors in terms of goalkicking have cost us dearly this year and in previous years. The coaching group appear to have done nothing to fix that. We also seem to apply a revolving door policy to players who will not make the grade.

[GVGjr]

The skill errors in terms of goalkicking have cost us dearly this year and in previous years. The coaching group appear to have done nothing to fix that. We also seem to apply a revolving door policy to players who will not make the grade.

It's losing the same way with goal kicking conversions and skill errors that sap peoples confidence.
The club needs to do something about it and potentially getting some experts in could be a good thing.
I was talking to someone last night and he said before during and after the game that we need someone like Tory Dickson to work with a few players. I'm not sure of Tory's ability to coach and teach but there must be some who could do it and add some value.

[Topdog]

We outplayed Geelong for 3 quarters and in the 2nd half kicked 2.8 vs 7.2. It should be fairly obvious why we lost. No need to throw the toys out.

[mjp]

We should’ve won. We didn’t, again. These two losses could and probably will cost us dearly. The opportunity lost is gone.

But WHY should we have won?

I've had a couple of people say this to me...you don't get to 'win' just because you try hard. Geelong were better and cleaner when it mattered and got the result they deserved. WE think we *shoulda* won because we are seeing things through r-w-b lenses...all I know is that I thought we played with great effort and whilst the skill errors were frustrating, ultimately that's what they were...skill errors.

The idea that it will cost us? Well - it COULD cost us. We don't know what the rest of the season holds but I can tell you right now I am 100% happier with the past two weeks than I was with the first two weeks when we played dis-spirited footy and simply didn't seem to care...we played with effort and passion but - well, you don't get to be in your best form all the time. Some of our team play last night - to attack and defend - was absolutely breath-taking and if you didn't see that then I'm not sure what you were watching.

I feel sometimes we all want to look at each game as if it is some kind of referendum on where the team/each player is at...it doesn't work that way. We play a SEASON of footy and it all works it's way out in the end.

Do I understand the frustration? Of course. Do I think it's a good idea to switch the ball back to Gardner inside D50 when that's clearly what the oppo want us to do? No - I don't. But that's just something to work on now isn't it?

I said before the Carlton game that we had won essentially 8 in a row (the loss to PA was in there) and that we were up against it...since then, we have been to Ballarat and Darwin. Is anyone surprised it's been hard to play at anything more than 95% capacity right now? Does anyone think that 95% is going to be good enough if the oppo is INTERESTED (which GC and Geelong clearly were).

[The bulldog tragician]

What has happened on here in the past 24-hours?

Players and teams can't be 'in form' forever. We had a pretty good crack last night and - as I think everyone would acknowledge - our frustrating inability to 'finish our work' cost us...Geelong on the other hand had a lot (including a couple of critical umpiring decisions) go there way.

Now we're all calling for the head of Aaron Naughton (who actually seemed to be busting his arse in terms of effort, intensity, commitment etc), apparently a young player (McNeil) is now on the never to play again list because he missed a goal...Jones was poor to be sure - and he probably DOES need a rest.

The team has been 'UP' for a long time and last night was not a St Kilda type capitulation...we tried hard, we fell short...it's not grand final week. Geelong were EXTREMELY motivated having lost to the Giants last week and played incredibly focussed footy after the break...and their BEST PLAYERS (Cameron, Hawkins and Stewart) beat us. Our BEST players - Bont, Naughton, English - well, English played a ripping game. The other two? Not so much...but they still led well and delivered effort. They seemed DESPERATE to keep trying and Naughton was still competing in the air (and took a fantastic contested mark on the wing late that wasn't paid) right to the end...

It's frustrating when we don't win every week (I feel it as well) but as long as I see EFFORT I'm not going to throw darts at the players. A skill error is a skill error...you can't do much about that! Geelong kicked some goals early because of our errors...no point losing sleep over it. And no point blaming the coach for it either...if the decision made looks right (and it did last night) then what do you want Bevo to do? Kick it for them?

I honestly don't know what everyone expects right now. They busted their butts and it wasn't good enough. Their heads were in the game 100% - but skill execution wasn't QUITE there. Team cohesion wasn't QUITE there. We lost by 4-goals and were in a position to win at 3/4 time...isn't that what you want EVERY week? For the plays to bring effort and energy? Didn't they do that?

Great post. I think our emotional reactions and disappointment were related to the fact that we are so sick of losing to Geelong. They have had our measure for such a long time. And I think that the fact the effort was indeed there…but still wasn’t enough…can make it feel worse! It is a very frustrating way to lose.

[Topdog]

It's losing the same way with goal kicking conversions and skill errors that sap peoples confidence.
The club needs to do something about it and potentially getting some experts in could be a good thing.
I was talking to someone last night and he said before during and after the game that we need someone like Tory Dickson to work with a few players. I'm not sure of Tory's ability to coach and teach but there must be some who could do it and add some value.

It is soul destroying for sure but I worry that people lay the blame at the wrong people often or at the very least target the same players all the time. It is across the entire playing group and not just 1 or 2.

This is fairly poor reading.
https://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?SeasonID=2023&TeamID=7&Sort=Behinds%20Desc#player

[angelopetraglia]

I kind of agree with the sentiment.

The frustration comes from that this a very typical way to lose in the Bevo era. This isn't new. We have seen this movie before. Many times. Yet it keeps on happening and undermining our ability to grab a top four spot. Why does it keep on happening? Why have we not fixed it?

(Also. This was a Geelong team without Danger, Duncan, Guthrie, Holmes and Stanley. There were missing their starting four in the centre bounce.)

[angelopetraglia]

Is Bevo a master coach getting the most out of a group of not so talented players? i.e. the game plan and preparation is so good that we build a dominant position in game play but can't finish it off due to a lack of talent?

Or does Bevo just have a game plan that is too hard to execute? Does it rely on too much skill? Is it inevitable that via his game plan and coaching strategy that we will not be able to execute the final killer blow of the plan?

[Jeanette54]

I guess the reason there is so much angst, is that we keep loosing for the same reasons, with no change in sight. Forward half turnovers and failure to convert scoring opportunities continue to be our Achilles heel. And yet either our players can't (or won't) learn, or the coaching staff are incapable of changing things.

We are also choosing to play TWO men short. Its one thing to invest games in young players, but put brutally, Arty and JOOD are not worth their place in the side based on current performances.

[bulldogtragic]

But WHY should we have won?

I've had a couple of people say this to me...you don't get to 'win' just because you try hard. Geelong were better and cleaner when it mattered and got the result they deserved. WE think we *shoulda* won because we are seeing things through r-w-b lenses...all I know is that I thought we played with great effort and whilst the skill errors were frustrating, ultimately that's what they were...skill errors.

The idea that it will cost us? Well - it COULD cost us. We don't know what the rest of the season holds but I can tell you right now I am 100% happier with the past two weeks than I was with the first two weeks when we played dis-spirited footy and simply didn't seem to care...we played with effort and passion but - well, you don't get to be in your best form all the time. Some of our team play last night - to attack and defend - was absolutely breath-taking and if you didn't see that then I'm not sure what you were watching.

I feel sometimes we all want to look at each game as if it is some kind of referendum on where the team/each player is at...it doesn't work that way. We play a SEASON of footy and it all works it's way out in the end.

Do I understand the frustration? Of course. Do I think it's a good idea to switch the ball back to Gardner inside D50 when that's clearly what the oppo want us to do? No - I don't. But that's just something to work on now isn't it?

I said before the Carlton game that we had won essentially 8 in a row (the loss to PA was in there) and that we were up against it...since then, we have been to Ballarat and Darwin. Is anyone surprised it's been hard to play at anything more than 95% capacity right now? Does anyone think that 95% is going to be good enough if the oppo is INTERESTED (which GC and Geelong clearly were).

I appreciate your perspective Mike. But if we keep dominating I50 and shots on goal and losing to teams below us on the ladder because primarily our skills are poor in finishing, then it will continue to hurt us. It’s losing the same way that’s frustrating. It’s losing a rolled gold opportunity that’s frustrating. As I’ve said several times, the game and the loss in and of itself isn’t what has got under my skin. It’s the lost opportunity because of a basic skill we’ve not addressed and it keeps coming back to hurt us.

But if you want balance, yes there was good things. English was fantastic. Daniel was excellent. We did a lot of ok to good things. But we shoulda won not just ‘because’, we should a won by converting easy shots on goal for the last two weeks (9 more shots across both games, for 7 less goals across both games) and be sitting pretty in the top 4 playing Port, taking a well earned rest and running home hot. That was our opportunity to take and we fluffed our lines. It’s not all bad, sure. But I’m not satisfied either. The game was just the game, what it means for the season is way bigger. Watching highly skilled guys butcher goal shots and our chance to win never stops tiring me. I get you can’t win all the time, but we should have won the last two weeks straight up.

[kruder]

It's the predictability of the loss is the frustrating part and the way we give up easy goals on the turnover that hurts more than the goal kicking for mine.You don't give up 97 points and win many AFL games these days. Prior to the Gold Coast game I was saying we need to win this one as you can lock in a loss to the cats.

In the last round of the season we play at GMHBA, it could very well be Hawkins last game at the venue and all woofers know what the result is going to be. It could cost us top 4 maybe a place in the finals? When it comes to the cats effort isn't good enough for mine and I reckon it was laziness and lack of application that lost us the game last night. Oh and one bloody big mental block!

In saying that we can get our season back on track by beating the power and we have the ability to do it.

[GVGjr]

But WHY should we have won?



Because our best was/is very good and against quality opposition like Geelong are you need to be precise in those decisive moments and we failed to capitlise on our hard earned chances.
I think that and some questionable match committee selections are a constant source of frustration amongst the fans.
People can see that we aren't quite performing to our ability and it's costing us in close games.

We play some very good football and it's close to working and we just need improve in a couple of areas.

[Sedat]

Great post. I think our emotional reactions and disappointment were related to the fact that we are so sick of losing to Geelong.
There's also the small matter of their entire starting midfield being out injured, which is the supposed area of strength for us. Could you imagine us beating Geelong with Bont, Libba and Macrae out injured?

I accepted last week's loss. But last night only reinforces our collective mental fragility. It also exposes that our system breaks down too easily against opposition who are willing and able to take away from our game plan, irrespective of their personnel.

Last night was an incredibly poor performance IMO, relative to our self-proclamations of being a top 4 aspirant.

[MrMahatma]

It?s a long season and I really just want us to be in form in Sept. We don?t seem to be a team that can win 10 on the bounce ever and that?s ok. We may just need to win 4 on the trot at the right time again.

Losing yo Geelong is predictable unfortunately.

We can def take Port.

[D Mitchell]

I guess the reason there is so much angst, is that we keep loosing for the same reasons, with no change in sight. Forward half turnovers and failure to convert scoring opportunities continue to be our Achilles heel. And yet either our players can't (or won't) learn, or the coaching staff are incapable of changing things.

We are also choosing to play TWO men short. Its one thing to invest games in young players, but put brutally, Arty and JOOD are not worth their place in the side based on current performances.
Bolded bit. Add to those, obsession with lateral movement at half back and even on entry into F 50. Gelong were able to find targets in the corridor and where everyone was covered, used handball to a fast running receiver to break up our defensive positioning. In defence of O'Donnell, he equalled Naughton, Lobb and Ugle-Hagan on the scoreboard,

[Grantysghost]

Effort isn't the only indicator.

Trying is great and all.

If we lose by ten goals next week and try I want another of these MJP ;)

I agree though I'm not that upset.

We weren't that far away just some footy smarts.

Guess it's about expectations. I rate us 6-10.

[Rocco Jones]

There's also the small matter of their entire starting midfield being out injured, which is the supposed area of strength for us. Could you imagine us beating Geelong with Bont, Libba and Macrae out injured?

I accepted last week's loss. But last night only reinforces our collective mental fragility. It also exposes that our system breaks down too easily against opposition who are willing and able to take away from our game plan, irrespective of their personnel.

Last night was an incredibly poor performance IMO, relative to our self-proclamations of being a top 4 aspirant.

I am a combo of this and mjp's OP. A bit bipolar about us.

I think both of you make excellent points. We are bringing consistent 'effort' and ability to be at least in games. We could have easily won our last 10, a positive and a negative I guess.

My issues are less about losing in isolation as much and more about fragilities Sedat mentioned. The positive is that since making adjustments after Round 2, our default seems to be at least to be competitive.

[Topdog]

The saddest part is i told my mate in the 1st qtr that we would end up on 10.15 and lose the match.

[SonofScray]

Not calming down. I’m angrier, in fact.

It’s as simple as this. We have the requisite level of talent on the field and in the coach’s box (not my view, but seems to be consensus), despite this we can’t beat an injury plagued Geelong, or a full strength Geelong. Or a poor performed Geelong. Or a well performed Geelong.

We’ve stuffed our crack at a top 4 finish and that was the only acceptable pass mark for the regular season for mine. We’ve been treading water, below our capabilities for too long. The rare times we get up and going, we get exposed for a combination of being inaccurate and fragile.

The group, players and coaches have failed to bring a physically robust brand of footy to the table. They’re a nothing group. Not crap, not good, not anything. Just there. It’s disgusting and too many folk have been too generous with the amount of credits they’ve allowed the leadership to hold in the bank.

It can be resolved. I’d still rather be here now than a number of other clubs, but that’s not good enough. I want us in the best possible place for winning another flag. What we’re getting is nowhere near it.

[Rocco Jones]

Not calming down. I’m angrier, in fact.

It’s as simple as this. We have the requisite level of talent on the field and in the coach’s box (not my view, but seems to be consensus), despite this we can’t beat an injury plagued Geelong, or a full strength Geelong. Or a poor performed Geelong. Or a well performed Geelong.

We’ve stuffed our crack at a top 4 finish and that was the only acceptable pass mark for the regular season for mine. We’ve been treading water, below our capabilities for too long. The rare times we get up and going, we get exposed for a combination of being inaccurate and fragile.

The group, players and coaches have failed to bring a physically robust brand of footy to the table. They’re a nothing group. Not crap, not good, not anything. Just there. It’s disgusting and too many folk have been too generous with the amount of credits they’ve allowed the leadership to hold in the bank.

It can be resolved. I’d still rather be here now than a number of other clubs, but that’s not good enough. I want us in the best possible place for winning another flag. What we’re getting is nowhere near it.

Rather than 'calming down', I suggest maintaining perspective. You mention anger but I think this post also has perspective mentioning it can be resolved, we have the talent et al.

I think we it's been a tough few years as a fan, in terms of expectations and how frustrating we can be. That includes high expectations, which is great but yeah, I digress.

I feel we probably heighten expectations too much when we are going well and then get upset when things go bad. We are a constant case of never being as bad or as good as it seems. At the moment to me, as frustrating as it is, we are pretty consistent in our own way. We are a low half of the 8 side. Can be pretty good and can be pretty bad. Kinda putting the first two rounds of being pathetic in the rear view mirror.

Perhaps the most frustrating part is that are kinda close. Almost easier if we just crashed and burned on fans as means less depth of getting hurt.

[Boots]

I think MJP is bang on, especially from a coaching perspective. No win is guaranteed, and you can’t bemoan the bounce of the ball. You have to focus on what you can impact, and account for what you can’t, and unlike the first two weeks, the effort was there. I wholeheartedly agree that going off at McNeil or Gardner is pointless. Focusing on single errors, no matter how costly, is also pointless.

But the tragician has it right for me - this was GEELONG. We never beat them, especially not when we play on our own terms. They have a level of skill we cannot hope to match for some reason. Their bottom six is better at every facet of the game than ours. They have great positioning, they can run, their disposal is cleaner. Losing to them sucks because we always lose to them, but it sucks more because they show us what a disciplined and professional side look like. They make us look like a rabble, and part of my frustration is, I want to know why we look like a rabble.

[D Mitchell]

The saddest part is i told my mate in the 1st qtr that we would end up on 10.15 and lose the match.

No wonder the loss, why only 10:15 ? Aim higher on Friday night.

[The bulldog tragician]

I think MJP is bang on, especially from a coaching perspective. No win is guaranteed, and you can’t bemoan the bounce of the ball. You have to focus on what you can impact, and account for what you can’t, and unlike the first two weeks, the effort was there. I wholeheartedly agree that going off at McNeil or Gardner is pointless focusing on single errors, no matter how costly, is also pointless.

But the tragician has it right for me - this was GEELONG. We never beat them, especially not when we play on our own terms. They have a level of skill we cannot hope to match for some reason. Their bottom six is better at every facet of the game than ours. They have great positioning, they can run, their disposal is cleaner. Losing to them sucks because we always lose to them, but it sucks more because they show us what a disciplined and professional side look like. They make us look like a rabble, and part of my frustration is, I want to know why we look like a rabble.
It also feels like they are a model for what didn’t happen for us. Their breakthrough premiership launched a dynasty. The group largely stayed together. They contended and never bottomed out. When they seemed to have a ridiculous strategy of topping up with oldies they stayed the course. I don’t like Chris Scott one little bit but they are so well coached and of course attract high quality players (cough) lifestyle (cough).

They have owned us for such a long time. In 2006 I think, we were both exciting emerging teams, we won by a point, in the return match they got us by a point, but they were the ones who went on to grand finals and premierships.

Ok what am I saying? ( there was a point here somewhere). Losses to them DO seem worse. With each one the angst builds. I don’t leave games til the end but last night I did when Marra kicked out on the full. It’s irrational, emotional … such is footy. Which is why I thank mjp for his post and perspective while still feeling unbelievably frustrated with the loss when we had every chance to win.

[lemmon]

I think the expectations part of the conversation is spot on. I rate the list higher than most - I think our top-end talent is as good as anyone else's in the league, they're experienced and finals hardened, we've recruited for now and we've had a good run with injuries.

I personally don't see us making the top 4 having dropped the past two games, which for me, is a failure for this group. I understand the caveats and I understand the effort, but equally, Geelong put out a fairly average 22 and we're losing time and again in the same manner.

I'd be happy with 'the effort was there' if we were a Hawthorn or a North, but this side is past that and if it's not 'now', for this list, then I don't see when it will happen.

The skill errors, the lack of connection with our forwards and the inability to convert are independent of effort and have been consistent themes basically since Bevo came on-board. That's what will anchor us to the bottom half of the eight which for me, is a big underachievement.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yeah I'm surprised some are 'happy' that we're bringing somewhat consistent effort, as if that's a pass mark. That's an expectation, nothing more.

I want improvement. Improvement in structure, improvement in how we defend the ground, improvement in how we score, improvement in how our mids connect with our forwards, improvement skill execution. Which of these have improved since 2016? Defending the ground improved from rounds 3-8 (or so), and has gone backwards in the last two weeks. We've bemoaned our mid/forward connection for years and do we even need to mention conversion?

The first two weeks were so diabolical that some fans are accepting of effort. No. I want what we systematically planned for - a top 4 finish, as stated by our coach and our club. We are nowhere near it.

Losing to a Geelong side with what was essentially a VFL midfield is an insult.

What I want is for our coaches and players to be held accountable for failure, but what I know I'll get is excuses and flattery of the opposition. Make no mistake about it, the last two weeks our opposition didn't beat us. We beat us.

[1eyedog]

What has happened on here in the past 24-hours?

Players and teams can't be 'in form' forever. We had a pretty good crack last night and - as I think everyone would acknowledge - our frustrating inability to 'finish our work' cost us...Geelong on the other hand had a lot (including a couple of critical umpiring decisions) go there way.

Now we're all calling for the head of Aaron Naughton (who actually seemed to be busting his arse in terms of effort, intensity, commitment etc), apparently a young player (McNeil) is now on the never to play again list because he missed a goal...Jones was poor to be sure - and he probably DOES need a rest.

The team has been 'UP' for a long time and last night was not a St Kilda type capitulation...we tried hard, we fell short...it's not grand final week. Geelong were EXTREMELY motivated having lost to the Giants last week and played incredibly focussed footy after the break...and their BEST PLAYERS (Cameron, Hawkins and Stewart) beat us. Our BEST players - Bont, Naughton, English - well, English played a ripping game. The other two? Not so much...but they still led well and delivered effort. They seemed DESPERATE to keep trying and Naughton was still competing in the air (and took a fantastic contested mark on the wing late that wasn't paid) right to the end...

It's frustrating when we don't win every week (I feel it as well) but as long as I see EFFORT I'm not going to throw darts at the players. A skill error is a skill error...you can't do much about that! Geelong kicked some goals early because of our errors...no point losing sleep over it. And no point blaming the coach for it either...if the decision made looks right (and it did last night) then what do you want Bevo to do? Kick it for them?

I honestly don't know what everyone expects right now. They busted their butts and it wasn't good enough. Their heads were in the game 100% - but skill execution wasn't QUITE there. Team cohesion wasn't QUITE there. We lost by 4-goals and were in a position to win at 3/4 time...isn't that what you want EVERY week? For the plays to bring effort and energy? Didn't they do that?

You're way too forgiving re. this mob but there's not much more we can do about it than move on.

[1eyedog]

It's losing the same way with goal kicking conversions and skill errors that sap peoples confidence.
The club needs to do something about it and potentially getting some experts in could be a good thing.
I was talking to someone last night and he said before during and after the game that we need someone like Tory Dickson to work with a few players. I'm not sure of Tory's ability to coach and teach but there must be some who could do it and add some value.

If only Two Dogs hadn't gone AWOL he would fix it in an hour.

[jeemak]

That we've been consistently bringing effort is in itself an improvement for this group. So credit to them on that front, they're now at the level we expect and need to maintain it.

There just has to be an improvement across the fundamentals in skill and decision making. Defenders need to ensure that if they're going to fly the ball doesn't get out the back, forwards need to fight like hell not to be outmarked so we can retain the football. Everyone needs to have respect for the football, and use it with care and purpose. Players can't cough up the football with panicked and errant use when we're outnumbered.

To see an improvement in the above isn't asking a lot. If we do see that, plus a maintenance of the required effort then we will compete at a higher level.

[jazzadogs]

Make no mistake about it, the last two weeks our opposition didn't beat us. We beat us.

I agree with this part, but...I think the blame for that lies squarely on the players.

We are creating scoring opportunities....GOOD scoring opportunities....but not executing. It's an inexact science but last week the expected score (based on the expected scores for the average AFL player shooting from that scenario in that position) had us winning 85-76 (we lost 75-83). Last night the expected score was 84 a piece - we lost 74-96.

Those two results tell me that we created good opportunities but didn't capitalise, and we also had opponents who scored at above average levels. I place the blame with the players, not the coaches.

The inaccuracy, as well as the fact that we still sit 7th after 12 games with a 7-5 record, tell me that our season is still very much alive, we are still better than a whole bunch of teams and IF we can kick accurately (like we did in the 2016 and 2021 finals series) then we have the game plan to take it up to all teams.

None of this is to say that losing last night didn't absolutely sh** me up the wall...but it's not a disaster zone. And when we lose to Port on Friday, who have clearly been a top team all year, that's also not panic stations - as long as it's not a systemic destruction of our whole game plan.

[bornadog]

I agree with this part, but...I think the blame for that lies squarely on the players.

We are creating scoring opportunities....GOOD scoring opportunities....but not executing. It's an inexact science but last week the expected score (based on the expected scores for the average AFL player shooting from that scenario in that position) had us winning 85-76 (we lost 75-83). Last night the expected score was 84 a piece - we lost 74-96.

Those two results tell me that we created good opportunities but didn't capitalise, and we also had opponents who scored at above average levels. I place the blame with the players, not the coaches.

The inaccuracy, as well as the fact that we still sit 7th after 12 games with a 7-5 record, tell me that our season is still very much alive, we are still better than a whole bunch of teams and IF we can kick accurately (like we did in the 2016 and 2021 finals series) then we have the game plan to take it up to all teams.

None of this is to say that losing last night didn't absolutely sh** me up the wall...but it's not a disaster zone. And when we lose to Port on Friday, who have clearly been a top team all year, that's also not panic stations - as long as it's not a systemic destruction of our whole game plan.

Completely agree with this. The mids created every opportunity for the forwards to kick goals but they didn't take that opportunity. Geelong were smashed by the mids with cont. Poss., clearances and more disposals, but our backline and forward line failed. Make no mistake, Geelong has one of the best forward lines and best defenses. They may have had some of their best mids out, but they will still pounce on turnovers and score.

Bevo has the plans, and it is working, but inaccuracy is killing us. The players must take full responsibility.

With 11 games to go, we must take the opportunities and win.

[Bigdog]

I?ve cooled down after last night. I decided to watch the mini to get a feel for how we got scored against.

The first quarter - almost all goals against were from unforced turnovers. Turnover created by some of our better ball users. Daniel and Richards coughed it up. Really not sure what can be done to tidy up unforced errors when caused by your best users. I can?t put this on coaching or structure.

The second quarter - 2 goals against from shit free kicks and one on the siren. Really thought we should have been 3-4 goals up at half time

The third and fourth quarter - they got us out the back. There small and mid players had us covered for leg speed. I think VDM and Cleary will be very important in the second half of the year. VDM at least has the leg speed to go with a player like Close. Cleary doesn?t look slow either. I think Cleary should come in for Richards next week and VDM back after the bye as he didn?t run out the game all that well in the magoos after a very good first half. It Might be worth bringing poulter in at the expense of a tall just to get some more runners in the team (poulter form doesn?t warrant selection but we really don?t have anyone banging down the door at the moment) that could play off a half back.

Offensively we had the same old issues that have been prevalent for most the year:

- Midfield predictability - would love for either naughton or JUH ato get a run in at centre bounces once in a while. Both have burst speed and are pretty hard to stop running at full flight. It will give opposition something to worry about.
- Poor entries inside 50 - we have to move the footy faster imo to naughton. There were a few opportunities to kick to naughton deep one out we didn?t move it last night. The entries have to be deeper.
- Small forwards were passengers - Not sure what to do about this as we have very minimal depth. Clarke is a million miles away. And I think we need to persist with VDM a behind the ball.
- Forward structure - I really think they need to pull the trigger on Josh Bruce. Play him forward. A fit Bruce you know exactly what you will get. His tough, he runs to good spots and he has a good connection with Naughton. This will straighten us up big time and we know his fit compared to last season (Ribs aside). I?d like the forward line to look like Bruce, Naughton and JUH. Lobb can stay on the wing for an extended period. I think Lobb on the wing can work.
- Missed opportunities - Bruce helps with this again as his a straight kicker.

[soupman]

Good post Bigdog.

I was fairly positive coming away from the game. To me it felt like we lost through our inability to execute, and our defenders having a few poor moments. I was most worried about Geelogn lifting and us not being able to go with them, as has happened against other good teams. It didn't feel like that, and I think unlike some of our other losses to that calibre of opposition if that game gets played 9 more times we probably win half of them.

Think losing Richards was huge too, arguably our best defender both with and without ball in hand.

[angelopetraglia]

Expected score ladder. Just tells us what we know. We are simply not taking the chances we create. Whether that is just conversion skills or the way the ball is coming into the F50.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxzQqsEaYAEBPBY?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[Grantysghost]

Expected score ladder. Just tells us what we know. We are simply not taking the chances we create. Whether that is just conversion skills or the way the ball is coming into the F50.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxzQqsEaYAEBPBY?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Should be called expected skill ladder.

[Mantis]

I’m more frustrated than angry… we are doing so much right during games and our effort is by and large very good. However our ability to finish off our work in F50 and move the ball efficiently around the ground isn’t where it needs to be and it’s costing us wins.

Well paid professional athletes should be able to execute their skills better than what they’re doing at present and it seems by the way we train we don’t really give a **** about goal kicking, and it shows… see plenty of vision of our players skylarking around taking shots from the boundary, but either in terms of written reports or watching training it’s rare to see our players taking part in dedicated goal kicking practice.

I play golf at a reasonable level and have some friends who tried to make it on a professional level and the amount of work they put in to try and make the grade, even just on the local tour was insane… they were grinding their ass off to try and move through the ranks and would practice for 10hrs each day to try and find their groove.

There are players within our team that would spend more time on the golf course each week than they do at training, and sure everyone deserves days off and downtime, but when we can’t hit the side of a barn under pressure it might be time to work out what the priorities are and dedicate some time on that.

[MrMahatma]

I’m more frustrated than angry… we are doing so much right during games and our effort is by and large very good. However our ability to finish off our work in F50 and move the ball efficiently around the ground isn’t where it needs to be and it’s costing us wins.

Well paid professional athletes should be able to execute their skills better than what they’re doing at present and it seems by the way we train we don’t really give a **** about goal kicking, and it shows… see plenty of vision of our players skylarking around taking shots from the boundary, but either in terms of written reports or watching training it’s rare to see our players taking part in dedicated goal kicking practice.

I play golf at a reasonable level and have some friends who tried to make it on a professional level and the amount of work they put in to try and make the grade, even just on the local tour was insane… they were grinding their ass off to try and move through the ranks and would practice for 10hrs each day to try and find their groove.

There are players within our team that would spend more time on the golf course each week than they do at training, and sure everyone deserves days off and downtime, but when we can’t hit the side of a barn under pressure it might be time to work out what the priorities are and dedicate some time on that.

Every player should have to have 20 shots on goal each training session, and their stats should be made public. And we should get a sponsor who pays $1k to the winner each week, and $100k, $50k, 20k to top 3 at year end. And if you’re a rookie and win it, you’re guaranteed a contract the next season.

May be some salary cap issues here but why not? Step it up!

[Curly5]

It's losing the same way with goal kicking conversions and skill errors that sap peoples confidence.
The club needs to do something about it and potentially getting some experts in could be a good thing.
I was talking to someone last night and he said before during and after the game that we need someone like Tory Dickson to work with a few players. I'm not sure of Tory's ability to coach and teach but there must be some who could do it and add some value.

Tory always said he didn't know how he kicked straight, he just did! Didn't Sav Rocca help out a team's goal-kicking a while ago? How about Matthew Richardson?

I hope everyone sticks with the team and gets along to Marvel on Friday. The boys need support more than ever. They are not trying to lose. We are in sixth place with a decent run after the bye so we should be optimistic that things will turn around.

[Boots]

You know there’s one real positive here.

We fixed the ruck.

“the forward line has good cattle but sucks” is such a better problem to have than “the ruck sucks and we don’t have a forward line”

[The Adelaide Connection]

I am glad somebody made this thread.

I poured over a few of the threads in the aftermath of last week and it honestly felt like I had wandered onto Bomberblitz.

People are free to react however they want, I just don't necessarily agree with all the "not going again this year" threats and dummy spitting.

We are in the 8, we have one of the "easiest" draws on the way home, and we are some better goal kicking away from being a top 4 team.

There are a lot of "if's in there" but hell, I would rather take that than what the likes of Carlton are dishing up.

I am flying back over for my third game of the year to watch us play Collingwood and, to be perfectly honest, I don't expect us to win that one. But I will be there cheering the team on regardless.

I fear for this club if our most passionate, loyal members start pulling the pin on going in a season where we are in the mix. What is going to happen if we cycle back down and are stuck down the bottom for a period of years?

[mjp]

I am glad somebody made this thread.


You're so welcome.

[mjp]

Every player should have to have 20 shots on goal each training session...

Cool.

And what happens if they miss 17 of them? Going in feeling SUPER confident, right.

Just having shots at goal doesn't make you a better kick for goal...

[hujsh]

I am glad somebody made this thread.

I poured over a few of the threads in the aftermath of last week and it honestly felt like I had wandered onto Bomberblitz.

People are free to react however they want, I just don't necessarily agree with all the "not going again this year" threats and dummy spitting.

We are in the 8, we have one of the "easiest" draws on the way home, and we are some better goal kicking away from being a top 4 team.

There are a lot of "if's in there" but hell, I would rather take that than what the likes of Carlton are dishing up.

I am flying back over for my third game of the year to watch us play Collingwood and, to be perfectly honest, I don't expect us to win that one. But I will be there cheering the team on regardless.

I fear for this club if our most passionate, loyal members start pulling the pin on going in a season where we are in the mix. What is going to happen if we cycle back down and are stuck down the bottom for a period of years?

It's kinda what I was looking for with my 'how bad was it' thread but realistically it was always going to turn into another vent thread

[Mantis]

Cool.

And what happens if they miss 17 of them? Going in feeling SUPER confident, right.

Just having shots at goal doesn't make you a better kick for goal...

Improving your technique and routine does help though, and sometimes you need to peel things back and almost start again… I take things back to golf as it’s a sport that I had a passion for back when I had some more time and was able to improve my game over time through instruction, changing techniques and then perfecting it through practice. I went backwards before improving, but over time I improved to a point where I consistently knew where my ball was going to go and with what shape (straight, fade or draw).

The fact that players within our team whose responsibility is to kick goals haven’t appeared to change anything with regard to technique or routine is unacceptable and is the definition of insanity.

[1eyedog]

Cool.

And what happens if they miss 17 of them? Going in feeling SUPER confident, right.

Just having shots at goal doesn't make you a better kick for goal...

It does actually if you commit to a basic routine and put in the work. I agree though you are naturally disposed to being either a good shot for goal or not but you can make yourself more efficient over time with hard work (unless your Richo or N Riewoldt).

I've coached plenty of junior boys and girls into being better set shot kickers using a basic routine and practice, practice, practice.

Problem is many don't want to practice because it quickly becomes boring.

[mjp]

It does actually if you commit to a basic routine and put in the work. I agree though you are naturally disposed to being either a good shot for goal or not but you can make yourself more efficient over time with hard work (unless your Richo or N Riewoldt).

I've coached plenty of junior boys and girls into being better set shot kickers using a basic routine and practice, practice, practice.

Problem is many don't want to practice because it quickly becomes boring.

What's focussing on development and coaching to a plan got to do with making players have 20x shots for goal each week and publishing the results online?

[1eyedog]

What's focussing on development and coaching to a plan got to do with making players have 20x shots for goal each week and publishing the results online?

It's called putting what you've learnt into action. It's part of a 3-way package and critical to being better.

[mjp]

Improving your technique and routine does help though, and sometimes you need to peel things back and almost start again… I take things back to golf as it’s a sport that I had a passion for back when I had some more time and was able to improve my game over time through instruction, changing techniques and then perfecting it through practice. I went backwards before improving, but over time I improved to a point where I consistently knew where my ball was going to go and with what shape (straight, fade or draw).


OK - well, setting the golf example aside (a stationary target that you hit from the same spot every time is just nowhere next to the same as running in and kicking a footy even though every golfer - and every basket-baller who once upon a time sunk a free-throw thinks it is) no-one said anything about practising your routine. The suggestion was that the players all have 20-shots at goal each week and the results be published...

My point was although that sounds cool:

1/. It's not real. Simply practicing shots at goal outside of the fatigue and pressure of a game can do only SO much.
2/. If a player misses a heap - even though it's 'not real' - how do you think they would approach the game that weekend if the stadium collectively groans every time they go back to shoot for goal?

Everyone has confidence in their kicking until they miss...and when you miss, you worry. And worry = stress which causes you to go back to your worst habits. If I use your example with golf - but more specifically with PUTTING which is kind of relatable to goal kicking - the majority of golfers are 'streaky' and have good and bad days/tournaments/months...and their earnings ARE directly impacted.

For all of the soccer heads out there, penalties are routinely missed in big matches even though the ball is stationary and in the same bleeding spot every time...and the ball is ROUND.

Is our kicking for goal good enough? No. Is the fix simple? No. I don't get why we all think just doing 'more' is the best plan when we don't know what they are actually doing right now.

Is there a place for a dedicated kicking coach? Of course there is and it should be considered 100%...but I don't think we have one right now and if you think the line coaches are sitting around twiddling their thumbs all day I'm pretty sure they aren't.

[G-Mo77]

I do make the comparison to a basketball Free Throw as I find it similar. It's a routine, if you miss, you adjust and you'll likely make the 2nd. It's the same shot every time and it is still surprising that so many miss them. Football is a little different, ball is oval shape, weather elements and you're not kicking from the same spot but the routine should stay the same every time. Same run up, same drop, same drop onto the foot and power, it should never change.

[mjp]

In basketball you don't have to move your feet and co-ordinate between upper and lower...

[GVGjr]

1/. It's not real. Simply practicing shots at goal outside of the fatigue and pressure of a game can do only SO much.
2/. If a player misses a heap - even though it's 'not real' - how do you think they would approach the game that weekend if the stadium collectively groans every time they go back to shoot for goal?

Everyone has confidence in their kicking until they miss...and when you miss, you worry. And worry = stress which causes you to go back to your worst habits. If I use your example with golf - but more specifically with PUTTING which is kind of relatable to goal kicking - the majority of golfers are 'streaky' and have good and bad days/tournaments/months...and their earnings ARE directly impacted.

For all of the soccer heads out there, penalties are routinely missed in big matches even though the ball is stationary and in the same bleeding spot every time...and the ball is ROUND.

Is our kicking for goal good enough? No. Is the fix simple? No. I don't get why we all think just doing 'more' is the best plan when we don't know what they are actually doing right now.

Is there a place for a dedicated kicking coach? Of course there is and it should be considered 100%...but I don't think we have one right now and if you think the line coaches are sitting around twiddling their thumbs all day I'm pretty sure they aren't.

I'm a big believer that quality practice can make you better at most skills in a number of sports and over the summer months I got to see how hard players and the coaches work. I think I have a greater appreciation of the coaches and players because of it.
What I haven't seen much of is goal kicking practice and in particular quality or fully focused practice of that skill.
A lot of players faces light up and they bring an increased level of intensity when they get to practice dribble kicks for goal from what most average suburban league standard footballers would consider impossible angles and to the players credit they get some fantastic results.
What is a lot harder for fans who played at a vastly lower level is to accept is continued missed set shots or easy shots from our players when they have the added luxury of playing in the pristine conditions of a dome. It's a problem that has dragged on for years and soft cap limitations or not our coaches need to be strong enough and honest enough that they don't have the skills required to improve our list in that area as is evident.
I'm not sure I buy into a theory that some more practice might not necessarily help with the players confidence or their results but if the same players can't get over the yips then the more average players need to be moved on or their time as a forward needs to minimised.
While Mantis has referred to some golf scenario's and to your point it's a round stationary ball and it might not be relevant I look at some of the goal kicking exploits of Ruby Union players and they're consistently accurate. The ball isn't round, they rarely play in a dome and they have a similar level of fatigue thrown into the mix. They're not missing from 25 to 30 mtrs out.
Not a perfect comparison but somewhat similar.

We need to be prepared to bring in some outside expertise and see if improvement can be made because our current approach isn't working like we need it to.

[G-Mo77]

In basketball you don't have to move your feet and co-ordinate between upper and lower...

Regardless it is still a routine. How many players adjust their routine the closer they are to goal? Short run up, stab at the ball. It shouldn't change. The routine should be practiced over and over and it's pretty well known that we do not practice goal kicking much.

[GVGjr]

Regardless it is still a routine. How many players adjust their routine the closer they are to goal? Short run up, stab at the ball. It shouldn't change. The routine should be practiced over and over and it's pretty well known that we do not practice goal kicking much.

To me there are different ball drops for a player on the run or taking a set shot with someone on the mark and I don't think we've mastered that.
Akermanis was one player who had two very different kicking styles in those scenarios.

[mjp]

I'm a big believer that quality practice can make you better at most skills in a number of sports and over the summer months I got to see how hard players and the coaches work.

Me too! Totally agree that practicing helps.




I'm not sure I buy into a theory that some more practice might not necessarily help with the players confidence or their results but if the same players can't get over the yips then the more average players need to be moved on or their time as a forward needs to minimised.


I never said more practice wouldn't help. I said a public competition where each player had to have 20-shots on goal and the results would be published wouldn't work...



...I look at some of the goal kicking exploits of Ruby Union players and they're consistently accurate. The ball isn't round, they rarely play in a dome and they have a similar level of fatigue thrown into the mix. They're not missing from 25 to 30 mtrs out.
Not a perfect comparison but somewhat similar.


It's not similar at all. The ball is on a TEE! They don't have to co-ordinate upper and lower...

Kicking a footy is hard and a LOT can go wrong. The less moving parts, the less that can go wrong...and once things go wrong and individuals and coaches start messing with technique all trying to 'FIX' the problem, you end up with a Harry McKay situation.

Let me try and go back to base principles:

1/. I think practicing is good. :-)
2/. I think having a set routine - physical and mental - for set shots is good. :-)
3/. I think EVERY time you shoot for goal - training and game - it should look 'the same'. :-)

I'm not sure why we would be arguing about any of this.

BUT - everyone is different...and I guess I'm tired of the 'how hard can it be' synopsis...'cos it's pretty obviously very hard. Is just accepting misses OK? No - of course not. But a few weeks ago GWS couldn't hit the side of a barn and no one seemed to put our win down to the fact that they missed easy goals - likely the Geelong fans aren't too bothered with our goal-kicking woes from the weekend and the vast majority would have barely noticed. Their team kicked them so who cares, right?

Do we need to practice and get better? Of course. Is seeking out a specialist a good plan? Maybe.

There are no easy fixes here though and to suggest there are is simplistic at best.

[mjp]

Regardless it is still a routine. How many players adjust their routine the closer they are to goal? Short run up, stab at the ball. It shouldn't change. The routine should be practiced over and over and it's pretty well known that we do not practice goal kicking much.

Do players shoot with different technique from the free throw line to when they are having a shot from outside of the arc?

Of course they do.

So why would you say it shouldn't change for football players?

Every shot from 40m should look 'the same'. But not necessarily like every shot from 20m. Or every shot from 50m.

[Sedat]

There are no easy fixes here though and to suggest there are is simplistic at best.
Is there an easier fix by identifying where the shots are taken as opposed to how many are being missed, and rectifying the connection between the mids/forwards so that we are getting cleaner entries and better looks (and theoretically better conversion would follow)?

Sydney and Geelong seem to have better/higher conversion rates because they prioritise ball retention/better looks inside F50. Is our game plan of dirty ball/kick it to the hotspot into F50 preventing us from having better looks and therefore always being on the wrong end of the conversion ledger? Our goalkicking accuracy is not a problem limited to the past fortnight.

[GVGjr]

It's not similar at all. The ball is on a TEE! They don't have to co-ordinate upper and lower...



I get that but if the tee is making it easier does thins mean the ball drop is the challenge for players?
It certainly looks like a timing issue for Naughton and the ball drop from McNeil on Saturday night wasn't great.




Kicking a footy is hard and a LOT can go wrong. The less moving parts, the less that can go wrong...and once things go wrong and individuals and coaches start messing with technique all trying to 'FIX' the problem, you end up with a Harry McKay situation.

Let me try and go back to base principles:

1/. I think practicing is good. :-)
2/. I think having a set routine - physical and mental - for set shots is good. :-)
3/. I think EVERY time you shoot for goal - training and game - it should look 'the same'. :-)

I'm not sure why we would be arguing about any of this.

BUT - everyone is different...and I guess I'm tired of the 'how hard can it be' synopsis...'cos it's pretty obviously very hard. Is just accepting misses OK? No - of course not. But a few weeks ago GWS couldn't hit the side of a barn and no one seemed to put our win down to the fact that they missed easy goals - likely the Geelong fans aren't too bothered with our goal-kicking woes from the weekend and the vast majority would have barely noticed. Their team kicked them so who cares, right?

Do we need to practice and get better? Of course. Is seeking out a specialist a good plan? Maybe.

There are no easy fixes here though and to suggest there are is simplistic at best.

Nothing is simplistic but we've been writing off our goal kicking accuracy challenges for too long without bringing in some outside help.
I'd be happy enough if the club at least tried something else or brought in someone to work with a few players.

[mjp]

I get that but if the tee is making it easier does thins mean the ball drop is the challenge for players?
It certainly looks like a timing issue for Naughton and the ball drop from McNeil on Saturday night wasn't great.

Nothing is simplistic but we've been writing off our goal kicking accuracy challenges for too long without bringing in some outside help.
I'd be happy enough if the club at least tried something else or brought in someone to work with a few players.

Yes - the tee makes it way easier. And yes, it's the ball drop that is the wild card or more specifically, the co-ordination between the ball drop and the leg swing...one small change either way can lead to big (and inconsistent) changes in outcome...so it needs to be managed.

Do we need to do a better job of managing it? I'm happy with that but saying 'Get Sav Rocca' doesn't mean that's a solution...

[Grantysghost]

Aker used to kick them high when inside 30.

Get your foot right through it.

Two handed ball guidance looks naff and you can't kick it as far however it's good for close shots.

[G-Mo77]

Do players shoot with different technique from the free throw line to when they are having a shot from outside of the arc?

Of course they do.

So why would you say it shouldn't change for football players?

Every shot from 40m should look 'the same'. But not necessarily like every shot from 20m. Or every shot from 50m.

That's an in game jump shot what you're describing and the only comparison to football would be a shot in play and not after a mark or free kick. The comparable thing between a FT and a set shot at goal is they have time to set up and go through a routine. If you can kick comfortably from 40m and consistently straight, why change that when kicking from 30M or 20M? It doesn't matter if you kick it out of the stadium it's still a goal through the big sticks. So many players change their routine on distance when they should do exactly the same thing over and over. If you kick them straight booting the absolute shit out of it, boot the absolute shit out of it closer to goal.

[mjp]

That's an in game jump shot what you're describing and the only comparison to football would be a shot in play and not after a mark or free kick.

Not exactly what I'm describing. Think more a feet set corner 3 than a true 'in game' jump shot...but the point you make is why it's so bloody difficult to kick goals in AFL footy. There are simple one million ways in which they get kicked and modifications of style, ball drop, leg swing and even the 'TYPE' and 'SHAPE' of the kick vary so damn much.

I think every goal-kicking analysis ever done will say that the best way to kick a higher % of goals is to kick them from closer in - so I'm not really sure exactly how many player have a 'REAL' conversion percentage that is worse from 25m than it is from 40m but I suspect that number would be statistically irrelevant...unless of course it's every forward in our current side in which case it would STILL be statistically irrelevant but it would ALSO be deeply concerning.

[Bulldog4life]

Yes - the tee makes it way easier. And yes, it's the ball drop that is the wild card or more specifically, the co-ordination between the ball drop and the leg swing...one small change either way can lead to big (and inconsistent) changes in outcome...so it needs to be managed.

Do we need to do a better job of managing it? I'm happy with that but saying 'Get Sav Rocca' doesn't mean that's a solution...

Two of the most consistent and effective ball drops I have seen in the last 60 years were Lockett and Peter Hudson. Both were hunched over and the ball drop onto their foot was short. Both accurate kicks for goal too.

[Mantis]

Given 4 players have been omitted, or approx. 20% of the team it’s fair to say the MC haven’t remained calm.

[GVGjr]

Given 5 players have been omitted, or approx. 25% of the team it’s fair to say the MC haven’t remained calm.

Yep, just one forced change who is a back man and two others from the back line dropped. No surprise with McNeil and Baker probably a bit unlucky.

[Jeanette54]

Two of the most consistent and effective ball drops I have seen in the last 60 years were Lockett and Peter Hudson. Both were hunched over and the ball drop onto their foot was short. Both accurate kicks for goal too.

If you look at old film of EJ you will find that he also reduced the distance the ball had to drop onto his foot.

[josie]

Two of the most consistent and effective ball drops I have seen in the last 60 years were Lockett and Peter Hudson. Both were hunched over and the ball drop onto their foot was short. Both accurate kicks for goal too.

Good observation. Our Tory hunched over a bit if I recall correctly and shorter ball drop. Another one that comes to mind is Aker who was an excellent kick for goal.

[MrMahatma]

Cool.

And what happens if they miss 17 of them? Going in feeling SUPER confident, right.

Just having shots at goal doesn't make you a better kick for goal...

Cool.

I guess the thought bubble was more about:

a) Practice is good
b) Adding a degree of pressure to it to try and recreate the match day pressure

What do you suggest?

[1eyedog]

Two of the most consistent and effective ball drops I have seen in the last 60 years were Lockett and Peter Hudson. Both were hunched over and the ball drop onto their foot was short. Both accurate kicks for goal too.

Beasley.

[1eyedog]

Cool.

And what happens if they miss 17 of them? Going in feeling SUPER confident, right.

Just having shots at goal doesn't make you a better kick for goal...

Ah this is what confused me. I thought the assumption would be that every player would/ should have a routine and has worked hard on it re. shots on goal. Then practicing that to make you better. 20/ 50 / 100 times whatever.

I remember watching the boys having set shots with headphones playing crowd noises in them back in the day. I assume we've tried all kinds of things.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

There's a lot of cotton wool for players these days. Don't practice goal kicking too much, because if you do, it'll get in your head and you'll miss ....

... Alternatively, just keep missing and do little practice.

I wish I was afforded that same leniency in my job.

[G-Mo77]

There's a lot of cotton wool for players these days. Don't practice goal kicking too much, because if you do, it'll get in your head and you'll miss ....

... Alternatively, just keep missing and do little practice.

I wish I was afforded that same leniency in my job.

Bevo was quoted saying it was more to do with the sports scientists worried about injuries which is why it is not practiced as much. If it's the cotton wool and hugging effect like you mentioned then toughen the hell up. You're a pro, practice and be one.

[josie]

Bevo was quoted saying it was more to do with the sports scientists worried about injuries which is why it is not practiced as much. If it's the cotton wool and hugging effect like you mentioned then toughen the hell up. You're a pro, practice and be one.

What Bevo said sounds like nonsense to me. Not sure if they practice more then I’ve seen in pre-season training but in my opinion it wasn’t enough and it was only some of the players.

[1eyedog]

Effort was there again we ok with another 4 goal loss considering we were crucified?

[whythelongface]

You could probably rinse and repeat this thread 4 or 5 times throughout the year.

I can accept last nights loss as I thought we played well just with Port a better unit at the moment. We hung in there but we are a couple of key players short of matching it with the top teams.

[angelopetraglia]

You could probably rinse and repeat this thread 4 or 5 times throughout the year.

I can accept last nights loss as I thought we played well just with Port a better unit at the moment. We hung in there but we are a couple of key players short of matching it with the top teams.

I was far less upset last night, compared to the previous couple of games. We had our moments that we didn't seize which was familiar to the previous two weeks. I thought we were the better team beating ourselves against the Suns and Port, but thought Port was the better team last night.